Public Safety & Criminal Justice Reform Committee - Regular Meeting

Five present. Also present, Councilwoman Dr. Jones.

Thank you. First call of our Criminal Justice Coordinating Council Crisis Response Team update. Thank you for being here.

Can you hear me? Okay.

My name is Annie Minton. Hi, everybody. And I'm Lieutenant Kelly Russell with the Crisis Intervention Team Coordinator for the Toledo Police Department.

and I am the Behavioral Health Criminal Justice Coordinator at the Criminal Justice Coordinating Council, and we are here today to present on our Toledo Corresponder Program. I apologize to everyone in attendance. I didn't have slides done in time that we could put them on the big screen, but all of you should be able to follow along with the packet in front of you. We're going to go pretty surface level, so you should all be able to follow along even though you can't see the slides. The co-responder has really been developed as a result of community need. In 2022, Toledo Police Department reported 611 incidents involving 632 individuals that require the use of force from officers. Also beginning in 2022, Toledo Police Department began collecting data to track if an officer perceived an individual was experiencing suspected mental health issues. So of these 611 incidents involving 632 individuals, that required the use of force from officers, 130 or 21% were suspected to have mental health issues. So this means that more than one of five cases that required the use of force from officers involved an individual with suspected mental health issues. The National Alliance of Mental Illness, what we know as NAMI, has found that people with mental illnesses are over 10 times as likely to experience use of force interactions with law enforcement than those without mental illness across the country. So this is a need not just in our community but across the country. So there was a kind of a new opportunity for Lucas County in 2024. In 2024, the Mental Health and Recovery Services Board opened the door for a co-responder unit in Lucas County through its levy promises. In their levy endorsement request to the Toledo Chamber of Commerce, the MHRSB stated that the MHRSB proposed to use a portion of its new levy funds to address behavioral health treatment and support service needs of inmates at the Lucas County Correction Center. That's the jail that's just around the street. and to support the development of a law enforcement behavioral health co-responder program. So with this promise, we finally had the momentum we needed to move forward with a co-responder program. So that's kind of where the CJCC, where I work, got involved through the Connect and Protect grant, which is on the next slide. So after reviewing the MHRSB's request, I reached out to the executive director of the MHRSB and asked, you know, where is this project now? Who have you worked with? Where is it at? How can the CJCC get involved in order to actually establish a co-responder program? This was one of my long-term goals as the BHCJ coordinator because we know that law enforcement is the resource in our community that is used to respond to crisis situations. But we also know that law enforcement is responding to situations that they are not trained to respond to. It's better to have a mental health clinician respond to an incident that involves mental health issues. So I had identified the Connect and Protect grant opportunity through the Bureau of Justice Assistance as a funding source that we could utilize to actually establish a co-responder unit. So after receiving permission from the Mental Health Board, I reached out to TPD through Kelly and the ZEFT Center through Courtney Burrow. And we really got to work saying that this was something we actually wanted to establish. So then I put together the grant application and we were eventually awarded funding in October of 2024. So that's kind of how we got here. But I've been saying co-responder unit a lot and I'm not sure if everyone actually knows what that means. So the actual definition that the Mental Health Board got from the Colorado Behavioral Health Association defines a co-responder program as a program that pairs law enforcement officers with behavioral health professionals to respond to behavioral health related calls for police service. The teams utilize their combined experience to de-escalate situations and help link individuals with behavioral health services. So the good thing about a co-responder program is when you have an officer responding to a scene, you also have a co-responder with them that are arriving at the same time. So they're dispatched simultaneously, they arrive at the scene together and they're able to, they have different options available to them by having a co-responder there because clinicians are more aware of community resources and are better able to deescalate crisis situations. Um, so on our next slide, why a co responder unit? I have de escalation diversion from the criminal legal system and connection to appropriate behavioral health services. So the first one de escalation, um, when officers are arriving to these situations involving individuals with behavioral health needs, um, individuals with behavioral health needs might not always be able to comply with officers orders because they might not always understand them. They might be in the midst of, um, a behavioral health crisis where they're kind of have symptoms that officers might misinterpret as not following their directions or as acting out or posing a threat. Whereas clinicians understand different symptoms and different actions and behaviors and are trained to actually deescalate situations by building trust with the individual they're working with and responding to the crisis that is at hand, which is often not a threat to public safety. Diversion from the criminal legal system, this means that we're not taking individuals that are in behavioral health crises to the jail. We're instead taking them to what is an appropriate response to them, whether that be the ZEF Center's Behavioral Health Diversion Site, whether that be another treatment provider, But we're trying to deflect them away from the criminal legal system, because we know that if we take individuals to the Lucas County Jail, they will be able to access some services there, but that's not the right environment for an individual in crisis, and it's not necessarily a place where they will receive the ongoing care that they need to be a meaningful member of our community. And that last piece is also kind of connected to that connection to appropriate behavioral health services. So whether it's an individual that has been using illicit substances or whether that's an individual that is experiencing their first psychotic episode, we're going to make sure that they are linked to appropriate treatment services. And then our next slide, I have, hang on. is part of the co-responder program so we are going to have two co-responder units each unit will have one clinician so the two behavioral health clinicians will be hired by the zeph center they will ride along with toledo police department officers to respond with officers to calls for service Something unique that we will be doing with our unit that we didn't realize we needed until we went on a site visit to Denver. We were planning on having one assigned police officer for each unit, so it would be one individual that would always be working with the clinician. We went out to Denver and we were like, this is what we were going to do. And we rode along with co-responders there. And what they do is they have their co-responder clinician jump into a different car with different officers every single day. And they liked this approach because they were building awareness of the co-responder unit across the department because the co-responder was interacting with different officers every day. And what happened as a result of this was different officers then became aware of all of the crisis services that are available in a county. And they also got to see how effective the co-responder was. So this built a lot of support within the department for what the co-responder was doing. So we will have a similar approach where every day the behavioral health clinician will ride along with a different Toledo Police Department officer The TPD officers that the behavioral health clinician ride along with will have CIT training. CIT stands for Crisis Intervention Team. It is a 40-hour training that the mental health board provides to officers and also security guards. It's basically a crash course in how to respond to individuals with behavioral health needs. It is a great resource that our community has. We have been at the forefront of CIT training in the state of Ohio. But 40 hours is not the same as being a behavioral health professional, and that's why we still are pursuing this co-responder program and not just relying on CIT training. And then another component of the co-responder model will be we will have a case manager who will support the co-responder unit by connecting individuals to service when they are no longer in crisis. So when the co-responder interacts with individuals, they will de-escalate that situation. They will try to have an appropriate disposition for that individual and will make an attempt to connect the individual to services. But then let's say 24 hours later, two days later, the case manager will then reach out to that individual and attempt to connect them to services long term. This can be things like housing. This can be things like food assistance, not just behavioral health needs. This is a typical case manager that exists in the mental health system already. And then my last slide I have, how does the corresponder unit work? So the mental health clinician will be riding along in a car with the TPD officer. And then officers will radio the corresponder unit if a call comes through the CAD that has a mental health component. When this happens, the corresponder unit will drive to the location of the call. The TPD officer that's part of the unit will assess the safety of the scene by completing a criminal justice-based assessment. And then after the TPD officer has said that the scene is safe, the behavioral health clinician will assess the client and identify the most appropriate response and or setting for the client. And then 24 hours later, two days later, after a significant time has passed, but still close enough to the encounter, the case manager will follow up with the client to connect the client to the community to any community resources. So that's all I have for today. Kelly, do you have anything you want to add?

I just wanted to add that the Toledo Police Department fully endorses this idea. I think it would be definitely a great opportunity for us to offer services to those that are in acute mental health crisis that they may have called 911 or their caregiver or family or friend. A lot of these people that are in crisis took years and years to get to this point and too much expectation is put on the police to solve the problem within five minutes. So I think this is a wonderful opportunity.

And I'll just briefly add that Kelly has done some ride alongs with Courtney Burrow from the Zeph Center. where they've tested out this idea by having both of them in the car responding to calls for service. And they both have been very successful in connecting individuals to service. So we're really excited to see what this co-responder unit will be when we have hired people to actually fill the roles and are not just relying on Kelly and Courtney.

Thank you for this presentation. This is something that is needed so much in the community and the city of Toledo having the opportunity opportunity to have someone that is trained to deal with mental health issues one of the questions I have most of them you answer as you go through your presentation one what type of training and I'm sorry before I go any further I want to thank all our council members for being here our council president Williams is the Vice chair of this committee, but she cannot be here because of a previous commitment. What type of training does a behavioral health responder or clinician have to have to be a part of this program?

Yeah, so this is something the ZEF Center could probably better answer. I don't know if they're here.

Come on down. If the ZEF Center is here, it can answer that.

That's okay, they may not be here. But they have to at least have a degree in social work, and then they have to have their independent licensure. And then between TPD and ZEF Center, they will establish a training curriculum. So the co-responder, the mental health clinician, will kind of get a crash course in law enforcement techniques from law enforcement. And then again, the law enforcement officer will already have that 40-hour CIT training. They will also receive additional training from the ZEF Center on the mobile crisis unit.

You talked about the... With what's going on with the clinician riding along, does it seem to make much of a difference if they're riding with the officer or if they arrive independently? Does that seem to have an effect on what may be taking place? Will the clinician always ride with the officer or will they always arrive separately in their own car?

So this example of the co-responder unit is one clinician per two parts of the city. We have a central district and a south district.

So two for the whole city? Yes. Okay. And they'll be in a different car every day?

Correct.

All right. And when will this program start?

So we have a tentative launch date of July 1st. For those of you that don't know, we are reliant on the federal government approving a few different components. The federal government has been very interesting in the grants department. They've been a little slow to approve different things as priorities are changing on the federal level and as they're reviewing their priorities um so we believe that we will be able to launch on july 1st but this depends on us having a budget revision for our grant and a few other just like um administrative things that unfortunately we have to wait for the federal government for um so we're aiming for july first start date but we do have some time built in if that doesn't happen but we're hoping for july

You studied this program in Denver. Yes. How did Denver give you any type of timeline as to how long it took for them to start seeing a change in the way the community was responding with mental health issues? Did it take a year, three years? Was there any kind of, did they keep where this kind of starts seeing the turnaround of this program have an effect in that city?

They would love more co-responder units. Behavioral health needs in the community are increasing year after year after year, so they didn't have any concrete stats. I think you're asking if the co-responder unit made any difference in their calls for service, yes. Behavioral health needs in the community are increasing countrywide just because since the era of COVID people are in crisis mode more and more. And so they would definitely want more co-responder units. So they didn't have any concrete stats to show a decrease in the number of acute mental health crisis.

And I'll add, they kind of started pretty small like we did with a few co-responder units. And I don't know exactly when and how they expanded, but I know they went, they have increased the number of co-responder units they've had over the years. I think that they would say they probably had a pretty immediate impact. The individuals we talked to were very community focused and really saw the Corresponder Unit as an opportunity to connect with the community. And we would like to have that model as well where every call for service is an opportunity to Let community members know what the unit is, how it works, and to raise awareness within the community of this resource so that when people are calling 911, if they know that they're calling for something that could have a behavioral health component, they know to ask for the co-responder unit or they know to ask for a CIT trained officer.

Councilman Sarantzu.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I've attended National League of Cities meetings, and other cities have embarked on these same programs, and they work very well with the police department and social workers. So my question is to the lieutenant, is there a particular shift that we have at overriding increase in mental health calls for the police department? Is it daytime? Is it nighttime?

Believe it or not, most of the calls are around dinner time between 5 p.m. and 7 p.m. We did look at targeting the co-responder unit to work within the afternoon shift. But unfortunately, the quality of people we are looking for, social worker, behavioral health therapists, they really want that day shift job. So Zeph knows that, you know, our priority. Preferably, we would like those afternoon hours, but at this point, because there's such a shortage of social work type people in Lucas County, that basically we'll take what we can get. We just want the best to work with us.

So they would work the first shift. What hours would those be, 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock?

Probably mimic our roll calls. So depending on the needs of when we need them, it would be 6.30 to 2.30 or 7.30 to 3.30. We have two day shift roll calls that go out.

And the grant only allows us two social workers?

That's correct.

Okay. All right. Thank you, Lieutenant. Thank you. It's a wonderful program that you're presenting. Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman Saratsu. Councilman Melton. Thank you, Chair.

Yes, I echo those comments. I was going to ask about volume, but some of those questions were just asked. I'm curious, you know, I think about behavioral health, and it's to a layman, right, which is a fancy word for someone who doesn't know anything about it. It can be kind of broad and maybe even vague. I am drawn to... some of our residents with autism or on the autism spectrum? If someone shows up non-verbal, is that?

Yes, so intellectual disabilities are included within the umbrella of behavioral health.

I'm just thinking about, I don't know this, but I think maybe from a TPD perspective, I just can't imagine the complexity of that personally. And I've seen some different things in policing, whether it's bracelets, I've seen like different like necklaces with like a particular identification marker essentially. How in the past were you engaging with these residents? And I mean, this obviously seems better. I'm just curious, how did you do before?

Yeah, absolutely. So it takes a village, right? So like I mentioned, it's not going to take the police five minutes to resolve the problem. We just had one actually right down the street on here on mom has called us 55 times since February and the crew that actually goes to this young man's home who's autistic, 16 years old, mom can't handle him. He's a big guy and he's not taking his medication. Uh, so he's out of control, punching holes in the wall, ceilings, punching mom, carry sticks around, carries weapons. My fear, was that many opportunities to get in front of police officers 55 times, what might happen to him or what might happen to the police officer? What might happen to mom, right? So it needed some interventions. And that's when it takes that village. I got Lucas County Board of DD involved, CPS involved, and it was seven of us in a constant meeting for a week. Well, finally, we had some interventions where mom got the help she needs. She didn't have the intellect capability to understand how important his medications were and how important that if he didn't take those, he was, you know, decapitating out here in the environment. We were afraid for him and someone he might harm. So it took all seven of us to come up with a plan and successful interventions, and mom is finally relieved. And this just happened yesterday, so I can't give you a statistic how it's going to work out, but I am confident that the plan we have in place is going to work.

Sure, I mean, if you think 55 calls in one case, and if there's...

Since February.

Yeah, right. I mean, so, okay. No, that's interesting. I suppose the most helpful, I guess I should have known that people with disabilities is covered under behavioral health. That makes a lot of sense to me.

I didn't know that, so you're not alone.

Yeah, interesting. Okay, well, it's fantastic. It really feels like, you know, innovation, right? Like we got to take new approaches to emerging problems. So thanks, Chair.

Thank you. Housewoman McPherson.

Thank you, Councilman House. Thank you for the presentation and explanation, and I think this is a good work, this co-responder. My one question is, first of all, because you said social workers working in the daytime, then would that co-responder be on call for emergencies that may occur during that 7 p.m. to 7 a.m. hour?

So the co-responders that we're going to be hiring through this grant opportunity would not be on call, but the ZEF Center does have a line that law enforcement can call into. They have their own mobile crisis unit, and they are always available, I believe, 24-7. to take calls from officers or to meet officers out in the scene. They do have some staffing concerns, so they're not always fully staffed and able to go out immediately. But they are always available to answer calls. And the ZEF Center is who we are partnering with. So it's not the same resource, but it's pretty similar.

And that's what my next question, follow up. The difference between the self-centered, who you're using right now, and these two persons.

Yeah.

Is the training the same? Is it different?

I believe the training will be a little different because they will have more of a background in law enforcement actions because they'll actually be riding along with a law enforcement officer. So they will probably be called to scenes that are... slightly more potentially dangerous. I don't want to say dangerous because that is not the case, but the bar is a little bit higher for what they could handle with a law officer present than what a mobile crisis unit can do without a law enforcement officer present.

That's my concern because these two are only going to be available during the daytime. That's a concern because of the intense training that they will have. And I know we do have nighttime, I don't want to say incidents, but nighttime events of that nature where that co-responder could very well make the difference in that situation. So being that, I get it, it's the grant right now, it's the way it is, but I really, I would hope that we could look into expanding

the two in the hours so we're not just locked into daytime yeah in an ideal world in the two years that we'll have with this program we will be super successful everything will be fantastic and then everyone will want to expand the unit so that we can have that nighttime coverage so that's definitely something that i see as the next phase of this program and then um councilman hobbs had

kind of ask the question, but I'm going to ask you by referral if we could get some of the data from Denver as to how it started, where they are, just to have some of the positives and some of the negatives just from Denver.

Absolutely. There have been a lot of studies on their program, so I'm happy to send those along. I also have CIT statistics from Toledo Police Department that kind of show when activity happens at different times in the day, which I'm also happy to share with all of you.

I would greatly appreciate it, and I'm sure all the council members would like to To have that information. So I'll put the referral in and thank you so very much. I think this is a step in the right direction for the city of Toledo because we have had several I don't want to use the word incidents, but we've had several where we're dealing with persons in crisis. And a lot of times, you said it, police officers may not be able to read what is actually going on. And at the same time, it could save not only that person, but it could save a police officer also. So I'm elated and let's get this started and let's get this training. Let me ask one more question and then I'll be through. On the, you call it IT training? CIT training. CIT training. The CIT training that our police officers receive and the CIT training that these co-responders receive will look the same?

Sorry. So the officers that are in the Corresponder Unit will have already had the CIT training. Okay. We haven't talked about whether or not we want to put the clinician through CIT training. I think that's probably redundant. But they will have officer training from Toledo Police Department.

Okay. And thank you for working so hard to make this happen. Greatly appreciate it. That's it for me. Thank you.

Councilwoman Kramer.

Thank you, chair. Thank you so much for your presentation. I think this is fantastic. I have two quick questions. You said the grant period is two years. Is that correct?

So we are actually currently in the grant period now. It was originally a three year grant period. We received a one year extension so that made it a four year period. I think I said two. But so we have one year of planning and then three years of implementation, which is kind of now like one and a half years of planning. And then we'll have two years of implementation and then we'll have like three extra months.

Okay, and then how are we going to measure the success of this program? Because I'm imagining that you're going to be, that we all will be asking for this grant to be extended if it's successful. So how do we know if it's successful or not?

Yeah, so we have different metrics. There's the disposition of where individuals are taken after they are in contact with law enforcement, whether or not they are charged with offenses. We'll be looking probably at recidivism rates. We'll be looking at connections to services. So if an individual actually followed up with a behavioral health provider, how long they stayed with that behavioral health provider.

Can you think of any other metrics that we'll be tracking?

Just generally use of force by officers in these situations. no that's that's great i know sometimes it's like every case is different so how do you but there has to be something we can do to kind of say yes this is successful one of our strengths as the cjcc is that norris is a part of the cjcc that's the northwest ohio regional information system they do all of the programming for the different criminal justice applications in the area so for the jail for the computers that are in tpd cars So we'll be able to create new applications and pull data from existing applications pretty seamlessly.

I just want to comment that it's often difficult for law enforcement to see success on these because of my bad friend HIPAA. HIPAA, I try to see, you know, are they still in their rehab? Are they, yeah, I can't tell you anything, it's HIPAA. So it's very frustrating for law enforcement that we're trying to help and make sure that they don't reoffend, but we have no idea because of HIPAA if they're successful or not in their treatment plans.

Does that make sense? Yes, completely. Thank you very much.

Councilwoman Jones.

Thank you, Chair. I'll be quick. I just most of my questions have been answered from questions from other council people in your presentation. First of all, I'm very thankful for this program because that was one of the things that I've noticed, especially with the rise. And you said that officer, as far as with covid and mental health and things of that nature. Just seeing that rise in the interactions with law enforcement, it is important to have this. And thus why some of the questions that I've had was regarding data. So I know since 2022, TPD has been collecting that. I don't know if by way of referral or if you know those questions, what are the stats?

So that particular statistic that I included in this presentation is actually no longer tracked. They were using a certain data provider at that point in time that they're no longer using. So they have different statistics now for how they track interactions with individuals with behavioral health needs. But because it's different, we can't really compare year by year. But I am looking into how they are currently doing that so we can have more of an analysis. But that particular statistic is no longer tracked.

When did that stop being tracked?

I'm not sure. I applied for the grant in 2024, so by that point in time.

Okay, okay, because that was the other question, basically between 2022 and 2024, you know, what was going on. Okay, so we don't have longitudinal data with that. So by referral, I think you said to provide the actual metrics and ensuring that it coincides with what TPD is gathering as well. In regards, did you mention the amount of the grant?

It is $550,000. Okay.

Okay, and how is that broken up? So I'm assuming that's not just the two clinicians.

So we went on a trip to Denver where we met with individuals that had established a co-responder program there. So we spent, I want to say, between $7,000 and $9,000 on that. The remainder will be going to the ZEF Center to pay for the salaries for the co-responder clinicians. Okay.

Okay, so remainder of that. And are they keeping their own metrics as far as how they're hiring, qualifications, demographics as well, and everybody has access to that?

I believe the job has already been posted by the ZEF Center, and they've received applications.

Okay, okay. Yeah, that's why I was just wondering what has been going on since the grant to now. Yeah. You said about a year and a half of planning. Yeah. And that involves course travel and then the Zeph Center. So how does that accountability look like when how often are you checking in with Zeph Center?

Yeah. So we have regular reporting that we have to submit to the Bureau of Justice Assistance. So that reporting is done Probably quarterly. So we check metrics then. And then we at the CJCC have a grants manager that tracks compliance. She does all of our financial reporting. And we also, when we first have a grantee, we do just some basic, we do a site visit where we monitor kind of all of their financial bookkeeping and making sure that they have processes in place.

uh... to make sure that the organization is doing what they say they're doing with the funds that we're giving them uh... as well as just being in compliance with federal requirements uh... so we're we're pretty uh... stringent with our monitoring so does that also include uh... because we're having uh... as well as law enforcement going out uh... many have the clinician well the behavior specialist is there any amount of money that's going towards maybe their mental health as part of this grant

That's a good question. I believe that we envision the co-responder that's in the car with officers being a resource for the officers while they're driving along to check in on the wellness of the officer that they're with and also because they're kind of will be stationed at a certain precinct that they'll establish relationships with different officers there and be a resource for officers.

And is there someone for the behavior specialist?

I don't know about that, but I wish the ZEF Center was here to answer that, but I can find out and let you know.

Okay, I think that'll be important because we want them to be in a good state of health while they're out there as well. And last question in regards to the partnership. So they'll be in the patrol cars every day. How are you going to establish that they have a good relationship, or how does that selection process look?

yes i think a lot of that is in the hiring decision uh... we kind of saw in denver uh... that it's a certain kind of person that needs to be able to both mesh with police culture, but also stick to their clinical background. And so it's an interesting mixture of someone that can blend in, but also be willing to kind of go against the grain when it's necessary. So during the hiring decision, we will be working with TPD to make sure that they're the right candidate. They will have the ability to ask questions during the interview as well because this really is a partnership between both of us. So we want to make sure we have an individual that works with both organizations.

I definitely agree with that. We don't need conflict in the patrol car and then taking them out on the street.

But it will really be on the individual corresponders to be able to work with people from a multitude of different backgrounds.

Okay, perfect. That's good. All right, well, thank you very much. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Councilwoman McPherson.

Thank you. She brought up a good. So this interview panel will consist of TPD, ZEF Center, somebody from the community. I'm asking because we're dealing with

Yeah, I mean, that's not something that we had discussed, but it's something that we definitely can.

So you haven't put your interview team together yet? Okay. I'm going to ask by referral that we find out we know who are those that are on that interview team because not only is it important about the person who you hire but also TPD and that person I'm hoping is from toledo maybe not so that a community person is also on there to listen and to ask questions also because this person will be out in our community absolutely okay thank you you are a part of the

Criminal justice coordinator.

You are part of the criminal justice. You're the coordinator for that. Yes. So what is your background? Give me a little bit.

Yeah. So I went to the University of Michigan where I majored in political science and history. I always had a focus in criminal justice. Okay. And then I graduated in 2022. And I began working at the behavioral health as the as the office manager at the CJCC in 2023. While I was working there, I learned a lot about the criminal legal system. And then I have my own history with mental illness. So I'm someone with lived experience. And when the job became available for the BHCJ coordinator, I was promoted to that position. And I've been in that position since 2023.

And background with social work. Any background? I don't have any background with social work. Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you all for being here. Thank you for this. And we definitely would love to keep the updates. And we are really praying for the success of this program. It is extremely needed in our community. So thank you. Next, we're going to have Toledo Police come and talk about the multi-district substation update and then TPD standard operating guidelines discussions. specifically update on the officer who dealt with the, or slammed the handcuffed girl and the officers involved in the comments that were made to the youth a few weeks ago. Thank you, Chief Trenley, for being here. Thank you, Chief Craw, for being here.

All right, good afternoon. I go ahead and start with the police substation or community station as we're calling it updates. We are currently in the, I guess we'll call it the negotiation phase for the lease of the building that we're planning on being inside. We're very close to signing the lease. There's a couple things that are taking place in the background, and a lot of that revolves around some expenses that need to be paid for some upgrades to the building and parking lot area there. So our hope is within the next week or two, we'll actually have a signed lease, and then we'll be able to begin doing some remodeling of this station to fit our needs. And that's going to, you know, whether it's a... just the upgrades of the interior we need to do some redesign of the entryway for officers while they're there to create a space for our community to come in and interact with our officers and then we have some IT requirements that are going to need to happen there So we are progressing on this. Hopefully we'll have something signed here shortly and we can at least start the renovations. My goal was to try to be signed in sometime before the end of the summer, but depending on how long the renovations take, it could be fall or even early 27. so the latest you're thinking is probably early 2027. that would be the latest i do believe we'll be able to get in this year still the renovations i don't think will take a extended amount of time but we are still working towards staffing we actually are having our command staff meeting 18th of June that we're re-evaluating our department and looking at how we staff our department the units we have with some of the anticipated reduction in staff reduction in officers we're going to be seeing through retirements and class sizes so we are going to look at doing a complete overhaul of our department that would actually begin January 1st of 27 Chief do you believe we will

As far as staffing, will we have someone there that will be able to take reports?

Will that be a part of the staffing?

Because right now it's either Scott Park or downtown.

So that was part of our goal, and unfortunately we suffered a little bit of a setback with the – tow lot not passing for having somebody take that over because that was going to provide us with some officers that were records that could be used to take reports at some of our other stations as well so we are now trying to pivot from that thought process and see how we can how we can staff that station. We also do envision that to be utilized by some of our community service officers that work those adjoining council districts. We also do envision this as a station for our district units to be able to come in, complete reports, use the facilities, and be a presence there in that neighborhood.

Councilman Melvin.

Yeah, thank you, Chair. The tow lot thing has me wanting to ask a couple questions, but I feel like that might bring me into some interesting, like, you know, counting FTEs and doing all of that work. So I'm going to avoid that for the sake of time. Be interesting to get back into it, though. What's the, it's exciting, right? We're making progress. I saw through the referral back to Councilman Sorrento, the number looks pretty good, too. I think that seems like a positive. Curious about signage, you know, we're zeroing in on a building. What do we think about signage?

Yep, so that'll be part of our renovations and you know, making sure that it's you know sign that's clearly visible to the public Obviously we will have dedicated spaces for our police cars to be there So we'll have some patrol cars out front there at all times so it will be It will be visible we don't

have a name for it right now uh... so we're still working through that uh... i'm just i'm happy to help i have a help with some counseling melton substation no no no that's not what i meant i've got it down but it was very funny it was very well that was very well done uh... yeah no that was good uh... because it's so so funny literally the next thing on my paper here is name which is to say i don't want to i will not hold you accountable for our our council agenda here, but it does say substation again. And I just think that that's not the word we wanna keep using. You and I have talked about that plenty of times. And so you said community station or something like that. I think, I trust that you'll find something, but I think to the degree that we can reframe what is happening here is gonna be really, really helpful. I could not stress enough prioritizing the signage in the renovation planning anyway. because the second you have a car in the lot and the second you have a sign on the building, to most people, it might as well be open. So as you think about moving drywall and electricity and getting a toilet put in where it needs to be inside, to 95% of the people that see the building, it might as well be open. And so I know a lot of the neighborhood would find that as a positive development, so I just love to see that prioritized. I certainly think, you know, regardless of timeline, it'd be interesting to kind of see what the day-to-day operations look like. I'm not going to get into the nitty-gritty here because I just heard you say you're working on that, on concepts and kind of who's going to be in and out of there, what departments make sense. So I'd love to hear more about that. But overall, it's an exciting update. I'm looking forward to hearing more. Thanks.

Councilwoman McPherson.

Thank you. Just one question. I'm a visual. You say Jackman and Sylvania. Are we talking the old Arthur Treacher's building? Which building are we talking?

So we're actually talking, there's a family video there. There's right next to it, right to the right of it, or I guess would be east of it. There is a multiplex, I guess an office building. and there's a restaurant in there right now, so we're gonna occupy the most western office space there.

Okay, it's across the street. Okay. So my barbecue truck can stay where it's at. No, I'm only... I don't want O'Henry to have to relocate. No, I was just trying to visualize where you actually were because that is a big corner right there and a lot going on in that area. Thank you for that visual. Yes, I am excited also for the community station, or whatever the name, not Melden Station, but whatever the name of it is, because I think it solidifies what the community was asking us for. And it is actually happening. I'm not going to call out one person's name. I'm just going to look at him over here. It's happening. And I like the figures. so we have room to grow and to do some other things in that. So thank you for being diligent and staying on this, and thanks, Meldon, for pushing the button.

Councilman Saran too.

Thank you. Mr. Chair, but this is very good news And I would just hope that we can the remodeling doesn't seem to be too complex So hopefully we can get this done and open soon before the end of the year because the residents have really wanted this and they've waited a long time and we've had the Collins station closed so I appreciate all the work and whatever council can do. We've already appropriated the money, so it's just a matter of getting the right people in there to make the changes and obviously have the chief and your people make decisions as to how you're going to staff it and so forth. But I appreciate all the efforts. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Councilman Meldon. thank you chair forgot something sorry we're talking about signs so much given that the number came in a little lower than what we budgeted for I wanna encourage you to be aggressive on the sign. And I'm almost guaranteeing that this would be the one exception we all might make to our current sign code that we just changed. Because that's a real serious thing. I mean, we have a new sign code and what kind of sign can go on a building and what all that looks like. Look, this is different and I would be more than happy to defend to every single person that comes through a zoning and planning meeting who's telling me no don't take my sign away why this is different does that make sense yes sir i just want i just want to be really clear like let's be creative and ambitious with what that sign looks like i'm not trying to like you know bring up seinfeld references to kenny rogers roasters chicken with where kramer can't go to sleep at night i'm not trying to mess with the neighbors okay What I'm saying is visibility, because it's not on the corner, right? If it were on the corner, I would feel a lot better. A monument sign gets a lot done. This is in just a skosh, and so I just want to make sure that we think about that. And the sign code's a real thing, and if we have to work around that and get creative through that, we should do that. That just hit me. Thank you, Chair.

Councilwoman McPherson.

Yes, and so you're speaking about that, Melvin, and so I'm just going to ask because maybe our community may not understand why you're emphasizing about the sign and codes. If you would just share, because everybody is not aware of the different signs and how and what we, so if you would just share with the citizens, just.

Sure, okay, yeah, I'll take it.

Your light is still on.

I'll take a hand. No, so we, I'm not the plan commission director, but we went through a process to really rethink what we think about our signs. I mean, you drive up and down Secor, that's one that comes to mind for me. It's a pretty wild smattering of every possible sign you can think of from 1930 to today. And the sign code that we changed was to bring them all in line with a unified appearance. It's more appealing visually. It's more modern. There's a lot of reasons to do it. The irony, of course, is that the old district substation D. Michael Collins sign would have been conforming because it was a lower monument sign. What I'm trying to say is if we wanted something a little more visible maybe on the building, If that's not in line with the code, then we could maybe make an exception. We want to be careful to not, we want to throw that needle between visibility and public safety and not being an eyesore just because. But the context there is that we changed the sign code to really bring some unification. So hopefully that's clarifying, thanks.

Thank you. Okay. Chief, can we have, I know I have, I'm not sure about other council members, but I've received numerous emails and phone calls As to what the update is on the officer with the young lady that was slammed while she was handcuffed. And then most recently, a couple of weeks ago, the officers who address young people in the community. And we all know what was said. And so do we have updates on those situations?

Yes, sir. So I'll start with the original incident that occurred where The officer had to use a takedown technique on the 15-year-old female that was involved in walking in the street. So that has finally been completed by our internal affairs. It took a little bit to schedule all of the interviews, a little bit longer than we were hoping, but including the young lady involved and her mother. We brought her in and interviewed with them and the officers. And there is quite a bit of... Videos and audio transcripts that need to be gone through so they have it done. They're gonna get it to me here and Beginning of next week. I will review that and I anticipate us releasing it sometime next week So we will have a conclusion to that particular case

Will that release chief just be amongst our officers or will this be with the mayor, our chief of public safety, press conference?

So right now we're envisioning probably doing some sort of news conference, if you will, interviews with media to release it. We'll have obviously the investigation, the entire file will be released. to our media partners that have asked for it and that way everybody can kind of take a look through the investigation and see where we came to the conclusions that we did come to and Then there will be opportunities for you know questions from the media as well Okay, can you give us a update on the most recent?

Couple of weeks ago with the officers Sylvan in that area Yes, sir.

So You know, obviously, we're talking about, from a policing standpoint, two completely different types of situations. You know, the first incident involves policing. The second incident involves something that does not belong in policing or any form of, you know, government community relations. So it's, you know, reprehensible what was said. Some of the actions that were taken immediately, the main offender from that officer was immediately removed from his specialty assignment and reassigned. There's an investigation that is going on to the officers involved's credit. Basically, they have submitted their reports admitting to what they did and admitting that there is no actually no uh... possible explanation for where this would even be tolerable uh... sold those things are happening right now i'm actually hoping to conclude that investigation next week to uh... so we can kind of these out in guitar community informed of the discipline is going to happen in that case uh... there are some certain things that we have to do because we need time we're going to have an investigation that results in discipline We have to make sure that we're, you know, crossing our T's, dotting all our I's because this will be subject to, you know, the union's involvement. And a lot of times there will be, you know, grievances on it, arbitrations on it, depending on the level of discipline. So that is something that we're doing right now. You know, also what we've done as a department, you know, we've had a lot of internal meetings and command staff and talking and looking inward to make sure that as a department, we're not putting in anything out there or any of our training or anything along those lines that would actually to believe that this kind of behavior would be tolerable and I'm happy to say that no it's not and in fact it goes against everything we do train everything we do stand for as a police department as a you know as a city so it's a very unfortunate incident you know there will be consequences when you violate our policies and procedures and so that type of discipline will be coming forth

Thank you. Councilman Melton.

Thank you so much. I know we have a lot of community members who want to speak, so I'm going to keep my questions brief. I have several. I'm going to try to narrow it down to one. You know, Chief, it's encouraging to hear you say that everything you said, it's reprehensible, it's against everything we stand for. You said many, many things. There's an idea that I think is really, I try to stick to it a lot because it takes the people out of it sometimes. And it says, every system is perfectly designed to get the results it's getting. My question for you is, what specific training did that violate?

Sure. So, I mean, it violates all of our community relations training. It violates our communications training on how we communicate with community. It violated a bunch of different policies that we have as well and procedures. We are looking at different training as a result of this incident. And I don't... I don't truly believe this is a training failure. This is something that they were never trained to do. So I think this is something where the officer is either caught up in his own emotions uh... caught up in a little bit of back and forth with uh... some kids that i will tell you watching that video i would i commend the young man that actually tried to step in and say hey whoa whoa don't don't say that don't go there uh... i thought that was you know a situation for us to actually build on our relationship with the community not Degrade and actually take three more steps backwards for everything we do to positively engage our community positively interact with our community it just takes one of these incidents because Unfortunately in our world our social media our regular media the good things that happen on a day-to-day basis are not

covered as much or shared as much as when something bad happens or when there's something negative that happens that seems to be our society right now yet no i hear that and i think all of that the second after answers it's true it that's true everything yes that's true it's true very profession strip health care behavior mental health strip education strip everything uh... one bad thing caught on camera can ruin all the wonderful things that happen i understand that I'm asking, and you kind of answered it a couple different ways, but the training piece is what I'm really after. Because the inverse of what you're saying is that one instance caught on camera can really spoil all the good stuff that's happening. There's another side to that one thing caught on camera, which is, well, if this one thing was caught on camera, how many times did it happen when there was no camera? Just from a community perception standpoint? No, that's fair enough. That is just how it is. And so my question about training is about Um, how do we, and I'll be more specific, is there particular training that our officers understand interacting with young people is different than with, say it was me, a 42 year old who that number's getting higher and higher, a 42 year old, not looking like I want to interact with people versus a 15, 16 year old young person. What does the training do to say we're going to treat these people differently?

Yeah, so that is part of our curriculum in our basic academies. So whether it's our juvenile justice portions, it's our procedural justice portions of it, our communications portions of it. Those are all things that happen during the academy to talk about the different levels, whether juveniles or somebody that with special needs. Those are all different avenues that are covered in our training through this last couple processes Last couple incidents if you will we started looking at some additional training that we're going to be looking to give to our officers and you know We you know, whether it be cultural competence training We're looking at some difference there's one training that uh... so i had our training commander start putting together a a program basically for us to look at are twenty twenty seven training in service rate so we we do a lot of in service training during the year unfortunately with an organization the way we are our training is set in january for the entire year because it takes a long time to get six hundred officers through all of the training We can do some one-off trainings right now that we will be doing here shortly with some of these officers that have been involved in some of these incidents. But as a whole department, we're looking at a completely comprehensive training plan for next year that's going to specifically address some of these incidents and some of the professionalism, customer service. There's a training that's called SIT-D, which is really interesting in the fact that it goes into You've been trained in communications, you've been trained in how to do all these things, but this takes it from a different avenue of what happens when you're in a situation where your emotions and everything else is happening that now flips that switch a little bit where you're not falling back on your training necessarily. There's a disconnect there. So we're looking into that as well. We have our ICAT training that we started for the entire department this year. Not everybody's been a chance to go through it yet because, like I said, it takes from January through December to get all of our officers through. But that is a communications and tactics training that has helped to reduce use of force, to help downplay some of these incidents and have a step back and kind of slow things down a little bit.

It strikes me that maybe another update could be future training, changes to training within the department. I'm not trying to make your agenda, Chair, but that just could be a future topic for discussion. I only have one more question, which is, and this is going to sound maybe like a dumb question, so hopefully I'm sure no one's surprised. Is it against the law to walk in the street? Yes, so... No, that's good. Yes is fine, actually. Because it used to be against Toledo Municipal Code to play basketball on the street. And a few of us changed that for exactly this reason. The thing that's interesting to me is that I think it's unfortunately a bad idea to walk in the street, personally. I think it's unsafe in some ways, which is why I wish I had sidewalks in my neighborhood, but I don't. And so this morning at 6 a.m., I went for a walk in the street because that's what everyone does in my neighborhood. They all walk in the street because there's no other place to go for a walk.

And if I could just clarify a little bit. So in that situation, so what the code really says is it's illegal to walk in the street where sidewalks are provided. So if there is no sidewalk provided, like in your neighborhood you're talking about, then it is not illegal to be walking in the street. There are certain guidelines on how you're supposed to walk in the street and against traffic and against you know As close as you can to the curve all those things.

Yeah for traffic safety pedestrian safety reasons that makes sense That's a good distinction. It strikes me that maybe we should refine it to say where Sidewalks that have been paved in the last ten years and the grass has been mowed are provided Because not all sidewalks are provided the same and in different neighborhoods. Here's all I'm saying. We recently ran into a situation, recently is my time on council, where I had a parent who said, the police got called on my children. They were playing basketball on the street. And then we changed that rule to try to stop that from happening. I'm just curious. Again, I'm all about systems change. I appreciate the training and all the innovations, and that's important stuff, but I'm just like, what system can we change to get a better result than we're getting? So that's the nature of my questions, and we can maybe brainstorm about what we do. Thank you.

And so, Councilman Meldon, I did do a whole piece that I was going to present to Council about changing all of that, but presented it to Law Director Dale Imch last week. He went through it, called me yesterday. And the reason why we can't change those things, because that's a state, and we can't supersede state law. So it would take a change at the state level then for us to be able to change it on the local level. What we had changed and what you were doing with was city, Toledo, that type of thing. And that's why that was able to be changed, because I did do that. Talk to him.

Yes, sir. Just one quick thing. I hear that. I think the thing that's tough, that reminds me of changing speed limits. It's very similar. There are some that were allowed to change at a local level and some that are guided by ORC. and i think that where's where our orc is out of step with our community safety priorities we might need to fight the state on it you know so i'm just saying i understand that distinction i think sometimes it's worth passing a law change locally that's in violation of the state and letting that work itself out because that tension that dissonance could be creative and help us all find a better solution i appreciate everything you're saying and i don't disagree i just think maybe that's where we have to say Let's do it anyway.

Thank you. Thank you. Councilwoman McPherson.

Thank you, Councilman Hobbs. Thank you, Chief, for coming and presenting about the substation and giving us updates on the two... tragedies of the city and our community. I am glad to hear about the investigation being completed and the investigation of the others and the police officer that was dealt with. quickly with the kids over by red and white. My concern is for, and I get you're looking at retraining and that kind of thing, but cultural competency is a big issue for our police department. And I say that because we have a lot of police officers that come from Delta and Pemberville and Those little communities out there with the cornfields and they don't deal with too many of us on a growing up basis. And so when they come to our community as adults and put on a badge, they deem themselves better than some of us. That's the real problem. And that incident over tragedy over at Red and White, that was one that deemed himself better than those kids that were over there. You cannot train a person that has lived a life and that has been taught and it's been embedded in them that they are better than somebody else. They'll go through the training, but it's just like my mother taught me to respect adults. It's always in my head. Because I was trained, I was brought up like that. For a man or a woman that has been brought up and raised that they are better than a black person or poor person you cannot retrain. So my concern is how then do we deal with these police officers because it's going to happen again. The saving grace is that they wear the Watchdog badge right now, the whatever you want to call it. The microphone that records everything. Thank you. That's our saving grace. Because it's been going on for a long time. And if we look at some of the police officers that have now come forth with their truth. Their years in service has not been long. They're young. And when Councilman Sam said that about being 40 something and what you, okay, I'm 66. I talk to people differently, not according to age so far. I talk to them out of respect, whether it's a 15 year old, a five year old, or a 60 year old, because that's what I was taught. So my concern is trying to retrain because that's what you're talking about. Retraining police officers that have been trained for life. to behave in the manner that they behave see that was nothing that was nothing new for that police officers he he's probably said that in worse many a times before he just got caught this time And I don't know, and I'm going to say, Chief Krall, I don't know if we've ever did something when we've had officers that behaved in this manner. Because what I would love to see is those officers to come and hang out in our community, not as a punishment, but as a living, learning experience. Because that's how you make them better. not training, letting them live the experience. Because he said, in the ghetto, you don't even use that word no more. Come on. I think, and I don't know if we've ever done that. And see, thinking out of the box. Because see, if you think that is so bad, and y'all moved him someplace else, Now he needs to come back here. Because he needs to walk with those kids that he insulted. He needs to walk with those kids. He needs to learn and have a conversation with those kids. He needs to come to the schools that are in that area and hang out with those kids. Because they're living wherever they lived is not based upon them. That's family. You live where your mommy and your daddy go. They didn't choose that, but because they are there. And so I'm just concerned as we go forth, how do we really retrain bad behavior that they've grown up with? Because it's been said by the mommy and daddy that it's okay. And because mommy and daddy said it's okay, it's okay now. Even in my work, it's okay. Because see, when I come to work, mama told me to respect you. And I will respect you. Even if I don't like you, I'll respect you because that's what my mom and my daddy has taught me. So you understand what I'm saying? It carries over. And it just don't change because you didn't put me in a class and you showed me some other stuff. You don't. That's a concern for me. Thank you.

Councilman Dr. Jones.

Thank you, Chair. I'll have to leave in a little bit, so I'm just going to say this, but for the record, ditto to what Councilwoman McPherson has said, but I've also put in a referral to provide some data cross-referencing the police officers who utilize the Toledo Police Next Door program to relocate. and those involved in hostile interactions. I'm wondering, because especially with this last incident, for that comment to come out talking about the neighborhood, that gives me a sense that he's probably not from Toledo or from a part of Toledo where he doesn't have to deal with this. So then also looking at that, Chief Krall, myself, and President Williams did request the details of the training curriculum that the officers go through. So we would still like that as well because there needs to be some rethought of what training is. And I'm thinking some ride alongs, kind of like training day, not in the essence of a crooked cop, but to really have somebody that is trusted in the neighborhood, bringing on a rookie to ride through the neighborhood to thus build that trust. And then it goes on from there, because you can only learn so much from a book. It's the real life interactions and being within the environment in which you are supposed to patrol and protect. So I will put in that referral, but also to reevaluate those recruits through the Toledo Police Next Door. Because of cuts, if we're bringing in people from outside of the city, then there needs to be some strenuous looking into, as far as their background, of course, the mental health training, references, anything of that nature, because this will keep happening, especially if there's no due diligence when it comes to this recruitment. So again, just really thinking about what does that look like moving forward. Because summer is here and we're gonna have many more summers as well as many more days. And if this keeps continuing, it will come to a point where there's just no trust and no regard. And it's gonna keep repeating, we're gonna see the same thing every day. So it has to start somewhere. But first with that data point, I will be very interested in the curriculum as far as details about what that involves when it comes to this training. and then really just breaking down from there after that. Thank you, Chair.

Council President Williams.

Thank you. Definitely want to apologize, Chair. I did have another obligation with Partners in Education to teach, to help kids learn to read. Thank you, Chief, and thank you, Chief, for being here. one thing that i wanted to ask chief chief trendly and chief crawl you guys can't answer this together because i don't know when it happened um the provider that we used to do and i'll go quick because i know you guys want to speak the user that we have our psychological tests changed when did that what year did that happen for recruits

Yeah, I believe it was just a year ago that happened because the psychiatrist we were using retired and no longer wanted to do it. We had no one bid for it. So we use the NTN platform now.

Okay, is that like a person or how does that work? How does the psychological test work for recruits to come in and be going through a psychological exam?

Yeah, so it involves, and this is more of an HR question, but I can just tell you from past experience and how it works. So it involves taking a written examination and those are scored and looked at for a variety of different, whether you want to call them red flags or inconsistencies, and then it does, culminate with an in-person interview that goes over those results and ask questions further just along you know trying to probe into your background your mentality or how you are seen or fit to be in the profession

Okay, and this was, you said you went out for big for that?

HR went out for big for that.

HR went, okay, so I'll get to HR and dig into that a little bit more, but I know we have been doing some work. Deputy Mayor Abbey and I have been doing some work on finding some trainings with you guys so that we can get some good training going on there. One training that kept sticking out to me that I did not see a module on was youth development. Now, trust me, I'm a teacher, so I went through a whole gambit of youth development, and I know at the stages of life where their frontal lobe don't work, and I honestly believe that because of the interactions of our officers with our youth, that should be something we could possibly look at putting a module in to even touch on. I mean, it doesn't take, you don't have to really go into depth to really understand the stages of life of youth development and child development.

um because um that is something that i feel like is lacking in the modules i did not see it if i'm wrong you tell me so i am told it is in one of the juvenile justice but we've actually um before you came we are looking at a whole uh 2027 in-service training and one of our courses is actually titled Child Development and Juvenile Crisis Response Training. It integrates child development, adolescent behavior, youth crisis intervention, and juvenile legal considerations in our in-service training.

And I actually did that training before, I actually did that training in an educational setting for younger teachers so I know that it would be beneficial and I actually was trained through Akron Children's Hospital. And it actually is a group and they may still have that program and it was for the free for me, but I I think that. Of course you can't train someone that has been taught that not to do that, but you can. Because at the end of the day, we don't go home with these people and they don't go home with us. So we don't know what they do at home. The issue that I'm having is because I actually live in that neighborhood where he said enjoy living in poverty. Well, I live in my grandmother's house and she's lived there. She lived there for 51 years and then I've had it for eight years and I just live around the corner. So I guess I'm enjoying poverty because I'll never leave that house. So it bothered me, and it bothered me so much so because I walked a red and white too. So I was glad to see that the officers were dealt with swiftly, but I'm still concerned that there's, and I said it in the news as well, there's a system that is in place with the Brotherhood of Police where, and you know, I'm okay with taking blowback, from having these comments because at the end of the day, I'm held to a standard in life. We all are held to a standard in life, but when I go to God and meet my maker, and I don't wanna preach right now, but when I meet my maker, I don't want to go up to him and say that I didn't take care of people. That is what I need to do is take care of people and I get frustrated because we constantly have this conversation of interactions when the basic thing is taking care of people and police are headed to a different standard. I really get frustrated because the interactions in impoverished neighborhoods, are getting more frequently and with us being on this day as and we speak out about it we're targeted because we're taking care of people but we're actually talking to the staff to take care of people um it's frustrating to me because we're here again um and i and you know i respect both of you guys you guys are uh good people with me but at the end of the day everybody knows wrong and and I want the good officers to who take care of community to actually be able to do it and they're not going to be able to do it if we constantly have these interactions so I have been working with you guys uh and Deputy Mayor Arno behind the scenes to get this done but it's going to take a lot of time and effort to get this done but what do we do in the meantime So we've been working on this and constantly having conversations about this, and I am committed to tearing down a system at a time. And if it's teaching youth development with our new officers or teaching how to interact customer service skills are easy. I learned that working at KFC. So I'm going to stop talking, and I'm going to let the community talk, but I want the community to know that we have been working, but there has been systems in place for decades, far beyond my centuries, that we are trying to break down here, and it's going to take some time. So I thank you for being here today. Apologies, but I was taking care of kids today. So you guys would love to hear some feedback from the community. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Councilwoman Kramer.

Thank you share. I will be very brief. I was here in April listening to our community have a conversation and I am very saddened that I have to be here again for this conversation, but I thank you all for being here today. We've talked a lot about training and the training that goes into the day to day of our officers, but I know it is a very rigorous. standards to get into our academy and i know you talked about the psychological evaluation uh... you know i agree with my colleagues when they talked about people are coming from households that we don't know what they've learned since they were little kids and when they go home so what how do we uh... What do we do to check and see how they are before they actually get into the academy? I know we have a lot of physical tests, and I know you talked about the psychological, but if we could catch that before they get into the academy, to me, we could avoid having a lot of these issues.

So it is quite the process actually to be hired as a police officer. And one of the things, you know, those are steps. Physical fitness obviously is one component. Mental wellness and psychological profiles is another one. We spend an in-depth amount of time doing background investigations on uh... potential officers and and that runs the gamut between uh... not just criminal history checks but uh... where we look at they have to provide references and we talk to all the references but we also go out into the neighborhood that they live and we talk to neighbors we talk to other previous jobs and we try to do our best to try to get information on somebody uh... so that we capture those red flags early on uh... and don't hire and there's been people that Surprisingly, some people will step up and go, hey, I don't think that's gonna be a good police officer. I question some of their thoughts or some of their motivations and stuff like that. And generally, we try to skip over those. But even then, that becomes a tough process on the motivation of the person doing it. So sometimes it could be a former girlfriend, boyfriend, spouse, stuff like that. So there is a lot that goes into trying to hire somebody. Unfortunately, there is no way to completely look into somebody's background or to somebody's mind to say what they do think, don't think, how they will perform, how they won't perform. and that's kind of where the training comes into play and we watch them and our officers go through a lot of different scenarios through the Academy through the FTO program through all those kinds of things where we're constantly watching and evaluating how they act and We do terminate a lot of people from our FTO program and we do wash out a lot of people from our Academy based on a lot of different reasons It's just very hard Because most people are not going to come forward, even like employments. They don't want to answer questions because they don't want to get sued. So it does become difficult to get a clear picture of everybody that is coming into your police department.

Okay. Thank you.

All right, at this time, if you have something as far as the community, we want to provide you the time. There will be three minutes for everyone that wants to come speak. I'm gonna go right down the list, and this is your opportunity to come and speak concerning any of these issues that you may have. Everyone is gonna have three minutes to speak. I'm gonna start. If you need to sign a list, please let Andrea know so we can get you signed if you want to be called up on to be a part of this conversation. thank you again i had this meeting especially at five o'clock today so that those that are working could get off work and get here because a lot of times three and four o'clock does not provide working people the opportunity to come so this is why this meeting was at five o'clock today so those in the community could get off work and then come to be a part of this conversation all right number uh first person up is i believe this is um joyce singer Thank you for being here.

Do I need to state anything?

Okay, there it is.

I thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Joyce Singer, as stated. I am the chairperson and founder of Glenwood Park Neighborhood Coalition that rests in the Old West End community. And so we're very interactive with our youth. I wanted to just, I thought it was important to come and just to make a statement about the incidents that happened with the police officers. I'm encouraged to see that you guys take this very seriously and that the chief of police also is handling it in an appropriate manner. I just wrote something out that I wanted to share briefly. The latest encounters between TPD and our youth, particularly our black youth, is both disturbing and heartbreaking. It is without a doubt a misuse of authority and a misrepresentation of positive engagement that we expect our officers to display. I know it can be challenging dealing with our youth today. I get that. Our youth are different. And I am sure these types of incidents that the officers encounter daily can be very stressful and demanding. However, They are supposed to be trained to know how to de-escalate and not escalate the given situation. This type of behavior from our law enforcement is unacceptable and cannot be tolerated. As the gatekeepers of our city, and all of us are the gatekeepers, it does take a village. It's not just on the police to handle this. It's on all of us within our city to ensure that every citizen is being treated with the utmost respect and the burden of correction and expectation rests on all of us. But especially on the city government and the chief of police to ensure that such behavior will not be tolerated. And if it does happen, swift and appropriate discipline with sensitivity training will follow. And that's what Chief Cross said today that they are doing. I WANT TO PROPOSE THAT THE YOUTH AND POLICE INTERACTION SHOULD BE TAUGHT IN OUR SCHOOLS. I THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME TYPE OF PROGRAM WHERE THE POLICE OFFICERS ARE GOING TO THE SCHOOLS AND THEY'RE INTERACTING WITH THE YOUTH, WITH THE TRAINING, BOTH SIDES, AND THE PARENTS TO BE INVOLVED, BECAUSE IT'S PART OF THE PARENTS' RESPONSIBILITY AS WELL, RIGHT, TO TEACH THE CHILDREN. AS COUNCILWOMAN MCPHERSON SAID, THAT SHE WAS TAUGHT BY HER PARENTS TO BE RESPECTFUL. So sometimes, unfortunately, our children get engaged with situations and it escalated because that's the behavior that they've been taught, right? And so I'm thinking that if we could come together and come up with some type of program where we can, you know, engage and train, and I don't want to say train, but engage the parents, the students, and the police officers, and on the school level, that might help. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Singer. Thank you. Richard Arnold. Mr. Arnold.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak. It used to be that our pre-screening for police cadets was done locally. It was done by a local guy named Greg Forjack. He was a psychologist. I knew him for years. Well-respected in the community, but he retired two years ago, and on June the 12th, 2024, you signed a contract with NTN. I don't know much about it. They were the only bidder. It's called National Testing Network, and they are now in charge of screening our police cadets. So Given what's going on in Toledo and across the country, can we evaluate their performance? Can we look at how many people are they screening out? Is it about the same as it was two years ago? Is it more? Is it less? For what reason are they being screened out? Is it a psychological problem? Is it drug use? Is it past criminal activity? And can we use that information when we recruit new officers? Because we do need the new recruits. We're seeing retirements all over the country. So can we take a look at this national testing network and see what kind of job they're doing and compare it to when our pre-screening was done locally. And since I have that microphone, if anybody didn't see today's Detroit Free Press, waste company service gets trashed. Priority waste, which we've heard a lot about lately, they had to fire their executive director. Across Michigan, people are saying, get us out of this contract. So on behalf of the citizens of the city of Toledo, thank you for not signing a five-year contract with them. Just thought I would throw that in. Thank you for the opportunity to speak.

Thank you, Mr. Arnold. Mr. Harold Harris.

Good evening. I'm going to open the curtain up. I'm going to shine a light because I think that's exactly what we need. We have an issue with bad policing. I've lived in the city all my life. There's good officers out there. I would say 90% of them are good. But when you got that 10% that's bad, it spoils it for everyone. Officers wear that patch on their left shoulder, says Toledo police. When I served in the military, I wore a patch that said United States Air Force. I represented this country outside, on duty, off duty. And I think it's despicable for an officer on TPD to do what these two officers did on the north end and on junction in the inner city in that neighborhood. And the problem comes, as far as I'm concerned, since TPD is structured under a military structure. The buck stops at the top, and that means your command and authority. That means your safety director, ex-chief crawl, your chief of police, Trindle, your lieutenants, your sergeants. They're supposed to lead these guys on the bottom. These officers in these cruisers, the patrol officers, they're trained to follow commands, they're trained to follow policy. They're trained to take their orders from the top. So when we got things going bad on the streets of Toledo, I'm looking at the top. I'm looking at the guys in charge. For years, for decades, this problem has gone on. This is not just recent. This is not just April and May of 2026. This has gone on for years in this city. From Chief Krall to Chief Trendle and prior, these officers have operated, not all of them, like I said, that 10%. In my lifetime in this city, I know at least 300 officers, active, retired, lieutenants, detectives. They all know me, Harold Harris, and I've had good encounters. But there are the bad ones out there, and my thing is, when you're talking about police in that inner city and you're talking about the black community and the brown community you have these bad officers acting out police brutality excessive force officers that go into these communities disrespectful to the citizens in this community civil rights violations by these officers using profanity and verbal abuse towards citizens of this community racial profiling in our black and brown communities police escalate, they don't de-escalate when they make these stops. And I'm talking about the bad officers. Let's keep this separate. We got good and we have bad. We need change, and my look on it is we need a new safety director. We need a new chief. We need a new vision and a new mindset on police and in this city. We've had these guys in office. I respect Chief Krall. I don't really know Chief Trindle, but I've met Krall quite a few times. We had a lot of good conversations.

Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Harris. Mr. Morris.

Good afternoon. I'm back here again for the same thing, what's happening in our community. When does enough becomes enough? Back in 2024, we had an incident where a white officer said to a black female at the Wyler Homes, check the F up and take your fat windshelf back in the apartment. I had a conversation with Chief Carl about that. And I said, the woman had a right. to free speech his response to me was so did the officer but now he wants to penalize this officer for exercising his free speech i'm confused no officer on duty in uniform is limited in what they can say on duty. I'm from a family of law enforcement officers. I currently hold an Ohio peace officers training certificate. I've been in law enforcement, public safety, for a long time. To watch that video was upsetting to me. When does enough become enough? And I do understand that I'm not here to litigate the cases. The mayor and the chief condemned the language, and an officer was reassigned. Those are steps, but statements of disappointment are not reform. And reassignment is not accountability. Internal affairs reviewing itself is not enough to restore public trust. I am here to ask, when will the black community feel safe around white officers patrolling their neighborhoods? I'm going to make this real point and clear. Black people are not liked. We've never been liked. It doesn't matter the initials at the beginning of our name or at the end of our name, what positions we hold, where we live, and where we work. Law enforcement has never liked black people. Growing up in Charleston, South Carolina, I remember reading a book. And in the book, there was a photo of a family. It was from 1934. They're holding up a sign. And the sign said, police, would you please stop killing us? That has stayed with me my entire life. And I want to say to Chief Krall and Director, I'm sorry, Chief Trindle and Director Krall, our freedoms don't end where your fears begin.

Lori Hammond. Lori Hammond. No, thank you. Thank you, Ms. Hammond. Georgia Daniel. Did I say that right?

Good evening. I'd like to start first by saying we may have 99 problems in Toledo, but stopping young black teenagers as they travel through their neighborhood is not one. I'd like to say that there's an underlying pattern of racist and biased behavior in the Toledo Police Department. And when you look at who leads the Toledo Police Department, the buck stops with him. And if he can't control his officers, if he can't provide the right type of training, he needs to go. Now this is a teaching moment for everything, because I know we have a limited amount of time. But as it relates to black poverty, we have been an oppressed people since we have arrived in the United States of America. When you look currently at where we are, and I'm going to look at my page here, unemployment rate is twice as high for black people as it is for whites. Our economic access to wealth 10 times less than white people. Our educational system needs a lot of improvement. We operate under a system of oppression. Our officers should be trained to realize that and to act accordingly. There were a number of good suggestions given at the mic, but I didn't hear anything about really the young people. So I would recommend that a survey be conducted among our young people and ask them, how do they feel? Are they safe with the police? Do the police provide care for them? What would they like to see? And I would encourage the council and whoever else is responsible to do that. To do that. Last time I came here in April, they were talking about a hot summer. And I told the chief, he's in control. He's in control of whether we have a hot summer or not. I believe in our children. I believe that we can be accountable. I believe that we as a black community, a white community, a yellow community, a brown community, we will fight for the welfare of our children. At this point, I'm ill. I have been fighting for over 60 years. for equal justice and rights. And if I have to die fighting, I am prepared to do that for our children. And I ask each of you to look in the mirror. Are you prepared to fight for the future of our children? Thank you very much.

Vanessa Lynn. Vanessa Lynn.

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for the opportunity to make a couple of comments. They're not in any order. I guess I was just jotting down notes. I think we all have the capability of masking. So in training, you do what you do to get in. once you're in then the true person comes out. I look at this as a heart issue. I don't know how you train a heart in this situation. I don't know how you do that. Maybe there's a way with some kind of training but personally I don't know how you train a heart. It doesn't seem to be any love or compassion or empathy or anything of that sort that has happened in these last two incidents. This may be harsh, but the officers that were involved, I don't think they should be suspended with or without pay. I don't think that they should be on a leave of absence. I personally think they should be fired. Thank you.

Mr. John Bibish.

As much as every comment has been on an important subject relating to community affairs, I know I'm going to be the only person here that's going to be speaking about the police station, so I would appreciate if I'd be given a little latitude. I asked on April 16th if there was a project plan for the establishment of this station on Savannah Avenue. Is there? I understand there was a referral by council to the administration asking for it. Has it been received? Is that a no? Nobody knows? I mean, that's a hell of a note if that has not yet been answered. But it does relate to the question that I'm having because so far we've heard talk and we know that the movement of the station is at the 0% of completion. And we know that there's no go-live date on it. But what we also know is that on March 31st, Consul passed a budget where they specifically said they wanted $500,000 allocated for the opening of the station. That's general fund money. And that means that if that doesn't get done by December 31st, the money's gone. Okay, so timing is something of an issue with me. And the fact that there's no project plan indicates that it hasn't been given any priority, despite the fact the city council specifically said in effect to the administration, hey, we think this is kind of important. We want you to do something. Well, it appears that the administration doesn't agree. I'm imploring City Council to put the boots to this, to hold the administration accountable to get this project off the ground. I would be very interested to find out if even a penny of the $500,000 that's been appropriated has been either committed or spent to date. This is two months after the money's been appropriated. What's going on? Can anybody provide any answers to me on this? Am I making sense?

Councilwoman McPherson.

Yes, I'm sorry. I said all of that. Chief gave the report. They are in negotiations now. They have picked the site. We talked about the signs. Yes, they've given us a rough estimate of the cost. They've given us, they're in the process.

Well, that's the first question I asked, Councilwoman.

Yes, we have it and we're on it. And I asked where the building really was because I needed to know. So I'm sorry you were sitting there. Okay, it's in the works. They're signing the contract for the building. We've made out what renovations have to be done, technology, and all of that. And we're, as Councilman Sam Meldon, well, everybody didn't get that report. So that was a request from Councilman Sorrento. So he's going to give you the report, sir. Yes, we're on target.

Yes.

Doesn't have any, I appreciate this. Yes, that's why I said, I said I wasn't going to look at somebody that was in the audience, but it was you that I was really talking to saying, yes, we got it, we got you.

Wouldn't you find it odd that if this is so important they can't tell you when they're going to go live? Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. I don't want to, we're over the three minutes that should have been a lot of there, so I don't want to say anything. I think Councilwoman Pearson covered it really well, so I have nothing else to say.

Michelle Williams.

Oh, I didn't even say Michelle.

Testing. You can hear me.

I am Lincoln School Coalition CEO President.

Our area in Englewood, we are part of Englewood.

Our area is from Lincoln down to Bancroft and between Detroit and the railroad tracks. Thank you, Andrea, for coming to our meetings. Dr. Jones, she comes to our meetings. And we're looking forward to having Pastor Howes at our meeting. And we meet every second Monday of the month at Mount Branch, Liberia. So I'm inviting the police officer.

The incident that happened, I live right around the corner from those people.

And if I would have been out, they wouldn't have had an opportunity to say what they said to those teenagers. Because Englewood, and I have the plan, the Englewood community plan, look it up. Our Englewood has a high rate of educated people. I am a retired educator, highly qualified educator. I have my master's in education. I came back because this is my neighborhood. And in that situation, I want to build up my neighborhood. This situation that happened around the corner with the girls is that they live with their uncle, and they were taken away from their mom.

So he raised in a house full.

I think it's like five or six kids in the house. If the police would just come down the street, because they do not come down grand. I guess they just come to that to Sylvan and keep on going around to the reach Detroit.

Please come down the neighborhood.

Stop. I have a big side that the city of Toledo gave me my side because they have fixed up my house. An Eaglewood neighborhood revitalization, suspicious area project, and they are building up that area We're home ownership businesses and programs for our youth. So have them to ride down our streets. Stop and talk to our youth. Get to know our youth. Get to know me. Because I will tell you about the neighborhood. And I'm not going nowhere. Thank you.

N double A C P president, Ms. Darlene Sweeney-Newburn. Thank you for being here.

Well, thank you as well. Good evening, Chairman Hobbs, Vice Chair Williams, and members of the Public Safety and Criminal Justice Reform Committee. Can you hear me okay?

Pull your mic down.

You can hear me okay now?

Most people can hear me whether I'm close to a mic or not.

I am here on behalf of the NAACP. As you know, we have been actually quite vocal about the officers, their conduct, and the treatment that we have observed of the black community, in particular our teenagers. I am happy to hear that there will be some sort of conclusion in the next week because that was one of the NAACP concern as to when we're going to get feedback and what's going to happen in this particular situation. So we are going to be actually looking forward to hearing what's going to go on next week. The NAACP As this committee discusses crisis response in the multi-district substation initiative at the Toledo Police Department's standard operating guidelines, we must also address a larger issue, and that issue is the culture of the department itself. I did hear a couple council people even talking about that culture. It must be addressed because it is true that trading alone is not going to cut it. It's not going to do it. Policies and procedures are only as effective as the culture that enforces them. Recent incidents involving community interaction have raised legitimate concerns about whether respect de-escalation and impartial policing are consistently reflected throughout the organization. We know that there is a pattern here. We see the pattern here. We know that it dates back a long time ago, probably before some of you were born. but it is still present. When similar complaints come to surface, the public naturally begins to question whether these are isolated events or indicators of deeper systemic problem. We know that this is a deeper systemic problem, so it's going to need a deeper systemic answer. Building additional substation That's fine, but it will not by itself build public trust. Trust is earned through accountability, transparency, and a commitment to treating every resident with dignity and fairness. The NAACP encouraged this committee to view The review of standard operating guidelines, not simply as an administrative exercise, but as an opportunity to evaluate whether the department's internal cultural aligns with the value of constitutional policy and community partnership.

Thank you, Ms. Sweeney. That's three minutes. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you so much. Reverend John Jones of, wait a minute. Yes, Reverend John Jones of Hope to Legal.

To Chairman Hobbs, to Vice Chair Williams, to each of these council members who are here today, I really did not want to stand up today and talk. I've been trying to be quiet for a little while related to this, but the latest incident which took place on the Fitchland and Detroit neighborhood, is my neighborhood. 1960s, my grandmother started a Toledo Christian Training Center about a half a mile from where the interaction with the officers took place. In 1972, our church was formed at that same corner of Fernwood and Detroit. So for me, this now becomes personal. It was personal before, because I love my children, but it really became personal when an officer can say what they said, and it's not worthy of repeating, but when they can say what they said about our neighborhood, it's a struggle. And I really need our police chief, counsel, and others to really understand the heart that I'm dealing with. Numerous men and women have done phenomenal work in this neighborhood. John McKissick pastored at St. Paul Baptist Church. I.J. Johnson pastored across the street of Fernwood and Detroit. Dr. Samantha Adams and her family had a church right in that same neighborhood. up and around Grand, where Robinson School currently sits. The legends of the Negro Leagues literally played ball at Swain Field. I could talk about a whole lot more, but the greatness of the neighborhood was intentionally vilified by these officers. Maybe they didn't know who these people were. but they intentionally vilified the neighborhood. And it is that that is offensive, harmful, and based on their intention, it is borderline unforgivable. I can't mess up with God, so I still gotta be able to forgive. What can we learn? The officers did this intentionally. And it revealed, as my sister said, it revealed their heart. It revealed more than what they think. but it revealed what they feel. What can we learn? We can learn that our children were the excellent ones in this instance. One young lady actually said, they doing this because we black. And the response was, no, no, no, that's not it, by the young man. What can we learn? For as much as training is discussed, it reveals that the system is broke, Councilman Melvin. And it finally reveals in my last 10 seconds that we have a problem of leadership. Not just the police chief, not just the safety director, but it goes all the way to the top. And I'm not talking about anybody, but we have to ensure that leadership takes the right steps as we move forward to hopefully begin a better day in our community.

Thank you. Mr. John Dorn.

Thank you. Chairman, vice chair, council members, it's a great honor and pleasure to speak before you, Chief. I was here back in April and I spoke about the incident involving the 15 year old girl. And at that time I made known that I live in a different neighborhood. But now we're talking about my particular neighborhood. And by the way, I have family and friends that live in that neighborhood. They have homes there. They have businesses there. And my grandmother, my aunts, uncles, everyone, I have people in those neighborhoods, okay, of all different races and ethnicities and so forth, okay? So it affects everyone. I've heard talk today about... the officer that was involved in the latest incident being reassigned. Why? He needs to be reassigned to the unemployed list, okay? We have, the chief is aware of this, but besides just the policies and so forth, the Ohio has the police officers training standards Ohio Peace Officer Training Commission standards, okay? Those standards, before these officers even graduate or go to their academies, they have to comply with these standards. Jumping out of on-mark gang task forces, special operation vehicles, is not in compliance with these standards. I heard a lot of talk about the uh... despicable comments that those officers made in reference to that neighborhood but uh... councilman hobbs uh... there's a greater issue here that these officers were in an on marked vehicle ohio law provides that all those unmarked vehicles must be uh... distinctly marked and have in on the top of visible lights and so forth. They're not for hunting down children and teenagers in neighborhoods. They're for enforcement on ATF and special warrants and other things like that. In regard to the station in West Toledo, I live in West Toledo. Just a couple of nights ago, there were 10 or 14 unmarked police officers on my street alone, all the way backed up on this street. This is not an isolated incident that these occurrences are going on.

It happens all the time.

I have videos, I have pictures and stuff. It's not a one off. It's the training. You have a training officer coming to work, slipping out the back door because he's under the influence. That was a training officer, okay? We don't need more training like that. They're not following the training. They should be disciplined and fired. Thank you, Mr. Dolan.

Pastor Troy Brown. newly elected pastor of Third Baptist Church in Swanton, Ohio.

Good afternoon. I am from Toledo, Ohio, born and raised. I now reside in Perrysburg. But my heart never leaves Toledo. I work, live, worship, volunteer in the central city often. I'm a quiet person by nature. I, too, grew up on 1616 North Detroit Avenue, where the late George Brown and Rosie Brown, who recently passed two weeks ago, of 102 years old, resided at 1616 North Detroit. They were the sole proprietors of Zanzibar, downtown where the Mudhead Stadium is located. They were also the sole proprietors of the Yankee Inn on Detroit and Oakwood. I am 45 years old, wife and five kids, three daughters, two boys, one girl is adopted, and two of my girls are 15 years old as of right now. We are now the adults in the room. What are we going to do? And if I hadn't channeled some of my ancestors who were not educated for 400 and some odd years, what is Waze going to do? Every morning I have to get up and tell my children because of the hue, H-U-E, of their skin, you is smart, you is kind, you is pretty, you can do all things. When is it going to be enough for us to teach our kids to be respectable to adults when the adults refuse to respect them. I don't have much time. I didn't plan on saying anything. But in the time that I have left, I want to remind us of the humanity that we all share. We are now the adults in the room. And at my grandmother's funeral, the pastor got up and said and looked in the casket I said, Mother Brown, take your rest. And pointed to my mother and said, we have a new Mother Brown. But the new Mother Brown is my mother, and she is 76 years old, Catherine Conley Brown. She's been on the battlefield for a long time, too, growing up on Norwood Avenue. But we are now Toledo, the adult's home.

In the room.

We got one chance to get this right. One chance. We better not mess it up. Look at our collective humanity and do the right thing for the right reasons at the right time. Please, our children and grandchildren now are watching. I yield.

Thank you. Don, I think it's Don Lynn. Thank you, sir.

Thank you guys for still sitting here. Y'all catching it. Hearing the words. But what I wanted to do when they had the people up here, the officers, I only had two questions. One, first, do you guys know about the code of conduct that the police have? Anybody don't know about it? Raise your hand. The code of conduct that the policemen have is done maybe some 10, some years ago. Okay, so there is a code of conduct. And then my question is, I was going to ask the officer and the chief, do they use that code of conduct when they're doing their training? Do they make them aware that they have this code of conduct with the city?

I wanted to ask that question.

So if you get a chance and you're discussing this, find out about the code of conduct that's been around for some time and see is that involved in their training. And then discuss does a code of conduct make any difference? Because if it does, Toledo has one. Thank you.

I think this is Monita Mongo. Did I say that correct? I'm sorry if I did. I'm sorry.

Hi, thank you for this opportunity. A lot of wonderful things have been said, so I'm not going to rehash that. But I do want to say my first interaction with the former chief of police was at an NAACP meeting when he was talking about, we were discussing about the officer calling a black woman wench. And I've tried to give better words because he didn't know that was not a good word to be using to a black woman. And I was quickly dismissed, quickly overspoken and told well i didn't know what that word wise and so i didn't see the problem so to come here and see that he is still involved and i'm gonna let that i'll let you finish how you want to finish uh... we sat here for approximately thirty minutes and listen to a wonderful model financial resources and human resources have been expended to create uh... what is what will be some behavioral health modification in policing correct We do know across this country there has been wonderful models of community policing, right? What resources will be expended to do that? Because clearly we have a community policing issue, right? So I encourage, and I mean, just like the national stage is set, we do everything around the problems that need to be fixed, but fix the problem. Historically, we know why police were created. Do I need to do a history lesson? I'm pretty good at it. If not, you can Google it. We are still here in 2026 having the same types of discussions that my ancestors, your ancestors had. We will do everything to go around the issue of race and racism, but not weed out racism. It's going to take proximity, right? So making that officer go into the schools in which he is policing or she is policing, right? We need to do things better because like the wisdom of McPherson, you cannot train or untrain racism. You just can't, right? We learned how to respect people, right? Second point, if you don't see our children as children, my daughter is five eleven i'm not five eleven my daughter is seventeen people have been confusing her as my sister for years All right? If you don't understand that these are children, you understand and see that they are human. So treat them as such. That's the basic, right? Basic understanding, respectability in human. If you don't see our kids as kids, see them as humans and start there. And then when you find out that frontal lobe isn't working, because it probably isn't, then you deal from that point. All right? That's all. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Richard Torres.

Good evening. I didn't come here with a speech. I didn't even come here today to speak. But my heart compelled me to speak today. And I'm tired of what's going on with the black and brown community. Let's call it what it is. It's racism. And it starts at the top. And if we can't get the chief of police to correct these things, and I know about the code of conduct. I've been around when that is signed. Another thing is... These are children you're dealing with. And there's no excuse for the way they're treating these children, the black and brown children. And they should be fired. And these children deserve an apology from these police officers. And I have a hard time getting that out, calling them police officers. It's a time for a change. If they're not going to change what they're doing, then it's time to change the chief of police.

Dr. Hope Bland.

Hello everyone.

Can you guys hear me? Okay. Okay. Um, thank you for this opportunity to all of you. Um, I just wanted to share or talk a little bit about the elephant in the room today. I want to thank you also for what you shared. Um, ditto to that because it really is about the heart. Um, but what I also want to talk about as far as the elephant in the room is that our chief talked about the fact that after the investigation, he was going to review the case. And honestly, I think that we need an independent reviewer, because I think he's too close to it. I also think that he has bias, natural bias, because he is too close to it. And also, in the first incident, I believe that he didn't react soon enough. I believe that his responses were in the sense that he felt in some way he didn't share this, but it seemed to come about as we talked about it that the incident, again, needed to be reviewed. The officer was still in the same neighborhood. And so when we think about just going back and reflecting on that, it really makes me think he really should not be involved in making the final decision. And this is not to be harsh on him. This is just when we think about how the leader is just too close. There is natural bias there. And so we should consider the fact that there should be an independent reviewer for that case. I also want to share that as a community, we have rights. So if we were to see, and I want to go back to the first incident, if we were to see a child slammed to the ground and tied by their parent, who would we call?

Children's services.

Thank you. Is our law enforcement above the law? So if we were to have seen another adult do that to another child, this community has a right to call Child Protective Services on that individual, whether they're the law enforcement or not. And I think that's important because we don't consciously think about that. We look at them as protectors. We look at them as people who are in authority. And sometimes we're very intimidated by them. But it doesn't mean that we cannot call another agency or system when they are doing something wrong. And I think we need to understand that. Okay? And I want to make that very clear. And we can still do that if we feel that that child was that violated. We know the names. We know who he is. We know who she is. And it doesn't mean that he can't be investigated. And I think that needs to be said as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Dr. Holt. Thank you, Dr. Villanueva. I want to again thank our community for being here tonight. I want to say, Mr. Bibish, I'm sorry that you did not, I don't know where there was a disconnect, but we did spend all of that time talking about all the questions that you were asked. and I don't know where the disconnect was, but I do hope those questions have been answered. We have one more person, Mr. Earl Mack, and then after Mr. Earl Mack has come, then that will be this meeting for tonight. Thank you for being here, Mr. Mack.

Well, thank you for having me, for sure. And I know a lot of folks are probably going to raise their eyebrows, but you know what I'm most concerned with in this city? I live around a corner off of Hill Avenue in Reynolds, and not too long ago, a young lady was shot and killed in a bar there. I responded after hearing those shots and watched that. I have responded to several shootings involving black-on-black crime in this city where they're shooting each other. I have responded with Chief Craw before when we had an officer shooting and our community was in an uproar because they didn't understand what had happened. There's a lot of problems that we have in our community that I like to see resolved. Buffalo Soldiers, we do a lot of things with our schools, and we talk to those little kids. How many of you have ever heard gunshots, almost all the hands in the room raised? How many of you have seen someone shot, a few hands raised? And what do you do in that? This officer, the latest one, that was involved in this teenage girl using the profanities and all, I met with Chief Crony. I believe what he's going to do is going to set that straight sooner or later here. But I'm concerned with the violence, black on black violence in this city. It seems like nobody has these kind of meetings to deal with that. But when a police officer appears to do something wrong with one of our folks, we all come together and we fight against that. Again, there's policies. When the chief and I talked this morning, there's policies to follow. If a police officer's heart is not in it, then you follow the policy. The policy means if you don't follow this policy, you're going to be fired. And that's what I always see done. You know, he's got to deal with unions on this. He's got to deal with all kinds of things, as you know. But when an officer deals with that deal, When I see this officer cursing at someone, he's not a person that needs to be in our community. But we need to give those command officers time to deal with things like that because you don't know how hard it is. I was once a Homeland Security Deputy Director over law enforcement in this state. And I know what happens when chiefs have to get involved with misconduct of those officers and the hardship that they have going through the unions and everybody else. I'm more concerned, because that's going to be handled, I guarantee you that. I'm more concerned with black-on-black crime in the city and how are we dealing with it. Thank you.

Thank you, Chief Krall. Thank you, Chief Trendley. Thank you to every council member that came tonight. I really appreciate you all being here for this meeting. If that be all, this meeting is adjourned.