P&j Meeting - Regular Meeting

has joined us and you can you can start at any time. Well, can you hear us?

That's what I was Can you hear my name? Yep. Do you like this? I'll turn it up a little bit more. But yeah, the work session. Do we usually put work sessions on? Um, we we're we're on the YouTube, so for Jane, whatever you want to do. Yeah, it's up to you. Might as well. Might as well. Can you hear? Can you hear us yet, Dean? Yeah. Yes. Thumbs up. Can you hear me? We cannot we cannot hear him. Okay. One sec. If it's it's probably because of my thing.

Check one two.

My audio all looks good. Dean, can you share more time? I can hear you a little bit. Here we go. There you got it. All right. With that, we will open the work session on May 18th and go into discussion for a camping ordinance. Okay.

Um staff was asked to bring this back to you. Um, we've had some opportunities to uh look at a number of the things that uh we talk about the uh in your packet was the obstacles memo. um we gave you that just so there would be something in the packet and and and there um since that following the release of the packet on Thursday we've actually finalized a couple of things that we'd like to do as solutions and in looking at this what we've found is there were a couple of different major issues that the council had encouraged us to look at one was the Arby's right and and getting rid of the arbies in town. Two is is helping clean up homeless and and people sleeping where we don't want people to be sleeping. Um and uh three, making sure we're driving all this with state law. Um the court cases that have been handed down and everything there. And then there was the big enforcement piece. As we continue to look at this, I think the solution lies not in a specific damping ordinance as we have drafted before, but in modifying a couple of three different things. So, what I want to do is I'm going to pull up for you um chapter 71 of our code and Dean and I will share this screen for you. Give me just a second. try to do four things at once. And Dean, can you give me a thumbs up if once you can see that? Awesome. So, this

is chapter 71 of our of our code. And so, some of the things that we wanted to do was make a couple of amendments here. Um, and we're going to go through a lot of the code here, but I think some of this will solve um some of the enforcement issues and some of the uh issues that we that we've had. And we'll talk about every piece that that goes into this. So, the first thing we want to talk about is I know this is scrolling a little fast. Um, storage of motor vehicles, right? So, our current code says um a vehicle or trailer approved um this is our 24-hour rule that it has to move 250 ft. One of the proposals is we just take that out and we say you cannot store a vehicle or trailer, personal property, trash containers, construction equipment or construction supplies at all. Okay. What this would do is um take it from a we're not going to enforce on somebody's house that's there, but enforcing anything on the street other than a automobile as opposed to a recreational vehicle. Okay. So, what this what this would do is would make it so that if somebody wants to park a boat or a trailer, that would need to be in the driveway. And if it's in the driveway, it can be there all you want. If you need to move cars out of the driveway to park those on the street, that is fine because we allow automobiles to park for up to 72 hours. Go ahead. Right, Penny?

Uh, right now it's 24 hours, which your vehicles are going to move and cycle through. you're not going to have a long-term storage of of the vehicle. So, by switching this from a a somebody camping and we're not going to digest whether somebody's camping or not, we can we can make it more of a car enforcement thing and a vehicle enforcement thing. We'll be subject to the traffic code as opposed to a camping code that would get us in trouble with some of the court cases and state laws that have been passed. Does that make sense? along with this um in chapter 71 and just let me get through the changes here council member and then I'll answer your questions or let you ask your questions. Um 71.052 is bicycle licensing. We haven't done this in years and so is we're amending the code just take that out because it's not something the city's been doing forever. Um same thing with renting of bicycles. Um we haven't the city doesn't rent bicycles. We don't have I mean if we were ever to do like a green bike or something like that maybe we bring that back but for chapter 71 those are the changes that are intended and we think that that would help us on the enforcement council did you have a question? Yeah, chapter 7 A1. Um, you go back up. I see a couple issues with the amendment. Um, it almost have to be I think two parts. I had experience with this specific code uh in my neighborhood. Um, and so like the top says shall store a vehicle or trailer personal property. So, one of the issues is I would be curious on enforcement where it says a vehicle um instead of a recreational vehicle. Um because what is the definition of storing a vehicle? Like how would you determine that from an enforcement standpoint? Like now in

my experience probably cross streets and lean um we had an issue of multiple vehicles had not moved for months short. Um, and they were not recreational vehicles, trailers, they were they were bear. Um, and then I believe in here it talks about if they registered um, and not moving, they can't be there. Um, there's consecutive days. And so if we left, if the first part was changed to recreational vehicle, there would still have to be a second part for vehicle. and how you've addressed that in the sense of an enforcement perspective um for regular vehicles. You know, we we struck out paragraph two here. Um and I think as we could word smith right here, I mean these are just ideas. We could make it so that uh we could no person shall store a recreational vehicle and then nonrecreational vehicles

or or other in there for a period of 30 days or more in six months. We could just reinstitute um paragraph 2. Megan, did you have thoughts on that? Um because we just wanted to deal with the storage and personal property and RVs and then when we go to chapter 72, it covers what vehicles can drive. Okay. So, let's get chapter 72. Yeah. Looking at that, I was like, wait, hold on. So, 72. That's great. This is why we have negative here to make sure that I don't screw it up. Okay.

So, I'm going to stop sharing this for council member Chris and then I'm going to reshare chapter 72. Can I get a thumbs up from you? Sure. Okay. So, here we have um the parking meters. Um and is that it? I thought we had something else in there. No, we've got O23.

Yeah. Um so, in 72.02, O2 we edit that nobody shall we take out where parking spaces are designated. So it makes it so we don't have to have lines on the street or anything like that. Just no parking um and that you have to park in the direction of traffic flow and and everything there. So we're just taking out what we need to mark the spaces for this paragraph to be enforced. Prohibited parking. We allow uh no person shall park, store allow a vehicle to remain in violation state code or city ordinance um in an alley or loading zone for 30 consecutive minutes. No operator shall park, store, or allow a vehicle vehicle to be parked or stored across any street, parking lot or city property for displaying of sale, um repairing or servicing, selling or merchandising, displaying advertising, parking or storing a recreational vehicle, boat, motorcycle, trailer, um anything like that, or parking or storing a motor vehicle for more than 72 consecutive hours. Parking restrictions pursuing the state vehicle code. Um, this takes care of the sidewalks, fire hydrants, all those kind of things. And for the police department, parking in a manner, which causes traffic hazard, you know, so if somebody parks angled on a street that doesn't really have angled parking and causes a backup, we can enforce on that. And then no overnight sleeping. So, this is the the we don't want people sleeping in their cars from 9:00 a.m. 9:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. only on the uh public property that this enforces on street, highway, city parking lot, loading zone for those. So, you can be in the Herald Center where they have a parking lot. You can go in and sleep in

your car there. We just don't allow sleeping in cars on city streets. Well, that be a trespass issue. Yeah. Yep. Can you sort so that those ones add a display of advertising from a vehicle? Correct. That's what I was thinking. What's that? Oh, this public. Okay. Yeah. This is not I What you're probably thinking is say that maybe a member of our city council owns an appliance repair store and has vehicles with logos on the side. You can still park those because that's not displaying ad. This is something that's not for sale. Your vehicle is for sale. Yeah.

Yeah. And I said for sale there's Yeah. Everything's digital nowadays. The marketplace stuff like that. The um that is very common for a person to park a car. We're getting rid of that completely or there's a time limit. No, that's completely This is would be completely and ask people. So you could display it from your vehicle in your driveway. I think that's all the conversation but

and and that could get into a a free speech issue trying to place a man or signs that that we I always have complaints or problems. Every time I host a garage sale for I will go down a street where it is and they always have a vehicle put it put it on our telephone poles which they're not supposed to do. Has to be fun. So I'm seeing this with almost every garage sale. A while back we had a red wagon say turn the corner and almost hit the wagon.

Yeah. I mean I think I I mean just on that note I I do think that there's probably reasonable room within the garage ordinance alone to ease up so you don't have people doing that. I would see I rather I rather have a lot of people sign to be off premise rather than a vehicle parked in on the side of the road especially on Evergreen

cuz that inter when they park there that intersection that's for or even off of across Ry Meadow they always park their car on third street they want to get people off third I mean most time in a garage they want to get people off of the thorough affairs and I mean I'd rather have a they the sign staked, you know, ask permission from somebody's yard that I would have a vehicle parked there. So, I'm fine with this. I just think that there's probably room to help people. Yeah. Because it's not going to get followed. I mean, that's like

So, one one caveat to all this. These are ideas that we put together in the language of the graph. This has not been vetted by the attorneys or anything, which is why we're not bringing it verbal yet. We just wanted to have some solutions for you as part of the work session.

So, any other comments on the changes to 72 and then with parking meters and we'll talk about this a little bit later. We don't have parking meters in town anymore. So, again, uh del or deleting this code, legal time limits. Um this talks about parking in a metered space. um meter fees, a mechanical defect of the meter, uh the collection of coins. Nobody's putting coins in parking meters anymore. Um so just deleting that. Um parking permits. Um just making a technical change for how we actually do uh parking permits for construction purposes. Um and then um again, where we don't have parking meters, we don't have parking meter receipts. So just taking that out of usage of revenues uh from there and um we will get into more of the enforcement on parking as we talk about the downtown parking summit that we held and that's on the agenda for the regular meeting. So I don't want to get too far down that road. Um but this is I think that was all. See here unauthorized parking control devices. Um, we're just changing to the recognized court because we don't have a municipal court. So, making sure that whether that goes to justice court or to the county municipal court, we're just recognizing that it could go to any of those, right? Um, whichever's the the one for

back up there, we have the court that says, uh, recognize court law for this district or another court venue. Isn't that redundant? Possibly. Um, again, you would play it up with Mustang. Would you be able to go back up where it um refers to their construction permits? And then also question back to 71 on the section where it referenced, you know, if you're parking a vehicle or have um a trash bin, a perimeter, a trash bin, construction material in the parking area and you have to get permission from the city manager. What's that process look like? So, that's just our normal permitting Yeah.

stuff that we do. So as you're doing construction, I designate Mayan to issue those permits for for for building permits or whatever that it would be on that. So that's the permit that we would have grant is part of your site plan for construction projects where your staging, right? And where where your staging would be. Um the old code or one of the things we took out is there's this whole section on reflectors and that anything put in the rightway had to have reflectors on all four sides and such like that. And it's like you're saying that if somebody's putting their their junk in the rideway, they need to have reflectors around it so nobody hits it. That's not really feasible um in a lot of ways. So just just cleaning up the the technical stuff on that. But in this one, um again, permit should be issued only in non-metered areas. We really don't have metered areas. um with a part a person with properly issued permit um you just saying you need to park directly from construction site or in an approved area without interference that's part of your site plan your stage plan that you would do if you're part of construction. So on that it says without interference with commerce. Um what about other residences

we could add? Yeah about residences. It was taken out because we have directly in front of the construction site but that's without interference with permanent homes. Oh sorry area without interference like your neighbor which would be my studio. So are you saying they can only something like that? They shouldn't have interference with commerce for Netflix. Well, you'd be interference with neighbor, right? Interfer with their driveway. Yeah, we just don't want you to block their driveway or make it so they can't get in and out of their property.

So let's go back to questions of just to review the driveway. You have a house with a small driveway, one car with small house. How long can you have a car s car parked outside without a problem on the road? 725 without moving. Without moving for 72 hours and then a movement is movement still a distance and still distance. We're not putting a distance in there. Now, if you want to have on the boat and you don't have a driveway, I don't. Do we need to get a special permit to pull the boat down? What's the story?

Or so you couldn't park a boat. You can't now. You can't now. You can't now. Okay. I'm just Good. Okay. That's not a Chinese. So, the idea is trying to um these are pictures that code enforcement took today. Um I've got several of them here and I sorry I can't do two things at once. Um

let me see if I can share some of these or just share my screen. So, you know, this vote would then be that in violation of code. Yeah. Right. Um, so what do we do now? We stop by tell what do we do now? Anything for it? We didn't come forth.

We really don't do anything because it's there's no measurable. So how quote how the code sits right now is is that somebody can park stuff in front of their home in a cumulative of 30 days in a six-month period. I have no way to designate if that belongs to that house right there legally. Um, so and I can't sit on something for 30 accumulative days in a sixmon period. So this would change it there after 3 days. You could find somebody to talk to about that trailer.

Exactly. Actually the trailer trailer will just be trailer can't sit there at all. Yeah. A car regular car would be three days. And that's the thing to be the driver

of changing it from motor vehicles only, passenger motor vehicles only. Um, that would change it, make it easier to where it's enforcable and all this other stuff that is just cluttering our streets unnecessarily. Um, you know, we can clean it up and get rid of. And it's it's killing two birds with one stone. It is not it is not targeting um houselessness and the derelict motor homes that we have. It is everybody in the city complies with it.

We are cleaning up. Uh the one in the back, well actually both of these RVs, for example, um they both have uh uh extension cords across the sidewalk, which is an ordinance violation. I've talked to both of these residents multiple times. They don't care. They What is What is the citation? $250 per day. So, we don't always We don't know.

No, because it's uh you know, I mean, there's I would literally be there every single day writing the citation and it not going anywhere with the courts. Um, so it's a matter of going to stuff that I can actually deal with and make a difference and change. Um, 8th Street, for example, we had a very bad problem with what's it? No, Clark's place, I think it is.

Oh, yeah. I got all that taken care of on one of the residents on the corner. Um, and I'm still working on the one across the street. So, that is not as sincere or as severe as what is going on on a street. So, it's one of those things where I unfortunately have to pick and choose my battles. Um, and you know, I got to focus on on what's so

what's a lot of it is I I I don't really want to get into the battles we're having with the court right now. Um, but we have had the court throw stuff out. You know, I've seen stuff get thrown out because we didn't have if it was like a 30 consecutive days, we didn't have timestamped photos of 30 consecutive days. And then they'll say, "Well, I can't tell if that's moved or not, even though it's pretty obvious it hasn't moved." Right? It's it's evidentiary issues. It's the DA whether the DA wants to prosecute because once we once we put that into the court system, the DA can choose whether to prosecute that or not. These fines don't go to justice.

Yes. All of them ordinances go to justice. So that's what I'm trying to figure out. I mean, I guess that's that's an issue. I mean, it doesn't Like I I mean I know you don't want to get in that conversation but that's that is the conversation. I mean we can change all the normal like that but the court is is the conversation here is if like what what is needed by us and we are working with court staff to figure that out.

I think we need to create an order that exists in two hours and then we need to write the tickets. If it says a no, then there's there's then I would assume that means that there's not as much evidence needed because just as there's it's no, it's there, right? And so inoperable motor vehicle, for example, um I've had one thrown out because of uh in the ordinance it states that you cannot or what is defined as a inoperable motor vehicle is, you know, expired tax, uh not licensed, not insured per the Oregon statute, stuff like that. Um, but in the fine print that you really got to read there, and it took me a year to see this, in order for it to be an inoperable motor vehicle, it has to sit there for 24 hours and not move. And this was prior to me being able to chalk. So now with the chalking, that gives me the enforcability. Um, but at the same time, I can't prove if said vehicle, RV or whatever belongs to a resident that lives there or not. So, it has to be all across the board of all vehicles. It doesn't matter if you're a resident or not.

Yeah. It has to be fair. And so, need to be cleaned up because they are. I mean, the judge is not going to these these kind of dirty ordinance. They're all over the place. They're not going to give you something about proof of because they say, "Well, send us to prove for us." Yes. And it is going to be a little harder and tighter, but I think it's something we probably need. And again, we can have another work session on on courts and stuff, and I'm not suggesting we do because we don't have jurisdiction over them.

Yeah. I just think I want to make sure I mean I think the reason I say it's a conversation is because if we're going to sit here and have you know the conversation and I I do believe that these are good good edits and stuff is that you know they're all for not if the court if they're not going to be think that is a really important piece of like it's great if the attorney says yeah this looks good but if the court's like hey that doesn't work for me like then we should probably go back to the drawing board because if it doesn't work for them, it's useless. Is it against the rules to invite the Justin to the workshop?

I don't know. And I don't know that if you would invite them, but I think I think you'd be pretty good at telling me. Here's the issues. Okay. Here's why. I think that's just one.

Um, let me move on to a couple other things in the camping ordinance because again some of the homeless issues and the houselessness issues that we wanted to address in this. One of the concerns that was brought up was the city safe resting area and we've done some more research on what we do have to provide, what we don't have to provide. When the internal policy was initially drafted for the state resting area, it would be the parking lot of city hall. Um, at that time we didn't have the care shelter and if I recall correctly, we did not have the Herald uh center over at the Advent Church. Herald was there, but we didn't know that we allow

they were allowing stuff. So, there's nuance to how what we have to provide and what we don't. It seems weird, but we have to provide a safe resting place for camping to find this tent for people sleeping on the sidewalk in a public space if there are no other spots available. We do not have a contract. We have not designated care as a safe resting place. They have asked us not to do that. But for all intents and purposes, care is a place where we can send people literally across the street to have a safe rest place. For overnight cars and RVs that are on the street, we can invite them to go to the Herald Center. We talked with Donna at the Herald Center and she they allow people to come in even if it's 2 a.m. they'll allow people to come in. and they'll check with them first thing in the morning, give them what the rules are, and either send them on their way or people can choose to to abide by the rules there. So, there are options for the city designated safe resting place. We do not have to allow cops. It is only for tents and such like that. If we're only if we limit it to tents and people sleeping on the ground, we do not have to provide restrooms. The only time we would have to provide restrooms is if we allow cars to park overnight. Interesting.

Which is completely

I don't Yeah. But that's the rules and we've verified that three different ways. So the recommendation is to change our internal policy and don't allow overnight parking in the city parking lot here, which has not been an issue for a couple of weeks. the the individual that was being here has moved on. Um, but just for future reference, we can we can change that as an internal policy to say we don't allow overnight parking in the city hall parking lot and if we do have people that are that are tented, we can offer to take them to the Herald Center, we can offer to take the care or if they're on the pavement here, they can stay there until 7 a.m. So, I think that's internal policies that that treats that. Anything other than the safe resting area, we can consider as private property even if it's city-owned and we can trespass for those areas like we've always been able to do. We don't allow people to stay in parks overnight because of the rules of the park or we don't there's no camping in the parks so we can we can trespass people. So for staff's view, the tweaks to the parking ordinances and the motor vehicle ordinances that we have on the books and and the um tweaks to the internal policy about our safe rest in place, I believe meets what the council was looking for with the camping ordinance drafting something.

Currently, right now, we allow parking, but we know how to best. No, we don't. Are we breaking the rules? Yes. coach pushing them. Okay, so going back to 72 a little bit and that kind of that distract. So individuals camping in their vehicle on side of the street in above the fairway if it all up to enforce that if what you know we say you can't be you can't sleep in the vehicle. What what team do we have as a as a city to say you can't do that?

So police can invite them to go to care or to the Herald Center. Okay. And if they say no, if they say no, then we can trespass them because we don't allow sleeping on the public streets in your car as part of the ordinance change that we trespassing from doing that just being there or I think that's the question that I need to clarify with the insurance. That would be the question I'd have because I mean there are people who simply I quote we had one we chased around the block for I don't know how many months, right? Like bring around the bring around the block and it's like it was very clear you could go somewhere but didn't want to. Mhm.

Because there's rules and it's easier to not be someone where there's rules when you're doing nefarious sex. Mhm. So that I guess that's what we might kind of loose end there is all right now there's there is a there's a jeep on third street very clearly has moved for weeks and they're camping

months. Yeah. um what they we don't have anybody done anything there and like the question would be is we approach that what how do how do we move them on where do we move them to um if the vehicle is inoperable you know and say the video say the vehicle broke down they're like well we'd love to move but we can't well okay we still can't sleep in it what are the next steps be able to take care of that for the benefit safety

and and I think the next steps are citations and we talked about citations and setting it to court. Once you hit a certain level of citations, we should be able to add something that the city could tow it, but we've got to look into what that looks like and and setting up the towing uh things again. But I I think there's ways to get there. Um it's just crossing tees and dotting if the council's okay with this direction, which is really what we wanted to get out of the process. One of the things that concerns me were okay with the direction is in the process, you probably have done this a bit. The people who have brought us complaints in system time after time, they need to at least be invited to look at these and make comments.

So the direction because these are ordinance changes, these do have to go to a public hearing and before the council at an open meet. We can't just make these changes tonight. Well, I I get that. I just want to make sure they feel like they so we would invite the stakeholders to the radar meeting in January back and make sure that they were made aware of that uh of those public hearing time. Thank god. Go ahead, Dean.

Well, I just a couple of quick questions backing up. Sean, about five minutes ago, you made mention the uh the um the tent ordinance, and I don't know if that was what you're addressing or tonight just about street parking and that kind of thing. Did you say that everyone has to vacate by 7 a.m. regardless of whether they find a place to stay on a tent legally or not? Is that correct? Yeah. Our internal policy is that the safe resting place is from 900 p.m. to 7 a.m. Okay. That's inside that that's inside those regulations that you were speaking of regarding tents, right?

Okay. So, that doesn't necessarily apply. It sounds to me now and this is just because I'm listening and I'm a little speaker, but um that some of our biggest hurdles are enforcement and the courts. Is that what I heard you also speaking of? Was that understanding? That is that is still the issue and and we'll have at least one solution later on tonight for that. Um but the courts are an entire entirely different

Right. Right. Okay. I didn't mean to be redundant but I just want to clarify for that I heard correctly what you were saying. So Okay. I also have I think a concern. Um you said you had spoken with care and so our position was going to be tell people they can go in care or they can already do something the Herald Center right but then your next breath was almost u asked us not to do that but I hear

no it's not that they haven't asked us to do this they just don't want to have a formal like an IGA or have us designate them as the safe resting spot for for the city because they don't want to there's legal issues on their end that they don't want to mess with. So they are welcoming anybody that is that is their job. That's what they do. Um but they don't want to be the official place that we have to have. You have to have one by statute. Yeah.

Which so now we have to have one by statute. You mentioned you just mentioned like it's kind our internal policy for time frame but if we have to have a statute is I mean I would assume the rules and and the for our safe resting spots need to be in someone. So it's internal policy that the city can have that we can produce for for people that it complies with with the statute. Um it does not have to be an ordinance or something like that allows us to amend or work with it. um as part of our internal stuff. I mean I haven't I mean I've been really impressed actually with the people that have camped out here like

for the most part they've been doing really good for the most part. I mean they keep their stuff together and off they off they're out. I mean it was some of them we do call me. I was really impressed how the care that they took to like abide by the policies. For the most part you never know they are fighting very early.

I I'm personally I'm fine with distraction. I think the idea area was you know for the longest time especially being downtown was you know I call you know and you know chief Charles will be like well I can't do that because it's like well at some point we have to get things in place to say okay we can take care of that and you know and even sometimes you know it's like let's let's not make it easy to break the rules um you know It's there's nothing there's nothing wrong with a council. It's a it's a circumstance that feels an unfortunate circumstance. It's a matter of how how it's you know how do you how do you bring that together in a sense? How do you exist coexist together as a community? And you know it's putting for me it's putting other rules in place of like have health and safety for everybody. Um so I'm fine with this direction. Um is if we can if we can verify with attorneys and kind of a core system that this makes it suitable to for county to be able to enforce any cities that enforce and continue. says given enforcement subs. Oh, I see. I think it's pretty common sense stuff and um there's a big outcry from a lot of people.

That's why I asked Justin and a lot of our ordinances are very validated. Yeah. Uh, and that's why we're doing this bi-weekly going through the ordinances line by line, ordinance by ordinance to see what we can change and what is enforcable, what is not forcable. Um, and you know, go from there. Uh, I to that point that's why we looked at the parking meters, the bicycle licensing. We're going to change these chapters. Let's let's change those because I I've only been here a year and somebody informed me on the last time there was a parking meter downtown.

Years ago. Yeah. Yeah. I think Second Street was the last set of Yeah. So, just to give you an idea of how long that code has been just sitting there with nothing happening to it. So, you So, what are you doing? You send us back the letter with consensus, right? And then you get when you bring it to us, we pass it. We try and get this to start enforcement. Well, we we'll bring this back as soon as we can. And then you can as soon as we put it in, does it have to be put in and put in code to start?

Once it gets put into code, there's 30 days. I'll ask the attorneys about pending ordinance doctrine. Um because sometimes you can start enforcing things if you know an ordinance is imminent. Um, so, um, we can we can look at that, but I think for the most part we can get this through as quickly as we can, as long as soon as we can get these this these line items and stuff drafted and approved by the attorneys. But period. So after the ordinance is passed, how long before like is there a period where can you know just let people know or when is there actual citations or

it's 30 days an ordinance you pass the ordinance to city council. It doesn't take effect until 30 days following. Um but again we can I I'll ask the attorneys about what we get there. It's going to need to be one of those things where obviously we can't send amenities out to everybody. Yeah, we can make that can be shared that can be put in like the water bill and stuff. Yeah, absolutely. I think most of our problems are people knowing they're going over.

Well, it's like I mean I think I think what we were talking about earlier, I mean we we can go and knock on the door and be like, "Hey, you can't have your RV up there and you can't have an extension cord to it." and they, you know, tell Kenny that's nice, have a nice day and well but we don't issue citation because we don't, you know, cuz we can't get traction in the court. So, it's like why listen? I mean, I'm getting free storage. I mean, I pay for storage for R&B, but like I could park it on the road if I, you know, I wasn't going to get I wasn't going to get citations. Can I add one other thing to this? And I'm probably speaking just a little bit out. Um, I did meet with one of the county commissioners last week about how the these the RVs and such are a countywide issue and one of their concerns was that they didn't want to see us take a really hard line on things and then push the problem to uninorporated county to Bay City to Giraaldi and we're just pushing. So there is some undercurrent of a countywide being consistent in the enforcement. They were very interested to know what we were hoping to do and I will follow up with them on this but but we wanted to make sure that you know we don't have very strict rules in one and then non strict rules in the unorporated county in Bay City or vice versa. So, we have home rule. We can do what we want, but we do want to let the county know what we're doing so if they want to follow suit, they can follow suit.

We're not holding anything up for them. Yeah, there's a problem. I don't mind being later. We saw this saw. They're happy with the city either. Okay. So, what I'm hearing from the council is you like this kind of direction, you're okay with where we're at. Um, we will take it back to the attorneys. We'll get some clarification. We'll schedule public hearings as soon as we can on that. Any other questions about this or how we're going? I just appreciate the workshop and all the effort that's been staying in. So,

well, and again from staff's perspective, we knew it took a little bit longer. We we just were trying to fit that square peg into a round pole and we kept going into that the houseless issue when really we wanted to avoid the houseless issue entirely because it just stirs up a hornets's nest that we don't want to be the forefront of. So by making it more of the parking issue and stuff like that, we feel like we're avoiding that that nest. Yeah. I mean, can we get, you know, I mean, is there a way to get a a time frame on this one? I mean, it takes

I'm I'm going to say probably mid July or August. And that's only because I'm looking, we're already at the second meeting in May. We have to do some public noticing on it beforehand. So I don't know where that puts us and being able to get in at June. And we traditionally have canled the first meeting in July. So the second meeting in July would be three meetings from now. Notice just go the conversation. We've taken enough ordinance. It would have to be done by correct.

You have two readings on an ordinance. So you have to read it once and twice. Um the public hearing would be on the first one and we'd want to have a draft available for that because our charter says that any ordinance has to come before the council 7 days before a public hearing. And we're just victims to the calendar there. Council member, I'd love to do it sooner, but I don't want to violate our chart. But we could hold a public hearing that have be done in the city council meeting. Can we hold a public hearing on a different day if we wanted to? I could look into that. I'm just curious. I'm just curious.

We normally cancel the meeting the 4th of July weekend. We normally do that on push it out to the 13th. What are you trying to try to get in the summer just as soon as possible? I mean, we're about to get, you know, he was about to turn to chaos. It does every year, right? And so we This is where I can talk to the attorneys about pending ordinance. Yeah. If they're good with the pending ordinance doctrine, then we can that gives us a little bit more options. But

obviously, but I mean, I didn't know if there's I mean, citizens are I mean, that's drafted. I mean, I didn't know if we could have something back by 15th. You got to remember you got budget hearings in there too.

Yeah, I understand. I just I mean this seems like such a if we're because it's something that it's going to get reviewed put together. I don't think we're spending an hour on time. I don't think it's going to take a lot of time, you know, budget, you know, I get that there budget areas. Um but I mean look at June 15th if we cancelled six meetings for or didn't but um I mean that puts us out until the 20th of July the second 30 days from there we're still so I don't know I just put putting up by the way if we if we go past it to we'll bring back as quickly Anything else?

Thank you, Sean. Thank you, K.

All right, with that we will close the work session and take what 10 minute break. We got 10 minutes. I like this one with the