Parks and Recreation Committee - Regular Meeting

to call the meeting to order.

You can call the roll, please. Yes, Chair. Chair McBride?

Here.

Vice Chair Chance-Sanchez?

Here.

Committee Member Schneider?

Here.

Chair, you have a quorum.

Thank you. The approval of the minutes, does that come before or after a walk-on item?

That comes after the agenda and order of business. Where is that? Oh, right there, okay.

Agenda and order of business is number two. So I do it now?

Yes, if anybody has a walk-on item, then we'll bring it up now.

Okay. I would like to ask the committee, as we did last year, because of people traveling and other personal things in the summer, we canceled the meeting in June and July last year. and it was brought up to me that other cities, and I looked into it in the area, they don't have meetings in the summer because the committee doesn't get together because of people traveling. You work in your vacation schedule around this schedule, because this can't change. So I just wanted your thoughts. The next meeting at this will be in September? August. In August. August. That's when Tim would update you on summer camp will be closed by then. School's back in session. Summer camp would be closed. And over the summer, except for July 4th and summer camp, that's about the two activities.

You did this last year. Correct. Because understandably, there's people that have typical schedules and they have vacations and I don't know what the particulars are for all the members. I wonder what advantages there are. Obviously there's advantages to not having meetings, but you know, I'm here. And if there's three other members, then a meeting can take place. Okay. I'm just throwing it out there.

So it's not automatic that everyone... But I don't plan on...

I would rather plan my vacation. Do you know that you're away June and July?

I want to be. June and July, you know you're going to be away. I want to be. I don't know that. I have a person at home that arranges that for me. Tells me where to go and what to do.

That's like, I'm here.

I'm sorry, is that a discussion item? It's a walk-on. Okay.

So, I'm fine. If I'm here, great.

I'm fine. Right. To officially put them off, we're only getting so much done. Okay. And it would be nice to...

Okay. So I will take it back and we will plan to meet in June and July? Our clerk will be here.

Is that a burden on the staff? Tim's here 12 months.

When does Tim get vacation?

He's on vacation this week. He's a new grandfather. I wouldn't call it a vacation this week though. Tim gets worried if somebody sneezes three counties over. So imagine it with the babies.

My point is for the sake of getting things done for the benefit of the town.

Okay, I'm fine. I'm fine. I have no plans at this time. Don't plan your life around me. But I have no plans at this time. I'm going away next week, but I have no plans after that. So I'll certainly be back. Okay. All right, then let's move on.

Mr. Chair, sorry, I'm out of order, but could you consider moving public comments up before...

or after the approval minutes absolutely is that okay can i get a motion to move sure item six after approval of minutes are you the problem yes are we done with uh i need a motion first to be able to move the item six yes Motion. Second.

All those in favor? Aye. Motion carries.

You're welcome. I'd like to discuss the possibility of adding a bathroom at the top lot and putting that out as an item.

Do you want to begin the motion?

At the top lot on Hawthorne? On Hawthorne and 90. So it's a restroom...

I mean, right now you have, it's packed. You have a lot of families that move here with little kids, and they're just going to the bathroom all over. And then, you know, women don't have places to probably change. There's no changing area for kids, so we're doing changing diapers on picnic tables, and kids are peeing and urinating on the grass, and

Can you define bathroom? Can I define it? Like temporary port-a-johnies? No, like full of bathroom structure. Like a facility. A proper washroom facility. Yeah, like you would see in the park. Yeah, a proper washroom.

So mothers could change their children, kids could go to the bathroom. Absolutely. It could be an area for a changing table as well.

Good thing. Motion to add it to the agenda?

He made the motion. You second the motion?

Yeah.

All those in favor?

Aye.

Motion carries. That's going to be put as item 5A.

And I have one concern that I don't know if we can walk this on. You know best, manager. The empty house here that I believe falls under Parks and Rec. the house that we, the town acquired, Haynes. Is it right for us to talk about it? I just went by there now and I know that it's sitting empty. There's, you know, creatures wandering around. There was a sort of like a city bike that obviously belongs to a homeless person tucked into the the bushes there with some things in the basket and stuff like that. I want to be able to talk about that as a comedian.

It was brought up last month that, and I felt that things had moved forward which Mr. Manager stated that it was mentioned, but nothing was in concrete. And I'm sure maybe you can update us on that. But I second the motion to talk about it.

Someone else wants to second the motion.

That's right, I don't do nothing.

Are you seconding the motion?

Yes. This is... That will be as item 5B.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Can I get a motion to approve the minutes from the April 21st meeting if anybody has any changes to them or adjustments? It wasn't very exciting.

Making the motion, yeah.

Are you seconding the motion?

Second. All right.

All those in favor?

Aye. Aye.

Motion carries.

All right. Commissioner.

Thank you. Chair McBride and hello, everyone. Gerardo Villalostegui, 9148 Broward Avenue. As you know, I like to do the rounds of the boards and committees every once in a while and say hello. Hello to Mr. Sanchez and Schneider. And I haven't been to this one in a while, so I haven't followed the thread of your conversations. And so forgive me if anything I'm saying here is either repetitive, has already been dealt with, or just otherwise unwelcome. But I had one small point to make and one larger one. The small point, I was remembering back the other day to our Commission Candidate Forum last, I guess, February. And I remembered a point that Commissioner Cotto made that I thought was a really good idea, and it got a really nice response from the audience there, which was the suggestion to have ESL classes at the community center. And no one's ever brought that back up again as far as I know. I don't know if it's come before this committee. But I think it's a great idea. It really is something that could really, you know, there's people from every segment of the community who could use that. And this is something that might naturally start in the fall. So perhaps putting it on your agenda or on your radar in May or June would be good timing. So I just wonder, you know, if the committee would consider that and maybe one of you would consider bringing forth an item to look into it. The second item is much broader and it's probably related to things we've already talked about. I just wanted to let you know that at the Commission meetings I've been pushing in various contexts the idea of having some kind of strategic planning for Parks and Recreation. I'm concerned that You know, we have inaugurated this wonderful park that was years in the making, but I'm concerned that we don't have a vision for the next big thing. And I feel like it's part of the responsibility of every commission not just to do the ground breakings and the ceremonial openings, but also to lay the groundwork for the next big thing that some other commission five, six, seven years from now is going to have the privilege of inaugurating. And so I would love to see a public process geared toward that. I've been trying to get information about the 9353 Harding site? What are its possible uses? What even is the possibility of a second floor in the community center? Is there a better use of the tennis center? And I would love to bring it all into some kind of planning process, and I wonder if you have any thoughts about that. If so, I'd love to hear it personally, but I also would ask you to do maybe more than that, which is to talk to the other commissioners about it, consider, if you have a collective opinion, putting that in some kind of resolution so that we can

Yes. What are your visions for the second floor, if it is... No, I'm glad you asked.

I really don't have any in particular. I was concerned that I just want to know what's possible. In my vision, there would be a sort of big picture plan where you have your wish list on one side and then you have your available facilities and resources, monetary and otherwise, on the other, and you just try to come up with the best match. And I think it's just crazy that 20 years out, we still don't even have a clear answer from an engineer about whether that's feasible. So we don't even know whether that's something we can consider. So I would just like to know what's on the menu of options. That's really my only thought.

Either we're going to get an answer that is possible or it's not possible and move on to something else.

And specific questions that have come up, like if something were to be done there, could we maintain the pool open? Could we maintain the use of the first floor? What would construction entail? These are just practical questions that I'd love to have an answer to and an MO from an expert. And I'm concerned that we don't have that information.

And no action was taken.

No action was taken. We discussed it for about two minutes. But that's why I'm saying it's like, and it's part of this larger suggestion of doing some kind of strategic planning. It's only one component. So just to the chair, that's a great idea.

Dreaming is free, they say. And so I see it more as like, I don't wanna get lost in the details, even though they matter very much, engineering-wise. A second floor, there's reasons. You can look back and see why that didn't happen and what provisions were made structurally for that to happen at a later date. and so on and so forth, but I think what you're saying is this committee ought to devote a little time, perhaps at each meeting, and just have an open discussion about what might the Parks and Recreation do, you know, along with the other interest of the town to develop something more specific, such as what might happen down at the south end of town. And even the idea of a facility at the top lot is part of that as well. A little brainstorming, call it whatever you want, the vision thing, a little long view. that can maybe carry over, and even though it's not the right time now, it might be the right time later, and so on. So I would support avoiding sometimes at each meeting, I agree to that, call it something. Future planning. It's very important.

Yeah, because if you're stagnant, and then things get, people start asking, well, You know, I've always looked at the community center as it was built for a community center. I've done research when we, we had the certification, we decided to remodel and built a new one. It was all brought in to me in my research that the community center was there to bring the town people together. Because at that point, a lot of the town people didn't live here. They were vacationers. You had a storm coming. We didn't have a weather channel at that time to alert us every 30 seconds on our watches that there was a storm coming. So you met at the community center in the second floor room, and that's where the information was dispersed to tourists and to the residents that were here for vacations. So it was a community center to disperse information about storms and everything else too. But and it was also a great place to go as a kid to go to movie night.

It's always going to be great. And so to your first point, about perhaps having a second language. Also, great idea. It's something that is probably not terribly expensive. There's people that already do that at the schools. I know some residents are in the Miami Dade Community College language programs. you know english as a target you know language that everyone here ought to speak and have full command of you know with that said there's there's many other languages as the first language so you know probably plot our um handles programming through mr million

Does Adrian do it? As far as setting up the gymnastics classes and the art classes and stuff?

I can't answer it specifically.

I'd like to add to the minutes that we could direct Tim to direct his staff to look into if the ESL classes are offered at school they are they are just fine oh well yeah they offer it at different schools right for for adults for adults right i know if i were officially they've had a big program forever yeah but that's not in the neighborhood it's not no but if we take the right tim to look into it

Yeah, folks in the neighborhood, I don't see as, you know, being big users of that program, but certainly North Beach, there are folks there in South Beach, too, which is why they do them at those schools. Right.

We might. You could do a model run and see what the feedback is. You could offer it and see who's willing to sign up. That would tell you if there's a demand for that.

I think a lot of people in town will have relatives and there's a lot of .

There's a lot of older people. There are people here that A, they want to be busy so class helps stimulate their mind and also learning a language is a good thing. There's a lot of people here that don't speak the language. It's probably not expensive to run some sort of polling and see who would take a class.

So I am in discussion right now with two potential vendors, each of whom operate these kiosks, if you will, or vending machines for this equipment. So I think by the end of this week, I'll know which one we're going to be going with. both offer similar type of systems. One company is, I think they go by P-A-D-L, Paddel, and they exist already on Miami Beach. So they have these outlets, like the closest I think is at Pine Tree Park on Miami Beach. If you went by there you could see how that operates. And this other company is not, more outlets across the country and they've given us an offer and so I'm just waiting to compare it to this other one. It's so expensive to get into. Not really. Jim quoted like $10,000.

Well, okay.

It's all relative, right? I mean, I deal with big numbers over here. So I think for sure either of these options would be no more than like a $14,000 outlay at the most. The town obviously would get some kind of profit sharing, but we're not really doing it for that. We're really trying to offer another service for the residents to be able to use the waterways and not have to lug equipment to and from the park. So that's kind of where we are. I think after this week, we'll know which way we're headed.

I guess, are we... committed to them for a long period of time, or is it, if it's not used, will they pull the machine out?

I think they, so the answer, at least with one of them, is yes, we would be tied to a five-year deal. And the reason for that is because it costs them far more than the amount I quoted. to set it up and also have a local rep that would have to replace things that got damaged or be available. So they're maintaining it just like the vending machines at the parks? They maintain it all. We just need to provide a spot. They provide the vests, they provide the paddles, they provide all the equipment. It's like a turnkey operation. And they build that into their network. It's kind of similar to the whole city bike concept, if you will, just for paddle boards and kayaks.

Did they discuss anything with you regarding what they charge, like pricing for the residents?

I believe it's in the neighborhood of... They have two different forms of payment, but it's like $30, $35 for a certain period of time. Or you buy a membership for the year, unlimited use. I think that's their two forms of remuneration for the use. So they look to really sell memberships. That's how they capitalize on it.

Do they require an attendant? No. What kind of real estate do they need?

Like area? Not a lot of space. They have seen the space which is behind They would set up basically up to eight pieces of equipment. The one company does it in like a, I'll call it a cage, but it's like a locker. It's an open locker. some kind of contraption where they mount it you know vertically if you will does their equipment have uh individual like gps or like city bikes i imagine they track it somehow it's their equipment it's their equipment so they don't want to lose it you know they replace it if something happens to it and uh

Just to, have we got any data back now from the kayak, the ramp? The usage?

Do we have any data on that? It's not utilized as much as it was asked for, but it's utilized.

Can you use some? And the FOB?

The FOB is set up, but I tested it the other day and it didn't work, so they're coming back to fix it.

I have a couple thoughts on the companies. Are they going to have enough equipment, or are they going to pace themselves as they see what the demand is?

Yeah, I think initially eight units is where they're looking at. And they're going to max it at that given time? That's what the initial amount of equipment, because they don't know how it's, this is the first here. They're going to see how it's used or not. But that's the commitment so far.

Are we limiting it to only Surfside residents?

So yes and no. So the answer is yes. But if they have a membership with the organization that we choose to contract with, they would have access as well. So in other words, if you had a membership in company A, Got it. and it shows on their networks that there's an available place here, then they would be able to get access to that. So how would that individual get access to the kayak lunch? They'd have to go to the town rep, the park rep there, and that's how they'd get access.

Let them know that I'm part of this network, I have reservations for a kayak, and I'm here to pick it up, and they'll just walk. Do they help? I think it's amazing. I'm so happy to hear that we make progress here, because this is exactly why we spoke about this a number of months ago, that this would definitely be something that would be very, very excitingly accepted by people in the community. The question really is just managing...

the demand it seems little but i think they'll pace themselves they'll build as they realize the demand is going to be you know i think just i think i think the word will spread yeah once we have it out there and implemented and listen for for them these companies too they're looking to expand networks um so this is the the only one i'm aware of that's closest to I think it'll be a good thing. Plus, depending on which company we use, if we use the one that is on Miami Beach already, you can theoretically paddle one way, drop it off there, and then get on a trolley to come back.

It's all kinds of things. And they leave it on the...

on this contraption standard. Okay, but keep it out there. Yeah.

The quarterback. You know, did we discuss, I know we had a conversation that we had an age requirement. 18. It's 18, that's all seven. It would be a little 18 years old.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. And you can't rent it if you're under 18. Age, certainly, I replied, There's different degrees of expertise and familiarity with equipment. I think that it's fair to say that our efforts to provide the service is for the novice to the occasional recreational user. I know experienced battle boarders and kayakers. They have their own equipment. They're already launching at other places. They prefer to be in Olita State Park or something like this where they get the maximum experience. What we are wanting to offer here, what we offer now, I believe that it's for a What's the nice way to say it? You know, people that aren't necessarily, you know, avid sportsmen. And with that comes other concerns. Like, obviously, you know, we have... So I want to have... I just want to put that out, that there are levels of... to appeal to people that are not necessarily...

It's something that... I would probably go rent, try to see it before I go out and invest in a 500 or something, whatever they cost before that. Same as I've rented jet skis before and I've seen people that are running jet skis thinking you can't even walk. What are you doing on a jet ski going out in the Keys out into the intercoastal? But then.

Let me know when you wanna get on a paddle board.

Are these single person kayaks? Probably, yes. The kayaks and paddle boards? Both. Oh, yeah? Yeah, both. That's a lot. It takes a lot of energy.

So, you know, I'm just imagining a scenario where someone takes a paddle board or a kayak, ends up in haul over and gets sucked out. I just want to be real blunt like that. I've been fighting. I'm losing the battle, but we're here.

But we're not responsible in any way.

That's on the company and the person that signs waivers.

How do you do that?

They do it electronically. They have all their insurance.

They have to have it. I was the first, any of these companies, city bikes, paddles, anything that you rent, there's a lot of things that you scroll to the bottom and just agree.

I just rented a boat in Georgia in March, and it was, my God, I signed that thing, I was buying a house. But you're taking a 32-foot pontoon boat out in the middle of a lake. There you go.

Listen, it is, you know, when people do, they should definitely give, you know, we'll ask people, have you ever done this before? Stay low, be careful, because I know that if you start going towards that sandbar over there, It's a workout coming back home. I went out there once and it was a workout.

Maybe we can get Mr. Five Point, this company, can they do a workshop? You know, a demo? A demo for residents? Maybe you want to try this first time out. Maybe somebody who felt maybe nobody should walk.

A little safety demonstration. They'll probably take a room in the community center, invite people in, put up a video, a couple Q&As, and just...

So the old days, you go to the pool, and there's five pool rules that are posted here, they're posted there. Head this way, don't go that way. If there's something at the kayak launch that says, you want to do this, don't go beyond that, don't get tired, blah, blah, blah, I don't know, five things.

Anytime you put information out like that, you kind of expose yourself. I just put my lawyer hat on. It's the same concept when you have a lifeguard stand on the beach. You're now exposed to liability. That's why God Harper doesn't have it.

Okay. I worry about it too. Especially... parent to go, okay, I'm 18, I put the credit card in, I sign things, Johnny, you come back in a half an hour. Johnny's at Wittig, Bermuda.

That's on the parent. Okay. So, sorry, I'm trying to understand, if you post, it sounds like they're rules or suggestions, and if someone decides to go left and you tell them to go right, that becomes a liability?

Any time you put out information, you're involved. So... Just go into it with your eyes open. The vendor will be responsible if they choose to do business with you.

Yeah, I guess they own all the problems. Except the ramp. We own the ramp.

Right. Yeah.

All right. Good. That's the latest and greatest on it. I think that'd be very good.

Summer camp. so that that's a tim and adrian thing i asked to get some information on that but i don't have um well we know ymca is going to run it that's and which is a positive thing and i'm sure that they have a wonderful itinerary lined up for the children how many rich when registration opens it should be open now school's closing june the 7th we're going to be looking for somewhere to put johnny

I'm sure they know what they're doing.

They've been through this rodeo before. What's the fee for a summer camp? Not for us, for the kids.

I'm sure it's not a lot, relatively speaking.

No, and if he's going to run it, like last year, rather than pay for the whole summer, we broke it up into two weeks. mini sessions and because you know what's he what do you want to pay for your child to go to summer camp or if you're going on a cruise for a week so they broke it up into mini sessions which worked out a lot better for the ymca worked out a lot better for the parent and you know it just it was better for everybody to do it that way i don't know whether he's doing it that way this year but you know he does not want to change something that's not broke

and 96 weeks online, so that also opens up. Yes, thank goodness.

Yeah, I heard last night at the event last night that Denise has taken the babies to the Mommy and Me classes. Denise, know that? Over in the upper room at the youth community center. So she said it was a great and lovely event. Glad to see it's being utilized. Community Center trellis, is that the, I saw that being installed.

Yeah, so I can give you an update on that. So both the east and the north trellises, the shells are installed, meaning the footers are laid, the actual structure is in, in both places. So the only impediment from progressing the project to completion is there was a snafu with some kind of paint that was special for the project that the supplier had something happen. And so that pushed. the whole system back until they can get the replacement, which has to come from overseas. And I got an update on that earlier today. As it stands now, the trellises are expected to be done before the end of June, and that includes basically all the siding and the lighting, and we're finishing up with the base and the footers already, so that's pretty much done. So I think they'll be available for use, but they won't be completed before the end of June and time for the 4th of July event. Okay.

Will the, on the north end, will that be taken down? The canopy that's there now? You didn't go by. They're gone.

Oh. It's been gone for a while. I was here.

The construction project, are they going to go any further? We discussed this years ago when they were talking about that netting and the barrier is going to be higher than it is.

Yeah, I know. I don't believe they need to. Once they start building? Yeah. They've already put in everything they need to on the south side of their property. So they're close to starting to go vertical. And there's, I don't think they need to do anything further to protect it. It's overhead protected. And they're very careful about the center. They know how special that is. And I think we're good.

Worry about storms, that's all. Well, that's a different story. Yeah. But I'm sure they're prepared just like we've had other construction projects where storms are coming and they took it all down and we're ready.

what do you know about the 4th of July except it's in July and it's the 4th it's on the 4th and it's in July and I know they have the drones and the fireworks and lasers all that is lined up it's going to be a big event as it always is and we hope to have everything ready at the center to enjoy the 4th of July there so i i know all the contracts are all ironed out working i just hope tim has swim races for the children again otherwise we will hear from somebody in the neighborhood swim races i'll make sure that's on the agenda um curiosity what is the what's the what's the life worth cost total yeah i have to run the numbers it's i know it's there's a lot of components to that cost works as a component. When you say how much, you mean all in?

It's up there. It's expensive. It's an expensive budget. Drones were exciting for a little bit. I think last year, I think, was the feedback, is the feedback still strong with the drones?

Somewhat, I understand.

Yeah, good. But I've heard They were talking about after Fourth of July last year, in different cities, that people missed the smell of fireworks. Even though we have both. The smell, the sound, the feeling of it, rather than the drone. I mean, I think it's fascinating, but it's very expensive, if I remember from last year.

Double the price of fireworks?

I think so, yeah.

It's not cheap. Is everyone doing a July 4th? Do we know if Bell Harbor is doing one as well?

I don't know what they're doing. I would imagine they are. Almost always. Most of these towns do it. The beach will do it. North Beach probably.

Do we get any funding from what used to be the surf club? They used to pay for half of it.

Really?

Well, I'll ask them. They enjoy it.

Four seasons, come on, do them. They just did a good thing for the town, so I'll see if I can ask.

Wrong meeting.

5A. 5A. Addition, bathroom addition in the Hawthorne hot lot.

5A is restroom at the hot lot.

So I've been thinking about this for quite some time. And we spoke about it not too long ago. And I think that it's definitely an agenda that should be addressed. I mean, it's a hot lot, like all the parks. And we talked about long-term vision. I mean, the community has grown significantly. There's a lot of kids on the road, there's a lot of kids utilizing these parks. They're packed, especially on the weekends. and also after school a lot of the nannies you see a lot of mothers and the nannies are out there with their children and you know you you know you spend enough time out there you think you realize that there's something really big missing here and you know i just sat there once and just started asking people what do you think's missing it feels you know missing in this park and It takes a little bit, it takes a few seconds or something, there is no bathroom there. So I think it's something we should really consider to develop something and address what the considerations are to put it in there, but it definitely is a need. You have children that need a bathroom, you have adults that need a bathroom, that they're there with kids. I mean, as a parent to unload, get your kid out of the house and finally get them to the park and only to say he needs to use the bathroom. I mean, kids are going all over the place. And then adults leave early, take their kids out of the park to run to use the bathroom. It's a problem. So we definitely want to definitely address it.

This was discussed 20 years ago. You say the town has changed. It has evolved. Well, sure. We had, my children are probably older than you, but there was a lot of children in the community, and then it all grew up, and now we're starting again, which is great. But one of the problems we brought up, the people that live in those homes don't want the bathroom there. When we developed the park, the park used to be half the size that it is now. and we expanded it, and then we expanded it more. But that was one of the kickbacks from the neighbors. Who's gonna maintain it? How often is it gonna be maintained? Who's gonna do this? I've had many, many, many, I live at a corner from the top lot. I've had many children, well my children were little, run home to go to the bathroom, not my children, but I was the closest house to where they needed to go. And I agree, I've seen the nannies. And I think it's fascinating to see all the nannies. I wish I saw more moms and dads, but I see a lot of nannies. They meet there in the morning, and then they come back at five o'clock, and it's like a social group for them. But it's, I don't know what it is.

So, like you, I have, I've seen many kids go through that park, and as you know, I live down the block, and my kids grew up at that park, and there was never a bathroom at the park. And yes, people used to do the same things back then, you know, the kids had to go, they went, wherever they went. All that being said, I did want to ask, is your vision of a bathroom like a single stall with baby changing station, something simple like that? So that if someone needed to go, there would be a place to go, not a big bathroom like we have at 96th Street by comparison. I'm just trying to gauge what the age is.

More like a family room. Like a family bathroom. Unisex. A unisex. One stall. One stall. You go in, you lock the door, you change your kid, you use the bathroom, your kid uses the bathroom, you're in it, you're out. Yeah. Okay. Easy to maintain, easy to clean. The logistics about how to get access to it, like maybe there's a keep-off system, maybe there's something that would allow, maybe it's only open during certain hours, obviously certain hours of the day it will be open and closed. But some sort of mechanism that just allows an option for people to go use a bathroom, change your kids, change your kids' diapers.

So I was going to say, believe it or not, there was a time when there was not a water fountain at that park either. And so that was then installed.

And when there was a fountain, you wouldn't drink the water. That's another story. Go ahead. I'm sorry. So yes, there would always be someone that's not happy with something. and that's a legitimate concern. I still think it's a great idea in theory. It could be good in practice. You must have ADA, so any facility has to abide by ADA, and you ought to have boys and girls bathrooms so you know not anything goes it would be you know added work for the parks and I don't know who would do a sanitation who would go does anyone open parks they come in and get trashed a couple times a day okay so it's that there's equipment today there's I think something very basic, something that's good looking, not overbearing, not some big structure, too simple. One structure, two stalls, changing table, not a lot of parts. You don't need to get into air conditioning or any of that kind of stuff. very fundamental it can be a good thing you know um i'm not against it and in europe you know you pay a dime or whatever it opens up and then it shuts up again it's a money thing yeah you get a quarter for a flush yeah security i remember now you think security was also a big discussion you know of course it's got a four-foot fence

who's for men.

And there's no one there. I've gone by there and there's teenagers hanging out. Right.

Teenagers I call every time. Teenagers aren't supposed to be in there. Supposed to be a tot lot five years and younger.

So there are reservations.

Yeah. If there is a desire to move this forward from this committee, then certainly we will take it to the commission. And if that's your recommendation. OK.

It's their decision, so that's it. Maybe times have changed. Like I say, maybe there are more modern things that that meet all the requirements that are not.

There's different ways to deal with it logistically, but first and foremost, if this committee wants to recommend it, and then if the commission wants to discuss and direct further action. Is there someone making a motion to have a bathroom placed at the top lot?

To have a bathroom placed at the top lot.

Is there a second on that?

I second.

All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Commission carries.

5B, 9373 Harding Avenue. Before we, did we acquire, what is it? 33. Did we gain any ground on getting the second home yet? Not yet. Hurry.

You're ruining my plan. All in due time.

I've talked to some neighbors and they're concerned that it's sitting there idle, waiting for action. And the fate of it, I think, is yet to be determined what the function or purpose of it will be. In the meanwhile, it does fall under the purview of Parks and Rec, I believe. Not yet. It's just town? It's just town property. Okay, it's just town property. You know, there's people that come through town. They have every right to flow through Harding. There was, I said earlier, I didn't see anyone, but I saw an abandoned city bike with objects, homeless person perhaps, or a transient, and it was there, so I think that for the benefit of the neighbors, the residents, the public, it ought to be monitored by the police. Yeah, there's a camera there. I don't know what it is. Maybe they just put like a nice fence or something so it's not so open until something happens there.

Well, the police do go by the property as part of their rounds. They're responsible to, you know, review all town property, foreign speeches,

Is it, is the building have electricity, is it air-conditioned? Is there some air running? I don't believe so. Okay, because what happens, and I know that if a building is left not maintained and it's unattended, say, Critters do move in, and they find their way in. And I love possums and squirrels and iguanas and all that, but I think the town should be sure that the facility doesn't fall into disrepair. And just running the AC at whatever, some temperature that's going to help a little bit. In the meanwhile, I want to just make sure that that asset is maintained. I think somebody's mowing the lawn or something. I don't know.

Yeah?

Just run the air, even if it's just a wall unit or whatever it may be.

Oh, that's central. It should be.

Has there been any other discussion on what property to use for, are we still out there?

We're waiting on commission direction.

Okay. I did speak to one of the commissioners about my thoughts.

Good. And then just finally, as a side thought, relative to the adjoining properties, there is development about to begin. They broke ground. The agreement that the property owners had with the developer, is that still binding for this property? I'm not sure which. So there were two houses there. They had made some agreements. There were agreements with the developer. With this developer or the previous developer? I think it's still standing. Those agreements transferred to the town when the town took over.

Are you talking about, Dave, maintaining space?

It's a bunch of seismic monitoring. That's under the code. They have to do that under the code. It's not a small thing when you're up against a big development like that, a big construction site. You want to make sure that the town asset is protected thoroughly. Again, I don't want that property to fall into disrepair.

They are not saleable. House has issues even before we took it. Yes.

We had discussed how much it would do to even utilize it to bring it up. ADA compliance, stuff like that, the money that it would cost.

Yeah, there's a lot there. The real value is the dirt.

Yeah. Jeff Rose taught me that. He says, the heck with your house. Hey, you're only, that million dollars you're gonna have for your house, that's the dirt, that's not the house. They're gonna tear that sucker down and build whatever they want in it. Why does that name sound familiar?

Because he lives here? He works here? Can I ask what properties does the town own?

What specifically?

So you're speaking about long-term vision development. I'm just curious though, what are some of the possibilities that we have? This whole property that you're in. So that this building... All the parking lots. They own the parking lots. Yes, yes. All the community center. Yes. Any land, just unoccupied land right now? That's not being used? That's not being used.

I mean, yeah, we technically own the streets.

Not the streets, I'm saying like, for example, the tennis court, the other side of the tennis court, that grass is owned by the city? No, on the south side? Yeah. No, that's Miami Beach. Miami Beach. So what could be developed outside of taking away from existing function? Or it isn't anything like, if you want to build a 2nd floor in the community center, or you have to take away a parking lot or develop it.

So, you know, 1 example, I mean, you'd have to go back to the charrette that you probably want to hear to participate in. But, you know, as an example. this parking lot just east of this building could be redeveloped as a new government center. And then this could be torn down and repurposed for a parking structure, as an example. You could repurpose parking lots for buildings. There's all kinds of things you can do. The town owns parking as you drive around, like by the show we have parking. um across the street south of 95th street the town owns that parking lot as well the town owns the back side of the post office so where the old post office was if you've been down the alley yeah so whatever for that there's a little separation you can't really see it because the post office was utilizing that for the lease on the town. But we have the backside of that property as well.

Is that lease in effect? No. It's expired? It's done. So everything that the town has has to be repurposed in order to develop it? Pretty much, pretty much.

They're always willing to, if something would come available, Like the second house, we missed the opportunity to expand the park.

Yeah, but there's always stuff that comes up now and then. And then it's just a matter of, you know, you're going to take it out.

We definitely need to think about long-term park and recreational vision for the town. This isn't growing. You've got town.

Well, certainly one thought, I don't know if it's come up here, is like an indoor facility. We don't have an indoor facility. So when I say an indoor facility, it could be used for multiple things. It could be used for full-court basketball. It could be used for gymnastics. It could be used for fitness equipment. It could be used for paddle ball or pickle ball or whatever that is. So yeah, there's all kinds of things that can be done in such a structure and not worrying about the weather.

And just the addition of that second floor. on the 96th Street Park. That was it.

To your question, correct me if I'm wrong, maybe you recall, we used to own property outside of town borders. There was a landfill or a place where we used to take our somewhere else that can... No.

We can't, theoretically, own property outside of Taliban.

Yes, Taliban should. Do we, just another question on that, and I know our meeting's going a little over time here, but the money, people have mentioned to me, and I just want to be able to be clear on this, the money that's generated from hotels tax, is that money specifically put in for hotels? these type of items that you were mentioning, development for park and recreational and things of that nature. Tourist tax.

Yeah, you're talking about the bed tax, really, and then there's an alcohol beverage tax. So those funds go into a special fund, resort tax fund, that can be used for limited purposes under Florida law. So anytime we... purpose those funds, it has to be tourism related. You follow? So if you create a venue, like the community center, that is open for tourists, some of those funds can be utilized for that purpose. If you closed the community center to tourists, then you couldn't purpose those funds that are generated from the hotels and restaurants.

So is the open to tourists the $5 fee? No, no, no.

Tourists don't pay that fee. You're talking about guests of residence, maybe, is what you're talking about.

If you're a tourist, or we say tourists are non-full-time residents.

That's correct. If they're coming here to use a hotel, let's say they want to stay at the Marriott. And they want to use the center. And they want to use the center. How do they do it? There's an arrangement how the... They have to have proof that they're staying at the hotel, and the hotel gives them that, and then they go to the center if they wanted to, to use it.

And for free of charge? Yeah. Got it. So it has to be, what about the tennis court? But it's not the tennis court. The tennis court wasn't built with those funds, right? Anything else was built with those funds?

Yeah, 96th Street Parkland. Tourists can use the bathroom at the town hall. The bathroom at the town hall. I mean, yeah, there's all kinds of ways to utilize these things. To your point, yes.

And then part of it go for the upkeep of the downtown area.

And downtown district. So there's ways legally to use those funds that The collateral benefit is to the residents too.

And the empty storefronts, the vinyl wraps, all that.

Yeah. But you're thinking the right way. So if there's a will to build it, it can be built. You know, the town has the funds to build it.

You just gotta find some property to buy to build it. I don't know what he's thinking.

Well, I don't know what he's thinking about. He's thinking about that film, I think.

Oh. The bigger project that they mentioned.

How can we move, I have to put it on the minutes then, to go to the commission, to ask them to give us a final From an engineering point of view, can the second floor be built on the community center?

I mentioned when the commissioner was talking about it, because he did bring it to the commission as a discussion item at the last meeting, but it didn't get any traction.

Would it get more traction if it came from us?

I don't know.

Put it back on there. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. No, I would like to know the answer myself.

i believe at the time the new community center was built that the understanding was that it said it was engineered for a second floor but there simply wasn't enough in the budget to put the second floor in there yeah no i i lived through that i know i know what happened yeah

something do you agree that at the time because our resident so yes and no um you know i obviously was uh advocating for the new uh community center at the time and and then after i left office um i learned that there was a hard budget five million dollars that was going to be spent on that project and so there was a vision you were here then, there was a vision to have that building be up to three stories tall. And because of the budget limitation, it just kept getting chopped to what we ended up getting. So whether to meet that $5 million, they had to get rid of the foundation to hold the second story is unknown. I wasn't involved, I have no idea.

If I'm remembering correctly, our local contractor states that it won't support it. I don't know what engineering… It's inconclusive. I can tell you it's inconclusive.

The existing building to build on top of it.

Correct. But you can imagine it would be a headache.

Realistically, that building would probably be taken down and rebuilt.

I don't think there's an appetite to go through that again. I don't think.

You'd have to close the community center at that point.

I know you guys have been living here for a very long time. I've been here since 2018. And I lived for three and a half years right next door to the Marbella. And I remember going to the community center on a Sunday and it was probably a fraction of the amount of people that were there on a Sunday. So disrupting a community center is going to be a very, very difficult challenge. We had a window with a lot less people out there.

But we went through with the 96th Street Park, for instance. It was closed. It wasn't easy. No, but the end result is people are happy. You had a sacrifice.

We lost opportunities. Don't look back.

No. The future is bright ahead.

Eyes look forward. Yes.

There you go.

Not at my age. So I would make the recommendation, if I can, to take that back to the commission to get a final result. Maybe it won't go anywhere.

You could do a final result being an engineer determination.

Can the second floor be built on the existing building? Or would you have to start from scratch?

Knowing that...

Please do this after Tim retires.

Understanding that... That might put him over the edge. But Frank, in all candor, I think it's going to take an engineer to answer that question. And I also think that... anything is possible right so even if it couldn't presently hold it without reinforcing the foundation anything is possible it just costs money and time and activation so and anything is possible um

except doing that kind of work and while the community center is open, I don't think that's possible to do that level of, you know, without closing, you know, or really disrupting the thing. So that part is less possible. So, you know, it's almost known that if things do move forward, will be without a community center for a long time. And maybe that was the whole intention of developing the south end as an alternative to the tennis court. I think some of this, so yes, let's get a definitive answer.

And I, you remember the discussion that we had with the previous commission, were you involved in anything at the tennis court? The building that's there now being torn down and a two-story building built there. With courts on top.

With courts on top. Oh, stop it. Oh, boy. To build on the tennis court?

No, the building that's there, the little shore, the shack, that would be taken down on the same footprint, a little bit, not much. A little bit. Didn't interfere with Veterans Park. And on the bottom floor was a community room. On the second floor was a gym. And on the third floor, somebody had this fantasy of pickleball hanging on million-dollar townhouses next door. It's a tiny little structure. It came out a little bit.

Listen, there was a little more to that, and you could attest that there's county properties running down the middle of that, and there's a bunch of stuff there. Just to get back to the second floor, I'm not an engineer. I don't think, but I believe that some determination can remain non-binding, perhaps, just from looking at the plants. The plants are not that old. That's a George Kouselis thing. Somebody reviewed the plants. That's just a review of plants. It doesn't have to be. We don't have to go doing core samples and things. Certainly, if the thing were to move forward, then you would actually have to prove Show that what's on paper is on the plans. So if it helps to advance the conversation, and I think that this is part of our vision moment that we may want to add to the meetings as a recurring item.

I would like, you know, because I've heard just brought up from commissioners, you know, this is something I want to, they're running on this campaign of putting back the second floor. Well, nobody can give us an answer whether it's, like I said, anything. I put a second floor in my house. Anything is possible if you've got the foundation and you've got the money.

But we'll have to, you know. When I saw that, second floor get built from the region. We used to look down onto that. I always thought it would be a great place to land helicopters. It was quite, you know.

Well, maybe Kushner will. Land his helicopter over there. Looks like a heliport. So do you want, I don't, whether it would have any more weight moving it to you guys and gals.

I mean, it was a strange item. I guess technically it did die for lack of a second. It came up in the last, like, 80 seconds of the meeting. I'm not really clear what happened. The meeting ended. And then so I guess it technically died. You know, I haven't checked the parliamentary procedure, but, you know. It would have to wait to come back.

But you could certainly make a recommendation.

You know. I'll just say, you know, some people have mentioned to me, well, what's the point of finding out if we don't have a definite plan to do anything with it? And I think that gets the issue exactly backwards. Yes. How could we ever have a plan if we didn't even know what the option was? How could we ever have a plan about the tennis center if we weren't clear what the alternative was? You know, we're in a state of ignorance that we don't have to be in, but I think you have to want to leave a state of ignorance in order to do that, and I

I don't know whether Tim has any background knowledge of that at all.

I don't think any more than anyone else does. Nothing definitive, right?

We'll let it go until September.

That's on your radar.

We got other things for the commission to ponder. Restrooms, housing projects. They got other things to ponder. Alright. Next meeting date is June 16th.

Same place, same time? That's after the commission meeting. yes it is so by then i'll be able to give you some update on what they uh direct me to do any other discussion okay our meeting can i get a motion to adjourn

Is Rosario just making a motion? And you're second?

I'm second, yes.

All those in favor?

Aye.

Meeting adjourned.