Board of County Commissioners - workshop

recording in progress okay good morning welcome to the thurston county board of county commissioners agenda setting work session for tuesday september 8th 2026 it's 9 03 a.m my name is ty mentor chair of the board to my left vice chair commissioner wayne fournier virtually is commissioners emily claus rachel grant carolina mejia county manager leonard hernandez listen county managers jennifer walker and josh cummings and clerk of the board Olivia and Amy . So good morning, and we're having live streamed to the Thurston County YouTube channel, and public written comment may be received up to two hours in advance of the Board and distributed to the Board. Action may be taken at this meeting. So first up is an agenda review for next week's business meeting, which is September 15th.

Thank you, Chair. As we get started with the agenda, or the sheriff that we weren't sure if it was going to make today's agenda but it is ready and they will be joining the zoom shortly so when they jump on um we'd like to have that item discussed and we can get a copy to all the board members and that's a potential add to this 15th business meeting okay um i won't be at the 15th meeting so vice chair fournier will be

uh in charge just fyi i'll be on a thing with lot travel for the lot board um okay so looking at the agenda we have district two pledge allegiance land acknowledgement approval of agenda and then we have a proclamation regarding hispanic and latino heritage month yes so currently we have planned um several local speakers

a few local small businesses providing like some treats for us, and then potentially a short dance program as well. Wow, okay. No, usually what? A short dance program. Oh, sweet.

Questions for staff on this one? Okay. Agenda related public comment, county manager's update. I'll be presenting a few items from departments. Okay. Then we will go to consent agenda item one, grant contract for Thurston County Clean Buildings Performance Standards. This is Central Services. Good morning, Kim.

Good morning. Kim Burnett, Director of Central Services. I almost forgot. We're requesting approval of a grant contract with the Washington State Department of Commerce in the amount of $254,320 as part of the required Clean Buildings Act, and authorize the central services director to execute the contract. As included in the commissioner's e-brief on March 10th, 2026, the Clean Buildings Act, HB 1257, passed in 2019, it requires all buildings over 50,000 square feet known as tier one buildings to comply with the clean buildings performance standards. In 2022, the law HB 1543 was expanded to include all buildings between 20,000 and 50,000 square feet, which are known as tier two buildings. The purpose of this legislation is to lower costs and pollution from fossil fuel consumption and improve energy efficiency in the state's larger existing buildings. In September 2025, Central Services completed all of the required benchmarking for both Tier 1 and Tier 2 buildings. The benchmarking identified the energy audits or the energy rating of each building and determined which buildings would require energy audits. Three of the five counties' Tier 1 buildings will require the audit, and all five buildings will require an energy management plan and operations and maintenance programs. uh the grant will cover all of the tier one building audits as well as the five management plans and maintenance programs and this will put us into compliance um and i'd be happy to answer any questions tier two is what twenty thousand tier two is twenty to fifty thousand how many of those do we have uh we have get back to them on that yeah i can get back to you on that i thought i had that in my notes there's five tier one buildings um and i believe i'll get back to you within a different schedule for tier two yes yes that schedule goes out to 2028. okay and what um what for tier one we have like a timeline we're operating under Yes, the completion of Tier 1 benchmarking and the audits and the management plans has to be finalized by June of 2027.

And the money we're getting to help us get there, is that going out to every county, or do we have to compete in some way, or how does that work?

Yeah, the grants became available, and we applied for the grant, and we received what we needed to be able to cover all of the Tier 1 audits and benchmarking. It was available to anyone in the state to apply for. Okay. And we got it.

This is good news. That's great news. Yes. Congratulations. There was concern about, you know, what we were facing in terms of cost to get into compliance.

I think there's still ongoing concern based off of what we find when we do the assessment of the next tier.

Correct, because the audit is then going to tell us what work will need to be done in each of the buildings that are not meeting the energy rating. So there may still be some costs depending on what they find when they do the audit.

So it's a rolling timeline? So if the audits have to be done by this date you mentioned, which is next year sometime, and then if there's major...

upgrades to be done then we have more time yes but we are on a very tight timeline for that as well so we need to figure out what those audits look like and then determine what work needs to be done and then where the funding would come for that we are constantly looking for grants and other funding opportunities so the state will pay for the audit they are paying upgrades we don't know what would happen it depends yeah

And I think that's the larger conversation about the full cost of ownership for our facilities. And this will be rolled into that as we have looking at essentially reporting that out to the board.

Correct. I of course don't want to spend any money on any buildings. We won't own and net release.

So the maintenance plans, these are required. We will be doing those on FJC, the jail, Israel Road, courthouse buildings one, two, and three, and the downtown buildings one and two. This is all tier one buildings. Audits we have to do on FJC, the jail, and Israel Road. So those are all ones that we will continue to own. And the courthouse actually passed the energy rating, the courthouse buildings.

The new ones?

The old ones. Oh, okay. Because they weren't occupied. In some cases, yes, that helped with the rating. Because building three downstairs wasn't occupied. Building one was pretty much vacant. So you don't have to consider them? You had to consider them, but the rating, and Tony probably could explain this much better than me, but because they were vacant, they weren't using as much energy. And so they were able to get under the rating that we needed. Oh. So we just shut the breaker off for the exactly go dark. Yeah.

Okay, other questions for Kim regarding item one. Item two is also central services, setting a public hearing on proposed ordinance amending Thurston County Code Title Two, administration and personnel by adding Chapter 2.03, County Facilities Conduct and Solicitation.

All right, thank you. So we're requesting approval to set a public hearing on October 6th for a proposed ordinance amending Thurston County Code Title II. This would be the addition of Chapter 2.03, County Facilities Conduct and Solicitation and to which will establish standards of conduct for persons entering or using county facilities or properties. This code amendment will establish reasonable and content neutral regulations governing conduct in order to promote safety, respect, accessibility and orderly conduct of public business. Fundamental to this ordinance is the recognition that being critical of the county, its officials or its policies is not by itself grounds for removal or restriction. The ordinance specifically intends to safeguard protected speech and expressive activity while allowing the county to address conduct that crosses the line into actual disruption, threats, or interference with government operations. The county is attempting to regulate conduct, not viewpoint. This approach provides county staff with the tools necessary to maintain safety order and effective government operations while ensuring that enforcement decisions are reasonable, proportionate and subject to review. And in addition, solicitation and commercial activity will be strictly prohibited within county facilities unless it is expressly authorized by the board. The draft ordinance was developed in close consultation with the prosecuting attorney's office. The county also looked to ordinances and established practices in other counties to help inform the framework. As a result of that collaborative effort, the draft ordinance is designed to balance the county's responsibility to maintain safe, orderly, and accessible public facilities with the constitutional rights of individuals to engage in protected speech and expressive activity. In accordance with RCW 36.55.040, notice will be published twice in the official county newspaper and posted in three public places in the county seat. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Questions for Cam on item two? I feel that I've read, like you had, was there? Yeah, but the actual draft, I think I need to just double back on.

So I'll ask you any questions once I do that. Okay.

Any other questions for today, for this item? Okay, I do see the sheriff here. Is that our cue to look at that item?

Thank you, Cam. Thank you, Cam. Thanks for the work that you and the team did on putting this together. The clerk's going to pass out the item. Again, I just want to thank the sheriff. This item was submitted into the agenda system. It was a confusion on our part, thinking that this item related to something else, but the sheriff's team helped us understand that it's a separate item. So we wanted to bring this item back. It would have been reviewed today anyways. So I'll pass over if the sheriff is ready just to talk a little bit about this item.

All right. Well, uh, the, this is the entire RFP. Okay. Um, summary sheet. Just take a second here. Okay, sure. I guess you're up to give us the overview. I know we know kind of what this item is about, but give us a give a summary.

Yeah, good morning. So this is an RFP for the inmate chemical dependency program services, which are set to expire at the end of the year. Again, this is, this is just an RFP because as budget conversations continue, this is also something that could potentially be slashed as well. So this is, I guess, to cover our bases in the event that those corrections positions aren't slashed. But in the meantime, we still need to go out to RFP. So this is just a request to start the MRT chemical dependency RFP.

And Sheriff, I think just for Clarity, this is not the MOU for medical services or the other work that we're doing, the MOUD, which is I think the confusion that we had. So do you mind speaking to that just briefly?

Yeah, so our medical services is a whole other issue. I think we actually meet today myself and the county executive team are meeting today to talk about that. But that's a completely I mean, there is some overlap as people are getting their meds and things like that. But what this is specifically talking about is the chemical dependency program, which has a lot more to do with the different meetings and things like that that we host inside the office. So those are 2 separate 2 separate.

entities um and again this is just a request to go out to rfp again uh so that we can have a contracted provider for that thank you for that clarification i got it now um how long have our has our current provider been doing the cdp in jail i mean it was the same for a long time i don't know if it's changed more recently i would

Yes, 15 years that I know of because OHRS, I can't, I don't remember what they went by, but it was with them. So we've had the same vendor for quite a few years.

Yeah. Okay. That's consistent with my questions for the sheriff's team on this item, which will be a consent item or is that the proposal new consent item added to this agenda? Any questions?

Sorry if you said I was trying to speed read the RFP. Is this for a one-year contract?

Don't believe so. Usually it's a multi-year contract.

Okay.

Five? Five.

Five years? Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Sharon. Okay, let's go back to item three, commissioner's office requested proposals for state government affairs services.

So we have our esteemed consultant, Deb Munguia, who's done a great job for the county over the years, is heading into retirement, well-deserved retirement. So we're letting out the RFP to find a new lobbyist for the state. The contract is not to exceed $60,000 per year. So I wanna try and get that out as quickly as possible so we can get some replies back before, ahead of the upcoming legislative session.

Okay, any questions? what would be the anticipated process for reviewing proposals?

Yeah, it's listed in the RRP itself in terms of the scoring process. And then we are considering how best to include the appropriate policymakers as well.

Yeah. OK, other questions for Josh? OK, then we'll move on to item Thank you, Chair.

This is an item that the county is facilitating on behalf of the TCD. The process includes the county holding a public hearing on a proposed ordinance and if the board so wishes to approve an ordinance that adjusts their rates and charges.

Okay. that this is in response to a request from the tcd to do so any questions for staff on this one all right uh next up is five community economic revitalization board curb grant resolution cpeg

Good morning, Commissioners. I'm joined today by Nick Bonnard. He has been supporting the economic development initiatives down in CPED. And we're really grateful. About a quarter of his time is spent in support of economic development initiatives with a focus particularly on the fairgrounds and event center. as well as economic development in Grand Mount.

So I'm going to turn it over to him.

He's a new voice in the boardroom.

Good morning, commissioners. So as Ashley said, I mostly work as a senior planner in CPED, but one of the things I've been doing in my economic development role is helping with the grant application. So this is a, we're requesting $50,000 from the Community Economic Revitalization Board, CERB. And it's really an exciting opportunity to help see what we can do to unlock the potential of the fairgrounds. know just every year we host an amazing event the county does and also everywhere every year it seems like we're looking okay what do we need to spend on maintenance what are some big picture things we can we can do with our money if we upgrade the kitchens or if we upgrade our campground facilities so every year this conversation about how best to use our funds and so what we're applying for thousand dollar match from the enterprise fund from the fairgrounds enterprise fund that will be combined and we will give it to a consultant to help us do an economic evaluation of um investments we can make in the fairgrounds and also sort of a road map so it's sort of like here's all the maintenance needs we have every year here are some big picture ideas what we could spend if we had a little bit more money and then you know at a funding level of 25 000 a year or 50 000 a year What should our plan be? How do we maximize? How do we unlock what we have in the fairgrounds currently? So that's the gist of it. The reason we're here is all curb applications require a resolution from the board in order to submit. Our application is due on September 28. And so we're here to check that box. And then if we were to be awarded, we'll make the announcements, come back, and happy to chat more about what exactly to do with the money that we get. It's exciting.

So this is exciting. Thank you and welcome to the boardroom. So is the total for the grant then 62,500 or is the 12.5 thousand included in the 50,000?

No, so if awarded, we would get $50,000 from the state, and then we would have to match $12,500 from county funds. But in this case, it'd be the Fairgrounds Enterprise Fund. So the total would be $62,500 that we'd have to spend on this project.

OK. And do you see any reason why it might go beyond that amount? Or will this definitely cover the whole cost of the study?

Yeah, this will, you know, when we put out the RFP, it's going to be limited at 62,500. Okay. Awesome.

Thank you.

Agree with you that the fairground is a place with a lot of potential. Yes. And I know that, uh, we had some conversations even with commissioner Fournier about the, um, opportunity to work with the city of Lacey, uh, and the park that's there with waterfront. So it's great that you are taking the initiative and applying for funding opportunities.

Yeah. And, you know, I think if we get this, and even if we don't get this, it'll be an opportunity to bring some of these partners together, the fair board, city of Boise, and decide, you know, what we want to do together to make it, to make a better experience.

This gets two thumbs up from me. And then like CURB, if you do get the planning grant from CURB, they like to give this grant to projects that they like. And so going through this process, of course, I'm sure you know, this primes us for getting additional grants to do whatever it is we plan for and like no interest loans. So CURB is a great organization to work with. Great point.

And thanks to EDC, they've been a great partner and guide since this is a new granting pot that CPED has put together an application for. Awesome.

All right, cool. Next up is item six, World Health Transformation Program grant funding.

Welcome back, Ben.

Good morning, Commissioners. Ben Miller-Todd, Director of Emergency Services. I also struggle with the title just a little bit. I have to have my refresher here, but this is for the Rural Health Transformation Program. This is an interlocal with Washington State Department of Health. Our procurement policy requires us to come in front of you for any interlocal agreements. It's for $3,000. It offsets the cost of responding to a survey that they're asking. and so the state is doing a stepwise process to assess rural health needs in the state of washington from an ems standpoint all the way up and through primary care and long-term health and so with that to help offset those costs they're contracting with each of the 39 county mpds and offices to help offset pulling materials responding to the survey and it's just a flat reimbursement so that's what this is

Any questions for Ben on item six? Thank you. Perfect. Thanks. Item seven is interagency agreement number 1061-20-2031 with Tacoma Pierce County Health Department.

Yes. Good morning. Jen Fry, Director of Public Health and Social Services. And this is a request for the board to move to approve an interagency agreement with the Tacoma Pierce County Health Department. This is for providing our online food worker training and the testing and the card that's issued to residents and out of state residents of Thurston County for the term of January 1, 2027 to December 31, 2031, simply because our current agreement, which we've had in place since 2010 is expiring at the end of this year. And so this is a shared service model. We have Tacoma Pierce has been helping us with this for over a decade, simply for efficiency sake. We could do our own issuance of cards, but it's sometimes easier when one health department does it for multiple jurisdictions. There's no cost to us. There will be an increase in the Tacoma Pierce County Health Department fee from three to 350 that gets passed on to the requesters. It has not been raised since 2010. SO WE DON'T FORESEE ANY PARTICULAR CONCERN WITH THAT $0.50 RAISE PER CARD. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

QUESTIONS ON THIS ONE? THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. ITEM 8 IS ON-CALL ENGINEERING AND PROFESSIONAL CONSULTING SERVICES CONTRACTS FROM PUBLIC WORKS.

Good morning, Karen Reyes, Public Works Director. The first item we have is a request to approve amendments to two on-call consultant contracts to increase funding limits. We have 10 on-call consultant contracts in place, which were awarded in July of 2024. As you know, these contracts supplement our staff's technical abilities in areas of like examples are civil and transportation engineering geotechnical services environmental materials inspection they allow us to obtain needed services to keep our projects on track with our available staffing resources and respond quickly in emergencies and emergency conditions for each contract we do a second tier competitive evaluation prior to choosing one of our on-call consultants to ensure the best approach and value for the project When we initially awarded these contracts in July of 2024, we did an estimate of maximum amounts needed based on our expected needs over the next five-year period. But we're routinely analyzing those contracts to ensure we have adequate funding to address our future needs. And so we identified two contracts, one with KPFF and OTAC, Inc. And those have been identified for the funding increases that we're requesting. The proposed increases are $150,000, taking those contracts from $250,000 to $400,000. That's a request to the board.

Questions for Karen on items?

Yes, I do. Thank you. Do we have capacity to increase the contracts?

Well, those they're within the project budgets, right? We take those funds when we when we award a task or when we award a contract, it's within the project budget for that particular project. So within that, so it could be a grant or right, it could be from a grant funded project and transportation impact fees. I think you're getting back to the question down the road of our project capacity and available funding, right? That will be an issue down the road when we no longer have a match for certain grants potentially. But this is to address those needs that are in the immediate future with the projects that we currently have.

Thank you. These two agencies, KPFF and OTAC, where are they based out of? Are they local? I know they have local offices.

So OTAC, they have multiple offices. They're a big company. Vancouver, Portland, and Seattle. We're working specifically, I believe, with the Vancouver office.

Okay. And how often do you think we end up utilizing these services since they're on call. Do we do that? We use them frequently. Probably.

I would have to go back to give you a specific number, but I think we're probably doing some sort of an on-call contract, maybe at least twice a month.

Okay. full service design team, but sometimes we have to reach out to the experts for those specific activities, such as like geotechnical investigations or hydraulics or stuff like that. So we try to do as much as we can in-house, but every once in a while we have to ask help from the experts.

Thank you. Well, and also within our staffing limits, right? We don't staff up for the maximum peak project time we staff for. consistent projects. And then when we have ebbs and flows in that, we'll take advantage of our on-call consulting contract. Thank you.

Next public works item is number nine, award progressive design build services contract for Thurston County Warwick Reconfiguration.

Okay. So we're here with, I think, an exciting step. We're going to be asking the board to request the awarding of a contract for progressive design build services for the Thurston County Waste and Recovery Configuration Project to form a construction. We did provide an e-brief to the board on Friday, August 7th, awarding this contract's a big step for us in this project. It continues to move forward on track thanks to a great collaborative team, which includes a partnership with central services staff Tony Shaw, who's also here today and our owner advisory and construction management services consultant, which is Turner Townsend and hearing just because it's such a big project for purposes of discussion today, I want to remind about the why we're taking this approach to the project. This has unique design challenges based on the site that we are going to be reconfiguring, requires a high level of coordination between the county, the design team and the construction team to ensure we have great project delivery while maintaining services at the Waste and Recovery Center in Hawkes Prairie. This is a site essential to the community for solid waste disposal and processing. So it needs to remain commercially active during the entire project. This method, a single entity is responsible for both phases, the design and construction phase under a single contract. And that enhances our collaboration and communication and coordination between the teams and provides for increased agility and flexibility and responsiveness throughout the process. Department of Enterprise Services Project Review Committee approved our approach in February of 2026. We then had a competitive RFQ RFP fee proposal evaluation process and form of construction in partnership with TCF architecture was selected as the design build team. We've been negotiating the contract and we are bringing that forward for approval. The next phase in this project will be to do, it's the pre-construction and design services phase, but we'll be doing a phase 1A, which is called validation. And the intended outcome of that is to confirm our scope of services and our site plan. And that will become the basis of design for the next phase of that pre-construction and design services phase. we anticipate that the pre-construction and design services will conclude in early summer of 2027 and that will then be followed by our construction phase so the estimated contract cost is 24 million six hundred fifteen thousand and that is within a an overall board approved budget of twenty eight million five hundred fifty thousand dollars and this is all going to be funded within solid waste tipping fees And I do want to, I'm going to be bringing a revised proposed motion that more clearly reflects the action that we're asking the board to take. And so I prepared that motion and I would work with Amy and Olivia to get that revised on the agenda. But here is the proposed motion. Move to authorize Public Works to award the contract for the Thurston County Waste and Recovery Center reconfiguration project to form a construction. Authorize the Director of Public Works to execute contract amendments for subsequent projects phases and unforeseen conditions not to exceed the estimated total contract cost of $24,615,000 and to award phase 1A validation of progressive design build contract in the amount of $157,896.41. That's going to replace what's here. I think we should have that as a department item. That's, that's completely fine. And what you I mean, I also will just say we will continue as we have been giving the board regular ongoing updates as to where we are in this process. And I, I anticipate several whether they're, you know, reports or work sessions with the board to let them know the where we are in the design process and you know, let you see the results of the design process as we go forward. This will not be. This will not be. Oh, and by the way, the project's complete, Board.

I know that. I just think the optics of the Board authorizing $24 million on a consent doesn't, it's probably not the best way to handle an item like that.

And then we can work offline with the clerk on that proposed motion in understanding the need for the change. Absolutely.

Form of I don't know, TCF architecture, no form of construction is like super local, super local. So that's kind of exciting. Other questions on this?

Yeah. So the the revised motion actually answers most of what I was gonna ask you, which was, you mentioned during kind of briefing us on this. that they would be responsible for the next phase as well. So I was going to ask if you'd be coming back for the next phase, but with your revised motion, it sounds like that would prevent you from having to come back. It would cover every phase. Is that right?

Yes. We're trying to build in that responsiveness and agility that I mentioned right through the process, knowing that the importance of continuing to communicate with the board is really critical because we want you to know exactly what's going on with this project to take advantage of the progressive.

Yes. process.

I know FORMA is a really well-known, reputable agency. They're doing a ton of projects in town. If we do happen to have any issues with the contract, will there be opportunities for the county to revise or pull out if we have to?

Yes, there are. There are exit options along the way, and one of them would be at the end of this pre-design and construction before don't anticipate I don't expect it either expected to be smooth sailing we really went through a really um rigorous process of selecting um this team and so we feel really good and I know that the team has just expressed how beneficial the collaboration coordination has been yeah thank you I like the idea of moving it to department items it is a lot of money the other ones look like

You know, the other ones that we kept on the consent calendar, there's a lot of money associated with, but it's setting public hearings to discuss them. So then I would imagine they'll be on department items when they come for further consideration. But this one, I'm with moving it.

Okay. We have more public works? Yes, you do. All right, very good. Item 10, yes. I intend his license and indemnity agreement for a private tunnel beneath South Road. Matt Anselman, County Engineer.

THE GOSPEL OUTREACH CHURCH AT 1925 SOUTH BAY ROAD IS PROPOSING TO CONSTRUCT A PRIVATE CONCRETE TUNNEL UNDERNEATH SOUTH BAY ROAD. IN RECENT YEARS THE CHURCH CONSTRUCTED AN ENHANCED PEDESTRIAN CROSSING ACROSS SOUTH BAY ROAD TO FURTHER IMPROVE SAFETY FOR STAFF AND CHILDREN WHO LIVE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD AND NEED TO ATTEND SCHOOL OR CHURCH. For even further safety, the church is proposing the construction of a tunnel beneath South Bay Road. Gospel Outreach has applied for a right-of-way permit to construct a tunnel. Prior to issuance of the right-of-way permit and construction beginning on this private tunnel, an indemnification agreement for the right-of-way crossing is required to be executed by the Board of County Commissioner, similar to any other utility crossing that would cross the right-of-way. An e-brief was sent to the Board of County Commissioners on July 14th, 2026, summarizing the project. The project was also presented to the Board of County Commissioners during a work session on August 5th, 2026.

That was a really good work session. Thank you for bringing that forward and explaining what is a pretty complicated project and the nuances of responsibility that the property owner will take with that tunnel.

So this is just kind of the next step in the process of what you outlined on this. Correct. This one's interesting to me.

It's rather unusual. And it's being treated like a utility, right?

Like a utility easement, but I would say this indemnification agreement is much more complicated than our utility agreement. It outlines all of the, they have to provide us with routine inspections. They have to provide us what the long-term maintenance strategies are. And what if gospel outreach goes away?

What's the exit strategy? All good questions. Cause like, I don't think of it like a utility crossing. I think of it like building a bridge or building a sidewalk. And when you, I've never heard it like a private bridge or a private sidewalk is, is, is problematic. And how do you, you know, how will we ensure that it's built correctly? I'm sure you have an answer for that, but I'd like to hear it. And then, you know, anytime you've got public property that is then is it, Is this publicly accessible once it's built, or is this a private bridge or a private tunnel that is put under a public road where public property is then restricted? Because under the road is public property, just like a sidewalk is public property. How do you restrict public access? Are we selling the land?

It actually extends beyond the right-of-way limits on both sides. So the ramps going in and out, are on private property.

And so, yes, that will be restricted. Even the access underneath the road is restricted because of the restrictions on the private property and restricting public access to that public property.

private property where the access points are, but under the ground. It's just a bridge underground. If it was a bridge over the top of the road, we would all be like, oh yeah, that's over the road. People have to have access to that airspace or whatever over the road. We're restricting access under subterranean. I understand the access points, but is it okay to restrict access when there's public property involved?

My answer would be, well, we have private bridges that extend beyond the right-of-way on both sides. Before we did the road transfer down in Grand Mound, the casino bridge, that actually expands beyond the right-of-way on both sides. There's no public access from the public right-of-way.

And we don't want access under the road because we want to make sure that there are not activities and things that we wouldn't have awareness of or that we would have to be responsible for.

But this creates a situation where there may be activities.

Well, no, because we're requiring them to keep those, to not allow access except for their intended purpose.

What will it be?

A secret door with a keypad or something?

So they do have security doors and they do have security cameras. What does that mean, a security door? So like when the tunnel is not in operation, I can't tell you exactly what the door looks like, but there's some physical door to prevent access to the tunnel.

Sure. In the briefing. Yeah.

And then is there like a, um, like a, what do you call it when they do that? A reclamation or something, you know, like if they, if they were to like sell the property that they have to like fill in the tunnel and put it back the way it was, there's an abandonment strategy.

I remember they have to bond this for a lot of money.

That's what the number is, but I can't. Was there also mention of other cameras, or was that? Yeah, cameras. So it's their responsibility to protect, and that's partly why we wanted you to see it, because if you would just see an item here and you have not been able to see it on a map or see the- I drove out there.

it's it's interesting it's good if this goes through it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out and the road is high you know i mean if you had children crossing that road i can see where there would be concerns it's definitely what is it 45 miles per hour i would encourage if you haven't seen the attachment to the agenda item there's a pretty good rendering drawing of the tunnel

and it goes from residential area, the church is building a tunnel under the road from the residential area to the church. Okay, other questions on item 10? All right.

consider transfer portions of the Yelm Rainier to 9-0 Trail.

Okay, this is another one. Yes, this is one that has been.

Can we put the other one on department head items? I just, it's interesting to me and I just don't want it to like, just, I don't have any further questions. As far as we're concerned about department items. Part of me is like, I'm just curious if like they came in and be like, this is what we're, you know, I've I don't know. Maybe it's not necessary.

I was going to ask the same thing, actually. And I was also going to ask, sorry to bring us back. You said they had to bond it for a lot of money. How much is that?

So they have to bond for the estimated construction cost. Plus, I believe it's 50%. If it's not 50%, I'll follow up with you. But it's either 20% or 50%.

And the construction amount is?

From talking with the applicant, it's close to $1 million.

I can ask Paul. Talk about that bond and why we're taking it out and what's the surety for that project?

Sure. So let's say for some reason the church goes out of business or it's no longer operational and they leave us with this tunnel that gives us a strategy to go ahead and abandon. So we can go after Abandoned they don't do it themselves if they don't do it themselves.

They just dissolve. There's no person responsible rest.

So this is that insurance Which is I think the Without that bond this project wouldn't most likely would not move forward. Absolutely.

We would not have the ability Church gets on a plane and goes to some other country.

So I think that's why I'm I think Public Works has done a really great job of looking at all the angles. You've been working with the county attorneys, and it's unusual that a private group would have the resources to do something like this. I'm not sure that I've seen this in my career. So working through all those dynamics to make sure that the county's interests are protected and that we are not left holding the bag. Let's say that they're around for decades and decades, which we hope they are. What happens if that tunnel needs to be enhanced or retrofitted for wear and tear?

So that's another reason we can go after that bond. And they have to bring it up to... appropriate standards. You mentioned standards before and they have to meet like all the same bridge specifications that we would have to meet. So from a structural analysis, everything they're doing meets all the standards that we would have to meet as well.

Okay, let's go on to the trail. And before we start, Wasn't there like the the naming of this trail was like something people were trying to you know like they would call it the tri-trail.

Oh I don't know that may be.

Now it's back to Yelm Rainier to Nino. And we have spelled out that that will be maintained as Yelm Rainier to Nino Trail. I call it the Tenino Rainier Yelm Trail. There was a lot of chatter about this a couple of years ago. Sounds cool. I didn't remember exactly where it landed. But tri-trail, I remember hearing, which was reversing the order. Oh, OK. People trying to come up with something. T-R-Y, not T-R-I. Depends on where you start. Yurt versus the tri.

Because it was the Yelm Rainier. And then it became the Yelm Rainier Tenino.

And I've slowly been trying to convert it.

OK, well, you won't be able to, because now it's going to be in an agreement that it's going to be the Yelm Rainier to Nino Trail.

Not yet.

OK, well, you've got a short window. OK, so in April of 25, the board directed Public Works to proceed with the transfer ownership of a 1.6 mile portion of the Yelm Rainier to Nino Trail located at the end of the trail within the Yelm urban growth area to the city of Yelm. We have been working through that process. It took some time because we needed to work with WASDOT, Washington State Department of Transportation for authorization. We needed to amend a grant agreement with the Recreation and Conservation Office who contributed grant funding. for the original acquisition of those properties. And we've been developing interlocal agreement with the city of Yelm for the transfer. We've now completed all of those steps. We're ready to set a public hearing. And so we're asking the board to set that public hearing for October 20th, 2026 at 3 30 PM to hear testimony and consider the proposed transfer of the 1.6 mile portion. And following the hearing, we will then request the board authorized the execution of the RCO grant agreement. which adds the City of Yelm as a secondary sponsor, as well as execute the interlocal agreement between Thurston County and the City of Yelm, and there'll be execution of property deeds associated with the child transfer.

Thank you for your work on this. This started off with, I understand, a request from, I believe it was the city's coming forward, and I know you have a lot going on, so thanks for meeting with them and bringing it to ground.

Back to our great staff.

I just have the same comment, which is, you know, it's taken a ton of coordination between all of their different departments. And I just really appreciate everyone who kept working on all the details on this. So thank you for all the work.

i was going to say the same thing it's one of the great example like the elected official like this would be a great idea why that's stupid why we don't you know and then to actually make it happen is there's so many pieces so thank you for working it all through i do think it'll benefit the community in the long run with the ability of yelm to do maintenance and upgrades and enhancements so thank you Next up are some appointments, which I think we've already kind of decided. These are just formal action on Greg Schoenbockler to the SWAC and a couple of folks to the Veterans Advisory or Veterans Board, John Mangold and Amanda Spearin. Any questions from the board on these? Okay. Then we have voucher lists from August 10th and 17th. And that completes the consent items. Moving to department item, the 1st, 1 is public defense, your local agreement with city of water for indigent defense, legal services and, um.

Yeah, sure. This item was covered actually last night, but it was, it was pulled because Patrick wasn't available. So the same update applies. Patrick will be available to make the department item request, but we had a quite a busy morning and he just asked if there was any questions he would be happy to answer them. Okay, so the main question was about is this full cost recovery and we verify that it was.

Okay, any other questions on this item? Okay, then we'll have general public comment, community reports, and then a public hearing at 3.30 regarding road standards. This is a proposed resolution to adopt 2026 Thurston County Road Standards. This is a standard item.

It's a standard item. Yes, yes. And I believe that the public works director or county uh engineer sent an email so this was reviewed at the last agenda setting they sent a follow-up email with i believe it was six different um roads i believe the reason that they left is because this is the second time it was talked about but if there are additional questions we can certainly follow up yeah olivia did you follow up on behalf

Okay, then let's move on to the next item on the morning's agenda, session agenda, which is advisory board's updates. And I see we've got some movement on treatment sales tax.

Yes, thank you, Chair. We, on Friday, emailed you All of the eight applications that were received as a part of TST's recruitment, the advisory committee has reviewed all of the applications and recommends four of the eight to be seated for the four vacancies. And we know this is quite a thick packet and a lot of applications, so we're happy to answer any questions and circle back next week.

Okay, so you're saying that the committee itself has seen these and recommended the top four there? Yes. Okay. And then we're going to be asked next week to maybe talk about this. Yes, we've got all the applications here.

Yeah, there's a application.

I haven't had a chance to go through them myself. So that's good. One candidate wrote a book. Set aside some time. Okay, so is any questions for today on on that item. Well, I guess we'll get deeper into it next week. Okay. Are there other advisory boards we need to be?

That was all. Okay.

Perfect. We'll take this up next week and we'll set this aside for review. All right. Next up is the 2027

Thank you, Chair. This is, in your packet, you'll have a smaller packet of materials to review this morning. We have a proposed 2027 meeting schedule. because of some of the technicalities to setting the schedule, we're hoping to get more direction today and include it on a business meeting agenda prior to the next couple of weeks.

I was smiling because those technicalities are normally do this a little bit later in the year, but because our clerk is, um, in the next couple of weeks will be departing around January. We wanted to have a chance to take a look at some proposed direction for the meeting schedule with her present so that she can provide any historical context or the background.

I'll walk through the proposed adjustments to next year's calendar compared to this year's. So first we propose prioritizing the Tuesday morning work session like this morning and using a placeholder on Wednesdays, just one placeholder, whereas now we have a work session on Tuesday morning, a work session on Wednesday, and a placeholder on Wednesday. So we would essentially be just reducing to one placeholder on Wednesday. Next for the planning sessions, we would just propose to adjust the start time to 1.30 p.m. versus 1.00 p.m. to stay consistent with our other Wednesdays that start at 1.30. And lastly, for new employee orientation, we'll be restructuring the format and propose to include a quarterly meet and greet during a business meeting in place of a proclamation presentation. So we would invite all the new employees to our business meeting, run through their names, introduce them, and we would take our recess to give the board an opportunity to connect with those new employees during that time.

Part of the reason for that board is I think Maria sent out an update about some of the staffing changes in her shop and that position. We just learned how many years was Amy? Was it 25? Yeah, she was in the position for quite a while. She is moving on from the county, and so we wish her all the best. And so we're looking at ways to facilitate that engagement with the board, which we think is real positive, but in a bit of a different way since Maria is losing a bit of capacity right now.

to interface with our new employees. That's such a valuable time.

And right now, the new employee orientations are not every month anyways, because they tend to wait until they have a certain number of employees. The one we just had last week had about 20 some, but we didn't have a new employee orientation for about three months at that point. So we believe that there's an opportunity for us to still do the engagement. The other part of his new employee orientation is very, it's almost all digital now. And so there's employees were coming in just for that engagement. So we feel we are looking at a way to accommodate a couple of different priorities, but still giving the board an opportunity to have a time to meet the new employees and say hi. FROM THE DIES, YOU CAN GIVE YOUR PERSPECTIVE OF THE COUNTY OR A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE POINTS YOU'RE COVERING ALREADY IN YOUR EMPLOYEE ORIENTATION.

WE REVIEWED IT IN THE AGENDA SETTING MEETING ALREADY. i like it i think that the change in the new employee approach is both practical and there's i think potential for it to be more meaningful because you know all the commissioners are going to be here there's going to be like us there would be a social opportunity afterwards and then i like you know we always do our our kind of picture when we do proclamations. I like the idea of, you know, a stairway pick with all the new employees and introducing them to the community in a public setting. So I think I think it's cool. Cool change.

Also, we discussed like I encouraged, we've not been utilizing the planning sessions, you know, as we had in the past, and I can imagine we're just talking about into that setting that would be productive and maybe trying to make more use of it. So I'm just saying bringing it up now because they've been canceled a lot in recent months, but I think we're going to try to change that and get appropriate topics on there and try to use that time.

Yeah, we have one for this month coming out with legislative priorities and some other topics.

Some of those longer term topics that need board, the five of us together. Okay, sorry, Commissioner Grant.

Yeah, I just wanted to check in on the second week. We had kind of adjusted the second Wednesday of the month to not have a board work session in the morning. And that was, I think, somewhat had something to do with what it does. Transportation Policy Board is on that morning and also ORCA is on that morning. So I just wanted to check in on that.

Yeah, on the proposed schedule, the second week has the proposed placeholder work session on Wednesday at 1 30 PM.

Okay.

Yeah. If you look at your calendar, it's the, the morning is bumped to the afternoon for that particular second. That was think Fisher classes. Recommendation because of work. Yeah, we both have policy boards early though. Right. Or they move it later.

Oh, sorry. I'm looking at the wrong. I'm sorry. Looking at the wrong. I'm looking at last year's meeting, a weekly meeting schedule. So I just realized that's why I didn't see it. Got it fixed.

all right great any other questions for and then we've got our meeting date schedule and that's always good to take a look at because depending on how certain holidays fall there's little tweaks and county leaders conference and then the commissioner the summer recess which has a we do have a meeting on June 22nd and then but then there's the way the calendar falls it's

I did have a recommendation for like planning session as well because I have noticed and one of the things that I know we have kind of like a joint appointed directors, but one of the things that I always kind of got benefit and is kind of having that face time. And so maybe like once a month we can just have the directors rotating. uh, to come and give like a, just a presentation, like a, just a, um, update on the department and how things are going and, um, just a planning session recommendation topic, uh, for the future. Um, I think it would just be good to just, you know, have them on a rotating basis and just like one on five with the board.

That could be kind of an anchor, an anchor topic. And then we add things on top of that. I don't know. Thanks. Okay, we could give that a try.

Like during the planning sessions?

Yeah, like a planning session could be a department plus whatever other items we need to discuss. That would give it like a good reason to be, to regularize it. Sure.

Yeah, so I, my thoughts on this are kind of like, I hope that we use the placeholders because it feels, either we could use the placeholders or maybe we could start trying out subcommittees of some sort because our time together is really valuable and meeting just only once a week aside from these occasional meetings on Wednesdays feels like we aren't utilizing our time to the fullest extent. I think we could get more out of our time if we were keeping some of our Wednesdays more regular versus having the placeholders. I like coming together as a board. And over the last couple of years, I've seen the time together reduced down. We used to meet three days a week and now we meet two days a week. And this is proposing that we meet for sure once a week and then maybe twice a week, except for the week where we have planning sessions. So if there's an opportunity to maybe have another week where we definitely meet on Wednesdays, I think there's a lot of work to be done and there are multiple reasons that coming together is a positive thing and that there's no shortage of work to be done. So I feel like not meeting every Wednesday. Yeah, for me personally, I would like to be here with the board to work on the things we need to work on. And then I think also optically, it might look strange to the public that we're only meeting once a week. which is about the same as like our city councils who are part-time and we're full-time. So I feel like there's a good reason to come together on Wednesdays more often.

You're right. The reason that these work sessions sometimes get canceled is, is because there's nothing on the agenda. Like we drive the agenda. So with these things as placeholders, it's incumbent on us to put, Subjects out there and if and if that week comes up and there's there's nothing to be deliberated as a body There's you know, that's that's our job, you know so like just saying it's a placeholder is fair because If we're not driving an agenda for those days There's no real reason and if I think it can become problematic if we just get together and come up with things Right like that if we're not if we're not following a plan and we're just meeting and we're like, we should come up with ideas. In my mind, that is problematic. So it's on us to drive the agenda and do it coordinated and in alignment with staff and everybody else. So we have the ability to do that and putting the placeholder marker in there gives us that ability. uh but then as far as like the rest of the week if there's not a scheduled board meeting that doesn't mean we're not working and you know that i mean like most of our work is done outside of here meeting with the community we're outward facing you know ensuring that we're like embedded in there and know what the community's needs are that's that's work that can't be done in here uh so You know, I don't want to I don't want to mischaracterize that or the optics because, you know, when we got on the board, we were meeting time. Carolina can speak five days a week, five days a week.

And I mean, it was literally impossible to do the committees and the five that the streamlining happened because we had five commissioners and there was no way to get the committee assignments and all of our personal commitments with state level stuff. coordinated when we were meeting as a board five days a week?

My belief was when we meet, this whole organization essentially comes to a stop. Everybody outside of this room is looking into this fishbowl to see what's going on. When we came in here five days a week, I remember looking around and every leader is in the room. It's not always clear that they really need to be in the room, And then they're in the room three times to tell us the same thing. The question I ask is like, who's steering the ship? Who is outside of the fishbowl steering the ship? And there was no answer to that. And then, you know, it was, it did feel like all the staff there, you know, they're watching our meetings because you know, they are, because as soon as you're like, well, I wonder what public health banks, all of a sudden they start piling in from their office to come in and respond to that because they want to be responsive to the commissioner. So like, I think everybody's watching, you know, watching on YouTube, what we're doing and we can't have that. They've gotta be, they've gotta be working. They gotta be accomplishing the things that, you know, the goals that are set for them. So, you know, like, I don't want to mischaracterize us saying that we're condensing our efforts and creating efficiencies for the organization, that the narrative is not we're working less. The narrative is we're working more efficiently, in my belief.

I just want to say one more thing about the placeholder, and maybe, Amy, tell me if I've got this right. I think what you what you do is it's what I've seen you do is like you sort of take the most important items and they go to Tuesday, basically. And then like if there if there's more items that need to go to Wednesday, they go to Wednesday. And if there aren't those items, then that's when we can we cancel it because there's, as Commissioner Forney said, there just aren't enough things that need to be addressed. It's sort of a way to. but to call it a placeholder doesn't mean we're not, we don't like if there's work and it's happening, you know, it's just when, when that list is shorter than what Tuesday can accommodate and what Tuesday and Wednesday need, then there's no reason for us to show up here when there's not enough business to be addressed that week.

And I think this schedule doesn't take away. Well, I know it doesn't take away the ability for the board to meet any day of the week, which we've seen sometimes the work getting so heavy, like during budget time when we've had to do a Thursday or even a Friday afternoon one time. But that is what we're tracking is when the board asks requests for work sessions or input, we track the department's ability to put that information together and get it timely. We're balancing deadlines of when items are coming. And if we can get it onto a Tuesday, we do. But if a Tuesday is too tight, Chair, you're right, then and it's in consultation with the chair and vice chair. We'll look to keep it on a Wednesday to make sure that it has enough space. And sometimes there's a week that there's like one executive session and an item, and then all of a sudden by the end of the week, there's three or four items and we're managing to make sure that the board has enough time to digest and get through those items and the staff have enough time to prepare the meaningful material so that you can have a good conversation.

Yeah, I would never like, I would never. And again, they check with the chair. I think that's in our bylaws or whatnot. So I do get asked about that, but I would never bump something that was on a Wednesday for any reason. And I mean, you know, if, if, if there's an item that needs to be addressed because of some other reason, like those days are priority for the board and it is, it is really compared to the past. It is really nice to have, the structure like this to schedule our other stuff on the other days because it was really it was so random from week to week that you couldn't i could like something i'd go somewhere and be like can you do september 24th i don't know you know i mean maybe my phone will help me but like there was no way for me, I had no structure to my, you hadn't, the commissioners had no structure to their schedule from week to week because it was literally random every week other than Tuesday afternoon. Right. Yeah.

Maybe just to provide some clarity. So from staff's perspective, the placeholders, we don't assume that those will be canceled. we definitely want the time on the calendar to have to hold. And it's really just the first and second week that would fall different each month, where right now, the first week in the afternoon on Wednesday, there is a placeholder for one hour. And on the second week, there is a placeholder in the morning. And we prioritize this afternoon one that week. Third week, we would have the placeholder work session in the morning, followed by the ELECTEDS OR APPOINTEDS ROTATION THAT AFTERNOON. ON THE FOURTH WEEK WOULD BE THE PLANNING SESSION. SO IT'S REALLY JUST THOSE TWO.

OKAY, YEAH, THANK YOU. I SAW THAT AS WE WERE TALKING THAT THE BOARD WORK SESSION WITH THE ELECTEDS AND APPOINTEDS IS ALSO GUARANTEED MEETINGS.

IN THEIR AVAILABILITY, YES.

SO I ALSO WAS WONDERING, BECAUSE WE HAVE A ROTATIONAL SCHEDULE, WELL, TWO THINGS ABOUT THE ROTATIONAL SCHEDULE PART AT THE BOTTOM. probably 30 minutes each would be A good idea for the, because if we're trying to fit three updates in one meeting, I don't think 20 minutes is enough. I think that feels really rushed to have just 20 minutes to get an update and be able to ask questions to our elected leaders in the county. And my second point is for the April and August rotational schedule, we have the appointed directors, but we talked, Commissioner Mejia threw out a suggestion about having the appointed directors rotate during the planning session. So I was just curious how that would work if we incorporated Commissioner Mejia's idea and had directors come during that planning session, what would that look like?

What I think an application of Commissioner Mejia's idea is there's often times that departments need to brief the board on larger topics. So I think we would keep the rotation for the appointments because there's a lot of good team building that takes place in those times. And then for the planning sessions, sometimes there's annual things that departments need to update the board we can build that schedule in which just gives a lot more time for you to unpackage it we tend to put those in board work sessions anyways but just gives an opportunity for the board to revisit more dense topics it could be something in environmental health or It could be something in public works. It could be something Patrick wants to come and talk about in the trend. So those, I like Commissioner Mejia's ideas because it gives a lot more focused time for them to talk about operational specific things that could drive a legislative priority. It could drive an idea for a new program, et cetera.

Thank you, County Manager.

That was my recommendation. So yeah, my suggestion would be bumping the, 20-minute presentations with the electeds to 30 minutes.

I'm good with that. I think that makes sense. It's always...

They typically talk as long as they need regardless.

It doesn't ever stay to an hour, so we might as well reflect the reality.

They only got five minutes that they want to take up. And it's good.

I mean, those are good.

Check-ins. With that, I think we'll move forward with adding this to the next business

Thank you. Okay, so now we have three executive sessions.

There is also the special amendment three.

Oh, I'm sorry. I went right past it. Oh, I jumped over that last item. Okay. I went from the advisory boards to the meeting schedule. Okay, let's do item four, 26-27, biennial budget special amendment three, first and final preliminary review. And Summer is here to go.

Good morning, Senator.

Happy Tuesday.

Thank you.

Okay, so this is our Special Amendment 3, primarily to make a technical correction and to account for revenue and expenditures that are now identified but were unknown to the county at the time of the original 2026-2027 biennial budget adoption. So we will continue on. I'm Summer Miller, sorry, budget and finance manager in your office. Sorry, what's your name? Summer Michelle Miller, M-A-C-H-E-L-L-E. Thank you. Okay, so RCW 3640-100, 3640-140, 3640-195 provide authority for the Board of County Commissioners to amend the county budget during the fiscal year, and this includes the supplemental appropriations because of unanticipated receipts. And for transfers or revisions within departments, you see this slide a lot. There will be a test at the end of the year. Okay, next slide. So this is our special budget amendment three or budget amendment, special amendment three, and it is corrections supplemental appropriations to the 2026. 2027 biennial operating budget, specifically for medic one and emergency management. This will be your first and final review. We have already submitted a public notification through the newspaper of choice. I believe I received that confirmation on Friday. Thank you so much. And the three corrections are a medic one pre-hospital opioid response, revenue backed appropriation or expenditure authority, There is a MEDIC-1 ER&R technical correction. When the budget was adopted, it was adopted under Emergency Management Department 350. It should have been MEDIC-1 Department 340. And then there is an Emergency Management City of Olympia ILA, which is revenue-backed general fund appropriations as well. And all of these are coming to you now because there is an urgency for board approval so that Ben and his team can SPEND THE MONEY DOWN AND RECEIVE THE GOODS IN HAND PRIOR TO THE END OF THE YEAR. SO AGAIN, THE TIMELINE FOR SPECIAL AMENDMENT 3 IS TODAY, SEPTEMBER 8TH, FIRST AND FINAL REVIEW. SEPTEMBER 10TH, WHICH IS IN TWO DAYS, THE PUBLIC NOTICE OF INTENT TO AMEND THE BUDGET BEGINS FOR TWO ADDITIONAL WEEKS. THAT WILL BE POSTED ON THE 10TH, THE 17TH, AND I BELIEVE THE 24TH. SEPTEMBER 29TH, YOU WILL SEE ME AGAIN. to present the resolution to adopt the special amendment three. And please keep in mind that no additional changes to the budget can be made once this public notice period begins on Thursday. And our final step is requesting the board to please move to direct staff to proceed with this noticing and amendment three as presented. And that's all I have. Happy to answer any questions if you have them.

We need a motion then, is that understood?

Yes, sir, I believe that. I move to direct staff to proceed with noticing the 2026-2027 biennial budget, special amendment three as presented.

I'll second. Motion and second to direct staff to the noticing the amendment and discussion on the motion. Okay, call for the vote. Wonderful.

Have a wonderful start to your week, and we will see you again soon. Thank you.

Okay, now we have, yeah, let's take, let's take until 1030, and then we'll pick up with our executive sessions. Okay. And I can talk to the county manager for a moment about the ordering.

Yep.

Recording stopped.

Recording in progress.

Okay, it's 1032. We are back from recess, and we're picking up with item six, which is an executive session pursuant to RCW 4230-1101C to consider minimum price at which real estate will be offered for sale or lease when public knowledge regarding such consideration would cause a likelihood of decreased price. However, final action, selling or leasing public property shall be taken in a meeting open to the public. 20 minutes. Let's say 15. 15? and we can always extend. Yeah. Okay, yeah, because we have three items, and I have to be out the door.

Recording in progress.

Okay, thank you. We have completed the executive session under item 6. We're going to now do item 7 and 8, which are executive sessions under the same statutory subsection, RCW 4230-1101I. We'll be in executive session for 40 minutes, and then that'll be extended if needed. Let me go through the subsection. It's to discuss with legal counsel representing the agency matters relating to agency enforcement actions or to discuss with legal counsel representing the agency litigation or potential litigation to which the agency governing body or a member acting in an official capacity is or is likely to become a party when public knowledge regarding the discussion is likely to result in an adverse legal or financial consequence to the agency. So it's 1053. We'll be here till at least 1054, so that's 1034, 1134, is that right? Okay, so it'd be an extension at 1134 if needed, otherwise we'll be in executive session under those two topics until 1134.