Local Planning Agency - Regular Meeting

Do we call this meeting to order? Um, roll call. Susan, chair Peterson here. Vice Chair Olette here. Board member Sealov here. Board member Graco here. Board member Paul Mary here. Board member Sharer here. And board member Vogel here. Okay. Um, the pledge of allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, to the republic for it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, liberty, justice for all. Okay. Before we approve the agenda, we have a little bit of a we need to do an oath of office and sus. No, the attorney is going to do that for us.

So, with board members Sil Silm and Sher, please uh stand up and raise your right hand. You have a copy of the oath in front of you. I only have those handy. You'll repeat after me. I state your name. I, Clay Sher, am qualified under the Constitution laws of Florida am qualified under the Constitution laws of Florida and the code of ordinances for the city of Steuart, Florida. and the code of ordinances for the city of Stewart to serve as a member of the local planning agency to serve as a member of the local planning agency. and that I will well and faithfully perform the duties of an advisory board member.

And that I will well and faithfully perform the duties of an advisory board member on which I am about to enter. So help me God. On which I'm about to enter. So help me God. All right. Thank you very much. You can be seated and just remember to be able to sign in front of the clerk before you leave tonight. Thanks. Um, we do have need a motion to approve the agenda, but before we do that, we're rotating the items a little bit. The staff update, um, item number four, we're being asked to see first and then, um, we'll do two and three after 4. Um, so does somebody have a motion? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. Second.

Second. All in favor? I understood him saying he had a motion to approve the minutes. Oh, agenda. Oh, sorry. So, we want to approve the agenda. Approve the agenda. Just moving forward before two. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Second. Second. Thank you. And then all in favor? I I Okay. Um and now we need a motion to approve the minutes. I approve. I motion to approve the minutes. Second. All in favor? I um then do we have any comments from the public on non-aggenda items? I don't have chair. Okay. Um, any comments by board members? No.

Okay. Um, and then are on to action items and our first one is going to be Mary. Yes. Item staff update.

Good afternoon. I'm Mary Kendall. I'm the city clerk. I've met you, but I haven't met all of you. Am I not on microphone? I'm sorry. I get after people about that. And I have Lee Bagot here with me. He's the city attorney. and we wanted to present to you um some information, general information on public records, the sunshine law, and what the responsibilities of a board member are. So, um before we begin, uh we kindly ask that you hold any questions until the end of the presentation. Many of the topics will likely be addressed as we move through the material and we will be happy to take any questions once the presentation is complete. So, let's get started. Okay. Um today we're going to cover what a public records request is and who it applies to. Um board member responsibilities, duty to preserve and not delete records. And um we're going to understand board member responsibilities after term expiration or b board service ends. So what is a public record? A public record is any record made in connection with the transaction of official city business regardless of physical form characteristic or means of transmission. This includes but is not limited to paper, letters, maps, books, tapes, photographs, videos, recordings, voicemails, text messages, emails and social media posts. Um it is the content of the record that matters. It is not where it is kept. So, in other words, if you have something on a personal device, it doesn't matter that you're receiving city business or a text from somebody about something that's going to come before the board and it's on your personal text. That's still a city record regardless of where it's held. So, let's see. Um, public records law applies to both elected and appointed board members such as yourselves. Any records received or created in connection with board duties, including

emails, texts, any written communications, are considered public record. The law is applicable to this board. Um, in the first block here, this basically means that you are legally responsible for the preservation and transfer of those records to the city. And this legal obligation to transfer public records extends to records that exist on personal devices, as we just mentioned, and in personal accounts. All records should be preserved and maintained even after they are transformed or I'm sorry transferred to the city. Um upon resignation or expiration of your term you are required to transfer all public records anything related to city business to the city within 10 days after leaving the office. And then at that point your records can be deleted. You can take them and delete them from your files or any personal phone but only at that time. So the first block there in green is for elected officials and CRA board members. So that doesn't apply to this board. So we'll skip over that one. Um all board me all boards are to receive training and that's what we're doing here today um of the public records law and sunshine law. You also would have received an orientation packet and that included links to different things. But anything you might need printed because some of the documents are a little larger. Um, just ask and we'll provide it for you. Um, let's see. Um, the the Florida Commission on Ethics Guide to Sunshine Amendment and Code Ethics for public officers and employees. That's a 37page document that was a link in your email, your orientation email. But again, if you want us to print that because there's a lot of good information in that and we're required by law to provide that to every board member. Um, board bylaws, public meetings, calendar, and helpful tools were all in your orientation

packet as well. Upon appointment, board members receive a city assigned email address for public record purposes. If you um are issued a city email, which I believe each one of you has, is that correct?

Yes. Um, all city or board communication must be conducted using that email. So, um, what they did on purpose, because originally when we started doing this and providing board members an email address, people forget to kind of check that email, it's not something on their mind. So, we ended up linking it to your personal email address. So, somebody may email you at your city email address, but it's automatically going to roll into your private email just so you have that record. No worries. Anything that comes in through your city email address or if you forward something to your city email address for safekeeping, that's something we can obtain through public public records search. We don't even have to contact you. So any emails that are on that city email address, we wouldn't even contact you if we had a public records request related to that. We would contact you if it involved text messages or any other communications. We usually do go a step further and ask the board member, even though we have all your email addresses, do you happen to have anything on your personal email account? Do you have any text messages? It depends on what the request is for. So, let's see. Um, we do recommend that if an email is sent to you on your personal device that you forward it to your city email. Um, and then also it's nice to have kind of a standard reply. That's an example within the box there that is notifying the the sender that if it is city business, please email me at this email address and it kind of keeps your personal email address out of it. And then make sure all city related communications are secure and available upon request. It is rare that we get public records requests for board member documentation and communications, but it does happen if there's a hot topic on the agenda. Um, there's certain things

people want to know your communications or how you feel about something. Those are all public record. So, you make sure you hold on to anything city related. Um, the the blocks there, the colored blocks are just suggestions on how to submit records to us. It gives examples um such as, you know, taking snapshots of your text messages and sending them to that email address or forwarding any personal emails to that email address. The last block at the bottom uh is basically kind of describing that all of that, all of your communications, it is your responsibility as a board member to hold on to that information and um provide it at the time that you leave the city. If you're ever not on the board any longer, we ask that you submit that, then you can delete it and that takes it out of your hands. But while you're a board member, even though you may submit certain information to us, text messages from this date to this date if it was requested and we have that record, hold on to it anyway because then if it is requested again, but in a slightly different manner, maybe includes a couple of different dates. We are not responsible to make sure that request is completed. You as the board member are, and we help you along the way. So, let's see. Are there records that are related to city business that are not considered a public record? Yes. Any notes and rough drafts? Um, there's kind of a little fine line there and I don't know if Lee wants to jump in, but notes, personal notes, we had just had this conversation in the office just recently, but personal notes that are used to jog your memory, um, are not public record. So if you use it for your own benefit and you don't share it with anyone that is not a public record. The minute you share it or you make it known you announce it from the dis because you had prepared notes then those are public record and they must be submitted to the

clerk. Okay. So and then rough drafts if you're just jotting down things as you know notes for you to some put in a document those are your personal notes but the rough draft itself or I'm sorry the draft itself once it is completed is considered public record. So these are just kind of oddities that are probably not going to come up but we just need to inform you.

Okay. If anyone makes a request to you, um, it's best just to kind of inform them that the public the city's city clerk's department is where a public records request should go. However, by law, anyone can make a public records request to any city employee, board member. So, you're still responsible to take the request. You can suggest that they go to the clerk, but if they say, "No, I want to turn my request into you." just jot it down and then contact us and we'll take care of it. So, they do have the right to to walk up to somebody who's a city employee and say, you know, I'm going to put in a request through you and not go to the clerk. So, um let's see. Once the request is received, we would always notify you um if we have something that comes in for any LPA board member information. So, that's our responsibility. We would kind of walk you through it, help you every step of the way. So, it's not that scary. Um, we just ask that you search your files, including all electronic devices and accounts, and gather any records related to the request. Uh, you send any information or records found to us at the clerk's department. And if you have no records, we just ask that you confirm that you have no records. There needs to be some sort of documentation of you stating that you don't have it. So, it doesn't leave it open-ended. But upon resigning or on the expiration of your term, you will check your files, devices, any accounts, and gather up any records and submit them to the city clerk. Um, all public records should be turned over to the city within 10 days of exiting office. Legal consequences can result from failure to turn over the records to the city. And Lee is going to talk about the consequences,

the bad news. Uh and then do we have the next slide up there? Yeah. So, um there's certain things that could happen not only to you but also to the city. So, the city could have a judgment entered against it for violating public records laws even if it was you that violated the law. Um there could be civil cases filed against the city and yourself and uh it could result not necessarily in damages but in attorney's fees assessed against the the city. Uh there there is potential uh of an arrest of a misdemeanor uh and also up to a $1,000 fine or both. It could also be what's called a noncriminal infraction in which you could be made to pay up to $500. Don't want to scare you. Just want to tell you that there is some serious consequences. So you want to if you have any questions, uh you can contact Mary or myself. She's the city clerk. I'm the city attorney. I'm I'm the the attorney for this board. So, if you have any questions regarding what your duties are or stuff that even comes up before you before it comes before you, if you have questions, you can reach out to talk to me and ask questions. Hopefully, you can hear me right now with the train, but uh but we're here for you. I I I I'd rather you guys I don't want you to feel like you're bothering us. I'd rather you guys call us or email us. Uh probably better to call so we can explain it better and and ask the question. I'd rather do it beforehand and find out after the fact. Okay, that's all I have on that.

Do you want to talk about financial disclosure a little bit or you want me to cover? Uh, you can go ahead and do that, right? It's fine.

Okay. Financial disclosure. Um, many of you are probably already aware of this, but um the Commission on Ethics uh at the state of Florida requires any board members, elected officials, um to complete a form one. Form one is an annual financial disclosure. Um it's just ensuring transparency. It's ensuring um you know that it's increased public confidence um deters any corruption or anything that might be going on. So um it's it's a pretty simple form. There's a lot of instructions. It's all online now. So you just do everything online. Um we do ask that you go in I'm sorry I didn't change the slide there. Form 1F is the form that you do um as you're leaving the board and that kind of like finalizes, closes out unless you switch to another city board. If you're still active in the system, you don't have to do the F. F is almost like for final. Think of that one F. Um it's closing out your your uh financial disclosure with the state. But um there is a fine involved in it if you do not complete it. Uh, it's required by law and um, let's see, what is it? It's due July 1st. I wish I had more of my details here, but yeah, July 1st of every year. Um, and we do ask that you go in and you file. A lot of you have just taken your oath. Some of you just took your oath last week or I'm sorry, last month. So, um, we ask that you go in and you do an initial. Your name is in the system, so it would come up and, um, we can help you with that as well. All right. Um, Florida Sunshine Law. It applies to advisory boards. Um, it covers meetings of two or more members discussing any board business. So, we ask that you don't do that. And you be careful of also the perception. You may be friends with someone else on the

board. And that's great if you're talking about your dog or the weather or your kids, but um if you just got to be careful because perception also from the public may be that they're talking city business or about how they're going to vote and you wouldn't want to um you wouldn't want to take the chance on that. So, um meetings must be open to the public with reasonable notice. Minutes or records must be maintained and it applies to all formats whether you're in person, telephone, electronic communication. Um, the sunshine law. Just think of Florida. It's it's a Florida law. So, in the sunshine means it's exposed. It's not happening behind closed doors. So, all city business should be inv. So, basically the takeaways from this um presentation is just that the board is subject to sunshine law and public records law. It is your responsibility to maintain all board business related records except for emails through your city email address. We will take care of that. You will be contacted by the city if a public records request is made for your records and do your best to limit uh city related texts or communication on personal devices. When separation from the board occurs, submit all public records to the city clerk. And that's pretty much it. Does anybody have any questions? No, we covered it all.

Oh, can I just Sorry, uh Mary, the um I'm just thinking just to take a couple minutes selfishly about me if the uh if I went off the CRB in December. I I didn't do the form 1F, but now I'm on this board. So, do I do another form one now? It'll be It's the same. You're still enrolled in the Commission on Ethics for the City of Stewart. So whether you were on a different board and now you're on this board, it's it's still the same. We switched you to the right board in the system. So you would continue to do form one. It's due every year in July. Okay.

There's an absolute deadline in September where you then would risk fines and things like that for not turning it in. But um I believe we sent the link to everyone, did we not sus for form one? It was on the orientation. Yeah, it's on the orientation. So it if you need it again, just let us know. But yes, you're still in the system. Anything else? All righty. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Chair Peterson, may I have a few minutes just to discuss a few things before you guys get started? Thank you. First thing is uh one or one of you have been asked about the ex officio board member Mark Serest who's identified on the agenda and he's an eighth board member and so I didn't have an answer for you at the meeting but I found the statute and it's Florida statute section 163174 and in the statute it says not notwithstanding any special action To the contrary, all local planning agencies or equivalent agencies that first review uh resoning and comprehensive planned amendments in each municipality and county shall include a representative of the school district appointed by the school board as a non- voting member of the local planning agency or equivalent agency to attend those meetings at which the agency considers comprehensive plan amendments and resonings that would, if approved, increased residential density on property that is the subject of the application. So the school board has a member that they notify us who that is and it's Mark Serest currently. I I've been here two and a half years and he has never come to any of the meetings. So um we do have quarterly meetings with the school board, the county and Indian town uh with the city commissioners and and we do that on a quarterly basis and we do address high uh development issues for all the all the all the municipalities of the county. Uh they all go through all their development and the school board is there. So the point I guess of this would be to notify the school board. Let's say we're putting in a thousand uh new unit development in city of Stewart. They probably need to know that, right, for school size. It'll impact the schools, but we don't have, you know, for the most part Stewart's

kind of built out. So, we don't have that. But if we did have something that come came up, it would probably also be addressed in that quarterly meeting that we have with the other uh local governments. So, I just wanted to point that out. Um someone had that question at the last meeting. Um, in addition, I wanted to talk a couple things about tonight on the agenda. So, the two action items are what's called quasi judicial. And uh, so in essence, you guys are uh, putting on your judicial caps and you're acting as a judge uh, a panel. And so, the majority of this panel will make a decision. You're going to have facts given to you by the applicant and city staff. you're going to you're you're going to probably also be given some uh laws or ordinances that apply to this and you guys are going to apply these facts in making your decision. So, that's why we're going to put people under oath uh uh uh that are going to be testifying before you and providing uh evidence to you guys. Uh if you have any questions at all, obviously on procedure or whatnot, I am here and I'm going to be helping assist with that. Uh but you do have two items. uh uh most of the time you guys are acting in u advisory capacity. So you're making a decision. An applicant is going to go before the city commission, but they're first going to come before you um and and they're going to bring forth their application for you to make a decision. And your decision is a recommendation to the city commission. So in the city, we have another board called the community redevelopment board, the CRB that Mr. Sharer just mentioned that he was recently on and then switched to this board. So that board acts similar to this board except it handles the the land development applications that are contained in the community redevelopment area which is a smaller area inside the city around the downtown area. Everything outside this the CRA you guys handle. So and and both of you guys give recommendations or advisory opinions to

the city commission on the same agenda item. So in this instance tonight you have two agenda items. They're they're both quasi judicial but the first one is a variance. This variance is unique uh is because you are the final decision maker in the variance. So I wanted to make that distinction. So for the action item number two, you're not making a recommendation. You guys are the final it's it will not go on to the city commission. The second uh or the third uh action item is also quasi judicial and in that you're making a recommendation to the city commission. So after you guys vote, it'll then be passed on probably at the next meeting or thereafter to to the city commission. So I wanted to explain that to you. One last thing, um, Chair Peterson's going to go through a card that I gave her to make sure she complies with the law. And so one of the questions she's going to ask if you guys have had any exparte communications. What that means is if you had communications with anybody outside of this meeting, we need to disclose um who you had the communication with and kind of a summary of what the communication was to the applicant. It's just to comply with due process. So, if you guys had had a conversation that was someone that was opposed to their their application, they would have a right to know what that is, so they could at least give their opinion or their side to it before you make your decision. Does that make sense? Um, and also it would include emails, text messages, not only verbal or phone calls. And it also includes makes no sense that it's an exparte communication, but it also includes if you guys did a a site um like you visited the site where the the applicant of the property where where it's located and you were looked at it, they the applicant gets the opportunity to ask you what did that does that make a impact on your decision? Why? Tell me about that. They just have an an option to address it. It

doesn't matter if there are you're allowed to have exparte communications. You're allowed to go see the scenes. You just have to tell them so that they have a right to ask you questions about it. So when you're saying site visit, are you talking like with a developer or just we drive by on our own? No. Even if you drove by on your own, I mean, if you drive by it every day anyway and you're not I'm saying if you get out of your car, probably more and like you're looking at it. Oh, I see what this, you know, purpose. Yeah. With purpose. I would I would make a distinction there. Okay, does that make sense? All right, so I just wanted to clarify that for you guys. Again, if you have any questions, I know some of you are brand new. Um, if you have any questions, let me know. Even in the meeting or outside the meeting. I have a question. When do we disclose those things?

She's going to ask you at the beginning. Um, she's going to go down her card and she's going to ask you whether you had exparte communications. And so I just wanted to explain that so you're like, "Yeah, mine kind of thing. Okay, I'm going to touch this one last time because it's making a lot of noise, but then I'll leave the Okay, so now we're going to go to action item number two, final order of variance approval, 858 Southeast 14th Street, petition number 81. And Lee, are you going to read that or do you want me to read it? I'm right here at the microphone, so let me do it. I'm sorry.

I'm right here at the microphone so I can do it for you. Normally I'm sitting in the audience so it's more difficult. Uh variance petition from section 2.04.01 of the city of Stewart land development code to allow the reconstruction of the porch with a roof within its original footprint. Okay. Do the commissioners have oh not commissioners. Do the board members have any exparte communications to disclose? No. Oh, I drove by the site and I also um spoke with Commissioner Clark about this. Okay. And I drove by the site as well to see if I could figure out what was happening.

Okay. Um are you going to place any potential witnesses under oath? Yes. Would city staff and any of the applicant under this application please stand and raise your right hand? Well, the testimony that you're about to provide will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help you guide. Yes. Okay. You may be seated. Okay. Uh, does the development department have a summary? Uh, yes, we do, chair.

Good evening, members of the board. For the record, my name is Michelle Arbowl, planner 2 in the development department. Tonight I will be presenting agenda item number two for a variance request from the owner of the property who is seeking a variance from the land development code section 2.04.01 of the city's land development code to allow for a roof over the entryway. The property is located at 858 Southeast 14th Street. Pursuant to the land development code public notice requirements on February 20th, 2026, the applicant mail notice notices to all adjacent property owners within the 300 ft of the subject property to provide details of the requested development and the date and time of today's public meeting. Additionally, one sign, as you can see in the image on the screen, was posted on the property with the same information. The subject property outline in red is located uh mentioned before, 858 Southeast 14th Street. The structure is a single family residence constructed in the 1930s, and this information we gathered from the uh property appraisers website. The subject parcel is zone single family general uh R1 with the adjacent properties around it with the same designation. The current uh future land use designation is low density resident uh residential and the adjacent uh properties around it is the same. Uh the property owner is requesting a variance from section 2.04.01 table 5 of the city's land development

code to allow a reconstruction of a roofed structure over the entryway and they would like to do that within its original footprint. Staff are unable to locate it the original plans depicting the entryway roof. However, to provide a reasonable reference, right across the street, uh there is a a comparable example of how that entryway, the roof over it would look appear. So, according to our table in uh section 2.04.01 1 in the residential general uh zoning district. The setback the front setback is 25 ft which is circle in blue on that table. Uh the the per uh petitioner is requesting a reduced setback of 17 ft uh representing like an 8ft deviation from the standard requirement. The applicant submitted with their application a picture of what the house looked like uh within the record before the roof structure was removed. The note on that stated that the top portion had termite damage. It was dangerous to keep. So they removed it. They had to remove it. In regards to the standard of review, standards of review which is outlined in our section 8.05.02 O2 in our land development code. The local planning agency may grant variances to the city of Stewart's land development code when strict enforcement would create unnecessarily hardship to due to special circumstances. Any variance must still uphold the intent of the code, protect public safety and welfare, and ensure fairness. Such variances can only be approved if

the LPA makes specific findings that justify the hardship. The limitations on granting a variance will not authorize any use of the property that is not allowed as a permitted use or a use allowed by conditional use in the district in which the property is located. In this case, it's R1 general residential. The applicant explained in their request that adding a roof over the front door is necessary to protect the entryway as the front entry uh currently lacks any uh weather protection. The variance, if granted, will not allow a density or intensity use of use that exceeds the maximum density or intensity that is permitted in the district in which the property is located. By granting the requested variance, it will not allow density or intensity of use that is permitted in the district. The variance of granted will not result in a verifiable reduction of the property values of any adjacent or nearby properties. Uh granting the requested variance will not cause a potential reduction of the property values of any adjacent properties. The variance of granted will not cause a detrimental effect in the supply of light and air to adjacent properties. The effect in the supply of light and air on adjacent properties is not detrimental and does not apply to the requested variance. The variance if granted will not cause a detrimental effect concerning drainage of the subject property as well as adjacent properties. And by granting the requested variance, the applicant should be required to demonstrate all storm water management requirements by the land development code in section 6.03.0 and this would be done by their permitting process. The variance if granted will not cause

an increase of traffic or on adjacent or nearby roads to levels that are not unusual for the types of uses in the neighborhood. Granting Granting the requested variance will not impact or increase any traffic or on adjacent or nearby roads to levels that are not unusual for types of uses in the neighborhood. The variance if granted will not cause any threat to public safety in any manner whatsoever. Granting the requested variance will not cause any threat to public safety in any manner whatsoever. The variance if granted will not cause any threat to the health and general welfare of the inhabitants of the city. Granting the requested variance does not cause any threat to the health and general welfare of the inhabitants of the city. Staff staff supports and recommends approval of the petitioner's request for variance to reconstruct the front entry within its original footprint. This ends staff report. staff and the applicant's representatives are here to answer any questions the board may have. The owner of the property, they had full intention of uh um attending tonight's hearing, but due to family issues, I don't want to sort of put it out there. They could not. Anybody have any questions?

Based on the staff report and it's on the original footprint, I'm comfortable supporting the variance. Can I ask um Michelle, so I realize that you may not have um have have thought have analyzed this, but off the top of your head, how how often do we grant exceptions to the front setback in the city?

Uh we do receive requests to um for a reduction the board with the board approval. Um it also depends I mean per our per the variance approval it depends on uh the extent of the request if uh the feel of like the neighborhood feel and it it is part it it was part of the original structure you know obviously it had damages to it and they had to take it down because it was dangerous in this instant uh it was already there um that 25 foot setback when it was originally built. I doubt that the land development code was in place then. So that would be the reason why they didn't meet it now.

And maybe just a couple more quick questions. So the if I understood right, there were no records of the original uh setback or whatever. How do I guess I was a little bit confused on the history? How do we know what it was before it was to torn down? Well, with the permitting process, we didn't had one in place when these houses in the 1930s were built. Yeah. Yeah. I guess what I'm asking is maybe I think these current owners tore the roof off. You can see it and they have photos. Correct. They had the roof. It got termites. They tore it down. It was a bit confusing. Look. And um

this is uh this is a a image on the screen of what it originally on the house that the applicant had a picture of. Um the address actually says I mean you can't see it there but it says 858 um across the street there. Uh I had an image here where um oh right here it was one before that. Uh

yes, there was there's an uh there's a house across the street that had the original uh roof entry on top of it. Um it's the same house that was built. You know, the developers or whoever were developing the neighborshood back then, they built similar houses within the street or neighborhood. I guess my only question is we they sent letters to the neighbors and nobody objected. Correct. Do we have any record of any objections? No. Correct. No. No. No objections. Uh any other evidence or anything? Any other objections? That's it for staff.

I can just make a statement that might make it easy. The way the residential code's written, if they actually build a bigger porch and it was 50% or more the width front facade, they could have a reduced setback to 15 feet. So to me, it's a no-brainer. like they if they build a bigger porch they would allow to do it. It's just the fact that it's small and I understand it's way more expensive they build a big one. So um this was expensive too to have to go through this process. So it's unfortunate they had to go through this process but a porch is allowed if it's 50% or more and then to a 15 foot setback. Yeah. I feel like this is a good use of like an LPA board, right? Like that we're trying to make sure that the code doesn't create hardship for people who are totally in line with the character of the

the city. So Especially since they're not they're not adding it was originally there. Yeah. They're replacing. It's more like you're restoring it back to what it was. I I lived in a house on 14th Street for over 25 years that was older than this house and did extensive remodel work and the challenges were that prior to 1928, this was Dade County

and then and then it was Palm Beach County up until the mid30s. So to find the original to find the original records of of what was there, you have to do the diligence in in another county. And that's really really difficult. And then trying to get some of these older houses to comply with the newer codes when they want to do things is really difficult. But I I'm in favor of um I'm glad to see people taking an interest in some of those properties there. And some of those houses are really really uh nicely uh a a nice um reflection of of how the town was and and how it was laid out. And uh I I think it's a good thing to anytime there's an opportunity to put it back how it was and somebody's taken an interest.

I'm just curious like if if we did deny this variance, what's the next process for these folks? We won't be uh approving any building permits. So, it's not like they could appeal or like There is an appeal process. Okay. Yeah. Do we have any members of the public that wanted to make I have none. Okay. Um and no other closing comments because it says the party shall be provided with equal time to present the board with closing remarks. Chair Peterson, we need to allow the applicant speak if I thought the applicant was here. I thought the representatives were here.

They are. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. I'm sorry. I thought she said that they weren't here. So, I The property owners couldn't make it, but their representatives are here. Yes, then. Correct. Please. Are we okay? We have nothing to say. Okay. Good answer. Yes. You're you're free to ask questions. So, uh, just as a point of information, you've already redone the the roof on this house. Yeah. Can you step to the podium, please, and state your names for the record?

James Meredith Santao. So, and and I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but I just as as a point of information going forward to do something like this, you've done the diligence with a contractor on how to because the the struggle that happens with those older properties is is even okay, go ahead and do this. Well, now you've got to meet code on a on a roof that's not trust like uh a newer house. And so, you're aware of that. You've done all that diligence to Okay. U Michael Roberts, he's the owner of the property. He's actually a contractor. We just bought the company from him. So also, uh very involved in this. So, okay,

he's got two builders waiting to go. To her point, I don't want you to Okay, great. This is approved and now you have a whole other hurdle. Okay, we've done our due diligence. Good for you. We even have the plans already. Yeah. Okay. Anybody else have any questions for the Okay. Um Okay. So, does anybody have a motion? Motion to approve the variance? A second. And do we do all Do they need a roll call? Roll call. Yes. Roll call. Yeah. Let's see if there's any public comment.

Oh, public comment. I have none. Okay. Chair, could you just verify who second it because they both spoke at the same time. Can I have it? Mr. Graco, second. Okay. Just wanted to make sure. Board member Seamoff here. Yes or no? Yes. Thank you. Vice Chair Olette, yes. Chair Peterson, yes. Board member Sharer, yes. Board member Graasso, yes. Board member Paul Mary, yes. And board member Vogle, yes. Motion passes. Thank you guys. Awesome. Thank you. You'll be so happy. Yes.

Okay. All right. So, now we're on to action item three, Walmart exterior rebrand major commercial planned unit development amendment, quasi judicial. Lee, can you read that?

Yes. Ordinance number 2551-2026, an ordinance of the city commission of the city of Steuart, Florida, approving a major amendment to the Walmart commercial plan unit development, also known as CPU, providing for an amendment to the adopted resolution number 28-201 to authorize modifications to the approved unified signage plan, install a new canopy, and paint the exterior of the building providing for conditions of approval. providing for conflict, providing for severability, providing for an effective date, and for other purposes. Do the board members have any exparte communications to disclose?

I have none. I also drove by and I also spoke to Commissioner Clark about this item. Okay. Um and I guess now the development department has a brief summary. Yes. Hello again. Uh Members uh chair and members of the board. Wait a minute. I think I need to swear that way. Oh, swearing in. I need to swear in. Oh, I'm sorry. Well, uh, anybody testifying on behalf of the applicant, please raise your right hand and stand. Do you affirm that the truth Do you affirm that the evidence that you're about to provide will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So, help you guide. Okay. You may be seated.

All right. For the record, my name is Michelle Arbzau, planner 2 in the development department. I am presenting agenda item number three. uh a request from Walmart Stores East LP seeking to amend the CPU ordinance number 1915-03 and the previously approved resolution number 28-2011 development condition number four to allow modifications to the approved unified signage plan on February 2026 notification letters were mailed out to property owner owners located within 300 ft of the proposed uh site. Two public notification signs detailing the local planning agency public hearing was posted on the premise. The subject property outlined in red total approximately 33.7 acres. The site is located at 401 Southeast Federal Highway and is situated on the northeast corner of Southeast Federal Highway and Southeast Marketplace. Uh, one signage was posted off of Southeast Federal Highway. The other was off of Southeast Marketplace. The subject parcel is zoned commercial plan unit development. Most of the surrounding properties have the same zoning designation except for the residential PUD to the north and the industrial PUD to the southeast. The current future land use designation is commercial and almost again all the surrounding properties are designated with the same commercial uh future land use except for the multif family residential to the north and the industrial designation to the southeast.

The applicant is seeking approval from the LPA and the uh Steuart city commission to amend the commercial plan unit development for the removal of uh 607.58 square ft of existing wall-mounted sign to uh 18 total. They're installing 608.90 square ft of new wall-mounted signage, 28 individual signs. And the amount of the new signage is due to their online pickup and delivery expansion approved in 2025. Phase changes to the four existing uh monument sign, installation of new pickup banner sign on an existing light pole in the parking lot and construction of a new canopy on the previously approved expansion and the repainting of the exterior building. The proposed amendment reflected on on the table shows the existing 607.58 square ft of wall-mounted sign totaling 18 to be removed and proposal of the 608.90 ft of wall-mounted signs which totals 28 to be installed. Upon approval, the applicant will be required to comply with all applicable conditions and require requirements outlined in the PUD agreement and the Florida building code. The total number on the existing signage schedule uh total 587.58 uh not what is shown as the 607.58. Uh this this was brought to the applicant's attention. Um uh the applicant is here. They will be able to answer any questions regarding those numbers.

The signs are two auto care signs, eight numerals, uh pickup, four oil change signs, outdoor addresses, four tire sign, wine and spirits, two wall mart signs to include the two sparks, uh one on the side and the other on the front of the building. And then there's grocery, home, and fashion, which equals 28 signs total. The applicant is requesting phase changes to the four existing monument sign on site for their rebranding of the store. They are not changing the size uh to any of the monument signs that are on site. However, they are proposing a new 2x5 pickup banner to be installed on an existing light pole within the parking lot. the background of the sign uh on the screen. It's the uh Walmart blue, well blue uh true blue I believe it's called on the site plan with the white lettering pickup. The applicant is requesting approval for the installation of a 7x 20 ft canopy at the entrance of the store's online pickup and delivery operation uh which was previously approved. Uh, it's 140 square feet of canopy if you need that information. Administrative variance AV-25-4, which was an approval for an approximately 5,000t building to expand the store online pickup and delivery operation. This was granted in September 2025. The applicant is requesting to repaint the store utilizing the colors on the legend. Uh the colors you see is uh the main color there is called dark gray, true blue and safety yellow according to the color legend. Uh per our land development code section

6.05.07 C of the city uh exterior colors for a commercial building shall be restricted to muted pastel or earth tone shades. This section goes on to state that the use of black or fluorescent colors are prohibited as a predominant exterior building color. The applicant is requesting to repaint the store utilizing the colors on the legend. The colors you Oh, I just wanted I guess this is just to show kind of like the facade of what that building would look like with the new paint colors. I can zoom in if you'd like. the existing paint palette um are reflected in the image on screen is what we what we see if we drive by now. Overall staff supports updates and phase changes to the already approved signage and structure and all of it are required to follow the Florida building code, but they do not support staff do not support the increasing um of the size of previously approved signage. Adding new signs that are not permitted by code and then repainting the building in a color that violates the city LDC color requirements. Uh this ends staff presentation. The applicant is current is uh in attendance to answer any questions the board may have.

I have a question. So, previously the store had 18 signs and now you guys are going to do 28. Sounds like a lie, right? So, I'm Britney Lewis. I work with HFA. We're the architecture firm. Want to introduce yourself? My name is Christine Brooks. I am the applicant for this and um yes, it does sound like a massive increase. It is one new sign. Is that better? It's one new sign on the front. It's the auto center or auto care with the arrow. If I'm being completely honest, you probably won't see the sign because it sits below where the Could you speak closer to the microphone?

Yeah, you probably won't see the sign if I'm being completely honest. It's auto care with the arrow. It's on the front over by the garden center side of the store, which is not in that photo. Um, it's lower than the outdoor sign and we drove past this the store today and in the parking lot. The garden center canopy is probably going to block most of the view of that sign. Can you um Michelle, can you um zoom in and show us where that would be? Are the signs on there or no? I would actually be curious if you could maybe tell us exactly where the 10 new signs would go.

So that is the one new on the front on the auto center itself above each of the bay doors. Right now it says tire tire and loop loop loop four times on each side because that's the sides. It's going to say tire still. It's going to say oil care or oil change but there's actually a circle with an individual number 1 through eight. So instead of saying go to the oil bay and they go well which one you say go to bay two and it just helps direct traffic so there's less congestion and confusion. Okay. So some of the signs are not necessarily Walmart signs. They're signs design the bays.

They're they're directional. So the one new one on the front is the auto care with the arrow so they know which side of the store to drive to for the auto center assuming they don't come in on the federal highway side where it is. And then the other signs are specifically above the bay doors to indicate the number of the bay. And how many of those are there? Nine. There are eight. Okay. So that's nine new signs. Eight on the auto center and one on the front. Right. That's nine. And you're asking for 10 more. Am I misounting? So it's

there is a beer, wine, and spirits sign on the liquor box edition over to the very far right side of the store. For some reason, it was not in our asbuilt plans and it wasn't part of the last variance. So, we're requesting to change it to a smaller sign. It's just going to say wine and spirits. It was 29.29 ft and now it's 27

39 ft. I have a question. So, it looks like you're trying to increase the signage limit from 6 107.58 ft to 608.90 square ft. My concern is that exceeding the previously approved signage will create a precedent. Can you not shrink the signs so that they fit within the existing signage limit of 607.58 square feet? We actually have more signage than that on the store currently because of that beer, wine, and spirit sign that for some reason was never accounted for.

We have an extra 2929 square ft currently on the store than what we're showing in our schedule, but we didn't want to show that

unless it has a different address. It's got a different address than the main part of the store. I believe it has a totally separate entrance, but it is part of the front facade. I just think like the code is exists to keep, you know, the local control over design and and aesthetic and the feel of the community. And I just wonder if you have something to offer, like why is it that you can't operate within the color scheme, within the code of size of you know, if there was something where you said, "Look, if we're going to do this, we got to do it this size and it doesn't fit into your rules." I get it. But just branding or prototypical brand that Walmart wants their entire fleet to be recognizable and consistent. So that is the goal.

Yeah. Um had we included that beer, wine, and spirit sign that does exist, but but it wasn't in the variance, so we weren't going to include it, we would have been under square footage over a number of signs, but they are directional signs in my head.

So this might be a question for staff. So what so it was a variance last time to get this 600 and whatever square feet and now we're asking for another variance to go a little bit above that. What would have been allowed without a variance? Like what is what is standard for a building of this size? So the last uh amendment to the PUD granted the of 67.58 square ft that original amount. So um

is it because this is a PUD there is no signed standard the PU correct. So the PUD it's it's it's contract zoning. it's not following the straight zoning requirements. And so what was granted was the 607.58. Uh with their rebrand, it's bringing that up to 608.90, which changes that PUD that was approved by the commission. So um it it's got to go. So if it was a straight commercial zoning, I guess, what would the signage requirements be? Just so that we'd have a a base. Yes, sure. I can bring that up in our I'm sorry. is that

while while you're looking up that I'll just address some of the newer members. So the last agenda item you saw R1 that's our straight zoning and straight zoning has everything is the same in that zoning but when you see a PUD and we have CPU which is this commercial we have RPUD is residential um we have IPUD which is industrial you'll see other PUDs it's like a custom zoning designation for that property so they they they select to do a custom and being a custom they don't necessarily have to follow the straight zone owning they can come up with their own but there's also some requirements I think in a PUD they're supposed to have 25% of the land is supposed to be uplands uh in open space basically so there's certain requirements that they have to meet but then they can also deviate from what the standard code would allow you find it yet

okay

all right according to our straight zoning if you're in the business B1 B2 B4 if you're in industrial and or the urban district a wall sign won't be it will be only not more two per occupant. I mean, so Walmart would have two wall sign uh 1.5 square feet for the first 25 linear feet of occupancy. So, they're looking at the face of the building and uh and then it it won't go over 100 square feet basically. Uh it's um I'll read the for per word um in our or um in our code 1.5 square feet for the first 25 linear feet occupancy then one square feet per linear foot over 25 linear feet occupancy not to exceed 100 square feet per occupancy. So if this was not in a CPU, which we obviously it is, but if it was straight commercial zoning, they would this is six times what they would have been allowed. They were allowed with the variance at the last CPU.

Correct. Only two wall signs would be approved. Correct. Unless you count each of Walmart's sections and occupancy. Uh yeah, that's if they're specific. No, it wouldn't be just Walmart. It would be a specific different tenant. then they would be required a separate I think it's I think it's kind of important to understand so just to clarify out of the 10 extra signs not all of them are store branding how many of them are store branding and how many of them are just directional it depends do you consider the auto care with an arrow pointing to the left a store I would say that would probably be directional

because that's the one on the front that's new because the the wine and spirits was beer wine and spirits before it just wasn't one extra Walmart sign. The rest of them are pretty much directional telling you what bays wire. Correct. And the one on the front that's added you probably won't see because the garden center canopy is in the way. The the shade cloth we could Okay. I guess that begs the question, if nobody's going to see it, why are we getting a variance to add it in case they can see it? From the very back of the parking lot, you can from the very like the last row, we could see where it was going to go. But if you're on the the road closest to the store, you're not going to see it. Chances are most people come in off federal highway and the auto center is on that side of the store.

Am I correct in assuming that the number of signs don't matter? We're looking at the square footage variance. Right. Uh I'm sorry, what was the question? So, so basically we're looking at they're requesting a variance of a little over basically from 67.58 to 608.90 square ft. Am I correct in assuming that that's what they're asking for? It doesn't matter how many signs they have. It's just the square footage we're talking about. Is that is that correct? It is both. It is the amount of sign and the square footage. Yeah.

I'm sorry. It's the what sign and the square footage. If if you approve the CPU amendment, that becomes the new rule for the zone. Correct. Thank you. Did any of the individual like branding signs increase in size? Actually, our Walmarts and Sparks are slightly smaller. The Walmart on the left when you pull in from Federal Highway is 67.34 square foot smaller. It was um it was a 4 foot 4 foot six sign and now it's 4 foot. The Walmart and Spark on the front of the building is now 32.53 square ft smaller,

but that's only because of the the font changed. The size height of the sign didn't change. Uh that's correct. The Walmart the two large Walmart signs are smaller than what was approved. That's just because they slightly changed the font. Nobody would know unless you actually saw it on the planet. And tell me a little bit about the poll sign. Like why is this not an approved sign in the city? Is this is is it something we just haven't allowed before or correct? It's not part of our land development code. Um it's it's not aware staff's not authorized to grant that permission or authorized to grant that approval. Is there another way to do that sign so that it does fit our codes?

That one's more of a it's it's kind of like a banner. It's like a vinyl material that's held between two poles and it's about 16 feet off the ground. It's strictly to kind of direct which aisle has the actual parking spaces for the pickup orders. If it's vinyl, is there a plan to replace it? If it gets damaged, but on a reg because it's going to get faded and damaged in Florida in the sun. They should it it should be a nicer material that will withstand because we do Florida projects in California and all the we do all the states but um it it should be replaced if damaged by the store manager.

Going back in the in the staff's presentation h approximately how much of this PUD is still unbuilt? It's completed. It's completed. Correct. Okay. So it doesn't include all that land on the side or that's preserve. Those are probably their open space open space requirement and okay so essentially that's the benefit with the PUB they have to have a larger amount of open space preserve and that's also if you

I know a little bit about this because I' since I've been here I've had to look at it but we I think they required years ago when they required it you remember there's like a buffer on US1 you can't see the I doubt Walmart wanted that but we we required it for the PUD that they put landscape buffer up right on the east side there's a lot of of vacant land but but it I imagine that's preserve part part of it so so essentially what if if any changes are made to this PUD it's only going to affect Walmart that's the basis of my question nothing in the future is going to change because of this if we change it from this it would be another beauty

it would have to come before the boards for approval if they are in changing but I mean Walmart is is the only thing that's ever going to be there at this point. Correct. According to the PUD, this is a complete We're not going to build something else that that But but I think sets a precedent for other PUB. I don't disagree. I'm just I'm just wondering I just wanted to make sure to your point that there's nothing else that can be built there that's going to be subject to this change if it was made. But elsewhere perhaps it could be.

Yeah. Yeah, if if Walmart left there and something else came in there, they would have to do an amendment as well. Walmart used to be off Indian Street in the old location and now it's a gym. So, uh, they had to do a change of use and probably have to change the PUD there as well. And I think I think Walmart was built. I think that was there was nothing there where it currently is located. Can I ask a question about the colors? So, currently it looks like it's light gray with white kind of more Florida looking awnings or um Bahama shutters or whatever off the top. Um what will that is it just going to be straight dark with

the material is not changing just the paint color. So everywhere that you see the light gray would be a darker gray and those white Bahama shutters are going to be gray as well and the trim is going to be gray. Mhm. So, it's just going to be no no no trim distinction really, just straight dark gray with the royal blue or whatever that indicated on the plans. Yeah. Why Why is the staff uh saying that it appears inconsistent with the land development code requirement for the muted pastel earth tone colors? Now, we are not No, it's not it's not um with our code. It's going against it because it's not that not muted pastel color.

So So basically they're asking for something that's inconsistent with the code. Correct. Correct. Correct. Okay. Yes. All right. Yeah. I just don't um you know I think you could come back forever and ever and make Walmart more lit up with more signs and have it be more efficient of getting people in out in out and out. And I don't think that's what we're trying to do. Like that's not why I feel called to be on this board. Like I I don't see any reason to make this adjustment. I just think, you know, Walmart's a big corporation. They can work within the confines of of what the city wants for their community. Oh, can I ask a question about the PUD? If if we were to reduce some of the signage square footage to keep Can you go a little lean?

If we were to reduce some of the square footage, I mean, based on the PUD we have, we can't change the signs at all without a new PUD amendment. Correct. If we alter any of the signs, we need to amend it. Correct. Okay. Yeah. Because you're adding number and you're increasing. Well, even if I was to reduce to stay under the existing PD, if I change the sign at all, I still have to amend the PED. Correct. So, if even if they stayed 18 signs instead of the 28 and they stayed within the square footage, but just updated the signs, uh, then there won't be any, it's like a face change, but it still comes before it's a PUD. staff doesn't have the authority to grant that request, but but it's more likely to be approved

or recommended for approval because it's following our code within the guidelines. The staff would be more likely to recommend approval correct based on our code. I definitely don't think changing the colors, you know, I think we should allow the colors. I I personally agree with the staff's recommendations. Yeah. that that gray that's that dark gray that is on some of the parts of the store now, right? It's not the whole store, but I think like some of the polls it's that dark dark gray. I know Walmart does have a lighter gray. I don't think it's quite that light, but it is a lighter gray that is prototypical that we can default to.

Um I don't know if we could get that approved as a requirement of this beauty amendment if you were to agree with everything with a lighter gray. Do you have a sample of that lighter gray on me? No, I do not. I do think that dark dark gray is going to look to three shades lighter than building that super dark gray look like a Navy ship. I also just think about the heat, right? You know, you've got a dark building on dark black top on like what is this doing to our, you know, we talk about like our ecosystem of our cities with trees and cooling and all that kind of stuff. And just to do these really dark colors and a on top a black top and top of US. Part of it too was for their their branding identification so that the white signs just popped more. But I understand your concern in Florida.

Yeah, I think it blends the architecture as well because that is a somewhat the thing that always gets me is when petitioners come and they have a building that looks like it could be in Spokane, Washington, Massachusetts or Florida. This actually has the coastal Bahamas shutters and has some architecture to it that fits Steuart. And if we paint it all black, all that architecture disappears. And I don't know. I don't think that's It looks black on the plans. I swear it is not that dark. It's just cuz the line the line work is on it. Dark gray. Yeah. Okay. I think if you zoom in, you can see some of the Isn't there some of the gray on the front of the building now? I think the poles or something are that dark gray.

Uh I don't think so. I think the medium gray is on this building in some parts. Yeah, I don't see the dark gray. It's It's a shade dark. Like I see a light gray and a medium gray. The dark gray is a shade darker. Yeah, you're right. There's no that whole store all dark gray is going to look extremely different than everything else. If is is it possible to have us the board if you were to approve anything else with the caveat that we do the lightest gray that Walmart has assuming that staff sees it and shows it to the board. But I don't know how we can make a recommendation for a color we can't see.

It just says it that that should be muted pastel or earth tone colors which that is not. I mean that's the bottom line. No, it's going to go against what? And it kills me because I know the gray is a muted gray. I just don't have it on hand. Does any gray Is it a muted pastel though? It is. It's a It can't be a pastel. It looks very similar to the mi middle color that's on the Okay. on the pole. That's You see the Walmart?

I mean, the intent of the code is to show off the architecture. um muted, lighter pastel colors. You know, it's it's a Florida theme, right? It's Stuart's theme. Um so, again, I I believe you're right. Uh we would need to see it. Yeah. And I think also having the trim different than the rest of the building would be important, too, for the architecture and for the overall look of the building. To paint it all one color, um it's just going to look like a big dark box. Um, do you have any other comments? Anybody have any other questions?

Well, I I guess the staff recommended the uh the canopy, but no to the pickup banner. Oh, yeah. So, we didn't So, the canopy is going to be over by where the they come out to bring groceries to. So, is it for staff like a Yeah, it's staff entrance and exit only. Okay. The staff seems to be okay with that. But the pickup, you're speaking to the microphone so much. Speak into the microphone. Oh, I I was just commenting that the staff seems to be okay with the canopy but not the pickup. That's anything further.

I have one question. Um, would you guys be willing if you are okay with what is on the building for the proposed signage to allow the signage and we can come back for the paint at a later time? Um, construction start for this entire project is March 12th, I believe. Um, minus obviously the signage and the paint, but they're starting the interior. Um, and if we could get at least the signage and come back for the paint later. If you're willing to wait a minute, I will pull up the other color on the computer and show you the other color.

But how does that I guess we're making a recommendation so we could recommend that they change the other color. It's okay that it's not on their what they're submitting. We can most certainly add conditions before they go to the next level, which is the commission. Look it up. Is that okay for her to look it up? And I'm not so sure. We're all I'm not like willing to approve the signs either at this time.

So, do we handle each of these items because there are one, two, three, four, five, six items before us? Do we do them one at a time and make recommendations? Is it one overall recommendation? How do you want us to handle it as a board? It's up to the board at this point. Say one. You can do it one at a time, you know, each individual or Okay. Can you I would suggest discussing that amongst yourselves and how you want to proceed with it.

So, could you do we could make a motion like for example, I'm not making a motion. Can I make a sample motion that um your motion would be recommending the city commission ABC? Okay. you know, um recommend no uh amendment that that changes the color scheme like each individual item will be a motion. Okay. Um Okay. Well, let me make sure. So, do we have any are we waiting still for the petitioner? Do we want to go to public comments? I don't believe we have any public comments, but I don't know if I still need to go through my little yellow sheet. I have

one quick question. Okay. Can you please refresh me? How old is the existing CPU? It the original 2008 2003 2003. Okay.

Um this board is is limited to what the evidence was before you. the applicants. Obviously, just to let you know, you have two more hearings before the city commission. So, you're not stuck with what you're saying today. You can amend and change things as we go through the process. The the second would be approved. So, I'm trying to pull the color up so we can see if that would be acceptable. Michelle, can you confirm is there any shade of gray that technically is approved under the current a lighter a lighter gray does count. Okay. Um, I do recall the coffee rush, um,

little coffee place that came before you guys a while ago and and I think the eventual and it's right around the corner from here really and I think the commission asked for a lighter color on that. It was a dark gray and they thought it didn't fit. So, if you guys remember that coming before you. Okay. I'm guess I'm wondering where are we proceeding or are we waiting on a color? Okay. Do we want to um Okay. So, we don't have any members making no members of the public. Um any board members have any other comments?

I I feel like I would I don't want to approve I want to recommend that we don't approve the modification to the signage plan, you know? Okay. I just don't like I don't see a reason to do it. the specific the signage the signage if you think about it it's not and I'm not trying to convince anybody it's just my opinion I don't think it's that much of a change because although the square footage is going up a lot of it is directional signing so their branding is actually going down most of it is bay one bay 2 that still counts to the square footage so that's why it's going up I think the color is definitely an issue

I think the signage though I kind of think that there's ways to do the signage. You put a cone that says number one on it in front of the bay and number two and and it's not a sign and it's temporary and it's not amending the CPU and it will comply with the the what's already been done without us making more exceptions. Um, so I think that there's ways to I mean this sign that's pointing to around the way to the bay, they're saying nobody's going to even see it and then in front of the bays like put a traffic cone in front of each bay and when you say okay go to number one, you remove the cone, they go in. Like I think there's ways to do that. I mean, I obviously do not own Walmart or run automotive shops, but there seems to me that there'd be a way to do it that would not require a variance um to the CPU plan and increase the number of signs.

To me, it just feels like they could then start I mean, this isn't obviously what they're asking for, but like they could say like, "Oh, every part of the parking lot's going to be a part of our flyer as you drive up." And you know, like we could go all the way with the signs in a in a Walmart, but the the fewer signs makes the building feel a little more quaint. I think even though it's a Walmart. So if it means anything, the numbers over those doors are 1.56 square foot. This the numbers are small and they're just they're slightly the circle is slightly larger than the font itself. Yeah, it almost becomes part of the sign. It's just a different color. Yeah, the actual Walmart signs are shrinking.

Correct. Walmart signs are shrinking. If if we had that beer, wine, and spirit sign calculated, which for some reason was not, we would actually be reducing the overall square footage on the building. Did you say you would be reducing the square footage? Our overall reduction. Well, well, then why would you need us to approve the Because for some reason, we can't find a variance or a PUD amendment for the sign that is over the the beer section of the store. So we're trying to incorporate that now to make it legal, but we're also changing the number. So it would still need to come before the number of signs is changing. Yeah. Because the signs are changing at all in a PUD. We have to amend the PUD to make it this is now the standard.

Could I just ask um um I'm just looking at the I'm thinking about the square footage of the signs versus the quantity of signs. And I I have I guess a question for you and then maybe a question for my colleagues here. Do we have more heartburn over the increase in square footage or is it the number of signs before anybody says anything is I mean we're talking about a foot or foot and a half, right? So there is there no way for you to get the square footage that you want? I mean can you not find a foot somewhere? Like I said we actually have over 20 feet extra if that other sign had been calculated. The sign exists.

I got you. But it's not here, right? So it's not it's not there, right? So the I guess that's I guess I'm tr I'm having some trouble over why why you I mean can you not fit it in within the existing uh square footage? We could I mean we could get down below the 6.7 or 607.58 but realistically what is existing on the building is 636.87 87. But the beer wine got liquor isn't in the current. It's the non-existing uh invisible sign, right? It's most likely on the address

because I believe it's 4159. There's a It's a totally separate address because a totally separate entrance, but it is part of the front facade. So, we're counting it towards front facade signage on this current beauty amendment. But to answer your question, we could probably in one of these signs get rid of the two square foot so that we're under what the feud would be allowed, but we would still be over number of signs. Yeah. Um because of the additional signs that you want, right? I mean, that's what you wanted to do. It's really it's for the auto center, I believe, now when they make reservations and stuff, it'll tell them which bay to pull up to.

Got it. And so that's then that brings me to the I guess it was the first question I asked. How does the board feel about that these 10 additional signs? If if it's if it is within the square footage and the purpose is identified is more about directional. How do we feel about that? We we have concerns about the 10 additional signs. I cannot on paper it looks bad like compared to other projects that have came before us where they're trying to add signs that's just in your face. So that's kind of I think where some of the hesitation comes from. looks bad on paper, but when you see what the signs are, it makes sense and it doesn't seem like it's really impacting anything. Yeah. The signs that you do see that are impacting are actually getting smaller. So, my opinion is it doesn't bother me.

Okay. So, are we ready to make a motion? And does somebody are everybody's questions and comments is the um uh did I hear right that the petitioner has agreed to change the square footage to fit within the whatever existing square foot there is. We can propose it to Walmart for sure and we can make that proposal and in a in ouration recommendation in our motion. I feel like we need to put that onus on Walmart. Well, we still need to make a recommendation.

Show you the lightest gray color that they offer. Benjamin light. Oh, it went away. It went away. You're going to get a coupon, though. Okay. I guess my heartburn over the color. That's much better. It's not going to be a dark box, but also trim color. I think we need to maintain the Bahama shutters and some trim color for some differentiation and not have it all just, you know, I flat color.

Okay. So, I can't make a motion, but does somebody want to make a motion? And do we want to put it all in one large or do we want to break them up? Well, it seems like we should break them up. I I I can motion to recommend that we allow the modification um that puts the canopy for the entrance. I can second that based on the staff's recommendation. The canopy. Okay. So, we have a first and a second. Um anybody have any comments on that to deliberate? Um okay. So then a vote on that motion.

We're going to separate them then we can vote on this motion and then continue after. Yeah. Okay. Board member Graasso. Yes. Board member Paul Mary. Yes. Vice Chair Olette. Yes. Chair Peterson. Yes. Board member Vogle. Yes. Board member Sher. Yes. And board member Samuel. Yes. Motion passes. Okay. Do we have anybody else to make another motion on some of our items? Well, and to make it easy for you, the items are up on the screen.

There you go. So, we've done the canopy. We need the size of the signs. Oh, face changes. I say we recommend against the pickup banner. Second. Can you state as a motion? I'd like to make a motion to recommend against the pickup banner. Any seconds? Second. Do we do a roll call? I'm confused. What? You're motioning for what again? There's the banner on the the like the flag banner on the pole. That's not allowed by city code. Okay.

So, the motion is to not have the pickup sign. Yeah. Oh, and do we have any discussion? Pickup banner. Sorry. Okay. Any discussion on that motion? I'm okay with the pickup sign. So, we'll do a roll call and then you can vote depending on how you feel. So, just to be clear right now, we're voting against the B. We are vote I made the motion against the banner. Got it. Okay. Board member Sharer. Uh, yes. Board member Vogle. Yes. Board member Paul Mary. Yes. Board member Silmoff, no. Board member Graco, yes. Chair Peterson, yes.

And Vice Chair Olette, yes. Motion passes 61. Okay. So, we still need motion. Make a motion for to not approve the color scheme change to the dark gray and recommend the color scheme be revised to be a lighter shade that meets the Steuart code requirements as well as have a um differentation um different shade of the uh trim and uh um shutter awnings. Do we have a second? I will second that. Any discussion?

Roll call. I'll just repeat it till we Okay. Have it right for the record. So, we're um not approving the dark gray. We would like a lighter shade that fits within our city code and a different trim, different color trim. Chair Peterson. Yes. Vice Chair Olette. Yes. Board member Vogle. Yes. Board member Sher. Yes. Board member Graco, yes. Board member Seieloff, yes. And board member Paul Mary, yes. Motion passes.

Do we have any other motions? I would move that um u I guess on the signage it's sort of two different bullet points there but um I would recommend that the applicant uh install uh 6 or remain they can change the signs but fit within the existing 607.58 square feet of signage space. Are you restricting our number of signs at all or just the square footage? Uh, I'm not opposed to the additional signs. So, my motion would if they if they need 28 signs to do it, so be it. Any seconds? And this could just be for discussion.

I'll second. Any discussion? Can you repeat the motion one more time? I have Would you like to repeat? Let's have you It's um change the signage to fit the current square footage. Um the number of signs itself doesn't matter. Got it. Uh I wouldn't open it. I would say they could up to the as they have it the plan 28. Yeah. 28. Any discussion on the number of signs or reducing the square footage? Okay. Did we get we had a second? So now we can do a roll call. Board member Graasso. Yes. Board member Silmoff. Yes. Vice Chair Olette.

Yes. Chair Peterson. Yes. Board member Sharer. Yes. Board member Paul Mary. Yes. And board member Vogle. Yes. Motion passes. I don't know that we discussed the face changes to the existing monument signs. What's happening to the existing monument sign? Walmart Spark. Now they're just going to say Walmart. Oh. And I guess they'll they'll be painted to reflect the color of the building. Okay. Which should be very similar to what it has now. Okay. The Walmart font's increasing in size, I assume, by getting rid of the spark.

So, hold on. Let me find my piece of paper that shows me that. According to the narrative of the application, the signage is not being increased. Okay. The signage is I think they meant like we're not changing the monument size at all as far as the actual font. We might be let me look.

It's still going to fit within the confines of the column. Um it does look like it's a slightly different size only because our font changed ever so slightly. Okay. Do we have a motion? Motion to recommend allowing the monument sign uh changes. Second.

Any discussion? Who second that? Mr. Sorry, I'm learning your voices. And that motion was to allow the monument signs. Correct. Yes. Changes. Chair Peterson. Yes. Board member Sealoff. Yes. Vice Chair. Yes. Board member Graco. Yes. Board member Vogle. Yes. Board member Sher. Yes. and board member Paul Mary. Yes. Motion passes. Did we catch everything?

Can I ask you a quick question? So these changes that are proposed from this board, we need Can we hear you and the microphone, please? Sorry. I was asking Michelle if these changes that you guys have proposed in this board, we need to address those and have those to you before the next meeting. Correct. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you. Okay. Um, any staff updates? I guess we did that already. Yeah, I'm unaware of any. Okay. Um, then are we ready to adjourn the meeting? Yes. Meeting is adjourned. Thanks everybody.