Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

since the picture. Uh, but it's a a minor undertaking that would be one of the first things that I would would address so that I'm not making a mess over there. So, the existing gravel if you if you mowed a little bit. Yep. Would be usable. Absolutely.

I'm good. I don't have any questions. existing uh which side of the existing on the right this so that is actually black top on the right there and then if you look on the left side you can see the gravel back there there's a parking area uh from well if if you want to put parking here it it will have to meet the front set setback requirements okay so right back in here there's a parking area for at least three vehicles really yeah that it has to be 30 ft from front over here. 30 ft. So, yeah. Okay. And that would that's Yeah. At least 30 feet back there. At least 30 ft. Yeah. Very.

So, if you want to put parking there, you have to consider that. Okay. You probably have to reach back to us if with plans of that parking. Okay. So, in other words, if it's more than 30 feet from the road, Yeah. you have you should be fine. Less you have to come back. Yeah. And it will be Yeah. Yeah. Wait, I'm confused, Angie. So, the driveway that's there now on the left, does he have to request a variance for that now or? Yeah, because this is not this is not paved. This is just gravel. So, he does need it or he doesn't need it? He doesn't. He's proposing that if the board wants him to put drive uh parking over there, then he will have to pave this.

Okay. Put kind of as fat on it or something. But that is why I'm saying if he intends to do that then it means that if he's providing parking right here it has to be at least 30 feet from St. Mary's Avenue on the front property line. The parking has to be at least 30 ft. Okay. So that is an existing parking area that is at least 30 feet. It's it's existing but it is it is over 30 feet though. So, okay. Yeah. You you if you intend to um proceed with that, you have to like show us some drawing. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Angelina, just for it to be paved or if he was just putting gravel down or both?

Well, right now it's not an approved parking right now. It's not an approved parking. I don't see side lawn with Yeah. I'm just This is not paved. It's just uh it's not concrete or anything. This is just uh gravel. Okay. It's not an approved parking surface here. So, if he wants to kind of like make it like an approved parking for the residents, he would have to um provide us with drawings on exactly where he's going. Would that be through the building department or zoning? Yeah. You have to they will come through if you submit to planning. Okay. Building permits. They'll let us Gotcha. Okay.

Yeah. So it won't come back to us probably because if he if he's not meeting the the teddy fee, he would come back to you guys. But it sounds like he should have no problem. Yeah, he said. Yeah. Can we grant a conditional variance based on the condition of resubmitting the plans to building our code and having it approved or do we wait until he comes back? Well, he this particular uh variance doesn't he's not required to provide parking. No, he does not. That's my point.

Yeah. So, you can grant it. I don't think there there should be an issue. It's not if he were to be required to come to provide parking, then you would have to make that condition. Okay. Do you understand? That is my Yeah. So, we can you guys can grant the use variance. However, in order to move forward with the building permit, if I were to increase parking or update parking, I would need to come back. Yes, absolutely. You go through the building department again. Okay. And then they will let us know if you're not meeting that.

Okay, makes sense. So, I can move forward, assuming I'm granted the use variance, I can move forward with building permit plans, which at this point may or may not include parking issues, but if I were to upgrade or change the parking situation, that would be a building department issue, which could come back to this board. Yes. Okay, great. Gotcha. Yep. Makes sense. Any questions from the public at all? Anybody online? No, there's no one on online is online. Okay. So, we want to use

I have a question before you go forward. Um at the last meeting before it was tabled um did anyone present the um environmental um motion? No. No. And without council present, uh are people comfortable with me presenting that? I am. Okay. Yes. Shall I proceed? Yes, proceed, please.

Uh, Mr. Chairperson, in regard to PLZBA 2026-0015 as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this proposal uh to be an unlisted seeker action with sufficient information available for a negative declaration. I second. I have a call. Yes. Roll call. Um I I approve. Approve. Yes. Approve. Approve. Now we got to go. All right.

I'll do it right here. I'm going to move

that the board approve PLZBA 20260015 at 1800 Mount St. Mary's A. The applicant is proposing to convert an existing single family dwelling into a two family requiring this use variance. The property is uh I move that we approve this variance. The property is unable to provide a reasonable return unless this variance is proved. The hardship relating to this property is unique when compared to similar properties and does not apply to a substantial portion of the neighborhood. The requested variance, if granted, will not al alter the essential character of the neighborhood and um well, it I guess it's not self-created. He's just kind of trying to move forward with what he's trying to do. So, his life. Yes.

So, okay. Second the motion. Okay. Wait. Are you putting a condition on that about the driveway? No. No. Let's do nothing to do with it. Let's do nothing. Yeah. I approve. I approve. Yes. Yes. Yes. All set. Thank you all very much. Have a wonderful night. Thank you. Good luck. Thank you very much. I'm gonna meet you. It's a beautiful house. It is a beautiful house.

Go to most things in my 34. Okay, we're gonna go to We're gonna go, like we said, um we're going to go to Brunswick Road. 34 Brunswick Road, please. East LZBA 20260025. State your name, your address, and I am Mark Hefernon. I live at 34 Brunswick Road. And what you're here for.

Um I' I'd like to uh build a fence in my front yard. I have a I have a I have a son with Down syndrome and he elopes. He he runs off. Uh, and I would like to create some containment um for for safety in the front yard, but also also to uh you know it we we want to create a we want to create a a security enclosure, you know, something that will prevent him from running into route two. Um, and uh, the design, the design that I've put forward allows a kind of a combination of uh, security and privacy while um, remaining neighborly. It's a it's a it's a 4 foot uh, it's a four to six foot uh, swoop top fence. So, it's four it's six feet at the at the posts. You can see here six feet at the post and comes down to four feet so that we can maintain visibility out into the to the to the community. Um but create adequate uh adequate safety enclosure security um and and some degree of privacy without a six foot.

All right. So, I looked at your house, your property, and somebody down the way's got a 4ft fence, right? If I'm looking at your house down, sure. Going out of going out of to the left. Thank you. Going out of Troy. They have a 4 foot fence. I have a problem with the six foot part of it. I don't have a problem with the I don't have a problem with your the variance of if if we make you do the the setback you're losing a lot of lawn and I understand you got a situation where you're trying to enclose what you need to enclose. Yeah. Uh now

well I just let finish like this particular fence is for me personally visually too solid if if I like the swoop. I don't love the six foot part. Um, you know, they do make the swoop fences that have a bigger gap in between them. So, it's just it's very and it's kind of heavy for that that little strip there because nobody else really has a fence there except for the one down the road that's got a short very wide picketed fence. So, visually for the town, I it just I think it does alter the neighborhood. I understand your point. You're looking for safety and security. Um, but I have kind of a problem with the visual aspect of it.

Yeah. The uh the picket fence that you're talk you're referring to up is probably six or eight properties up. Kind of like a It's kind of like a little garden fence. Exactly. It's a garden. And that's the only other fence on that strip of road there. Mhm. There are Yeah, it Yeah, there are also there are also some high uh hedges uh as well. Yeah, but no no other and you have you have a whole row of trees actually right where you want to put the fence. They're Yeah, they're slightly They weren't there yesterday. Were they? They believe they were. Yeah. Yeah. Right in the front.

Didn't you have rope? Didn't you have rope down there? I have a line. I have a line that's that's marking the they're like limes or something else. Yeah, they're rose. There you go. Okay. Yeah. And so they'll be in front of the fence. Okay. Right. Right. Right. Right. So I have a couple of questions if I may. Sure. I did three drivebys in the last week and I look at the property and I listen to your concern about your son getting out. Mhm.

The backyard or the backside to your house. is is enclosed in Kil Creek, right? And fully enclosed the backyard. Well, that was my next question because I didn't walk around your house. No. Yeah. And I was curious as to why security in the front was an issue, but there was no discussion of the back. Uh because because the back has been developed to be secure. That is question. It's Yes. The second question has to do with the U drive in front of your house. Yeah.

Explain to me how the U drive in front of the house is still fully accessible if you put that fence across the front of the property or are you giving up that you drive? Uh, no. At this at this phase, do we have a rendering that I sent you? This is what he sent out. I have a rendering here that I could maybe pass around here. I thought I had sent it to you, Angie, but can you bring the address up on Google Maps, Angie? Can I walk this around?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Show us what you got. This is the rendering of the property. Uh, and we can see the U drive over here and over here. So the in the site plan, the site plan will show how the U drive also maintains accessibility. So the U drive, there's one entrance here and there's another entrance here. So you're blocking that. Well, uh, that that is actually a future that's a that's a future thought that I I'm not addressing right now. How are you enclosing it so your son can't get out?

Uh, I'm Well, at this point at this point, I'm not enclosing it entirely. I'm creating I'm creating an enclosure across the across the front. This is this is 100 feet of lawn. Okay. So, I'm creating I'm creating an enclosure that has two only two exits. All right. So, so he's not going to be It's really not an It's not an enclosure. It's not an enclosure. It's a barrier. And actually, it's a barrier.

It's a barrier. Uh and and I have a I have I do have a future thought to uh to introduce an element of uh aluminum fencing to and and operable gates to to close the the the the driveway, but that's a whole another can of worms. So don't open it. We'll leave that closed. I'd like to So I mean does it have to be six foot tall? Uh honestly I I understand the barricade but I mean as a barricade I mean a 4ft fence

a 4 foot fence would would would provide the barricade. Uh yeah would would provide the safety barricade right which which then you wouldn't even need a variance for. Uh, right. There is the front. Oh, we got variance for Well, there's two variances. You would There's a front setback as well. Right. Right. Right. That we're not talking about that. Um, the six foot part. So, my question So, so so to your question. Yeah. Yes. Does does the 4 foot section do enough to stop his Would it satisfy you?

Um, well, it's it it does the security bit. Um, the, you know, the the six-foot element of it provides uh a degree of privacy that could allow us to reclaim our front yard in a way because there's a lot of traffic, especially Valente trucks, you know, and and the the quarry trucks that come down past there and it's it's it's unnerving, you know, to say the least. Um and so so that that's the that's the pres that's the that's the that's your point.

That's the idea of the design is not only to create safety safety and security but also to create create some degree of privacy while still maintaining a connection with the community. I don't want to put up a stockade in my front yard, you know. I and I see I see the zoning issue with that, you know. But I want to go back and finish my questions. Okay. Floor's yours. Thank you. Yes. We resolved the issue of the backyard. You've explained to us that the U drive would still be in effect. Accessible. Yes. And both ends of the Udrive would be open and accessible.

And that's shown in the BL plan as anybody. So, the security question sort of goes out the window with the openness of each end of the U drive. You're going to hear RJ Valenni trucks. Whether you have a 10-ft fence, a six foot, or a 4 foot fence, believe me, you're going to hear it. We're going to hear I live the fourth house down on Whitman and I can still hear polling. Yeah, Pauling is even heavier than Brunswick. Uh yeah, it's a tossup. Yeah.

Would you be willing to amend your request and go with a 4 foot high fence as opposed to the six? And I have a reason for asking that question if you want me to share my logic with you. Okay. Uh yeah, I would like to hear your logic. Yes.

I know of three properties in the city of Troy that were turned down to extend the height of the fence. They wanted to run down the back was go for six going down the sides to a certain point and then it had to drop to four. We had a similar case in Sickway up by the Fur Park area last year. I know of a property on the east side where the homeowners told the person if they proceeded with the six-foot fence, they would take them to court and to the zoning board in Troy. The person was smart enough to back down and did the four on the side. So, I've seen precedences for the four being upheld, but not the six. And that's why I'm asking you with all respect, would you be willing to go for a four?

Well, you pass me the picture again. Well, you know, as you point out, the the security would be adequate with four feet. Um uh I do I I do want to mention uh also that there was there was an aesthetic quality to the uh to the choice for the the curve top yeah um which is that this is 100 ft of fence. I understand

it's a long fence and you know a long straight fence uh has a different rhythm, has a different appearance, has a different feel than than something that undulates like this. So So that was a that was a purely aesthetic choice on my part to create that swoop top fence. And when I when I created this design, I didn't I didn't have any concept of the uh of the zoning. Um, no, I'm sure. Uh, I think the scallop fence looks nicer than what a straight foroot fence, but that's not the issue. I understand that, but I'm just Yeah. So, yeah. Stating it.

Um, uh, what if Well, so, so, so right now we're we're actually the minimum of this fence is the maximum height. What? But the minimum the minimum of this fence is the maximum allowable height in the front yard. It's 48 in four foot. Oh, four foot. Took me a minute to get that at the bottom. It goes to like six feet. Yeah. Uh, you know, I was thinking if I if I brought that down to three and a half foot or or something like that, that actually, you know, if I just moved it down uh half a foot or eight inches, then unless

then it would average out to four feet. Unless you just 4 foot with whatever color or column at the end of the eight foot sections you want. So, I'm gonna go back to because now you're talking about aesthetic. I I do I I like the scallop, but

I I I feel pretty set on the 4 foot. There's a reason that it's 4 foot in the front of a house and precedent has been set. But I think aesthetically, if you're talking about 100 feet of fence, if you were to have a fence that has spaces in between, aesthetically it would look just a lot prettier because it'll look like you got a house with a white picket fence versus a stockade fence. So, I would I would consider googling images, you know, sure picket fences that have spaces in between them that are still safe. You know, we've we've kind of xade that the fence isn't going to prevent Valent's noise. You're just looking for a barrier, but you're looking for an aesthetic barrier, and I I think spaces between the pickets would give you that.

Well, again, the privacy is uh I know, but you're you're losing out on the six foot part, so So, uh are you you familiar with the profile of a shadow box fence? It's a picket fence with pickets front, back, front, back. It's a It's alternating alternating pickets. Yes. So, it's still, you know, it's not solid. It can be seen through from an angle. It creates still a continuous height is four feet. What's it called? A shadow box. Shadow box. Yeah, I think that's what they call it. Shadow box. So, you have no corner post that are six. Oh, here we go.

Oh, say again. Yeah. What you're talking about? Oh. Uh, no. The Yeah, the the uh Yeah, we're I mean it sounds It sounds like the six foot is kind of um You were talking about you were talking about uh a little bit of a higher column being a potential. No. Well, this here's a nice shadow box here. I don't know what your end color is if you're just doing Yeah. I mean, that's a good looking fence. But it's a straight four feet. But it's a straightfor But there's no except with some except that might be a

No, I say the corner post does not exceed 4T. The crown on the ground. You can put crowns on it. You can put different like this. I think that's a good look. Yeah, right. That's what I did in my backyard to keep with send it to you. They let you go up in I just I just Googled what you said. Shadow box fenc that I would and that color looks I mean I think that would be beautiful. Yeah, looks great.

Um yeah, I'm amendable to that. Uh I'd have to think about framing details and things like that, but uh you know if the if the yeah if the six foot element of this uh is unapprovable then um then I have to revisit the design and I'm I'm game for Yeah. I mean I think it's it's it's pretty it's interesting. It it kind of gives you double barrier. Not really, but kind of sort of. And and then if you put the little oilless or whatever on top, that would be that would be interesting. Okay. Yeah. I mean,

oh, and as you say, uh, if I go down to six, if I go down four feet, then it we don't need the varian. If you go with a 4 foot high, you don't need the varian. Now the second part is are you going to need an offset on that variance. So Angie pointed out to me that there is an offset issue in the front in the front yard which uh which I was surprised by because this is already 10 feet back from the road but my property line is nine feet back from the road. So there's a requirement for the fence to be five feet behind the property

line. want to use one foot instead of five. Yeah. And but you know and and I you know I Angie and I had had a discussion via email about that and and about how there there's uh the the I guess that front setback is for visibility of traffic or Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, so I already have 10 feet from the curb and my fence turns back at at either end, but you're not running the fence across both ends of the U drive.

So, you've got No, it fact there's a five foot there's a five foot setback from the drive. My point being exactly what you just said. Yeah. You got plenty of visibility coming in or going out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think visibility so Angelina does he still would need the variance, right?

Is going to be the same footprint as this one. Yeah. So, and and the reason the reason that I really want to have the fence within that, you know, within the, you know, 10 feet back from the driveway is because that that creates usable space both on the outside of the is the fence I looked at today. You you've got your bushes or shrubs in. You didn't have them in a couple days ago, right? I did. You did. I I saw we saw the strength. I didn't see any trees. I saw the row of sharing and I turned around. There were rows of sharing. Yeah, I saw them. I saw them. I'm with you. Is the fence proposed fence behind those?

Correct. Correct. It's kind of tight to it. The the Rosa Sharon is just in front. I got it. The Rosa Sharon has has two feet behind it. So, you can still put a lawn mower behind it. Sure. That's fine. Yeah. Oh, they get big. I know. I didn't think of that because I missed them. Well, there's no leaves on them quite yet. No. Yeah, they they don't they leave out late. Yeah, they request for the six foot. You're going to go with the four. That's not the issue. I can amend that. Fine. Yeah. That goes in the minutes that he's voluntarily amended that so we don't have to vote on that because four is allowed by code. Right. Correct. Right. Right. So the only thing he needs

is a variance for the setback which I personally don't have a problem with. Neither do I. Neither do I. So let's do what we got to do. Okay. All right. It doesn't have to submit it. Do you still want to have a transparency requirement? I mean, say again, the stockade portion of it, are you okay with that at 4 feet if it's still stockade or would you rather see some type of transparency element which is typical for front? I'll I'll do a I'll do a shadow box though. I don't have problem with the shadow box. Yeah, I think the shadow box I think you want to make that what I think what you're asking is do you want us to make that aition condition it can't be fully stock cage I don't is is the cost similar I mean

you're building this yourself yes oh okay because if if if it isn't you come back and then you say well it was more costly than I thought you know yeah no it's same uh it's very similar material it's a little you know it's it's a a little bit more coverage of uh fencing, but so we just shorter for the approval of the 4 foot fence with the one foot offset. Yeah, those two conditions. Got it. Uh so you you are approving a different kind of fence, right?

The shadow box is what you indicated, correct? at foroot. I have to confirm that whatever you does it doesn't have to be resubmitted as a new application or revised application. Well, it goes away because he doesn't need a variance. He's doing a forefoot, right? But it's I may have to amend my building permit. Could we Could we vote on both variances separately? deny them one and then so he has to go to four feet and then the second one we would we could vote on and if it gets approved like you could vote on them separately,

right? We could we could we could we could disapprove we could vote on it and not approve his height and then we could vote on his then that would not cause him to resubmit and say oh that's the way around resubmitting to ZBA. If you want to resubmit you can come back next month. No I don't really want I want to start digging if it's foot we don't it doesn't matter to us what kind of fence it is. Exactly. complicated. No, I'm not. No, I'm not saying you are. Yeah, I think one we don't have to vote on at all. No, I think you should because then you because it would show that the six foot.

Yeah, I think you should. Okay, let's do the secret. You want me to do it? I'll do it if you want. You can do this if you got it. Go ahead. Go ahead. This is a type two. Oh, okay. We're going in circles. Okay. Um, it is type two. Uh, Mr. Chairperson, in regard to PLZBA 2026-0025, as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this proposal to be a seeker type two action with sufficient information available upon which to state that no determination is necessary or required. I second that motion. Uh, I approve.

I approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. All right. All right. So, I I'll I can I'll do You're going to move to the board to deny. I might move to approve and see if you guys voted in. I move that the board approve. I'm going to do these each variance differently. I move that the board approve the variance with the um based on the following uh findings and facts. You got to say what the variance is.

Oh, the for the for the first variance that the area variance to permit a fence height up to six feet in the front yard where a maximum height of four feet is allowed and where you're requesting two feet variance. So my personal take on this is that the reason we should approve it is it doesn't really create an undesirable change. There's other fences in the area with the same similar height. Um the benefits sought by the application um I guess only needs one. That's good. No, it's area. Don't you need all four? No. Okay. All right. So, that's that's it. Okay. I'll second.

So, I'm going to say I deny that request. I deny the request. I approve. No. Denied. No. Denied. Denied. So, there's no second to that. Uh, so the motion is There was a second. I seconded that. He made it. Okay. She seconded it. It didn't pass. Four nos one. Yes.

So for the second variant, which is the area variance to uh uh for PL ZBA 202600025. Um that I vote that we I move that the board approve the variance for the setback of one of a relief of four feet. I'm going to go with the same area that doesn't create a hazard, doesn't create an undesirable change to the neighborhood because you have a clear view of the traffic. I'll second that. I approve of that. I approve, too. Yes. Approve. Approve.

So, are you now uh is he going to have he's not going to have the exact same proposed uh fence type? No. Yeah. He doesn't have to come back here now. just gives her four feet. Four feet with the shadow box. Okay, that's what we'd like to see, right? I think he's made it very clear. Well, we're good. We We're clearing it up. Four feet on on the record. All right. With an offset of four feet from the property line. So, we can build it one foot to the line. That's what we said, isn't it? Yeah. that it's a shadow box.

There you go. Do you want me Do you want me to Do you want me to put the condition that it's a shadow box on there? I I don't think it's necessary if it's It's okay. All right. Just put a fence in your yard. Your yard. Thank you. Are you Are you for hire? You need a fence? I know that didn't go the way you guys. Sorry. Rick's on 787. Rick is not. Rick just called me. Where is he? He's on 7. He was on 787 two minutes ago.

Part of 787. I don't know how traffic should be. Can we do discussions? Yeah. I mean, it's not that big a highway. So, but if he was coming up in you can ask if you ever have questions table here. Let's adjourn just for five minutes until council council's close guys. So, that's what we'd like to do. Please. Oh, just Oh, I got this from DMV.

I just You saw me nodding my head. I I think a fence without transparency is just so inappropriate for a front yard. That just not good for him either. It doesn't look nice. Well, like that's right. Nobody You never see closed stock gate fences in front yards. No. Backyards and sideyards. It's not what Troy wants it to look like. I'm the city. I think the shadow box is even though that's that I mean that's the whole point of it, right? That's a great call because that's the compromise when you want privacy in the front. But like it's aesthetic. Please pick it with some with some hedges would also be very nice, you know, but that's that's his call. It's the money is spent as property. That's right.

Yeah.

Consistent, right? I like the the statement of the president. This is what she gave me. So I mean Yeah. No, no, but it on the record. Yeah. Surprised transparency isn't already required for yard. I So when I went down there to do my business, it's weird to have a fully closed fence in the front yard. It just doesn't look But that shadow box gave a little bit. No, I like the shadow box. I'm surprised our code doesn't already have a requirement for him, but it doesn't. Apparently, you did. Apparently, if you keep it down four feet, you could use you could have a fully closed fence in your front yard,

right? All he was doing was changing his so that I mean, I think he's got um if I was writing the code for that area, I'd say decorative fence only. Is there a DMV for him? I feel like there was personally no. Right. Yeah. It's a standard architectural practice to not put private, you know, privacy fences in your front yard. Are to look both sides of the bad. I think it looks nicer in the rendering. That's good.

Yeah. 6 to4 is a pretty that's a pretty serious fence. Oh, yeah. It's that that shadow bus looked superior to that what he was proposing. Actually, it's okay. It's on there though. It is. Um and um right here got something from them. said that there is one

could have sworn there was something I me too. I thought

it was it was with the license. I agree with I think it's fair to to want people to be able to build whatever they want on their property as well, you know. I don't think I don't think it's a bad take.

Yeah. It would stand out. No doubt about it. It would stand out. It wouldn't look good. All right. You know what? I think you think that.

Oh, okay. Oh, you know that. Okay. They said the oldest house. For what? For what team?

I got it. Yeah. Very young. Do they start drilling next year yet? Did they start drilling the geothermal yet? You live right there, right? Yeah. They're doing it. They said they're doing test ones as training and like to have the public come and like see how it all works and stuff like that. I hope he did tell me that legal.

Did he drill me a hole for my house? Yeah, I brought that up to him. He said he didn't remember it. Did you really? Yeah. But here's I don't think I I didn't use your name. I was like, "Didn't you have some neighborh things and stuff?" I will tell you.

Yeah. Crazy expensive. What was it? I think it was 30k. Yeah. Wow. So if I guess I was spend money on that solar. Yeah,

there's no way It's

I think we can start the conversation. Okay. PLZB 202600006 31 Christy Street. Please state your name and Hello, Elizabeth Rodriguez, also known as Lisa. I'm here um as an employee of TAP Incorporated representing Andy Perez for Well, I work for TAP Incorporated and I'm here representing Andy Perez. the owner of the property. Is Mr. Perez retaining you or is TAP retaining you?

Mr. Perez. Thank you.

Okay. So, I think we just need one variance here. And um Oops. The reason is because this property is unusual in that the primary residence is at the rear of the property. So the variance we're requesting is to have the accessory dwelling unit at the front of the property instead of set back 25 ft because the main house is all the way at the back of the property instead of at the front of the property. If we put the accessory dwelling unit 25 ft back from the front property line, it doesn't leave a a nice usable area between the two structures. So that's really it.

Got any pictures? I know drawings are This is the elevations that provided. You want to No, that's the view. No, no, no. I mean, I've been Yeah. Can you break up the Google view? Please. I'm sorry. So, the the dwelling behind is a single family. Yes. And this is going to be a single family.

Yes. It it is it is odd because since it will now be in the front, it sort of becomes the primary building and the building in the back becomes the accessory unit. So, so to speak, the roles are reversed. Yes. But we can't make it I large because of the accessory dwelling unit rules. There we are. Yeah. How tall is the new building? How tall was that new building? Gosh, I couldn't see it. Really? It's two stories. It's gonna

It's two stories and it's got a a hefty attic, but not a large enough attic. Is he living in the new building or the old building? I believe his intention is to keep living in the main house. So, he's living in the main house now. The house should be here. I can read from here. Oh. 25. Okay. And that's that's from the street view. That's even though I'm not going to see it because there's a fence there, but that's what I would see on the Yes. Okay. It's pitched that way because question. Yeah. What's the pitch?

It's so close to the property line. We don't want to dump water. Let me see the the the street view again of the other house. Oh, well, I can't really. There's nothing there to see. Okay, I see. Have a question. The residence is in the back of the property there.

Yes. You want to build a separate structure in the front of the property just behind where that red fence is located? Yes. How close to the front property line are you going to come? I believe we plan to set it back four feet. So it looks like about even with where that fence is. So the actual framing or foundation would be where the fence is. Correct.

Yes. And the reason to set it back a little bit rather than have it right on the property line like the other buildings on the block. The other buildings uh their first story is above grade. This is a slab on grade and um that means the resident's windows are going to be closer to the ground. So you don't want them right on the property line because then people can just look right in your windows. Set them back a little bit. There's no basement propos. It's on a slab.

Yes. Have has had do the plans allow for 30% or more transparency in your proposal? I don't think we at his current point. No, but it can be updated. I think that was included in the staff report recommending that you at least provide 30%. We can do that. That's no problem. You can make that a stipulation. So will the fence uh would it will this proposal call for the removal of of the fence? Yes. Okay.

Let's talk about emergency vehicle accessibility. Police, fire, ambulance getting to what's now the primary residence at the back if that proposed structure is built in the front. Is there emergency vehicle accessibility to get to that primary residence that I'm looking at now? There the remaining space between the ADU and the what's an ADU?

Accessory dwelling unit. Sorry. Um that's what this is that we're proposing an accessory dwelling unit which is required to be dimminative um and kind of sub subservient to the main house. There is over I believe 25 ft between the ADU and the property to the west. So there's plenty of room this way to get to that house. And that house backs right up to Cane Street in the back. So it has very good fire access, especially compared to other properties in choice.

So you're telling me there's a street directly behind that primary residence? Yes.

But we're looking at Christy Street, right? Yep. Here he comes. There's a man. Actually, that's that's Kane Street. But that's but that's the house. That's address. Yeah. No, that's not Christie. That's Kane address. But it backs up on Kane.

I know. But far back. It's a very far set back. I have a go back to the front view if you would for just a second please. I just want to ask a question. Um I'll let you get there. Go around the block. All right. So when I'm Okay. Yeah. Right from there. So you see where it says no posted or whatever it says posted sign or no parking. So is the is that one side of the building then all the way to the right like where does where does the when I'm standing there and this building is erected where is the so I'm just going to call it the river side of the house is that is that right about where that sign is where it says no parking

yeah similar I would say so so it's not going to obstruct the original house you'll be able to see it The whole width, that hole width there will be visible between this new structure and the property line. Is there a proposed driveway that goes from Christy Street down the right side of the new structure all the way to the back to the original house?

No driveway. And there's a little bit of a level change between Kee Street and this property. So, it's not really practical to do a driveway. So, is your property where the stockade stops or is there more there to the right as I'm looking at this photo? I feel like there's more there. Um, I don't know for sure, Ethan. Do you know? So, like where that garbage pale is, it goes I see that there's a there's a chain link fence there, right? I think that's our property line. So, how close to that property line is is are we going here? Two numbers here. It's it's right here.

5' 7 in. So, the length of me and that house neighboring is also set all the way back like that. Yeah. But no driveway. No.

Mhm. Yep. It's meant to be an accessory dwelling unit to the main house. Is the plan to rent it? Yep. You have Mr. Perez wants a tenant in that. He's gonna He's going to live in the main building but have a tenant in there. Yes.

Andy is Andy, right? That's the owner. No, that's okay. He's not here. Okay. Okay. Andy's got to live. He's the primary residence of the back house, but then he's going to move to the front. Is that No, no, he'll stay in the back. The original house. He'll stay there. So, I have a question for council on this. That would be you. Did you punch in?

So, so I know that there's you've there's some rules that I don't really know, but that you know, Mr. Pres has to be living in the primary residence. He's going to build this accessory dwelling. What happens what happens down the road when he I'm going to go back to my old stuff. when he moves away or moves to Guilderland or something like that to the what happens to the rules of that for the next person living there or if he maintains ownership and decides to go live someplace nice

that's the real question he moves out too yeah I have another question well so what happens he would they Good. Right. Yes. And then that becomes what we don't want.

I would say that's a flaw in the wording of the zoning ordinance to require to only allow this where there the occupant lives in the primary residence. That's not something you can govern over time. That's is something you can govern at a moment in time. And as you point out, um it can change at any time, but ADUs are allowed. that it would be an excessive way. So it's it's more so that it would so that apartment for a child an office a relative or something like that was that was

and I think it was for like courage houses but the word didn't specify those courage houses that exist I think that's that really answered my question is I thought the accessory dwelling units were more like for you do what you're saying as like an office like a home office a study um rental income and or in-law I didn't think it was so I think that's what we need to define is what is Troy's definition of an accessory dwelling I didn't think it was meant for renting out for for return I think there is a definition I don't think

I think another part of that question is how do we know if people are running out things that are supposed to be just true single family residential things, right? They're supposed to now subleting you would never you would never know and you never have an issue with it. So presumably if they're following that, right, you could sublet this ADU because you're not actually if you're living there, right? If you could market it, it would probably make like a what's that rent program? Oh, you mean like like furnish finders kind of thing for like nursing or stuff like that? Airbnb. Airbnb. Oh, Airbnb. Yeah, I knew where you were going.

Eie. I guess I want to know what the Oh, is that it? Yeah, Angelina brought up the definition. Secondary dwelling unit established in conjunction with and clearly what's it say? subordinate to a primary dwelling unit. I mean in reality it's a separate house being put in his front yard. Secondary dwelling established in conjunction subordinate to a primary dwelling, right? Yeah. I mean it doesn't really seem subordinate because it's in the front. Your thought? Well, it's also it's also about the same. I don't know how big that about the same size.

I feel like it's about the same size. But you mean like in height? Because it's the footprint is tiny. If you look at the site plan compared to the house, what's the square footage of the house versus the square footage of the ADU? This interesting square footage of the house. Ethan is my glasses today. So Ethan also works at

Hello. Hello. Um so right now the square footage of the ADU is 792 square ft and the actual proposed uh coverage of the main uh house is around um just going to do quick math here. It's almost double from what I remember. Is this is a 792 the footprint or both stores? 792 is actually both stories. So it's 792 square f feet is the size of the ADU. Both stories. Yeah.

The living space. Yes. The footprint is less than 400 square ft. And then the house in back is you you can is a house. Yeah. It's um three times the size of

so uh tying to um Zach's comment, Richard is subordinate uh relating to um the size of the respective buildings or the relationship of the people who reside in those entities. So like does the um accessory unit have to or the the the person residing there persons have to be related or as as Zach indicated you know like an office or some sort of related use to the primary uh uh person's residence or is it just again by size and the nature of it being on the same But it says a secondary dwelling unit. So it's not a primary dwelling unit,

right? Established in conjunction and clearly subordinate to the primary dwelling, right? So So if I was renting in it, wouldn't it be my primary dwelling unit? Like I'm not I'm just playing devil's advocate here, right? That's what we're talking about is subordinate. And then the second part where it talks about the use of that subordinate. Yeah. The accessory use customarily incidental and subordinate to the principal use of the law. So it's which means it's really part of the house. This these two don't have anything to do with that. These are different definitions. Yeah. This

what's the intent of the separate dwelling unit? Rental income.

Yeah. And I'll I'll add that Troy's new ordinance is very pro- density and very forwardthinking in allowing for this type of use. And Albany, for example, just added this use to their ordinance that they did before ours to allow for more density because a city is more successful when you have more residents to support the businesses. So, um I think that's why it's built into the ordinance that you're allowed to do this. It's they want you to be able to build on your own property and have a rental unit for whoever. It could be a teacher, it could be a student, it could be your mother, um your child, anybody. but it's a smaller unit, so more affordable than a main house, but in proximity to larger houses that those people couldn't afford. So, the ordinance is very pro progressive. Um, and we appreciate that. and TAP, maybe you know, we're running an accessible dwelling unit program where we give out grant money to people to build these types of houses because the state is trying to address the affordable housing crisis. So, we have a grant program that gives out $125,000 worth of um construction money and service money to help people build these accessory dwelling units

for the purposes of renting. Yes. What would be the limitation on u if the board were to allow this in the front yard this premises? I mean could you have could you have adus on whip courts? That's up to you and it's case by case basis. That's why we're standing here. This is an unusual case where the house it's a a long lot and the house is all the way at the back. That that's a very unusual situation in Troy. It's not the norm. There are other places that have big front yards.

Sure. And it's up to you to decide that because this block already has houses that are up at the line. We thought it made sense that this could work with the accessory unit up at the line or close to the line. Whitman is in R1. He was I think this would be allowed if this house was up closer to the line and this was in the back, right? We're here for the front setback because the unusual existing condition of So they if it was in the back, you wouldn't need a variance at all. I'm not positive. It might If it were set 25 ft back, we don't need a variance.

Yeah. If you were set 25 foot back, you would not need the variant. You just need a building. But I don't think our one is this is we're here because of the unique existing condition of this house happens to be set back very far from the property versus the others. You don't have 25 ft to set it back. Oh, he does. Well, he does, but there is space to set it back. It just chops up what's left of the yard into not much usable space. It's It's chopped into a big sort of front yard and then a kind of a middle yard. I didn't see your rendering. Do you have street? Not a rendering. We have the site plan. We have elevations.

So that's the Lisa. Does the state does the state require the uh the owner to live in either of the units? Yes. So, how do they ensure that the owner lives in Yep. So, there's a regulatory period that's enforced through restrictive covenant of 10 years. Um, and that covenant can also be transferred if they do end up selling the house to the other owner.

Who enforces that? uh that is enforced through um I guess through through through us and through HTFC, a New York State uh homes community and renewal. Uh HTFC is housing uh trust fund corporation. That's their overarching organization. So you would have to so if this person says okay I'm going to live in this one either the accessory dollar unit or the main house and he doesn't actually leaves there. How do you know that?

So there there is um we have multiple contracts with them that uh allows us to uh inspect their property uh by annually every two every other year. Um, I believe we approached the um the city of Troy. I can't remember if it was planning or zoning uh to discuss the city of Troy also being part of the inspe inspection team to to ensure that this is the case that they are on the property and they are renting it to an eligible tenant. Um, but yeah, that that is the the mechanism through which we verify that a team has been established. you're saying that

uh at least on our part in TAP's part, yes, we have an ADU uh team that is planning to run this both in Troy and Albany. I'm sorry, I missed your discussion of the restrictive cover. Uh yeah, so it's a uh it's a 10-year restrictive covenant that uh binds the homeowner to not only the stipulation that they have to stay on the property uh for for the 10 years, but that they also cannot uh basically demolish or and put any additions to the ADU and sort of expanding it without our permission or uh HCR's permission. That that restrictive covenant is a condition of getting the grant.

Correct. So you could not sell the property in year four or five or seven. Uh you could you could but the the the covenant would would then transfer to that owner and it could only transfer if the within the program if they meet the income limits at the time of signing because the program is meant to assist low to median income. Other ADU properties in Troy uh we are helping other homeowners develop Yeah, we're we're only architects. So, are you the owner, Chris? From these are from TAP. These guys are from Tap. Okay, that's where this Mr. Perez is getting a grant

to to build this ADU. How many Maybe I'm a dummy or something. H how many of these are does the city of Troy have on tap? Um, we have one currently outside of the edu program which is run by the state. Uh, that one's um sort of by the east side of Troy. Um, that that's one that we know of. There probably have been others, but yeah, for in in Troy, we're going to do about 10

and uh none of them have gotten to this part yet or uh require a variance as of right now. This is the first one that requires a variance. Are you administering the grant? Uh, TAP is. Yes. Tap is Y. With regards to the restrictive covenant, who who who um is responsible for filing it with the county clerk's office uh along with a deed. So, it anyone who does a property search will see that it runs with the land. Sure. That's on the homeowner's responsibility. Um, and it's part of the only one of the the contracts and one of the uh documents that they have to sign and notoriize in order to get access to the grant funds.

So, what happens after 10 years? It goes away. Yeah. After 10 years, uh, fair game. Fair game. So, after 10 years, we approve the owner doesn't need to live there anymore. Correct. Based on you, but based on our rules, they do zoning, right? I mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, like like Lisa pointed out, it's a it's a loophole or just a a missing link. Is it or theirs? I think it's you require it was an oversight that and right now we don't we don't really know what will happen at that point.

I I may ask one question. I don't know if I should ask this or not, but I don't understand why we've never met Mr. Perez. Um Mr. Mr. Perez travels a lot for his occupation and he has retained us to represent him. Mr. Perez, has his legal residency been firmly established as Christie Street? I know there were some questions that had been brought up prior. Yes. Uh I've not been informed of the result. Neither have we, at least officially. We've only, you know, seen that he's provided documents and that has come to him being put on this agenda. Uh so we took that to mean that he was approved and you know,

so you don't know that Mr. Perez legally resides there. Uh according to his documents and from what he's told us and the fact that we've gone to site meetings with him, yes, he does live there. So to get approval for that grant um he has shown you sufficient proof of his uh his residence. Correct. This means so I could I have his photo copy of his driver's license. Yeah. Which has his printed address cost out

and Yes. 31 street. I just said keep going though. It's good. So I mean is that legal? Is that legal when you go for a new license now? You could and get it updated. That's our understanding is that's the legal way to do it until the new license next licensing cycle is you cross it out and put the correct. Do they apply for a new license? Do you know? Um according to Mr. Pres and our correspondence. Um, he has that's just what uh he had to do in order to present that to the DMV for a change.

And then there was a there was an insurance document, right, Steve? Yeah, there's Geico. There's a spectrum bill, too. Spectrum Geico. Well, the insurance document could go you could have I like if you have own a property, you have an insured, you could have the bill go there. I don't know if I know. I don't know if does that is that I guess my question is that proof of of residency. I don't know. No, because if you own property, you have to have home owners insurance on you own five properties, you have homeowners insurance on five properties, your name attached to it. So, so it does to me it doesn't prove residency.

Well, I think that was the request that uh the ZBA gave Mr. Perez list of items that he could bring and was included licenses. I think the the most valid looking one just a comment of observation on the Geico

correspondence. There's no PNC policy here that states 34 Christy Street is owned and insured by Mr. Perez. This is simply a cover letter dated December 19th of 25 thanking him for being part of the Geico insurance family. Well, there's a policy number scratched out here.

The policy number on the car is scratched out. The policy term is scratched out. But that's not the policy. That's not a PNC policy. I think you were asking for evidence of bills coming to his residence to prove proof of residence.

Well, a bill coming to your house is that's usually a bill goes to your house. It's it's difficult to prove residency in terms of somebody actually sleeping the you know more than half of their nights there. Now, in enforcement, it's easier to see if someone else is living there in the future if there's issues or concerns, but uh I don't know. Is it hard?

I think probably what has the most validity. I I don't know like National Grid and Verizon and see if they have multiple on city of Troy tax bills. I think that I think he changed it with the tax department. The city of Troy tax department. Did you get something like that, Angelina? He may he may have done all of those things and he may have applied for a new license, but none of the documentation was Yeah, Angelina, he didn't give you anything with the tax for the taxes. It's you the water bill is there's a letter from Marty RS indicating that the water bill is coming in his name. Mhm. They have that

if you're running, let's put it that way. He may be trying to do exactly the right thing, but it's not there yet. Yeah. Because I think he was in transition from going from New York City to here. Travels a lot. Yeah. I don't know. I'm sure there's a standard like the IRS has of someone that owns two homes like one in Florida, one in New York, which taxes you're going to pay, right? I'm sure there's a standard of both. Yeah, I know. But you pay both. But is called, but I'm sure there's a way to prove that.

Yes. It's called a copy of your New York State income tax return that shows your residence address as your address of file. Yeah. I mean, like, yeah, I guess like where does there's no guess. Where does his where does his employer where do they send his W2? Like that would be interesting to me. I don't know. I'm not I'm ask not asking you. I'm just asking the question generally like I don't know. I guess is that really the issue? I mean if it is I I would have hoped that we would have heard that that wasn't enough documentation so he could have gotten you more before we came back to you. I think I think at the point he provided 2020

was it 24th W2? I remember the first time he appeared here. He provided a W24. I do remember that. I did it. Well, I I do agree with you. Is that the issue? I mean, do do you love the idea other than this or do you not like the idea? I think the intent of these accessory dwelling units were not to be rentals. I think that's when they I don't think this was a a thing when they wrote this back when it was 20 whenever it was. I think it was I'm just gonna interrupt for a second.

Hold on one second. I think this was more like you said about or Angie said about carriage houses, you know, in-law apartments and those type of things. I don't know if it was renters. I mean, and just dwelling unit is called a dwelling unit place where somebody lives.

And then the fact that it's the other part of it too is that your grant requires you to be there. They live there 10 years and then but the code requires them to be there permanently. And I think that's the idea to me. If you want a rental unit, split the property in my mind. I But I don't know. I kind of I'm personally torn on this, right? This is an fence for somebody to protect their kid going through the yard. This is a a rental apartment, which is which is a lot different. And I sometimes think when we talk about density, I think we're a little overdense. I agree. And I and so I don't know. I have to think about it a lot more right now. So, I'll shut up.

I I just want to say generally ADUs around the country and in New York, they're meant to be, you know, an additional rental income and they're also meant to, you know, uphold property value. And it's one of the only forms for homeowners nowadays, especially in single family zones, to become their own developer. you know, it's it's u it's it's one of the ways to to promote that type of wealth where especially in low to median income uh zones where where there are no mechanisms to do so. Uh and and the grant, the New York State grant, the fact that it's it's that lenient of a covenant and that forward in terms of the amount that it's giving per homeowner shows that that is the intent to to promote that type of wealth building where there previously was none. And I think we all respect that and we respect um the intent of the loan of the grant. Uh but all it's all tied to uh making this uh homeowner uh um relying on him or her to show proof or to be the actual owner and actually reside. And so all this money, all this reliance depends on that. And what we have been shown thus far is is

very flimsy support of that because you could conceivably have bills sent to different locations for other reasons. When you did I just want to say something to I have a question for you. Obviously my opinion. I mean, I've driven by there. It looks like that. It I I personally don't like the idea of a house in front of a house. I think it detracts from the property value of the primary house. I think it's a money grab and I don't like it. Does Does the house So, when you guys did drivebys, I wasn't able to because I was busy working. Um, is the house in that much disrepair? Because to me,

absolutely. Yes. That looks like an abandoned house to me. And it's put a house in front of it. If I'm understanding this properly, it's taxpayer money funding that new. Well, it's New York State. It might be coming through home or something. Okay. Oh, yeah. Is it coming through home? Um, it's a it's a mixture. Uh, but when it's taxpayer money, well, that's it is tax. But I mean, New York State has these housing grant programs. Sometimes they're keep they're tied to income. Is this one tied to income? You mean like if there's income limits? There are income limits. Yes. Yes.

Do we have any photos of the inside of the house to show that someone is actually residing in that kind of I don't think that's important. I just I think we have to I I we can't require however if the outside looks dilapitated

and he claims that he's residing there that would that would give some indication that he is actually residing in that dilapidated house. With respect, I do want to uh you know echo what Lisa was saying in that you know there has been correspondence he has been providing and uh been very collaborative in in doing what you have requested of him. Uh and although they're not present physically, there is email evidence that shows that he's been trying to to comply. Um what we're a little bit frustrated with is that you know uh we it sounds like we're hung up on the idea of whether he is or isn't uh the owner when that isn't the the dealing of of why we're here and why we were retained. That should have been done prior to us showing up here.

To be fair, okay, I think there are two problems here. At least that's what I'm hearing from the board. One is they're not sold on the idea of putting an ADU in front of the other one. The second one is that the program has certain limitations and the evidence that has been provided is not persuasive enough and it's the board that has to decide this. So, um you would be well advised I think to if you were to satisfy the board that that was his genuine residence because it doesn't even look like a residence right now like someone is residing there. Maybe that might tip the balance a little bit. I don't know. I'm not a voting member. Uh, I understand your frustration, but understand the board's frustration. You're here asking for relief, and you're not you're not satisfying them that you deserve it.

Well, it's not it's not us, you know. It's it's the owner. The own the owner has been providing the these documents. You represent the owner, right? Correct. But but what I'm saying is that there there are more documents than what is present to you right now. It's just in email form and that should have been observed. I think we should I think they were looked at before those were also not right. Um is there any public have any questions or Okay. And is anybody online Angie? No no nobody's online but uh there are some recommendations in the staff report that uh staff thought that

uh sidewalks and curb Yeah. The current state of this uh property is in Nepal state and so um I think I already sent copies to the applicant uh represented by tap here. They want the ke the sidewalks and the uh caps u upgraded uh to meet code. Yeah. I think if there's no more questions, can we bring it to a seeker, please? Oh, yeah. Seeker.

All right. Uh um Mr. chairperson. Um, regard to PLZBA uh 2026-00006 uh as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this proposal to be a seeker type two action with sufficient information available upon which to state that no determination is necessary or required. So, um I'm sorry. I'm just screw you guys all up here. Um is there though? So, if you're if you said the elevation was different, right? So, the house is set back as lower. You're pitching a roof this way and the water runs off. It's going to run off into that house. I mean, I there might be an environmental aspect to this, I guess. I don't know. But to me, I don't know.

The water's running off into the yard. There's plenty of yard space on that side of the house. There just isn't yard space. You want to keep more yard because then I'm gonna say if there's plenty of yard space, why not just set it back to 25 because they lose the yard space. That's if you want a rental property then might this is what you want to do. I don't know. I think it's self-induced. That's what I'm saying. That's why I think the more I think about it, it is it is I mean you have the room to do it to do it within code. proceed with let's proceed. Uh the classification of the of the seeker type two is is is not in question. So uh okay my my motion stands. Um anyone seconding?

I would second. Call I I approve. I approve the seeker. Approve. Approve. Approve. Seeker. We I mean I mean I'll I can call it to vote if you want us to call it to vote. I mean I think there were some concerns raised. I guess it's up to you. Do you want us to table or do you want us to call it to vote? Do you want to reconsider the your plans based on what does uh

I have a sense that if you voted you would vote no and so if you table it and he provides all the proof are we going to come back and find that you vote no. So um so I would like to address that. So thank you. I don't care for the project. I don't care if he lives there or he lives in Idaho. I don't care for the project. I'm not I'm not hung up on the proof. Don't tell. I'm just saying I'm pretty transparent.

I'm in favor of voting on this tonight. I am to me. You got the room. Do it within code. I can't stop you. to me if you're I'd feel a lot better if it was the grant was not this 10-year thing and it was attached to forever because that's what our rules are and it's not

and it's not our grant chang have to look further if something else is triggered but if they could set it back closer I would Practically speaking, it kind of do think it fits better near the front given the unique setback of the existing house. It does fit in okay there in terms of okay location in my in my opinion. It's just an opinion. You also dislike the scallop fence. We did discreet on that one too. So I I think both of your concerns are very reasonable as as well. I agree with you.

Okay. I don't know. I can call it the vote if you want me to. Yes, please. I I'll even do it the way I did the last one. Is this a This is an error there. This is So you only need one. Yeah, you only need one. Okay. In regards to PL ZBA 2026006 31 Christy Street, I move the board approve the variance. You know what? I'm gonna put the condition there with a condition that a resident remain the the primary owner of the property remains a resident or living on the property in the primary possum

in perpetuity. In forever yes forever. Forever. Well, not for 10 years. You said that. No, no, there's site conditions. 10 years. Site conditions. You want to the site condition that the owner that the owner of the property remain as the primary residence in the primary building. Does that make sense? No. Yeah. That no the caps and sidewalks. Oh yeah. And the conditions at the bottom of your right here. I'm sorry. Council, do you agree with that stipulation? Is that um that the owner of the property remain as transferable? Right, Rick? Because it would be transferable. Rick, I think Lisa has asked a question.

Yeah. Do you agree with that stipulation that the that this has to be an owner occupied property in perpetuity because of that line in the zoning ordinance? Can't make it into matter whether I agree or not. That's the motion before the I mean I can I can restate it. I can restate it if you want me to. I I think you should statement to uh make clarify that it remain an owner occupied residence and that the accessory structure remain clearly subordinate to an owner to the owner occupied residence. Okay, I restated that.

That's what I'm trying to say. Thank you, Rick. Uh also as part of a condition to uh of this of us approving this that the property owner will address the sidewalks, the curbs to ensure they are compliance with ADA standards and removing of the fence and the general upkeep of the property. I mean making it cleaning up the yard and fixing it so it looks like somebody looks like doesn't look like an abandoned building. Um let me see here. Yeah, I think that's it.

The hard uh so the the hardship relating to the property is unique based on the setback when compared to similar properties. It does not apply to substantial portion of the neighborhood because the other houses are not set back as far. That would be the one we would use. Rick, what do you think? You made a motion. No, that's I made You guys want me to make the motion to make the motion to the best of my So, we're setting the condition that I'm going to set you straight. Do you want me to set you straight? No. Okay, I'll second that for you, sir. No, it wasn't for me. It was for that roll call. Yes, you may. I deny such a request.

Denied. I would deny the request because I really think it's a self-created hardship and I think the additional dwelling unit changes the character of the neighborhood just by appearance of having the ADU so close to the front of the property line.

I vote not to approve. I don't think the conditions uh uh are enforcable sufficiently and I don't think uh sufficient uh proof of uh resident uh by um uh Mr. Perez uh was provided. I abstain. Thank you for your time. You made a motion. So while I just need more time to understand I can think about it. I think that's really I had two. Okay. I I mean it I don't think we have a rule on Do we have usually have to have

Okay, I will I I'll vote Rick. Just saying no under I I'll I'll I'll vote no. I changed my vote. Fortunately, the way things stupid, it's just a no. Yeah. Hey guys, I'd like to make a motion to adjourn the CBA meeting. All in favor? I I'm just saying. Should need a good reason because it's so I approve. Basically acting as a no. So we made a motion to to uh to Yes. So I don't know who seconded. I did. Second and we all approve.

Are we going dirty? We got to go.