City Council - Regular Meeting

Please do the call of the roll.

Dan Richardson.

Present.

Bill Amory.

Present.

Fred Ring.

Present.

Scott Hagee.

I'm here.

Marcus Swift is absent. Walter Denstead.

Here.

Ed Stelzer. Present. And Timothy McLaughlin is absent. And Kristen Liljevic. Present.

Very good. I'm going to ask those present to stand who are able for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Number three is the approval of the agenda. I'm going to propose that we move agenda items 7a and b up before discussion tonight so that we can get some business accomplished and let people be on their way and have our discussion without them having to wait for that. If that's acceptable, I would Ask if there's any other changes and then entertain a motion.

You have one change in front of you and that is adding agenda item 7C.

Thank you.

Which would be the IPGA reinstatement and extension request for the dowsment.

Very good. Are there any comments or is everybody okay with moving 7 up tonight and doing the action items a little bit? Before discussion? It's fine with me. All right. Can I have a motion from somebody?

I move to approve the agendas changes proposed.

Very good. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Chair votes aye. Any opposed? Agenda's approved. Item four is approval of the minutes. Thank you for the preparation of the minutes. For those who had time to read through, are there any edits or comments?

I'm ready to approve them as presented. Very good. Is that a motion? Yes.

Very good. I hear a motion for the minutes. I hear a second. Any discussion? Going once, going twice. Very good. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Chair votes aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Hearing none, we have approval. Item five is public comment. Is there anybody here that wishes to address the board for up to five minutes on a matter of urban renewal that is not on the agenda? Going once, twice. item seven a b and c will be considered now in order seven a is the ratification and phase two grant agreement with the gma properties for 210 washington street mr henderson take it away thank you chair this is jacob anderson uh agency manager you have before you action item 7a

which is the ratification of the Jumei Properties 210 Washington first grant agreement, which was entered into in error according to technicality. When we updated our guidelines for the IPGA program, When I was drafting it, I inserted the word property owner erroneously. And what that did is it required that when you go over $50,000 as any owner, it could be on one property or it could be on multiple properties, you would then have to come in front of the board for any modifications or any new grant agreements after that where up to fifty thousand dollars previously for any one property I could do administratively and so I'd manage this grant administratively and then when they came in for phase two we found out that they were over the fifty thousand dollars total for the the owners. And so what you have before you is the ratification of the first grant agreement, which was for $3,426 of match. So that's what we actually paid out. And the, you also have the phase two grant agreement and the same part of the same motion, which is for $9,730 for phase two. which with the total cost of $19,460. I will state that the GMAs do their grant agreements a little differently than most other people. Most other people would come in and do a grant agreement for the whole project that might take 180 days or it might take a year and then they have to come in for extensions. They kind of bootstrap it through when they get the money to do the next project or it comes up. That's when they come in and apply for it. It's a little bit more work on our end administratively, but it's something we've been absolutely willing to do and happy to do it because they're using the program and doing what they need to do, and it works really well. Are there any questions from the board? It's pretty simple. It's administratively.

looks to my eye as a housekeeping item to sort of shuffle some paper and make sure we're on the right side of the, um, of the paperwork. Um, but we should give ourselves good chance to ask any clarifying questions or raise any concerns. Uh, board members, Amory and Lilvic online. If you have any, please, um, Signify by saying so or turning on your audio. Anyone here at the dais have questions of Jake, Mr. Anderson, on this matter?

Is it clear to everybody what we're doing? I think so. I'm kind of anticipating perhaps some other outfits that thought they were done getting money from us. Because they're maxed out, might discover that if they just put in a request and the board approves it, they might be able to get some more money. Not just these guys.

So this agenda item is only for these guys. The next agenda item would then cover everyone.

Okay.

But either way, when there were some people that had came in and nearly maxed out the amount that they had when it used to be 50,000, when we updated the guidelines to 300,000, those same people could have came in at any time. They couldn't have asked for money for work that's already been done. They could ask for new money to do new construction.

My question really should have been on the next agenda item.

We'll get there in a second.

Yeah.

I want to give plenty of time to consider and ask questions, but also not belabor it. Board members, do you have questions to clarify your understanding or raise concerns on this? Hearing none, what's the board's pleasure? Is there someone that's interested in making a motion on this item? This would be on page three of the supplemental packet.

I would move to adopt the attached resolution ratifying the original phase one award and the agreement and approving a separate phase two grant of up to $9,730 to GUME properties for 210 Washington as presented. I'll second.

Motion and second to adopt the staff recommendation. Any further discussion? I see Lindsey G. Mays here. Are there any questions for her? Hearing none, let's have a vote. All those in favor of the motion on the floor signify by saying aye. Aye. Chair votes aye. Are there any in opposition or who wish to abstain? Motion passes unanimously. I hope your project continues to be successful. That was item 7A, 7B. to you, Mr. Henderson.

Sure. Just finishing up 7a, I would definitely like to say thank you to Jonathan Carr, our attorney, for catching this. It's great to have someone who's always looking over your shoulder and making sure that we're doing things appropriate and right and covering. So thank you very much. I'd also like to say thank you to the Jumeis who are buying properties downtown and rehabilitating them. This is what this is all about, this program. We are helping to beautify the downtown and to bring it up to modern standards and codes. And this is the third building, I believe, that they've done this to. And that just shows that there is belief in downtown and that people are willing to invest downtown and invest. continue to improve the community. With that, I will move on to agenda item 7B, which is resolution number 26-005, a resolution amending the Columbia Gateway Urban Renewal Agency Incentive Program Guidelines. And it's a lot of pages for a very simple clerical fix of just about one word. The proposed amendment would revise the applicable provision to read when a property's cumulative total program support, including the proposed award or increase, would exceed $50,000. That award or increase requires board approval. What this does is this goes back to our prior to May 2021. five language on almost exactly and so what it does is it treats into each property individually that up to fifty thousand dollars i can enter into the grant agreements without having to bring it in uh to the board anything over fifty thousand dollars up to three hundred thousand dollars the board of course it needs to come before you and for your agreement anything over a hundred thousand dollars still requires the community benefit statement and um and what it does is it takes us back to looking at each property individually because what would happen is say the jamae's got fifty thousand dollars um of grant agreement and then they sold the building That next person could come in and apply and they wanted to say, work on the third floor, the second floor, something else. The money, in essence, in the project stays with the property, not with the property owner.

We're willing to invest up to certain amounts in a given property. Precisely. But not every time it changes hands necessarily. Right. It also means that property owners with multiple properties and capital and ambitions and whatnot can do multiple projects.

And they are on a level playing field, each property.

What does the board think of that? Are we okay with essentially going back to the future and getting our guidelines focused on properties very clearly rather than on owners? That kind of makes sense. Are there questions for Mr. Anderson about this change or vision? I'm guessing from the thundering silence that we are all in approval, but we do need a motion from somebody. That's on packet page 35 of the supplemental. Is there anybody that feels moved to give us a recommendation or a motion rather?

I would move to adopt URA resolution number 25-005, a resolution amending the Urban Renewal Incentive Program guidelines effective September 16th, 2026 as presented.

That would be resolution 26-005. As I read it, is there a second to that?

I would second.

Thank you. That is Ms. Amory. Are there further concerns, questions, or discussion on this item? I'm good with it. It's sort of a Big impact, small revision, big impact. But in my opinion, totally in keeping with what we're trying to do, which is get physical buildings, physical infrastructure, fresh, updated up to code and activated. So I'm pleased with that change. Any other comments?

I would make a quick one chair. I just think that we're, we're sort of hamstringing if there's a current owner that wants to do more than one property, the way it currently is. So I think it's really logical to do this. I think it's a great catch and I appreciate making the change.

Thank you, Jill. Any other comments, questions? Seeing none, I will call the vote. All those in favor of the motion on the floor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Chair votes aye. Are there any in opposition or abstention? Hearing none, motion passes unanimously. Item 7C, Mr. Henderson.

Thank you, Chair. Agenda item 7C, the IPGA reinstatement and extension request for the Dow's Mint. On September 24th, 2025, the agency entered into an incentive agreement with the Dow's Mint for improvements on the property at 710 East 2nd. The agreement provides for the redevelopment grant for $63,456, and that's just our portion, so the grand total is $126,913, for eligible improvements including commercial kitchen, second floor apartment, front patio, cellular, HVAC, and a pair of pit work. The grant agreement required that the project be completed within 180 days of execution unless the completion period is extended by the agency at its sole discretion. Due to health issues, the owner of the Dells Mint has requested additional time to complete the remaining project improvements. um it is staff recommendation that the board consider these this extension due to these uh the health issues and extend the project deadline to december 16 2026 and so it's not just in an extension it's also a reinstatement because that 180 days had expired questions from the board for mr anderson

What's the total cost again?

Total cost for the project is $126,913. Total cost to the board is $63,456. This is still within our budget. It is money that we had allocated. It's just the time extension needed to be extended.

Is it enough time?

Yeah, that was my question. The owner of the Dow's Mint is here, and hopefully he can answer that. But he told me that it would be, I think 60 days would be plenty, correct? And so I gave him a little extra on top of that.

Let the record reflect, there was a nod of the head that that was acceptable. You are welcome to address, but you certainly don't need to say anything else if you don't want, Mr. Schlechtel. Any other, thank you, that was my question as well.

Any other questions that we would like to ask? I'm not opposed to what we're about to do, but this is the building that I recall has an apartment in it. Most of the building has fire suppression system in it, but the apartment does not. And that's a huge concern of mine.

Would you like to address that?

No.

Hello.

uh... commissioner instead he did have a discussion about this very issue he had engineers design the system uh... after a survey of the entire building we have to areas where are protected by over to our firewall and fire doors complete separation The apartment happens to be in one of those areas, and then the other area is a computer room. So there are stub outs for future expansion of the system, but it kept the price where we can basically afford it, and it was not required by code.

Yeah, I realize it's not required by code. And I guess I could lecture you on some things. I fully understand that. So, and I think what you're doing is sticking with your original request to do the things that were the priority to you. I just, and I can't say that if you would have made this extension, an extension plus additional monies, and I wouldn't suspect that you would have the money for half of the um, additional fire suppression. And that seems to be what holds people up is we don't pay for the entire amount of a fire suppression system. We just pay for half. But, um, the, uh, you know, I would be desirable if the codes were different than they are, but I think the lecturing I would do is the chances of the fire starting in an occupied area, I think is greater. And I just want the whole world to know that's the thing is it's a lived in area just happens to be, you know, there's cooking going on and other things that, um, And I'm glad that most of your buildings are going to have a fire suppression system in it. It just kind of boggles my mind that the most important area of that building, the residential portion, isn't going to have it. And hopefully in the future, there'll be some way to do that.

Well, according to what you just discussed prior to this, the board approved this phase one project. And I think when we were working to get the grant, get urban renewal on board with us, we had enough capital to put in to complete the amount of work at this time. the building still has potential money committed to it but we have to get our share back in order to develop that further which hopefully we will be able to do that hopefully if you get some more money available to you i'd be glad to

approve additional monies for the building if it involved fire suppression, but that's not what's before us right now. What's before us right now is an extension. Thank you very much.

One more question. When did the original IGA with the dowsment, has it already expired?

Yes, it expired on March 23rd, 2026.

Are we allowed to extend it past its expiration date or do we have to sign a new agreement?

That is why it is for the motion would be a reinstatement and extension.

Got it. Okay. Through December 16th.

Through December 16th.

Okay.

Thanks. And I would also add that throughout the course of the project, I've been on property multiple times and reviewed the work and everything done. And I believe we've issued two payments so far. And I think there's probably one left that's going to happen. But work stopped for quite a few months.

Are you confident, Mr. Schechtel, that we can reinstate and kind of wrap this one up? Do you feel confident in that?

Yes. I've been recovering from my issue for two and a half months after treatment. Very good. Thank you.

Further thoughts, questions? Are we comfortable with the reinstatement and extension?

Sure. I'll move to approve the reinstatement and extension of the Dallas Mint Incentive Grant.

agreement through december 16 2026 and authorized the agency manager to execute the necessary amendment to the grant agreement i'll second the motion further discussion on the matter on the motion before us hearing none seeing none i will call the vote all those in favor of the motion please say aye aye aye Chair votes aye. Any opposed or willing or rather wishing to abstain? Hearing not, we have passed the motion unanimously with our goodwill and hope for a successful conclusion. Also that things continue to look up for you. 7C concluded. That would put us into item 6A, discussion of the federal street plaza project is really sort of that whole neighborhood right yeah all right lead us lead us into this the thickets of this discussion mr anderson

Thank you, Chair. You have in front of you 73 pages of work that was completed by the University of Oregon Sustainable City Year Program. And what that was is the culmination of three different classes working separately but also in concert to look at our Federal Street Plaza area district, as you might call it. about what we can do to activate that plaza as well as the transportation building, the Craig Building, as well as Tony's Lot to help us in the discussion of what we want to do at the Tony's Lot. Because I don't think what we want to see is we don't want to see something done at the Craig Building and have the exact same thing done at Tony's Lot and have two things that are either in competition or not in concert with one another. on top of, as well, the plaza that we're investing significant public dollars into. And so I hope everyone's had a chance to review the final of what the students had come up with. And then after their presentations, what happened is it was supposed to be three students, but it really ended up being one student, brought it all together into this final report that's in front of you to help spur the conversation about what we want to do. Um, I guess a couple of, of directions that we can go from here. Um, I thought it would be good, um, since everyone's had a chance to review and digest it is to open up conversation about number one, what did you think of the report? And were there any nuggets in there that really got you excited or things that made you think, um, that'll help us lead the discussion about Tony's lot? Um, because if there's something that, that you see with the transportation building or Craig building, um, that might help guide us where we go on the Tony's lot. But if there was anything that somebody came up with that they're like, I really like this idea. And it could be on Tony's lot or any of them. I know it was it was a really fun experience working with the students to to see from their perspective and not only their perspective, but all the communities that they come from, from around Oregon and the state where they bring their own downtown areas and thoughts and then watching them grow. debate which projects they're going to put forth or they're going to push forward. They came up with six different ideas for Tony's lot, but there were probably 20 or 30 when they first started and having the discussions.

So this is a sort of multifaceted conversation, and I'm going to try and work us through it in a somewhat stepwise fashion, but starting by just opening the floor to ourselves, to everybody here, just to give initial thoughts, if any. whether about specific projects or sort of major questions you feel we need to wrestle with. And then I will throw in a few and we'll go to sort of a step two and see if we can get some forward momentum on thinking about what I'm going to call the plaza district. I kind of like the sound of that. Opening it to the board, opening the floor, do you guys have thoughts on the presentation on the ideas in the presentations, um, how they work together or specific pieces, just throwing it wide open. Um, I can call one by one or I can just sort of let, let people speak as the spirit moves.

I like some of the things that they put together. I w I was curious, I was, um, Kind of taken back a little bit that the survey results sort of indicate that it's split between having a building and not. That was that was pretty interesting. And I think for me i'm like it's a head scratcher for me on some of the recommendations that they put together because. If you look at the way that they put together the categories or whatnot on page 59 or page 66 to 73 of the packet, the number one thing that came up with a not so far away was like both of the top two don't include any sort of like building or construction, which is interesting, but I also don't know how to tie that into the plaza, right? Like the first one is a park slash plaza slash public square, and we're already building that, but it's not included in the Tony's property. So like if we did decide to go that route, I'm not sure what that looks like yet. You know, like financially, how do we pull the money together to do it? I mean, we have the money, but I don't know. It's just food for, it's like, I'm trying to like think about each of these, like pragmatically. If we did, if we did number one, then, or number two, like those are, those both involve some construction and, but it doesn't involve an outside entity coming in and like building a brick and mortar structure. So whereas number three is like residential and housing and then retail commercial, you know, it, that part is like, I don't know.

Yeah.

It's a head scratcher to how do we connect it to the plaza after the fact versus like going and finding out if there's still people that want to develop something. And I don't know.

So I can tell you that the survey results, 53% showed public use and 42% showed private use of the property. So it was fairly split evenly about what to do with the project. Things that I've been trying to take into consideration is... What is our available retail space currently downtown, and do we have an excess of it? Because anything that gets built on there is going to require that first floor to have commercial space on it. And if we currently have an abundance of commercial space, is that going to continue to drive down prices, rent prices, because of supply and demand? So that's one of my concerns, especially if you have something like the Basalt Commons getting built that's going to have that first floor commercial space that's a lot of square feet, you know, close to 10,000 square feet. So how that pencils into it as well. But I don't want to take over. I've just been thinking about the same questions.

I do think that a large part of those surveyed were suggesting what we are doing with the plaza before the plans for the plaza were widely known. So I think that we have fulfilled those desires that the community were expressing. At the end of the day, this is a downtown and the most value downtown is having a building there. I would definitely recommend lean that direction. I love the idea of Something that I have seen work very well next to plazas, be that bigger cities or Bend, is the more artisan market or multi-use building that can have overflow for food, et cetera, into the plaza. I've seen that really... really wake up spaces like that so I did like that proposal like the they had a couple of options like that where it's not like a high rise structure but it's more multi-use I just double checked the plaza construction can go forward without us

knowing what we're going to do with Tony's lot, correct?

It is going forward right now. Their contractors were there doing rebar today.

And so, you know, I think trying to put together an idea now is great, but it could be as it takes shape and everything that people would have a little bit better idea. But, I mean, you have to – If you're going to sell a property to somebody, you're going to have to consider they're going to want to make some money after they purchase a property. If we're not going to allow them to make any money, they're not going to buy the property and we're going to be stuck with it.

Oh, I definitely think we are pro-profit motive, right? I mean, we support people who have an entrepreneurial aspirations and are trying to make a go of it. I take your point, Betts, that a lot of the response asking for essentially plaza or plaza adjacent activities is like, yes, and we're doing that. And I also think that there were or I know from just anecdotally that there was sort of an open question for a while, whether the plaza would be federal street or federal street and the Tony's lot. And it's like, we've answered that question. We are going forward. We are building the plaza, uh, and we still have the Tony's lot. So it's like, do we, uh, do we amplify that sense of park or plaza or open space? Um, I also kind of get the sense that the, and I appreciate the spirit of, um, college kids that are like food and drink and fun times. I'm like, I'm all for that. That's good stuff. Yes. And I do wonder if we need to be the ones to really seriously consider that as one thematic approach, whether we go with whatever you want to call that public activity for lack of a a building, a single large enterprise. So that might be a significant question for us to be thinking about as we navigate through various options. And along those lines, I don't want to speak out of turn, but it occurs to me that one of the needs for the community has been childcare. And I know the college has been exploring that. I wonder if that's a ground floor, you know, option for a ground floor space in a building is a childcare next to the plaza. Because if I understand right, childcare facilities have to have outdoor space. It's like, well, here you go at a plaza. So that might be something to have a conversation about. It doesn't have to necessarily be retail, does it?

Nope, it does not have to be retail. It can be service sector. It can be childcare. You know, it could be whatever still fits within the zoning code for downtown, which is allowable uses. You just can't have residential on the first floor.

So would you... Do you think that's helpful to think of essentially a fork in the path, whether we go for looking for somebody that has building a big building in mind and putting out an RFQ or seeking folks with capital or else going for some sort of public activity space? Is that a fair question?

Well, that is the question. I know we didn't hear from everybody, but the fork in the road is, do we focus on Tony's Lot as a downtown public activation setting, or do we choose to attract private investment and see what the market is interested in bearing downtown? We know how difficult it is to do new construction downtown. We've seen it both with the Salt Commons project, but we've also seen it with the previous attempt at Tony's Lot and the cost of construction and how difficult that tries to pencil out. We also know that if you do put it out for the private sector, as Walter was stating, they're probably not going to want to pay anything for the land. And then they're also going to want to maximize a DFA and you're probably going to be into it, you know, $750,000 on top of whatever that is, just because the cost of construction is so astronomical right now. Another part of that conversation that keeps coming up that the students brought up multiple times is, do you want to build a two or five story building right next to the plaza right after you open the plaza? Is that what you want to do is open your plaza and then have heavy construction going on right thereafter? Or do you want some time later? for the plaza to turn into that living space and then start into construction later that was something that they brought up multiple classes brought up multiple classes had concerns with that you know because we keep talking about it being the living room and do you want to see heavy construction right next to the living room or do you want to see like an interim stage where the plaza might be used tony's lot might be used for something low impact it's it's more affordable for um, the agency to handle, but also helps to activate the plaza.

What kind of timeframe would you think, uh, we'd be looking at like, like basically wait a year, a year to two years. So two, two real big questions to help frame our discussion. But again, we haven't, I'd like to hear thoughts from other, other people's thoughts, uh, At what other scale that might be, but two big questions and maybe one more thing before I go back to sort of pulling the board. Would you tell us very briefly and generally what the status is of the transportation building discussions?

So the transportation building, the Veterans Museum is going to go take up about 75% of that building. The side facing the plaza was originally going to be the Main Street office. And that was where and they were going to be hopefully contracted to activate the plaza and manage the plaza and Since that time, Main Street is kind of taking a step back with their board, and they don't have a hired executive director, and currently they have no plans to do that, which then opened up the transportation, that 280 square feet in the transportation building for other options. And so that was part of what the students looked at. And some of their ideas became, you know, do we use that as maybe an extension of the bike hub so that you could do like e-bike rentals out of that section with a little bit of, you know, tourist area or something. One idea that came out of Italy that was really well received by the college students was a wine window, which would require some changes to your codes, but it's something that you could go up to the window and order wine and then sit there and watch the kids in the fountain and hang out in the plaza. Um, with that, you know, it could be a coffee window or an ice cream window or something else as well. But the idea would be, is this something that really brings people in to activate the plaza? And we do have some interest from a local business who is interested in having a little satellite office that could help activate the plaza and bring drive traffic to the plaza right now, but it's not really ready for prime time at this time, but I can't wait to talk about it soon.

So activity, commercial activity.

Some sort of commercial. The primary purpose of the building would still be nonprofit, government agency style, but there would be a small section that could be used to help activate the plaza that could have that potentially private nexus.

I think that's really interesting. Transportation building.

In that 280 square feet.

I feel like that's something that both on this committee and the plaza committee, we have been waiting to hear whether or not legally that building can be used for private. And that does make a very big difference. And I didn't know if we had an answer on that yet. Is it that it needs to be primarily used for a nonprofit? And then if the minority is used for private, that's possible or say the veterans museum,

had another home someday could it be used and rented out for private use that is exactly why i said it's not ready for prime time yet we're exploring the parameters we're exploring the parameters of what is allowed um with the idea that the the goal is is to activate the plaza so i i think that um the development of the tony's lot is going to be it it

by the time we get through, if we decided to do some like partner with somebody to develop a new structure of some kind, not necessarily like a two or five story building, but, even something simple at a single story would be like, I don't see that construction happening or starting until 2028. So there's your year, right? Like just realistically, it ain't going to happen next year. So I think I, I recognize that having that, you know, gap or whatever to introduce the Plaza area and all that to the community is, is not a bad idea, but at the same time, like, long-term goals and big picture. I don't want to like limit. I don't, I feel part of me feels like we're sort of, it's like a plan B to turn the thing into like an extension of the Plaza or a park or some like public space. And I would like, that's going to cost us money too. Right. It's maybe it doesn't cost us like half a million or 700,000 or whatever, but it's going to cost something. So we're going to spend more money on that property at some point regardless. And I'd rather see that with a commercial entity that brings something back into the game, right? Like I would love to see us put out not an RFEI, like I just like full bore, like what do people want to do with this? Does anyone want to do anything with it? Because people did want to do something with it. When we put out the RFEI responses, I thought were pretty great. And I'd love to see if we could make something like that happen. But that's just my personal opinion.

I am curious if more information was, you know, attained from the work of the intern you had this summer, et cetera, around the needs of downtown. I mean, it is all. a puzzle that works together in order to support commercial, you have to have residential, but also if you flood the residential market, then you're going to be, we're going to be a pain in the neck for someone like Mary. Also, you know, you have to have folks that live downtown to support any kind of nightlife. It really does all work together and needs to be a balance. And I don't know if we got more information.

So the intern, Evan, did a wonderful job with his report and I hope everyone had a chance to review it. The students, the University of Oregon students relied heavily on his report and it made him ecstatic to see that his report was cited right after he graduated. He sent it to everyone he knows. And I can tell you that that report said one thing, downtown needs entertainment. And that is what's lacking. We do not have enough entertainment businesses. And it is an ecosystem. And that is what is missing in that ecosystem. And I think that is probably why you saw so many of the Tony's Lot ideas revolve around entertainment. Whether it be a two-story bar and restaurant with music venue on the second floor or in the Craig's building having a roller skating rink or a bowling alley or something to help activate downtown through entertainment because that's what's missing. And I think that's probably the big driver of what you saw for the results.

Let me ask our board members online, Jill and Kristen, do you wish to share any thoughts or questions at this point? Specifically, Tony's Lot and the Plaza District.

Yeah, sure. I'm happy to share. I think my camera is terrible. I'll turn that back off. I do think we've checked the box with Federal Street Plaza and sort of that gathering space. I'm really anxious to pull the trigger on Basalt Commons. I think that will change some things and some demand downtown. I am, I think, probably most curious, is there a developer or multiple developers out there who have a vision for the Tony's lot? I would really like to know that. I know it is a very curious time to try and build and develop, but is there someone out there who has a great vision that would work really well? I was really saddened to see the sign out in front of the Craig building. We'll see what happens with that because that's an unknown factor at this time. And I think, you know, bordering the plaza, I think is also going to be an important piece. So I still have several questions, but I am really intrigued by getting the word out and having a developer share any kind of vision for Tony's.

Well, the Tony's lot, to me, if the group has some stipulations, it would say to the potential buyer, must have this, this, and this. I don't know how you'd stipulate entertainment factor. You would absolutely want to say the bottom floor has to be some kind of business, not residential property. see if you can get buyers interested with those stipulations in place. And we're kind of giving the plazas some time to get people used to it and all that. So if it didn't sell right away, that'd be no big deal. But I would, me, if I was trying to sell a piece of property and I had some stipulations, I'd be prepared to start dropping those stipulations until I could sell the thing. Just practical.

I take your point, Walt, and, uh, and I forgot who raised this. Maybe it was Betts. Forgive me, but, um, the, uh, the moving forward, uh, basalt commons or not is a big missing piece of this puzzle, right? If that doesn't happen, then I, for one would really lean into, um, having conversation about recruiting or finding a residential development. Um, and I know that's that's imminent that the basalt commons project resolution is soon as I understand it what what's your thought Mr. Anderson with response to some of the board members all right hold that hold that thought for a minute Kristen has her hand up yes please Kristen

Thanks, guys. I hope you can hear me okay. I'm on a pair of headphones and my camera is not working. Yes, we can hear you just fine. Perfect. Thank you. I also agree that I think seeing what happens with the Salt Commons and the resolution of that project is going to be really important. I think that what the college student presented was pretty cool. I think the new ideas are great and maybe that's something that we can give to people who are interested in actually putting money towards the project on the Tony's lot. I don't know that that's necessarily our choice. If we want to sell that piece of property, I think we need to see what people that are willing to invest capital are willing to do there. That's just my personal opinion about that. And then I did also want to just kind of mention that if we are considering allowing a commercial business to go into a space that we have said is just for a nonprofit. At this point, that needs to be an open process where not just a single business is considered for that space. It needs to be open for people to potentially say, this is my idea for this space and this is what I would do here, as opposed to looking like something that we're handing a commercial business prime real estate. That's just my opinion there.

I think she means transportation building.

Yep, transportation building for that one. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm curious what you think, Jake, about the idea of I guess speaking for the board or in summary of moving forward with like some sort of RFP process, recognizing that we may not want heavy construction right next to the Plaza, but that's unlikely to happen regardless of what we want to see there. It's unlikely to happen. I don't know, within the year, within the first several months anyway of the plaza?

Entitlement processes take time. Yeah. And I guess what I'm hearing a little bit is we want to see what's happening with Mary's project. We want to see where Basalt Commons goes, because just like if there were ideas coming out of the Craig Building, that might change our direction. The Craig Building right now is... is up in the air. It's currently for sale. Um, the, the owners are, you know, looking to do something with it cause it's not doing anything sitting there empty and the remodeling cost on it is, is very high, um, for whatever use that could be there. Um, one thing I would say is, is that, um, we're doing the first street project and so first streets pretty well tore up and big holes in the ground and we're having, you know, like, um, The moat around the Baldwin Saloon and you know you look at your downtown right now and we're in a phase of investment and sometimes that's the best time to be in the construction and do it all at once so that when everything opens up you're all set and ready to go. From an ownership perspective, though, I look at it as I love, see, if I was the owner of the Craig's building, I'd be ecstatic that you're investing $5 million out my back door because that only makes my property worth more money. Same thing with the Tony's lot is that when people see the completed plaza project, that by itself is going to add value to the Tony's lot. Whether it's value in terms of financial value of the lot or whether it's in terms of the ideas that people want to bring forward for their own RFPs. There will be an increase in that perceived value of that parcel of land, especially if we're focusing on that district as the heart of town. Right now, if you put it out there on the market and said, hey, I just want to put it up for sale, who knows, you might get $50,000 to $100,000 out of it. You don't know. And then you would give up all ability for control over that. When we were in the RFEI discussions and we were coming out of that, some of the ideas was in order to extend the amount of money that we have, could we, we being the agency, hold ownership of the building for, say, seven years. And then at that point, it could revert over to the owners if they're continuing to add value like what we wanted to see. And then you could put more money into the actual project because the cost of construction is just so high. If we have to subtract the value of of the land out of what that 750,000 we can give that limits what you can do in terms of construction. It kind of follows the same, same but different tact is what the salt commons was looking to do with, um, the County in terms of, you know, the County, uh, owning the underlying land so that they had the cash on hand to, to finish the project. You know, um, it's easy to come up with dreams and ideas on what to do with a downtown lot and, It's a whole different ballgame when when reality hits the road and you're looking at interest rates that are at, you know, generational highs currently and you're looking at having to, you know, have a construction season. And on top of that, your entitlement time and everything else, you know, there's a there's a lot of. a lot of risk involved with that when you bring someone in. And if they don't have a lot of capital on their own and they're trying to use 7% to 11% interest to build something, they've got to be building something that I guarantee is likely not going to be entertainment based because unless it's something new that I don't know about, there's not a high margin in there to pay that kind of interest rates, right? Um, so these are just like the, the things that we have to take into consideration when, when you guys are setting the policy in the direction of where to go. You know, I haven't been in a, in a big hurry, um, to try to get an RF, uh, an RFP on the street because like you, I want to know what's happening with the salt commons. We are seeing change downtown though. I think hopefully everybody saw the, uh, um, the Facebook posts about the discounts plus building is, has just recently changed hands. The, uh, uh we were involved with the brownfields program um and that was the hold up on that changing hands for a while was trying to get the environmental issue cleaned up out in the in the alley but that that is now going to be a a gym that's that's a series of gyms throughout the northwest that's owned by a young young man who grew up in glenwood and now he has gyms all over So you're going to see some change downtown because if you go around town and you say, what's the busiest place in town? It's the gym at five o'clock at night. I can tell you that every day. So having a gym downtown that has available parking and everything else, I think it's going to be a boon to downtown. If you look at the Basalt Commons project and it gets built and there's a gym right next door, plus a really nice good food right next to that for your groceries, you're now creating a livable, walkable community. And you add on top of that a nice plaza that you can enjoy. Tony's Lot continues to get more and more valuable as you add more people. And so I think we're in a really good spot in front of you.

Does the fact that I guess this is a question for one and all, since we have folks here who have developed projects with quite a lot of perspective and experience, which I appreciate. So question for all of you. Does the fact that we hope and expect that Tony's lot of value to increase in the coming years, does that. compel us to move more swiftly on putting out an RFP so that a potential project or development there would be more affordable? Or is it just that it makes it more attractive to a potential developer in time?

I mean, there's a lot of reading of tea leaves. Right now I can tell you I wouldn't be building. I would be waiting for a downturn before I entered into a heavy construction project personally. Cost of construction is just so high. But that's me personally. I'm sure everybody here has their own takes on where things are going, right? We can always put it out there.

So we're not looking for a motion or things of that order tonight, but we are looking for substantive discussion that we are having to try and see if the board has a sense of direction. If we have some direction for staff, if we want to cogitate some more on this, I think there's a number of board members who are I think it's fair to say, anxious to see us move forward with development on that site. I'm not speaking for anyone in particular, but I've heard that sentiment tonight and previously. Other thoughts from people about where we are and where we ought to be going with the Tony's Lot and the Plaza District generally?

I think that we should be moving to activate the Tony's lot as soon as possible. And whether or not we get a private commercial proposal that we like, which seems like is the board's plan A, we can still activate the Tony's lot throughout the next couple of years should we choose to. There was... The urban renewal agency in Redmond had a lot that they sat on for several years and they purchased or rented a temporary skating rink that they funded. And the idea was it was within the scope because it was bringing people to the downtown. And that's obviously not a permanent thing and it didn't break the bank. But there are things that we could do like that, that the agency could fund that would activate the Tony slot.

Are you proposing course of action that we direct staff to come up with an interim A couple of options of activities to activate the lot while getting ready to put out an RFP in the next X number of months.

I do think even the best case scenario where we have a great commercial project, the soonest they would be doing something would be 2028. And a dead lot next to the plaza is every bit as bad as construction, in my opinion, or close to it. And so we should be proactive in activating it. I think absolutely anything that we chose to do to activate the Tony's lot seems to me within the purview of the Urban Renewal Agency.

Other thoughts on that? Speaking for myself, I agree with Ms. Stelter that we want to do both. We want to activate now, but also be looking for the seeking of proposals. in the near future, knowing that our Basalt Commons question will be answered also in the near future. So that'll drive maybe the particular flavor of RFP to some degree. I don't have myself brilliant ideas on how to best activate that. Maybe that would be a useful follow-up conversation. What do you guys think?

Seems like last meeting there was some mention of the Cherry Festival, and they were going to use it as they did before, food trucks and different things during the Cherry Festival. So, you know, we could expand on something like that. If what's needed is entertainment, I would suggest that try to find something temporary that's entertaining. I don't have an entertainment type in mind. But if that's what the college kids thought we really needed, that would be the direction forward.

Maybe a temporary entertainment thing there. You said an ice skating rink or something.

And that's one idea. There's maybe some other ones. I don't know. I really don't know what kind of entertainment people are looking for.

I think you're kind of making the point, like making their point is like, we need to, and I wonder, I do wonder if the gem fits within that. It's an activity. I don't know if it's entertainment. It could be social, a social scene as well. So I don't know, maybe it's adjacent to entertainment, but.

You did see that the college students were looking at the Craig Building as a potential skating rink. Another group was looking at it as the fake ice skating rinks. So you can have it be either or both. Staff has looked into a little bit like regulation size courts and what that would look like. And the cost, like putting in an actual ice skating rink is very cost prohibitive. But the synthetic ice skating rinks is actually not that expensive. And it is something that if we built it and then we wanted to move it somewhere else in the future, that's something that you could do. And then it may be a good segue into working with Parks and Rec because someone has to, if you put it in there, someone's going to have to manage it of some sort.

I wonder if what you're describing is a... An urban renewal. Underwritten or or you know assisted project for private owner, rather than us taking the building and. Trying to clarify, who would own the building under such a scenario?

It doesn't have to be a building. It can be an outdoor.

So not necessarily Craig's building. It could also be Tony's lot.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's on Tony's lot.

My mistake.

I was playing off of the activation. I was saying that they were looking at potentially one group was looking at the Craig building, but then other people were looking at Tony's lot the same way. And that's why it comes back to that idea. How do we think of this in terms of a district? We don't want the same thing on both of them. I've always looked at the Craig's building as it should be cheaper to remodel than to build new, and the Craig's building could be a really nice high-end restaurant. It could have many of the other ideas that the college students came up with, and how do you maximize that? Sadly, the cost of remodeling is sometimes more than the cost of building new because you've got fire suppression and everything else, and it's easier to do it the first time.

That's always the problem in these downtown areas.

Would it be feasible for you to bring us two to four ideas for activating the Tony slot over the next year, next month, next month or two?

I was going to say, how about two? so that I can flesh it out a little bit more. But it's something I've been looking at and thinking about the whole entire time I've been working with the college students. And so those are things that we've looked into, but I haven't put together a full proposal. I'd love to bring you the proposals that the college students came up with, but their numbers were woefully inadequate of the reality of the cost of doing anything.

How is the rest of the board with that idea? Sorry, how's the rest of that idea of directing staff to come back in two months with a plan to activate the Plaza i'm sorry strike that to activate the tony's lot with a temporary use over the next year or two. In our November meeting something for us to vote on and say yes let's go do that.

I would really appreciate that happening.

do you feel about that i think that would be fine i just want to make sure that i think that we need to be prepared for that to become the permanent solution so if we're going to activate it and turn it into some sort of like larger extension of the plaza then we need to deal with like ownership of the property and maintenance and things like that and even if we don't transfer it we still have to deal with the maintenance piece so how do we deal with that as an urban renewal agency and making sure that we're able to maintain whatever it is that we put in. Right. Cause we're going to, there's some development that's going to need to happen. So whether it's like walking paths or grass or a mix of whatever, like that in order to activate it, like that's the cost of doing business to make that happen. Cause right now it's a dirt lot with the fence and it's, So those are the things that are going through my mind. What's our operating costs? Who's going to own it? Who's going to maintain it? Is it the city? Is there another IGA with the Parks and Rec or something like that? Those are the things that are going through my mind. That's okay if that's what we decide, but we just need to all go in knowing that those things need to be put forth and figured out. arranged prior to making a decision. So, like, that's what I would ask. If we're going to ask staff to come back with recommendations, then if we activate the plaza as, like, a temporary structure, whether it's, like, the synthetic skating rink thing or grass or a mixed boat or whatever, like, please come with a plan for operation and maintenance for at least two to three years. That would be my ask.

Okay. I think your counsel is prudent, well-advised. I know that I was thinking about even just a grass lot and having a conversation with this earlier today. It's not that simple. It's like, does anyone with a lawn know? It's like, you don't just plant grass and walk away. So thank you very much. The emphasis on maintenance, I mean, ideally, in my opinion, somebody else would own it or strike that somebody else would operate and run it, not urban or new.

Well, and that's, you know, something that you see, like even the Marina that's owned by the port is still managed by a private company and a private individual. And that's something, if say it was a, you know, a skating rink or something like that, you could have the same thing, you know, that's what the forest service does and how they manage their campgrounds and a lot of their different activities. You know, there's a lot of different ways that you can do it. You know, I don't want to put too much time into each one. I'll give you high level. And then if you want to go a certain path, then, you know, we'll dig deeper into it. I can only build so many business plans in two months.

What it would probably look like is a series of very short-term leases to somebody who wanted to run a – they're basically like big, sturdy bounce houses, the temporary ice skating rinks. And it's a whole kit with rental skates and all the things. And maybe in the spring, getting a local nursery to do a pop-up lot where they're selling nursery plants out of it in the spring and then in the summer it's something else but it could just look like renting it out for three months at a time to seasonal businesses and being proactive and hunting those down yeah the other the other reason that the like two to three year mark is like in the forefront of my mind is because

We stopped collecting TIF in 2029, and the agency can still exist after that until the funds are used and committed and whatnot. But we have a finite timeline for the current urban renewal agency to exist. So that's going to be here tomorrow. So we need to be very proactive and get this moving. So that we don't have a wandering thing downtown.

No.

When we start to sunset. I want to avoid all that.

And, you know, Betts has a really great idea about, you know, you could do it as, you know, because we know that Cherryfest wants to use it. But then there might be somebody else who wants to sell Christmas trees out of it or something else. You know, there's other uses you can have for it. And I agree that the worst thing sitting there is an empty lot behind a chanceling fence. Anything nearly is better than that. you know my first thought is is the least you could do is make it you know a turf and green and something that's a little more visible even if you still have the fence up around it at least it doesn't look like a gravel lot we're getting a lot of complaints right now about you know our our other lot that's going to be a parking lot at some point you know because that hasn't moved because again we're still waiting on that to be a lay down yard for another project so you know We want to see some movement, some things you can do that are more cost effective than the others. But no matter what, I can tell you that it's going to cost you money because everything costs you money.

That's the whole point of our agency, though, is to spend money to create economic development downtown. So as long as it's doing that, yay.

Is the board comfortable with this direction? I'm looking for a nodding of heads or thumbs up, thumbs down, some amount of approval or disapproval.

Yeah, I think there's some good ideas there. I think there's a lot more to it, though, because I think reality is you're not going to have a lot of people want to invest capital in a short-term lease kind of situation. No one's going to buy a skating rink for a couple – I mean, that's a pretty big investment. I don't know what it is, but my sense is it's not cheap. So I think you're going to have to find – I mean, that's a great idea, but you're going to have to figure out what kind of reality there is. The one thing I would suggest, I know Parks and Rec has had some discussion, I think it was prior to you, Jake, about the possibility of doing something there, you know, even as a temporary thing. And I think it would be a really good thing to talk to them to get a sense of, like, do they see some activation that can happen there? I mean, even if it is just a green space, I agree that it's better than a gravel space. And they might be willing to do that just under their purview. And even if it costs us something, you know. So I think coordinating and partnering with them, because they might have some other ideas too. I mean, you could have a – yeah, there could be a lot of ideas. But there's money to be spent. I don't think we – I think we will be criticized if we spend a lot of money on something. you know, to develop something that is truly temporary. I think it's and if it's not temporary, then you need to figure out, like, how is it going to be longer term? Because it's not going to be us doing it. And I don't think the city wants to take on something like that either is my sense. But maybe I'm wrong.

Jill has her hand up. Please take the floor.

Yes, thank you. Leading question. So if staff brings back some proposals in November, Are we proposing to make a vote at that time? Whether to move forward with one of those interim uses? And why I'm asking is my thought is if we gave Basalt Commons through the end of the calendar year, would we really want to make that decision a month before we know for sure that Basalt Commons is going to go? Because that really could change our trajectory on what we want to do with that. Not saying we couldn't still do something temporary if we do RFP or whatever, but I would hesitate to make a decision 30-ish days prior to knowing Assault Commons.

It's a good point. Thank you. I think Mr. Anderson has two things, Jill.

First one is the current plan on Basalt Commons. We gave them till the end of the year, but they hope to be in that decision making mode and entering construction before that. So we should hopefully know before that. But if we don't know before that. I still don't see you making a decision with what I bring you. I see you making a decision of we like this one or this two and go bring us more information and go go do some more truth verifying on it. Like true costs, like bring me back the full business plan, not not the high level overview.

So more feasibility. I appreciate that.

Yeah. And I have not been proposing being overly distracted from plan A, which is finding an amazing commercial project that's willing to invest downtown. It's just a matter of us doing our due diligence to activate downtown in every way we can while we have control of this lot.

Sort of a dual project. Dual track or simultaneous, two-pointed ask, I think, which is activation and also getting ready to seek out a permanent significant development project, whether that's to an RFP or if you have other thoughts on how to do that. But that's what we're looking for, I think, over the next few months. Yes.

One, I hate to give you a ton of stuff to do. but here's an idea here's a thought here's my recommendation is in November could we have at more than high level call it like the 20,000 foot level what happens if we turn it into like activate a green space make it you know merge into the plaza well and once the agency sunsets or whatever happens after 2029 the property reverts to the city of the Dalles and when that happens that lot could still be sold that can always be the case yeah so like I don't it's just something to consider is like we don't have to necessarily make that decision as an agency in the next two years.

The selling of the lot.

That's something that could still happen afterwards because as far as a tax lot, it's not going to be merged into the Federal Street Plaza.

Not unless the city chose to at that time.

Correct. And if the city chooses to do that, that's a city that's, yeah, it's on them. But that would be my ask is like, what does that scenario look like? Because I think it's a likely outcome.

You know, It would be really nice if Plan A worked out and someone came in and wanted to invest $30 million that was going to go on the tax rolls and they weren't going to be asking for any abatements or anything else to activate that lot. And they were going to come and bring $15 million of their own dollars and we were going to put in $750,000 and it would be something amazing. That's a great idea. Another great thing would be is if we find a way to activate that lot, which helps activate the plaza, which helped activate all of downtown and it's wildly successful and nobody wants to see it go, even if we think we want to sell it in the future, but the, but the public's like, actually, we really liked that skating rink and that's become a part of our downtown living room. I would still call that a success, a wildly successful outcome of, of, you know, a public investment in the public.

So,

But no matter what the idea would be is, is that our investment would be of a low enough amount that at any time we can say, well, we did that and it worked really well. And we're going to take whatever we did on it and move it over here to this other lot or somewhere else, give it to Thompson park area or something. And then now we're going to sell it because there's a higher and better use for that property.

Yeah. And I think that's like, that's the ask, right? Is like, what's the high-level cost for us to do something temporary versus something more permanent, right? Like grass and irrigation and stuff like that, even if we activate it temporarily for a couple of years, we're still going to have to do that. So maybe it's a wash, right? But if we know what that is, then I think that would help me make a decision on that.

So I guess the main thing so that I'm not shooting in the dark. Is there anything you don't want to see on the lot that you don't want me to spend any time looking at? It will not be a camping location for unhoused individuals. I can tell you I'm not going to bring that idea forward. But other than that, what else do you want to not see?

Just my opinion. In my opinion, the community 100% needs one or even two more dedicated dog parks. That should not be one. I would not support that as a dog park.

You scared me. I thought you were going the other direction.

I'm saying there are places and I think there are places and entities. I'm not going to name any entities that have land in the middle and on the western edge of town ready to go. But there are those entities. They ought to be seriously considering an acre of dog park. This is not good. I over my dead body. I'll be down there chaining myself to the to the fence. So that would be my parameter. No dog park. at the Tony slot.

Okay, no dog park. Anything else nobody wants to see?

No, but something that would be worthwhile looking into is if we were able to do something bike related or look into something bike related. That's somewhat temporary. It could be a very cool way to advertise and launch the bike hub as well.

I am really excited with your great ideas, Beth, and thank you for joining the committee of me and you to continue to look at options because you're so creative. And you're on the Federal Street Plaza committee, so.

Do you have enough information to?

Yeah, I, you know, you never know what you're going to get when you walk into a discussion in public with a large group of diverse individuals. It can sometimes fall flat, but I think this discussion has been very fruitful. It's been very valuable. And while it wasn't regimented in terms of the direction that we were going, Dan and I had been talking about, I think we got exactly where we wanted to be. And I really appreciate the conversation. So thank you.

so you have sufficient direction we have right now it's soft plan a as the i think the majority of the board is voiced or maybe everybody and possibly plan b so i'm going to wrap up the discussion unless there's any further thoughts and go to staff comments and project updates

So as I've kind of sprinkled this through, you know, we started the exterior pilot refresh program as, you know, the idea of marketing the IPGA. And I think we've been successful so far. I don't know if anybody's looked at how the Canton Walk building looks right now. The carrot was a $7,500 exterior pilot refresh, which then became a $60,000 or $70,000 project in total that not only included the full remodel of the front of the building, but also a new roof. So it's not leaking anymore and significant investment by the building owner. And since that's occurred, I've heard only really positive things, except for how long the man lift is sat out in front because they couldn't find the right paint. But other than that, it's been all positive. So I think we're being really successful. I'm getting more and more interest in the program every week and I'm fielding calls. A new one that just came through is we all saw the old Chippendales building has a new owner and they painted the building and now they're looking at those old cedar shakes on the top. They're interested in coming in for an IPGA to fix that up too. And that is clearly visible from the freeway and getting that thing cleaned up is going to go a long ways. We're seeing other interest on other buildings downtown. As I was saying at the beginning, a lot of it is working through the process and making sure that all of our I's and T's are crossed. But we've got a lot of interest and now it's to the point where neighbors are talking to neighbors like, hey, I did this on mine. Why don't you do this on yours? Because it could use spruced up a little bit. And so, you know, we have the funds. We have the funds allocated and available. And I think that we're going to continue to see good work. I'm just really impressed that, you know, people are still coming forward and being willing to invest in their buildings when they're incentivized to do so. Um, you know, part of the conversation was, you know, um, do we want to go like what Pendleton's doing with the dark window ordinance and not only to have the carrot, but also have a stick. And I've been, you know, staying in contact with Pendleton to see, you know, it does the stick have any value? Is it something that you're actually using or is it the incentive side of it? And so, you know, in February and March, we, we really started talking about, well, well, what can we also do not to just help the building, which, I think we have two really good programs to help the building, but now it's, Hey, I've got this person who wants to come in and of course go through the change of use process, but they want to invest, you know, in tenant improvements, but that's really expensive too. Is there anything we can do to help people start the businesses to fill the spaces? And that's, I think is where that, that next part of that conversation is going to go. Granted, you've given me more work on top of all the other projects and things that we're working on with the airport and everything else at the city. But this is really fun work. It's really exciting work. And when you look at downtown, I think the gym's going to be a really big boon. I think as soon as Basalt Commons breaks ground, you're going to see other people wanting to invest in downtown because you know that the if you can do a project of that size that your investment's going to have payoff. You've got other people with downtown properties that are working on trying to create some more second and third floor housing opportunities that people are interested in. So there's a lot of interest out there. The big driving factor right now on projects is just the cost of, number one, getting a contractor, number two, you know, the cost of those contractors and their subs. It's just really expensive.

It's something about Pendleton, and I kind of remember they were doing something to try to get business startup, you know, like $20,000 or something.

They do four $20,000 grants each year. It's a competitive.

The thing I was hoping to find out someday about that was which businesses failed and which businesses did not fail. If there's a category that seems to...

Of the 15, there were only two businesses that have failed so far.

Was there a type?

I can get back to you on that one.

If we'd start doing that, which I'm fine with spending some money on that, I just want to try not to invest money in businesses that we're pretty sure is going to fail. I'm sure you don't either.

Or like the fourth of something in a saturated market of a specific type.

I don't know. I thought they might have some lessons we could capitalize on as they went forward. He's only had two fail, which sounds like it's a pretty good deal, but if we had zero fail, that would be a better number.

But my understanding with that program, it was just for a year and it was competitive, right?

They do four grants per year, every year using urban renewal dollars. And so they'd done 16. One of them didn't end up signing. And of the 15, only two of them had failed over the course of those years.

But say we did a program similar.

we're accepting four projects we get 12 applications it's kind of up to our judgment what we think is going to fail or what's going to succeed oh yeah if you get 12 applications um i would probably be recommending you do more than four and we fill a whole bunch of downtown spots you know starting a business is one of the scariest hardest things that you'll ever do because you're taking your retirement or your savings or whatever else And you're putting it into an idea that you have to be in charge of marketing and everything else in an environment where it's a difficult environment to make money. I mean, restaurants are having the hardest time they've ever had right now because of the cost of food and everything else. And that's one where businesses turn over all the time, right? So... But other other businesses, we have other people that are downtown that are moving from smaller spaces to larger spaces. We have people that are coming in. I have a conversation on Thursday for an IPGA for a business that wants to move halfway across downtown and they're moving into a place that's twice as large and they want to. They want to both do an exterior pilot refresh to refresh it and make it look nice, but then also upgrade some of the electrical and some of the plumbing inside the building that's only going to add value to the building. And so we're doing some of these things. It's not really just the tenant improvement. This is like the bones of the building. If we could do some tenant improvement, I think you could see a whole bunch of fun stuff. So, yes, I will add that as well because it sounds like there's a lot of interest.

I think we'd have some very fruitful and interesting conversations about exploring, I'm not sure what you call it, a startup. grant you know small grant i know that could be tricky in the sense that there have been many people have started businesses without a startup grant but that's kind of the nature of incentives right it's like if we start it now everybody prior has gone before without that benefit but I guess I don't see how you get around that. So I would like to explore it a little bit. I think that would be modest amount of funds if we could think through how to wisely apportion them to fill some spaces and support our neighbors who are kind of on the fence or maybe thinking about starting a small business.

I can tell you one thing is that when you look at the amount of money that we're investing in the Federal Street Plaza or First Street and your cost per hour, and then we think about, oh, we're going to spend $20,000, which seems like a lot of money on a business, and then you think about how much we spend per day on building a road or a sidewalk, you're like, well, we should do all the $20,000 grants we could ever possibly do because... When you think about those apples and oranges, it's pretty obvious.

Yeah, no, I think this is a good way to spend money. We're here to spend money, right? So we've got some obligations, but spending some money on some startups. I just was hoping Pendleton would have... some idea and they might not be able to help us they might go well the two businesses that failed i don't really fall in a category we can't really tell you why it didn't work or why the ones that did work work you know but if they can that'd be valuable i'll get back to you yeah okay

Are you wrapped up for the minute? Should we move forward to any board member comments? I am well saturated with work. Thank you for the updates. I'm really gratified to hear that people are making use of the exterior pilot refresh.

I've forgotten the acronym.

I apologize. Are there updates or comments from board members about urban renewal?

Well, I'm sure trying to figure out a way we can take some of the money we have to spend and spend it on fire suppression, but I haven't come up with a brilliant solution to that yet. But I just wanted to, I like your comments about we're here to spend money. He's talking about some small businesses. And most of you probably haven't seen the Portland News tonight and stuff. But there's a story about a bar that caught on fire. And it's in a neighborhood where all the buildings are right next to each other, which makes me think of our district. And the fire never extended out of the bar. I think it was a sports bar called Goal or something like that. but all his neighbors were adversely affected by the smoke. And so had he had fire suppression there, he'd have been a lot better neighbor, you know, coulda, shoulda, woulda and all that. But if you watch the news and you look at those buildings, you can't help but think of an area that where our business is in this urban renewal, there's a lot of similarities. And so seeing those stories makes me always think about You know, coulda, shoulda, woulda. You know, can we? I know we should. I don't know if there's some way to, you know, if the entire board is kind of on board with what I'm thinking. I think you guys are all pro-fire suppression. I don't think you think about it as much as I do.

Guaranteed we don't. I guess I would say, well... You might have a fruitful discussion with our economic development officer and looking at some numbers at some point and coming up with some specifics to offer. And if you said, here's what, you know, that's what we need to really wrestle with an issue. What is our budget? What is the cost? How do we incentivize?

The 50-50 thing is what gets us is they're going to have to pay for half of it. That's kind of our general rule right now. I'd be in favor of changing that 50-50 formula, but I don't know if that is difficult or – It would actually get people to do it. I don't know.

I'm challenging you to do some homework and come back with some numbers and say we would spend, you know, if we spent X dollars or X percent, here's the impact and here's the benefit.

It does seem like there would be a bit of a difference, too, in a project that's held up by lack of funding for, say, fire suppression like the Craig's building versus the gentleman that we saw here tonight where it's not in the code, but it would be nice where it's not adversely affecting economic development.

Craig Building does have fire suppression and they spent a very pretty penny on it when they built it.

But like say there is an empty building because the building owner cannot afford it.

Usually our issue is when you have the second floor apartments, you have to put in the fire suppression when it's more than one, I believe what it is. And that is a very big cost impediment to doing it. One option that we always have on the books is we have our IPGA, but we also have the development funding agreements where they could come in and say, hey, we would love to do this, but because of friar suppression, we can't do it. Would you enter into a development funding agreement and pay 80% of the fire cost? That's something that is an option that's available to anyone at any time.

Thank you for that. Other board member thoughts, comments with regard to any urban renewal topic or project? We've covered a lot of ground tonight. I feel that we have actually started to get a little tiny bit of traction on Tony's lot.

I would just like to thank our staff, Crystal. You saw that you had a supplemental come out on this. She definitely put these together very quickly. We were almost not going to have a meeting this month. I'm very glad we had a meeting this month. Just because I still didn't have the results for the... um sustainable city year program and the day it came in she was able to get that uh agenda packet out to you guys for you to start reviewing so i just wanted to say thank you to staff for for being for all of our hard work thank you crystal thank you very much thank you jacob uh last call for thoughts comments questions concerns