City Council - Regular Meeting

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Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the City of Titusville City Council regular meeting, July 28th, 2026 at 630, now starting at 739. I call this meeting to order. City Attorney, do we have a quorum?

Yes.

Thank you very much. We're going to have a moment of silence in place of our invocation. Thank you very much. Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. Thank you very much. Hopefully everybody on the dais has had a chance to read the memo from our city clerk regarding a couple amendments to the minutes. With that being said, Member Nelson.

Move to approve the minutes of the regular meeting on May 26th. Second.

Does that include the adopted changes?

Yes.

Second still stands. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much. City Manager.

Yes, sir. Moving on. We have no special recognitions and presentations. We had plenty of those in the previous meeting. Moving on to boards and commissions are one item and is the Board of Adjustments and Appeals. And the recommended action is to appoint three regular members to the Board of Adjustments and Appeals for two year terms to expire on July 31st, 2028. If the alternate member is not appointed as a regular member to reappoint one alternate members of the BA for a two year term to expire on July 31st, 2028. In the terms of regular members, John Green, Thomas Taylor. Dr Gina Beckles and alternate member Karshonda right expired on July 31st, 2026 and regular member Thomas Taylor is not seeking reappointment. And regular member. Members John Green and Dr. Gina Beckles have expressed their willingness and desire to continue serving on this board. And alternate member Kashonda Wright has expressed her willingness and desire to serve on the board as a regular member for a two-year term to expire on July 31st, 2028. Thank you, City Manager, City Clerk. I apologize.

We actually, I don't think we have any for that item. No, we do. Stan Johnston.

Thank you for this opportunity to speak to you and also these applicants for the Board of Adjustment. And I want them to understand that those who are the applicants is that this is not necessarily a compliment to be awarded for these four people, excluding Mrs. Moscoso, because if you've heard it from before, as I've told you about their dishonesty, and they're just, it's horrible, the shysters. And as far as I'm concerned, they're not blessing you when they give you their opinion that you're doing right.

Mr. Johnson, your caution for being off topic.

Okay, I think that they should consider who's voting them in. In this case, the guys that are right here are the same as the crooks, the four crooks. Okay, do you understand that? I want you to understand. Do you understand that, Mr. Conner?

Have a seat, Mr. Johnson.

Okay, do you understand? Can you answer my question?

You're out of order. Have a seat.

Okay, no, I said could you answer the question?

Have a seat or I'm going to ask you to leave. Okay, thank you. Thank you. City Clerk, anybody else? All right. City Council? Member Nelson?

I would move to appoint John Green to an additional three, two years for BAA.

Second. A motion for Member Green. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Member Nelson?

I'd further move to reappoint Gina Beckles to BAA for two years.

Second. A motion by Member Nelson, second by Member Cole. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Member Nelson?

Third motion would be to appoint Kashonda Wright, who is an alternate as a regular member.

for two years second motion by member nelson second by member cole is there any further discussion seeing none all those in favor say aye any opposed motion carries unanimously thank you very much and then we're still looking for an alternate member correct all right all right that item is completed now we're to petitions and requests from the public non-agenda items who would like to go first Ms. Toney, I think he's leaving. Mr. Johnson, Ms. Toney's coming up.

Shiffalo Historic Norwood House. I stand to speak against the superfluous hiring of a public information officer. It's a waste of taxpayers' money to hire a person to fill a job that is being done excellently already, along with the other duties by your community relations manager, Kurt Corwin. He really knows his stuff. He knows the media technology, has great artistic style in producing the city's messages to the public. He's a very diplomatic representative to the city government. I was here. Let me just make an aside from my speech. I was here the day that the police chief information hit the public. And I just happened to be here on something else. But I was outside when all those press people came and Kurt finally came out and made a statement. And it was so clear and so interesting. informational without telling anything at all. It was so diplomatic. I just loved it. He's a great representative for the city and he knows the audience the city is trying to reach for each message that he produces and delivers on social media and on your website. His use of drone footage makes clear visuals of whatever project is being highlighted. It's excellent. His postings to social media are engaging and timed to feature various events, posted enough to entice but not too many times to be annoying. He's got good timing. He's very generous with his skills to illustrate the narratives for city-sponsored projects. When the Historic Preservation Board created a unit on mid-century modern architecture in town, Kurt wrote and produced a short but explanatory segment that boosted the knowledge of the project and the Historic Preservation Board to the public. by filming the various exemplary mid-century modern houses, businesses, and neighborhoods. I think he's doing an excellent job. He should be your communications director. He should be in charge of the whole department. He is doing a fantastic job of letting the public know what you are accomplishing, as well as some of the advisory boards, too. So I just want to plug... Bravo for Kurt Corwin. Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Tony. I just wanted to point out information, you know, for everybody. I'm just going to read from Article 2, Section 18 under the council provisions. Council not to interfere with the appointments or removals. Neither the council nor any of its members shall direct or request the appointment of any person to or his removal from office by the city manager or by any of his subordinates. or in any manner take part in the appointment or removal of officers and employees in the administrative services of the city. Except for the purposes of inquiry, the council and its members shall deal with the administrative services solely through the city manager, and neither the council nor member, therefore, shall give orders to any subordinates of the city manager, either publicly or in private. So we appreciate you cheering on a person, but that's not what this board does. Thank you. Exactly. Member Nelson.

Can we say Curtis has done a great job and we all appreciate it.

Happy to cheer him on. Mr. Johnson, would you like to go next?

We're polite tonight.

I wanted to talk about something that happened last night and that is we had an individual not a very savory, probably, individual come into our city and our license plate readers said, hey, he's in town. I am a full supporter of what we call flock cameras. I congratulated the police. I told you guys I have three brothers that were Denver police officers. I fully support them in everything that they can do. And these cameras, and we're full of cameras. Hey, I'm not a camera. Tell us everything we need to know. They help these guys. And last night, they did a great job, the cameras. I congratulate cameras. Please. If you want to take them down, rethink that. Really, seriously, rethink that. Last night, they did what they're supposed to do. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Hello, my name is David Halbritter, and I'm here to say that I disagree with the flight cameras, and I disagree with the speed cameras. The speed cameras are confusing. There's two different speed zones. You can get a ticket at 41 or 46, but who knows which one you're in. It's confusing, especially if you have dementia, which I have a little bit of it, and it's confusing, and nobody's talking about it or anything. I think people in Titusville, I think they should explain to us what's going on, and I don't like it. That's all I've got to say.

Thank you, sir. Mr. Johnson.

Hello. Thank you to the United States Constitution for allowing me to step forward. I know I don't have it from here. I don't have your support. But anyhow, again, I'm trying to get you all to find somebody who will support you in the professional engineering profession. Right now, I can't find any of your people employees or 40,000 professional engineers from the city of... Florida Board of Professional Engineers, 40,000, not one of them. And here's some of the things they won't support you in. They won't support you in the illegal dams, numerous illegal dams in the city of Texas. They won't do it. They won't do it. They won't do it. They won't do it. They won't support you in your sustainability reports. They won't do it. They won't do it. They're false sustainability reports, and they won't do it in spraying people with piss and poop. They won't do it because they're against engineering principles. They're against logic. They're against many things. But what do you do? The city does goes ahead and does it anyways. And anyways, it doesn't matter. So what I've done today is is yesterday I sent you an email entitled cities and police departments persecution of me. My family, my engineering profession and my God. That's what you guys are against. You're against. I mean, you had the city manager and the chief of police come to my pastor, Pastor Yooks, and tell him, oh my goodness, Stan Johnson is horrible. He's a terrorist. Something like that. It's just complete nonsense. That's what I get from the city of Titusville. Dishonesty, shysters, dishonesty. All four of you, not five. That comes from Ms. Moscoso. Okay, so the thing is, I have no respect for you. And you're just shysters. And you need to repent. You need to really repent. You need to, when you look in the mirror, say, who am I looking at? When you look in the mirror. Because you're not, you're ugly. It's the ugly truth of what you got. And I have no sense of respect for you because of what you've done. And you continue doing it. You continue doing it in spite of 40,000 people against you. Over 40,000 people against you say that you're nonsense and you're foolish. Over 40,000. That's professional engineers. I can't think of one professional engineer in the state of Florida that will support you because you're dishonest. You're dishonest. You're not a little bit dishonest. You've gone way, way, when you spray people with piss and poop, you've gone way, way out of order. And the dams are foolish too. So anyhow, all right, stop the spraying. Thank you very much.

Any questions? Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

Any questions? Okay.

Anybody else for petitions or requests on agenda items? Seeing none, moving on to ordinances. I believe this is the first reading about a public hearing. Sure. 9A.

9A is the ordinance number 15-2026, cell towers and community commercial CC zoning district. And the action is to conduct the first reading, the first of two public hearings of ordinance number 15-2026. And Mr. Eddie Glendow from community development will read the ordinance for the record.

Thank you, city manager. Good evening, council. This item begins on page 41 of tonight's 223 page packet, I'll read the summary. Section 34-37 of the code allows the City Council or a property owner or their authorized agent to request changes to the land development regulations. These changes may include additions, deletions, or revisions and must follow the same review process as a rezoning application. If a proposed change affects the comprehensive plan, it must also be processed as a comprehensive plan amendment. The city received an application to amend the land development regulations to allow transmission towers in the CC zoning district through a conditional use permit, the CUP. Currently, transmission towers are only permitted with a CUP in industrial zoning districts, the M1, M2, M3, and PID. The applicant has identified a wireless coverage gap in an area of the city where no industrially zoned properties are available. Pursuant to Florida Statute Section 365-172, subsection 13B3, the applicant has contacted the City to discuss potential solutions to address the coverage deficiency and the limitations of the current regulations. Attached is the applicant's proposed ordinance. If Council is inclined to approve the ordinance, then staff would recommend certain performance conditions be added, including distances and screening. On page 43 is the ordinance title. I'll read that as this is the first public reading on this item. An ordinance of the city of Titusville, Florida amending the code of ordinances to allow transmission towers as a conditional use in the community commercial CC zoning district by mending sections 28-54 use table and section 28-20 transmission tower providing for severability, repeal of conflicting ordinances, incorporation into the code, and effective date. On page 44 is the city's use table. And you'll see in the row for transmission towers and the column for CC zoning district, there's an addition, the letter C, which would allow transmission towers in this zoning district with a conditional use permit, which is a public hearing process that would come before both planning and zoning and city council. On page 46, Page 46 includes the conditional use standards. So if the ordinance is approved as written, there's some additional criteria that would be required if a transmission tower was proposed in the CC zoning district, and that is that they be located a minimum of one mile from the nearest transmission tower and must be located a minimum of 400 feet from a residential building. The enclosure shall be screened with an opaque solid fence and evergreen vegetation. Vegetation shall reach a minimum eight feet in height within one year of planting. And last, I'll point you to page 62. Page 62 is a map of cell towers throughout the city and where the proposed cell towers located next to Jackson Middle School in the CC zoning district. And what has happened is that because cell towers are permitted in industrially zoned properties, it's created a ring of cell towers with a gap in the middle of the city. And so this would address that gap. And I know the applicants here tonight and has a map that they would like to share with you as well in case you're ready for them to address you. Thank you.

Thank you very much, City Clerk. Are there any cards?

I have two cards, but the applicant has not one of them.

Okay. We'll let the applicant speak.

Okay.

Good evening. Mary Solick, 121 South Orange Avenue, Suite 1500, Orlando, Florida. I'm a legal counsel for Vertex Development, who is the applicant on this particular application. me on the ordinance or the need for it before I pass out a map that might help you?

I don't see any questions.

Okay. No? Okay.

I believe the map is also in our packet unless it's something new.

I sent this to the city staff in a PDF, but I knew you wouldn't be able to read it on the screen. While you're sitting down and starting to focus on that, my client, Vertex, is a tower developer. build wireless infrastructure, and then lease the towers to the wireless carriers that operate in your community. Right now you're down to three. There's three licensed carriers, AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon. Verizon came to my client and said, we need to get in the middle of the city, but we can't because there aren't any industrial zone properties in the middle of the city. So we looked at your ordinance. We looked at the existing towers and we figured out that there was a gap that we couldn't meet under your current ordinance. There is a state statute that allows us to approach your staff and tell them that we have this issue and ask them to work collaboratively with us to try to find a solution. That statute also allows the local. We have to. come to you with evidence that we've got this need and we've got a coverage gap that we can't fill with your existing regulations. And that ordinance also says that we submit the information to the staff. The staff can hire an independent engineer or consultant to review what we have determined, what will be submitted and determine whether we've met our burden of proof and that you can charge us for that fee. So that's what we, we connected your staff with an independent wireless consultant. That's Omnicon. Their report is in your package. and we paid for that fee, and Omnicon reviewed what we submitted and said, yes, there is a gap in the middle of your city. You do need to have, you should have additional coverage, and the optimal solution would be about a 150-foot tower somewhere in that area in the middle, and eventually the Omnicon consultant predicted that all of the carriers will co-locate on that tower given the urban density in Titusville. So what this map shows you is, The red triangles are all existing towers that are in your city. The lighter red color is towers that are within Titusville. The darker red are towers that are on Brevard County property. And you can kind of see they just go around the outside of your city. Around each one of those towers is a dotted dashed line, and that's a one-mile radius. And that's about the... the average area of coverage that the carriers get from an individual tower. And you can see from all of those rings, you've pretty much got your city covered except for in kind of in the middle. If you see where it says La Cita Golf and Country Club and to the left there's a blue star. And that blue star represents the commercial property that my client has secured a lease on. It's at Knox McCray and Barna. It's a vacant commercial property. And that blue dashed line would be the one-mile radius around that tower, and there are no industrial zone properties in that area that we could go on. So we're asking you to amend your code to allow towers to be conditional uses on CC-zoned properties. That means we still have to come back through the process with a conditional use application, go to the Planning and Zoning Board, come back to you, have public hearings and meet the conditional use criteria. So we'd like that commercial property to be treated just the same as the industrial zone properties. Um, we suspect that you might have a concern about opening the flood gates. Um, and practically speaking, we don't think that will happen for two reasons. First of all, we've worked with your staff to put two conditions in the ordinance which would require a mile separation between towers and that you have to be separated from residential properties by 400 feet. And that would eliminate a lot of your commercial properties because they couldn't meet those residential separation requirements. We can meet it at the Knox McCray Barna property. And also the yellow on this map is the commercial zone properties in your community. So if you look at that and you, you, kind of go look at each of those areas in relationship to an existing ring, you're not really seeing yellow colored properties that aren't being covered by an existing tower with a couple of exceptions. And one of those is down by the Space Coast Regional Airport. There's a lot of yellow property down there at the bottom. And there's a reason for that. That area will be limited by the airport. We can't, we wouldn't get FAA approval to put a tower that near to the airport. So I don't think you have to worry about an influx of tower development down there. So I hope this kind of gives you a practical lay of the land and it really kind of just comes down to we really just need one tower in the middle of your city. We think we can get it covered and We would not anticipate that you would see an influx of tower applications for commercial properties outside of the one that we have identified. And again, that is not what you're voting on in this ordinance. We'd have to come all the way back through the process. We're just trying to get a path forward so that we can bring it to you.

Any questions? I'm not seeing any.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Sorry. I do have a question. Thank you. Um, I know that we have in this ordinance, it's including some screening, but when you guys do your design, do you ever do stealth designs or, because this one is quite, it's located really close to a residential. I know it's within 400 feet, but, um, are you, do you do any stealth designs? Like I've seen the, the fake, uh, pine trees and things like that.

We do do some camouflage. We call them camouflage applications. We do some, um, And when we would bring an application forward to you, we would have to consider whether that would be an appropriate location to do it or what we think would be the best aesthetically compatible tower on that property. That would all be considered in the conditional use application. I will tell you, pine trees, I do cell tower zoning work all over the state of Florida. Pine trees are kind of polarizing. People love them or they hate them. They are not universally accepted. The Planning Commission, one of the Planning Commission members made a very good point. There's a really big power line that runs all the way down Knox-McCray on the south side of the road, and those poles are pretty, they wouldn't be as tall as a 150-foot tower on this property, but there is kind of an iron curtain of a power line along there, and people drive by there and just don't even notice them anymore. We have found that the monopole towers tend to be the least intrusive at the end of the day, but we'll certainly consider if we could get the opportunity to bring an application forward, we'll consider what we think would be the most aesthetically compatible with your city.

So, Eddie, this is a question for you. If we wanted to include something like that because you've included screening, would we put it in the ordinance or would it be better to wait when the applicant comes up for the CUP to make that a condition?

I think I'd have to defer to the city attorney on that.

Oh, it's an expert question, I believe. I would recommend at the CUP level at that point rather than putting it in the ordinance.

They really should be judged on a case-by-case basis, really, each one. Okay. Thank you very much.

Which I do believe that's why the ordinance was written to still require a conditional use permit to come before council and go through the public hearings and see what additional Conditions could be placed on a potential other cell cell tower, but looking at the map There's really nowhere else a cell tower can go You know, so I think that's really interesting member stoke.

Oh, yeah, that was kind of my question looking at the map Because community commercial I don't think cell tower when I think of community commercial and what I would hope would go there that being said I want our citizens to have good service and this is filling a gap so Again, I don't know, Eddie, if you can speak to that. If this were to get approved, I'm not sure where else one could go that would meet the conditions of a CUP. Probably not. It would be rare if any. Would that be accurate?

That's correct.

Yes, ma'am. Okay. And then this might be a silly question for you, but looking at this, there's still some gaps within our city. Does adding an additional tower help fill in those gaps if those other areas that aren't covered, or does it not really help that at all?

It wouldn't. I mean, they have a geographical limitation. Okay. It's probably not going to get much more than the ring that we've shown. Okay. The towers hand off to each other, so it will create better connection with the towers that are near around it.

That one's there. Do the other towers then, are they able to pull?

Yes, it will help with capacity issues as well.

Okay, that's what I was curious about. Okay. All right, thank you.

I mean, this is completely separate, but I can tell you on April 1st, we needed all the cell towers we could because Artemis was going up and we had about 100,000 people in one area and we didn't have any service. Right.

Sometimes the carriers will bring in a cow, a cellular on wheels for those types of events.

Yeah, we learned our lesson on April 1st. We'll be doing that next time for sure.

Okay.

City Clerk.

We have one card. It's Dan Johnston.

Stan Johnson, I've been through a number of presentations at cell towers here in Titusville. So I'm going to ask the question, did you say the tower is 150 feet high? I don't know. In other words, I thought she said it was 150 feet. Okay, 150 feet. Okay. So the question is, is it a guide tower or is it self-supported? I'm an engineer. I can ask that question, I believe. Okay, but you guys don't want to answer it. I don't think she wants to answer it either.

We're not to that point.

We're not to that point? I think we are because when we're talking about 400 feet, we're talking about sometimes tires are 400 feet high. This is a very low tire, 150 feet. That's low, very low. compared to what I'm thinking about towers or cell towers. So anyhow, as an engineer, my comments are that I don't have enough to make any kind of support or to oppose it. But I've been here for a number of cell towers that were disapproved. So I wish you luck. Thank you.

Thank you very much. City Clerk, anybody else? Yes, sir. All right. I'll close the first of two public hearings, and I'm sure we'll see you on the agenda in two weeks. City Manager?

Yes, sir. Moving on to Ordinance's first reading. 10A is Ordinance Number 16-2026, Urban Forestry Trust Fund. And again, this is just the first reading of the ordinance by Eddie Glendale. Thank you, City Manager.

This is page 82, item number 10A, ordinance number 16-2026, Urban Forestry Trust Fund. On June 9th, City Council adopted the Urban Forest Management Plan. The plan recommends the City amend the Landscape Trust Fund. Enclosed for review and approval is an ordinance to rename the Public Trust Fund to the Urban Forest Trust Fund. A separate resolution was considered by City Council amending the use of fund revenues obtained from tree mitigation efforts in to allow the planting, establishment, and maintenance of trees on public and eligible private property with priority given to canopy replacement, low canopy neighborhoods, and rights of way, and providing for an effective date. The resolution is consistent with the recommendations found in Appendix J of the Adopted Urban Forest Management Plan. It is recommended that City Council adopt the ordinance amending the land development regulations by renaming the Public Landscape Trust Fund in sections 30-32 and 30-34 to the urban forest trust fund consistent with the resolution. I'll read the ordinance title on page 84. An ordinance of the city of Titusville, Florida amending the code of ordinances to rename the landscape trust fund to the urban forest trust fund by amending sections 30-32 criteria for removal and 30-34 mitigation plan incentives providing for severability, repeal of conflicting ordinances, incorporation into the code and an effective date. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Eddy. City Clerk.

Tony Sheffalo.

Shiffalo, Tropic Street. This must be almost a done deal. I see neither Lilly, Sustainability, nor K. St. Onge in the room, even for the first reading. I want to say what a great idea this is, how much we of the tree team, the Titusville tree team, are behind this idea, how long we've worked for it, how great it was the other day when Ms. Moscoso brought children and a shovel and Ms. Nelson came and planted trees and the mayor showed up with a proclamation. We had a great time. There was a guy with a machine and a big auger digging the holes so that even the tree team Didn't have to do a lot of work. It was a great event. It's a great start for the urban forest. I hope I live long enough to see the trees. They were big. Maybe they'll get even bigger in my lifetime. It's a great movement. I just want to say thank you very much, and I hope that this is a possibility. And naming the fund, the Urban Forest Trust Fund, will then indeed perhaps, you know, it's the government. You have to.

It will be used to plant trees.

Wow, what a concept.

Thank you.

Thank you, City Clerk.

The last card is Dan Johnston.

Stan Johnson, I don't know what it has to say in the other parts of your agenda, but I see nowhere on the, I would suggest on the first page where they have, has your 10A, that also this is a TEC approval, approved project unanimously. So I would request that that go there because they worked very hard for it and they deserve it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Johnson. City Clerk, any other cards? Yes, sir. All right. Thank you very much. That concludes our first reading of Ordinance 16-2026. City Manager. Yes, sir.

Moving on to 10B, Small Scale Amendment Application Number 1-2026 for Canaveral Avenue. And this contains two... First readings, ordinance number 17-2026, amending the comprehensive plan, future land use map, and ordinance number 18-2026, rezoning the property for small scale comprehensive plan amendment 1-2026. And Mr. Glendale is on tap again to read the ordinances. Thank you, City Manager.

The summary begins on page 89. The applicant is requesting a small-scale comprehensive plan amendment SSA with rezoning on approximately 6,970 plus or minus square feet of land located on Canaveral Avenue north of Palmetto Street and south of Pine Street for the construction of a duplex building. The request intends to change the future land use designation from medium density residential to high density residential and rezone the property from single family high density R1C to multifamily high density residential R3 to support the intended multifamily use. The property is part of the Titusville plat book one page eight and is currently vacant property. Uh, Brevard County property appraiser tax account number two two zero zero five zero five and partial ID number two two three five zero three zero three 26 seven. I'll read the ordinances on page one 21 and one 22. the ordinance titles, um, an ordinance of the city of Titusville, Florida, amending the code of ordinances by amending ordinance number 61, uh, 1988, which adopted the comprehensive plan of the city of Titusville by amending the future land use designation on property located along Canaveral Avenue, located south of Pine Street and north of Palmetto Street from medium density residential to high density residential. on 0.16 acres of property, having parcel ID number 22350303267, providing for severability, repeal of conflicting ordinances, and providing for an effective date. And the second ordinance. On page 124, an ordinance amending ordinance number 5, 1993, of the city of Titusville, Florida, by amending the zoning map made a part of said ordinance by reference by changing the zoning classification on property located along Canaveral Avenue, located south of Pine Street and north of Palmetto Street, from the single-family high-density R1C to the multifamily high-density residential R3 zoning district, on 0.16 acres of property, having parcel ID number 22350303267, providing for severability, repeal of conflicting ordinances, and providing for an effective date. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Eddy. City Clerk?

No cards. All right.

That concludes our first reading. City Manager? Yes, sir, we have no items under 11 old business. Moving on to 12 new business, there's one item, 12A, and that is the proposed tentative operating millage rate for fiscal year 2027. And the city manager's proposed budget is balanced using an operating millage of 6.200 mills. This is the lowest millage in 18 years. And it is 1.95% above the rollback of 6.0185. And this agenda item requests that City Council establish a tentative millage rate for the FY27 budget at 6.3 mills. And also, we need to have set the first public hearing for the budget on September 9th, 2026 at 530 at City Hall, and the second final public hearing for the fiscal year budget on September 21st. also at 530 at City Hall. And our finance director is going to explain the setting of the tentative millage, its impact, and what additional flexibility it provides City Council at the upcoming August 4th budget workshop.

Good evening, Mayor, Council. So as the city manager said, tonight's purpose is to set the tentative millage rate for FY27 for the city's ad valorem tax rate. Put this in a little bit of context. The current rate is 6.3 mils. The rollback millage rate is 6.0812 mils. And the maximum millage rate you can adopt based on Chapter 74-430, which we call the 10% rule, is 6.4849. So putting that into a little bit of context for you, the city manager's budget is balanced at 6.2 mils. He also included an opportunity to increase that to 6.3 mils, which will give you about $389,202 should you decide to raise that millage to 6.3. I'm available for any questions that you have.

City Council. Member Nelson.

So I understand there are a number of items that potentially we could fund with the additional 400.

During the August 4th budget workshop, we'll be doing a presentation which includes an unfunded priorities list ranging from such items as, you know, sun shades at Splash Park to larger, you know, capital items. And if you have that flexibility, you can pick any of those items or should Council have any other items that you want to add? You can add that to the budget. This gives you flexibility if you decide to go to 6.3, where last year we set the tentative at what I proposed, and you had no flexibility. If you wanted to add something, I would have to ask you, what do you want to remove? So now you have some flexibility. And again, the tentative millage is not... binding, you can always go back lower than that, but you can't go higher.

So basically, we can look at the list and say, no, we want to go 6.2.

Right. Or you can say, hey, 6.2 is what I want.

Just as a reminder, this will have to be under the general fund. So the unfunded list includes all the funds in the city and all the unfunded initiatives. So this would only include items that fall under the general fund as far as the millage goes.

Member Stoeckle?

Yes. Do we have a list yet of anything from the Tiger team or where we have been able to cut to try to show trying to decrease?

I do believe there is. I believe that five positions were removed as part of the initiative of the Tiger team. I think that the city manager, Kevin, can give you some more details on that. There was also some efficiency items that came through there that I know that this is a pretty frugal budget, especially in the general fund. I feel like it's as scaled back as it could probably be. We are using a little bit of fund balance to balance the budget this year. That balance is available to use for one-time major projects, and so you'll see that in the proposed budget book.

Okay. Anything that we can have to share with the public, because I do feel that the public is feeling this as we send out tentative stormwater rates and now water rates, sewer rates. And then looking at this, I just feel like the more we can do to show where that money's going, where we're cutting, what we're looking at, the better that we can communicate with the public. Otherwise it makes it very difficult for me to make a decision to, even though we're lowering the millage, having a tax increase on our citizens. So, The more information that I can have, the better.

Okay. So in the budget workshop proposal that I put together, it does have a whole section on there by fund type of all the variances between last year and this year and what those changes represent. And you'll see there are some significant decreases. There are some increases in there, but you'll see there are some significant decreases, and I've laid them out for you with as much detail as I can. So if you look at the proposed budget and the line items in this yet, it's not in that yet. It's going to be in the workshop. This is just a very bare bones budget that is put together just so we can get all of the department requests put together and have them so that we can get it balanced. So at that point we're balanced and any changes that you make going forward, then we would rework that balancing to, to get what it is that you want to see in the budget. Now, I will tell you, too, the other thing we can share, and I have provided it to the city manager, is the budget. This book does not allow us to put in those line item details. We do have a line item detail budget that is providing footnotes, and those are put in by the departments. So I don't really have a lot of control over those footnotes other than the items that finance puts in. But that is available to you in a PDF. I think I've sent it out once already. But that would be your best bet to get any details on the budget. You would see those footnotes.

And then I would just say to Council, just going back to our retreat that we had, talking about our priorities with infrastructure, core essential services, what those look like, and then trying to not put too much of the tax burden on our citizens, looking at that and balancing it as we're going through the budget the best we can.

Member Nelson. And I would love to see something on our city website describing this is our budget. These are the areas we've been able to cut. These are the areas that need funding. Just so that people have an idea that it's not just us up here going, yeah, let's do ABC. We really have to think through it.

We have published the proposed budget on the website. We actually put it on the splash page so you don't have to search anywhere. It's right there as soon as you open up the city's website. And I would recommend that anyone who's interested in looking at the budget read through the city manager transmittal letter. It's about a nine page letter and it explains a lot about the budget and areas that we've been trying to emphasize and what services are covered and some of the rationale for developing this budget. So it's a good source of information.

I guess, Tom, I was looking for something where citizens could go to where it would be user-friendly. Because sometimes handing them a big budget

So one of the things I can tell you that we're hoping when we go to the cloud with BSNA is they will have kind of a front page where you can kind of look at what's going on in almost a real time. Yeah. Yeah. So the new software is going to have, I don't want to call it a portal, but it's somewhere where you can sign in and you can take a look at what's happening on the finance side. We're pretty limited with the software, what we can put out there. Everything's pretty manual. We do get everything out there that's required by law. All the budget amendments go out there. The budget goes out there. But I would hope that the new software will provide us with, like, a dashboard of things that would be more interactive. We've been told that will happen.

Do we have an idea when that might happen? A year, maybe. Maybe this time next year. Okay. Thank you.

Member Moscoso?

Thank you. Um, just to piggyback off of what member Nelson was saying, I get a lot of requests and I know I send them to the city manager for people wanting, um, different services like shade over, uh, the splash pad, um, lights at the Marina for the skate park. Um, what might be helpful is I'm looking at this and let's say we did have $400,000, um, possibly it's to let people know the exact cost. Like what would that cost? And then this is what we actually have that we could spend because people send things in that they want, which I appreciate. And I say, always send it in. I pass it on to the city manager, but the costs for some of those things, it's, it's a lot. And so just letting people know realistically, um, We've got 20 things on the list right now, and this isn't even including resurfacing roads and all of these other things. For me, that would be really helpful because I feel like I'm consistently sending this dream list in. And, of course, we want shade over the splash pad and all of those things. But just for myself to have a realistic idea of how much that would cost and if there would be any funds if we did get the $400,000. Okay.

So one of the things I would say just to remind you is once you set that tentative millage rate tonight, you cannot increase it at the public hearings. You can only decrease it. So if you're interested in doing that, you may want to consider setting a little bit higher millage rate so that you can work those extra things in. It's entirely up to you. The budget is balanced at 6.2, but there is room to make it be 6.3.

Did you have any follow-up?

Yeah, I would say, I mean, for like kind of what Member Stoeckle said, it would be really nice to know what that list is.

You'll see that at the workshop. Okay. There's several items on the workshop, and I think the splash pad shade was around $50,000. Okay. That one specifically, I remember.

All right. Thank you.

Member Stoeckle?

Yes, I think that's the thing. It's making it difficult to set our proposed without having some of this, so I'm still in favor of the 6.2 with it may be going down and then just to touch on some of the things that member Nelson was saying the more that we can and this is not just for you. This is for the city as a whole that we can showcase what we're doing. I had posted on my Facebook about the stormwater, and I had somebody comment, I'll come sweep the streets. And I don't think that the community necessarily knows what all goes into it, what it entails, liability, paying someone, all these factors. And so that's going to take somebody a little bit creative. But the more that we can do that and look at best practices, I think the better for our community, because I think that they really care about the community and they want quality services. It's just hard to reconcile, I'm paying X, and I'm maybe not seeing that benefit or we have millions of dollars, where's that going? I don't get to see it. How can we best showcase that?

And I think that's not all on you, Terry. No, no, it's okay. I do think that those are some good topics to bring up during the budget workshop. There is some flexibility and just because it's in the budget like this right now doesn't mean it necessarily has to stay that way. The departments put their requests in and they work through the city manager meetings and he determines what goes and stays in the budget and that's pretty much how it goes. But there are some unfunded initiatives I think are really important and those will be presented in a line item at the budget workshop with the cost.

All right. Thank you.

Vice Mayor. You know, I think I totally agree with everything that has been said. And if we could just paint a really good picture of what what we have and what we're looking for. And one thing that we need to keep in mind is that the election in November. property tax thing and that's going to be about a six million dollar hit to us. So we have to really look at this very closely and maybe this can become a framework for us to try to work from. So I think this budget is very, very important and the nine pages that Tom, that you put on, they were very helpful for me. So I just think we just need to paint a picture so our constituents can understand what we're trying to do and what limited resources we have to do it with.

So just to build on that, I do agree with you. I think that especially in the general fund this year, this budget is frugal, and it is the first step, I believe, towards anticipating what might happen in November. As you can imagine, at the last conference I was at, this was the topic. Everybody's talking about what could happen in November, and the impacts could be pretty detrimental, and you don't think that that's a lot of money, but you have to remember that it's over time, and it's going to stay that way. It's not going to It's not going to come back anytime soon. So I do think it's a very frugal budget. If you go through it and you look at it, you'll see that there are a lot of things in there. It's a must-have, necessary needs budget. There's not a lot of want-to-haves in there.

Thank you.

Thank you, Vice Mayor. Thank you, Council. Thank you, Ms. Terry. As we kind of go through this process, I really wish we'd have a presentation from the TIGER team because I feel like we're not operating with all the information. We're being told that they identified XYZ positions and now those are no longer there, but we really don't know what those conversations were or what operationally they felt needed to To be adjusted and I think all of us on council, while we just set policy and have no operational control, we do definitely have control of the budget. And I think that's where we got to exercise our checks and balances to figure out how to. Maybe direct operations with a budget and talk about what that looks like. So when I said be prepared for long budget meetings, I'm. Being dead serious, we're going to go through the funds one by one, and we're going to take them individually, and we're going to have a very, very frank conversation. Because if you did not catch what Ms. Dana was throwing down, if you didn't catch it, if local governments do not stop increasing taxes on their people, it's going to push the polling numbers from 50-50 right now over 60%. It just is. So we got to take a hard look at what we can do to streamline and be more efficient. So again, I really hope between now and the first budget hearing, we have a presentation from the Tiger team and what they identified. I also really, really want to stress that we need that public-private partnership presentation. because at the end of the day, that's what it's going to take is getting creative, figuring out strategic outsourcing, figuring out the ways to leverage the free market and private business to make some of these things work. I mean, we just heard somebody up today say we need to get SpaceX to pay for our infrastructure. I mean, I don't disagree that we need to leverage the commercial space market, but we've got to be very, very creative as we go forward because what we don't want to have happen is alienator citizenry them just say we're done and as a taxpayer myself I feel it too you know so as everything continues to go up we got to be very mindful and I think there's definitely some things that we can do so that is my two cents city clerk are there any cards one card at Stan Johnston

Stan Johnson, I've been around here for about 51 years. No, 55 years. And I've seen some dishonesty and dishonesty in your in. that came out special, and that is the sustainability report. So what happened is that there was a false sustainability report, and I complained to Joe DeNiro about it, and Brad Parrish and participation by Brad and Edie.

Your caution for being off topic, Mr. Johnson.

Oh, this sustainability has got to do with millions of dollars. It's right on, Martin. Now, what are you talking about? And what I'm talking about is that this is dishonesty in government and has to do with money, lots of money. When I talk about sustainability report, that has to do with stormwater and other things. And we've got illegal dams. We've got illegal dams that cost over a million dollars in 2010 money. It's illegal. So and also we had what it was $600,000 for this kind of gateway entrance or something and $600,000 looked like nonsense. So you guys can improve. You guys can improve and you should listen to it but you don't want to listen. You don't listen. In other words, what I want to say is that the sustainability report was false and they admitted it was false. They admitted it was false, and they went ahead and, first of all, they added an affidavit I put out, and then they took the affidavit out. So now, I don't know, I think it was done probably by Mr. Lurie.

All right, Mr. Johnson, you're out of order. Please have a seat.

That's out of order?

I'm talking about this. I already cautioned you once about being on topic. Okay, I think it's on topic, though.

Thank you.

Any other cards, City Clerk? All right. Member Nelson.

So my motion would be to set the tentative operating millage rate at 6.3 with the idea that we'll look at the list with the goal of getting it back to 6.2.

Second.

Motion by Member Nelson, second by Vice Mayor Cole. Any further discussion?

I'm just going to say I'd prefer it to be at 6.2, so if you hear me say a nay, that's why.

Can you survive?

Hey, hey. All right. Thank you for the discussion, Member Stoeckel. Any other discussion? Seeing none, City Clerk, call the roll.

Yes, sir. Member Moscoso? No. Member Nelson? Yes. Mayor Connors? No. Vice Mayor Cole?

Yes.

And Member Sokol?

No. Motion fails. Can I have another motion, please?

Okay. Do you want me to do it? Move to set the tentative operating millage rate at 6.2.

Okay. Second.

I have a motion by Member Nelson, second by Vice Mayor Cole. Any further discussion? Seeing none, City Clerk.

Member Nelson? Yes. Mayor Connors?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Cole?

Yes.

Member Stoeckel? Yes. Member Moscoso? Yes.

Motion passes. Thank you very much. City Manager, I believe we're on to petitions and requests. I'm sorry.

I also need a motion, please, to set the public hearings in September. Thank you very much.

Move to set the first public hearing for September 9th at 530 and a second public hearing for September 21st at 530.

Second.

Motion by Member Nelson, second by Vice Mayor Cole. Any further discussion? City Clerk.

Mayor Connors.

Yes.

Vice Mayor Cole.

Yes.

Member Stoeckel. Yes. Member Moscoso. Yes. Member Nelson. Yes.

Motion carries. Thank you very much. Now we're on to petitions and requests from the public, not agenda items. And remember, if you spoke at the first one, can't speak this one. Anybody want to come up? Excuse me, sir. Did you already speak at the first petitions and requests? Petitions and requests? Did you already speak at the first one? Yes, I did. The rules state you can only speak at one of them either or. I want to break the rules. I'm sorry. My job is to enforce the rules, good, bad, or otherwise.

No, he spoke at the 630 meeting. All right.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's very confusing. All right. I apologize. Next time we'll hear. All right. Anybody else? Seeing none. All right. Moving on to council reports. Member Moscoso.

None.

Member Nelson.

Yeah. You know, I'm no prosecutor. And so I take. criminal acts very seriously. And we heard last meeting that Hope of North Brevard had provided meals for the kids with Stacy Lincoln delivering those meals. So I have a lot of public records and I thought, you know, the parents need to decide whether they want this individual delivering meals to their kids. Um, that's what I heard. So either way, um, I do have the case numbers. So in 2002 in Port St. Lucy, a point of order. What is the point of order?

Is this the place that we should be doing this?

I mean, she has the right to give a report.

A criminal report?

I mean, she's talking about public records. I don't know what you want me to do about it. I don't see anything in the rules that prevents her from doing that. Member Nelson?

So he was stopped in Port St. John with another individual. was $76,000 in cash in his vehicle. Drug Dog alerted to the vehicle. They searched it. No explanation for why this cash was there. Port St. Lucie is now $76,000 richer. 2006, he was charged with sexual battery. He was 34, 35 years old. The victim was a volunteer. You may think it's funny. If I was his child's parent, I would not think it was funny. She was a volunteer at the Gibson Center. He was a coach. She was 17. Like I said, he's 34, 35. She describes a sexual assault. She tells her best friend, doesn't want it to be known. Best friend tells her mother, who tells the police. He admitted to some sexual activity.

Indicated member Nelson keep us city attorney.

Yes member Nelson and and you know I respect you being an attorney as I as am I I just wanted to make sure that you read on the record that those were Allegations those were allegations.

Thank you.

This is why we have to make them say this is what the report is saying But as you and I know we have to clarify to make sure that's allegation again I you know my job is to protect the city from any liability right and

Please don't interrupt. Member Nelson has the floor.

He did plead to elects or offense. 2010, the allegations are that he met with an agent to discuss a cocaine deal, two kilograms. They went to make the deal. He was not, they changed location, deal did not go through. Two, three months later, his brother actually made the deal and was arrested and did three years for it. 2014, there was an allegation of inappropriate behavior, again at the Gibson Center. of this man asking a 16-year-old, so it would be 40-something, are you hunching? Are you having sex? I've got to say that I have two daughters. I've never asked my daughters or any of their friends, are you having sex? I just don't think it's appropriate. So these are the allegations that are in these cases, and they are public records, and they do concern me. So when I hear or when I believe I hear that he's around children, as a parent, I will want to know. Now, if the parent knows and says, OK, I don't care, that's fine. But I think they should know. So thank you for indulging me. I spent 14 years in the Sex Crimes Division at the State Attorney's Office. I know the impact of these kinds of incidents on kids, and so it does concern me.

You're out of order, ma'am. Member Nelson, does that conclude your report? Yes. All right. Thank you. Member Stoeckel?

The only thing I was going to say is in reference to a comment that was made earlier regarding us potentially noticing the non-ad valorem fees on the trim notice that the property appraiser brought up. And apparently that we have to direct, I think, the city manager if those can be on there. And I would be in favor of that. I think that is the more transparency that we can provide, the better. So that would be mine.

We're in complete concurrence with that. Okay. Yeah.

Council, do you guys feel? Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Do you guys feel more comfortable for a motion to be made and clear direction to be given?

Yes.

Yeah. So I would make that motion that we do notice and have that go to the property appraiser for her to properly notice.

Second. I have a motion by Member Stoeckel. I have a second by Member Nelson. This is obviously not on the agenda. If anybody would like to come up and talk about the motion being discussed. and that is the only topic, about us properly noticing the non-advalorant assessment on the trim. You can come up now, but it has to be about the trim notice.

Okay. 30 years ago, I ran for city council, and so I got known. But two years later, we still had some of the problems with finances. And so we... present council, I lost, the present council at that time wanted to look at new ways of cutting the budget. I am on topic, right? Okay. And so they each appointed somebody to a board or whatever it was called to look at ways that we could cut the budget. And one of the, I mean, when it was time to things like, you know, cutting every other light, uh, having, and one thing that did get passed was having people that wanted their roads fixed. they could pay for it themselves. Um, I mean, it was crazy stuff like that. So, uh, there's ways of looking at the budget and, you know, You all are busy reading all these things. I mean, my goodness, what you guys have to read. But pointing somebody to do that that you trust, that was something that we did 30 years ago. And people felt better about it because there was regular people cutting, looking at the budget. And so I just wanted to throw that out. Thank you very much, sir.

Yeah, I do remember, you know, hearing the history of, you know, the budget committee and definitely something I'd be in favor of a way we can get the average everyday person involved. Any other comments specifically on sending out the notice of non-advalorum assessments on the trim? Mr. Johnson?

I was so confused that I couldn't understand what happened with the sexual things and other things that seemed like it didn't have anything to do with what Hal was talking about.

All right. Well, thank you, Mr. Johnson.

City Manager? Mayor, can I get a clarification? So you would like us to have a letter prepared for your signature to send to the property appraisers expressing support for adding those items to the below-the-line nine ad valorem assessment. Is that correct?

The letter would specifically detail our request of her to add them to the trim. Got it. Amended motion. Amended second. All right. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much. Member Stoeckel, do you have anything else? Vice Mayor Cole? I JUST WANTED TO BRING UP A FEW THINGS THAT WERE ON OUR PRESENTATIONS MEETING BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY ACTION FOR THEM AND THEN WE ALSO DIDN'T HAVE A TO-DO LIST. LIKE WE NORMALLY DO, THINGS ARE ON THE SPECIAL PRESENTATIONS ARE USUALLY ON CONSENT THAT SAME EVENING. SO I DIDN'T WANT ANYTHING TO KIND OF LOSE TRACK. SO I WANT TO BRING UP THE FIRST THING. Pace did anybody want to have a discussion about that or maybe ask the city manager put on a future agenda for us to have more discussion Maybe after the budget session most likely I would assume Is that fair to have more conversation more more diving because there could be pros and cons but you know I think just looking into it and having the conversation is fair whether we decide to move forward or not and then the other thing is the lobbyists for 2027 for the legislative session and You know, we didn't have that on the agenda, so I just want to gauge how everybody was feeling regarding moving forward with appropriations. Now, I will say the issue we have with appropriations is the legwork has never kind of been done ahead of time in terms of having quality projects, plans, designs, engineering for shovel ready projects. The state does not want to give. appropriations for planned design engineering that commits them to more money down the road. So it's very important that we be smart about any impact fees that we get, mobility fees, whatever kind of assessments we're charging to developers to use those monies to put towards planned design engineering for increased capacity or stormwater or whatever it is so that Once we go shovel-ready, now we can actually get some good money. And that's really what it's about. It's about making sure we have projects on the shelf to go after. And so I think the first year, while we did have some good quality projects, there weren't much in terms of ask, you know, $170,000 here, $150,000 there. But I think this next legislative session is where we're going to have to go after the bigger things. the stormwater projects and stuff like that. So I think we're going to need all the help we can get. While Mr. Steele is very complimentary of Council Member Moscoso, Member Stoeckel, and myself, we're not enough. So I just wanted to kind of gauge everybody's feedback. Member Nelson?

I think if we have projects there ready, that it would be worth it. So I guess the question is, do we have projects that we can present?

I don't think Ms. Sandy's here. Mr. Kevin, can you answer if we have some projects in the pipeline?

We do within the water sewer utility, yes. We do not within the stormwater and oil work general fund because the designs have not been funded to date. So water sewer had shovel ready last year, didn't make it through the cuts, but the utility does have shovel ready projects.

And I think that's the important thing is, you know, maybe this year targeting water utility that has, you know, shovel-ready projects while we work on with our stormwater and stormwater master plan, getting the PD&Es around for the following year and just kind of mapping out that roadmap for how we get additional funds into our city. Member Stoeckle.

Yeah, no, I was going to agree. I think that there's multiple pieces to the puzzle that make it successful. And a lobbyist plays an important piece and not only helping to work with staff on how to draft that appropriation, who sponsors it, what the political climate is at the time, what projects is it? Is it this septic to sewer right now? Is it more infrastructure related to baffle box, whatever that looks like? That's kind of the key component that the lobbyist plays. As he mentioned, I think those of us that do go to Tallahassee, there's a role there with people that we know. And so I think it's an important piece of the puzzle. And I do believe that it will pay off even more so as we go through it. As was mentioned, this was our first time to do it. And I think I would say it was, even though we didn't win a project, it was a success in terms of working with the staff. And what does that process look like and how can we improve?

Member Muscoso.

Yeah, I mean, I think the issue was political. And so I think it's going to, I mean, whoever our next governor, that's going to decide a lot. So also, if we go with Mr. Steele, knowing exactly what connections he has is going to be extremely important because I think we can put together the best plan. But as I think almost all of the cities that he represented, I mean, nobody got money. I think it was only the Brevard Zoo. No, did the Brevard Zoo get money? It was the Sheriff's Department. And so I think just evaluating that and possibly like renegotiating for the first year to see how those relationships are in Tallahassee.

Vice Mayor Cole. I think it appears that we all agree. And, you know, like I said, like Member Stokoe said, you know, first time out of the chute and he took the projects and the projects got through the House and the Which was very impressive, and the only reason they didn't make it was because the governor vetoed them. So I think we really need a voice up there, and I think Jason has the connections to make it happen.

Well, it seems like you have your consensus, Mr. Abate. So, you know, at some point, you know, bring a contract back before us on an agenda. All right. And I think that was the only two items minus the strategic planning. I just want to bring that up. I think that's where, you know, if we give some staff direction about what we want that to be. The citizen convention thing that we were doing and and really kind of start the strategic planning process there. I think that was a great idea. Um, you know, if we can support in any way, Lily's efforts to make that bigger so that we can include elements of strategic planning, I think is a great idea. Um, so just. I don't know. Let me know what I can do to help if council agrees that that's the way we should do it. I think we need to a bigger venue. Uh, and and be some, some additional resources provided to it to kind of kick off our strategic planning in a big way. So that's kind of how I feel members local.

No, I would agree. And I feel like this has the potential for us to be a best practice for other cities to follow suit rather than us saying, oh, this city did this, this city did this. I think we're in a good position for us to kind of lead the way, especially when it comes to citizen engagement, because I feel like that's not just unique to our city. A lot of communities are needing to improve, I would say, in citizen engagement. So I'm all for how we can kind of improve that process. And I think we are on the right track with some of the things we've already done.

Any other comments? All right, seeing none. Not real action items, just wanted to have a discussion.

City Manager, your report. Yes, sir. There's two items. The first is to inform you that we've revised our return check policy for utility billing. You recall we had a resident over the last two meetings remind us that our policy was very restrictive regarding having to pay in person with cash for if a check was returned for insufficient funds. We did benchmark against 10 other peer cities and there is some flexibility there. So we have revised our policy to allow for including cash cashier's check and money order and debit credit cards where we don't charge a convenience fee. And also we're looking at the potential for a third party to collect utility bills. So we have made changes in response to that. gentleman's request. The second item is...

Wait, can I ask a question?

City Manager, one second. Member Stockel.

Yeah, my question just with that. Thank you. Do they still have to come in person or can they do that? Can they mail in a money order? Can they pay online with that debit card? That's my question because I think that was the hardship was having to come in person.

Yeah, we are allowing them to online with a debit card.

They can do. Okay, perfect. Thank you.

Or they can certainly mail in.

Or they can mail a money order.

Cashier's check.

Okay, thank you.

And then we're looking at third-party potential.

Do we have the ability to take the payment information over the phone with, like, a debit card?

I believe so, yeah.

Okay, so if you can't get here, they can call in, here's my card number, here's my expiration date, and they're good to go, right? Yes. Okay, I was just making sure because, yeah. Nobody said debit card.

Okay.

All right, City Manager, continue, please.

The last item is a proposed agenda review format change. Right now we do one-on-one. each council meeting. Proposal we did take a look at, our assistant city manager looked at various other cities and prepared a memo for your review of how other cities do it in order to make the meetings and the review process more efficient. So we're proposing a six month trial commencing in August that will allow us to do a online webinar going through the entire agenda with all council members present online or if they want to attend, you know, live because it will be emanating from the round room. And then also allowing the public to view but not participate in the review process. So we're suggesting that or proposing that we can do a pilot project, see if it works, see if it's effective in getting the information out clearly to all five council members and maybe even reducing the time that we spend going over these issues in a council meeting. And if it works, we can make it a permanent change. If not, we can go back to one-on-one meetings.

The only thing, I'm not in favor of this, but in November, we could possibly have three new council members. And so as a new council member, it's a really good time to sit down with staff and ask all of those questions you might not be comfortable asking in a setting, like a group setting in front of everyone. So for me, I personally like the one-on-ones because also that's the time I build a relationship with the staff, and I know that's the time I have. If we do it this way, is there an option to opt out and still have one-on-one?

Certainly council's discretion whether or not to allow that. I would have no feelings either way. It would be fine.

Member Moscoso, if I may. I don't think by us moving to this more transparent way of doing things prevents a council member from sitting down one-on-one and asking questions outside of the group. But a lot of times people sit in the audience or watch us on TV and go, why aren't they asking questions? Well, a lot of us have already asked some of these tough questions one-on-one, so by us putting it out to the public of what questions we're asking behind closed doors and just opening up the sunshine on that, I think is a very important move for the public. So again, nothing's stopping you from still talking with the staff. All right, any other discussion on the matter? Member Stocco?

Um, yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure just yet. Um, cause I did see this on here and I do know that there are some other cities municipalities that do it. Um, as you know, I, I feel like I'm always the outlier because my schedule is pretty strict, um, just with my job. And so, um, my only concern would be if it's at a time that I consistently, um, can make. And then if I can't make it, um, obviously I would want to probably be able to call in or make it up, um, depending on what's on the agenda. So, um, I do like some components of it because I do There's a couple things one. I do think it's more transparent I feel like it's good for the public should they want to see or just know a little bit more about the process I remember before I was on council I was I was like, what do they have up there with their laptops or iPads? What are they looking at? Just have seen like the difference now I also feel like it's helpful to to hear some of your guys's questions because I know that it gets brought up during our meetings like oh in my one-on-one I did this and so I Having that prior to the meeting, I could see would be beneficial for me if there's something I need to do a little bit more research on or ask. So I definitely see the transparency and more research component. But then I also see the other side of it could be more efficient, but I wonder, too, I might still pop in for a little one on one. So I don't know. I might need a little bit more time to think about it, but I definitely see the pros and cons, I think, for me at least.

So the attorney.

If I may, from a city attorney's perspective and just efficiency, I will say it's very time consuming having one on ones for an hour and a half to two hours per council member. And maybe because I'm not used to that, I think it is more efficient to have it virtually and have all council members be there. However, at council's pleasure, from our perspective, from the city attorney's office, if you decide to continue with the one-on-ones, I would ask for discretion for myself and for David, because we're so inundated with, we're taking on new litigation, which we're happy to do and we're loving it, to have the discretion that, because most of the agenda items are operational in nature and not legal, to have the discretion for me to be able to decide which one to attend, and if you legal questions by all means to contact her office. So I would like for that discretion if I may.

Vice Mayor Cole. I agree with Member Moscoso. I actually enjoy my one on ones. I agree with you, City Attorney, that there are oftentimes things that we discuss that are not In your purview, and I would think that if we had our one on ones and something came up of a legal nature, if someone was available to answer it. That you didn't have to sit through all my jokes and things that I do when I'm in the one on ones. But I really feel more comfortable with my personal one on one and that's my personal opinion.

Member Stockel.

I'M WONDERING IF THERE COULD BE LIKE A HYBRID OPTION OF A PILOT PROGRAM WHERE WE DO HAVE LIKE THE SET GROUP TIME WHERE WE DO KNOW THAT CITY ATTORNEY COULD BE THERE FOR ONE HOUR. BECAUSE I DO AGREE WITH YOU. your time is valuable and there's limited. Um, and so, and let's see who makes it. If, you know, if all five of us show up for that, or if only one person shows up for that, like if, is, if, how does that work? Um, I'd be in favor of trying it for a month or two just to see if how comfortable we feel. And the good thing about it is we could always just not do it or go back or something. But, um, I think you said that you have experienced doing that prior, um, Is that correct? That is correct.

And did it seem to work well? Yes, most cities do it this way. So doing it the way we do it is the odd way to do it.

And I would say, too, from a budget financial standpoint, I always think about that. Anytime you have somebody doing something, put a dollar value on that, and you get to see very quickly how much.

Yes, it's definitely, again, while I love everyone up there, as you know, it's just taxing on the resources with two attorneys in the city attorney's office. Again, I'm happy to field any questions one-on-one via phone, email, if there are any legal questions that come up from the agenda, for sure. Okay. Thank you. Thanks.

Member Nelson.

Well, I'm with Herman. I will miss the meetings. I enjoy the meetings. I learn a lot from the meetings. But as long as I know how to find you guys, let's try the video conferencing.

Yeah, I don't think there's nothing to be lost with putting more information out to the public with the questions we ask and the information presented by staff to us in our one-on-one meetings. I think we'll also help inform the public. I'm sure Ms. Schiffalo will be paying attention intently, and maybe some of her questions will be answered before she comes here and be like, hey, now I know this, right? And that's what it's all about, as well at the same time making sure that we're efficient and effective with our resources. And like I said, nothing prohibits anybody for asking another question. I'm sure we all ask Tom a bunch of questions all day every day about a lot of different things. Tom, am I correct? Yeah. Now I come up with ideas, I don't ask questions. All right, so are we good to give this a try? All right. I think you got your marching orders. We're good to give it a try. Yes, sir.

Also, one other thing that we are offering one-on-ones for the budget before the workshop on August 4th. I think I have two or three council members have already responded, but I'd be more than happy to have myself, Kevin, and our finance director go through the budget book so that you're in a position to ask questions that you want to on August 4th.

Yeah, that came from you guys. I was like, I need to sit down, go through this one-on-one, ask a bunch of questions, and kind of justify to me why you need X, Y, Z, right? So we're going to go through it with a fine-tooth comb, and like you said, we're going to put a lot of effort into making sure that we're doing the best for the people we represent. With that being said, City Attorney, I don't think there's a report for you.

No, thank you.

All righty. Anything else for the order, Member Nelson?

Motion to adjourn.

We're adjourned. See you next time.