City Council - Regular Meeting

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Good evening. I will call the city council meeting to order. It's 5:01 p.m. Deputy City Clerk, may I have a roll call, please? Yes, your honor. Council member Gerson, present. Council member Kajji, present. Council member Colani, present. Council member Lewis, present. Council member Matui, here. Council member Shake present. Mayor Chun

present. The council will now recess to close session to confer with the city manager and city attorney on agenda matters listed under 13A real property conference with real property negotiator 13B conference with legal counsel existing litigation and 13 C conference with labor negotiator. A close session on these matters is authorized by California Government Code section 549-56.8 54956.9D1 549 57.6. We will return after close session. Thank you. clear. Hey Hey. Hey. Hey.

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Good evening. We'll reconvene our city council meeting. It is now 6:38. I welcome everyone joining us in the council chamber as well as those watching remotely. We have been in close session. City Manager, do we have any actions to report out? Good evening, your honor. No actions to report. Thank you.

Okay, moving on to flight salute and invocation. We honor those who make it possible for us to be here today. If there is anyone here in the audience who is on active duty or a military veteran, will you please stand or raise your hand so that we may recognize you? Please remain standing and all arise and Councilwoman Khalani will lead us in the flag salute and Councilman Matuchi in the invocation.

Please join me as we honor our flag and country. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Dear Lord, uh thank you once again for giving us the opportunity to uh gather here today to discuss some of the city's most pressing issues. Uh may our decisions tonight reflect the will of the people. I know we're going through a lot of issues around the world and uh we pray for those that are in harm's way. We pray for peace everywhere, especially in the Middle East. And we pray that our our fine uh soldiers all come home safe. Amen. Thank you. Moving on to item three, announcements of withdrawn, deferred or supplemental items.

Thank you, honor party and city manager. We are uh regards to item 8E, community development. The item will be deferred to a future council meeting and item ADF from community services will also be deferred to the April 21st city council meeting. There are supplemental materials available online on the city website at torancia.gov. Thank you, honor. Okay, thank you. Moving on to item four. I will take a motion to weigh further reading of resolutions and ordinances after number and title. Motion to wave further readings. Second. Start voting, please.

Your honor, that motion carried unanimously. Thank you. Moving on to item five, council committee meetings and staff announcements. City city clerk pier. Thank you, your honor. The city of Torrance is currently accepting applications for commissions and the SST committee. Commission and SST committee appointments will take place at the city council meeting on Tuesday, June 23rd. The application deadline is Thursday, May 8th by 5:00 pm. Applications are being accepted at the city clerk's counter via US mail or email to city clerk at toranca.gov. Postmarks are not accepted. Applicants must be an elector of the city of Torrance and have completed commission certification training within the last two years to be eligible for appointment. Commissioners applying for reappoint must also be current on ethics AB1234 and non-supervisory harassment prevention training. For more information, please visit torrenca.gov/government back/commissions or call the office of the city clerk at 3106182870. My next announcement, your honor, is about our election. Become an informed voter. Attend a candidate form. forms are free and open to members of the public with the exception of the New Horizons which is limited to New Horizon residents. The next candidate form is on April 13th at 7 p.m. at Bertland Middle School at 700 p.m. for mayor and city treasure candidates. The one after that is April 20th at Altaloma Park meeting room at 700 p.m. for mayor and city treasur. Visit torranca.gov/government gov back/government backcity-clonction-in information for the schedule and remember to check your voter registration status at lav vote.gov votebymail ballots will be mailed

starting May 4th. Thank you your honor. Thank you. And the next item I'm going to introduce our social service chair Karen Prior to the podium please.

Good evening. Thank you, mayor, and good evening to city council and all you fun friends up here. Uh my name is Karen Prior and I am this uh current chair of the social services commission. The social services commission would like to encourage the community to participate in the annual toiletries and more drive from April 13th through the 24th. The toiletry drive assists people experiencing homelessness in Torrance. We welcome new and full-size donations, including sweatshirts and t-shirts, socks, shampoo and conditioner, toothpaste, body wipes, deodorant, and more. Collection bins will be available in the city hall library lobby, excuse me, the permit center, North Torrance Library, and Walteria Library. To view the complete list of requested items, please visit torrenca.gov/hel others. And if you have any questions, please call 310-618-5880 or email Social Services Commission at toranca.gov. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. Thank you. Social service commission. Let's see. Next item. Moving on to community matters. Item 6A. Tonight, the city would like to recognize an exceptional individual who embodies a spirit of community service, Ron Kimmel. For more than 20 years, Ron has been a dedicated volunteers with the Friends of Torrance Library, contributing his time and expertise to enhance our local library system. As a long-standing board member, Ron took on the challenging role of treasurer for over a decade, where he managed complex financial responsibilities with diligence and integrity. His tenure on the executive board was marked by a significant achievement, including development of organizational bylaws and a memorandum of understanding with the Torrance Public Library, laying a strong foundation for the friends. In addition to his board duties, Ron played a pivotal role in establishing the FOTL or Friends online bookstore, diligently shipping book orders three times a week for 10 years. He also designed and implemented an efficient system for book sales at the library, carefully managing everything from table layouts to inventory. Throughout his time with the friends, Ron has mentored countless volunteers, equipping them with essential skills, whether training future treasurers, guiding internet sales processes, or sorting and evaluating incoming book donations. His dedication has empowered others to carry on the mission of the friends. Under Ron stewardship, the friends of Torrance Library has

contributed over a million dollars to the Torrance public library. a testament to his commitment and a profound benefit to our entire community. Please join me in a round of applause for Ron and his remarkable service and lasting impact on Torrance. And now I'd like to invite Mr. Kimmel and members of the friends of Torrance Library to join me at the podium for a photo and I will give a certificate to him as well. And I think you know tonight let's maybe you know let's I'm going to ask my colleagues to please join us. I know it might be a little crowded so we might have to be in the second deck just to honor uh his service. Before we all come up, I'm going to ask if Mr. Kimmel wants to share a few words. So maybe just stay right there. That's okay. I know I I jumped the gun a little bit. Sorry about that. Mr. Kimmel, you have a few words to share with us.

Yes. Want to I want to thank you for for this uh this honor and thank all the friends and other volunteers for being here tonight and my family in the back and in the front. I also want to mention that uh I spent a few years volunteering with the uh sister city association but I found that being treasurer of both organizations at the same time was a little bit too much. So I con concentrated on the uh the friends and thank you again. All right. Do you do you want to gather around left and right at him and Ted, you want to join us as well.

It's okay. Are you okay? come to the next.

All right. Thank you. Congratulations. All right. Thank you, Mr. Kimmel and the friends. Right. Tonight we'll go to 8B. Tonight we recognize April as DMV donate life month. This is the time to honor selfless donors and their families who have given the gift of life and to encourage our community to register as organ eye and tissue donors. We are proud to partner with DMV and one legacy to spread this message of hope. I would like to invite my colleagues on the city council to help me read the proclamation starting from my right hand. Following the reading, I'd like to invite Tammy Restnack to join us at the podium to accept the proclamation.

Whereas organ, eye, tissue, marrow, and blood donations are life-giving acts recognized worldwide as expressions of compassion to those in need. And whereas more than 120,000 individuals nationwide and more than 20,000 in California are currently on the national organ transplant waiting list. And on average, 17 people die each day while waiting. The need for donated organs is especially urgent in the Hispanic, Latino, and African-American communities. And

whereas a single individual's donation of heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, pancreas, and small intestine can save up to eight lives. And donation of tissue can save and heal the lives of more than 75 others. Organ donors saved more than 46,000 lives last year. And whereas any person can register to be an organ, eye, and tissue donor regardless of age or medical conditions. Being a registered donor does not impact the quality of life-saving medical care a person receives in an emergency. And

whereas California residents can sign up with the donate live California donor registry online at any time by visiting www.donate lifecal.org or for Spanish speakers www.donvida california.org or and

whereas California residents can sign up to be an Oregon I and tition donor when applying or renewing their driver's licenses or IDs at the California Department of Motor Vehicles. California residents interested in saving a life through living kidney donation may visit www.livingdonationc california.org. Now therefore, I, George Chen, as mayor of the city of Torrance, California, do hereby proclaim the month of April 2026, as DMV donate life month in the city of Torrance. In doing so, we encourage all Californians to check yes online or when applying for or renewing their driver's license or ID card at the DMV signed the 7th day of April, 2026. So, Tammy, would you come to the podium?

Would you like to share a few words with us?

I would. Thank you so much. First, I want to thank you, Mayor Chen, and council members for recognizing uh for this proclamation and for recognizing April as DMV donate life month. Um, organ donation and transplant are very personal to me. I received a kidney from my sister and her gift gave me nearly 40 years of life um to and I'm so grateful for it. you know, I was able to do things and live my life in ways that I don't think would have been possible without it. Um, but today I h find myself on the transplant on waiting for an organ again and I'm on the transplant list. Um, so I do understand very on a person very personal level um what it means to wait and also what it means when somebody makes the decision to donate an organ. Um there are many people like me waiting for and hoping for a second chance. And um one decision truly can save lives. So I encourage everyone to learn to talk to your family and to consider registering as an organ donor, organ eye and tissue donor. Um it's a simple act that can make an incredible difference in someone's life. Thank you.

Anyone else? Anyone else want to join you up here? Uh, no. Okay. Oh, no. Okay. He's He's the photographer, too. He's the photographer. Okay. Okay.

I want to be like the man before. Jeez. Thank you again. Thank you so much.

By the way, I think uh Tammy and the group also have a very good rose parade float every year too, right?

We do. Yeah. moving on to oral communications number one. This portion of the meeting is reserved for comments on the items under the consent calendar or items that are not on the agenda. Under the Ralph M. Brown Act. City Council cannot act on items raised during public comment, but may respond briefly to statements made or questions posed, request clarification, or refer the item to staff. Speakers in the orals are limited to either oral communications number one or oral communications number two, and no longer than two minutes per speaker. Time starts when you step up to the microphone. If presenting handout material to the council, please provide 11 copies to city clerk before speaking. Handouts will be distributed while you speak. It's 659. Deputy city clerk, do we have anyone who signed up?

Yes, your honor. We have one, John H.

I have only nine copies for council, but happy to provide them. Good evening. Um, my questions tonight are for Councilman Assam Shank. Were you a defendant in a lawsuit alleging that you perpetrated financial elder abuse on your neighbor, the late John A. Fleming, a 92-year-old retired aerospace mechanic, military veteran, and longtime Torrance resident. Did you use your official positions as both city of Torrance planning commissioner and city councilman to mislead Mr. Fleming into transferring his home, his retirement savings, and his personal property to you and your family, amounting to more than $1.5 million. Upon transferring title from Mr. Fleming's family trust to yourself. How were you able to reduce the property tax payment from over 10,000 down to $1,500 per year? Did you use your personal relationship with the county tax assessor to lower the property taxes for your own personal benefit? And why are property tax bills being mailed to you at the Torrrent city hall as his caretaker? Why did Mr. Fleming die of malnutrition? Why did you order an Islamic memorial flyer and an Islamic prayer for Mr. Fleming who wanted to be buried in a Catholic cemetery with his wife? Why did you fail to disclose Mr. Fleming's health condition and his death to his daughter? Why do you use Mr. Fleming's image on your campaign website and why

did you refuse to give Mr. Fleming's American Veterans Flag to Mr. Fleming's daughter? And did you sell the family? Sir, your your time is up, sir.

Thank you for listening, sir. Well, hello. Can you hear me? Good. I received a wonderful letter from Councilwoman Lewis. Arthur, thank you for sharing your concerns. I do not support red light cameras used for automated traffic ticketing. That's simple. That was easy. Every one of you should have given me a similar letter by now. There should be no excuse. Council Mayor Chen telling me, "Well, I'm open to all proposals or possibilities." That is not acceptable. You have no right to propose anything that will violate our constitutional rights. I am aware of the California Supreme Court saying that red light cameras are acceptable. I don't care. It's the federal courts you have to pay attention to. This is about our rights. Fourth Amendment, Fifth Amendment, Sixth Amendment. There should be no red light cameras. There should be no automated ticketing. That should not even be a consideration. Every one of you, I am waiting for a response on this. The gentleman before it's another issue. Two minutes. This is still an insult. Mayor, how dare you take away our full public comment. It should be three. It was three even with Mayor Fury. And I know he didn't want to listen to me, but he listened to me for three minutes. And everyone else should have that as well. Councilman Shake, thank you for your call yesterday. 90% of your constituents want the public comment restored. Excellent. I'm glad I'm not alone in this. I keep hearing that there is a good government for on this dis. Well, why don't you put that good government energy into action and restore the public comment if the mayor won't do it. There should not be this delay. This should not have been dragged out as a campaign issue. I have spoken on this issue many times and I know I'm not the

only one. This is not acceptable. You should hear from us for three minutes. Second oral communication should be expanded if necessary for every person who's willing to stay. This needs to be fixed. You have no right to be limiting us like this, especially having done it to one minute in the past. Not acceptable. You need to change this. That gentleman, I think, clearly established it. He needed more than two. Sir, your time is up. do it. Let's get this going. Anyone else wish to speak?

Good evening, mayor, city council members. Uh once again, it's tax fraud season. Um national tax fraud season for us, the carpenters. We c come to talk about tax fraud days of action. There are billions of dollars that t through cheating contractors they don't pay their taxes. Torres has a lot of work going on in construction, a lot of housing going on, but in that rush to meet this housing. Nobody's keeping track or any accountability when it comes to these cheating contractors. They have labor brokers. They have coyotes and they bring these workers in and they do the work and they pay them cash. They mclassify them as independent contractors. And that's tax revenue that the city is getting cheated out of. The city of Torrance may be struggling with the fire department, with their schools, with uh homeless shelters, the veterans, and so forth. But when these cheating contractors don't pay or they pay them in cash, that's lost tax revenue that the city of Torrance doesn't see. So the Carpenters and United Brotherhood of Carpenters right here in Torrance and some of our men and women that live in this city are standing up to tax fraud and worker mclassification and cash pay. So we're here to let city council know, let you know, mayor, that this is a crisis level and it has to stop. And we are asking that you just pay attention and make become aware that tax fraud does exist right here in the city of Torrance and who's checking. We always hear about the city manager saying that they have things in place where uh this doesn't happen. But where's the record set? Where's the accountability at? How do we really know? All they do is come in the city. They get a permit and they say that they're building and that their contractors are reputable. But how can you tell? Have you ever even checked?

Has anyone ever even held them accountable? So, we're just asking and making that aware to hold good news. City council construction tax fraud is stealing the future of our communities, roads, first responder systems, public transit, schools, and hospitals. Billions of dollars are meant for infrastructure is lost every year because of dishonest contractors who exploit and dodge wages. This April 6th to 18th, the Western States Carpenter Union of Local 91 is taking stance against those corrupt businesses that are pocketing this money that should be in for critical infrastructure. It is time to stop tax fraud and ensure our critical community systems are built with the right way. Those lost tax dollars will go to the funds, more equipment for our first responders, more more first responders improving our roads, schools, and hospitals. When you see the dirty streets, think tax fraud. You see the dirty part in banking lots, think tax fraud. When you're driving down the street and you hit a pothole and you bounce from the driver's seat to your passenger seat, think tax fra. Thank you, city council. I think if those who want to speak, you could queue up so this way you have you could orderly have your have your time to talk too. Go ahead, sir. Thank you uh board for allowing me to talk. Uh I don't have anything scripted but something came to me that I wanted to share personal. Um I've been a carpenter for 27 years. Um and before that uh I was 26 when I became a carpenter and I spent nine years of my life in prison on two different trips. The second trip is what I want to talk about. When they released me in 21 years old and uh in 1994 they told me not to have any weapons. I was pretty dumb kid. So, I had a firearm and they called that excon with a gun. The court that I had

to go to was Torrance Court. I do thank Torrance Court now that I'm 53 with three kids in college because they didn't give me life in prison, but I had to go back and do five years. And I had to do what was called pay restitution to the city for committing that crime. I asked Torrance to be what Torrance was in 1994 with me when I committed a crime and I had to pay it and pay back and make these contractors that if I would have had to work for them getting out at 26, I wouldn't have been able to raise a family because I wouldn't have had a live livable wage and by them stealing taxes and all of that, I wouldn't have a kids that were in college and doing as good as I've been doing. So, I appreciate that Torrance gave me a second chance at life, but I ask Torrance to continue to be that diligent with people that are taken away from the community when the things they're taking could make us more productive. That's all I have.

Good evening, Mayor and uh council members. We are here to bring to your attention a recent incident at the Cherry Blossom Festival in Torrance on March 29th where an individual appeared in attire representing Imperial Japanese military forces while holding military flags. We're here on behalf of over 80 community members and 18 organizations who have signed the letter we are submitting tonight. This is not about restricting First Amendment rights. It is about the city's responsibility to ensure its cultural events remain inclusive and welcoming.

And for many in our community, including those veterans, and some of them have fought in World War II, Imperial Japanese military imagery is not talk. There's a different person speaking. Sure. Um, it's one speech though. I'll try to make it. It's okay. I'm just letting them know.

Thank you. Imperial Imperial Japanese military imagery is not a distant history. It is tied to lived experiences of war, occupation, atrocities, and survival. When it appears in a cultural festival, it can be deeply distressing and make people feel excluded. We are asking for practical steps, clear guidelines, engagement with affected communities and support from the organizers. This is an opportunity for the city to lead to affirm respect, inclusion, and historical awareness in our public spaces. Thank you.

Okay. Hi everyone. My name is Erikica Winston. I am the prevention coordinator with Behavioral Health Services. We're located at 1334 Post Avenue, right next door to Eat at Rudy's behind Torren's Bakery. We just wanted to invite the community out for this upcoming DEA the DEA National RX Takeback Day. It's happening Saturday, April 25th um from 10 to 12, I mean 10 to 2 p.m. at Sounds Club on Sky Park. And we are doing it in partnership with uh the Torrance P PD and also Fox Drugs of Torrance. So, it's a time for the community to come out, drop off any expired unused medications for safe disposal. So, um everyone's free to join us. Uh we will be back out October for the second round this year. So hopefully everybody can come out again. It's April 25th from 10 to 2 p.m. at Sam's Club at Sky Park on Sky Park. Thank you. Good evening everyone. Um I'm here to speak on something that's on the consent calendar, agenda 8E. Um, and this really is just to congratulate and thank our community development department for seeking funding um for the multi-use active transit trail project from the regional transit center that'll connect the regional transit center to downtown Torrance. Now, I'm excited for all of the development that's happening in the city. And all of that development, of course, means more people in the city and more cars on the road. Projects like this transit trail give people like me a safe way to opt out of my car and vehicle and either walk or ride my bike from our transit center to the growing bustling hub that is downtown Torrance. Um, and I'm especially excited for this given all of these sporting events that are coming to our city. Anyway, uh, that's all. Just wanted to say thank you for embarking on this project and moving it along. I'm excited for all of the public engagement that'll come through hopefully over the next year. Thanks.

I think you might have missed the announcement. That item was not on tonight. It's going to get pushed on to another week. Just so you know. Go ahead.

Good evening, uh, mayor, city council, staff, uh, fire, and police, and those at home. Uh, my property has an alleyway where the trash cans and recycling bins are located. And one day I noticed that the uh truck was dumping uh empty cans and lifting them and dumping them for no reason. It's just wear and tear on the equipment and it uses up extra time. Here is a example of a trash bin. Uh imagine that it's full of trash. Bang. Clack clack. You see the red flag? The red flag is out. And that means do not pick up this trash can. It's empty. Now, when the resident comes out, push their trash in. When it's full enough, they put the red flag in. This means pick up this trash can. It's ready to dump. Now, if you should choose to use this idea, you you don't have to pay me anything, but I will accept uh gift certificates. Thank you for your time. I think you're going to get one there in Veterans Day celebration.

Yeah. City Council, I like to like the gentleman that went first before me about the minutes we have up here. I think we should have at least if you guys can't give us two minutes, at least give us a minute and a half. I mean, it's election year. Think about it. You know, we should get a little bit longer at the podium to say what we got to say. Uh the other thing is the city's growing too fast. You guys got a lot of building going around. Anza Avenue should you should know that and you should know that that it's like a freeway on that thing. Lameita is a freeway. Torrance is just building up too much. There's too much going on. We don't need it. We don't need to be built up like LA. I mean, ASA is just a freeway. It's just one dog on freeway. Torren Boulevard, Sapota, it's a freeway. You guys are making it just too busy here. You're making it where we don't want to live. My personal opinion, most likely when you guys retire, you're out of here. You guys are moving out of state. I don't think any one of you going to stay here. And the other thing that I think about is that you guys said we're supposed to have eight trolleys and they were put in for repairs. Where are they now? We don't have any. I mean, I'm still waiting to see the trolleys come. You guys made a big deal about it. I went down to the bus stop and asked them, they don't have anything on their computer saying when they're coming back. So, that's the problem you guys have to look at. It's when they're coming back. It is an election year. You guys going to get reelected. Better think about it. Think about a lot of things about Torrance that you guys are not thinking about. simple things that people in Torrance worry about. Think about another thing is when we have the parade, uh the courthouse parking lot and the parking lot right out here should be open for handicapped senior citizens. You guys have been closing it. Never used to be closed before. Thank you.

That done with time with time to spare. Anyone else want who wish to speak? city attorney, I think there were some comments made uh with respect to the Columbia Park and the Cherry Blossom. Uh I'm just going to ask you to uh you know share with the public on the situation, but we we know we heard you. So, I just want to make sure that uh we give the city attorney opportunity to share uh where the city's position is. Uh Patrick Solomon, city attorney. Um the cherry blossom uh festival is an event that the city holds at Columbia Park. Uh parks are traditional public forums. Uh the gentleman who was dressed in the military uniform and displaying the flags was not part of the official ceremony or um any of the performers. Um he is just a member of the public. Um since it is a traditional public forum, uh the the what he did is considered free speech or expressive conduct. the city cannot restrict that. Um the city can look at um performing a expressive conduct zone in the park. Um the problem is unlike the farmers market where it's very clear what's expressive conduct and what is not. Uh the booths are for farmers or people who are food vendors in Columbia Park is not as clear. Um, so that's something we can look at, but there can be no guidelines or restrictions or bans um on military uniforms um or uh flags um even if they're offensive. Um offensive speech is protected speech. Uh there are numerous cases on this in the Supreme Court. Uh there's a case of column versus Smith uh back in the 70s uh where a neo-Nazi group wanted to walk and march through a village in Skoi, Illinois wearing Nazi

uniforms holding swastika flags and the Supreme Court said that was protected. Um same thing in Texas versus Johnson. Uh the burning of American flags, which is deeply offensive to many people, uh is considered protective symbolic speech. And um there's a new case uh out of the copyright administration. I don't have it in front of me right now. Um that says that um essentially offensive speech is protected speech. And in that case it was a uh Asian-American band called the slants uh which is a derogatory term uh for Asian people um that wanted to trademark their name. And there is a disparagement clause in the trademark law that says you cannot grant a trademark for something that disparages a person or a race. And the US Supreme Court said that violates free speech because speech that is offensive or disturbing is protected. So, um although the the group says they're not trying to restrict free speech by asking for any guidelines or discouraging um people from wearing those kinds of uh uniforms, that would be a violation of free speech and put the city uh in in liability for that violation. If you also look at um city councils around LA County, um there is a gentleman who shows up uh to the LA city council regularly wearing a swastika and that is allowed. Um there is another gentleman who has gone to the Pasadena city council uh holding up swastika as symbols while speaking to their city council which has I think two Jewish council members. Um he even had I think another sign that said Hitler was right and as offensive as those statements are to many people um it is protected speech. So there is um unfortunately as far as the uniform does nothing we cannot ban it. We cannot discourage it. Um, like I said, the city is willing to look at um setting up an expressive conduct zone, but it becomes

a little more difficult in a cultural affair of what booth would be expressive conduct speech. That would have to go to an expressive zone versus what would be allowed in the other booth zones, but the city is willing to look into those sort of things. But the ban of uniforms or symbols is not allowed.

Thank you. um you know we appreciate uh you speaking up to us and when I think uh as we prepare for next year's cherry blossom festival we have a lot of cultural festivals cherry blossom just one of them we have bunkasai we have other things and uh we'll look at what you know what things we could improve on so that everyone has an enjoyable experience u thank you uh city attorney Sullivan any anyone else who wish to speak. I see you clicked in. I just want to give the public make sure they have a chance. Councilman Shay, do you want to You clicked in. Did you want to share something?

Yes, please. Uh, first of all, a lot of uh uh things were thrown at me, so I just wrote something quickly just to address some of the things that uh there were said to me. Uh first of all I know that my opponent and the five people who have endorsed him they know very well that they cannot win this election based on merit and based on facts. So now what they're doing is basically resorting to an ugly ugly and spearing campaign against me. I want to emphasize they know they cannot win this election based on the facts, based on merits. My opponent's campaign is working with someone who attempted elder financial exploitation to obtain my former neighbor's home. This is considered elder abuse under California law. And because I gave aid and comfort to my neighbor, which helped prevent him from losing his home, this individual is seeking revenge against me for thwarting that individual's plan. This is the kind of person my opponent is working with. My opponent's campaign has made repeated acquisitions and complaints to public agencies to harass my campaign and cause unneeded expenses. None of those agencies have offered any

validity to these repeated acquisitions which have been going on for literally four or five months. This kind of politics has no place in Torrance elections and I call upon my opponent join me in following the Torrance code of ethics which calls upon candidates to avoid demeaning or irrelevant personal attacks. Never try to confuse or mislead the waters and conduct an issue oriented, honest, fair and respectful campaign. My neighbors had a trust and everything on the trust was written according to his instruction by his attorney. I had nothing to do whatever he wanted to do uh before his burial. His burial was performed exactly the way he instructed to his attorney and the burial place. That has nothing to do with me. I did not have my faith flag. I did not add or delete anything from the instructions given by him to his attorney when he was alive. And his attorney is the one who conducted everything based on the will of my neighbor. And again, I'm going to repeat that my opponent and the five people that endorse him know they cannot win this elections based on merits and facts. And

that is the truth. That's what making my opponent to make this allegations on me. And I try my best to in fact I don't have to try my best. It will be definitely come clear. My hands are completely clear. And I want to thank whoever brought this up and I don't know why they didn't stay for let me say my words and again this is a smear campaign and Torrance does not allow that kind of thing in our city and all the policies that this person has my opponent and the unnecessary expenses that will be sent to everybody who's involved and at the end of the day they have to they will get the love letter ladder to address that as well. Well, thank you again. Appreciate it. At this moment, there's still a few minutes left for the public comments. I believe everyone who spoke today had sufficient time to get their points across before they start repeating themselves. Just want to make sure I allowed you some time. Anyone else who didn't come up? Okay, we will move on to the consent calendar. Do any members wish to pull any items from the consent calendar? I will be pulling item 8 D as in delta. Any of my colleagues want to pull any other items from the consent calendar? Councilwoman Oh, you're about to do the motion. Okay. I thought you just clicked in.

Motion to approve the consent calendar in its entirety with the exception of 8D which has been pulled and 8 and F8F that have been withdrawn and deferred. And before we do a vote second. Yeah. City clerk, may I have a number and titles for items 8 I and 8K, please? Or deputy city clerk?

Yes, your honor. This is resolution number 2026-29. A resolution of the city council of the city of Torrance, California, authorizing and directing the mayor to execute and the city clerk to attest to a public rightway license agreement with Torrance Blackbeut LLC for the installation of security fencing and landscaping within portion of the Prairie Avenue rightway adjacent to APN's 7352-015-005 and 7352- 015- 006. Resolution number 2026-30, a resolution of the city council of the city of Torrance, California, authorizing and directing the mayor to execute and the city clerk to attest to grant of easement to Torrance Blackbe LLC for driveway apron and incillary improvements for a portion of city-owned property located at Dlama Boulevard and Maple Avenue, APN735215-900. Resolution number 2026-31, a resolution of the city council of the city of Torrance, California, setting forth the hours, wages, and working conditions for certain full-time, salaried, and hourly employees beginning February 21st, 2026, and repealing resolution number 2026-21. And lastly, resolution number 2026-32, a resolution of the city council of the city of Torrance, California, amending resolution number 2026-9, setting forth hours, wages, and working conditions for executive and management employees.

Thank you. And adopt resolutions 2026 29, 202630, 2026 331, and 202632. Start voting, please. Your honor, that motion can carried unanimously. Thank you. So, item 8 D from the uh city manager's office. Do we have a staff report?

Thank you, mayor. Uh mayor, members of the city council, Carl Wear, our management associate of the city manager's office. Uh tonight's item is a joint item with both the city manager's office and community services department. Uh before we get started with the presentation that will be presented by um um I can representative um just a short script to introduce our social services commission. Uh we want to thank take this opportunity to also thank the social service commission uh for holding a space for the community to share their needs and how the city can better serve our residents uh and how we can better uh provide uh services to meet the needs uh for individuals with developmental disabilities through their continue advis advisory recommendations through this commission um which was kind of the seed of us getting into this agreement with IAN. This represents a small way that the city can support a more and caring, thriving community. Um, tonight I do want to um introduce or uh have her join us uh the chair of the social services commission uh Karen Prior.

Well, hey there. Um part of the um outlook of the social services commission is to work with uh adults with developmental disabilities. And so I think that this partnership with IAN is just incredible. And I for one will be first in line for the coffee and all the other snacks that are going to be available. So I really commend the city for allowing this to be done and uh I just can't wait. So thank you. Before bring we bring uh Scott Elliott, CEO of I can I just want to give a brief overview of tonight's agreement that we're asking council to approve tonight. Uh so this is a one-year pilot program that would begin as of today. Um, and it would be a one-year pilot program uh where I will be uh installing a mobile coffee cart in the library plaza here at the civic center uh operating a coffee shop uh with limited uh hours of service. Uh with the agreement uh we do have compensation built in. It's net 15% of sales. Uh this allows I can and the city uh with the pilot program to see in terms of market conditions if this is something that can be sustained with the community. We're hoping that this does this does save us a couple drive trips to your nearest coffee shop like Starbucks. So having something close by uh for caffeine. Uh we're very excited for this venture with IAN. Um Ian has been a great nonprofit partner with the city before. Uh just something personal when I was in the community development department. I had the privilege of working with Scott um on their IAN headquarters on Sapolar Boulevard and they do great amount of work for the community and their clients. Um so with that I would like to introduce Scott Elliot with IAN. We want to thank the city and also the planning commission for helping us to

move along uh in an idea that was born from John the Rock. He and I every weekend were at the uh summer concerts and summer movies in the park and he said, "You know, the librarian wants us to have coffee and food inside the library to help bring back uh patrons to the library postco. Is this something that we could talk about?" And so that was actually the cart that we built to go inside the library. and it meandered down the path a bit and then it was determined it would be better fit to be outside so it can serve uh the larger city staff community and not just library patrons inside the library in the limited scope of hours and so uh if you uh go to the next slide you'll start to see uh where we migrated from that to a much larger cart but I is a nonprofit that empowers people with disabilities we serve over 700 families uh per month uh across our our locations from the 105 to the 605 freeway and it's an honor to be part of the city of Torrance. We moved our headquarters to Torrance. We got involved with the chamber and not only being involved with Torrance has born this project, but we are in uh contract negotiations with Harbor UCLA hospital to have two copy shops on their property as well uh through our Torrance relationship. Uh you can go ahead and go to the next slide. Uh I want to get all the You can keep going all the way till you see the There we go. So this is the trailer that uh we worked in conjunction with city management to design to be outside um and would be uh safer but can lock up at night and self- sustaining from a power standpoint being inside the library uh created some challenges from that regard. Uh from the advice from the planning commission, we switched to not only having batteries with a uh gas generator backup, but to have batteries with a battery backup and solar. We had

solar before, but with a gas generator backup. And now we have two sets of batteries plus solar. So, I'm hoping that uh will be a sustainable solution, but also from a noise standpoint uh be quiet for uh those inside the library and outside. Um, uh, this trailer will, uh, be somewhat like, uh, a copy shop, uh, on location for the city staff and library patrons. We do hope it brings more patrons back to the libraries. You know, uh, I grew up being able to go to the library and enjoy books and hang out there in the summertimes and, uh, we're hoping that kids come back, that we have really fun hot chocolates and fun drinks that they can drink. And, uh, the library staff was excited about bringing food back into the library. uh and they had experienced it in other cities of having that and I've seen you know bookstores bring coffee shops inside of their bookstores and it to be a successful way to bring people inside those bookstores. So um let's see go ahead and go to the next you can keep going slides I'll talk through each one. Uh this was also a partnership between Calpali uh Da Vinci High School and Ian. So uh Da Vinci High School was looking for a nonprofit partner who uh ultimately could afford to build said thing and uh uh they were referred to us from uh uh the architect on the project from Calpali that they felt that uh I was the type of nonprofit that would believe in what the kids can do. And so the students from Da Vinci built everything uh that you see um in terms of the structure and then it was sent to a um a food truck vendor that does all the health department outfitting to ensure it's compliant with all the California codes. Next slide. Uh that's just kind of what a rendering that we did when we were getting it approved from the city. You can go to the next slide which is the exact location. So the exact location is right there. Uh we are going to use a uh

specialized trailer to kind of wedge it into that spot so it fits nice and tightly up against that uh concrete pad which will allow it to uh be away from road noise and which is great for patrons but also uh good for our clients who will be working it every day. Um uh as previously mentioned right the streets are pretty busy and so they do add road noise. So being back about 40 50 feet uh is is a good option. Go ahead. Um uh we we will uh the hours uh suggested this was a area of discussion at the planning commission, but it is believed that there are city staff that do start at 7 a.m. And so therefore uh us being open at 7 a.m. uh affords those staff to get a cup of coffee just like anyone else. It's also uh great for our clients to work uh morning shifts because if they work in retail like grocery stores or Costco, they will have to work uh morning shifts. So, it's good for them to have that practice. Um all clients at I can are paid in in every capacity. Um our mantra when we first started as an organization was real jobs for real pay when the culture in our field was uh subminimum wage work. We were the only agency at that time that did uh minimum wage or above every single time and we've never deviated from that. And I think that is the mantra that's helped us to grow from zero clients in in 11 years to over 700 clients. Uh was specifically that the parents um share the word that we exist and that we only fight for real jobs. So yeah, everything that's served uh will be served there as well. We have two turboch ovens. So that way we have redundancy uh and also for busy moments we would have that redundancy as well. Uh your decision to support a project like this not only you know supports a local nonprofit and gains visibility for a nonprofit in your

community but people with special needs want to be seen and heard and want to be productive members of our society. And so this is a way for them to feel like they are giving back to their city as well. Um a significant percentage of our client base comes from Torrance and that's why we moved our central operations to Torrance because uh a good majority of our clients live in this city base and so it's it's been a good opportunity for us. Uh we were we opened uh in 2020 well not really um uh at that location. Uh Danny and the team helped us but we really opened about 20 late 2021 and we were full within a month uh to complete capacity and so we are looking for another facility in the city of Torrance to continue to work with Harbor Regional Center who is our funer. So thank you so much for your time. If you have any questions I'm honored to answer them. Uh but uh thankful for this uh uh proposal making it to this point.

Thank you, Scott. I think uh we already gave the community opportunity to speak on consent items, so I'm going to go to the city council. Council Matui has clicked in. You might want to just hang around in case he has a question for you. Council Matui,

thank you. Thank you, mayor. And uh yeah, thank you for this such a great idea. I love coffee, so I'll be there. Uh, one question I have is, uh, we're closed off Fridays. Uh, so I think it would be kind of dead. Uh, some of the Fridays, two of the Fridays, is it two or sometimes even three Fridays a month? Uh, depending on the month, we might be closed. We're closed the city. Uh, also Saturdays typically we're not here. But I mean, is this mainly to service the um library uh on those days? uh the city staff assigned me those hours. So, okay. Uh we are just we accepted the the suggested uh the library is open on Saturday and then I believe the pool is open on Saturday and uh sometimes there can be city events. Yeah. Events on property. Uh uh your honor, Danny Santana, city manager's office. Uh Mr. Elliott is correct. There are is other city programming other than the 980 staff uh including our police department, the activity at the cultural arts center, the plunge as Mr. Elliot indicated as well as the library. So uh the opportunity uh that is presented as a part of this one-year um exploration period is so that I can can adjust their hours based on customer demand and then collaborate with staff on how those hours can be further adjusted which the terms of the agreement allow the city manager to help adjust um so that they can be successful and uh the city retains a wonderful asset.

Yeah. Yeah. And uh by the way, you guys did a great job over there on Sabula, the beautiful building and uh beats the heck out of a car wash that was supposed to be there. Yeah, that really helped us uh in our proposal that we weren't the car wash. All the neighbors came to our grand opening and thanked us for not being a car wash, so that was really nice. No, but you guys did a just a great work that you guys do for the community, but it also looks nice, too. Oh, thank you. Yeah, we really worked hard on that.

Yeah, good job on everything. Thank you. Any other comments or questions from the council? I don't see any. So, uh, I think you have we have we have Councilwoman Lewis ready to move for motion. In in exciting anticipation of what's to come, because we were we were uh able to see some of your clients, um, I make a motion that we approve item 8 D. with tea. Second that excitement. Yeah, she's going to teach me. I think they're going to make teach me how to make good tea before we open.

Start voting, please. Your honor, that motion carried unanimously. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Congratulations, Scott. And I can

Okay, I got too excited. I forgot we still got to move on. Let's see. There are no public hearings tonight. So, for those of you who came for the council meeting today, um this pretty much ends the public session. Before we are going to go back to close session, but before we do that, I'm going to go on to have oral communications number two while the public is still here. So if there are anyone in the uh public in the chambers tonight who did not speak during oral communications number one and would you speak you wish to speak now please step up to the microphone you will have two minutes per speaker if you have not spoken during oral communications number one

question we serve coffee at the fiesta hosa quite often and they have a free speech zone. Um, and they have uh an area dedicated for that. Um, just wondering if that can be uh an area for the the the women that had questions earlier if that can be something that can be a mitigated area where there's a free speech zone versus just the whole event being open for um interpretation of where is appropriate and not appropriate. Um, I know that I've seen it at Fiesta Hamosa and it it seemed to be effective when they have it like that, but I'm not certain if that's uh for all types of events like this.

That's one of the things I'd mentioned in the thing of the free speech zone. The difficulty here is it's in a public park. So, that makes it a traditional public forum, which makes it a much more difficult situation uh than it would be in a uh a festival that's held elsewhere. So, that's the main issue there. But it is, like I said earlier, it is something the city is willing to look at. It's just difficult to differentiate between the booths at the cherry blossom festival that are advocating for other Asian or Japanese related things and this gentleman uh who is advocating I'm not sure what with his military style uniform.

Appreciate the comment. I mean this just for the public we we heard all the concerns and uh we we'll take all the concerns and see how we can make our all our events uh a very good experience for all who participate. Anyone else wish to speak in oral communications number two? If not, I'm going to have the council members to do early communic case numbers, too, because when we come back, I'm going to assume all of you won't be here tonight. The order starts with Councilman Matui. I have nothing. Mayor K. Councilman Shake.

Uh, no, nothing. Thanks, Councilman Gerson. No comments. Thank you. Councilman Kaji, have a great evening. Councilwoman Khalani, good evening. Councilwoman Lewis.

Good evening, everyone. And I want to wish my uh beautiful sister-in-law, Rochelle Clark, a happy birthday. Great. And uh for those of you uh who's been here, we thank you for your participation. I know it's a little unusual that there is no administrative matters, but uh rest assure we are going back to close session to take care of city business on your behalf. Uh thank you and good night for those of you who are who will be leaving and we're going back to close session at 7:46. Heat. Heat. Ah,

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Okay, we've been in close session. City manager, do we have anything to report out? Nothing to report, your honor. Thank you. Okay, I think Councilman Tucha, you clicked in. You got to go back.

Yeah, I gota I gotta go back. Uh, yeah. I wanted to uh bring something up that I think we might uh want to consider uh for concurrence. Uh I really do think that any leases that we commit to, especially uh long-term ground leases, at the time of signing these leases, uh the city should uh be within, I'd say, at least the top 90% of the market value. Uh, and I think that's should be something that's in our code. Uh, so I don't know, maybe I might defer quick to our our uh our city attorney if that's something that uh would be uh embedded into the code of the city.

Um, I've not seen that before. I would I'd have to do some research in other uh because it's not in our code. I can do some research in some other codes. um you would obviously be hamstringing your future councils for negotiation tactics, but I mean I can look at other chart other codes and see what's out there. Yeah. I mean the idea is to protect future councils from you know giving giving up the farm uh so that you know we kind of kind of be uh mindful of what the market values are at the time that we sign those leases. I I would be happy to do some research on it and see if I can find Well, I I'll ask for concurrence to so that you don't have to waste time. But let me ask you a question though. Yes, sir.

Don't we what do we do now? I mean, we just can't just blindly do our due diligence. It's hard to imagine that we just go ahead and say, "Okay, let's just do without any survey or anything." I I it's hard to believe we don't do that.

U mayor and council Danny Santana, city manager's office. Uh staff does complete a uh property analysis uh at times using external vendors to provide us property valuation information. Uh but the council can uh account for a multitude of factors including employment uh initial property investment uh carrying costs. Uh so um property valuation is one very important factor but it is not the only factor. Uh and currently council accounts for all of those factors in providing staff direction on a negotiation basis. I I really do think we need to take better steps to protecting ourselves from what we're seeing now in our in our portfolio, which is extremely low returns on multi-million dollar investments. So that's that's why I do think at some point there's going to be a council and staff that couldn't give two rats ass about the return on their investment. All they're caring about and I'm just saying this is hypothetical, right? You could get a council and staff eventually that doesn't really care about what the market values are, the returns on the investment. we might get a council that has no idea what a commercial lease even looks like and staff that you know might be uh uh less experienced. So that's why I do think we should at least talk about ways that we can safeguard you know I mean we have what is it 1.5 billion worth of real estate something like that that the city of Torrance owns. That's not, you know, that's not something that I mean, just that alone, you know, uh, we need to have experts involved in every future ne negotiation

and I know we do that now. I'm just looking at about 20 years down the road might be a little different. So I think it should be really in the DNA of the city that we have a system in place that have safeguards in place that that we don't just you know oh Mr. Buddy A is going to get a good deal on the lease because you know four people on the council are are his or her buddy you know we want to safeguard those uh those types of transactions from happening.

Council Tucci I think I hear what you're uh what you're heading down. I have an idea which um you know I think your intentions are are good and sometimes you know we use the phrase election has its consequences on who we who the people both in and uh that's just the way this is played. But maybe um our finance and government uh committee um be something that at least look at some options we do and which which is a best path forward to address a concern like this because you know I mean this u you know we got here today based on our experience on deliberating and trying to you know discuss different issues with land use. Um, but you could say that we're fortunate we have people who has experience in the council in this area quite a bit and like you're saying we we someday in the future we may not but but we do have a you know we have a staff who works uh the pipeline to help uh the elected officials. My suggestion may right now might be the something uh we could put on an agenda item for the finance and government. You you know the committee that I can council maji you're the chair on that one that the name of that one it's an idea that's discuss discuss that through there and see

well at least to start the conversation and look at options and there might be some cities that have those safeguards in place.

Yeah. Uh, I'm just, you know, looking at what we have now, it's it's it's irritating and upsetting to to see that so many people got very very rich off of Torrance taxpayers money because all that land was bought by Torrance taxpayers. And there's people driving around in very, very fancy cars because, you know, we wrote leases, ground leases that were so cheap. I'm sure they were really cheap to begin with and they continue to be cheap over and over and over again. We're talking about, you know, 50 60 70 years worth of making just a crapload of money off the taxpayers of Torrance. So that that's why I I think we really do need to consider putting some safeguards in place, you know, for the future for the future. So that, you know, little buddy can't come in and say, "Hey, you got that piece of land. Why don't you, you know, write a very cheap uh lease for me, ground lease for 99 years?" We're allowed to do 99 years. And um that's just not fair for the for the public. I really do think we need to be uh we need to do better. We need to do better and make sure that what what I've been seeing lately uh or actually lately over the last eight years is very underperforming assets of the city over and over and over again. And granted there were, you know, at the time that they were built, there was a risk factor. That risk factor is gone now. And I really do think we need to start catching up.

All right. So, okay. Um, Councilman Gerson, you clicked in. Are you ready? Yes, Mayor. Okay.

Uh, there's a few different trains of thought. The first is the biggest problem, and it it goes back to the same thing that we see with federal and state legislators. When you make blanket policies and an overreach and don't flesh out the issues with your thoughts, we don't know what was being written into um a lease in the 1960s because we don't know what that mindset was and we don't know what in 2016 2060 the mindset of the council is going to be. And staff always lets policy makers off the hook with the unintended consequences. You know, oh, it was an unintended consequence. And I think a lot of policy makers have unintended consequences because they don't take the time to actually think. So, we have an issue. We all agree, the seven of us agree on this issue. And that comes to the second problem is we don't have sufficient time for conversation amongst the seven of us to deal with what was the cause of the issue. What or what do we want to do about the issue? How do we want to resolve it? Like when it comes to to leasing and and similar policies, it's a seven of it's usually seven of us agreeing. Um we're all moving in the same direction. We all come from different points of view. the teacher, the law enforcement, the the real estate people, we all come to the same conclusion. And at the the sentiment of it is that all of us agree that um where we are today is not where we want to be. And we're all making adjustments with an amazing city staff that um that is doing research um and and bringing forward information so that we can make informed decisions.

And so I don't want to see us rush into policy conversations and and policy decisions because of that unintended consequence that will happen to a future council and what they will have to face decades from now. And so we have to be careful when we make blanket statements like we're just going to do 90% or whatever that magic number is. Um, if anything, my ask would be, um, is making sure and and as the mayor has added, an extra close session day for us, which I appreciate because it gives us more time to have these conversations in close session and for us to be able to just like we did tonight with staff, whereas we spoke with one voice saying, "No, this is the direction we want you to now take." And and I think it's wellreceived. Um, and I think that that it it is different just as I've sat down with a couple of people and said, "Look, you know, what what you're hearing it it's not personal. Um, it it's just that this council takes very seriously um what we do with our portfolio and making sure that the citizens of Torrance get a fair return on their land. And we're all seven agreed on that. And I I want to keep making sure that we have time to talk, that we continue to have time to strategize together as a seven. Um not as a three. Um because when we're together, we do good work when we take the time to come to a consensus just like we did tonight. And I want to see more more consensus building because I I think we do good work together when we get there. Thank you.

Okay. Um I I think we're the staff staff is looking for some direct some clear direction. I think my suggestion was uh have that discussion at the finance committee and then after that we get the whole seven of us to uh to think about it if if that would you know yeah I mean fulfilled I'm not I'm not talking specifics I'm talking about examples of specifics that could be understand that may I suggest entrepreneur city manager

staff could conduct some research on be best practices and other cities how they manage their portfolio. We can bring those findings to the finance and government operations committee. At that point the committee can decide if you want to give us for the direction to put perhaps develop a land use land management policy right which will be subject to future councils making those adjustments or buildings in some guard rails or expectations of how we manage our portfolio. So we we allow us to do some preliminary research and then we can share that data with the finance and government operations committee and via v can come back to the council for direction

and it could be vague enough to where you have flexibility but stringent enough to where there can't be corruption you know I mean the idea is to really just safeguard our investments I mean and and try to get the best return possible I just I've seen it. Obviously, it's on paper. There's problems that were created long, long time ago, and I just don't want to be part of that council that did nothing to try to steer the ship in the right direction. That's all. Almost sounds like a League of California cities. I don't No, I think that's a good idea, Ron. Yeah. Okay. I mean, do we need do we need thumbs up, thumbs down for that? Um,

I think

Oh, Councilman Kaji. Um, I appreciate um everyone's comments on this. Um, I think that we it's best that Yeah. when we all move in unison like we did tonight. Um, I'm glad that we're members of the International uh Council Shopping Centers. U I'm glad that we can pull information through National League of Cities or League of California Cities. There's a lot of different databases that are available to to the staff. Uh but I I do uh support Council Member Matuchi's uh suggestion that I think we can spend we should spend considerable time thinking of what safeguards we can put in place to ensure that what we're experiencing now uh doesn't repeat itself again. uh because as custodians of the people's land and assets uh they that requires us to ensure that they're protected that they generate um sufficient revenue to cover all the services that our residents require. So, um, should this move forward working with staff and if it comes to the finance and government operations committee, then we can move it up to the full council for review. So, that that might be,

you know, a a good avenue to use. Okay. I'd support that. So, is that clear? Yeah, I would say staff, go ahead and do your investigation. We'll use it as a part of the upcoming budget process. we can incorporate that at least initial discussion to build it into our board plan for next year.

Okay. Do we have concurrent with that? I I wasn't sure because some a lot of times staff want to make sure but you know we'll just we'll just I Okay. I wasn't sure. Okay. That's a 70. Just want to make sure. I know sometimes it's hard it's not clear. All right. At this moment, uh, we'll conclude tonight's meeting. I'll take motions and adjourn tonight's meeting. I move that we adjourn tonight's city council meeting to Tuesday, April 14th, 2026 at 5:00 p.m. for close session in the Leroy J. Jackson Council Chamber.

Second. Start voting, please. Your your honor, that motion passed with Council Member Shake voting no. At least he's consistent. But as I always say, Councilman Shake can stay tonight. Bring your sleeping bag. Good night, everyone. It's 9:14. Okay.