Planning Commission - Special Meeting

more than that. We were trying and there's Brian. Um, can I do the acknowledgement after the roll call for Lawrence? You think that's the appropriate time? After the roll call? Okay. We were talking about whether or not they have they have to come when their term expires.

Has to do with the scheduling. to require it. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I didn't think everybody wait for Brian. Ready?

This is a special meeting, right? Yeah, it is. Wait till she comes back.

Good evening. Welcome to the Traverse City Planning Commission special meeting. Today is Tuesday, November 18th. Welcome to all of you. So, we're calling this meeting to order. Roll call, please. Commissioner McGillary, here. Commissioner O'Brien, here. Commissioner Treadwell, here. Commissioner Swanson, here. Commissioner Cameron, present. Commissioner Anderson, present. Commissioner Duri here. Commissioner Hershey here.

And Commissioners uh Heler and Nap are both um absent. Uh they had other I forget the word obligations tonight. Thank you. So, as always, we'll start with our land acknowledgement. The land on which we gather is the territory of the Ottawa and Chippoa peoples who have stewarded this land throughout the generations. Thank you for your strength and resilience in protecting this land and inspiring us to uphold our responsibilities to do the same. We just want to take a minute to say that our thoughts are with the family of Lawrence Boyd, who was a valuable employee to the Traverse City Parking Services Department. who was tragically taken from us. We want to honor Lawrence's service to our community and we are keeping his family and friends in our hearts. Tough times. Okay. So, we can now move on to the topic before us. The one topic tonight for consideration, consideration of a public way on the city-owned property at 225 West Grand View Parkway, which would be established through a public private partnership between the city and the adjacent land owner JS Capital. And I'm going to turn this over to Leslie Sterman.

Hello. Um, uh, so tonight we are looking at the, um, the plans for this, uh, public walkway. This is similar to the plans that you saw a few months ago for the public pocket park on East Front Street. And uh in essence the uh question before the planning commission is uh is in regards to whether or not this is consistent with the master plan. Um the the uh planning enabling an act uh requires that the planning commission uh determine whether um any public improvements including parks are consistent with that plan. The plan is um kind of general in this uh in this area and but this is part of the commercial core and within the commercial core the plan calls for uh areas to be set aside for public use and public parks. So, uh that's kind of the core um of the the issue. Um, I I can also tell you that the other reference documents are the recreation plan and the lower boardman consolidated plan. And uh, especially the lower boardman plan does call for uh, public walkways uh, extending from Garland Street to um, the Parkway. And there are different areas identified within that plan that could accommodate that. Uh so this kind of helps to um realize that plan and uh get us a little bit closer to having that northwest

access um uh across the river. Um and uh I didn't I failed to let you know that uh Sean is out tonight. Um he's got uh a a kid event tonight with his daughter. Um but he has provided um a staff review in your packet and as well as a um uh recommended motion uh in support of uh or I think uh maybe recommending not in support of this uh request. So, we do have um representatives from the developer here tonight who'd like to share a little bit of information with you and answer any questions. Thank you.

Uh good evening. Thank you for your time. I'm Jeff Clatt with CregerClad Architects. I'm also here with the new Syndicate Hotel team. We have Paul, Bridget, and Margaret. And we have a brief presentation, then we can answer any questions that you might have. So, as was as Leslie mentioned, we are seeking approval for the proposed public way improvements and the easement. And the easement is really required to allow the hotel to gain access to the public way from a fire suppression standpoint. So, when I say the the proposed public way, I'm really referring to that 25 foot piece of property that's sandwiched in between the hotel indigo that exists in our new Syndicate Hotel and it extends from Gran View Parkway, West Gran View Parkway all the way to Borman Street. So that's the piece of property that we're talking about when I say public way. And from a design standpoint, we really look at this as kind of the missing piece of the puzzle for the for the syndicate hotel hotel development. It really provides that that final connection piece around the hotel as we developed West West uh Grand View Parkway and Garland Street. This is really that last piece of the puzzle. And both of these elements are really designed in accordance with the master plan in our opinion. So, for example, as was mentioned, we're in the C4A district, the commercial core warehouse district, aka AKA warehouse district, and most developments in that area are encouraged to be uh pedestrian oriented and walkable. They're encouraged to strengthen connections to the downtown and the waterfront. They're encouraged to have activated storefronts, and they're also encouraged to have outdoor amenity spaces such as parking, uh pocket parks, uh perimeter landscaping, and further pedestrian connections. and we feel the syndicate hotel does just that. So before we get into the the the public way, I just wanted to kind of step back a little bit and look at the hotel itself. So these are some of the public benefits that the hotel and now the uh the uh public way will offer. So what's shown on the screen here that U-shape is the hotel building. So north is up. We have Grand View Parkway which is also up on the screen and then we have Garland Street which is at the bottom. So again

the white space is the hotel. So that number one that suggests that you know this hotel development activated Garland Street which is important. There's been a lot of activity on the street and there's been a lot of uh you know growth to encourage pedestrian uh friendly streetscapes and this is what this did as well. So we have a new restaurant we're proposing a new fitness center very pedestrian friendly activated storefronts new plantings along the perimeter of the building. We're a little bit tight along Garland but it is heavily paved. So we are proposing some or we we did propose and we were approved to provide planters along that way and along west west Grand View we have a bit more robust planters more greenscape helps buffer the building just softens it against the the streetscape and the pocket park is probably the biggest piece you know for the overall development you know that is intended for hotel use but also for the public as well too outdoor seating outdoor dining just a green space that's welcoming to the public and then the fitness center which kind of rolls into number one is you know part of that streetscape Again, that's an amenity for the hotel, but it's also for the public for me from from a membership standpoint. And then last but not least, that missing puzzle piece I mentioned, number five, which would be the public way alley or the, you know, pedestrian connection. So, these are just some some images that we presented before we were in front of planning commission for the hotel. The the fitness center is the upper left corner and then the pocket park would be the lower left and the right side. That's just more of an aerial view and a streetscape view of that public park. You can see the outdoor seating, the umbrellas, just a lively space for the public and the hotel guests. I mentioned the master plan. I just wanted to provide a little bit of a snippet here and just to show that we are in alignment with those goals. The star at the top of the screen represents where the development is. So, we're right within the commercial core area. And as it states in the master plan, the commercial core is highly walkable and designed at the pedestrian scale with a focus on creating a lively street atmosphere. And I think both of these two pieces will help do that. Again, design goals, pocket parks, public art. You'll see in the presentation that we do have a mural plan for the side of the

hotel along the along the public way. It's an outdoor use, pedestrian, non-motorized, you know, no vehicular access, no bike access to that space. And then we're also in alignment with the Borman River plan in 2013. So this diagram is taken right from that plan and it suggest you see those red arrows that kind of suggest the connectivity across the Borman River kind of leading from the downtown area out to the bay and it's maybe not exactly how that plan works but you can kind of see that it does right along the hotel indigo and right now it seems like it's shortcircuited there. It goes it's a nice connection from downtown across the boardman all the way right up to to Garland Street but then the connection severs. So this will be that natural connection to kind of connect the dots all the way through. uh development updates. As you're I'm sure as you're aware, you see activity around the site. So, this is an aerial view of the project kind of as we see today. Our local broker took this image, but uh the stair and elevator shafts have been fully constructed. First floor structural steel is installation is underway. Uh underground utilities have been installed. Uh the concrete slab is poured. So, we're making good good good progress and we're still on schedule for the 2027 opening. So, the proposed design of the public way. Uh, this is more of an aerial view, overhead shot of that. And you can see kind of in the middle of the screen, there's that oval shape, that yellow oval. That's where this public way is, as I mentioned earlier, right between the hotel indigo and the the syndicate. And then that red dash line represents that pedestrian connection. You know, the bridge across the Boardman. It's already been established, you know, heading north. And then we're going to our goal today, if approved, we want to connect the dots to uh to finish that off. And I apologize. I had to turn the view. So now I'm disorienting a little bit. But in this one, I it's just flipped. So Grand View Parkway is to the left and then Ground Street is to the right. The Syndicate Hotel is the white shape up above and then the Indigo is the white shape on the bottom. So you can kind of get a broader sense of how the walkway

works. So as I mentioned, it's roughly 24.8 ft wide. We'll have a nice uh wide 9 foot sidewalk right down the middle of that. It'll be buffered by, you know, beautiful landscape beds, uh, mixup plantings, hostas, boxwoods, switchgrass, uh, peach berry coral bells. Not exactly sure what those are, but I'm sure they're beautiful. And they'll be within planters and also planted in in the, uh, ground as well, too. So, a nice mix of of benches. I think we have eight of those planned and just be a beautiful space. And that star really represents, uh, there's hotel egress coming out at that point. It's a large building, so we have egress out to Grand View, egress out to Garland Street. We also have egress here. But the more important part is the fire marshall has requested access for the fire riser room here. So that's kind of hence, you know, why we're here today. So we want to provide that access, but also want to beautify that connection, which again the final piece of the puzzle. So I think this will be a beautiful pedestrian way. Uh we have security ballards at each end to prohibit cars or vehicles from coming through. It's it's pedestrian only. will have beautiful poles and string lights kind of cascading across it to liven it up. Um, again, benches, landscape, just a beautiful space. And then we have a handful of renderings here of what it will look like. So, this is a view from Garland kind of looking out towards towards the bay. You can see the string lights, some good activity in the space. You kind of get a hint at the mural, and that's not fully designed it either. We're working with the muralist, I believe, right now, but more than happy to work with the city to make sure that's exactly what's intended. but it's meant to be something that's Traverse City oriented and and or maybe even the warehouse district oriented. But there's another view here. So again, this was pardon this is my uh chat GPT attempt at a mural. I plugged in some values and it gave me gave me a handful. I did the Picasso option, the Van Go option. This is what we came up with. So but we'll we'll we'll do something that's uh you know attractive here. But again, it could be a lively a lively space. And this is more of an overhead view of

the string lights and the and the planters. Just a nice mix of of uh plants to skate to uh help soften this up a little bit. And and that's it for our presentation. If you have any questions, we'll be more than happy to address them. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any questions?

Oh, yes. Thank you. Very interesting presentation. Um, I think my first question maybe isn't for you as much as for the planning staff. Um, can you give me a summary of the the ownership history of this this land? Um, I've been told that there's um some history when it belonged to Traverse City Light and Power for an underground easement and at one time there was consideration of it being sort of the entrance way to a a tunnel system underneath Grand View and then that light and power gave it over to the city and can you could somebody give me a little summary of how we got here?

That is information I don't have. I do know that um the um that this was this is a pre-existing easement uh and it's held by the city. I don't know about a tunnel. I don't know about the previous easement with light and power, but that's certainly something we can look at or, you know, get some information for you. But I know that this easement already existed. But as far as we know at this point, it's simply property owned by the city of Traverse City and it's not a designated part. Right. Right. Okay. Access easement.

Okay. Great. Thank you. That's that's good to know. Um and I have more questions, but I don't want to monopolize. So, go ahead. Shall I shall I go ahead? Yeah, go ahead. Um, I I noticed in the original paperwork application from July of this year that the request was for a a simply a six-foot public safety fire marshal designated easement for emergency exit. Um, and I'm wondering could you tell us how we got from there to this? Let me first capital first Dave and Sean about it. We need just our door to the south. easement.

So it was kind of in suggested by the planning staff. Great. Thank you. When we we built developed indigo early on there was talk about a tunnel in that area wasn't fun. Okay. So, so Indigo, Syndicate, and the condominium are all under your umbrella. Indigo. Oh, you sold it. 2018. Got it. Okay. Condos and Thank you. Um, but this is a much better plan. That would be a nice little extension to Garland.

It's very attractive. It's very much nicer extension. So, we're happy to do this. Did did I hear you mention that this is pedestrian only? No bicycles. Correct. It's our understanding that you know maybe for a work session there was an ordinance that sidewalks or correct and this is considered a sidewalk. So it's a park but it's a sidewalk. It's not a park. It's not a park. Will it ever be a park? No. No. So, it's just a public access easement.

Okay. Um, what what are the plans for maintenance of this space? Who who owns the space in terms of maintaining and keeping it clear of snow and taking furniture in and out and all those good maintenance kind of things. I'm sorry, I can't hear you. For the easement during the work session, we were going to handle stone removal and the maintenance of the area. Okay. All right. furniture replacement. Yeah, because also I mean you guys are required to keep that open for fire access, right? I mean that's that's where this is coming. I believe it's from the door to this publicly owned space, right? That's what the easement is for.

Correct. They're required to keep that open per fire marshall just like I believe. Is there a similar one at the Indigo? No, the door on the Indigo is to a fire suppression closet. Okay. It's a storage. It's their boiler room. Okay. Okay. Um I'll I'll keep going. How many more do you have? Because I'd like to give other people a chance. I I did offer other people a chance and you're welcome to call on others as they But did anybody else have other questions? Brian did. I saw his great and then we can come back to you, Jackie. Thank you.

Um are there any infiltration concerns with subsurface contaminants? on that site? Yes. On that on this specific walkway. In other words, you're not require Are you required to cap it or can you allow water to basically percolate down? It can percolate down.

So there are no restrictions regarding that. Okay. Um and how much of this surface is you seem like you have a lot of heavy planters. So, how much of this are these planters, you know, are they going to be open bottom drain or are they going to be uh basically hard buckets? They'll be open bottom.

So, everything. So, the only real hard surface on this other than the existing uh the existing uh door access for Indigo, it's utility connections over there on the west side and the transformers on the east side will be the 9 foot sidewalk. Correct. Correct. Okay. Yeah. So, I did that was one of my questions was how wide is the sidewalk because it wasn't indicated in our packet. So, thanks for that. Um, you've already answered about what the plings are going to be since they're going to be um because that was one of my questions because you're not going to get a lot of sun there.

No, we took that in consideration. They designed shade plant planning, right? And uh and my other question is were concerns were going to be about maintenance, you know, um snow removal. And I'll make a comment right now. I just this is part of a pathway, right? It's a connection. It's the last leg before you get to the water. You kind of build it as a gathering spot. I don't know how much gathering is going to take place. I mean, I personally I look at that. Am I going to stop here to look at the uh walls in the mural and or am I going to keep going and look at the bay? I think most people are going to keep going look at the bay.

I actually think you're overbuilding this. But if you're maintaining it, it's not fun on city taxpayers. That's up to you.

But I think if you've got more benches than are necessary, I just don't see it. Uh the city's responsibility was the um was the maintenance, especially the winter maintenance. My question is, you know, where are you going to put snow? You've got enough space, but now you've got all those planters. And then my other question was going to be um you know, the string lights are nice, but they're not a longterm. They're high maintenance. I own some. They're a maintenance issue. Okay. So, um, and they're just not going to last as long as a hard fixture. But if the if you guys want to do that, that's up to you. I mean, if you're going to take that on forever,

uh, pardon. Spring lights came from the string lighting. That's right. Yeah, I know. Incorporate. Again, I'm just saying it's still it's a maintenance issue no matter who's doing it. But, but they're maintaining.

Yeah. No, the city maintains them, though. and my look at it is this we're looking at the character of this I mean location extent are pretty much set right so you look at the character of it and one of my questions for I'm looking at taking a little bit more expansive view of character than we have in the past with these types of reviews because I think it's in based on past actions after it leaves us um but Um yeah, that's I mean those are most of my questions, my concerns.

Uh and like I said, you know, it's like everything's maintenance. So the question I have is this looks to me more is a high maintenance issue. you've got a bunch of flower beds and m have to be maintained and is that necessary for um you know for this location for this type of park and I wouldn't say it's too nice but if you want to maintain it it's part of your more along your lines and you do have windows up there I'm you know that's fine with me I didn't see I didn't notice you had windows you have more information now and you've got the windows that towards the north end, which I wasn't sure if this was just going to be windows or basically, you know, brick walls. It's a long canyon. So, meeting rooms at the north end of the hotel offices.

So, you know, that's something else. But, um, yeah, I mean, it's up to you. Uh, if this is what you want to do, if you wanted to scale it back more, I'd be okay with that, too. But that's my thoughts. Mitch,

yes. Echoing some of what commissioners Jackie and Miguel have already said, I appreciate uh that there's a substantial landscaping plan in here as a landscaper myself, but we have already entered the five or six months of the year when you do not have um summer landscaping. And okay, the boxwoods uh will still be there, but grasses uh uh blackeyed susans, onions, etc. will have to be trimmed and uh you'll be back with bare ground and uh the omnipresent threat of snow. There is um no plan for these sidewalks to be heated. There's no outlined plan for snow removal. And if we are viewing this as a path through here for pedestrian access is consistent with our master plan and is outlined in the lower boardman river plan and our CIP to have pedestrian access through here that is only functionally pedestrian access if there is an outlined plan to keep it accessible for 12 months of the year. um you have sold the indigo so it's no longer your concern but uh the accumulation of ice and snow in front of the indigo was one of the issues along with in front of the right former right aid at 8 and Garfield and a couple other properties around town that led to the major street setback ordinance of 2019 to provide more space for snow um that will be continuously thrown up by cars and uh snow plows. So um this hotel will be set back a little farther from the Grand Rap Parkway than Hotel

Indigo was, but there is still no plan for no clearly outlined plan for the sidewalks to be heated or there to be effectively a continuous um snow removal operation. could be just a staff person going out there and clearing. And yes, um the city ordinance does say that even if it is a public sidewalk adjoining your property, the property owner is responsible for that. But we have not seen uh compliance at the ordinance level uh with property right next door. So, I would um I would say this doesn't meet the standard if we don't have um a strong commitment and outlined plan for that snow removal. And

echoing what McGillary said um about the scale, yes, a path is nice through here, but I do question uh the width of uh 9 ft. If we went with a six foot width as the standard for our sidewalks elsewhere in the town, then I'd say that provides ample space for people to be passing through, but would also provide more impervious surfous surface whether it's planters, uh, grass or other stuff for rain, for um, snow to melt.

Okay, I'd like to interject here a minute. There is only one question before this body tonight which has nothing to do with design particularly. It's whether a public way is consistent or inconsistent with the master plan. It it it's only a public way. Is that consistent or inconsistent? So we've heard that it creates connectivity. Also in your packet you will see that in the CIP the city was already going to improve this this public way. Uh it's just that the developer is helping us out a bit by um um doing it earlier. So, it's it's not the design that may come to you as part of the city commission, but we only have one um objective here according to the zoning enabling act is whether it's consistent. The the way itself is inconsistent or consistent.

Yes, Brian. Um I'm going to disagree. If you look at the motion, it says to be found consistent with the city's master plan in terms of location, character, and extent. And I think when you talk about character of a space, you're talking about the design of the space. Now, we don't have final site plan approval.

Okay? And I understand that. That's really a staff function, but we're talking about the character of this space. And so I I mean I also going to disagree uh with Mitch in that I think nine feet is reasonable because uh downtown this could get a lot of traffic in the summer. Maybe not uh as a cut through um especially if we ever do finish the bottom half of it. But um across the second pass, second bridge across the boardman, maybe not. I don't know. But uh during peak times of the summer, it could get a significant amount of cut through. Um and I think that's important. So I'm going to say with nine feet, I'd like it. Most of our downtown sidewalks are wider than six feet. Um, and I think that's fine, but um, I think that the character of this, the design is important. And I think that it, you know, it, you know, are we trying to create a pocket park or are we just trying to create a pathway? Because if it's just a pathway, this looks more like a pocket park. You don't need eight benches. You don't need all that lighting. you would want to do something more. But if this is a private public partnership and the applicant wants to cover that those costs long term mean forever, then I think then if they want to improve it to that level, that's I'm okay with it.

I mean, it looks better than it would otherwise. Um but I so I think we should have a comment on that but I would agree I think that as written I would only um I would only approve it if you know that we you know my comment is that it's I think it's being overbuilt personally uh and it's the question is whether it's not it's going to be maintained and if it's going to be maintained by a private entity Then I think it's, you know, it behooves us to mention that in our motion that it's important that uh, you know, that we think that the character it's I just being it's too nice

for a space that's not going to get a lot of use. I mean, it's it's, you know, it's like half people won't even know it's there.

Okay. It's just going to be a cut through and it's um it may be used because you've got that nice entryway on Grand View Parkway. So, it might be used more that way. Um but most people are just going to cut through the hotel coming from Garland. Um and going through there, it's just going to be something people will find. It's just a weird spot. Okay. If the city was going to do it, my comment would be it's overbuilt. If you guys are going to do it, you want to maintain it, that's up to you. But this my advice to the city commission is make sure you have that in writing. Otherwise, you know, get rid of some of the plings and some of the I wouldn't get rid of all of them. I just think 150 foot long pocket park is really long.

It's not a pocket park. Madam Chair, can I um give you just a little bit more background which I probably should have filled you in on before. So this plan did go to the inter departmental group called the design team. Uh so engineering um uh storm water uh light and power, the streets department, uh parks department all had an opportunity to weigh in and give some input. That's the reason we see these ballards there and uh restriction on um on uh bikes going through. Uh there was discussion about um uh maintenance and uh a hope from that group that there would be consideration of um heated sidewalks. Uh because of the you know propensity for um in this in this kind of location for there to be a lot of drifting and for snow removal. timing to be kind of difficult because the city it would need to be coordinated if they're going to push snow out onto Garland that then you know the streets department has to coordinate that to come and clear it at the time that they're clearing. Uh but all of that was deferred to um the detail of the maintenance plan that will be developed as part of the easement uh in coordination with uh the city attorney. So there will be a maintenance plan details TBD as that was my understanding. The other thing is we did have a little chat with um with Sean Prior about whether it's appropriate to

add conditions. He felt that it was uh if if you're inclined to uh find that this is consistent with the master plan, you could add a recommendation to the city commission uh relative to any of the concerns that you have. He thought that that was appropriate. Did you I actually want to hear what Yeah, I think you were coming up to say something, so I want to hear what you have to say.

I was just going to say as the maintenance lady who will be able to take care of it, it is a little overengineered, but for the most part, it's for safety. Um, the lighting uh we were very particular about because we wanted to make sure that every it was lit, it felt safe the entire time. Um, the width of it, but also just being able to partner with the Indigo and the warehouse district was also extremely important to us. Um it may seem as though it won't be a used area, but I believe our neighborhood needs a lot of work um in that area. There's no maintaining a whole lot down there. Um and I would like to see something different with that. So um partnering and doing a lot of activity. Um don't underestimate us because we have a lot of great ideas for that space to activate it and to make it a public park area to let people know where the waterway is. So, we'll get there.

Um, I'd like to say I totally disagree. I think it's a fabulous space. I was once the chair of the arts commission, so I'm just thrilled that you are going to have mural there. Um, I know that when you do have art there, people do stop, they do look. Um, and you know, you're near a hotel, you might have some food in your hand, who knows? Um, I think it's I think it's beautiful and there's plenty of places to sit. I think it's exciting. Love the lighting. Um, it's very dark in the winter. You know, we need the lighting.

Yeah. Um, uh, and it so it brightens up the space and it's also a safety feature. I can't personally say see anything that is inconsistent with our master plan in this what is being presented to us and and and to vote against this you have to prove that it's inconsistent with our plan connectivity walkability that's all in our plan so I'm 100% in favor of it and I think it's gorgeous may I want to hear what you have to say but then I would like to go if that's Okay. Oh. Oh, some sorry.

You know, we're making a huge commitment to this area. Um, and this is just one um kind of snapshot of the vitality and vibrancy and um experiences that we hope to create and um that connect us. You know, it's our neighborhood. We've been here for a while with the indigo um and now with the syndicate and the further building. Um, this is our neighborhood and we want to make it uh vibrant and energetic and strong and create a a sense of all of that. Someone mentioned um kind of the discovery of it and um I think that's one of the cool things people driving by or walking by on either side doing a double take to see something like that in a spot that you'd never expected. So those kinds of things are really important to us and um are kind of our reason for being. So um again, I hope that you find it consistent.

Thank you. Um I'm going to make the motion, but I think this brings up something that has been on my mind for quite a while. When we do the rewrite, I would like to look at including things like this in developments, like asking developers to do public goods like this. Um, a lot of other cities do that. We don't. Um, and I think that's really important going forward. Um, so I would like to make the motion to affirm the proposed public private project by JS Capital to improve the city-owned property at 225 West Grand View Parkway for a public way as presented at the November 18th, 2025 planning commission meeting be found to be consistent with the Mass City's master plan in terms of location, character, and extent. support.

Uh, I was going to open up for public comment and then come back. Or you want to make another comment before I go to public? I'll go public comment. Huh? You want to go Brian? Public comment. Go ahead. Comment for commission comments. Yes, that's Thank you. So, I was just thinking if let's say the partnership there wasn't a partnership. So then the hotel will get developed. There would just be a someone has to put the sidewalk in, right? Because that's a requirement from the fire marshall

and then the city would be on the hook for both the whatever the design and cost and the maintenance. Yeah, it just seems like a no-brainer that at least in my opinion. I mean the design is one thing. I just think if not it would just be a weedy what it is now. It's what it is now. So

that's just how I'm viewing it from a you know because it could take us years before we got all of our funding and everything in place and the maintenance. Um so if they're offering to partner with the city, it seems like a good um good opportunity. Okay, let's get the rest of the comments and before we go to public comment then, Jackie.

Okay. Um, a couple of follow-up questions. One is on maintenance. Um, your involvement in Indigo um certainly demonstrates that you're you're committed to the area and then the property is is resold. Are there assurances that any maintenance commitments will travel with the property, not with future owners that that that there won't be a gap in the commitment to maintenance? Be tied to the easement. Tied to the easement. Great. Good. Um I have another

um I'm I'm wondering about the potential that you see for um conducting commerce in that space. Uh it seems to me an ideal place to settle in with a coffee or a drink or a little bite of food and um what are your plans regarding that? General manager.

Um we have a restaurant at Garland as well as a lobby barcop in the middle. So when you look at right when you look at the Grand View Parkway um and we have that pocket park in the front that opens up that is where the coffee slash bar will be and it will be operation from morning till night. Um and you are allowed to leave in between but the hotel indigo also has both of those things and so uh we would allow anybody in our neighborhood to sell to anybody that would walk through there. And so you anticipate consumption if not sale of food and beverage in the in the passageway. Yes.

Is that an allowed use by the city for a passageway? So um sorry I did not mention alcohol. Um and that's something that we would figure out um with our liquor license and the indigos, but it wouldn't be something that we are proponent of as of right now. So, it it's fair to say that it adds um a a benefit to your properties to have a an outdoor seating area where where your food and beverage can be consumed conveniently. It benefits the entire neighborhood. Yes, ma'am. Okay.

Thank you. Um so, I I would suggest that we need to pursue exploration of city ordinance to find out. I know there are limitations in some of our um parks and this is not a park but um you know we've recently updated our ordinances relative to um beverage consumption on sidewalks alcohol yeah alcohol alcoholic beverages not coffee not sodas right not water

so I I just think that's a loop that needs to be circled around um and Let's see. Uh just a general comment. Um this is a a piece of city-owned property, a city asset, 3750 square ft of Bay View property. And um I I am um I I would need some more convincing to understand that this is the highest and best use of that property. So I I will not be voting in favor of it. So a better use would be leaving it weeded.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying we haven't explored any alternatives for it and that it's a city asset and we are giving an easement of the entire city asset to a a a private developer for their use and benefit. But it's currently not a city asset. That's we're turning the city. It's owned by the city. The property is an asset. Yes, that land is a city asset. It is, but it's not improved at the moment. Correct. And so they're offering to improve it. Correct. Yeah. So the easement is only going to be the portion between the buildings. The rest is privately owned. That's my understanding.

The easement is just from their door to this public property. Right. So, um I'm just looking at the T tax parcel viewer and that that whole piece of property is owned by the city of Traverse City. Okay. Right now. Yeah. From up to the Indigo Wall from Garland to Grand Parkway except for M. Eastman. Okay.

Any other comments before I open it up? Brian. Um, so I mean it's not like the city is required to put a sidewalk in there, okay? There's no requirement for the city to do this. Um, it is being it's needed because there needs to be uh access to the fire door and for the fire department. And that's why you have windows on there. And the really asset of this uh to the both properties is the fact that they don't have to have a firewall because the buildings aren't abudding each other. They've got a 25- foot public right away that or whatever easement or whatever the city owns ownership of that utility. It's really it's a utility property that goes between it. So that's the value of it. And that value is the same value as putting having a street or any other sidewalk or alley there. It could have been turned into an alley. It's technically wide enough. Uh I mean if you want to talk about using a public asset um Indigo got that. See a big thing on the left those utility access that was a a lastm minute thing because they didn't realize they weren't planning on putting it there. Then they had to put it there. It's the same reason we're here today is because technically if the city said no to an easement, they'd literally have to redesign their building to get past fire code, which is ridiculous because I think a pathway through here is about the best you're going to get. Okay, I don't see you can't do anything else with this property.

And I would like to point out that the CIP for a year or more from now, it they I understand that. I'm not arguing the pathway issue. We understand that it's a part of the pathway. It makes sense to use it as that. I have no issues with that. Someone did mention when you guys said water, I thought a water filling station there would be really nice. Really great community neighborhood asset. I don't think there's one very close. Uh so anyways, just throwing that out there. Um noted. Noted.

And again, it's, you know, like I said, I I just you know it's more a question for planning commissioners is simply this is that you know if you looked at that and you said okay and you asked the city what's it going to cost the city taxpayer to maintain that property and then you have to say okay we're going to put a highmaintenance project in the city somewhere okay it's going to require a lot of maintenance it's going to call require to keep looking good it's going to require regular weeding light bulb replacement, uh, two-phase snow removal. If you were going to put it somewhere in the city, is this where you would invest those funds? In other words, would this be the proper location? And my answer to that would be no. Okay, this would not be the proper location for that. However, if a public entity is willing to take this on and literally bind themselves to the land on a maintenance agreement to continue to maintain these and change the replace the light strings when they fail, uh, light bulbs, whatever. Um, and take all that on, then it's really then the only question for the city is, uh, how wide do you want a sidewalk? I think nine feet's perfect. So again, my issue is if I was doing it, I would have fewer planters so I'd have some place to stick the snow in the winter. That's just my thought. Uh and or so wherever you have shovel and it doesn't have to lift it over the planters to shovel up against the wall. That's how I would do it. But hey, you guys going to figure this out. That's up to the city and everyone else. So, I'd like to put I I mean, I'm concerned about the maintenance, but I will trust that our commissioners here

will express there is concern about I don't know if we need to add a amendment to that that this is, you know, that we feel this with the maintenance handled by the applicant. We've already heard that the design team has addressed that. We've already heard from the developers that they are they don't have finished maintenance agreement that it's in the easement. No, it's not in the It's not in there yet. They don't have anything finalized. It's in the works. It's I mean it's not final. Yeah. So So we could add to a finalized maintenance agreement. I think that's micromanaging. Yeah. I

I think it's implied that staff knows that this is needed as a requirement for this lot. They'll have to do a maintenance plan. They know that it's in the works. I think us adding that is micromanaging. It's also when you get back to this question, it's consistent or inconsistent with the master plan. Well, part of it is also our documentation.

I mean, we don't really we kind of just always just kind of go, "Okay, go ahead." And then little details come back to us and you know, or things that happened that we weren't expecting. And then how do you say well we didn't know they were going to do that because we just talked about whether it was in inconsistent to put a park here. We didn't look at how the park was going to look

or what trees were going to get cut down etc. So you know and that question becomes do we want to be should we have should we be micromanaging these? So for example there's nothing in our packet that says how wide this sidewalk could be. It could be, you know, you could they could make it 14 feet because and we would have said that would have been acceptable. If it was a 16 foot wide sidewalk, would that be acceptable to everyone? Where in the master plan does it say that a 14oot sidewalk is inconsistent with the master plan?

I would question there's I would say basically because if you talk look at it, we also talk about all sorts of things about the natural environment is very important to us including in the downtown storm water. attention to storm water is very important to us. I would think that that would be too much hard service and pvious pavement for us to ignore the issue of impous pavement and something regarding consistency with the master plan

if is I I think would be very shortsighted. I would say it would make it inconsistent with the master plan. I'm just saying that what we saw here tonight that this is part of the presentation, part of it, then I'm okay with it. But none of that is in writing. And in government, if it's not in writing, it doesn't exist. So, it's not in our packet. It's not part of the It's not part of the record that we're approving tonight. I do have a motion on the table, so I'd like to bring it back. Yes, I can order. I don't think the discussion is complete. Well, I first we first have to hear from the public too, but I'm not sure commission discussion is complete. I have

comment that I'd like to add. Okay.

Um, as a commission, we have oversight responsibilities. I would I would argue that due diligence is very different from micromanagement. I would agree with Commissioner McGillary that there have been surprises in the past and frankly I'm um disturbed by the idea of the very narrow guard rails that that are being placed upon us as a commission. Um I I agree with Commissioner G McGillivary that our master plan addresses in has an entire chapter on environment. So yes, that is a legitimate issue to be discussing and I am concerned about the impact of adding even more imperous surfaces in between our bay and our river. So duly noted please we open up for public comment. Okay. Is there any public comment on this item? Please come to the podium if there is. Okay. There's no public comment, so I'll bring it back to you. We have a motion on the table with a second. Are there any final comments before we vote, Mitch?

Yes. Uh well, on term on the terms of the motion, uh we can say that we find a uh pathway through here consistent with master plan. Undoubtedly is, but that is not the way the motion is worded. is motion to affirm the proposed public private project by JS capital to improve the city own property. So I would say that both that and the specific terms of location character and extent do allow us to evaluate this as a specific project rather than the mere existence of an easement in conjunction with uh other plans. uh I find on its face a pathway through here to be uh patently aligned with our uh master plan with our CIP with other documents. I find the general outline of this and how it looks in pictures on a nice summer day to be overall pleasing, but it does bring up questions of maintenance, uh, snow removal, vegetation, clearing, a replacement of light bulbs. Yes. Uh there are strings of lights uh that look much the same across Garland Street and multiple other places, but uh by putting two tall um solid wall buildings next to each other, it will serve to funnel any um north wind to an even greater extent. Uh yes, prevailing winds are out of the west, but we can have strong north breezes in the face of u supertorrm Sandy some 15 years ago. Uh winds were in um in excess of 60 miles an hour and it

could be uh over 70 funneled between two buildings like this. uh which yes, lights will survive most conditions, but that wind will knock out some and um entail significant maintenance over a longer period of time. And the developer said they would do that.

I'd like that in writing. Also, uh especially if you're going to have more traffic in here, especially if you're going to have people sitting on benches, I would like to see some trash cans. Uh there are only three public trash bins along Garland Street at present. Uh and during hight traffic times of year, they can get overflowing more often than other parts of our downtown. So uh yes uh trash is something that any hotel or other business has to deal with and a simple matter of a trash bin or two uh I'd say is something that can be easily added

rendering but thank you. Thank you.

Uh question for staff. So, is this presentation they made today part of the record? Yes. Okay. So, when we approve this, this is part of the record. Yes. Because there's details in here that was not in our packet. So, when we're voting on this, we're voting on what's in our packet and this presentation. Um, we can make it part of the record. Yes, I want it. If you ask for it to be part of the record, we can Does that require an amendment or a motion? No, I think we can add it to the record. Thank you.

Anything else you want from staff? Um, I'm just looking again at the the act that does require that the planning commission determine if there's consistency with the master plan. And it does say that um basically if the planning commission uh disapproves, the commission shall submit its reasons for approval or disapproval to the body having jurisdiction. Um, and so the the city commission has ultimate jurisdiction. So this is sort of in a roundabout way a recommendation.

I know the city commission always has the it's just a way to get it up there. But you know, it doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss it and no make our recommendations. But I I guess what I'm asking is reasons uh might be appropriate. Reasons are appropriate. I think reasons are that they're going to beautify this area. We find the pathway appropriate, right? The pathway is appropriate. Do we need to put this in part of a motion the reasons or do you just want us to state that why?

I think it's particularly if you're uh recommending not approving, I would uh state the reasons, right? um for the record and as uh as part of the motion um but actually I'm not going to vote no so I'm not worried about the no okay this is I mean I I am and I apologize to the applicants for keeping you into the Michigan State Kentucky game tonight I'm certainly not happy about it but anyways

but it it's a more for me it's more of a an issue issue a philosophical or a question on how we review these going forward um as much as it is this particular project in front of us. I mean look it it's beautiful. It looks beautiful. I understand these are just renderings and they never look as nice. Um but uh in the sometimes they look better but they're just renderings. Uh we're not voting on the pictures. I understand that. Um, but I appreciate the willingness, the amount of effort you've put into this, um, you know, going forward. Uh, I do appreciate it and it's I mean, you could have done a lot less or proposed a lot less and probably gotten gotten it from the city commission. So, um, pardon,

can we redraw it? No, because it's gorgeous stuff. No, look, if you guys want to redraw it and come back to us with with more, you know, want the neighborhood to be so, you know, that's,

you know, that's fine. That's And you guys, um, you know, I just, you know, I would list the I mean, let's give them the reasons we're approving it. I guess one is, I mean, for me, their willingness to do the maintenance, to be bound to do the maintenance. Um, two, it's part of the long-term pathway plan. Uh, three, it beautifies what is otherwise an undeveloped, unused corridor. Four, it pro it's designed with safety in mind of the ballers. Kudos to staff to come up with that. Um, I love the extensions of the plantings so it's not a blind corner, uh, which is shown on these plants. Um, you know, because people do ride their bikes in downtown streets and they come out of nowhere, um, uh, you know, down these things. So, I think those are, you know, and you're painting the uh you're proposing to paint all the transformers pretty color

art, public art. So, no, I mean, so you're you know, you're adding nature to the downtown. So, I like as long as it's um I think the sidewalk width is adequate. Um I don't think it's overkill. uh and you're providing you know you're using roughly uh you know about a third of impervious um so yeah I think you're I can't think of any other reasons all right thank you any other comments before we vote

there's a just a one question uh with regard to the safety of Ballard is it anticipated that Those will be designed to be like removed or you can you know usually they collapse and you can pull them up. That's not the case. No, they're they're permanent fixed fixed items. Okay. Yeah, because how does that affect snow removal? There's there's space to go around them. Okay. All right. We have a motion on the table. I think we've discussed this. Um all in favor? I. All oppose? No. Roll call vote, please. Commissioner Anderson, no. Commissioner Deter, yes. Commissioner Hershey,

yes. Commissioner McGillivary, yes. Commissioner O'Brien, yes. Commissioner Treadwell, yes. Commissioner Swanson, yes. Motion carries. Thank you very very much. You put in a lot of thought into this and and the surrounding neighborhood. We appreciate that. Thank you. We appreciate your time. Thank you. My 10th meeting about the same development.

Okay. Uh that's the only item we had tonight. Are there any announcements from anyone? No announcements. That takes us to closing public comment. Does anyone have a closing public comment? Please approach the podium. Seeing none, this meeting uh any comment from commission? Seeing none, this meeting's adjourned. Thank you everybody for your time.