Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

forgot to No, I didn't even go. I know. But what if somebody took it thinking you were going to go and left it there? Yeah. Your name? Yeah. Maybe that's like uh what's that show? Sean gave you the reaction that you wanted. Was it Office Space when they like fix the glitch? They like kind of move and just stop paying them. It's like we just like took the name tag away, but she just keeps showing up. There she is. We will begin in one mine has all the broken glass on front back because in fact I'm glad to see that because I was I just had my back glass have a destroyed phone.

Is that your work phone? No, I don't have one. I opted not to. I had two phones. Um I've had two phones before and I don't like it. Yeah, it was nice at Becca Raider because uh it was true. They wanted I could either get money for my phone or take a work phone, but since this isn't a Northern Michigan phone number, it's a Virginia one. I'll take the work phone, but I could use the same Apple ID. So, I just kept it in my bag. If someone called that, it would show up on Yeah, but I still have to carry it around. Yeah, you do. Ready, Mitch? Yeah.

All right. I'm going to call this meeting to order. Welcome to the Traverse City Planning Commission's regular meeting. It's August 5th and we're going to start with the land acknowledgement. The land in which we gather is the territory of the Ottawa and Chippoa peoples who have stewarded this land throughout the generations. Thank you for your strength and resilience in protecting this land and inspiring us to un uphold our responsibilities to do the same. Roll call. Is somebody doing the roll call? I'll do it. Okay. Commissioner Anderson here. Commissioner Knap here. Commissioner McGillary. Uh, Commissioner Treadwell here. Commissioner O'Brien here. Commissioner Duri

here. Uh, and Commissioner Hershey here. And we also have joining us tonight, um, Maxwell Cameron, exeicio representing Grand Traverse County. And we are expecting uh as far as we know, Commissioner McGillary, but both Swanson and Heler are absent and excused tonight. Thank you. Are there any announcements?

Yeah, just one. On your desk, we have printed out the prescriptive portion of the master plan that was adopted last year. That is the part that guides the planning commission the most with the action plan, the future land use map. Um, we did not ask if everyone wanted a paper copy. If you choose not to want a paper copy, just leave it on your table when you leave and we'll put it back in our library so future planning commissioners will have the option for a paper copy as well. But if you do choose to take it, it is yours to keep. You can have it with you. Um, we did not print for everyone the supplemental report. If you recall, it's quite comprehensive. Um, we actually had to print it in two volumes because the binding wouldn't uh take well enough. But we do have copies of those, hard copies rather, in the office on display for people to come in to read and of course it's on the website. And same thing with the mobility action plan, but the recommendations from the mobility action plan were baked into the portion that is before you. That's the actionable part to guide the planning commission's decision-m.

Thank you. It looks beautiful and I think it'd be nice to use it. Me give Katie a lot of credit with her graphic design background. She worked quite a bit with the uh printing company to get that all squared away. Any other announcements? None for me. Okay. So, we're going to approve uh move to number five, approval of minutes. Approval of the May 6 draft regular meeting minutes, the April 15th draft study session minutes, and the May 20th and June 17th draft special meeting minutes. Do I have a motion? I'll move to approve all of the meeting minutes. Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. All in favor?

All opposed? Motion carries. That takes us to number six, old business. Public hearing and consideration of a planning commission initiated zoning text amendment to extend the duration of approval for conditional resonings in section 1320.05J and possible recommendation to the city commission. So, um, the public hearing is now open and Mr. winter. What do you have to say on this?

Yeah, so this is a zoning text amendment that was initiated by the planning commission after receiving a request from John Collins who had previously been approved for a conditional reszoning and he expressed that he's still working on it, but the timeline he wasn't able to get his plans together um to move forward with construction yet. It was brought up through discussion by the planning commission a desire to explore possibly extending those timelines. So, we brought that back in June and had a discussion. We had a couple different options. One option would be to just eliminate the conditional reszoning from the zoning ordinance, which is something we talked about. Leave the um timelines as they are or go ahead and extend them. And based on the feedback that we heard from the planning commission, the desire was to keep it in there yet extend it. So instead of being 75% done at two years and 100% at three, we bump that all one year out with the option for two one-year extensions authorized administratively by the planning director. But after that, they have to then come back to the planning commission and city commission if they need to extend beyond that. There were some questions raised uh that related to the city attorney. So I sat and talked with her on some of these. Um she still has her concerns. Uh she said I could share this with you all, but if this comes to the city commission, she will probably be recommending to them again that they remove it from the zoning ordinance. Um it's still an option in state law, but the city commission doesn't have to accept that. Um some of the concerns that exist as it relates to this is zoning travels with the land. So the fact that this has an expiration is not consistent with zoning as is outlined in the zoning enabling act. Furthermore, if you have 75% construction at two or three years, wherever we decide on, um, you're vested at that point. The courts are gonna not necessarily allow the city to

decommission that. You've invested into that project. So, um, I just bring that up because again, she talked about that. Uh, if the planning commission wanted to follow suit with that and decide to possibly explore removing it from the zoning ordinance, it would require a separate public hearing. I talked with her this afternoon about it because that's not what was included in the public notice. There was also concerns about the existing contracts because conditional reasonzoning is a contract. She expressed no concern with that because those contracts that are existing have already been executed so they're memorialized. Um and as far as the opportunity for the extensions that are in the proposed amendment, she said that would just be written into the future uh contracts if this was to be approved. I think that's it.

Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anybody from the public who would like to make a comment on this matter? Okay. So, I'm going to close the public hearing and now bring it back to this body for any questions or comments. Ryan. Um, Mr. winner. Does the city attorney just oppose the concept of contract zoning or is in its entirety or does she simply oppose these changes?

She does not oppose these changes. Um she said she had no problem with those changes. I think I think there's some legal liability that comes with it as I mentioned like the idea that you can cancel a building when it's say only 70 70% done. like she's like they're going to be vested. We can't really enforce that. Um that was her one thing. Um it's also what she said is and we've discussed this in June. Oftentimes conditional reasoning is just used to get around limitations in the zoning ordinance. And she's like if that's the problem then let's address the standards. That's a more clear way um to address this. And I've I've noticed that in the 10 years since I moved back. There's been some times where it's like, well, we we want a conditional reasoning because we want to drive through here and this district doesn't allow them. So,

what if it's simply they they can't get the funding, but it's nothing like that that, you know, they're going for grants or whatever and and they they can't get it in the time frame, then what happens? I mean, according to the language, it sounds like it could be cancelled, right?

It could be voided. Whether that's legal standing or not is something that she would have to which is again I think why she thinks it's cleaner just to to have that gone. She also noted that the act says that you may have it. You're not required to have it. Also the zoning enabling act is pretty specific in how zoning works, but if you ever looked at it for conditional resoning, it's about two sentences. So it doesn't provide a lot of direction to municipalities and how they're supposed to operate legally within that piece of legislation. Sorry, Brian. Go ahead, David.

Sean, sorry. Um, she's going to look to strike the extension language.

No, but if this comes to her, comes to the city commission as a recommendation to extend these. It'll be up to the city commission to enact those or not. But she said she would express her through probably cover memo that her recommendation would be just to eliminate it completely from the ordinance. Now, whether the city commission wants to go that route or the planning commission wants to go that route, it has to go back through the public hearing process. So, if the city commission supports that and says, "You know what? Yeah, maybe we do want to consider giving it. They're going to have to kick it back to you. You're going to have to hold a public hearing." So, you know, I think it's really up to you as a body what you feel is the most appropriate. You send it to the city commission and they will um they'll have a discussion on it with their attorney and figure out where they want to go from there.

Ryan. Okay. My feeling is simply it's a tool. We have lots of tools. Some we use a lot. Some we don't use hardly ever. We don't go and we're not going through our zoning ordinance and eliminating everything that only gets used rarely. I mean, if we were going to do that, we you know, how often do we do PUDs just did one, but before that, last one was what? Morgan Farms. We've got what? Uh, we did the senior center about a year and a half ago. But you're right, they're rare. I think Fairway Hills, Morgan Farms, um couple down by Greyville as you head that way. Some of those were PUBs, but yeah, it is a pretty rare one.

So, that being said, the other thing is I understand it can be used as a way to get around this existing zoning, but that's on us as a planning commission. If we don't like it then or if we just think it's getting around reszoning the property, then we can make adjustments. Sometimes in this case, this last case, it's being used as a tool to satisfy concerns by the neighbors. Okay. So, and that makes and it's and that's a legitimate use of that as a tool. He wants to come in, he wants to put in something. The zoning allows him to put in something that is goes beyond his plans that the neighbors find offensive. And as a result of that, he's going to eliminate those options from his plans at any time. And in the past, if a project doesn't go forward, we simply resend it. And it's pretty much goes Sean would talk to the applicant. If the applicant's abandoning the project, they would just send a notice or not going to do it. And then we vote, hold a public hearing, and reverse it. It's bulky. It's not, you know, but it's not like controversial. I think this is uh addresses the issue with what tool we have and does get used and it also is um you know and it's the 75% thing. I have no idea about that. I don't know if it's important or not. Honestly, if if somebody is 70% going and they're progressing and they're okay with, you know, and they're getting extensions from the uh building department, then it's good. But if they're I think by extending this time, it addresses a tool. the city commission wants to

remove it or if you guys want to remove it, then somebody needs to, you know, then that's a vote that should have been taken and we should have made that decision at the beginning of this, not at this point.

Um, I'm a no vote on this purely for standards reasons. I I think I asked Sean at the last meeting that we talked about this, you know, how many other cities have this or how many other municipalities have something like this and you know, I should have emailed you, Sean, earlier to ask if you could come up with some kind of data for that information. Um, but I just think that we should just get rid of it entirely. And I I would love to go through all of the zoning ordinances and decide which ones we should get rid of. Um, but this one's on our plate right now. I think we have an opportunity to uh kind of streamline the process and create a little less work for us. The the developer can do whatever they can, you know, like I know pot shops was the big thing, right? He can decide that he doesn't want to have a pot shop in that building that he builds. That's up to him without the conditional reasoning. And yes, I understand that like the conditional reasoning travels with the the land sale and everything, but you know, like it we just don't know what's going to happen in 10 years. So, I guess like why are we I just don't want to I'm tired of creating work for ourselves, I think, is what it really comes down to. It's a lot of work. I mean, and and Brian, you even pointed out that we rescended one recently. So like I think that's re that's caused enough to like talk about getting rid of it entirely. I I don't you know like I'm a novo end of story.

I mean the reason it was rescended was simply because the developer decided um they got they wasn't going to work for them. The project wasn't going to work. So um but uh financially and they just they changed their mind on it. They weren't a normal developer. was actually a law firm and they just decided it was more than they wanted to fight off so they backed out. Um but again it was an opportunity for them to uh address something in by adding housing to the city in an area next to a commercial building but that was also next to residential in a very controversial time. And it was the purpose of it was to instead of asking for a full out reszoning by doing a contract contract reszone. They were able to address some but not all of the neighbors concerns. I think that's what it gets used for here at for the most part. It's an ability and it's an opportunity for people instead of coming asking for a straight resoning to basically to you know to get something that you know allows them to put something in that the city may desire but the neighbors may oppose but because every zoning basically allows you to build whatever you want under zoning. So when you upzone something, you can go to the limit. And whether or not he the developer wants to go to the limit or not, that's up to the developer. But if he puts these self-limits on themselves, you know, it's easier for them to get it through than asking us for a full resone because maybe we don't agree with everything that's allowed under a full

resone, but we're okay with what they want to do. And it's just like I said, it's just another tool. Um, you know, and I think the one, you know, the last one over on uh Mson was it was a weird one. I'll be honest, you know, but our but if we have the ordinance, the timing is, you know, I think we're at this t bottom line, last I'll say, I just think it these times we have are in right now, we need to give developers, builders, um, as much flexibility as possible and not take away tools from them.

And I think that's what we were talking about at the last meeting. you know, trades are hard to find and materials are going up in cost and so there's delays and that was accommodating for this was accommodating for the time we're in. So, couldn't couldn't it be argued that getting rid of it though is doing the same thing like like cuz

unless the entirety of that project hinges on the neighbors being okay with it, which I think in this particular instance I kind of got that vibe, but I would agree that I think getting rid of it would probably do the thing. Um, unless somebody is trying very very hard to to accommodate neighboring properties.

I don't really have an opinion either way. Um, I It's kind of weird, but is it possible for us to This is going to be funny. So, I really um it is really time consuming when we go through this whole process as a board and we pass it up to the city and then the city says no. Do the other thing that we had also talked about and considered. Can we start the process on the other one and pass them both up and let them choose

so that because there's I don't know. I feel like there's enough five going both directions. It would save time. I just don't know if you can do that. Yeah. I mean, that's a very interesting proposal. My gut would be probably not. That can be very confusing that you're noticing two different potential amendments to the same section of the zoning ordinance.

So, I would recommend maybe not doing that. I know it is frustrating that things sometimes move slow, but that's that's also by design. Yeah. For notice and transparency and stuff. So, I mean, I think there was a very robust discussion. I hear both sides right now. I think you've noticed this public hearing. As I said, the attorney noted that she would most likely bring this up, her recommendation to the city commission. We don't know if the city commission is going to support that recommendation, right? You know, so it's hard to guess from your vantage point what they're going to support. It may be best to to send this up. I think you put a lot of good faith, time, and thought into it and how it can be a better tool on the topic of having options

and see what they say. You know, I mean, that's kind of the reality of some of these situations. They may say, "Yep, this makes perfect sense." Or it may start a conversation at that level where they think maybe a different direction needs to go and then they send it back. And those are just options and how the process can work.

Yeah. And I'd say it's our duty as this body and I guess I'm speaking as somebody that serves on both the planning commission and the city commission. Uh we have put in time and effort, staff has put in time and effort in the discussion of this and examining how we've used it. And I would say it's our duty uh to then pass it up to the city commission and then at that point the city attorney can weigh in publicly and we can we being Jackie and I and the rest of the city commissioners can decide uh what we want to do. We can choose to act on this as written or we can amend it or we can send it back with notes and yeah I don't want to speak for the whole board in saying what their decision would be. I can see a case uh at that point of saying okay the recommendation is to just get rid of this entirely. We can do that or if we uh want uh we have hear for example strong um voice from the public that in the need for transparency with larger scale uh developments that fall under this uh zoning process. and going through the processes currently written does have more public hearings.

Um, so if we pass this up, the city commission can just decide to remove conditional reszones or does that still have to come back down to us and go back? That would have to come down. So the city commission can't take action on on any zoning until the planning commission has held a public hearing on it. So they can initiate any amendment they want. They can amend this any any way they want. Yeah, they can tweak it, but like if if if it's outside the spirit of what was noticed, which was extending the the timelines, um then

I think the recommendation is going to be do the notice again. It's better to be safe to be sorry. I think you're going to probably see a tightening of procedures. So, there may be some procedural amendments coming to you. Um I think that's part of the concern about this. Uh I mentioned the the liability issue. As you're probably aware, one of our neighboring jurisdictions had a uh unfavorable lawsuit handed down through some subjective decision-making. So, you're probably going to see more um clearly defined black and white standards uh being advocated moving forward just to protect the city and its liability.

Are are there nonzoning tools that would enable a property owner to convey some of the benefits to neighbors for instance that we've found so persuasive in this situation like um deed restrictions

I mean if there in terms of the number of tools that are available I know different tools but if we're trying to incent uh neighbor sensitive behavior why and there's another route for that property owner to take to accomplish that um just just a just a comment slash suggestion

I would say I mean deed restrictions are there we can't require a deed restriction obviously um I I think Brian may have thoughts on this I had a planning commission chair who was a realtor who had very strong opinions about deed restrictions because they they are there forever and they're one of the hardest things to get away so like for instance at the end of division street or sorry at the end of 14th in division What was the fifth Third Bank? Tom's used to own that. So, there's deed restrictions on that property. It can't sell fried chicken. It can't sell shrimp. It can't sell produce. You know, it's like it's kind of weird. And that made it sense for competition for that property owner 50 years ago, but it may not be in the city's best interest for what that corner could handle in the future. So, I don't think you'll often hear um planners or attorneys advocating that as the most effective tool. You know, we had a situation before I started working at the city. The the city manager um probably about 2017 pulled a lot of regional planners together to talk about some railroad properties and there were so many layers of deed restrictions that had been put on some of these properties. It kind of made it impossible to do anything with unless we could get it into a land blank and uh clear the title on it. So,

hi. So, I'm developing a property. You don't like I put a deed restriction on it. I come to the city, tell them about the deed restriction. I get the resoning. I then go in after I got my resoning and I remove the deed restriction. The other question for a deed restriction is who enforces the deed restriction.

So you would have to transfer it to a third party. Otherwise, the enforcement is the person who granted it who can amend it, change it, remove it at any time they want. So deed restrictions are usually they're added onto a property when the property is sold. The person who puts that on the deed restriction still has the ability to enforce it and they are as they are unwieldy and difficult to enforce. Um that um quick question if the uh if the I the whole 75% complete thing if is that something that the uh we could strike or the city commission could strike. I think you could probably strike that in your recommendation and I would note that in the memo and then if the city attorney has an issue it would come up during the city commission meeting that maybe it needs to come back. But I I think that is within the spirit of what was noticed. So I think you could do that. You might want to and honestly I think that would be easier for us to administer. Either a building has the occupancy occupancy permit at some point or it doesn't. Seven people could argue whether a building's at 75% 72% 73%. You know, it's it's not very black and white. It becomes very subjective into how you make that determination. And we've seen with the property about a 100 yards to the north of us uh next to the park place how contentious when it gets into the courtroom what it counts as a building has substantially started completion I mean started development even

so if we have something like an occupancy permit that is a clear black and white then that does uh remove the greyness Yeah, you could change the language to just say that, you know, an occup occupancy permit has to be received or obtained within four years or you can get two one-year extensions administratively or then come back to the planning commission. Actually, really like that. Mhm. I am open to this, but I don't know if I want to do this tonight

and whether or not it's something that would be better off having staff review and bring back to us. I So, I would be happy to do that. Um, I would like a little more clear direction on what you want me to look into. Um, what that would allow me to do is with the city attorney on the threshold of whether she thinks that requires another public hearing at which point we'll just schedule that for the next regular meeting. So when it comes back to you if a hearing is required it'll be it'll be scheduled and on the agenda. Maxwell something to say.

Just just a comment I I don't get to vote. So the um the 75 and 100% completion was the thing that I would be most uh apprehensive about with these changes. So I I think that you guys are having a really great conversation about uh maybe making a clear a line that's more clearly defined and a certificate of occupancy, you know, could be that. Um so I think that that's a good discussion. What do you all think about Sean's suggestion of of not voting on it tonight and giving it back to staff to work on it for a recommendation to come back to us?

So, I'm in favor of it. Um, you know, if there's a majority who are against it, uh, we're kind of we're a small group tonight. Yeah. Um, so I have no problem waiting bring it back in September and addressing it then. Does anybody have an objection to that? I just don't want it to. So, we already granted the approval for the certain property owners. Yeah. So, there's only one. So, this is just for the this would be moving forward. Yeah. So, that one that

hasn't started and isn't completed obviously yet. Um they've been approved by the city commission as well. So, this will have no bearing really on their project at this time. Um, so yeah, there's nothing hinging on a decision tonight is the point. So we could easily I could have more internal discussion on some of the things I've heard today um and work with the chair on some of that um and bring it back at the September meeting if that is the goal of the commission.

I could go either way. I just don't want to waste staff's time. So if we have a really clear directive, I think that's great. Um but if we because in theory we could go through that. We could wait till September, then pass it up, and the city commission could still send it back for more work. So, if so, my guess is the city attorney's never been a fan.

Uh this, you know, planning director's never been a fan. They've never approached uh um no one has actually taken it to the city commission and asked them to eliminate it. Uh when there was a fight over that where you live, which and then you know that would have been a time for them to think hey let's just get out of this

and there's been no movement in that direction so I think this just improves it again it's a tool I don't know and as for direction why don't we why do we even need to have 100% completion why don't we just say that have that project has to be have been we have a uh a there is a standard for vesting, right?

So, generally, I think it's when footings are in the ground. So, you know, footing's in the ground. Once someone starts a project, they're pretty much going to go forward with it, you know, and at that point, if it doesn't happen, someone else can come along and do it. But if they never start the project, it should, you know, end. My concern is not about how long is about starting the project, waiting it. completing it. Once someone starts it, they generally complete it. We haven't had we've had some holes, but even then, but I don't even know that those were tied to a conditional reason. They were separate issues, you know. Yeah. So, um

we've had some holes when we have some work, but we've never had Well, maybe they did. I don't know. There's part it's possible one of those the building on park and they might have started footings, but I don't think so. I think he just put the Usually they build dig the hole, they tear down the other building and they get upset about the inability to do what they want to do because of zoning and they dig up their blocks and go home.

So one thing you could do, yeah, is get rid of those percents. Maybe not have maybe not focus on the completion but the actual starting of it. So maybe it's just simple as you know what you have five years to get your footings in the ground. That's it. Maybe there's no need for extension. I mean, five years to get footings on the ground. If you're coming to ask for a conditional reasoning, it seems like that would be somewhat reasonable. Um, I don't know. It's just an idea. I'd like that myself. I like that too. You know, after five years it expires because you haven't started. I mean, our land use permits expire after a year or two of

and then there's no, it doesn't put the city organization in a difficult situation of making a 75% call that someone's going to challenge us legally on because they think it's 76% or something. You know, after five years, they can come back and ask us again. So, we don't need an extension. Just get five years. Do it or don't. Get the foot pudding's in the ground. Makes a lot easier. you know, easier, a lot less complicated and you know, and I think five years makes sense as a number because aren't we required to review our master plan every five years? So things that's kind of a in planning that's a mark where something might change.

Good point. How's everybody else feel about that?

Personally, I would like to see some number. Yes. 75% is a number or an occupant is not a number but it's still a benchmark uh towards the mo mostly completed end of it because uh though we haven't seen a problem with it in this community I have seen it in other communities where you can have a process that has um a lot of the permitting process and zoning lined up for a specific development and the development starts and then peters out and you're left with something that uh now is less suitable to future development uh because it's got a half-built building on it.

Bit too confusing then to say the footings are in the ground by a certain time and the completion is by a certain time and occupancy is by a certain time. But if it's not completed, what are you going to do? Like you said, you get back into the whole vesting question. So, someone comes in, they start a project, they run out of money, they go bankrupt, the developer dies, there's a major issue, they sell out the project,

um, you know, and now you're going to pull the zoning away because it's not complete. Does that mean it's more or less likely that the project is going to be continued by someone else and finished? I think it makes it less likely. You know, we've got the zoning. These is the zoning. These are the conditions. If a new developer comes in, it doesn't do anything. The zoning does not impact the ability of a developer to finish a project. He's got a project. He's doing a project. If something happens that, you know, and we yanked the zoning away, what does that do? Just makes the project less likely to be completed by a new developer or someone else. it sits there. It's not because we've taken the zoning away. Does that make it easier for us now to go in and force them to remove it or do something else? I think if they get to that point, it's pretty much, you know, you start getting into, you know, there's all sorts of other issues or questions there, but generally it just gets to sit there, you know, unless the city wants to sue them. And I don't think the zoning question makes it less likely. I think it's just, you know, like I said, it's not a tool that gets used a lot. But I think in general, you've, you know, I just don't see the zoning playing in with that that question. Well, I've heard two things now. One is uh uh footings in the ground within a certain number of years. One is give it back to staff and send back some recommendations. Does everybody feel?

I want to send it back to staff. I think that's clear. But you're okay with that, Anna? Sending it back? Yeah, I'm fine with that as long as we're considering the recommendation of removal of conditional reszones as one of those potential options because then we can get more feedback from Lauren and more feedback from you on other regional municipalities. I would like that. I think that's a good idea. Everybody think that's a good idea?

Well, I'd like to move this up to the city commission. I might be in the minority here, but uh there has been a certain amount of staff time and discussion. Um, the city commission could have further uh points that they want uh staff to work on. And um that could uh move it along closer to something that we can actually have completed rather than having it go from us to staff, then back to us, then to the city commission, then back to staff, then back to us, back to city We have to take a vote on whether it goes to staff.

There's no motion. So if there's no motion, we move forward or someone needs to make a motion. Do you need Do you need a motion to table it? Does it What's table? I would defer. Okay. The word. Yeah, it does make it clear and gives us direction. There is a motion on the record. So, there could be a motion to defer. I'll make a motion to defer and have staff review and bring back recommendations. That's what I just said. Okay. So, I had a motion by Brian. Second. Second by David. All in favor? I oppose. No.

A roll call vote. Uh, Commissioner O'Brien. No. Redwell. No. McGillary, yes. Nap, yes. Anderson, yes. Yes. And Hershey, yes. So, we've got five yeses, two no carries. Well, thank you. That was a good discussion. Yeah.

Yeah, you gave us a lot of good feedback. So, I'll take that up with the attorney. Um, we'll come up with some ideas. I'll probably be working with the chair and vice chair on that. Okay, let's move on to new business. The natural features inventory presentation of our fantastic interns. Would you like to gonna queue this up? Yes, I'll queue it up, but bear with us. We have some uh technology to boot up and we're going to do a little seat changing real quick. So, okay.

While they're doing that, um this presentation you're going to have is the natural features inventory. as you know that we had three interns working with us this summer. I'll have them introduce themselves momentarily with where they go to school and all that where they're from. Um we had a variety of tasks that they worked on including helping us with our application for the bicycle friendly communities, the AARP aging friendly community I think it was called. Um couple other long-term projects, learning a lot about how planning and zoning works within the department. But we also had this longer range plan, the national features inventory. And so there's a lot of data that we have out there. And so their primary objective was to create a baseline, a starting point where we've pulled all this data into one location that we can view it, the public can view it, and we can have a better understanding of all these different natural features elements that exist within the city. And then the second objective is this is um just getting to familiarize themselves with the city's data and using GIS as a great tool that it is. So with that, I want to also acknowledge and thank our city planning commissioner Jerry Swanson and his employee Jacob Weston and the IT and GIS departments because they were very instrumental in providing guidance and technical support to our interns. And so with that, I will turn it over to them.

Great. Thanks, Sean. Um thanks for having us. My name is Ted Arnold. Um I some of you may recognize me. I was the student liaison to this body a couple years ago. Um so it's really great to be back with you all and back in the city. Um I'm a senior rising senior at George Washington University studying political science. Um so I'll be graduating this May. Um it's been really great to spend the summer here and really excited to present the natural fugitives inventory to you.

And I'm Cole Maxon. I'm a lifelong resident of Traverse City. I go to Michigan State University. Um, and I'm a grad student in urban and regional planning. Um, for the past two years, I've been bouncing around various internships in various city functions. So, two years ago with Nicole Vaness in parking services, last year with Jerry Swanson in GIS, and this summer with Shawn, Leslie, and Dave. And it's it's been great. Love being here.

Hi, my name is Olivia Ned. I am also a graduate student at MSU studying urban and regional planning. I am originally from Grand Rapids, but I was fortunate enough to find an internship and a place to live here in Traverse City for the summer. Great. So, today we wanted to share with you a bit about one of our projects that we worked on this summer. That is the Traverse City Natural Futures Inventory Story Map and subsequent standalone map. If you have never used a story map before, it's a tool that integrates interactive maps with other multimedia such as text and images. and it's a great tool for adding context and narrative to traditional mapmaking. Our story map combines maps, text, and images to tell a story about the natural features that exist within the 8.3 square miles of Traverse City. This resource will serve as an interactive guide designed to help our city better understand, protect, and plan in harmony with the remarkable natural features that define the characteristics of Northwest Michigan. The city is home to a unique and wide array of natural features including rolling hills, steep slopes, forest, lake shores, and wetlands. These features provide critical ecological functions, scenic beauty, and recreational opportunities. As the city continues to grow and change, it is essential that we plan thoughtfully and guided by data and a commitment to stewardship and sustainability. The story map is designed to be more than just an inventory of natural features found within the city limits. It is also meant to be an interactive narrative meant to inspire future informed land use decisions that promote sustainability, conscious development, and environmental stewardship. Through interacting with the various map layers, it may be possible to identify patterns and show potential for greenways, areas of environmental concern, as well as things to celebrate. The story map includes a summary of the environmental characteristics and the geographical area of the city meant to highlight the

areas where a higher concentration and quality of natural features exist.

All right. And to start off with our first uh feature uh it's going to be uh geological ones. And to start it's going to be soils. And Traverse City is home to a wide variety of soils. And these present both opportunities and challenges. The soils found in our region are largely sandy and well- drained and reformed and deposited by glacial outwash, a process in which various materials are deposited by large qu large quantities of water that flow from melting glaciers. The fine sediments deposited through this process are ideal for supporting our local forests and fruit orchards, but can also increase the potential for nutrient leeching and storm water infiltration issues, particularly in developed areas. And just some brief summaries of our city soils. There is lom which is a balanced soil consisting of equal parts sand, silt and clay. It's nutrientdense and ideal for agriculture and growing. There's lomi sand which is uh a lomy soil with significant higher concentr with a significantly higher concentration of sand. It's also good for agriculture, gardening and drainage. There's grally sandy lom which is a lomy soil with significant concentration of gravel, sand and clay. It still supports growing to due to the lomi quality uh yet it is less ideal than a balanced lom. Grally soils are soils that contain significant concentrations of gravel. They're good for drainage due to the large air pockets between particles, but it is not ideal for growing. Mucky soils are characterized by a high concentration of organic materials. It is high in nutrients but susceptible to nutrient imbalances which can lead to plant disease. Uh it is also uh renowned for having uh poor drainage and it is also prone to sliding. The mucky lomy sands uh which are a mixture of soil that consists of organic and mineral material. It is nutrient-dense and it too is prone to sliding. Pete uh is an important non-renewable surface soil consisting of partially decayed vegetation or organic

matter. It improves drainage and stores carbon dioxide but has low nutrient density. Sandy soils which the city is primarily composed of um are good for drainage and uh have poor nutrient density. Sandilom is a uh another lomy soil with a high concentration of sand. It is good for agriculture, gardening and drainage. And finally, silty clay loom is characterized by a high proportion of clay and silt particles. It's good for drainage but problematic for construction due to its tendency to expand. And moving on from soils, I'm going to be covering our city's steep slopes. Our steep slopes are found uh primarily in the edges of the city um namely in the city's uh base of Mission, Hilltop, Morgan Farms, and Slabtown neighborhoods as well as in the corridors adjacent to the Borman River and Kids Creek. These uh slopes pose significant constraints for development due to increased risk of erosion, instability, and storm water runoff. Vegetation plays a critical role in stabilizing these areas and removal or disturbance can lead to sedimentation in nearby waterways which in turn impacts water quality and aquatic habitats. Steep slopes require special consideration in planning to avoid environmental degradation and to protect scenic viewsheds. And preserving these features is essential for maintaining the city's natural character and ecological health.

I'm going to take you through some of the city's water and wetland features. Um, so the numerous bodies of water flowing through and adjacent to Traverse City shape our city's way of life. Um, our freshwater network supports fish and wildlife habitat, absorbs storm water, recharges groundwater, and offers scenic and recreational value for residents and visitors. Uh, protecting these aquatic systems is essential to maintaining water quality in Grand Travers Bay, especially as the city grows. So, the first one we're going to look at is Grand Travers Bay. At the downtown core of Traverse City lies at the head of the west arm of Grand Traverse Bay and the eastern neighborhoods of the city lie on the shore of the bay's east arm. The bay is a natural 32-m long harbor of Lake Michigan and it historically paved the way for early European settlement and later industrial and commercial development of Traverse City and our region. As a direct part of the Great Lakes system, it's imperative that planning for Traverse City's future ensures that the bay remains protected and min minimally impacted by human activity for the continued safety, benefit, and enjoyment of all residents. The Boardman or Ottawa River begins in the forested hills of Grand Travers and Kasca counties and winds its way through the city before emptying into Grand Travers Bay. The city has uh been the focus of a regionwide ecological restoration including the removal of three dams since 2012. Uh the culmination of this initiative is underway right now at the Union Street Dam where the Fish Pass project, a pioneering research and fish control initiative led by the Great Lakes Fisheries Commission, will finally restore the river to its natural flow and fish passage for the first time since 1850. Uh Borman Lake is a natural lake formed along the course of the Borman River situated just south of downtown Trevor City. The lake is divided between the city to the north, Garfield Township to the south. The lake supports a variety of fish and wildlife species and plays a key role in the city's wershed. Historically, industrial and nature. Recent investments such as the Bordon Lake Loop uh and improvements to whole park have enhanced recreational opportunities and access to the lake

while also promoting conservation. The lake acts as a settling basin for sediments and nutrients, making its protection critical to the health of the broader Grand Travis Bay ecosystem. Um, and that picture right there is a really great example of that industrial past uh of Borman Lake that's really changed quite a bit uh in the last hundred years. Um, Kids Creek is a tributary of the Borman or Ottawa River which flows through the city's west side including the Mudson Medical Center and Grand Travers Commons campuses. Like its parent river, Kids Creek and its tribut tributaries have been the target of ongoing restoration efforts, including daylighting the previously covered parts of the stream near Mson Medical Center in 2013 and riparian buffer restoration work near me um in the last couple years. These initiatives have been spearheaded by the wershed center and the Grand Travers Band of Ottawa Chipa Indians in partnership with local land owners and adjacent municipalities. and some of that construction work ongoing at Mson uh about a decade ago. Uh Mitchell Creek also runs through the city and it feeds into the east arm of Grand Traverse Bay which is the source of the city's drinking water. Um the stream and its numerous tributaries begin to the south of Traverse City and flow north through the city limits primarily through this portion of Cherry Capital Airport property. Um, in its lower reaches, the stream flows through a number of crit number of sensitive wetlands which serve a number of critical ecological functions before the stream enters the bay. And restoration and preservation work is ongoing here as well, thanks to the Grand Travers Regional Land Conservancy and its many partners. Uh, Trevor City's wetlands are quiet yet powerful ecosystems that play an important role in maintaining the city's environmental health. found along stream corridors, forested wetlands, and the shores of Grand Traverse Bay. Our wetlands act as natural filters by trapping sediment, absorbing excess nutrients, and improving water quality. Um, they can also help manage storm water runoff by soaking up rainfall, and absorbing fastoving currents, reducing the risk of flooding downstream and

developed areas. Wetlands support an incredible diversity of plant and animal life, including amphibians, migratory birds, uh, rare native and rare native species. As climate change and development pressures intensify, uh protecting and restoring these sensitive areas is more important than ever to make sure that Travis City remains resilient and ecologically balanced. Um and then flood planes um downstream of what we're talking about with the the wetlands there. Uh preserving and protecting flood planes is of vital importance, especially in developed areas. Undisturbed flood planes serve as natural sponges, absorbing excess water and slowing down its flow while also providing habitat for wildlife. Uh when development occurs in or around flood planes, it can increase flood risk, disrupt natural water flow, degrade habitat, lead to costly property damage, and cause potential long-term environmental impacts. Managing and preserving flood planes is crucial for future developments. And knowing where these flood planes are is important for all residents. And then uh a riparian buffer is a vegetated area on the banks of a stream, river, or lake that separates the waterway from human development and potentially harmful runoff. like flood planes, riparian buffers are important areas to protect. They provide green space for recreation, offer habitat for wildlife, and enhance the natural character of our waterways. Disturbances in these areas may again contribute to habitat loss, environmental degradation, and erosion. Healthy riparian buffers make our city more resilient in the face of climate change and extreme weather events. And as you may know, the riparian buffer subcommittee and city staff are currently working to update Trevor City's ordinances to reflect the value of these zones, placing increased protections around the bodies of water that are central to our region's identity.

Thank you, Ted. I'm going to talk a little bit about trees now. Um, Traverse City is fortunate to have a substantial amount of tree coverage, something that is relatively rare for a city. And if you look around, there is no question that the region used to be a hot spot for logging and that the city's beginnings were a result of the logging industry. Traverse City has been recognized as a Tree City USA for 36 years and takes great pride in taking care of its tree canopy. The map to the right displays a regularly updated map of all city-owned trees, a resource that helps the parks and recreation department keep track of all the trees that are owned and maintained by the city. Each fall and spring, uh, the Triber city parks and recck department completes a tree planting project that is meant to supplement the trees that removed in the previous year of development. An urban tree canopy or urban forest refers to the amount of tree coverage found within a city's limits. Trees provide a wide range of benefits to the urban environment, including reduced urban heat, reduced urban heat energy usage, cleaner air, improved air quality, improved wildlife habitat, and a greater aesthetic appeal. According to iTree, which is a USDA forest service that provides urban and rural rural forest analysis, the Traverse City Tree Canopy is providing nearly $670,000 worth of benefits in term of terms of carbon dioxide uptake, storm water mitigation, and other air quality improvements, which is amazing.

Thank you, Liv. I'm going to talk about some of our city's urban features. So, first and foremost, our parks and trails. Parks are an essential part of the urban environment. They provide a reprieve from the continuous urban landscape. Um un uninterrupted development can lead to a number of issues like high urban heat, storm drainage issues, and generally make for a bland and unappealing landscape. Within the city limits, we have more than 30 parks and recreation areas ranging from golden sand beaches to urban neighborhoods to quiet wooded natural areas. Uh parks enhance the community by promoting health and well-being and by protecting natural features. Um the city maintains a directory where you can explore the city's parks and learn more about recreation opportunities. Um and we also we also have a wealth of non-motorized and grade separated trails connecting our many neighborhoods, parks, and natural areas. These biking and walking trails make the city more accessible to people of all ages and connect Travis City to the greater region through the tart network. And then I'm going to go a little more in depth on the urban heat uh that you've heard us talking about here. So the urban heat island effect is a phenomenon where cities and urbanized areas experience higher temperatures than rural undeveloped areas. Um this effect is a direct result of all these man-made structures that we have around us like the darker colored surfaces of our roads and our roofs that absorb more heat during the day. Um these high temperatures can pose a risk to human health especially on days where it gets extremely hot like we've had recently. um and also put a higher strain on our electricity grid as we use more energy to power our air conditioners. Um while a higher heat index is impossible to avoid in developed areas when you compare it to an undeveloped area, we can decrease the severity of our urban heat island effect by increasing our tree and vegetation coverage, adding parks in between uh to sort of break up continuous uh urban areas. Um, and as

the effects of climate change intensify, it's imperative that mitigating the urban heat island effect becomes more of a priority. And you can really see this really strongly in this map, um, which is based on data from the master plan. You see that the Cherry Capital Airport property where the runways are is astronomically hotter than the lake or the wetlands um, around Kids Creek and even compared to downtown.

All right. So what did we find in all this? So in the end we created a index map that is meant to highlight the areas of the city that are the most diverse in regard in regards to natural features. And our index was calculated by determining the presence of certain natural features including wetlands, flood planes, tree canopy and uh tree canopy and city owned trees, steep slopes between 15 and 25% and steep slopes above 25%. And in doing so, uh, areas with a higher number of natural features are ranked as having a high significance and are pictured in red, while areas with the lowest diversity of features are denoted low significance and are pictured in green. Recognizing uh where higher congregations of natural features already exist can help us better plan for a more sustainable future. While a large portion of the city falls within the low significance category, it is important to remember that protection and promotion of existing natural features anywhere is important regardless of concentration. especially in the face of a changing climate. And I would to highlight some of the areas uh that lit up the city's west side uh came up as very important. Uh it contains the highest concentration of environmentally significant areas uh within the city limits. And this is primarily due to its position at the foot of rolling ridges and hills which feed wetlands and streams that connect to Kids Creek in the lowerlying areas. And while many of these environmental zones, including the Grand Traverse Commons and Silverbrook Acres, uh are already protected, uh there are others, including certain wetlands on the on the far west side, uh that are located within residential or commercial developments like the Mson Medical Center campus. And protecting and restoring these areas is crucial to preserve the ecological health of the city and region, and to provide valuable resources for both residents and wildlife. Another area that lit up was the uh where Mitchell Creek flows through the Cherry Capitol Airport property uh east of Three-Mile Road. It is uh it's it serves as an important wildlife corridor

connecting East Grand Travers Bay to the forest and uplands of uh the adjacent East Bay Township. And as Traverse City continues to develop to the southeast and Cherry Capitol airport continues to see higher air traffic air traffic uh and expand accordingly, it's uh protecting this section of Creek. It rem should continue to be a priority. Next, the Driversfield Enterp Enterprise Place uh the industrial exclave within Garfield Township is also an area of high ecological significance. Uh and due to its current, uh and historical industrial character, there may already be significant environmental degradation, particularly in the sensitive watersheds which are themselves are part of the Mitchell Creek wershed. Um despite whatever damages have been done, it is never too late to rehabilitate our waterways and wersheds. as with the kids creek restoration project which will have favorable effects on the quality of our ecosystem. And finally, um the base of the Old Mission Peninsula also lit up and although it is largely uh although it is largely built out, it too is host to a number of significant environmental features. Many of these exist on private property and rely on the care and consideration of those who already live on the land. And as mentioned earlier in the presentation, features such as tree canopy and vegetation play an important role in protecting public health and go beyond the parcel they are located on. And we linked to the city's uh sustainability page uh for those who have questions regarding how to better care for and understand the natural features on your parcel. And to bring it all back together, we created an interactive web map. if it loads.

Here we go. So, we created this interactive web map that features uh not just the interactive uh index map that we created, but it also you're able to toggle on and off features such as parks, trails, water bodies, you know, wetlands. And you can play around, see how these play together and figure out what corridors may be of future importance. And we figured that'd be a valuable resource. Thank you. Yes. Amazing job.

Well, thank you guys. I just want to real quick thank on that. I I forgot to say at the beginning that they had wanted me to to say you could ask questions at any point. So, we can take those questions now, but I just want to commend the three of you for your ability to just jump into this project without intimidation, your technical prowess that you displayed with your understanding of GIS in such a quick time as well as the intersection between urban environmental characteristics of our community. Um Ted and Olivia will be leaving us on Friday and Cole will be leaving us next week on Friday. So, it's been a real pleasure to have you this summer in our department. You've brought a lot of energy and attitude, positive attitude that we've enjoyed. And even our most routine staff member has loved having you guys outside his door and is going to miss you guys. So, um again, thank you for the time and your service to our city. Um again, Cole will be here one more week and when I've asked about their uh career aspirations, Cole has made it very clear that he wants Dave's job and my job. So, we might see Cole around for a little more in the future. So again, thank you to the three of you and I'll hand it back to the chair.

Does anybody have any questions? Yes.

Well, so I was just going to commend you all. This is amazing. And I also have a draft going to the riparian buffer committee. Can I hit send, Leslie? I was just waiting. I think this is something they're really going to love. They're Yeah, most of them are technically able to like I I'm going to move past what I just said, but I think they'll really like the interactive parts. Um, and I think going into the conversation we're going to have this week, uh, would be really something good for them to spend a couple minutes just playing around with. Um, it'll be really helpful when we're trying to envision those things and those spaces in our head. Um, but can't

we forgot about a tributary on this side of town or we forgot about the stretch of I'm Mitch would never forget about a part of Kids Creek, but just saying it comes. it will be really helpful for me. So, I'm going to hit send on my email. I think that's great. Anybody else? What's the most interesting thing you guys learned doing this process? Technically, naturally, we learned a lot about soils that we overtook soil science. My my two semesters of college geology did not prepare me for the intricacies of northern Michigan soil data.

Yeah. If you guys have any questions about soils, we might be city's experts from week now on

I've got a lot of detailed questions, but my biggest question now that we're at the end and I didn't ask a dozen questions constantly through out is this is a great resource um but and I appreciate that a lot of the data layers go beyond the city limits. However, our jurisdiction is just within the city limits on the west side, which you did highlight has the highest concentration of sensitive habitats. Uh the watershed center does have a unified uh plan for the kids creek wersheds. So they are able to coordinate things that are happening in the city, things that are happening in Garfield Township, things that are happening with private partners like uh Mson or uh Meyer, but I would like this to be shared um and have productive discussions with the adjacent townships because you did highlight, for example, um sensitive steep slope and wetland areas in the border with Elwood Township and um in the Mitchell Creek watershed uh there are areas of red and yellow that go right up to the city's limits and I don't see a future plan for currently for development of those in East Bay Township, but they are out of our zoning map. So I think um East Bay Township would find it very you useful and it could be part of regional planning. Yeah, something that we really ran into with this project is that, you know, the city is at the bottom of of all of the the the, you know, water bodies that start um outside the city. And so we ultimately, you know, without that regional coordination, we don't get to control our own destiny as much as we would maybe like, especially when it comes to um in particular things like flooding. you know, the bulk of if a

flood were to happen in the city, it would start outside of the city and would come into the city. Um, and so it's a question of what can we do to make ourselves resilient? How can we internally look internally and address our um natural features, which was really the focus of this report. But it's very important, as you say, to remember that, you know, all of these features continue outside the the city's borders. They don't just, you know, cut off right at the city limit line. They continue out in all directions. Is there any public comment on the National Futures Inventory?

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see your hand. Thank you. Um I I'm curious. You've created this wonderful trove of data for us to use. Um, you're probably the three people who understand it most deeply at this point. Um, if there were one policy priority that you would suggest that city leadership should be um, exploring immediately based on the data that you've created, what would it be, Olivia?

Yeah, sure. I know we have the riparian buffer conversation coming up. So, I would definitely say that's one of the most important things that we could focus on and that this kind of project kind of lends itself to. Um, while we were discussing our findings, we were kind of thinking of things like um zoning overlay maps that could be used to protect our natural features. Now, is there any public comment on the National Features Inventory? Okay. Thank you all very much for your hard work. It's just amazing. Ted, I cannot believe you're graduating. That just Thank you. They grew up so fast.

I can't either. Yes, you went off to college. Geez. Okay, let's move on to um new business 7B. Consideration of site plan review application 25 SP1 submitted by Great Lakes Capital to construct a 137 room hotel with 67 underground parking spaces and customary access accessory uses to be located at 124 West Front Street. Mr. Winter.

Yes, thank you. Bear with me one second as I read it here. All right. So, yes, as the agenda item indicates, this is a proposed hotel, approximately 137 rooms with I know it says 67. I was noted today, right before the meeting, it's actually 68 underground parking spaces located obviously below grade. Um, this will be located at 124 West Front Street. Some of you who were around maybe five years ago may recall that this received a site plan approval previously in conjunction with 309 West Front. were the same developer. They're both to be residential. Um 309 Westfront got built. Um variety of reasons the residential component at 124 Westfront did not get built and they have since decided to pursue a hotel at that site. Um even before that uh I was talking to Commissioner McGillary recently on the fact that I think this is the fourth proposal now. uh three of which have been previously approved for the infamous pit that we have on the west end. So I think there is at least on the staff side some enthusiasm that some traction is occurring on this property.

So um the building has a very tall first floor. You may notice approximately 24 feet. Part of that is um at one point the west side the building can't deliver levers over the ground there and there is some light and power equipment that they have permission to do that to but they had to have a certain level of height clearance so they could get a truck in there and possible train to ever pick that equipment up. So that is why you see that uh one of the reasons why it has such a a high height there. Um the slope of the lot uh drops away from Front Street. So the back side of the building, the parking that is underground would be visible. So there will be cutouts in there in case the river ever floods. It's very similar to the design that they did at 309 Westfront because again, same developer and it uh is a similar flood plane situation there, but that is permissible in that location. Um the parking underground will be valet parking, so the customers will not be navigating that. uh they will pull into the drop off location which is pretty customary for hotels where they'll be outside the rightaway to unload and then attend an attendant will take their vehicle to uh parking location. So it does mention that there are some accessory uses that you'll customarily find within a hotel. Uh it will have a restaurant, a bar, a cafe, and I believe um you would call conference center or conference amenities within it. There will also be outdoor seating as you notice on the renderings in the site plan. Um, and I think that basically sums it up. There were some conditions that you will see in the recommended um motion at the end and these are ones that came out of our multiple meetings that we had with the design team. So, we had all the staff uh design departments involved in this. So, I'll just kind of go over them now in case there's any questions. Um, and then I'll hand it over to the applicant who has the plans up to kind of talk through

them and answer questions as well. So, uh, as customary with street or projects located within the DDA, uh, we typically have them coordinate with the DDA on the streetscaping. Um, this will include, uh, the location of street trees, the snow melt system, first floor location of a biking mobility hub as discussed by the applicant. um they will work with the parking services director to reinstall any parking related infrastructure that needs to be removed along that section of the street for the construction period and the replacement of that will be borne by the developer. Same thing with Trevor City Light and Power as it relates to any street light poles. This is a very very constrained site for construction as we discussed in our design team meetings. There is no alley. You can't access the property from the rear side. Um, and there's private property on the west and then a a public walkway, I'm sorry, east and public walkway on the west. Um, as staff will have to be coordinating the rightaway permits because I I'm sure most of you aware there's another construction project going on on the other side of the street right now at the corner of Front and Pine. So, we have to maintain access through that corridor as much as possible. Um the next condition is that the applicant will continue to work with engineering utilities and light and power on all the necessary utility extensions. Um again projects have been approved here. Um I do understand uh talking to engineering that the ground is quite contaminated at this site. This mentions it in the staff report. You can even see it on the site plan. There's a whole series of monitoring wells along the waterfront. So ground storm infiltration can't occur at this site. That threatens the aquafer and it would potentially push that pollution not just into the groundwater but then seep out into the river and out into the lake. So storm water will go through a aqua swirl system that was installed by the city in

that location as a district storm water re catchment area because it's so contaminated the city knew that it wouldn't be able to be developed without piping the storm water through that system. And so therefore, they put a treatment device on there to address some of that. The next and so speaking of that, that all the storm water um ordinances are met, the three parcels will be combined as one, that the fire prevention ordinance uh and the international fire code will be met. Um where the driveway access West Front Street equipment pavement markings will need to be installed as approved by the city engineer to inform the driver and warn pedestrians when a motor vehicle is about to cross the sidewalk. The city will require confirmation from Eagle that the proposed encroachments in the flood plane will not increase flood levels within the community during the occurrence of a flood-based discharge. The primary entrance along West Front Street shall be set back a minimum of 4 feet from the property line. A third pedestrian entrance shall be added to the south elevation along West Front and all deliveries between 8 am and 8:00 PM um will be prohibited from occurring within the rightway. So they would have to pull it into the building if it's during that time. And this is just um noticing that there is no alley to do deliveries and we can't be obstructing the rightway in this location. Uh so those are the conditions of uh recommended by staff that were generated through the collaborative review process. The staff report that you have in there does highlight as we try to do consistently all the standards um for site plan review. We have the applicant submit their responses to all those standards. They've been incorporated and then staff was able to provide um staff specific responses as well. Uh sitting with the attorney, we looked at the standards and determined which staff review forms needed to be distributed to which departments. So those based on the standards were department of municipal utilities, light and power and the fire department. All three of which have

submitted their documents enclosed in your packet and have um supported this project at this point. So with that, I will hand it over to Dusty Christensen, who is here from Mansfield Land use. Did I say that right? And he will be presenting uh the plans for you and answering any questions you have.

Good evening. Um, as Sean mentioned, my name is Dusty Christensen. I'm with Mansfield Land Use Consultants. Um, we've done the site planning and civil engineering for the application and the the proposed project that you have in front of you tonight. Um, I'm here tonight on behalf of Great Lakes Capital, who is the property owner and developer. Um, Sean also mentioned they had the uh previous project that was approved by the planning commission in 2020. um and uh have kind of circled back uh a number of times actually in in an effort to make something happen on this site and have decided that um a hotel is the direction that they'd like to proceed. I'm trying to remember how to go into full screen mode on my PDF.

Try control

L. Okay, thank you. That's better. Um I am going to kind of cherrypick some drawing sheets out of both the site plan set and the architectural set. Um obviously you've all had those in your packet and had a chance to review them. Um I'll try to hit the the high points um on the proposed development and then I' I'd rather talk with you than at you. So, um, we'll get into any questions that you might have, but, um, I can't recall if Sean mentioned it during his intro. Um, this project is a use by Wright in the C4B district. Um, proposed hotel with accessory uses. We do have 137 guest rooms, a restaurant, a cafe, uh a relatively small conference area, and then a a a bar, um which is on the fourth floor, uh one of the guest room floors of the hotel. Um the site itself is shown here on this plan. Obviously, it's it's bound by Front Street on the south side, uh the pedestrian way to the crossing over the river on the west side, the Record Eagle building on the east, um and then the river on the north itself. Um I'm going to skip forward to this is it. So, this is our our street level site plan. Um and on the south or east corner of the building, you'll notice the the drop off um and valet area for the hotel um that was mentioned in the introduction as well as the ramp that leads down to the basement parking deck level. Um this is something that actually took up a large portion of our our time and and brain power during the

design process because the the folks that do the hotel consultant and hotel management really need a place for folks to be able to park their car, get the bags out, get themselves oriented and get themselves into the hotel to check in. And obviously, we can't do that in the street right away. U you know, the parking spaces are metered and frequently full. We can't do that in the roadway itself. And so we went through a number of iterations on how to accomplish this onsite. Um, and ultimately decided to do that within the footprint of the building. Um, there's a one-way drive lane with the I don't know if Oh, good. My cursor shows up with the entry here off Front Street that loops through the building and then vehicles can either continue down the ramp to the parking level or back out onto Front Street. Um we have three or four loading spaces um shown uh three actually I believe with the with the valet being the other the drop off space being the other um and then basically a oneway one lane uh lane through that drop off area into the building. The reason that we had the entry drive central to the building and the exit to the east is that when the when the vehicles go down uh with the val valet folks, if we had the circulation in the opposite direction, the valet vehicles would have to exit onto Front Street and then go around the entire block to get down the ramp. Um the remainder of the facade along Front Street is essentially the hotel lobby uh which opens up into the restaurant and bar further into the building and then a cafe space on the west side of the building uh that is essentially a coffee shop and and bakery um that serves not just the guests of the hotel but uh the

surrounding community, folks who are on Front Street, the neighborhood etc. And then that can levered portion of the building uh over the top of the TC light and power equipment uh is on the very west side. It serves to provide some additional seating space for the cafe. Um but again, we have essentially 24 feet of clearance above that so that light and power can get a truck and equipment up there to service their lines um in a vault that has some other equipment in it. Um before we move on to Oh yeah. soon. Um, the valet drive down in is that two lanes?

Yes. So, there's a one lane down, one lane back up. And that I think that's better illustrated on this next plan here. You can see our little circulation areas. Oh, great.

Um, but yes, it is uh is two lane, one down and one up. Um, and while we're on the topic of the vehicular circulation, I'll note that we're proposing uh at the recommendation of of staff during our our meetings with them um some bumpouts where we're actually bumping out the curb line um toward into the street. Uh we're going to maintain the the full width of the existing bike lane, but we do lose some on on street parking. Um, and the purpose for that is to give ourselves, I'm going to jump back one sheet here, some little landing areas, um, in front of our drive penetrations into the building. So, most critically, when a vehicle is exiting the ramp or the valet lane, they can get the nose of that car through the facade of the building and have some visibility. Um, we have planting areas on either side and then we push the actual sidewalk surface away from the building so that we're slowing cars down, giving them a chance to creep out and see pedestrians before they have to make a decision to turn out onto the street. Um, and we've done that at both um, drive points, drive access points off of Front Street.

You have enough space right now uh, to preserve the bike lane, but it does look a little pinched. Uh, would this design uh be kept the same uh if at the conclusion of the two-way State Street uh project uh there is the removal of the essentially closed off area across Front Street immediately to the west

I think so um you know the the circulation within the building would probably remain the same. It makes the most sense to have a dedicated entry point where folks are entering the drive, seeing where they need to be, getting into one of those loading spaces, doing what they need to do, and then having their their car valet parked for them. Um, I don't Are you specifically referring to the bumpouts themselves or the or just the circulation? Just circulation in general. Yeah, I think the circulation pattern would remain the same. And I I think the bumpouts are beneficial regardless of of traffic direction on Front Street.

And I'll add one thing. You mentioned the the pinch bike lane. Um that did come up in design team and they committed to maintaining the width of the bike lane as existing when they construct question. Sure. Um so I'm wondering about deliveries and understand you're saying deliveries between 8 in the morning and 8 at night must be inside that area. So, can you tell me, can a beer truck actually make that turn? Can delivery I mean, we're not talking about FedEx vehicles. We're talking about, you know, trucks.

Yeah. Linens, uh, all these guys. Can they actually make Has anybody looked to see whether or not they can actually make the turn to get in there?

Well, the answer to that is no. So, big trucks will not be entering either of the driveways um onto the site. So any delivery that requires a large semi or say trash pickup, something like that, is going to occur in the street during those off hours. Um, similar to way that the way that trash collection works at other places in the city where there are roller dumpsters that are internal to the site. You know, the folks from the the waste hauling company show up very early in the morning. The dumpsters are rolled out, put into the truck, and then rolled back. Um, it's a management issue and all deliveries are going to have to take place. Um, I think in Sean's condition, uh, we know between the hours of 8 a.m. and 8, excuse me, 8:00 p.m. and 8 a.m. is when those would take place out in the street. Um, based on our discussions with the management team, it sounds like they're going to be planning to have most of their deliveries happen prior to 6:00 a.m.

Great. Do we have other locations in the city where this this type of restriction also exists?

No. Uh as far as the drop off time and stuff. No. And this was a recommendation from the parking services director. We have areas where the same problem exists and that's where the recommendation came in. So this is mostly on the other end towards east front. So think about the state theater. um we don't have any alley access on that block on the north side. Um those buildings are already there and operating. So we don't it's hard to find that solution now. So this is our time to condition that approval on it. Um and we're just trying to avoid some of the situations that we have occurring on the other end where the delivery truck drivers are there at 11:00 a.m. and they have no choice but to shut down the lane to take their deliveries out because there is no loading zone or unloading zone. So that is why this was recommended. Um especially considering that, you know, as you get just to the west of that valet drive, it chokes down to one lane because of the bump out. So if you have a a delivery vehicle, then you've blocked up front street imposed traffic. So that's why that condition was put on there. And again, those are up to you guys. You know, it's the motion that you guys make. If you don't think that is a legitimate condition, you can remove it.

No, I'm just wondering how it's going to be enforced. I mean, I, you know, there's even when there's alleys, you've got delivery trucks blocking lanes down front street all the time. You know, rugs, linens, UPS, FedEx. Yeah. You know, they do it all the time. They don't use alleys. They just stop in the street, clock traffic. Yeah. And so, typically obstructing a travel lane is enforced by the police department. So, that would probably be something that needs to be put on uh Officer Culver's radar. He's the the downtown beat police officer. Keep an eye on that. And he's we've reached out with him before and he's talked with delivery companies that have been problematic.

But putting this as a condition of the development um at least clarifies that issue whereas we have found um from the other businesses that they need to operate uh deliveries during that area not because of any legal requirement but just for practical concerns.

Yeah. Uh, and by making it a condition of approval, um, if they do it, not only is it a violation of the motor vehicle code, but now it's a violation of the zoning ordinance because it's not consistent with the site plan approval, and then we can send our code enforcement officer out there and deal with it. So, it gives us a little extra re, you know, enforcement opportunities. If I looked at this plan and that site and thought there was another viable option, I would say no, we're not. This is unacceptable. um you know and I understand that but I look at your um need ramp and you only have one deep area to do it

and it's pretty much it's not going to go anywhere else. So yeah,

you know, at least it addresses the car issue. you know, it's certainly a a management issue, if not headache, um for the folks that are going to be operating this this facility, and they're well aware of it. Um and and you know, frankly, my impression of the handling of deliveries, and I I think where their determination to have those happen really early morning comes from the the fact that there isn't a whole lot of room even internal to the building. So once the whatever is being delivered gets out of the truck, there's not a great way to get it where it needs to go within the building without having it be in the way or in front of a lot of guests. And that is

going through the front door. Exactly. You know, or near enough to it, right? And I I don't know much about managing hotels, but I understand that you don't want them to see the trash or the deliveries when they're staying there. So, I think there's a I think there's a a recognition that, you know, keeping deliveries to the off hours and and during those quiet times uh on the street at least um is preferable. Um are there any other questions or should I should I keep moving? Yes.

Um I'm interested. I believe right now along that stretch of of West Front, there are nine parallel parking spots and a fairly wellused sidewalk and a bus stop right up at the the stop sign at uh Front and Pine. And I just wondered which of those how many how many parking spots will be lost? Will the width of the sidewalk be maintained? And is there impact on the bus stop? Uh the bus stop I am not 100% on. I believe it's remaining. Um the we lose five parallel parking spaces on Front Street. So nine currently exist across the front of the property. We have four on the plans. Um primarily due to the driveways and the bumpouts. um if the bumpouts themselves probably lost a couple of extra parking spaces, but for safety purposes um in our discussions with staff, we felt those were needed. Um and the sidewalk width is going to remain at 8 feet. It's just going to be bumped out along that bumpout. Um so unfortunately, we lost lost a few parking spaces, but are trying to maintain everything else as best we can. And the plan for parking below the building, uh, will there be any self park? It's all valet parking.

Nope, it's all valet. Um, and it's it's a private parking lot, um, dedicated to the guests staying at the hotel. And I think the thought is every car is going to get parked by somebody who knows their way in and out of that garage really well. Um, and the plan for overflow parking, the discrepancy between the the number of rooms. That's a good question. And so the the discussion that's been held and with the owner and the the folks that are going to be managing the facility have talked about acquiring spaces within city decks or city lots as as overflow. Um for instance, Oldtown parking and so it would be, you know, somebody would be running basically. There'd be a

like they do in in hotels in bigger cities where they don't have on-site parking. Yeah. um you know they have valet in a in an adjacent deck or a nearby deck and somebody gets a workout running to get cars. Um but that that's the plan right now. Last last question about parking um snow season

and snow removal um impact of of snow plowing and accessibility to plows and so forth. So the one of the reasons that we we bumped our originally the bumpouts were were pushed out so that the face of the curb was the edge of the bike lane. Um and after discussing that with staff, we've pushed those bumpouts back towards the building a little bit so that the front of the gutter pan is on the bike lane and so that plowable asphalt surface doesn't have any potential obstructions with curbing or anything like that. Um, we're also going to modify the radi that are shown on the on the plan to better accommodate the city's vehicles that they use for for clearing out parking spaces and alleys. Um, and then you the city crews always do a great job of getting the wind rows and the um piles of snow out of the way once they create them. Sidewalks are going to be heated. Um, and then obviously we'll have uh that the paved surfaces within the building. So the valet drop off and the ramp are covered. So really the only snow that we'll end up with in those places will be coming off of vehicles as they enter and exit. Take care of that with shovels and some trench trains.

I would say in the downtown environment, we don't actually plow the streets like we do in the neighborhoods. They wait till night and they bring in equipment and push it all to the center. So to Dusty's point, it doesn't we're not running plows down it like we would typical streets and stuff. Um, did has anyone ever stayed I know because the Michigan planning conference is there, but the Amway Grand Plaza Hotel. So, this design is a lot like that as far as you pull in for the drop off, then you leave. And I've stayed there a lot and I give the tenant my car and I don't see it again. Like they take it to some undisclosed location and it always comes back fine, but I just have to put the trust in them. And I think in talking with the management team, that's kind of again their I guess I want to reiterate that that's the story they've told us as well.

Yeah, that's a that's a great comparison. the Amway uh the way that the Amway's drop off and valet system uh is set up underneath on the street level underneath a portion of the building is is very comparable to what we're doing here. Um I have the the elevations from the architectural plan pulled up. Um these again are in your packets and I I have some enlarged versions on the next couple of slides that I can show you. But um generally speaking, the building itself, the long dimension of the building runs along Front Street. Um the elevation that you're seeing on the very bottom of the of the screen here is the Front Street elevation of the building. Um you'll see that little cutout that we discussed over the top of TC Light and Powers equipment there. So the guest rooms on the the upper floors actually hang over that. And then that'll have some seating for the cafe and it doesn't show up very well here isn't accur accurately represented, but there will be a ramp um that provides access from street level up to that paved surface for TCLP to get a get a truck up there. Uh the reason for that is that we've got about two feet of grade change from the east side of the building to the west. So, our finished floor elevation, while it matches up really well on this uh east side, on the west side, it's about two feet higher than than street level. Uh making that little ramp cut necessary. Um this elev elevation in the center is the north elevation. So, the river side of the building. Um again, street level is up here. the site drops down to a level closer to that of the river. Um the parking level is all down here and then those cutouts for flood control are on primarily the the west side of

the building. Um this is the east elevation. This little white void you see here is actually the the record eagle building. Um that kind of shows how this the record eagle building will butt up against the the east side of this building. Um, and then this is the the west elevation again with the the seating area here and then pedestrian connection through the west side out to the terrace on the back side of the building. Um, these enlargements just give a little bit more detail as to what the building will look like. And again, I'll I'll note that you're you're likely familiar with the uh list of special requirements for buildings and the and the C4 districts. Um the architects for the project, uh Studiom went to a lot of great depth to make sure that all of those standards were complied with. Um and according to what we've submitted and and what staff reviewed, we we comply with all the standards in the ordinance, not just for those special building requirements, but but across the board. Um with that, I I I'd answer any questions that you have further. Yes, I see one right there. Sorry.

Um, no problem. No problem. Um, specifically about the the east and west um elevations. There are significant portions that are blank. Um, and I wondered if you could tell us about the reasoning for that. I noticed they are actually the the street side uh the front street side of the building seems to be the the blank area and um so it will be very very obvious to people traveling westbound on that oneway stretch of Front Street that there's a big old blank wall right there

hovering over the the one-story Record Eagle building. Can you tell us the rationale for that? I would have to verify with the architects, but my guess is that it is related to the internal workings of the hotel rooms on those portions of the building. So again, this is a this is the second floor plan. Um the third and fourth floor plans are very similar. Down here across the bottom of the screen again is the the front street side of the building. And on that west and east side, we have guest rooms which have their windows I I guess on the short side of the room. And then there's furniture and televisions and things like you would find on the long sides of a hotel room when you stay there that prevent the inclusion of windows on on those sides of the rooms. On the east side, there are also some back of house um storage, uh janitorial, etc. that that typically don't have windows. Um so that's the that's the rationale.

There's another element at play in that from the construction code and fire code and that if your building goes up to the side property lines, you can't have windows. So those are the the two portions you see um without the windows are all the way to the property line. the part with the windows on the east and west elevation is pulled in. And that's because um if another building got built next to it, you don't want fire to jump via window from one to the other. So in order to have windows there, they would have had to pull both of those walls back I think five or 10 feet, which is why in our ordinance, we only require the window glazing on the front street side, the the front facade. And I can understand that for the the east elevation. um the west elevation abuts the pedestrian walkway as I understand

but that's still a parcel and not a rightaway. So by by the construction code you know it's it's a property uh rather than rightaway. So it applies to there as well. Um I will say it if it was to be built today you would see that um that may be masked soon. We have a meeting tomorrow with someone interested in developing the JNS property. So that might actually create a visual barrier to even seeing that from Front Street. So because that JNS property goes right up to that. Well, there's a parcel between public rightway for the bridge.

It's but it's not a rightaway. It's parcel that people walk on. So that's a distinguishing factor as far as the construction code is if you're up against a rightway or if you're up against a property line because the city could sell that property. someone could develop it and so they have to make sure the city could sell the air rights to that property. They could do that too. Yep. Okay. So the code tries to think about what could happen in the future and even in the short term uh the art commission is gearing up for a mural festival. Uh this would be a wonderful blank canvas if uh the hotel developer um saw a particular mural artist that they felt u matched their vision for the property and wanted to put some decoration.

I also thought that immediately I we strongly recommend public art. I'll pass that on. Okay. Yeah. Seeing seeing the uh relationship of the building to the sloping land, uh this is probably the right time to ask about building height. Um the the figures I saw on the on the uh packet were 58t 2 in from uh roof to land. And I wondered at what point is that measured? You said there's about a twoft slope involved. Um,

yeah. So, it's so that is measured from the mean height at street level or mean grade at street level. Um, and Sean, correct me if I'm wrong because I'm going to start talking about what the ordinance says and I might I might might not be able to remember it exactly, but um it's essentially you take average grade at street level to the height of a the roof deck for a flat roof building. And that's where that 58t 2 in comes from. Um uh in order to be sure and and maybe that's even at the at the east corner. I guess I'd have to to measure it, but it's 582. Yeah. So Dusty's correct. When we have a building with sloping grade, we'll take the east corner at the street and the west corner elevation. Take that average and that's the baseline and we measure from that average to the the top point. If it's a corner lot, then we take the three corners along the street, such as the hand on the building

and and that aligns with the outcome of the Anovo Yep. situation. Yep. Yep. Because that's the Anovo situation was questioning what is the top of the building, right? Less about the the starting point of where you measure from. Um and so yeah, so that is measured to the top of whatever you could stand on on the roof. So whether so not just steel deck but um insulation membrane papers anything above. So that's all counted in the building height and the height of the parapit it is just under three feet um 2 feet 10 in I believe

and I have questions about the building exterior cladding. Is this a time for that? I can try to answer them as best I can. I'm more on the zoning and site planning side than the architecture side, but Okay. Well, I can take a stab.

Thank you. Um, I noticed that in uh I think it was condition eight in our in our packet calls for predominant building materials of traditional brick and stone. and that um obviously the renderings um reflect the use of a synthetic stucco and um with I believe brick along the riverfacing lower level of the building. So I guess that would be the north side of the parking level. Um why why are we not requiring brick and stone here?

Can you explain? I'm trying to follow what spot again. Uh well, in uh in your write up condition, page of Yeah, page six of 11. Oh, I'm No, I'm sorry. Um page nine.

Page nine. Thank you, Mitch. Um calls for predominant building materials of traditional brick and stone. And I know we've been quite diligent in previous new construction like the CVS pharmacy just down the street that um I'm sure that brick and stone aren't part of their typical uh building construction and and yet they accommodated our our requirements in that in that area. And I wondered if that was a possibility to have I this this would be the only synthetic stucco clad building on Front Street. Correct. Um I I don't know if that is correct. I know down the building that used to have across from the the Hardy parking deck has Stucco on the front facade of it. the one just west of morsels. Um I believe on the upper floors.

I think it's important to distinguish also between the synthetic stucco and real stucco. I mean, as I finish, as I understand it, the synthetic stucco has a distinctive plastic feel and and you know, when you tap it, it sounds hollow as opposed to cement stucco, which is a much more solid material and um doesn't have those characteristics. So, I'm I'm confused about why why we're proposing a building of this significance with that particular cladding material.

Well, according to the the standards and the zoning ordinance, I mean, that is something that you guys can discuss. It says new buildings and additions of existing buildings, including parking structures, shall be constructed of durable materials utilizing the predominant building materials of traditional brick and stone or constructed of materials of comparable aesthetic value. So that's a judgment call that the planning commission can make. If they feel that it's not comparable, then that's something that needs to be identified.

Go ahead. If this commission had at any time enforced that in my time going back 20 years on any other building, I would say let's do it. But we haven't. I mean, look at the building across the street or across the river. You know, it's synthetic sighting. It's supposed to be in a warehouse district and it looks like a cottage or whatever they call that style. Um, it's I mean I don't think of a I don't see us using a ton of people using a ton of brick and stone. Some people do on some of the buildings. Um, and there's a question you have a legitimate question about, you know, is this enough? But I I don't think the question of I'm not going to tell someone to put cement stucco on their building instead of synthetic stuckco. We talk about all sorts of things for projects. Um and every time we have these requirements and these standards, it raises the cost of projects. So if you want to use cement stucco, most likely you're going to raise it's going to uh it's going to cost more to apply because it's heavier. it's going to cost I don't know if the product itself might be cheaper. Um but you know and then what I see in cement stucco is how well does it wear for it tends to chip. Um but you know that's a again it's a subjective judgment call but I think it's going to be hard to fix that or address that. Um, I'm not sure where is the brick

on the river side. It's on the river side in the parking level on the central column above the entrance.

And if I may clarify, I'm not proposing traditional stucco. I frankly don't think that traditional stucco relates to the vernacular or traditional exterior materials in this community. And I am uh sensitive to the fact that neither does synthetic stucco. You know, again, I just um I've gone down this road before and I voted against projects because I did not feel they were anywhere in this uh in the you know, and I have to agree, there's not much stone on this. Um uh the building across the street is the um the old Gordy Frasier building. It's got um you know is that that's some sort of like stone embedded stuckle.

Yeah, it is. Yeah, I think it's concrete stuckle maybe. Like an aggregate like a port aggregate and uh um I don't know what's going into the building next to that. Is that going to be stone or brick? I I just don't know. I'm just I think it's stamped brick because they just did that on State Street also where I think it's cement but then they're putting the painting of the brick on it. I think that's been happening a lot. A lot of fake brick. I question whether or not it's

Yeah. you know, it's I I I mean, honestly, if there's something we wanted to review, I think it's our our, you know, our site plan standards for some of this stuff and actually go back and, you know, and see whether it's still practical or not and do a walking tour. But no, I understand it's a legitimate question. I'm just saying personally I can't vote against it because when I voted against the past, I've always lost. So, I'm just maybe things have changed.

Well, maybe they have, but I don't think it's fair to new applicants when we've ignored those for past applicants. And then I personally point about CVS is that we apparently haven't ignored it for previous applicants. I can find other CVS's in other communities that have breakfast. So, it does seem to be part of their Would you send me one of those? Yeah, that Yeah.

Oh, I guess it's a a matter of definition and um interpretation of definition. So as as Sean mentioned, the ordinance states that the building facade shall be constructed of a material comparable in aesthetic value, right? So it is a subjective decision on your part as as the planning commission and does comparable mean it has to you know test at the same hardness as another building material? Does it have to accomplish the same um aesthetic goals? Um and how do you measure that? Right? So, what's proposed here has a texture and a color that is comparable to natural stone products. Um you know, they could do a a a brick veneer across the entire facade that matches these colors exactly. And I would say this is comparable to that. um

texture. It's your decision though, you know, and it's again, it's how how granular do you want to get with your definition of of comparable aesthetic value in the ordinance? And to Commissioner McGilly's point, has it been enforced in the past? Um, and frankly, do you as a planning commission want to shoehorn every building into having brown brick on it? um you know, a little variation in architectural character across the city in my opinion isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The other thing, and I I agree with Brian that I think maybe reviewing some of those standards at some point would be a good idea, but there's also like an intersection of different values. You know, at the same time, the city is pretty strongly committed to carbon neutrality. You know, reducing its carbon footprint. There isn't a more carbonintensive building product really than brick. You have to fire it all. It creates so much CO2. So you got to weigh those things as you know we're not having you know that deep discussion today but just kind of think about that. You know what what balance do you want to draw? It's Yeah, it's a Yeah, I mean it's I Yeah, I

This is a whole petroleum based product system. The whole All of it. It's plastic. The uh synthetic. It's 2 in of polyio insulation with some frosting on it. Um, so that's interesting too. Is it as durable? I mean, I'm not an expert on that. Uh, I think there have been water infiltration issues with it that I think have been mostly resolved.

So, you know, that's a legitimate question if we're what you're saying is it's basically styrofoam with a hard painted. Yeah. At least at street level, you know that a bike handle can punch punch a hole in it. It's a legitimate concern, especially like you said at street level. Shopping cart. Well, there's probably not shopping carts, but luggage,

scooter, luggage. So, I have been around for a couple of iterations of this property. Um, at least one, maybe just the one, but it feels like it was a very long time ago. Um, I like this. I think it contributes to a lot of the many stories and like webs that we are working under right now. If we have another boutique hotel. Does that mean that that helps increase our housing stock because short-term rentals are going to be less wanted? So, like I love this. I think it's great. I think you can I'm not an expert. You can make a decision on your outside materials when and whenever and you have to go through so many stringent requirements and building permits. like that is not my purview and I don't care. I think I like the change in materials. Um I have a very peculiar building that I live in compared to the rest of the buildings on the street. So um I I just really like that. I think it makes for a creative um neighborhood. So I would really love to make a motion.

Great. Did you already do it? No. Oh, you would make your motion prior to public comment. Yeah, I thought we were. Yeah. I had already assumed you opened the public comment like we did for the other two. So, I'm so sorry. I will wait. No, maybe. You sure? Okay. It's going to be long. I have to read all the bullet points, right? Oh, does she have to read all the bullet points? 1 through 12.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay. Um, I move that the staff report for site plan review application 25 SPR01 be adopted to establish a finding effect and that the application submitted by Great Lakes Capital to construct a four-story 137 guest room hotel with accessory uses at 124 West Front Street be approved with the following conditions. I'm never going to make it. The applicant one the applicant will work in collaboration with the downtown development authority DDA on developing and installing new public streetscape for the full width of the property to include but is not limited to street trees, snow melt system and a first floor location for bike mobility hub as discussed with the applicant. Two, the applicant will work with parking services director on reinstallation of any parking related infrastructure removed or disturbed during construction with purchase and installation costs to be borne by the developer. Three, the applicant will work with Traverse City Light and Power on appropriate reinstallation of any street lighting removed or disturbed during construction with purchase and installation costs to be borne by the developer. Four, the applicant will continue to work with city engineering, municipal utilities, and Traverse City Light and Power on utility extensions and service lines that satisfy all local, state, and federal regulations. Five, the storm water requirements outlined in the city ordinance chapter 1068 are met. The uh six, the three parcels shall be combined as one. Seven, all of the requirements of the city of Traverse City fire prevention ordinance and international fire code are met. Eight, where driveways access West Front Street, equipment pavement markings will need to be installed as approved by the city engineer to inform the driver and warn pedestrians when a motor vehicle is

about to cross the sidewalk. Nine, the city will require confirmation from Eagle that the proposed encroachments in the flood plane will not increase flood levels within the community during the concurrence of a flood-based discharge. 10. The primary entrances along West Front Street shall be set back a minimum of 4 feet from the property line. 11. A third pedestrian entrance shall be added to the south elevation along West Front Street. And 12. All deliveries between the hours of 8 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. shall be prohibited from being loaded and unloaded from the right of way and shall occur internal to the building in the valet dropoff pickup location. Second.

Is there any public comment? I have many more questions. Okay. Okay. So, I'm looking at the elevations and that doesn't look like Stuckco on the ground. Yes, I did. If you're here. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry, I messed up the whole order. Please state your name and address.

Judy Nelson, 429 Garfield Avenue. Um, I just really have one question which I can't find or the answer to in this reams of paper and that is what is the height of the building to the top of the roof. Now I know it shows 58 feet 2 in to the roof deck but and Sean is correct in describing the Anovo situation where it was similarly let's say 58 feet. But by the time they added um insulation and brick and pa or asphalt and pavers, etc., it was over 60 ft. So, one of the one of the concerns that you have to have in this community uh is what's the top of the roof? your zoning ordinance requires that it be measured to the top of the roof and um both the circuit court and the court of appeals said the same thing. So I just that's my question for Great Lakes Capital and I can't find the answer here. Thank you. I guess I I would say that if it's more than 60 ft then it has to go for a vote. If it's less than then you can approve it tonight. So,

thank you. Thank you.

Well, we can get to the light after I refinish my other question. Okay. Um, again, is that stuckco? Because it doesn't look like stucco. What is I mean, it's not traditional Stuckco. It looks like almost like bricks, but maybe it's just a fake Stuckco brick. I don't know.

You're getting a little bit out of my area of expertise, but I will do my best. Um, so the Ephus product is a essentially a synthetic stuckle-like material that aims to replicate a stuckle finish. And so the goal is to have a uniform color and texture across the wall surface itself. You can apply essentially faux jointing to give it patterns as well. Um and I'm I'm not a building material guy and I'm not the architect. I can't answer that. that um it's a it's a faux stuckle product or a synthetic stuckle like product that gives a similar effect.

Okay, moving off the uh stuckle stuff. Um I'm going to go to the river. What do you do along the riverbank? I mean, it doesn't show anything on the plans that indicates anything's happening on the riverbank. There's no landscaping plan included. I know. So, what's going on in the riverbank at this point? There is a planting plan that's being created. We don't have it yet. Um I the the space between the back garage wall and the riverbank will be planted with native material. So, all the all the existing vegetation and trees along the river will be removed.

I don't know if they've decided to remove anything that's there. Um the last time I was on site was I guess it was last fall at this point and the existing vegetation along the river bank isn't in the greatest shape. Um it's essentially the site had been scraped clean during some of the environmental remediation that had been done and had just been left to grow up. And so there's some relatively scraggly volunteer uh vegetation right along the the river bank itself. The remainder of the property is essentially turf grass that's been left to sit um because they reseeded after they they did their remediation work. Um I don't know what they're going to keep and what they're going to uh replace.

A question for staff. Isn't the landscaping plan, especially along the waterfront, that's in no part of our site plan review? We have no it's not something we can consider at all. No, there is a 10- foot setback from the river. Um, so they're not building in that and they're not allowed to remove trees in that setback unless um they are invasive as noted by a certified arborist um or dead or dying. In which case, if they are removed under those conditions, the the stumps and roots have to stay in place and they have to plant two trees for every one tree that gets cut out under those conditions. Now, you'll notice in the conditions and the suggested motion that Commissioner Dur read was the one about satisfying the storm water ordinance. Um, and the engineering department asked to put that one in there. Obviously, they have to, but there was a conversation at the last um, design team meeting. Dusty was not at that one. I think he was helping his family on the farm. Um, but we had other representatives there. And it's likely that the storm water engineer is going to require some sort of bioail right along the edge of the building there in case there is any kind of runoff from the parking lot. It's enclosed so there's no rain. There's no storm water runoff generating out of there. Um but that would just be an improvement and that would be up to the engineering department to to require under their ordinance.

No, we don't require a landscape plan under site plan review. We do for the land use permit. So again, if the if the planning commission was to approve the site plan, that doesn't mean that they can start construction. It doesn't mean that they'll need because they still have to get all their rightaway permits, utility permits, landscape or land use permit, which includes having the landscape plan, the phototric plan. Those are the levels of details that we review internally once the site plan is done. So typically when you get a site plan, they're at about 45 40% um to full construction set. Once the site plans approved, then they finish the plans under that approval and then come in for their permits and that's when we double check for all that stuff.

Okay. So, to answer my question, we don't review the landscape plan. We've got no that's not something that's reviewed by the planning commission. Correct. Okay. We approve that through the issuance of our land use plan.

Same with photometrics. If I may, um, on the subject of trees, um, I think all of the planning commissioners received a a letter from the watershed center yesterday, uh, cautioning about impact on the riverfront and the river itself and the rest of our water resources. Um, I made a very brief site visit and there is at least one and possibly two black willow trees over overshading the river in that in that area of significant size. And I noted that the planning director has the option to request a tree inventory for this site. And I would I would like like to see staff um request that inventory formally. so that we can answer the questions that Mr. Mcgillivary has raised about what vegetation is actually there.

Um, Commissioner Commissioner Anderson, can you estimate whether or not those trees are within the 10 foot buffer on the river? They are. Yes, they are. As far as I could tell, they were they were hanging over the river maybe several feet from the the bank itself.

Yeah. I mean, I I I don't think there's much. And so I Yeah. Yeah. I was curious about that, too. It's why it wasn't requested, especially because of the along the waterfront. I can see that, you know, the area that they're actually doing construction in, there's nothing that's, you know, there's not really any vegetation in there. I mean, it's like said, it's just scrub. It used to be when they first did it was a lawn and after that it just became a urban city field of shrubberies growing up next to the Yeah. So,

record eagle building. To Commissioner Anderson's point, the landscape plan requires existing tree inventory and what trees will be cut down and what ones. So that's all handled after site plan review as part of the land use permit process. So we will have that. We'll have a species list of every plant that they will provide on the site, its location, its quantity, as well as what uh vegetation is retained. So that's all laid out in the zoning ordinance already.

Okay. And it is not ultimately up to us to review at this time. It will be later on, but I am heartened to hear that that will be reviewed. Uh I paddled the Bordon River, including this stretch uh both upstream and downstream this afternoon. And uh most of the trees, well, all the trees are within that 10-ft zone. They are in the bank. Some of them are true not in the best of health. There's a black willow tree, I mean a black locust tree, so technically invasive depending on who you ask. uh that is not vertical but literally horizontal to the water and means that at that point I need to be a little careful how I'm coming out from under the pedestrian bridge that I can't be too far to the um south because there's a tree hanging over half the river. So yes, it is providing some habitat, but I can see a compelling case to remove all but the base uh 5T or so of that tree. But uh the trees that are there are helping to stabilize what would otherwise be a bank uh prone to erosion. Uh, one thing that I would like to see, and we can't put this on as a condition, but just as this place goes from a vacant lot to a parcel that is used, uh, I would like to see either one or two places that are, uh, built as access points to the river. Um, this is uh during the fall fishing season, perhaps the busiest stretch of river uh for salmon fishing. You cannot uh fish for salmon um the other side of the pedestrian bridge. So, this is the highest uh you can fish close to the weir. And if there are one or two access

points, then that's the place where fishermen will go down. If there aren't anything then fishermen will go down at a broad range of places which will lead to overall greater levels of erosion uh stream bank instability and more trash in terms of the lack other things uh line and lures in the tree branches. I'll make sure to pass that along. Thank you.

Just one more question. Um I understood from the packet that given the uh frontage along West Front Street that ordinarily there would be uh nine street trees allocated across that stretch and instead of that there will only be four and $2,700 paid into the tree fund. And I just wanted to ask if there's any way to increase the number of street trees in that stretch.

Yeah. Well, we were going to coordinate with the um with the the streets department and the the forest the city forester um to install street trees in accordance with the specifications for streetscape standards along that section of Front Street.

And and as I read it, perhaps I read it wrong. um that would in include nine street trees across the front of of this piece of property, but instead of that, you're opting for four street trees plus a payment of $2,700 for the five planted trees. When we get into the discussion with TDA for sidewalk improvements, sidewalk heating, and the the city staff for the streetscape improvements, we'll make sure that we hit the number of street trees that are required within the within the specifications for streetscape. Thank you.

Currently five street trees currently five. The Yes. Um that I think he was saying there's currently five in existence today, right? But there are nine per per our goals for street trees. But you have the option to buy out your a certain number. And it looks like we are the buyout is for canopy coverage over the entire parcel. Yeah. Not the street trees. It's it's a separate issue from street trees. Yeah. Okay. All right.

So that that nine I think you're speaking to Jackie is the canopy coverage. So you get 500 square feet I think it is per new tree. And that's so nine gives you the 10% of the lot area. Um, as is often the case that we run into downtown, you're allowed to do 100% lot coverage. So oftent times they'll pay into the the tree fund as that option. Now, I will say as a practice, so you guys know, we've had people because a lot of things we uh approve just in house administratively and we have people try to say, you know, I'd rather just pay into the tree fund because I don't want it to block my building. But if there's room, we always require it. So, that's that's the go-to first. If there's room on the site to plant them, you got to plant them on there. If there is no room because the zoning allows you say 100% coverage, then we accept it into the tree payment tree fund. Sorry.

Thank you. Y if there are no other questions, I'd like to

I just want to ask for clarification to the question from the audience. I'm looking at this as to a top of the roof deck is 58 feet 2 in that is the top of the roof at its highest point correct not including parapits any type of mechanicals anything else I'm asking him my understanding based on what the architects have passed along is that's the top of the roof the flat portion of the root roof structure behind the parapit is at 582 um I can verify that and as we move forward with the permitting process with the planning and zoning department. We'll verify that. But um what I've been told is that it's 582.

Yeah. And I can um comment that we've had very in-depth conversations on that with our city attorney, their legal team and architect and stuff like that. So they're they're well aware of you can't stand on anything above 60 feet and we won't issue a permit if that's a case.

Okay. I'd like to call a motion. Motion a second. So, all in favor? I. All oppose? Opposed? Opposed. Okay, we roll call vote. Uh, O'Brien, yes. Dur. Yes. Anderson, no. Nap, no. Melberry, no. And Treadwell, yes. and Hershey. Yes. So, we have uh three nos, five yeses. Oh, she cares. Four. Four yeses.

Four. There only seven of us here. I think I counted Mitchell twice. Sorry. I have not two people.

That carries. It does carry. Okay. So, I just like to comment. It was for me it was the stuckco. Me as well. Yeah. So, um I guess I'd just be the minority again following what I consider the ordinance and getting vote it down. Oh, maybe the next time.

I think that I would just say that according to the bottom of this, we need I just want to be very careful if we ever vote no and we deny things because we have to establish the reason. So, as of right now, if we don't decide to elaborate and go into the building materials part and re-examine that, then maybe that could stand. But I don't feel comfortable taking the chance of a lawsuit bec because there's not enough legs to something. So, I just want to put that out there that like yes, I understand sometimes we want to vote no for things, but there have to be legs with it. So, one thing I would like to recommend for maybe our next meeting in September is to bring this back for discussion on those materials. Um, I've written some ordinances where we have put in tables where you can you either can have up to a certain percent of the facade covered in material or you must have a minimum of a certain material. Personally, I hate IAUS. I I just think it looks cheap. Um, sorry, Dusty. he's not the architect and so he's not the one making the business decisions for the client on that end. But I think there's based on what I heard today plenty of opportunity to dive into this um and get it dialed in so it's not the applicant's burden to try to navigate something that's not very clear.

We can and should be more clear on that. I think so too. For sure. I agree. We need to bring that back. And I I'll say just from practice as I interpreted it, I have been enforcing it much much harder than it had been in the past on our administrative approvals. And I've actually got a lot of kickback about that largely because it drives up costs like Brian had mentioned and stuff like that. But um again, I think there's a better defined way to do this than what's in the ordinance today. So if you support that, we'll work on it to bring it back in September at some point. And would that affect this project? No, it will not. No, it will go forward with plastic stuckco. Mhm. Yeah, it got approved.

No, no, no. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thanks. We'll be in touch on the next steps. Thanks, Sean. Yep. Let's move on to reports. Update from the city commission. Next meeting is August the 18th. We have a new city manager. We have a new deputy I mean we have a new city clerk. We have a new deputy city clerk all in acting capacities. Any updates from planning department that we haven't discussed?

Uh not a whole lot. Um I think we've kind of touched on Leslie. Is there anything that you can think of? I mentioned it earlier when I introduced the um interns. I almost called that. Sorry. Um, we did submit our application in June for the bicycle friendly community status, which is uh a recognition by the League of American Bicyclists going back at least 12 years ago. The city received a bronze certification. I don't know if some of you were around when that happened. It it's good for a period of time. It has since expired. Um, they only have one application deadline, so we had to work really really hard to get it in. I don't know that it is the most robust application we could have put together in that timeline, but I want to commend staff and the interns for how hard they worked as well as our partners. We decided to go for it nonetheless for the opportunity to get feedback on the application, then we can improve and reapply next year. So, that was something that we did and also the um AARP aging friendly communities. So, those are some some things that we're working on that have actually given us a lot of good guidance internally as staff of things to think about. Uh Leslie has set up a meeting later this month for all the entities that helped with the bicycle friendly communities because they learned a lot just reviewing the application of ideas that they may want to implement. So um just grateful for everyone who worked on that and the collaboration.

Um one other thing I just bring to your attention is that we've been working with the Michigan Economic Development Corporation um on a resiliency toolkit and um Um, we have had two of three or I guess three of four meetings of a committee that represent uh different interests within the city, mostly staff and um looking at ways to um improve resiliency going forward uh to be more um more uh able to withstand um economic uh you know any kind of um threats that come our way whether it's weather or um something that uh you know a health scare it could be something within the city or without from outside forces and how well prepared are we? So, um it they're also making efforts to align it with the new strategic plan um and make sure that it coincides with the with the pillars within that plan. So, um this will be our our final meeting this week on Thursday and um they're producing um a document that will help us move forward and it's uh it's been a great process and free to the city. So, great. Anything else?

I think that's it. Update from the Grand Traverse Commons Joint Planning Commission. We're at a short meeting. Well, no, no, no.

A short agenda, a long meeting. So, uh, we're starting the review of our master plan. Um, the last time the master plan had a significant review was 2009. And more than perhaps any other portion of the city, the Grand Service Commons has seen a lot of change in the last 15 years. So, we need to do some updates to what the infrastructure is, what the um development landscape is, how many people live there, how many businesses are there, uh what the currently underway uh plan for future redevelopment is, and many other considerations

including parking ahead. Oh yeah. Yeah. Streets, parking. All right. Infrastructure. Update from the board of zoning appeals. We didn't meet. Update from the riparian buffer committee meeting Thursday. Thursday. All right. Looking forward to that report. There any closing public comment? Apparently not. So this meeting is ajourned. Thank you everyone.