Economic Development Committee - Regular Meeting

You can start on that. I

would like to call order at the Economic Economic Committee meeting of March. Would we please call?

Vice Chair Bushnell? Present. Councilmember Palmer? Here. Councilmember Scott? Here. Chair Deag? Absent.

Alright. Next up, we have public comment. Have we had anybody sign up in personal virtually? If you're online, please raise your hand in your Zoom window.

No one has signed up in in the room or online, it looks like.

Okay. One more second. If that will place public comment. Next, we'll move on

to briefing items. The first briefing item is briefing our sector improvement project. I'd to call down Joy Rodriguez and John Finich Anybody else that's part it? Please come on over to the table.

Camera with you, or can

we even see back here?

You can wherever. Just I think mic's the priority, so we have, you know, You can begin whenever you're ready.

Great. Wonderful. Thank you. And good morning, vice chair Bushnell, committee members, everybody else. I'm Joy Rodriguez. I'm a Principal Civil Engineer with Planning Development Services, Site Building Division, Commercial Site Review Workgroup, exciting committee stuff. With me is John Sunich. He's a principal regulatory compliance analyst with Environmental Services, the business I'll get this right. Operations division, Environmental Compliance Workgroup. So we are here today to talk about the super fun, little bit of growth, but fun stuff, give you an update on the grease interceptor improvement project, also known as the FOG or Fast Oil Grease Program.

All right. We're on to the next slide, and off we go. All right. The state of FOG. So I'll start with a quick overview reminder. What is a fog? Fog. So fats, oils, greases, right? It's all that gross up that gets rinsed off of dishes, cooking wire, things like that in your kitchen or in a restaurant. The city has a FOG program that includes all the code requirements for FSEs, food service establishments or restaurants, to ensure that fog in their wastewater streams does not enter the city's wastewater system.

They install devices called grease interceptors, or GI units, to go ahead and capture all of that fog in their waste streams, hold it on-site so it can be removed and disposed of properly, and to keep it out of our wastewater system. So there's our quick overview on fog. And as we all know, back about late twenty twenty four, there were some news articles and some social media posts that highlighted grease interceptors and how local restaurants were managing the requirements for these devices. They heard some of the community's frustrations, and we dove into a continuous improvement project to look at the program. The project was looking to evaluate the current program, the maintenance concerns that we are hearing from FSEs, and identify areas for improvement, be responsive to communities' needs, and ensure that we're still protecting the city's wastewater system at that same time.

What we have listed here in our four colored boxes are kind of the four areas that we really focused on. What were we hearing? What did we see? And what do we want to ensure we're doing? So, FSEs. We heard from them. They said, Why do we really need a GI? And what exactly do I need? Kind of like what was the minimum requirements that I need to be in compliance with this, regulatory requirement? The social media attention, some of the blog posts did point out that they felt that some of the compliance costs were burdensome to the FSEs.

There was educational moments that we had in those interactions to help explain exactly what is GI, but really it was diving into the program, evaluating and revising it was the best way to approach this. We did find during this CI project that some of the design codes in our documents and our permitting manuals were a bit out of date. UPC, Universal Plumbing Code, is one of the references we have for GI devices and what they need to be sized for, how big they need to be, and maintenance standards. And they get updated all the time, and we just need to update those in our documents. One of the other things they looked at was the city's wastewater infrastructure.

Pardon me. Some of the data shows that over the past two decades, 25% of our sanitary sewer overflows were related to fall. Now this is separate and aside from heavy rain events that might cause SSOs. This was purely just fog related stuff. And if we Nope, I think it went too far. Spot back. So here are some of those fun gross pictures, right? This is a perfect example of what is that sanitary sewer overflow and the impact from fog in our wastewater system. So what we see in the kind of gray whitish stuff is just that. It's solidified fog a grass covered area.

The photo on the right, you can see, hopefully about the middle right side of the photo, a manhole lid. So that is where all of this flow came from. Essentially, this stuff doesn't get collected, and it does flow down through the side sewers of some of these FSEs and businesses restaurant into our wastewater means it solidifies, creates a a blockage, and then it all backs up and overflows. Kinda gross.

Are they also known as fat burning?

Okay. There we go.

Good

guys. Like that. Who knows this this verbiage. Great. Alright. More of the fun gross pictures, but, part of save the program. The two photos on the right, we're looking down into the solid chamber of a gravity grease interceptor, a GGI. This is one of the bigger units that a business would install outside, usually in the parking lot area. Usually has, a couple, of those manhole structure lids. You pop one of these open, and we're looking at those two photos, we're seeing, the vault floating on top of water in that compartment or in that chamber.

Down on the bottom of this chamber are all the solids. So solids on the bottom, water in the middle, and the fat oil grease floating on top. So usually, you should be removing that clog and solids when they total about 25% of the volume of that chamber. These are examples of devices that

should have

been maintained and emptied out, but they haven't been quite yet. Over on the right, this is a little bit harder to orient yourself with, this photo. This is a hydro mechanical grease interceptor, an HDI. These are usually installed inside a business or a restaurant under the sink. So usually, if they have, smaller volumes, of waste streams that they're dealing with, they'll have these inside. Again, same maintenance standards apply where you should be emptying these when, the fog and solids reach about 25% of its capacity. Mean, I it's just kind of gross. Right? Food weight that came from it was great, but, you know, the waste stream isn't all that pretty. Alright.

Now we hop on to the next. Now looking back through some of the city records, there's probably about 900 to 1,000 FFBs within the city's sanitary sewer service area. That kind of tracks with the health department records, which, of course, they permit businesses for that food safety, handling storage, for FSEs. And then we look, of course, at their waste stream. How are they getting all the byproducts off their site?

So we took a look at what are those areas that we really improve in the program? And again, provide a better service, more clear, concise information and language to our customers, to the FSC and development community. The CI project came up with six different recommendations. I'm just going read them off here, and then John and I are going to go through the areas that we have implemented, the efforts we're working on, and the rest of things that we'll be focusing on for the remainder of 2026. The first one listed here is coordination communication with the health department.

Again, they regulate one side of FSEs and we are on the other. We want to make sure that we are in constant continual communication with them. If someone's permitting a new business, most likely that means that they are updating or maybe remodeling or improving the facility that they're in, so they're gonna have to permit with both of us. Second item we have listed here is evaluating the cost of compliance. So we heard from the FSC community and some of those social media posts, they feel that the cost of compliance is too high.

So we want to evaluate what is the current industry standard for fog for GI devices? What are the costs to permit to go through our process, to install them and to maintain them? We Then want to take all that information and roll it into item number three up here, which is updating our sizing and selection criteria for fog devices and FSCs. We don't want to be having someone install something that is bigger than it needs to be, that could potentially be more expensive. But we also want to give them information about what the maintenance will be of these devices.

That can kind of guide their decision on what type of device they select, that big GTI device that goes outside the parking lot or the HDI device that goes under their sink. That's something John will touch on in just a moment. Item four, updating our sites through a manual. This is definitely an area we saw as needs for improvement. Why?

Because, well, maybe our domain for our email changed, so gotta update that everywhere. Update phone numbers, code references, municipal code references, design code references, and integrate some of these revisions to the file sizing selection criteria into the manual. Item five and six up here are going be the areas that we round out for improvements recommended from the CI project. That's enhancing our resources for FSEs. So while we're updating all the sizing selection criteria, we have a bunch of tip sheets out there now, certainly on the permitting side, also need to be updated.

We also want to work on accessibility for the community to those resources. The last item is exploring options for additional FSE support. I'll talk about that just a little bit later down the presentation. Right now, we'll be on hand with John to talk about which of these improvement recommendations we've implemented and where we are right now.

Thank you, Joy. Alright. As listed on the previous slide, the first area of improvement was to establish ongoing coordination with Tacoma Pierce County Health Department. So in this in 2025, we kicked off a monthly meeting with city of Tacoma, which includes environmental services, planning and development services, community economic development, and then Tacoma Pierce County Health Department food food safety. So these meetings have been invaluable to bring together the all corners of the FSE regulation to communicate about sites that are currently permitted permitted remodels, menu changes, compliance cases, outreach events, loan loan and grant opportunities, and then just the inter interdepartmental communicate communication efforts to facilitate future permitting potentially through a CELA.

That's not happened yet, but the last one is is something that we're exploring to to do in the future. It's been invaluable for bringing up case or customers or facilities that are experiencing trouble with getting through the permit process for us to talk about it, figure out what is the holdup, and then get back to that customer. The second item that was listed on the continuous improvement project was evaluate the cost compliance, and that includes installation, maintenance, and long term expenses. So when you're when you're exploring, as as Joy pointed out with those photos, the gravity grease interceptors typically in ground outside of the facility. The analogy that many people use, the size of a small car, that is about where it's at.

It's out the out the parking lot. It's got three lids. You've got a hydro mechanical, which can vary from a very small 24 by 24 box. They have different configurations for low profile ender sinks, and they can also actually get pretty large when when you get to a larger hydro mechanical. The unit cost so during our continuous improvement project, we were able to compile, at the time best available information on the unit cost comparison.

And we also evaluated the installation cost, and we we've got tables for that that in the in the future, we'd like to provide that so that the customers that are looking to develop their business plan can see what is the best fit for that. And the third thing listed up their maintenance cost. That is a that is a big factor. So business is booming. You're and you had a you put in the smallest possible unit.

You may be maintaining it every week or two weeks because you are reaching that 25% threshold of grease and solids much quicker than somebody that, you know, has the same size kitchen, but they're doing a much lower volume of business. And so in that case, when you're looking at the overall cost of ownership, if they went with a larger device, they may be doing maintenance at a significantly less rate, which ends up saving them money in the long run. The other thing to think about is if you so a typical a typical kitchen will have a three compartment sink, a two two compartment food prep sink, mop sink, and a walk sink or a couple of floor drains. That'll give you 21 drainage fixture units. So that's that's in the sizing policy.

That's that's what we utilize to determine the there's a table comes right out of the uniform plumbing code that talks about what size unit you do based on your drainage fixture units. And that'll be a 75 gallon GPM hydro mechanical or it'll be a thousand gallon if you went with a gravity grease interceptor. So if you're thinking about future upgrades, you may wanna think about going with gravity grease interceptor, and that we wanna provide that information to the customer. So when they're looking at designing their kitchen, they can understand the total cost of ownership before they put money down on a lease or any of those things that that they're looking at because it it's a the future upgrades, what's going with that, if you already have to get thousand gallon gravity grease interceptor, you can treat up to 34 drainage fixture units without having to upsize your grease interceptor. But if you'd gone with the bare minimum, you would potentially be exploring adding another device or retrofitting the current one that you had, which then up increases your your cost for your future upgrades.

So long term planning, that sort of thing is is something we wanna provide that information to customers.

One.

The next thing that was listed for areas improvement was our device sizing and selection requirements. So our current policy with regards to sizing and selection, the drainage fixture units, and then it factors in the number of seats or meals per hour with a clear line at 40 meals an hour. The variance process in our current policy is is a little vague and references different one in one area. Tacoma municipal code is called variance in the site server manual. It's called an exception.

Requires a licensed engineer, and there's no maintenance variance. So those are some things we wanted to improve. The program updates for the sizing and selection criteria, wanna use the uniform plumbing code still, but the 40 seat restriction is is not currently in the proposed changes, and we're hoping that the sizing on the previous slide where I mentioned the cost benefit analysis, the cost comparison will help customers find the fit that is right for them. Additionally, there'll be another option of a sizing calculator worksheet, which kinda covers some of the, one off facilities that are maybe low use, or have they have a very large kitchen, but they're maybe doing something that's less intense, like a bakery or something. So it it kinda hits the the sides of the it's not there's not a one size fits all, and that's what what why we want two options there for the sizing and selection criteria.

Additionally, we'd like the update the variance to be a little streamlined more streamlined so that a non licensed engineer can work their way through a request for variance. And then have a clear, yeah, application process for the variants and then a reduced maintenance variants for facilities that have very limited hours or seasonal operation. It doesn't make sense for them to be maintaining a device when they're not generating the same level of fog as the as their counterparts. Bring this back over to Joy.

Alright. So we are on, item number four of the CI project recommendations. So taking all that information that came from the updates and revisions to the sizing and selection criteria for GI devices. We wanna put it in something and deliver it in a nice, clean way to our customers, to the FFP community. We wanted to do this, in the sites through our manual. So currently, the sizing guidelines and then the device selection policy, there are separate standalone policies, that the city has currently published. And then we have the side sewer manual, and that has more of the FOG program requirements in it. Seems to like have three different items. Why do we do this? Well, because when things change, codes update.

We have to update what we can as quickly as we can and get it out to the public. So this project is, taking a step back to integrate everything into one resource for, for our customers so they have one place to go to get all the information they need. So this is focused in chapter five of our site survey manual, which is called pretreatment. So it talks about fog devices and oil water separators, which we don't know about right now. As part of this update, we're also looking at updating to the code references, design references in the manual.

Again, those silly things like email addresses and really phone numbers. We're the current people of contact for the information. The manual was last updated in 2021 and published, and we're just taking this opportunity to really step back and do a nice thing, update to all the general references in the manual. Also looking at kind of revising the layout. Right Right now, it's a little funky. It's not really readable. Not that anyone wants to have this on their nightstand for their relaxing evening read, but, we wanna just make it a little bit more accessible. So when people open it up, if you're not an engineer, if you're not super technical, you can still understand what you're reading in there. Because, again, a lot of the FSEs, they're local people that just say, I love food. I love cooking.

I wanna open a restaurant. We want them to understand what they're reading in this document. Right now, we're targeting third quarter twenty twenty six to publish that. And again, the rest of the chapters, they're there. We're updating what we can, but we're really focusing on that pretreatment chapter five in the document.

Morning, Tirkea. Morning. Right, you've caught us just for our last two cancer improvement project recommendations for the BOTS CI project. So enhanced resources for FSEs. This is actually one of the items John talked about, the evaluating the cost of compliance.

We gathered all that data based on current industry standards and what's the price of a big GGI device if I went to buy it from the guy down the street. And we use that to revise sizing standards and selection criteria, but we also wanna present that ongoing total cost of ownership to the FSEs so they can use it as references. So one of those enhanced resources will be creating new tip sheets, just that so they can understand it. Again, in that tip sheet style language, that's for the business owner. It's not for whoever they hire to design this stuff.

It's actually for them to understand and muse when they're making their decisions in this whole process. We're also looking at providing, again, some more consistent and clear information on the maintenance and the ongoing reporting requirements. So once you install this device, you gotta maintain it. Again, that 25% total fog and solid limit. We wanna make sure that we're cleaning it out.

And the state does want you to tell them when you cleaned it out just so we can make sure that people are maintaining their devices, again, so we're protecting our wastewater infrastructure. We looked at creating kind of a streamlined process to that reporting system. Don't know what it is quite yet. We're gonna be looking at it in our next steps, and whether this is us meeting things via email, via in person when an inspector is out on-site, or mailing in, you know, that old thing called put a stamp on it and put it in the mail. But we want to make sure that we have accessible ways for going through the reporting process and that it's clear and defined as well.

The last item on this list was actually recommendation number six, and this is one we're kind of excited about. We want to explore options for additional FSE support, possibly a dedicated staff member. I love to put one in every potential work group that an FSE might reach out to, but I think, first thing, I'd like to see them in the permitting, right? Because when they come in, where are they gonna go? They wanna know what are my requirements to open my restaurant.

We'd love to have a specialized person there to talk to those FSE, to the restaurateurs and get the word out so that they understand what the permitting requirements are, that they also have to talk to the health department, that they're going have to maintain this, that they're going to have to do ongoing reporting. Another place that this would fit fairly well is ET. They're already out there boots on the ground talking to the community, and they are a first point of contact oftentimes. We don't know quite where that will live or where we will recommend it in the end, but we're gonna keep looking at that a little bit more as we go on through the rest of the 2026 calendar year. As we have been going through doing these improvements and, again, evaluating the program and what we have in place and what can be a little bit better, We've been coordinating with other work groups.

So we've been talking to the communications group, not just in PDF, but also in ES. And we know that when we work on those tip sheet updates, we want to improve accessibility. So we've been talking to them about translation services, what tip sheets we can provide in other languages right off the bat, and how we can provide translation services for any languages that we don't have listed. We've also talked to them about maybe a community outreach program and what that might look like, getting some language ambassadors out into the community. Again, how's this program going?

Where are more pain points that you're still running into? We wanna be responsive to the community because the input and feedback that they give us, oftentimes it points out areas that should be improved in the project program, or maybe it's something that was a code update that just hasn't trickled down to our our city of Tacoma manual. And we wanna update these things. We wanna stay in regulatory compliance with, for us, our wastewater and PES permit. But, again, we wanna be we wanna provide good customer service.

Right? Oh, the third one on here is really fun and exciting, and John can talk about it more as well, but, the Fog Pilot Project. So this actually is just a future recommendation. It started about nine or ten months ago, where the Environmental Services Group reached out to a number of SSEs and said, hey. Who wants to volunteer to be in this pilot project and help us gather data on what does it look like to, to provide food service delivery.

So your Grubhub, your Uber Eats, in my mind, I think, oh, if someone offers, you know, Uber Eats delivery, they must just break it in the box, right, and just just pumping out the food. Well, we wanna know, is that really the case? So without having to update and replace their current, GI equipment in their kitchen, we said work with us. We're gonna make sure that you're maintaining stuff. It's gonna potentially be a little bit more maintenance than you'd be used to, a different cycle or schedule.

But if you'll share with us your data and what it looks like and how it impacts your bottom line and your revenue, because it's kind of the point, right, to make money, that could help us all find the right balance in this program. So what some of them have found already is that when they make, I don't know, $10 off a plate that they sell to someone that's dining in, they're making maybe half of that when it's going to a food service delivery company. So is it really a good trade off for them? Possibly not. And the volume, if they're not really seeing the regular volume that they expected, again, having to update their GI device to follow our sizing and selection criteria, it's probably worth it if they're really not gonna make that much more money offering the food service delivery.

So that's a fun program. Again, John can answer more questions about that later. But I'll jump down to the last item we had here, exploring more permitting integrations with the health department. So City of Tacoma, use Accella as our permitting system that we use. Health department about nine months ago adopted it as well.

They're having so much fun, and I mean that with as much sarcasm as I can put out there. It's an internal program for them now, but they're really looking forward to being able to make that outward facing so people can apply for their new septic system or their new, restaurant permit. Our hope is, on our side, is that we can actually integrate them in Acela on our backend so that when we have a business come in that's opening a restaurant, we can tag them so that they can be aware that, hey, new restaurant coming in, make sure that they've applied to you for their permit that they need as well. But we can also track each other's timing on the process, and they'll know when we've approved their permits, their building alteration permit or their site development permit. And vice versa, we can see when they've approved their menu or if they've had a menu change.

So again, building on that ongoing coordination communication with the health department. That's probably one I'm more excited about, but that's just where my geekiness of that permitting lives. And it does bring us to the end, and hopefully we've left plenty of time for you guys to be able to ask questions. So, and we do have another selection of environmental services representatives here, our director EM and ADM, all to answer questions as well if you guys have anything for us. Perfect. Thank you. Who wants to start? I know I got a bunch of questions, but maybe I'll send first. Sure. Thank you, Jared.

Thank you guys for the presentation. Just had some kind of, like, clarifying questions just for my own understanding of the wonderful role of the preceptors. So and maybe this is a question for the health department. So if you don't have the answer, that's fine. But what like, on the when there are menu changes, I guess, what are the examples of changes that, like, might not be approved?

Is it or I guess rather, if something's not approved, is it based on, like, we don't want anybody selling the hard boiled eggs here, or is it more of, like, this is going to increase your FOG output? And so and because you don't have time to update your interceptor and all this other stuff, we're not going to approve it. Like, what's kind of

So I can't answer definitively because I I don't work for the health department. But with regards to when you update a menu, you may be handling different foods and and or adding equipment, which then triggers more drainage fix if we're tying it to fog, you could you could be adding more drainage fixture units. And in the example I mentioned where if you look for future upgrades, the thousand gallon gravity grease interceptor could could treat 34 drainage fixture units if they'd already have been maxed out. For example, this is just a hypothetical. What if they added new lock sinks.

Right? Now they add more drainage fixture units that are gonna be producing grease, and they they might have to upsize their gravity. They're they're hydro mechanical, or add another hydro mechanical. There are situations also where it's the the layout of the kitchen can be very far, and plumbing from a fixture that's, say, 50 feet away to a hydro mechanical, so then they have to add another. So that there's many factors that could go of why a menu change would end up altering the need for grease protection.

I I can kinda answer another part of that question. Sorry. Yeah. I'm on the I'm on the health department board, but then I also did some stuff in the industry before. Some other thing that they look at on the health department side with the menu changes is the availability of refrigeration space and primarily the safe handling.

So that's, like, certain foods are gonna be like, you're gonna require a lot more freezer refrigeration than you think. And so that could also be an independent denial when you change your. They based on what the health worker sees as the the size of the need of, like, refrigeration.

Thank you. That is helpful.

We kinda started touching on the delivery services. And when you say, like, 40 meals an hour, Is there some and I guess maybe this is what

the pilot program is getting to

this having that, like, data rather than kind of assuming if you have to breathe, it's going to increase your meals per hour to this much. Like but is that like, how do you I guess the question is how's maybe the answer is pilot. But, like, I guess, how do you like, how do you factor that in if somebody is like, yeah. I have my business on, you know, Uber Eats and DoorDash, but, like, we get, like,

two DoorDash for that a week.

Do you have to they have to prove that in some way, or is it just

Right. And that's the the that's the current policy is that way. The new policy, if you use that, it isn't gonna be factored in. And so that's the that's with the the pilot is helping us inform our changes to the sizing and selection policy, which then affects their outcome that way. And, what we're finding is it's, you know, just because you have it's it's how people order food nowadays. Right? Instead of looking in the yellow pages like when I was younger, oh, I wanna eat there today. Call them up. They'd go pick it up. Now people are on their phone, and they use Uber Eats or DoorDash.

Sometimes it's the storefront. They're still going and picking it up themselves. Other times, they're they're paying it to come direct to their house. And what we're finding out is just because you're on that service doesn't mean you our older interpretation maybe would think there was much more use. And what we're finding out is it isn't always much more use, and it isn't even economically the best choice is what we mentioned is they they end up losing money per meal. And so the fact that in the past, you know, it was it was a hard line, we are looking to reduce that hard line with the with the proposed changes.

So what I wanted to say, like, in fact, the manual sent me. So I'm gonna. The thing in that making it kind of a one stop shop, but also putting in language, like, you wanna start a business that you understand all the permitting and all the things that go into it. So I just wanted to note that before I finish up. And then my last question is, so when the interceptors are ultimately, like, cleaned out, where where is the final resting place for all the the bottom?

So we we used to have a rendering plant down at Tacoma that took some of it. I believe a lot of it is hauled to down at Oregon to facilities that use it, make it into different products. I I couldn't tell you all of the locations in it. It it should be hauled to a facility that that handles that.

Yeah. Just wanna make sure. I wasn't sure if it, like, it's definitely worked. But then, like, yeah, was just trying to figure out what the or the general life cycle of fun. It's Thank Thank you. You. Anything else? I have two follow ups to those two questions, but there'd be a lot of other stuff. I asked my two. So one is around the question I think you answered kind of in where my brain was.

Around the pilot program and allowing folks to use delivery apps, I'm wondering if y'all are factoring in the fact that a lot of these point of sale systems can actually put a hard cap on how many sales they do in total, not just in delivery or in inside. But is that something that you're able to incorporate into future manual of your work that we're doing?

We we'd reach out to this is back when the all this topic had a lot of conversation going. And we reached out to DoorDash and I think Uber Eats and and tried to partner with them to see if we could get totals, and they and they were not able to to, like, give us this is this is about 18 or two years ago, probably, at this point. They they there was not the best, I guess, way for us to monitor what a restaurant like, say, we're gonna limit it to 20 meals an hour or what. We we couldn't get that information from them when we reached out at that point. What what information did you

Well, I'm hearing from business owners that they can actually do that at their point of sale system, so Toast or, like, the other things that they're actually using at the register because they also have a bottleneck in their kitchens around how many meals they can do now. So they're internally doing that work already. So is that something that you would be open to having them self report or have some sort of data that comes out of those systems to say, here's how much

I mean, we volume are open to it. But I think with the proposed changes, our I guess, what what I what I would see as the proposed changes is we don't want to affect how you market your food, and and this is really how you're marketing your food. We wanna size your grease device based on what your kitchen's capable of. Great. Right? Not not that you're using this versus not using it. So at the end of the day, I think we would prefer not to get involved with that and just have them size their device based on what our our proposed changes are.

If I can jump in on that. So we have two ways that you can size your GI device using the drainage fixture unit count, the plumbing coat, or using our, our worksheet, essentially. The worksheet, again, it's whichever one you want. We don't see you have to do one or the other. One will potentially tell you to do a much bigger device than the other one, but that's when you have to consider maintenance and frequency of emptying it out. Again, it's a whole picture. But with the worksheet, we're looking at what type of, restaurant are you. Are you a dine in? People are there for two hours. Are you, kind of like fast food type?

You know, it's real quick going around and around. We have it categorized. So there's, two of the higher volume categories are people who provide the professional food service deliveries, the briefs that participate in that, which means that there's like literally a factor of like a two versus a one multiplier in your calculation for the volume of FOG that you're gonna have going through your system. So again, it's giving them the information so they can consider what the potential could be. Now, of course, they can say, Oh, we only wanna do 20 meals, and we're gonna close or turn off online ordering.

But that's why we wanted to get the Fog Pilot here so that we can agree with that. We see the data, we're like, yeah, we understand that you're not doing huge volumes just because you're doing Uber Eats. But we're also using that to kind of feed into our process. We want people, just because the numbers say you need this VW beetle sized device, but your data is showing that you really don't, or the hours you're open, you're only open for four hours. There's another factor in the worksheet calculator that says how many hours are you open?

So again, trying to do a full picture for them. But we want to know if it's not one size fits all, and if it does not apply to you, talk to us about it. And that's why we want to make sure the variance process is clear, that just because a worksheet points in this direction, have they all information to make their decision on what best fits their restaurant, their needs, their maintenance capabilities, all those different things. So yes and yes. Perfect.

Thank you. And then the other question was around the FOG output piece. I guess for environmental services, Mark, is there y'all may tag or is there something we could try to make at ES around it? I know we had last EDC meeting or some residency programming talking about how they were working with ES around reuse or mess with it, I guess. Anyway, they're talking about how they were reusing materials that came in through through the dump. So I'm just wondering if that is a thing we should as policymakers consider funding a pilot or something. Like, how does I don't know what people make out of this. So

it's That's

a great question. DeLorean fuel? Like, I don't know what they're doing. Thank you.

For director, Romero Chavez, director environmental purposes. For the what your suggestion is embarking on a different program of how we can recycle the the refuse of the fog. At this point, we don't have any plans to do that. And it it that from my perspective at this point, it has to be a market. Mhmm.

And it has to be a a third party, a private outfit in which they can probably do that. At this point, I don't see the city getting into that particular business. It would be extremely expensive, and we have to make sure there is a market to whatever product, the byproduct of that is. So at this point, as John stated, we take it to a supplier. Now in Oregon, they do have that business approach. They can reuse and create a byproduct of that. And that is the best cost effective for the city at this point, but not to say that if if something comes up in the future, we can explore that.

Okay. Great. I think that's really my plug for, like, please keep an eye on staff on what they dream up because TAGRO was created by staff who were like, we can do something like this. So see something, say something, I guess, is really my pitch. Because we'd like to be good partners with that because y'all know what's happening there and I go.

Maybe just to add to that, Romero and I have had a discussion. We're supposed to have a meeting actually on, potential discussions with green economy businesses. So that's kind of what CEE is working on is the green economy. So if there are businesses that we might know of or might be able to find on we had talked about the grass glass recycling and then any any other potential materials that, you know, for the green economy might have contact to business like that. So we could certainly see if on the green economy side, there might be some businesses that we could explore Yep. That might do that and might be interested. Checking out the call.

Thank you. Yeah. Heard that it's not happening now. Just pitching loads. Thank you. Thank you. Oops. I have a couple questions. Last one. Thank you. Could you and all the things, but, is there, like, an average cost that this is costing things

we that industry?

Probably, it'd be it'd be a very wide range. It depends on if they're moving into a facility that already has some or all of the components there. It it I mean, you could buy a hydro mechanical grease interceptor for a few $100, and if all you're putting in is a three compartment sink or there's already a three compartment sink, could be as low as that plus the permit fee to get connected. But if you're I mean, we've seen people who spent a $100,000 on their kitchen, and that includes all the plumbing. We've seen remodels that are very expensive as well.

So it's a very wide range, and it's a case by case basis, depending on what level of food service that you plan to provide.

So when we were calling around and kinda doing some data collection, I was the cold call to, you know, my local concrete people saying, Hey, I wanna buy a GGI device. Literally pulling up plans. I'm like, I see you guys just sold this one. Was people who wanted to talk to me, to the people who didn't, it was anywhere from like 4,000 to like $10,000 for the device. Again, that's just the device, stick it in the ground.

Then you have to get your contractor to come out. How much business do they need? How low can they make their fee to have you come out and put this in for them? So a few $100 worth of potentially $10,000 But again, that also reflects on the volume of business that they're doing, right? And again, are they getting started? Do they want to leave room for expansion? Maybe they're putting in a device to serve a strip mall, right? So that each one of those units is potentially gonna be an FSC. Then John also mentioned it's that lifestyle cycle costs. That HDI you install into your sink, you might have to empty out and maintain once a week, which means your kitchen's closed, so someone can be in there.

And again, food safety, right? We don't wanna be working with waste streams while we're working with food streams. Or the GTI, you only have to clean out once a quarter, three times, four times a year. So and the cost of that. Because sometimes the HDI under your sink, it's literally a a staff member, kitchen member in there cleaning out the material, putting it in whatever container it needs to be to go wherever it goes versus having a pumper come out to pump out your GTI device. So it's that full picture, but there you go. $300 to, you know, 5, maybe $10,000. As far as, like, the the service to get it pumped out, what what does that look like?

So your average hydromechanical costs 250 to 300 to get maintained, and your average gravity grease interceptor is $7.50 to 1,000, depending on the specific. And how long it's been between pumpings, hydro hydro mechanical. Usually, you don't see extra cleaning costs because they're they're small, like, the size of a cooler. But a gravity grease interceptor, say you didn't pump it for two years and you were negligent on your maintenance, the grease can harden on the walls, and they have to scrape it off manually and get into their and do a confined space entry to clean the device. You're gonna end up paying more for that cleaning, but you also didn't didn't clean it for eighteen months.

You probably should have cleaned it three times in that period. So it it we also see variance between the pumpers.

And

when we do run into that, we try to educate the businesses, you know, make sure you get three bids on your on your pumping so you're not you're not overpaying at that point.

So So that is that's private. Right? We don't handle We do not pump.

No. No. We maintain the municipal side. Private side is private.

Okay.

What about upstream options? Like, we looked at, hey. Greece is horrible. Let's let's find an alternative to use so that we don't have to worry about it clogging our systems.

Well, in in this case, you know, the the grease interceptors, also any any food particle, whether it's greasy or not, is gonna settle out in the bottom. And then, you know, like, people don't realize that, like, if you go to Starbucks, the blended drinks, the heavy cream that goes in coffees, the leftover dairy, and even almond milk and other stuff like that will end up in people are surprised when we we tell them when we inspect Starbucks or other coffee fans Sands, that their their device actually needs to be pumped regularly. So a lot of different smoothie smoothie shops are another one where all the seeds and pulp and other things like that will settle on the bottom, and they'll reach 25% pretty regularly. And there's no fats or greases in that. So that that's one of the things that is common misconception that we have to address.

Just thinking of another great business idea. Maybe maybe somebody's gonna invent something that we could at least cut down the amount of grease that's going into these things. And so I'm hearing a lot of I'm hearing great work going into the let's inform people and educate folks and so that they have the right information. I'm not hearing a lot about how we could help with this cost, this cost burden. I don't know if there's if we I'm thinking of, like, shared cost as an option because this isn't necessarily something that you could, like, move from place to place.

Is there any share in the cost between, like, the property owner and these businesses?

That is one thing that we're exploring when working with community economic development to help with the prospective tenants to when they're negotiating their lease to one, if a commercial complex already has a we we have some small commercial spaces that say have four or five units, and they'll have three different restaurants hooked into the one unit. And so if you can get a building owner to invest because then their units then sell or lease for a better rate, and they're already set up with your service establishments. But we have heard of tenants going in and saying, hey. Look. I've got here's all my expenses.

Here's my business plan. You know what? If I could get 50% help on this gravity grease interceptor, then you can market your next next door unit. You know? And so people have people have explored those sort of things. Okay. It doesn't always work, though. It's not a some people are not property owners or building management companies aren't willing to negotiate, but it is it is a tactic that can be done when negotiating lease.

Okay. Along those lines, are there any do we know if there's any other municipalities that have maybe put that into code

where property owners I'm I'm not aware of any of that. We we did touch on that topic a little bit during the continuous improvement project, and I don't believe there was anyone that had had done that where it was required in code for property owners to do that.

And as far as, like, new construction, are we so that we're we're not requiring anything in code for that as well? It's the new commercial.

Like, a just a commercial space that for that would have vacant units? No.

Nope. Nothing that would require them to provide advice that could serve all those units. But in my group or one of the ones who review it, it's definitely a comment. It's like, hey. You're gonna have commercial spaces. You know? Consider the marketability of those that you might find if you provide a grease interceptor device that could service them all. We also include comments about what you are providing information off

of

your waste streams. We'll reference this in the Jarisoo or downstream. Like, consider all potential build out or lessees that might be in these commercial spaces so that you can think about it and build right up front so you aren't limiting things to come into the spaces. So they're essentially plan review comments. Again, it's trying to make We're not telling people how to design their project, but we want them to consider some of these things that they might not, things that we see that we know can be issues down the line for the tenants, giving them those kind of comments. We have some standard review comments that when someone comes in for a site development permit, we actually plug those in, you know, consider full build out or types of tenants that we have in the spaces. So it's our attempt, you know, to kind of help people with more information.

Yeah. So we, in CED, there are some cases where we can provide loans, that I can have my team provide a little

bit more if that's helpful. And is that to the the the foods rest the restaurant, or is that to, like, the property owner? It it depends. So it it's for

a tenant improvement, So it just depends on how the, you know, the owner is structuring the tenant improvements with the tenant. Okay. But I can talk to my team and see if they can get you a little bit

more detailed information on that. Thank you. Okay. I think that those are my questions. It it seems like we need to get creative with the cost mitigation side of it, like, trying to help folks out there. Do we know are there numbers where we're seeing we know how much how much this has affected some of these businesses? Like, do we know how many businesses have closed because they get or have chosen not to open because of the hurdles?

No. We we don't know how many have chosen not to open at this point. We we get inquiries. The staff member that works for me gets inquiries all the time for for different businesses that are prospective, and they may ping them on four locations. They'll go out and do a site visit, tell them what would be required in the existing you know, maybe it was a former business. And so that's that is one of the things that we try to do with our hands on communication is direct people towards former locations of restaurants because it's typically more affordable for them to get into those spaces to open to open. Yeah. But we don't we don't track or or have that information, unfortunately.

Have one more question. Sorry.

If if the city were exploring something, like, not brick and mortar, if we're thinking about, like, maybe a commercial kitchen that serves, like, food trucks or carts or or things like that, could that be an option? Like, would that make it or I guess, would that help in the cost of mitigating something like that

or something? It can. So we have commissaries that are open that can serve many times, it's the health department that ends up limiting how many patrons can can because as Joe or deputy mayor Bushnell mentioned, the refrigeration can be a factor. And so when you have, say, five businesses that are all mobile food facilities, they all have to have a certain square footage or cubic footage of refrigeration. And so many times, it's that.

From our perspective, if a if a commissary is open that has a hydro mechanical, we're not gonna limit how many sorry, has a gravity grease interceptor, we're not going to limit how many facilities come into that site. Thank

you. Thank you. Vice chair of.

Thank you, chair. Just first, I wanna say thank you so much for leaning into all this work, and I really appreciate all the outreach you guys have done, all the feedback you've you've you've taken a lot of meetings. And I'm really happy with the progress that's been made so far. I'm really looking forward to the improvements that we're looking for here in the near future. So I'm just really excited for that.

I love the continuous improvement generally, and so I think you guys are a great example of what that looks like. So one of the questions I had well, have first, a comment. Just listening to the conversation a little bit. I think one of the the most challenging things for a lot of business centers at Fortress restaurant when they're trying to build out their their their restaurants, their vision, right, is if the frustration comes from unforeseen or the price. Right?

Yeah. And so with the shock the sticker shock of research that would come to become about the they calculate it in their business plan or their capital investment model, that that comes as a shock and a source of frustration, which I can completely understand. So that's that's where I think the education outreach is is actually very, very important so that my folks plan and understand what they're getting into or what they're trying to build out for from the very beginning of the onset. So they haven't said the least without understanding the whole cost of what's something I go. I think oftentimes what happens is and I appreciate the councilor and the leadership on providing an understanding for property owners to provide information about the space that potential full service restaurant might be renting or leasing because it might not actually have a grease interceptor, and they're already signed into a lease now, and all of a sudden, the supplies comes up, and now I have pay a $100,000 or 50,000 or whatever.

And that wasn't in their business model or how they planned on or or their investors hadn't planned. Right? So I think I think that education outreach at the very front end is really important for people to have a. Speaking of of that, what kind of business outreach have you guys done so far? And then as as we continue to build this out, is there is there an opportunity for a feedback loop that continues improvement beyond once we kind of finalize, so to speak, the sites for data? Well,

we've done, of course, the being on the receiving end of all the posts and social media, and then the attempts to reach out and talk to people that are making those posts. What are your real issues, problems, and let's get to the root of them? That pilot project that, John Streak has been working on in some of that, Hey, let's talk about this, and provides that line of communications to say, What other issues and things are you seeing with this particular type of business model in our community? We have a super fun day. No one else is doing anything on the Saturday in May.

The code update. I don't know what that is called, event happening out at the STAR Center. We're going to be there just to talk about the portions of the code that will be updated specifically to fog, as Sean mentioned, like for the bearing process. Some of that is defined in code. But we'll be there as well just to say, hey, talk to us about fog in general, right?

Because, you know, that's what I want to do on a Saturday. Actually, it will be fun. It's always fun when we get a chance to actually hear from directly. Working with our communications groups, they're helping provide us with more ideas on avenues for how to reach out to these organizations. Some of their language ambassadors going out to Community kind of, they've explained to us what they can do so that kind of develop a plan program for that. We have simple things like our listservs, of course, that will go out and stuff before we're doing these updates. There could also potentially be just training sessions. I know there happened in the past where I believe CDC led an FSE workshop. Same concept. It's, hey.

Come in. Let's tell you about what the requirements are now, and then it creates that whole venue and opportunity for people just to ask questions in general. We really like the idea of exploring opportunities for dedicated efficacy support. That could potentially mean people, which adds to a budget. But if it's something that would be responsive and really provide that support to community, that is something that we would want to, support. Kevin explored that completely. I'll be looking at that later this year, but, if that is something that could meet that need of this particular, business group, then something we'll be recommending.

I think, as Joy mentioned, we have a pilot project, but we have in environmental compliance several 100 touch points with restaurants per year while doing business inspections. And being that BOM program is under under my group, other staff that are touching base for stormwater inspections or wastewater inspections for different purposes, they will bring back and say, hey. So and so wants to know more about this. So we get a lot of communication that route as far as outreach to the customer. And we'll be updating the website at some point after we've finished all of the revisions too so that we'll have all the tip sheets and be able to get everybody back to one central location, whereas before, it

was hodgepodge and unlicensed. So Great. Thank you. And then on one of the questions there, an idea I had from the reporting portion, I know we had talked about, you know, having some sort of regular updates to the city on with, you know, intercepting to be

cleaned out.

So that way, you know, they are in compliance. It the city is doing generally some sort of inspection on most of all of these facilities in some way. So I'm wondering if maybe we don't have to, you know, reinvent the wheel and send a new person out there to inspect the logs. Maybe it is I mean, there's a log that the restaurant keeps doing something like that, and that that yearly your company make sure you check the data and information. Just I'm just trying to think of, like, how can we use life? What what's already happening? What kind of stuff? That maintenance record. So, I mean, it could be that or, obviously, that reporting, but there's there's I think there's ways to do it passively so that way Yeah. So on that and exploring that.

And then is there any is there anything that we can do as a as a to help support the work that you're doing to get the information out? I sent out a court letter to somebody other colleagues about you. Well, is there a thing that we can do to help you guys get that feedback you're you're looking for? And then also help spread the information so that we can sort of make educated decisions on the work that they're trying to do.

I think I I can't think of anything offhand right right at this moment, but I definitely follow-up if I could if I come up with something. Okay.

Well, great. Again, I just really appreciate all the work you guys are doing. I think it's phenomenal. I'm really looking forward to continue working with you and trying to get.

Thank you. I think most of my questions have been covered. I had maybe two left here. One is around, and I apologize if you said this before I was able to join. Is there a plan for for this, new formula transparency on the front end similar to how we have the, the the FogFlyer now for folks to know who all the different numbers to call as their plan for sort of staying upfront to counselor point So people see like, oh, I'm trying to open this cupcake bakery here at this volume, but I'm hoping to get the space next door and grow and suddenly become a DJ cupcake place.

And, like, it's gonna increase my volume so they can kinda plan at the onset for what they're vision for, what they want wanna get to versus where they're starting now and how that might impact them future term. Yep. So we wanna create, a tip sheet. And, again, the idea of tip sheet being that, high level language that's easily digestible. Taking some of that total cost of compliance information and putting it out there. And part of that is considering future expansions and are you starting small? Are you gonna be growing? Don't just plan for what your size is right now. Think about the cost. That would be included if you were building your projects.

So that's where we're planning to locate all that information, along with, again, kind of the higher level presentation of what is this sizing worksheet that I would be looking at, giving people that nice, clean, easy example of here's a Starbucks, and here's what they typically would have. If that's something people would kind of relate to, here's the device that they would need, and then here's our, say, Pizza Hut, I love Pizza Hut, and here's type of device they would need. Just a clear example, I mean, those are two ends of the spectrum, but just so they can have that information and maybe picture it in their head. Because oftentimes, I mean, these restaurateurs, they have this vision. They know what it looks like.

Sometimes maybe it's too grandiose and it's more than they could possibly do, but, oh, that's what they want to do. We want to help them get to where they need to be, make sure we're not, you know, sticking a barrier in before they even start. Great. And then I'm wondering, how that might end up looking as something that people can use to compare to neighboring jurisdiction. So as we're making our updates, how are we being mindful about using it as sort of a marketing tool?

Because I know right now I hear or from a business on Sunday, he was like, if I don't get this FOG stuff figured out in the next three months, I'm closing and moving to Portland. Right? So, like, we can't control that choice, but I'm wondering how we can control our own policies, our presentation, and how we're talking about, and this might be more of a CE question in comparison to neighboring areas. Because I know that our restrictions and roles are both different and more complex because of the health department. But, right, for even someone in Northeast comments real quick and easy to go over to Duke County where their roles are completely different.

That's a fun one. I mean, I'd like to say everyone, almost all jurisdictions, still have to fall back on. They have an NPS wastewater permit, and that requires all of us to make sure that people don't send fog down their lines. I mean, that's where the pretreatment program comes from, really. And everyone has a presiding health department.

So I think it's almost a marketing the similarities between different jurisdictions. The thing that I would say would be great to market in Tacoma is we're friendly and come talk to us. And again, having that presence and the point of contact and knowing where to go, I would feel that would be a way to market us. You're going to have, in theory, the same requirements no matter where you go, but just how you get there is kind of the difference. And I won't call it any cities, let's say, town over here, no one ever answers the phone, it takes thirteen to fifteen months to get a permit versus town over there, I call, they always answer.

They're always available, and if they have questions on my permit, they get right back to me, and it's a four month process. I feel marketing that to our accessibility and how friendly we are. So, I mean, I like to think all my coworkers are pretty fun to talk to, but that would be my thought on approaching that. And, again, a little bit of CD, as John mentioned.

And I think with our proposed changes, we'll probably be more fine than we were previously Correct. With the with the neighboring jurisdictions too.

So That's really helpful. Because at least from the city side, what we can control, I think, will be really helpful. Because I hear regularly out of call now, Probably the best place, particularly from developers. We're the best place to do anything that has to do with permitting. Pierce County is the worst.

And then on the flip side, on the group or on the restaurant tour side or the FSCs, I constantly hear that we are the absolute worst, not just the city of Kilmer, but anywhere in Pierce County because of the Pierce County Health Department versus King County Health Department, which is phenomenally different in how they approach everything related to food. So not just restaurants, but also the food trucks, the commissary patients. Everything else is easier out there. And that's, again, that's not us here, big on you. But it is I am I am the alternate speaking to myself, but, like, it's, to the health department, but it it is and I know the new health director looking at how they can adjust things there because I think they've been really stagnant and different in the past. But I think to what degree we can help control and market ourselves, I think that's gonna help.

I was just gonna add, within King County, there is definitely some more challenges. Just, you know, maybe set a different. I think it is very complex. I think your point about, you know, the the positive side of it that we are even. But it is really complex, because a lot of times, even on on other, like, with change of use for for buildings, you know, there's a requirement for a tenant if they're coming in to read the lease.

And if the lease says it or doesn't, you know, the tenant may or may not understand what that means, but they're signing a lease. So then they you know, just as another example. So there's there's a complexity of the lease, the tenant, the property owner, the requirements, and then just not understanding would be the losses of of running a restaurant. So it's hard, I think, to, like, hit all the all the buttons, but I think that that's a really good, suggestion on, you know, just really focusing on the positives that we already see here. I haven't been here that long, but I've heard that a lot as well. We're done. Hope what we can.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for everything you present. It's really exciting. I think we're make leaves and vounds from where we started with this over a year and a half ago. I do have some concerns around how fast we're moving because I know we're kinda moving as fast as we can. Probably faster than we originally thought, I would guess. Just just thought. I could be wrong. But, I know that there are lots of businesses who are still struggling with our system as it is, and I'm wondering if there's a way that we can start thinking about how we provide any kind of relief or solutions for those folks in a faster timeline. Or I I don't know if there is something that we can do for that. If it's individual,

do

I have folks who who would I have folks reach out to directly around that? I don't want I I feel like it's a recurring topic, and I I don't mean to point that out about us. But I I think when I started with the city, which has only been like eight years ago since I've been in this jurisdiction, that was my continuous improvement project I jumped in on. It was a restaurant TI, you know? What do they see when they come in?

And eight years ago, so many design requirements have changed since then. The structure of our organization has changed everything else. So any tip sheets or habits we put together back then, they're not a complete, but they are part of our enhancing our resources for people. But it is, it's just that do they have a team? So I was part of that team that if someone came in and applied for a building alteration permit and they indicated they were doing a restaurant TI, they got our group.

And we would triage their submittal right away and look at it and give them feedback. If there's something they're really missing, make sure they contacted the health department so that they're starting on that track. That's really what we're looking at. What we would love to have is not a team, but a staff member dedicated to that, how to help them sooner. I mean, I can't say that we have expedited permit process because that takes forever to implement that formal program, but be nice if some of my higher ups said, Okay, you over there, you're our new point of contact.

Anyone who comes in, we're going to brief you. You know everything about what it is to do a restaurant TI or a new restaurant, and you're their point of contact. That would be a quick solution to this. Of course, that's why I say, It's above my pay grade to direct, people that aren't my staff to say, Hey, make that in point of contact. That would be a way to do it.

Educating our permanent desk, our permanent specialists, that we do have updated information. That'll be another way to kind of get that stuff out to people right away. An easy implementation would be, hey, if someone comes in and you see a permit application come through for a restaurant, make sure you just send them this templated email that has links to all of these updated tip sheets. That could be another way to kind of start addressing it. There's people that are already in the system, just wanna find a way to reach out to them to say, Hey, you're stuck, you're struggling, contact us.

We do have people looking at installed permits, whether it's a site development or building permits, and trying to address those and clean them up in our system. So as part of that, that's when we might come across some of these, restaurateurs that are just sitting there and not progressing. So that we usually will reach out to them and say, hey. What's going on? Your permit's about to expire. Then that's opportunity for them to reach back and say, I don't know what I'm doing. And then usually they pass them off to someone like me, and I say, let me help. Tell you what you need to do. So there's things that we can do. Getting or signing up a dedicated point of contact probably be the easiest, quickest way.

So

Great. Thank you. And I think that's here on your future recommendations. Right? So those are really helpful. I really appreciate those two slides. And then here, a very silly question, but, I know that we're doing a really good job coordinating between all of our city departments and the health department. I'm just naively curious if there's a role at all to try and loop in the LCP. You gonna worry talk a lot about food service establishments, but there is a requirement that bars have food there. And so to what degree that we need to triangulate with them, I don't know.

Like, is what's on the menu gonna vary on how much of a brie shop they have? I think about, like, a wild drink, like, a French 75 that has egg yolks. Right? Like, what's the threshold there? Is that all? That us at all? Does it factor in? We don't know. That's a great question. That I would love to ask the health department at this Monday meeting, actually. Okay. Yeah. Good one. Would love to know. And just because I know that I've seen restaurants try to then open up. They've dealt with all their goose chump issues. They've dealt with everything else, and then they try to serve, I don't know, beers or something. Like, LCD clamps down because of their own regulations around bar space and common space and everything else. So I I just wondered to what degree we need to be maybe putting that cook in our kitchen as well.

Yeah. That that would definitely another regulatory agency could be great to liaison or to interact with, see what they're they're at least for a few meetings to see what what points they can bring in to help us.

So who knows how tenable or untenable that is, but I just throw it out there as a thought. Great. Anybody else have any questions? I guess my last question then is is there anything I think deputy Michelle touched on this a little bit, but is there anything that y'all have planned around community outreach currently, or is that just the next steps around how we get a dedicated outreach person for the food service establishments on where we're at and where we're going? Definitely part of our next steps.

So as we're finishing up, like, the technical, you know, boring back end of it, I'll be moving into working with our communication specialists, both myself and PDS as well as John and ES, say, okay, how do we get this information out? Because, I mean, they know more than I do, and and they can make things look prettier than I can. So that'll really be our next steps. We have the the boring ways, the listservs, the slash pages on, you know, tacomapermits.org, of course, and the, the presence on the website. But someone's got a click there to be able to get that information.

So Yeah. To his point, we have newsletters and things, but there's also we've got a whole queue of a year's worth of EDC leads that we could do a round table or something with that. Like, there's other ways that we could try to help make sure that folks are hearing that in industry, but I think I'd love to be creative around how we get there once we have something to sort of share. Cool. Thank you. I think that's everything. With that, thank you all for coming. I'm sure we'll have follow-up questions, but I'm really excited about the work you guys have gotten done so far. Very grateful. I don't think there's a week I go by that someone doesn't find me in the community that come out.

We send a checkers and anything. It's it's a very big thing in our economic world. With that, I think we can close-up here and move on to our next topic. So I will go ahead and call on Anna Lee, our committee liaison for topics slash upcoming meetings. She's coming up in case our sound is weird in the group.

Yes. Nobody can get back there. She has no mic back there. So In two weeks, April 14, workforce development will be here to talk about their 2026 priorities impact and labor market analysis, and there will be a presentation from council member Scott on enhancing diplomas local bills and industry. On April 28, there 'll be an annual update from the World Trade Center.

We will hear about the arts and cultural vitality division's strategic plan refresh and an update on Waj Maya's return to Tacoma. And on May 12, there'll be a quarterly update from CDC. Thank you. Are there any other topics of interest? I will entertain the last question. No to adjourn. Second. All those in favor, simply say aye. Aye. Aye. On the post, we are adjourned. Everybody