County Council - Regular Meeting

Welcome to the meeting of the Committee on Fraud, Waste and Abuse. It's the first of September. It's about 5 p.m. And we are here in the classrooms of the County of Tuila. I think we should first sit down and see who is present. I see that Scott Bryan, the Procurator of the County, is present. Alison McCoy of the Office of the Reviser. Oh, Councilor Hamner. Councilor Wardle. And our County Administrator, Andy Welt, are here. Before we start discussing these two ads that we have, I think we should quickly review the procedure to be followed. Our purpose is to examine and filter these ads in the sense of our chapter, of our ordinance, that is, 40284. These ads are protected documents, in the sense of the grammar, so we must be while we discuss them. If there was a need to discuss a complaint in a more explicit way, we can always present a motion to go to a closed session and discuss them in that way. The procedure provides that, first of all, we must determine for each of these complaints whether it satisfies the definition of fraud, waste or abuse. Because if it does not satisfy the definition, then we stop. If one of these definitions is satisfied, then the ordinance says that we must add it to the reviewer for the exam or report it to the legislative body of the county for the review. We can examine it, add it to the legislative body of the county for the review for further investigation. We can add it to another appropriate entity able to take care of it, or we can decide that there is nothing else to do. We have two ads, I have simply indicated them as 1 and 2 because it is the question I had. It was about those ads. I was not sure, they are numbered when they arrive through the hotline that passed from Allison's office. That numbering system will continue while we renew the system. Is it the same numbering system or will we have a different one? because I wasn't sure how we should proceed. So, the first complaint is, as it has been archived, is complaint number 2026-17. It concerns an accusation of conflict of interest by a member of the planning commission.

Therefore, before starting, I would like to propose to move to a closed session to discuss the character and professional competence of the individual in relation to the complaints presented to the Committee. And I would like to do so for both complaints. Just a second.

I support the motion. Who is in favour? I imagine that the motion is approved.

If the motion is not supported, I have a memorandum that I would like to include in the verbal. I do not believe that public seats are the appropriate place to discuss these complaints. My concern concerns both the plaintiff and the person objecting to the complaints. Furthermore, I do not believe that the Anti-Fraud Committee can properly examine the complaints if we cannot fully discuss them. So I will pass this document to the secretary so that he can add it to the verbals.

We can have a copy.

You have one with you, so we can see it first. Since I think it's part of the verb, we have to present a motion to do it.

I can add it to you right away.

It would be great. Based on this, Mr. President, today we have been given a legal opinion on such concerns, an interpretation of why it is not necessary to go to closed doors, since we must only verify if it goes back to a definition. We must not express a judgment. We must not do anything else than... Verify if the definition satisfies, let the investigative process follow the code and if it does not satisfy it, we will recommend to the council the archiving. Is this the process we should follow?

Counselor Mortal, how will we discuss this claim to determine whether it configures fraud, waste or abuse?

Well, I think we have the claim in front of us. We have the definitions of fraud, waste and abuse that have been provided to us. I think, then, that we can evaluate individually what we determine and then vote. That's what we do with all the other issues. We can put the person's name. We can leave out everything that legally, as in the interpretation provided today by the prosecutor of the Broadhead County, would violate the integrity of some investigative processes. But we can simply determine, constitutes fraud, constitutes abuse. And those definitions are quite clear in the code.

Well, I think in particular, let's talk about this first one.

First of all, it was presented in our way. So there is no individual that we must protect. According to the information presented, they were part of a meeting of the urban commission. So they are already in public domain.

Which information was presented during the meeting of the commission?

The member of the commission declared his conflict in verbal. Or where he worked, so to speak. So it's not a secret. Well, based on this, we just have to.

Here's where I find it difficult to have the discussion. So now you have just shared information from which people can deduce more. How can we continue the conversation without revealing further information?

Is there a problem with making information public? I don't know what the problem is with the information.

It could be about past complaints.

Well, I don't think all past complaints have been handled correctly. That's why we created this procedure.

Well, how do you decide which complaints to make public and which not?

I think you have to wait for the prosecutor to examine them and give us a legal opinion.

But that's not what the code says. The code says they have to arrive before us. They arrive before the selection committee.

And we can propose to file the complaint, just as you did. We vote in favor, just as we did. And the majority's decision was not to do it.

I just ask how we discuss the complaint, since we have already revealed part of the information.

Looking at the complaint, do you think it satisfies the definition of fraud, waste and abuse? Waste and abuse.

So, in our definition of fraud, waste and abuse, the abuse is One of the technical definitions concerns ethical standards. And part of the ethical standards, by law, is the obligation to disclose information.

Ok. And part of this complaint is that you could have disclosed it verbally. We have traces of the complaint in our records, where they should be archived.

If we have a place to do it, it's where the system is located.

Is it archived?

But I don't think this is the question we are facing now. I think the question is, President, if we can resume control. It is someone who would have violated the declaration of conflict of interests and continued to vote. When, according to the complaint, he would not have had to vote at all. This is what the complaint would entail.

So, regarding the definition of fraud, waste and abuse?

And for abuse, in our Code, we mean the violation of the ethical standards established by the applicable state law, by the order of the county or by the policy of the county. So, my recommendation is that yes, this meets the standard of abuse.

Okay, so he's making a motion. Yes. So I will support this with a reserve. I think that, as supported in the complaint, it is rather good, but it can be considered abuse. So, with this I support the next motion. It would be to those we do not support. This is the next question. So, all those who are in favor of the motion of the reviewer McCoy, So the second motion is, to whom should we pass it?

I propose to pass the question to the office of the prosecutor.

It is provided by our code.

I propose to pass it to the auditor, who will then pass it to the office of the prosecutor.

Yes, you keep track of the members of the council.

Let's keep track of the members.

Not of the complaints.

It would not be for the complaints.

To keep track of those who are part of the consultations is a conflict of interest.

It seems more like an investigative activity. If we ignore him, at that point he becomes an investigator. And I don't think you go back into the law.

I propose to ignore him at the auditor's office.

And the next step would be, as far as I understand, to ask Michelle to get information, since she had the majority. Yes, probably. Do you want me to color it for you? Yes. Okay, let's move on to the next one. Edwin, I'll give you this one. The right one, correct. This is the accusation that is not anonymous. We must be discreet in discussing the person, the circumstances, but the essence of the accusation is that someone was arrested, arrested, arrested and taken to prison. The accusation we must face is that the experience in its entirety was terrible. This is what we know about fraud, waste or abuse. I don't see how I can get back in. The hallway was horrible. Yes, it's all that is declared. The experience in its entirety was horrible.

I believe that in this case you are referring to the fact that it will provide further information and I think that at that point we could evaluate it if other data will arrive. However, I don't think it's the time to say that the experience was horrible, it's enough information to proceed.

As I said, I don't think it meets any of the criteria we have just discussed.

Yes, I agree. The relative definitions.

So, I hear... It's from Allison. It was a motion. So, what is the motion for? To send it back when we have more information, what is your motion, Allison?

I propose to close this complaint. I support the motion.

Who is in favor? I am in favor. So, it is not necessary to undertake any reactions at this point. I agree. Who is in favor? I am in favor. Good.