Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

The pledge of allegiance, please. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Roll call members, please. Gary Roth, here. Carl Kinsky, here. Jerry Bowman, here. Joe Prince. Tony Grass. Junior Euing here. Kathy Waltz. Justin Donovan here. We have a quorum approval of the agenda. I'll move. Have a motion. Second. All in favor?

I oppose. Motion carry. Approval of a minutes from July 17th, 2025. Motion. Second. They have a motion and a second. All in favor?

Opposed? Motion carries. Citizen input. I take it everybody here is for agenda items. Old business. Whoops. Forgot one. Introduction of evidence. Uh, I have the comprehensive plan, city code. You have the staff reports at your seat. The staff report for SUV 001-26, which is the second bullet point, is slightly different than what you originally received. We just It's a motion to pass a resolution instead of just an approval, but that's the only change to the staff report. Okay, that's all I have. Do I have a motion to accept? Do I have a second? Second.

All in favor? I opposed. Motion carries. Old business. I have none, sir. We'll go into new business. uh to operate a guest lodging establishment at 135 North Thirdrd Street, a single family residential structure. [snorts] I think the owners are in the audience. Yes, sir. Well, you're used to this by now, aren't you? I've done this once or twice. Keep doing it, please.

Right. Right. Um I'm sure you all know who we are. Uh Jason Ashley Stackley. Um the house at 135 North Thr is the little last shotgun house in town. Um after 6 years we've finally finished it, [laughter] put it on the back burner a lot of times. Um so we're requesting to do Airbnb VBO with that property. [snorts] I just have one question. Um are you calling it Angles Hideway or Angel's Highway? Angels. That's probably my fault. Okay. I spelled It wasn't like it wasn't like a deal breaker. It's just you just It's supposed to be angels. It says angles on it. It's just

not supposed to be angels. Okay. Yeah, that was the only stupid question. [laughter] Say it's a pretty straight house. There's not many angles there. And I guess we could do it. Yeah. Anybody questions, comments? Questions? Comments? Questions, comments? None for me. Motion done for me. Got a motion. Second. Second. Roll call, please. Carrie Roth. Yes. Carl Kinsky. Yes. Jerry Bowman. Yes. Junior Ewing. Yes. Justin Dunovan? Yes. Motion carries. 503. I'll put it in the mail to you, sir. Thank you. Thank you guys. Keep going.

We have some addresses we're going to hand to you. I talking. [laughter] Thanks, guys. Jerry would take some time to last. [laughter] All right. Good. Should I read the SUV 0016 demo? I didn't know that.

You don't know. Okay. Uh, next one. McBride McB Mc McBride Land Growth LLC is requesting to subdivide the 49.04 acre parcel located along the northern side of the 500-600 block of Progress Parkway. You know, okay.

Um, McBride came to us a few months ago for reasonzoning. Um, and during that reasoning, they presented a a layout for their subdivision. This is them going through the subdivision process. This is the preliminary plat. Uh this plat is slightly different from what you saw then. I believe that was 157 homes. This is 135 homes. Uh and we have some folks from McBride in the audience if you have questions. You said 135. 137. 37. Yeah. What was that initial number?

I'll start out like that. I think it was originally 173 and then 157. Well, it was 15. It was 154 157 before and then it went to 173 and now we're at the 137. 137. Yeah. So, why why is it going down? Absolutely. Yes, ma'am. It's good to see everybody again. Hello.

I'm Katie Peruka with McBride. I think you all know Jeremy Roth and then we have um our engineer here tonight, Rodney Arnold from Sterling. So, um yes, you'll notice the plan looks a little bit different from the last one um when we presented with our our zoning uh request. Um the reason why it looks a little bit different, there were some sight conditions that as we went through our due diligence process um we encountered. Namely, there are a few mine vents that um have to stay uh that we needed to work around and then there were a few like sinkhole areas that we needed to work around. So we adjusted our layout some. Also, we did listen to your feedback and I know the board of aldermen um had really missed those cults culaacs from the first plan um that we were originally working with. So, we were able to work work some cults back in. And so, in doing all that, yes, we did have to unfortunately lose some lats, but it does make for what we think a really smart uh layout and a good efficient plan. So [snorts]

I I just have another question. As I recall, and my memory is by no means, when you were here initially talking about the zoning, you said that you anticipated, but in no way promised, that you thought that the cheapest price for a house was going to be 200,000, if I recollect correctly. Yes.

And now you've got [snorts] fewer lots. So, one of the one of the ideas behind this development was to have more affordable housing. And I'm just wondering, and I understand there have been other changes in the the economy as well, but does this mean that the cheapest anticipated house, again, understanding that you're talking about a hypothetical, is going to be more than 200? And if so, what are we what are we talking about since we're trying to get a portable app?

Yeah, that's a good question. I'm actually going to throw that me. The goal would still be to have that starting price start in the ones and still Yep. Yep. That should still be achievable. Okay. Even with the reduced uh with this new layout, there's there's less lots, but we're also able to reduce some infrastructure cost. So, Okay. Thank you.

Um you'll also notice there's more common ground obviously now. So, I think it's like about 20 acres um or so of common ground. So um that kind of accounts for the reduction reduction in lots on kind of on that same point. I know in the staff report there's um a suggestion of incorporating right now we have the sidewalks on the one side of the street. So, I I know that there's a um recommendation that sidewalks go on both sides of the street, which um you know, we're certainly willing to do, but kind of wanting to throw that back to you all just in terms of again, that's adding more infrastructure, which you know, obviously that's going to that is going to impact price point of these homes. um keeping in mind that we do already have them on the one side and we've got the trail um you know to promote like the walkability. So we're willing to do it but do want to raise the point that you know anytime we're adding more infrastructure it does the price of the homes are going to be adjusted to some degree.

So that was my recommendation based on you know a board focus of walkability. Um, you know, we've been preparing a lot of sidewalks. We've been adding sidewalks. Uh, part of the focus of this, uh, subdivision is access from, you know, the commercial district out to Progress Parkway and onto um the water park and things of that nature. U, again, they're on one side, so you still have that access, but my recommendation was both sides, but you all can choose to pull that out if you so think.

I'm wondering. Yeah, cuz I get what you're saying and I see people. It's so It's so strange when you walk when you drive down the street into town, the sidewalk stops over here and starts over there, but people don't cross the street. They're walking in danger. It's really strange. What if you did it on the main drag and just on this street so that if someone wanted to walk from the Baptist church or ride their bike and then they could make it up the sidewalk to the community center wouldn't have to have it all the way back here. Their proposed plan has sidewalks on every street. No, I'm talking both sides. Just on the main street. I got you.

So that it makes the main drag more walkable, but just one sidewalk side for the rest of it. I got you. Cuz that's the cut through street. I don't know. What do y'all do? Do you think it would matter? I mean, you look at other areas of St. Genevie where we have no sidewalks and then limited sidewalks. You know, personally, I feel that sidewalks on both sides is is ideal. you know, and again, it just kind of you know, kind of promotes that walkability. Look at other similar subdivisions and

and that will go in as one, right? Cuz Valley Springs, you know, was our last subdivision that was up to the property owner to put in as they built, but you have hit and miss there until the subdivision's full. This would be part of the initial project. Correct. No, we we would build those as we build the homes, but we as far as grading. Yeah. Every intention in the world of building all 135 houses. So, yeah, they will get finished. But if you put them in with when you pour the streets, you put them in with the rest of the infrastructure, they just get torn off the driveway. Yeah. Engra to them. Yeah.

But that would still mean that they would get it done. you wouldn't have to wait for the owner to do it, which I think was your point, right? What's that? Your point though is that the owners didn't always want to do it and they're saying that when the house is built, they'll put it in. So, no, it it was required out there that that had to go in. But you have, you know, if you got three lots in a row that don't get built on right away, then you got sidewalk, open space, sidewalk. Yeah. On both sides. Mhm. How how will you decide where you're going to build that first? Do you build them all in a row? So, you do do the sidewalks as they go or are you just going to build the whole subdivision?

No, not necessarily. We will probably um I don't think we'll open up the whole community for sales initially. I mean, I think we and we we haven't made these decisions. We'll strategically maybe open up a third of it. I mean, we want to have a variety of lots uh so the options are there for the buyers. Um, right. But, um, yeah, we we'd probably do it in in maybe two or three sections. And as you do that, you'll put sidewalks in, then it'll stop. Yeah. As you

expand within each within each little phase. Um, you know, it's it' be the buyer's choice on which lap they're selecting. So, we wouldn't go necessarily right. Well, would Bosler Drive all open up at one time? Um, yes, the streets will be open. The streets will be open, but we just might not have as far as selling the lots to try to f, you know, to fill that main drag up where you get the sidewalk through there right away. Yeah, we haven't we haven't decided yet which which areas we will cuz that would have a little bit of each to it.

I mean, sitting here looking at it. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense because it has it has all the variety. Plus, it would get that sidewalk through there quicker. Yeah. And do you kind [snorts] of base those decisions around how you're building in what area based on what selling um or where the demand is at?

Ye. Yes. I mean, if it's it's just better for from a selling standpoint and marketability if a buyer walks in and they don't have 137 choices. if they're focused on, you know, if it's if it's Basler, that's, you know, however many lots it is, let's 70 lots. And um it also it it looks and creates more activity and um maybe a sense of um um you know, demand. If people think, hey, if I I really want to live on Bard Drive and there's only 10 opportunities left, I better buy a house. Plus, it looks better with more of them right together than scattered as far as numbers of

taken. Right. [snorts] So, going back to this the sidewalk issue, do do any of the other subdivisions in town like I don't know I can't think in my mind whether St. huge has sidewalks on one side, both sides, no sides. They don't have any They don't have any sidewalks at all.

No. And Roger Edition and International, which both predate our current code, are hit and miss, but there are sidewalks there. But it, like someone said here tonight, there could be sidewalk for two lots, no sidewalk for three lots. Uh, Valley Spring is certainly the most consistent. Okay. Both sides. Valley Springs, both sides. The only places that are missing are the lots that still haven't been built, which may be down to four or five at this point. And then there is there's a green space between the sidewalk and the street. [snorts]

Yes, that's on the plan. So, right here, I know it's tiny, but you can see you have a street green space. Okay, the two different ones are this would be a 30ft uh pavement and a 26 ft pavement. But yeah, there is a green space. I'm sorry if I'm jumping in.

[snorts] [clears throat] If I can scroll this for anybody who wants to see something different. That's busy, but there's a lot of information there. Yeah.

Are there going to be any of the mine vents within close proximity of the homes? So, we have um we're actually in the process of uh pending an agreement with Mississippi Lime, but um there's a 100 foot no build zone that's required by code, so there definitely won't be any. I mean, we can't. So, yeah. I my concern was those things aren't as loud as what they used to be, but they used to be like a jet engine. Those will sound like jet engines. So, I kind of wonder.

We actually had got the opportunity. We took a little field trip and got to go tour the mines and they took us to kind of a modified mine vent that has like the block building and the silencer. So, we got kind of a a sense, but yeah, I think the two that they're not capping here and down here, not sure. No, second second one I think is correct. The the first one is um behind my lot 127 is one of them.

So on the left hand Yep. Right there. So this one won't be capped and this one won't be correct. The others they're on here but they say capped. Correct. So what was that sound like with within that 100 ft? Was it pretty? Was kind of like uh noise or something like that. Like a vacuum cleaner, not a jet engine. [laughter] Kind of like white noise. Just like a constant sort of hum. Yeah.

We don't have any concerns of of selling next to those. Gotcha. So, is our approval addressing sidewalks as an issue or I mean it sounds like I don't want to jump the gun, but it sounds like we're kind of agreed on the reduced number of lots. Is sidewalk something that we need to decide this evening or I think they would appreciate it because their next step is a final plan. Okay. So you certainly don't have to go with my recommendation, but yeah, if we want that, then we should let them know tonight.

Yeah, I think it, you know, when we look back and you guys were pro passing the proposition, the big thing was creating a walkable community and I, you know, and you do achieve that with a single sidewalk, but really a dual sidewalk is kind of the standard that, you know, I think we kind of wanted to [clears throat] set forth and, you know, I' personally I'd like to see it stick with that. So, so we make a motion. Are we ready to begin? So, I move that we ask for sidewalks on both sides of the street or the McBride development. Would you mind reading the motion that's Yes. Thank you.

Okay. So I move that we approve uh resolution PZ00001-26 progress point subdivision preliminary plat with the following conditions. Do I have to read all the conditions? No. With the conditions listed? With the conditions listed. Okay. Thank you. Uh, I'll second. Motion and a second. Roll call, please. Gary Roth, yes. Carl Kinsky, yes. Jerry Bowman, yes. Junior Ewing, yes. Justin Donovan,

yes. Motion carries. 503. Thank you. Thank you. I will send you for the That's included. I'll send you a copy of the resolution. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you.

Yes. What's that? Consider what it looked like.

Which one was that? Down on what is that? Third Street. Darren's house. [laughter] Yeah, I know. the shotgun house.

But operations from here for permitting [clears throat] as so have like detailed [clears throat] construction improvement plans ready mid Decemberish. Um, is it so before we get a permit to break ground, does the final plat have to be approved before you can do an infrastructure permit? That's what you're talking about, right? Yes. Yeah, we can do that. And and that's just a staff approval through those improvement plans or does that infrastructure permit require P&Z or board approval? The infrastructure doesn't. I believe it's on here, but I will send it to our engineer obviously.

Yeah. So there it'll be a a process but I you can do that ahead of the final plat. Okay. Yeah. Does that make sense? When does the storm water? [clears throat] So the final plat which will come back to you all will have storm water details. Um I'm trying to think about water sewer details. I mean this stuff is on the preliminary but details. Um trying to think uh I know the storm water is your biggest interest. Um that should include the uh agreement for either an HOA, the easements and covenants that would come with.

So we would have probably two two different documents. A set of detailed construction plans with all that storm water, sewer, water information and then what we often call a record plat that has the easements that subdivide the lads that be a separate document. So we would bring those. Yes. for the final plat approval and that will all come back to you all. Um but there could be infrastructure improvements before all that. Yes. And when does the decision to have an HOA or not? So that decision is up to them. But that's we'll make that there will be an HOA. Okay. Yes.

It seems like a good idea to have everything taken care of and not not have to worry about it. Yeah. Yes. And that'll cut that will also be what comes to you in the final uh final plat final approval. Any other questions? I don't think so. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

One other thing to bring up in new business um kind of maybe more for discussion. Um, we've seen some municipalities take some steps to um, safeguard, I don't know that's the right term to use against data centers that have come in. Um, Jefferson County recently changed some of their planning zoning regulations,

you know, and I know St. Charles County and some of those. I think that's something that would be worthwhile for us to explore. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing in terms of the data centers for St. Genevie. Um kind of seen some of the headlines that state that those are extremely taxing on infrastructure minimal benefit not we should be able to look at it and say we're going to allow it. We're not going to allow

I can certainly, you know, bring some data back, no, no pun intended, some data back to you and just talk about if we'd like to, you know, we can certainly adopt, you know, or amend our ordinance to put those in a special use category or just, you know, uh, not have them, you know, I'd like I mean, I'd like to know what areas right now if we kept with the status quo, they could put in and also if you could get the actual language of the Jefferson County ordinance just so we could see it as a prototype and decide if it was

good or if we didn't understand what they were getting. I would think at this point if one came it would it would be allowed in an industrial but you're asking kind of well where is that right and I mean it doesn't it doesn't sound like an industry to me not like a conventional industry like they're building something I'll get that information get it back to you and when we meet next I I'll have it for you that'd be great okay

another issue I'd like us to address with that is um from what I'm reading They come in and use so much energy, but they're not paying for the infrastructure of the energy, whoever is making energy is charging the residents to build the AI facilities capacity. And so energy prices in Virginia and Texas and other places are just going through the roof for people who live there. That could be a question for citizens. Um,

but I mean you could say we could say, you know, possibly that if anyone came in and we don't have a county, we really need a county zoning. That's just me. Um, to basically say if you're allowed to come here, you pay for the infrastructure, you build the new energy system that supplies you, not the community. I mean, that's a win-win. Mhm. Okay. But they're also polluting. So yeah, there are issues and as you said, I haven't read many benefits except for the folks who own

Yeah. I mean, you know, what I'm seeing some up north is they're occupying some otherwise unused spaces. That's not a bad thing. But again, if they do so at at at a point where they're starting to, you know, be a detriment to, you know, the citizens and the businesses already in the county, then it's a, you know, then that's I think where we go for some protection. Y think ahead. Thank you for bringing that up. Y one more while we're at it. Yes, sir.

Do we ever address container homes? I mean, there's nothing in our code that addresses container homes. I I haven't been asked. Uh I don't think that would fit within our code. Can you have a container? Yes. For storage, but um are you know, you'd have to get a building permit. And I don't think that's in the IBC right now. I didn't know. I've seen some. Mhm. But the ones I've seen are out in Yeah. God's country.

One more thing then. Um, maybe this is because I live in on Main Street and I'm really happy that the Autobon and all those folks are are making money, bringing people in. It's good for everybody. But what I was wondering if we could put in I think actually St. Mary has this a um decel rating so that whatever event we're having at a certain decel level someone comes in and says here's the meter. It's not hard to have one and you've got to cut your bass. You've got to do this because you're it's interrupting life in the community. I don't know if you've ever been in your house and had the bass kind bead through you like a heartbeat hour after hour and you're going, "Oh god, where am I going to go?" Um, that's only happened a couple of times, but it just seems like maybe we could be with more events coming in, which is a good thing.

I think the only thing we are or we is in terms of time frame, we have a noise nuisance that's defined, but there's not a decel level in the definition, right? And we've got till 10:00 a.m., which is okay. on the weekend. I can leave it at that. Yeah, I think it's 10:00 p.m. They don't always observe that, but they're close. But it's just can you be in your house while they're there is the issue.

I can come up with more. [laughter] I'll make motion tojourn. We got a motion. Second. Second. All in favor? I opposed. Motion carries.