Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

This conference will now be recorded. All right, we'll call this meeting to order. Uh first one is uh invocation. Bow our heads. Lord, give us the courage to make good decisions for the residents and uh the town. Um look over us as we discuss these items tonight uh as we will do the best uh to put it in the public interest. Amen. Amen. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, next item. Uh we'll move to a public hearing. Uh we have a scheduled public hearing today. Um the public notice was put out in the Sun news on March 16th, 2025. Um it's an ordinance of the town of Sersside Beach to amend certain sections of chapter 17 zoning of the code of ordinances of the town of Surai Beach, South Carolina. Uh which affects 17395 and 17450 through 17459 which is new additions to divisions. All right, we'll open this public hearing. Uh is there any public comments? All right. No public comments. We'll move to commission comments. All right. Uh, no commission comments and no public comments. We'll close this public hearing and we'll move on to agenda approval. So, if I get a motion to approve tonight's agenda.

Mr. Chairman, I move to approve the agenda. Second. All right. Got a motion and second. Uh everyone in the grant say I. I. Anyone opposed say no.

All right. Agenda is approved. Uh next item minutes approval from March 4th, 2025. Uh minutes uh were not provided for us. Uh we are due for March 4th, March 20th and April 1st at our next meeting. So uh no action here. Uh but we will be approving March 4th, March 20th and April 1st at the next meeting. All right, moving on. Uh, number seven is public comments on agenda items. Any public comments on agenda items only? All right, no public comments. Uh, we'll move on to director's report. Uh, director David Davis had uh some other appointments and stuff to take care of today, so she won't be attending tonight. Um, I will tell you that I have been in discussion with director Davis around uh what the director support would look like. she has been providing a little information. Her director support to council has also uh been a little more broad. Uh so I think we'll start getting some more information. But I did review through our ordinances and uh there's a few things that the director should be reporting out to the commission uh per uh periodically. Um it's uh any minor subdivisions have been apply applied or approved during the month. Uh that's 15331. Also, if there's any major subdivisions applied or approved during the month, um she should be uh letting us know that. And then also, if there's any have been any moda modifications to the previously approved preliminary platform, um have there been any public projects approved uh to be reviewed by the commission? 15521 states that the commission should uh review all new public major utilities, public parks, public buildings, public grounds, and public or private open spacings. And then uh move on to 15343. Uh there should be have there been any

appeals requested for this month and any appeals towards chapter 15. Uh the appeals should be coming to the planning commission, not the boring zoning appeals. And I know we talked a lot about code enforcement, everything there. Uh, I've been asking Director Davis to make sure staff's capturing any kind of uh uh issues or concerns they're having with enforcing ordin ordinances or if we're having multiple complaints and stuff for certain items uh so that when we do review uh certain sections and ordinances, uh we'll have that data to be able to make the best decision and make the best recommendation. town council and then of course uh she's supposed to be providing the training courses and opportunities and training uh dates and uh training due for each of the commission. Any questions or anything on that? All right. Next item move on to business items. Um and be letter A decision on a public hearing.

Mr. Chair. Yes, ma'am. I move that we discussed tonight but defer any vote on the uh on approving the vape shop ordinance until we're able to thoroughly check the language uh due to some administrative confusion. We've had about four or five different versions in the last week and uh the the one on the the one attached to the agenda seems to have missed some of the changes we wanted to make from the workshop and I'd like to give us time to uh review the printed version carefully before we vote on it. Okay. So, you're mo you're pretty much motioning the table uh to uh discuss but not vote. Okay. Is there a second?

I'll second. a second. Oops. So, Scott is second. Mary Ellen is a motion. Um, so any discussion on that? I'm assuming we would have to have discussion in this portion. Um, because we table it, then it's going to be tabled. I I understand that uh the 180 days is still noted in here and I think we were reflecting to change that to the next annual business license. Uh Carolyn, I believe you had a few uh changes in this correct or

uh I did. Um, uh, what I was trying to do was make, uh, changes that would, um, reflect what we had talked about at our workshop meetings and, uh, I guess didn't get carried through until the draft that was circulated. Um, do you want me to spell those out? Um, so is it the section 452 and the 459? Yes.

Okay. Um, I'll read them for us just so they're in the record and so we can make sure. And I also printed this off so when I send my recap to Director Davis, um, she'll have these as well so we'll make sure they're in the next proposal. Um so Carolyn is looking to uh uh change the language in 17452 uh to any can of dispensing business, smoke shop or tobacco store in operation at the time of this division adoption shall be deemed a non-conforming use and shall have 180 days calendar days from the date of such adoption to conform to the provisions of this division or become exempt from its requirements as provided in section 459. and she would like to replace that uh with any cannab cannabis dispensing business, smoke shop or tobacco tobacco store in operation at the time of this division adoption shall be deemed a norm conforming use and shall comply with all provisions of this division at the time of its next annual business license renewal or by the time of such renewal become exempt from the requirements of this division as provided the 17459. So, if I capture what that change is, uh, Caroline, it's just basically taking the 180 days out and stating the next annual business license renewal. Correct.

Yes. When we had our workshop, we focused on the exemption language as taking the 180 days out and uh, director Davis was going to check as to what the appropriate time frame would be. And so she came back in uh the draft that was circulated as saying the next uh annual business license renewal. And so then we had a tension between the two provisions. The one provision still had the 180 days and the other had been changed to the next annual business license renewal. And um because we had discussed the idea of changing the 180 days, I thought we needed to change the 180 days in section 17452D.

Okay. Is there any other discussion or comments around this request to change over on the lines or Shannon?

Yes, ma'am. I'd also like to bring up that in glancing through the the use table, which is that long complicated thing that lists every type of business, that some of the references that are currently enforced to 396.8, which puts them on off the frontage on keeps them off of business 17. Some of those references have disappeared from the current draft. And I and then for businesses that have nothing to do with vape shops, I think we need to go over that use chart or use table with a fine tooth comb just make sure what's disappeared and what hasn't before we approve it. Okay.

Any other comment or anything around uh the amendment that Caroline's mentioning for 17452 17459 sorry. Uh so the next one um 17459 uh says shall be amended by modifying language in a subsection B to read as follows. If a business desires to be exempt from the requirements of this division but does not meet the requirements for the exemption as of the date of adoption of this division, the business shall have until uh its next annual business license to satisfy the requirements for exemption. Otherwise, the cannabis dispensing business, smoke shop, and or tobacco stores shall at the time of that renewal comply with all provisions of this division. Uh so it looks like uh Carolyn's suggestion on that is to uh remove the and add its Daniel or I believe it's Daniel next annual business license. And then also she's looking to remove at their next annual business license. And uh she pretty pretty much moved that forward in the the sentence itself. And I think she did that just to kind of uh keep it uh aligned with the other ver verbiage in the ordinance. I believe

Mr. chairman. I also did it because I was not clear as to whether the language that was circulated would give the business another round uh before it had to comply. It it was um ambiguous to me as to whether or not it would be at that at the same time line or did that give them an extra year to um comply if they couldn't meet the exemption. I just wasn't clear on that. So, I thought I was trying to clarify that.

Yeah, I like your modification myself does. So, thank you. Any other comment or uh suggestion, modification, anything to that? All right, I'll provide both of those recommendations uh to uh Director Davis. So, we'll get that enter that. Any other comments or anything inside of this as well? I've got one additional one, Mr. Chair.

Okay. In 17453A, we are in this draft. We're still referencing Sandy Lane. And when we met with the attorney, we had two viable options. The first one was to create an entirely new zone, which Sandy Lane could be in. The second option, which we're pursuing, is to mirror sexually oriented businesses. What was not an option was to list out a specific street name. Actually, the attorney said that's a nogo that won't fly or hold up. So being that we are putting the 1500 ft restriction between a public park, playground, public use, there is no place on Sandy Lane that a vape shop could go. So basically we're saying you have to be on Sandy Lane and meet these requirements. That's a unsolvable equation. If we remove Sandy Lane from the language and stick with the 1500 foot requirement across the nine different uh facets of where someone could land, that still leaves a couple of spots in town where a big shop could be located. the furthest west portion of what was uh the water park. There is another spot the furthest town furthest spot on Glint Bay Road the town owns and I thought there was a third spot but I went and measured again just on GIS and uh so it looks to me that creates two openings. We can't create an ordinance that says you can only be here and and if here doesn't exist, then we're out of business, right? So,

yeah. Um, so you're recommended not to include Sandy Lane. That's basically what you're asking. Uh, yes. That that's the direction of the attorney. And if this is presented to council and council asked the attorney to weigh in, I would suspect the attorney would say the same thing. Okay. Um, I believe we had uh quite a bit of conversation at the last meeting on March 20th around the workshop and I think this particular item. Was there any context? I believe Caroline and somebody else was pushing for Sandy Lane possibly. Do do y'all have any context of why we kept that last? Mr. Chair. Yes, ma'am.

The only thing I can contribute is I I believe 396.8 names Sandy Lane for other types of businesses. And I know we don't want to get off past interchanging eight other businesses while we're at it, but we need to keep that in mind. And I'm thinking almost specifically about the attempt to put the storage unit on business 17 that failed and we went jumped through all kinds of hoops to say they couldn't do that. And if we remove the wrong reference and the wrong column, we're going to have it right back again. Okay.

Any other uh comments on Sandy Lane? Is everyone kind of aligned to not including that or do you have a preference? I prefer saying it attorney or not.

Any other comments? Mr. Chairman, do we know exactly what using both A and B does in terms of the availability of locations? Uh, I don't think we would be able to determine that unless we did mapping out and distance-wise and then thinking about Sandy Lane in general. If we're just including that verbage in there,

there's no part of Sandy Lane that is further than 1500 ft from public land given the town hall's right there. So, they that's the conundrum that I you raised a good point about San Die being listed as What concerns me is so we move town hall and sell that property. Things change and that could that could get us in trouble. I don't but I also don't think there's any part of Sandy Lane that's further than 1500 ft from a residence an in town residence. So if you go Popler and measure it to Sandy Lane. So there's a couple of these here. I just don't know why we're saying it in one section. We can't say it in another question. I don't want to undo what's already sent to Sandy name things like welding box and all of a sudden we've got them back on business 17 by default. Well, being that we're probably going to push this out for another meeting, uh what I will suggest here is uh we I'll just explain that we have both differencing opinions on this and that uh she probably should uh reach out to the attorney or whatever to see which one they would probably push for and then as we go to approve it, if we don't like that, uh you're more than welcome to provide a motion to amend.

I hope she points out to the attorney what some of our issues are like it says it in other parts of the ordinance. He needs the whole picture, not just depends on what she asks him.

Yep. I'll mention that as well. Um, so if I'm looking back from our workshop that was held on 320, um, I think we noted check the state law on taking morale out. Morale is still in here. So, I'm not sure if that was completed uh or if we're just moving forward with morale staying in. Uh, change parking code spaces limits in line with the parking code uh, assigned, which I believe that did date take place. uh notice of inspection. So, we wanted to align local uh or state law. Uh and I think uh that was around we were talking about being able to enter the premises I believe. Is that is that what it was? I think so.

So, I think there was difference of opinion on first amendment and all that good stuff for 14th amendment I believe. Um so, just we I think we concluded with making sure it was aligned with local and state law. Um then we were following up with business license procedures to capture the 10% sales of tobacco cannabis CBD product for businesses uh not classified as a baked tobacco cannabis but has incidental or and seller use for display and did anyone capture that in here as we all reading through it?

Mr. Chairman that language uh did not get changed. I mean, we had talked about um uh gross uh sales, I think, to mirror it to the kiosk situation. Um but it was unclear to me as to whether or not uh Director Davis talked to um the um necessary folks to determine whether or not uh it needed to change to gross sales or it could stay at annual revenue. It just wasn't clear from the draft whether or not that uh was an issue that had been um resolved or overlooked.

Yeah. And I think there were also a question around uh if it was not I guess a vape tobacco. I think we were trying to capture some way to be able to limit them to a certain square footage, but I think we were inquiring with business license if they could also or have a way to capture uh the the percentage of sales for the the tobacco equipment that's specified in this division, I believe. Is that correct?

Yes. We thought we wanted to keep both, but were we measuring uh on the um sales or revenues on the on the right basis? Um something that was already um reported or could be known to the town.

Uh I actually have an email out to Director Davis and the business loss department. try to get some clarity on if that's even a possibility to be able to capture the the certain products sales or their estimated gross sales annually. So, uh in my past conversations with them, I believe what happens is they bring their tax return or something or whatever they fought for the taxes and that's what they go for for the following year, I believe. So, but we'll get some more follow up on that. Uh other item um was update 17395 use chart to reflect the new changes and return original restrictions. We put a lot of emphasis on making sure we return the use chart to use chart to the the original and enacted use chart uh that included the 17396.8 I believe. Uh but of course that didn't happen. So uh now we'll have to go back through the use chart. We want to make sure that it's uh the existing use use chart that's uh enacted uh by ordinance and then uh what we're going to do is just modify those to include the baby tobacco shop and then we'll add the classifications and this new division as uh the requirements for that.

Sure. Yes, ma'am. Those references are in the currently codified ordinance. It just disappeared from several of the drafts we're trying to work with. I need to make sure they get reinstated.

Okay. Uh and that's all the notes I have for the the workshop that I had sent uh Director Davis after the workshop. So, any other uh modifications, concerns, anything we'd like to see in the next draft? Mr. Chairman, is it necessary to redo the whole use table or can you just have a line that is an amendment that relates to the uh cannabis and vape vape shops. So that uh then the issue of whether or not everything remains the same um is is not uh really of a concern and it doesn't require somebody, you know, comparing one versus the other. Yeah, I mean it's a possibility, but what I can tell you is when I was reviewing the use chart that was in our first uh package, um I had even noticed that there were more edits to that that excluded certain uh articles that weren't even in to it for 73 science. So, my preference would to be because I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to take it and I'm going to get an old version and a new version. I'm going to sit side by side and make sure it's captured exactly how it's supposed to be. Uh but yeah, I mean it's possible that she can do it that way. Absolutely. But I would visually like to see it as well just to make sure we're proving what it is.

Okay. Any other comments? All right. So, we got a motion to uh table this to our next meeting which we will uh get another draft on this. I will provide these um suggestions to director Davis. uh should be able to give us another proposal. Um I think that'll probably be at our workshop uh I believe uh and then we'll go from there. So got a motion and second. Everyone in Grant say I. I. Anyone opposed say no.

All right. All right. Next item is planning commission bylaws. I'll try to capture everybody's comments. Uh when we were reviewing this, uh we've been working on bylaw for quite some time. There's a 7-day requirement notice for the commission. So, if I get a motion first and a second, and then we'll have some discussion. Get a motion. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion to approve the changes conditioned on changes we make during discussion.

Okay. Get a second. Got a motion in a second. All right. Uh so we'll start discussion. Like I said, uh we started these bylaws a long time ago. Um they've been modified a few times. Uh we've discussed them in a few minute few meetings. Uh it's uh pretty much minor just uh grammatical. Uh I think we've added a few sections just to as we've experienced uh no secretary stuff like that. Uh we've added in these bylaws. These bylaws are adopted by the commission itself. Uh it's nothing that goes to town council or anything. It's just basically rules uh rule of procedures for our commission alone. So uh last time they were updated was in 2017. Um, so I think Mary Ellen had some edits, uh, Scott had some ed edits, and Carolyn also made some, uh, adjustments, too. So, um, we'll start at rules. Uh, these rules of procedures are adopted pursuit to South Carolina code 629 through 350 for townside beach plan commission, which consists of seven members appointed by, uh, town council. Uh one of the modifications is to add town for council and I think that's for alignment throughout the the document I believe and then also we're going to capitalize council. Uh the addition on that portion is a planning commission recommendation should follow to town council administrator and town clerk to form of an ordinance update in loose leaf form and electronically through munic are needed at the adoption of these rules of procedure. Uh section two, the officers of the commission shall be a chairman and vice chairman elected for one-year terms at the first meeting of the mission each calendar year. Um the proposal is to remove all that section which we added for the secretary portions. Um I kind of

have concern with that just with the fact it's discussing the officers and what should happen during those elections uh at the beginning of the year. uh although we do define it in the secretary section of section five uh I think it's a good idea to leave a sec at least appointing or have a appointment of the secretary by uh administrator so Mr. here. Yes, ma'am.

I think it's actually in conflict with section five. We don't need that se section that sentence in section two. Se section five spells out who's going to be the the secretary. I I I think it's it's redundant and it conflicts. All right. Any other comments on that? All right. So, we will remove that section uh or ask for it to be removed for this adoption. Uh section three, chairman. Chairman, there's no edits or anything. Is there any changes that anybody recommends in that portion of section three chairman? All right, moving on. Section four, vice chairman. There's no changes or recommendations for that portion. And uh do y'all have any suggestions or modifications? All right. Section five. Uh the secretary shall take minutes of all meetings and hearings of the commission and maintain records pursuant to article four or section one a planning. So we're looking to remove a planning commission. Uh we're going to leave the secretary shall be uh planning building and zoning director or employee designate appointed by the town administration. But uh it looks like there's a suggestion or question here for town administration or town administrator. Uh I believe it should be administrator I believe. Any suggestions, modifications, concerns, anything extra for section five secretary? I believe it is administration because that leaves room for Heather to appoint somebody else on her staff. It leaves it a little more open. For instance, right now Angie is a member of Heather's staff.

I like it. Any other comments? All right. Section six, planning, building, and zoning director or design. uh the planning, building and zoning director or in the absence of a planning a planning, building and zoning director, the commission appoints a town staff destiny in partnership with the town administrator. Uh this was all over the place. So

I have a suggestion for somewhere else. Yeah. I mean, you put this say I don't know. I put a note. You said section six this say.

I don't know either. You know, I think what I think the addition is just confusing things. We just say the PBNC director shall do the following things blah blah blah and not worry about the off chance that that she'll be absent. I mean, it's pretty much standard procedure that they'll figure out who's going to fill in for her. I think it's just making it more complicated and but not she couldn't be here tonight but Melody brought that up too. All right. Any other um comments, Mr. Chairman? Yes, sir.

The actual title of the director is planning, building, and zoning director. Yes. Is that the the actual title? Yeah. Yes. All right. I I just noticed that that we refer to that person in some of that previous document we were working on. It just says planning director. I think it would be better to be precise by replacing that planning director like in the uh 17393 classification of uses. That's the first one I that's the last one I saw. There may be others with that actual title. So um so that it's not ambiguous.

Um I'll just say that there's many uh titles that call out that particular official. Uh so and a lot of our ordinance it calls out a director uh development administrator. So that's also PBZ director and zoning administrator. So there's definitely different other titles and in those each chapters it's defined as uh zoning uh development administrator. It's defined in those definitions. I didn't mean to open up that big can of worms but

yeah but I mean if if we can align on something going forward I'm open to it. Uh but I just know in reading those chapters and multiple titles in each one of so zoning of course would be chapter 17 uh your building administrator or whatever be 15. So Mr. Chair.

Yes sir. Um, you know, typically in a contract or in a proposal, um, you know, at the beginning of the proposal or contractor offer, you say, um, let's say it's a buyer, seller, um, you know, this person from here on out will be considered this. Maybe we could do something to that effect where we could say um you know the planning building in uh the planning building and zoning director which will be referred to as the PB&Z director or something simple so that throughout the you know the context of the entire pages it'll be I think simpler straight more straightforward you don't have to write out all these letters and it's paperwork reduction act. Okay. Uh so if we take out the the added addition, it would state the planning, building and zoning director or design shall transmit or are we looking to take down design too? The planning, building and zoning director, design or design shall transmit reports and recommendations of the commission to council, assist the chairman on preparation of the agenda, and provide meeting notices for all meetings, maintain commission records as public records, attend the commission correspondence, and submit monthly report to the commission on ongoing projects issues pertaining to the planning issues. And then on go on goes to say the planning, building and zoning director design shall maintain a list of training options available to the commissioners and a record of each commissioner's compliance with training requirements.

Mr. Chair. Yes, ma'am. I have no problem with leaving or designate in there. I I just don't want to go down the rabbit hole of who would appoint the designate. I think that's getting too complicated and we're boxing ourselves in. So you're looking to just leave the planning building zoning director and no design or or designate shall blah blah blah. We don't need all this stuff about in her absence with the point. Yeah, that's what I think that's a radical. Yeah, that's what we were looking to do. Just take the addition out. Yeah. But you're looking you're saying that you're okay with the planning building and zoning director or designate shall transmit? Yeah.

Anyone uh want something different than that? anything uh in the rest of that section six. Theoretically she you know in a perfect world she might have an assistant in a year from now and and that assistant would be tasked with supporting the planning chemistry. We don't have to rewrite it based on that. Okay.

All right. Uh we'll move on to article two meetings section one time and place. An annual schedule of the meeting shall be published and posted as pursuant to the freedom information act South Carolina code. Uh and special meetings may be called by the chairman upon 24 hours notice posted and delivered to all. And there's addition here all members and posted on a bulleted board in publicly accessessible place at the office of the meeting place of the commission and on the public website maintained by the town body with notice to notifying local news media title 30 public records 30 40 80 meeting shall be held at 6 p.m. unless otherwise notified and shall be held at the place stated in the notice. All commission meetings shall be open to the public.

Mr. Chair. Yes, ma'am. I'm going to be a nuisance again. Scott, I'd like to leave the first sentence and the last. I I think if we just say in accordance with the Freedom of Information Act, period, all that language after that is in the Freedom of Information Act, is it not? Yes. So, we're just And if they change Freedom, if they change Title 30, we've got to change our bylaws. Yeah. So, I I would stop after uh deliver two. Yeah. In accordance with 30-80 special even special meetings. I'm sure that's probably in the in title 30, isn't it?

I just don't think we need to repeat any any title 30 language. We need to meet in accordance with the Freedom of Information Act, which is title 30 whatever.

Okay. Um, and the same thing goes to the second the section two is the same thing. You're trying to paraphrase it and that's how we capt. So it says an annual scheduled meeting shall be published and post posted pursuant to the freedom of information act South Carolina code 8348A and C. Special meetings may be called by the chairman upon 24 hours notice, posted and delivered to all members of the commission. And we'll take out the rest. See that language about public body? I know that comes from the state law. It does.

I don't think we need to say it all over again. So we will say uh and delivered to all members of the commission and the meeting shall be held at 6 pm unless otherwise notified and shall be held place stated in notice. All commission meetings shall be open to the public. Yeah. Then section two pretty much the same thing. Don't don't paraphrase anything that's in title 30. Any other comments on section one before move to Mr. Chairman? Yes sir. Uh, did we want to add minimum 24 hours notice or is upon 24 hours notice sufficient? What does the state law say? I don't know.

Well, it says 24 hours, but I don't know if it says minimum or not. Do we modify state law? No, but I I don't know the answer to that. Is it You don't think it says minimum or does it say upon? I I think it if we say in accordance with state law, we don't need to worry about it. Okay. Just the state law could change. Sure. Yeah, I like that.

All right. Any other comment? Uh, section two, agenda and notices. A written agenda shall be furnished to each member of the commission and as soon as possible, but no event less than 24 hours prior to each meeting. Discussion items may be added to the agenda at a meeting by majority vote. Any comments, suggestions, modifications? Same argument I already gave. I second that.

All right, we'll move on to uh section three agenda items. Um looks like we've uh renumbered them and then we added the invocation to two which has not been a part of our agenda item to four. So uh I think if we're going to continue that should be added in there. Any comments? Uh, next item. Next item is section four, quorum majority. There's no edits or anything to that or is anybody want to do with something with that section? Section five, rules of order. Uh so we last meeting or a few meetings ago we discussed the most current edition of Robert's rules of order shall govern the conduct of meetings except as otherwise provided these rules of procedure. Any changes?

All right. Next one is section six voting. We don't have any uh suggestions or changes in that. Everyone good with that one? Section seven, conduct says, "No person shall speak at the commission meeting unless recognized by to speak by the chair. Persons wishing to speak shall be deemed recognized by the chair after they come to uh the lectern and identify themselves upon an invitation by chair to address the commission section seven.

Yeah, seven conduct. So you added it is addition. Sorry. Okay. Yeah, it's not on this copy, Mr. Chairman. Yes, ma'am. I suggested this change because my notes from our last session said we should fix this language but there was no great discussion of how it should be fixed. Okay. And um I was just suggesting this as the fix because otherwise it really didn't make a lot of sense to me. Um where you had an exception for public hearing. Okay. Mr. Chair.

Yes, ma'am. It seems to me that the item for public comments, two items on the agenda for public comments, they're an invitation, are they not? If there's an opening for public comments, that's my invitation to address the commission.

Mr. Chairman, yes, ma'am.

I would agree with that. I thought though that this provision was meaning to deal with um really decorum during the meetings and that somebody shouldn't uh shout from the back row that um expecting that that's a way to properly address the commission. uh that uh it's really meant to keep uh the um audience uh silent until the chair specifically recognized somebody to uh to speak. But I was not clear where where this was coming from in the in the first place. So, I just suggested a a way to make it deal with at least the situation I was perceiving that it was intended to deal with.

Do we hear Caroline's suggestion again? I I tend to agree with her that this was intended for decorum and not yelling from the back of the room, but we don't have her suggested version here. So um um it says no person shall speak at a commission meeting or hearing unless recognized to speak by the chair. Persons wishing to speak shall be deemed recognized by the chair after they come to the lectern and identify themselves upon an invitation by the chair to address the commission. I like that. I think Mr.

Chair Y is it just recognized by the chair is said like two or three times. I don't know if it as the wording a little bit redundant but maybe it needs to be very well done though. I don't I'm not criticizing the idea. Okay. Do you have a suggestion to change it? I don't because I don't have it in front of me as difficult. I'm just saying to consider rewarding it to take out redundancy um or you know saying things over and over again or repeating yourself which I just did. I repeated myself and said Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir.

Taking out the second U line would work if it just read persons wishing to speak uh shall come to the lectern and identify themselves upon an invitation by the chair to address the commission. So, as I understand it, you would say now we're going to have public comment and that would be the invitation for someone to approach the lectern and identify themselves and address the commission. Perfect.

So, can you uh state that all in the same sentence once again a simplified version? And what I'll do is I'll just go ahead and move on. If you want to take that on for a second, we'll come back to it. I think I can do it. Okay. No person shall speak at a commission meeting or hearing unless recognized to speak by the chair. Persons wishing to speak shall come to the lectern and identify themselves upon an invitation by the chair to address the commission.

Okay. Well, that was pretty easy. Uh, no person shall speak at a commission meeting or hearing unless recognized to speak by the chair. Persons wishing to speak shall come to the lectern and identify themselves upon an invitation by the chair to address the commission. Yes. Or are we removing the upon an invitation by the chair to address the commission? The only way you're allowed to speak is to walk up to the podium and identify yourself, Mr. Chairman. Yes, ma'am.

But you only want that to happen when the chair says we're opening the the floor or whatever for public comment. So, um

I kind of like it too just for the fact it's requiring if somebody's going to talk even if they're talking in the chairs I mean they should have to come to podium to make sure that we're reporting that as well. So I kind of like believe like that. Any other suggestions? Um if you'd like to see that edit uh before we move on to a vote, I will share my paperwork. Um section 8 public comments. I think the only thing we were going to change is uh the five minutes per speaker. We currently have three minutes. We're going to change it to five to be aligned with council. Um I think that's all the changes in that public comments. Any other suggestion, modifications? All right. Uh we're moving on to public comments general. Uh I think um there were quite a bit of conversation I believe I had captured uh from our notes at our last meeting. Um the general states uh citizens guest comments are limited to five minutes per speaker with no more than three speakers. Uh and then it looks like we're looking to modify addressing the same position on the subject but continue discussion shall be the discretion of the chair. So I think we'll there were some comments around uh allowing uh a certain amount of opposing views as well. I believe that was the suggestion. Yes. If we say same position that means either side

three speakers on either side. Yeah. So no more than three speakers addressing the same position on the subject but continued discussion shall be discussion of the chair like you did when we had a full house and we needed to defuse some.

All right. Any other suggestion modification? Everyone like that language? All right, moving on to written comments. Uh I think uh the only modifications here is a commission will accept written comments on any matters pertaining to the planning and zoning. Written comments must be received no later than 24 hours in advance of the meeting during which the writer wishes to comment. Comments must be sent either via US mail to the planning commission uh copying planning, building and zoning director. Uh, we updated the address to the new address surfside beach South Carolina 29575 or email the town clerk at surfside beach.org. The planning building and zoning director shall distribute uh such written comments to commissions commissioners in advance of the meeting. Uh, and I believe the only questionable item I would have is the town clerk's email and not the planning building and zoning.

Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. I have a slight suggestion for a change with the reliability of US mail. I would suggest that it be either sent by mail or delivered to the planning uh building and zoning director's office. Mailed or hand carried or basically hand carried. Yes. So, are we pretty much limiting to someone visiting town hall of what happens if uh you're a second homeowner or something like that and want

Well, then then they have email or US mail. But, I mean, for local residents that can't speak but want to provide written comments, they can always drop it off at the office. A lot of people don't email Yeah. And a lot of people don't. Okay. What is what is the suggest then?

I'd say uh via US mail or hand delivered or something to that effect to the planning commission care of blah blah blah. Okay. So the commission will accept written comments on any matter pertaining to the planning zoning. Written comments must be received no later than 24 hours in advance of the meeting during which the writer wishes to comment. Comments must be sent either via US mail or hand delivered to the planning commission or the planning building and zoning uh director and address. The rest of it looks good.

Why are we emailing the town clerk when we're doing everything else to the PBNC director? Why not use I think that's just crazy. I think that was just left in there from the last time. I think so, too. I think it ought to all be to the same person. Mr. Chair. Yes, ma'am. Yes. Can we clarify? Are we are we saying one US mail, two hand delivered, and three email? All three options. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Just making sure. As far as the town clerk, uh, I've had it, my experience has been I've always sent the mail to the town clerk and asked her to forward it, uh, print it out and forward it to the, uh, who I wanted it to go to, or I've done it often. Not always, but just doesn't doesn't seem necessary to confuse people. Yeah. No, I agree with you there. especially well the town clerk no longer supports the planning commission. She used to be the secretary. That's part of the difference. The other thing is is probably that email doesn't change even though the staff changed.

Yeah. So we could put Yes, sir. How many written comments have we gotten in the last year? Well, I think I made a comment in the last meeting around I mean public doesn't even understand that's an option. I'm sure they understand, but nobody's pushing written comments or pushing for comments to be received in at all. So, are you looking to just swap this whole section or uh No, it just feels like we're beating up.

Well, [Music] I I agree. You have something you want to send, mail it, drop it off town hall, email some. after I was thinking about too and uh Mr. McKeen mentioned it, but uh I mean I I agree. So that town clerk probably doesn't change. It's not identified by name. Heather Davis at Surfside Beach does. So So how is the town clerk going to know what she's supposed to do with it? If it doesn't if if the email doesn't spell out, this is for the planning commission.

No. Okay. Mr. Chair, sorry. I mean, this is under planning commission rules of procedure. So, these are basically our own rules. You think anybody else is going to read this and go by this and say, "Oh, that's the email to go to." This is true. I'm not sure everybody on town council knows we have bylaws, right? So, I mean, I I'll kind of add to Alex's idea. This kind of beating the horse a little bit.

So, I still need the final verdict, though. If we're going to approve these, I need it in the version that we're going to be acceptable. Uh I mean, we could leave the town clerk as it's been since 2017 or Mr. Chair. Yes, sir. I I would suggest email the town. No, no email address. just and I mean the our the address is you know the actual tangible address is in there which you know if it changes this change but I think people can figure out how they email the town.

Why don't we just say well accept written comments and we need them 24 hours in advance we don't need to go through all this very these various ways they can get them to us. If they want to comment bad enough they'll either show up or they'll get something written to us. All right, we are kind of looking. Mr. Chair,

can I suggest leaving it at the town clerk because again some of the me the emails get diverted to different places. A lady said she sent something to me today like two weeks ago because it went to the surfside beach.org and it hasn't gotten to me. So at least I think Miss Sher would know or whoever is in that position would know where to send it for that. Okay. Thank you.

All right. We're still stuck. But the commission will set written comments on any matter pertaining to the planning zoning. Written comments must be received in no later than 24 hours advance of the meeting during which the writer wish comment comments must be sent either via US mail or hand delivered to the planning commission copying of the planning building and zoning director

care of care of planning building and zoning uh director 210 US highway 17 southside beach South Carolina 29575 or email to the town park at surfside beach.org. The PBNC director shall dis distribute each written comments to the commissioners in advance of the meeting. Uh I'm just going to say let's leave it at the town clerk. Uh I think part of the clerk's responsibility is to de or deliver. Yeah. Deliver the mail. Are we good with that? Yes.

All right. Next item. Section nine, executive session. Commission shall only enter into executive session or close meeting to receive legal advice. No voting or formal action may be taken in executive session. Our requirements of South Carolina Freedom of Information shall be uh to

adhere to any changes in that section. All right. I think the next one is article three and we don't have much changes. So, uh, if you have any changes in these sections, uh, after we identify these other two, uh, it looks like we've, uh, section two procedures, um, A and B. I think we've just, uh, recommended putting an A and B on there, uh, just to, uh, divide those from a regular public hearing and then also hearing somebody has applied for a public hearing at home. And there's no changes in the rest of that section. Any suggestions, modifications to any one of those sections on that page?

Are we to the end yet? We're about there. We're on the last page now. I don't know why Sherry McInn is involved in this. Yep. She the town clerk was but no longer is. All right. So, going to the last page. I think the only uh edits we have there is section two of the adoption. We added the new date of April 1st, 2025. Uh, and then adopt and approved. We changed those dates. And then, uh, Sher Medina is down there at the end. Uh, I mean, I don't she's not the secretary of the planning commission.

Correct. So, we'll put Angie's name here. It's not like it has to be notorized or anything. anyone of authority. All right. Any suggestions or anything to those other items? Mr. Chairman? Yes, ma'am.

Uh, as you might have noticed, I'm a stickler for things being consistent through a document. Um it just seems to me that we should um make sure that uh we're consistent throughout and that uh if we're referring to the commission that we capitalize the commission because it's capitalized in some places but not in others. Uh and same thing with the chair or the chairman. Uh it just seems to me that we should um make a a real habit of um having those types of consistencies in the documents we adopt.

Are you saying there's still sections or items in here that need that modification? I I am uh we were just uh at 8C and uh if you look at 8C where we were talking about the written comments it begins with the commission where commission is lowercase the next section section nine begins with the commission and commission is uppercase. Okay. I I just uh uh do we have a proof reading function somewhere? You're absolutely correct. I like that. Yeah.

Your hair will fall out if you start reading more of the red. You got it over here. You got it in section 4, article five. Also, there's a lot of So, what I would suggest, Caroline, is uh we've been working on this a long time. Um, I think we should go ahead and uh the motion's been to approve these uh with the the items that we did. Again, if we need to bring it back up at a future date to correct the grammatical item, I think we can do that as well. And uh if you want to task that for yourself to uh modify, make the changes and we review it, it'll be an easy transition as long as it's provided to commission in seven days notice.

Okay, I'm happy to do that. Be careful. Be careful. Be careful what you complain about because then you get the assignment. I get it. Well, I I appreciate your attention to detail. And uh I say we all all have a different uh but being that we've done modified these like 12 different times, discussed them at 15 different meetings, and we're still here. Uh I think I think that's the route. So any other suggestion, modifications before we move on to a vote?

All righty. So, we have a motion to approve these with the notated changes of tonight's discussion, which I have notated here. Uh, and I'll make sure those are also provided to the commission if there's any other concerns. But, uh, uh, everyone in the green say I. I. Anyone opposed say no. All right. Motion pass and bylaws are adopted. for the grammatical items. Um, she's just going to take the grammatical on herself and then we'll we'll present her changes to the petition for another another option.

I in a perfect world it would come to us grammatically correct in the first place. All right, we'll move on to uh number 10 which is chapter 17 ordinance language article 9 design overlay district. Uh again there was a few commission comments around uh the only edits we see on this is uh what we had uh discussed with the business committee and their proposals as well. Keep in mind we're actually reviewing uh the whole section of design over overlay to district. Um this will be our next uh workshop item as well. So basically just wanted to add it as a discussion item today uh so that we can continue conversation and prepare us for our workshop and then uh the next steps and getting a recommendation for this as well.

Mr. shares the link on the agenda that's published online, the latest version of the document. I think the link that's published online is this version here with the business committee's modifications or recommendations on it. One consideration, it's the same one we talked about previous meeting is 17903 section G still says without power. So the reference is that the single building or 50% of the script center has been vacant without power for over 180 days. I think that power stipulation was yeah unnecessary comp unnecessarily complicated. Okay.

I think we talked about that a little bit. So we couldn't determine I think we asked the question can you call Sandy and Cooper and tell when the power's out and also I think you raised a question for the fact that it could create opportunities for business to uh be disconnected up to a certain level of days and then turn around and before meeting that uh uh power uh restriction go get power again it starts all over. So I think that's what you were discussing. So yes so that is still unanswered by staff. Is that where we are right now?

Yeah. But this is just a recommendation from the uh the business committee. So what I I would suggest us doing is continue with the business committee's proposals. Uh we provide the commission's proposals. Staff provides their proposals and then when we have a workshop, we'll be able to review all those proposals and then add the elements and delete the elements that we're not looking to recommend. But I think like I mentioned it's what our what our discussion is today is just to overview the design overlay trigger any kind of discussion around it. One of the discussions I have is change of ownership. I think I asked director Davis last meeting uh when we were discussing design or actually when the business committee uh was here we asked like how does the town know when a business is sold? I think Freddy's is for sale currently. Uh what happens? who knows that that's changing an owner or triggers this design overlay and I think the answer was we don't know.

Unless somebody notices and sends a note to PBNC department, how are they going to know a real real estate transaction happen? And my concern with that is if that's the case and the town has no way either we need to create a way for the town to recognize or identify the change in ownership or we shouldn't have a change in ownership inside of the ordinance to begin with. Mr. chair, they're supposed to get a a business license. And at that time, we do a code um inspection, the code enforcement or the the building official, building inspector and fire marshall. They go out and make sure that the business is up to code so that they can reopen and that's where we catch it at that time.

Okay. Is there any time that a business owner can continue the license that they already have under a do they have to come and get it under their new name of the owner or can they can do they continue uh the license you're supposed to have a new a new license say for instance you're in partnership and one partner pulls out then the other one has to come back in I have a question yes ma'am in the particular case you mentioned curside Freddy's there is a billboard board involved. We have a sign ordinance that says when it changes ownership, the billboard goes. Is Angie, do you think that it's going to be caught in a routine business license change? The billboard?

Yeah, I kind of doubt it. Is that on top? Is that in their parking lot? Yeah, it's over. It's right over their building. Yeah, we all know. It's kind of an unusual thing. I think we've only got a few left in town, but we've got all these ordinances saying billboards are going to die on this date or on this occasion and it's not something that a routine building inspector inspector is going to trip over.

And Larry, I'll just call out as you could see in the definitions of this design overlay, it says development director, the director of the town of Sur Beach Planning, building and zoning department and his destiny shall serve as the development administrator. So yeah, I I fully agree with you. I wish we were all aligned, but uh in every it seems like in every division and section they're called something different. So

um I think they proposed the ordinary ordinary maintenance. Of course, we'll leave that in the proposal in the workshop and we'll discuss that and remove anything or modify that for the thing. Um it talks about gable roofs, hip roofs, uh those items as well. Uh I think uh the business committee added renovation definition uh to that as well. One of my concerns was um we adopted the international building codes. Uh so some of that language uh conflicts each other because uh there's different definitions that identify renovations and stuff in the international building code and if we've adopted that it should either match or we should use the international building code.

Mr. Chairman.

Yes sir. to add to what you were saying. I didn't know um yeah this definition I don't know where it comes from. uh you know, I looked up some of the uh South Carolina code and it goes into great detail of what a renovation is or non-structural renovation. Um and specifically, uh you know, th this is very very broad in general involving updating, restyling. You know, it it really, you know, as a business owner, any kind of owner, there's several different ways that you might say, well, this is a nonstructural renovation or this is just maintenance. I mean uh typically and you know researching what uh some of the state code is and there's also in the state code there is uh residential state code and there's commercial and it gets complex and uh so in uh you know they're they're they're talking about you know uh nonstructural renovations include interior and exterior tasks such as installing, remodeling and refinishing various building elements like acoustic ceiling systems, drywall flooring excluding carpet. So I think carpet is more of a upkeep or you know it's just a maintenance type thing. Um and you know painting is technically I mean maybe you change a color is that renovation is that not. So, I think it would help I think businesses if we're truly businessfriendly to get specific on what this means so that they're not caught in, oh, I just repainted so I'm technically renovated without getting a, you know, any type of permit. So, so I think, you know, just consider looking deeper into this and I don't know how deep we want to go down this rabbit hole. I think uh they just suggested this uh in definition and I don't think it's captured to any other definition within their orchard but I think I think their

process is trying to get away from currently the town any renovation as far as if we put Hback in or any of those elements it's considered in the the total amount of renovation. So then it takes that total amount and then it applies it to this ordinance as well. So what they wanted to do is sort of take out the HVAC or anything that you're talking about maintenance wise and not apply to the the requirements of this. Okay. Maybe they should just add that to the next. So it's a little more, you know, specific and maybe the purpose of that, but that that's helpful. Okay.

All right. Um, next item is 17905. Um, I can go and tell you, I mean, there definitely need to be a little bit of review on the issuance of permits and certificate of occupancy because I can tell you that we've opened many businesses this year that is not complying with the design overlay. And then also, if I'm looking at this, it's stating that uh any existing building having a change of use, change of ownership, and or parking areas requiring approvement shall have 60 days from the date of approval from the development director to comply with requirements of this article. And I I I feel like 60 days ain't enough to uh fully redesign a building. Uh comply with certain sections of 17 because basically what this design is not just a design overlay. It requires you to comply to 14, 15, and 17 and overlay uh in those those times. So uh for me, I just feel like 60 days is not enough time to be able to do that. So something we can think about going forward.

Mr. Chairman, do you suggest a an amount of days that you think is might be best? I'm not sure. I don't really have a construction background and I don't know how active and busy or backlog they are nowadays. I don't I don't know. So I just know I feel like 60 days is not enough.

All right. Any other things? I think we move on down to design standards. Uh there's landscape requirements, parking lot requirements, sign design standards, color schemes. Uh we currently have a color palette that is approved for C1C2. Um so it has to be that specific colors to be able to change paint colors stuff for that items. Um if they do any work in the parking lots or anything, they're required to bring it up to date. um sign design. Uh that that's that's questionable, too. If you see a lot of the new businesses now, uh it says it need to be architecturally structur structured inside of the the the design of the building, but uh I mean you can look at many signs that have been on these buildings added and I mean they they really stand out to you. So if they don't fit the building, then I mean that's not architectural. And then we may need to define what that is as well. So I think it's just a little open to uh interpretation. Um any other uh items on the I'm moving on to 17909. anything up until there that y'all have any questions or like to see or I think on the last page uh there I think uh the violations declared by misdemeanor and remedies uh I think they took the regular proposal and then the business committee provided the other sections. I think there was a lot of conversations with that as well. We wanted to make sure that it was within state law. We wanted to make sure that it was aligned with our chapter 2 administrative and penalties or chapter

1 uh penalties and our sections how we handle penalties and violations. Um so I'm sure that's something we'll have to go back to as well. Um but really just wanted to get this in front of the commission for discussion. Uh there's a lot of items in here and stuff. So I would say continue to be reviewing this. Uh we'll have a workshop this month as well. Uh and during that workshop, uh like I said, I'll ask Director Davis to make sure we have staff's uh recommendations. We'll include the business committees and then as you you guys uh propose those recommendations as well. Uh as I mentioned before, uh I I like the idea if you want to just email me or email the director your uh your modifications and not have the director put it inside of the design or the recommendation, but put it to the side. So at least we know what sections uh we're looking to modify. We'll have that visually in front of us. I think would be helpful. And I love how you do it on Word Carolyn where you put it on section. I don't know if everybody has that technology or not, but uh I like that as well, but it's not requirement. So any other questions, Mr. Chair?

Yes, sir. Uh you said we have we're having another workshop this month. Do you have a date on that yet or an idea? It'll be determined uh based on bill uh the zoning appeals. If they're not going to meet this uh month, we'll utilize their date. Um if they do have a meeting, then that'll be probably the following week on a Thursday. Mr. Chairman.

Yes, ma'am. in uh section 17911. Why uh do we have a requirement for um storm water um retention or detention ponds in um these particular areas of town? It doesn't seem to me like that really goes with the commercial area of the town. Um, I'm not for sure why it's in the the thing itself, but I would say we probably need to review chapter 14 in our flood plane ordinance and see if there's some type of requirement for these sections that may have been added in this as well. Um, good call out. I mean, I'm sure we're not going to have a huge retention pod in the middle of C1 or C2, but there we do have a few retention pods, Mr. Chairman.

Yes, sir. uh you know I'm not an engineer or anything but I I I'm thinking at this you know some of these uh buildings and the plots were were done years ago and they didn't take into consideration retention ponds and I I would I would guess that if there's a large development that it would you know certainly be the need for retention ponds with modern um building and planning and I'd also say possibly it just depends on how big the development is too. There it's probably no requirement for smaller size development or buildings. I would say something we'll have to research of course but maybe it more applies to uh something that's a little larger scale. Yes. But good content. Anything else?

All right. on my agenda now. All right, we'll move on to public comments. Any public comments?

Sean Fallon, 411 Drive North. I definitely had the wrong agenda because I thought we were talking about 411 North Oak Drive, but I'll find out why y'all didn't discuss that. Um, I heard you talking about um like the overlay and a couple concerns I have with the overlay. um especially with pups and ride, you know, that business. I don't know the exact name, but um you talked about in the overlay like the parking lot and everything where they're using part of the parking lot in their back of their building with a little gate and that's where the dogs are. So that is something I don't know if that's allowed in talk talking about an overlay and um just food for thought cuz they also got their liquor license. So I don't know if the dogs are drinking or not but just just to let you know it's kind of weird. um where the previous vape shop cuz I know we're really in getting this language down for vape shops and everything and I haven't fully researched this one either cuz I got a long a long laundry list. There's a new business going in there and it's uh Imperium Emporium.

Yeah. Antique uh memorabilia. Okay, just the stickers are all over. You can't even see through the door cuz there's so many stickers and one of the stickers happens to be dead head. So, I don't know if that's from the previous owner and they haven't cleaned it up, but if you talk about overlay, it's really not a pretty scene. Okay. Um and just and just for um FYI, you talk about the the different you know it's called commission. It's planning commission director whatever. Well, in word there's a search and replace. It's real real easy because I used to do it a lot when I did training manuals. So that's just a suggestion but we don't do the typing but it can be done. So thank you and maybe after the meeting I'll ask about this other address. Thank you.

All right. Any other public comments? All right. Uh we'll move on to commission comments. any commission comments? Um, I would like to uh just uh state that um as far as graphics on the windows or whatever, we do have an ordinance that only allows like 25% of graphics to be covered. So, it's a code code enforcement issue. Uh if they're complying with it or not, um I would say maybe not. But uh also we didn't review the lot line uh or property line adjustment for the fact the planning commission doesn't have the authority to do that. It should be presented to council as a transfer of sale property. Uh that property owner should be required to get an appraisal for the portion of land they want the rights to. Uh as we've did in the past if you can look up in the past meetings I think we did it to a owner of sitter I believe in the past that uh so basically they have to buy that right away from the town. So, we just don't allow them to use it. So, that's why we didn't do that. Any other uh commission comments? All right. Thank you'all for coming out. Um we'll get a motion to adjurnn.

Motion to got a motion tojourn from Alex. They'll add a second and Mary Ellen second. Did everyone agree and say I? Anyone opposed say no. Meeting adjourn. I got