Water Quality, Streets & Infrastructure Committee - Regular Meeting

time or early i'm going to call to order the water quality committee meeting scheduled for wednesday may 13th at 4 p.m please call the roll martinez present morris comives kramer williams two present but also present are council members gaddis jones and sarantu

All right, fantastic. Well, thank you everyone for attendance. I appreciate your willingness to come at four o'clock on a Wednesday meeting. I know it's the end of the day and I appreciate everyone's willingness to come up and answer some of our questions. So the way this will work, IS WE'RE GONNA WE HAVE THREE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA UM WATER NON-PAYMENT PLAN PROCESS SO THAT WOULD BE THE WATER SHUTOFFS THEREAFTER AN UPDATE ON THE AMI METER PROJECT IN TERMS OF HOW WE'RE PROGRESSING AND THEN THE SPENT LINE CONTRACT LEGISLATION 0185-26 WITH THAT BEING SAID DIRECTOR THE FLOOR IS YOURS

Good afternoon, thank you for having us. Megan Robeson, Chief of Operations for the City of Toledo, Patika Bannister, Director of Public Works is joining me. We also have members of our Public Works team who are here in case we have additional questions that needed to be answered by more of the divisional experts. We, as Chair Martinez mentioned, are gonna go through the residential disconnection and reconnection plan, the AMI project update, as well as then the spent lime legislation that we have on the agenda. So first, for the residential disconnection reconnection plan for nonpayment, as we move towards resuming residential disconnections, it is our goal to ensure access to water while maintaining a fiscally sound utility. During our presentation today, we will review the history of the Water Affordability Task Force and water moratorium, our utility payment process, our discount programs that we have available for residents, our process for non-payment, and our approach for outreach and communications to our residents. I'm gonna turn it over to Patika to walk us through some of the presentation.

So in 2019, the Consumer Protection and Water Affordability Task Force was created to foster collaboration between the Department of Public Utilities, City Council, community organizations, and residents, whose work was instrumental in creating various initiatives under the Department of Public Utilities Consumer Assistance Program, or CAP. So you can see here on the slide a number of programs that were instituted, including monthly billing, debt forgiveness program, low-income household water assistance program, or LIWOP, and community technology workshops that we've presented. The financial assistance for residential customers, you can see some of those listed here in our framework. Debt relief allows the utility to recover revenue. Our revenue allows us to develop and execute solutions to the challenges that we and other utilities nationwide encounter. We have three residential paths that I will discuss quickly here. The first path is when the payment is received by the due date. This is where the monthly invoice is mailed to the customer. The customer receives an invoice and then the customer pays the invoice. Our process for non-payment single family would be the monthly bill is mailed, the invoice is due, there is a late fee that is applied, The next monthly bill is mailed. The final notice is mailed to the landlord or the tenant. Seven-day notice is posted to the door. The water service is disconnected and there's a door tag left. The customer makes a payment or signs up for a payment plan. And then finally, the service is restored within 48 hours after payment or a payment plan. The process for our non-payment multi-unit customers monthly bill again is mailed an invoice is due a late female late fee is applied the monthly bill is mailed a hang notice letter is listed on each unit a seven day notice is posted to each unit in an office door the water service is disconnected with another door tag the customer makes a payment and the services are once again restored

So as we mentioned previously at the beginning of the presentation, maintaining water service is our priority and we want to ensure every resident has the information they need to avoid service interruption. If a resident faces a potential water shutoff due to non-payment, there is a five-step communication process, really, that we will work through with the city of Toledo that residents will receive. Step one is going to be that initial bill. It all begins with that monthly invoice. This is mailed directly to the resident, and it outlines the current usage and, of course, the total amount due. We then have the second step of this process, which is the first reminder. If the initial payment is missed, a notice of non-payment will be included and mailed with that next monthly bill to the resident. This serves as a secondary reminder for that resident to help hopefully settle that balance that's owed. If that is missed and there's no contact made by the resident, then they will receive a formal warning. Should the account remain unpaid, we would move to this stage of the process, a final notice and an eight-day occupant letter would be mailed. This provides a specific window of time that action needs to be taken before further steps that the City of Toledo would move into. if again no contact is made and if the bill should remain unpaid then there is actually a physical property notice that gets posted on the property so we'll bring the notification directly to that property to that home with a seven-day door hanger that's posted it's highly visible there's an example of it here on the slide of what it looks like and that is really the final notice that they're going to receive before there could be an interruption of that service That final step, step five, is actually that service disconnection. If no payment or arrangements have been made to be set up on an installment plan, service will be turned off. At that time, a water disconnection posting is done on the property and it also provides information on how to be reconnected. So this tag includes specific steps and all of the contact information required to get the water turned back on as quickly as possible. So if the resident does receive disconnection, this is what the disconnection notice looks like that they'll see. And the customer must take action to have that service restored. This door tag is left on the property and the customers can then reach out to the city of Toledo through several methods that are listed to get that balance paid in full or get set up on an installment plan with us. Once that action is taken by the resident, service will be restored within 48 hours. As mentioned, our goal for resuming residential disconnection isn't just about business as usual. It's about a strategic, compassionate, and re-engaged approach with our customers to ensure they have the water they need while we are responsibly managing our utility in these accounts. We're balancing two goals here. The first and foremost is prevention. We want to avoid the physical act of turning off water whenever that's possible. It's costly for us, and it's a hardship to our residents, and we recognize that. However, the second goal of this is the collection piece. We need to begin recovering past due balances, and we must do that through a sustainable approach and method that doesn't hopefully result in mass service loss to our residents before the moratorium we had 312 customers that had had their service disconnected for non-payment those residents when the moratorium took place then had their services restored during covid We have been successful in getting those services reconnected even through installment plans and payments. So those 312 are now a group of 102 customers that have not made any payments on those past due balances. That group is gonna be the first group that we approach with this process when we start resuming disconnections in June. Just to give council members an overview of what it looks like for our residential customers, we have about 93,000, a little over 93,000 active accounts. Of those, about 17% are delinquent. This slide represents a breakdown of the delinquency by dollar amount. So once we move through that group of 102 that I spoke about earlier, we will continue with targeted messaging and approach to our customers in these various dollar amount categories. Additionally, we are working with our legal team on a case-by-case basis for those where you see that $10,000 or above amount. We feel like those need to be handled differently, and so we are working on those on a case-by-case basis with legal we are working very closely with our communications team to utilize multiple channels for community outreach and messaging we are utilizing digital portal portals through the city website social media and the TOL my TOL portal we are also utilizing direct messaging with text and email notifications utility bills inserts and targeted billing messages we have incurred we have in community engagement through our libraries and through community centers we have employees who can actually engage with residents and meet with them to help explain their bills and the process for water disconnection and also give them the materials and information they need to sign up for installment plans and help them be successful in paying their bills. As I mentioned, our goal is to help customers be successful with paying their bills and not necessarily to turn off their water. This is just a tool that we use to help the utility and those customers.

We can answer any questions that you may have.

Great, thank you very much. So this is very well thought out. I thought this was a very compassionate but firm way to do this versus just a blanket do this or else kind of a situation. So I do not have any questions but look like Council Member Gaddis may have a question.

Thanks, Chair. Thank you. This is very thought out. able to use Ptolemy to pull up people that have been delinquent three months or greater because I know sometimes we miss a payment in my district and I'm really concerned about some of the things I see and I I know that you mentioned the Area Office on Aging, but in my district, there are 693 delinquent households that are also homestead exempted, so we know those are senior citizens. Are we using any other kind of outreach? Because as I, you know, built the spreadsheet and really looked at stuff, we have, I have 564 that are tax delinquent. They're not paying their property taxes. We have some that are on the cyclical mole list. So some of these are We can tell that it's not just they're not able to pay their water, but they're much bigger issues. Have you looked at the interconnectivity and how you're going to deal with some of these more challenging or more sensitive groups?

Yes, so we do have someone in our department that does the outreach. And she'll go not only to the senior centers, but she also works with United Way. She'll go to the libraries, schools, and then meet one on one. Because we do have a number of people that have plumbing issues as well. And so we're trying to work with different organizations. and assist with plumbing, and a lot of times the bill amount might be due to those plumbing issues that they have. So we are trying to work with people one on one. We have been looking at the data. We have pulled out Ptolemy. We're working with veterans. any funds that they have that they can provide to help reduce the water bill we've been very successful with that so we are trying to look through those. By district as well so you know we would be more than happy to kind of look at that with you. And we can you know if you have suggestions we can let you know what we've been working on.

Yeah, I think that would be excellent. I'd love to sit down and I know you've invited me. I just haven't had the time. The other thing that I'm concerned with is some of the owners that are delinquent. You know, Ptolemy is really awesome. It'll tell you how many properties they own. There are 33 people or 33 properties on that list that own over 100 properties. So have you looked into that and are we treating people or owners, companies, LLCs, whomever they are, that own greater than four properties up to hundreds? Are you treating them any different than you would treat a regular homeowner?

So many of those fall under the slide that we had that are the $10,000 and up that owe $10,000 and up. And so, yes, we are looking at that. Some of them follow under the $5,000 and slightly under $10,000. So we are looking at other options of what we can do with working with some of those landlords that own multiple properties.

and we have reached out some of them have reached out to us so we are working with them okay and then do you keep a record of calls because when i used Ptolemy very few people had called in at least when i pulled through called in and disputed a bill called in on information so is there a place i can find how many of my residents are reaching out

Sure, so if residents are reaching out to Engage Toledo, for example, we log that information so we can work with Jenny's team to probably get that information for you.

Okay, and that's why we've been looking at utilizing the library system, and then that way we can let residents know in those areas that we'll be there in the afternoons or evenings as needed. We've also worked with neighborhood groups as well if they have meetings trying to get people out that they could ask questions and then we can work with them one on one. Because not everyone wants to pick up the phone or has the ability to utilize some of our other technology tools to reach out to us.

Yeah, I guess my concern is just the sheer number of people and the ability for us to reach them through partners and stuff. I'm really concerned that we're not gonna be able to do that. I've also, just on a side note, looked at non-residential and there's about 100 in my district. Are we doing something different for the non-residential? these are not industrial, so these would be I found churches and businesses and so these aren't huge. These are non-residential within our neighborhoods.

Yes, so with the commercial properties, we did begin the shutoffs last summer with those and many of them we've had to work one-on-one with because there's plumbing issues. The churches and some of the non-profits, we are looking into some other projects options outreach that we can work because we do realize that especially with some of the churches that we have they're older buildings and they have plumbing issues so what can we do to get those resources to the non-profit that owns a house that they're they're running the non-profit out of or an older building so we are that is on our radar we are looking at that okay thank you thank you thank you chair

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, we've been talking about delinquent water bills for at least a year and a half. And it is astounding when you look at the numbers that the department has presented us. Roughly 8,000 people owe us at least $1,000 to over $10,000. Now, those are all residential that you list here?

That's correct. Yes.

All residential, okay. I'm just astounded by the fact that some people owe us over $10,000. These are residences or apartment houses? Can you tell us?

Sure. These are residential accounts. As mentioned earlier, some of those that are that $10,000 or higher amount are potentially property owners who own multiple residential properties. We're working with our legal team to deal with those more on a case-by-case basis. um but some of these are are just your norm all of these represent your normal you know single family home um some of these as mentioned the first group that we're starting may have had their water disconnected prior to the moratorium because of not paying their utility bill that's the first group we're going to start with with this process for water disconnection to hopefully get them set up on some type of payment plan or have them bring their balance and

Do we have any commercial or industrial payers that are still delinquent with us?

We do. So when we reported during the last finance committee hearing, let's see here, we had... Commercial customers, outstanding balance was about 7.6 million. Industrial customers, the outstanding balance on those was about 1.9 million. As Director Bannister mentioned, the shutoffs for those, the process for those did start last summer, and we have found success in that, and we have collected on those or had some of those industrial or commercial customers and accounts get set up on payment claims.

so we are we are actively collecting so would you say would you say 80 or 90 percent of the commercial industrial customers that owe us are on a payment plan or have come up with the funds to pay the bill I might not be able to do that math in my head right now but I can get that for you

Yeah, we show on the commercial accounts, we have collected, as of March, 4.7 million. On the industrial, it's about a million. So yeah, pretty successful there, but I could get you that exact percentage.

Okay, so with this new plan of action that we have here, So how long is it, if someone is delinquent and they have been notified, how much time will elapse before we turn the water off?

Sure. So if we go to this slide so you can see it as we walk through it. So really it'll be a couple months because they're going to get that first month bill that's going to be due.

Okay.

if they don't make that payment on the due date, they're then gonna get a notification on that next month's bill that there's an outstanding balance. After that, if we haven't gotten paid, they're gonna start receiving some more final notice type letters and information and they're gonna get that eight day occupant letter. So there will be several months that they will be receiving information for us before that disconnection will occur. They will also receive postings on their property notifying them of what to do so that service isn't disconnected.

Okay. I've been a resident of Toledo for many years. I can tell you what Columbia Gas and what Toledo Edison does. If you don't pay the bill, they cut you off. And that affects people's health, their welfare, their families, and so forth. But it seems like here in the city of Toledo, we've got a very, very easygoing plan. And two months, maybe longer, they can not pay the bill. And maybe at the end of two months, maybe three months, the water will be cut off. Edison doesn't do that. Columbia Gas doesn't do that. And we are owed tens of millions of dollars. And I understand COVID, that affected all of us, but we really need to get moving on this because what I'm hearing from my constituents is, I pay my water bill, I pay it on time, and 95.5%, according to DPU, what you've told us, 95.5% of customers are current. 4.5% are delinquent. And it seems to me that we really have to change that and bring people up to speed. We have payment plans, we have communications going out, far more than Columbia Gas, far more than Toledo Edison. They probably send one or two notices and that's it. Then you're cut off. So I just, you know, my patience for this program is really wearing thin. We need to collect this money because we have a utility we have to provide these services to people and it's not fair to the 95 and a half percent of the people that are paying When we know it's going to take at least two months. I really wish it was one month Because we need to really have action here because people are not happy about this I hear it all the time and We need to do something. So, you know, every month we're going to ask how much we have collected and is it residential, commercial, industrial because we really need to address this because people are tired of hearing about, hey, Other people aren't paying their bills, but they still got their water. I pay my bill faithfully and so forth. And we're now going to be in the summer season when we know the water bills are going to spike because of outside activities, because we eliminated winter averaging. Those bills are going to go high. So I just hope that every month we can say we've made a lot of progress.

Yeah, that's our plan. That's why we are really taking a process approach is so we have a good plan and so that it's successful, right? Our goal of this is to help residents be successful in paying their utility bills. And as you mentioned, Councilman, we do have several methods that they can use to pay their water bills, and we have customer assistance programs to help them do that. we want to make sure our residents know that information is out there we want to make sure as a utility we're assisting them in in doing that and um you know that's our goal for the program and that's why we want to present this information to you is you know you can help us spread that information out and uh We will plan to restart this connection June 1st.

Well, I'll say this again, probably for the third or fourth time, as Don Zerniak, a longtime city of Toledo, Department of Public Utilities employee, told me many times in the presence of Councilman Driscoll, they used to go out to these homes where they owed us money, and they told them, look, we're going to turn off the water, and immediately people were coming out of their houses with cash to pay what was due to the city of Toledo. I don't think that's, I don't think that has changed any. I think what Don has told us is it can happen again. So we really need to get moving on this issue because it's tens of millions of dollars. I believe it was $66 million a year and a half ago that was owed to us. So good luck and Godspeed, and I look forward to hearing numbers that are positive that we have collected. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Councilman. I'd like to, sorry, I can't hear myself. I'd like to recognize Council President Williams in attendance, Dr. Jones.

thank you chair thank you for providing this information um especially with the up-to-date data i'm just curious going back while actually reading off of the tag that you have there that saying if the service is disconnected you will be required to pay a security deposit is that like a flat fee or is that based upon income per se or what how do you work that

yeah it is a flat fee that we have for reconnection that would be applied to that person's utility bill it is something we're also we're able to as we're working with getting customers on payment plans and installment plans that that that fit their household incomes it is something that we are able to waive if that person gets set up and we're able to restore that service

So what is the flat fee, I'm assuming?

Do you have that list with you? I don't have that list with me, but I can take my way of referral. I'm sorry, I thought I had it with me.

Okay, I can put in a referral for that. So it's the security deposit plus the outstanding balance in order to restore service. So my concern would be, I know that you mentioned one of your staff goes out and works with different organizations such as United Way, so I'm assuming like 211 and things of that nature. But considering that utility assistant programs are kind of non-existent, and then I understand that you did mention the customer service one, but that's only 100,000 total. So how... if there is just absolutely no way so they can't pay the security deposit and then there is no utility assistance and whatever they can get from the the one program how exactly what would you do then how does that work then because i know we are trying to work with residents but you know, putting $25 down on a $500 water bill that can take some time to really get in compliance. So how would you handle situations like that?

Sure. That's a really good question. And something I did fail to mention is we are working closely with our law department to determine what type of debt forgiveness we can do based on household income or, you know, we have a certain percentage below that median household median household income for Toledo so that we can offer various programs. We have explored the idea of doing some type of amnesty program, for example, other debt forgiveness programs that we have to offer. There are tools as Director Bannister mentioned example, where we have some veteran services who they have some funding that they can assist those customers in helping to pay their bill. I would really encourage someone in that type of situation to call and to engage Toledo, because we really, really try to work with that customer and do whatever we can to set them up to be successful and make sure, whatever that amount is, that they can do that, and we will work with them for that payment. okay is do you or probably will be by referral as far as like any the cities or any models that you're looking at for that amnesty yeah we are we have explored several models and have done research and there's actually it was in Washington the model that in the approach that we liked the most we felt like it was the most helpful and similar for for the city of toledo so that is the one we're exploring and and we have a call with law next week to make sure that's something we could do and if so of course we will provide more information on that and what that looks like so in consideration if you know the debt is forgiven how does that affect our budget then Yeah, so we actually ran the numbers based on several models that were done in other cities. The model from Washington that we liked the best is what we ran, and we ran that against our collection numbers, what we budget as far as revenue and expenditures going out, and based it on certain percentages and made some assumptions based on what our collection numbers were. pre-COVID, post-COVID, et cetera. So our finance team did run those numbers to see what that looks like. And we're happy to provide that if law gives us the go-ahead that we can run some type of amnesty program.

Oh, yes, definitely would want some other information with that. So other than that, I mean, it's great that there are solutions. I'm just concerned, of course, with the tight budget, but then also making sure that the residents have water because that is a public health issue. just trying to work with people because I mean money is getting tighter all the time and with these amounts that are due for these bills it's gonna take a while for them to possibly come back in compliance so you know just looking forward to just having an update but definitely looking into that amnesty program though but thank you so much for your work already done I know this is very very challenging

you chair great thank you uh so you actually actually my colleagues raised some questions that i didn't think i had but now i do so based on can you go to slide eight i think communication with the residents so roughly assuming it's you know a single 30-day month right you were looking uh what possibly 75 days

well once we get this program up and running that could potentially be it what um what will continuously happen though is uh you know as we're starting with that one or 102 we're also bringing in that next group right because as those bills are due monthly and really more of it is what we can handle as far as our internal operations and our department of our division of water distribution as far as those turnoffs so we um we think the best approach is and how we're going to manage it is um is is being able in a weekly amount of time over like let's say we take it monday through thursday we could do about 50 turnoffs a day if it if it got to that point right because then we do those turn offs on thursday for example and if that resident pays their bill or gets set up an installment plan we want the we want to have that ability to turn that water back on on friday so we would probably be running those disconnections um monday through thursday when we think about 50 per day if it gets to the point where we're averaging that 200 a week got it so maybe i

Sorry, it's really loud. Maybe I didn't phrase my question correctly. So based on these dates, right? So in this process, the monthly invoice, right? They don't pay. They get a notice of nonpayment. That's another month, right? So about 75 days.

Oh, sure.

Right? So my question is, is this statutory? Like, by law, we have to do it this way? Or is it this is based on best practices that we've seen? because I guess I wanted to address Councilman Sorrento's concern about this takes a really long time. and how can we expedite this particular timeframe to more of a consolidated but effective timeframe?

Sure, I think this is more of a best practice approach for prevention and collection, right? Having clean, safe drinking water is definitely a health priority for our residents, but then also the collection piece on making sure that we are receiving the revenue that's owed to the city. So it's a balance and best practice approach.

Gotcha. I'm sorry, go ahead. So I think... if i have this correct uh... from both councilman sarantu and martinez what you're asking it kind of how soon we will get started with disconnection is that the question so no no okay it's that was your day okay i think you said you first when you were over yet right so it's just the way you know it can be truncated instead of

75 days can we truncate it to 40 50 days from start to finish that that was kind of where i was kind of questioning is it best practice or do we have to do these steps statutorily you know because it's a like you said it was a a health issue so that was kind of my question okay all right

But I know Councilman Sarantu did nod his head, that is the question. And to answer that, we did turn on our, what we call the Dunnings account, where we know the people that need to be shut off and started those notices. So we can start soon, not necessarily within those 75 days. So we have started with the notices.

that answers your question okay okay um council president williams thank you and i apologize for being late um had a family matter to take care of did we get to slide 11. We did all the slides. I know we're talking about the times and how long it takes, but I don't know if any of y'all ever had your water cut off, but we had ours cut off every summer because my mother simply couldn't pay. I know we've given a lot of grace period, but I think we've done well, but I guarantee the ones that are under 1,000 are struggling families at home that just need to be aware of the payment plan. If they're in my district, let me know, because those are the families that I want to touch to make sure that they have the assistance plans, because I know plenty of people that are on payment plans, but I know a whole lot of people that don't even know we have one. So I don't know, some of those 10,000 probably just don't know where, don't know, they're probably not even there anymore, so I'm good with that. probably chopping them off but the ones that are under a thousand I guarantee they don't know that there's a payment plan and if they're in my district I need to know because I don't know if anybody on this day has ever been without water I have and it is degrading to have a water hose pulled from a neighbor's house to wash up is degrading to have to walk around the corner to wash up. I understand we have a dire need to be collecting our bills where we are right now. But when we have families that don't have the money to do it, I don't want to punish them by not at least offering some help. And I'll go door to door to do that. I ain't going door to door to collect nobody's money because I don't want anybody going to take no money from nobody's door because that's where the shadiness is starting. They don't even make it downtown. So I'm okay with helping. Let me know what I need to do. And I I'm all about trying to make sure we get people on payment plans. But I am in the wherewithal that we do need to collect these dollars. But when we have gas and utilities, it's not really willing to work with people that's out of town. And we're right here. We need to help. So I appreciate. all the work that we're doing to collect those dollars. But I ain't have water. Every summer. I was in elementary school. Every summer I was in junior high. And until I was able to get a job in high school, that was when I started helping my mother pay the water bill. So I want to be a compassionate council. And I want to say, what can we do to help? If I need to go door to door, I'll do it. I don't have a problem with doing it. And I'm not sending our workers out to collect money. That's not fair to them. And that's not a good idea anyway. Because... You just don't do that. So whatever I can do to help let me know. I want to know everybody in my district and I'll do District 32. Let's go.

Okay, thank you Madam President. If there's no more questions on the DS for this, I will open it up to public comment. You will have three minutes since this is a long agenda. There is a sign up sheet, but this is specifically for this portion of the presentation. So if there's anything outside of that, I have no problem gaveling, and we can just wait until we get to the next one. That's okay. Come on in, Mr. Reinbold.

Bob Reinbold, 5162.8, Toledo, Ohio, 43613. I appreciate you having a hearing and discussing these issues. Councilman Gaddis mentioned earlier industrial accounts. I represent several, and I've worked with Commissioner Geronimo and utilities, and they've been very helpful. trying to work those through. But I would also point out that several of those did not receive bills or the meters weren't read. So there's issues, it's more than just the people not paying. There are issues out there in terms of when they went to the new billing system and all the conversions. So we need to take that into consideration. A couple of things. The amount of money you're looking at now, is that just water and sewer or is that the amount owed on the bill? Chief or director?

That is the water amount owed on the bill.

So it doesn't include refuse fee and storm fees and other fees?

So the amount on the bill would include the refuse fee, I believe.

I'm assuming it's probably the whole bill.

Well, and in our system, the way we're treating it is we are able to identify what those different bills are. So are you asking if these total amounts are including the whole bill or just the water portion?

I'm just pointing out, I mean, your bill comes to my house and it's got a variety of fees on it. So when you're looking at that, you have certain things you can do with water and sewer. Refugee is a little bit different. You know, storms, you know, it's whatever is best for you guys. You guys are the experts in it. I'm just pointing that out. That needs to be understood and go from there. Can you no longer put liens on property for sewers to liquidate?

So the bill amount is water, sewer, and storm. And yes, there are cases where we need to look at other options that we have, and that could include liens.

As you probably all know, for years I did this. For years we put, it has to be owner-occupied, not tenant. We put a lien on the property, and you guys have a real problem that you're facing now. And some of this is going to have to be addressed over a period of time, but that is an option you have in terms of putting sewer liens on. When I sat out here and asked AI, it says you can do water and sewer. I think it's just sewer, but maybe you can do water. I'm not sure on that. Things change since I've been involved in that. So that's good to look at. I'd also comment back to Councilman Bernice Williams' comments. When I was involved, we did not take money in the field for the various reasons you're saying. Talking back to Don Zerniak's comments, we would deal with, if somebody give us a check, there's an occasion on that. Some people out there could do it, but if they don't know, that's the point. You need to get out there and make these people aware of them, and it sounds like you're trying to work towards that. in terms of when you look at your fees and all this. You took winter average away from me. We are out of time.

We are out of time. What? You have your three minutes. My three minutes up? Yep, I'll give you one more minute.

I was just gonna comment on the winter average. That was something that was taken away from people because you wanted the revenue to do this. So I'm just asking you to go forward and put together your program. We used to do it. I think, Council Martinez, you asked the question earlier, is there a way to shorten it? We used to be able to do it, well, in 30 days after the bill. Bill's due in 15 days. You get your notices out and you turn it off. Legally, there may be other issues. It's been a long time since I've been involved. I appreciate you listening to me. Thank you, Mr. Romero.

I appreciate it. And then I just would point out, I believe there was a bill at the state house that may prohibit putting liens on real property. I don't know if that still has any legs or not, but that was a concern just to address that question. Anybody else? If not, Chief Director, I'm sorry. You can say your name and your address for the record.

La Dawn, 2043 Northwick Drive, Point Place.

Okay, and you'll have three minutes.

I just have a couple of questions. Are we looking at the history of payment and delinquency for some of these single family homes to see if there's dips maybe or recent medical or mental or maybe physical challenges to gain a better understanding of why they could possibly be delinquent and then have we did like data to see how much is a delinquency cost and how much is actual bill costs for some of these single family homes to kind of have a comparison for programming and getting them back in the positive? Just had two questions.

Okay, yep, so two questions, first answer.

sure so i'm something we do have access to his past history of those utility bills so we we do have all of that information on what those past payments would look like uh... we do not have access to all of the information of what uh... that other resident mayo as far as any private that they may go to anyone else so we would not have access to that information However, that being said, we really, really try to work with the residents to make sure we're setting them up on a payment plan that they can afford and that makes sense for their household.

So just a quick question about that. I understood like with the new smart meters, you can set up alerts, right? So you can like do leak detection and stuff so you don't get this astronomical bill. You can get it text to your phone, right? So there's new technologies to help kind of monitor your usage.

Absolutely. Right? Yep. Okay. yep absolutely so we do have those features as far as the delinquency so costs that's where we can work with residents and where we were exploring the idea of doing some type of amnesty program where we you know if a certain amount is paid for example a certain amount is forgiven or a certain amount is paid certain amount is forgiven and then maybe that remainder balance is set up on a payment plan so that is something we are exploring as far as those delinquency costs and if there are fees we do have some flexibility and being able to waive those fees and just make sure that actual bill for those utilities is being paid we also as i mentioned previously have it separated out so we know what that water sewer storm and refuse fee look like we would not for example be able to like waive the refuse fee from

My question, my first question was based, I don't want you guys chasing money that you truly didn't work for, like with delinquent costs or nonpayment costs. If they can't pay their original bill, they're truly not going to be able to come up with restoration fees so having added the program of you know waiving some costs would probably be beneficial so we're not chasing money that we truly didn't work for or gotcha so compounding fees that they got it okay and then I believe we do have in the pier a mystery query right if you have any specific questions about your bill or anything in the future

So let's move on. Any other questions, concerns about the turn-off process? If not, we're gonna move on. All right, let's go to the AMI meter update. One of our favorite things to talk about. Meters, installation, technology.

Okay, well, thank you for your time this afternoon, almost this evening. Based on your request, the department is providing an update to the Advanced Metering Infrastructure Program, or AMI. This information continues to be tracked and utilized by the divisions of Water Distribution and Utilities Administration, headed by commissioners Todd Psalms and Cindy Geronimo, respectively. AMI is our smart water meter system that provides accurate usage measurement. The meters allow the division to reduce manual reads and provides detailed hourly usage data that customers can view online. All of the benefits of the new meters allow us to provide a better experience for the customer and to meet our goal of providing quality products and services. A total of 122,363 meters have been exchanged through our program. We have 2,410 meters that need to be exchanged. This allows our read rate to be 98% from November 2025. To April 1st, we've had 752 exchanges completed and 1,128 door tags have been hung. Reconnections make a significant portion of completed exchanges per month. Remaining accounts are in one of three categories. They're either pending, scheduled, or moving toward disconnection. We have seven ways to let residents know that the meters need to be changed and they are moving into the steps of non-compliance. Disconnections. You can see what our seven points are here. There are four letters or postcards that are sent, two phone calls are made, and one disconnect door tag is placed. We have a number of public outreach opportunities, and those coincide with what we were just talking about earlier with the disconnections non-payment disconnections and then we've also had some opportunities for media coverage and that includes social media as well our Our vision is to become an industry-leading utility providing for the growth, protection, and delivery of essential water and environmental resources to our customers. We appreciate the time to provide you with an update and I'm available to answer any questions that you may have.

Thank you, Director. I will just say that I am on your bad boy list because I did get my tag and I didn't realize that I didn't swap out my meter and I will get that done.

Okay.

And the gentleman that started looking for the water turn off was very nice. I forgot his name. I'm like, hey, can I help you? Super nice. He's like, yeah, you got to get this changed out. I'm like, I did call.

Okay.

But for whatever reason, I missed my appointment. So I will get it taken care of. Council Member Gattis.

Thanks. I just wonder if you have any data per district, per zip code, how many yet have to be changed?

Yes, we do. And some of those might have some notes of maybe there's some difficulties. The meter might be difficult to get to or there might be a plumbing issue.

But we can get that list to you by way of referral and work with you for your district or open to any ideas to get that messaging to those residents.

Okay, I would appreciate that. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Madam Council Member Gattis. But along those lines, so since we are having difficulty and if... we would know if they would qualify for low-income programming, right? So, you know, discounts and stuff like that. Is it possible to couple the repairs with emergency repair using CDBG or emergency home repairs or anything to make sure that the previous director and I had kind of talked about it, but really didn't move forward? So I didn't know if that was still maybe an option. yeah i mean we're happy to discuss that with director clemens and see if that's an option for cdbg funds i don't know that answer so i think one of the biggest concerns for the council was not only on the follow-up to make sure that we're using our people to do the installs and then you know saving money in the long run and making sure that we take this in-house over time but also the unintended consequence of swapping out meters because of difficulty access or maybe they built around it or something that the homeowner wasn't aware of or maybe purchased a property and didn't realize there was an issue with it and we're not trying to add additional financial burden to the homeowner or renter or landlord we just wanted to make sure that it gets done right and i think that was the big picture so that was my question trying to find creative financial solutions to ensure that the job gets done and that no one really is financially harmed uh in the long run so that's i i would do a referral for that also

Councilman Sorrento. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So we have about 2,400 meters that still have to be installed. And on your document, you're telling us that we have on average 240 exchanges being done every month. so to me that would mean maybe 10 or 11 more months it would take but you've got down here it could take 18 to 24 months could you explain the 18 to 24 months why

part of that is as we move into some of the meter exchanges they're a little bit more difficult so could take a little bit longer so if there's repairs we have meters that maybe they're they're boxed in with drywall and so we have to figure out the best way to move forward with those but again we are we are continuing to do these um exchanges in-house i think when we came before you before we had over five five thousand um at the beginning of the year so they are water distribution has been working with people and Doing what we can to try to get to the point of reducing that, but some of them were getting to the more difficult ones. So it might. Take a little bit longer.

Do you have any idea how many disconnect door tags? We had to place at people's homes in order to get the meters changed where they didn't respond.

from outside of the one door tag, the initial door tag? Yeah. After the door tag, if we don't have communication, that's when we move to the disconnection. So we have the noncompliance disconnect.

Okay, so did we do disconnection then? Yes. I'm just wondering how many we had. Were they, they didn't respond to the notices and so forth?

get that by way of referral the number that have been disconnected for non-compliance okay that number is what you're looking for i'm sorry could you repeat that the number of um of customers who have had it had service disconnected because of non-compliance is the number where they yeah where they didn't respond sure we can get to have the meter installed

634. Oh, 134.

Okay. 634. All right. Well, I mean, that's pretty good out of 122,000 so far. That's good. Okay. So the other question I had, if you'll recall, council approved an expenditure somewhere around $800,000 for a private company to supervise the installation of these meters. And at the time that we did that, I know I and several other members of council said, why can't we have 2058 learn how to supervise the installation of these meters and learn the reporting basis, when the jobs are completed and so forth. So I guess my question is, are we doing training of our 2058 supervisors to ultimately take this over? Because we're spending almost a million dollars, $800,000 to this private company. And we're trying to save the city money, whether it's utilities or whether it's the general fund. So could you explain to us how that is going? Are we training some of our supervisors to do this work?

Sure. I believe the final request was less than the $800,000. We have done all of the... The work that the meter exchanges that I just explained, we've done all of those internally.

Local seven.

Yeah, employees, local seven, supervisors are 2058. 2058. Managers and commissioner. And like I mentioned at the time, we were over 5,000 that needed to be exchanged. Now part of that request, that meter exchange was only part of their scope of work. for the consultant. The scope included management of the entire AMI, well, portions of the AMI program, as well as additional services. The services that we are going to utilize doesn't include any items that we can do internally. The data, the reports that we've been providing to you on a monthly basis, those reports are all done in-house. We will utilize them to assist with any new analytics, any networking monitoring tools, and leveraging any new tools that are part of census so it would be similar to if you have uh... a new iphone and you're only only using it to make phone calls you know that there's other things that the phone can do and so that's what we're utilizing them for is for training utility administration and water distribution distribution on how to utilize those tools and what they are uh... so it will be a short period of time. That has not started yet. But when we finish the procurement process, that's what we will utilize them for, is asset management and finding those tools that we weren't utilizing before.

So we will have 2058 people capable of supervising this eventually.

Sure. To clarify, currently our team is doing the installations from water distribution. So our local seven team and 2058 team.

Okay. Yes. Good. Because I am told that these meters may only last 10 years, maybe 15 years, which means we're going to have to reinstall new meters. And I would like to see that we have our people doing that work and 2058 supervising that successfully rather than having to hire a firm to go out and do that for us, which costs a lot more. And I imagine with inflation the way it is, it may cost us $2 million. So that's where I'm going with this. I just think that we need to make sure that our employees, who are good people, they work hard, let's get them involved in this so we can save the dollars. It's kind of like my thinking on the proposal for the police tow lot. Why do we have to hire a company to do the work that we already have employees, And police officers that can do that work. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Councilman. So just so I'm understanding, the reason we had additional help was because we did a mass blitz to get this done, correct? Correct. And internally, we couldn't handle it, all of it.

correct there were pieces of that with the technology and making sure that the automated system of these meters getting into our billing system the reads right the usage etc so you're exactly right it was a huge undertaking right so this is obviously before me but

so that's the reason we had a third-party contractor right to do this it wasn't a slight to our current employees or we just needed to get it done get it over with and obviously it's still taking a little bit longer than we anticipated but it was never about taking a work away from our unions or privatizing or anything like that correct correct okay so hopefully we can put that to rest now um any other questions from the ds regarding the ami project Okay, I will open it up to the public. If anyone would like to have any questions specifically about the AMI project. Going once, going twice. Okay, so let's move on. Let's talk about spent line. All kinds of fun stuff today. Hold on one second. We'll get a...

Okay.

Yeah, we do have a paper copy. Yep.

So you can go ahead and get started until... Everyone should have a paper copy if we... Yeah.

Technology is great until it doesn't work. Okay. Unfortunately, we just have a paper copy.

Okay. No problem. I have with me today Commissioner of Plant Operations, Andy McClure, that will be presenting and also here to answer some questions that we may have.

All right, thank you. Andy McClure, Commissioner of Plant Operations. Just a quick overview of spent lime removal. The plant produces about 50,000 dry tons per year of spent lime. It's a byproduct of the treatment process. It is a result of softening the water, and the softening is done for aesthetic reasons and for industrial reasons for good water quality. Removal and hauling of lime from spent lime lagoons is funded at $5,500,000 annually. And this has been a long-term program. It's been going on for several years. If we were to attempt to remove all the spent lime that's stored in the lagoons at once, it'd be close to a $50 million project. At the rate that we are removing the $5.5 million, about 88% of that money goes towards spent lime that is generated in the present year, and then 12% goes towards what we call the legacy spent lime. So if we were just keep going forward at this rate, the 88% and 12%, we would clean the lagoons out by 2082. We have spent lime removal. The management plan was developed and been tracked since 2010 of about 400,000 dry tons stored in the lagoons. The 2025 timeline for removal, we were able to remove spent lime from the lagoons between April and October. It was about 100 days of good weather. It's partially the weather to excavate it out of the lagoons and also you need good conditions on the agricultural fields where it's going to be applied. um and we do this we've been trying to get ahead on this because the lagoons are actually little treatment processes and if there's not space in the lagoons the as we pump the spent lime from the plant to the lagoons and it's uh doing about five percent spent lime at that point um or less um the there's Spent lime settles out into the lagoons and it goes into an out that goes through an outfall to either duck Creek or Otter Creek depending which Laguna was going to and if the lagoons become two folders not adequate time for that treatment process to occur For the solids to settle out and we would violate our MPDS permit that we have for the lagoon outfalls So we do need to that's why we try and get ahead of On a lagoon so we create space for that process to occur and Yeah, so there's management plans associated with the spent lime disposal and reuse. The water treatment plan has to be listed as the source of it. The areas of application. Their agricultural, agronomic reuse to address for pH adjustment in farm fields is the primary use for the same. And then they're also going back to 2017, there were more formalized regulations about reuse and there are processes that can be followed to develop other appropriate reuses such as reclaiming quarries, it was one example so right in there you know regulatory requirements prior to 2017 there were more so rules and actual regulations and they were formalized at that point Then the monitoring and reporting, the land application activities, we do go out and inspect the agricultural fields that they're being applied to. Every year, the spent lime in the lagoon has to be tested. There's a T-clip that's the metal content, and we make sure that the metal content is within range and guidelines so it doesn't impact the use of the farm fields. And then harmful algal blooms are also tested for. If the harmful algal bloom residuals were to be high enough, the material would actually have to be landfilled. But as it turns out, in our case, the toxins from harmful algal blooms, they actually break down pretty readily. They're long organic chains, a lot of carbon and oxygen, and they do break down and they're no longer toxic just after a short period of time in our lagoon. So we do that testing before any of it's applied to any property anywhere. Farm fields have to be rotated through, and there's a soil amendment, the pH, how clean the soil is checked before and after to make sure we're not going too far one way. Or another it's and also you can't reuse feel, you know, there's a period of time between applications So you're not hitting the same fields over and over and over again So, I guess are there any questions at this point Okay.

Thank you. So That was very interesting. I was fairly familiar with the process since I think the entire city of Toledo got familiar with the process last year. And that's why I'm holding this hearing. So I want to make sure we don't have the same situation as we had last year, where, you know, their contract is awarded and the next thing we know we're in litigation for something. I think there is a lot of concerns over this particular contract because Who really knows anything about spent lime unless you're in the industry, right? So or you're really into the reseller use of it. So you had mentioned a couple things. So I understand because I did go through the planet bid documents that were open. And one of the questions I had, so it looks like we got the old EPA certification that says it was okay to use as an agricultural product, correct? It was renewed. It was in the file.

Yeah, the city has a loan permit that's disposed of under, yes.

Yeah, so it was renewed, so no issues there. And it kind of went through some of the testing, so I was kind of familiar with what you were referring to in terms of the testing in order to make sure that it can be turned into a byproduct, an agricultural byproduct. So my question is, if it's going to be used for agriculture, do we identify the end use or not? Like, do we know it's going to be for agricultural purpose, or is it going to be used for something else?

We have to be notified of how it's going to be used so we have an opportunity to follow through.

So then is there an agricultural permit that's required from the Department of Agriculture in order for resale or transportation?

That's why we contract it out. We don't go through that process. But yes, there is a process to acquire the fields, contact the property owner. Yeah, there is a whole process around that, but that's part of the reason it's contracted out. We just don't have that level of expertise, and it doesn't make sense for us to maintain that.

I totally understand that. I guess my question is, do we do the due diligence on the back end through the bidding process to make sure those licensings and certifications are in place? Or is that more of a procurement, like a different department that kind of handles the specifics?

Yeah, it's part of our product, yes.

I'm sorry, say that again?

Yes, it is.

It's a part of our procurement process, so there are certain documents and requirements that are needed as we go through the procurement process for acquiring different contracts, and so it's a part of that process.

Gotcha, and we did that for this process?

Yeah, all the necessary information that would be needed for our legal department, our procurement process to satisfy those needs would be submitted at the, I believe at the time of bid.

I have more questions around the process, but I will defer to Council Member Geddes.

Thanks. Thanks for the presentation. I have some concerns as well, especially about the potential recipient of our contract and 2322 Consol Street. where there is a giant pile of spent lime and the residents are mad as heck. In November of 2024, they came to the plan commission and they did a review and it was supposed to be housing the vehicles that move the spent line, we're industrial, we're blue-collared, not a big deal, and a mobile unit for their employees to take a break. It is now home of a giant pile, and I've shared with my colleagues the pictures. I don't have any more copies with me. It's ginormous. I did let the administration know, and they told them to build a fence. And it's a beautiful fence. Slots, great. It does not do anything to powder when it is dry. We had three residents. that were unable to attend and I don't know how Chair wants to handle it. They asked for their letters to be read into the record, but I just wanna say that I've been over there and this letter says, I was walking through the neighborhood and I looked at the alley between Woodford and Caledonia. I could clearly see the dust covering the houses, plants, streets, parking lots, and parked cars. When cars drove towards Front Street, the wind from the traffic blew the dust back up into the air again. I went over there too. It looks like Christmas. There are areas of piles along the sewer. What is that going to do to our sewer? I have had three people with COPD talk about how they can't go for walks. It's nice outside and they can't breathe. I don't know if they have a permit to do it, but that is not what was given to the plan commission in November of 2024. The Maumee River Basin Area of Concern Remedial Plan, Action Plan, Recommendations. This has to do with Hackey's Pond, which is three football fields away, and Duck Creek, which we have been touting in the news because of the work we have done at Collins Park to get it naturalized right we're part of the protected water base and that area is protected by the EPA they said the water treatment plan lime sludge has built up over the years in four parts of the area of concern streams the Maumee area of concern has four water treatment sludge impounds two for Toledo The city of Toledo has removed the lime sludge beds from Duck and Otter Creek. That was in 1997. Lime sludge beds can cause problems when they get big enough to cover the stream bottom, which is an important part of aquatic habitat. Also, lime sludge is alkaline and raises the pH. It's three football fields away. I've watched it blow 100 yards. Why are we putting money in, why are we federally putting money in to Duck Creek to restore it, to restore the health of the lake, only to allow this three football fields away? I am concerned for my residents that can't breathe. It is directly on a safe route to school path. We are missing something here, and I guess I'm concerned that this is six more months of this. I appreciate the smaller time window, but this is happening in District 3. We watched it happen in the south end. This is unacceptable, and it's unacceptable for the people of East Toledo to have to go through that. I don't know if you have any questions, if there's anything you can tell me. And like I said, we have three letters because many people were unable to attend due to work. Thank you.

Council Member, would you like the letters read into the record? I have no problem with that.

They were all requested. Okay. Would you please?

The clerk's gonna read these to the letter. Letters into the record.

Okay, the first letter is, my name is Rose Gaddis. I am a retired teacher from Birmingham Elementary School and have lived in this neighborhood my entire life. I am writing because I'm deeply concerned about the cement line material now being stored on the east side of Toledo and how it is affecting both our environment and the health of residents. One of my biggest concerns is the impact this dust and runoff may have on bird migration, wildlife, fish, wetland animals, and plant life in our area. We live close to creeks, ponds, and Lake Erie, and many children in this neighborhood grow up exploring these natural areas. As a former teacher, I worry about how this may affect the students and families who spend time near the water and outdoors. I also have COPD and asthma and have noticed that walking through the neighborhood has become more difficult for my breathing. I have had to use my inhalers more often since this material arrived. Seeing dust blowing through the air and covering streets, homes, and plants is very troubling for someone with respiratory problems. I would have liked to have been informed ahead of time that this material was being brought into our neighborhood. Residents deserve to know what is being stored near their homes and what the safety plan is to protect the public. Are we now expected to wear masks every day just to safely walk outside in our own neighborhood? That should never become normal. Another major concern is that this dust is not staying in one place. Vehicles driving through the area are stirring it up and carrying it into other neighborhoods and residential areas. This affects more than just East Toledo residents. I have taken photographs showing the conditions in this area of concern and have already sent them to my council person because I believe the situation deserves immediate attention. I respectfully ask the Water Committee and City Council to investigate these environmental and health concerns, explain why residents were not informed beforehand, and provide clear answers about how the City plans to keep residents safe. Please include this letter in the official public record of the Water Committee meeting.

So noted.

The second letter is from Michael Gaddis.

Dear Chair and members of the Water Committee and City Council, my name is Mike Gaddis. I'm 71 years old and have lived in the Birmingham neighborhood my entire life. I am writing because I'm very disappointed that the spent lime material is being stored on the east side of the city on Consol. What upsets me most is that residents were never properly informed that this material was being brought into our neighborhood. Why were the people living here not notified that potentially harmful or toxic material was going to be dumped and stored near our homes, schools, and parks? On Monday, after my wife and I returned from a doctor's appointment, we saw what looked like a white fog blowing off the spent lime pile. It looked like a dust storm. The wind carried it down toward the railroad tracks where kids walked to and from school. A few days later, I was walking through the neighborhood and looked through the alley between Woodford and Caledonia. I could clearly see the dust covering houses, plants, streets, parking lots, and parked cars. When cars drove by toward Front Street, the wind from the traffic blew the dust back up into the air again. I am worried about the health effects this could have on people living nearby, especially children and older residents. Breathing in this dust cannot be good for people, and I worry about possible long-term health problems. I'm also concerned about the environment. From what I can see, there does not appear to be anything underneath the pile to stop runoff. Rainwater is washing the lime into the ground and nearby grass areas, which can eventually reach the creek that flows into Lake Erie. The people of East Toledo deserve clean air, safe neighborhoods, and the same respect as every other part of the city. We should not be treated like a dumping ground. I respectfully ask the Water Committee and City Council to look into the situation, address the dust and runoff concerns, explain why residents were not informed beforehand, and keep the public updated about the safety of this material and the plans for storing it.

So noted.

Let me take a drink.

No problem, that was a lot.

Okay, the third letter is from Rose Traxler. I'm writing as a resident of East Toledo regarding a growing concern in Consol Street just past the train tracks adjacent to the rumpus room. This property was purchased and developed within the past seven years with a stone base and fencing placed around the perimeter. At the time, it was understood by residents that the space would be used for equipment storage. However, that is no longer what is happening. Neighbors, myself included, have observed the ongoing accumulation of a gray mud-like substance that continues to grow both wider and taller. We have since learned that this material is spent lime, a byproduct of the water treatment process. The situation is escalating and cannot be overlooked. The material is not being properly contained. It is spreading beyond the fenced area and visibly leaching onto the surrounding field where it is being absorbed directly into the ground. The roadway is also becoming covered in this substance. When dry, it becomes airborne, blowing onto homes, vehicles, and throughout the neighborhood. This raises serious health and safety concerns. Airborne lime dust is known to cause irritation to the respiratory system, eyes, and skin. Under Ohio Environmental Protection Agency air pollution nuisance standards, emissions of particulate matter that unreasonably interfere with the comfortable enjoyment of the life or property are prohibited. The current conditions strongly suggest that this standard may be being violated. Additionally, the apparent leaching and ground absorption of this material raises concerns under Ohio EPA regulations governing solid waste in industrial byproducts, including Ohio administrative code chapters, 3745-27 and 3745-30. If spent lime is being stored in a manner that allows runoff, infiltration, or dispersion beyond containment, it may constitute improper handling or disposal of industrial material. There are also significant environmental risks. Toledo is an urban community directly connected to Lake Erie and Maumee Bay with multiple creeks and storm water systems feeding into these waterways the potential for this material to alter soil and water ph and ultimately impact tributaries is deeply concerning this concern is heightened giving ongoing federal investment in protecting these exact resources Congresswoman Marcy Captor has secured substantial funding to restore and protect Lake Erie and its surrounding watershed. The conditions at this site appear to undermine those efforts and the broader public interest in environmental stewardship. Furthermore, this use raises clear zoning concerns. Under the Toledo Municipal Code, Land use must align with designated zoning classifications. The transition from presumed equipment storage to what appears to be open storage or dumping of industrial byproduct may constitute an unpermitted use. Additionally, the creation of dust, debris, and offsite impacts may qualify as a public nuisance under local code enforcement standards. This is not just a concern, it is a community issue. In speaking with other residents in the area, there is clear and shared opposition to this site being used in this manner. Please consider immediate intervention. Specifically, we respectfully request an immediate site inspection by the appropriate city and Ohio EPA authorities. A formal determination of compliance with Ohio EPA regulations and Toledo zoning laws. Enforcement action including a cease and desist order if violations are found. Implementation of proper containment, dust control, and environmental safeguards if operations are to continue in any capacity. We deserve clean air, protected water, and responsible land use in our neighborhood. The current situation does not reflect those standards. Thank you for your time and consideration.

So noted. Councilman Sorrentino.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I'm just curious. I noticed that in the ordinance that we got that a contractor for the spent lime removal was not mentioned. Has a selection recommendation been made by the administration? If so, who is it?

Sure. So Rocky Ridge was the lowest bidder for this particular contract. We did reach out to all of the respondents to make sure they would hold their bid prices in order, you know, to extend this. Right. The timelines, they all agreed. So Rocky Ridge is the lowest bidder and who we do anticipate awarding.

Could you tell us what the Rocky Ridge bid was as well as the other two bids were?

Yeah. Do you have it?

If you don't have it, I mean, by way of referral?

Yeah, of course. Yes, we'll take that as a referral.

Okay. All right, I'll write that out. And then the spent line project we had over on Angola Road and at the water plant, was that also for $5.5 million per year?

That was simply beneficial reuse. It was not, there was no indication that it was,

to be 100 where the five point you know where the spent line being removed under that contract was going to go well i mean what was the price that that we agreed to with the contractor for that project was it the same 5.5 or was it something else

The project, the excavation from Lagoons has been 5.5 million, budgeted for 5.5 million dollars for several years.

Okay, alright. So my other question is, when Rocky Ridge handled that project, were there other requests from them for additional revenue for expenditures that they encountered? Or was it absolutely at 5.5 million? Were they paid additionally for other issues that may have come up?

I'd have to take that by referral. Okay. Just to make, yeah.

Okay. I'll write that out also. And then I was informed that Polecat, one of the bidders, one of the three bidders, that the Board of Awards awarded them the contract, and then it was awarded to Rocky Ridge. Is that true?

I think there may have been some confusion. I saw some emails. What we did ask is a part of our procurement process is when we take something out to bid, we ask for a price, right, and that price is held for a certain amount of time. We did reach out to all of those who bid, Polecat being one of them, to ask if they would hold their pricing for a longer period of time in order for us to get through our legislative process and award this contract budgetarily we did not have budget approved until the end of march so we knew we were going to have to ask those vendors to hold their pricing because through our legislative process we knew we weren't going to be able to award them in time and get a contract complete at the pricing that they had provided to us Previously, based on that deadline date, so we asked them all to hold their pricing. There may have maybe been some confusion there. If pull cat thought that meant if they hold held their pricing, they were going to be awarded that contract. I'm not sure we can look into that issue. For you, this contract hasn't been awarded. We need to get through the legislative process of- Okay, but you're recommending Rocky Ridge. Yes, Rocky Ridge was the lowest bidder for this particular contract.

Because again, we had gone over the number of days that the bids were legal in other words according to our city code I think it's 60 days something like that and obviously this was back in December correct the bids were opened okay obviously we've gone way beyond the 60 days okay so I guess Mike let me refine my question Did the Board of Awards, when they met on these proposals, did they recommend that POCAT get the contract?

I can look into that, but I don't believe it's been gone through that process because we haven't awarded this contract. We need approval through this piece of legislation for the expenditure budget in order to award a contract. So we haven't been through that process.

All right, I'll send a referral on that, just to clarify, because again, I want to make sure that we all understand what happened. Okay, so now, at the Angola Road site, what is happening there? Because we want that to be restored. Is that happening now, and what is Rocky Ridge doing?

To my knowledge, there's no activity because there's been, I mean, there's been, there's a moratorium by any activity over there. Okay. And they have been in touch with, as they have an ongoing contract for one of our other spent line streams from the dewatering facility. Okay. And made sure with them that there's no material going to that site.

Okay. And then one final question. When Rocky Ridge, this last contract that Rocky Ridge had, was prevailing wage mandated that they had to pay the people, the employees?

The Lagoon project requires prevailing wage in a PLA because it involves contractors operating heavy equipment on city of Toledo property okay so that one does and is rocky ridge submitted proof that they are paying fruit that they have paid prevailing wage to have gotten the contract award they would have had to yes

okay all right and then one final question is you know regarding this issue in east toledo are there other places that that the spent line can be put so we can avoid these these health issues obviously people are troubled just like we had the same similar complaints over on angola road are there other locations that can be utilized that would not affect people's health and welfare

Yeah, within the spend line rules, you're allowed to have staging areas where you can store the material while it's being prepared to go on agricultural fields. So once you get into the agricultural application, the material will be staged at near the point of application.

So hearing these letters from these three people, is there something that can be done to remediate the situation for them, for the residents of that area, in your opinion?

Rocky Ridge has told us that they are moving material out of that site. There should be no more material going onto that, and they're moving it out to agricultural fields as the weather permits.

OK. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Madam President?

Thank you. I actually was going to say that I don't know when the last time anyone has been past there, but I went past there last week and they were moving it out. And I was there the week before they were moving it out. And it was actually wet every time that I went over there. I never saw anything blowing anywhere. It's unfortunate that the residents, I know they have gravel out there as well. I did see that so that and when trucks were coming in and out, I saw gravel. But I want to go back and talk to Patika and Andy because these are the experts that we have and we hire here at the city and discuss this a little bit further because we are not on Angola Road. We aren't anywhere. We're awarding a contract to remove spent line from our drinking water so that we can have um good drinking water and i want to go back um patika what is your expertise that you what field are you in um i have degrees in environmental um management and operations okay andy commissioner mcclure what are what is your and i'm sorry director what is your expertise

I'm a professional engineer, graduate science civil engineer.

Okay, so we rely on our experts here to tell us what we need to do. I do know Director Cottrell has been out on and I do know that they are removing this. But the issue that I'm having is that We are in a situation where we need to get our spent line contract awarded. And whatever needs to be done to remediate that, I am okay with working through those issues. I am not in the mindset of the clown show we had last year. So I'm glad we have cooler heads and we're talking this through without a, let's be clear of what it was. There was an actual campaign going on and we had a lot of residents giving misinformation at times. We hire the staff, qualified staff, to answer our questions and to come to us and give us the information that, quite frankly, I'm a teacher and my degree is in business education. I don't know anything about this, but I do know that Director Bannister does. I knew Director Stevens did. And I want to make sure that we're keeping in mind, we have our experts here to have these conversations and to talk this through. And if we don't trust them, we can go find somebody else. Ohio EPA is out there. We have yet to hear what they have and we can call. We have them at arms reach. We can call and talk to them about this. They have not rendered a decision on this at this point because they're trying to wait on us to figure it out. Because we have our experts here. So I want to get this done. I want to get this done without the clown show we had last year because I think we won't have that this year. And I want to make sure our residents are understanding and are educated with the appropriate information so that we're not doing these things without letting them know. Yes, I do believe that people should know what they are doing there, but if I'm not mistaken, this was a salvage yard prior to this, correct? Was it a salvage yard on Consol? I'm not sure if anybody. I'll do it by way of referral. What was it before? Because I want to make sure that people have the information that they need and that they're understanding what is in their backyard. We don't want people to feel unsafe. We don't want to put out misinformation. So I'm appreciative of the administration. and the experts that we have on the administration do we rely on them to give us good information yes but we can also fact check as well so um that's all i have to say i'm definitely want to make sure that we do this right

Thank you, Madam President. Just a couple points of clarity. I don't think anyone's questioning their professional recommendations. It's more about the procurement process to make sure that it was open and transparent. And I guess as the lead clown from the clown show last time was not the intention but wanted to make sure that the community has a voice and they deserve the best regardless of where they live. And I guess to that point is my questions more around the procurement process and the Board of Awards and things along that nature, but mostly around debarment language in the contract. But I defer to Councilman Komais.

Thank you, Chair. You keep mentioning that this is the lowest bid. I know that we often go with lowest bid. In this case, what would make best a factor in this?

what's the difference yeah as a part of our procurement process that is usually look you know we follow the guidelines lowest and best I think you hear us say that a lot when taking into consideration a contractor you know we typically look at the lowest price first and then we look at those qualifications we look at maybe past experience that we've had with them situations where we need something done in a certain time period where other contractors who may have bid on that have projects and aren't able to get something done in the time period that we need. So there are several factors that we look at when we're examining that sort of best category.

So in this instance, what would be the factor? The recommendation is Rocky Ridge because they're lowest, and I unfortunately don't know what the next bid came in. Is it so drastic that it makes it impossible? What would be the best part to get you to go with the middle bidder?

I think there would have to be some factors on the lowest bidder that didn't allow them to meet the requirements of the bid. I got you. So if we say we need something done by a certain time period, we need you to haul away X amount of spent lime, da-da-da-da-da, and they're able to meet those requirements and we don't have any factors that...

Show maybe some disqualification of those certain factors then Would it be possible for us to see notes from people who Reviewed the bids in this case. Is that a thing that we can request? I

Yeah, I can see if there's some information.

I'll take that. And then also, I know that they have the, and it was mentioned that they have the contract at the dewatering facility. Is that where it is?

Yeah, that's correct. The Spantline Dewatering Facility.

Yeah. So can we see what that bid was and see a financial analysis of that contract, essentially? You know what I mean? I just want to see how the... I think you and I have, quite frankly, Chief, talked a lot about how maybe another contract that we're looking at ended up costing us more money than what the original bid was. So I'm just curious to look at that. I want to see if it is so drastic, right? So I'd appreciate seeing those. I'll put those in as referrals. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Councilman, it's not too Thank you, and I appreciate counseling coal mives Issues that he's raised and again. This is where I'm going. I just want to make sure That on the current spent line project when it's still in effect or will soon end If the contractor was paid five point five million or were there additional requests for additional expenditures that they encountered and And did we pay additional money? Because it's one thing to have something at 5.5 million, and then we get hit with another million dollars of requests for payment from the same contractor. That's what I want to know. I put that in a referral answer, but I just want to make sure that we have an understanding.

Sure, of course. What we can do is we can go through our SAP system. We can work with purchasing to grab the contract and see what other supplementals may have been awarded on that contract. I don't think we have any of that information here, so we will have to take it by way of referral. And we also want to double check, of course, with finance and our purchasing division for that.

okay excellent thank you thank you mr chair great thank you and just to kind of piggyback on what councilman comas was saying um we did very similar lowest and best and that best kind of gives us the option i did check with legal we do have that option um if this um if The body so chooses, for example, like Republican priority, right? Lowest and best, perfect example. In terms of the procurement process, my concern is when we're thinking about the contract, is there any, what I would refer to as debarment language? So debarment language, I don't expect you to know because I've asked legal they're checking into it So I haven't we have I have a list of questions by referral Already into legal that they should be getting back to me Monday or Tuesday and the reason I'm asking about debarment language Is basically violate any local laws we can pull your contract, right? So if you have zoning issues, you didn't it's like unfortunately we're talking about the same previous vendor. It's like The game that can't shoot straight like it seems to be thing after thing after thing so which kind of bothered me maybe the most is uh... outside of the community impact and you know having you know children at the end of play has been c o p d and having you know all of the into a neighborhood issues that we saw in south toledo uh... is seen a local company trying to scale up at the benefit of the neighborhood and it's me that seems the capacity is a concern if they have to truck stuff out to a different state. So they can't do it locally, so then that tells me there's some scalability concerns. So I want to be very professional about this, because at the end of the day, Even if whomever gets the contract, what I want to make sure is that regardless of who or where they go, that the impact in the neighborhoods aren't impacted as they were, as we saw in South Florida and now in East. So it seems like a repeat of the same. And I've said this multiple times. To the administration to everybody who listened to me in previous director and you know costing us an extra couple cents or quarter per tonnage or whatever is well worth the Investment to ensure our neighborhoods are being kept safe and healthy and our residents are being kept safe and healthy So in terms of debarment language it makes a very tight contract that if you violate zoning issues, if you violate health issues, pick a law in any department, you can lose your contract. And because it seems like we're always the tail wagging the dog and we're chasing ourselves around in a circle, and I want to avoid that. So whomever gets a contract that's very clear, concise, there's no putzing around. that we can, if you don't perform as necessary, we can pull your contract and award it to somebody else without going through litigation, without, obviously, they have a good cause and some sort of cure period, but at the end of the day, I'm tired of the goalposts being moved all the time. And that's part of my frustration. And that's how last summer escalated, because it was one thing after another. So as I said, I do have a bunch of questions that I have in referral to the law department. But I want to make sure that, and I appreciate your honesty about who the contract award, because I was getting very different signals. So if it's the administration's intent to do that, my concerns have been, well, justified. So, and I want to make sure that whatever happens that it's done in a professional manner and it's not played out in public like that's very embarrassing especially for me um so that being said um any other questions from this body oh i'm sorry councilman i'm sorry thank you mr chair i i just also want to state for the record i'm not questioning anyone's professional abilities i believe that we have excellent people including all three of you that are sitting at this table

But my job is I'm responsible because I'm elected by all the citizens of Toledo to make sure that we're being fiscally responsible and that we're being environmentally responsible. So I hope that my questions weren't construed as insulting or looking down. I have total respect for all of you. You guys are seasoned. veteran employees but more importantly you're very strong leaders and you have been always ethical with us but I just want to make sure that when we're confronted with information that we're able to ask those questions and get answers so we can report back to our constituents that we've done our due diligence as elected officials so thank you thank you mr. chair

Okay, seeing no more questions from this body, I will open up to the public. I will actually give you five minutes to discuss. Evan, is there another sign-up sheet, or do I have it? I think I have it. Oh, I have it. All right, I have the sign-up sheet. Mr. Rainbow, I will put your name in there. You'll have five minutes.

Bob Reinbold, 5162 Pawnee, Toledo, Ohio. I agree, you have a very great director here, well educated. right person in the position, and you have a great commissioner. So I'm not questioning any of that. But since I've been in those positions, I also know that sometimes everything doesn't get told to you up the line, and it's good to know and reach out and have public hearings like this and hear that. I wanted to comment on a couple of things. On Consol Street, it's my understanding, and I have pretty good knowledge of that, that the EPA was contacted and they were given 30 days to remove the product off of there. I thought they had. It sounds like they haven't. So that might be an issue. I did, in that case, I did contact the Environmental Service Division of the City of Toledo and got a response back that they saw no violation. So EPA was contacted and they did require it to be removed. I don't think they violated them. They had them required to remove. I think one of the advantages I have of being a citizen now is I hear different things and I want to throw out some things. I don't have to be as diplomatic as elected officials do. My understanding on this, and Councilman Komai said it too as a reference, it needs to be the lowest invest. We're talking a 41 cent different cubic yard. 41 cents is what we're talking difference. Now there might be some setup fees that make a little bit difference, but basically they're both pretty close. but we're dealing here with a company who isn't even here today. I assume they knew about the public meeting, so they're not here to comment to us, who we've already had problems with in Consol Street. We've always had problems with at another site. Maybe they're the best. Maybe they are the best. I can't argue that. All I know is that Polkat out here got a notice in early January. They got a phone call from the city of Toledo saying, you've been awarded the bid. I need for you to follow up with purchasing. And two days later, they got an email that told them what they had to do. Two weeks later, they got a call saying, whoops, we made a mistake. That wasn't what we meant, or that isn't what we're going to do. It's been to a five-person committee, which I assume is the Board of Awards, and they recommended going with Polecat, but this is the first time in 28 years the person said that he's ever been overruled. I assume by the Board of Ords. So I don't know what happened. Polkat apparently accepted that, left that, went away, and then about two months later, they're here, they can tell us, they got another call saying, oh, We're back in the mix. We want to get your information from you. We need for you to say, are you going to still hold your bids? So I think going back to the deputy mayor's comments, that's when actually the intent was to extend out the bid period so everybody could do that. So there's just a whole series of questions. And I think the right questions have been asked by Councilman Kolmeyer and maybe others. Let's look at what the Board of Awards said. Let's look at the information. You have options here. Both companies are very close. Maybe both companies are great companies. Maybe there's even the possibility of splitting the bid. I would look at that, splitting the bid so you have two companies fairly close together and then monitor what each one can do, a little bit of competition. But that's just kind of my thought. I am an engineer. I'm not as qualified as these people in front of us here. So I certainly defer to them in that. But I wanted to pass on the background information that I have heard and that there too. And I am concerned, my final concern, and I think Councilman Martinez hit on that. Wherever it goes, whoever has it, it should be farm applied. I just want to make sure we're not taking something out to the Angola roadside, which I think there's still some type of a... A restriction or some type of an order that they have to clean that up. I don't see that happening I would have problems awarding the bid to a company that hasn't complied with orders that are already there But again, that's not me. Thank you for the time Thank you.

Mr. Rainbow always a pleasure and just to note I did request the um that five panel Recommendation through law. So once we get that I will forward it on to my colleagues So on this, we have Zach Gray.

Zach Guy.

I'm sorry? My last name is Guy. Guy, sorry.

Zach Guy, 7450 Union Shelby Road, 45356. On here, here on behalf of Polkat, just to clear the air here, we were called in October of last year and asked to come up here and bid this job. So we did so. We threw a number, an honest number, on December 9th. January 21st, we received a phone call. by a gentleman with the city of Toledo. He said, this is not a contract, this is a verbal. You were chosen unanimously through our committee board of, I'm assuming it's five people, I believe what he said. We want you to go ahead and move forward and we want you to get your vendor's license through the city of Toledo. He sent then an email following up with that, stating that this was not an official contract. and but he did want us to seek a vendor's license at this time we did so the following day january 22nd we acquired that it was then sent to him saying hey you know we did what you asked thanks i'll be in touch three weeks later we got the call he said hey the upper management upper echelon chose to go with rocky ridge sorry we spoke too soon So we accepted it, moved on. But in that period of time, you know, the issue was if we passed on a substantial amount of work because we were under the assumption that we were going to receive potentially $11 million worth of work in two years. So we kind of pumped the brakes on some stuff that we would have pulled the trigger on had we not been told that. So once we finally passed this issue of, hey, we didn't get the job, we're moving on, about a month and a half later, we get another call. It says, hey, are you still willing to hold your price? Yeah. According to what we were told, we had to hold this price for 120 days. I believe somebody said 60 days. Contract said 120 days, to the best of my knowledge, when we bid the job. I said, yeah, I think we have to at this point anyways, but yeah, we would hold our price. He said, that's good, because your name's back in the hat. Just like that. And I said, well, OK. Well, I guess we'll wait. It's because it's kind of been a cat and mouse back and forth. So the question for us coming up here for this meeting isn't, is Rocky Ridge a better contractor or are we a better contractor? It's not that. The prices were close. It's just there's got to be some transparency here or better communication. You know, had we never got that phone call and that email asking us to go do those things, I mean, we came in second place thousands of times on bids, you know? You win some, you lose some. You walk away, you bid another job, you fight another day. But we were 100% under the assumption that this was going to get pushed through. And that was where everything has been kind of misconstrued on our behalf, not... Not whether who's the better contractor. They were both good bids. Rocky Ridge was a lower bid. But once we received that phone call and that email, that's what planted the seed that we were gonna get the job. So I think it was somebody said we got a contract. Nobody said we got a contract. Obviously the contract hasn't been awarded. It was a phone call followed up by an email saying that we were looking like we were gonna get the job. Please go ahead and get your vendor license set up.

Gotcha, thank you. Just quickly, you do other work in Northwest Ohio or? Yes, yeah. Where?

We do a fair amount of work in Bowling Green. We do a lot of line work in Bowling Green. We do all over, I mean, all over the state. We're from up here down to the Ohio River.

Well, thank you for traveling. Do you come from Cincinnati?

No, no, no. We're about an hour and 20 minutes south of here.

Oh, okay. Well, thank you for attending tonight. Yeah, appreciate it. Madam President.

Just a second, thank you for attending. If you don't mind, maybe after this, you tell me who sent you that email.

Yeah, yeah, that's fine.

Okay, thank you.

Yep, thank you.

Chesky, you good? Thank you. Okay, anyone else to speak for against this particular contract or anything related to this contract? Going once. Going twice. Oh, Councilman Serato.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be brief. In light of what the gentleman from Polk had indicated, again, we need to see what the record was at the Board of Awards because this is not good information. I mean, we really need to address this and have a transparency take place. So I just wanted to reiterate that. Thank you.

Okay. All right. Meeting adjourned.