Planning Board - Regular Meeting

So, the September meeting of the Troy Planning Board will come to order. And will you stand, please? And member Dickinson, will you lead us in the pledge? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. We'll call the roll. Member Sty here. Member Dickerson here. Member here. Member York here.

Member Kio present. All present and accounted for. So first item on the agenda tonight is adoption of the minutes from the previous meeting. Uh is has everyone had an opportunity to look at the minutes? Yes. Is there a motion with respect to the minutes? Make a motion to adopt the meeting minutes of the August 19th, 2015, 2025.

I'll second motion made and second. Any discussion? All in favor say I. I. Post say no. The motion carries. Unanimous. Uh we had a request from the applicant to extend the review period for PLPC 20250040 1819 Fifth Avenue. Uh is there any discussion on that? Require a motion. Is there a motion? I make a motion that we uh extend the period for the What was the address? 18/19 review period. 18 for 18/19 fits and extend the review period.

Thank you. Is there limit on the extension? Excuse me. Limit on extension or until the applicant's ready. Until the applicant's ready. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Uh so we did we have a second? Uh second. Yes. Thank you. Any discussion? All in favor say I.

I. Oppose say no. The mot uh motion carries unanimous. Next order of business is election of vice chairman for the planning board in the event that the chairman uh is unable to be here. So is there a motion uh or nomination for the position of vice chair of the planning board? I nominate Tony Dickens. Is there a second? Second.

Motion made second. Is there are there any other nominations for the position? If not, the chair will entertain uh a motion that uh secretary cast one ballot for the uh election of Tony Dickinson as vice chair of the planning board. So move uh do we need a motion on top of I move that Tony Dickinson be nominated for the vice chair? Well, we can't there's only one. So we could have a uh we could cast one ballot, but let's just take the vote. So uh only one nominee. So all in favor of Tony Dixon for vice chair say I. I. I.

Say no. Motion carries unanimous. Congratulations Tony. Thank you. Thank you. Look forward to working with you further. Thank you or not. Working with you further.

Thank you. Uh, all right. So, the first item of business on the uh agenda, old business is PLB PLPB 20250029 101 Second Avenue. Uh, the applicant present. Representative Yes. Hi. Okay, good evening ladies and gentlemen of the board with the environmental design partnership representing Starlight Development for a plan development plan development district uh on this parcel 101 2nd Avenue in Troy. Um at the last meeting uh this board did declare itself the lead agency for this application and since that time we have resubmitted a significant amount of information that was requested by the board and city staff.

Can you hold Can you folks hear him back there? So So can maybe if you I don't know if we can control the volume but I can hardly hear. So if you can speak up maybe

I will try. I'm usually a pretty loud speaker. Um, I want to read the list of everything that's been uh submitted to the board. Uh, we submitted revised site plans. We submitted a revised complete streets form. We submitted a revised updated environmental assessment form. We submitted a full written response to all staff comments issued in August. We re uh we submitted FEMA flood maps. We submitted a storm water pollution prevention plan. We submitted a uh urban runoff control plan. We submitted a traffic demand management plan. We submitted the original traffic study which covered uh about 60 more units than we are currently proposing. We submitted an expanded environmental assessment form, part two went through part two of the environmental assessment form and provided uh pertinent information to the study and why uh we believe that this uh project should be issued a neg. Um we submitted a draft of the proposed PBD ordinance which if voted on would become law for this site. Zoning regulations and law for this site. Uh we submitted letters from the New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation, uh archaeological avoidance plan, a data retrieval plan, and two sign off letters from the state historic preservation organization related to potential visual impacts and potential uh impacts to the artifacts. uh both of them issued uh their letter signing off that this project can proceed under the archaeological sensitivity that exists there. We also submitted copies of the architectural plans and last week I

believe all the board members had a chance to conduct a field visit at the site, walk the property uh with the applicant. I was there for one of those meetings um to walk walk around, look at it, identify where the buildings are, where the trails are, where the kayak launch would be, where uh gazeos would be, where the overlook would be. Um so, we're simply here tonight to provide the board that update and ask if the board has any questions uh related to what they saw at their site visit or any of the information that was provided uh to the board for this meeting. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Is anyone else going to present from the applicant side

at this time or at this time? No. Maybe just in response to comments. Okay. Good. Thank you. So, board questions for the applicant.

So, we haven't had the opportunity. We just got the um server uh flow information as of four days ago. So, we haven't had a real opportunity to look at that. But the question I have was there's a ravine with a permitted outflow into the Hudson River. Um, and you know, I don't know if I could figure out what was really going on or what's going to happen with that. Um, I know that's a combination of street runoff as well as some overflow from uh residences. Is that correct?

Sure. And how how is this going to uh be tying into that or how is it going to affect that outflow? Is there going to be an increase or not?

You know, per the consent order that the city of Troy is under, we cannot increase the discharge to that point from this site. So, we would not be tying into that. Uh we are doing some minor modifications and improvements um to help control some of the erosions on the bank uh extend a pipe to help protect the water man that runs underneath this ditch that's conveying the sewer overflow. But we will not be contributing additional flow to that overflow. We cannot and will not.

And we just got the report about three hours ago. So you have about four more days than we did to review it. Thank you. The transportation study that you said we have, is that the one from Kraton Manning on July 2025? That would be the traffic demand management plan. Yes. And that was to you July 28, 2025 from Kraton Manning. Say that again. It's from Kraton Manning.

Correct.

Okay. So, I've noticed that um there's discrepancies on the third page about on-site sparking parking space. They do not have accurate figures there. Um, when I looked at your site plans, you have 50 underground spaces in building A and 53 in building B. They're showing 60 and 80. Um, they're also showing 172 um, parking spaces. Um, I thought with whatever EVs you have to put in, it only came to a total of underground and above ground 265. Um, so that I don't think they had EVs included in that. They just had your nine ADAs.

EV parking is not going to change the parking count. They're still considered parking spaces, right? So, that will not change it. Um the traffic demand management plan also identifies that they believe we were overparked and as a a result of that we're able to reduce the amount of parking on the site to be consistent with what the study has and that was what you're seeing as a result in the reduction in parking in the parking garages. Okay. So the 17 will be taking off of your total count for above ground parking. 17. Well, they're suggesting 17 EVs. Why would they be taken off? They are still parking spaces.

No, what I'm saying is they're still parking spaces, but when I count 145, I was adding the 17 on because it wasn't there originally. I'm not taking it away from it's part it's part of the total. So, we had 260 [Music] uh 200 Well, we ended up we ended up with 264 total parking spaces on site with the reductions, right, resulting from the parking garage. I I was short one. I had 265. So, uh I noticed that you were putting 10 of them. Did I look correctly at your newest site plan? They're going to be in the kayak turn

for the EV stations. I would have to just verify that one second. And then it didn't say where the other seven uh I think they were going in. Um definitely not in parks.

No, no, no. I know that. I know that. So the kayak parking is the parallel spaces uh that are on the turnaround. Those 10 spaces are resident parking for the building, not for the kayak, but they are in that vicinity. Yes. Okay. So the fire trucks won't have any problems going around that they will not. Okay.

They will not. We provided turning radius plans. We got rid of there was an island in the middle um of grass. We got rid of the rid of the island and put stamped asphalt there that they can drive over so that we have some aesthetic appeal to this large area of asphalt. Okay. So, you're saying there's 10 kayak parking in that turnaround? There is. I count eight, but that doesn't mean it's four six parallel parking spaces for all right. And then 10 will be along the end of the building in that space.

And then there are seven additional spaces in front of building A Okay. And I noticed that you have 60 bike short-term bike parking. Um I believe Kraton Manning suggested 63. Um we can increase that. Okay. And meet that demand. You have a couple of spaces under your building where you're going to have long-term bike parking. And it is suggested that you have 70 of those. Are those two spaces big enough for 70 bikes to be locked up? Yes, they will be. They will be. It look kind of small, but you know,

we we can verify that. But they are they're not going to be independent lockers for the bikes. They are going to be a room for bike storage and you will still be locking your bike in that storage room. So you maybe have like outside where you have where you can put your wheel that you could lock it in something like that. Be covered long-term bike park. Um, [Music] does anybody else have questions? Because I have questions on the architecture.

I I I have one. Um, and maybe you guys did submit this information. I I haven't seen it, but uh was there a light impact study or lighting impact study done? Um, I'm just curious uh sheet uh one of two and two or two. They should be attached to the last two pages of drawing set. That is a foot candle analysis on site showing that we are not um spilling light off of the property. [Music] Down lights, right? All lights are dark sky compliant. Yes. Lighting. Down lights.

Okay. [Music] Are there are there uh timers or motion sensors or dimmer or anything on on any of this lighting?

Um I don't believe they're motion sensor. I think they are on but they are going to be light sensitive. So they they will be they will have phototric cells to identify when the lights go down they turn on. And many of the LED pictures nowadays have auto dimming. I've uh okay let's talk about again you may have this may be in the report but um since we didn't have a lot of time to look at this um let's talk about the building itself and um are we incorporating uh green roofs energy efficient systems anything so the building itself will be an Energy Star compliant uh building under New York State building code there are rooftop terraces associated on the buildings, but there are no green roofs.

Jeff, you done? Go ahead. Uh yeah, I don't I Yeah, go. I'll come back. Yeah. Okay. I'm looking at your um plans for your apartments. Mhm.

And I've noticed that in the basement you have six above ground apartments. Three of them with balconies, three of them with studios. So will that constitute a fifth floor? Because that means that some of your underground parking is above ground, not below ground. So, what we have easier to see on our site on our building, we're talking the T-shaped building. Yes. So, the parking garage was essentially the first floor of the building, the basement level of the building. We find as we have the projection that extends north towards the river, and we're working with the grading in that area to preserve as much of the mature vegetation as physically possible. um that we do end up exposing that garage or basement area on that first floor which would extend it um

which extends it out towards the river. So we have now grading come down so the garage is underground the grading tapers down for that first appendage that that that that port that's sticking out and we have ground level units in that location. What we have done is there are there are only three stories on that portion of the building. We have the six units in the garage and then we extend it up with three more stories of residential and then there is a uh outdoor terrace, outdoor rooftop terrace associated with that end of the building. Okay. So these are incorrect because they all show four stories for apartments. uh that detail

you have on building a first floor, second and third floor are the same apartment sizes and fourth floor. So look at the fourth floor right here. We identify it as a rooftop terrace. This is not a unit. That's a rooftop terrace top of those buildings. So it is four stories facing the river. So your basement isn't your basement apartments isn't going to be considered basement level that's going to be exposed. So that's still not going to make it five floors. I'm confused.

So we have the basement level. It has six units in the basement level. Right above that, those basement level units, there are only three additional stories of units. To get to the additional units, we step them back and now they are four stories or the parking garage. So I guess like this is the basement. So we're talking about basement. You're excavating how deep for this basement or it varies. Is it a garden level? You know, are we saying it's a half basement? It is an exposed walk out at

this end of the building. It is exposed and we have a retaining wall running around the building in this location. So, this puts the basement level underground. This degrade drops out around it and this is exposed in this area. This is not exposed of the remainder of the building. So is is your question that that far end creates a a building of five stories instead of four. First floor, second floor, third floor, fourth floor and that's and this part is and that is above ground because it's it's got balconies on it. How is that? I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying.

Well, you're calling it the basement floor, but it's above ground. Not all of it. the the basement other than this portion of the building I know but that is below grade or is below grade this portion of the building is accurate is accurate so how many floors are above that unit with a rooftop terrace this is all four story over the garage this does not have units that's our rooftop terrace It is all one built. So this is this part. So the

the rest of that unit has another floor above the rooftop top terrace, right? No. The rooftop terrace is the roof. Is it the high that the highest point of the building? That's the highest point from the adjacent grade. No. How is it the highest point on the building? The highest point on the building would be those other would be back here. But this is only But if you if you get on the top floor at the topmost point of this building, how many floors down is it? It is four stories of residential over the parking garage. And the parking garage is all underground. Yes. Is it all one building? It is all one building.

The two buildings all one building. Yeah. Okay. So part of the building has basement apartments, correct? which are at grade. which are at grade. At grade and then directly over that there are three floors. Correct. Yeah. But the building itself tops out at four floors above those apartments though it's not directly above those apartments. Correct. Correct. Okay. Correct. How did you have one? This is under six apartments are there.

Are you planning any step back on the top level? Is there any step back on the Yes, that's going to be the rooftop terrace. You're going to be able All the residents of that community are going to be able to go out to the fourth floor. Is that the riverside? That's the riverside. There's a rooftop terrace facing the river, which we thought was a great amenity and promoted by the city of Troy in almost every project. Now, how deep is the terrace? More than 10 ft. 60 ft. 60 ft. Yeah. [Music] So, to have um asking our engineer Chris.

Yeah. If they were they're building on the river, there's supposed to be a 10- foot setback on anything from the fourth floor up. So, does that mean how far back from the river do they have to be in order for them to not have that 10 foot set back on top of the building? because they're only showing it on the T section, which is the section that's going to be closest to the river where they have this fourth floor terrace. So, is any other part of this building or the other building have to have a 10-ft setback on their fourth floor?

That is a zoning question that we are looking into and we will discuss further with the applicant. I mean, we've we've I don't have a definitive answer for you right now. Okay. So, if

if they get a if they get a PDD and they don't go to zoning first, does that does that automatically give them whatever they want to do without having that 10-ft setback? So, this is a a waterfront overlay requirement. And if it is applicable, and I'm not saying it is or isn't, um it probably would require a zoning variance.

Okay? So, even if they got a PDD, they would still have to have that 10- foot setback if it's applicable. So, it would probably require if they don't have the 10- foot step back. Uh, if it is applicable, it probably would require a zoning variance at some point. It's our position that based on the legislation, how it's written for the PDD, um, the PDD legislation that gets enacted by the the city council, um, essentially overrides that. the city council will create the bulk dimensional requirements um for the project. Yeah.

All right. So, that's that's up for debate, but that's your position. Talking about the PDD. Um you're supposed to provide us with the the development intensity guideline within the the code of the PDD. Can you explain that to me what this means? You don't know either.

I'm not I'm not sure what the intensity is. My understanding is that provides all the dimensional and bulk requirements which are legislation for this project. So if an intensity is identified the number of units divided by the number of acres. So you have 11 acres. Is that correct? Uh 12. So how much of the property is in the city of Troy? Probably around 11 and a half. 11 and a half acres. Not in the city of Troy. You've got one acre at SKO. Correct.

I don't think it's quite an acre, but I I see if I can find I don't know that we have it called out. Have you looked at u the city code 10 acres 10 acres in the city and you have 175 units correct? Okay. So correct me if I'm wrong. 17 and a half per acre. How does that apply to

the plant the PDD under code uh 285-57? And there isn't there a density issue here for a PDD. How many residential units can you have per acre under a PDD? I don't know that in the new code. I don't think there is a limitation. I believe that might be from the old one. You could get back to us on that. Yeah, I I think you're referring to the old code that was overwritten in 2023. Okay. Um I'll definitely check. What was this citation again?

It's uh 285-57. So that was the city code uh for planned developments. I don't know if they've gotten rid of that. If there's a change, let us know. So there's Well, I'll I'll talk to you afterwards about that. Okay. Yeah. I mean, we'll look at it. City code. gota be quoting the right sectioning old section. Right. Right. And that's what I'm thinking this might be because there's not a density. Yeah. If if that came from e-codes, that's the old. [Music]

Okay. What else do we have going on? I'll go with one. I Your original submission said there'd be no excavation. Now you're acknowledging there will be excavation. Is that correct? Our original our original submission there was a misunderstanding in the environmental assessment.

There was a a misunderstanding in the environmental assessment form. Um, we thought it only pertained to commercial and light industrial projects. We said not applicable. Um, however, there's always a grading plan and we've always represented there is excavation and removal of material from the property. Yeah. So, do you um do you know the volume of that material that'll be excavated? Had that number at the last meeting. I think this question was asked. 37,000 cubic yards in that range. 30 35 37,000. And so, uh, where is that going to go?

It's going to go to a, uh, quarry site that the appropriate permitting from the DEC to accept the spoils of Earth. But you have to get permit from the DEC to do it. Also, the quarry itself has the permit. So, they can openly take F from this site, place it at this.

And where is that query? So, under the min land reclamation use law, um there's what's commonly referred to as mining and native construction, which is an exemption. Um so, typically under the the mining law, if you take 750 cubic yards or 1,000 tons in a year, you have to apply for a mining permit. However, if you are excavating this material pursuant to an approved site plan um for something like this, you are exempt from the mining law. So, you'll need a mining permit. I I believe that's where the question is going. Um if not, sorry for the tangent. What procedures do you plan on using to remove the shell

material? Uh it's mostly rock. It's currently proposed for uh ripping and excavation. Um esavators with a ripper, maybe a hammer on a esavator. We are not proposing blasting. No. Any use of uh hammer drills? Uh I'd have to ask. I don't know the answer to that. We should know that. We should know the answer to that next time. Sure. What happens? Uh, you don't foresee the possibility that you're not going to be able to accomplish this without blasting. It not my understanding.

Yeah. Our understanding is we've talked to the excavator that did a significant amount of earth moving associated with the Hannerford Plaza. Uh, that was all rip ripable shell. No blasting was required to excavate and develop the Hanner Plaza.

Uh another sort of a cultural and historical question along those lines though. Uh let's say uh in this process of of removing materials uh you discover any u materials that um might be significant um you know to to people that are uh sort of opposed to this project. What what's your plan for preservation or or or interpretation of of the materials? What are you going to do with them? So, as part of our data part of our data retrieval plan, um that's been approved by New York State and the Office of Historic Preservation, um there will be uh archaeologists on site during the excavation, uh recording what is found within the work areas and taking those findings and putting in them in the appropriate repository uh for any artifacts that are encountered.

I know this might be redundant. I I don't remember but just uh was there an an independent archeological review done on the site for indigenous or historic uh yes

materials? I would like to say the answer to that is yes. Tarkin Archaeology did a study that was then submitted to the New York State Office of Parks, Recreation, and Historic Preservation who reviewed it in uh collaboration with the the tribal nations and other agencies of the state to ultimately issue the two letters that you have in front of you that identify no impact. So, the gentleman that was here from Harkin last month, did he say that he was going to be doing a little bit more digging at this site before you start or is that completely done? There's going to

Yeah, that's part of the phase three uh data retrieval. So, the archaeologists will go out there and they will do the the recovery of anything that's significant of value. Um, and then I think you asked a question about repository. Um, I think you were absent the meeting. We talked about that. Um, so, uh, there's a couple ways to do it. Um, we've offered to give it to, um, if the if the Stockbridge Muny want it, we offer to give it to them. Um, if not, we offer to give it to the state museum. Um, typically it goes to the state museum. So, whoever has preference. Was that communicated to the Stockbridge Muny folks?

Yes. And based on conversations with our archaeologist, um he said that they may not have um space in their repository for an entire curation. So, um I don't think it's clear as to where it's going yet, but it'll either be state museum or to the Stockbridge or it will be either what state museum or the Stockbridge month my do the Stockbridge in um have place for it or a way to accommodate it.

It's it's my understanding they they have space um but from our discussions with our archaeologist um it's not clear if they how much space they have or how much they're they want to take. Um, but obviously our first you I guess we could call it something like a first of uh first right of refusal would go to the Stockbridgeidge Monzy. So, and if if neither of the Stockbridge month myies or the state wants it, what do we do? Throw it out? No. No. Um, that is a Justin question which I'll have to get an answer to, but I'm sure there's other repositories that we would ask. I don't know that the state museum has ever said no. Um, not that I've ever heard of, but I'll I'll get you an answer to that. But you said they indicated they might not have space for it, right?

That was that was the stock bridge. Okay, I got you. My question I think that was Jeff's question about the repository. My question was about the depository. Where where is that quarry that the stuff will be transferred to? I I think it's going to depend at the time as who has the biggest need. Um you know construction could be a couple years down the road. So I I don't know that we can identify it now or that we would want to say it's going to go to you know facility X when in two years from now it might go to facility Y because X doesn't have the need. Well it might have relevance for construction traffic for instance. So I think we have we at least if we could know the options we can identify some places where it might go.

Yeah. want to tell us about the protective measures that you have in place for the sensitive uh artifacts sensitive areas. Um I know like during construction you're going to fence off sensitive areas uh the northern locust tree and western locus for uh mark the zones as environmentally sensitive areas with no access to preserve that to preserve those areas. Um and then I believe post uh post construction you guys are going to put uh geoexile fabric over cover everything remove all the lightly remove all the vegetation put down uh geoexile fabric top soil everything and then I think the endgame is uh vital restrictions or easements prohibiting future ground disturbance without shipos approval

right sounds exactly what we're doing so Okay. Correct. Um research is re-recorded for city and county clerks. So that is correct. You've taken it taken it by ways. Yeah. We have in order to get the sign off from the state agency all all that stuff has to be in place and very detailed and specifically spelled out. Can you tell us a little bit about uh storm water where the storm water's going where the sewer is going? uh sanitary is going. Uh yeah, certainly. So uh we we just got the report today from the city and CDM Smith.

Um and there will be some mitigation measures that are necessary to deal with that cso uh issue that the city has. Right now, the sanitary sewer is connected into the uh existing sanitary sewer within the streets. Two laterals servicing the building. The the storm water, there are some storm water management areas on site. There'll be a full erosion and erosion and sediment control plan implemented throughout the construction and ultimately uh storm water will discharge uh to the Hudson River as this is a a first order stream. So we are compliant our plan as proposed is compliant with the DEC standards for a site an impervious area storm water runoff at this location.

So your storm your your storm water is going to be controlled on site. Uh you're going to have builders builders and um going into the road. Yes, there there is uh on-site controls. Uh there is filter strips. There is um there's a hydrodnamic separators. Yes. Like five of them. Yes. All these things that are set to filter the water before it is discharged. And that's all post uh post construction. You guys are not dumping any storm water into the into the sewer system. Correct.

So there will be no sewer overflow going through that. Not associated with our project. We cannot increase the sewer overflow going to that location. Okay. You did say when we did our site visit that you were going to extend that pipe further into the culvert to uh did you not?

Yeah. So what what's happening? Um, in the ditch there's a sewer pipe that discharges. Below that sewer pipe is the water line that runs underneath the open ditch. What we are going to do um to help control the erosion. I think everyone that was out there saw all the erosion that's occurring over top of a significant water man that crosses the Hudson River. We are going to extend that pipe so it's now over top of the water man. No erosion can occur over top of that water bank, further protecting the portable water supply from the overflow sewer and protect the stream banks from the erosion.

All right. And what did you tell us? That extension would be about 30 feet. Did you say 30 feet? I thought I said 30 feet. It's on the plan. I don't Do you know how blurry my eyes are looking at your plans on my computer? Oh, shut up. [Music] 60 to 40 ft in front of that sewer of water man. We get it extended at least 30 to 40 to get it over top of the water man go beyond that.

So is that is that a water man and the ravine all the on the easement? I mean, who controls that? Is that your property? The water man is your property. Water man is our property and there's an easement over the property water. So, the water man is not your property. On our property, huh? Yes, there's an there's an ement. Yeah, we don't own it. We own the land. We don't own the water. Okay. So, it's a city city ement. It's a It is a city easement. Uh it actually runs also to the benefit of Waterford and Half Moon. Okay. That's ins.

Can we just revisit the traffic stuff that Tony was talking about a little earlier? So, um, you did recently did a traffic demand management study, right? Yep. That was that was based upon partly based upon a 2021 traffic study. Is that correct? Yeah, there there was a 21 traffic study for about 230 units. I'm sure there is some references in there to basic background information.

Well, I think they were using the the data from that 2021 study too. So, and you know that at that time there was a highway close and it was during COVID. So those numbers probably not reliable for today's project. We are in the process. Um we waited until school was in session to make sure we're covering school traffic in this area. So additional traffic counts and and data is being collected at this point in time. Will that go into a new TDMP?

It'll it won't be it'll be an updated traffic impact study. And if there are revisions required to the TDMP, um they will either be updated or a me a supplemental memo will be provided. We will make that decision that that the traffic study is going to warrant a new PDMP. The

great Manning will be looking at it. If there's conflicting information that needs to change or significantly change, they will make that call. Okay. So the the previous traffic demand management plan which I guess you have just updated was uh reviewed by a city engineer and uh previously and uh one of the critiques was that it is estimated that 75% of well the first critique was that the traffic counts uh may not be uh reliable because they were taken during the height of COVID and when Horny Road was closed. So some of the traffic that would normally use that second avenue was not there. So you say you're updating that. Are the other critique was that uh 75% of the site traffic will use the intersection at 126th Street and that um traffic counts and analysis for this intersection should be included. Will you be doing that?

Yeah, I've got to look at that. I I'm not familiar with what you're reading. This is a a letter from 2021 for a different project.

This is this is a letter for from 2023. It's Lebell and Associates. It is for uh a uh larger size project. But I mean I think the basic idea that the initial traffic counts were not reliable or may not be reliable uh because of the particular conditions when the study was undertaken which I do not believe has been updated yet. You say you're doing it now that school's in session. And the other the other point that you know most of the traffic would end up heading south is a fairly common sense notion you know and that that will be a bottleneck intersection there at 126th Street. So will you be doing that or not? I guess to the best of your knowledge.

We'll have to talk with Clayton Manning if that letter from the previous project can be sent to us. Um we will look at that but ultimately we would submit a traffic impact study updated uh traffic impact study and that would be reviewed by the current engineer reviewing the plans and they would provide comments and if required additional traffic work would be done. Okay. I'll I'll provide you with a copy of this if I can before you leave today. Okay. Your map, can you show me where your curb cut is? Is there one curb cut or is there two curb cuts? There are two.

Okay. I see one. It looks like one's right on the curb. entrance [Music] ft north of our property line for the first curve cut. Second curve cut is opposite seven directly is does that become a fourway intersection? It's not It doesn't align. It doesn't align correctly.

Now, the other curve cut is right on it looks like just on the other side of a a curve in the road. It's on the outside of the curve. And that's the side of the curve you want to be to provide the best sight distance available. So, did I hear um that you are providing sidewalks up to Hannerford or just on your property? Up to Hannerford. Up to Hannerford. So there's going to be sidewalks from your very northern end of your property all the way to Hanford

connecting to where the sidewalk end. [Music]

Yeah. Uh how much of this property I think you said 11 acres would remain uh undeveloped or or landscaped or are we using all of it? This is a a pretty good figure. Uh the darker areas are not going to be touched. Those are going to remain undeveloped with the existing trees and forest associated with them in the EAF which I do not have in front of me. So of the 11 acre property, the area of disturbance is 7.75. So 2.75 acres will not be touched. Green space will be 7 acres and the impervious area will be a little over three acres.

Thank you. When you look at your rendition of the uh looking at it from the river, looking at the back of the building facing the facing the river, it just looks like they can't be huge. Are you got to keep are you keeping a lot of trees along along the Yeah, there's um I think everyone that was on a sitewalk, there's some very large trees in this area. Um it is the proposal to keep all of them that are not dead or dying or a safety hazard. Yep. And create a parklike setting along the river coming down. That's why we have the trail that meanders through there connecting over here down to our our kay.

You had an opportunity to read all the staff notes on the agenda, did you? Or we did not get a staff comment letter. It's on the agenda. Did you see that or just a second? Can we Oh, sorry. Well, I think you should look at them, but some number of them we've looked at, but uh staff's indicating a ge geotechnical evaluation will be necessary. I think we had a miscommunication, me and Angie, and sending you the staff report. Apologies. Okay. Yeah, we'll send that we'll send that on over. Please do.

Yeah, I guess there's quite a few comments on it. Um, do you have do you have a elevation from the other side of the river from Waterford? We do. I do not have that in this presentation, but it is in the package that was submitted. I'd like to see that. It's in the package that was submitted. Okay. It's in the architectural plans. Those are the those are the elevations that you can't put one. I don't have it up on here. H how about uh as we start as you start to build this? So, let's talk about staging and heavy equipment and all of that stuff. How where or what is the plan for staging all of this construction and how it affects the locals?

If all of the staging will occur on the site, so there's going to be no impact to the adjacent land owners with everything being stored on site. um exactly how a contractor is going to uh say attack this site and develop it, I don't know. I don't prescribe how they are going to attack it. Um that's something we're going to have to you know work with them on uh during more of the site plan aspect of this. rest of this is the floor.

Um, I guess to follow up with that, are you guys going to I would assume you would communicate with the locals, uh, you know, times and things like that when the work is occurring. Um, because I'm I'm almost certain driving up there, uh, there's going to be a lot of issues with traffic and people's ability to move around. So,

are you planning on talking to and presenting some kind of information to notify folks when when there's heavy equipment in the in the area or potential traffic? the the standard process is there's a pre-construction meeting that occurs uh on site or in city hall with um various agencies within the city identifying when work is going to be commencing how that process is going to move forward. Uh individually um I don't know that I've seen anyone reach out to the adjacent land owners directly from the contractor to them. Um, usually and then I say usually there are uh noise ordinances in the city. We will adhere to the noise ordinance and construction will not be occurring outside outside of those prescribed times.

If if it's something you want, I I think it would be acceptable to us if you want us to like send a notice before we undertake a certain uh stage of construction. I don't see a problem with that.

Okay. Well, I was trying to call your attention to a couple of things that the staff has told us um we should require before we can make secret determination. So, I I just want to alert you to those if you haven't uh seen them. And one was the traffic management plan, a new one based on new traffic study and also um a geotechnical evaluation and report. So, those things I think we're going to require them at some point. So you may want to get on them. Do you have an objection to that or is a problem?

No, I think the geotech is something that we had a talk with uh Chris and Eric about that we haven't had a chance to yet. Um and understand the need um whether it's the code b I I guess there's confusion on our end whether it's the codebased need about steep slopes or what the concern is but um we can excuse me set up a call with Chris and Eric. Yeah, work with staff on that because we'll, you know, we'll follow their guidance, I'm sure. So, if you can work it out with them, that's fine. I'll just say one of the primary concerns would be at least an evaluation of the rock excavation and their, you know, opinion on if if it's ripable or what type of equipment should be necessary.

I think we'll also be looking at that step back provision. It's a little fuzzy to me about the how many stories we actually have here. So, you know, before we conclude this, we'd probably like to make sure how many it is. So, we'll look at that closely, more closely, too. Okay, great. Did you have an opportunity? Do you see all the uh the voluminous comments that we get from the public prior to the meeting? Do you see any of that stuff? Eric typically tries to forward them to us. Um, but I, you know, I understand Eric's out, so I don't think we received any for this meeting. Um, so when when anyone gets a chance, they can forward them to us and we can take a look, see if

Well, we're going to ask the public tonight for comments and some of them probably will be the same, but I think it'd be helpful if you did look at the they're raising, uh, they raised questions about a rare moss, rare bat population, uh, tree, a lot of concerns about the trees and the variety of trees and that kind of stuff. So, I think it'd be worthwhile looking at what their comments are because sure, we probably want to answer your response to those things at least. Yeah, we'll we'll make a submitt um and we understand there's we've done the consultations. We don't have threatened or endangered species on the on the site. So, we'll we'll respond. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Anybody else have anything?

Um I just have one more question. on the uh four fourth floor of everything, you have two gray spaces at either end of your A building and another gray space at the beginning of your T building. Are they all going to be terraces or are they just going to be flat not sure what you're referring to? I am looking at this one right here. Looking from the top down. Yeah. So on the long building, those are terraces. Okay. Because this is the only one that says terrorists. These do not say terrorists. I will have to verify that with the architect. Can you can you state that on the mic there? So, we'll have that on the record.

I will have to verify that with the architect whether or not those gray spaces are ter in fact terraces or just rooftops. Correct. Correct. Okay. Okay. All right. Anybody else? Any other questions? Um, not tonight. And I know I have a lot of questions coming up as far as the trails and stuff like that, but I think that just is going to wait for another time. Not tonight. Chair chair, I just have a clarification I'm seeking. Pardon me. I I would just like to ask a a question regarding the the EAF.

Um I think it's uh D2 little three little eyes on the FEAF. The question was uh will I'm sorry. Will a line extension within an existing district be necessary to serve the project? You answered no. If uh if the answer was yes, describe extensions or capacity expansions proposed to serve this project. Just wonder why you answered no to that. What is your

the mains on site are privately owned and operated. They are not municipal name mains being extended. So they're private everything. Your interpretation that that only refers to a municipal line extensions. Correct. Okay. Um the other item I have is uh the prior PDG did have a uh hard hard blasting restriction. Um if you are getting a geotechnical we can wait for that but I mean I just wondered whether the uh developer was still agreeable to that or not. Again as long as it's we we come back and everything says that it doesn't require it. Sure.

Okay. Have you have you done test holes yet? Yes. We know that it's it's shale at the surface and how far down? It varies depending on where you're digging on the site. There's spots where there's a few feet of top soil and there's spot that it's exposed. But but how deep is the shale? How is is there is shale the only thing you're going to have to remove? Again, our understanding based upon from the experiences at the Hannerford, it's all ripable ship. Okay. Yeah, that's right. All right. Thank you. Okay. Uh, thank you very much. That was very, very helpful. Uh, so we'll open it up to public comment.

Is there any member of the public who'd like to comment on this application? Yeah, come on down. So, um, we limit public comment to three minutes. And, um, you know, if the person before you said everything you wanted to say, you don't need to say it again. You can if you want to, but u I think it'd be more helpful for everybody here if you told us something new. So, come on. Come on down. Thank you. Just answering. Yes. doesn't say. Yes, please. Yeah, pull it. I think you can take it right out of there if it's helpful for you or or pull it to you anyways. Um, okay. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes. Okay. I have some comments. I don't necessarily need answers. Just could you You got to identify yourself for the record, please. Okay. Heidi first in cell is my name.

Thank you.

Um, and this is um based on trying to read the documented environmental assessment, but it kept crashing on the computer. It's so big. So, so first question is has the so the information may be in there but I couldn't find it. Has the developer applied to the either the the to the core of engineers for either a section 10 permit or a clean water act 404 permit if necessary and if so are the details triggering the jurisdiction described anywhere? Um and then second question is okay there's a kayak launch and I looked for design of the kayak launch I couldn't find it anywhere and the document said quote no disturbance to bottom sediments will occur but I'm thinking how do you build a kayak launch without disturbing bottom sediments and then I was questioning how do you define bottom sediments because the jurisdiction of the core of engineers is mean high water so anything below mean high water, would that be considered a bottom sediment? So, that was very confusing. I couldn't So, I look that's why I look for detailed drawings of the kayak launch design, but I couldn't find that. Um, and then, uh, page 11 and I have written down HR. Um, there's a checklist that says, are you working in and I think the first one is streams, creeks. Um, there's a little list and there's no river. There's no option to select river. So I noticed they check wetlands. Um so I was wondering why the the template document didn't have the option for them to check river and why are they checking wetlands if there was no work occurring in wetlands. So that section was confusing. Um and then the last thing I have is

um it said this is page oh I have written down four oh page 24.6 six. Um there's a wetland in the northeast corner, but has that been confirmed the delineation of this wetland been confirmed by the state, the DEEC or the core of engineers and with the buffer zone and all that stuff and I couldn't find anything about that and if they have confirmed that delineation is that document mentation in the document as well. And I think that's it.

Okay. Thank you very much. Next, please. Is there anyone else who'd like to comment?

Good evening. Jack Magguy. I sent a letter. Uh I'm an arborist and consulting arborist and I viewed the site. Um I'm also a colleague of uh one of the other letter writers who um in his letter finds uh has found the existence of an endangered uh plant on the site. So the contention of the applicant um and I'm going to quote we don't have threatened or endangered species on the site. I just like to know what that's based on because it seems to conflict with this expert who works for the DEC and is a professional in the field. Um my my expertise is in preserving trees during construction sites among some other things. And so I'm quite aware when I look at the map here, the darkest area in the map that was up the longest there is I understand it was the area that will not be disturbed whatsoever. Everything else I presume thus will be disturbed to some degree. trying to preserve mature trees on sites that have any construction activity is uh in my field known to be kind of a fool's errand. So um there

kind of a what

a fool's errand. Sorry. Um, so I think in order to to take seriously the idea that there's going to be this beautiful intact mature forest cover along the water that this path will go underneath, I think there needs to be um a tree protection plan, somebody with such expertise to to talk about well okay what kind of what trees are planning to be preserved and how Um that's basically it. Uh that's that's something that people in my field do and um it's critical to actually being able to maintain this because the people who are doing the construction don't know where tree roots are, what they consist of, how they must be treated in order to survive the process. Um I think that's about it. Thank you very much.

Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else to speak?

Yes. Janice Bell. I happen to live off of Second Avenue Extension. You need not to do this, people. You know, there's a little plot a little further south. It's called Price Chopper that's vacant and Burger King. Why don't we put this really lovely building down there? Leave the trees alone for that 11 acres because rumor has it the world is heating up. It's getting really hot and as a result, we're all cooking in the summertime. I don't know if you've noticed that, but one of the joys I've had all my life is driving down Second Avenue Extension and I get behind Hannerford and the temperature drops because there's trees there. They're wonderful. And we got somebody who wants to cut them all down to pull in an apartment. No, really. Price Chopper, that's where this apartment building needs to be because that's really ugly. The 11 acres of trees is really beautiful. So please can we beauty ugly do the right thing here folks. Thank

thank you. Is there anyone else who wants to speak?

I am uh Christian Grascos. I'm a Lancingberg resident. I reside a mile and a half south of the proposed site um on Second Avenue. I also happen to be an ISA certified arborist, studied under Jack for the last 10 years. Um, so tree care is my profession. Um, and I I look at a lot of trees in a whole variety of contexts every every working day. Um, and I can tell you that this specific area is quite special and unique, making it far more valuable, far more fragile, and prone to even even with a protection plan having disturbance that'll set things back irreversibly, irreparably. So it's it's pretty much prime real estate from an ecological point of view, which means it needs to be left alone ideally because it has certain processes already in motion that you can't quantify. You know, they can this project can plan out all the dollars and cents they're going to spend. You can't plan for the losses that would occur for any level of disturbance on this site. the amount of time it's taken for the majority of this forest to get to being where it is with these huge mature oaks spaced out. Like if you've seen any recently disturbed scrub forest regrowth, everything's tight together, real dark, it's kind of in disarray. That's far less valuable. This right here is a unique oak system. You know, the same way that we have heating and plumbing systems in our homes, this is an intact diverse biological pump. And the amount of native species that it has compared to what I've seen in the last 10 years, you can't get this this much, let's say,

bang for your buck, especially being along the Hudson, especially being close enough to the city that people might be able to enjoy it, especially from the riverside. any any watercraft folks here would know that once you get north of the Waterford Bridge, things quiet down. I think this would drastically change the feel of um that approach. So, um I'll be brief. The um I think there probably is space for this project, but not on this site. There's far easier to prep sites where I'm sure plenty of strings could be pulled to get you riverfront access in a place like South Troy in a place where there's already flat land and no forest. Um especially being in a city built on this kind of innovation. That's also a strong point I want to make. if it was a special project that was touting some innovative building practices and ecologically sensitive um systems to put in place, I might consider it. But if it's going to be cookie cutter, it deserves a cookie cutter piece of land that's already flat and doesn't need to be leveled and destroyed. Thanks.

Thank you. Next, please. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? Hi, my name is Daryus Silverman. I live in South Troy. So, uh, right near many of those vacant lots that that gentleman just mentioned that put in 500 units, a thousand, bring those people down there. We got roads for them already and there's no trees to cut down. Um, so support for that. Uh but uh I'm a farmer for 15 years and um uh since moving to Troy 10 years ago have become a specialist in urban ecology and I am just interested to know considering all the benefits the gentleman before me just spoke about um how the loss of this habitat will impact me living in South Troy by eliminating habitat for things like birds of prey that help us keep our rodent populations here in the city of Troy down. I know that's important for a lot of people. um and having migratory pathways on riverfronts are going to be a prime way that we're able to keep many of those species here in the city. So, I would just like to know if the developers have considered the impacts that not just the people living right around the space, but the overall impact that the rest of us will um experience, especially considering the number of unique species that may be on this property, as some folks before just mentioned. So, thank you for your time today. I appreciate it. And I hope that you consider all of these things that impact not just this land but all of us here in the city.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? [Music] Good evening. Good evening.

All right. Got a bit of a cold, so let me know if you can't hear me. Um, I appreciate the opportunity to speak tonight. My name is Jessica Bennett. I live at 109 Second Avenue. I'm right next to this site. I look out every morning and every night. We've had a beautiful full moon recently. Watching it over this land has been incredibly special. I'm really glad that you all got to do a sitewalk so you can see how unique this land is in all of Troy. You will never ever have a project like this, not the apartment complex, but this site like this ever in front of you again. Um I am the Bennett in Bennett v. Troy City Hall. Um, I brought a lawsuit on behalf of the community, but I was the property owner withstanding uh challenging the city of Troy, the negative declaration that was issued as well as the zoning change. The decision ruled, and I'm going to quote here uh briefly, that the city failed to take the necessary hard look at the significant environmental impact expected from the project by issuing a negative declaration. The court cited already um as the adverse environmental impact the criteria of the positive declaration really being that there is just one significant environmental impact. That's the question in front of us right now. Is there an adverse environmental significant impact and the court cited the archaeology but that is not the only one. They only had to site one in their decision. Um I'm concerned that this process is front-loading studies and what I mean by that is asking for studies before the determination of significance uh which is not in the spirit of seeker. The positive declaration is to make the studies. We don't need answers. We don't need um fully fleshed out arguments for a positive declaration. We need to identify what else needs to be studied. Um, I'm concerned that this process is going down the same path as before when the city council front-loaded the

studies instead of issuing a positive declaration after quite literally 60 hours of public comment many many experts in their field not just neighbors who didn't want this to happen um uh putting on the record which was then used by the courts to justify overturning the negative declaration. Um there are numerous environmental impacts that have been submitted. I know certainly for this meeting but certainly before um we've had wonderful speaker professional arborists speaking to the need for a tree survey. Um uh preeminent bat scientists in their field uh submitting a bat survey. Ecologists and rare species reports which sure may um be at odds with what the developer has submitted as far as there are no uh rare species. But right there perhaps we've got some conflict that might uh need to be studied as well as the effects of climate change on this project which as this project goes forward uh in front of the DEEC will be held up to uh climate change uh the climate change and resilient act and we're not really seeing a ton of that reflected uh in the EAF. Um we don't need to have all the uh answers to justify a pause. We just need to identify one significant environmental impact and it's to point to one thing that we need to study. We have plenty we have plenty of significant environmental impacts that will stand up to future litigation if necessary. And that is not my goal. I can imagine that the planning board is really in a rock and a hard place here um in between uh uh potential litigation by the applicant or potential litigation by the opposition. However, the opposition already has legal victory and it clearly directs that should this project ever go forward again, the preparation of an EIS or environmental impact statement and issuance of a positive declaration is already part of the record. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Welcome. Evening everybody. Stephen Naples, Second Street.

Um, I'm going to just add one other uh thing to what Jess said uh just just now. Um, very wisely. Um I'll also just add in that you know there just one single thing that is significant is is enough to to declare a pause. Um but I'm quoting directly from uh the seeker law changes in two or more elements no one of which has a significant impact on the environment but would considered together result in substantial adverse impact on the environment um or basically the cumulative effect. So it we don't even actually have to find one to be significant, but just simply when you add them together, there's a that creates significance. So I'll just point that that's in part of our our deliberation in your deliberations in in determining significance that should play a role. Thank you.

Yes. Thank you. Hello, my name is Rachel Carter. I'm a neighbor of the project on second a um and at the the last meeting um it was when you were voting on whether or not to become lead agency. um the issue was raised that one of the involved parties had objected to that um declaration and on requesting that information from the planning department um the objection came from the stockbridge my so I think it's disingenuous for the developer to say that they have their approval for this whole process because in their letter to the planning department they very clearly stated that they have a lot of objections to to the archaeology plan as proposed. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who' like to speak?

Good evening everyone. My name is Arthur Wang for the record. Uh first of all, I'd like to say that it was mentioned one or two times that uh the planning board itself only got certain information that was seemed quite important about 4 days before our meeting tonight. And as far as I'm aware, a good friend of mine, Janet A. Null did write an email to the planning board uh objecting to what she believed was a short notice uh of release of documents to the public and counseling the planning board uh to perhaps delay this particular hearing until a later date when everyone could have had enough time to uh fully process that information. So I would just like to point that out first. The second thing that I would like to point out is uh something that I believe would be quite u significant to the secret positive declaration which was the fact that so far our developer friends uh have not gotten a yes or no answer on whether or not they'll be using certain techniques uh for their construction and building such as hammer drills which I for one feel would be pretty significant uh as to whether or not there would be significant environmental or archaeological disturbance. And another uh significant factor that I myself found out um was that while uh the developer does site an EDP survey uh in 2021 regarding uh endangered, threatened or just rare species in their uh particular area. Uh there was a 2023 uh study performed that found at least one uh rare species of damsel fly that was spotted um very close to the uh uh

job site. Uh that being the southern spread wing and I would say that too is an additional factor in favor of a positive declaration for the seeker. Thank you very much. Thank you. Is there anyone else like to speak? Zoom. Is there anyone at home who'd like to speak? Yes,

Alec. Thank you. Yes, Alec Lynman. And I would like to reinforce the community consensus that a seeker positive declaration is the only logical conclusion on the basis of the facts presented by the developer. For example, as we heard today, about a third of this undisturbed forested site will be paved over or built upon with imperous surfaces and 70% of the site will be disturbed. That is in no universe an insignificant impact on the environmental state of the site. Furthermore, this is a straightforward logical conclusion. If there are archaeological resources, if there are mature trees and ecological systems, disturbing those can't be not disturbing them, right? Those two things are not simultaneously possible. So I think it's very clear that a positive secret declaration is the only defensible choice in this situation. And finally, I would also like to highlight some inconsistencies in the copious hundreds of pages of materials that developers submitted, which I completely agree are in part an effort to uh dissuade substantive comment by overloading the public with documents. I draw your attention to page A4.2 of the progress set, aerial view from Waterford Historic District. This shows the buildings in situ on the site surrounded by a cordon of trees. Those trees in the rendering are not the trees that are physically present on the site as you

saw during your site walkthrough. And in fact, there are two significant reasons why the trees included in the rendering are misleading. The first is that they have low down foliage that is portrayed as solid and visually impenetrable. As you saw that oak grove along the waterfront has a very high upper story and clear understory through which sight lines to the building footprint are open. Secondly, the trees are shown in the rendering with leaves on them. The trees on the site are not evergreen and therefore at the time the photograph was taken as shown by all of the other trees, there shouldn't be any leaves on those trees in the renderings. Therefore, making the visual impact of the development much more substantial than is presently captured in the rendering by the developer. Therefore, something at least erroneous, potentially misleading. So, in summary, I request that you issue a positive declaration and proceed from that point with the required studies. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Is there anyone else uh at home who would like to speak? Okay. All right. So, uh I think we'll give the applicant an opportunity to respond to any of those that things that you want to if you want to.

I don't think we need to respond to anything other than um I there was a comment about a late submitt. I think that was referring to the sewer study. We haven't It's been weeks since we submitted anything. Um, but other than that, no, I think what some of the staff or some of the members here said that they have only seen it for 4 days or something, but that that has nothing to do with its availability. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you.

Thanks. All right. So, uh, thank you folks for your interest in this and we'll go on to the next item on the agenda. [Music] PLPC 2025002 604 7th Avenue Lancing Fields.

Good evening to the board. Brick's gone now. Just give me one second. I'm going to pull some stuff up and I believe motion council stepped out. So you're here for public hearing and for seeker determination.

Yeah, I believe we are doing public hearing seeker and potential subdivision approval. [Music] Say, am I allowed to share my screen? Angie. Angie, am I allowed to share my screen? Oh, I think I got it. Yep,

I got it. [Music] Should I wait for council? Yes. Okay. Yes. Wasn't public hearing public? No. Chris, should we wait for Rick? Yeah. Is he Did he indicate he's coming back or Yeah. Yeah. He went to print out that uh thing for the last applicant, but I think uh we can go ahead.

They can progress with the presentation. Yeah, he's a quick I'm pretty familiar with this project, so Okay. Yeah. Thank you. All right. You can go ahead. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Uh my name is Joseph Perachero. I'm here with the applicant. Um, I'm joined, I believe, still by Zoom by Elizabeth Young Jojo. Yes, I'm here.

Um, we work for Reverend Development Partners. Our office is down the street. Um, we are here tonight for 604 7th AB, which is the old Kathkai football field. You may recall I was before this board, I think once or twice before. Um, it's been quite a few months. We had to work with the zoning board. Um, and I'll recap all of that in my presentation. Um, but I think we've finally come to a point where I'm I'm ready to be back before you all tonight. So, just to bring you back up to speed and refresh you, this is the old Kathy Central High School field that we're talking about. Um, right there on 7th A in Lancingburg, a quick description of the zoning in the neighborhood. Um, what we are proposing is a subdivision of the 5 1/2 acre lot into 14 lots. Um, which would then be for future development of 12 single family town houses along 7th A. As I mentioned, this is the old football field. Um, we completed the redevelopment of the school and the gym uh earlier this year, end of last year into 98 apartments. Um, I'm also happy to report, not related to this project, that we are almost fully leased there. I think we have two left. Um, so we're very pleased with how that project turned out. Uh, most of the field will remain as one parcel untouched and the new parking lot will remain part of the gym parcel. I'll show you all that in a second. And then we obtain the necessary zoning variances that we are required um at the March 7th ZBA meeting um in order to complete the subdivision as shown. So I believe you have this my markup is the colors and the red lines to help visualize it.

All of the white up top that is the existing gym and parking lot that all remains one large parcel that's already completed. Um that includes the back there of the wooded section. Um the large green parcel that is the rest of the football field that also stays one parcel with frontage on 115th. Uh after several meetings with the ZBA and public comment, we added an alley in the back that'll be dedicated um to the city eventually. Um this is for a couple things after public comment for trash pickup, emergency vehicles. Uh the city of Troy fire department provided us with their turn radius which our engineer then that's why that big turnaround there at the end so fire trucks can turn around um and then

and that's where the trash is going to be also correct. So trash pickup will be in the rear as well. We didn't want trash pickup in the front seven. Yep. But be will it be in that turnaround area or each lot will have its own trash? Each lot will just set their just like they do in the rest of the city. Set their trash out by the alley. Trash truck will pick it up. So we have the city trash. city trash. Yep. Um and then the 12 new homes there along 7th A. So is all your parking on street? That's correct. Yep. Yeah. We you may remember we originally had driveways in front public comment and ZBA has to take those out because it's not really required um for single family homes here. You're allowed to use street parking. So that's kind of where we landed.

How wide are those lots? the the residential uh they vary um between about 25 feet and 40 feet. Minimum of 25. Yep. It may be 23. Sorry. Some of the smaller ones maybe 23. I don't have I could pull that up. Um, and I should note also the lots are big enough where down the road the future owner of these homes or lots um could apply for their own permits to put a parking off the alley in the back kind of like other Lancingburg homes have you know small parking area on their own lot. And and how many stories are the are the homes? Two. All the future homes um are two stories. Uh they are three beded, one and a half bath and not likely to become two family homes like every place else.

No, I don't think you could do that with our layout. All the bedrooms are upstairs and Yeah. No. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Um I think that is it. Oh, a couple zoning updates. As I've mentioned, we had three meetings with the ZBA back and forth on the size of the lots, the alleys. Um, we work with city engineer uh I'd say pretty well by now al along with DPU and the fire department um on the alley grading storm water and sanitary which some of those items are still on resolve but I think we have a good path forward that's why we're here tonight um at this time we're only seeking approval of the subdivision all the single family homes the plans for those will have to be submitted building department um be reviewed then a couple photos for you Top left is the field looking from the north and then the bottom right is just along seventh a looking back towards the woods. Top left is from the south looking back towards the gym. And then the bottom right is a similar photo. Um happy to answer any questions. You know these homes will be um you know I think a good position for the neighborhood down the road once we are ready to build them. Um it'll be for single family, first-time homeowners, you know, owner occupied. Um that is the target here.

Questions for the applicant.

Explain to us what anou is. It's a memorandum of understanding. It's basically a letter that we sign that says we understand we can't do X before Y happens. Um, it's got to do with the sewer, correct? Yeah, we Go ahead, Andrew. [Music] Um, have any idea what we need to do? Is are you guys having issues down there? So, we haven't Chris can speak to this probably more than I can. Could you see if your mic's on? No. know something [Music] test. Can you hear me back there?

They can hear you right now. We good? Yeah. Yeah, I'll I'll speak to that. So, they submitted their sore flow and storm water information.

We had it reviewed by a third party. It looks as things are laid out now. there would be an increase to the combined sewer overflow which is not allowed anywhere within the city. So the standard procedure here is we work with the developer. So they either essentially end up doing what we call an offset project where they decrease the amount of storm water going to the combined sewer so that their increase in sanitary no longer causes a combined sewer overflow. Now, this offset project could likely be within the city right away as a separate project like up in a city street essentially unless the applicant finds a way to utilize their other properties to alleviate the required amount of storm water

their storm water. So, this is sort of a a moving target as we work out this offset project with the applicant. So, nothing happens until that's settled. Correct. near agreeable with theou. Yes, absolutely. Y yeah, the goal is to kind of deal with Chris and work with him on that, but really just kind of hopefully check this box on the subdivision and and keep that process moving forward. That's our goal. Okay, thank you. Uh board, any questions? Just have one one question. Terra, is the uh turnaround on the uh Alley Fire Department compliant?

Yes. Yep. They're the ones who supplied us with the turnaround radius and we gave that to our civil engineer and he spitted this. We'll cover this back up. They'll probably want to look at it on the on the drawing to the fire department. Correct. And when we submit our building permit application, I believe the fire department reviews that. Um, also there was a condition to our zoning variances that the fire department had to sign off on final construction of the alleyway. So, that's already kind of baked into that. Okay. All right. Thank you. Anybody else? All right. So, we open that up for public hearing. Thank you. And is there anyone here to comment on this application? Yes. Come on forward, please. No. I think he said no.

No. Okay. Is there anybody at home who wants to comment? If not, we'll close the public hearing and open it up to further board discussion. So before us I think would be uh secret determination then uh subdivision approval. [Music] Yeah. Is there a secret motion? I would make a motion that the uh seeker designation be negative. Negative deck. Yeah. Negative deck. Okay. Second. I'll second that. Discussion on the motion. All in favor say I. I.

Oppose say no. Motion carries and unanimous. Uh, next item to consider is approval of the subdivision application. Uh, I think staff is recommending it be contingent upon theou. So, we can include that in the motion if someone wants to make that motion. Right. I think uh that we'd like to offer a subdivision approval contingent upon the signing of an MOU uh with the offset increase in combined sewer overflow volume resulting from this project. Okay, thank you. A second. I'll second. Thank you. Discussion. All in favor say I.

I. Oppose say no. Motion carries unanimous. Thank you. Thank you all. Good luck. Have a good night. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye now.

The next item is PLPC 20240019 Eddy's Lane Residential Development. Applicant present. Anyone to speak on this project? Is there anyone here to speak on behalf of this application? No, it's here. No, they're not here. Yes, sir. So, do we table it? Motion to table. Like to move to table uh 20240019. Second. Second.

Discussion. All in favor say I. I. Oppose say no. Motion carries unanimous. Next item is PL PB 20250049 30210th Street. The applicant here.

Hello. Identify yourself for the record, please. My name is Adam Patella. I'm the architect for the project. Thank you. Um, not sure what kind of digital assets are going to be made available. Are there any? Uh, Andy, do we do you want to pull anything up to show on this project? Do we have anything available?

Is it hard to do? All right. Why don't you give Why don't you give an overview of what's going on and then we can every other meeting always been provided. So

So uh 30210th Street is the um it's kind of the two buildings across the street from the the uh newish Stewarts on Husk Street, the corner of Husk Street and 10th Street. Um it is I guess nominally two buildings but it's connected by kind of a sky bridge. So, it's been considered as one building. Uh, the building at the north of the site is a 7,000 square foot um currently, I think, CODE as an event space. And the building at the south of the space, excuse me, at the site is a um unoccupied firehouse. Uh it's about 5,000 square feet. Our application is only being considered for the 7,000 foot um current event space, but it's not going to be used as an event space anymore. Uh the applicant's proposing to open a co-working space intended to uh cater to um people with small children in their family. So to provide a space for people to co-work while also providing an opportunity for children to be able to kind of like hang and play out in a moderately supervised situation. Uh it's explicitly not a daycare. There's no drop off of children to be monitored by daycare staff or anything like that. would be uh families coming there to be able to use a co-working space, but also there's a place where they can monitor their kids while they're working at the same time. Um we architecturally there's basically no work to be done on the inside. The space is in great condition. It's fully sprinklered. Uh it's super clean. There's a number of kind of office areas already available. Um it would mostly be furniture arrangement. There's no construction planned. Uh there's no need for an increase in bathrooms or anything like that in terms of code compliance. And again, it is fully sprinklered. uh site modifications that we're proposing um uh include I think the the biggest uh I think maybe talking point or one of the talking points would be uh there's kind of a a through route from Pusk Street through the site to 10th Street and currently that ends up being used during kind of

high periods of traffic. people cut through the site. Um, and we we see that as uh potentially a harmful kind of condition, especially if children are going to be on site and families and things like that. Uh, so you can kind of see it and you can see it in the site plan too if you pull up the first sheet. Yeah, it's uh right here down in the bottom right corner where there's vehicle access. So that is um Oakwood Terrace. It's kind of like an alley situation. The paving of the alley kind of bleeds into the into the parcel. Um, which we can look at in the photos in a second, but you can see in the bottom in the middle where we've got uh raised curb. We would be proposing to eliminate the curb cut that's there uh repair the sidewalk and extend the existing fence that currently exists kind of at the corner of Oakwood Terrace um and runs uh like east west towards the firehouse. Closing the curb would also allow us to provide a few more parking spaces on site. Uh it's certainly a challenging site in terms of parking. We're proposing 14 spaces with one ADA space. Um as well as uh a new dumpster location at the north uh west corner of the site. You can see it up there. There's kind of like a kind of a grassy hill area. Um the other curb cuts would remain. There's one in front of the firehouse that's not really usable unless you're a fire truck from like the 1920s, I suppose. Uh the other vehicle access, the main access for the site would be at the northwest corner as well as there's access via Oakqua Terrace um that spills out onto Husk Street at the southeast corner as well. Um there's currently uh I think kind of unofficial non-stripe parking along Oakwood Terrace. Um given the kind of raised entrances around what we're proposing to be the shared

workspace, we would propose to put the ADA space up there. So there'd be no need to kind of deal with stairways or ramps if you were uh if you needed accessibility. Um I think that's the project in a nutshell. There's very very minor site improvements uh or rather site work to be done. There's no real changes other than the curb cut and adding striped parking spaces. I just have one comment. Um I know you have your garbage dumpster on um 10th Street. I think I would prefer it in the back. Yeah, I think

not it's not seen. I mean, you can't do that. There seems to be grass between your dot line and the building. It couldn't go in there kind of. Yeah, I uh were certainly amendable to putting the dumpster in a more preferred location. There's the the lower floor of the space is essentially like an old um this was like a butcher block company. So, it's kind of like an old factory space. So, a lot of the um let's call it building amenities kind of kind of direct themselves towards that side of the building, which is why we located the dumpster there. But I don't think we anticipate generating so much trash that we're like using a forklift to to bring trash out. So we could probably bring it up to the upstairs.

Seems to be kind of unslightly to be it on 10th Street when you can have it in the back of the building at the very north end. Yeah, there's a significant grade change between the the up uh the northeastern corner and the south southern southwestern corner of the site. Maybe if we could go over one to the next sheet. The firehouse is vacant now. Did you? Firehouse is vacant. There's no plan to use it as part of this project. There's um multiple locked doors between the two. Any plans to use it for anything?

Uh I'm not the building owner. I don't believe at this point there are plans to use it. Um certainly this tenant does not plan to extend their their kind of stay into that building. Could we go to the next to the photo of the the sheet of the photos? So you can see right here there's about a one-story gray change between the kind of uh diagonal parking, let's call it, and the lower area. So that'd be the only reason to potentially consider trash in one location or the other, just kind of bringing it from where it is in the building up to where it needs to go. But again, I don't think we're generating that much trash that's going to really be an issue. So, we're happy to locate the dumpster up there.

Yeah. I I even thought that maybe you could put it between the fence and the and the building and on the grass, you know, and Oh, all the way in the back. Yeah. So, again, the grade change um so makes it challenging. We uh there were some discrepancies. I think you'll see in the staff comments. We've since revised the site plan and I've provided additional photos as well that I don't I think we're submitted too late to get to get um your attention for this meeting. Uh but additional photos can we're happy to provide them so you can kind of fully understand the significant grade change. Um I I don't know if you said this. I I didn't hear some of the things you said. Did you How many work units are going to be in this project?

So they there's an anticipation of um the idea is that the the business would be open about 8:00 to 6:00. So you can kind of get a full day's work in if you so choose chose, but ideally um they're trying to motivate people to work there and leave before 4:00 before Huskix Street gets like super busy. Um and they anticipate in one day there would be between 10 and maybe 17 families there, not necessarily at one time, but throughout the course of the entire day. So that would be maybe two to three people per family. Um, so well I'm more it's going to be workspace, right? Yes. Do they co-work space? Yeah.

Do they have assigned workspace or it's just common workspace? Uh, I'm not fully sure of the business model but answers are coming. Yeah, I am Lydia. Um, it'll be common workspace. Uh, can you identify yourself please? in Brano Ma common workspace. So the whoever gets there first gets the best desk. Is that it? Yeah. Okay. So uh and how many people do you how do you control how many people are there at a time? Right. Do you limit the number of people that you contract with or what? Yes. And how many do you plan to contract with?

Well, we're hoping maybe like 10 to like 15 10 or 15 people at a time. I can't hear you. I'm sorry. Sorry. 10 or 15 people at a time. 10 or 15 maximum. So the so the the building itself would have an approximate occupant load of 46 to 47 people based on strict just building code math at this moment. Um I think that would actually go lower when an actual calculation was done based on the interior environment.

But again they so that would be like legally code compliant maximum number of people but they anticipate a member-based kind of system. So, it's not uh it's not a walk in off the street and just go use the space. You'd have to be a paying member to be a participant in the space. Well, I'm I'm thinking about it in terms of parking. So, how many parking spaces you have? 14. So, we're proposing 14. So, and and you have 10 to 15 occupants, but you don't think they're all be there at the same time, but they could be, right? And uh and is there going to be a exterior play area or this all going to be interior play area?

The idea is that the um the first floor is is very wide open. Again, it was kind of a manufacturing excuse me. So they won't be playing outside on the idea is there's no play areas outside. No. Okay. So and then you said it was supervised play. So who who's providing the supervision? The uh adult members of the families. So they're working and they're super on one floor and supervising the children on the other floor. I I'd say the majority of the co-working is on the the same floor as the child what's called child care area or like where the children would be playing. So it' be very similar to to co-working at your own home. It just provides kind of a better more social environment for children to be able to play with other children.

Understand? How many stories is this? Just two. It's a two-story building. The majority of the co-working would be on the lower floor and there'd be kind of administrative and maybe private breakout rooms on the upper floor. I'm sorry. Say that. What's on the upper floor? The lower floor would be the primary co-working kind of common area. And the upper floor would be kind of uh administrative areas for like maybe Lydia and a staff member or two or something like that as well as private like breakout rooms or a private meeting room if you needed that as part of your co-working. Like 3500 square feet up there. The entire building 7,000. Uh yeah. So, I'd say it's about split 5050. Um, yes.

Is there there's no other plans for that second floor except for an office space? That doesn't make sense, right? Um, also, uh, before we address that, the second floor is not the entire footprint of the building. There's, uh, I'd say at least onethird, if not half, is actually kind of open open mezzanine to below. Um, so it's not fully 3500 square feet on the top, meaning it's two stories on, right? There's kind of a double height space in the majority of the the building. In this new building is was built that way.

I think that it was originally built as uh potentially a two-story building, but it was since modified. Again, there was like heavy manufacturing happening in there. M there's kind of an excessive amount of electricity and I think it was like um gantry gantry cranes and things like that happening. So I think it was modified to be two stories or excuse me to be a double height space. Well how many people are going to be in the second floor space the administrative space and the what did you say meeting space event space? No.

Yeah. I mean I think I think it's hard to put a uh a defined number on there. I don't think I think the idea is not that you would go and work on the second floor for the entire entirety of your stay there. I think it would be you need a a place for a private meeting or to do a Zoom call or a phone call or something and you would go up there, do what you need to do and then return back to your kind of common area and get get your friend to watch the kids while you're up on the second floor. And what about uh I mean it's no different from like a playground, right? In the administrative uh function that's going to be one person or We're planning on having two people on staff. Sorry,

we're up to 17 people at least. Yeah, I mean uh 14 spaces. Yeah, but some of them are families are probably coming in one car. Yeah. Right. I don't know. Yeah, we anticipate uh the part of the idea is to cater to kind of the community on that side, let's say, of Pusk Street. So, we're anticipating walk-in traffic as well.

Okay. um as well as a um uh a relationship with the Oakwood Community Center where people who are members of that would be able to um use this space as well. So they would potentially be parked and kind of h not housed but parked and like kind of um established over at the Oakwood Community Center and they would walk from there to here. Yeah. Good. Adam, the closure of the Who's Street entrance, what's the status of your communications with DOT right now on that? No communication. Okay. Thank you.

I was I mean to be honest uh in my experience, closing a curb cut uh I did not realize required communication with the DOT as opposed to creating a new one. So, we'll we'll open up that line of communication, but I think we're also hesitant to get going on that too much before we had any sort of um understanding about if that would be something you guys are amendable to to begin with. So, have you determined that it does require DOT approval?

Uh, in the staff comments, that was a that was a comment. I don't know that we received any official communication from either the city or the the state, but we're happy to pursue it. I mean, the work itself will certainly require a highway work permit, you know, because they'll be on whose extreme just to do the work. Understand? But if you did nothing except put a fence across the entrance, I mean, if you're going to if you're going to eliminate the curb cut, whether you could leave the curb cut and block the entrance, right, without the approval or I don't know. I'm just wondering.

I I don't know the answer to that. If you did a temporary closure yet, if that would require it or not. Not Not sure. They and yeah, I mean it's reasonable to expect they might not have an issue with the with the closure, you know, at least be more amendable to it than an opening. But the city might want to curb there. Our our question where it pertains is if they do close it, how does that affect now only using the other entrance on um was it 10th 10th Street?

There's also one on Oakwood Terrace. It's like a It's kind of a ramp situation that goes down from Oakwood Terrace. So, there's still two access points to the site. Um, just one is not directly off of Husk Street. So, you would technically go on Oakwood and then into the site.

I think the staff one of the staff indicated they're concerned that whether there's there currently three then and there would only be two. Well, you're still going to increase the volume using that exit on 10th Street probably unless they all decide to use the other exit. and it's very close to Huzzac Street. So, it's I think there's a requirement to to to be away from the an intersection, right, for generally speaking or you don't like at least we don't want to increase the traffic that close to the intersection the in exit and entrance,

right? So I I I think that the current curb cut directly off of Husk Street is close enough to the access from Oakwood Terrace that effectively it's it's one entrance or one one exit ex excuse me entrance and exit to the site. Um at least that's kind of my opinion, right? They're they're like eight feet away from each other. It's not it's not like we're closing one in the middle of the site and one on, you know, completely opposite side. Um Okay. Um, I just curious, do do you have a I've never heard of someone starting this type of business. Is there a big demand out there for that or

I think Troy needs it and I feel like it would be nice to have. There's a lot of um co-working areas in Troy, but nothing that involves children and it's a demand that I personally felt like was needed here. Um, there's a lot of children in Troy, a lot of families that could use the space, right? and they would be paying rent to you or paying a fee for them to use it on a weekly basis, monthly basis, daily basis. How does that work? Um, we're thinking of monthly. We haven't fully determined all those details yet, but we're thinking monthly. Okay. [Music] Anybody else? Any questions? Just one question. Yes. Council,

I think I heard correctly, but if I didn't, please correct me. Uh did you say that you were discontinuing the uh use of the facility as an event space? Yeah, I think any mention of events on our application if there are any

I think it it was it was still in the application. That's why I'm asking. [Music] So any we don't anticip or there is no plan for public open open public events to take place in this place. If there are let's call them events it would be workshops based on membership. So member member workshops not open open public forums or things like that to be here. So no uh underground raves if that's what we're getting at. So no what? Underground raves if that's what we're getting at here. Yeah that didn't that didn't work out so well. Right. Right. Not the 90s anymore. No, they did.

They tried to recent recent events might have Yeah. So, you can see there uh I was thinking [Music] the event space be discontinued. So, it's Yeah, right there. That's got to be a tough curb cut to get in and out of there anyway, right? So, we're also again, this was previously used for kind of like light manufacturing and deliveries and things like that. This would be residential vehicles, not um yes, there might be a dumpster truck or a snow plow and things like that, but it's not it's not box trucks and um delivery trucks and things like that that would be using that. They would have to be

uh and there's plenty of space if there was a need for a delivery or something on Oakwood Terrace is a is bas I think it might be a dead end but basically it's it's uh totally usable for someone to stage a truck if they had to make deliveries. Okay. Other questions? I have one more. Yes. Go ahead. Corp council.

How were you planning on um closing that uh curb cut? So the idea the idea now would be to extend the fence and we could also extend uh you know we could we could put in a proper curb and pave as necessary up against it as well as um a fence and I think some ballards probably would be good to have on our side of the fence to keep people from accidentally driving into street. Uh we could also uh extend some landscaping if necessary, but I'm not uh you know I think that the fence would be adequate, but that would be the idea. Just want to know.

Anything further? This is a good representation of the the grade change between the the two parking areas there. [Music] So what is that? Is that the retaining wall on that hill or what is what? Yeah, it's an existing retaining wall and then there's but right behind your building it goes down to grade you're the you have space that's at grade between your building and that road that alley or does it slope up there is what I'm asking. Uh so I know it slopes from who's up. I'm asking from diagonal part.

Yeah. Yeah, that's but that that wall is not connected to your building. Is is there space between that wall? Oh, uh no, there's no space. So, the the building and the wall kind of meet together. Right. Okay. Anything else? Let's see if there any public member of the public wants to speak on this. You can have a seat. Is there anyone here to speak on this application? Is there anyone at home would like to speak?

This constitute a public hearing. No, no, it's the first meeting. So um you can can we do you can find it to be a type two seeker action? Yes. Can we declare uh and you can declare the application complete if you believe it is. So where's your seeker motion? I'd like to make a motion to confirm that this is a type two uh seeker application. Second discussion. All in favor say I. I post say no. The motion carries unanimously.

Uh so then we can consider a motion to declare the application complete. Is there a motion? I'd like to make a motion to declare the application complete. Second. I second. Motion made and seconded to declare the application complete. Is there any discussion? All in favor say I. Post say no. Uh the motion carries unanimously. Thank you. Complete considering scheduling a public hearing. But are there are there zoning variances that require? No. No. No. I didn't think so. Okay.

Motion to So you can schedule public hearing. And the date the next available date next meeting. I don't know. What do you think, Rick? I would just put it on for the next available assuming the applicant doesn't object, you be ready for the next meeting. Uh, we would love to be on the next meeting, I think. Uh, yes, we'd like to be ready for the next meeting or we'd like to be on the agenda. I don't know what the DOT situation is, but um, if not, if they're not ready, they could request an extension.

All right. We I would say we'll be ready. I just don't know uh what the DOT kind of there will be consensus from the DOT, but perhaps at the next meeting if there's no consensus from the DOT, there could be approvals with contingencies in place or something like that. Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll schedule it and if we have to extend it, we can extend it. Yeah. And I'm not I'm not explicitly saying that we would need a permit from the DOT in order for to recommend that they grant site plan approval because it's something in the public right away. Right. So, I just know we'll be ready for the next meeting. So, we'd be happy to be on the agenda. 21st. 21st. October 21st. So, October 21st is the next PP.

Okay. I'd like to make a motion to uh schedule public hearing on October 21st. I'll second discussion. All in favor say I. I. Post say no. And the motion carries unanimously. Is there any other business come before the planning board? Now we entertain a motion to adjurnn. Like to make a motion to adjurnn. Second record. I second that. Favor. Say I. I. I. Motion carries. Meeting adjourned. Jim, you're good at that motion. That might be the earliest we've uh finished. Wow.