Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

this conference will now be recorded 9 o' all right we'll call this meeting into order first uh item is invocation and I pledge allegiance Mr B thank you Father for this time that we can get together um I pray that you give us wisdom guidance um and Supernatural power to do your will in this town and in our own personal lives um we pray this all in your Mighty and Powerful name amen amen pledge allegiance I pledge algi the flag of the United States of America to the repblic for it stands Nation indivisible andice for all all right the next item is agenda approval and I'll go ahead and start um I'd like to uh make an a motion to amend tonight's agenda uh to add a business item of a moratorium extension and then also add a discussion item uh for the public hearing that we were previously scheduled to have tonight uh but it is not going to be on not agenda so we're going to allow these folks to be able to make a comment on that I'll second it all right got a motion a second any discussion all right no discussion uh everyone agree and say I I anyone opposed to say no all right agenda has been amended uh next item is minutes approval for February 4th

2025 Mr chair yes ma'am I move we approved the minutes for February 4th 2025 with the addition of some text that addresses the fact that director Davis did state that uh no drive-thru stores were allowed in either zoning three C1 or C2 except for restaurants and dry cleaners all right got a motion to amend for the addition of text from Director D uh Davis Around uh no no drive-through windows and C1 or C2 got a second second got a motion of second any discussion around that any other amendments all right everyone agree and say I I anyone oppos say now minutes posted and I'll make sure that director Davis has those adjusted um next item is public comments on agenda items uh like I said we will have a uh discussion portion here in a moment to refer to the public hearing um but anything relating to the agenda around the capital investment program design overlay for the night uh planning Planning Commission bylaws Planning Commission responsibilities are updated the language on the vape shops you're more than welcome round Stevens 42 First Avenue North Sur side Beach um I've heard some

rumors about U some of the things that uh this uh Planning and Zoning commission has uh been talking about doing and I don't know if these rumors are are true or not but uh keep in mind that the South the plan commission falls under the South Carolina uh local government comprehensive planning um planning enabling Act of 1994 under that act the Planning Commission has strict guidelines of what you can do um your job is primarily as a Planning Commission to come up with ideas for the planning of the Town long range planning far as you have a comprehensive plan matter of fact the comprehensive plan if you look at it I was former councilman my name's on that comprehensive plan as one of the councilmen I hope that what I heard is not true because I've heard that uh the Planning Commission is uh looking at possibly going out and trying to enforce the laws need I remind you a few years ago the Planning Commission took upon itself to soo down which your volunteer committee they sued the town and that entire Planning Commission was removed matter of fact I made the motion to

remov I hope that what I've heard and what I've seen is not factual if it is y'all are stepping on thin ice you have no business trying to enforce the laws are trying to go out and police the law or police any violations if that's the case I don't know but uh I was sent uh some information on that by Anonymous person they said they knew me from way back and they said uh this plan commission may be going rogue I don't no I hope you're not but if you are I I remind you that South Carolina act controls exactly what you do and you're not supposed to do anything other than what that South Carolina PL since state law supersedes all other laws especially in time of Sude you can't violate state law if you do you pay the price so keep in mind I don't know what's going to happen about this but uh I forward it on to a member of the press and let him he's going to look into it and you may be getting a telephone call thank you any other public comments around agenda [Music] it I appreciate you allowing me the few minutes to speak that your name please yeah my name is Nick mahovich 2121 16th Avenue North we are adjacent to the property that's in question for the resoning so the uh direct mix or neighbor adjacent to them

and this would affect obviously my property the most my wife and I [Music] um you know moved into this property two years ago well we we were hoping to make it a retirement home and we we ended up there because it's an R1 property adj into other R1 properties and we thought that was very valuable and um if the next property turns into an R3 is that is being proposed obviously it's going to negatively impact us we're strongly opposed to that resoning for obvious reasons um you have the noise the chaos people drinking all the time cars everywhere then they're going to build a large residential structure next to us that blocks um um the sunlight on my property half the day every single day and uh you know that that isn't what we signed up for My Neighbor Next Door he five years ago the one in question bought his property being an R1 he knew it was an R1 he he he took he's reaped the benefits of it being an R1 property and now five years later he's looking to rezone it to an R3 uh to gain money on his resale and that's really his his reason I know his property's been for sale for over six months he's had a price that an elevated price above what the general uh property values are he hasn't been getting it so now he's trying to get it reson to an R3 because he's hoping a commercial real estate company will buy it give them a premium for it and they're going to turn into a business right St to my right next door to my lot so I'm sure you know I I don't think this is a zoning problem I think it's a pricing problem on his his part and I'm sure a lot of you live in R1 zones currently in the town and I know you wouldn't be happy if the next

door neighbor put their house up for sale and reson it to an R3 and all of a sudden you have a rental property right next door you know this is a bigger picture than just me though I mean this this is a this is something should be addressed as the time as a whole because this is a domino effect this sets precedent for what can happen in the future so if this certain property is allowed to be reson as an R1 and individual parcel then the future what's going to happen with when I have an R1 property next to an R3 my property value gets greatly depreciated because who's going to want to buy a property in an R1 that's next to an R3 with the short-term rental and then I'm going to come to the board or other people going to come to the board with with similar properties they're gon to say hey I need to resol my property and on and on it goes and it's a snowball effect that ends up just there's no one no R1 properties left in the city at that point so um I I I I feel it's it's it's a real problem and I'd like to I pulled this up on the Surf Side website it's this is zoning board of appeals but it says in bold right at the end of this this is uh Four Points criteria and this is based on South Carolina law section 629 800 but I just found this interesting reasons to allow uh a a variance or rezone and right at the very end it says please note that the fact that a property may be utilized more profitably should a variance be granted may not be considered grounds for a variance and this is in bold at the very end of this this document and I really think that's what's happening here so I I appreciate you listening to me and um I hope you take what I have to say to heart and um appreciate your time thank you thank you

hey there hey how are you good I'm Kathy Kelly I live at 1216 North dog Drive um I am also a raor in town and I knew nothing of this variance until my clients sent me a letter because they live across the street from the property um and the first thing out of their mouth was oh I hope it gets resumed because maybe mine will sell better too so I know I moved to where I moved because it was an Arlon so I looked for a long time for properties and um I think if you said the presidents and give somebody you know that opportunity to make that change what's going to stop everybody else from doing it because it's just a little snowball what be said you know so um we are Surfside Beach and we're the family beach for a reason people love that our look and love the fact that there's residential homes here and they're not all shortterm because you don't find many places like that so we have something special here and let's I really hope we keep it amen thank good evening thank you for first of all sending me this letter um typically when I own property excuse me sir oh sorry yes my name is Tom Parker I live at 3111 17th Avenue North s Beach and we moved here in the fall of uh 2022 um with my family and we had been searching for a home for about three years looked at many many developments around here um we decided that surad was the place that we wanted to live based on the integrity and structure of the neighborhood um primarily in this location I also firmly object to rezoning that property from an R1 to an R3 I bought it again based on its location the quality of home the quality

of the neighborhood my backyard um does have a pool and other amenities with some high decking um I would clearly be looking at a different property behind me um if that was permitted um we have some had some issues um with some security in in the neighborhood already and I think this would just subject it to more additionally which hasn't been mentioned previously there's another vacant property right behind it and my concern is that if this is rezoned to an R3 then the likelihood of somebody else building another R1 right next to it and not asking for Theirs to be reson to an R3 would really change the construct of the entire neighborhood I spent a lot of money investing into my home and I also feel that my property value would be significantly impacted if you permit that to go from an R1 to an R3 um in which case I'll be asking for a tax rebate because of all the money I do spend yearly on my home so thank you for listening to me thank you for the the notice and and the opportunity for us to collectively discuss it thank you um yeah I'm I'm going to close public comments um I I do I do understand that multiple folks are here to talk about the public here and unfortunately it has been rescheduled to a different date I'm unsure uh we're unfamiliar with the letters uh but we were originally going to have a public hearing today around the resoning and uh what I will say is we have discussed this in January um we had a meeting that actually discussed this topic and I think a lot of uh the Commissioners may share the same interest as you guys um but we do have that on this discussion and I'll let the committee here uh make a few comments around that and uh hopefully that will satisfy you guys but we should be having a public actual public hearing related to this agenda item uh probably by the end of the month you should probably

receive another letter and also a public notice and uh look on social media from the town web page and we will make sure that you're here okay Mr chair yes ma'am I don't think that there are that many more people that want to make comments maybe you could ask how many more maybe maybe agree to let them how about show yeah so I I want to close public comments and just for the fact that I I mean typically in a public hearing the actual applicate is able to be here to hear the words and language that you're saying to I I kind of feel like unfair for them people to be able to place their case and then we also allow public comments with that so I'm going to close public comments and I hopefully you'll be satisfied with the commission's comments and our our discussion out have in a moment have one question yes yes sir I make a motion to reopen the public elments he's appealing the chair so do I got a second they came to yeah we didn't know because he flew in spent $500 to all right we'll proceed I'm just saying I mean if all your comments are going to be against the res we fully understand the public comments I mean we're we're aware we're all residents of the town uh and I think we share a similar stance on it so just keep that in mind I will proceed with the public comments but just keep that in mind can I just ask why this was postponed uh we we didn't like obvious we're all here none of us knew that like I said he flew in to be here for this meeting today and didn't get I was supposed to be in Las Vegas and I had tried to actually call Heather on and I know she's sick on several occasions over the past couple weeks and was not aable to make contact um so by me coming here today I'm actually now flying out Friday to Vegas this is just becoming

more economically impactful as well yes sir I just wish that if I can't be here that my voice is obviously captur so I don't have to come back and do it again that's all I'm asking for absolutely uh if you want to email the director uh I'm sure this we will ask and make sure that your comments are heard dur in that meeting if that's the case if you can't make it but why can you answer why it was canceled for today I I'm unsure I don't know the reason I just know that must not met public notice or something I I'm unsure of the reason we W shout at we didn't even know that I mean folks were send a letter so because I thought I saw online and I may be wrong but it was cancelled originally originally to be that's exactly here today and then now it's going to be canceled again again so yeah understand so like I said a public hearing will be rescheduled uh you'll have your uh time to share your comments there you're more than welcome to email the director or the Town Administrator Town Clerk and I'm sure he can capture those comments if you're not available for that meeting and I'll make sure the Planning Commission is able to hear your comments around that when will a decision be made uh it will be with a public hearing when it's scheduled probably by the end of this month so at the end of the public hearing the decision will be made decision will be made about just about our recommendation then it will go to Town Council to do the final say so you'll have two opportunity to speak if you need it okay so what happened today will it carry to the next meeting all of our dis dislikes like I said ma'am uh we're all residents here we we've definitely heard you tonight so I think we share some with a similar consensus thank you thank you all right uh we'll move on to the next item which is business item uh and then the moratorium extension um this is an addition today I I had a looked around the moratorium I pulled it up from the time it was approved from uh

Council I think it was September 11th or 12th I believe and it will expire on March 10th 2025 um so I would like to make a motion to uh recommend to Town Council to extend that more to around for three months uh I think we will also have a public hearing around that this uh this before the end of the month and then at a regular meeting we should be able to send a recommendation to Town Council if we're the check I'll second that all right got a motion and second any discussion around that Mr chair just one point Sorry the moratorium was almost a move point I'm for extending but currently the town does not allow vape shops we know three have got in here through a variety of circumstances but the M moratorium is more of a suspenders with a belt approach and uh I'm in favor of extending it but if there's any concern on Council of extending moratorium I think the attorney said that doesn't see a problem with two months but it shouldn't even matter it should in the ially can be extended indefinitely because the town does not allow vape shops so just wanted to share that all right would you like to amend that or just want to share your opinion to share an opinion awesome so I got a motion second any other discussion all right everyone in agreeance to recommend to extend the moratorium for three months say I I anyone oppos say no right we going to do send a recommendation we'll get a letter over the Town Council and hope we can get on the next agenda uh we'll move on to discussion items we did add an item here to talk a little bit about the resoning um don't want to share too much context I just we we will have a public hearing that allows the applicant to to bring their case forward uh we will have

the uh public as well and then we'll have director Davis which uh formally would reson that and take it to council but also the plan commission will have a lot of conversation too we did have this uh item of resoning from our r 1 to R3 and uh our January meeting I believe y'all can watch that meeting if y'all have not had a chance it's online on surf.com uh or c.org um there's a lot of discussion in that meeting around R1 and R2 and I think y'all probably uh be satisfied with that conversation so um I'll just open up for any committee comments I don't want to talk too much about it but if anybody wants to share anything sh yes ma'am just a brief comment that there are passages in our current comprehensive plan that work against any resoning like that thank you m Mr chairman will the uh transcript of tonight's public comments be entered into the record for the public hearing so everything that's said here tonight carries over uh yes ma'am since we did add it to the agenda item for a discussion item uh we will will capture those comments yes ma'am Mr chairman yes sir um you know I wanted to continue the conversation because I do know and understand especially after you know hearing your comments that you know people take their time out or maybe work or personal responsibility to come here and there's only a handful of people and giving them the opportunity to speak I think is important it's respectful um you know we want to hear what you have to say and it's just that timing is a little bit off which sometimes it will be so no disrespect to the you know the planning here but um I just want to make sure that we respect you and hear what you

have to say and I think there's another opportunity for public comments towards the end if there's a comment that you want to make it you know it's it's a little premature but we're open to here so thank you for coming out too thank you sir thank you any other discussion I'll just add I think it was mentioned earlier I just encourage anyone who had a vault or made special arrangements to be here to reach out to the town to express you know just Express uh uh dissatisfaction with the the process uh the communication and there's certain timelines that need to be followed according to ordinance and unfortunately we can't vote on anything today because there has to be a formal public hearing the public hearing was rescheduled I thought it was today as well until the most recent version of the agenda came out uh but I think if others hear the voice of the pain or at least the effort uh that's involved with some of you to get here I think maybe the next time we'll pay a little bit more attention to syncing everything up so that it aligns with a letter aligns with an agenda that aligns with a meeting that aligns with the timeline of our ordinances I think been a couple instances as of late that it's gotten a little bumpy putting all that together at the Town level but I think it's a nice reminder to let the town to know that please follow the process and and the letters that the town sends out yeah and I I'll just close by saying uh it's not that I don't want to hear you it just seems yall all share the same similar uh results so uh uh I if you're going to just say the same stuff then I we fully understand I don't think I've seen anybody being able to support it and if they did I would more than welcome them up here to the podium but

like I said I feel like I I got y'all's consensus Mr chair yes ma'am I I also would just like to thank you for coming um it it is it is very important that we as a commission hear from the residents of this town you can see that there are not a lot of other people in the meeting so a lot of important things are discussed in Planning Commission in the town council meeting so thank you for showing up and we appreciate your opinion we appreciate your sharing it with us absolutely Shar yes ma'am I'd just like to Second what Melody said and thank you for coming and apologize for the snafu and uh I also encourage you to let your Town Council Members know how you feel about it all right um we'll move on to the next item uh capital investment program uh I just wanted to add this to the agenda tonight uh I know that we recommended uh uh five 1% of our budget up to $250,000 to be allocated towards our Capital our comprehensive 10-year plan uh around probably 10 months ago so uh I have been um working with Heather and uh um the ministrator and a few other council members of trying to get that and what's the next process for that uh I talked to the administrator the other day and he mentioned uh we can either have three options he prefers it to present that inside of the budget and our April 10th budget Workshop as an item um either we can present it as a Planning Commission as uh as our body is supposed to do um or he also suggested If he if we'd be okay with the recommending it inside of the budget budget Workshop as well so presenting that item so basically just wanted to get this to get y'all still on it and what direction y'all want to proceed

with this uh and so I can touch base with the mayor and Council and the administrator my thought is that what at what meeting are we going to have time to put together what we'd like to input we don't have any dollars attached to this progress report you going have to do that either tonight or next time yeah yeah so I mean that's a good call I think when our original motion and when we discussed this we didn't really have a plan but we also didn't want to get away from the point that we wanted to make sure money was at least allocated so that when we did provide the plan we have it allocated for those I think working with the administration and uh we're probably going to have to have a few folks join us just to be able to kind of create that plan as well um but not for sure I'm not even sure the town has ever did uh like they're supposed to I understand the town has a capital program that I think that each one of the directors and stuff handle but I don't think the Planning Commission actually officially recommended this capital investment program like it was supposed to not in the years I've been on this Planning Commission uh are you suggesting we just put in for a lump sum and not worried about trying to sub allocated um that's kind of why I wanted the the information if we need to create some type of plan uh I mean we could probably make that in our next Workshop instead of the BS and try to get that taken care of or um if we just wanted to go with original motion and just make sure allocated funds with a promise that we've had to plan in the future or I'm just I just want to make sure that we are able to produce the plan and also able to at least have we're already a year and a half inside the 10year comp plan we have invested a little money which is already pre-planned

uh work I believe not really related to the 10-e comp plan that come out so um just want to make sure we're in a good place when we do have the plan and if we're going to request and we've already officially made a recommendation for the 250,000 1% of gross budget um that at least is considered inside of the budget I agree with at least at requesting a placeholder for the lump Su before it's too late any other comments Mr chairman um wouldn't it be a good idea to um go through the comprehensive plan and the things that were recommended at the tail end of the plan for um making improvements in the town and taking them sort of they're they're listed I presume in a priority and taking those priorities and suggesting Capital uh Investments that could be uh done uh in a fashion that supports what has already been decided should be the planning for the town yes ma'am uh uh I think our thinking was just like you're thinking that we want to produce a plan but uh originally when we made that motion 10 months ago we just come out of creating that 10e comp plan and I think when that time around May was probably when that budget was probably been finalized too so I think it was just the commission's way of saying hey this is a responsibility of the commission uh we need to make sure that we're at least producing or allocating money so that we could create that plan and would have that allocation but I agree 100% yes we do need to create a plan that's consistent with our priorities and the only issue is we really don't have anybody that tells us like if we're want to do a mile of sidewalks a year we don't really know the cost factors so we got to work with the public works or somebody's very familiar with that and I think that's going to take some

time yes ma'am just for clarity these 19 priority investment items at the end of the comp plan there is a footnote that says they are numbered for reference purposes only and are not in order of priority so the 19 are not in order of priority but they're all priorities yeah so uh our original recommendation was on May 7 2024 and basically it said designate 1% of the town's budget roughly $250,000 to three priority investment elements within the 10-year comprehensive plan which included Transportation Economic Development and natural resources so I think we did at least call uh sections out but any other comments so uh what is the Mission uh what are we looking to do are we wanting to be able to present that in the budget Workshop would y'all rather have us requested present it in in a recommendation to Town Council as advisory and statutory board or what do you want the Planning Commission to particularly present that to them Mr chair this was a baby step towards a direction designed over time to get some alignment between the uh 10-e comp plan and an annual budget cycle which just a moment ago share that that's never happened so we said hey step one let's see if we can allocate some dollars to the comp plan we narrowed it down to three elements and in actuality any of the road projects going on right now someone could earmark $250,000 as aligning to the comprehensive plan and we're done right

so this this was a step one just to say a not have Town Council and the Planning Commission usually acknowledge that some portion of budgeting needs to be forward-looking not in the moment what's needed where a pothole is or where a leak is right that this is let's start looking at our priorities as we're doing the budgeting plan so I don't think we need to get super granular with recommending a particular Street or sidewalk and this go around of the budget cycle my own thought is let's assign a bucket of money that ties the comp plan to some work that's taking place in the school 2025 2026 thank you sir Mr shair yes ma'am what he said I support it 100% the more Gran granular we become the more rabbit holes both we and Council will be going down we'll never get anywhere with that I just allocate the bucket okay I agree all right have to I agree any comments SC I do um um but I'm I I have other comments probably in the future of this meeting maybe that will address this um but we have to remember that um you know we're we are under the code of South Carolina law and we need to abide within that and so we really need to know and understand what our Duties are as a commission and um you know what our boundaries are so that we can understand in what we um should propose and what we shouldn't and really know and understand you know uh what our perview is all right thank you any other

comments um what I would suggest is what I did uh this while we were getting ready or doing my researches I looked at other towns as well and they some towns do have a plan that could kind of gave us a guide and stuff that we could use so I would definitely suggest the Commissioners try to look up a smaller town uh in South Carolina that will be able to kind of guide us or make some good good good strides for next uh next year at least and I could probably provide those to you guys too if I run across them so all right uh we'll move on to the next item um that's design overlay district and uh we're going to welcome U Mr Tom vanish with the business committee and I don't want you stand the whole time but I mean if you want to move out be that long well I don't know I guess it depends on how much you bring us well you and I have talked about this and U actually what we're what we're doing is as a business committee trying to work with other committees where we can help um we work with other departments where we can help um we did some work for Zing Department people uh as far as s was concerned where we've been an inventory of businesses there give them an idea of what WR when they were looking at possi we changing zoning over there um and so this is just another step that we're trying to take we work with ksbb we work with anybody else we can try to help the town you know do what's best for the town um this was in response to something that you and I discussed where um there was a question of enforcement about specific um issue in the overlight and we proposed increasing percentage before somebody has to make major uh repairs uh major expenses but we also asked talk about cleaning up the language a little bit just to make things a little more uh well better understood by people so first thing we

change was we're talking about is section 17- 93 F where it says um renovations to an existing building exceed 20% we suggested 50% um as a committee just just mention this we also discussed adding the land in because in most cases in this town land is probably more valuable in the buildings but um comme thought that was overly generous and wanted to take baby steps rather than you go too far at once um if you go down to G um a single building or 50% of the Strip Center has been vacant without power we add without power um because we thought that might first of all be trackable if the power companies not charging them for power you know if they're not they don't have an account we least know how long we been out of power so that's one way of tracking this because a lot of things that we look at in terms of enforcement are just we don't have people you know it's just really hard to do so anything we can do to make it easier on the businesses to come here but also easier on the town to deal with what they need to deal with just trying to take a practical approach so those are the two things from on that page anybody got any questions around 17903 why so we're not confused on what Tak in questions around the 50% or without power uh yeah sure so I'm aligned with the 50% in my mind encourages investment if you were to tell somebody you know if you try to paint your building all of a sudden you're subject to having to refurbish the whole building right that's just right uh anti uh investment ones business I do take issue with the without power yes easily trackable but it's also easily workable right day one 79 I can turn power on my strip mall for two days turn

it back off my clock resets so I'd rather it not be additive it could be if 50% of a strip center has been vacant uh for 180 days or without power for 180 days right that or makes a big difference I don't understand the power of things I would think a lot of these still have power running to them they trying to lease out their places actively so I think that may have an unintended consequence there unless we add or or I think that's I think don't think that's unreasonable um in section 17 is there any other questions around that uh Mr chairman I do have a question so the 50% um you were including the land what about we're not including not including the land what about accessories on the uh on the property would that get included in the overall 50% that's the way the town does it now I'm not really sure if that's what they do excuse me um but part of the point of this is what we're coming up next to which is ciding what is the renovation and what's um actual you know improvements that that would go towards the 50% for instance if you had an hbac system but it's no good anymore you need to replace it why should that count towards your 50% if you really had it before so we're calling out a renovation rather than more maintenance rather than renovation no I understand that but let's say you had um a disconnected uh building uh as part of your uh property with that I would call that an accessory would that accessory get included in the 50% calculation again that's the way the town does it I'm not sure how they actually you know if they take the entire property into account all the buildings that are on

one property if they do a building by building Mr chair it goes by for County tax records and if it's like a capital item a house a pool will be included in your taxation is you m land um I'm not sure where the line is between a small shed or a taxable shed I think it's a concrete pad versus September 3D um but all of that percentages for us and all the surrounding areas Works office taxing Authority Angie I don't want to put you on the spot do you know the answer or if if we have accessory structure out building or storage uh facility out back of a commercial uh residence so is that separated in Hy County tax say the value of the accessory structure and then the building or is it all in one no it's just just the building but again we're only talking about the overlay here so I don't think there's any residential or anything in that so and I I really don't remember any I mean if you got a little storage building out back but like if you got a strip mall I would think that it would be the unit if it's been off you know then again I think um if it's just like this one down here it's the whole building that's been without right without power and and closed down then that would have to be 50% so um I would say it's just the main building okay we can we can verify with Director D um any other comments or questions not on that part any other question um I do have something Tom um one of the things I kind of have a concern around with I read this multiple times so long time ago and still reading it and I see something every time I read it but um my issue would be sort of which I don't feel like it may be interestes in here

is if you have a shoing strip center that has five units in it um we're still requiring them for the building value of the the whole complex not just five right so I mean I don't know how the other commiss F feel I wouldn't care for however many units that is separating and dividing by the percentage and requiring that one unit to meet that certain percentage we would agree with that absolutely and you know look part of the problem is the landlord should been maintaining the property all along you know and that's another problem that we're dealing with in this town you have abente landlords who don't really take care of their property take care of landscaping and you know that's another issue for another night but um it's definitely something we have to think about because when you have five stores in a strip mall and one guy wants to use something he has to do you know spend a lot of money that he shouldn't have to spend that's what we're trying to trying to make make investment easier yeah so I I actually did a little math and I went we're opening Kings Brazilian Bakery I believe down uh next to V shop and I think it's uh something else in that or pet petsies I believe pet rides or something um but um just just so we can think about it here if we required that uh property owner or business owner that's opening to comply with our 20% um the building value for that particular lot is500 $4 4,916 So currently with our 20% requirement they would have to spend $108,000 983 just to meet the overlay um so after they exceeded the $18,000 for that one particular building they would have to meet the overlay in chapter 17 so that's pretty high on that one now there's other buildings if you get down uh to Scoops and beans uh uh that building value was 999,000 so of course after $119,000 they would been required to do

the overlay and then also uh pulling up the kangaroo building here uh the value on that building alone was $313,500 so they would be required to spend anytime they spend over $66,000 on that it would also be required but also want to note it's just not about the ren renovation so Renovations is important and we want existing business to be able to invest in the business they already own but the overlay um it it initiates if it's a new construction if the if an existing property owner or business wants to enlarge their property by a certain percentage um it creates another District requirement to meet this District of way um if it's a change of use or change of ownership also got to meet this District overlay uh so yeah I absolutely agree the 50% is good uh for the fact for existing businesses but it doesn't promote new businesses so um that's one of the things I know that you guys are looking forward too but I just want to make sure that's noted uh because if a new business still comes regardless of the $180 80 days they if it's a change of ownership or a change of use from the previous use that still be required for design overlay any other questions comments Mr chairman um this probably goes to the next section about the ordinary maintenance but I would suggest that in um section 17 19903 that the ordinary maintenance be mentioned as an exception there because including it in a definition seems a little to me I think you're right that would tie it all together so you're looking to include it as exception to ordinary maintenance is what you're saying no no no no I would basically start section

17903 stating that with the exception of activities that constitute ordinary maintenance the article shall apply to all of the following circumstances so right off the back you're taking ordinary maintenance and shuttling it to the side and then looking at all these other and that ties into our this paragraph under 904 which describes ordinary maintenance yes finds it yeah um I know you ain't got to it yet Tom but is is there a reason why we put ordinary that's here or we just added have we went is it supposed to be in some other section or no it's saw Blank Spot got perfect and you you like that what she saying yes I do I I agree with what she said perfect anything else on that particular ordinary meance um does anybody think it needs to be more defined or um when we talk about ordinary maintenance we can all have judgment have a lot of interpretation inside of her ordinances so what particularly is ordinary maintenance outside of just painting or fixing up your outside exterior or Windows I think if you have to replace an H system that's already maintenance you know I mean because M the whole time is that specified in this particular definition or it says is inclosed it's not limited to General Plumbing electrical mechanical and utilities Mains so it's kind of but I think it describes it okay thank you Mr chair yes ma'am so if a business has carpet in their store and the carpet's worn out it needs to be replaced as that ordinary maintenance yeah you know and I think by the same token if you're coming to a new

place and you got to rip up the carpet because it's no good why should you have to why should that count toward your 20% so what are we talking like replacement windows are you calling out I think I I think that we have a lot of work to do on this I don't think that this is something that we need to like say oh this is good I think we got a lot of work to do on this verbage we're just business we're not playing no but uh we like your feedback and that's it's good for us because we'll definitely have a workshop on this too and we I'll take it and dissect it and make sure everything's within state law and then also make sure that we identified Loop Poes and stuff that we may need to address more so all right any any other comments around ordinary maintenance back to okay pick up pick up renovation so it's just again we're just trying to eliminate some gray areas make things a little more black and white you know which I think helps everybody um just moving on one one second so um related to this Renovations refers the process of restoring or existing space to a better state it involves updating or restyling the space but does not necessarily involve structural changes um so this item kind of reached out to me too because I actually went back to her International building codes and then actually looked in the definition see if they had any type of definitions and they're actually uh referring to Renovations as altercations and then repairs so there's two different definitions inside the international building code and chapter 17 has adopted International building code so I just want to make sure those in line as well maybe something we need to revisit just to make sure they align

with International building code but uh I mean I like the addition of renovation I just want to make sure it's not captured inside of the definitions already again this is this is suggestions and you know we're not telling this is all the wording that we want this is these are the ideas we're trying to gr okay any other comments on that 17911 standard once again we just went back to the 20% 50% in item e under existing properties um another question is have you personally reached out to Sandy Cooper to see if they would even share what dates the power was disconnected or is that something I'm sure we could do that I don't know if they tag it maybe on the I have no idea how that works so I just want to make sure it's any uh questions around those two items again then finally the end section 17914 um you trying to again you move some gray areas and more black and white and there's a lot of wordage here wording here um so again this is

suggested Mr chair yes so for this section and you just tell me generally what your intent was what you had a problem with and what you were trying to accomplish um I think we were trying to better Define what um punishments would be appropriate given whatever circumstances exist I mean it's this is a very broad statement so again what I think what we're just trying to do is just eliminate some of the black and white make things a little more clearer so when people come with a question they can say no this is this is how it's supposed to work is there a without naming names or anything is there a specific incident that you can think of that that someone had a problem with no this was this was people talking and coming up with suggestions about okay Mr chair yes ma'am it is my opinion that this section needs legal review or we start saying what what's a crime and what's a punishment absolutely well uh I'll just State a few things in here uh all of chapter 17 offenses or violations is considered a misdemeanor so if you refer back to chapter 116 which is the administration and our M municipality uh Charter and stuff like that it refers to misdemeanors and how that punishment is to be place so um I think it's already there uh I don't have any issue of looking at the the language and add in something if we need it and sure I'm sure Heather and uh our coinforce M and uh the planning building zoning department could definitely help us with this to see if there's any gaps or anything in the original language I would assume that that original language

was approved by a attorney or somebody in previous state but um I will state that I mean everything in chapter 17 is a misdemeanor so if you're if you're violating a zoning ordinance it could be a fine up to 500 $500 and also could be up to 30 days impr prisonment as well so it's just about the enforcement mechanism that we're doing it uh but everything pretty much refers back to 116 which also has infractions as well and if it's a fraction if it's stated and a chapter as an infraction then they would utilize that infraction word or language and if it's a misdemeanor they would work through the misdemeanor side so um definitely uh looking forward to it I mean I know you put a lot of stuff in here as well but definitely would have to have some type of legal opinion this yeah we did not do any legal opinions on anything we did just with the ideas out there yep any other questions around that language not really I I did meet with Tom uh a few a week a few weeks ago I believe just to kind of get a hindsight of what he's looking to do and I've actually had conversations with him previously uh back even when I was just the commissioner around uh what what things could happen or how to producer here so I know he's been out and working with the Planning Commission at least once or twice I believe we met with him um so good work I will say we will be having a workshop on this particular topic uh probably in the next few months I would say after we get our other priority workshops done uh it's something we wanted to probably look at uh uh since your first time meeting with us and I know it's important to the business Community as well so um definitely something we'll be looking at soon good we'll be happy to work with you yeah thank you sir thank you you got anything else just please send it to us I will any other comments or anything before we move

on all right we'll move on to the next item um be Planning Commission bylaws again uh we this is another item just wanted to place it on here we will I was planning to have a workshop um with the bws in the next meeting uh but uh we'll see how that comes um we'll try to get that scheduled by the end of the month and uh we'll take care of these bylaws um the big issue again is the seven days so we have to at least have 7 day uh draft notice to all commission members before we make edits to it uh so I really encourage and encourage the Commissioners to if you have edits or whatever uh you're more than welcome to send those to Heather that way at least they're all captured and as we go down if we go down and just capture and review everybody's edits inside of that draft I think it's a good say hey yeah I know and then that way we can get a final draft and set seven day out I'm not sure how y'all feel about that but um I know I've drafted mine up I think uh Carolyn boy she she jumped all over it quick I thought so I appreciate you doing that Caroline and um just uh we want to produce all that in that Workshop so we can get a good draft for next meeting any comments or anything on the bylaws um Mr chairman yes sir um will we in addition to the discussing bylaws were we going to discuss the email that we uh that you had sent out and our responses did you want to discuss that I I requested that what was it related to uh the the email that you sent out about uh enforcement and our responsibilities as a commission um and I think you had mentioned that it's not necessarily our job to enforce however and then you went on um it's uh we have an actual agenda item on the next one for Planning Commission responsibilities we could talk a little bit about that unless you want to talk about it now it's I mean

where is that the next agenda item oh I'm sorry okay great I mean you're more than welcome make some comments now no okay any other agenda all right any other bylaws comments or anything is that good with the commission of trying to get some drafts together from each individual uh produce those to hether we'll try to get it all one draft and then we'll review it section by section I think it's probably the best option I know quite a few of us have different opinions on a few items but um what I would say um there is a few items inside of the bylaws that really really don't mirror state law so maybe some of those sections we really don't need in the bylaws so we don't want to take anything out that's important or we actually need but there's a few items in there really ain't specified or aligned with plan commission verse and we're able to uh we're able to create our own procedure of rules so as a commission and the planning enabling Act of South Carolina and comprehensive planning we're able to do that so I mean if you want something in there we can definitely add it I I would say our bylaw should capture most of what state law is and then if we need anything ex we definitely do that Mr chair yes ma'am so you're proposing that we all just have whatever notes that we come up with send them and that she makes a draft out of our notes How's she supposed to do that really if we have if you have one idea I have another Scott has another Mary Ellen has a different one how How's she supposed to make a draft out of that without us being in the same room talking well even if she don't create a draft she can attach all of it to our agenda and everything and that way we'll be able to review it before our meeting and uh be able to at least have some type of understanding of what direction each individual is going I think would be good um typically our agenda come out Thursday and we got the weekend to review it so I really like to look at other people's opinions and stuff before that so hopefully we get it out before well we're still going to have a

workshop so I'm sure we'll produce a lot of edits and modification there that we'll agree on U but like carollyn did a lot of grammar grammatical uh Corrections and everything which I I loved I think you're right on path but um it it's kind of hard either we can make a recommendation uh and bring a draft forward and remove the 7day requirement and be able to take care of it a little quicker but um I don't know if the commission's G for that either so I don't know where that 7day requirement comes and I haven't researched if that state law or not but um that's that's the hurle so I mean we have to produce a draft and then the draft has to be approved so I don't know if we can modify the draft from the sday requirement because if we modify then we don't have a sday notice so but also we're working on compliance to the bylaws as well so Shar yes ma'am I would just suest that none of us attempt to regurgitate what is already in state law and in Robert's Rules of Order I think we can just very simply reference those documents without saying it all over and over again in our bylaws I agree all right well so I I mean um if we have some Commissioners feeling like that's not the right thing I mean we will have a workshop on it if we want to review page by Page and take a little longer we'll definitely do that I don't I don't have any issue with that as well Mr chair yes ma'am I'm not trying to disrupt the apple cart at all that was not my intent I just but just logistically like how is she supposed to make a draft out of that just that feels like that is how do how do you even do that yeah um I I personally think that there are some changes that need to be made I don't think we need to get crazy

Mr chair just to add on to what you're saying um I mean it is possible if there's minor changes from each of us um what has helped in the past is and even in this document um any changes or additions can be highlighted or in red and you know even a little footnote of who suggested it and have every addition or subtraction lined out in a little not it it can be done that way if we're trying to do expediate I don't know that there's it's I don't think it's going to be a major edit necessarily but I think it is you know I think it could be possible though it might be a little more work for uh he all right any other comments we'll we'll definitely have a discussion and Workshop around this as well and I would say if you want to add your drafts uh I mean you could send them to a Heather and at least you'll have them in the package you may not have to mark anything up or drafted but at least uh they'll be presented even in the workshop I would like to see some of that stuff as well so that's totally up to you guys all right we'll move on to uh Planning Commission responsibilities so I'm just going to read uh I know we had some public comments but um also just some powers and duties in our ordinances uh section 281 powers and duties uh the Planning Commission shall have all powers duties and responsibilities set forth in South Carolina act uh number 487 of 1967 the Planning Commission shall have the power to prepare and revise periodically uh comprehensive plan and program for development of its Juris jurisdiction as

provided in act 487 of 1967 uh also number two would be prepare and recommend for adoption by the Town Council as a means for implementing the plan and program for the following um that would be zoning ordinances or resolutions and maps and appropriate revisions for its jurisdiction uh regulations for the subdivision of land and appropriate revisions within its jurisdiction and administer the regulations that may be adopted as provided in act number 467 of 1967 also number three would be prepare and recommend an official map and appropriate revision showing the exact location of existing and proposed public streets highways utility rideways and public building sites together with regulations to control the erection of buildings or other structures or changes in L use within such rways buildings sites or Open Spaces within its political jurisdiction or a specified portion thereof as set forth of act number 467 of 1966 number four is prepare and recommend a capital program for its jurisdiction based on the comprehensive plan and the Capital Improvements necessary to implement the plan such Capital program shall include an annual capital budget based on estimates of the cost of the proposed projects and the means of financing them the Planning Commission shall submit the capital program including the capital budget to the Town Council number five is to establish principles and policies for guiding action in the development of the area number six is prepare and recommend to Town Council for the adoption of ordinances promoting orderly development in accordance with the comprehensive plan number seven is to develop whether specific proposed developments conform to the principles of the requirements of the comprehensive plan for the growth of the Improvement of the area number eight is review and recommend to Town Council any needed changes in the zoning

ordinance and the map of the Town number nine prepare and recommend for the adoptions of subdivision regulations and to administer such regulations and number 10 is keep the Town Council and the general public informed and advised as to these matters so um just want to add this it was requested as agenda item I know a few uh a few of us made some comments I believe at the last meeting uh around the enforcement issues we're having understanding our responsibilities as commission with that um me personally when I read this I don't really feel like it is our duty to enforce I think we hire uh staff and the planning building and Zoning uh Department to be able to enforce the regulations and stuff we recommend and Town Council uh passes um on the other hand of that if you read number 10 and this is number 10 of what exactly uh the section two do you have that up Al I don't it's section it's the local ordinance on power duties of the plan commission yes sir section 281 uh number 10 states keep the Town Council and the general public informed and advised as to these matter so basically we're advisor advisory and a statutory commission we basically make recommendations to Town Council they have the final say and everything um I would think our duty as far as enforcement is uh growing that partnership planing and building and Zoning uh identifying things that we may uh encounter as issues or anything and relaying that and be being very verbal and uh communicative with planning building andon outside of that uh I don't plan to go out and enforce any zoning ORD we're not handing out violations uh nothing like that but uh one thing I will mention is as a Planning Commission we're all volunteers we are statutory we take training

classes uh we very committed to cide beach so um we care about the work that we do we we work a lot we meet once a month sometimes s those meetings are three three hours sometimes they're more um so I think we do care about the work that we do and produce the Town Council but at the end of the day I don't own the enforcement portion of it uh I don't think any commissioner here was going to say they're going out to give any violations or Warnings or we're not scoping scoping or anything now if we do identify code violations with the town I think it is the duty as a resident or planning commissioner to probably call that out um professionally into planning building Zing just like any other resident could do that um but it is very important for the town to enforce ordinances as well uh so that we don't even create any type of situation so that's my two cents on it but uh more than welcome to comment on anybody else Mr chair yes sir so that I think was the last meeting that was my comment I appreciate the public comment asking about or being unsure about what enforcement met but rest assured that all of these meetings are video so if you're unsure about something something you go back and look at video the enforcement comment wasn't about any of us being Captain Justice and running around issuing citations it was more around the fact that virtually all of our conversations over the last year there was a mismatch between us working on a section of an ordinance what the town was currently telling a business owner or other and then the third part of this is the enforcement of that I'll give you a few examples there was the vacant shopping center that was opened in the middle of a business open there was a vacant shopping shopping center that had a business open and in the middle of that business opening we shared that there were vacant for more than 180 days they should meet the design ordinance I'm not

saying that the ordinance is right or wrong but if we have it written down then we should enforce it if we don't selective enforcement means inability to enforce anything the reality of it is I have enough ammunition where if I wanted to put up 7,000 foot garage in my backyard no one could stop me and I feel very confident in court I'd win because I have a list of things that were not enforced elsewhere so why are you enforcing it on on me so at the point of the comment is what do we do in scenarios like that what do we do in scenarios where we're in the middle of working on a derelict vehicle language ordinance ordinance language and the town I'm just going to generically say the the the town the town says you know what just park it in the backyard you'll be fine some people may be okay with that other people may not that's not written anywhere people in raised houses may not look like looking down at their deck and deric vehicles in someone else's backyard so it was just made up we just make up a way to get around the nor ordinance so like that is an irritant for me and like the enforcement component was what do we do how do we raise the issue that enforcement is a little wonky I'm not saying lack of enforcement I'm not talking about having enough people to enforce things but it seems that when we the town makes an effort to often it just it feels like it makes things up uh The Vape shop I went in it said well I'm going to be how can I open a vape shop our solution was to say and this is at you know guidance of a few people in the town po you know you could be a convenience store and as long as 50% of your inventory is convenience store based open up you know looks like a duck looks like a duck it's a Bape shop whatever they got around it they just made up a 50% number we're here toiling away in pages and pages of ordinances and we hand it over or while

we're toiling away it just other words are spoken at the Town level and maybe enforcement isn't the right word but how do we as a body raise our hand and say there there's a problem things aren't matching up we have a gas station over here that started Renovations prior to having any permits I would love for that thing to look better it's it's an isord it's 300 ft away from here but they painted different color than the design or ordinance whether or not it's a good color I don't know that's subjective white and blue who knows but the next building next to it that wants the paint we're going to force them the follow design ordinance but we didn't force the first one we didn't go back to the owner and say you did something you shouldn't have done youve got to follow these rules right that just it's really wobbly really fast not saying a rule is right or wrong but what are we doing as a body if we just keep tweaking language like 10 minutes ago I said oh we should add the word or here like not being overly dramatic but why would I say that or even bother if by the time it it flows somewhere else to where someone has to apply it the application becomes a little bit random um we raised a few times about Vape Shop signage how it's out of compliance um I'll just stop there I need to go through Litany of things but there's it just every time we meet there's a new item that comes up and we're like this is a problem something wasn't done right and it that's it it ends with our word not let me fix it so enforcement I don't know what the right word is but is there anything and the state law is very specific on what you can do it doesn't cut short of what you can't do it doesn't tell us we

can't help the town understand an abortion problem so I think we're legally inbound and I think otherwise I think it's a little shortsighted I just keep keep encouraging our partnership with Jack Davis and also we have a Lea on Miss Sean Fallon which is the council member as well um I would say utilize those two folks and I mean if you feel me as a chairman should bring bring some of those things up uh as a commission or I'm not for sure how we would go around I don't think we need to go around making motions to send stuff to her but I believe it's a duty as a plan commission I mean if you want to reach out to Heather and you have issues with particular ordinances or whatever I don't see any issue with redf or Planning Commission member uh looking or making an inquiry to that uh now as far as the enforcement and uh the result of that uh uh if it needs more uh push or anything then absolutely work through me and then uh Miss Sean and they go from there chair yes ma'am my opinion I don't like any of this being verbal I I think it would be appropriate for Mr Sam to put in writing pretty much what he just said and I think it's a appropriate for the Planning Commission to express in writing its concerns to Town Council not a phone call to Heather not hey Miss Fallon would you tell someone let's let's put it in writing if we're concerned and sign it as a body and that certainly does not mean that after that we go around with the clipboard and look for every violation but I think we can express our concern as a body about enforcement problems we're we're writing all these policies and we're working hard with spending a lot of time and we're concerned that nothing happens after we write

it that's just my sense thank you any other comments yes um I respect and appreciate fell members of the commission and I think each of us has a different reason for volunteer volunteering our time on this commission um and I think many of you a passion for ordinances and for zoning and planning and I respect that I have my reasons for being on this commission and I think there's clearly they're different than others um you know I believe in uh law and following the law um I also know that we have to understand what our Duties are as a commission what our Duties are as a resident what our duties are as a resident being on a commission and the power behind that I think we really um should be careful I I prepared a few things and it was really in response to your email that you sent out and I you know in the email I respond I well I have I and maybe others have a different opinion um and you had about six points of I think I believe you and I don't want to put words into your mouth I have actually I printed it out but um that you knew that a Planning Commission can't enforce these ordinances but we can do six things request action followup involved Town Council public awareness yes sir yeah and um you know and I I I respect that and I respect your passion and nobody can argue that you don't have passion you're a very passionate person and uh and you know we met and I there's

a mutual respect um but I just want to remind fellow Commissioners um that you know going back to South Carolina code of laws and it's just a reminder it's a you know kind of to get an idea of our boundaries of what we're here to volunteer and what we're here to do um you know these South Carolina Cota laws I was reading it they're not necessarily page Turners it's not that exciting but I think it's pretty uh pretty informative I actually was surprised at how interesting it was and I'm just going to run and it's very similar to our local law but um my understanding is that the South Carolina laws the code of laws supersedes what we our local laws are and even our um P plan so we have to align ourselves to these these and it's they're short sections so you know South Carolina just really quick um section 629 340 functions powers and duties of a local Planning Commission it is a function and duty of the Planning Commission when created by an ordinance passed by the municipal court or the County Council or both to undertake in Contin A continuing planning program for the physical social and economic growth development and Redevelopment of an area within its jurisdiction right and then that's align with what you know uh um you were saying the plan and programs must be designed to promote public health safety morals convenience Prosperity or general welfare as well as the efficiency and E economy of its area jurisdiction so we understand that so we're here to help the town to try to make it organized and do a good thing um some of it goes on

you know um it says prepare and revise periodical plans and programs prepare and recommend adoption uh zoning District Maps um official map Etc and so forth now nowhere that I read now please correct me if I'm wrong but no did I see that our com our duties as a commission are to pressure staff to enforce ordinances now the state code um it supersedes the local law so we have to go back to this to make sure that we're complying with this um but I respect again the passions and the energy some of the Commissioners feel and I wrote this down in advance because I didn't want to get it wrong um might be our duty but we have a very narrow scope of responsibility actually we are commissioned to map plan and organize zoning to submit to the Town Council we also are we create a 10year comprehensive plan nowhere in the South Carolina code of ordinances did I see that our that our duties as commission are to enforce the ordinances nor say we have the authority or Duty or pressure to pressure staff to pressure Council to pressure fellow Commissioners or pressure you know fellow residents to inforce ordinances after the Planning and Zoning has been implemented so we're planning its zoning commission meaning that there's a piece of property and we we can actually looked it up we can go onto that property before it's before a building is built and we can walk onto there with the permission and and you know measure do what we want to do once it's established what's this it it's it's beyond us we it's not our responsibility

to go and police these things now personally I I know we have passions about what things are but as a personal note and I'm um you know there are uh just a real quick Ronald Reagan said something and I thought it was fascinating being interviewed by Johnny Carson so anybody who's old enough to know who Johnny Carson is he's dead now um but he was saying you know if somebody is accused of breaking a law they're considered innocent to proven guilty but if you break an ordinance or if somebody find finds you for an ordinance or breaking an ordinance you're guilty and you have to prove you're basically guilty and you have to prove that you're innocent so the responsibility we have is pretty pretty powerful and like you know we all have personal hopes and dreams and of what we want to do and what we you know want to pursue and I want to bring joy and peace into other other people's lives I don't necessarily want to always bring negativity and uh condemnation for people out of line I mean people who who might have a misstep in some ordinance they're not murdering they're not raping they're not stealing um and so just as a reminder to sum up reading going back to the South Carolina code of laws um we have a very very narrow purview and I think we we need to it's important to stay within that purview and um you know not go outside of that and we can you know share our personal opinions but we have to be really careful we're in the public if we're going from business to business

and you know writing down violations I think having a little bit of interspective why are we why are we doing that as individuals I think is important to consider so that's all I have to say um thank you for the time Caroline did you have any comments I do not anybody else have anything got you mie um I think I may have started this at the end of our meeting last time and I think that um listening to what you just said I think I may have misunderstood what your intent was Alex um so I actually like the idea of if we have concerns about something write a let's write a report write a letter and let and give it to councel they can do with it what they want to do with it um if we have a concern I think it's certainly valid that we you know that we should put something forward to them I have no problem with that at all Mr chair close this out Maybe not maybe not Scott I I thanks I don't think anywhere in what you read says we are not allowed to shine light on the problem that's all I'm suggesting sure I let I don't agree with half of our ordinances candidly like maybe not half but a lot of them I just sense a lot of problems being able to do anything as a town if we're not consistent and we've come across a lot of recent inconsistencies not even recent long-term inconsistencies and I I just think that needs St just makes it doubly difficult next month if we don't like an ordinance I'm with you I'm Liberty Freedom let's high at it we've got too much going on here but if we start

deviating from what we've got without changing what we've got it we're just hamstringing ourselves and I I think we've raised issues here and I know Dusty has a thousands in different ways rais concerns about this that and the other thing and just saying it it just feels like it falls on death ears at and is there a different way that we can raise an issue shine a spotlight on a pain point for all of our benefits not to make somebody wrong but you know if if you see the same call it people make stuff up in the moment people are making stuff up in the moment when there's a question and it continues to happen and you continue to raise that as an issue there there's a there's a problem that just needs to stop someone needs to say time out and but let me not make something up let me go back to our ordinances if they feel wrong let's bring it back here and discuss it I me just not make something up in the moment or ignore it's it's just continues to get more and more it just trips us up the more we dig into this stuff Mr chair yes ma'am I hear everything everybody has said about state law and I agree absolutely but in support of what I said earlier about us expressing Our concern and this more recently has been said shining a light on the problem I still feel we can do it under our responsibility of preparing the comp plan we are responsible for preparing the 10-year comprehensive plan Council approves it and every now and then Council or one or the other of them said says to the Planning Commission how are we doing on the comp plan so I feel as though we are somewhat held responsible for how it's

going quick and dirty count in the comp plan I found at least eight places where the town is responsible for enforcing something or another so if if we see that if we wrote the comp plan what we see is there's eight places that don't seem to be happening I I really think we have a a responsibility to express our concern that the comp plan is not being carried forward and we should express it in writing from the Planning Commission to the Town Council yeah so um I'll just kind of give an overview of what I had sent each uh commissioner around this uh I know that we communicated a little bit about it last time it was requested to be on the agenda this time and I think it's a good conversation to at least align our body to what the next steps are or in general that but the the items I uh I shared with the Commissioners was document your concerns you always want to do that to begin with just so you can be able to follow up with it uh able to provide that document uh to pbnc or whoever you need to share it with uh it captures a good list of your concerns and and one thing I would say it's not just about calling enforcement issues out it's a result of our ordinances to begin with so clearly if there's an Enforcement issue and we're not following our ordinances then either there's public opinion that we shouldn't follow those ordinances or there's an Enforcement issue where we can't enforce the issue so as our body what I believe our responsibility is to make sure that we capture that information so that we can either make amendments to the chapter where it's not enforceable we don't need it we need to get it out or we need to be able to uh create it in a way it needs to be enforced or uh we need to make sure that folks are aware

that we're uh not enforcing this ordinance so that's all my responsibility I believe is it's not to go out here and say hey we did this wrong or anything uh always a good notification and a document uh helps everything next item is communicate with PBZ I think we do that pretty well I know that uh director Davis is fairly new I think she's eight or nine months in um we've got a new permanent te technician we got a new code enforcer as well so I believe communication with the PBZ department and our meetings or outside of our meetings this far game uh anything I believe that we can help staff or uh volunteer our time or if we need to review an ordinance and make sure we understand it properly or interpretation or whatever we need to discuss it in our commission to make sure interpretation uh is there and what uh the policy is there for uh so communicate with PBZ um also request action it goes back to as we are a statutory uh commission we're advis advisory commission as well recommendation commission um so therefore it is in our perview to uh communicate uh to Town Council at any time so uh if we feel like some kind of uh issue arises or if we're following ordinance is not in public opinion or uh good for the town in our sense I think it's a good way to be able to share that uh uh communication or recommendation to Town Council uh following that uh again the document does that for you it allows you to be able to capture which already shared it's also if you don't feel like the issues being approved or anything it's able to be able to move it to the next task uh and Bob Town Council um of course that's another item that I said I'm sure Town Council is uh they're here to represent the people and they want to know these kind of things as well their duties ain't staff duties so uh they pretty much provide policy and uh policy and guide the town to be able to be administrated by the administrator so uh but involving that communication with

your Town Council leaders I believe creates more um to the problem as well and public awareness as well so a lot of folks don't know about stuff that goes on or we're breaking our ordinances or anything else so sometimes it takes public awareness to be able to uh speak to those items as well that's the items that I shared with a commissioner so any other comments or anything before we move on Mr chair yes sir just any response to that um thank you for that and I I understand I understand Commissioners and I I just again want to remind what are our duties um we can share our personal feelings you know and it it is it can be frustrating if we write these um and they aren't enforced or people aren't you know and I do agree that if if there are law or ordinances on the books that are frivolous and and nobody is following them we should look and change but that takes a lot of work um but in your in your uh six points here um and you're passionate about this and I respect the passion it feels a little bit more like a Manifesto though however from an outside perspective all due respect um you know and for example you said we provided uh PB andz a spreadsheet identifying I don't know who we we is ah oh I okay yeah my CR is terrible um identifying over 40 plus violations so it's a passion and you're being on the planning it's zoning it's good to have somebody this passionate about it um I would just be careful that by doing something some of

these type of things and being so aggressive making enemies is not always the best way to win people over just as a as a personal thing um I think this was a good conversation a good discussion um remembering that we are planning a zoning commission we're our job is in planning before something happens and zoning and maing um Town Council and the uh the staff it's their responsibility to actually enforce the law and I know we can recommend some things but we have to be careful how aggressive we are in encouraging them to enforce these things um that's thank you thank you any other comments all right I appreciate everybody's uh conversation around that I think it was good context so moving on to uh letter e updated language in the bate shops uh unfortunately Direct Davis couldn not be with us tonight but uh she did modif you a few of the the elements we suggested in our last meeting and uh start off our discussion Mr chair yes ma'am this made me feel a little bit like I'm an alien and like I wasn't at the last meeting because to me unless I'm very wrong this is not a depiction of what we discussed did anybody else I agree I think uh a few of the elements what I did after the workshop was send a recap of the items that I had listed all the Commissioners we we kind of had a consensus on to be proposed um um of course I know that we asked her not to remove this uh where she had redlined uh we I believe we asked her to

create a new section uh of numbers instead of using this section I believe is what I believe we asked I do see that she did Implement a few things around uh I think the footage I don't know if it aligns with the sexual ordering and businesses um uh language that we were proposing but I believe that she didn't make some modification but the good thing is uh we were originally going to have a public hearing around this to day as well so it gives us a good opportunity to capture some of these items so I can get it back to her before our actual public hearing so I would say anything that discussed that is not uh modified or anything here just make sure that we call it out today so I can make sure we recap Once Again so Mr chair yes ma'am did we not discuss that we were trying to put properties over on Sandy Lane or was that not the intent that we came away with yeah I think we were replacing that as a conditional use to Sandy Lane which I believe we asked to create a new section which was 1739 5.8 because it actually affects 16 other business Types on C1 so I think it was our suggestion to create another subsection within this ordinance that uh created a conditional use uh to a restricted location ordinance for canister dispensing businesses but I don't Mr chair yes ma'am yeah I have very similar concerns I even did a word search to back it up the way this is staff has drafted this right now it deletes the only reference to Sandy Lane and what that does is allow the 15 businesses or so that we have previously said must be on Sandy Lane to come right back out on C1 we cannot delete that

that particular section and the other thing is I think new section about vape shops is fine but it shouldn't be because if if it is then we're killing the other things uh what we have right now in this version on the chart if you look for instance at uh a welding shop which we have previously said will be on Sandy Lane uh the reference under welding shop refers you to a paragraph on cannabis so there's a lot of work left to be done here okay so uh I know that we'll make sure Rec recap and keeping the red line we're going to propose to create a new subsection with a different number than 7396 because the red line references 16 other businesses in our use chart on 17395 so that was an automotive Record Service Fuel and chemical storage and 14 other items so I I will make sure that that's recap to make sure we keep 173 96.8 and leave the red lines in there and then also create a new uh section which I believe there's a few in there that is open to be used for that restriction just so we're Mr so we're clear when you say leave the red lines in there we're removing the red lines keeping the text correct yes so not not red lining it it's already existing order so remove the it use something other than for return it to its original intent thank the other comment I had around here looks like a blank was left here here number of parking spaces just one we're just mirroring SE exclusive business language I think she did put the parking code inside of the use chart which is uh similar to the other uh retail

establishment so would just have take that so and the last comment I had was the sexually oriented business category remember in front of me it's not on here was to be moved up inside of here like it wasn't to be Pages away yeah some random check to be in here so um do we know that section or I get it I don't know all it's kind of off the left field in the ordance so if we're going to we're going to have that business types defined and and have their own special language but at least keep those together okay any other any other uh comments Mr chairman yes ma'am um can't hear you sorry right next to you uh I think that all the definitions fell out of this draft and we certainly need definitions to make it work I don't think that was the intention I know there were two sets of definitions in the earlier draft and I don't think we selected which set should should be the adopted ones or the ones that we continued to consider um but we we need to have definitions uh in here I believe she was going to keep uh the definitions that we discussed but she we requested for her to move to 1707 so I believe when she did this proposal maybe she just didn't include them but we'll make sure they're included next meeting and uh my next uh uh comment is

I thought we were uh mirroring the distance with regard to the um sexually oriented businesses which was based on the thousand foot uh distance and we're raising this to 1,500 ft in this language and is there a basis for making this a greater distance than uh the other one uh I think they ought to be the same yeah um I'll definitely uh question that with her but I believe what we left with was if there was a state requirement uh to those business I'm not sure if that exceeded or she found something maybe but we'll definitely get an answer okay and um then uh the last yellow paragraph here um to me says that your nonconforming use has to be um rectified to become a conforming use in 180 calendar days is that your understanding of this language yeah I mean that's kind of what I know that when we had uh recommended a few things last time we wanted to make sure that the convenient stores that are non-conforming currently and selling this type of uh product and would be classified as a vape shop uh would be in compliance some sort so the the language is definitely a little choppy but um I had to wrote that actually down too because I don't see anything around the incidental merchandise 10% that we discussed either in this ordinance so and do we have a a a legal opinion as to whether or not we can um force that non-conforming use within this kind of time frame uh without creating um more issues I think the intent and goal would be to try to

get this in front of the attorney beforehand but of course attorney's responsible of reviewing all proposed ordinances so uh he definitely would at some point but my op is to make sure uh the director at least has in fronted him to be able to give these legal opinion before we actually get into a recommending state so Mr chair what what we discussed last time was if it's a non-conforming business we're not going to force it out so this language is not reflective of what we discussed they can they can stay the second thing we discussed was just you mentioned that carving out convenience stores incidental sales and we're going to use the language of 10% of space or 10% of sales volume which mirrors other uh incidental uses in our ordinances so I think at least the uh second half of that last yellow paragraph needs to go we do need to say that existing establishments not following this ordinance will be claimed nonconforming but we're not forcing no one's forc them shut down right they're here it is what it is and the uh inent I'll use say 10% 10% okay Mr Shar are you finished M Carol yes I am yes my thought is that maybe the intent of that 180 day language was to rectify the classification of the individual non-conforming businesses and start calling them what they are not not making them change but just changing their business license classification pretty quickly I think that was intent but what I would what I dislike about the 180 days is I mean probably should create create an annual or at least 365 days just for the fact I mean if they just now renew their license REM it for another uh 365 days so I don't think we should require them to

get another business license within that year I would either have some type of language that says in their next licensing or yeah next cycle or something like that I would be fine with that it's only affecting like two or three I think that was actually our fault for that being there that's what it says in the uh sexually oriented business section section was literally cut past all right so currently I have uh the red line we're going to return it to its original attempt uh Sandy Lane reference want to make sure that's included in this uh uh proposal want to make sure that parking code is corrected uh we want to move the sexually oriented businesses restricted locations up uh closer to this uh particular um wherever this is going to be placed uh the definitions making sure those are in our our agenda packet for next meeting and they're also placed in 17707 uh we'll question the 1500 foot um from the other establishments um incidental sales 10% of space 10% of uh square foot and then existing B shops uh around the 100 they will question that and try to new anything else yall see your second one's redant which one Sandy Lane if we strike if we if the red lines can out s so I'm curious also if we you want to say something um I'm curious though because I mean are all these red line items that were going to return to the original tent are they going to affect if it's in

the same ordinance or the 17396 because that's going to be its own section so if that's the only language about Sandy Lane we would still have to add Sandy Lane if she created a new section we just reference the 396.19 6.8 because that's all the other 15 businesses or however many there are in the reference block it it throws them to the section that talks about Sandy Lane so that's why we don't want her to change that section yeah what I'm having issues with this it don't particularly call out businesses or anything inside that restricted location ordinance of 17396 it just specifies stipulations for each one of those business types in a use chart which refers to 17396 so I if we do that that way I I mean are any of these Redline items going to affect anything in the Cannabis because I mean it's going to be in the same section as what we're saying right I think personally my opinion we should create a new section that identifies a restricted location for can canab to sensing and if we had to utilize some of that language that's fine but my my big concern is if we place the red line back in its original tent some of those elements would may affect some of these elements so well in the in the use chart the subsection where we have cannabis sexual rated businesses and and whatever else it it's called restricted locations so I might have to look at the pine print but I I wouldn't think there'd be a problem yeah because basically what that well don't really say I mean it may be allowed but the problem I have is how they have it set up is this section 173 96.8 so they will go back to use chart and those all those business business

with reference all the business types that we're uh doing restrictive locations on it's going to reference 1739 6.8 but the problem is if we return these these particular elements I don't know like it says use is located on property Froning on Sandy Lane no portion of the use shall be located on properties continuous continuous to Town's Frontage Road or Highway 17 but I don't know like if what are you saying that if we uh a property was on Sandy Lane and still have Frontage on 17 or the back side of 17 business and still front to Sandy Lane that it would be allowed to open or no the exact opposite if it touches if it has Frontage on the highway then it it it falls under the Sandy Lane classification okay we went through a big exercise that you will recall when somebody wanted to the Beth wanted to build a storage building on business 17 and that's when we got into this whole thing of no we're gonna we're not going to have storage buildings spring on 17 they've got to go to Sandy Lane I think that's that's where so another all those things have to be not running us on the highway well another item in here is the storage of flamable and hazardous chemicals explosives of containers of such materials shall be prohibited so yeah I mean would we not consider storage maybe a lighter or anything explain or we're not that that way chemical and fuel storage does not touch the highway is my understanding I think there's an exception of course for gas stations the chart is going to be the last thing to go through and make sure the references are correct there's a lot of things that reference

if we readed line all Mr chairman yes ma'am um it doesn't look like there's enough room to create another uh section there and if we want to tie uh the um cannabis uh Vape businesses to the sexually oriented businesses in terms of the location of the ordinance why not move the Cannabis section to um article four and maybe have it uh a division uh for to follow the sexually oriented businesses so is that in this particular are can you navigate us like where you thinking it's not there it's not it's not there I mean I have it uh on my laptop uh but Article 4 is the uh uh entitled supplemental District regulations and then we have already um uh three divisions there the third of which is the um sexually oriented businesses okay and so you could make a division four and put the uh cannabis and do you have the section of sexually oriented businesses there but number the number it's uh it starts 17430 and runs through um uh $499 although um uh 440 441 through 499 are reserved okay up that sounds like it might work yeah um just say add oh yeah this way it's not messing with what we're going on Red

Line separate bucket here okay yeah um I agree too I just I kind of concerned with we're already restricting location so I mean a new division or restrictive location just particularly to this um and also I mean we need to get the proposed language together before we even think about where we need to pop it in so I think so so um I will suggest is everyone kind of in agreeance with that or Mak sense to meis I need to see it after it's drafted but I think it makes sense all right any other comments one question I had and I shared some conversation with uh Alex but being that we don't allow medical cannabis or cannabis in general um does our definition if we do put it in the use chart even though it's conditional allow a cannabis to open up so are we moving too fast I mean the state law doesn't allow that as a scheduled um thing so I don't know if our definition of cannabis allows medical marijuana if that's included or not um are we getting ahead are we going to put cannabis businesses inside of our use chart already and it's not even allowed by state law it's we'll put it as a conditional use but should we move for would putting that cannabis in it or just refer those materials as CBD where's the loyer when we need it I think if we just use the word cannabis based it's loose enough all versions of the bill for cannabis thus far has set a vape shop cannot exist at

the same place as a dispensary like a wheat dispens so like right away and the non-conforming can't sell it and who knows if pass this year I think if we put cannabis based and we wait to see what happens with the bill we'll be able to react and every version of the bill this far allowed it's the only business type in the state that a Town's allowed to say no we don't want okay if I recall correctly I don't know how many of you were here when Chief Kenny Hoffman first briefed us on all this and it seems to me one of his main concerns was that existing vape shops if 17 of them established their brooken mortar within the town then it would be painless if the state should pass medical marijuana for them just to roll over and then we've got 18 of them I think he was hoping we could block that eventuality well I think we do that with some type of disorders dist restrictions and stuff so that's good all right any other comments or anything around here I did add the supplement regulations and uh added the division four suggestion there that I'll provide the director Davis as well I kind of didn't like uh they added a person commits a misdemeanor if he or she operates or causes to be operated in can cannabis some business smoke shopp or tobac I don't like that language but not sure she'll be drafted or not so an a& of number one I can say is it's a it's a good thing we're extending the moreor and then also I don't see any I would assume that uh being in chapter 17 I guess if they needed a relocation or

suspend license I mean I guess it's covered inside of that so I don't see anything that navigates that way if they're not conforming or open up without turn me out all right any other comments suggestions hopefully we'll get this in our next workshop and public hearing all right we'll move on uh next item is uh public comments welcome any further public comments R for 12 for7 old uh I like that you'all had the business committee here um fact is um May or is it U July 12 July uh 2012 I started that committee when I was on Council and uh how many of y'all are actually business people run a business and own it yourself okay was one two three four I believe you're a lawyer right I am okay uh my father was a lawyer my brother was a law um that against that against you don't hold it against but I do know that uh with state law and I worked at state house and I had one of my jobs was researching laws for senators and uh I do know that uh Warriors love to sue people uh I hope that you use some common sense when you looking at at businesses and uh and residents as well

because what you may feel like as reporting somebody might be in their mind harassment uh and harassment you can be suited for state law uh you're liable I've read state law I was on counsil I know I read it over and over I always went back and read many times the administrator told me they wanted to pass a law and IID say you can't do that it's unconstitutional and I proved myself right many times I know how this town can be bre their alls for 4 years years they ran an illegal dumping site where the big dog park is and the little dog park I sued them not for money but to stop them from breaking their own laws the town of Sur side was breaking 35 Town laws 15 state laws it was dismissed on a technicality and count laer try to get the judge to have me pay the cide town coun the town cide legal fees and the judge looked at the lawyer and he said I'm sorry Mr Durant who was the lawyer at the time that dog don't hunt Mr Steven still has a case if he wants to proceed with it thankfully the town cleaned up that lot in 30 days after I filed us the suit just to stop I didn't want any money I just want to stop breaking their laws so keep keep in mind that you break laws that town Sude breaks laws and when you go out and you go after

somebody whether it's uh just to say oh but he's doing the wrong thing you could be have a liability there for harassment one of the things I want you to use in this zon thing because you you're to pass laws to bring it to counsel or pass ordinance of Rec make recommendations and then they will pass the law I've been on both sides of the fence I've been in the enforcement Park I worked for South Carolina Park deheck and my job was to enforce the law and I went out there an unforce law for example I had a van in mer Beach this dumpster was running all over the the ground and running out on the beach and he said I don't have them money to buy a dumpster you're too expensive I said have you ever thought about getting something about welder out here and Welding an angle iron all the way around the bottom Y and I still or stangle still would shouldn't cost you too much I could have find him right then and there but I didn't I used common sense and he called me back I said I'll give you two weeks to get it he called back three days I got it fixed come look at it I wrote him a a place for his motel and he was fine it's so common sense which is what a lot of government doesn't have is what we need in this swn businesses we got people like food line Piggly Wiggly Harbor Freight alies they got B Buu of money but the little man out here trying to make a living long on she works on a commission I know she works on a commission of course you get paid for

title searches things like all that kind of stuff but the fact is these people can't make a living if you make it too tough on them you have to be reasonable and you have to have common sense let the lot the planning and Zing officials the guy who goes out here and inspects right of a violation if there is a violation let him write it up not y'all I don't need to get to that stff because you're looking at a liability read the state law it says that use common sense with working with your laws and bring good laws that make good Common Sense we want to Brin businesses in that's why I started the business committee to start with I wanted to see people come to Surf Side when I built my house in this town I had people I'd work with building houses and they said I don't want to come in Surfside I'm sorry R I ain't come to Surfside work on your house I had to look for other people to do the work because Sur side had such a bad reputation and we don't want that we want Common Sense this is not a homeowners associ iation this is not a homeowners association this is a community of citizens that are private property owners most of them own their own house their own land their own business and these are the people you need to take care of they generate Revenue don't get on their back because you might be facing an attorney like out of there and that attorney might be slapping you a big lawsuit I'd hate to say that happen but

it could happen and it's it's it's ridiculous to think that that might happen Common Sense be careful of what you do and encourage businesses to come down make it so businesses want to come to Surf Side unless you can bring in some big box store that's going to bring brang in buo of money like a Lowe's or a Walmart which you're not going to get all thing you got is Independent Business people and they're the backbone of America I thank you for everything you do and I thank you for y'all were volunteers I got paid for what I did and I thank you for doing that volunteering your time especially I can't believe a lawyer about volunteering her time they charge arm and leg anyway that's what my brother did but no no no offense I think you've got your five minutes thank you for your thank you I'll have a good you too thank you any other public comments all right we'll start with committee com commission comments just one related to of the other comments we've heard 90% of our business owners have hurdles put a certain amount of trees down paint a certain color do things a certain way my suggestion around all like this enforcement stuff is it's unfair to those people who are partners with the town when we let a few others do whatever they want and in those scenarios I think we should raise our hand and shine a spotlight with the town to say it's not right it's just not right

thank you Mar no I think I've said quite enough thank you ell uh just thank you guys again for for coming and for staying around I know that's not it's sometimes painful but we appreciate it very much fun work Scott thank you all for coming out um thank you fellow Commissioners for working together and um finding common ground I think it's really helpful and important um you know I I think big picture uh we are a small town and relationships are important and uh I learned I met sort of met somebody that I've heard of um last night and uh I thought he was not a very nice person and you know you hear some things and once you meet somebody you find out some of their background they're like wow we have a lot more in common than you know we thought and so I think it's important to build relationships to understand where we're coming from so we understand why we're so passionate about what we are passionate about and then we give each other a little bit of Grace so but thank you all for coming out and I'm sorry for those who didn't get a chance to speak up hopefully it'll work into your schedules to you know come back thank you car thank you all for coming tonight and sitting through this and I I hope um we'll resolve the issue the way uh you uh uh want to have it resolved but um uh I will say that I I do think um having an even hand with things is um pretty important and Shining a light where we don't have an even hand is

important because the last thing we want to do is to um uh have a situation where uh people uh feel resentment because they were treated differently than other people and that that's a bad thing to have in uh a town it makes people snipe at one another and what have you and we want to have a pleasant uh town where everyone uh hopefully gets gets along as much as possible thank you very much for coming good night yeah and I just want to say thanks for everyone coming uh uh the public comments short it's not because I don't want to hear them I just felt that they were outlined and we definitely heard each individual uh I'm sorry for anybody that was in attendance that had to make travel plans and stuff to be here uh absolutely understand that as well and uh we'll try to get that public hearing advertising out to you guys and if you can't help it or can't make it we'll definitely make sure that your comments are HT as well um one comment uh I heard a public comment talking about zoning boarded appeals we are not the zoning board of appeals where the Planning Commission that's a whole different whole different uh board so uh they they basically hear appeal so if uh uh if you go to PB andz and uh apply for something and you feel like you don't get what you want or want a varant or something like that uh you would submit an appeal process and that would go to the board of zoning appeal so um that kind of VAR stuff and stuff we don't approve Varan as that board does that but I appreciate you bringing that to as well um outside of that uh thanks for everyone coming tonight and uh we'll see you at the next meeting thank you a motion toour please I make a motion to

adjourn I got a motion to adjourn by Scott and second by Mary Ellen uh any discussion everyone AG say I anyone oppos to say no MO