Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call to order the infrastructure planning and sustainability committee meeting of 07/23/2025. Clerk, will you please call the roll? Vice chair Diaz? Here. Council member Hines?

Here.

Council Member Sedolgate?

Here.

Chair Walker? Absent. Council Member Bushnell? Present. Perfect. Thank you. Moving on to public comment. Clerk, is there anyone signed in in person or online? Not at this time. And neither? And neither. Okay. Well, since no one has signed in, we will close the public comment period. If anyone pops on and would like to raise their hand, we can open that back up at the end. With that said, I will move on to the first item of business. I will call on Nicole Emery, city clerk for the board of building appeals interviews.

Thank you, vice chair Diaz, and good afternoon, IPS committee. My name is Nicole Emory, your city clerk. And today, you'll be interviewing one applicant for the board of building appeals and reviewing the applications of three board members who are seeking reappointment. At this time, staff request the committee consider their reappointments based on their experience and updated applications in your packet. In total, there are five positions available on this board.

However, no one qualified for the building owner and managers association representative position, and that one will remain vacant at this time. For the interview today, the applicant will provide a two minute presentation and will answer the following questions. Number one, why do you wanna serve on the building board of building appeals? And number two, what unique abilities, skill set, perspective would you bring if selected? After the interview presentation, the committee can ask additional questions for about five minutes.

And then once the interview and review of the applications have concluded, you may make motions to submit to the full council your recommendations for the board of building appeals. And staff liaison for BOBA is Quinn, and he is, I believe, behind you there for those in the room. We're happy to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you. So do we have our interviewee on the line?

Yes. You have the one person you're interviewing today is Kobe, and we can send them over.

Perfect. Thank you. Unless anybody has any questions, I'm ready to bring in Kobe.

Just a quick question for you to ask.

Sure. Yeah.

Go ahead. How how often does the board

of billing appear with you? What's the cadence of life?

Typically, we've been meeting once a year. Normally, we hold the meetings for if there are any co changes to our TMCs, we would convene over board building appeals and ask for a letter of recommendations by the board. Then Christine write out the current building commission then sent to council.

Do we suspect with the changes that we're gonna see more of these as people work through the code and try to make See more of what? See more of the the board of No. More more appeals? No. I I

we don't believe. Okay. The main intent of board of of the board of appeals is for if the billing official or staff makes a call on the code, you know, for per the code and the customer disobeys ask for the an appeal where the board of appeals would then listen provide their recommendation. Okay.

Thank you.

I don't know if the mic can pick you up back there. You might I might ask you to move up this way if you have some more questions.

I heard him.

Sorry. Councilor Hermes, could you hear?

I can hear him.

Okay. Great. We'll just keep here if you don't mind, just in case. K. Yeah. Go ahead.

Because I don't really understand By all means. With the board of this is appeals by some developer or some builder on what the code, like, requires. Is that what it is?

Correct. So staff, our duty is to make sure that plans, engineering plans, architectural plans meet the building code. Right? So that's the international building code, international residential code, you know, all the I codes. And the state even further amends these codes, and then the Tacoma then amends even further as well.

And so based on interpretation because there's several portions of the building codes that are pretty gray in areas, and so then the building official has the authority to make determinations, interpretations, which then if the developer, architects, engineer disagrees with, then they can ask for the board of appeals to convene, and they could be heard.

Okay. So got it. So this is something in which they put in a permit. Correct. They've started building something. We've done some sort of inspection or review of the plan or something like that. Right? This is before. They haven't had Okay. They have permitting process. During the permitting process, something has come up, and it's specifically, like, this the city is saying, this doesn't meet the code as we interpret it. Correct. And then a developer could say, I disagree, and this is the board that that adjudicates that. Are there other boards? Is there, like, a state level board or anything they can go to? People disagree, or is this the final?

This is the final. And this board really doesn't have any authority. It's more for advisory

Okay.

Right now. And then at that point, then Chris, Steven, the billing official can then take it further to maybe our legal team to take a look at.

So who actually makes a determination of whether we are right or or wrong or whether it's our

Well, currently, the way that it works is the building official makes the final call.

Got it.

And then they can appeal it, but Chris Seaman, the building official, still can't say, no. I disagree. And then they could take it to leave on that phone.

Oh, then the ultimate thing is to actually do a A civil suit. A civil suit. Yeah. So what does the this is just a group of people that will look at the appeals and give their opinion.

Profile from the. Got Got

it. So this is a group of people who would be the, I guess, kind of an adviser on this dispute to Correct.

The And they're supposed to be as neutral as possible.

Got it. Okay. Yeah. For sure. So that our answers. Councilor Hines, do you have any questions? Alright. Now we're on for Kobe.

Please bring him over.

Thank you.

Hey. Is it Kobe?

Yes. I am Kobe. Although it calls me IAPS meeting now. I'm not sure how that happened, but I signed in as Kobe, I think.

We got it changed for you here. My name is Nicole. I'm gonna pass you off to vice chair Diaz to begin your interview. She's in, the room box on your screen.

Okay.

Kobe. Can you see us in here?

Oh, yes. Let me see if I can make you a little bit bigger.

Yeah. Our camera makes us very small here in the back of the room. So, just by way of introduction, my name's, Olkie Diaz. I'm the vice chair for this committee. Our chair is out of the country, and I have two committee members here with me in the room and another council member online. So there will be eventually some questions from the virtual from in the room here. And we have, I think, two questions were sent to you ahead of time. Folks will set a timer for me there. Whenever you're ready to start speaking, they will start the timer, and you can address those two questions. And then I'll open it up for my colleagues, for any questions after that.

Okay. I'm ready.

Perfect. Thank you.

So does it the timer hasn't started just yet.

Start whenever you're ready, and we'll start the timer when you go.

Gotcha. My name is Kovik Clark. I'm interested in serving on the board of building appeals because I have direct experience, in fact, in the city of Tacoma working on construction projects, apartment buildings, and skilled nursing, senior living, memory care. I was a former partner at a preconstruction. And in the course of doing business over the course of about ten years in Tacoma, I had a number of interactions with inspectors, and the city of Tacoma inspectors are generally all very good, but codes can be self conflicting and confusing, particularly when you're talking about different agencies at the state level and different code criteria at the state level relative to city requirements.

And sometimes inspectors are put in a impossible position, and they have to make a call. And they always you know, they they they're always they're they're always making conservative calls, and that's their job. But the board of board of building appeals really works to step in when sometimes those are over conservative. And, you know, I've I've had buildings held up. We we built a hallway, for example, that only had one wall and it extended off into a great room.

There's a debate whether or not we needed railings on one wall or on the other side of the great room to turn into a dining area. And, you know, does it really make sense to hold up a certificate of occupancy to sort out that? Not always. And so I think the board of building appeals really functions as a stopgap to resolve those conflicts and help keep people housed, in circumstances where maybe a literal interpretation of the code doesn't allow the level of flexibility you need in circumstances that aren't aren't considered when the laws are written to begin with. And so I'm I'm very interested in in stepping up and and helping delivering more housing to to, the city of Tacoma and helping to resolve those conflicts.

You.

Council members in the room, you have questions?

Oh, I'm sorry. Did I have two minutes for both? Or was that just the first question or the second question?

That was fine, but I am happy to give you some time to answer the second question.

Thank you. Yes. I guess that's I my apologies. I thought it was just the first one. The second one here is, you know, the first question is why do you wanna be on the board of building appeals? I explained that. Second one here is what unique abilities or skill sets slash perspective would it bring if selected? And, again, I think the answer is it's just, a lot of experience working in construction. I no longer own or I I'm no longer a partner in the construction company that I was a partner in, but I had a good decade of experience working in construction in the city of Tacoma. And I think that that kinda contractor side of experience will will allow me to make good decisions and also demonstrates that I have knowledge of the codes that are involved in this decision making processes.

So I sold my business because I wanna get involved in public service, and so now I am here getting involved in public service.

Perfect. Thank you. Appreciate, Bridget, you pointed that out for me so I can get the full time. Colleagues?

Still thinking.

Okay. I

got it. Allow me.

Yep. So thank you, Kobe. I'm Joe Bushnell on the council. Thank you so much for your willingness to serve on this in a in a volunteer capacity. Really appreciate that.

No problem.

One of

my questions is is what is it like for you to work with a team, and how do you approach disagreements?

So I guess it depends on the context of the team I'm working with. I should say that, you know, as a project manager, the sorts of teams that I worked with were I'll give you an example. You know, let's say I've got an HVAC company and a plumber that are each trying to get into the same space. And the plumber went first, and now his plumbing lines conflict with the HVAC lines. You know, that sort of conflict is reasonable for me to resolve because we can look at the plans, figure out who's supposed to be where.

You know, there there's it's kind of an objective determination that needs to be made at in that particular point. I think in the context of the board of building appeals where I'm working with a group of people that are making determinations that are perhaps less objective and more, more open to interpretation, I think it really requires, a, hearing people and listening to all sides to the best of your ability, and then also taking a interdisciplinary approach to solving problems. Right? It's not it may not just be as simple as a letter of the law. You know, maybe you need to take a look at, you know, the the ethics of the decision that you're making, the equity of the decision that you're making, whether or not it'll be effective, and then how efficient will it be from a cost perspective.

And lay out lay all on the table openly and honestly, and then ask your counterparts to lay their cards on the table openly and honestly, and then you just work to a compromise. And, you know, having a general framework to do that in, I think, helps a lot. Great. Thank you.

Yep.

K. Hey, Kobe. My name is Quinn Tai. I'm the principal plans examiner for PDS, and I'm also helping Christine and the building official out with all of this. Something was brought to my attention that you are running for council for City Of Auburn. There is gonna be a couple of ifs. If our council IPS here accepts you at part of building appeals. And then if you were to win your council seat, then we would probably have you resign from.

Oh, okay. Sure. May may I ask I mean, that's an interesting question. What is the perceived conflict of interest there working at two different cities?

It's specifically in BOBA only in the city code. It's not the case across the board for every CDC, but it's written in members of board of building appeals cannot be employees of public agencies or whole public office.

I see. Interesting. Okay. Well, I that's totally understandable. No problem. I, I guess I will just work around that. Obviously, I'm gonna try and win my bid for office. That's fairly high priority for me. But, you know, in the event I lose, I'll still be interested.

Understandable. Thank you, Kobe.

Yeah.

Thank you. Sorry that wasn't brought to your attention sooner.

Oh, no. That's okay.

And you just keep all your irons with the fire. So, calling to y'all got more questions? Thank you, Anna too, for that. He does not leave he dropped off. Oh.

Alright. Any other questions?

Alrighty. No? Alright. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today. Appreciate hearing from you, and the clerk's office will be in touch after today's decisions are made.

Oh, okay. And I guess I should I I have one additional question.

Okay.

Understanding that that there's a conflict with me holding holding public office in another city, is there any conflict with me even running for office? In other words, should I be disqualified right now because I'm seeking another office or not? It doesn't matter.

I don't think it's the running for the language that Anna mentioned. I think it's just the holding office.

Okay. Alright. Well, thanks so much for everyone's time, and, hopefully, I get a chance to work with you.

Thank you so much. Sure.

Bye.

Caveat. I'm not a lawyer. But Yeah. We had to another applicant had to remove themselves because they had just gotten hired by Rilla or something. Right?

Oh, yeah. I thought we had originally had two applicants, so that that tracks why that would be top of mind for you. Thank you for the catch, and we'll let the city clerk's office handle whatever might come. I will look to my colleagues to see if you have any discussion items you wanted to talk about or if you have any motions you'd like to

I I have a I'm happy to make the reappointment motions, then we could have a final discussion on Perfect. Okay. I moved to recommend the reappointment of Nicholas Grassi to the board of appeals, position three, fire department for the first 01/24 to expire 08/31/2020.

Second.

Motion is made and seconded. All those in favor, signify by saying aye.

Aye. Aye.

You may oppose. Nobody else here.

Yep. Up. Up next. I move to recommend the reappointment of James Collins to the board of appeals position five structural engineer to serve five year term effective 09/01/2025 to expire August. Second.

Excellent. The motion is made and seconded. All those in favor, signify by saying aye.

Aye.

No. Aye. No one is opposed. The motion carries.

I move to recommend the reappointment of Michael Tag Taggles to the board of billing appeals, position six mechanical engineer to certify your term effective 09/01/2025 to expire August. Second.

Thank you. The motion is made and seconded. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Everybody post. Nobody else here? We are motioned. Approved. That is the end of my motions unless we have do we have some discussion we'd like to have before any further motions are considered today?

I'll say I think Kobe's seems really well qualified to subboard. And other than potentially winning a seat, I don't see any reason why I could support their opportunity to serve on the board at least in the meantime.

Yeah. I agree. Yep. I feel the same. We wish them luck. And, also, should it work out for us, then we will have a new member. So, I entertain any future further motions folks have.

I move to recommend the appointment of Kobe Clark to the board of billing appeals position two general contract to fill an expiry term to expire 10/31/2020. Second.

Motion is seconded. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Motion carries. Welcome, Kobe. With that said, I think those are all of our motions before us. Thank you, Clark, for your help, and please reach out to Kobe. They might they might have more portions. No problem.

Well, thank you so much.

Thanks for keeping files on them for me. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. So next, we'll move on to topics for upcoming meetings. For that, I will call on Annaly, committee liaison. More topics.

The first meeting in August is on the thirteenth, and we will be doing more interviews for the transportation commission. Our second meeting in August is on the twenty seventh where we will receive an update on transportation impact fees, and there will be a complimentary related presentation on system development charges. Then on September 10, there's a presentation on the 15% transportation benefit district sales tax revenues for pedestrian safety.

Perfect. So thank you. With that, we'll move on to items of other items of interest. Folks should have seen in the packet that the committee has received a letter from the Transportation Commission on the second draft of Pierce Transit's long range plan that we were presented at council on Tuesday and memorandums on the planning commission's work plan and solid waste pilot project. These materials will be available to the public on the legislature after the on legislature after this meeting. Do any of my colleagues have anything they would like to discuss on either of the memos by in more detail at this time?

Councilmember Hines, do you want it? Yes.

Is this just on the transportation one or also on the

Any of the correspondence the committee has received at this point. Oh, okay. Feel free.

The the comment I would make about the the planning commission one was I was just it's just a lot.

The meeting memo.

And I'm not a 100% sure what the prioritization would be. Is that gonna be discussed in a future meeting, or is that something that, like because I just don't see how they could get through all everything for 2020.

That they can. Think that is something I'm happy to discuss with chair Walker when she returns about what are balancing that, their timeline, and our topics for upcoming meetings.

Just something to have under consideration, especially when it comes to looking at the work schedule for the planning commission, is budget considerations on how prioritize that, especially going into the next biennium. And so that might change work schedule and workflow a little bit based on that, those priorities. Just a consideration as you guys are talking about it.

Thank you. Very helpful, alternate. I appreciate those comments. Any any other comments on any of the other things?

Just there's a lot I have a lot going on with all the different commissions, particularly transportation and planning commission. And, you know, I I would be just, I as we talk with our colleagues, just, thinking about, the additional workload, as we go through all the things that we'd like to get done. And maybe maybe there's things that you know, I think it would help, I think, the planning commission specifically if we kinda prior help them prioritize their work.

Perfect. Okay. I'll chat them. Yeah.

I know the planning commission every other year does, like, they I I don't know what it's called. It's, when people have Every trade. Do applications for some sort of review of something. Oh, private app No. I oh, man. I'm it's been a long day. Light chair or acting chair. I'll come back. I'll I'll send an email. This might have to be an email, and I'm just, like, going blank right now. I thought there was also, like, regular work every other year that needed to be done by the planning commission.

I think I think that's baked into their plan, but it could not be. So I

will Okay.

Take that back also for our company our conversation with the committee liaison at Sherlocker.

Well, the reason I brought it up was I thought it had to do with development, moving projects along,

and getting things. And so we shouldn't There's some things that have to be there.

Yeah. So we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that, you know, there's policy stuff and there's nonpolicy stuff. Maybe I just need an update on what that nonpolicy stuff is to remind me.

Yeah. We can chat more about that. And I for I no. I forgot, but I didn't get to mention it earlier. But I think is this Jeff? Is this your first one with us? Is our

I'm sending it for Romero. K. He couldn't be here today. He's flying south.

Oh, okay. I didn't know he was still keeping. I thought maybe it switched with the rules.

No. He's gonna stay. Oh, okay.

Oh, I was gonna walk him in, but thank you for standing in. Okay. Well, unless anybody has anything else, I'm also wondering if since our last meeting, anybody has met with any of other boards, commissions, or folks that they would like to provide a quick report on for the committee. We normally ask that folks visit everybody who we've appointed. No? Okay. Me neither. It's okay. Are there any other I other other items of interest beyond the ones that I outlined?

Has the planning commission's

working? No. Just other other items of interest? Perfect. Okay. With that, I will entertain the final motion.

Mhmm. Second.

Excellent. Move seconded. All those in favor?

Aye.

Aye. Okay. And