Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

Good. All right, folks. We get started our meeting. Uh, stand for the pledge of allegiance to our flag. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Seated. Angelina, would you do a roll call? Present here. Present. Present. Here.

We'd like to uh take a vote on adopting the minutes of our last meeting in July. Uh I'm going to sorry I'm going to abstain uh this EV dandies because I was not present. I would put a motion on the floor to approve the meeting of August 6. I'll second. All in favor? I I [Music]

Right. So, our first uh line of business tonight is PLZBA 2025 0047 1673rd Street closing a to install a 6oot cedar fence along the courtyard where only a 4ft height fence is permitted relief of two foot. You check please come up. Don't you see why it says [Music] our new zone? Yeah, I brought my own.

It's four on third and it's five or five on division. There are two different fence height zoning rules. State your name for us. My name is Beth Hyde. hyd. [Music]

So this is a request to install a tongue and groove cedar fence along third and division to uh create privacy and security for the courtyard at Congregation Barth Shalom. Uh, as you probably know, Congregation Birth Shalom is the oldest synagogue in New York State. It's 160 years old. It sits on the corner of Third and Division. The neighborhood is not as what it was. It has a large open grassy courtyard that marks the corner of third and division and currently is secured by a 5-ft chainlink fence which does provide a fence but does not provide security or privacy. And in addition, that fence has a gate which cannot really uh qualify as an emergency exit gate. And there are two doors in the synagogue that would be used as exits because if somebody was evacuating. So they'd evacuate into the courtyard and then they'd be stuck. So this looks to put a sixyard six foot tongue and groove cedar fence along third and division and requires a zoning variance because regardless of whether it's three or four feet on third and five or six feet on division, the current zoning would not allow us to have a six foot fence. What questions or concerns do you have?

I have a question. Do you have a picture of the fence? I do. Um, so so I'm a little bit right. She'll be right back. I mean, I have it on here. Okay. She'll she'll bring it up when she comes. Okay. So, it's And will there be exit gates? Yes, there will be a handicapped exit only gate. So, it'll be a push out gate, but you won't be able to uh come in from the street, but it is it'll meet the my concerns about it. This needs to be out uh and and secure on the outside, but out on the inside. Yeah, I have no questions.

I have no questions either. Wait for council to Yeah, we've been to historic district and we've been to fence and and but we understand that the the way it currently reads, it does require your variance. Um, Steve, thank you. Oh, thank you. I should have printed it. Oh, is this our before and after? Before and Oh, that's You probably have the courtyard, right? We got the chain link. Um, I do. All right. I'm going to show you the fence here. Let me get it here. Here it is. Yeah. just over here.

Oh, that's this one, right? So, so it's this one at the top. Yeah, it's this one here. So, it's a um it's it's not it's historically correct. Oh, yeah. But it wouldn't be that one with the No, it'll be this one without any fanciness. I like the the circle. I look at the color of the wood. It's beautiful. I think it's it's a lovely piece. I think it's a good solution. Yeah. A challenging problem. [Music]

So, right. Then you got the uh third going south, right?

That's right. So, as you come down Third Street, you're going to be on the right to get that fence. On the left, you have another fence. Here you have a parking lot. And there you have a business. So it's mixed residential, commercial. So there is a provision that 28542D that says no fence shall be erected on a corner lot uh more than 3 feet in height without considering the sightelines and visibility. I think it might even mention traffic safety there. Um, so

pardon if you can put it up. Yeah. Do you do you have a picture of the intersection? Is that what you're going to go? I can do that. Yeah, I have a picture of the intersection. So, we

I'm sad to say that we were recently assessed for our risk of terrorism at Congregation Birth Shalom. It's a 60-page report that would keep you up at night. And their largest concern is that somebody's going to fly through my fence and into the building. You could worry about anything in the world, but that's their biggest concern. I I understand a cedar fence is not going to allay the fears of those who think a car is going to drive into my synagogue, but we are in a very difficult time in the world, and anything we can do to improve the safety of our community as we're in that building is important to us. Has that uh has There you go. That's one way going that way.

So, this is one way up and one way this way. There's your courtyard. Okay. So, so if you you consider the sidelines, it should it should not interfere I agree with traffic. Okay. I've gone through that intersection numerous times. If you make a right and you go north on third, it's not going to interfere with your I'm sorry, south on third. It's not going to interfere with your vision. And if you go straight down to Vision Street, it doesn't interfere. It's not going to interfere. I don't see it as an issue.

No, I I'm only raising it because the code requires that you consider it. That's has have the local uh fire and police entities been uh advised of that report and uh we have a whole there's a whole other security initiative in process to address these So if there was any issue that we needed to uh consider for you know sight lines or anything they would have raised it. No they would not. You're you're supposed to consider but they they they wouldn't they wouldn't provide any sort of advisory opinion.

Okay. One motion. Okay. Yes. I'd like have a motion. It's acceptable. I would place a motion on the floor regarding PLZBA 20250047 to approve the installation of a six-foot cedar fence along that courtyard. Thank you. I second. Does have to vote. Sorry. Uh I vote to approve. I vote to approve. It's a roll call vote. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. Okay. I I vote to approve.

Um Steve, you got to say why it's okay. I would amend my emotion and include the rationale that it does not seem to interfere with any line of vision for driving or an impediment to traffic hazards

that sufficient or change the nature of or change the character of the neighborhood. neighbor. Okay. It won't be a detriment to the character of things is what you want to say. Uh again, uh uh based on uh if if that amended motion was seconded, I'll second that amended motion. Uh I vote to approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Um I have a question with regards to seeker. Uh, shall I make a uh seeker motion for the type two? The type two.

I I So, yeah, go ahead. It's fine. I mean, just to It's fine. It's fine. State the obvious for the record. Okay. Um, Mr. Chairperson, in with regards to PLCBA 2025-000047 as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this proposal to be a secret type two action with sufficient information available upon which to state that no determination is necessary or required. I'll second. Approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Approved. Oh, environmental thing

for an environmental thing. You're set. You're good to go. No, she did. Okay, good. You're good. You're good. Congratulations. Go get 50. Thank you very much. [Music] All right. Your next um business is PLZVA 202500448 [Music] 2119 Bernett Avenue. Please come forward, state your name, [Music]

Suzanne Collins, and I'm hoping to get a variance on the property at 2119. He was just giving her paperwork.

Okay. So, the property's been on the market for almost two years. Um, it's been a dental office for decades and in 2023 I was told that residential areas can no longer have dental or medical offices. So, um, this property could easily return to residential. Um, it was originally a bungalow before it was a dental office. Um my husband's partner added a huge addition on the back. Um and it has adequate room uh to be converted into you know any number of things but um I you know am hoping to get a variance to allow prospective buyers to do you know either uh rental or uh small business. But at current time, you know, it's it's just um com it's a multi-use commercial. I I believe is the

the current zone. Yeah. Okay. It is zone single family. Okay. Non-conforming use in a single family zone. Okay. So, um that's my hope. I have a question. So, has the commercial, even though it's zoned single family, has this has the status of it looking commercial uh selling it on our years? Like I think why hasn't it sold?

That's a good question. I think because um medical and dental offices are not going in standalone buildings anymore. Um it could be for other small businesses. Um but at the current time there's no interest and um in the current economy maybe that has something to do with it. I'm not really sure. Real estate is not my specialty. Um this was my husband's office and the property next door. And um you know I've just been the caretaker for almost five years now. Just just to be clear for the record here too, um you would any prospective buyer would need a variance to have any other commercial enterprise there. It could only be a dental office um without an additional varian.

Oh, okay. So, could you expand on what you proposed to do other than I mean it's currently according to you, right? It got changed the zoning. When did the zoning get changed? No, I think I think the the zoning got changed in 23. But was it it was not grandfa it's grand it's grandfathered then it's grandfathered so it's currently allowed dental office so okay so it's a non-conforming use okay but what what is it that the applicant is seeking then there expand on what you want to do

okay there is a prospective buyer who would like to convert it to student rental and he would be owner occupying 2117 7 right next door. Um, so that is what I'm hoping uh would be allowed for 2119. There is off- streetet parking adequate for multiple cars. Um, it's handicap accessible. Um, so I think it could be a very um attractive student rental in the neighborhood which is surrounded by student rentals and any number of homes long berdette are rentals at this time

and 2117 is a single family house. It's a single family house they're being sold. It's a part Yes, it's one parcel. Would they need a variance for both properties? Currently both they have separate lots separate parcels. Okay.

I you know this my husband's partner bought 2117 to make the parking and I was al always under the impression it was one parcel. It was always a student rental as a home um to three or four students who came as a group um and they've been wonderful tenants because they're serious, they study hard, they're quiet, they like the quiet neighborhood, the proximity to campus um and it's always worked out well. So the change would be 2117 would become a private residence owner occupied monitoring student rental into 1119 which would be converted.

Is the parking for 2119 on 2117? actually um it's a single driveway between the two and um part of 2119 is asphalt and a good part of 2117 is asphalt. I think there's about 16 parking 16 spots. Yeah. Yeah. Linda, come to the come to the counter. Say your name.

Linda Luciano. the realtor for Suzanne and it's been on the market for 615 plus days and we've had some interest but people couldn't really figure out what they were going to do with the dental practice because it's specific right now with all the dental equipment and all of that there based on her husband and partner. So, um Jordan has well contacted me about the property uh and we went to see it and he has some great ideas to he is an architect as far as what he would like to do with it. He wants to live in the single family at 2117 make it his home and then the one on the left.

Yes, the one on the left and then he would convert he has a conceptual plan floor plan. I it just came in. Okay. Thank you. So, you're going to be the living. Yeah.

Yeah. Her and I can share one. Here's here's the other one. So, six. Oh, it's just it's just one floor anyway. [Music] That's okay. It's kind of a dormatory in a moment.

Oh, I think Have you been to a planning board yet? No. Right. I know they have to come here for the youth.

That's the beautiful thing about this property. There's so many room for the kitchen and the lounge. So the basement has two entrance separate from here. Correct. Yes. Okay. Whoever designed this originally was building. Is it like 70s? Is that a 6070? What? Wait, what year was it built? Yeah, it looks like Sir, can you can you speak into the microphone so you're on the record? Sorry. I apologize. All right, I'll I'll start from I'll start from the beginning. Start state say your name.

Okay, great.

State your name. So, my name is Jordan White. Um, I'm a designer and I work with uh architecture um in architecture. I work in commercial real estate as well. Uh I'm also on a board of TAP architecture here in Troy. Um they're they just made me vice president, which is great. But uh so I came across this property from my experience dealing with commercial real estate and um me and my girlfriend we we've are on a hunt for opportunities that uh could be a value ad where we can live in one unit and make the other income producing or at least break even hopefully income producing much more. Um, so any the idea the idea um came up about this property and I reached out to uh Linda and when I did the tour I was just blown away by like the how modern like the the layout is especially of uh 2119. So this is a two parcel. I know you said it's individual but single family here, commercial here. And if you go back through this driveway, it opens up to a 16 car uh parking lot, which is huge. Um, this building here, it looks tiny at the front, but it's elongated toward the back.

So, it's last used to or current use, excuse me, as a dental office and they're moving out shortly,

end of this month. So, they're taking all of their equipment, which is like a it's going to be a vacant commercial property on Birded Avenue. Um, and I don't want I hate to see uh vacant property, especially commercial, because it just sits if no one knows what to do with it. And there there aren't too many people to have the vision to or or willpower rather to convert it to another use because you have to if if you're not going to live here, it doesn't make sense. Like an investor just an investor wouldn't buy this, at least for my opinion, just to convert it. Like it it the numbers won't wouldn't work. But if someone is going to occupy this single family home and then be kind of like the eyes to to monitor, you know, a close similar to like a two family where you can rent downstairs or upstairs and live in one unit. You can keep a close eye on your property.

Are you going to you're not going to rent any of the property at the house on 11th at 217? No, that that's just going to be your that would be owner occupied. It's single family. Um there's like three bedrooms in there. Um just that's where you're you're going to correct. Yes. Yes.

So, um, feel free to jump in if you have any questions, but I'll just go through the layout, the proposed layout. Uh, right now it's, um, I believe seven rooms that are kind of set up like dental uh, offices or exam. Yeah. So, it wouldn't take it's not a far-fetched to convert those from to bedrooms. Now, where the excitement comes in is doing a shared kitchen and shared bathrooms. So, right right now, the property has a full kitchen downstairs in the basement and has like a kitchenet uh style upstairs. And it it has three bathrooms, I believe. Two full bath,

one full, one full, two and two halves. But with the renovation phase, we, you know, make them proper bathrooms or so. Um, and the cool thing about this property is the amount of egresses that it has. So, every room has windows where you can like a full person can like fit out like their vertical vertical style. Very modern. Um, and then the first floor has three entrance exit points. Um, and then the basement has two. So, one one in the rear and one in the side. So, I'll pause for questions.

Well, I'll chime in. I mean, you got two properties. You got a shared driveway, which it makes sense that they're going to be married together. owner and he's going to own both properties. He's going to use the the back parking area for the people. I have to agree that commercial space is hard to sell right now because a whole new world postco and you're not changing anything externally, right? There's not going to be you're not moving and changing. No. Uh just changing nothing on external. No, correct. Correct. Just internal.

I think it's a I think it's a global idea. I have some questions if I could. Of course. You said this has been on the market for over 600 days. [Music] I have an initial observation. Why is there no for sale sign on the property? That was my decision. I've gone by that numerous times and when this came up as an agenda item, I went back to see where's the for sale sign.

It's not there. So, how can we on one hand say we haven't been able to sell it in over 600 days, but yet there's no for sale sign announcing to the public that the property is in fact for sale. It's almost like a self-created hardship. Well, it has been on MLS and because um the person who bought the practice for my husband is new to the area, I knew that a for sale sign would affect her business adversely and I didn't want to impose that on her. Um, and because it is a commercial property, not residential, I thought MLS would be anyone going looking for commercial. And Linda, you might

Yes. And that's that's exactly true. As a realtor, you know, we're covering all sites. You know, the MLS, which is a direct link to anyone who's serious about buying a property of any sort. Along with that, it's on Zillow, it's on realtor.com, it's on all the links. So I had probably um I think a total of three people come through and the consistently the problem was what do we do with this property? What do we do with this dental practice? It's you know it's too much to convert it. We don't have the time or the energy or the money. Um what do we do with the single family? Do we just rent that out? So it was it was a catch 22. They couldn't. It was a good price and it's got a great great curb appeal and great parking for somebody who could actually use it as Jordan wants to use it. So I I couldn't get anybody to bite. They just couldn't figure it out how to make it work.

Second question is, are both of these properties on the market as a package deal as in I buy both or I can buy one? as a package. So, if I came to you and said, "I'd like to buy 2117, the residential house on the left in the picture, and I'll write you a check for it tonight." No mortgage. You wouldn't sell it.

Well, you also run into You also run into the issue of the driveway. There's no yard in the back 2117 and in the driveway. Correct. It's a it's a sheer driveway. So that who owns the driveway by date? That I wouldn't know. Um but also to answer your question, this has been a big burden to me and selling half of it is really not ideal. I'll try.

So, so Steve, I I think the lots are not merged. I think they were acquired by uh her business partner, John Keegan. John John Keegan. And he acquired both lots, but he never merged them, but he he used them as if they were merged and says, "I'll bet that driveway spans both property lines or is on both sides of the property line." I would think it would. He always told my husband it was on one deed and but it's not. We didn't know that was it. It may be on one deed. We do have a deed here with two parcels on it, but I don't know that.

Well, I I really don't know the status completely, but uh whether or not they're two separate taxable lots might be an issue. That you you make a valid point and and I I had the same idea. You know, why not just get rid of one or the other? You know, sell one and then leave the other. Uh, but I think it's easier to buy both. If you try to narrow down one, you have to get it surveyed and property lines redone uh or confirmed. Well, if you're buying any property, you're going to have it surveyed. That's a good point. Yeah, bank is going to insist on,

right? But it I just think it's easy in this scenario. I think it's easier for it to be sewed as one. And that's maybe Linda, you can speak to that. That's why it's it's been Yeah. because of the driveway. That was one of the issues. And because it's always been considered one whole parcel together and the back and there's no backyard because there's a parking lot. Um that was the most and my broker agrees that that's the most practical way to do it. So I I do have the deed here. Okay, they are both parcels are on one D. Okay. I don't I don't know what the tax map shows, but Okay.

So, they I guess it is one. So, that's it could be subdivided, but I it might have to be. I mean, if you'd have to get two deeds out of this. Sure. But what we're looking for is to keep it whole, to keep it the way it is because Jordan wants to live there, make it his home, rent out, do some doing the renovations in the two 219 2119. And of course, owner occupied on site. What better scenario? I used to be a landlord, so I get it. So, you know, and um you're not going to change the facade. It's all going to look the same. If anything else, it'll be improved somewhat. You know, he'll be there to do it.

Do that. with the 2119 property, but they are definitely two parcels create six bedrooms, seven bedrooms, whatever. And you rent them, which you're really making it a commercial use in a single family area zone. Well, multif family or no, it's a single family zone. That's a scenario. I know the case but according to the 03 zoning law single family I'm thinking whiping court and somebody

well I think it's better that one person signing it and he's got control I mean it's on one is there is there a a uh did you say there was a current dentist operating there she is moving out she'll be out by September 30th What is she? Where is she? She's going to the federal building, a professional building. But where is she's at 2119 now? Yes. And 2117 is vacant. It's vacant. She's not using it. Oh, no. No. I was renting to students. John Keegan rented to RPI students. It's always been a student rental since John Keegan purchased.

Was Was she interested in the other property? No. Or staying there? Uh, no. She was not interested in purchasing. Yeah. She led my husband to believe she would be purchasing. She changed her mind and it's been a long effort to get her to move because selling it with her in it was not going to happen. So, she didn't want to move. Uh, no, she didn't want to stay. She I'm But originally she didn't want to write it. She didn't want to purchase. No, she didn't. And but she wanted to stay.

Well, she was dragging it out. Yeah, she was dragging out.

Because you won't lease it to her anymore. Oh, well, no. She would have she would have leased it to her, but it no buyers were interested in in the property, the property that she with her being in there into a lease. Understood. Understood. So, there was kind of a hardship there. Yes. And so, well, I don't know. I'm just curious, Jordan. If you do do this, I just got a question for you. Is there going to be is there a sprinkler system in there now or is it not not currently? Um there is uh fire safety uh included but there there's not a dedicated uh sprinkler system um

that would come up in in in the peritting process and even after this they would have to go uh for site plan review by the planning board. So they will that that's not our problem. It's not our property. What is the square footage of each bedroom? Uh so right now they're they're um I say it it's it's it's hard every bedroom bedroom is not the same but I'd say it varies from like 500 to 700 square feet. Okay. So maximum number of bedrooms you anticipate can

can you restate that for the record? What are what are the bedroom sizes? I believe it's right now it's uh varies between 500 and 700 square ft. And that would amount to how many rooms bedrooms uh right now we're at about uh six probably no more than seven. You know what does code require for minimum square footage of 300 or something? I think it's a small. No. So the average should be 700 square ft. Uh that's for units. It's like about 60 I think. Isn't it 60? I think he's talking bedroom. That that is for that. But that is for units though. Yeah.

This is this is a little bit different. This is shared housing. Yeah. Okay. We don't haveification for another another thing that I just wanted to point out is uh I know I know a lot of uh landlords in that area they do do like sh like the shared rental situation and I know it's not technically legal um I don't think it's enforced but define shared rental situation

meaning they rent rooms and to individuals and they can pay um so they're collecting a payment from individuals or it could be more disguised and as one person on a lease but in reality everybody is paying. So with this coming coming to you today, we wanted to do it officially like uh properly and you know and get approval um before going forward with this project. Um another thing is uh we've we've did some test runs to to gauge interest in this project to see like who would be interested in staying here. And we've had a good amount of students, young professionals, grad students that are interested. Um, obviously it's it's not a thing yet. So, we have to tell them that, but um we've we've gauged the interests um in this project and it's it's positive. [Music] And the other thing is um house a housing shortage. So I think this is a great solution to uh providing housing to people in need.

Um especi especially you're not going to be renting student housing, right? Correct. I mean we we say students because it's so close to RBI. Well, u right. It could be young professional, you know. Yeah. Grad students, you know, we're not we don't want to turn this into like a party place whereas like, you know, parties on the weekend and stuff like that. We want to be respectful of the area. we understand the area um how quiet it is over there and um so we you know I think that's the whole reason behind like being on site uh with the owner occupied

uh single family my concern would really be that see right now it's owner occupied it's right now it's owner occupied but two years from now you want to move to Gilderland or Lancingberg or wherever Then it's you want to rent that house out. That's so you're making the variance for both of them, right? To be rental properties essentially. So he could rent the prop his own home and if he moves to students again. So then it would then then it wouldn't be they're on one deed.

They're on one deed. So you wouldn't have So there's nothing stopping him from turning the second property where he wants to live into rental property and then it wouldn't be owner occupied. That would be my concern. And I don't know if there's anything you could do to say like requiring owner occupy. I mean, that's I don't think would hold up anywhere. But that's that would be my concern is you're going to you're going to want to move next door to me, right? Because I'm a great neighbor. Of course. I I mean I I am moving next door to you. The house is coming up for sale. So I'm just gonna

No, that's a great point. Let me address that. Uh so the the owner occupied really is only for uh a management from a manage a close proximity management style to the rental. So you're correct saying if we decide to move to two two years from now we could rent the single family. That's true. But it's a single family. like it, you know, it it can only be it wouldn't be like a room a room rental situation. It would only be a single family home in that. So, I I think there's a lot of people that rent single family homes to college students. Um, that's what I was doing. Yeah.

And my husband and his partner. But your your husband was and your husband's partner were next door most of the day working. So, I live not even five minutes away on 23rd Street, right?

And yeah, no, I'm not at the office every day like my husband was, but I can my tenants can vouch that I was a very hands-on landlord and they would call me or text me and I would be right on it. And uh, you know, I dealt with a lot in the last four and a half years. So, you know, I don't think the proximity and renting it to a group of friends, you know, it wasn't a boarding house. It was three or four students had to come as a group to indicate they were interested in this property. And uh we never ever had a problem with them. They appreciated the quiet neighborhood, the comfort, um the uh quietness for studying or whatever because dorm life is not for everybody.

Now, but now you're not having three or four students, you're having eight or seven or eight students, right? Well, I'm also referring to 2117 because you were concerned about that reverting back to a rental. Yeah. So, so you now have eight students and then potentially in five years or two years or 10 years another three end renting that same house again. So now your seven is 10 student. I think you said no more than seven bedroom. Oh, but I'm saying but on the other house if he moves out, rents it, decides to rent it and not try to sell it as a whole. Wait a minute. I mean the nonetheless the variance is still only on that one property. The variance isn't on both. Even though I understand that you're saying that the two properties are on one deed, the variance is only for that one building. I don't know.

Correct. I Is that correct? I don't I don't know. That's true. That is correct. Okay. So, the variance but the variance I guess really you're seeking to change from what is it now? It is dental office. Pardon? It's a dental office. Yeah. Right. It's a dental office which is permitted by grandfathering. Right. But the area itself is zone single family a single family and you want to put what I think amounts to a dormatory uh in in in that dental office which is

by itself not a permitted use in a single family zone. It would have to be so but that's part of the reason for getting a variance. I'm just not sure it's been advertised correctly. But it's only on half you're only putting the variance on half the property. No, that the property. So, the property is two separate parcels of land. Yeah. With two separate addresses and uh we'll just discovered it's two separate um uh tax map lots. But you said they're on one D,

but they are on one D and they're separately described on each on the D. So one is described and the and the street address is referenced and then the other one is described. I can ask a question. So if they want to sell the house or sell just the half which half 217 2117 yes they can sell it alone or they have to sell them together. They can sell it separately even though it's on one deed. Yes. You would you would just you would write a new deed with the description for 2117. Okay. Into the new deed. That that's my concern. That's

But the I think the applicant said that she wasn't didn't never wanted to do that. She needed to get rid of them both at the same time. So, let me ask you this, Rick. I mean, it looks like a dormatory, but it's not on a campus. So, does it then instead become a multif family or a I mean, there's nothing to say that in a two family house you can't have. We're going to look at the definition of dormatory because he's not asking for the word dormatory. I understand, but I No, I understand.

If it if it quacks like a duck, maybe it is a duck. I don't know. See if we have a definition of it. have a shared it's gonna have shared bathroom shared kitchen. Yes. So would the variance run with a land? Yes. The use variance will run with a land but only at 2119. Correct. Could you could you limit it to student housing? Yes. That in the zoning a dormatory as opposed to a rooming house is is defined as just student housing. A building utilized as a residence.

A building utilized as a residence exclusively for students of a college, university, or school. Is that what the is that what the applicant desires? That's right. Um, yes. Actually, should we also look at house as well?

I don't know if we have that, but okay. Yeah. [Music] [Music] Are you guys getting busy? bathroom incident or services or facilities.

It's really a rooming house. So it could be a rooming house or dormator. I can go back to the table. Can you show us the table for rooming house? Yeah, it's a house. I think you can either you could say you could put in that it has to be student at the college.

Part of the bar is it has to be used for students. Rooming house on the table.

Then we'll be back here. Rooming house. So it has more it's permitted in multif family [Music] C1. Yeah, sure. But it's not permitted single family. No, it's not violates the single family zone that it does. So So here's the thing. It does violate that, but it is not a single family house. So, it has to be something. You know what I mean? It It's not like it's a house he's transforming into something else. He's taking a commercial space.

No, he's he's not converting a single family house to a seven seven bedroom. So, I mean, it's already wonky. So, he's just trying to make use of it. Even though it's single family residential, it is not. At one time I think it was way back. Okay. Well, but it's not now. So, I mean, the point is you want to get rid of it. He wants to buy it. He's got some good ideas. It's got to become something other than a single family. My My concern is,

and I'll I'll state it again. I'm okay with the student housing or the dormatory. Just don't want to see it turned into a boarding house or lowinccome because that that doesn't fit the character of that neighborhood. But a dormatory or a student housing does fit the neighborhood the the characteristics but I don't know can you legally put that as a contingency in here and the answer is no you absolutely can insist that it be used as only as a dormatory for students student housing that would be wonderful.

Is there anybody else either virtually or out there that would like to speak [Music] any anybody virtually. She was on the Here we are. It may have to be readvertised though. Okay. got to think about it was advertised as residential not specifically not specifically uh shared housing like a dormatory. Are you saying tableabling this?

It might have to be re yeah renoticed. That was data that is Oh, so they have to reapply. No, just reward it. We would just reward word the the application public notice would have to go out in a motion. Is that are we rewarding it in a motion? I don't understand the the I think it was taken as an application for multiple units. Multiple units. But these are not multiple units. These are separate. These are just separate bedrooms. Correct.

Right. Um, so I think to be fair to the public, if anyone wants to, you know, chime in on this or something like that, it should be renoticed as an application for a dormatory to change the current use, which is which is actually a commercial dentistry which is allowed by grandfather in a single family zone to a dormatory in a single family zone which is also right next to the zone where a dormatory would be permitted. If if if then it would be on the agenda for next month. That's what Rick is. Yeah.

And if that's the case, that would be after the uh current dental tenant practice, she moves out. Would it be also kind of uh you know putting uh all the ducks in a row if you will putting a a sign outside just to put everyone on notice? So So to that in real estate you don't have to put a sign up front if that's a that's a personal thing when you list a house you you have a conversation with your seller as and you say would you like to sign forget what this particular house is. There's lots of people who don't want signs up for whatever

understood. But if the if the concern of not put of of not putting a sign up as to you know impair the practice and it would just uh you know make double and triple sure that uh this is really the only option for the record. Uh it it just might be something to consider. Well, are are you under contract contingent on this whole thing coming together? Yes. So, there already is a contract in place contingent on So, I just wanted to to touch base on that. So, um I I found a house just by online doing searches.

Uh I didn't drive by and see a sign, but uh once I found it online, I then drove by and said, "Oh, this is pretty cool." And then I contacted the broker. Um the other thing which is interesting is the taxes are very high on this property. Describe. Hi. Welcome to Welcome to I know. I understand that. But I say that because they're they're with with everything included, they're touching 20K per year. Correct. 10 for each basically. Yeah. Right. So wait a minute. Back up the bus. Yeah. You're going too fast for me to process this.

Sure. $20,000 a year. Correct. For 2119 alone? No, for both. That's not bad. It's it's it correct. It's It's However, I'm paying about 13,000 a year for one property that I live in and that's in Troy. I understand. 20 sounds like a bargain for two,

right? I say that to say when it comes to an in from an investment standpoint, whoever is going to do the work, who whether it's me or whomever, Joe Schmo, they have to factor in that tax budget to their renovation. And the numbers are very very tight. So it it this deal only makes sense if someone is going to live on site like owner occupied 217. That's the only way this deal works. So, I don't know. Did you ever answer Tamara's question as Sorry. Um I Lyn, is he under contract? Yeah. Is he Are you under contract? Did you You're not under

No. However, the the the um financing will not go through. This is a commercial loan, so financing will will not go through unless they see correct. You're going to occupy one that and it has to make sense finan from a financial stand but can you can you enter I don't know I'm asking a dumb question can you can he write a contract saying contingent of it being approved at the zoning board and not without financing right you don't need financing to go under contract correct no they can they can 100% write a contract

the the only reason we're here and maybe I'm jumping ahead but the only reason we're here al together is because we were kind of told it You know this process would be easier started from the the current owner 100%. I would graciously come and speak on behalf that whole list I'm sorry that whole list of um she had a map there's I think within your paperwork there's a map of different different properties that are dormitories or Yes. Right. She marked everything off there. No, you didn't. But those are all pre-exist.

Yes. So, the neighborhood is and as you just said, I'm I'm sorry I didn't I didn't hear your name, but you just said the this this house is in a single family zone single family next right next to you know dormatory. So, I guess what we're asking is that we would like to be part of that group on the other side to utilize this property, get Suzanne out from underneath the stress of maintaining and paying for all of this. Somebody who's interested in living there and making it nice for the neighborhood. So, I'm all for it. Of course, I'm the realtor. Of course, I'm Let's move a little bit forward. We have online virtually. Angie,

yes, I think that's Steph. Is it Stephanie? It looks like it, but I don't know. Stephanie, are you out there? No, that's that's Emily, my daughter. Oh, she couldn't help her. No, no, Emily below Emily. She's here for moral support. Oh, the SF. I don't know. I don't know who that is. Anybody online would like to speak? Yeah. Just as a a comment to the applicant. I'm sorry, Paul. Um, so you you're aware that um most likely you will have to install a sprinkler system once you acquire this property. Is that built into your calculations?

That was another uh point to speak to zoning, you know, whoever kind of controls that. Um that's code the code, right? Sorry. Um because essentially we're we're just modifying the rooms. You're going to you're going to sprinkler. You're not going to be able to argue your way out of that. I can tell you right now, you're you're you're putting in bedrooms with people sleeping there on a regular basis. There's no way that it's not going to be not going to be a sprinkler requirement. If that changes your calculations, you should let us know. Okay. Very good. Very good. All right. And so,

we want to table it. We want to I would like you to table it so that we can renotice it as a dormatory uh as a variance for a dormatory. That's what you're seeking. Correct.

You had a question. Yes. Chris Marini. I'm the city engineer. Rick, isn't a dormatory just a more specific version of a residence? Do we really need to read notice it? Went out as res. I think we need to renotice it because we it's it is a special kind of residence. All right. It's not a it's not a single people could have read our notice and just thought it was single family. It's defined as are residential units a two-unit residence, you know, up and down apartments. I could Couldn't students live in a residential units? I mean, isn't it a subtype? Like, isn't dormator just a subtype of it? It's more restrictive.

Yeah. So, it still fits the advertisement. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Um, doesn't it doesn't fit closely. Okay. I understand what you're saying, Chris. Thank you. I know. Go ahead. Hi, I know this is a planning board kind of question, but I wanted to know you are proposing uh one full bath. Am I right on this for six? No, no, no, just three. Currently, there's one full bath and then there's two half baths.

So, the idea would probably be more the reverse. Two full baths, one half bath. Yeah. enough to where it's comfortable, you know, not trying to make it a maximize the amount of units and have everybody cramped or just a very comfortable uh living experience for everybody. Okay? You know,

so do the applicants understand what they need to do or exactly? I didn't think so. come back. Well, I think we just have to change the the nomenclature, right? Did that person want to speak or No, that's what we need to do. So, currently my understanding is it's tabled as a multif family. The application says multif family. No, no, multi-units. I didn't do the application. I think it says residential units or something. Resial units. Okay. I think dental medical office into residential units requiring a use variance. Yeah.

So, it doesn't meet the requirements to be converted back to a home and then renting to Well, here's the funny thing. In reality, it's zoned a single family house. So, in reality, couldn't he do whatever he wants with it? No, because it already has a grandfathered use variance that that has to be removed or changed or something. I guess he's he's proposing. Yeah. I mean, that's Well, everyone wants to, you know, blink away the fact that you're not supposed to be renting the houses like that. Correct. Right.

This is a dormatory. I think it should be advertised as a request for a dormatory use in a single fa in a what is on a property that is currently commercial but it is in a single family zone. I'm trying to be as precise as possible and I and I think we it should be tabled for a month. Um, I don't know if the fact that I think this will have to be sprinklered will affect uh the potential purchasers plans. Um, I just can't see it getting through our building department, our permit department without that requirement. Um, so you may, you know, if your plans change, I think we should know that before we before we go forward with the application next time.

I do have one question. No. If 2119 um say was someone approached us and they wanted to make it into a single family home again, you know, living room, kitchen, great room, bedrooms, bathrooms, would that require a variance? No. No. That would be an allowed use. That is what is zoned for. That's the intent of the zoning.

Okay. So, if it was a house, a home again like 2117 and um you know, let's just pretend I had the energy to renovate it myself and rent it to students. I wouldn't have to go through this. I would just renovate it and rent it out to students as a house. No, no, no, I couldn't do that. Your rental structure for the other property was has been illegal. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Nobody's going to arrest you, but it's not legal. Not yet.

That's what you were That's what you were saying. You were saying this goes on all the time in Troy and you're just coming to the table and trying to be legit, which we applaud along Avenue. There are so many Oh, I know. I know. But if you wanted to make it a single family house and sell it as a single family house, you could. That would not require Marriott. Yeah, I'm I was just trying to answer your question. I think if if the property reverted back to to single family, would that have any effect? And I I just I'm just curious. Would that have any effect on the taxes at that point? Would that readjust I'm not a tax person.

Before we get this table, one question. Who's going to do the verbiage to announce this? Does that have to be you? Okay. We still do the verbiage so you guys know that. So write it down and I will know what to Yes. And so what we'd like to do is table this next month. You don't have to provide but have a discussion with her just to make sure you're right on the same page. No. Yes. So we put it out there the right way or the way it should go. Okay. And so I need I need a motion from somebody here to Can I make one point? So this is agreed that we advertise as a room in house or do a dormator. Dormator. Yeah. Okay. Can it approve a rooming house?

Can it be uh applied in the alternative, you know, uh uh rooming house and or dormatory? I don't think we want that. So, the my sense my sense from the prior discussions was that a rooming house was off the table as being completely out of character in the neighborhood. Well, I just wanted to, you know, be able to have both. I think they could apply for it but then would be would it pass the variance filter and I'd so it's one or the other basically let's do that correct

and for now I think the proposed buyer can put in an application for uh site plan review by the planning board because we have deadlines for so I think the only thing that you need with this board is the approval of the zone uh the use variance So right now after today you can apply for a site plan review because it has to go through site plan review by the planning board. So you can submit an application for that him. Yeah, you can that. Yeah. Uh that is different from do we wait until this is tabled next month to do that application? Case is denied. There's no sense going to plan though. Yeah. So just wait until next month. Yeah.

And then application for site plan review. But to be clear, you you don't need to submit anything else. We're just going to renotice this for you guys for the dormatory and then you'll have to come back next month. So you don't need to give me anything for I just let you know that you have to come to the meeting. Correct. I'll make a motion to table this for next month uh with the review that it'll be that the verbiage would be changed to a dormatory. Second. All those in favor? October. I I No. I I

October 1st. Yeah. October 1st. 53. I I make a motion to adjourn the meeting. I'll second it. In favor? I I I meeting. Thank you. Okay, I got a flight. Bye, guys. Have a good drive. Thank you. Thank you. Take care. Where's she going? She's going out to Western New York. These are your papers for your Okay.