Board of Aldermen - Special Meeting

Oh yeah.

Not irregular. I would say my comment is I never thought 30 40 degrees could seem so long as it does today. Um but we will start this uh I believe it is mandatory that we take. Yes. Alderman Gerber here. Alderman Harter here. Alderman Hughes here. Alderman Canella here. Alderman Sawyer here. And alderman Schwer present. I have Alderman Freriedman and Alderman Murphy is absent. Mary is presiding. And we do have a quorum. Thank you very much. And today's meeting is simply to give an update on our dear management program. And I will let Mr. Shelton VR MC and introduce our guest.

Uh thank you, mayor. Uh I'm going to give a little brief update on some information I provided at our retreat. But before I do, just by way of introduction, who our main uh speakers and answer your questions today will be Erin Shank, who has been involved with our program since the inception. Uh Erin is a supervisor with the Department of Conservation. She's moved up since starting out and she is a wildlife biologist supervisor and holds a master's degree in wildlife conservation. Also with us from the department of conservation is Miranda Wilkinson. Miranda also has a master's degree in wildlife conservation and is the urban wildlife biologist with the department of conservation. Ryan Rot has been involved in our program since its inception. He is with White Buffalo and he'll give an update on where our numbers are. Um and then also I want to be sure to introduce Tom Thousand with our public works department also involved since the inception of our program. Tom is the boots on the ground. Anybody that's been involved, people in the front row are nodding their head up and wouldn't be possible. Absolutely would not be possible without Tom. Appreciate here. Also, just so everybody knows, Ray Wagner is here. as a commissioner with the Department of Conservation. Uh so what I'd like to do is just real briefly uh give you some updated numbers. So we went through this information at the retreat, but basically when the program started, we're about 60 deer per square mile through the program. You can see the numbers taken each year. As we go down, there were some big years over 200. Uh the numbers now, the last time we did the distance sampling, it was about 24 uh deer per square mile. Uh Ryan tells us we'll be at probably around 50 this

year taken and he'll give some updates on what they're seeing with their uh distance sampling uh that they actually track what the populations are. Um, and then also we track the deer vehicle collisions. Uh, so as I told you at the retreat, they started up around 90. We averaged the first 10 years, they were at about 85. We averaged the second 10 years of our program and they're at about 54. This year, uh, 2025, we were at 44 deer vehicle collisions. Um, one is too many, but obviously the program has drastically reduced the number of deer vehicle collisions. Also, just FYI, I did take the number of deer through our program, which is about 50. The number of vehicle collisions, 44. We also pick up an additional 14. You always see it on your warrant list now, our payable list. Uh and then we have another 16 that were taken by bow hunters and queen park. So altogether that's 124 deer removed from our population last year roughly. So uh without any further ado I will turn it over to Aaron and Miranda to give you their perspective from department.

And before you start as someone who used to live in Wildwood eons ago who has had a deer car interaction it's really not much fun. It's not much fun at all. So, Erin,

good afternoon. Uh, thank you so much for inviting us here today. Um, as, uh, Bob has mentioned already. I've been partnered with Town and Country, uh, in my previous role with Department of Conservation since, uh, the beginning of deer management program and really even before that as well. Um, so I just kind of wanted to take a minute to talk about the Department of Conservation's role in uh urban deer management. Um so as the state department that sets the state wildlife code um and enforces that code, we also work with communities on wildlife issues uh whether that be nuisance issues or habitat improvement projects and whatnot, but also including urban deer management. So, um, most urban deer management throughout the state, most deer management, but certainly most urban deer management as well occurs through our regular hunting seasons. Um, so that would be uh between September 15th and January 15th each year um encompasses all of our various seasons for deer harvest. Um, and then outside of that regular hunting season, we have different methods that can be specially authorized to like like the program in town and country to um help communities meet their deer management goals. Um, and those methods include bait and sharpshoot like um is done in Town and Country as well as in the city of Dupair and the city of Wildwood occasionally as well um through managed hunts. Those do also occur during the hunting season, but they are kind of separate from our hunting season in that um those hunters are kind of drawn from a lottery system and those deer do not count against their quota um

that they are allowed to take during the regular hunting season. Um and Queeny Park would be an example of a managed hunt that would impact the the deer population in town and country. Um and we cooperate with St. those county parks to administer that hunt as well as a handful of others across the county. Um, and then the the other method that we can permit but we kind of try not to is uh is trap and euthanasia um because that is really inefficient and pretty stressful on the animals themselves. However, if you're familiar with the history of town and country deer management, then um you know that was a method that was utilized in town and country back in the early uh days of I guess it was probably 20201 um until about 2005. So those are the methods that are allowable by the wildlife code um by special authorization um or through our regular hunting season. And so when working with communities to to kind of help figure out what method is going to work best for those communities, we serve in an advisory capacity really. So um some communities feel very comfortable with allowing for archery hunting, for example, on private properties to allow for the harvest of deer, then we can work with them to craft an ordinance that would allow for that. um community like Town and Country uh has gone with the bait and sharpshoot as as working well for your community and so we work with you there to set harvest goals and um and to issue the authorization. Um so I just kind of wanted to go over some of some of our roles there. Um, I wanted to also add that in case I think you guys are probably all aware, but it's anyone listening online as well, any of the deer harvested through this special authorization, all those deer are put to use. Um, they're donated by the city of

town and country through our share of the harvest program. Um, and in our part of the state, all that meat ends up at um, Operation Food Search, the the meat that's going for human consumption or um, is utilized by the um, the St. Louis Zoo on their wolf um, uh, population reintroduction program, their rearing and reintroduction. So, I just kind of wanted to make a note of that, too, that that resource is required by permit to be utilized. Um, I'm going to ask you really quick, I know I forgot probably something important. Do we want to address sterilization?

Can I just make one quick comment? Um, and you correct me if I'm wrong. Um, if I this is like a kudos to Missouri Department of Conservation. I think I remember reading an article in your magazine, the Missouri Conservationist that in the 1930s it was very there weren't many deer in Missouri, like many at all. like that if you saw hoof marks in the forest as opposed to actually seeing a deer that was kind of a big deal. That was the number of deer in the state was that sparse at that time.

That's correct. Uh we estimate we pro the population statewide probably got down below 1,000. Um which is pretty remarkable. Uh today's population is well over a million deer. Obviously that fluctuates depending on the time of year but um yes when you think about it over the last hundred years white tailed deer is a tremendous conservation success story. Uh and a lot of that is when the department of conservation was formed in 1937 one of the very first actions taken by that uh by that department at that time was to shut down the harvest of deer entirely. Um so we're we're definitely living in a different time now. Um, but I I I appreciate you bringing that up, mayor, because I think that is uh is a good perspective to keep in mind. Um, so thank you.

Can you also just real briefly tell me where our state stands relative to other states in terms of that what I call chronic wasted disease?

Sure. Um, so chronic wasting disease is a 100% fatal deer disease. It is caused by a pryion, just to give you a little background to kind of define what it is. Um, so a pryion is a misfolded protein. So it's not a virus or bacteria. Um and so there's a there's a lot we have yet to learn about pryion diseases, but uh one thing that we are are coming to understand is that once those pryions exist on the landscape, they persist. Um so unlike a virus that you know when the host dies, the virus tends to not live on very long. Those pions are not actually a living thing and they can continue to be infectious on the landscape. um we don't know how long uh but it seems quite a long time. Um this is just a disease of servids. So those would include in Missouri white-tailed deer and elk. So that does not um affect other animals beyond servants. Um so chronic wasting disease was first detected in a freeranging um uh freeranging deer in uh in the late 2010, 2009, 2010. And um so since then we have been spending a lot of resources surveilling and controlling the spread of that disease. We have still a low prevalence rate which is the good news. Um we do have chronic wasting disease in a number of counties throughout the state. Um most recently including St. Louis County. We have found our first positive in St. Louis County somewhat recently. Um but our prevalence appears statewide to still be below 2%. Um and that is very good news. Uh and thanks to a lot of the control efforts that have been going on. So um we do we are committed to um to that to managing that wildlife health threat in the long term.

Thank well it's also probably a good time to bring up the fact of like transllocating deer or removing deer and and bringing them to another location uh is a big disease spread is a huge issue with that. So, a lot of people would like to see deer be re removed and relocated somewhere else, you know, out to a state park or, you know, a conservation area somewhere else so they're not gonna, you know, die or or whatever. But, um, unfortunately with not only chronic wasting disease, but, um, we have epzotic, hemorrhagic disease, blue tongue, other deer diseases, um, transllocation and removing deer and moving them to a new location is is not really a viable option um, in this scenario. And then um

yeah um now that there's a positive are um are all the deer that are taken are they being tested because obviously I'm from Wisconsin I have a huge hunting background so I know all about chronic wasting disease and yes problems with overpopulation. So are are you going to advise white buffalo to test the deer now that uh chronic wasting has been detected here? Yes. So all deer are donated through share the harvest in any of our counties under surveillance which include St. Louis County are tested prior yes prior to the distribution of the meat.

Just one other quick question. You know, I've treated a few patients, not many for Lyme disease. Uh and I think I believe it started in New Haven, Connecticut, the first cases, and it's obviously more prevalent, I think, there in the upper Midwest parts of Michigan. I was saw rate of it in Missouri. I haven't really checked the stats on that lady. Um just curious. Um Lyme disease in particular is low but that but other tickborn diseases um heriosis in particular and alpha gal are on the rise and alpha gal we were just kind of talking about this appears to be on a pretty precipitous alarming rise um which is a tickborn disease and um yeah and so we're seeing quite a bit of that and

that's a bad disease. Yes, that is that is the one that essentially triggers an allergy so to speak to me. Thank you. Thank you. And they'll obviously both be around to answer any questions. Um while I pull up Ryan Rot screen, I did forget to mention Ryan is actually a senior wildlife biologist with White Buffalo. Uh he has a degree in wildlife science from Purdue University. Ryan, am I correct? And so he's had an opportunity to do some uh distance sampling. So Ryan, if you want to talk about what you're seeing, Ryan, we got to be thrilled for Indiana.

Yeah. As a boiler maker, not as thrilled as if you're from my view. But uh yeah, it was it was a good night for Indiana last night. Um just generally for the folks that don't know me, I'm my name is Ryan Roach. I'm a senior wildlife biologist with White Buffalo. Um, we're a nonprofit wildlife research organization. So, uh, our specialty is really managing deer in suburban environments. And so that goes from suburban deer sharpshoots, managing regular hunts, uh, contraceptive research, any way that you're trying to manipulate deer in suburbia, that's what we're involved in for the most part. Um, as far as town of country goes, I've been here uh since White Buffalo implemented the program back in, I believe it was 2009 when it was both a combination program of, uh, sharpshoot and sterilization. Um, and I've been on the project every year since. So, um, any time that, uh, we did a a management operation in town of country, I've been here. Uh, the data that that I'm going to present today is just the first two nights observation from the distance sampling. So, um, the numbers that I'm going to quote may change, right? But um as we did our route, it's substantially different than uh what it looked like even 10 years ago. Right now the the kind of focal point of the deer population in town tends to be along Mason Road adjacent to Queenie Park and then there's still a small residual population um in the Mason Valley area. Uh overall the we have another night's data in here. I think this was the first night's observation. We can bring it up. This is the second night observation. Um this is a cluster. I think there was there might have been six or eight year total in

that group. And then obviously along Queenie Park down by the dog museum. Um really tends to be the the focal point of where we're seeing deer in the community. uh quite the change from 10 years ago when you would have 30 or 40 deer along topping road. If you went across Thorn Hill, you'd probably see another 20. Um all the area up along Principia down in through Town Country Estates, Ammersham, Bickford, that was all, you know, just loaded with gear. So, it's quite the change. Uh when I run the first two nights data through program distance, it's coming up with about 12 to 15 deer per square mile in town of country with a range of about 7 to 22. So you know when we started it was 60. So you've reduced population by roughly 70%. Um and that's low. You know, I'll be honest, that's as low as we've reduced a population in a community. um which wasn't a total eradication. So we've done eradications on uh mostly on islands but in some national parks uh but if this data holds with one more sample night this will be as low as we've maintained a population. So um from that from that standpoint it's good right? Um and then I do have one other I think it's on here. Yeah. So what we've seen over time, and we take a lot of flack for this, right? The number of males that we harvest as part of the population is increasing and it's a straight up trend from the from the start of the program. And while we don't know, what we believe is happening is as populations reduce, as juvenile males disperse from other communities that have higher populations than uh town and country, when they if they happen to pass through town and country, there's going to be a lot less social pressure, right? There's a lot less deer on the

landscape, and because of that, then they take up residents. So what that means is that um the number of males compared to the number of females is likely rising in the community and so that kind of has been reflective over the last whatever it is. You know you got 16 17 years that number's kind of grown and so um it's just reflective of where we're at as far as deer management in the community. You guys have any questions? Does conserviperation tell you the types that you can harvest or you just tracking to get numbers?

Um, yeah, it's stimulated the total number of antler males that I can harvest. Um, but they don't give me any direction on how that goes. Um, from our perspective, we obviously target adult females if given the opportunity. Um, but we'll take deer of either sex, right? It's like they both have the same likelihood of being hit by a car. Uh they're both same for disease vectors. Um it can be argued that they the males do more landscape damage. You know, it's like some of the residents in town are specifically wanting us to remove males because they're damaging their trees and landscape. So, um while we prioritize adult females will will take either sex based on opportunity cap. Correct.

Correct. Any other questions? How many communities do you serve in like town or country? And then I mean just pro probably this winter will probably be around 15. Okay. Um and that's that runs the gamut from we've got uh two ongoing surgical sterilization projects. We got several sharpshoots. We'll do population estimates in probably a dozen communities. Uh we've got research programs going on. So, kind of runs the gamut, but you know, locally here, we do two sharpshoot programs and um in the past we've done up to three plus a lot of population estimates as well.

All right. Thank you. Um uh Mr. Shelton had notified me the other day that I think you are you guys no longer able to do Believe or did you guys Yeah, that's correct. How's that going to affect the numbers? probably it probably affected this year's numbers by 20 deer. You know, if we look at what we harvested there last year, I think between the two sites up along the northern edge of Bel Reeve, that was 20 deer. Um my guess is that it would be something similar this year. So, it probably impacted the harvest numbers by 20 deer. And is that just for this year that you're not allowed to do it or is it is it going to be moving forward you're not going to be allowed to?

My belief is is that it was a one-time event. um it had to do with the timing of the program and hunting that was happening along that um border in Leoo. And so uh MDC would be able to speak to that more directly, but you know, I think that this was my hope is that this was a one-off and it was just a a timing issue. Um I didn't see any up from Hunter Farms up there. In the past, that had been a huge area. Yeah.

Is that down? We haven't well two we lost the two sites that were up in that area that were along Believe. We had one on Bel Ree Country Club grounds and then we had another one um that was up on your field. We haven't worked on Hunter Farms directly for probably 8 to 10 years. Yeah, we had access there and their original property manager uh had passed away and when he passed away then we'd lost access to that property and it was honestly it was never really as productive as we anticipated. We thought that we would harvest more deer there, but it it really didn't pan out the way we had planned.

Thanks, Ryan. Super information, very helpful. Um, I I know that one of the arguments that bow hunters have made is that that using the sharp shooting strategy is not as safe for people around and it's it's can be noisy and therefore disruptive. Can you tell me a little bit about what it is that you do to make certain that there's no risk of an injury to someone or any any property? And in addition, is there any notification from people's surroundings that they would expect to hear gunshots?

Yeah, generally um you know, we're using topographical relief to ensure that we've got a safe earthn backdrop, right? Whether that's being elevated off of a deck, a tree stand, using natural topography to make sure that if there was an errant shot, it would go into nursering background. Um, that's that's the number one um mechanism for safety. We also use a highly frangible bullet so that if there happen to hit a hard substrate that it fragments so that no piece of uh substantive size or mass ends up exiting whatever it it impacts. Um, as far as the noise, we use suppression. Uh, unfortunately, it's not like the movies. It's the silencers don't completely silence it because our bullets break the speed of sound. So, you still get the sonic crack. Um, but it's I would liken it to a muffler on your car, right? If the muffler's not working on your car, it's really loud, but if the muffler's on there, that's tolerable. So, we use that. Um, typically I notify the residents that are approximate to each site that I'm working. Um, I I notify the resident's property that we'd be working on, ask them if it was okay if we work on their property that evening. Once I get the okay, then I make the notifications to adjoining property owners. Typically, I'm looking for permission that it's okay. Um, because it does me no good to try to work on their property. If they've got a dinner party or something going on that's going to impact us, it's not good for them and it's not good for us. So, I just make sure the communication's open. Uh NBC gets notification of which properties that we're working on and then Tom notifies local PD of where we're working so everybody's aware of where we're operating each evening.

Okay. Thank you. One quick question in terms and then when you shoot a dinner um what percent drop dead right then and what percent maybe wander off into somebody's yard? We've had zero wander off into somebody's yard in since 2009. Right. Um, we operate very conservatively, right? Sometimes the numbers don't reflect the the the decisions that we make, but um, safety is the number one priority. We've been doing this for 30 years, right? And you can't you can't afford to take a risk, right? So, I would assume the times that since you've been to town country, there have been no constituents of the city who have been accidentally shot.

No, no, no, no. The other one is dogs. People worry about their pets, but the reality of the situation is is if a pet's moving through your zone, the deer aren't there, right? So, they're never, excuse me, they're never at risk, right? And it's pretty easy to identify the difference between a dog and a and a deer. We're not shooting far distances, right? I that and that's the difference between bow hunting. Some people may not understand. explain when you shoot a deer with a bow the the prevalence of having to track the bow or track the deer because yes it doesn't when you bow hunt it doesn't drop the deer track it might want to explain that to some people we're not familiar with

yeah I'm happy to um we euthanize all the deer that we remove right and if we follow the American Veterinary Medical Association standard for remote euthanasia uh that's a gunshot to the center of the brain or the upper cervical spine which is the C1 through C3. So all deer that we remove are dead instantaneously. Um that differs from archery where um even if you have a good shot, the flight distance is going to be 30 to 100 yards, right? And so when you look at property size, you really need to have good relationships with the the surrounding properties because it's likely that that animal will not perish on the property that you're working on if it's a reasonably small lot size, right? If you're working on one of the bigger estates in town of country where it would be 80 acres, maybe not a concern, but most of the properties are in the threeacre neighborhood, right? So um the likelihood is that that animal would exit the property. So, all in favor,

two questions. Um, the first one is, I had received a lot of emails from constituents um suggesting sterilization and neutering versus sharp shooting. Um, can you address the pros and cons of both of those? My second question would be, um, you had thrown out some numbers, um, as far as where do your population stands at this point? I believe you said it was around 10 to 15 or something like 10 17. um that's below I believe was our goal was originally 20. Um so at this point moving forward do we see that we need to continue um having sharp shooting at this point if we have are currently below our 20 number that we're trying to attain?

Yeah. Um certainly. So when we look at sterilization and and we'll have two on ongoing sterilizations um two two projects working this year. We've got one on Staten Island, which is male-based sterilization, and we have one um up in Beachwood and South Uklid in Ohio. That's a female-based sterilization. Um when we look at sterilization, the types of environments that are most appropriate is when you have high development, right? Uh what's important is having access to the animals um in a pretty short distance. So, when you're trying to capture deer with uh darting equipment, which is what we use, we use a anesthesia agent agent put in a very small dart. You're looking at maybe 15 to 20 yards is as far as you can fire that dart safely. Um, if you try to crank up the pressure higher than that, you run the risk of burying the dart in an animal and turning it into a basically a projectile like an arrow. If you turn down the pressure too much, the deer's gone before the the dart gets there. So, kind of the critical window is that 15 to 20 yards. And so, what you really are looking for is a development interface where you're able to interact with that animal at a relatively short distance. So, that means a lot of roadways and small lot sizes work really best for sterilization. So when you look at it, it's like most of the places where we've been successful with sterilization uh type programs, it's really high development, right? So the deer have integrated themselves into, you know, 8th acre, quarter acre, maybe third acre lots is the the pre prevalent development type. Um we've done some projects that have bigger landscapes than that, but generally that's where it works best. Um, so is it practical in Town of Country?

The difficulty here would be the lot sizes are so large, right? You look at that interface where I can get within 20 yards of a roadway, that's pretty limited, right? And so being able to interact with those animals would be much more challenging. You could bring them to a bait site similar to the way that we do sharp shooting, but that's pretty inefficient, right? You get one dough, you anesthetize her, you've got usually it's about five to seven minutes before she under she uh secedes to the anesthesia. So, they can travel a pretty long ways in in you know 5 to seven minutes. If she moves from your bait site away and she has a female fawn with her, it's you you no longer have the opportunity to capture her. And so you have to go in, pick up the animal, bring it out, do the sterilization. We do surgical based sterilization, not chemicals. So you'd have to bring her out, do the surgery, and you're disrupting the landscape. So it's a rough, it's a pretty inefficient process. Um, it's much better if you can drive through town and interact with that deer off a roadway, right, instead of trying to bait them. Does that make sense? Yeah. So, you know, there's some areas of town where we were pretty successful in the early days. Mason Valley was one of them, right? The developed lots were a little bit smaller. There's a pretty good network of roads in there. You could interact with the deer pretty well. Um I think the first year we might have captured I think 100 deer, sterilized 100 deer. Um so at that time there was a lot of deer. They were very naive. One thing that's changed in Tom and Country is the prevalence of uh coyotes. Literally every site that we worked on this year, there's been multiple coyotes. We started to see that last year. And so what has happened is now the deer are super skiddish. When we would do the

distance sampling at night in previous years, you'd drive around and you'd see a group of deer. You shine them with a spotlight. You'd get your binoculars out. You try to determine age and sex, right? and the deer would stand there and they'd be pretty naive. Now, if you slow down the vehicle, you shine a light on them, they're running. So, if you look at when we do the report, you'll be able to look at the raw data and there'll be a lot of undetermined, right? It's number of deer, three, and sex and age is unknown. It's because you saw the deer and by the time you marked them in the landscape, they've moved away so far that you don't have you can't tell if it's an adult female or a juvenile female or an antlerless male, right? And so, um, that's that's likely a product of both the predation that's happening in town and low density, right? As as the density decreases, typically the deer become a little more skittish. They don't need to interact with humans quite as much. Uh the second part of your question, you take a year off if our density is this low.

I think so. I mean, you know, it's like you do too good a work and you work yourself right out of a job, but uh if it holds that you guys are at 15 deer per square mile, yeah, I think it's suitable that you take a year off, especially if your goal is 20 to 30 and that goal is based on social carrying capacity, right? What were what will your community tolerate? Um thank Uh Tom will attest you don't get a lot of deer complaints anymore. You know, um one of our homeowners up on Dry Ridge said that he thought that the deer population was as low as it was when his father moved here back in the 80s,

you know, which which when he told me that I was I was somewhat shocked. Um and and it took us a little bit to understand what was happening this year, right? It was like we started the project, it was super mild. There was a heavy mass crop this year, so a lot of acorn. So there was a lot for the deer to eat. Bait consumption was way down. And we weren't sure if that was a product of a low population, super mild temperatures, or a lot of mass crop on the ground. So until I got out, did the first night of sampling, I wasn't I wasn't 100% confident that what we were seeing was a low population. there was prob possibility that it was, you know, just the mild temperatures and the the acorn crop. But yeah, based on two nights, I'm pretty confident that um where I'm from in Wisconsin, there's a lot a lot of times people you guys have degrees can verify this, but the animals sometimes they learn and they know not to go into areas where they know they're going to get

like shot. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, are there areas is there other areas around here that they could be going to like say if we take a year off and like oh this place is safe again then you know because depending on how in Wisconsin there's T-zones you know certain you know areas you can take more deer or not like deer they're smart they they tend to year after year a couple years in a row they the numbers drop because they go somewhere else They know they're going to get shot. Any reason you think that they they might be going other than like Queenie? Are they are they dispersing because they know this is not a safe area for them or

Well, all the data that we have is that the home range of deer in suburbia is pretty small, right? You're looking at a dough has maybe a home range of 160 acres, a buck, double that, right? They don't know what's over in depair or over in wild and they're not going there, right? Um the the theory behind dispersal and dear is it's called the rose petal theory but um you have a matriarch dough and she has female offspring. Her female offspring are slightly overlap her home range and that's how the population grows. The males disperse much further. Right? It's not atypical to see a male disperse five miles or more. Um, and that's that's we think nobody knows for sure, but we think that that's to help prevent inbreeding, right? You don't want a male a dominant males being in the same home range as their mother or their sisters or other siblings. So, they disperse greater distances. So, what you're likely to see is that you're going to get some ingress and you're going to get some egress. Um, when populations are probably similar, that probably balances out. But since you're at a lower density than some of the surrounding communities, you're probably in that gainer as far as dispersal events go.

And if I just I'll get you one second, but um tell me if I'm right or wrong about this is I think sterilization isn't legal in Missouri anyway. Or is it? I'll let Aaron answer that. That's not my That's not my cup of tea. Did you say bug sterilization? I mean, just sterilization.

Oh, okay. Um so any kind of fertility control including sterilization on a native wildlife species in Missouri requires some written authorization from the director. So um it is not legal to without that. Um now we did cooperate with town and country in 2009 and 2010 on the sterilization project um in order to authorize that. Um and that had never been done before in Missouri and we still have to learn and we did learn a lot from that project. Um, so to answer your question, it's it's kind of a no, it's not legal, but but we can allow for that authorization.

And I don't want to be laborous here too much longer, but like in a 30 second capsule, tell me how we're doing with our bear population. Our bear population.

Yeah, sure. Um, so the bear population is is healthy and expanding. Um, and actually it's a timely question, especially for St. most communities. I spoke recently to the uh the city managers association and kind of mentioned that um it is not too soon to be talking bearaware um to your residents. Um you know it's not an imminent thing that we're going to have an urban bear population in St. Louis, but we do all the all the models are that bears are uh that population is expanding and it is likely going to kind of expand up that Marramac River corridor towards St. Louis. So just being thinking about things like trash, you know, trash maintenance and whatnot. That that's going to become a bigger a bigger thing over the next generation.

Thank you. How about the coyote? Is there I live on an acre and a half and I've seen the same one repeatedly, but I mean I've seen more coyote than usual. Is that something you should be? Uh, you know, we've seen coyotes have expanded all throughout North America and really exist in all all landscapes basically um throughout North America including cities and towns. Um, and so their population like most populations will eb and flow uh just as those population dynamics go. One of the big mortality uh or causes of mortality amongst our coyote populations other than cars is uh mange. So we do see occasional sarcoptic mange outbreaks which tends to reduce the population back down. So uh I don't know if town and country is kind of right for seeing some of that happen. Um you know I'm not we can't really predict that necessarily. That said, we don't manage coyotes like we do white tailed deer in that coyotes being a totally different species reproduce based on social hierarchy. And so, uh, man, so it it's just a whole other wall of waves.

Thank you. And finally, Mr. Wagner, since you're a commissioner on the Missouri Department of Conservation, is there anything you want to add or say? I just want to afford you the opportunity if you want. Well, thank you, Mr. Mayor. It's a pleasure to be here. I learned about this meeting through Alderman Consella, who mentioned it to me a week or so ago, and I thought I would come as much as a resident of town and country, which I've been for the last three or four years as a commissioner. Um, I grew up in the Baldwin area and I was around when there were no deer. There were more quail at that time. And that is the eb and flow of the wildlife system which makes it so fascinating. There were not many coyotes and there my daughter corrected me said no dad it's coyotes. I said no mayor when I'm involved with the commission. So I don't know what Missouri but u uh when that conversation came up I did make little note that there was an article put out press release about watch your pets uh during these next two months because coyotes are in their mating season and I showed that to my three children uh to beware of their dogs even let out for 60 seconds in the backyard. So that that's a an observation put out by the MDC. Uh deer is something deer management is something that is taken very seriously by by the MDC and by the commission the whole discussion the CWD the studies of what's going on in Wisconsin and all of that has been front of mind to the commission and to the department to the director who himself was the lead deer biologist uh early his career. Um, and so we watch and and undertake every action we can and Missouri has largely been regarded as really state-of-the-art, top

of class in its management techniques and those are always evolving as you saw just two or three weeks ago with the CWD program. But I have been aware of county and country and the programs here just from living here. I'm watching what's going on in Wildwood and I understand the citizen concern, but I also know that the community is in great hands by being aware and by addressing it and getting involved and so it's professionals uh like these folks and others from the department uh that make it a pleasure for me to be a part of and their awareness I guess is in our future. I'm pretty confident. I'm told I asked the question, when are elk going to start wandering up Highway 44? And I'm assured that that's not going to happen for many years. That that will be a menace to your gardens when that when that happens. I'm sure by then we'll continue to be a great but thank you, Mr. Mayor, and thank you all for having the concern to do this and we're here for you in the future.

Thank you very much. And I'd like to thank our guests for coming and presenting this information. Members of the community came here. I'd like to thank the board of Auburn for taking time out of their day. And I think personally I think this is very helpful for me frankly and so a lot very informative. We had we had a video that we wanted to show about this. Oldman Gerber had sent a video and said if we had time it's I think five minutes.

So bring your hand out starts at 25 seconds. Oh we have 25 seconds you can jump ahead. Looks like there's closed caption, too. Oh, Morgan, for audio, can I just put this microphone down? It'll play through this.

It'll play. Mayor, can I have a copy of what? It's here more.

I've been working for 25 seconds. Hi, my name is Alan. I am director of health center and public policy as well as an associate research professor in the department of infectious disease and global health at the coming school of veterary medicine. Um I've been working on wildlife fertility control for about uh 30 years mostly concentrating on deuric horses. Um I'm particularly interested in the um application of nonvasive cut reception to um urban and suburban deer populations. So that's where my my emphasis has been. Um I've been working primarily with the psyucida or PCP vaccine. Um we like the PCP vaccine because the mechanism um by which it it operates doesn't involve any sort of broad behavioral or normal effects. It targets specifically the um fertilization process um and is as noninvasive as something like this can be. Um so what we've done over the last 30 years is we've shown that the vaccine works on individuals. We've shown variety of situations that we can also control populations with it. There are actually two versions. Um one is a version uh which is registered with EPA called Zastat which um requires annual boosters um which is only effective in places where you can get your get a D form vaccine into into animals pretty much every year which is required to deal with

populations of anything. Um the other version which we have been working on for both horses and deer is called PCP22 and PPP22 um works as a oneshot multi-year vaccine because it includes control release pellets that act as boosters effectively. And so for deer, what we find is a single PP 22 will give about two to three years worth of contraception and a booster for PCP22 or with the zonat the native PVP will add another three four or more years of compressent. So for a lot of places a lot that may be an effective version of the vaccine. Um we have approach population control on a couple places. Some of them have been islands but the most recent place that we worked um Hastings and House in New York um is not an island but we were able to reduce the population the deer population by 50% over five years or so. Um that that is about three square miles. It's on river but has on all their sites. Um so that's where we are technically. Um there are a couple things that we're trying to improve. First um for practical reasons and for research reasons we've mostly been capturing deer and tag so we know who's been treated and who hasn't and should follow individually for their reduction. Um and so we're trying a couple different things to see that. Um the other issues are regular. So many states, most states perhaps don't have mechanisms by which they can

issue permits to manage wild populations with PCP. So that is one challenge. The other is that it needs to be registered with EPA as a pesticide of all things and so the the zonat vaccine is already registered with PC2 not we're process of working with EPA manufacturing components to see if we can get that through but at this point we're not sure how long it will take especially with the EPA and condition that is in right We've had complete terrible personnel the last 20 last two years. Um so that people have pretty what we're doing. Um, in any case, we're looking forward to making work. I say technically the vaccine works well because tend to stay put tend to stay. It works pretty well on the local level, but we still have these technical challenges.

Just wanted to mention, of course, you said it's not regulated even at the national level yet. Um, so I just wanted to show this um to kind of put it on the radar for the future. Um, it would be a way that could control fertility. Um, especially since we're down so low. Um, we want to go back up again. May be something we want to look at when it gets regulated. Then of course we have to talk to NBC and see what they Thank you. Thank you. And now I think we probably need I just make it informal. I'm move to a journ. All in favor? Thanks everybody. Thank you very much.