Public Safety & Criminal Justice Reform Committee - Regular Meeting

I want to call to order the meeting of the Toledo City Council Public Safety and Criminal Justice Reform Committee meeting. Clerk, call the roll.

Hobbs? Here. Williams? Here. Cramer? Here. McPherson? Here. Meldon? Morris? Sarantu? Here. The five present and also present are Council Members Driscoll and Gaddis.

Thank you all for being here today and for our council members that are here. Would you, and our council president, would you please, we want to have first our domestic violence report data from Chief Prosecutor Facey. Thank you for being here.

Thank you so much, Councilman Hobbs, for having me. Thank you to the members of council. president williams we appreciate your time today i first want to take the opportunity to introduce the toledo prosecutor's office who almost all of them are in attendance today behind us here this is a fabulous group of public servants who are dedicated to seeking truth and justice in our city this is a team worth bragging about because the success we are here to share regarding domestic violence prosecutions belongs to all of us. We share the vision, the heartache, and the workload. We are there for each other to strategize cases, to cover dockets when life happens outside of work, and to help pick each other back up when we start to feel buried under the weight of it all. I am so proud of these people and truly honored to get to work alongside them at the Toledo Prosecutor's Office. I'm grateful they are here with us today to receive some much-deserved public recognition of their hard work in keeping Toledo safe. I would also like to introduce to council the members of the Domestic Violence Prosecution Unit.

Josh Arter, Monica Sass, Nancy McGinnis, and Michelle Turvey.

Thank you. Thank you, Council Member McPherson. Michelle served in the unit for a long time. She actually just transitioned out and Nancy is transitioning in, but wanted to recognize all the hard work as the numbers today really reflect her time in the unit as well. We are here thanks to the funding from City Council that we are fortunate to have three full-time domestic violence prosecutors who each cover two courtrooms apiece. What these folks have managed to do in just a few short years is remarkable. They have increased convictions in domestic violence cases, spent more time with victims than ever before, and done so efficiently by taking less time to resolve cases. Before we get into where we are today, it is important to ground this presentation in the history of domestic violence prosecution in Toledo and how we got here. Domestic violence has always been an issue in our community, but it has not always been a priority. In 2013, a young woman by the name of Caitlin Gerber was murdered by her boyfriend in the middle of Southland Shopping Plaza in South Toledo in broad daylight on a Sunday afternoon. Caitlin was the victim of pending criminal cases in several of our courts, and after her death, both the City of Toledo, as well as the Lucas County Prosecutor's Offices, created the first local domestic violence prosecution unit. The Toledo Prosecutor's Office went through many different iterations, but due to lack of funding and high turnover, it was difficult to maintain consistent staffing in this high-stress role. That all changed in 2023, thanks to our law director's leadership and funding from city council to make an effective domestic violence unit in the prosecutor's office a reality. Once we were fully funded, we set out to train these prosecutors in the unique dynamics of intimate partner violence and how to prepare a case for trial without relying solely on a victim's testimony, understanding that there are many reasons that victims are not able to participate in the legal process. We often say it is not a victim's job to prosecute her abuser. That's our job. Once the unit was up and running, we were curious to track our progress and wanted to know how, if at all, the outcomes of DV cases were different since implementing the unit. So Josh Arter and I began working with folks from all over the country to compile and analyze data from our court. Actually, I will skip ahead. We partnered with some incredibly talented folks represented by the organizations you see on the screen here to take a look at our overall caseload and specifically track the progress of our DV unit. Before we look at the numbers, I want to be clear that progress for purposes of prosecution is about intervention and successfully prosecuting incidents that have already occurred. We are not in the business of primary prevention, so we cannot say that our work has reduced the incidence of domestic violence in our community. Rather, the rate of domestic violence crimes in Toledo remains steady, as it has for many years. You see on this slide that the amount of domestic violence cases in Toledo Municipal Court is regularly around 18% of our total criminal caseload. This represents a large portion of what we do and certainly justifies the need for specialized prosecutors to give these cases the attention they deserve. DV was the most charged criminal offense in our court in 2024, followed only by disorderly conduct. While our DV prosecutors handle all DV cases labeled DV, the primary focus of the unit is to address intimate partner violence that is based in power and control and reflects a patterned behavior that often escalates in severity. For purposes of this study, we look at the year prior to the unit being fully staffed and the two years after for comparison. Since that time, the city of Toledo has increased convictions on domestic violence cases. Anyone who works in criminal justice can appreciate that these numbers are not easy to come by. And this increase represents a Herculean effort on behalf of these prosecutors in a relatively short time. But we have not just increased our conviction rate, we have significantly increased enhanceable convictions on DV charges. This means that based on our conviction in Toledo Municipal Court, an abuser will be charged with a felony if they reoffend. So we have more meaningful consequences if someone continues their pattern of abusive behavior in relationships. That is huge. And while these numbers may not seem drastic, Please remember that these numbers represent people's lives. Hundreds of real Toledoans and their families who have experienced trauma and sought justice through the courts and are receiving better results. That is in part because our domestic violence prosecutors are able to spend more time with victims who do come to court and are able to participate in the legal process. The time that we are able to devote to learning a victim's circumstances and understand what they want to see happen with their case is invaluable. This is work that requires humanity and care for people in truly difficult moments. Being a domestic violence prosecutor requires a lot of time and patience, not only to speak with victims about their legal options, but also to compile and review evidence for cases that more often than not will not include victim testimony and therefore have to be prosecuted based entirely on other evidence such as 911 calls, photographs, and body camera footage. Despite the amount of time it takes for these prosecutors to be prepared, we are resolving domestic violence cases faster than ever before. Both the average and median length of time for a DV case disposed in 2024 is lower than the previous two years. This is in large part due to City Council funding our DV clerk position to have a dedicated staff person to process discovery requests on these cases so that they don't linger any longer than they have to in our court, which is certainly to everyone's benefit, defendants and victims alike. I want to thank these prosecutors for the work that they do every day, and a particular thanks to Josh for helping me compile these stats and make sense of the numbers. Lawyers are not usually good with numbers. He is a rare breed who understands both. But in conclusion, we are extremely grateful to this body for your support, both professionally and financially. It is because of City Council's investment that the prosecutor's office has increased meaningful domestic violence convictions, better served our community by providing victims the time and attention they deserve, and done so efficiently. We thank you and are happy to answer any questions that you have.

Thank you for this amazing report and for this amazing work. I know that when I came on council with myself, Council President Williams and Councilwoman Susandra McPherson at large, this is one of the things that we talked about a lot and had a lot of conversation about. and then councilman saranto came back to council and he had a fire burning in his heart for it as well and so for all of us to have come together as we did and to see the numbers and the phenomenal uh transition that is happening at that time uh i remember there was only one prosecutor for domestic violence and i know three is still not enough but it's better than what we had and what you've been able to do with three prosecutors in such a short amount of time, we are thankful for your dedication and your relentlessness and your perseverance for women and men that may be being abused in these kinds of cases. Oftentimes, men experience it as well, but they suffer in silence because it's not the masculine thing to say. that I am being abused. And so for you to be able to see beyond that and still help, I just, I really am extremely thankful for your leadership. Ms. Facey, thank you. And I hope that this will continue. And as the scripture teaches us, let us not be weary in well-doing. for in due season we will reap if we faint not so i hope that you will not get tired of this work but will continue with the same um energy that you have so far thank you councilwoman i mean councilman sarantu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I too want to express my deep appreciation to the Chief Prosecutor Facey and the entire team of prosecutors, because I think this is really making a difference. Domestic violence is not going to go away. It's here, and we need to continue to meet those challenges. So I really appreciate the hard work and the expansion of the staff. I have a couple of questions. How would you characterize the relationship between the prosecutors and our police department, the detectives that work on domestic violence? How is that going?

Well, thank you, Councilman Sorrento, for all your support over the years. I know that this issue is close to you and we appreciate the focus you've had on it. We have a wonderful working relationship with Toledo Police. Their liaisons are embedded in our office. We work with them every day. They are so incredibly helpful and supportive as we need follow up on our cases as we need to. make sure that officers are available to testify on our cases, particularly in these victimless domestic violence cases. We're relying on police officers' testimony to be able to bring forward the evidence that we do have. Toledo Police still has one domestic violence detective, as far as I know, and their primary focus is only on felony domestic violence cases. They are not typically involved at all on the misdemeanor level. And certainly we have a huge volume, but would love to see that number increased, as we've discussed many times.

Okay. Are there other detectives that the prosecutors are dealing with besides the main detective that's doing domestic violence? Are there other detectives that you come in contact with?

So for the most part, detectives in Toledo Police are only assigned to felony cases. It is rare that we have detectives involved in our cases on the misdemeanor level at all, domestic violence or otherwise.

Okay. All right. And then in terms of the clerical position, which is absolutely critical. Yes. I know that does make a difference.

And that is Diana Parizalis in the audience here today as well. Great. She is such a hard worker and we're so appreciative of her.

Thank you. Thank you for your service.

is there a backup for her if she's on vacation or something yes yes we have um three secretarial staff um who all do discovery uh diana just has this you know sole focus on domestic violence so we can move those cases great excellent well thank you very much i appreciate the information today thank you mr chair thank you councilwoman mcpherson

Thank you, Councilman Hobbs. Thank you for your work. I clap because I'm excited about the work and how important it is and how you struggled in the beginning with the lack of and now the support. And so, yeah, I get excited about things when I see it happening, when I actually see it. and it's actually working, and it's working for the betterment of the citizens of Toledo. So I commend you, Ms. Facey, for your work. Thank you. We're excited too.

We've got such a great team, and they have so much enthusiasm for what they do. We're really grateful for that excitement.

And it is, you know, when we were at the one memorial for the one young lady that was murdered, domestic violence, that was the conversation because you needed the additional help. And so I want to commend you for taking on this challenge and working through it and being patient. As Councilman Hobbs said, when we got on and it took a little time. You know, we got a real, real stern one over here. Councilman Sarantu, you know, keeps pushing and pushing and things happen. And so we are grateful for all of you and what you are doing. And I also ditto, don't get weary in well-doing. Continue and continue to fight and know that there are those of us that are out here supporting you wholeheartedly. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Councilman Sarantu.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I had a follow-up question, thanks to Councilwoman McPherson, because she reminded me of something. How is the relationship between Children's Services Board and the prosecutor's office? Obviously, we all know the very tragic murder that occurred. about a little over a year ago, and I consider that domestic violence. But I was just curious, is there a good working relationship? Is there much contact with CSB?

There's not a whole lot of contact, but yes, we do work in partnership. Sometimes we will have to subpoena their records sometimes on cases involving child endangering and have a good working relationship with their legal department to be able to get those records quickly.

Thank you. Very good. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Is there anyone from the audience that had a question or anything while we have them here so I don't make five people come back up front at the end? Is there anyone from our audience that had any questions or statements for domestic violence? Anyone? All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you so much. Thank you. Next up, I'm asking, I believe, Chief Trinley, Deputy Chief Braun, and Lieutenant Holmes to come and talk about the Toledo police in Pound Lot.

Good afternoon, Chair, Council. Appreciate the opportunity to come back and talk more about the impound lot. As we've already done a presentation on the lot and we were able to give you guys some answers to referral questions. I think at this point, we don't really have any new information to present. We just kind of open it up for questions and discussion. We also do have their COO, Frank Mecklenburg, from VMS here tonight to answer any questions that we do not have or anything further that you may have for the company. And I know we have Director Campbell here to talk about some of the finance options of it as well.

Okay. I know that one of the questions that was asked, and I believe it came from Councilwoman McPherson concerning the union with command and officers, and I was able to have a conversation with both the unions, and so they said that it would not be a... issue with the union as far as the eight or nine officers that work there because they work in records they will move them from into a different place in records and the only thing that would change i believe was if the chief and i believe in talking to you chief you would have a conversation with those officers to see if they still wanted to stay in records if they did not you could look at something else uh could you elaborate on that a little bit but from the information i got councilwoman mcpherson from both unions they did not have an issue with those that were working in records

Yes, and I know representatives from the TPPA are in the audience. So we are, obviously, those are contractual positions or records. Records is more than just the tow lot. Tow lot is a subsection of our records section. So we would have positions inside of the records section that we would utilize those officers. specifically we have not worked out all those details and partially that's because waiting to see if this is even something that's going to come to fruition because it's not a overnight process as well regardless there are record spots that we would utilize those officers and working with the unions and the officers we would like to find the best utilization for them not only for the officers themselves to maintain shifts and everything else that they're doing right now but also for the betterment of our department and our community by getting more officers to have contact with our community for making reports questions from our council members thank you chief councilman sarantu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In looking at the referral answers, I needed some help and understanding. Chief, could you tell us what is contractual services? Because that's about, well, so about 1.3, 1.4 million. What does that entail?

The contractual services is going to be like our tow companies and other contracts that we have such as lock services or locksmith services or we also have our Tura contract that we currently have as well.

What is that?

That is what we use to order tows currently, the software.

All right. And then, so currently, you have vehicles there that can't be salvaged but are going to be auctioned off, some of the vehicles? Okay. So that is what would represent some of the revenue in terms of the tow lot that it brings in?

Correct.

Okay. And then I assume we have a professional auctioneer that handles that? yes over the last few years we've used pamela rose okay and then where would i where would i find the uh fees for that where would that be on that sheet i believe they may be in also contractual services contractual services okay any idea what percent of the contractual service expenditures that that represents

Not off the top of my head, but I can take that by referral if needed.

Okay. Okay. And then it would appear, because in the referral that was requested, we asked for revenue and expenditures going all the way back to 2021, and it looks like, In 2021, we had 2.9 million of revenue, total revenue. And then in 22, 23, 24, it was around 3.6 million for 2025, 3.7 million. So it seems to be very steady. And then the expenditures look to be, again, fairly steady. Somewhere currently around 1.5 million is what I'm seeing. And this doesn't include the officers, because the officers are going to be paid anyways, whether they're in records or they're out on the street or they're at the sergeant's desk or whatever. So I just see a trend here that we are bringing in more revenue than what we were five years ago. It looks to me like about $600,000, $700,000 more. Do you foresee that trend continuing?

in toledo as is or yeah or with this company because no i mean in terms of just in general the tow lot the potential is there yes is is the tow lot filled with capacity at this point or is there still room no right now it is not completely full so when we did do the regionalization over the towing for the area we had some expansion there to be able to take in more cars know one of the things this company will do as well is better tow lot management of the lot itself to allow us to fit more cars in there as well but right now we are not completely full but there are some times where we get pretty close to capacity okay i i have to be honest i don't like the idea of giving up the tow lot because we are giving up control of the tow lot

And I can tell you that in the past, former Chief Michael Navarro presented to us this idea and, quote, he said it was a moneymaker. And I think it has been a moneymaker for the city. This company obviously is around the country and has had other locations, but I just hate to give up control because before we had that tow lot, we had so many problems. People went to the wrong lot. It was just very burdensome, and people were obviously very upset that their car was towed. And I just think a central location is important. I don't know much about this company, but again, I think it's also an issue for this council to decide on whether we want to give up control of a multimillion dollar facility. And the fact that it has, in general, I think worked pretty well. I don't know of any major issues that we've had with the tow lot. So I just wanted to share my thoughts on that. I'm open to additional information. So thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Councilwoman McPherson.

Thank you. Just a couple of questions. If you could give me a, what's the reasoning behind looking at going to giving up total control of the lots, the towing and everything, and going with another company, one. And then did we even look at other companies? Because this company is not local. Did we look at other companies or the potential of bidding it out to see if there are locals? Because you know I have the issue with outsourcing jobs. And then I'm going to let you answer those first. Yeah.

So first, why would we consider giving up? I don't actually see it giving up complete control. We're basically hiring a company to manage the toll lot. And from a chief's perspective and a policing perspective, while back in the day, consolidating into one tow lot made sense when we had so many different tow companies taking all the different cars to different places. That will not change right now. There'll still be a consolidated tow lot. It'll just be the management of the tow lot will be out of the policing business. From a personal perspective, I think there's better use for police officers than being tow lot attendants and customer service agents at the desk and facilitating the return of cars. Now, there will still be a need for an officer to be a liaison between the company and our police department, especially when you start talking about evidence tows and those kinds of things. But from a peer management perspective, I believe this company will do it better and provide a better service to our community than our officers do currently. And the second one is, it is our understanding, and they are, I believe, registered as the only company that actually provides this service. So they are a sole source at this point on how this came about.

They are a sole source. There's no other companies?

It is my understanding there's no other company that does this service as managing TOLAS the way that this company does it. And I think Mr. Reckmiller can speak to that more. If you would like him to come up.

Oh, sure, if you can. Yes.

Yep.

Whoever.

Glad to be back. Thanks for having me. opportunity to give us a chance to talk a little bit more about this but in terms of are we a sole source you know does does anybody else do what we do across the country and the answer is no to the the level and the amount of vehicles that we process how we process process them the government agencies that we interact with that we work with on a national level on a state level The software that we use and utilize and how we utilize that software in order to benefit citizens and get cars back quickly and ensure the vehicles are sold properly and released properly. We are the only company in the country that does that. There were a couple other companies that did do that. Texaco was one of them. Grant Street Peak Auto was another, and then there was VMS. In the last two years, we've actually all consolidated under one company. So all of the national companies that used to do that now fall under the VMS banner.

Question on the revenue. So when cars would then be sold, how we do it through rolls through the auctioneer, this company then would handle that also?

So they're a total management company. They would handle all aspects of the tow lot, from the intake to the selling of the cars to the processing of the return of the cars. They will be in control of all those.

And the revenue from that, from selling those cars, will then go to?

Yeah, so they were being paid a flat fee for managing the tow lot, and then all the revenue and extra fees that come in come back to the city.

And this is at the amount of $2,471,617 annually? That's the top cost that we'll have at the 10-year mark. Currently, for the first two years, it'll only be $2,196,000.

That's all the questions I have for right now.

Thank you, Councilman Haas.

I just thought making sure another question wasn't coming. Councilwoman Gaddis, thank you.

Thank you, Chair. The tow lot, I know we brought up that they contract with Pamela Rose. Is there any other companies that you guys are currently in contracts with around the towing business? So do we have companies that tow, we have contracts to tow the cars there? Will that change? Are there any other in the whole from the time we tow the car to the end? How many companies are we in contract with?

I can't give you the exact. I think we're somewhere around eight or nine tow companies that we currently work with. It is my understanding that this company will continue to contract with those companies because they are local tows. That's not going to change. And the only other one that off the top of my head would be a salvage contract that we do have. We bid that out every year. so just about every year we rebid that contract obviously for any current contracts that we have for like the salvage yourself I believe BMS is going to assume that contract and then work forward just like we would on rebidding it out okay and then the auctioneer contract does that expire this year as well or is that something we're gonna have to cancel okay so i'm gonna have to look into that more because we don't believe that's actually a contract that we have um because i think it's based off a fee and collection of selling the cars and everything else but uh we will get through you that by referral okay thank you thank you chair council president williams

um hey chief hey chief assistant chief chief lieutenant braun i mean lieutenant home breanne all that other stuff he can be lieutenant if you like i mean we got chiefs everywhere so um this may be for director campbell where she at is she here right oh hey hey or are you chief i don't know so um this this is similar to what we have with tamil shanna with the ice rink and also davies with the golf course right i mean it's different because it's a toe lot but this is kind of along the same lines of the contracts that we have there um And you may not have this, but if you do, did we turn a profit on the ice rink and on Davies at the golf course? I think I know that we're crawling away from the golf income, like we're not having to pay out as much with the golf, right? the general fund over the past couple years has had to subsidize the golf course operations but the amount is slowly decreasing okay um i would have to check on the ice rink though okay um i only asked that because you know we're in a situation where our budget is crazy um and we have asked the administration to cut $10 million out of the budget for next year. If this is a contract that is going to help that, I wanna see like the other contracts we have around the city that we're doing that in, if it can, you know, with our general fund, I am for it. And it's not gonna be cutting any of our jobs because that was something that this council did not do this year, nor do we wanna do. We wanna make sure that we're doing that. But as we move forward, I wanna just really see these contracts and are they saving us money in the long term? It sounds like this will because as I looked at it and I conferred with my colleague, Sarantu, Math was one of my favorite subjects, but I wanted to see, because our general fund, I mean, we lost 100,000 on the total lot last year, and it stays steady for 23 and 24. if it can help with it i'm off for it but i don't want to go through all this and it would cost us more is what i want to talk about i don't want it to cost us more but i would like it to save us some dollars because i mean if i'm sitting in my office for six hours cutting paper clips and pens out of budgets to save jobs i would expect other departments to do that as well so i appreciate the effort to try to find ways to save the city money so that we can save jobs so i appreciate the effort and i'm hopeful that this is so i will probably write a referral request requesting notes so that i can have it formalized on what sam o'shiner is saving us at the ice rink and also what Davies is saving us over the contract year we've had with them. So I'll send that to finance. Thank you, Director. What are you, Chief, Director? Just Director. Okay, Director.

i'm glad you even took that job so thank you director appreciate you and if i may um i helped police with putting together the referral response and the toll lot operations do overall provide a net benefit to the general fund and as we look at this contract going forward and the potential for increased revenues that will increase the overall benefit to the general fund oh good deal so we're going to be saving jobs if we if we get into this contract i appreciate that thank you

councilman driscoll thank you chair hobbs yeah the principal difference though to me between the golf course and uh the ice rink and then the tow lot is that we do make money on the tow lot and so to me it represents an asset we don't we're not outsourcing the maintenance of it because maybe it's more expensive for us to do we actually we do make money on it um many years ago the city had an opportunity to potentially sell its water uh to sell our public utility, and we decided not to because it was an asset, I think that was the right call. So I came into this somewhat skeptical, but I'm willing to be persuaded. I do have a question for Director Campbell. In the referral response, The two columns on the far right represent estimates, I think, if we do outsource this, projections of revenues and expenditures if we were to outsource it. But you still have, I assume this is a mistake, but maybe it's not, you still have personnel costs budgeted in the general fund at $1.108 million, both the low end and high end. Is that correct, or that number should be zero, right?

So those are just the police officers that will still be budgeted in the general fund and still part of our budget, but they won't be part of TOLA operations. But not part of this.

so i to me that number ought to be zero right because they won't be doing tow lot related activities is that right correct they won't be doing total related related activities but they'll still be part of our overall general fund budget and a cost that we'll have in our general fund well i understand that but they're not associated with the tow lot correct i think that number needs to be like fleshed out a little bit better because this might be a better picture than really um Is that right? I mean, if their responsibilities are changing, I mean, it sounds like there's still be some responsibilities at some level for some officers and records with the tow lot, but.

And Councilman Driscoll, conservatively, I left the officers in here because they're part of our general fund budget, but they truly aren't part of the tow lot operations anymore. So that net benefit overall in the tow lot operations would be higher if they're not included.

Okay, I think we should try to flush that out a little better because I think that makes the picture a little better for the idea of outsourcing. I do have a question about the tow fees. When was the last time we raised fees for the tow lot?

is actually fairly recent so when we did the consolidation with the countywide towing we are readjusted our fees at that point but they had been steady for at least I think was almost 20 years so that was within the last three years I believe so maybe twenty two thousand and twenty three or at the end of

Do you think now that represents an industry standard for what we ought to be charging, or is there still some flexibility?

We are probably a little bit on the low side for our tow fees. city department we don't make a ton off of our tow fees because the majority of those go right to the tow truck drivers we had to kind of redesign it inside the TMC because we're now asking our city tow truck drivers to travel further out into Berkeley or whatever you want to call so they get a higher portion of that fee the further out they go okay so I'm again looking at the projections here

The primary difference here, I think, is on auto salvage. So these are cars that we're able to sell. So this firm that we might be going with, we must believe at some level that they'd be far better at selling cars than the contractual service we have right now. Is that correct?

I think it's a combination of things. This is not a knock against our current auctioneer. That is not really what it is, but I think the company that we're going to use, VMS, they prioritize the salvage different than we do now. Where they will sell their salvage on an auction site instead of just having a contract necessarily with a salvage company that pays the bare minimum for the metal that they're taking. From having conversations with him, and I'm sure Frank can speak to this better than I can, But there are other vendors out there that are looking for these types of cars because maybe that quarter panel is still in good shape and they're getting more and more money out of that or something along those lines.

Okay. If VMS fails to meet their goals in terms of revenue, what happens? Let's say they're not profitable. What happens to us then?

so in looking at the contracts we the way we write our contracts is we have a ability to terminate a contract if we're unhappy with the service okay um

I guess, yeah, I guess the only concern I have is that this represents an asset. I wonder if we have the ability, like if somebody can make money doing this, I don't know why we couldn't, but we're good. That's what Councilwoman Pearson said, too. So I don't know. I've got to understand the value proposition a little bit better. I'm not saying I'm necessarily against this, but... Yeah, I guess I just want to understand why it is that VMS would be so much better at this than we would. But I appreciate the work you put into it. Thank you.

Councilman Siratu. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. So when I look at what we actually transfer into the general fund from 22, 23, 24, 25, it's on average somewhere around 2.2 to 2.3 million. And then for 26, we're projecting a transfer to the general fund after expenses of, and this is without the police salaries, which is proper. We're looking at 2,025,000. I'd like to ask the finance director, why would it be less from 24 to 25? I'm sorry, from 25 to 26?

The amount in 26 is based on the budget and the estimated revenues compared to the expenditures in 2025 the revenues were pretty close 3.7 but expenditures were a little bit less than what's currently budgeted for 26 so the transfer was able to be a little bit higher.

Okay. All right. Thank you. And then, so, you know, roughly 2.2 million to 2 million is transferred to the general fund under current conditions. But when I look at the VMS projections, it would be 2.2 million at the low end and 2.6 million at the high end. Well, that's not a lot of difference. That's maybe a half a million dollars. And we're giving up control of an asset that has brought in millions of dollars into the city of Toledo. The other question I've got, I want to follow up on Councilman Driscoll's question. And that is, how many days notice do we have to give to cancel the contract with VMS? And are there any penalties that we're liable for as a city?

That's going to have to be a question that's going to be answered by law, so we'll take that by referral.

Okay. All right. And then also, are we required by law to have licensed law enforcement officers in the tow lot, or at least one or several?

No, I do not believe that is a law at all.

Okay, so why in the heck, if we wanted to get more police officers on the street, why couldn't we have our local 7 employees or other civilian employees run the tow lot? Could somebody answer that for me? If they were trained.

so along those same lines you know going to a company to manage it that gets our officers out of the toll lot adopting another union into the toll lot i'm not positive how that will play out it is definitely something that it could be explored but you're still you're still left with us trying to manage a toll lot and bringing in similar or less money than a company that does this across the country is able to streamline the process, provide a better customer service product to our community based on their ability to, their different software, their flexibility in hours to open up for longer hours and actually have a better customer service mindset than our police officers probably do at that tow lot.

But I was also informed that most of the officers that are assigned to the tow lot are senior officers with maybe a few years within retirement, maybe one year of retirement, and they bid on the job. Which brings me to the point, a senior officer is going to be at the top level of income as an officer with Toledo Police Department versus For example, a Local 7 or a Teamster employee certainly wouldn't be at that high level because of the jobs that they're involved in. So I would assume that if we chose to do that, there would be a reduction in expenditures, personnel expenditures.

Yes, I'd say that would be correct. Okay.

All right. Well, thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Councilwoman McPherson.

Thank you, Councilman Sorrento, for that. And I don't have a question. I just need to state that I have a concern with the city of Toledo going to privatize a job that we've had. And if it was not going to be beneficial monetarily for this company, they wouldn't be here. I think that s all of that that uh... dot uh... during state doctor surrounded a councilman sorrento has just stated i think there are ways that we can or our departments could work this and still get our police officers out on the street or in other areas without having to be over there but we still are going to have to have a police or a couple of police that are are seeing because of what you just said about criminal actions or things, investigations where those cars may have to be. And so I just hope that we will look at this a little more in depth before we make a decision on this. I also would like by referral that our law department look into this as far as labor agreements because I want to make sure that there will not be no fallbacks if we were to decide to do this with TPD or TP Toledo Police Association. And that's all that I have for right now. Thank you, Councilman Hobbs. Oh, let me just say this. I noticed that when council, I'm sorry, yep. She mentioned about O'Shanty, and she mentioned about the contract with the Gulf. Both of those are local entities, and those are local businesses that we have contracted with. I don't have a problem with going locally. I do have a problem when we outsource. Thank you.

All right. I think I'm in the safety zone. Councilman Driscoll.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the latitude to ask a few questions. As I'm not a regular member of this committee, I appreciate the time you've given me. The last question I had, though, is with regards to the five-year contract. I wonder, and maybe someone from VMS could use to speak on this, but... I wonder if this isn't successful, I guess we have the right to terminate the contract at any time, and maybe we just need to understand that a little bit better, but I wonder if maybe a shorter deal makes more sense, give us a little more time for oversight. I don't know how you feel about that, and I don't know what kind of infrastructure investment VMS makes into this, which I understand, and perhaps that would change their rate. I don't know. Like I said, this is an asset. This is one of the few things that we actually make money on in this city. I just want to be very careful about forking over our rights. I don't know if you can address that or if somebody from VMS wants to address that.

So you're right. When we come into any tow lot, the first thing that we do is we analyze it. We figure out what we need to invest in. We move cars a little bit differently. So we invest right out of the gate with a front loader, which runs in the $150,000 to $225,000 range. So we will bring that in. Any fence repairs that need to be done, any security that needs to be added, we have to bring our own circuit in because we will not use the city circuit because we are private. So we do bring all that in. We generally will regrade the entire lot. We'll bring gravel in, really get it to a point where we are comfortable moving cars on that lot in and out. and and the main reason for that is obviously you know damage and everything else that goes along with that are we storing cars properly are we doing are we taking care of the citizens of toledo's cars so getting the lot set up and ready to go is is one of the first things that we do in in the first in the first couple months as we're here so there is an investment that goes along with that there's an investment in recruiting we do hire all local folks the the manager will be local the the staff will be local uh supported clearly on a national level uh which which we feel is is an asset and a benefit because as things change throughout the country uh as fees change these are things that we can help the city of toledo benchmark against when you talk about where are storage fees where are tow fees where are any other ancillary fees you know if you're looking to do something different there we can you know we can benchmark benchmark against 15 20 25 other cities if we need to so I know it's not exactly what you just asked but for the most part that is is some of the benefit that we that we bring in and I think the the key thing for us in any community that we come into is are we taking care of the citizens is our technology helping to take care of citizens do we offer transparency do we offer transparency on whether it's auctions or whether it's the fees that are there. Do we give citizens the ability to potentially look up their car, pay online? Yes, we can bring that into the equation as well. Everything is system tracked. And again, when we work with the tow companies, which is something we do all over the country, Our national response time for an officer, once they request a tow to the time the tow shows up, right now we're at about 13 and a half minutes. So reducing secondary accidents for the citizens of Toledo, for officers for that matter, that's something that we do and we do very, very well. And one of the things I'll add and I'll close on and happy to answer any other questions. We are in several cities. I've been with this company for a long time in one form or another. We have never lost a contract. So when we come into a city, we work hand in hand with council members. We work hand-in-hand with Toledo PD and PD all over the country, community members, everything that we do. And so it is important to us. We even have our VMS Cares folks that come in and can work to help, you know, charity events and things like that. We become part of the community and part of the solution. So that's part of why I think we've been... we've been able to sustain these contracts is because we truly don't come in and push everybody out and say you know we're here to do it our way no we're here to work with you guys we're here to try to make this a better experience for everybody and we're certainly here to protect the citizens to protect their vehicles to protect them against claims and to take care of them if and when that happens and we do take all of that responsibility on and remove that from the city uh through through our contract and indemnifying the city on the actions that happen out there

Thank you very much. That was a very comprehensive answer. One last question for the chief would be, and I wasn't here for agenda review at that point, so I'm sorry if this was already answered, but why did we waive competitive bidding? I mean, why didn't we? Are there not other firms that do this, and what was the reason behind that?

Yes, that is our understanding. There is no other firm that does this package that we're signing on with BMS. Okay, all right, terrific. Thank you again, Mr. Chairman.

Councilman Saratsu Thank You mr. Chair I know I've asked a lot of questions but this is important legislation I'd like to know in terms of your operation the auctions of the vehicles you're auctioning them off in Toledo to people that are coming to the lot to buy them or how do you do that

so we use a completely online platform it's actually integrated within our system one of the reasons we like that is because as bids come in it's completely transparent and available for anybody to look at at any given time but it is a national system our auction platform is national we have 10 000 active bidders on that auction platform we have 50 000 registered bidders on that platform uh just in this this last year so that's part of what we are bringing in so we are we're advertising locally We're pushing out to local parts dealers and everybody else, but we're also seeing what we can get and pull in from surrounding states. Even states that are across the country on certain vehicles, they might have a special interest in that. Our auction platform as well, it takes a look at buying characteristics of certain people, whether it's bulk buyers or individual buyers.

looks at that and says okay do are you typically buying this kind of car if that's the case we have one coming up in the auction next week and then we're push marketing out on that so that's part of how we are driving up average sale price on cars so in your operations around the country are most of the buyers that are buying these automobiles are most of them local or what percent would be out of out of the greater metropolitan vicinity yeah

pretty much across the country, it varies a little bit, but roughly 7 to 8% are somewhat of outside. And we consider outside really outside of the surrounding counties as well, because generally, especially for in-person auctions or even online auctions to an extent, and this is more for the in-person, those are folks that aren't going to make the trip necessarily to come and participate in a weekly auction or a bi-monthly auction. So about 7% to 8% are usually from out of state, so to speak. The rest of them are in state. And a lot of times it will be companies like a pick-apart, a pull-apart that are national, but they have a local presence.

Okay, so I want to make sure I understand that. 7% to 8% or 70% to 80%? 7% to 8%. 7% to 8% are outside the greater metropolitan area?

Yeah, on average. Now we'll see what that means for Toledo if and when we have the opportunity.

All right, so it would seem from my perspective that if it's under 10%, it's not going to really bring in that much additional revenue over and above what we're already doing because most people

ninety percent ninety two percent are local people buying these vehicles for whatever reason parts and so forth the am i wrong on that sorry no the average sale price on your car right now with the blended sale price between what you're scrapping direct scrapping and what you are selling competitively right now sets at about seven hundred twenty five dollars i believe Our average in this area, when we look at Indianapolis, when we look at even Memphis and Nashville, we run about 9.50 to 9.75. So it does make a difference being able to push that out. When we were doing a local auction in Indianapolis, Our average sale price set at around $550,600. It sets today right at that $950,975. We've proven that being able to push that out really does bring in bids. And that's really the key. It's not necessarily about who ends up with the car. It's who's participating in bidding the car up. A lot of times local folks still end up with it, but they're paying a little bit more than what they used to because of the competitive process. So that's really the key difference in how that works. We just analyzed this for the city of San Antonio. who had looked at possibly bringing this back into an in-person auction and removing it offline. They thought maybe this is something we should try and go back to. And when we looked at those outside bidders, they said at about 12%, it represented another million dollars in bid price. Now, they sell significantly more cars than the city of Toledo. However, those characteristics are repeatable throughout the country in scale, depending on the level of volume that you have.

Okay. Well, thank you very much. Appreciate that. Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Okay. I believe I have, I think. the names while I have them here, have everybody up front. I'm going to try to allow a couple of questions to be asked. And let me know if this is what you signed up to talk about. I think I have Patrick McKinney and I think Joel Maltese. Are you wanting to talk about this? Would you please come forward, please?

Yeah.

Thank you. I'm Patrick McKinney. I work with U Polar Parts, who is the local supplier. We have the salvage bid. We're under contract with the city right now. That contract is a three-year contract, annual renewal. So we have that. It was just renewed. It was just renewed. So there's other parts of the story here, I think, for local, for the council members. And we have the salvage bid. We produced that bid. And we would be an interested bidder in perhaps the full takeover. We didn't know the scope of the work. We have a software program that's perhaps not VMS, but we do have our own towing platform. We tow cars. We bring the cars to us for our operation in Minnesota. um but so we but without without the scope of work and what what we would know or what's necessary we work with the officers at the impound day in day out and if it was something that was there was a problem or it wasn't working we're not aware of it because we use planet bids for that platform to see if there was going to be a bid um the full circle purpose of you poll uh the council of men is we the cars are depolluted locally um we set them out and the citizens of toledo buy parts off the cars in uh in in the last year we've had about 43 000 attendees spending on average 30 to 35 dollars per admission to fix their car and keep it on the road in toledo so we are those those customers are in and around the city, and we believe that we're an asset to keep driving affordable for the citizens of Toledo, because those cars are put on stands at North Detroit Avenue. Whatever we buy from there is available for the citizens of Toledo to pull the parts off of. a full circle a full circle explanation of what happens to the cars when they go to salvage and what happens to the constituents in the city is this is a benefit for the citizens not only in the revenue that we pay the city for our bid that we have at 595 there was 1.1 $1,104,915 that we paid from May to May for what we paid for the salvage units, and then also what the citizens of Toledo are able to pull the parts off of and put on their own cars locally. So we believe there's a full story to having a local supplier, a local recycler do that work.

Okay. Mr. Maltese, did I say it right? Did you have something to say?

Okay. Any questions for us? One question for you.

You said that you do have the... You do have a system, but it's just not on the level of their system as far as cars and that type of thing.

Right, so for towing purposes on what we do, when we buy cars from the general public on somebody who is end of life or do that stuff, we have an integrated system that is, we need to pick up your vehicle at this time, at this place, to the scale that is what the city is towing right now, not at the moment. but i but i don't but i didn't i don't know what that would look like if we needed that right so without knowing what the scope of work may or may not be uh we do have tow trucks in minnesota we have seven of them at our facility there we have two on property here in ohio or in toledo but to the scope of what that looks like i don't know uh what would what would be needed but but we would be interested in perhaps looking at it if we knew what was necessary or what needed. Thank you, sir.

Thank you. Do I have a representative from, is it Pamela Rose?

Thank you.

Is Mr. Haynes here? Did I see him? Okay, I'll just make sure you got, there you go, thank you. All right.

This is also my son, Jordan Rose. He works with us. He may add a few comments. So thank you for allowing me to speak. It's very important to me. So good evening. My name is Pamela Rose. I'm with the Pamela Rose Auction Company. I do have a contract with the city. I didn't bring it with me, but I've got it. I have been involved in auction professions since I was 18 years old. So I'll let you figure out how old I am. Working alongside my father, what has become a lifelong career, my passion in the auction industry. It's my hobby, my sport. I love it. I work all the time. I always feel like I know everyone in Toledo. I've also worked the impound auction since I was 19 years old, giving me decades of firsthand operational experience with how the city's vehicle disposal process functions completely. Over my career, I've conducted more than 30,000 auctions. I thought about bringing my wagon in here because I have really kept a copy of everything I've ever done, done a lot of auctions. involving municipal assets, vehicles, real estate, commercial liquidations, industrial properties throughout Ohio, Michigan, and across the United States. I'm a graduate and Hall of Fame member of the Ruppert Auction School of Auctioneering. I'm a lifetime member of the National Auctioneers Association, auctioneers from all over the country I network with, and that's where we get our education. I'm a graduate of Certified Auctioneers Institute at Indiana University. I also serve as an instructor at the Ruppert School of Auctioneering. In addition, I was appointed by Governor Kasich to serve two terms on the Ohio Auction Commission, where I participated in oversight of licensing and regulatory standards in helping rewrite the Ohio Revised Code 4707 for Ohio Auctioneering. I am fully licensed. I am bonded, which is regulated in the state of Ohio. As far as I can tell, the other firm is not licensed to protect the public, ensure accountability and safeguard public funds. Throughout my career, I've handled major regional and national projects, including the Dana Corporation auction. the headquarters, the Ford Industry Square, the French Quarter, and the former headquarters and relocation of the Andersons. That's just a few to mention. I also did the Dunbar auction, which generated $23 million, which was the largest auction in the state of Ohio. OUR FIRM HAS PROVIDED AUCTION AND ASSET SERVICES FOR MAJOR INSTITUTIONS INCLUDING GE FRANCHISE AND BANK OF AMERICA, FIRST FEDERAL OF THE MIDWEST, WEBCO, HUNTINGTON NATIONAL BANK, AND I CAN GO ON AND ON. HAPPY TO SUPPLY THAT INFORMATION. Locally, our firm, again, conducted the Dunbar auction at $23 million in assets sold. We've also achieved significant high-value results in individual transactions, including a collector car that sold for $225,000 that I shipped to the state of California. Okay, I'll speed it up. But we've done numerous autos. We just shipped, matter of fact, one of the police boats went to California, and I wish I had the picture because they had sent it to me. This year alone, we have sold and shipped three vehicles to California, demonstrating our national reach and the ability to move assets across state lines. Our sales reach expands Ohio, Michigan, and across the United States with consistent participation from national and out-of-state buyers. In just the last five years, the City of Toledo auction program has generated $3.4 million that I've paid the city. That's not for the ones with U-pull parts, that's the ones I've sold. documented revenue through 16 public auctions, including 1,264 vehicles sold. This equates to $212,000 per auction and a nearly $2,700 average on the vehicles that I've sold. Importantly, that does not include additional revenue generated through your fixed price with non-operable salvage and scrap vehicles. These are documented results, not projections or assumptions. The current system at the impound is working. This discussion arose in connection with the proposed transition to VMS and is important that Council base any decision on documented results rather than projections or statements that we think or we hope the auction can do more. Public revenue decisions should be grounded in verified performance, not assumptions without supporting data. It is important to recognize that changes to establish auction processes can also reduce the revenue spending and buyer participation, market reach, and competition are affected. The proceeds from the impound auctions go directly to the city's general fund. THE KEY POINT IS THAT THE PROGRAM IS NOT THEORETICAL IT IS FUNCTIONING STREAM THAT HAS CONSISTENTLY REPRODUCED MEASURABLE RESULTS FOR CITY OF TOLEDO AUCTION PERFORMANCE IS NOT CREATED BY SOFTWARE ALONE IT IS CREATED BY EXPERIENCE MARKETING REACH BUYER RELATIONSHIPS COMPLIANCE AND THE ABILITY TO CREATE TRUE COMPETITIVE BIDDING IT IS IMPORTANT To diminish between asset types, many impound and non-operable vehicles are sold into salvaged dismantling markets because they are burned or wrecked or scrapped units. Those should not be sold at auction. Those vehicles are valued primarily for material recovery based on scrap. Any proposed change involving public auction services should be evaluated based on documented performance and accountability. Ohio is a licensed and regulated auction state for a reason, to protect the public and the public funds. Any entity involved in public auction services should be properly licensed, bonded, and fully accountable under Ohio law. Public decisions involving taxpayer assets should be based on documented results, measurable performance, not assumptions that a different system would perform better without evidence and reports. At the end of the day, This is protecting taxpayer value, maintaining public trust, ensuring that the city continues to receive strong results. And I am passionate, but I live here, and I am a national firm, and I can support all of this. So maybe people didn't know, but now you know. I am a superstar in the auction industry. People all over the United States know exactly who I am. And I've done this a very long time, so I did, and I can pass this out, I do have some statistical information, but my percentage of out-of-state buyers is higher. I'll hand it to you. Thank you, Ms. Rose. That is a white, okay, and I'll finish up. Thank you, Ms. Rose. It's a white label platform. I also sell online on the national platform. Thank you, Ms. Rose. Thank you, Mr. Hobbs. Thank you. Oh, there was somebody that didn't sign up, Mr. Kareem, but okay.

Thank you, Mr. Haynes.

Thank you, councilpersons. I guess I'd like to open up with the chief and I are most certainly on board with each other with talking with where our records people go and stuff like that. We are not at odds one way or the other. So there is dialogue and there is a path forward with us. So whatever decision you make, we most certainly are able to work with. So I don't want there to be any thoughts that there is not a path forward between the chief and I and how our people operate. that's number one number two is I've had conversations with my people in the tow lot of course they feel that they do a very professional job out there may or may not have been an insinuation that they may not but they are I believe they are and they do like being out there in the tow lot so that is just kind of here and there I will say mostly we do have a contract with outside communities and I just want to make sure that they were aware that our tow lot will be or could possibly be with the private entity and that that's okay with them we actually currently have a grievance with that and I wouldn't want that to fall in between the cracks while we do this transfer with the tow lot that most certainly can be addressed down the road but it just I don't want the sins of the past to just disappear And this is more of a question for the VMS company, is how do they deal with warrants and suspended operators when they show up? Do they have the ability to run people and find out if they have warrants? Or if they're suspended, or will they be driving suspended cars off the lot and then potentially causing problems or liabilities? And although they might sign a contract that says they are they take the liability hit on everything, you can bet your bottom dollar that someone's going to come through the city too. That's just kind of how that always works. Excuse me. have a question on and like i said i don't think that these are questions necessarily for you guys to answer but maybe just questions that i have more for transparency of the company as you guys as we would inquire more i'm not only as my position in the union but also my you know as a citizen i'm a citizen of toledo i've lived in toledo my whole life i'm proud to be an officer and still live in the city so As far as the fees for towing, towing fees, storage fees, any fees that are assimilated with the tow lot, will we still maintain the ability to control those fees or will we relinquish those to the private entity? And will the private entity then hike those fees up unnecessarily or whatever? That's somewhat of a concern. And if it is just that easy, then why aren't we just hiking the fees up and just taking it ourself, such as the trash fees? So I have that. I'm sure that since VMS is such a large national company not that I have any suggestions that they don't but how do we handle and maybe you guys know but I do not know it's just more is there an answer to what happens when they find contraband or whatever however infrequently it may be in cars is there a path to taking care of that and I believe the chief said there was a liaison so probably that will be handled through the liaison so I understand that also more importantly I do have some QUESTIONS, PROBLEMS WITH THE NUMBERS, AS YOU JUST MOVE THE COLUMNS DOWN IN BASIC ADDITION AND SUBTRACTION, THE YEARS OF 21, 22, 23, 24, AND 25 BETWEEN THE TOTAL REVENUES MINUS THE SUBTOTAL EXPENDITURES, THAT MATH JUST DOESN'T MATH. So I don't know if those are just typos or what, and it's only off by a little bit here and there, but if we're talking a little bit here and there, well, that's a little bit here and there. So more specifically, what I have somewhat of a doubt about is where VMS on the low end claims that their junk auto salvage on the low end is a one point six seven one in the high end of two point one four one that range is claiming that they will bring in another six hundred and thirty thousand to one point one million dollars better than our average of what we've done over the last several years that seems fairly incredulous to me it's a sixty two percent increase on the low end and a hundred and five percent increase on the high end i don't know how you can double the amount of a used car i mean even if you raise the price a little bit or jack it up a little bit, I don't see a 62% to 105% increase on any scrap and or used vehicle at an auction. However, I will say using VMS's numbers that was just given right here as we sit, he says our average sell car or something like that is a $725 value and their value is in the range of 950 to 975. Quick mathematics on my little phone is a maximum of a 31% increase. So even with the usage of their own number, they don't match the 62 to 105% difference. I find that to be very telling and I could be wrong. But those are the numbers that I am presented and the numbers that are given here are given to you guys. On line 53, excuse me, 5374-10, contractual services. When you carry that line, if you go to the 26 adopted, and it doesn't really matter which year you pick, but the 26 adopted is 1.472. When you look over into the low end and the high end, it's the 2.196. That is my assumption that that's just the fee to the company. Now, if there is still a – and this was not – clear to me either if vms well they did say that they're using our tow companies so a portion of that 1.472 million is not kickbacks but money that is a portion back to the tow companies for towing that is not included in the 2.196 so that number will be higher or it should be higher as reported on both the low and the high end I'm not sure what the cost is for the Pamela Rose portion of it, which they will incur because they have their own type of auction thing. And that is what it is. But there is still, even at a 40 or 30% rate, you can add another $400,000 to that 2.196. And according to the chart under letter C, in year three, it goes to 2.471. Yes, sir. I'll be very brief. I'm almost finished. so they're this is based on their first two years i'm pretty sure their third fourth and fifth year they'll be at the 2.47 million um and go from there so i guess um that changes those numbers drastically on the and if we're talking marginal at best anything else you have for us mr haynes please by referral i'm sorry sir i said can we please submit anything else we have by referral of course i'm not i'm not very sure about that but of course we can thank you sir I guess I would just like to finish with there's a lot of moving parts and with a marginal. I understand, but I gave double the time to our last two speakers, please. Wonderful, thank you.

Thank you, sir.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

Please contact Mr. Haynes with any further questions. Okay, I need to move. Is this something you can submit, Councilman, by referral? All right, thank you. The last part of this I need to get to, I want to thank everyone for being here and everything that came forth. Thank our chief, thank VM, thank our union, thank you, Ms. Rose, thank you for everyone being here. And if you have any further questions, please, please submit them by referral. i still have to get to um councilwoman um kramer and then richard still has a question to ask so thank you all thank you thank you councilwoman kramer is going to present now our gun violence awareness sister sisters for unity councilwoman kramer

Thank you, Chair. Yeah, I would like to welcome Aviance Hill and Janelle Ector up to the microphones. They are co-founders of Sisters for Unity. Thank you so much for sticking around, being willing to share your expertise with us today. June is Gun Violence Awareness Month, so it's very important to us to plan some activities around honoring our survivors and to make sure Toledoans know about all of the great agencies that are doing the work here. So ladies, I will turn it over to you. You're going to need to push the button on the microphone there.

Thank you, ladies, for being here today. Thank you so much.

Thank you for having us. Good afternoon. My name is Janelle Ector. I am one of the co-founders of Sisters for Unity. And also a member of Northwest Ohio Parents of Murdered Children. I am also the mother of Treasure Wiley, whose murder remains unsolved since 2019. There's a different kind of pain that comes with not having answers. Every day, families like mine wake up wondering, who knows something? Who stayed silent? Will we ever get justice? Will our loved one's case ever matter enough? And unsolved homicide leaves families trapped in a cycle of grief, uncertainty, and fear. You replay moments over and over in your mind. You question everything. You carry hope and heartbreak at the same time. And while the world moves on, families are still waiting. We're waiting for answers, accountability, and closure that may never fully come. Gun violence impacts our entire communities a long time after the crime scene is cleared. Children are affected, parents are affected, schools are affected, neighborhoods are affected. And survivors often become responsible for helping hold families and communities together while we ourselves are grieving. That's why prevention matters. That is why intervention matters. That is why community partnerships matter so much in the work that we do. And that is why families impacted by violence need support, resources, communication, and a seat at the table. The work being done through Sisters for Unity and Northwest Ohio Parents of Murdered Children is rooted in lived experience And survivor support. We are helping families not only survive tragedy, but navigate what comes after, which is grief support, emotional support, survivor outreach, healing events, wellness initiatives, violence prevention efforts, advocacy, communities against violence marches, unity day events, compassion companion support. which is vital in holding families together, survivor baskets with household and emergency essentials, and blessing cleanings for families impacted by trauma and loss. This is one that's near and dear to my heart. When I lost my son, it was at home. There was no resource for me to do what they call a biohazard cleaning, which basically I, me and his godmom scrubbed my son's remains off the sidewalk at my home. Um, that is something now that is offered through funding through North Ohio Parents of Murdered Children. I know firsthand how important this service is. Could you imagine the trauma? You just held your son as he took his last breath. You come back from the hospital and the questions of the detectives, and now you must also clean the quarantine. Um, because after loss, people don't think about the funerals and flowers. They don't think about the silent things grief steals from families. Laundry piles up, dishes sit untouched, toilet paper runs out, soap runs out. Sometimes families are just trying to survive the next hour. That is why these services matter and are so very, very important. Good afternoon. Thank you for having us again. Thank you, Erin, for inviting us.

My name is Aviance Hill. I'm the mother of Isaac Carpenter, a victim of gun violence here in Toledo. I am also co-founder of Sisters for Unity and chapter leader of Northwest Ohio Parents of Murdered Children. I'm here today not just as an advocate, but as a mother of a surviving something no parent should ever have to survive. Gun violence does not end when the shooting stops. For families like ours, it changes everything. It changes how we sleep, how we parent, how we grieve, how we function financially, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. And often survivors are expected to somehow carry all of that quietly while still trying to survive every day. That reality impacts not only me, but my surviving children, my grandson, and our entire family system and our community as well. Public safety can not only mean responding after violence happened, public safety must also include the trauma support, the survivor support, the prevention, youth intervention, mental health access, safe community spaces, retaliation prevention, support for surviving siblings and children, because survivors are often trying to hold entire families together after the tragedy, but also our communities, our neighbors, our friends and our family. Many of us become crisis responders without the training. We become grief counselors to our children, protectors, advocates, funeral planners, and community voices, all while grieving ourselves. Through Sisters for Unity and Northwest Ohio Parents of Murdered Children, we work every day, we train, we advocate, we go to convenings, we learn, we educate ourselves, we become those trained responders. We've become from lived experience to being experienced. That work includes Community Violence Intervention Network and the work We've also, the blessings cleaning, like Janelle mentioned, for families impacted by trauma and loss. Survivor baskets filled with everyday essentials that often disappear during grief and crisis, including the toiletries, the tissues, the soap, laundry detergent, water, gift cards, household necessities, and now gun locks. Thank you, Erin. Compassion, companion support, a hope line. We don't call it a crisis line because we don't want people to know that every minute of every day is not a crisis, so it's a hope line. So when they call, When it's answered, it's hope. Survivor retreat, wellness day, so survivors know we give them a spa day. Erin has been responsible, she's been welcome to that. Phone calls, communities against violence marches and unity days. You guys know our next one is coming up, August 22nd. You've been to that. And our ongoing survivor and advocate outreach and workshops. These are the things that many families need immediately after the tragedy, but too often they are navigating alone. Some of these resources and support systems do not exist when families like ours experience loss. They do exist now, and they will always exist as long as we have breath. This is why this work matters. We need survivor-informed policy. Nothing about survivors should happen without survivors being included at the table. Our lived experiences matter. Organizations like Sisters for Unity and Northwest Ohio Parents of Murdered Children are doing critical work in this city, but we need continued collaboration, investment, and support, not just during Awareness Month in June, not just after tragedies, but consistently every day. Every night. My son Isaac should still be here. Treasure Wiley should still be here. And so many other families and family members and our community members, our neighbors, our friends, our families, our coworkers should still be here. We cannot change what happens to our families, but we can decide what kind of city we will become because of it. We will learn from the lives that we lost, the families that we lost, the friends that we lost.

Public safety must include the people we left behind.

And thank you.

Councilwoman Kramer, you want to speak to your locks at the libraries, please?

I do, yes. Thank you very much to both of you for being here today, for sitting through our lovely discussion about the impound lot. But really, thank you for all you do every single day. I have learned so much from you all and all of the gun violence prevention advocates in Toledo. When I started this work, it was because I was worried about school shootings. and I've learned so much about what happens right here in our city and all of those individuals who have been lost and all the families who have a hole because of those people who have been lost. So thank you so much for being here and for all that you do. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. I do want to invite Lucas Camuso-Stahl from the library to come up. He's going to speak to our gun locks. So as you guys were talking about, we're very excited that we have gun locks in all of our libraries now. And Lucas did provide a very exciting update about that. So he's behind just so he's just going to talk for a minute about that.

Hello everyone, council members. I'm Lucas Camuso-Stahl, Chief of Staff at the Toledo-Lucas County Public Library. Firstly to you two, thank you so much for sharing your stories and for your great community work that you're doing. We very much so appreciate it. Just a really quick update on gun locks at the library. So I think tomorrow marks exactly one month since we launched Toledo-Lucas County Public Library branches serving as locations that anyone in our community can come and get a free They have to be over the age of 18. They can request up to two locks at their visit. But otherwise, no questions asked. And I think this is another testimony to how public libraries continuously step up to share all forms of information. And in this circumstance, hopefully we can share some life-saving tools and life-saving information on gun safety. But again, as I just noted, we haven't even hit a full month, and we have already distributed 466 gun locks across all of our locations, which is an amazing statistic. some of our locations that are very high performers are both our urban and suburban alike we've distributed uh let's see 21 gun locks at our holland branch 22 at our lagrange branch 19 at mommy 30 at oregon 65 gun locks at sanger 18 at west toledo 82 at sylvania so again we're meeting a need of community members all across lucas county which is exactly what we want this program to do So, I thank the council for, again, constantly coming to the library and collaborating with us and finding out ways that you can partner with the library. We are a public resource. We're a public platform. And please use us as such. And thank you, Councilwoman Kramer, for being such a wonderful partner in this work as well. We really appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you, Lucas, for all you do for our library system. And I am just blown away by how many gun locks we've given away already. We have to get some more and we are getting them for free from the VA health care system in Ann Arbor. So that is very important. But yeah, I think it's very important because we did make that decision to distribute them throughout the whole county. they are at all of the branches of the Toledo Lucas County Public Library system and We do have a copy of the numbers over there if anybody wants to grab it Because you know, it does show that our suburban areas are also seeking those So I do plan to talk to the Lucas County Commissioners a little bit about you know Spreading the love for the gun locks a little I do also just want to point out quickly because I know we've been here a little while but we do have a flyer on the table over there all the council people have these as well about all of the things that we are doing for gun violence awareness month and i know the sisters for unity are partners on some of these things um but we do have national gun violence awareness day where we will be reading the names of all of the people who were killed by gun violence in 2025. That is going to be on June 5th. At the June 9th council meeting, we will be declaring June as National Gun Violence Awareness Month. And then we will have an unwanted firearms disposal drive-through event on June 13th. So if you know anybody who has firearms that they want to get rid of, they maybe inherited them and they don't want them anymore, they can get a gift card and they you know if they want to come they can make art out of disposed guns so that's going to be a really great event and that's at Monroe Street United Methodist Church and then we will also have a gun violence prevention panel where we will have some great guest speakers and Aviance will be there as well so thank you so much for giving me this opportunity and I'll give it back to the chair

All right. Thank you so much. I have participated in several of your events at the libraries and been in the parade a few times. And when I couldn't walk in the parade, I got there after the parade but was at the park walking around. So this is amazing. Good to see you, Lucas. Haven't seen you in a while. Thank you for helping us with this. And so we continue, you know, Councilwoman Kramer is leading the charge. It is going to get done. And we are all committed to this work. And that's why I thought it was so important that she be here. We talk about this today. Thank you, ladies. Thank you. from Lieutenant Gina Shabetta, SERP Bureau Supervisor. She just wanted us to know Toledo Fire and Rescue Department is committed to helping keep our residents safe through fire prevention and early detection initiatives. Free smoke alarms are available to residents at Toledo fire stations while supplies last. We encourage residents to contact their local fire station for availability. In addition, the american red cross partners with toledo fire department to provide smoke alarm installations for residents in need while supplies and program support remains available residents may schedule an appointment for a smoke alarm instant installation by contacting the american red cross smoke alarm program directly 419-380-011 thank you as we continue to work together And last but not least, he has waited a long time, but he knows how this goes. Richard has a question, comment for us. Thank you, ladies.

Richard Arnold, thank you for the opportunity to speak. I will be brief. If you recall, on March the 12th, there was an incident in West Bloomfield, Michigan, where a man drove his truck into a synagogue. He was loaded with explosives and cans of gasoline. There were more than 100 children in attendance. As it turns out, he only injured a security guard and ended up taking his own life by shooting himself. And remember, this is only like six months after an attack at Grand Blanc. That was the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Very similar. So at the press conference, they revealed the timeline. At approximately 12.19, the attack occurred, and about seven minutes later at 12.26, the man's neighbors called the local police and asked for a welfare check because for days he had been acting erratically. At the press conference, it was made very clear. Had that call come in earlier, we might have prevented this, and that's certainly a possibility. And their advice for the public was, in these turbulent times, let's err on the side of caution. Anything that you see from your neighbors, call the local police. Now, I have a problem with that, and I just wanted to express that. Could this committee look at what are we doing in Toledo? How many welfare checks are Toledo police doing? And what are the results? How many result in someone being taken to a mental health facility, taken to jail, a deceased individual, or a false alarm and no need for police intervention? and can we use that information in a public awareness campaign when should you call tpd for a welfare check and when you might call other resources in the community if you have concerns about a friend family or neighbor because across the country we're seeing so many tragedies where someone calls in a report on an emotionally disturbed person and when the police get there things escalate quickly and things turn tragic very quickly we've seen that a few times in toledo and i don't want to see it again so could this committee look at how many welfare checks are tpd doing and what are the results of those welfare checks thank you for the opportunity to speak thank you richard thank you so much and we will definitely get those questions to the chief i believe my aide andrea has those questions and we will get those to the chief

Thank you. All right. I really appreciate my fellow council members who have come here today and everyone's ready to start their holiday weekend. But I thank you for the heart for public safety. The summer months are coming. We know for some reason heat always seems to give rise to violent occurrences. And so we are hoping

Come on sir, come on sir.

No problem.

You have three minutes, sir. Yes, sir.

I've typed a letter here for everyone. My name's Shannon Cameron of Toledo Lock and Key. I've worked with the Toledo Police Impound since 2001, so the last 25 years. And they've trusted me to open their When vehicles show up locked, some may have contraband, some may have firearms. I personally have had to alert the police at the impound. Sometimes there's drugs packaged for distribution. I'll give you one case. There was an AK-47 with several loaded magazines and half a five gallon bucket full of loose ammunition. I mean, there's some serious stuff that turns up in some of these cars sometimes. And I'm not only concerned about losing my position out there, which I'll be honest with you, I am, but also a private entity coming upon some of these items that are found in some of these vehicles is quite scary. And without police being right there to be able to deal with it, I'm a little concerned about that. evidence while these vehicles are in there because they were involved in a crime please can't get in the trunk and there's the chain of evidence thing I was personally involved in an armed robbery I was robbed gunpoint on April 10 vehicle showed up at the impound lot that they stole actually smash into the back of my van and grab me at gunpoint piece of equipment and I was really worried about these people not being prosecuted because if they didn't find the vehicle or something was tampered with in the vehicle, because I know that they did DNA. Long story short, everything was fine, the suspects in custody is waiting trial and stuff like that. But I'm just kind of worried about that as well because there's a lot of sensitive things that can be in some of these vehicles. and that's basically all I had to say but I do have a letter that I typed up yesterday if I could

give it to you guys and i again i apologize thank you again sir i apologize i did not have your information so i apologize but thank you for thinking enough to come here and share your heart today and write the letter we appreciate every input of every citizen that's what we're here for and i apologize that i did not correctly get that information to you for you to know what to do

Oh, I didn't know. I just found out about this yesterday.

That's on me. I take all responsibility. That's on me, and I apologize. But thank you for waiting, and thank you for coming.

Well, thank you for letting me speak. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, if that be all, this meeting is adjourned.

Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes the best comments come from those who don't speak much. So what is it? What's your perspective on this?

Yeah. Honestly, I kept wanting to hit my button, and then somebody would ask the question that I had. So it's almost like Jeopardy where you've got to be quick on the buzzer. But, no, I am really looking at the math and looking at, you know, it's a very expensive contract. Yeah. yes yeah so 2.4 million dollars that's a lot of money and as president williams was saying if this is going to be more money that is coming into the city great but we don't have any guarantee that it's going to be more money coming into the city so i think there's a lot of reservations on all of council do you have any like do you what is your your personal yeah i do have reservations you know listening to you know the folks that were as well as, you know, Pamela Rose was here, Patrick McKinney was here, people who make their living at the TOLA right now. And so, I mean, yeah, I mean, there are serious reservations because really they're saying, okay, we're going to pay that $2.4 million with more money that's going to be generated from selling these cars. And, you know, like somebody was saying earlier, the math's not mathing for me. That's tough. So I think

Do you, because there's a chance it'll come up Tuesday.

Yes, yeah.

Can I just get a prediction of what you're going to vote on?

I'm not sure, actually. I mean, there's a lot of information to read. There was a lot of, you heard, referrals. So there's going to be a lot of referral information coming in the next couple days. So I'm hoping to be able to read that stuff. single vote that we take i want to make sure i'm as educated as i can be because this is money that is taxpayer money and i do not take that lightly yeah yeah oh you're welcome yeah yeah no problem at all

Yeah, I believe...

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Amen.

Thank you.