Council - Regular Meeting

Bye. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Good evening, and welcome to the Town of Surf City Council meeting. This is our regular meeting on June 2, 2026, and it is 6 PM. So we're going to get started and call the meeting to order. At this time, we'd like to call upon Nick Adams, our pastor from the gathering, to come up and lead us in invocation. And then John Koloski will lead us in. Oh, no, the girls are going to do our pledge tonight, not John. If you would, please stand.

You're good. You can stand there. All right, we're going to pray, and then we're going to say the Pledge of Allegiance after we pray. But let's pray. God, thank you for an opportunity to gather. Thank you for all the people that are here. Thank you, dear Lord, just for letting me be a part of this community in any kind of way. God, thank you just for the relationships, for just the personalness of this community. Dear Lord, just thank you for everybody that makes up. this town god i just pray that i just continue to give them wisdom discernment uh that you protect them to keep them that uh you help them to be about people and not about things and no help them to lead with love dear lord and i just thank you for whatever comes dear lord that i You know that you go before us, and you love us first, and you love us best. And help us to just share that with people any way we get. We love you. Amen.

Thank you, Mr. Nick Adams, for sharing God's love with us. And thank you for sharing your daughters with us tonight, Olivia and Lanie Adams. You did an excellent job of leading us in the pledge. At this time, I'm going to call upon Sandy Moreau. She is our beautification enhancement committee chair. And she has some awards to share with us, along with some other presentations.

There, is that better? Yeah. First we have our business of the month, and this month we selected Lobster Shack. And I don't know if, I didn't see Trevor come in, I think he had another obligation, but we will be going to his business tomorrow and taking some photos, so if we can give him a round of applause. And for our Home of the Month this month, we chose Katie Duffy's home at 302 New Bern Avenue. Is she here tonight? I know she's going to be here tomorrow for photos. But this house is so cute. I see it every single day when I walk my little dogs. And I always say, this house needs to win. And I'm so glad they did this month. So if you're interested in nominating your neighbor or yourself or a local business, all you need to do is reach out and send an email to the town, and they will make sure it gets to our committee for consideration. Thank you.

All right, and now Sandy will come back, and she is going to present Surfing in the City.

OK, so if you've been around town lately, you've probably seen the first, I think we have seven boards up around the community. We acknowledged a few of them last month, and this month we are going to do two more. So first up, we have Coastal Home Store, and we have the owner, Jill Clark, here tonight. along with her artist, Laura Lobdell. And I'm going to let Laura tell you a little bit about their company.

Thank you, Sandy. Can you all hear me? I don't usually use a mic, so if it gets loud, just do one of these with me. I'm used to speaking loud instead of into a mic. But my name's Jill. I own Coastal Home in Surf City. I just wanted to thank not only Sandy for having us here today and being a part of the Surf in the City project, but I'm super excited to be here today with our neighbors in the Gateway Plaza, which you'll hear about next, Shuck and Shack, too. It's just super exciting when we do something like this for the community and then find out our neighbors are doing it, too. That just like double down on how important it was to us. But for me personally, I came to Surf City for the first time 10 years ago on vacation. And it was that summer, that weather, the people in the community, the turtle analysis that summer when I met Trudy for the first time and a handful of other things. that when I went back home said, I've got to be a part of that community. And so the next year, my family and I invested in an investment property in Surf City. Long story short, we are now residents. Our primary home is in Hampstead. And Coastal Home was kind of, a child, if you will, of an idea. When we relocated to the area as our primary home, there wasn't a place like Coastal Home where not only for rental properties, but for our own home, we felt like we could go within 15 minutes and get what we needed to make our house a home. It was always a trek to Wilmington. The idea for Coastal Home came from a sense of community, a place that was local, a place we could share artistry like Laura, and that we could really celebrate all things that home represents, a lot of which we heard about in the prayer, we heard about in the allegiance at the beginning of this meeting. That was the sense we were trying to create with Coastal Home. And we didn't know that a year later, after we created the business, that COVID would happen. And so all the things that we were trying to foster with community were challenged because we weren't really allowed to foster community at the time that COVID happened. And so I think as the Lord would have it, and as you know, we're here six years later, we have grown our business from a small place in Hampstead where we were kind of just testing the waters to see if it was something that community responded to, to a place now in Surf City that we're proud of. As I mentioned, we're paying taxpayers in Surf City, so we're part of the community. My kids attended the schools here in the area. We have the business. We are at Shuck and Shack every Friday, Karen can attest, with the family. And so it's just a really, it's really great to be not only a part of the community, but it's a sense of home in every essence of what we offer, and not only in the business, but in the community itself. And so when this project came forward, For me, it was like a no-brainer. I don't know if we were the first ones to respond, but we were pretty quick because I know that. It was like we have to be a part of this. I just love what you're doing for the community. It's a way to get our locals to understand how special Surf City is. And for you, Laura, I'm going to turn over the mic here in a minute. It's a great way to not only share, again, the essence of what the business is, but the flurry of talent that we have as it relates to artistry. So you joined us about four years ago. ago I think you came into the old store and we fostered a relationship and a friendship and Laura has been the most popular artist in the store since that time so when this came forward not only were we willing to jump on the opportunity but for me it was just cross my fingers say a prayer and hope that she says yes she'll do this with me so I'm going to turn it over to you to tell the community a little bit about you and how the idea for the board came together yeah

Well, again, my name is Laura Lobdell. My business is Printed Hues. And as Jill said, I am a local artist. My specialty is kind of coastal-inspired artwork and products that turn any home into your coastal retreat, which aligns perfectly with Coastal Home Store. And we've loved working together. And so when this project came up, Jill emailed me and said she had a wild idea, and I responded and I said, is it the surfboard project? Because I had just seen some chatter from Surf City about it, and I was very excited about the prospect of bringing public art like this into Surf City. And so for our board, we collaborated and came up with the inspiration to kind of have nods to our beautiful marshes and waters and our military presence, as well as a little bit of the back of the board being kind of that retro surf look, which you can see in the images. That is just a nod to all the surf culture around the city as well.

You want to add anything to this?

No, I think you hit it out of the park. We wanted to make sure there was two perspectives on the board. So whether you were taking a picture, our visitors were taking a picture from the front or taking a picture from the back that they had two different opportunities. So that was pretty special to us as well. And again, just want to thank you for allowing us to be a part of the project. And we just look forward to growing that seven maybe to more so that we can, I have lots of wild ideas about how we can get people around the city. So let me know how we can help in any way. We're happy to be a part of it.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. Okay, our next business is Shuck and Shack, and we have Bev Simas and her artist Cheryl Hunter here, and also their manager Karen Evans. Sorry about that. Oh, and I have some of my community people that are very close to Shuck and Shack wanted to come up, so here you go. Thank you.

Hi, I'm Beverly Simus, along with my husband Jason. We own the Shuck and Shack Oyster Bar. We have been serving local Surf City seafood to tourists and locals alike for over 11 years in Surf City now. And I also brought with me our general manager, Karen Evans. She is the face you're going to see day to day when you come into the restaurant, so you might recognize Karen. When we first found out about the Surf in the City project, we were very excited because we knew it would probably be a really good addition to the city. But in addition, we were really excited because we have a fantastic artist who is one of our regulars, and we knew that this would be a great opportunity for us to be able to feature our regular, who is a talented artist, Cheryl Crane Hunter. So Jason and I approached Cheryl with the idea to be our artist, and all we really said to her was, hey, we really want to feature oysters. So I brought Cheryl, and she's going to explain a little bit more about the inspiration for the surfboard that she painted for us.

I'm Cheryl Crane-Hunter, and I own Paint With Me, Cheryl Crane. So not only am I an artist, I teach other people how to paint.

So you can come paint with me.

Thank you. So our inspiration said, yep, let's do a surfboard. When I heard about it, I'm like, I want to do all the surfboards. So my inspiration, of course, oysters, but we have the most beautiful sunsets in Surf City. And so capturing that light of God that comes every night and also the watermen. And those are the ones that come and bring us the oysters. And so that was the front is Waterman. And then this beautiful sunset. And if you look really close at the top, there is an angel up there because I'm an angel painter. And then at the back, I did the oysters. And so I used a lot of iridescent paint so they could just like vibrate and look jazzy. So you have to come to the Shuck and Shack because it's my favorite place. I love them. I keep the light on, and I send everybody that comes paint with me has to go get their picture and send it to me so I can put it on my Facebook page. And I thank y'all for letting me do my art, because I love doing art.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. If, um, if you're here and near a business or an individual that is interested in sponsoring a surfboard, all you need to do is go onto the town's website. There's a tab under special projects that tells you all about surfing in the city. And there's information about artists that have done work for us already. If you're an artist and interested in participating, there's a link there that you click and you can submit the paperwork and it gives you all the information. so that you know what you need to do and if you are interested in being a sponsor you can send a message and someone from my lovely committee will come out and talk with you and tell you all about it. And that's all I have.

Thank you very much. I just want to say, and I think everyone else on council would too, to the Shulkin Shack, to the Coastal Home Store, thank you for investing in our town. Thank you for believing in our town and all the support and love that you get from the local artists that supported Your boards, it's amazing. The front of the Shuckenshat board reminds me of my grandfather out digging oysters in the early 70s. I remember him out there with a rake and digging oysters. So it's amazing to see that that local feature is there. And again, thank you for what you do for Surf City. Okay. So at this time, we will move on to proclamations and questions. We have a proclamation for Flag Day. I'm going to read this very quickly, and it states, whereas by act of Congress of the United States dated June 14, 1977, the first official flag of the United States was adopted, and whereas by Congress dated August 3, 1949, June 14 of each year was designated as National Flag Day, and whereas on December 8, 1982, the National Flag Foundation was chartered to conduct educational programs and encourage all Americans to pause for the Pledge of Allegiance as part of the National Flag Day ceremonies. And whereas Flag Day celebrates our nation's symbol of unity, and stands for our country's devotion to freedom, to the rule of all, and to the equal rights for all. Now, therefore, I, Theresa B. Batts, mayor of the town of Surf City, do here proclaim Sunday, June 14, 2026, as designated as Flag Day 2026, and encourage the citizens of Surf City to observe the day in ways appropriate to its importance. Thank you. This time we will move forward to the adoption of the agenda. Do I have a motion to adopt the agenda?

Yes, Mayor. I'll make a motion to adopt the agenda.

I'll second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed, same sign. Motion carries. Next on the agenda is the approval of the consent agenda. It is requested that the town council consider approval of the consent agenda as presented. Do I have a motion to do so?

Yes. I will also make a motion to adopt the consent agenda, Mayor.

I'll second.

A motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, same sign. Next, we have public comments. Citizens have the opportunity to address the council for three minutes per speaker on topics which concern the agenda of this meeting. And Carla will present. Peggy? Peggy, you can turn it back around if you like to. And if you would, just state your name and your address.

peggy arsenault 288 atkinson point road i just have a couple of comments um one i'm not a fan of the new traffic light on the bridge it destroys my morning drive as i'm driving over the bridge looking at our beautiful city and thanking god for the wonderful place i live and it's just it's infuriating to see that light it also causes when the traffic is coming onto the bridge towards Mainland, it makes it so hard for me to get out of my street. So whatever, because they go 50 miles an hour down the bridge. So by the time I get in the circle, they're on my bumper. So I pull out in front of them. They got newer cars than I do. The second thing is that Surf City is going to celebrate 250 years with our country. And I'm hoping that our firework display is going to be celebrating it much more lavishly than we did last year. Last year's were pitiful. So I'm hoping for a great big celebration this year on the fireworks. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Peggy. The traffic light should not stay there all summer long. It is a DOT study project. So we'll see what DOT decides. Yes, ma'am.

Tracy Raynor.

Tracy Rainer, 7012 7th Street. Wow. OK, good evening, Madam Mayor and council members. I've gone through the budget, and I have to say that this is the first time I've gone through a municipal budget line by line. So if I've misunderstood anything, please forgive me. First of all, I want to thank you all for the cuts that have been made and the potential rate to be set on the current reassessment. But I have noticed something that seems to be a pattern that's concerning to me as a taxpayer. There are several areas in different departments whereby the budgeted amount exceeds what the department manager has requested and what the town manager has recommended. That doesn't make sense to me. If the department head and town manager are requesting and recommending a dollar amount, then why are we budgeting in excess of that? Then when I look at how much has been expended of what has been budgeted, if they're not using or needing the amount requested, then why are we budgeting that amount? A higher budget than what is necessary only leads to excessive spending and excessive waste on the back of the taxpayers. If I'm reading this wrong, then I'm guessing other people are too, and that is a lack of transparency to the taxpayers. It would save everyone time to not have to question the budget items to any of you if the budget was more clear. I feel pretty confident that the same questions have been asked for over and over again that may not have been necessary had the budget provided to the citizens been more clear. Here are a few examples of what I'm referring to. Facilities and grounds uniforms amount requested was $4,946, and yet $12,400 was budgeted. Or supplies in the same department, $30,000 was requested, $57,100 budgeted. Or emergency management. Maintenance repair equipment requested $2,500, but budgeted $5,500. Or supplies and emergency management requested $5,500 and budgeted $10,000. And what really takes the cake in several of these different departments is dues and subscriptions. In emergency management, they requested $31,000, budgeted $34,000. The same line item went from $4,627 to $17,000 to $34,000 from 2024 to now. And that seems like quite a substantial increase. There was also a line item on the budget called non-departmental expense, which was allocated $100,000 on the budget. But there was no request or manager recommended for this amount. So what is it for? And why was it budgeted? There's a whole lot more I don't have time to say. But on a different note, I do want to say something about what happened at the last meeting two weeks ago. And that is that I know you all were frustrated. The meeting lasted longer than anybody wanted to be here. But several of you were very disrespectful in your actions and body language to Andy. That was totally inappropriate and unprofessional. Thank you, Ms. Rainer. You're welcome.

Next item up is a public hearing and it is the budget ordinance hearing. Um, at this time, is there going to be any presentation?

Excuse me. Good evening, madam mayor and council and members of the public. I don't have a formal presentation this evening. I have given multiple presentations over the budget. Not that I'm skipping over that, but before you tonight is, is to hold a public hearing on the budget ordinance and budget for the upcoming fiscal year. The agenda does note that it's requested that you all vote on this. This is not being requested that council vote. We've communicated multiple times about Senate Bill 899, which is the state law that has been submitted by the North Carolina General Assembly that would put a pause on property revaluation. So we've been trying to hold the line as long as we can in order to make sure that what we're doing is accurate with state law. What I would anticipate that this board will do is we can either hear this and put it up for a vote at the work session or at a special call meeting towards the end of June. By law, we do have to adopt a budget by June 30th. If you can't adopt a budget, you must adopt an interim budget. It's our hope that the state state legislators will find resolute in whatever they're moving forward. I did communicate last meeting that it's our understanding that the House is going to take this bill up and most likely will advance it. But again, that's just a guess at this point. So what you have before you is two separate budget ordinances that go over essentially the funds for appropriation as well as documenting revenues as well as adopting a fee schedule and paying classification plan. The budget that's presented in front of you, the budget ordinance that reflects a property revaluation occurring is based on the tax rate, a proposed tax rate of 26 cents per $100 evaluation. Current tax rate is 53 cents worth of valuation. In review of the budget and some additional items in there, this also includes the capital improvement plan and also the funds just for informational purposes, the project funds that are recurring that go from fiscal year to fiscal year. But this budget doesn't appropriate additional monies to those funds. So at this point, I can try to answer any questions on the budget. I'm sure there will be some questions specifically. I know that we've talked about a ladder truck extensively, and I can go over sort of the methodology behind that. And then the second, budget ordinance, is the one that reflects no property revaluation occurring, and that tax rate recommended is at 48.5 cents from 53. Once again, just to make sure everybody's clear, option one is the revaluation. You apply 26 cents to what that value that you received in the mail from either Onslow or Pender County. Option two is no reval occurring. It reverts back to the 2025 schedule of values or what your value was on your property before the reval. And again, at 48.5 cents for that. So again, Madam Mayor, I'm happy to answer any questions or try to answer any questions that the board may have.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Thank you again to Kyle Brewer and our finance department, especially Melissa Moore, that has worked tremendously hard on our budget. So at this time, I'm going to ask for a motion to open the public hearing.

Mayor, I'll make a motion to open the public hearing.

Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, same sign. Public hearing is now open. This is your time to come up and ask questions concerning the budget if you'd like to do so. Please state your name and address.

Mike McCusker, 1016 South Topsail Drive. I am a resident. Sir, I would only ask that based upon the survey and then based upon the questions we had last month and the hope that you all went back and scrubbed the budget as we citizens had asked you to do, that you would please identify the big ticket items that you identified that had major changes to the betterment on our side, meaning it's less.

Yeah, Mayor, if you don't, I'll be happy to try to address that. And thank you, Mr. McCusker for the question. And really, the scrub comes from the initial process in developing the budget. And if I get long winded, just cut me off, please. But Yeah, when we start in March and we request that department heads present their requests, that really initiates the process. And my method in which I do that is I allow department heads to put forth their requested needs. And then they present that to council. They need a fair shot to explain what they're trying to do. And then that's when the pencils go to the paper and we try to, make sure that we're making logical cuts to the budget in order to represent fairness to the taxpayer, fairness to the organization, et cetera. So going through that is a typical process where we're gonna look at Things like Ms. Rainer had brought up about operational expenditures, and if you're not meeting that mark, is there cuts available to be made? Sometimes those things fluctuate from year to year. Something may not have happened, which is why the money did not get spent. But specifically for this year, I feel like we spent a lot of time really looking at Those operational cuts it comes from gas that comes from dues and subscriptions that comes from travel that comes from training all the items that we talked about at the last meeting one-time expenditures that may not qualify for capital improvement items, so we had a request from our police department for $30,000 to make some improvements for a firing range we had requests for an incinerator for drug apprehension or the drug deposit program that we run. We have options available to us. We travel to Burgod to dispose of those things. So those were options that were weighed in regards to is this truly a need at this point versus something that is a little bit more convenient. So those are just some general highlights. Another larger expenditure that we looked at was trying to balance, and again, I talked about this last meeting, was trying to balance big-ticket personnel and expenditure costs specifically through budgeting funds for overtime. So what I'm talking about is that we budget for a pick on the police department since I already started. And they're here. I'll pick on them while they're actually in the room. But we budget for a fully staffed police department throughout a fiscal year. We don't budget for three quarters of a staff. We budget for a full staff. Inherently, we're going to have turnover within a department of of 25 officers throughout a year. So that creates what we call salary lag. So that's funds that aren't being expended in salary. So the method that was then applied was, okay, well you've budgeted this amount for overtime. We know historically you're not gonna fulfill 100% staffing. We wish that was the case, but 100% staffing for the entire fiscal year. Let's reduce our overtime expenditures and mid-fiscal year, so mid-year as we work through a budget, if we start to see overtime reaching what our budgeted allocation was, we can move money then from salaries back into our overtime costs. There are some risks that go into that, but I believe that that's a fair approach to look at, especially when we can see historically that bigger departments like fire department and police department that are typically general fund departments or tax funded departments aren't meeting those expenditure needs. So those are just a kind of a high level overview of what that looks like. And again, we continue to try to Try to look at where we can to cut those things.

Thank you, Kyle. Anyone else would like to speak during this public hearing? Yes, ma'am.

Annie Volley, and it's 413 North New River Drive. And I just wanted to thank Kyle and Alicia, who answered emails for me last week. I appreciate it. I found them very responsive. And I don't know if anybody else took the time, but that was a very detailed line by line budget. And having watched the council work session, which I wasn't able to attend, Just the line-by-line budget itself explains so much of the expenses and what you do. And I think that that is something that the public needs to see as early as possible, especially when I was talking about capital expenditures and understanding how many police cars need to replace and the new tractor and equipment you need. And also just seeing for each department, I loved having the vision for each department set forth. how many employees were considered under each department. And that helped me to break down, like, cost, how many people are in that department, how much are we really spending on these people. And just also, I'm just really here to say good stuff. How generous you are, I feel like, with the benefits for the employees. I know that we may not be able to match in the public and private sections what you do with the same job out in the public sector is. But you're very generous with vacation time and the investments for personal time and charitable time and all that. So I just was impressed with it all, and I appreciate, again, being able to really look at the details of it that you all have provided.

Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak during public hearing?

Hello, my name's Greg Nelson. I'm at 1621 South Shore Drive. I'd like to thank Andy and Alicia for answering my questions. Excuse me. I went through line by line as well, and they answered a lot of my questions about more staffing and stuff. I still think... There needs to be cuts in the budget, but I understand y'all going through the process. Again, I appreciate your time, Alicia, your time answering questions. Some of them I got answered, some of them I didn't. One thing I found out, if online and this is something maybe you already did tell people that are looking at it it's eight month expenditures when you're looking at comparison cost so i didn't know that until it was pointed out to me i figured it was close to 11 months i didn't know so that'd be something you might want to look at online that to help make this because a lot of my questions were why have you spent this much and you're going to budget this much so it's just common sense uh some of the expenditures that i didn't realize didn't know much about was the beach of nourishment i got it explained to me pretty pretty good by andy and a couple other things and i appreciate that and i just like to thank you and it's a hard job i still think you can whack whack whack but you know I do appreciate your time in answering my emails. Thank you.

Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak?

I have an agreement with him.

I talked to Andy about the budget when I had some questions about some things, and he explained some things to me as well. Even though, like I said, as I read that budget and I looked at the columns, it really wasn't very explanatory. So I appreciate Andy taking the time to explain some of that. There are some areas, obviously, we've all talked. I mean, even the lady a couple of weeks ago even said something about the dues and subscriptions items. It seems like so many departments are so There's just so much expenditure in dues and subscriptions. And I can't help but think that is just an excessive waste of money. So I'd like to see you guys really look at those dues and subscriptions and really look at also another one that really kind of caught my eye was telephone and postage. And in the whole scheme of things, as I look through some of these things, it seems like There's a lot of them are like a big thing. You know, there's not like a huge amount. But all of these little things add up and add up and add up and add up to a bigger amount, right? So when I looked at this telephone and postage, I'm thinking, well, how much postage do we really do anymore? Because everything's pretty much done online. So how much are we really spending in postage? And then I look at the telephone, and it's combined with the telephone. So I don't know how much of it's telephone, how much is postage. But then I'm thinking, are telephones that expensive? Holy cow. I mean, do we need to be looking at... a different carrier. I don't know who the city uses for their phone system or whatever. Is there an option of a different carrier that we need to look at negotiating a contract with that? Because it just seemed like departmentally, it seemed like that was a fairly significant amount that I just didn't expect. So anyway, that's it. Thank you so much for what you do.

Would anyone else like to speak during public comment? Hearing none, do I have a motion to close public comment?

I'll make a motion to close public comment, Mayor.

I have a motion. Do I have a second? Second. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign. Public comment is closed. At this time. knowing that the Senate Bill 899 is, we're still on hold. So in my mind, we're not going to vote on this tonight. But the budget that is presented to us will come back to us once the House bill is voted on. At that time, there will be a special meeting that will be called unless we agree to a certain date right now. If y'all want to ask any questions, now would be your time to ask questions concerning, or Kyle, if you want to.

Yeah, well, I think, you know, the attorney and I were kind of talking about this a little bit before the meeting about, you know, okay, well, what budget, if you were not saying, I'm asking to vote on this tonight by any means, but if we did put this on the work session or you did schedule a meeting and certain to a specific date and the Senate bill had not been resolved by the General Assembly, what do you go with? And the attorney, reminded me that right now, the revals are effective. So that is the law. And the reval number or tax rate would be set. But that might have to come back and be readjusted. So again, I think that I just don't have a good sense of how the state is going to move this and how quickly they're going to move it. But I think that knowing that, if you all wanted to set that specific date that we know everybody's going to be here, we could do that and then we will be prepared to present whatever is reflective of the law at the time.

This time our workshop is June 18th at 6 p.m. Everyone has that on their calendar.

So y'all want to set it for six As far as voting on it on June 18th at the workshop Perhaps we can consider a special meeting for that separate from the workshop in that we rarely use the workshop making any decisions and something like the budget probably is something that deserves its own meeting and

Well, but a special meeting, Mr. Plow, is usually called at last minute. So come June 18, the bill may still not have been voted on. So it will be delayed even longer if it's not voted on. if we have to vote on a budget before June 30. So it could come down to a 24-hour notice, 48-hour notice that we would give. So right now, it's giving the public two weeks.

think that's fair to set it for the workshop just because we've moved the meeting time and it does give people an idea that our intention is to do it then but then if if we can't then we do have to look at possibly doing a special meeting after that fact because we just don't know right now but we also don't want to sit on it any longer than we have to just included on the agenda of the workshop meeting we can

push it even harder. I mean, we always make social media posts, social media posts, and of course is always on the town calendar, but we can certainly highlight that the budget will be considered for adoption this evening or for the work session on June 18th. And we can, we can try to make that additional push if that's what the board would like to see.

So it's not a special meeting at a different time at night. Like we'd sometimes have five o'clock. I mean, it's part of the workshop agenda. June 18th, part of the part of the, with everything else.

Just for the public to know, normally they don't vote at the workshop. That doesn't mean that they're not allowed to. They legally can. So they're intending on doing that. So if you want to come to that June 18th meeting, make sure to be here. And that's what Kyle's going to push out.

Have consensus? You want consensus to do so?

Yes, I'm good.

That's fine. Yeah.

Yeah. OK.

All right. We will move on to item number two, which is Anna.

Will council have an opportunity to comment on the budget and ask a question of Mr.

Brewer or at the workshop or here today? That's completely up to the mayor. Yeah.

Before we move on, if you want to ask a question, Andy, feel free to.

Well, at, at the workshop, we had talked about uh the trash can rollback and is that a tourism related expense and we were going to get an answer for that is it i asked asked jonathan he didn't convey that to you no that and i apologize i did not get the memo on that one Well, in reflecting on what tourism-related expenses, there are three criteria that need to be met. One, it cannot inure to the benefit to the population as a whole. So it has to support tourism. And the mayor had pointed out, and rightfully so, that there are safety issues with regard to trash cans in the roadway after pickup. And there are aesthetic issues with that. And historically, we have funded aesthetic issues. things through the beautification and enhancement committee that comes out of tourism and safety obviously the ocean rescue is funded out of tourism so I believe it meets the criteria and I'd like to ask if that can be changed in in the budget again we had talked about this I think it was after the meeting and my recommendation was that you don't

assign additional recurring expenses to the accommodations tax fund at this time simply due to the upcoming beach nourishment project. And in my professional opinion, I felt like we needed to protect that.

I'm asking about Fund 21.

That's correct, yes. Because those are – I can – the town can use Fund 21 to – to go towards beach nourishment without a question. There's 100% an assigned expenditure for the accommodations tax fund. So what my comment was was that until we know what the final initial construction cost is, we may have to use every bit of Fund 21 that we have, and if we assign additional recurring expenses to it, and we have to pull from the reserve on that, then we may be in a position where we're gonna have to refactor of it. We talked about at the last meeting reevaluating the rollback program in the upcoming year and looking at what the design of the overall program is going to be and for this board to make some decisions on that. So again, that's That is a decision that the board can certainly make if they want to. You all possess that ability to make that decision to transfer solid waste, the rollback program, into Fund 21 if that's something that the board wants to do.

I think we need, I mentioned this last time, so I think it's an appropriate thing, but I think we need to look at what we're doing first, because I don't think that we should be doing all the little neighborhoods and everything else. If we're really talking about it being a safety issue and stuff like that, then we probably need to focus on more of the main roads. So maybe that's something to look at and restructure the program as a whole for this year and then move the financial responsibilities for next year's budget. And then that gives us the buffer to see where the beach nourishment project starts. And we'll actually have some, hopefully, this winter of Some real numbers on that. I think that's a fair kind of in the middle thing because I do think I don't think we need to be if we're pulling it out of the accommodations tax. I don't think it should be supplying all of the communities as a whole on the island. It should be doing the main roads.

I think that makes more sense because some of those pocketed neighborhoods don't even allow rentals. And so it really doesn't. Yeah, but the main roads, you're talking about South Shore, North Shore, they definitely have tourist renters.

I agree. I think there's a way for us to look at it. I just don't know that this year is the year for us to make that specific change.

And we could have beach renourishment happening in six months.

That's my concern, beach nourishment fund. I want it to stay there for right now. Because we've already talked about looking into this and evaluating. I know Mr. Alameda brought that up last week, too. What does this look like? What does it need to evolve into? I feel like it's something that we do need to address and up, but I don't know that this week is the week.

All right. Well, I'm just... I don't like the idea of the people from Waterside subsidizing tourists on the island. To me, that's what I see, right? But I think you're right. We need to evaluate it. It's $63,000 to $100,000 in the budget. I'm going to stop talking about it. But with the assurance that we're going to include it after all the budget stuff is done, include it as an opportunity to maybe change things.

Yeah, and again, we've committed to bringing back the programmatic adjustments to that if the board wants to start looking at some of those options. And again, when that rollback program was set up, state law does not allow us to charge different customers different rates unless it goes from residential to commercial to industrial. So that's kind of where from the legal advice at that time.

Yeah, the funding mechanism can't be within the trash absent voluntary kind of participation.

You have to charge everybody the exact same thing for the service being provided.

And the other one I just wanted to bring up again, and this bothers me a little bit, is the rush to allocating funds to the ladder truck. I am fully aligned with the concept of us needing a ladder truck. I don't think we have done due diligence in establishing the appropriate mechanism to fund. The proposal currently in the budget is to sequester 2026, 2027 funds that represent the annual debt service payment by moving that money from general revenue to the capital fund. And we're missing a few pieces here. One, if it is an installment contract, we need to understand when does that installment contract fund from the bank. The way the amortization schedule was shared with me, which I don't know if the rest of you have seen it, I asked for it, is that it has to fund by the end of this month. If it doesn't fund at the end of this month, it pushes it into the 27-28 year, in that the first installment happens 12 months after it funds. The other thing is there are other alternatives on how to fund the ladder truck. There are the, other than a straight out private bank loan, and these are potentially lower costs. So that and Even if we were to move that money, we don't have a separate reserve account for that, which is a requirement under general statute, as far as I can understand, in that you can move money into a debt service account for an installment loan. But what you need first is the installment loan, and you need approval from the LGC. And we don't have any of that yet.

Yeah, and you won't. you won't have it until we move forward in the process. Let me start off back up a little bit. When we were talking about the ladder truck, it was requested that we evaluate the financing option of this. So staff sought a amateurization schedule from Civic Credit Union, and that's where that schedule looks. And that is valid for 30, 60 days. This was generated back in March. So that's what the budgeted amount was based on. That's where that $358,000 comes from in a 10-year payback schedule. That is paying $880,000 in interest over that 10-year term. And then we looked at, okay, well, how much is offset by making annual payments or whatever the payment schedule would be when that money is drawn down and we invest that money. So that difference after 10 years becomes, it goes from 880,000 additional to about 300 some thousand additional because of the interest that we are earning on the money sitting in the bank. We're still paying an additional 300 and some thousand dollars for that fire truck by financing it. The other item that we looked at was the, I call it a lease purchase sort of option that some vendors will entertain. They typically have a lender that they team up with. So one of the three manufacturers offers this through a third party financing agency. And that third party financing agency can write off the interest that's earned on the lease So therefore they're able to provide a better rate to the municipality. Um, we don't know exactly what that rate would be. We will shop around rates if, if the town decides to finance something, but looking at the, at the really basic math, not getting into it and to any, any crazy analysis on it, you're still going to pay about 15% more on that purchase over a lease term just depends on on how many years that looks like the interest rate might be lower. And at the end of that term, the asset is, is titled to the town. You're not, we're not going to lease it and give it back. That's just not how, how we would do that process. So the third option then becomes, okay, well is the asset then just purchased outright with cash? you can use the CIP funding to pay for the full amount of the fire truck. And then depending on how that is set up, are you paying a million dollars the first year, whatever the discount that you see on that is basically just the interest that you're not paying on the, on the, uh, what you have paid them. So if it's two and a half, you're paying interest on one and a half. If you put a million down, those are the savings that you would see by paying those installment sort of on that schedule. So that's where it all comes from, from the baseline of, okay, well, this is civic federal credit union. They lend to local governments. This is the rate, you know, 5% or five and a half percent, I think is five and a half percent. And that's where the best guess for budgeting based on a financing of the asset for 10 year term comes into play.

And I agree. The question is when is the first installment going to be due? And we are proposing in our budget that it will be in the 26-27 budget year. And I don't believe that's an accurate reflection. It will be in the 27-28 budget year. There is no way to put all the pieces into play in time to have the first installment. So I'm not asking for us not to pay for the fire truck. All I'm saying is to budget it in the budget year in which the actual encumberment of funds will occur. Because it's an installment contract and not a for cash payment type thing, it doesn't live in the CIP. It lives in its own fund.

Yeah, I'll be happy to reach back out to the Civic and other lending institutions to determine when that payment would be due if the board decides to finance it. That may be a decision that this board says we don't want to finance it and pay the additional interest on that. on that loan. That is something that, that this board is going to have to make that decision on. But if we do not make a, a effort to budget what potential payment would be coming due is, is a red flag to the local government commission. If we know we have an expenditure coming up and that payment is potentially due next year and we don't budget for it, that's going to be an issue.

Uh, uh, I'm going to respectfully disagree. I don't think it's financially possible for that to happen because of the timing. If this were March, then I would say absolutely. But it's not. We're in the middle of June. Well, beginning of June. So I'm concerned that the opposite will happen in that if we do do this and don't have the appropriate budgeting accounts for it, that we'll be dinged by the auditor for doing it in a way that.

So if I'm not mistaken, and I'll look to Melissa in the back, you can nod yes or no. if this board pursues funding the fire truck, as I know you all are, then we're going to set up a separate fund to be able to make payments over multiple fiscal years as like a project fund. Am I mistaken on that?

That's the requirement under 159, yes.

But we don't set up a project fund until a budget is adopted, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Which requires us to have some type of a contract or MOU or letter of intent from the vendor.

Absolutely, yes.

We don't have any of those.

We're working on getting the final specifications so that we can get accurate bids from multiple vendors and that they're bidding on the same thing for each vendor.

Oh, absolutely. That's the process we should be following. Multiple vendors, same specification list, compare, contrast, select, then budget and fund.

Can I ask a question real quick? Yes. Sorry. the three 58 is basically the minimum amount that we could potentially spend in the event that we decided to finance the fire truck. But if we decide to pay cash, then sometime once we get a contract with somebody, we are going to have to give them some money upfront, I would assume.

Yeah. So in order to get them started, um, and that's, again, if you're going to pay for CA pay with it in cash, then Again, we'd have to run the numbers and this is what we would anticipate doing is running the numbers to bring this decision back to y'all after the budget is adopted. Is that what makes more financial sense? So if you pay a million down, we keep two and a half in the keep one and a half in the bank is the interest earning on that one and a half offsetting the interest that's being accrued. through the vendor of the fire truck, whoever that is.

So if we decide not to finance right now, all we're doing is setting aside $358,000 out of the budget, but we could be spending up to a million dollars this year.

Or the full amount of basically you're paying for the asset in today's cost versus delaying that purchase for three years. I'm assuming the vendor is going to want some sort of payment in order to start customizing a Surf City ladder truck.

What we're doing by moving the $358,000 is setting the smallest amount possible aside so that we've got something set aside to be able to pay for the

I couldn't say that it's the smallest amount because, again, the – It's a guesstimate based on what potential payments could be down the road. Based on a lending institution, a financial institution that had given us a rate and schedule, yes.

Would you say that what we're doing or what is proposed is a – prudent preparation for a future purchase that we know we're going to make.

Well, sure. If it's based on anticipated payments, absolutely. Absolutely. Because again, when I started looking at the longterm of this, um, you know, if you, if, if this board pays cash for a ladder truck at 2.7 million, there still needs to be a mechanism in which we are still contributing back to the capital improvement fund in order to fund other future capital improvement needs, whether that's, uh, fire trucks or police cars or, uh, buildings or whatever capital assets in which the town is, it's necessary for us to pursue.

So that was my understanding. I, the way I see it, the way I feel is this is the board and this is the town preparing for the future.

Well, and, Kennedy, I agree. We need to be prepared to fund our ladder truck. The problem I'm having is in the process. North Carolina General Statute 159.13.2 sets up how to do installments. North Carolina General Statute 160A20E1 and 2 requires an LGC approval prior to executing a contract. And you need to have, in Section 15920, you need to have a debt service account. We don't have any of those things. I'm just trying to follow rules.

I understand. Is there anything that you've heard? We're not following the rules.

No, because once the budget gets adopted, then we go through that process of setting up the accounts and, and accepting the debt service liability. to be in line with the LGC and with state statutes.

I agree.

I would follow the rules also.

I've taken the stance that I find that the North Carolina general statute would frown upon the process that is being included in our current budget.

Is that something that we can look into then? Is that something that we need legal to look into? We can interpret our, but that sounds like it's a legal question.

I'd like to just bring this to a close. I'm sorry, but I don't think we're doing it correctly. And I am not supportive of this particular allocation in this year's budget the way it's designed. As such, if it remains in there, I'm going to have to vote no on the budget acceptance. So just as an awareness, and I'm done talking, you guys, you figure it out, Mr. Brewer, Melissa, you know, the attorney, and if you disagree with me, I'm fine with that. I just wanted to... Make my position clear. I'm uncomfortable.

I'd like to ask a question. Quick question. John. This isn't the first time we've purchased a fire truck, correct? No. Before I was on council, I know we got two. Did we follow the same procedure to get those two?

So I can only... I don't know. I don't want to, I don't want to, I believe those were bought for cash. They were bought with cash. Yeah. So again, you, yes, it's just a single purchase. And again, we're not precluding that this process is going to not be a purchase with cash. We don't, we don't know that. But, um, again, for the sake of going through the process, I assure the board, we will continue to do our due diligence. I will work with the attorney and the finance director. to give this board assurance. Brett is a fantastic attorney. I think that he is going to be able to make sure that we're steered in the right direction so we are not being held liable for breaking the law.

We have contacts at the LGC that we can get an opinion from them just to reiterate whatever conclusion we come with.

I just feel confident you're doing what you're supposed to do. And I'm good with it.

So, and again, I would never, um, I wouldn't think you would, I would never, you know, knowingly do anything that is illegal in this process. And I'm confident that we will make sure that all, all T's are crossed and all eyes are dotted. And I will assure this board that we will have some level of legal memorandum back to you so that you can adopt a budget in full faith and confidence. at least from a legal side. Agreement with funding and et cetera is a whole different story, but I don't want to steer this board in any direction that is not on the straight and narrow. I assure you that.

I've said this before, but I think between you, Melissa, and our attorney, I have full confidence in what you're doing.

And I, and I, again, and I'll finish with it. I've, I truly, I value the input of, of, of the entire board in this process. And, um, you know, we'll continue to, to track things down as, uh, so you all can be comfortable in the decisions that you make.

Cause this is not something we're voting on tonight. We're already decided we'll vote on. Oh yeah, no, we're not voting. But we have something that's brought to the attention and we know some, some circling around that we need to do and a little bit more information that would make us comfortable.

Thank you, Mr. Brewer. Thank you.

Thank you, Kyle, for clarifying, and Melissa for your hard work on your due diligence on the fire truck. So we look forward to hearing back from you as well. So let's move on to the next item on the agenda. We did.

I thought we closed public comment. We did.

No, we closed the public hearing. So item number two is annexation, and it's the top sole property management. And Carla will present this item.

Mayor, we received a petition to annex three parcels. The total acreage is 1.51 acres. from Topsail Property Management. The owner is Steve Smith, who owns the adjacent property where Smith Dental sits now on Highway 50. We've been through the process. We've advertised. It has gone to Planning Board. Planning Board recommendation is C3, Extended Commercial District. If there's any questions, I will do my best to answer.

All right. Thank you, Carla. Do I have a motion to open the public hearing?

I'll make a motion to open the public hearing, Mayor.

I'll second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed, same sign. Motion carries to open the public hearing. If anyone has any questions, now is your time to ask. Hearing that and seeing that there are no public comments, do I have a motion to close the public hearing?

I'll make a motion to close the public hearing, Mayor.

I'll second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed, same sign. Motion carries. It is requested at this time the town council consider approval of the annexation as presented. Do I have a motion to do so?

I will make a motion to do so, Mayor.

I'll second. I have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, same sign. Motion carries. Next item is a zoning text amendment on short-term rentals. And our planning director, Jeremy Smith, will submit.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Yes, sir.

Members of council, for you on the agenda is a zoning text amendment. An amendment proposed by staff to add short-term rentals as a permitted use in the C1 and MU zoning districts. That's Central Business District and mixed use. Upon the adoption of the new zoning ordinance in November 2024, prior to that, short-term rentals were an unlisted permitted use. When the new ordinance was adopted, short-term rentals was defined and identified as a distinct lane use and permitted in all residential zones. staff believes that it was an oversight not to include short-term rentals in the mu zoning districts and the c1 zoning districts as residential is also allowed in those zoning districts specifically there are approximately 538 residential properties zoned mixed use there's approximately 138 residential properties zoned central business district c1 This amendment is supported by our strategic plan and is identified as an important lane use in our comprehensive lane use plan based on surveys done when that plan was updated. Staff presented this to the planning board, and along with the planning board, staff is recommending approval of this proposed text amendment. Staff will be happy to answer any questions that the board may have.

Thank you, Jeremy.

Thank you.

Do I have a motion to open the public hearing?

I'll make a motion to open the public hearing there.

Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, same sign. Public hearing is now open. Does anyone have any comments concerning the public hearing? Yes, sir. Please come up. Please come up and state your name and address, please.

McCusker 1016 South Topsail Drive. How does it help the residents?

I would say that there's a number of uses that existed, number of locations prior to the ordinance that were used in a short-term rental fashion. And the adoption of that zoning ordinance created several non-conformities, and this is an effort to correct that. So it would benefit those properties to continue to be used as they've been used historically.

Thank you.

Thank you.

This is strictly house cleaning?

I believe so, yes.

OK. So there's pockets that currently, with our new amendment that we did, or ordinances that we did, that just got excluded from being allowed to do short-term rentals, even though they'd always happen there. It's just verbiage that didn't get carried over. So there's short-term rentals happening in all of these places right now. But the way that it's written, it technically shouldn't be allowed to happen. just cleaning it up so that they're not currently not conforming to the zoning requirements. So like in the Central Business District, if there's a house in there, there's plenty of small homes in there that people rent short-term. Technically, the way the ordinance is written, it doesn't allow for that. But it's always happened. It always should have happened. It just didn't get passed along when we did the new ordinances and defined what a short-term rental is in our verbiage.

So if we really don't clean this up, is there any action that we would have to take against some of those people?

And one, it becomes a tracking nightmare, so to speak, trying to determine when a property ceases to be a short-term rental. We would have to try to document it either through utilities or verifying, hey, where are the long-term owners, and then establishing that when does that grandfathering go away.

Was this helping some of our staff not have quite as much work on their plate, like it's going to clean up?

Yes, it would, but I do believe that short-term rentals are a huge economic driver for the town of Surf City. And looking at that identification of the new years with the adoption of the zoning ordinance in November 24, I believe is intended to be allowed in any zoning district that had residential in it.

answer your question.

I believe in eighth grade English and math. So it allows you to track it better and ensure that those people who are doing short term rentals are paying the appropriate accommodations taxes because they're doing short term rentals or were they previously not paying?

No, we rewrote some things and renamed some things. And just in the paperwork process, when it carried over, because we put new definitions in for what short-term rentals are, it didn't carry over to allow them for these two specific zoning areas. But it had always been allowed in those zoning areas, just the way that the ordinance was written. It was an error in verbiage. It's cleanup. We're not changing anything or doing anything.

We're letting people continue to do what they've always done. It's cleaning up the language so things can continue to carry on as they've always carried on.

So no positive or negative impact on taxes coming in from those?

It doesn't really change anything. It's just a definition cleanup. It is helping us keep everybody in compliance.

There is a downstream externality that Mr. Kennedy and I discussed briefly, is that the Island Town Center concept is located within the C1 business district zoning. And it has some unique opportunities in terms of density. In C1 now, you can have 100% lot coverage. uh... however twenty four when ordinance was rewritten we reestablished the need for parking so now if you allow uh... a motel or whatever in in in the sea one or bed-and-breakfast you need have parking but if you stick it in there but you want to make on street parking for the central business district There's a complication going forward. I would certainly support the MU change. I'm concerned that without an ITC, without that plan, changing C1 to allow more. Now, we can't get rid of what's already there. That's a grandfather kind of situation. But to allow more to be created, I think, complicates further what we do with the ITC. So I would prefer to have just MU approved in the language, leave the C1 as is, and then see what the Island Town Center concept looks like before we change what C1 is allowed to do.

There's currently residential in the Island Town Center.

It's a non-conforming use, which if it continues is simply a non-conforming use.

We have all the dry stacks separate to their consorts considered short-term rentals.

They're there. They're non-conforming, but they're not illegal.

We're trying to clean it up and make it legal.

And my concern is with C1, it then ties our hands a little bit in what the Island Town Center can look like.

I know we discussed this before, one point of clarity, is that residential uses are not granted that 100% lot coverage. The ordinance does restrict them to the 40%. No, I understand. I just wanted that.

I didn't want that to be out there.

We don't see the trend. I've discussed with many potential buyers of properties in the C1 district. I don't see the continued development of new single-family in C1. It's just very limited. But it does present a tough code enforcement position, especially with some new properties that I know that they were built for the short-term rental under the prior ordinance. And there is that concern with creating nonconformities with certain state statutes that our new ordinance created nonconformities that could get the town in some legal troubles, per se. That's always a concern.

Yeah. Clearly, in 2024, we created a conflict for ourselves. And I understand the administrative reason to fix this. I'm concerned that it impacts on the ITC flexibility that we have. So I would approve the MU change. I would reserve judgment on the C1 change until we have an ITC plan.

Thank you. Are there any other comments during this public hearing?

I would think for ITC, we've got a limited amount of single family there. And people bought those properties with the intention to short term. And if they want to sell them, and they can only use it as long term living situations, then that minimizes the ability for them to potentially sell their property down the road, which I think is kind of not an appropriate thing for us to do. Ever. Even if we change rules when we develop the ITC, I don't think there should ever be a play where we tell people they can't short-term rent a house because it's in the Island Town Center. I don't think that that's an appropriate language or mechanism to force people into something.

Are there any other comments? Hearing no other comments, is there a motion to close the public hearing?

Yes, Mayor. I'll make a motion to close the public hearing.

I'll second. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. It is requested that the town council consider approval of the zoning text amendment. Do I have? All in favor, say aye.

We just need a vote on the close. You had a motion and a second to close the public hearing.

A motion and a second. We had a motion and a second to close the public hearing.

Yes, ma'am. We just need a vote on that.

All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed, same sign. Motion carried. It is requested that town council consider approval of the zoning text amendment as presented. Do I have a motion to do so?

I'll make a motion to do so, Mayor.

I'll second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed, same sign?

No. Or aye.

Motion carries. Next item on the agenda is also a public hearing, and it is the rezoning of 2103 North New River Drive. And Jeremy will present again.

Madam Mayor, I do know a couple individuals on this board have an interest in this matter because of their jobs, their realtors, and this is a piece of property that I think is up for sale. Those two people have asked that they have the ability to recuse themselves, and that's Madam Mayor, then Hugh Kennedy as well. So I'd ask for the rest of the board to make a motion to allow those two folks to recuse themselves from this. Who's going to run the meeting? I'll make that motion. She has appointed me to do so. That's right.

I'll second the motion. I made the motion too.

Okay, we've got a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? All right, with that said, those two members will not be at all deliberating in this or providing comments. So if Mr. Kennedy and Madam Mayor, if you guys can just sit there like the rest of the public during this presentation. All right, Mr. Smith.

Thank you, Mr. Attorney and members of the board. This is a rezoning of properties at 2103 and 2107 North New River Drive. 2103, most of you know, is Hula's Bar and Lounge. And 2107 North New River is an undeveloped tract with a protected body of water on it. The property at 2103 is .679 acres and it is, or I'm sorry, .631 acres and zoned C1. The property at 2107 is .679 acres and is currently zoned MHS, mobile home subdivision. This request was submitted by Surf City Soundside LLC, Mr. Larry Wolf, and is a request to rezone both properties from MHS and C1 to mixed use. Properties at 2101 and 2111 are zoned mixed use. 2111 is the current Revival Bar and Lounge and 2101 is the satellite parking for Surf City Line. Surf City Line is located at 2112 North New River and is currently zoned C1. Star Villas townhomes directly across the street from 2103 is zoned mixed use. And properties on 9th Street are zoned Mobile Home Manufactured Housing Subdivision, MHS. The CAMA Lane Use Plan identifies 2103, the Hula site, as Island Transitional and the 2107 parcel as Island Residential. Staff would back up to the current zoning of C1. As you're aware, C1 zoning stands for Central Business District. Staff is adamant that C1 does not belong anywhere but in the Island Town Center area. That is the Rowland Avenue, North Shore, North Topsail area. So I look at this proposed rezoning as an effort to also clean up some past zoning issues. I just wanted to say that because that is something that I briefly touched on with the planning board when this was presented to them. This is a straight rezoning. It is not conditional. The planning board heard this request at their May meeting. and identified several policies in the Comprehensive Land Use Plan that support the rezoning. Policies 5.1a, 5.1b, and 5.1t all finding support. Those deal with matching zoning with harmony of the adjacent area and current zoning within the area. Mr. Wolf is not in attendance tonight. However, his surveyor, Mr. Charles Riggs, is in attendance and would be happy to answer any questions with staff. Again, the planning board and staff are recommending approval with policies 5.1a, 5.1b, and 5.1t supporting this rezoning request from C1 and MHS to mixed use. I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Thank you, Mr. Smith. Thank you. At this time, I'd entertain a motion to go into public hearing.

I'll make a motion to go into public hearing.

I'll second. All right.

All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? All right. We're in public hearing. If there's anybody from the public that would like to comment, now's the time. And I know you've stated your name before, but if you could go ahead and give your name and address for this hearing as well.

Tracy Rainer, 7012 7th Street. I'm just wondering, I know who owns Hula's, and I'm wondering if they are aware of this rezoning request and how they feel about it.

They are required by law to sign off on the rezoning request, and we have the rezoning certification signed by Mr. Dennis Miller. Yes, ma'am.

Is there. So I guess Mike my concern and I don't have a dog in this fight, but I guess my concern is is that where you're saying 2107 that's behind who lives. I don't know how that would be considered on North New River Drive, but And that land, then, is in the backyards of the people who live on the right side of 9th Street. So if you create a multi-use, what can be built there that might not make those neighbors happy?

So that property with the body of water on it.

Oh, it is only a body of water?

It's very limited on how it could be developed.

Both has indicated the staff while this is a straight rezoning has no desire to impact that body of water. They would have to go through both the Army Corps of Engineers and division of coastal management to impact it in any way they would I would think if the rezoning was done, they would move that lot line closer to it to make the Hula's property larger for redevelopment. Any redevelopment of the Hula site that backs up to the residential properties on 9th Street would be required to put in a vegetative buffer, which they do not have currently.

Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Anybody else? Mr. Riggs.

Even your one Charles Riggs follow to your street Jacksonville as the surveyor for Mister Wolf we prepared the application for rezoning and in the application we have a signed authorization by Dennis Miller it's in there as you look at that online you'll see that secondly we also have a survey map illustrating the property As stated before, if you look at their zoning map, we have residential to the west, to the north, to the east, and across the street. So this property is surrounded by manufactured home subdivision, MU, and the only C1 is the property itself. So we're looking to eliminate the C1 because it is not in harmony with the remainder of the property. Rezoning this to MU would make this property in harmony with the surrounding properties. This rezone would be consistent with the future land use plan, the comprehensive plan. I think Jeremy stated all that. So we're requesting that. That structure was built in 1976. And we're looking to clean that up. So that area, that is. So I'm here tonight to answer any questions you might have. It is a straight rezone. I have investigated wetlands, the piece in the back that has the pond on it. We can't develop that. That's just going to sit there. The majority of the property in the front, which is 2103, the pond in the back is 2107, I believe. The tract in front is primarily impervious. The driveway is concrete, asphalt, then you've got your building. So there's approximately 25,000 square feet of existing impervious on the property. So I'll be glad to answer any questions, I guess, after the public meeting, at the public hearing, if you have any. Thank you.

Thanks, Mr. Rick. Anybody else from the public? I have one point. OK.

Mr. Miller's notarized certification is in your agenda. It is behind the survey in your agenda that was signed and notarized. That is a state requirement for any rezoning that is petitioned by someone who is not the owner.

Yes, ma'am.

I need to state my name again?

Go ahead. Okay.

So I know that this land is for sale. So that pretty much tells me he's wanting to develop it. And I'm curious as to what exactly he's wanting to put there.

I would leave it to Mr. Riggs to share any information on that. But this is a straight rezoning. So potential development has no point on this in terms of it could be anything that's allowed in the mixed-use zoning district if it was successfully rezoned. The mixed-use zoning district and the C1 have a very large commonality with commercial uses that they both allow. The biggest difference is the mixed-use zoning district also allows different residential types at higher densities.

So when you say higher densities, you mean like townhomes?

Townhomes. I do not foresee this being able to be built for multifamily. It just could not meet the density requirements. Staff has evaluated. You might be able to get, if you could maximize the property and meet open space requirements for a subdivision, for a townhome development, maybe 10 homes, 10 to 14, just depending on how it was laid out.

Or a motel, hotel?

That is, yes, but that's currently allowed in C1 and next year. So it could be redeveloped for a hotel, motel as it currently exists.

But it wouldn't be allowed in MHS?

No.

So, and... Can I talk or do I have to wait until we...

I don't have the gavel, so you keep going. I'm just joking. I'm just joking. I'm just going to give you the gavel in a minute.

Watch out. But MHS, you can't put a motel on there? No, you cannot. Okay.

The highest density in MHS right now is two-unit attached duplex or a two-townhome attached single family.

Is there an intention then to combine those two lots once they're...

I believe there is an intention to do a recombination to shift that property line closer to the body of water.

We're going to redraw the property, combine them so that we have more footprint for whatever. And it's non-contiguous with any other C1. So moving C1 to MU is probably less problematic. And I understand there were neighborhood meetings.

There was a neighborhood meeting on April 28th. We had a handful of folks from 9th Street attend. And not to just speak in generalities, but the overriding, glad to see Hula's tear down. I mean, just to be frank, that was the overriding comment because there has been a history of noise complaints and noise issues with that development.

So replacing it with townhomes or something like that would be a positive for that?

Residential development would definitely be more harmonious with the area. Okay. especially considering Star Villas, the town and development is directly across the street.

And then we don't have a problem from land use planning that some of it is residential, the other is traditional residential versus?

No, sir, I do not believe so. Okay. That's fine.

Yes, sir. I'm good. Thank you.

I have a question on the sewer capacity. I don't know if that's a you question or a price question. But currently, so we have one commercial building there that is, I'm guessing, allocated through our commercial allocations. But in the event that they do something that's residential, then how does that shift happen? And is there a maximum based on what they can do if it does become a residential development?

I will let Mr. Price say on that change. I will say that sewer is available. It's on Wassell Water, Townsend City Sewer.

Good evening, council. The wastewater allocation policy doesn't apply to this because that only applies to new capacity after 2024. In these situations, what occurs is we take the calculation for the commercial and convert that into equivalent calculation for residential they don't get any additional capacity it's just whatever is allocated to them under commercial which in this case would be max density number of seats within the restaurant um it'd be converted into the new calculation which would be 75 gallons per bedroom okay and do we so based on that is there a rough idea of how many units they could possibly put if they were going to do residential i guess the max would be 14 14 units okay

And essentially, they're using the same thing that they're using sewer-wise if it continued to be Hula's or whatever? That's correct. So we're not pulling potential sewer use from another residential situation so that they can ?

Based on the calculation, it's the same. Realistically, like I said, I don't know if Hula's packed every night. I don't know if he's going to be using a max every night. That's hard to tell. But per the state calculation, it'd be using the same. OK.

And then if for some reason they wanted to do more than 14, what happens?

It would be placed on the wait list. And they would also qualify for the allocation policy at that point.

Anybody else? Mr. Riggs wants to come back up. Earl Riggs.

I just want to let you know that the only conversations or discussions I've had with Mr. Wolf have been townhomes.

Okay.

Thank you.

Mr. Smith's last point of clarity is that 14 is that is that would be the maximum but because of open space rules amenities requirements it'd be tough to do 14 I don't see that happening but that would be the maximum it could be designed if it could meet the open space requirements for subdivision amenities and access fire access and whatnot and buffering so

And you mentioned there's no vegetation between those properties now, unlike the people who back up to it. But then that could be required of the future development.

Yes. Right. Yes, ma'am. 288 Atkinson Point Road. So that means that hulas could expand? Get bigger and louder?

Actually. Mixed use would prohibit that because mixed use has a spacing for bar and lounge. And Revival was right at the corner of New River and Scotch Bonnet. And that actually creates a nonconformity here. If it gets rezoned, it doesn't meet that spacing anymore. So no, hula's would not be able to expand.

Pretty sure my picture's still on the wall inside there somewhere.

Anybody else? Okay, seeing none, entertain a motion to close the public hearing.

I'll make a motion to close the public hearing, Mr. Attorney.

I'll second.

All in favor?

Aye. Any opposed? All right, and now it's for your consideration, the town council's asked to consider approval of the rezoning as presented. I'll make that motion, Mr. Attorney.

I'll second.

All right, got a motion and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Thank you.

All right.

No, we don't have to get voted back in.

OK, next item on the agenda is old business.

It was requested, this item was presented, the budget ordinance amendment CIP fund 10 transfer. This item was presented at our workshop for consent. However, it did not get passed. So it is requested tonight that we entertain a motion for approval. If all are in favor, do I have a motion to accept?

I'll make a motion to accept as presented.

I'll have a second. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?

I think it's clear what my position is. Absolutely, a fund balance policy, moving this amount of money from the general revenue fund into the CIP fund, I find that to be problematic. It reduces the amount of transparency and visibility of allocations. It gives a false Impression that we have plenty of CIP money. That is money that we can spend on the capital investments, be they multi-use paths, be they fire trucks, be they buildings and things like that. So I would prefer to leave it where it is, move it on a project by project basis. Thank you.

Any other discussion?

Um, I just want to clarify if we're moving this, if we move this to the capital improvement fund, there's still discussion that has to come before council to spend anything out of that. It's not just a, yeah.

So excuse me. Um, so any, we have multiple layers of policy with this and, and, First and foremost, things that go on to the CIP, you all are approving that process. And then just because something sits in a CIP doesn't mean that the expenditure can be made without council approval. We have a purchasing policy that anything over $90,000 requires council to approve that purchase. So anything that comes out of here, unless it's a Vehicle that have been budgeted through the budget process and already identified to be funded out of the CIP you know that that could be something that is purchased without coming back, but you take a Hundred thousand dollar piece of equipment that purchase still has to come before you to be approved and then Just for clarification for public what do we have?

What is our intended spending this budget out of our capital improvement? I

Oh. Sorry. No, it's OK. Thank you, Melissa.

1,188,000.

yes and that includes the the items listed within the budget uh budget through the adoption process minus the uh disaster response trailer that's going to come out of the disaster fund disaster operations fund but this is in addition to sir right we're transferring 2.3

Oh, yes, yes. This is... Plus 1.18. That's correct, yes. Plus 1 million in change, 1.2 million for the... Police department. For the police department sale. Yes, sir. So that is 1, 2, 3, 4 million, almost $5 million. Correct. Okay. So we're taking $5 million and moving it into a CIP plan that we know we're going to spend $1.2 million of it this year or this coming year. So we have less clarity on what's being spent further down the road.

That goes through the prioritization process that we did this year. I understand.

But we have less clarity. We have some. I mean, we're going to get $180,000 for three more police vehicles, and we're probably going to add some other things. I mean, those are standard. However, there are other things that may come up that we don't know about.

Yes. Well, and again, I'll take this opportunity is that We strive to think about items that are going to be on the horizon that would meet the threshold of a large capital expenditure. So we develop a CIP plan. It's not engineer cost estimates on every item just because we don't have the money to do the engineer cost estimate. It's only if the council says, yes, we want to fund this in the budget year is when those things would occur after the budget gets adopted.

I understand. We were concerned about $63,000 out of tourism that wouldn't be available to fund beach nourishment, but we're less concerned about $5 million that won't be available to fund beach nourishment.

I'm more concerned about tourism, whether or not it was going to create red flags and whether or not it was going to be needed for beach nourishment.

Then I misheard Mr.

Brewer's comment. You may have heard it correctly, but I didn't hear it that way.

Thank you. I think CIP planning is planning long term for our future. I think it's discipline. I think it's showing responsibility of planning for these kids sitting on the front row. So we had a motion and a second.

I'd like to add one more thing. I just want to say it a different way. The check and balance is The board has to vote on what that money's spent on. It doesn't just go in a fund and somebody with staff say, I think I'm going to go buy a new car. I don't like the car I'm driving. I'm going to request a new car. It doesn't work that way. It has to be voted on. It has to check and balance. We agree on it. Or the board agrees on it, whatever that board looks like at the time. Then the money's allocated.

Just like Mr. Brewer said, there's multiple layers of policies for this.

So there is a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, same sign.

Aye.

Motion carries. Next item, item number six, is the budget ordinance amendment, CIP fund. So the money is coming out of Fund 10 and transferring into Fund 80. And it is requested at this time that the town council consider approval of the budget ordinance amendment as presented. Do I have a motion to do so?

I'll make a motion to accept it as presented, Mayor.

Second. There's a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign.

Aye.

Motion carries. Next item under new business now is item number seven, and it is site plan approval for Dandelion Commercial Highway 210. And Jeremy will present again.

Madam Mayor, members of the council, before you on this agenda item is a major site plan request submitted by Title Development Company, LLC, Mr. Mike Ellis. Some of you may recall this property from the November 25 town council meeting where it was rezoned to C3 conditional zoning. The current major site plan submittals a request for 87,600 square foot. Multi use complex that would include retail office and flex spaces over 5 buildings. In the properties and see 3 conditional zoning property to the north is an office and institutional. This is directly across from the Cape for your community college or city campus which is an office and institutional. Further to the north is a commercial shopping centers and see 3 in the Palisades apartment complex zone multifamily cluster. Remaining properties in the area are within in the counties in district is and residential performance. before you on the screen in your agenda is the proposed site plan. Again, this is proposed on two properties totaling 8.7 acres. These properties would have to be recombined prior to the issuance of a certificate of occupancy. People point the plan follows the approved conditional zoning. They have completed a T I a which is required as part of the conditional zoning that traffic impact analysis has been approved by ncdot is required several improvements. A southbound turn lane into the site on 210. An internal 100 foot protected stem and a full access drive with one ingress lane that's coming into the site and two dedicated egress lanes exiting the site. One dedicated right and one that would allow through traffic directly across from Cape Fear Community College or to the right towards US Highway 17. And finally, they were required to align their proposed driveway with that of Cape Fear Community College. TRC has reviewed this major site plan. This is a by-right use per the conditional zoning. The plan meets town ordinances and town specifications. The planning board reviewed this project at their May 2026 meeting and has recommended approval. Representatives of the developer and their engineers are in attendance and will be happy to answer any questions that the board may have with this proposed major site plan.

Thank you.

I want to just thank Mr. Brewer and Mr. Smith for providing me the clarity when I asked the dumb questions again. And something I think our folks should know, and this is a very strong positive, is the multi-use path that runs by there will now be paid for by the developer. So we'll have a 10-foot wide asphalt multi-use path from across that whole stretch of property that the town won't have to pay for and I've gotten assurances and I think Mr. Smith will make sure that this happens before they get the occupancy permit they'll have that path in absent NCDOT getting in the way and there will be a safety strip between the turn lane and the multi-use path so that we don't have kids riding right up against the road. So it's a positive for the community. And I think the development itself is quite interesting. It's in the right area for that kind of development. And so I'm happy with that. Thank you so much for your hard work. And it's a positive step forward.

I have some of the normal questions that most people have. I mean, like, when you had a neighborhood meeting, what were some of the concerns and comments? I think there's been concerns maybe of noise and of traffic. And I know that some of the the turn the turning lane and the neighbor, the driveway alignment will is a way to address that.

So we have the neighborhood meeting with the conditional reasoning request and it you know if the proposed site plan a different different drastically we would require them to hold a separate neighborhood meeting. But yes, in that net concern of noise was addressed with the conditional reasoning they will be putting in a 20 foot type the buffer around the entire property. And that is 20 foot vegetative, two large canopy trees, three understory trees, and seven shrubs every 100 feet. Plus, Mike, I believe we've identified a fence as well on there in some sections.

Yeah.

I don't think it's on the site for me.

Right.

I remember when they had that public meeting, I was there. I was one of the people that showed up to go to that. I think there was one individual that had some questions, but I believe that that's been taken care of. But other than that, it was a very positive impact by the residents around.

The buffer will buffer it. And I may be incorrect on the fence, confusing it with another project that the board will see in the future. But the Type B is our second most strictest project. Vegetative buffer and when fully grown it will create a very good solid vegetative wall.

I've seen the site before and after that Mr. Ellis has developed before. And he's done an outstanding job on the property that he has on Highway 210 with the boat storage as far as his landscaping and all the requirements that I remember the planning board and this council was very hard on him with.

Yes. I did bring that up. I mean, they did a good job with the vegetation of that property, and I was just, I know they know how to do it because it's been shown, but I was just seeing what the conversations have been around that.

Their landscape plan is part of your agenda packet, and it is definitely reflective of the new adopted ordinance and the landscaping requirements in that ordinance.

I'm thinking spring of 2027 is when the DOT project is supposed to take place. Do you see this project coming within that same time period so everything could? Because DOT will be doing, hopefully, the multi-use path throughout that Watts Landing curve.

that they will be working with the T closely and some of the improvements that they are required to are actually part of the in T in CDOT project so it will be a combined use where if they get ahead of schedule and get in they may put in those improvements and then what could be reimbursed by in CDOT because it's already incorporated in their project and that will come more to light when they make their official application for their in CDOT driveway permit

Any other questions?

I have a comment. I'm just looking at the proposed photographs, and it looks pretty nice. It's very well. The whole concept of storefronts look good. Good job, Mr. Ellis.

If there are no other questions or discussion, it is requested that the town council consider approval of the site plan as presented.

Mayor, I'll make a motion to approve it as presented.

I'll second.

I have a motion and a second. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

All those opposed, same sign. Motion carries. Thank you. All right. At this time, we will move to our manager's report. And I think Kyle has some good news.

Mm-hmm. For once, thank you, Mayor and Council. A ton of projects going on throughout town, internally and externally. First one, just want to start off with the Waterline Resilience Project. As you know, this is a very complex project and it touches many areas of town, but the pipework from The 5210 intersection connecting to Well 6 has been completed. The next step in that portion of the project is to construct the permanent well on the site. On the island side of the project, contractors have completed the first block of the project down to Stevens Street by installing the new water line. They continue to work south on that project and progressing a little bit slower than we had anticipated, but we will entrust that they are taking their time and doing good quality work. Mecklenburg and North Topsail stormwater project. You know, a lot of logistics going into this. Just want to thank Mr. Price and the Utilities Department for coordinating it. It affects the residents up there, and we are trying to get that done as soon as possible. But significant progress is made on that project. Papers are approximately 60 to 70 percent completed, along with the completion of the bioswales along Mecklenburg Avenue. The focus is getting the intersection back open, which will occur as soon as the pavers are completed and testing can occur. From there, staff will work to obtain plantings for the bioswale so the project can be finalized. On the Charlotte Avenue project, so as you know, we've had to go back through redesign on this project to reduce the scope due to financial constraints of completing the initial design. The town received the final design yesterday and are verifying with grant funders that the solution is still viable for construction. Staff has done a good job working with the engineers to reduce scope but still maintain overall effectiveness. The town will look at this as a phase one project with phase two to be designed and implemented at a later date. This would include the installation of infiltration chambers either under the Charlotte Avenue beach access or other solutions but that final redesign includes again, the paver solution, but also some sock drains that will go underneath and catch inlets to try to capture as much stormwater volume as we possibly can in that area. Once again, both those projects that I just talked about are grant funded. The Old Settlers Beach and Canal stormwater, looking in the audience here, so, Infiltration and groundwater testing will be conducted beginning next week to determine advanced design of the stormwater proposal for this area town. Once the engineers receive this information, they'll be able to refine plans, which will then be presented back to the community as a follow-up from our initial meeting. Communication will be sent out to the list that signed up at that meeting, letting them know where we're at with the project. Let's see late last week the town received a draft of the project partnership agreement for the Surf City Beach nourishment project review is underway of the PPA to identify any major changes From the original project partnership agreement that was between Surf City and North Topsail Beach on the Army Corps And we'll get those any major changes changes identified and addressed with the Corps this process is in parallel to the information that sought from the Office of Management and Budget at the federal level, but keeps things moving on that parallel path. So our district has been extremely good to work with in identifying key things that they can control from the district level to keep the project moving forward so that when we do get the word from OMB, we have done the administrative tasks that will be necessary to be that much closer to letting that project out to bid. The VITEX program, so contractors were able to complete all properties in Surf City two weeks ago that were identified on the initial survey and have also provided property owner acknowledgement forms Another assessment and round of treatment will occur closer to fall because the contractors will do two rounds of the treatment of the Vitex. Once again, this is a matching grant from the state under the Coastal Storm Damage Mitigation Fund. It will be a four-year project. We'll have to reapply for those funds. Something that we talked about at our last Topsail and Shoreline Protection Commission meeting was that the second round of grant funding request, all three towns will put in for plantings to go back onto the dunes where Vitex has been eradicated. But once again, as I stress all the time, the town is not gonna come onto anybody's property that has Vitex without property owner acknowledgement. So again, this is a good opportunity for property owners to participate in that program. The town does have ordinances for individual property owners that have VITEX on the property. So it is advantageous to go ahead and get that done. The CAMA Public Access Grant. So I reported last month that the town had submitted a grant application to the Division of Coastal Management to bring public access enhancements to property owned by the town just south of the old police department. I'm pleased to announce that the division has invited the town to submit a final application for funding that will cover the construction of a new seawall, eight foot wide public boardwalk and overlook canoe and kayak launch to handicap parking spaces to regular parking spaces dedicated to the canoe and kayak launch in an area to allow for turnaround. We will work to revise the application and budget that will be due by July 31st. So it's our understanding that being invited back to final application submittal is, essentially assurance of grant funding for that project. Another funding opportunity in which the town is seeking through the Parks and Recreation Department, they're working to apply for a trails grant through the North Carolina State Parks to provide a defined connection between the Earl G. and Inez Batts Recreation Complex. and the ball fields on the adjacent property, as well as a trail around the pond. This is for natural trail development, so no asphalt or pavement would be applied. As the grant is structured, the town is eligible for a no-match grant to fund the construction of that trail. That will also connect into the larger Topsail Island Connector multi-use path which is part of the larger East Coast Greenway and Mountains to Sea Trail. Vector control, so mosquito control. Pender County has begun the preliminary vector control efforts for the season. They have addressed catch inlets that lead to larger water bodies to help prevent the breeding and hatching of mosquito larvae, and will begin spraying for mosquitoes this month. As a reminder, if folks wish to not receive mosquito spraying, they can contact the town or the Pender County Health Department to be placed on the no spray list. And then lastly, as we continuously track legislative activities that range from a myriad of topics, I did want to note House Bill 1113. And that House Bill was filed by Representative Ted Davis of New Hanover County. But then modification was requested by Representative Carson Smith, who is our representative, which would establish a two-year oyster lease moratorium for portions of Pender and Onslow counties. The two-year time frame is directly related to funding in the state budget. to conduct a use compatibility study and provide recommendations on the overall impact of user conflicts and aquaculture activities. So again, a town legislative priority at TISPC legislative priority. So we're happy to see that bill filed. And we feel like being added onto the new Hanover County bill. And then I saw that Carter County has requested to be added onto this bill gives additional momentum for it to, potentially move forward in the legislative process. So with that, I'd be happy to answer any questions from the board.

Thank you. Great job on the grant, Kyle. Yeah. Wellsboro Ave, yes. Good news. Okay, who wants to start? Trudy?

Okay, I'm still making notes. So, yes, I'm grateful.

Oh, I'm sorry. No. I skipped the town. Oh, do you have something to say? I hear Carla down there.

And nothing to say, but we also skipped the public comment. There's another public comment.

After you, you had nothing.

Yeah, I had nothing to say.

So there is a public comment.

Yes.

At the council meeting, yes.

We have a second one. Yes. So now is your chance for another public comment period. Yeah.

Okay.

So if you don't mind, step up to the... Peggy, Peggy, you leaving? You're leaving, Peggy? I'm just going to watch the game. Enjoy the fireworks on July 3rd.

On behalf of the residents on the west side, especially Dawgwood Lakes, the arbors, and the terraces, we thank you for supporting the MUP. That is a project that many residents on the west side would appreciate. It's my pleasure. Second, if you can attract some tenants that will bring quality food to that 17 to 10 corridor, that's also greatly appreciated.

Absolutely. We intend to attract both restaurants and we're we're hopeful for maybe like a medic or urgent care as well to help serve the community. And then all of the back portion of the property will be secondary services like electrical plumbing. You know, we feel that

RETAIL IS SOMEWHAT SATURATED IN SURF CITY AND SO ALL THOSE BACK-END SERVICES THAT HELP YOU KNOW CITIZENS WE'VE HAD SOME GREAT RESTAURANTS OPENING UP RECENTLY OVER IN THE ISLAND IN THE GREAT ESTABLISHMENTS BUT OVER ON THAT 17-10 CORRIDOR WE WOULD LOVE AND THERE ARE A FEW THERE ALREADY WE WOULD JUST LIKE ONE OR TWO MORE NO PROBLEM THANK YOU YEAH THANK YOU Second, the rollback, I think we're making this here more complicated than it needs to be. And Andy, I thank you for recognizing that Westside should not be subsidizing that. I would add Dawgood Lakes, the arbors, the terraces, and many other residents on the Westside. We're not benefiting from that program. So we should not be subsidizing, especially if you're a non-occupant owner. I'm a big believer in personal accountability and responsibility. I've been emailing with Kyle back and forth some suggestions. I even offered to volunteer some of my services if a focus group committee is established. I'd love to be a part of that. Property management accountability. From my understanding, a lot of realtors and property managers refuse to take on that task. I wish I had that ability to refuse on my self-managed properties. I'd be fined out the wazoo if I refused to provide that service. Also, Sunset Beach apparently had that same program and they just notified all of their residents as of June 1st, they'll discontinue. Maybe reach out to Sunset Beach if you have not already and ask why and how they went about it. Fire department, it's another area that I think we're making it a little bit more complicated than it needs to be. I trust that maybe you have a procurement officer or a fire official that's responsible for getting these proposals. I hope that they probably reached out to these EV vendors, manufacturers, and maybe with a list of needs, not once, a list of needs, and gotten back a proposal from these EV manufacturers on what That cost might be, it very well not be 2.7 million, might be 2 million. Also, a lot of these EV vendors, a lot of times they'll have demo trucks that they use throughout the nation that now they're trying to sell at heavily discounted prices. Might not be with all the bells and whistles. that we might need, but we also don't need a parade truck. We need a working truck. So maybe try to find out if there's any demo trucks that they might have that we can benefit at a heavily discounted rate. Also, this dues and subscriptions, I hear a lot of going back and forth with that. Maybe just clarify that a little bit in the future. I know that these dues and subscriptions is not like subscriptions to Netflix or magazines. They're necessary dues and subscriptions that public service needs. Maybe clarify that a little bit better so the public has a better understanding of where those funds are going to. And with that, I yield back.

Any other public comments?

Hi, Cindy Kennedy, 140B James Avenue. I just noticed tonight, one, when you were talking about changing, what is it called, from C1 to C2 or whatever, that you had meetings with the people that lived in that area, and I think that's a great idea. Is that something new that you're just starting to do, or have you always done that?

Community meeting that is part of.

With residents in the area where you were getting ready to change.

That is part of the planning process. When it goes to planning through the planning department, that is part of the process.

Because I remember on the other side of James Avenue when they wanted to change that over there. I don't think our neighborhood was ever contacted to have a neighborhood meeting. We all came to the meeting here, but we were not given. We did not have a neighborhood meeting. I think it's a great idea. So just keep that in mind if it ever comes up again.

All right. Thank you very much.

7012 7th Street. I just want to say thank you, Andy. You were voted into office to be on this council. For the citizens who were frustrated about rising taxes and you wanting to repeal the taxes, and we appreciate. I'm sure I'm not the only person. We appreciate all you've done to turn around and work with Kyle and the rest of the board in order to try to bring down our taxes. I just want you to know that you were voted for a reason, and we appreciate what you've done. As far as the rollback is concerned, we've been here for a lot of years. And initially, when we first bought on the island, we weren't here but every other weekend. You know, this was a fishing community on the island. It was a fishing community. People didn't come and stay, and they had to take their trash home with them. I don't want to have to take my trash home with me. If I leave, and I leave on a Monday, and trash doesn't get picked up until Tuesday, and I don't come back until the following week, it's not fair to the people who who don't rent their homes out but that use their homes a lot but aren't going to necessarily be there on the day that the trash is picked up and therefore not able to turn around and pull it back. I was not in agreement with when they decided that they were going to start charging $4 per trash can to roll it back because we already pay enough taxes and we already pay for services to be provided anyway. So I was not an advocate of having to pay for that additional rollback service. I was happy that when the city decided to do what they did and decided across the board that you guys were going to do that in order to prevent people from being fined for having their trash cans out by the road until the next week they came back. I was happy that you guys did that. So I don't think that's something you should take away. I wanted to comment one of the last meetings when there was discussion about the meeting times. I appreciate that you guys are here at 6 o'clock. for the meetings, as opposed to 4.30 or earlier or whatever. Because people that do still work still should have a voice. And it's hard to have that voice with a 4.30 meeting time. I get off early. I have to take off about a couple of hours early in order to make even the meeting time at 6 o'clock. But at least the fact that I can make it is very, I appreciate you guys being here at 6 o'clock. I appreciate you guys staying. So thank you very much.

Any other comments?

My name's Edwin Bloodworth, and I'm on South Shore Drive. And I just had a thought that maybe if all the projects, whether it's development or whether it's town, if we could put it on a social media platform and put the author or the lobby for the project and then a description of it and the cost of it, and then let people comment on what they feel, is it a positive, is it a negative, does it add, does it benefit the community? And if people on a particular project, it was a negative response, you guys could mark it off the list and be done with it. It would save you time and it would give the taxpayers a platform to let them know, you know, is it a priority for us? Are our priorities the same as the council? And I think that would simplify your job. And just a thought. love to you know everybody looks at social media the town site is sometime hard to navigate and pull information from and this everybody looks at social media you could probably Daniel Blevins you could probably put it on his website but have every project itemized and just keep adding to it the dollar amount just like the multi-use trail how much you know if the grant money how much is going to be taken care of by with grant money and how much are the taxpayers going to be obligated for so just a thought thank you thank you mr bloodworth

I'm not gonna speak tonight.

I'm Doug West on 918 Broadway Street and again I thank you guys for everything you do. I know you give your time and you give your money and you're not paid a whole lot and you put up with all of us and I appreciate it and the transparency you try to create. But I wanted to say, and I know whether you like it or not, last year's tax debacle, it put the eyeball on you. Everybody's looking at you. People are not trusting you because how could that happen? And whether you like it or not, that happened. And so, as she said, you were directed maybe to press questions and stuff. And the fact is, I kind of like these meetings going back and forth a little bit. I kind of like it. And whether your questions are on point or way out there, the fact is that they're good questions. They're making people think a different way. It's not the status quo that we've always had. The worst thing that I've heard is like, oh, I always trust what you do. You've done it well. And just keep doing it. That's not what your job is. Your job is to look at what we're doing and to question and make sure that everybody is doing something different. They're looking at the best way of doing things. And I think that maybe behind the scenes, a lot of times, maybe you're doing all this stuff and we're just not seeing it. But when we come to these council meetings and we see questions, it gives us more faith that these questions are being asked. So I'm just saying, in the future, if you can, and I'm not saying, I've heard all of you ask good questions, but the more we see that, the more trust we will have in what you guys are doing. So thank you for what you do.

Thank you. Any other comments?

Can I cheat and go up a second?

You had nine seconds left, so go ahead.

This will probably take a little longer than nine seconds, but a few seconds. And I also forgot to introduce myself earlier, Albert Almeida from 105 Loomis Court. That's Almeida for those of you that have difficulty pronouncing it. Two weeks ago, we all were here kept late as all of you were. But there's one individual that sat up here that instead of going straight back home to his lovely wife that must have been worried. Where's this guy late at night? Dedicated his time to go decorate the circle at the bottom of the bridge. He graciously donated his time, his service, his dedication to Surf City. This beautiful Surf City needs to be recognized. The first thing that I noticed when I was driving down to the beautiful memorial remembrance ceremony on that Friday morning was how nice that circle was decorated with the American flags. And I knew, wow. Councilman John Klosky did an amazing job. So on behalf of many surf city residents and visitors. Thank you Thank you for that service dedication and commitment That's it.

Thank you Thank you for my pen to my 250 Any other comments If there are none, we will move to Trudy. OK.

These meetings are a little long, and that's fine, because the amount of business needing to be discussed in our town has increased drastically over the last five to 10 years. It just affects more people. There's a lot more land being used differently, traffic issues, all of it. But there's so many great things, and I appreciate the positive comments along with the questions. We are grateful for the news that we got today about the grant that Kyle let us know about, updated everybody about today. I'm also thankful for the movement on the oyster lease issue. We've been in a lot of meetings about that. There's been meetings here in Surf City, North Topsail Beach, Topsail Beach. I've been at the Beach Inlet and Waterway Association meetings, spent a lot of time talking about issues there. I'm thankful for that. There's just been a lot of meetings and a lot of people speaking up. I'm thankful that there's some movement in the right direction now and that there's some state support and all that. So I hope you guys paid attention to that announcement tonight. That's been a heated discussion for quite a while. And we don't have to keep saying, yeah, we're working on that, yeah. So I'm thankful for that. I appreciate the comment about the meeting times. We did bring that up last meeting. We do question whether that's the right thing to do. I have no problem showing up at 6 o'clock and being here and having our meetings in the evening. I know it's not convenient for everybody. There's really no perfect answer, but this seems to be where we've gotten the most positive comments about it. I know we're going to end up saying, thank you for being here. Everybody who showed up, thank you tonight. Because it is really important and valuable to us to see a lot of seats filled in this room, versus sometimes when we're here and there's only two or three people. It's a good attendance tonight. We're thankful for that. I'm even more thankful for the people who approach the podium and share. And then I'm going to speak to Mr. Bloodworth's comment about social media. And there's people who mention emails. You come to the meetings, or you write us emails, or call us, or run into us on the street, and all those things happen. Or we notice some things on social media. And I've talked to a lot of our residents about the best way to communicate, and that's a big issue for me. That's my background, and how to be effective at that. I think social media has value, but I don't think it's the best platform. And there's a lot of information that's not verified and true, even from our best intentioned people. And there's a lot of people who come and talk to me on a regular basis that don't use social media at all and don't want to be a part of that. I have also gone to a conference lately at the state level where We learned that there's 50,000 Americans who don't have a reliable newsworthy source, and that's happened over time with newspapers and such. And so that is a challenge to get everybody truthful information. I do think this is a great place to do it. Come here and listen and ask questions and interact like this. So this is where we want to provide truth. We want to do that on our website. And it is a challenge to ask people to go to the website and look up information. But you can be assured that that information has been vetted and it's true. So we are challenged. Every town that I meet with and talk to, I talk to a lot of towns on a regular basis about how they communicate with their townspeople. And it's just a challenge in this current day and age to meet everybody's needs. Everybody has their desired way to receive information. There were people the other day who said that they would just like to receive more text messages. Well, not everybody wants to receive more text messages. There's people who want to receive emails. There's people who comment and say, I only read my email once a month. There's people who want to see them on social media. There's people who say, I don't get social media. It's a lot of work for us to find You have to use every avenue. And that's what we want to do. But I do ask you to be wary of what you've decided to use as your source. And please verify anything you can with a town employee or the council before you take it as truth and know that for a fact and are ready to go talk about it with other people in the town, too. And then back to some of our things that I loved hearing some of the, there were certainly people, plenty of people who were talking about ways that we could still chop the budget and cut it. We also have people coming up and saying, I hope our fireworks display is going to be really spectacular this year. So I think I speak on behalf of all of us. That is our conversations all day long with people in town. I will leave one person who's asked me to consider the dues and subscriptions. And I talk to the next person and say, well, if we could just do this over here and spend money over here, that would be fabulous. It would really benefit my kids, my neighborhood, my whatever. And so this is the game we play. And it's not a game. know that but this is the job we do of trying to decide and we talk a lot about what do we need to have happen in our town not a want and we had continuously been asked don't we can't get all our wants but we did continually asked people who have great ideas of what would be beautiful and wonderful and helpful in Surf City which may not be a great need it just might be something they'd really enjoy so we struggle with this I hope you can understand that um I really do appreciate the conversations tonight. Some of the suggestions we get are very useful. Some of the conversations we have across council are very useful. Things that we share with Melissa or Teresa or Kyle or whatever, our suggestions are useful. Some of them we find out are not really allowed. They might violate a policy or even a law. And that happens even with some of your suggestions, too. I mean, it happens with you. It happens with us, too. So we're always learning about where our boundaries are in certain things. And that's certainly been some of those boundaries we certainly have been exploring differently with the budget discussions because there's nothing wrong with getting creative and talking and finding a new way to do things that might meet our needs better. Times are always changing. And so I don't think we're stuck as just the same old, same old. I think we certainly have gotten more creative and done a lot more homework. And that's kind of what Doug referenced. Last year, we got questioned a lot more. So I think some really great things have come from that experience. But we do have some limitations. We're always going to have limitations. Our hands are tied in certain areas. as a municipality. So it just is, it's just, it is, it is the way it is. Um, and then I just wanted to say one more thing. I, like I said, again, I do really appreciate the public comment time. I appreciate Ms. Rainer, um, speaking up about her concerns for how council may have responded and treated one of our fellow council members. Um, I, I'm, that's embarrassing to me and disappointing to me and I don't want any of my, um, facial expressions or anything to, to seem exasperated or frustrated. We do have a really difficult job. We do have some things that we will miscommunicate at times and misunderstand each other at times. Um, and it's, and then we're up here trying to make sure we're on the same page and did I hear that correctly and things like that. So, um, but we, we are really working hard to work together as a, as a team. It does take us having some conversations outside of this room. one-on-one so that we can dig deeper and really have a really robust conversation about each issue because we're just kind of limited up here. So we're working harder at that and But yeah, I mean, I apologize for that. Thank you for bringing that up is all I'm asking. I love all the public comments. So my apologies if that came across something for me. I don't mean any ill will of any of our council members. We're here as a team. There is something valuable for every person up here that we all bring to the table that represents a different part of the communities or different parts of our community. And that's been evident, been showing up more and more and more from our different backgrounds and areas that we live in and where we lived before maybe or anything like that so I just wanted to thank you even for that comment and I apologize if that was something that was noticeable by a lot of people that's not acceptable to me so that's it so thank you for coming

Which she said. No, I appreciate that everybody came out tonight and that you're all still sitting in the seats because I don't know how comfortable those seats are. But it's important that you show up. It's important that you ask questions. We may not always give you the answer that you want to hear. Like she said, we have, I feel right now, a very diverse group of people sitting up here trying to help make decisions for the betterment of Surf City as a whole, not just one group of people or one demographic of people or one person individually. So we do really spend a lot of time trying to make the right decisions in our heart for what we think is best for Surf City as a whole. So I, again, thank you all for coming and being here and ready for summer to kick off. And hopefully you guys don't spend too much time on the roads. Thank you. Mr. Plow?

um thanks for coming can i make a motion to adjourn no i just wanted to make a couple comments um one the traffic light i'm enjoying it as much as the rest of you it's comic relief sometimes you watch the surf checks iga cam if you get bored or you can't sleep okay so the good news is the ncdot is paying for it We are, except for the staff that we have, committed to help monitor it. We're collecting a lot of information. Ultimately, it will be useful in trying to make some decisions on how to facilitate car flow through the roundabouts and up 50. So Mr. Brewer has lots of data, he has lots of great ideas. One of my neighbors said, you know what we could do with all this data? We could do some discrete event modeling. Okay, and that's where I'm going to stop talking. But when Mr. Brewer has all the data, he has agreed to share it. And we're going to share it with one of our experts in the community and maybe come up with some answers or insights based upon all the data. That's the good news. I wanted to ask Mr. Brewer a question, though, and I think it's one that might be of interest to you folks. How are we doing with the police chief recruitment effort? How will we engage the community? And what are your expectations from council to support that activity?

Well, you all entrust in your town manager to hold the hiring and firing authority within the town. So I'll start with that. We had an excellent interest in the position. About 70 applications came in. So I've gone through all 70 of those immediately off the bat. 30 were dismissed. 20 were put into a holding tank and 20 proceeded to first round interview process so I have interviewed 20 individuals and first and foremost I will say and I've communicated this to chief that my faith in the law enforcement profession continues to be extremely strong because I've been able to talk to some just excellent excellent candidates internal and external to the organization Next step will occur next week. We will have an assessment center that is going to be set up. We're working with the North Carolina League of Municipalities, and we have invited volunteers that serve as agency leads from surrounding police organizations, representatives from the League of Municipalities, representatives from the Council of Governments, to serve on that assessment panel. There's going to be three assessments that are going on simultaneously with interview panel sort of questions, and then there's going to be also scenario-based questions and going through process and procedures and figuring out what the best process for those things are. I'm not going to give away what those look like. So that'll give an objective review from external inputs that are familiar with what it takes to be an effective leader, an effective police chief, et cetera. So combined with those two processes, I will call that down. Hopefully there's concurrence on you know, who I feel like would be a good or the best candidate for the position and from that panel. And we will make decisions from there and then communicate that to the public. So I hope that answers your question.

It does. Thank you. I have a bunch more things, but you know what? I'm getting tired, too, and I haven't had a beer yet. So I'm going to go ahead and stop. And I think Mr. Kennedy, I think, is he next up? John. John's up.

Well, I had a few comments I had on a sheet of paper. I put them away since Trudy basically touched on most of them. And I was glad for that because it takes the spotlight off of me for the moment. But I'd like to thank you all for coming tonight and have a good weekend.

real quick uh again everybody said it thank you all for coming thank you for sticking it out uh things i heard tonight was grants grants grants that's a great plus i'm very excited about this lease oyster oyster lease bill possibility i know that's been mentioned also um i've had my eye on that now for i want to say going on three years if not longer um Mr. Bloodworth, I'm intrigued by your social media idea. I'm not sure how to pull that off, but I know where you're coming from with that. And that is intriguing. And Doug, I also like the debates and getting the questions, hearing some stuff. I mean, that is good. I enjoy that myself. One thought I want to put in you guys' minds specifically, because I think it's going to come back up again, is meeting times. And I'm good with the 6 o'clock meeting. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. But we had a daytime meeting for a workshop and a late afternoon meeting for a council. And we swung from a blend to one side. So we were able to bring in... a lot of you guys are able to come that but we we've kind of eliminated a group that were able to attend before. And I'm not saying this we're gonna do but I know it's coming for the board against and be thinking about in your mind, what it would look like for Tuesday evening, council meetings late, and maybe the workshop during the day to give both sides of the community a chance to at least 10 summit. I don't know that's how to go. But I'm just that's gonna come up again. So kind of have that in the back of your head. I hope everybody has a great summer. I think we had a really good Memorial Day weekend. And keep on being surf city.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um, so as we move into summer, You'll notice the posters on the wall over here. And James Horn and Ashley Riffle did an awesome job at putting together a presentation. Not attended very well, but all that information is online. You guys did an awesome job. So yesterday started the big H word, and everybody needs to be prepared. So it says be prepared, be safe, and protect what matters. So there's some pamphlets back there on the table as well. If you don't have your . Your re-entry passes, you need to think about that now and don't wait until the last minute. Again, I want to Before we see you again, we will have fireworks. So we want to make sure that you come out to our July 3rd fireworks at the park, which is a really nice event. And I feel that it's something that our whole community enjoys. And before I adjourn, I want to call these four children right here, my Owens twins. Come on, Ellen's. Come on, Alice's. Lainey, Olivia. Yeah. Yes. And Henry. Henry.

Come on up here, Henry. Don't miss your chance.

We sat here for two and a half hours. Yes, two and a half hours. And you didn't really hear these children in our meeting. But they are the future of Surf City. And I appreciate you being here and being a part of our community. And I want to encourage y'all to be safe this summer. If you're riding bikes, make sure you wear your helmets. If you're in a boat, wear your life jackets.

There you go. Chocolate's the way.

You can hit the gavel. Do I have a motion to adjourn?

I will make that motion to adjourn.

Do I have a second? Second. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Those opposed, same sign. We are adjourned.

Thank you. Thank you.