Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Get going. It's 05:32 on 01/22/2026. I welcome everybody to the City of Stockton Planning Commission meeting. Roll call, please.

Chair Sanguinetti? Present. Vice chair Hull?

Present.

Commissioner Graves?

Here.

Commissioner Oaks? Here. Commissioner Crowder? Here. Commissioner Amman is absent. Commissioner Hernandez? Here. We have a quorum.

Perfect.

Okay. I'm gonna have commissioner Oaks lead us in the pledge allegiance, please. And that Panda asked me last time why

I didn't do Why I didn't do it right?

Yep. I pledge allegiance

flag I pledge of The United States Of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. Okay, our first item of business is adoption of the consent calendar. That'll be approval of Planning Commission minutes for 04/10/2025, 04/24/2025, and 05/08/2025, attachments A, B, and C to the agenda. The way it will work will be is if you weren't present at the meeting, because we do have a lot of commissioners that weren't here maybe, and if you weren't present, you the only way you can vote on this is if you have watched the video and read the minutes. And so, is there anybody that wants to disclose anything regarding that?

Vice Chair, I have been able to watch the video of all three and read the minutes of all three.

Okay. So, that leaves myself, Commissioner Hall, and Commissioner Graves, who were all present according to the minutes in that. And so, that gives us a quorum to where we can take this. Anybody that hasn't watched the minutes and read the minutes themselves will not be able to participate in the vote. You'll be abstaining from that vote. So, is there any motion to take these as a whole, or do we need them individually? One moment. Is there any comments from the audience?

Were you talking about public comment or

just Yes, public comment.

Yes, do.

Okay. Specifically,

Okay. Only consent calendar three is the item we're taking. Okay. So, seeing none, is there a motion?

I'll make a motion, Chair, to approve the consent item calendars for, hello, put my glasses on, for 04/10/2025, 04/24/2025, and 05/08/2025.

Is there a second?

I second that.

Okay. We have a motion by Vice Chair Hall and a second by Commissioner Graves. Cast your votes, please. Why are the buttons working?

I just need a vote from Hernandez and abstaining.

Abstaining, okay.

Okay, motion carries or four zero with everybody that was able to vote. Thank you. Okay, next item is item four on the agenda. It's public comment time. Are there any public comments?

Yes. Mary Elizabeth.

Okay. Mary please step forward.

Through the chair, what would you like the time limit for that to be?

Two minutes.

Two minutes.

We'll see how well she does.

Mary Elizabeth Stockton resident. The 2040 general plan which was adopted in 2018 had a specific action item that called for the city to develop a map that identifies the locations of mini markets, gas stations, fast food restaurants, check cashing establishment, tobacco stores, and alcohol retail locations. That map has not been created. I ask that you consider requesting staff to implement that action from the General Plan. The general plan also discussed equitable access to healthy foods.

And I would ask that the City of Stockton develop a map of full grocery stores so that we can focus our attention where needs are most prevalent. Also other committees I've asked for reference documents and I would ask that city staff provide any a planning commissioner a copy a written copy of the general plan if they so desire. And yesterday I heard it. Words. From Sylvia Son Minnick, a former council member and a local historian.

And she spoke of the importance of the Cultural Heritage Board and that the board would be involved in developing stories that can strengthen our community network as well as preserving buildings. So when you're considering whom to appoint, please keep in mind the importance. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there any other public comments?

Yes. Philip Merlo? Are

you trying to get it right, Philip? Is there any other cards?

Yes.

Okay.

David Rockovich.

I

just want to introduce And we just submitted, recently preliminary plans to the city to develop a permanent museum site there as we complete the restoration of a historic minesweeper, one of the largest types of minesweeper that was built here in Stockton in the early nineteen fifties. We've been in business for thirteen years. We've come a long ways. We're getting ready for a prime time debut. We wanted to encourage the planning commission here to reinstate the cultural heritage board because we're gonna be doing a lot of work with them.

We're gonna be taking down a building and reconstructing a a reproduction of the historic Kohlberg Boatyard Building, which burned down a couple years ago. We had plans to move that building, but, unfortunately, the homeless got to it first. So we're gonna build a reproduction of that. That's gonna require some approval by the cultural heritage board. And I see they're here tonight. I hope they're gonna get, appointed because we have work before them coming up soon. We plan to make a full presentation to the board here soon. This was just a introduction tonight and to encourage the appointment of these commissioners who we've met and dealt with before they were before their terms expired or whatever whatever happened here recently. Happy to answer any questions if you have any. Otherwise, that's all I have to present at this time.

I will make a statement. I look forward to seeing your restoration of Kohlberg Boats work.

Well, thank you.

And your museum downtown here.

Thank you. Also, we're we're doing an open house in April. Make sure all of you get an invitation. We Since I have four seconds, we have visitors come from the entire country to visit this ship. These are sailors, men who served on these ships. This is the last one of a 101 that were built. So those other a 100 vessels are gone. The children, grandchildren, wives of those sailors come to Stockton. We do we're not open to the public yet, so we do two open houses a year. These are one day open houses, and we'll get between three hundred and three hundred fifty people showing up that come into town from all over the country to see this ship. So we're quite excited about what it'll be when we get it downtown, and we're open during the week school trips and and visitation.

One more question. Yes. That's the minesweeper that's out by Lewis Park?

Yes. It is.

Okay.

Yeah. I'm familiar. It's it's been well hidden for a number of years because it looked like what's I was gonna say crap. It looked I understand. Looked pretty rough. And now it's about 85% complete. So with that, I'm I'm finished with my short presentation. Thank you.

Thank you.

I will have a presentation next time with slides. Okay.

Next, Philip Merlo.

Philip Merlo.

Hi there. My name's Philip Merlo. I'm on the Cultural Heritage Board, you know, proud Stocktonian executive director of the County Historical Museum. I wanted to just kind of give a briefing to the Planning Commission. It's an exciting time for local history enthusiasts, and I think it's an exciting time for the heritage economy.

The Maritime History Museum is a big deal, and they've spent tens of thousands of hours restoring the ship to near perfection. And I think that there's gonna be a real heritage economies add on and value to downtown that comes from this. In addition to the Maritime History Museum, we have four other major museum projects taking place in Stockton right now, or actually five. Between there's an effort to build a black history museum that's been led by a coalition of folks through the NAACP and the Black Chambers of Commerce. There's an effort to build history center in North Stockton, and historically Cambodian and Laos neighborhoods.

The Seek American History Project has received a lot of funding. I can't get too into it, but $750,000 from a foundation in New York to start planning for a Seek American National Museum at the Gerdwara, which of course is in city limits. And then, Okage Sama, a Japanese American historical group, is working to turn the Stockton incarceration site at the fairgrounds into a state park. Beyond that, Little Miller Rising is restoring the Le Gennaro Del Trebajo Lodge in South Stockton. And, the County Historical Museum, my organization, we recently acquired the Crest Building, and are planning to build a major history museum right in Downtown Stockton.

And, one thing that I'd like to encourage the planning commission that I think comes from this is that all these indigenous projects that are trying to build historical sites and monuments and museums, those are good. But you also have to have legislation that supports that. And in the next few months, courtesy of the hard work of the planning staff, planning department staff, which I think has, been something they've been working on for a while. In the next few months, I'm hopeful that the Mills Act will come before this body. And I hope that you guys view that favorably.

I know I've only got no more time. But the Mills Act is pro historic heritage act that the city can opt into that can allow for owners of historic properties to make a 40 to 60% tax deduction. So significant savings to historic property owners in exchange for preserving their properties. And I hope that that law, when it comes before the Planning Commission for review and potential recommendation to the City Council, I hope it's viewed favorably. Because I think we're gonna need it if we wanna see real change in the historic center of the city. Thank you.

Thank you, Philip. Okay. Is there any other public comments?

That concludes general public comment.

Is there anybody out there that wants to speak? Not regarding any of the next issue, but anything regarding planning. Okay, seeing none, we'll move on to item number five. Public hearings, environmental assessments, and it's there are no public hearings. We're going to go to new business, which is item six, six point one, looks like that's a planning number twenty five-fourteen thirty.

Cultural heritage board interviews. I'm going to have staff present what the what we're here to do based upon staff's recommendations and then from there we'll go forward.

Okay, I would like to just provide a brief overview. You have a staff report that we provided out to you to try to explain the process and the fact that the Planning Commission provides for the appointment of Planning Commissioners and then ultimately the City Council approves whatever comes out of the Planning Commission for recommendations for filling Cultural Heritage Board vacancies. So the Cultural Heritage Board is a nine member board. They have four year terms similar to Planning Commission and they're staggered terms so that way when the time runs up for the four year period you don't lose everybody at one time. So I want to make sure that's clear that it's very similar to Planning Commission.

And a couple of the positions that will be filled this evening have half terms because there's a couple of them that either someone resigned or was removed from the board previously. So I want to make that clear the responsibilities of the board are for the consideration of and making recommendation on the establishment of landmarks, sites, historic preservation districts, certificates of appropriateness, structures of merit, among other responsibilities that the Cultural Heritage Board is responsible for.

Can I interject one thing? Sure. Can you explain to all of us up here the one thing that you mentioned that is responsible for and I think it has to do with a fifty year life of a structure they make a decision?

Yeah, there's multiple things and that kind of falls into that other category as far as even on demolitions for structures that are 50 years and older that there's a consideration that's made it can be made under the director's authority in certain times it's elevated to the cultural heritage board for their determination on whether or not it's Well that we all distort, you know potentially

it's 50 years isn't that old really. We're talking back to 1976 from today's date. So, there's a lot of structures that have been built since '19, prior to 1996 that are in that era of construction that whether they're historical or not is questionable. Right.

So again in the staff report there are currently three board members that have active terms and there's six vacancies due to term expirations, resignations, removal that I just mentioned. Board member whose terms have expired may continue to serve on the board in order to provide continuity of board business until such time that the new appointments are made. As laid out in the staff report, the board membership should have at least one member in extensive real estate experience, experience in construction industry, an architect, historian, archaeologist, and a resident of the city for over forty years. And the current membership right now has two historians and one of them is not identified as far as having, say, an expertise a certain area. So, this evening we're holding interviews with eight candidates that have submitted applications to the clerk's office.

And staff will be asking a series of two questions, and planning commissioners will be assigning a ranking for each candidate with a first choice being a seven, and the seventh choice being a one. Okay, so that's how the scoring sheets are before you, And they're these right here. It also specifies on there as far as your top choice should be the seven and the last choice should be the one. And so you'll have the scoring sheets on the dais. I've provided pens in case you don't have pens to fill it in because you want to make some notes, you know, as far as who ultimately at the end of the course of the eight interviews that we conduct here.

We'll want a tally at the very end for you to fill out your form in number sequence, top versus the lowest, and you'll at the end of the process, you'll submit that down the dais to me and I'll be reading them off and our city clerk will be using the board here to identify where the candidates end up at as far as being appointed or appointable, I guess, based on your ranking, okay? So then ultimately you'll take an action after you receive the vote tally. Is that okay? Does anyone have a question in regards to that?

No? Okay. All

right. So let me go ahead, Jeff. Chair.

We I think if I recall last time when I was on this commission, we went through this before.

Yeah.

Same thing. And that but I thought we had talked about the number of positions on the board. Yeah. What we have is nine total positions, right? Yeah. Okay. Which is really referring back to our old council of nine, really,

is where

it comes from. And that why are we staying with nine versus going to seven? I thought we discussed some time ago that we were going to go back to, know, It amend that to

was already changed before. It was more than that, than nine. So, it was reduced to nine. I don't remember what it was prior. It was how many? 16. So it was reduced to nine because a quorum for the original 16 was extremely challenging.

Quorum for nine can be hard.

Yeah, but they have been able to for the most part get a quorum for the nine. So that's what it is and it's written in the code. So you're gonna need to

amend No, the I thought we discussed changing To it to match our council.

Before we did that we had a discussion even with the cultural heritage board in regards to that number as far as going to that nine. So anyhow, I hope that answers your question as far as in regards to at least what's in the code today, it's nine.

I understand what's in the code. I'm not sure it answers my question, but I, you know, I mean, why don't we go to seven like our council is, like this board is, and like most of our commissions are centered around what the number of council members not beyond that which makes we've all seen where it's hard to get quorum sometimes. So that's one reason why I question it.

Yeah.

I have a commissioner Oakes has a question.

More comment in response to what you said is, I think it would be appropriate to be seven if in fact we had one from each district, but it looks like to me that it's not required that one be from each district and therefore, it seems to me appropriate that we try to have a number that balances the interests of our weird, if you will, city limit lines, the way they juggle and jiggle. And I noticed that some of the people on the in up for reconsideration or consideration for appointment live in the same districts. And what I read about those people's experience and what I know about their experience, it would be a shame to lose them because they didn't live in a district. Think for the purposes of what they do, a recommended by

I see your point. However, I'll just clarify something. There's other boards that don't require you to live in the district, yet they still only have the same number of

No, a little more democracy is not a bad thing.

Okay. Okay. It was just a question.

All right.

Chair, if I could

go ahead.

Go ahead and finish up.

Okay. So the way the interviews are gonna work, we're gonna sequester all of the applicants that showed up this evening to go through the interview process. And we'll have staff escort them to the back room, and we'll be bringing out each individual candidate to go through the interview process separately. And then once that interview has been conducted with that candidate, they can remain in the chambers because their interview process is done. But we want to make sure it's fair that's why we're sequestering the applicants in the room before they get to hear others, you know, being interviewed. So I think we can go ahead and proceed as far as with having staff.

Sure.

Through the chair we do have one public comment for this item.

Oh, okay.

Yes, I wanna hear a comment before we proceed.

Philip Merleau.

Philip Merleau again, director of the County Historical Museum. I'm just here to endorse the candidacies of the current incumbents. I think that there's only four people that applied, correct? No, there's more than that. Okay. Okay. Well, I'm happy to endorse the folks that currently applied that are incumbents. I think Bill Maxwell, Bob Holzer, Leon Bach, and Matt Holmes are all historians. They have a lot of skill and knowledge of the cultural heritage process. I'm currently on the board right now.

I've been on the board since 2017. What I have to say is that the four incumbents that are currently up happen to be some of the most qualified people in the history of the board. I mean, we're talking about people with master's degrees in public history, like Matt Holmes, who used to run and wrote the interpretive plan for the Rosie The River Historic Site in the Bay Area. We've got people like Bob Holzer, who's the longest tenured member ever in the history of the Cultural Heritage Board, who happens to know the ordinance better than probably anybody. Bill Maxwell, right, is someone who's got a wealth of knowledge about the history of the city, Long time denizen and business person in Downtown Stockton.

Leon Bach is someone who has a master's degree in cultural resources management and is a broker in the real estate industry with experience in historic districts. So, when it comes to people the recent history of the Cultural Heritage Board, these are people who show up to meetings, which is important for quorums. Right? And on top of that, they're also They have a depth of expertise. And, it's something that I would be greatly ashamed and sad if we lost that expertise on the board. And, I recognize that a lot of us live in historic Stockton, but that's because we love historic Stockton. Thank you.

Thank you, Philip. I want a little clarification just from my own knowledge. We have three current board members, correct?

That's correct. And those three are? They're in the staff report, but I can name them off as far as Brian Baldion, Thomas Groom, and Philip Merlo.

Okay. And so, we have six vacancies to fill, and we're going to stagger those, right?

Yeah, the clerk's office will help go through the process of staggering and filling out the terms.

How much longer do each of the current board members have?

The current ones expire on 10/31/2026.

So, the whole board could be new because we'll lose the three that are there October 31

Of this year.

Of this year.

Yep.

There's nine positions. So, at the turn, there'll be another process to put three more back on at Yeah, the end of this

when those terms come up, we'll be going through this process again to appoint new members to fill those vacancies.

Okay, just wanted to be clear, and I wanted to know specifically Sure. What's going on. Okay.

All right.

So, if anybody else has any questions on this commission, feel free. Otherwise, we'll sequester the applicants and move forward.

Karen Chair, I just wanted to disclose that I do have a working knowledge of a few of the applicants, but there is no financial gain of any way. There's been no conversations. And I know that I can stay impartial to the whole thing.

Thank you. I'll make the statement, that same disclosure myself. I do know one of the board members today in that. And I think I've met the other ones in the past briefly. Anyway, so I'm ready to move forward.

Okay. So what I'd like to do is have Cynthia Boyd remain in the chambers and have the other applicants follow Scott here who's on the end to bring you into the back room.

Yeah. Yes,

probably.

Okay.

Commissioner Graves.

I know Philip Merlo from around town. I think I sold him a t shirt like twelve years ago. Nine years ago? Yeah, nine years ago. Just wanted to, and I think we're friends on social media maybe, but that's it. Yeah. He

was in Rotary with us.

Just wanted to disclose that. I don't wanna get in trouble

with the Brown Act. Fine.

It was about the Brown Act. I want wanna get in trouble with the Brown Act.

You're fine.

Whatever they got going. Okay

and Chair I'd like to make one more point before we get started and then I'll have Ms. Boyd come up to the podium. Is that it's possible. Took a look around, looked like we had quite a few of the candidates here but if for some reason one of the candidates did not show up it's not a requirement for this interview process. But that's something you guys can take into consideration of whether or not they're here or did not choose to show up or had something come up, I'm not sure.

I just wanted to make it clear that that's not a requirement. So you could rank an individual that didn't show up, you know, in whatever order you want based on their application that was included in the packet. So we did include the applications for every single candidate. But again, we tried contacting all these folks to indicate that, you know, this meeting's happening, you need to show up here at this time, but there's no assurances. So I just wanted to point that out that it's not a requirement, but that's something that you can take into consideration when you're considering the candidates at the very end, okay? So, just have you

gotten any calls from any of the applicants that said they would No. Not be So, nobody's contacted you

Right, to say they cannot They

may not be here. Yep. Okay, all right, fair enough.

Okay, we'll go ahead and have Ms. Boyd stand at the podium. I know she's well aware of how to hit that green button. Seen you many times at City Council. So, thank Thank you you.

For being Yeah, the clerks will be setting a time limit for the interview questions. There's going to be two questions that are going to be asked of me and you'll be responding obviously to the Commission, you know, as far as with your responses. Ultimately, the Commission will be, as you've listened in, providing a ranking of each candidate based on their application and based on your responses to the questions. Yes, sir. And so it's approximately four minutes for each question.

We've kind of laid that out for the clerk to keep an eye on the time. And I'll go ahead and get started if you have no questions. Okay. And if in the process, even though I'm asking the questions, if there's something you need clarity on in regards to a response from one of the applicants, please go through your chair to ask that.

One question chair. Sure. Excuse me if this is ignorance, but just my first time doing this. We have round one, two, three or four. In my head, how I'm looking at this, don't worry

about worry about the

Everybody first, and then after we're done listening to everybody, we'll do our ranking, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't worry about the rounds part. Just, it ultimately is gonna come down to I'm sure you got it on here. Know, it's the clerk's form, but I think it's easier just using the seven is the top. Think it's And go in order of six, five, four

Wait, I just wanted to clear

And we're not gonna have four rounds.

The only, no, no. No, we're good. Yeah, you're just

That's the answer. I wanted to make

sure they weren't getting follow-up questions like, okay, hey, they made it past Nope, nope. The prelims, let's get to the next round.

Alright. Yeah, we're gonna keep this fairly straightforward and simple for you guys. Yep. Okay, thanks for asking that question though. I do appreciate that. Okay.

Good question.

All right, Jerry, you ready? Yes. Okay. All right, first question.

No.

Yeah, no buzzer.

What are trying? Yeah, ready? Okay. All right, first question. If you could, please tell us about yourself and why you want to serve on the Cultural Heritage Board.

Thank you. My name is Cynthia Gil Boyd. I'm a native of Stockton. I still reside on family property in the neighborhood in which I was born. We own two properties on the same land. I'll be 72 years old next week, if the Lord says the same. So I've been around for a mighty long time. I know Stockton, every area of it. I would like to be on this particular board because of the cultural heritage part. I believe in preservation.

I come from a background where I've done many, many things in Stockton besides appear at City Council since 12/02/2008. I was the first Miss Black Stockton. I cut the ribbon for the Crosstown Freeway to be opened. I retired from California Youth Authority at 39 years old. I served sixteen years air force reserve.

I earned the rank of e six with two career three career fields. I started in supply, then I became a combat arms instructor, and then I promoted to be the assistant to the wing commander at Travis Air Force Base. I'm dedicated to everything that I do. I'm number nine out of 10 children. I have taken care of all of my family.

I've been a foster parent. I have dedicated myself to the community of Stockton. I was co founder of Inner City Theater, the only cultural theater to be in existence in the black community in Stockton. I co founded Jazz on the Waterfront, two successful years without any issues at all. Many, many things make me qualified as a dedicated person.

I think that my strengths, first of all, that I'm a true humanitarian, not just an Aquarian, but I do believe in humanity, and I've demonstrated that by verbal protest, physical protest. So I stand for what I believe, and I've done that for years. I believe that I have great problem solving skills, and especially after dealing with the youngest to the oldest of the youthful offenders. My communication skills are great written and verbal, but I'm also a great listener, and I'm task driven. I've been on board for Stockton before for two terms, and enjoyed that.

So, I do seem like a serious person, but I'm also a fun person. And, I work well together, as well as being an individual. Okay. I did not mention earlier that I was a realtor, as well, for ten years. So, certainly, I heard the strings of other people.

My first job was with Coldwell Banker Group, and I made the millions. I believe, like when mister Spanos had agreed, that they would preserve the lands out north so that they wouldn't be built on. I believe that we've run out of space, and that what we have, we need to preserve. And when I say run out of space, like I say, I live in the neighborhood that I was born and raised in. The streets were built for maybe two cars to park on it if you're lucky to have a second car, and now you can't even park on the streets because there's so many.

I live in a community that was probably built in the nineteen forties, And so, all around me are beautiful old homes, just like this beautiful building here. And I think that, like this building, once it's vacated, it certainly should be preserved, and I have a lot of personal ideas about what could be done in this building. The same thing when the courthouse was built, and they use it now for the district attorney's office. So, believe in preservation. As far as demolition, I think that it's costly.

I think that it destroys the beauty of the city. I think that there's no more land. I was thinking about moving out of Stockton years ago, and mister Gaines was a barber in Stockton. And one thing that he warned me about, he says, don't sell your dirt. Because what that means is you can't get any more of it.

And, now Stockton is running into Lathrop, Manteca, Oakdale, into Riverbank, and so, pretty soon, there will be no more space. And, I'm probably forgetting the second part of the question. But, I believe in holding on to what you have. And, I learned that from my family. My grandfather was 110 years old.

My uncle was 100 years old. My cousin on my father's side lived to be 108 years old. So I have a deep concern about history, And I know a lot about the history of Stockton. So, think that we've got to hold on to what we have. We've got to save our dirt. That's the way that I feel. Thank you, sir. Thank you so much. You.

Hang on. We need a one minute recess for

a Sure. Okay. Okay, so we have next candidate Mr. Holmes up for the interview. There's going to be two questions that will be asked.

I will be asking the questions and we have four minutes allocated for each response for each two questions. So you have four minutes for each. And don't feel like you have to use the full four minutes and But, wait for that you know, try to be concise, obviously, and try to address the question as asked. Okay. So, first question is, if you could tell us about yourself and why you want to serve on the Cultural Heritage Board.

So, you know, I was a history teacher for about seven years before I became a National park ranger. My mom was a social studies teacher, and I've always felt like memory was how my family gave its life meaning. And, I had this really special experience where I got to work in Richmond and a Port Chicago Naval Weapons Magazine, And I got to work alongside folks in their nineties, and I was kinda like the young guy that could reach stuff and drive cars and carry luggage. So I got to go on all the traveling trips with the gals in their nineties. And I got to be a part of this transmission that was in oral history, but I got to wear a uniform and people took me seriously.

And, I got to sit in the middle of two communities that had been really shamed, Right? Like, Richmond was the bottom of the Bay Area, and everybody told a bad story about it. The Port Chicago 50 were the 50 most insidious mutineers in the history of The US Navy. And I got to personally help translate those stories, I and got to excavate that history. And, I got to celebrate history while I interrogated it, while I valorized formerly, you know, ignominious stories.

And, you know, that resulted in both those stories. In Richmond, we used the Historic Preservation Tax Incentive Credit and Cultural Landscape Report and the Mills Act to lead an economic revitalization of a city that's doing very well as a result of it. At Port Chicago Naval Weapons Magazine, we told the story so truthfully that the US Navy secretary of the US Navy exonerated 348 men, eighty years after they were wrongfully convicted of mutiny and dishonorably discharged. Stockton has globally significant stories, as we heard about the Lucid. You know, that ship has been masterfully restored.

It's one of the last artifacts. It tells the story of our great tangle with the Soviet Union. I'm someone who can tie this place to a globally and nationally significant story. I see the valor in this place. I'm not from here. I always joke that I think I like it more than people who are. And I'm personally committed to this building and craftsmen that did relief work like this that no one else will ever pay to do again. K. Oh, yeah. And Mills Act is other people's money. We should all be cool with that.

All right. I'm looking over at the chair and others. Okay. If you could second question. So, four minutes. If you could please describe your perspective on balancing historic preservation and redevelopment sorry, let me read this one more time. Please describe your perspective on balancing historic preservation and redevelopment that may entail demolition or major building and site modifications?

Yeah. So I'll start off by saying I'm an I'm an I'm an anti racist activist. I'm an environmental justice leader statewide. I work for communities of color because it's hard to lynch me when I go to Sacramento. Right? And I work for them. I report to them. And I think housing and justice are the most important things that happen around here. And I think when it's pitted against development, I think that's a fool's choice. We've seen time and time again that when we embrace our history and we save these assets that have things built into them like time, that nobody else can pay for those.

So, don't think they're at odds. I think what's at odds is that places like Stockton are trained to think that they're lucky that anybody wants to dance with them. It's like when you're the ugly guy at a middle school dance, anybody that offers a dance, you you think you think you're glad. I think I think we are prettier than we know we are, and I think we need to do a better job of telling a heroic story and for gouging the heart out of the state of California that is one of the greatest wealth creating regions in all of human history and simultaneously the home of the most poverty impacted households in the country. And that equity is good for everybody in Stockton, COVID should have taught us all that.

Okay. So that concludes the interview.

Thank you.

All right, he needs another minute.

Next up, we'll have Robert Holzer.

Robert Holzer.

Hello, commissioners. Okay,

Mr. Holzer.

Yes, Mike.

I have two questions that I'll be asking of each of the candidates.

Okay.

And you'll be responding to the commission, but I'll be asking the questions. And there's four minutes allocated for your responses to each of those two questions. Okay. Okay, so if you can try to keep it concise and within the time frame. Okay, so we'll go ahead and get started if the clerks are ready. So if you could please tell us about yourself and why you want to serve on the Cultural Heritage Board.

Okay. As was mentioned by by Philip, I'm the longest board member, I guess, in the history of the Cultural Heritage Board. I originally served on the board from 1990 to 2022, and I couldn't continue to serve because the city had passed the they wanted to I don't know if they call it an ordinance or whatever, wanting to kind of standardize all the boards and commissions. So they so it was limited to two terms. Well, needless to say, I far exceeded that.

So, I wasn't on I haven't been on the board since 2022. However and we talk about a big issue with attendance. First of all, in the thirty two years I was on the board, I missed two meetings. In since 2022 that I've been off the board, I've attended every cultural heritage board meeting.

Okay.

Second question. Please describe your perspective on balancing historic preservation and redevelopment that may entail demolition or major building and site modifications.

Well, you know, we I'm not even sure how to answer that. I think, you know, I know that we have to have economic concerns as to with the buildings and so on. You know, I was involved with back when the city wanted to demolish all those historic hotels in downtown and so on, and made a presentation to the city council, and they didn't listen to me, but then it got overturned in the courts and so on. But, you have to weigh all the factors there. I'd like to say you preserve every building, but it's just not economically feasible in some cases.

That's all.

Okay. All right. You can go ahead and have a seat and remain in the chambers if you wish. All right, next up we'll have William Maxwell.

Good evening. Hi, Am I to make a statement or are you just go right No, to the

actually I'm going to I'll introduce as far as we're going have a series of two questions presented to you. And I'll be asking the questions, but obviously you'll be speaking to the Planning Commission. And we're going to keep the responses to four minutes for each question asked. So, if you do your best to be concise and stay within the four minutes for each. And I'll start out with the first question for you. If you could please tell us about yourself and why you want to serve on the Cultural Heritage Board.

Well, I'm already serving on the Cultural Heritage Board. But, I am a fourth generation Stocktonian, born at Damron Hospital, as was my father and as was my son. I have lived in Stockton since '19 I came, was born here, moved away, came back in 1975 after college, and immediately went into the second hand book business with the Harvard Book Store at 715 East Main Street. And I've been in the used and rare book business ever since. I owned that store, the Harvard.

I worked there, and then I wound up buying it eventually when it was on Market Street. And then, I bought, I opened my own little shop in the Yosemite shopping district and then bought the bookmark on Pacific Avenue on the Miracle Mile in 1981 and ran that until finally I saw the writing on the wall with the Internet and decided that it was time to get out of the bricks and mortar book business. And so, I now continue to sell books, rare books, and out of print books online. As a multi generational Stocktonian and as a resident here in Central Stockton, I live in Central Stockton as well. I've seen the city go through quite a metamorphosis since 1975 and not in a good way, especially when it comes to historic resources in the downtown area.

As Ray Hillman once, who was when he was director of the Haggen Museum once said, we've torn down all the best buildings in this town. Let's preserve, let's preserve the few good ones that are still left. So that, with that in mind, that is kind of one of the purposes that I, why I wanna be on the cultural heritage board is to have the ability to have input on preserving the few historic resources that are left. And through structures of merit, certificates appropriateness and also through awarding people and property owners who have done a good job of being stewards of their historic resource.

Thank you. Second question, if you could please describe your perspective on balancing historic preservation and redevelopment that may entail demolition or major building and site modifications?

Well, know, can't obviously, you can't preserve everything. And so, with the more important historic resources that can be saved, I, you know, I would try to work tirelessly with the owners to restore them and to maintain them. But, there comes a point where maybe they can't be saved. But, there's there are other options rather than tearing it down and turning it into a bunch of splinters. You can do things like what they did with the transit district where they saved the facade, saved the historic facade and build a new building behind it.

And I'm hopeful that maybe something like that can eventually happen to the Henry Apartment Building because that's probably the most significant historic, architecturally historic structure in the city. So, there's there has to be ways. I feel that there has to be ways to mitigate a lot of the issues that arise especially when it comes to you know code enforcement and upgrades to the you know to the different code levels for trying to bring a building that's a 150 years old up to twenty first century codes and standards. There should be some way, some mechanism to be able to mitigate some of those issues. Even when it comes, you know, to ADA accessibility, there needs to be some kind of leeway and way to and ways to mitigate it.

Lord knows that the developers find ways to mitigate, you know, their their developments and on farmland and things. So, there should be a way that we can find to mitigate some of the cumbersome rules and regulations that are that make redevelopment and make restoration and preservation difficult.

Okay, thank you. You may have us, you can remain in the chambers just to be clear. Okay. Next up will be Leon Bach.

Hello.

Allocated for each response to the questions.

You could just be concise with your responses.

Okay.

But you have four minutes for each of them.

Male

And I'll go ahead and ask the first question. And your responses should be addressed to the Planning Commission. If you could, please tell us about yourself and why you want to serve on the Cultural Heritage Board.

Okay. Well, I've been serving for the last couple years. First time I've been on a board and everything, so I really would like to stay on in terms of finally learning, getting my feet wet, and how everything works and stuff like that. My background is in archaeology. My degrees are in archaeology, historic archaeology.

I also have a license a broker's license too and background in a lot of construction work. I kinda tick a bunch of the boxes on there. I really enjoy Stockton history. Since I've come to Stockton with my partner, who's actually a dean at the Delta College, the more I've learned about Stockton history, I'm just amazed at what Stockton is and what, how little kind of it's out there and stuff like that. I didn't know half of this growing up in the Bay Area, and, stuff like that.

Never really had that the kind of comprehension of the things that Stockton has contributed in terms of everything, agriculture, machinery, all this sort of stuff. But I really I I just enjoy being on the board. I think the stuff I've been starting up lately, the nonprofit. Actually, there was a presentation, one of the last meetings we had here that, planning, Scott Spear put on about actually trying to get the Mills Act up and going. I actually wrote the ordinance, couple different versions of the ordinance that I submitted.

And so I wanna be instrumental in trying to get that going. So kinda rambled. But Well, one thing I've kind of been getting into, actually, I wish I had known Dan Court. You know, been here a long time ago and got that, but I've been reading or have read his book, Downtown Turnaround. And, I agree with him on pretty much everything.

My background in historical archaeology and this sort of thing, I always the penchant like a lot of preservationists to just sort of save everything as is, but I understand a lot more of the what you need to do in terms of multiuse sort of revitalization and that sort of thing. So I'm not one of the staunch guys of don't tear anything down, can't change at all, and have to be left aside. I understand being able to work within the frameworks of progress and money and all of that sort of stuff, but also a strong desire to keep a historical thing and the and the look of the the city and that sort of thing and the buildings and such like that. So I kinda I lean that way, but I understand what the kinda leniency you need to have to to work within these frameworks.

Okay. Thank you. You can go ahead and have a seat. Okay. Remain in the chambers.

Okay, so Chair, I was informed by our staff in the audience that is monitoring who showed up this evening and found there are three individuals that did not make it to the meeting. I do know that two of the applicants, Richard Slezak and Jenova Maraud, both communicated with staff indicating they were going to be here. So, staff did reach out to them and they indicated they were going to be here. I'm not sure, you know, we don't have any information on why they weren't able to show up, but they were intending on being here based on the conversation with staff. As far as Denise Sanders who's listed on there, staff was unable to get ahold of Denise in the way of determining if she was going to be available for the meeting.

So based on the interviews that have been conducted we had five individuals perform the interviews. We need six positions filled. So you could go through your ranking, but if you want to make a choice that the folks that showed up and were interviewed and you were able to hear from them, you could make that part of your consideration. You could also again, I think I mentioned earlier as far as if somebody didn't show up to the meeting, you could look at their credentials far as their application to determine at least one of them if you want to fill all six because we have only five that really went through the interview process and we have three that didn't make it. So you could consider a sixth if you wish to based on their credentials.

And the benefit I guess of that would be that it's always beneficial to have a full board and you guys should know of most that it's difficult having six commissioners which you had for quite some time. So having a full board or full commission, you know, that's something that is important. So I'll leave the considerations for you through the chair to deliberate. If we I don't think we really need to go through the rankings process at least at this point in time, but we could.

Chair, if I may. So it is ultimately the discretion of the body if you recommendation as to these five members and not go through the ranking. However, you can also go through the ranking because this commission can take in all evidence, all information that you received including the written materials, and still do the full ranking regardless, well, so inclusive of the verbal interviews that you received today. So I'll defer to you on that, Chair.

Can we this is hypothetical, okay? Let's say we I respect everybody that shows up when they know they have an interview, and I think that's very important, okay? So I'm saying what I'm trying to get at is, is I support the five members that or the five candidates that showed up to be recommended for approval to the cultural heritage board so council can move it forward in that. We could, I'm also a strong advocate of having full boards. We've had our issues where we haven't had full boards and it's caused some issues in that.

And so, we could go through the ranking of just the three that weren't here so that we could make a recommendation for the sixth member. Is that possible to take it that way?

Sure, if you'd like to do it that way chair, I think that I would just ask for two separate motions, making a motion to approve the five, and then you could go through a separate ranking and approve the sixth member based on the ranking. Would that be alright with so you would just instead of a seven ranking you would do a four for the one member?

It'd be three, two, one.

Yeah.

For that sixth member. So, agree 100% with one motion for all five and that we're here tonight and then do a second one so that we could fill the position or recommend filling the position. Council might not agree with that and maybe they don't wanna fill that second resolution that we would make. And that, so I just wanna make sure that that's possible, and I think you've cleared that air, so I understand how we can do it.

It's the discretion of the body to decide which factors it finds most important. If you believe that the verbal interviews tonight are indicative of the five that you would like to recommend, and then to take a separate motion on the remaining, you may do so.

Alright. We have Commissioner Oakes that has a question.

Thank you very much. I wanted to support your suggestion and your inquiry. I wanted to note that it was emphasized to us that because people didn't show up was not necessarily a disqualifying factor. They were not required to show up. And so, I agree.

I just just wanted to go on the record as saying clearly that under the circumstances, and balancing the interests, I don't like leaving the empty seat. I'm not thrilled that the three didn't. There could be very legitimate reasons for that though, and so I think that it would be fair to do two different things at the five that showed up, and then we'll see where we land on the third on the sixth, I guess it would be. There you

go. Thank you.

Vice Chair Hull. Yeah. I guess that my question would be is that I don't wouldn't we we could possibly come back at a later date and vote if we get those other three members to show up and vote on that one at a later date if we wanted to as well. Could have that possibility.

That is a possibility but there's no assurance. I mean we've been through this on other items on the Planning Commission. There's no assurance that they'll show up at the next go around, so.

Well, I'm going to make a statement about that, too. What that makes is that it holds up filling the positions on the it could hold up filling the positions of the five because council may not, it means two agendas for council possibly or holding up getting the five appointed earlier. There's a lot of possibilities that it introduces by taking us looking for a six person at a later date. And that so I really feel that we should either look at the sixth person based upon what we have in front of us and make a recommendation or I definitely believe we should take the five right now in that. Commissioner, amen.

I'm of the thought that you know they took time to fill out an application, at some point they wanted to serve on this and if you're going to go to those links you should at least show up here for your interview. So I don't wanna push this to where now we keep waiting and do another meeting and another meeting to have them come and they may not show up then. So I know life's sometime, but they really should have gotten in touch with someone to let somebody know. If they couldn't make it, maybe then we could have made a decision based off of maybe what their circumstances are. But they filled out the application. I would have loved to hear from them, they weren't here so I would just like to proceed.

If I may question you, what does that mean? Proceed with the five and not do a six?

Sorry, proceed with the five, I'm sorry. Not wait or you guys were talking about, oh, we can come back.

I don't wanna

come I don't wanna come back. They should've been here today. Sorry about that, I wasn't clear.

No problem, Commissioner. Commissioner Hull,

I'll actually make a motion if you'd like to approve the five minutes that we have. Is it too early to do that?

Can I hold that thought for a moment and then we'll come right back to Commissioner Graves?

Yeah, agree with pretty much everybody is thinking the same thing. I think the presentation and what everybody felt, I felt Stockton in here, it felt amazing. Unfortunately, the other people didn't show up. I do learn something we don't want to hold this whole process up while we're waiting. My only, and I might have to ask you guys this, is it possible to ask somebody who's currently on the board, do they know any of these other candidates? Can they just tell us about them? I don't know if that's illegal or not, because right now, only thing we have to go off of is what we're reading. That's fine.

He's got a point.

We could do that. I'm just curious, does anybody know the other applicants in any capacity that's currently on the board?

So in an abundance of fairness, I wouldn't recommend opening it up to additional commentary from outside parties just because each of the applicants should be able to offer you the same amount of information as everybody else. So they were each given an opportunity for public comments on their application for them to do their interview as well as for you to receive their written. So I would hesitate to broaden it for the remaining candidates in the event of any claims of disparity.

Okay, and my last question, I do want to move on, so if we have to vote on that six person tonight as well, whatever, we'll figure that out. But if we were just to vote on those five and have those three people on a later agenda, giving them another opportunity, would that prolong everything else? Yes. Okay, so

it It could.

Could. I agree with what's been indicated here. We could take it separately, but it's possible, you know, again, we don't know if they have to come back before you and go through the interview process. It it could be something that we'll we'll take in sequence as far as the initial five forward to counsel. It it could. Be Here It's not unusual. I'm gonna tell you just real quick in the past.

Chair, if I may. Sorry. Okay. Just a moment. We've additional information about the from the clerk's office regarding whether or not the interviews were in mandatory portion of it. Can I have just like a three minute recess to confirm with the clerk's office as well as the policy on

As soon as the Mr? McDowell's done, that'll be granted.

Okay, thank you so much.

Okay. And we've been here, maybe not amongst you folks, but on the Planning Commission before, where Planning Commissioners in the past not to say you have to take that step here, but there have been decisions in the past where planning commissioners looked at the credentials and did make the appointments of certain individuals just to fill the sick spots. So it's it wouldn't be unusual for you to do that. It's been done, but it's your choice. It's only I'm just informing you.

The one thing that I started to say, Mike, was is is what concerns me about having another agenda item at a later date, taking the five tonight and putting another agenda item on in that it, once we if we approve the five here tonight under one resolution, then it can move to council. And that means there's a staff report that has to be prepared for city council that takes a lot of time to prepare and get through the approval process to even put it on the council agenda. Okay? So, that would take care of one thing, but then to come back here means staff has to use staff time to put an agenda item for the other three or maybe the other three if they're still interested in that. And then, if we find if we go through an interview process, then we're gonna go through that interview like we're going tonight and then if we have a resolution, then that has to be passed on to counsel and done again.

So, the time that it takes and the effort that it takes is a big effort upon city staff to do it that way, that way. We can do it, but it's something that I really don't support. We have one more comment, okay, from a commissioner.

My comment was I am also not thrilled that we don't have at least a sixth person here. It would be better if all of them were here. They're not. But I would come down on in favor of a full board and recognize that the Cultural Heritage Board also has an attendance policy and so they could deal with this forthwith.

Right. Okay, I'm gonna have a recess for three minutes so council can talk with the clerk. So the ones that here the ones that say a b on them. Okay. Because I'm gonna I'm gonna give us time to look at So the ones with a b's?

Are you clear? Are you crystal clear?

Yeah. I cut the language. Okay. But, you know, excuse me. I'm not

under Okay.

Is everybody good? We're back in motion. Hi. Council, please advise us.

Thank you, chair. So the clerk's office brought to my attention language in council policy manual three point o two 3.02.10 regarding the interview process that I was not familiar with that I wanted to bring to your attention. So specifically under subsection 10 F it says that applicants not present for the interview will be automatically removed from further consideration for the recruitment period. So that does obviously change our discussion here. I was I'm not sure if the language was updated since the last time that we did the Cultural Heritage Board appointments, but this is the language we're operating under now.

So your motion with respect to the five is certainly still appropriate. However, we will recommend that any additional seats be filled with the separate recruitment process so you can actually do interviews.

Okay. So, that gives us a direction.

Vice

Chair Hull.

Yeah, we'll go back then to my motion and I will make the motion that we approve the five that are here for the Harris Board. So I don't know if that you do any.

We have a second by Commissioner Oaks, a motion by Commissioner Hall to accept without rating all five that were present tonight, to move forward to city council. Is that correct? Okay. So, given that motion and the second by Commissioner Oaks, please cast your vote. That was unanimous.

That's what we like, a full board so we can do this type of vote. Congratulations. We look forward to you guys moving forward. Hopefully, counsel will take it that direction.

Thank you all for coming.

Anytime, counsel. That made it easy for us.

Okay. This was a new business. This was amazing. It was a new business item. Order, we still are in a meeting.

I got people that want me to move this forward. Unfinished business. And we got a lot in my mind, but.

None at least to report on.

Well, maybe I do. Item eight, reports, communications, and informational items. I think, Mike, you have something.

Yeah, I have a couple of things. As far as the, I want to bring up again the academy. Again, have confirmation from all seven, which is great that you're going to be attending. We have staff, Adriana Guerrero in our office, and Azalea Fuentes, who have both been involved in trying to coordinate, contact you guys, because as you may be aware, booking flights, you need driver's license information in order to book the flights. And I'll just she's been trying to reach out to each and every one of you.

Those of you who've been contacted and provided the information, great. But if you haven't, could you please follow-up with Adriana in our office? Again, she should have left you a message, but I'll report to her after the meeting to try again as far as to reach out. Or you can contact her. If I can give you Adriana's phone number at the office, it's 209378484. You can also email her the information. Either one you're comfortable with works for us. So it's really important to get that done so that way we can get things booked and we don't lose out on not getting you reserved for a spot at the Academy.

You got us a suite? No.

Hey, we're on the Stockton dime. We're gonna make sure it's efficient and has a bed and a bathroom, right?

Three

houses. You're all in singles.

I wanna be on the Top Floor. There'll be a pool.

Okay, so let's see. Based on that, and the Academy is being held on March, we will need to cancel. There is a planning commission meeting scheduled for March 12. So we'll be canceling the planning commission meeting of March

So this is a Wednesday and a Thursday.

Yeah, yeah. So, we'll be canceling that Planning Commission meeting eventually here because everyone will be gone.

Where are the flights out of?

At the academy. Probably Sacramento. I don't know with certainty our staff in the office is doing the booking.

So that's an early morning flight.

I'm not sure. I remember, yeah, her taking a look at it so that way everyone can get there on time for the session. I believe that starts in at noon or 01:00. I think 01:00 if I remember right.

Well our directors are gonna interject. Okay.

I don't have all the flight confirmations yet, but I was working with our EA and I believe it was like an eight or 9AM flight from Sacramento to John Wayne. Because it's in Anaheim. So that's, I mean assuming you don't need a different time. But I believe that was a time frame she was looking at to get us there with plenty of time and you were correct, starts around lunchtime, twelve, 01:00. So ample time.

Do we Uber over to the hotel?

Yeah. And so we can either That's

what we did.

And that's all reimbursable. Yep.

That or we're making arrangements where it's possible we might get a shuttle. We've done that in the past, too. We'll leave that to staff as far as cost to make sure whatever's best.

I'll race you. Thank you. I'm not letting Graves run though, man. He'll be there and nothing flat. I

think that's all I have Okay, or an I look forward to it.

Okay, Commissioner comments. Now's the time, guys. Commissioner, Amen. First.

I had a question for staff. I wanted to know where we are, when we'll be hearing the presentation on the Sorry, I'm really frazzled today. I do know English. About the notification for the distances, like 300 feet, 500 feet, 700 feet, notifying not just the owner of the building but the actual occupants of the building, when will we be able to hear that presentation?

Okay, so we are gathering information of other jurisdictions and we're close. We're using our planners to perform that work and what we are considering and by all means we can take it here just to at least inform you, but we are in the midst of a code up update, right? So a major code update that we want to incorporate this into. But we certainly can provide information on what we've been able to find and get at least some initial thoughts and feedback. So that I expect we probably could have maybe Scott you can come up because I know you've been involved in that to provide a perspective on whether or not we can give an informational

Yeah, far as informational goes, I could get that together next meeting even. Next meeting? Yes, if we don't have to go through a whole giant formal process and just be an informational item, yeah.

Okay, because we're fairly squared away with our research, right?

Yeah. That would be an old business item. What's that? An old business item. I mean, it's been around now for a while.

Are you calling it an unfinished business?

Well, new

business, Unfinished, old okay? Unfinished. Item seven on the agenda next meeting. Have the information. Unfinished business I'm gonna talk about here in a second.

Okay, so that'll be no action though on that. But by all means, yeah, sure. That's perfectly fine. It looks like we're ready. Could provide that for the next meeting. Thanks for bringing that up.

Okay. Commissioner Crowder.

Thank you, Chair. I have a question. And I don't know if this is even humanly possible, but I'd like to see if it is. After hearing our public comments with Ms. Mary Elizabeth, and these are things that I've actually have talked about a few times, but I never knew how to ask or if I can ask.

I would really like to see a presentation on the alcohol and tobacco places that we have in the city of Stockton. I'd also like to know how if it's possible, I'd like to know if we can find out how many citations they've had, if they've been, if they've gotten their backsides in some trouble before. And then also I would like it broke down by district so that I know how many you know it makes me feel a little better if I know that. I don't know why. My brain works that way.

Is that something I can ask for? Is like a map of that and to see how many we have, how many have legitimate licenses, and how many have been cited before? And crimes to domestic?

It's on the level of details that you're asking for. So you're getting a little bit deeper in the details as far as what you're asking for. So as far as us putting

together I'm going add on to her because that was my unfinished business. Oh,

Jeff and I would talk briefly.

Mary Elizabeth has been here at least three times recently talking about the GP twenty eighteen that was adopted in December '20 And my question is, does it truly, without having to go and look it up myself, does it truly say that we're supposed to have that map, the GP?

There isn't I've read it. There is an action in the general plan that does refer to that, which she's citing.

Okay. So, she's correct then Yep. That the GP says we're supposed to have one. So, is there well, I'll just ask it point blank. Is there a reason why we don't have one? Well, I mean Besides time and effort?

That no, it is really a time and effort issue.

DANIEL It'd be a big effort.

DANIEL The general plan, as you know, has multiple policies and multiple actions. If you go in there, you're going to realize there is a lot of implementation. So, it's not that it can't be done.

But there is But, I guess, really, to expand on that, Michael, and that and it's no I'm not intending to criticize anything. Right. But it seems like if it's in there and we're supposed to have it, why haven't we? It's the same as I've been complaining for years about our master plans. We adopted a master plans for storm, water, and sewer way after the general plan was approved.

Yeah. And theoretically and legally, they should have been adopted at the same time as the general plan. And, you know, I mean, you guys really weren't in charge in those years anyway in that. So, if this our 2018 general plan said we're supposed to have something and we don't have it to this day, and we have an activist in our community that keeps reminding us of that. I'm not quite sure why we don't have it given that I've seen the master plans take years to get approved after the fact that our general plan was approved when they theoretically should have been approved at the same time.

Yeah, I can't speak for the utilities write off, but I know that our municipal utilities department

No, I can bring those dates and the council resolutions that are 2022, 2023 when they were approved. I'm sure you can, yeah. In that, so my point is still the same, okay? I mean, we still don't if this is correct, what Mary Elizabeth is saying, I don't think we should be wasting our time, Commissioner Panda wants it in that. But trying to break it into districts and break and get police citations, I mean, after I mean, there's probably a ton of citations at various places in that.

That's really time consuming and the PD would have to be involved in that. But I think if we're supposed to have a map that outlines where these facilities are in that, then we should have had one years ago in that. And maybe Stephanie can shed some light on that. But I mean, Mary's gonna keep coming in that and what we don't need is a lawsuit filed against us through the Sierra Club.

Understood and to build upon what Assistant Director McDowell said and also what you said Chair, there is a little bit of nuance in regards to this map. So it's not, the action is not just saying create this map, it's actually tied to the consideration of options and development of an ordinance to restrict mini markets, gas stations, fast food, check cashing, and tobacco stores in areas with high concentrations. And they say develop the map to help guide the creation of the ordinance. So that's, So this is a multi departmental effort. So we're gonna have to have PD on this.

We're gonna have to have ASD on this, all the licensing. It's significant, it's resource heavy. And to Mike's point, we do, there's multiple programs to implement. This is a pretty heavy one and just resources hadn't been available. So I just want to make it clear, it's not just a map. It's not just us calling GIS and being like, here's the list,

Look at make a business license.

It's not. There's more to it than that. So it's a bigger effort and we just

I understand.

It's not that we don't want to. It's just it has been a resource and capacity thing. But it is on our list of implementation items.

I'm fearful of is again us ending up in a lawsuit for not following through. And then us having to legally spend money to explain what you just explained through a legal process, which costs a lot of money to the citizens of the community, and it will take more resources if it becomes a legal issue.

The city has started making efforts. They're working on their updated tobacco ordinance right now. That could lead to some additional subsequent efforts to kind of meet these Even

that first effort then on this map is if we're already I know

that And we have that mapping for tobacco.

Have a map already that shows the tobacco spots Yes. Which is part of the GP, and that now it's an expansion. Okay? And so, you know, to show good faith that we're trying to comply in that, it's a good faith effort accounts for a lot, especially, I believe, in the legalized, in that to where if we, you know and I know you're trying and you got resources is a big issue. Believe me, I understand that more than you think I do.

And that I have my own resource problems in that. So, you know, I think maybe a starting point is if you already have that map, maybe it ought to be circulated up here so that we know, so that, you know, maybe myself or whoever's chair in the future can explain to Mary that, hey, this is being worked on. We haven't forgotten this. I mean, as a courtesy to a citizen of the community, it's worth saying something that, hey, we're working on it and that we recognize that there's an issue that we that you've brought up and we are currently working on it And that it may not be to everybody's satisfaction, but there's resources that it takes to do it and it's more involved than just having a map based upon how the GP says it, like you quoted in the GP. It's more tied tied to more information needed in that to actually generate something that as a guideline.

Yes, and Ledge Committee on Monday is actually to be considering an amendment to the, tobacco ordinance. So there is gonna be a presentation just with some red lines. Not so much a map, more about, licensing and enforcement. But that is active right now. So that's going to alleged committee on Monday and then we'll, based on their direction, we'll likely go to counsel. So

Well, that's good. We'd like to see the map just so that we can somebody up here can say something to our every meeting comment. And that actually helps relieve you guys of some stress if we say it as a commission to the audience that's asking the question or pointing out these things.

It's already a layer in GIS. So, a map of like tobacco smoke shops is easily available.

Well, let's do that. And that way there we alleviate some of, take some pressure off you. She's coming and presenting it to this commission. Let this commission help take some of the pressure off.

We can send that as correspondence to the commission if you'd like a copy. Yeah, okay. Thank you.

Commissioner Oakes, thank you.

Thank you. Yes, in my 100% of meetings that I've been here, she has complained about that. So, but more importantly, she shouldn't have to complain about it. If it is I am appreciative of resource constraints, particularly for public agencies and entities. But a rule is a rule, and it's there for a reason. So, I'm not asking that everybody comply, but I do believe that it would be appropriate for a presentation about this. Like, so exactly what does it say? What are your limitations? How are you interpreting it? And where are you in this process?

Because as an individual who has had to represent quasi public agencies who have been under court jurisdiction for not doing what they are obligated to do. Judges do not care about your resource allocation. They care about your legal compliance. So, I don't wish to don't wish to beat up on staff in any way, shape, or form, but but if we could just be armed with the information, and it would certainly be an appropriate thing for those members of the public who are concerned about this, and who think we aren't doing what we're supposed to be doing, to hear what the constraints are, what the progress is, because the fact that a piece of legislation about this is happening begs the question about the directive and the general plan from 2018, and you know, that's eight years. So I just would like a presentation at a future date about

I'm good with that. Think it I takes the

don't

pressure

think

it takes off. Would be informative, and it's transparent, and we have nothing to hide. And if people don't like that, well, you know, that's a different battle. But, you know, public, a lot of my experience is in dispute resolution, and my research, and many, many people, the vast majority of people will accept a decision they don't like if they feel they've been informed and it's been a fair process. And so that's all I'm asking for. Through

the chair, just for clarity. So instead of just sending a map, would you then I'm hearing I don't know if we need to take a I don't know how we is there a formal vote required I'll defer to legal. Do we come back with an item instead of just sending you the map? I just if we're gonna have to put together a presentation then I can just focus on that instead. But I think I need to get some sort of direction like, Taryn, I'm

not sure.

I would prefer a presentation. I'm

saying that

to you. Okay, so Commissioner Oaks would like it to be an agendized item as a presentation for informational purposes, okay? And then, and I can support that too, and that, and whether we have to take a vote here or not, that's counsel's directive. I don't think we do, but maybe we do. And that it's just an informational part in that, and we're not going to take any action on it.

But what it does do is it takes some pressure off you guys so you guys don't have to hear this like we because now it's being directed at the commission, okay? And that to nobody's fault. It is what it is, okay? And that and so, if you give a presentation to this commission, this body here, then we have an understanding to where we can make a comment the audience during that public comment period because it's going to happen next time too. It's going to continue to happen.

That's the history. You guys know the history of the person that does this as well as I do, okay? It's part of that way of conducting the business that they conduct. I can't say it any simpler, don't think, in that. And so, I would like to take the pressure off you guys, plus I'd like to know. I mean, it is a GP legislative action in that. And so, and now it's been brought up numerous times. Let's hear it. Make it it doesn't have to be, you know, real detailed in that. It just needs to be, you know, cut like you quoted out of the GP to us in that.

Just explain in that so that we all can comprehend and we look at something that says, okay, here's some progress we've made.

Yeah, maybe

And we'll let us help take the pressure off you guys. Yeah.

One further thing in regards to general plan implementation and it's something in response to what Mr. Oaks, Commissioner Oaks just mentioned. We have an obligation and those that have been serving for at least more than a year, every year we have an obligation to present to City Council by regulation, but we've also presented to Planning Commission first. Is the general plan and housing element implementation and actions. So it's a mandatory report ultimately in state law that we take this before the City Council but we choose do the planning commission as

You're opening up Pandora's box

No it's something now we do every year it's like you've seen this before. Every year That we do the implementation reports.

For five years on this commission.

Yeah.

Okay. And that just different terms and I've seen it. And I understand it and the housing element is a state mandated part that you guys carry through and that's why it goes to council and everything. But I haven't heard anything until Mary Elizabeth about what components missing out of the GP. Right. And so, now Pandora's box is open, And that is there any other items that the general plan needs to be that needs implementation?

I'm going to tell you as far as the general plan, it's public document. Everybody knows where the general plan can be found. We're not hiding anything. I know that. So, what I'm trying to indicate to you is a 2040 general plan.

So, it's implementation over this period of 2040. So, it's not getting approved and then everything has to be done tomorrow. We're supposed to be reporting on progress in regards to implementation of the general plan and the housing element. So that's the intent of why it goes before the elected bodies being City Council and why we do it for Planning Commission because you obviously are important and your feedback, you know, to us that we receive when we present this to you that's important

as I'm giving you right now feedback.

Yeah, so I'm just trying to tell you that that's the process. That's every city and county has I this don't want make

more work for staff. I just want to make sure that we have these comments on a regular basis and them to be expanded because I could probably name 10 that probably need to be expanded.

So, I mean, I think what you're doing right here is you're elevating the priority saying, hey, this is the area that, you know, is of interest and you want us to look into So, it and report on that's great.

It's You know, we can do because we're getting pushed too. Yeah. Okay. Commissioner Oaks had a comment.

Yeah, I want to be clear. I feel like this is a little bit no one's reprimanding anybody here. This is about process, Michael. It is really just about a citizen has raised this issue. They ought to feel heard, and feeling heard means just addressing it.

Now, they may not be satisfied with what but it'll help us do our job as well. And, you know, God forbid, well, and maybe it comes to the point where, you know, in that annual report you can tick off the things that haven't been done yet. I'm just saying is, in the interest of transparency, let's just answer the question, and assure people in the public that you're doing your job, and this is not something you're trying to hide, or any way get around, but there's a timeline and a process, and I'm willing to accept any of that. But if we don't have any of that, then we can have people come here and complain about I mean,

as you know, I know the general plan somewhat. I don't know it by the, like you guys do, but I have some background in general plan for years, okay, and specifically to what I do in that. But this is brought up by a public member and so it's triggered this. Like I said, there's no criticism of anybody.

Know guys I'm not debating it. I'm just trying to Yeah. Indicate the

You know, we're talking about a very short

No, yeah. I understand what everybody's saying here. I totally get it. And you've heard from our director, you know, we understand it. I'm just indicating to you some of the things that, like you were stating, as far as we have an obligation to report this stuff every single year. And so we do our best to do that as far as on progress. So this is one that got elevated, sounds like tonight, that we'll bring forward and present information on it.

Commissioner Graves.

Yeah. I would like to make a motion to end or adjourn the word.

We're gonna hear from another commissioner first.

I actually was going to say Pandora is happy to close Pandora's box and make a I was gonna make the motion but Pandora is happy to second commissioner Graves motion to end.

Was that a formal motion, Commissioner Graves?

Yes, sir. Okay.

That's a motion to adjourn, correct?

Yes. Okay. Motion to adjourn. I said end, excuse me.

I think we're all crystal clear on what our goals are and that and we're all here to help each other, okay? So let's just move in that direction. Cast your votes and we can all go home. We're good guys.

Wants to go home.

You killed me commissioner. I just wanna be You killed me. You're okay. It ain't no fault. Yeah.

I was waiting for you to

I was