Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay, call this meeting to order at 5:31. Sorry, we're one minute late. Uh, I will entertain a motion to approve the agenda. I second or I I motion to approve the agenda. I got it. I'll second it. Moved and seconded that we approve the agenda. Those is our discussion. All those in favor of approving the agenda say yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Seeing it none opposed. Move forward. Uh declaration of a conflict of interest. Does anyone have a conflict of interest concerning the public hearing or new business?

Voice this again. I know I've said this a hundred times, but I don't like the conflict of interest the way the city has written it. And I think all of us could potentially be have a conflict with some of these things. Like as an example, I own property in a mixeduse zone, but it's not necessarily a direct thing, but the way it's written is poor in my opinion. Will you gain personally financially from it? Yeah. So would you as a how will I Yeah, you will because your daughter has property in the commercial zone. I personally gain money from that. The way it's written is you and your personal family. Family.

It's written that way. It's got to be within your own home. No, it said immediate family. It didn't say in your house. I wish it said that. like we talked about before, it could be specified more tightly like that's exactly what it needs to be more like what the state has, which is like, hey, yeah, all you have to do is declare that you have a conflict, but these are these are it's just it's just complicated because yeah, it's possible. I don't know. I don't even know what we're going to do exactly, but I mean, all all of these zones that we're talking about is like most of the city. So, if any anything we change has a financial benefit, to you personally. Yeah.

To anyone on the city council or the planning commission, all of us have to sit down there. Just saying. So, I definitely have a conflict on some of these that I own property in and I would argue that most of us do, but it just depends on what we decide to do. Okay.

I don't have any conflicts of interest. Do I have to have an interest before I have a conflict of interest? Um, okay. Do we want to address this again in a formal setting elsewhere? Can we what? What do you mean like bring up your concerns? I think it's really nothing that we can really do here. I think the city council has to decide. I personally think I will I will accept a motion to I'll just bring it up the next meeting. Yeah, I think it's good. Well, and I think it's I'll just see if we can't clarify it a little bit tighter.

Yeah, I think it should go back to the way it was and then just put I don't but we can have that debate. I mean, just put the exception for the employees that the way it was changed for was for the employees so that they can't but you can just put if you're an employee then these rules apply. if you're not an employee then yeah and I think the lawyer said we couldn't do that and that's why we tried to find another way around that but we could have that discussion for sure yeah we should because the way I read it and the way it might actually be perceived I guess is different I don't know I'm not an attorney wish I was but yeah let's just we'll work it out

make a motion to recommend to the city council the rehashing of the declaration of conflict of interest. Well, we talked talked about it a few different times, but I'm not sure if it ever made it back to the city council or not. I mean, as an official act, I personally don't think that they know what they passed. Like, if you went and asked somebody uh what it says, I'll bet that most of them wouldn't be able to describe what it says because what you're saying and what it says are not the same. We'll discuss it in next one. Okay. Could you add Could you Jeff ask Lindsay to add that to the workshop? Thank you.

Okay, sweet. Moving on. Public comments. You have three minutes. What? Sorry, I'll look at that chair over there. You have three minutes. If you would like to speak, please come up to the podium, say your name. Um, seeing none, we'll move on. Okay. Uh, approval of the minutes September 9th, 2025. I make a motion to approve the minutes for September 9th, 2025. It's been moved. Is there a second? I'll second. It's been moved and seconded. Seconded that we approve the minutes of September 9th, 2025. All in favor say yes.

Yes. All opposed. No opposed. So, we will approve the minutes. um approval of the 2026 Planning Commission annual schedule, which we are so graciously prepared for. So, is 5:30 p.m. still a good time? That works best, I think, for for me.

Agreed. Um, looks like every month has two except December. And this is we're not as as times pass, I'm assuming we're like if there's no business or whatever, we won't have, right? We're not committing to two every month. Okay. I'll move that we approve it. It's been moved that we approve the 2026 planning commission annual schedule. Is there a second? I second it. Seconded. All in favor say yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

All opposed say no. Seeing no opposed, we approve the 2026 planning commission annual schedule. Public hearing number six to receive public input on proposed amendments to chapter 1.10 10 public facility zone districts. Chapter 1.11, Sensitive Area Zone District/Pro Protection Area Zone District. Chapter 1.12, Flood Damage Protection Overlay Zone District. Chapter 1.13, Sexually Oriented Business Overlay Zone District. Chapter 1.14 and Chapter 1.15, Water Resource Protection Overlay Zone District. Public input. Okay. Seeing I think we're going to move on uh to receive what

I guess. Did you open it and then we need to close? Yeah, then we need to close the public hearing if nobody's Okay. Yeah, that's opening it. I'm going to open that and then

if uh we're no longer interesting. Okay. Um, are we supposed to like move to close it or do I just I think you just you just have to close it just so it's clear that it doesn't keep going.

Okay, we're going to close the section A now and open section B to receive public input on proposed amendments to chapter 1.09 mixed use zone district. And we're we're going to close that one seeing none no discussion. Okay. Point seven, new business, discussion and consideration of already mentioned sections. What? I'll pull it up.

Over in the packet inputs, the chapter 1.15 special purpose overlays zones. Um, let's see here. We'll get around to it. In short, I have wanted to make room for new code that I hope to put into the zoning ordinances. Um, and the simplest way I found to make room was to just shove chapter 1.1, 1.11, 1.12, 1.13 all into 1.15 and rename it. So substantively, nothing has changed. It's just shoving five chapters into one so we could have room to build out some of our um codes like the Main Street mixed use that's coming up. Um so substantially, yeah, nothing altered. I just wanted to play copy and paste for a few for in about an hour or so and reformat it. And Mark read it well enough. He found where I missed a D

or where the person that originally typed it missed a D. So I don't really have any other presentation rather than that. As I read through it, I I did have a couple of questions but and I just have to go from memory. um in the the chart that shows the layout of all the you know permitted and conditional. Oh, that's on chapter nine. We are all that all that looked great. Okay, that's all we're talking about right now. Okay,

you're going to want to get to the next one in a little bit. So, um, I did have one question though about what kind of sexually oriented businesses would we allow in our community? So far, none. Well, we have to clarify how that's said. Technically, they're you have to allow a place for them in in your city. You can't ban them. Like, you can't ban them across. They still have to be approved, right, by the Yeah. like a brothel or something of that nature massage parlor or you know any so they just have to meet the state facility like wow yeah whatever it is

so someday they're going to come so we have we don't even have a spot where they're really zoned we just have the have to like Micah said we have to have uh regulations around what it would take to have them you can't just ban them well they areowed out in the manufacturing zone currently, right? So like over by auto leave and some of the places by the that are zone manufacturing could technically have them there. I want them by my house. You know, that's they're the ones we have are pretty ex extensive, pretty set out there. Yeah. But there is a place where they could potentially go. That's I guess the it's nice that most of us don't know about that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So perfect. Seeing any other questions? No more discussion on these. We'll move we'll close section A and move to section B. We probably need a motion. Oh, do we? Yes. Okay. So, we accept Yeah. Make a motion. And I would I will accept a motion to approve the changes and recommend the changes to be approved. Recommend the changes to the city council for approval. Doing great. I just need like a I'll get a

R that just says this is the exact verbiage. Teleprompter for No, that's not what I need. That's definitely not what I need for section A. All those in favor of I make a motion to Good. Thank you. to uh recommend approval of 6A 7 A. Oh, 7A. Approval of 7A to the city council as modified.

I second that motion. It's been moved and seconded that we recommend modifications for section 7A to the city council. All in favor say yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Opposed. Say no. The motion passes. Okay. Is Mark design? Yes, that work. And you want me to do the presentation? Yeah. or his presentation if he's Did he send it over? Okay, that was mine. Did he not send his over? Okay. What changed in this code? I didn't really see the chapter nine.

Yeah. Oh, we're about to get into it. Oh, okay. I'll just say I didn't see it. There was some high highlighted in yellow, but I wasn't sure what exactly had changed. So, Mark is online. He is one of the senior codew writers with landmark design and he's helped. So we are just presenting this tonight to help you help the planning commission members understand how to read the packet that I have printed out and put in front of each of you. Um I emailed it out as well as a one drive link. Um but this is our early morning reading. Um this is our new standard. So Mark, can you hear me? Yes. Can you hear me? Okay.

Yes. Do you have a presentation you could email over or do you want to go off? Uh can I just share it or Yeah, you can share yours. Okay. Uh should I do that now? Yeah. And am I ready to go? You are ready to go. Okay. Well, thanks. Uh let me make sure I can pull up the right thing here. Okay. Do you see the presentation now? Mhm. Yeah.

Okay. Uh well, thanks for inviting me here this evening. Just so that you're aware, I'm filling in for Sam Taylor, who you probably work with all the time and know him. He and I work closely together, especially on codew writing, and I've been involved in this project um more off than on recently, but in the beginning stages was working closely with the rest of the group. So, I'm familiar with the um the code. I didn't know that there were a lot of changes to chapter 9. So, maybe that's something that Jeff can um take over when we get to that point. And according to my discussions with Sam, maybe the best part here was just a a synopsis of the code and how it's laid out and how the planning commission and um members of the public develop developers and designers will use the code. So if you do I have 10 or 15 minutes to go through that.

Yes.

Okay. Great. So the Okay. So sorry. Okay. I think we'll start here is you know why do we need a mixed choose code? It was really in response to your recently adopting in 2023 the land use plan. There was a new vision. The vision really focused on establishing Main Street corridor as something that was very important to the city and to come up with was actually a recommendation to come up with a new code for that and other areas so that as development happens it it meets the vision. Um probably all are aware of this but the the the code is compiled of four subd districts that are shown here that together it's known as the the uh code area. It goes from west from I 84 up to close to the east boundaries of the city and these four districts respond to sort of the the surroundings and also what the vision is.

Um hey Mark what makes it diff Yes. Could you expand that? We've got half the screen showing the presentation and then the other half is your uh Oh, you don't have the full screen then. Yeah. Back. Oh, sorry. Okay. I It's getting too fancy there. One moment. How's that? Better.

Good. So, I hope everybody can see that. Um, and I I hope that everybody has a copy either accessible or you can review it later and I'm sure you will of the U. These are images straight out of the code itself. So everything that I'm showing here tonight, you'll be able to take a look at. Um, so you know, it really focuses on this new code is a different kind of coding, but it really focuses on creating the types of uses and buildings that were envisioned. Uh it focuses much more than the other codes that we have in place on design and on the the layout of buildings and the relationship to the streets and so the physical um capacities of the the the code and what what we're trying to achieve. building form, the height, other those other things, they're are much more detailed, but also the the structure of the code is that um once your staff and others get used to it, it's actually a very simple uh tool to review and go through, it doesn't have a lot of uh areas into it that you have to make a lot of decisions. It it serves well for limited staff like you have to use sort of a checklist system. I've I've operated on a few of them over the years as staff or planning advisors and it's something that uh it's something that can really work well for a smaller community. The code is uh divided into 10 chapters. So you can see here they start with we'll start with a discussion of districts that then goes into the subd districts what we kind of went over now that you have these four subd districts. We then talk about street types which is a general discussion about how streets

new streets in particular will work in uh couple of these subdists. We then go to uses. And most the other codes that you have in place focus very much on use instead of form and layout. And it's still important in here, but it's not I'd say it's not as important as some of the other chapters such as building types and the landscape standards and street types and sign types. It's um it's something that is pretty easy to determine whether something fits in or not. And if not there has a procedure for either accept changing it or accepting that and asking the applicant to move on with a different type of use. Uh so just quick summary the districts is really this is your district the entire four areas just in one. That's what we're calling our main street district and you can see how it stretches from freeway to the east. Um as part of this we are also looking at major and primary primary street secondary streets and how development will relate to those streets. So you have your main primary street is main street which is shown light blue and 4800 east larger streets uh state at least in case of main street something that's a state road or has been a state road primary street B is where they're also they're not quite as big but they have so what we're talking about is a facade priority and that means that it talks the the relationship of the building facade is uh important, increasingly important or less important. I guess it depends on the smaller streets as you move forward. We're trying to establish the sense of a street wall on many of these, meaning

that we have a consistent row or vertical presence on the street rather than, for example, a lot of parking lots first and then buildings that way far behind. Um the four subd districts are you can see here the fairgrounds. This is from west to east. I'm sorry from it isn't from west to east but it's the fairgrounds the downtown the historic downtown area suburban subd district which is the small narrow strip and then furthest to the east is the crossroad subd district. So you can see these here and fairground to the west and making your way forward. And you can see that in some cases they're extending further in north and south and in the case of the suburban really just addressing uh uses of buildings along the street frontage itself. And here you can kind of read here about what the int general intent is. Um the the fairgrounds has really tried to take this area that's very important for highway type uses and travelers and make it into something more than just um a bit having really an image of a big parking lot in the front. Whereas the downtown subd district is really trying to recognize the importance of your historic part of the city and have uses that that match with what you already have there and what you want to preserve. And suburban is really this transition district between crossroads and downtown. And then you have to the east at the end this gateway district crossroads which is on the the the the key streets the the the primary streets it's really focused on restaurants,

groceries, commercial type uses and on the other streets is u a range of housing types of uses. So you're creating a neighborhood basically. Uh the third chapter, street types. It just really describes what the configurations in the two subdists, downtown and crossroads. This is where it applies if there are new roads that are going to be included. Uh what what the expectations are and how they should be designed. Um, so this is just a general section of what we're talking about as far as the configuration of a typical street. But you can see that it doesn't just include the roadway and, you know, the the edges of the street. It it also talks a lot about the side sidewalk zones and pedestrian zones and where you might have a bike lane. There was a road that has a bike lane. So that as things change over time and you're working with perhaps you do and others and changing your roads that these things become very important for uh making modifications in the future. The uses as I mentioned are very similar to the description to what you've had for uses in your existing codes. It's uh really that let's say it's you're looking at you look at your subd district and you see what would be permitted in your subd district and permitting it has three categories. It's outright permitted. There's conditional uses or that it requires some special uh treatments. uh most of them fit into outright permitted and if but the key thing is is we rather than listing every potential

use in the world we put in uses that were more universal and then things that aren't listed. There's a set of rules here for if it's not listed, but it's similar to one that would be permitted or allowed, then it's permitted outright where if it's interpreted by the zoning administrator that it isn't, it's not permitted. And if you want to include it, then you would have to modify the zoning ordinance to include it. So, it's a it's an opportunity to have some control over uses and to have a a pretty clear-cut way of making determinations of whether um how whether a use is permitted or not. The building types in my opinion and from my experience is probably the most important chapter. It it's not you know you think oh this is all about architecture but it's much more than that. It's really talks about the forms and the relationships of buildings on individual project sites and how they relate within their site to the parking and other things but also to neighboring uses. Um, as you can see here, for each of the four subd districts, which are shown on the top part of this matrix, it shows the types of buildings that we have in in the code and they're either permitted or they're not permitted. And so, for example, fairgrounds permits large format large storefront buildings. And then if we go to the one that's talking about storefront, they're permitted in three of the forward districts. And as you see on the right hand side of your screen, this is basically for storefront building. Once you identify that it's permitted in your subd district, you go through this sort of like an engine

checklist and it breaks it down to sighting issues, height issues, uses, and the street facade and then the roof type requirements. There's also some general discussions about things that apply to all the the U building types that are at the beginning of the chapter and then others that also apply to all the building types which are more like materials and things like that. So, it's a really interesting way of laying this out. Uh we find that developers and architects once they get used to it really like this because it allows them to figure out what they can get on their property, how it fits in with their vision and how they can sort of make things work out. So it's kind becomes a bit of a an interesting puzzle for people that like doing that sort of thing. And um so I I think that's a very positive instead of having to negotiate and and come to and be sent to the drawing board multiple times. That's they come up with a concept and if it's on track they proceed down that road until they get something that m meets the requirements of the code and uh it can be approved. Um this is just some of the other um key items out of this chapter. Um you know how the building should look, how many stories they might be. Uh if you have a higher building than you might normally have, what you have to do as far as stepping it back so that you don't get shade and shadow all over and it doesn't impact on neighbors uses and stuff like that. So again, very focused on the structure and form of the buildings and the the the lots. All this space from my experience is great to have this in here. And what I really like with the way that you have done this is that you haven't added just a

kind of open space types. You've narrowed it down to three types that are appropriate for your zone here, your district. And I think that's really great because to be honest, most of the others which you know might be an open space corridor or a stream corridor, they just don't apply. And so within this district, it if and when there will be any open spaces. This these are the three general types. These are just images of what they might look like. A plaza, a pocket park, which is a small park usually under an acre and then a park. And because this is a fairly constrained area with, you know, limited space, the parks here would probably be smaller and not a, you know, not a 10 or 20 acre park possibly, but most likely it would focus on these smaller parks that might serve these this new type of development, the type of people living there better. We then have landscape standards and the key thing on this is that this chapter works hand inhand with your existing uh general landscape requirement code. So that this does not replace it. But if there is a conflict between the two, this code will what's contained in this code will trump what's in the general landscape code. So that's a good thing to remember. Right. Again, getting into more about the details of like for example your existing code really establishes water wise stuff and it's very does a very good job out of it. This one might go into greater detail of the types of plants along the street, what you want for the look of it or what type of trees more specifically might be permitted in a certain area. So, it's really more about the details and uh again that that whoever is going to put

these together and be reviewing them, they have to look at both codes as they're doing it, but it's pretty simple. Um, and then these are just the goals, you know, that we start off every chapter with goals or principles of why why this is being done and how they work in Treemont. parking. Um this is again the goals or the reason we're doing this is just to make sure that you have all the parking is adequate and we're talking about parking primarily at vehicles. There I believe a discussion about the bicycle parking if required where it's required and what the requirements would be for that but it's uh really the discussion about make sure we have adequate parking both ser this is parking on the private lots in particular uh whether it's surface parking or somebody who's like was probably not likely right now but there would be an opportunity to have uh structure parking that would also be discussed here. But we're also in this code referring other chapters that they have to take a look. We don't want to get into the situation where this code says something and then it gets other it gets updated and it doesn't match what was in the other code. So rather than doing it that you just have to make sure that you're looking at these other existing code references that deal with parking and then look at this on top of it and that that gives you a clear sense particularly about the numbers of parking the sizes of parking spaces and back out lanes and stuff like that. sign types. This is the chapter where there were some changes. Uh they apply

to all non-residential uses only and we have I believe there's eight types of signs. I just have a sample of the pedestrian scale polemounted sign uh graphics from the plan. As you'll notice this or plan code this ordinance is graphic rich. That's by intent. We want to make it very easy for designers and everybody else to understand what the intent is. We use a lot of images of of t comparable buildings or comparable situations so it's clear for people what we mean and what we're trying to achieve. And we didn't just pick those out of the hat. You know, we went through in the early stages and tried to dial in like this district, how high should we go? how how tall should it be and what should the space be between buildings? And we that was the the first few months that we really looked at this sort of calibrating the the uses to the situation that you have in uh Tmont. And then I think this is a very important chapter as well. Just like you have administrative uh u components to your existing codes typically at the beginning of your city ordinance or your municipal ordinance. We've provided the own administration for this code itself and it really clarifies the processes for approving your site plan. Uh if there's requests for exceptions and variances and just to let you know exceptions are really minor changes or modifications for the situation where you might be off by a few inches that sort of thing. It's not major changes. If a a project didn't meet them the requirements of the code without a major change that would mean

you know they would have to revise it or we would have to change the ordinance itself to accommodate that. So those those things won't be taken lightly. And then it also it it clarifies who's making the decisions at certain times if you know who on staff and and then just at the end is a discussion of terms that are used throughout the code. So if you have any question about what what is meant by something turn to the back section of chapter 10 and it will clarify all of the key phrases used throughout the the code. So with that, that's the end of my presentation. Thank you.

I wanted to introduce you guys to Mark 2 as part of this. Um cuz for our next meeting, I will be out of town, but Sam and um I believe Mark 2 will be here to start um going through and and discussing these chapters. So I wanted to get it in front of you. So you guys had two full weeks of ignoring it. uh and then he come ready to discuss it. So, thank you Mark. Okay, I'll stop sharing now. Okay. What's how's the proposal work with like the existing overlay zones? Are they going to be accepted out?

Yeah. So, we'll um that's something I haven't come to a a consensus with yet is what to do with the the Tmont overlay zone, but Well, there's multiple because we'd have like River's Edge. River's Edge is outside of this. It's not. Oh, no. The that spot on front part of it is still in the suburban part. So, that's something to We'd have River's Edge, we'd have Tree Center, and uh I don't know. There's probably some out west, too. I don't I don't know if they were done with overlays or not, but I don't know if anything out there has an overlay, but you're right, River's Edge. And

I just wondered how that was going to apply if we're going to cut them out or if we're going how that's going to work. might want to get them included in because you cut them out then you come back and have to reconfigure. Well, most of them too are already under existing development agreements or master plan communities. So, I don't think we'd have the ability to that's kind of my

overwrite them. Um, but I'd like to leave this in place so that if there was ever any not that this would is where it would start, but that if there were any large changes or something that this is the code that would apply to help try to build that continuity. Um, but I don't think it's code that we would even with it being adopted because of where those developments are with their vested rights. I don't think we'd be able to to override what currently has been master planned there. So, that's my gut. I also was going to ask if Mark's still on, where is the civic standards? It says there's a civic build type. Right. There's civic would be typically requirements for a building for city hall or something like that.

Yeah. And so there's a specific building type for that I believe. Is that correct? I haven't looked at it in Yeah. There's a building for civic building, but there's no for it. There's no what? There's no section for it.

No. So what you would do is like I said you would go through the code and you start with chapter one and see what the district and subdist and if there's any streets and when you get to use those you just make sure that the district that you're proposing a civic building to go in allows the civic building. I think that most of them do. And then what would be really important is to make sure that when you get to the building types that a civic building is um that that you follow that as you design it. So there's not I don't know what they call it. I don't have my code up here right now but uh cuz I haven't been looking at this for a while. Let me take a look. Well, it just what I had seen every every type of building has like a chapter that goes through the requirements and

right except for the civic well that's just well there is there is a civic build so it's a civic building use type and if you go to page yeah like 5.0 know, shows the building types, the civic building, and then it goes through the large storefront, the general stoop, the limited. Oh, the size seems to be missing. Uh, Jeff, so I'll talk to Sam about that. It stops at road building. Yeah, that's what Well, I think the yard building. Oh, no. Maybe the yard building's missing, too. Yard building 5.8.

Okay, I'll have to talk to Sam about that in the morning. Great catch. I don't know. I I assume, Jeff, that that's not by purpose. Is that correct? No. So, the the yard building and civic, is that what you said are missing? Yeah, yard and civic. Okay, great. Um, you probably were thinking, "What the heck's he talking?" Actually, maybe the large buildings there. 58. I think the large storefront maybe depending on I guess if it's part of if it's considered the large format.

Okay. So, that's that is a and that's not the same language. It's not called the same 34 is probably supposed to be the large storefront, but it says large format, but it's probably that. Okay. Storefront. We'll get this uh I'll I'll talk to uh Sam tomorrow. We'll get this taken care of right away and get you updated copies of the code. Then little building. But yeah, only the civic one is missing. I think

it's fine. We're not really planning for new buildings. Well, yeah, but I know, but if we're going to if we're going to put the screws to everybody else, we should put the screws to the city to meet because what we've seen, I don't know if you've noticed, but like right now, a lot of the requirements for all of us in the developer world are not adhered to by the city. Like when they put in the parking lots, they don't adhere to what the code says. They just do whatever they want to do. But we should be. And you're you're correct though that that you don't know what's going to happen in two years or a year, right? things could change dramatically.

So, it would be good to if you want to have a place for civic building in case it ever comes and that seems something that's beneficial, you should put keep it there. And otherwise, you'd have to write a whole new section and update the code if you ever wanted to put a civic building anywhere within this district. Okay. Fantastic work. Now I'm a little embarrassed. I've read this like four or five times. Never caught. I'm sure it's going to take some like applying it. Yeah,

it would be interesting to apply it to some existing projects and just see how it would change like for the worse or the better and also what the potential cost would be because I mean part of it in my gut is that you know a lot of these could be implemented without a ton of cost but if we're going to add a we're having a hard time like redeveloping the downtown as it is and to to come in and throw Oh, a hundred pages of, you know,

detailed, costly, expensive requirements for all these things. I mean, some of them are necessary, but I would just be interesting to try to see, okay, if we did like the tire shop project in this code, yeah, what would the cost differences be? And would it even be possible to build? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So, will this apply to people like businesses downtown that just want to like remodel? No. There's provisions in and as you get in and you'll see how much they'd have to change of their exterior before this would

apply. Um, and so we were trying to be sensitive to the fact that this is the first ever attempted at code like this in Tremont. And so we wanted to make sure that and I feel like we got pretty close with a border that says, okay, if you cross this, it's a substantially enough change to trigger the code. But if not, then then it's okay. But I mean, we're going to get down that as we start looking into what facade grants the rest of the RDA funding can generate. um to see what of this how costly is it to bring stuff and what's the priority list in like is it signs is it um like new exterior just on facing Main Street like what how how expensive it is it to build but I've had meetings with um uh with a commercial developer already and when we walked them through this they were just like oh we've seen stuff like this before and just they took it a lot easier than they took you DOT's feedback. So, it's one of those that I think if if we can set expectations out the gate, our like Mark said, architects and and um design professionals are are good about meeting this kind of code. it it gives them a lot of flexibility the otherwise wouldn't have and also a lot of opportunity to try to see what they could fit onto a site and be creative with it but through the code. So there's a um and that's why I think you end up typically end up with a lot better projects as far as the costs. Um I I think it's what I I'm not sure that there would be more cost other than maybe if there's more material requirements. Uh the costs would be how much parking you would need to allow your building to be maximized. And so that's where they usually start. They'll

do a site plan to figure out how many parking spaces and how many floors they can go up and down. And they kind of go back and forth and play with it. And once they've got that sort of established, that tells them their general cost tradeoffs, which is, you know, rentable floor space or commercial floor space to the amount of total lot size that they have. That gives them their big picture numbers. And but you know there there is probably more requirements for additional glazing and higher finishes at the ground level particularly on the front facade but nothing that's probably a whole lot different than you might see in most other communities. So I don't think it's going to be it would be interesting like you say to see that but um test it but that's a pretty big process. One thing I could say here is I've been involved with two or three of these from the ground up and then been the contract reviewer on them and I think that what you should be prepared for is there will be adjustments. You'll find things that don't quite work or that work don't work the way that you want. And that's just and we knew that going in all of those that there would be a teething period of a year or so. And um then we just make changes. We just but we didn't do it every every meeting of the planning commission, city council, we just keep note of them and uh when it got to a crucial point, we would put all of them. We'd do reports on them what recommendations were and then take them forward to planning commission and they be forward to city council for approval. And then you you dealt with it. And that just makes it so that in one that I've worked on for several years, they just haven't made any changes for years now because it's works pretty seamlessly.

Did you you said you had you submitted this to UDOT already?

No, no. I uh I met with a commercial development that's exploring Tmont and we had a meeting with UD do about their permit um their rightway encroachment permit and then a meeting right after that to talk about these standards and a quick Google search um gave us some really good examples to to kind of guide them towards um and and like the architects were just like, "Okay, yeah, that we can do that." So, um I I'm hoping we can get some feedback from them that to maybe see what could be clearer. Um you know, if if we're missing a whole building type perhaps, but um but yeah, I with trying something this new, there's there's definitely going to be I like teething pains. That's a it's a very close to the heart one after having a couple toddlers. So, Phil's trying to

But is that the is that the proposed downtown street layout on page 20? Is that um is that what we're kind of aiming for or is I get to page 20. Not sure if we have that much room on parts of the downtown. Um but but generally I like the ballards. I like the ability to Yeah. as U. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, that should be ideally that's the street section we hope to bring in in the long run. But, um,

but are we defining that like now? So, when UD do their thing and wants to come back and says, "Okay, what's your plan?" And as we Yeah. as we redo sidewalks and all that. Mhm.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Um yeah, that's that's that's the point of this though is to put that into the plan and and um work with it on the rightway so that where we have the space we can show them that like this is what we're hoping to do with it. Um, it might be tough through the more narrow section through downtown, but um, I think having a a center median and and some wider spaces like that could uh, would would help with with decorating Main Street more. So, yeah. Or even if we have to take the median out in some places to get the footage,

you know, on the sides and then turn it in for the turn lane, you know.

Yeah. which um I mean that's that's what you see a lot down Washington Boulevard in in Ogden is you know and uh North Temple has the same North Temple and and South Temple both have islands down them now. So yeah, there's you just you put the medians in and and where you need turn lanes or or uh uh traffic flow for for directions, you you taper them like it shows. So, okay. Um, if you guys don't mind tableabling this, then we can try to wrap up uh chapter 8 tonight.

Make a motion to table 7B. This is going to be a slow burn, by the way. Like, this is not going to um My hope though is that we can continue working on this and and answer questions. Um, but we'll see how the discussion goes on the 28th. It's been moved that we table 7B. Is there a second? I'll second and seconded. All in favor of tableabling 7B. Discussion consideration of chapter 1.09 mixed use district say on favor say yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you, Mark. Unless he's gone. Okay.

Everyone familiar with chapter eight? Did you like the clean? I can't remember who recommended the clean copy because you started you started shuffling around for me. So I'm like I pictured there was someone over here but then I was like I don't remember but it was you Jack. So yeah I was over there then

just our floater. Um, I don't know if you guys want me to walk through it or if you just want to jump into if you guys have any questions on what's being proposed with this. Mike, to answer your question, I talked we feel like the enforcement on excessive water consumption would be best through uh their business licenses. So, we could as they have to come in and renew those year-over-year that we'd be able to to review what how much water they they um projected using and if there is that big of an assessment then be able to have a discussion through their business license.

Is that is that what we're going to put in the code or that's what's already in the code? Well, Greg, Officer Horsepool and I have agreed that we need to start having uh just not generic business licenses for everyone, but start having some

specifics for business licenses. different types. Um so is we um I think our business licenses are in the revised ordinances, but we're going to work up on on updating those um and having that different types of licenses. So that was what we were going to we discussed and thought would be a little bit more enforcable so that if there is an overage in their usage that as they come in we can either assess them a fee or or have a discussion on why they used so much more.

Yeah. Well, I think most businesses are fine. I mean if you have 10 more employees and you use an extra 20,000 gallons, you know, in a year for an extra bathroom, it's not that big of a deal. But I'd love to see like West Liberty Foods like what they were approved with originally, what they paid impact fees on, and then what they've used on an annual basis to now. Mhm. I don't know what they are, but I have a hunch.

Well, and and right now we don't have impact fees for commercial or industrial uses because it's hard to uh standardize what their water consumptions are. So um and most of the time because we can get a um a greater amount of property tax from them as well as is uh like I said with this new business license normally that's how we rationale offsetting those not collecting impact fees at the building permits.

Were those building permit types in that chart towards the end of this chapter? Is that where we saw that? Um, there are some uses. There's a couple use and lot regulation tables in here, but there isn't anything about um there isn't as much about building types in this code. Go towards the end. Oh, wait. Way far.

Oh, why did I highlight that yellow anyway? Oh, because the numbering doesn't Where are you looking at, Jack? Uh, it was in that neighborhood. U, I did have a question about this chart. Um, it seems like those the heavy industrial use has kind of small footprints. 20,000 square feet for heavy industrial use didn't seem

that's the minimum size. So I mean you can be as big as you want. We're just saying the minimum lot size you could have for industrial is either 10,000 or 20,000 square ft which is small. Yeah. Um, but if you're going to do more of like a an office space or something that small shipping, but yeah, 10 10,000s. Most of the time though, you don't you get lots that are a lot bigger than that. So, I don't think we'd we'd see anything that's really designed to that. Is that the chart too that had the different uh heights?

Yeah. And those heights seemed kind of excessive for the footprint, but that like you say, it's the footprint can change according to the size. Yeah. That that they're going to be able Like there was one like sevenstory possible in height. Yeah. In the commercial zones.

Yeah. Obviously, no one's built a sevenstory building yet in Totten. Um although I was trying to measure out to see if if the top of the post buildings was how close that was in feet, but my iPhone I don't think it should be a trusted measuring device from a th00and north. So yeah, it's three industrial stories high. So you know probably 20 foot. Yeah. So 60 to 70 ft. 60 70. Yeah, probably about No, I don't know how tall they are. So,

was there a chart on page seven? A continuation of that chart. Yeah, there's the Yeah, the heights. 5T 73. You guys really want to be out of here by 6:30 or like we've covered this enough that the questions are I'm still looking for that clean copy, you know? So, I sent it. I saw the clean copy in what you sent. So, I know I know it's there.

It's funny how much shorter it is. like all the changes out and I was like, "Oh, it was a lot easier reading." Yeah, it's nice because the people that host our city code, I can send them both copies and then they can already they they can go through and see like what they need to change on theirs. So, I I don't know. I have a lot of questions on some of this stuff. I don't understand why we like business office, why wouldn't we allow that in the CD, the CG, the CH, and the CN zones and why we would allow preschool major or minor only in the CD but not in some of the other zones.

I mean, I'm ask focus on the industrial parts. We're going to go clean up the commercials here in a minute. Oh, but I agree. I'm not sure, but honestly, like a lot of those commercial zones are going to be absorbed into the main street one. So, we're going to go through and after the main street code is adopted, um go through and and clean up because our most of our commercial zones now will be part of the mixeduse zones. Oh, that's true.

So, really, we'll just be down to like one. We might do like one or two commercial zones just to if we need to have them like somewhere else like if we want like with the the possible annexation on the hill if we wanted to be able to show commercial or mixed use up there. But that'll be the discussion to kind of have is as we as we move uh forward in the con commercial zone and with all of this is is how we want to proportion out you know the land use stuff and then with the updates the city council is asking for on the general and integrated land use plans that'll be the avenue to have these discussions. So, any questions on the updates to the industrial codes? Cool, guys. 64. We could really do 640. A lot of a lot of information for my brain today. That's where I'm at. So I can accept a motion.

So whatever here, whatever you want, but if you want to keep discussing or do we do we want to pass all of these together? What the

like this and this like tweak them so that they match or you're going to come we're going to change this then we're going to change this then we're going to come back and change this again. Well, that my hope was that we would actually get each one of them to have their own chapters, which is why we shoved 10 through 14 into 15. So that commercial would have its own or residential has its own, commercial has its own, industrial has its own, and our main street mixed use has its own. And that way we can get out because I would say about half this chapter has absolutely no industrial implications to it. So if that way if we feel like there's an issue, we can just look at the industrial code as its own and not be picking through. So my hope is that the numbering would be residential is like um

but why are we modifying this then? Why don't we just create those chapters?

Because I don't feel like our industrial code's ready if the port wanted to be annexed tomorrow. So, and I didn't no reason to really go through and update the all the commercial zones when literally all but one commercial spot in Tmont is put into the m the main street code. Like if the main street code became effective, the only commercial spot that is left out of it is what's on 600 North. There isn't any other commercial zone properties in Tmont that are outside of the main street code. Why don't we put 600 North in?

Because I didn't know how to get a Main Street COD that far north and have it be legitimate without affecting a bunch of other space.

And that's why I think we end up keeping either we either have a discussion of getting rid of our commercial zones and turn everything into mixed use or we have I mean we've had one here called neighborhood commercial. Um, and but that's really only Sorry, let me speak. There's two commercial zones. There's like two parcels on a thousand north zone neighborhood commercial. So, I agree our commercial zone needs a lot of u of updating, but to me the mixed the main street mixeduse code um will take over a lot of those. So, like we're not going to allow storage units anywhere in the city.

We never have. I don't know. I thought it was allowed in the MDB zone. Not as it currently reads. It was because we that piece behind uh uh the Civics Club over by the the piece behind where CNR used to be. We sold that piece to some guys that were going to build storage units. They're all Yeah, they're conditionally permitted. But they're allowed. They're just conditional use. Yeah. But in this change, it's taking that out and making everything not allowed.

So with one of the resident, one of the changes I'd like to make to the residential code, we put them in to me storage units should be by high density residential because that's the group that needs them most of the time. And so I was going to put them in spots where we zone for highdensity residential and allow them to be permitted in those um and um instead of having them in commercial or industrial because most of our zoning is residential and self-service storage units normally don't require the traffic flow of of industrial ground. you put them in a res residential area. I mean, some people looked at, you know, cuz I know we've got the one just off of Six North and about 10,000 West that

Yeah. you know, it's there and there's two houses between it, but yeah, like you say, the traffic is very light, but would there be people that would be saying, "I don't want that in my backyard, looking in at that through my backyard window or my front window all the time?" I don't I don't know. My hope with storage units is that is for example with MAT you would take one of those buildings and turn it into a multi-story uh storage unit that serves the complex well and MAT has already done that. Most of those projects already have built them in.

I would bet the bulk of the storage in town is actually from other residents, not the multif family. I mean, there's some of them that have it, but any of the new projects like Matson, they've already got a bunch of storage units. I think they call them garages. Garages. Yeah. Kind of similar thing. Um, I don't know. I just think I guess it should be allowed somewhere. And I'm not sure that anybody would be mad if somebody built storage units like in the manufacturing zone by Moltomail as an example. or you know I think we'd still rather have them there than we would have them right in the middle of a large subdivision. Although I don't know that they're would be terrible

unless you could you know make the facade and you know the landscape around it make it look appealing so it's not like a a sore thumb sticking out there. Yeah. We don't live in a big enough community. It's that far to drive too. Yeah. Well that's Jordan. But some of it is you want. I'd just prefer if people would get rid of stuff. Jeff doesn't always get what Jeff wants though. Is someone that's cleaned out three great aunts house and one two grandparents like please. It just ends up all in the same spot anyway. Gift that keeps on giving.

It's valuable. But the thing is, I guess, in neighborhoods, like I feel like like if you design it so you can see through the gates, the storage facilities will probably be safer and more policed if you've you're in a neighborhood cuz you can see see what's going on, see down the roads, you know, and there's not, you know, shady stuff going on. But, uh, the more you seal them up and like make them invisible, then that they're invisible. You know what I mean? Yeah. But just make them look appealing though so that they don't stick out like a you know Sure. a block building.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I just I don't like banning it from the whole city, I guess, just because I mean I think there's a need there. And you know how it works around here when you ban something trying to get it opened back up is just not as easy as it is banning it. And I personally don't even think it's legal. That's why the sobs are allowed, you know. But so have you modified the residential stuff then to allow for that?

Well, not yet cuz I was going to go industrial mixed use. So residential. So there'd be a short window where technically any new wouldn't be allowed. But my hope was that we'd be able to get through that in about 6 or so months. Um, and then be able to update the residential one. So that would be the area they're permitted in. But I'm if if uh there's somewhere if that's something that we'd like to put into to one of the manufacturing zones and and leave it as conditional, I'm happy to follow the commission's recommendation.

I just think, you know, if I bought a property with the intent to put storage units on it in that zone, you know what I mean? I wish you'd find a higher and better use, but sure. Well, but but if I'm a storage unit guy, that is the higher and better use. Yeah. You know, buy the property if it wasn't zoned for it. Exactly. And they already bought it and we're talking about taking that right away from them. In which case, then you're stuck with a piece of property. What are you going to do with it? Well, they can probably do something else with it. I just I just need a drink shop or a car wash. Yeah. Family oriented business.

I mean, I'm sure you can Yeah. I'm sure you can do something with it, but I just I don't know. I'm just not sure that it really like is that like if we're that upset of putting storage units in a manufacturing area. Like I don't know. I just to me I would be fine with them there. I don't think it's a problem at all. Okay. I mean, condition I think is fine if we want to put conditions on them, but So, you're thinking all three of them or just one of them or which of them? I don't know. I'm not sure that I know where these are going to apply like where's the actual MF, M1, and M2 zones going to be?

Okay. Um, we have that map. Yeah. So MFB was um Can you pull up our current zoning map or do you want Okay. Is it MFB? Is that what it is? Yeah. Um go go to Jonesivil.com. Aren't you trying to simplify your zoning though, Jeff? I'm simplify just by reducing the amount of zones we have in total. You can't simplify uses. Um, let's see here. Where did that map go?

So, right now, um, right now the area over by the hospital would be our MFB zone. So the the hospital and then going west to I-15 that area is um and then where Liberty and Malt are are the M1 M2 and then auto leave um all the way to the railroad tracks is M1. So if I was going to do any zone, I'd do M1. But like on 2000 West, what's that going to be?

Um, half of it's um half of it's the Main Street code, half of it's M2. The front half is the formbbased code.

Are we are we approving this tonight? Commercial stuff. If not, I can't really force you guys to approve anything, but so if there right bus, we haven't actually made money off of planning commission yet. Hey, I offered to get you to Salt Lake and then I forgot to follow up with any of you about that. So, the conference was really nice last week. I wondered about that. I was like, that seemed like it should have been sometime. I put it in my calendar, but I couldn't go anyway. So, it wasn't a huge loss for me.

Me either. Honestly, I think I need to read it more. Well, that's kind of what I was thinking. The So, you're saying the water stuff we're not going to put in here. We're putting that in the business license component. Yes. But we are still requiring them to do the infrastructure demand report that would quantify some of that. Yeah. And that'll be the base mark on whether we kind of know if they've gone over annually or not.

And that's what it's talking about the permit required. The conditional use permit is going to be required for every use. All permitted uses. Are you reading this? I'll obtain a site plan permit. Yeah. Which is just the site plan approval through DRC.

Okay. or if it's a if it's labeled as a conditional use permit, then you have to go through the steps that are in chapter 125. [Applause] What did you do with the slaughterhouse stuff? You took out the animals shall be limited to 100 animals in a 24-hour period because that's what they used to Oh, you just moved it down.

Yeah. Yeah. I thought having a whole paragraph of footnotes that were like size eight font was a little unfair to anyone. So, we put them into a paragraph that was to let them be further clarified. So you just copied them down. Yeah.

But that way they're a little bit easier to read. And so I've never liked when keynotes are I I personally Don't know why. I mean, I guess it Yeah, maybe it's fine. You know what I mean? I'm not sure why they can't be shown in the table, but I guess as long as it has a reference to down below, then it doesn't really matter. If you're diving into this, you can figure it out.

Yeah. which is why we had the bold, but I'm not sure that's supposed to be bold, but it just references anything with an asterisk in the table is further referenced in the that section. Do you know why we don't allow the twin homes? CD. I don't understand the CD zone,

but I guess you're saying all that's going to be redone anyway. Yeah, cuz the entirety of the CD zone is in the Main Street code, assuming we pass it. assuming we pass it. If not, then yeah, we're going to come in and clean up the commercial lot because the CD zone right now is acting as a mixeduse zone. And that's anyway, if the formbbased code doesn't pass, then yes, there will be some whether it does or doesn't pass, we'll have to modify this.

Yeah, but we can modify that once as part of giving it its own chapter number. Are you guys ready to go through this or you want to table it? I haven't really gone through it in great detail. It's a lot. Is a transportation impact study the same as a traffic study? Pretty much. Yeah,

which I could switch it over to be called the traffic impact study. Yeah, might might be ideal just cuz

sometimes things get confusing. So, the non-compliance thing under the water use capacity, should that be there or should that be in the business license deal? I liked having it in there just so that as they're going through it, they'll understand the thing, but then we can set up in the business licenses what those fines are. So that so that way they're communicated to upfront that that's a that's a potential, but then we can update it through the business licensing where they're where those fees and fines will be assessed. Do they not recommend the formbbased code for the manufacturing side?

Um um because is it going to be kind of weird to have we have some of it old school and some of it the formbbased code? You know what I mean? I just wondered if it if it will apply to one, why why we couldn't add another chapter and just do away with this whole thing and have it all tied down in there. I didn't know if we just wanted the whole city then to to be designed off the same architectural pallet. Well, I thought the whole purpose of it was to kind of let the architects design whatever they wanted just within within that scope.

Yeah. within a design of you got to it's got to have two stories and they got to be these heights minimum maximums but you can kind of do what you want. I don't I don't know that's I haven't dove into it to know how it exactly applies but if it would be limited enough that most industrial buildings aren't exceedingly windowheavy. So we could make a formbbased code for industrial stuff and honestly those are architectural standards we could put into the industri which we actually do have some I thought we did. I just wondered like, you know, like I don't I was driving by the new RC Willie down off the freeway in Leighton.

Have you Have you seen it? Like they came and like cut the building down halfway and they got some lower roofs and some different pitches and some different, you know, it's like a huge monstrosity of a building, but it generally looks pretty cool because they they did a bunch of that stuff. Yeah. Well, that's a commercial building. Like I can't imagine having that many windows at West Liberty Foods. No. No, I'm not. I don't think we're really Guys, come look at our processing equipment. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, if we can make them I mean, we do aesthetically look nice. We have to stare at them forever.

So, I mean, we do have the architectural character for the the MFB zones that we could expand to. That's in here, you mean? Yeah. But it doesn't go everything. It's not even close to what the formbbased code is. No. Do we not think that that would

be as similar? Have other cities have that what have they done? They've just picked and choose some of it and just done their downtown only. most mostly that they've tried to to tie in what their um like I know Clearfield did did a did a code just along their main street um but it but Clear um Clearfield has a has a lot of industrial and I don't know if they've ever done any arch standard like form based standards to that. So, um it's something we can definitely look at, but it's also taken about 7 months of uh to get the formbbased code to where it is now. So, I'd like to get some of these updates into code for the inland port and we can work on doing more of a formbbased industrial code. I can add that to my to-do list. I'll put that before the general plan and integrated land use plan updates though. Well, and I guess I'm I was just bringing it up. I'm not sure which way is the best. I I don't I don't know that it I guess really matters as long as it's does what we're trying to have it do. You know what I mean? I'm not sure I guess what the big advantage either way is. Yeah. Clearfield. Looks like they have not put in the industrial stuff. I don't know. For me, it's probably I don't know what you guys feel like, but somebody's putting in like a a 30 acre building. It's more critical to get that right than an individual house.

Yeah. For me. You know what I It's like the house is small enough we can actually tweak it over time if it has an ugly color or an ugly facade. But if you build a 30 acre building, like it just doesn't change that quickly and it is so expensive, you know, just my gut. You take this this one they put out here in Garnet, you know, like Sure. Yeah. I mean, I know some people don't like it and all that, but it's nice looking building. Yeah. you know, it's got nice um landscaping out front and you know, so I don't know how much that was driven by their company versus code for the city.

Yeah, I don't think there was any code generally from the city side. So, I think they just did what they wanted to do by gut, but I don't know. But if somebody wanted to build an ugly building, could they? I mean based on the way this is written you couldn't like a thatch roof I'm just talking like a big just huge metal shell or even just a concrete building presidential library

you are going to talk you will be talking to the wrong guy cuz I think architectural concrete um is the best looking finish so tilt up with a like that's a I think concrete gray is a wonderful color I don't know Well, I don't mind the color and I don't mind the concrete buildings, but I don't know if you've noticed some of them down on as you're going to Salt Lake, some of them have put in, you know, just little strips of different colors and they've put windows in certain places that I think make them look just offset offset it. Yeah. Just make it look so much better. And it wouldn't really cost all that much. But from a developer standpoint, if if they're coming in and like it's going to cost them an extra million dollars to paint a different color in 40 places, they're not going to do it unless we make them. Yeah.

Why would they do it? I mean, you know what I mean? It's just extra cost for what? Well, I like on West Liberty Foods, they they did all their downspouts a different color. So, like as those are coming down, it actually breaks up sections. Yeah. Sections the building a little bit. And I'm like, that's pretty much as far as you get along with sheet metal for changes in color. So, I I'm I'm happy to go back and see what other architectural and we could we could change section 35 in this to just be for all the industrial zones that they have to have these standards. You guys read through them. Section 35

1.08.035. Now, I will say whoever was doing this numbering didn't count well uh cuz there's two of them in a row and that would be me. So, what should be 040 but it isn't which is another learn to count. I was just thinking if it all kind of was similarly like patterned that you know we have you have the use table of what's allowed and then we have the building types just like you're doing in the formbbased code the building types that are allowed in those same

industrial areas unless there's a reason to not to um that could be the exception you know you could get a special exception for because you know they might need something that doesn't fit fit quite fit but it's but it's not being the whole building. It might just be a certain part of that building but the rest of the building would Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what I just I don't know like I can't tell you right now what what wouldn't work what I would like to see if somebody was going to build a 30 acre building behind my house. But I'm sure that somebody has put together that code that would make it be less intrusive and less ugly.

The thing about it is is I feel like if any business is coming in, if they're I mean, if you're building a new building, I think most people are kind of like, well, if we're putting effort in, let's make it look decent. Like, and and it is their brand. And in America, we mostly care about what a brand looks like because we're not going to associate with it if And what if my brand is to be ugly? Steampunk and your brand. Yeah. Steampunk garage sale garbage dump. Just like what what what is the definition of that? Like cuz I mean of course we have in here that says it needs to be aesthetically pleasing and fit in. But well and that mean

what does that mean? You can't tell anybody what that means. Well, that's exactly what the form code is saying is the code. That's the form code is saying not only do specifically this Yeah. that we're saying, okay, we're telling you exactly where you can build it, exactly where the parking can be, exactly how tall each floor can be, minimum and maximum, exactly what materials you can use, exactly where you can build the building on your lot. Do you know what I So, are you saying that you're in favor of having that same thing apply to commercial to just industrial manufacturing? Well, I just think if you're going to if you're go if any place we ought to get it right, it's probably there. A lot of this stuff is this is this is strictly just for the main street stuff.

Yes. But if if we're going to talk about it at all. Well, and it's just weird. It feels like weird to have like we have one section for the commercial industrial that's all vague and hard doesn't have any teeth to it. But our home local town people and the commercial downtown, we are going to put the freaking screws to you. Do you know what I mean? If you want to build downtown, you got to do exactly what we're going to tell you to do. But if you're going to build a 30 acre building we have to stare at forever, we don't even care. You know what I mean? Like should it not be like quantified? So, if we table this and we look at every huge building in the next two weeks, could we come up with some actual

And the only caution I would throw at you is if we get a big industry coming like that, let's not scare them away with our code, too. Sure. So, we got to be really careful. Well, it's not just that. It's the downtown people. It's the same. All of this needs to It's not just those people. You know what I mean? We need to make sure that all of them are going to not scare everybody away. But we also need to make sure that whatever we do there, we're going to be okay with and we're going to be able to live with if they do our minimum standards because you can always allow for an exception if it's, you know, with Yeah, but that never works. You do that, you allow for everyone. Yeah, that's true. Well, and exceptions are really messy because if somebody comes in, you know, exactly,

well, you know what's going to happen? Anybody comes in and does anything and then half the city shows up, they're upset and then exceptions are true out of the picture, you know. I make a motion we uh table it to the next meeting and we'll look at and see what other cities have done. Maybe the formbbased code is a reason we shouldn't do it with industrial. I don't know. So making a motion to table. Is there a second? I'll seconded that we table the discussion and consideration of chapter 1.08 08 commercial and industrial zone district until next meeting. All in favor say yes.

Yes. Yes. All opposed. The motion passes. Now planning commission comments and reports. have your lunch. The Maddox, right? Yep. I saw that. Maddox. What's the date on that again? Yeah. I'm not sure if I'll be able to third. December 3rd. We must have moved on. Sure did. Although, would it be better to act like we were going and then Okay. I I I'm going to act like I'm going.

I will act like I'm going. I'm really going to go. I hope. Yeah, that's great. Hope to go. Sounds good. I know we've had this conversation before, but what's the what's the give and take about spending our money in Tmont? Um, doesn't matter.

They've they've already scheduled it there and so that's where we're going to go and stay with county. Unless you guys want to go somewhere or if you want to hold a party here, what whatever you want to do. You guys work hard and we want to we want to make sure that we recognize you in any way we can. Um Jay Bryan's does some major good smoked meats. That's all I'm saying. And if I don't have to travel and if I let's just say I don't have to travel at all basically that'd be awesome. But no I it's it's what it is. I'm just

you're the commission. You can part of part of my stick in the past and my you know what made me unpopular I guess in some circles is yeah if we're going to spend money from the city let's spend it in Tree Mountain. I couldn't agree more honestly. So, but and there is good food. I mean, for Jay Bryant, Jay Bryant is good food. Where would you go eat? Does he have a place for everyone to sit down and and cater here? No, they bring it here. But if you're going to get a steak to at Maddox, it's still a good amount of money.

It's a good amount of money, but it's not even about the money. And it's like if it's about just meat, if you're wanting good good cuts, good meat, man. Yeah. Kitty Brian's as good as any. Is there a conflict of interest there? No, I'm just kidding. No, Brent, stop. Stop. You can't say that. And you can't comment. Just kidding. Okay. But anyway, any other comments, reports? Did we make a decision on that or what are we doing? That was just my voice. I think talk to Tiffany about it later. I think everybody's generally in favor of going to Maddox and I'm a stickler in the sand.

Well, I think it just has you have more options. Like some people aren't going to necessarily want steaks, you can get fish, you can get chicken strips, you can get whatever you want. And supporting box, you don't want meat. I'm sorry. You are not invited. I'm just saying not everybody would probably eat the same thing per se. And I in my opinion like if we're supporting Boxelder County that's that is good enough. Just about as close as it possibly gets to Tmont, you know. But I'm I'm open to whatever, too. It doesn't really matter to me. I'm not that picky. And I don't feel like I should have an opinion because I'm not sure I'll make it. So, we'll see.

I'm going to be there. So, I've put it down for Maddox. He's excited, too. Don't even get me started, man. I'm just saying if I can ground ground turkey versus a real Why? Okay, we'll have this conversation later.

Hey, I did want to add I've recently uh driven through the the Inland Port and Spanish Fork, the big Inland Port development down there, and it's really impressive. It's uh the building types are all quite similar, so it it it goes together and uh so I don't know what they've done down there, but it uh it works down there. I don't think I looked through Spanish Forks, sorry to interrupt. I looked through Spanish Forks Code. I couldn't find anything architectural wise like that they required. They required. Speaking of that, when is the when is it vested? Is it invested upon the annexation application? It's vested

vested when they submit something for approval. Okay. Okay. So, we've got a minute. Okay. Good. I just also don't want our agendas looking like one tabled item after the next either. It's true. We're going to get there. I make a motion. We adjourn. Well, the only only other thing I would suggest is continue to take these, study them offline, and I'm saying this to the city council, too, right? And and be be well prepared when you come here that you know what you're talking about and you're ready to discuss it. That could help a little bit. Well, it could definitely help.

I'll make a motion we adjourn. And moved. No need for a second. There isn't. My second is