Town Council - Regular Meeting

Um, John,

let's pray. Our heavenly father, we thank you so much for this opportunity to serve. We're just humbled that we were chosen to serve in these roles. Um, you ask that we we ask that you give us wisdom and uh as we make important decisions for the community. We also want to lift up our servicemen and women serving overseas that you would protect them, bring them home safely soon, Lord. And also we pray for the family, friends, and colleagues of uh former council member Gary Sides who also served in the Union County School Board and the Union County Commissioners as uh as he's gone home to be with you. Just ask for comfort for those that loved him. Lord, ask that you just help the meeting tonight go smoothly and just help us to serve well in Christ's name. Amen.

Amen. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, we'll call this meeting to order. We start off with public comments. I'd like to have our town attorney, land use attorney Mccarly, come up and speak briefly.

Mayor, it's come to my attention that some of the folks who signed up to speak at public comment this evening may want to speak about the CZ application for Stevens Village. That's not acceptable. Uh that would be out of order. We've already had an advertised public hearing. Everybody who signed up had an opportunity to speak. The public hearing has now been closed. The matter is now in the hands of the council, but the public hearing part of that process is over. So comments about the that CZ are out of order. The only thing that would be in order is if the council has questions of anyone, you may ask, but the matter is now in the council's hands, not in the public's hands.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Yes, that that CZ will pick up where we left off, which is council deliberations and a vote. So, we have a number of folks who are here for other comments. Joyce Rupert, I'm sorry, what? Bingo.

My name is Joyce Rupert. I live at 3026 FIA Place, Matthew Stallings. I am here concerning the paving by Suriri paving out of Virginia which I will never understand. We can't we can never get somebody local to do a job. They have left a mess. I mean a mess. It's all coming up. It's like pebbles in front of my driveway. It's not a slap flat coat. And the other day the man was there. I was in my front yard and I went down to question him and they were putting little patches of tape by people's front of people's driveways and I said to him, "Are you going to correct this paving job?" And he said, "It's fine." I says, "No, it's not." I said, "This is unacceptable." And then he tried telling me it was because of my driveway. I'm in the culde-sac here. If you drive straight into my driveway, my two trucks were parked in my driveway. We did have nothing to do with that paving. The man, Jordan, who was the supervisor, I called him on the phone. They gave us a paper. He was arrogant and nasty and he knows what he's doing. But I really think every one of you on this council should come down and see what you're paying for. The cold sacks are disgusting. It's all coming up. They finished the job on the 20 was it the 27th of March. I don't even know. I don't even know. I I thought I mailed pictures to Kevin, but I had company coming in. So, I can't swear in God that I sent Kevin pictures of everything because I'm not good with this. But, I know Kevin Parker is the engineer or somebody that's in charge of the paving. I didn't hear from him, but I don't know if I really sent him an email with the pictures, so we can't

blame him. But I really think somebody better come down there and look. And I hope you didn't pay those people. But why didn't we use local? I know we go for the lowest bid, then you got the middle, and then you got the highest. You go local. Those people from Virginia did not belong in my culde-sac in my neighborhood. I didn't like that. and they did a terrible job. Any questions? Thank you. Thank you. Next up, Russ Nyberg. Borg. Hope I pronounced that right.

Russell Nyborg. Come on up, Russell.

Good evening, Mayor. Council members, appreciate the time to speak. I would like to comment on the mixed use where they're proposing a motel hotel. Apparently, the mixed use allows for hotel motel to be built. We're talking on Wetstone, which I know is a stalling road. That's what I'd like to address. my property backs onto the woods which would be depleted for a hotel. I part of me understands why mixed use allows hotel motel, but in a residential area it doesn't make sense. I mean, there's a house on the corner. It's a one-way street that dead ends into woods by a daycare. And I really wouldn't appreciate having a hotel motel in my backyard and I don't think any of you would either. I think it will affect the property values. So my concern is we uh raised to the builder before that we would support in in trying to to work with them. We would support town homes because it's a residential area, but an apartment building doesn't cut it in that area because it's all homes. So, my concern is my property value, my privacy. And again, I don't think you would want a hotel. I don't know how many stories is allowed and I know this isn't a back

and forth. I'm just saying. So regardless, I'm sure it's three, fourtory hotel looking into my backyard. So I have great concern about that. So I thank you for your time and I appreciate you hearing me out. So if there's anything that you can do being that it's a mixeduse or ordinance that allows hotel motel to really consider Okay, I understand. So the mixed use so if it was on independence because it's not residential. So that's all I'm asking is if there's some way for y'all to look at that and think about it, I'd appreciate it. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you,

Kelly Rusk. Good evening, mayor, members of the council. Thank you for your time and service to our community. My name is Kelly Rusk. I reside in Chestnut Oaks, a longtime resident. I'm also a proud supporter of Deliver Fund, an organization comprised of former personnel the intelligence community I've worked with who have dedicated life to fighting human trafficking. Motel, particularly transitional properties, carry a ninefold, I repeat, a ninefold rate of crime. The two most common crime types are drugs and human trafficking. The location of this proposed motel is right near a daycare and across from residential area full of children. To allow this to pass would be morally incorrupt, harmful, shortsighted, and an immediate impact to the safety and welfare of our children. So I come to you tonight to consider will you stand with the children in our community and consider reszoning or blocking a motel which would bring inherent risks both to our community and our police officers who work diligently night and day to protect us. Please, you may devalue our properties. Do not devalue our children. Thank you. Thank you. Brandon Faulner. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, members of the council, um, as you can probably tell by the standing room only crowd, you have a passionate group of people desiring to maintain the quaintness of their village. Um, I'm going to echo the safety part that

he talked about. Um, like Rusty, property backs up right next to where the proposed hotel motel would be. Um I can't imagine the strain on the resources that are already I mean our police and fire do a fantastic job but uh to add that extra strain on them um I I just don't see that happening without um increases in taxes for infrastructure uh which I know doesn't exist there. Um the traffic I can I mean it's already a racetrack on Potter Road. Um the the the noise. I mean you're talking about people that are transient that have no um no skin in the game when it comes to maintaining a property. They're in and out and gone. Um and so again I would I would hope that you would uh uh cons consider again the quaintness of this village. I mean like I said obviously I mean this is the second most attended meeting I've ever been to and you all know the first one. So um I thank you. I mean you you've got a lot of voters and a lot of taxpayers here. um that I hope you will listen to. Thank you for your time.

That concludes the list of folks who signed up to speak tonight. General comments or back to the usual, Joe? General comments. General it is then. So, just a reminder of something you said, Mayor Schaw, for all future decisions, you don't have to say yes to everything. That's all future. You're alluding to what's already a closed I'm saying all future decisions. And I also want to remind of what the town's economic development plan states

for all future decisions. 86% you're upside down and you want to strive for commercial for all future decisions. That concludes all of our signed up speakers for tonight. So, we're looking for a consent agenda. Sorry, mayor. One more brief comment. Jeannie, I'm sorry. I know what you're going to speak about and we've told we cannot do that tonight. No, I just want to ask you to change the table of mixed use. That's all in general. Just make some things conditional. Can you That's all. Bring that to our attention tomorrow. Okay. I mean I Thank you.

consent agenda. How does the council? Mayor move approval of the consent agenda as written. Second. All in favor? I

passes reports uh reports uh from me first. Um as you all know I'm the chair of the Central Regional Council of Governments. And one of the hot button items that is affecting all of the this region and actually across the state is uh what the state is looking at doing is making a constitutional amendment or putting it on the ballot for a constitutional amendment to cap or eliminate property taxes. And without knowing how that affects every single town because every single town and municipality, we only have one avenue of uh well two, but that's the biggest avenue of of revenue to make the services work for our town. Our police, our everything we do here revolves around property taxes. So, the council has addressed an a letter to all of our um house representatives who are on the the planning committee of um the property tax committees. They have a vote on Wednesday. So, we sent that out today. Just make sure you're aware of it. It is a hot button item and if you're not aware of it, I can forward you the the data and the information that you can get yourselves up to speed. And that concludes from the mayor. Start with uh council members. Um Steve,

I don't have anything tonight, sir. Graham. Yes, sir.

Uh for those not aware, we've started our budgeting process, which we do every year. And uh as part of that, we look at some big uh capital expenditure items. Um, two of those which I've had the privilege to visit with some of our staff members, uh, our parks and recreation director, Ununice Donnelly, um, showed me through, uh, two weeks ago, last week, the the splash pad out, uh, in the park across the street, um, that there's some, uh, upgrades that, uh, uh, need to be done to that. So, I want to thank Ununice for for showing me that cuz I understand how much of an asset that park is, that splash pad is, uh, especially in the warmer months. uh and today visited over uh just across uh the street at the police department with our chief Dennis Franks. Um that building is 20 plus years old. So looking at some of their facilities and uh ways we can upgrade their locker room to make sure that when our police officers come into work that um they've got a facility to be proud of as well. So just want to thank the chief for his time and walking me through there. As as we continue to grow as a town um you know we we passed 50 years last year but we're still in our relatively adolescent phase. Um, so we continue to grow, whether it's with personnel and, uh, and eventually likely facilities. Uh, so, uh, it's always good to have a full scope of that as we make those, uh, decisions on your behalf. So, want to thank our staff for for their involvement and keeping us, uh, up to speed on on the the big decisions that we're going to be making for this year's budget and for future budgets.

Thank you, John. Nothing tonight, Mayor. Nothing for me, Mayor Lori. Nothing.

Town manager. Yeah, good evening everyone. The only uh report I have tonight is the budget line item transfers report. Submitting it for your consideration. Thank you. Any town departments? No town departments. All right. Thank you very much. Um moving on to agenda approval. I have one addition that needs to be added added at um 5A would be approval of a settlement in 25 CV 2956-890. That's case number Town versus Nine Ventures LLC. Mayor, I'll make a motion to approve the agenda with the addition of item 5A, settlement 25cb 2936. I think it was 890, but I'm not sure.

Yeah, I got it. Thank you. You are good memory there. Um, second. Second. All in favor? I I passes. Next up, opening the Stevens Village Conditional Zoning Council vote back to where we left off um two weeks, three a month ago.

Um we were in the process of a discussion and carry on with discussion, new items, old items. Let's make sure we hear from everyone tonight. Stephen, you want to start off or finish? Well, I think there's been some slight changes. Can we have that kind of presented tonight as to Good idea. Yeah, he's ready. Well, since since he's going to get that million dollar raise from earlier. You go, Max.

All right. Give me one second. All right. Hello, council. Um, so just want to uh let you know this is CZ250801. We heard this item for public hearing back in March 9th and the council chose to defer it uh so the applicant could respond to concerns that were raised or sorry so the applicant could respond to concerns that were raised by the public and town council. Um they've spent the last month uh working with staff to tighten and uh the proposal and add more specific enforceable actions and conditions. And what I'm going to do tonight is walk you through those. Um, and I'm going to go through the memo so that we can walk through this together. Um, but before I get to the revisions, I just want to go a little bit about the project overview. So, this is a conditional zoning for CZ mixeduse 2. Conditional zoning mixeduse 2 at the intersection of Stevens Mill and Idle Wildald Road. This project incorporates up to 118 attached town home units, not apartments, only town homes. adjacent and that is adjacent to Shannamara. Those uses also gonna have commercial as part of that at the intersection of Stevens Mill and ID Wild. And they're also requesting a possibility to add a gas station and drive-through restaurant. So, um, starting with I just want to kind of skip the timeline. I think we know what the timeline we've been talking about this over a year, but I did want to go over the post-hering revisions. So, over the last month, we've incorporated and

talked to uh the developer a lot about getting these additions into the conditional zoning. And these revisions are reflected the updated memo from Robinson Bradshaw that was included in the agenda packet. Um, so starting off with limited gasoline pumps, the developer did agree to limit uh the gasoline pumps to eight multi-product dispensers. So, I guess it would be two or so 16. So, two eight double-sided gas pumps. They've also agreed to town homes throughout the site to be a maximum of 35 ft. Um, not just the ones adjacent to Shannamara and that's about two stories of two and a half stories. 35 ft is um they've also agreed to town home architectural standards that are uh in the Stinson Farms development agreement. This is the same developer. Um so they've agreed to um these are all in the Robinson Bradshaw memorandum the architectural requirements but just want to read them out loud. So for example, Stinson Farms development agreement states that each house shall be uh town home shall be alley loaded. The primary exterior building walls um shall be a combination of stone, brick or cementitious siding with shaker board and batten accents. Uh vinyl may not be used as exterior building materials only accent. Uh dimensional shingles shall you be utilized on the roof. Each attached dwelling unit shall have a covered front porch located on the front or side of the dwelling. The minimum floor to ceiling height of the first floor shall be 9 ft. The front facade um shall be articulated through the use of gables and offsets and they'll have a twoft um elevation of crawl space on each of the town homes. So, I just wanted to make sure that uh architectural elements were touched on a lot at the last meeting. I wanted to make sure you were aware. The developer also agreed to an undisturbed portion of the buffer. So, the exterior 30 ft of

the 55wood landscape buffer shall be undisturbed. Um, but for example, if let's say some trees died or they had to remove trees, they would go back in and replace it with a type A uh bring it back up to type A standards. They've also incorporated enhanced landscaping um along the dry storm water ponds. They've also agreed to that development area A, which are the town homes, shall not be cleared or graded until Union County has approved a sketch plan or um uh third party agreement has been reached about sewer capacity. They've also agreed to burm within development A, so just adjacent to the gas station and drive-through proposal. That would also include the landscaping and the 12oot sidewalk, too. In addition to um they've incorporated a 10-ft sidewalk along the entire length of their portion on Stevens Mill Road, which incorporates the commercial site that's not part of the conditional zoning. The approved site plan for the commercial shows a 5-ft sidewalk. They've agreed to a 10-ft sidewalk along that entire border as part of this conditional zoning. Um they've also agreed to reduce the maximum amount of drive-through windows. Originally, the proposal had up to four. They now have up to two drive-through windows. And then for the oak trees, the large oak trees at the um one of their entrances on the uh commercial site that's not part of the conditional zoning, they've agreed to stay um to uh preserve at least one out of the three and they're going to try to preserve them all, but that's going to be subject to final site design um and development review. So, just wanted to go over all the conditions that were agreed to. If they are not listed in here, the developer has not agreed to them and you can bring them up tonight if you want. But, um, the consistency with the adopted plans.

So, conditional, this conditional zoning has a mixture of residential and commercial uses and that is compatible with our walkable activity feature lane use. walkable activity feature and lane use um has a mi supports a mixture of like I said commercial and residential uses um with a connected pedestrian friendly walkable activity goal. These are town homes are walkable to these commercial units. Um additionally it's within the it's very close to the density walkable activity center requests 10 to 30 units per acre for town homes. This is showing 9.56. So it's right there at the minimal density that walkable activity center is requesting. Um they're also leveraging a improved transportation network with Armistad Grove all adjacent to ID road. So um that is also compliant with walkable activity center. Um the small area plan um show shows small 900 foot buffer setback excuse me with single family homes. This is more consistent with that proposal than just straight commercial through the buy right of mixed use 2. They're showing town homes with a 90ft setback. That is more consistent this than straight commercial which is on the as by right and the mixed use 2 zoning. Um it also supports the greenway master plan they're showing.

Can I ask you a quick question on that? What is the buffer between the currently in progress commercial and the Shanomar in that neighborhood currently? So the approved concept plan for the commercial site has a buffer width of 50 ft, but some portions are 30 feet and it has a 70ft setback. What they're showing as part of the conditional zoning with the town homes for tonight is a 50 foot setback or 50 foot buffer with a 90 foot setback. Okay. So approximately 50 50 feet more.

Yeah. What's required is at the time of their submittal for the commercial site is 30 foot setback. We've then increased it to 40 ft, but they're showing 70 ft on the approved concept plan. Okay. And then they're showing 90 feet as part of the conditional zoning. So there's a lot of numbers floating. So I can repeat that if you'd like. Just give me the distance altogether. uh for the approved this one versus the other one. Yeah. Okay. So 70 setback is the approved concept plan. This is showing 90 foot setback and they're both have around 50 foot buffers. There are portions that are 30 ft in the approved one though. Okay. So approximately 20 to 40t difference. Okay. Yeah.

All right. That's what I want to know. Okay.

Um this um proposal also supports a greenway master plan. and it's showing greenway along the front edge of ID Wild and they're also enhancing the sidewalk along Stevens Mill. Um everywhere else within the development is going to be 6 ft width. Um the approved concept plan shows for the by commercial shows 5T sidewalk along this road. Um so based on all of the adopted plans staff recommends approval. It provides a step down transition between the single family residential shamara and the uh intense commercial by uh by right of mixuse 2 with a step down transition between single family and town homes then commercial. It enhances the buffering adjacent to the existing neighborhoods through enhanced landscaping. It reduces the byite commercial intensity so incorporating the town homes. It aligns with our walkable activity center future land use. It's more consistent with our small area plan for Ottawa Road and it does support our 2030 economic development plan tax base. Um, additionally, it secures enforceable commitments that the developer has committed to, so you know what's going there. Um, and they incorporate many of the concerns that were raised in the last month and at the March 9th meeting. Um, happy to walk through any of the changes if you'd like. Do do you happen to have an easily accessible not what's currently approved?

I have a print out right here. So I have an approved site plan for this is what's currently approved in concept plan. Okay. Um that's not part of the packet but you've seen that before. Any Graham? Yeah. So uh you mentioned small area plan. What about the comprehensive land use plan? Yeah, the the walkable activity center. So it's consistent with that with both plans.

It is consistent with the comprehensive lings plan because it's showing a mixture of uses. So town homes and residential. The small area plan shows single family homes and a 100 foot setback. But that is more consistent than the byite commercial only with this conditional zoning because it's showing the town homes and the 90 foot setback.

And then uh you mentioned they've agreed to a number of the requests that were made. Did they agree to all the requests? Um probably you I would say uh they probably talked to everybody over the last month and they have not agreed to all the requests. For example, I know Lor's really um um really loves those oak trees out front of the development and she wants a minimum of two preserved. They've committed to only one and I think if you want to address them, you can address them after.

Yeah. John would like to speak agreed. We told our just now that we would agree to two. Okay. Do you want him to come up next? Thank you, John. Do you want to come up and speak more or or later? Well, just if there's a question, but I just want to make that point. Thank you. That's that's You have any questions for me? Yeah. Okay. I'll I'll let them come up. Put it on the map. Any more, Graham? I mean, you don't have to, but Oh, I'm thinking and can come back to you. Someone else. Mike, while he's thinking is the developer going to present? Not necessarily. All right. He's already done his stuff. We're If we have a question, they're here.

I do. For whomever would like to speak from the developer, but not from the audience.

Mr. Williams? Yes, sir. One of the things that I have wanted to see in this project, uh, knowing that you're also developing Stinson Farms just north of it toward 485 is a restriction on 24-hour businesses, which to my understanding you have not chosen to do on this project so far. Is that correct? That's correct. Why? Um, just because until we determine what tenants are going to lease the spaces, we we can't make that commitment yet. So, the the intent is you sell this parcel to someone who will occupy that space. We we would typically ground lease it to someone who would then build their build their facilities on the space. Do you think it's a fair request to have it be limited to less than 24 hours?

Um not not all the way out on Ottawa Road. Um if we were bringing commercial further into the site up behind the the already approved plan, I I could completely understand that and be much closer to the residential. But on Idaw Wild Road, a what will become a four-lane corridor down through there, we we have to keep that option open. We we did give it lots of consideration.

You don't have to keep it open. You could choose not to do that. I think that would be part of being a good neighbor would be agreeing to limiting that to less than 24 hours because let's say I'm driving from Hembi Bridge from Indian Trail. I'm using Auto Wild Road from Stallings to go up toward 485 and I'm driving at 2 a.m. Well, if I think, "Oh, shoot. I need something." I'm going to stop at the gas station right before the highway, not the one that's down on the intersection. So, I think I think that's a more than fair request for you able to be able to do that because it it feels like it's saying, "Well, the profitability is more important than the people here in this situation." We've done as much as we can with with buffering the existing neighborhood by by putting the the residential in there and getting the the more intense uses away from the neighborhood and it's it's just um you know we we just can't make those commit. We've made a ton of commitments and we're willing to make those that that we can work within the plan but that's that's not one we can at this point.

All right. Well, thank you. Anything, John?

Yes, this might be for Max. Um, on the line item where it says it supports the goals of the 2030 economic development plan by promoting a more balanced tax base. Would it be fair to say that the existing zoning more supports the 2030 economic like does a better job of balancing the tax base? Um, I think it would be fair, but when I look at the site by itself, it does have a 55% commercial rate and a 45% residential rate. So it's not reducing the overall score for 8020 overall for the whole town. But comparing it apples, you know,

if you want to look at the two options that we're facing tonight, it does not move the needle more in the direction of a balanced tax base than the existing zoning does.

You could definitely consider that. Yes, Brad. I'll I'll tell council in the community where I am on this and this has been a puzzling one. Um what's what's been puzzling I think we talked about this at last meeting is that is that the community many of the community I've had a couple of denters have been in favor of an existing property development plan that allows grocery store retail within um a smaller setback right against your homes. That's puzzling. And I know last time there was some head shaking in the room of that's not what we mean. And I've tried to understand what's behind that. And it feels to me that the angst is about the corner parcel. Not all of it, but some angst about the corner parcel. That being the gas station fast food. But I still think it's a mistake to put a large commercial development 50 or so feet from a single family home. I live in a community, by the way, on the other end of towns. I'm anxious for our representatives who live in the area to speak, but but I'll tell you where I am. I live in a community that that uh has a commercial development right beside our single family home development. Here's what we deal with. We deal with a dumpster pickup at 6 am some mornings that the police come and respond to. Um threats of fines with the property owner, which is a restaurant. Uh we deal with noise from outdoor dining, music on holidays, 10:00, 11:00 at night.

So, what concerns me about a large commercial development up against established single family homes worth upwards of 7 8 n a million dollars. I think that's a mistake. the other. So that's one issue that I'm I'm been thinking a lot about and many won't agree with me about that, but I still think I believe that because a step down, you heard that use by our planning director. A step down use simply means a buffering use of a quieter nature between an established single family home and a residential area, excuse me, a commercial area. That's one issue. I've got two. The second one is this. Um, no more talk in the last 3 weeks about redoing the traffic impact analysis, TIA. No more talk of that by the way. And I think the reason may be um even though traffic seems to be a a big big issue here. It may be that that we understand now that if we redo a traffic analysis, it might require the developer to do less infrastructure work than they are proposing. So those who don't understand traffic impact analyses would would say that um that might not be true. Mr. Richardson, those who see traffic impact analyses would understand that ratios are given to commercial development and ratios are assigned to residential development by nature and category. single family town home, apartment complexes, even apartment complexes that are stacked and apartment buildings that are level. It's

pretty detailed. You also get traffic impact ratios assigned to commercial properties, gas stations being a single use and grocery stores being another one. But but what's also puzzling to me is that an entirely commercial development which is proposed and could probably likely have to be on the parcel um behind that is not yet um developed by by formula and by intuition if you think about it generates more traffic than a residential use. It might be counterintuitive to some of you, but but in our community, that's what we've experienced. And we've developed an apartment complex uh under strange pro or or strong protest about eight years ago before I was on the council. Another development that's commercial and another one that's residential. The ratios generally, not always, but generally work. So, let me sum up where I am. Um, and I'm only one vote of six. Those two issues alone are the two that drive my interest in doing what's not best necessarily for a particular node but for the town. Um buffering a large commercial use that is anchored likely by a grocery store is paramount to me. a wooded 50-foot backyard to those adjacent property owners, then the fence, then the commercial, I mean, excuse me, then the town homes. 50 feet of buffered trees added to the the visual backyard of those homes. They don't own it. They can't develop it. They can't even change them. But there's 50 ft of

trees undisturbed before the fence, then a town home use, and then what I would consider busy commercial, and then more traffic improvements coming to an already robust traffic plan coming for your whole area because of the development that's coming. I I think that the town home development traffic will be I'm I'm I'm convinced the town home development traffic will be less than you'll get with a fully built out commercial space. So when it comes to vote tonight, I'm only one of six. I'll be voting in support of this particular conditional zoning because I think it's better for you with traffic and buffering those homes along um the the edge. That's just one man's opinion. Mayor,

appreciate that, Brad. Thank you. I second some of that, especially the the buffering the Shannon. I live in Shannon. Sorry, Lori, it's your turn, but I'll go briefly. I'll go briefly. The idea of having a commercial project out your back door just baffles me. Confuses Brad as well. And Brad lives down at the other end, and I know where he lives. like you don't really want to open the door on where that development is, but the the fact is they have a music out outdoor music all the time even though it's regulated and and um sound sound um we have sound um regulations. Thank you. Uh they try to keep it low, but it still carries Brad's area there. I I know other folks that live in that neighborhood and the idea of having that short of a buffer with that kind of a back backdrop is baffling. Baffling. But um I'll let Lori finish up.

Okay. Um, I have a lot of uh concerns and I'd say a most of it is about um inconsistencies with with itself. You know, we have all these um notes on our on the project and um and sometimes the notes say something different in a different place. Um, I'm talking about the burm uh 4 feet tall and um so the parking lot won't be shielded by the burm which I would like to see. Um and then but then later on it says that the applicant shall have the flexibility to adjust or remove the burm based on drainage conditions, ordinance requirements, um NC do requirements or Union County water requirements. So that sounds to me like even though we, you know, Max just read that about getting a burm, probably not going to get a burm because, you know, any of these um different organizations can say, you know, no, you can't have that burm because we need to put our drainage or whatever in there. Um, okay. They talk about the landscaping the um enhanced landscaping um in kind of the beginning enhanced landscaping specified planting standards 10 evergreens blah blah blah are provided for the enhanced landscaping around dry storm water ponds subject to

state and local requirements. Um D dry would be the um what we used to call retention ponds I believe. Is that the correct Max? We used to

retention ponds. Okay. Where the water goes out. Um, and then they said if they have to use the wet ponds, wet detention ponds, they're going to not have the enhanced landscaping, but they're going to have a fountain and some other um pretty um enhancements. But then later they kind of take that back. They just say a fountain and then later on they just say that I don't think we're going to do anything if it's a wet pond. Um I just heard from the applicant my own ears that um they're going to save two of the oak trees. So make sure we got that on the map. Um oh and also the enhanced landscaping. They talk about, you know, how many trees are going to be in there and but later on they say on page 21 G, the development of the site shall be a planned unified development, which it is not. We don't have a planned unified development that I I could see anywhere in North Carolina. Um there's a lot of states that do have them, but they're they're more for to have open space for the town or recreational activities, things like that. Um then they don't have to meet the tree and open space developments provided that the site as a whole meets such tree and open space requirements. I mean, that makes no sense. It's not a planned um unified development as I said. So how you know is Max's going to go out

there and count okay so you have this many trees. I mean I think each parcel should have the amount of trees you know that they say 10 evergreen shrubs and that kind of thing. Um, okay. I I heard I think Mike talking about the um um gas station and I think what what needs to be done, not talking about the time that it's open, but what needs to be done is putting shields on the lights from the gas station because I've seen gas stations that are just blinding because the town didn't think about putting shields on the lights. Um, that might be all I have, but my my issue is the vagueness and the inconsistencies. I mean, are they going to have a burm or are they not going to have a burm? So, don't tell us they're going to have a burm and then say, "Oh, we couldn't do it. We couldn't do this. We couldn't do certain things." Um, that's all I think I that's all I have for now.

Max, would you be able to help uh answer that? Would you be able to help clarify some of those issues, the BMS and whatnot? So I think what Lori is alluding to is they have incorporated um like elements like the burm but due to you know certain requirements during the site plan review um an NCDOT approval things like that there are some elements where that cannot be accomplished. So if you want um to ask the developer to commit that it shall be incorporated without any um any flexibility, you may request. So

yeah, I I could live with that. But they say it a couple of different times. Oh, there's going to be a burm and then well there might not be a burm if we can't do it. Yeah, that's not maybe we could incorporate uh I would say maybe it' be a question for the developer, but something that you could ask maybe could be the applicant shell install of the burm um and then the location of the burm may change due to these requirements. I I could probably live with the location, but it's, you know, it's got to be a real burm, not, you know, a couple inches off the ground and have landscaping. And I mean, you know, the uh landscaping criteria,

they that'll be a question for the developer to agree to. So maybe some of the inconsistencies where they have some flexibility for like the landscaping and the burm request we could ask the developer if they would remove the flexibility language but you know making them install them but leaves at least leaving them flexibility if you know there are some site pl uh site plan constraints when they're doing the site plan review to allow alter alternate locations of that and they would have to come to you. They can't just say, "Oh, we put it over here where," No, it doesn't matter. I I would want them. Most of the most we can have it go to the development administrator if you like.

Um that'd be something that you would have to ask the applicant today. So, do we need to walk through each one of these right now? And um kind of talk I mean I kind of feel like we're going to not sew it up or something. So, are we going to talk through each one of those? address that. That would be up to the developer to agree to those anyway. Sounds good. Y a different plan. I'll put this up.

I I believe I heard you. I believe I heard the the dialogue say there that we shall install the burm with those exceptions, but those exceptions could only be if approved by the planning director. That that's fine with us. We're we're not trying to get out of anything. We're just trying not to agree to something that we wouldn't be able to physically do. So if if NC DOT had a requirement or Union County Public Works had a requirement and and that was presented to the planning director and the planning director confir confirmed that that'd be the only reason we'd want any type of exception to the Burma. Otherwise, we're going to build it all the way across as as was requested to to buffer that a little bit. The other thing to point out is is if you look on IDA wild road th those um that air development area B is set back quite a bit from IDA wild already. So we do have quite a bit of room there and and the the language says anywhere between the building and the rideway. So so we should have good flexibility to move forwards and backwards there to get around any any any uh

any constraints. So you so we will we will agree to that. We will agree to the way it was written, but we can only have the exception if it's a and we'll add if approved by the planning director. Okay. And you would put it somewhere else. Yeah, like like I was point out, I think we can move try and move forward backwards as long as we can get it in there get it in there somewhere. And was it the length of that um those two buildings?

Yeah. Area development area B. Yeah. Which is the the commercial area along ID water. It would be that entire frontage where the where the uh there's there's already a 24 foot landscape buffer coming down through there with the with the greenway and somewhere we'll incorporate that burm the entire length with the only exception being if we can't and that's confirmed by the planning director. Okay. We won't be just doing we won't not do it just to get out of it. we just if we don't do it there'll be a reason to. Um but you can also put in the note that it has to be the same quality. Yeah, the

somewhere on the site. I don't know where else you would put it. I we'll put it between the language currently reads we'll put it between the buildings in development area A and the ID wild road rideway. So somewhere in there and that's quite a quite a wide distance in there that we have to work. Right. That's what I like about the that it's, you know, covering up some gas station pumps and and and and speaking of the gas station, after after further consideration, we've decided that we will concede to the no 24 hours on the convenience store.

Thank you. Can you repeat that? We will agree to the not open for 24 hours on the convenience store. Well, thank you. That was a very good um and the shields on the lights that we we we were whispering about that. The shields on the lights are already in the ordinance and we actually had a lot of dialogue with staff about, you know, along the town homes and everything much closer to the neighborhood and the the ordinance is is really tight on that. The the idea is no light can shine beyond the boundary line. It has to has to be shielded. That's already in your ordinance, right? And the enhanced um

Oh, if I could address the the wet pond, dry pond thing. Yeah. Are you going to put a fountain in?

It's our intention that that all three ponds would be wet ponds. And we're spending a lot of time talking about the site that's already approved and not part of this. But but when you come in the main entrance, we desire to have a wet pond on both sides of the main entrance and that one side will get pushed back to save at least two of the oak trees. And and the idea is to have a wet pond with a fountain. That that's a much better desirable entry feature into the community as compared to a dry pond. However, there are conditions sometimes when a wet pond is not feasible through engineering and if and if the wet pond is not feasible and we end up with a dry pond, that's when we're agreeing to the additional enhanced landscaping, right?

And the reason the reason that note on there is um where where it's permissible on the the down slope of a dry pond, you typically have what what what looks like a dam. You you you can't have landscaping on that dam because that dam is an earthn dam to hold back water. It can't have roots in So, so we will enhance if it if it ends up being a dry pond, which we don't want it to be, but if it does become a dry pond, we will enhance the landscaping around that, but that that's going to be the kind of the focal point coming into the entire community. So, so two twin wet ponds on each side of that with fountains are going to look really great.

Okay. Okay. And then what you said on page 21 of of our um information about open space develop. It's it's not a planned uni unified development. So you should take that off of there. But um the the site as a whole will meet the tree save and the open space requirements. So you're not going to put some of the enhanced um trees and

two two two things there. Planned unit development I think is maybe a other state term. We didn't we didn't inter we didn't intend to make any sort of connotation towards planned unit development as it's defined in other states. We just meant it's a planned development with you know this conditional zoning and the already approved zoning. What what I thought was one of the most important things in the uh in the note there is we wanted to have the flexibility to prioritize the existing mature trees within the tree buffer we've been talking about along the Shamar mayor neighborhood. O otherwise if we if we don't put a priority on that there there may be it it was it was part of our concession to leave that that buffer there is that those trees are going to be the take the priority when it comes to the tree safe and the entire site is rather consistent as far as how how long it's been forested until you get all the way up to to the to the plan north end there. So it's going to be a very nice forested buffer as compared to a planted landscape buffer in front of a fence. Okay. That can you take that off of there? The calling it a planned unified development and

provided that the whole Well, it's not it's it doesn't say plan unit development and it's not a a legal term of art. It just means that this is one site plan, one conditional resoning. And we can take that phr that that point off, but the that phrase, but the point is that the tree save and open space is calculated over the entire site because it's one development. That's all. I mean, we can take the the term plan unified development, but but the tree save is calculated over the the entire site. And as Terry said, the point is to priorize prioritize the tree the tree safe next to Shannamara and and but it's not a plan unit development like what you're referring to. And it doesn't say that. I know that. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

And and and just for clarification because I often look read the memos and then the agendas and everything. The most important thing is the plans were updated a week ago and we resubmitted our plans and what's on these plans and the notes that's in these plans is exactly what we're committing to. It was our intent to copy everything verbatim right off of those memos and put them in here. So, whenever you're going through the whenever you're going through the development notes and there's a little uh triangle with a three in it, that that's a new that's all of those new things that have been outlined here tonight that are on the current plans that that are before you tonight w with the exception of the 24 hours on the convenience store and the second oak. Th those are two things that need to be added. Um and and and the and the planning director must approve any exceptions to the burm being the full length. Those three things need to be added um as as conditions tonight.

Mr. Williams, I do have another question. um something that caught my eye in this most recent memo and that an astute neighbor of mine emailed about this morning as well, which is in clearing and grading in development area A. And there's a sentence that says it shall not be cleared or graded until Union County has approved a sketch plan or applicant has a development agreement with another thirdparty public utility. And the I'll just read from the email. Um, it hints at the possibility of septic systems being used to service the residential units. What's meant by third party public utility cuz I don't understand outside of Union County water what we're talking about.

Um, sometimes between jurisdictions, they tend to not play well together and and not utilize the sewer the way it should be. And there's been a trend lately for third party public utilities. These are public utilities approved by the North Carolina Utility Commission coming in and filling filling those gaps. Um, this when and the key word there is public utility and we're happy first of all there is no room on the site for for septic and well to work in any way possible. These will be public utilities, public sewer, public water.

So outside of Union County water, what are we talking about? What's an option? Um ju just to our north is Charlotte Water and Charlotte Water has excess water and sewer capacity and Charlotte Water won't reach out into Union County but there are third party public utilities that that can fill that void. I'm still not understanding. So there's there's a there's a gap between what you're talking about with Charlotte Water. What is it what is an example of a third party public utility in this case?

Um Carolina Water is a third party public utility. They actually already have some facilities down in Himby Bridge. Um, but but a a a utility such as that could purchase the water from Charlotte Water and they're still a public utility and they could distribute it through the neighborhood and they could capture the sewer and the sewer could be pumped back to Charlotte Water. So, this needs to go under 485 essentially.

It does. And it it only a project like that only makes sense or only happens if it if it's on large scale. And as you as you may or may not be aware, we we have approximately uh about 55 acres that are in the town of Stallings but in Meckleberg County right along 485 kind of between Stinson Farms and 485. And a combined project like that makes makes things like that possible. So, to be clear, we're not, you mentioned that septic is not feasible. There's not enough space for something. There's there's a neighborhood in our town that has a private sewer plant that uh is is occasionally undesirable due to its odor. We're not talking about something like that. We

we'll we'll commit to no packaged plant or private plant, no uh septics or wells other wells will be only for irrigation.

All right. I'll ask the planning director to add that as well. Thank you. Mr. Mayor, if I may, um, just to add a few words as Councilman Richardson did as well. Um, just because this has been such a an intense project, uh, vocationally, I speak extemporaneously, but I prepared a few notes because, um, this project is really important, and as a resident of Shannara, um, wanted to explain where where I stand on this as well. Um and and so we're really being asked to evaluate a change and it's it's really a binary one which is I don't think the ideal version of of the way this would go of whether it's strictly the commercial project or the one with commercial and residential. But um I I've enjoyed hearing from all of my neighbors and met some really smart and talented people along the way and and learned a lot from them as well. and um just wanted to address some of the the common themes that I heard from whether it was residentled meetings, the HOA meetings that I attended, the neighborhood meetings on this. Um and so one was traffic. And I think that anybody who is in this room has driven through the intersection of Stevens Mill and Idle Wild, and you'd agree that you wish you were moving faster. Uh on the way here today, I got caught at the light coming down toward town hall, and I wish I was moving faster. Um but building roads is really expensive. So, we had our our budget meeting before this meeting today to start putting together our budget for next year. Our street maintenance budget next year is uh estimated around $1.4 million. And from what Mr. Williams has told us previously about this project is that the road improvements from this project, not including to the north, will be in the neighborhood of 1 to$ 1.5 million to give you an idea of the scale of the improvements that we're looking at. So I think what this does here and I've I've gotten emails including today from folks who have said well you can't go forward with something that doesn't address the

traffic issues and I think this does in a meaningful way address those traffic issues with the we didn't see that today but we've seen it in previous meetings of seeing the addition of through lanes the addition of turn lanes the addition of a traffic signal which I know is not widely popular um and I have my reservations about that as well but um I found it valuable to listen to the experts on this And two people who I think deserve uh a good amount of praise on this are one our planning director Max Shang and two our engineering director Kevin Parker um who have done an excellent job on this. Um their goal is the same as ours which is to create the best possible project for the town and so um I think they they deserve a lot of credit for this. Um as a as a condition of this project too, um the traffic improvements are going to be required to be substantially complete before any certificate of occupancy can be issued for a building that's on the site. So there's a direct incentive for this work to be done and none of it comes at at the town's expense. I know there have been a lot of questions and understandably so about the conditional nature of this project and the number of of variances or or conditions upon that. But I think the the important note is that um this gives the town leverage to be able to get the things that make it the best possible project. And that's really what we're tasked with here. It's it's it's not thumbs up, project goes forward, thumbs down, the corner stays the same cuz I'd love to see trees there forever. I would, but that's not the question that we're being asked. And so, um I do appreciate some of the concessions that the the applicant has made. I wish there would be more, but it's a negotiation and that's how that works. Um there's a question about service implications too. Um whether it's police or schools or sewer capacity. And I I appreciate uh a couple weeks ago our police chief uh Dennis Franks who evaluated a larger town home development Stone Creek which is on Stallings Road which is 220 uh units and

he looked at the total number of police calls from January 23 through February 26. And those 220 town homes were responsible for just under 105 calls per year or nine calls per month. So one call every 3 days. And his assessment was that adding 118 town homes would not create any issues with the police department. Um you have school data as well. Um and yes, I know from I've heard from people anecdotally that the school population is high. Um the school demography study also shows that the overall population of schools is down. Um and I don't discount the disruption of the possibility of attending a more distant school rather than Stallings Elementary or Porter Ridge. And I know that doesn't make life any easier because sitting in pickup lines are going to drop off kids is is not always an enjoyable experience. Um but Union County Public Schools also faces the question of how it chooses to handle its capacity. And as far as a a an issue with sewer capacity, as we just talked about as well, um you know, the towns make their decisions within the county and the county makes its own, but only one board manages how much sewer capacity is and it is not this one. Um as far as the balance of commercial versus residential, early on in this project, town staff informed us that the mix of commercial versus residential was about 55% commercial, 45% residential. Now, in theory, as a previous speaker mentioned uh earlier in the meeting, you know, 100% commercial project goes a long way toward balancing that and and meeting our demands, but no project exists in a vacuum either. And so, I think that the only the commercial use would not be the best use of this land because of the traffic that it would generate. And just a simple way to think about that, even if you don't want to get into the traffic studies and the uses, is just to say if you have solely a grocery store and solely commercial spots, that one parking spot might turn over 10 times a day. But if you have a residential parking spot, that might turn over when I go to work, when I come

home from work, when I go to the gym after work, that's three times a day. Which granted, that's if that's an average, they're going to be more than that and they're going to be less than that. But that's the way that I I looked at it in addition to the more in-depth data was to understand why when we say that creates less traffic when in our minds that's counterintuitive. I I understand where people land on that. Lastly, there were concerns about um restrictions on ownership which uh legally we're not allowed to consider. That's um North Carolina Supreme Court state statute that we cannot take that into consideration. So um I appreciate um being heard out on this. I know that uh my support of this uh will be in contradiction to the wishes of of many people, but I hope that um for the reasons that I've expressed uh that it's a decision that makes sense. So, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Ram, any thoughts uh or questions? I'll let Stephen go first. I just had a one more quick question. Do that. The roads currently in all of Stinson Farms and this one here is going to continue to be private. Is that correct? Correct. Okay. All right. I'll throw it back to you. Of course. Oh, did you want me to ask more questions? Oh, you can. No. Uh, all right.

I'll be So, first off, I wanted to thank everyone actually for showing up tonight. I want to thank everyone in the town and in Shannara and all the residents who sent me emails and just participating in this and um letting your voices be heard. It's I I really do appreciate it. I read every email and noted all of the comments. Uh it actually is I I think it's helpful to see um people's opinions and to see that we do have a lively and engaged community. So first just want to say that I appreciate it. I also want to say I appreciate town's staff's time and energy on this. I know this has been a project that's been t um going on for a while and it's taking up a lot of time. So, I really appreciate everyone uh being so responsive and especially answering my questions. As dumb as some of them may have been um walking holding my hand through some of the this asyine questions I'm sure I asked along the way. Uh I don't think I have anything additional to add. I will just say I don't see how this project as is align with our land use plan. So while I may be the only I am to quote Mr. Richardson uh one vote I will say I am a no. All right,

that conclude discussion and questions. I'll just make a few comments. John,

yeah, I do want to thank everybody that's been involved. It's been uh very heartening to see all the community involvement. I haven't agreed with everything that's been, you know, emailed to me. I've seen some, you know, good points, some misinformation, but the fact that the community is engaged in voicing their opinions, um I very much value that. um had some very good meetings one-on-one. Some people met me, you know, during the workday for coffee or uh whatever. And so that was very uh good experiences to get to know some of the people in the community very well. And the as I've been considering this, I agree very much with uh Mayor Prom Richardson's comments about that. It's been confusing to me too to see the lack of desire for the residential buffering between the commercial and that I don't I don't know. I just I don't think if I live there I would want the commercial that close to me. But at the same time, we only have so many opportunities to rebalance the tax base. And even though there's been a lot of good concessions and I commend staff and the developer for the negotiations that have gone on and all the agreements that have uh come out of this, um I do find it inconsistent with our economic development plan. And uh for that reason, I'm going to be not in favor of this.

That concludes our unless you have something else, Stephen. I like going last. You want to go last again?

Exactly. So, so I I will tell folks that I'm kind of a numbers guy. I I have read through every email and I do find that there are a lot of inconsistencies. Uh a lot of it has been traffic. Uh and I do believe based off of everything that I've read the traffic's going to be a little bit lower here. Um I do have concerns. I will tell anybody that wants to know about the commercial butdding up against the neighborhood. I have I'm not a feelings kind of guy. I typically go with the numbers. I reached out to several realators across our area and asked them about the impacts of commercial against the value of the properties specifically close to the commercial. And they all said the same thing that it will generate less views for those houses if they go up to sell and over time those will drop and lose value um for the commercial. They did say that that would not be the case for town homes especially with this level of buffer. So, I'm concerned with this one because I think the town homes do provide a better long-term uh buffer for the town and going into the future and and I am concerned based off of that aspect. Um I I just uh I I I do have reservations about the gas station. I think that currently we're kind of in a retrograde uh here in the United States for uh gasoline. Uh I think that we have in the past trended with our European partners by a few years trailing and that uh eventually I think things will swing

back the other way and gas will start to to fade away again a little bit. And so, uh, for those that don't know, on the corner over here, we have a gas station spot that is empty and it's been hard to develop because there's uh, effectively gas tanks still underground that would need to be remediated before anything could be built over there. I'm not concerned about traffic. I live next door to 118 town homes or 113 town homes over here uh right beside the park. I can tell you that in the last 2 months I've kind of tried to be very aware of cars going in and out. We only have one exit from our neighborhood. They only have one exit out of their neighborhood in that two months. I've never once and I commute to downtown so I'm in the traffic not every morning but pretty much every morning. Uh so and they are widening my road because traffic is horrible over here. Um, so, um, I will say though that in that two months that we've been talking about this project extensively, there's not been not one time that I've waited for somebody to go into that neighborhood or for them to come out. Matter of fact, in that time period, I've only ever seen one car deep waiting to get out of that that neighborhood. So, I'm kind of split on this one here. And I think the piece that's really driving me, the two pe big pieces is my concern about the gas station um and and where that might lead us in long term because I know there's some other gas stations planned up the road. And then the other piece of this though is

that I do believe that I I like the buffer for long-term in between Shanomara uh neighborhood because I think long-term I think the commercial is going to be bad for the houses that are right up against it. Um so that's my thoughts. Um I'm still kind of debating but uh but those are kind of my thoughts. Can you address the concerns over that you raised about not wanting the town? No. Appreciate your thought, but this is not the not the appropriate place for that now.

All right. So, what do you want to do next?

Well, I think I do want to clarify one or two things. Uh, first off, I do um want to follow up. My vote is not based on the traffic. I will I just do want to clarify that I actually agree with the the analysis that was done. It actually makes perfect sense. Similar to you, I've been when I leave my neighborhood, I have a mile and a half drive. I in the mornings I have encountered three or less cars every day driving turning into Steven's Mill um grocery store. I mean, I'm waiting in traffic and I am butting up against cars even when I get in the grocery. So, I I actually do think the TIA is analysis is fine. Um, but again, my vote is purely based on the land use plan and I do actually support uh echo the concern. I have concerns with the gas station as well as the fact that the proximity with the fast food Um it's it's a lot right there. We've seen it with Steven's Mill where you have a gas station and a um fast food, the traffic that has created and the near accidents that seem to happen on a daily basis. But

sorry, I was buying you time. Sure. Did he ask? Don't break it up.

Thank you. Next. Turning it back to him. I'm good. I'm good. Then I'll entertain a motion. I'd like to make a motion, Mr. Mayor, to approve CZ25.08.01. um in addition to finding it consistent and reasonable with the comprehensive land use plan in addition to all of the amendments as agreed to by the applicant and recorded by the planning director.

I'll second that motion. Can can I ask one more quick question before he seconds? One more. um the the plan that you currently have. Um where where in the grade out area do you see the trash cans going the the big dumpsters? Let me know the things that I was talking.

Thank you. Be easier to hear, you know, supposed to be the concept plan that has been approved. This is what we're takes commercial all the way over to the Shannar boundary. Yeah. And it it and the concept plan that had been approved got amended and there was a I I'm going off memory, but I think it was like there was so many feet that the dumpsters had to be away from the boundary. However, this proposed conditional resoning takes that 100 feet and makes it all buffer and then has town homes and then has commercial. So, so approval of the conditional reszoning dramatically moves dumpsters further away from from Shannar.

And I kind of what I'm looking at here is just like Councilman Richard had said earlier is that I'm I'm looking at the existing approval and there are dumpsters pretty close. Uh when I look over here at the grayed out zone, I don't see any and I my eyesight's not as good as

it's intentional because that's actually what we're not talking about tonight is the reason it's difficult to see that and that and that w that will be that will have to come back to planning for an amendment to reflect these town homes adjacent to that to that revised concept plan. and and we can we can address the dumpsters again, but the overall benefit of approving the conditional zonings as it relates to dumpsters is they have to be the 100 foot buffer and the alley behind the town homes and the town homes away and then the town homes are kind of acting as a sound barrier, sound wall between the commercial and and the neighborhood.

And and I appreciate that there. My concern is is that if we approve the town homes, I mean, that's going to be another entity that's going to be coming to us to complain about the dumpsters. So, I'm trying to understand where that might actually exist. Where where do you think I mean, I won't hold you to it, but

typically um this plan is going to change. It actually shows a small shop building that looks like an island in the parking lot. Um that that does not fit there anymore. So, so there's going to be small shops along Stevens Mill Road and then there's going to be the the anchor in the back potentially with with small shops on each side of it. And uh we've envisioned I don't know how much detail you want me to get into that because this is not what we're talking about tonight, but but we've envisioned almost a a solid wall behind the main anchor where where the trucks would come in and dumpsters would be there for that so that the the neighbors across the street would have parallel parking on each side of the street with landscaping and they'd be looking at that wall, some sort of decorative wall on on the back of the shopping center.

Okay. Okay. I mean, I was just uh trying to compare and contrast. Sorry. Sorry, mayor. I just wanted to to answer that question. All right. So, we've got a motion and a second. How does the vote council vote? All in favor? I I'm in favor. I three. All against nay.

I guess it comes down to me. And being a Shannamar resident, I echo Brad's concerns that long-term having the the u the buffer being the commercial project is not ideal to put it bluntly. Um long-term for those homeowners, the future homeowners, for the town of Stallings, uh it it needs to be a step down as planned. We're so with the uh with the uh town home. So I vote yay. Motion passes.

Just for the record, should we reall read the condition so we because we're going to need to change the plan to reflect it so that we're clear. Okay. Okay. I included those in the motion. Thank you. I'm sorry to hear that. And there was four, right? That's what you counted. Four. It's three. Three. But the mayor is the tiebreaker. No, no, no. Four conditions. Four for conditions. Four conditions. We had maxis on them. Max. Yeah. Four. Okay. Burm. No. 24 hours. Second oak and no package plants. And

recess. Um, yeah, we'll take a uh couple minutes, two minutes for the room to quiet or not, and we'll have um planning board application is up next with Mr. uh Kater Joseph is around somewhere. Hi, Scott. How are you? How are you?

Been better. Not too worried about I'm not too worried about it. Uh yeah, that would have been ideal. No. Yes. I'm so used to that wasn't an easy could have gone either way, but in the end I think it's best. I know even guys in the coffee were telling about that item. No, that was at the beginning of the meeting during public comment. Yes, Sam. Yeah, at the it's at the very beginning of every meeting. Really? Um and we have it every second and fourth Monday. Yes, ma'am.

He lives down near

I haven't yet. It's all crumbles. The crumbles are supposed to happen, but very hard. I I'll come by and take a look at it. But yeah, it's supposed to crumble up. Yeah, even even the we had them come here make a presentation and they did say that the crumbles will come off and then they'll come through and sweep else

now she's Good. Good to see you. Yeah, thanks for being here. I think it's like a green tea like this one was tough. I mean, oh, the other one. I think the biggest thing. All right, council. Let's get rolling on the next agenda item, which is the uh planning board application. Turn that over to Aaron briefly.

Um, yes, Mayor. Thank you for that. Um, we have and I believe the applicant is here, Mr. Mr. Joseph. Um he his application was attached to your email. Um he is would like to be on the planning board. Currently on your planning board, you have um alternate positions vacant. So if you were to choose to appoint Mr. Joseph tonight, um he would be the first alternate on the planning board with the term expiring March the 31st, 2028. Thank you. Any questions of the board?

What does I I know you gave us a few months back a sheet of representation as we were looking to fill out all those spots. Where where does Mr. Joseph live district-wise and where do we stand in as far as that representation? He's in district five. Um we currently have one other person from district 5, but we are good with your new policy as far if you appoint him tonight. Um the only district after tonight should you appoint Mr. Joseph that is not represented on the board would be um district 4. Thank you. I'm working on it. Get Heather back. May I make a motion to approve Mr. Joseph's for a planning board? What's ending 331? He would be the planning board alternate. First alternate.

First alternate for a term ending March of 2028. Correct. I'll second. All in favor? I. That's unanimous. Thank you, Mr. Joseph Gater. Welcome. Welcome.

All right. Next up is um Melanie. Um I'm sorry. I thought I was after the golf cart. Um

no, you're 5A. We as part of the Stinson Farms condemnations, we had a mediation scheduled on Wednesday in the town of Stallions versus Nine Ventures LLC case. Originally, we deposited $1,000 and that was for a right of way that's 0005 acres and a temporary construction easement that's 013 acres. And we've agreed to settle the case for $5,000. So that would be an additional $4,000. and then the town would pay any administrative fee for the mediator or if there's a cancellation fee since the the mediation was scheduled on Wednesday. So, we're just asking approval of that amount.

Is there a cap on that the extra fees? It it's not going to be more than $200 or $300. Okay. Thank you. Move approval of of the settlement agreement. Second. We need to settlement of the number and every all that the case number town. Oh, the clerk has that. It's 25 CV2956-890. Is there a second? I think there's tie one to the runner. Yeah, they give it to Councilman Vandere. Well, thank you. Hasn't had one yet today. All right. All in favor? I I

unanimous. All right. Thank you, Melanie, for taking care of that for us. Um the next item is discussion and possible action of um u the directing staff, but in case you guys um especially if you aren't in a golf club or golf course community, maybe it's not as big of a deal. that it isn't Shanomar, probably isn't Emerald Lake. that golf carts are being driven by younger and younger kids uh recklessly and unsafe and really hit me when I saw an accident u three weeks ago. I think it was two two weeks ago a Morsville middle schooler fell out of the golf cart that she was a passenger in and died. The funeral was on like a week a week ago, I think Saturday. And I'm like, dang, I could I could be here. I could easily be here given the number of reckless and young kids who are not trained, not licensed. Um, and I don't know exactly what all the laws are and ramifications are and what we need to do. And this also goes for ebikes, e- scooters. These little squirts are just going crazy with them. And I I I don't want them to not have fun, but this is beyond fun. This is unsafe. And they're zipping around in traffic. Sometimes they're even out on Steven's Mill for my neck of the woods. That's Stevens Mill's busy. Uh Shannar is busy enough, but dang gone. So I was over at the golf course today. As you know, I'm the golf coach. I was talking to the head pro over there and we were chatting. I said, "Hey, by the way, are you having problems with ebikes and whatnot on the golf course?" And he definitely is. Uh he's got number of well not a number several outstanding whatever's going on with the police department trying to figure out who's doing what and they're trying to get

pictures and whatnot but it is a concern. It is becoming more of an issue and I just don't want to I just don't want to have anyone especially a little not especially I don't want to have a little kid die off of one of these things because either somebody was accidentally reckless or somebody just didn't see them and hit them. And the way they're zipping around at the speeds they're zipping around. Golly, that scares me as a dad, as a mayor, as a resident, as a human. It It just bugs me that this possibility can happen. And I I I drive very carefully, but I know a lot of people don't. So, anyhow, I would like us to perhaps discuss it, any concerns you have, if you have any, and maybe direct um staff and um well, actually, Melanie, you're doing something similar over in Indian Trail, aren't you?

For ebikes, not for golf carts. It's similar enough that ebikes are e I want this probably should have said or I should have said to staff, it should be e golf cart and ebikes. They're all uniform. They're two different things. So 168-300.6 allows the town to create regulations regarding the golf carts. Um and it states specifically in there, no person less than 16 years of age may operate a golf cart on a public street, road, or highway. Um so we can if we don't already have one, do we have an ordinance on golf carts? Yes. Oh, we already have one. Okay. So if we already have one, I don't know that there's

anything additional we need to do. What what is that ordinance kind of what it what does it say? Chief chief I knew chief would be ready.

Uh our ordinance uh golf this is strictly for golf carts. We don't our ordinance doesn't address ebikes, scooters, those sorts of things. Um um golf carts cannot be on streets that have a speed limit greater than 25. Um they have to stay on the right of the road and they have to yield to pedestrians and vehicles. You got to be I think Melanie was touched on that. You have to be a licensed driver and adhere to the laws of North Carolina. Um there's a couple specifics. You have to have working headlights if it's operated um after dark, a rear red lamp um be visible from 200 feet. Um so, uh the only requirement we don't have is you don't have to have seat belts. Some people have seat belts. Really, those are I mean, I use this term loosely, UTVs where they can be registered. Um I know one person in Shannar that has his golf cart is able to get license plates if he wanted. So, um but uh um and kind of touching on Melany's point, I just talked to the chief of Mint Hill this afternoon. They're getting ready to do something very similar with ebikes. Uh Cornelius just uh passed a relatively large ordinance with all those electric scooters, bikes, all that stuff. There is examples out there. Um just from a uh when this came up, mayor, a couple weeks ago, um I'm a big advocate of educating first. We don't get a lot of golf cart complaints. I'll be honest. We pulled um the records. I had

I know they go by so fast. I'm like I had three complaints in Shannar the last five years. That was what was called in the police and I I'm sure that you've all that live there have been through there. There probably have been more. It's just I I haven't taken I'm not going to call the police for that or whatever. I mean that happens a lot.

Um I'm a huge advocate of educating our community first. Um, and after I talked to or emailed back with uh the manager and you, Mayor, uh, our new community outreach officer, Detective Teague, I've tasked him with creating a series of safety videos involving the police, involving um, uh, the rules and regulations of our ordinance and state statute. Um, got to have a little sense of humor on those things just to get people to engage and watch them. Um, it's serious, but we don't need a robot up there talking and nobody's going to listen to it. Is this Captain America?

No. No, sir. No. Uh Fred Teague is one of our our younger detectives. Um but he's working on that. Matter of fact, he's reached out to Ununice this past week. Uh she was gracious enough to offer to help edit some of the video footage we do. So, um that's in the works and I think that is a huge first step. Um and I will say on Good Friday, I got u I got two pictures of golf carts being stopped in Shannara. Oh, yeah. With uh underage kids driving. Um, and we had their parents come pick them up and make them take the golf cart home. Do they have to have a license? The 16 year olds have to have a driver.

You have to have a license. Yeah, you still have to you have to meet all the rules of the road for the state of North Carolina to operate those on the road. Yes, ma'am. Chief, what's the rules? Sorry. What's the rule regarding the the electric bikes now? They're pedals, so they belong in the road, but they're not supposed to be on the sidewalks, but they are. So,

I have a PowerPoint right here that I'm presenting to Indian Trail tomorrow night. Okay, so the definition of an ebike is a bicycle with two or three wheels that is equipped with a seat or saddle for use by the rider fully operable pedals for human propulsion. So if it doesn't have pedals, it's a moped. An electric motor of no more than 750 watts, but again, how is the, you know, police department seeing one going by know if it's 750 watts? And whose maximum speed on a level surface when powered solely by the motor is not greater than 20 miles per hour. So, I'm confused now because mopeds they they have pedals, too. They used to. Yeah. Yeah. You could pedal a moped.

Now, mopeds are required to be registered, so they have to have a license plate. These, as Melanie just defined, don't. Then there's an emoto also. And there's an emoto. So, what about uh electronic scooters, too? Cuz a kid went by me walking my dog the other day and I blinked and he was gone. It depends on how fast the vehicle's going. Okay. Can I borrow a radar gun?

And sometimes the the 20 gets a little dicey on the radar being able to register. Yeah. Uh the screen. So, and that's what and not knowing what Melanie was working on, the the draft ordinance I found was from Cornelius. They've addressed a lot of those same bullets that Melanie just mentioned. What I mean what we've I say we I've worked with the um Captain Mullis of the Union County Sheriff's Office have looked at this is there there's a lot of tools already out there for law enforcement to handle this. So the question is you know what is the issue the town's facing and is this something that the state statutes don't really cover? if there's an issue with ebikes on the greenways, for example, and you want to keep them off greenways. Um, but one of the discussions we had in Indian Trail was if you're not let letting ebikes on sidewalks, are you also then not allowing bicycles on sidewalks? And would you rather have a, you know, 13-year-old kid drive on the sidewalk or on the road with traffic? Because if you're going to get hurt on a sidewalk, that's going to be a lot different than, you know, facing vehicles on the road. Um, we cannot regulate them on North Carolina, right, DOT roads. So, it would be limited to Stallings roads and any of our parks or greenways. Um, there's ready requirement for in the state statute for helmets, for lights, um, various restraining seats. Um, in terms of criminal enforcement, there's seconddegree trespass, willful and wanting injury to property if they're going on someone's, you know, lawn and and um damaging the property, reckless driving, unsafe movement, um contributing to the delinquency or neglect of a juvenile because sometimes I've been told that the sheriff's office calls and the parents don't right don't

care and parents can be held responsible if the teens right are are fleeing from law enforcement. Um their statutes on street takeovers. So really the in my opinion the only thing an ordinance could do is require helmets for those 16 and older on parks, greenways, and town roads. Um 16 and older or younger?

16 and older because right now 16 and under have to have helmets. Okay. That's the state statute, right? So, it's just is are there any empty pockets in the state statutes that cause the need for the town to have an ordinance? But if we feel like the state statute and the police departments can use those tools they already have in the state statute, then do we need an ordinance or not for for the I will throw out I I looked at just golf carts and then I had our records folks go back and look at anything electric and that number went from 3 to 15. So there were more, but over five years, not significantly more. No, it's it's I I got to like whoever one of them just said they're gone. Yeah.

By the time you think about calling, they're long gone. And when they do happen to catch them, I've seen them just zip up on the golf course and you guys aren't going to chase them. And and that's I I will I will not name the department, but another department in Union County got in a chase with one of those. Our policy would prohibit prohibit that only because the risk to the person being pursued uh is not outweighed by the need of public safety. Yeah. So, we wouldn't even be pursuing those just because you have a 16-year-old take a spill on that even at 20 miles an hour.

Yeah, I get it. So, the only other thing uh two things I want to accomplish tonight. One, I'd like the council to direct staff and chief to and Melanie to maybe educate us on all the options and tools and loopholes and whatnot that we need to know. And two, additionally to the training that you're doing video-wise, I think this might be an opportunity to go to the schools with our uh liaison officer. Um, and perhaps u Ununice, you know what's coming next? Well, you're grinning like you do, so I'm like

if if I I don't want to interrupt, sir. You're not. I I stopped. The school is it's very hard to get into the school for those pieces to be honest just because of the way their day is set up. But Ununice I think just applied for the helmet grant that we do every year and our traffic enforce our or traffic education safety team uh puts on a bike safety but maybe we need to incorporate that if you could because electric I don't see many bicycles anymore. I see the e stuff. We we can try to incorporate that in part of our campaign. I would love that.

And Mr. Mayor, one of the things that when I spoke with Chief Franks earlier today about was uh an outreach campaign to neighborhoods as well. So, um like h offering to uh host a meeting at Shannamara for parents. Um I know we Mr. Ray is a member of the Shannara HOA. Um and I'm sure you would be welcome to to have an educational campaign as well to be able to make sure that we're reaching people not only just online but also in person. Yeah, I don't know about how well online will, but I know in person we'll be able to hit them. And especially, like I said, the folks who don't live in a golf course community, I don't know if you even see golf carts at all. Sure, maybe you do, but yeah, not as often as as I do, and Mike does, and

probably you too, Graham.

Yeah, I I would second Mr. Cousins's point. I think speaking at HOAs to the parents is going to go further. Um, especially enlightening them on what the ordinances and how they themselves can the consequences they can face if they keep allowing their children to do it. I will say in my neighborhood, I know of two golf carts that and it's the same kids and so it's clearly someone's allowing them to do it and but yeah, it's tough when they go by so fast and you're never you're not going to catch them. But I think if you teach the parents don't do this, don't let your kids do it.

Real quick question for Alex. Um, in what I think is going to be this request, when I was looking online, it seemed like there was going to, no matter what we did with the golf carts, it seemed like in order for us to um enforce that, that we would almost need like some type of permitting system. So, like if we required seat belts, um, we would have to do some type of permitting for those seat belts to make sure that they're in place. So, is that something that we have staff to do or I mean just something to think about?

Can I um interject that we're the next step I hope we do tonight is to ask staff to come up with ideas including that one. Okay. Okay. And bring it back to us in reasonable amount of time. That's what I was I was just wanting to include that consensus or a motion. What do you want, Alex? Yeah. Um, I think either is fine. I' just like to Great conversation. Thank you, Chief. Thank you, Melanie. Just trying to kind of summarize what I'm hearing. Thank you. Uh, thank you, Chief.

I heard Melanie say that ebikes and golf carts legally are two separate things. Uh, so I'm going to start with golf carts. first with golf carts. Um what we can do is uh do some we heard some educational campaigns. Sounds like Chief's already got a plan with from the the social media side and uh obviously golf carts I suspect are more prevalent in certain communities than others within the town. Right. I would think in uh Shannamara and Emerald Lake. Those would be the two neighborhoods that uh are the the most uh have the most golf cart travel. Would everybody agree with that? Okay.

Um I see somebody shaking their head. Yeah. They're up and down. Yeah. I know. In my neighborhood all the time. No, I hear you. Uh I I think for the purpose of this point what I was saying is going to the HOAs. Um probably it's it's those two that are the big ones. Fair point. Good point Jackie. Thank you. Um school. Well I think chief had mentioned it might be difficult to get in there but for the bicycle campaign. Yeah.

Uh so we'll do that. Um really I think the choice is going to be uh do you want to add a requirement for seat belts right or place further restrictions on golf carts. Um we can come back with some options for the board to consider there. Um and as far as permitting process that's something we can consider. I'm hesitant to These are things that you can have a permitting process. Yep. Yep. Not not tonight. Just uh uh and you have a consensus. Yes, sir. And then on the ebike side of things, um same thing. I

I think we need to before we go down maybe that super education route, learn a little bit more on I know a little bit more personally. I know Chief, you and I have talked about uh the golf cart rules. I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on those. As far as ebikes go, I feel like I'm not personally as knowledgeable. Chief, you're nodding your head in agreement. So, uh, I think we need to do a little bit more research and and come back with y'all with some options. So, I know we're not um I did not expect any answers. Just bring it up as a concern and why it's a concern. So, long story short, we'll we'll bring back some story long

local ordinance regulatory options for golf carts and then also ebikes. And then we'll uh we'll also it sounds like we can start some educational campaigns. Can we um quick question though um there's also in certain areas where I mean like you can buy off of Amazon a little gasoline power that you can strap to a regular bicycle. So we need to probably include that too. We're getting a lot of you know right now we're just sticking to the high level stuff and we'll dig down. I know. All right. I I know of at least two in my neighborhood that have Buy a little jetpack and add it to your back, too, and fly. I

I'm telling you, I know of at least two in my neighborhood that have You probably have them both. No, it's a toy you would like to have. All right, moving on. Thank you, Alex. Yes, absolutely. Um, just real quick, there was a bill that was presented in the Senate that would allow municipalities to regulate ebikes and it died for whatever reason in committee. Um, I don't know the reasons behind that, but it doesn't mean I mean you still have authority, right, for public safety and roads and all of that. So, it doesn't mean you can't create an ordinance, but for whatever reason, that didn't pass. Okay.

And materially, one more time, what makes the difference between an e motorcycle and an ebike? Just the fact that you can pedal one or the other, the how fast it goes and the size of the motor. Just Okay. All righty. Thank you very much. We're moving on to the next session which is sorry folks it's a close session pursuant to 143-318.11A3 and we need to invite Max so moves second all in favor I Mr. McCley Mr. and Mac. Well, that was a given. Max and Mac. Kevin. Hey guys. Welcome aboard. Yeah. And and Kevin as well. And Kevin.

Congratulations. Welcome. Welcome aboard. A little too late for that. Hi. Hey. Congratulations. Look forward to working with you. Yes, sir. No. Congratulations. Congratulations. So, so where you stay at? So what are you standing?