City Council - Regular Meeting

Today is Tuesday, May 26th, and we will now start the hearings portion of the City Council meeting. Madam Clerk, will you please call the roll?

Councillor Santanello. Present. Present, Councillor Martin. Present. Present, Councillor Perez. Absent, Councillor Brown.

Present.

Present, Councillor Govan. Present. Present. Will city councillors and our guests please stand for a moment of silence.

I do want to dedicate this moment of silence to two leaders in our community. We lost former state representative Benjamin Swan and also Henry Thomas III, who chaired the UMass Amherst campus for quite a long time as the chair and also was the president of the Urban League of Springfield for many years. So we will dedicate the moment of silence to them. Thank you. Please remain standing for our Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I feel like I could have said a lot more for both of those gentlemen, but I've been holding counselors here long enough. with the budget hearings. So we will go ahead and get started. Madam Clerk, will you please call the first, oh, let me give the rules. Let me give the rules of the hearing meetings. So we will hear from the proponents. You have 20 minutes to speak. That means your whole party has 20 minutes to speak. Once the proponents have finished, we can have questions from the counselors. From there, we go to opponents. So if there's any opposition to the item on the agenda, The opponents have 20 minutes to speak, followed by questions from the city councilor. After that, there is a 10-minute rebuttal period from proponents and opponents, if they want to rebut what any side has said. And then we close the hearing, city councilors deliberate, and from there we give our vote or we continue the item. So, Madam Clerk, will you please call the first item on the agenda?

The first item is a special permit for 1780 Boston Road to operate a drive-up service window.

Please state your name and address for the record.

Good evening, Councilors. Danny Hinoosh from West Springfield.

Hey, Danny. How you doing?

Good, and you?

All right. Tell us what's going on.

I'm the manager of 1780 Boston Road. It's originally the former KFC on Boston Road. It was originally built with a drive-through. It was last occupied by Express Kitchens. They've since closed and we're looking to re-tenant the property with Angie's Food Concepts. They're an affordable, healthy fast food chain that's expanding in New England. They need the drive-through. Since there was a change of use on that drive-through, I need to have it re-approved.

Thank you. Any others want to speak in favor of this item? Okay. Any questions from councillors? Councillor Brown?

First, I want to thank you, Danny, for... all the different things you've done in my area. This is something that's needed. You said it's health food? It's Angie's, I believe. Yeah, I believe she's a lady who just opened up. She just had a I know I've seen something about her on Facebook. So when we talk about the different things in my area, it was exciting to see that we had a grocery store in the pharmacy, and now just up the street to see now we have a healthier selection is fantastic. So I'm glad that we're getting away from some of this fast food. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Brown. Any other questions or comments from councillors? Councillor Davila.

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Good evening, Mr. Hanisch. So 1780 Boston Road, you say you were approved already for a drive-thru in the past?

The building was originally built as a drive-thru restaurant. Originally, it was a KFC, and since it hasn't been in use for a long time and there was a change of use, we're now looking to... have that use approved again.

What's there right now?

It was last Express Kitchens. Okay, so I see here. And they vacated in the last few months.

And what do you want to do with it? What's your plan with the location?

There's a tenant that's looking to open a restaurant there.

Okay. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Anders. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. President.

Thank you, Council Davila, Council Hurst.

Yeah, Danny, I just want to say I appreciate your investment in the city of Springfield. You have rehabbed a number of dilapidated commercial buildings throughout the city. I appreciate the work that you've done in terms of beautifying our city, and I'm sure this will do what your other properties have done. And, you know, I can't thank you enough and look forward to supporting this project.

Thank you, Councilor.

Okay, any opposition to item number one? Sorry, Madam President. I'm sorry, Councilor, I don't see your hand raised.

Oh, I'm sorry. It was raised, I apologize.

Oh, that's okay.

If I may?

Absolutely.

Thank you. So Danny came to the Indian Orchard Citizens Council. He reached out to us and did present his plan. And I believe that we were able to be supportive of it. The council voted to support the project, which is, I think, going to be a positive for Boston Road. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, Councilor Govan. Seeing that there's no other speakers on this item, I will now close the city council hearing. Any deliberation from councillors? Seeing none, Madam Clerk, please call the roll on the item.

On approval, Councillor Santanello.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Martin.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Perez. Absent, Councillor Brown.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Govan. Yes. Yes, Councillor Walsh. Yes. Yes, Councillor Hurst.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Davila.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Fenton.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Delgado. Absent? Councillor Click-Bruce.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Edwards.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Whitfield.

Yes. Item approved. Councillor Santanello on the reasons. Councillor, can you turn on your mic, please? That's okay.

Can you hear me now? The specific site is an appropriate location for such a use, structure, or condition. The use as developed will not adversely affect the neighborhood. Adequate and appropriate facilities will be provided for the proper operation of the proposed use. To incorporate the planning staff analysis into the decision at the basis of the findings.

Thank you, Councillor Santonello. Madam Clerk, please call the roll on the reasons.

On approval of the reasons, Councillor Santanello.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Martin.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Perez. Absent, Councillor Brown.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Govan. Yes. Yes, Councillor Walsh. Yes. Yes, Councillor Hurst.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Davila.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Fenton.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Delgado. Absent, Councillor Click-Bruce.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Edwards.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Whitfield. Yes.

It's approved. Congratulations, Andy. Welcome.

Madam Clerk, please call the next item on the agenda. Item 2 is 136 Nursery Street and a portion of 163-165 Stafford Street Motor Vehicle Repairs.

Please state your name and address for the record.

My name is Misael Colon. Good evening. Good evening. Address for the record? 136 Nursery Street.

Okay, you have the floor.

Excuse me? You have the floor. You can tell us what you want to do with the property. Well, I requested a special permit for auto repair. I've been there established already nine years.

Is that all you want to say? You've been there nine years doing what? You want to give us a little background on the property?

Dear members of the city council, Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. My name is Misal Colón. I am here to request a special permit for Dino's Auto Repair Shop. This business will continue to provide our community with reliable and affordable options for everyday vehicle maintenance. In addition, delivering quality service for local residents, the shop will create new jobs and enhance transportation for safety in our area. I respectfully ask for your support in approving this special permit so we can continue to bring this valuable service to our community. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Thank you, sir. One moment. Is there anyone else here to speak in favor of this item? Seeing none, Council Brown?

I just have a point of information for the petitioner. Would it be helpful to have maybe one of our Latino counselors ask you questions? Or are you able? Is it okay? Yes, it's okay. Okay. So have you had the actual, you've been open doing questions car repairs?

Yes.

For nine years?

Yes.

So this permit is to do what you're saying? You're petitioning?

Because it was a permit there before with the owner, the previous owner of the property. But they sell their property to some new owners now. So it's more business there. So everybody got to take their own special permit.

Maybe somebody can, I'll yield the floor, maybe someone can.

Phil's gonna clarify what this request is.

So basically this, The business over there, from my understanding, was cited by code because there was an existing special permit there, but it was issued to a different petitioner. So this gentleman needs to come in and amend the special permit to change that original name to his name for this particular use at this location. It's just amending the existing special permit that was granted back in 2010.

And how long was this gap, this discrepancy, as far as a different owner?

I'm not 100% sure. I just know when they come to my counter because they've been cited by code that they need to amend the existing special permit. So I don't know how long he was in business prior to needing that. Unfortunately, this happens a lot when Motor vehicle repair shops or used car lots are sold. A lot of the people buying them don't check the special permit that it's issued to one person and they come in and start running it. It's only after they're there and running it and then get visited by code do they realize that the special permit needs to be amended.

Yeah, because we received as a council body some discrepancies, and I was just curious, was he there, present, and as far as the different discrepancies?

I believe he was operating there and then cited by code that he needed to amend the special permit. So that's when I come in and they start the process to do that.

Okay, thank you. Any other questions, Council Member? I'll probably maybe yield to my colleagues for a minute, but I just know we received something saying there was discrepancy as far as cars and things like that in the driveway and just certain issues over there. I would just still recommend

that that would be something that you know you clean up especially with the certain violations because we did have some people who did complain about it the only thing counselor just to jump in on that the only thing that i did notice when visiting the site overall the site was being pretty well maintained um the the side street of nursery street i did notice that there were you know that's technically the public way including the turnaround at the end I did notice a number of vehicles being stored there as well as a tow truck. Those vehicles need to be removed and put onto the site. Nursery Street cannot be used as an extension of the business. So that's one thing that is actually on the existing special permit that specifically says you can't use Nursery Street. So I would just caution the petitioner that those cars currently being parked on Nursery Street need to be moved onto the site, including the tow truck that was being parked there.

Those cars are not for my business. That's from the front locations. I'm in the rear.

Okay, well, I'll have to have code go out as well and cite them because that nursery street did appear to be being used as part of the business, and that can't happen.

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, Councilor Brown. Councilor Fenton?

Thank you, Madam President. I just want to report to the council that this gentleman did appear before the Hungry Hill Neighborhood Council in April, and they didn't have any objections to this. This is on the fringes of the border between Lower Liberty and Hungry Hill. It's actually not in my district, even though it's in Hungry Hill. This is in Councillor Perez's district. I don't believe Councillor Perez is with us tonight, is she, Madam President? She's not. And we've received this letter, sir, from one of your neighbors, Mr. Miguel Calderon. And he's raised quite a few issues here about work and parking taking place in the right-of-way. That's of concern to him. I know that those issues did not come up at the neighborhood council meeting. So it would be my inclination, Madam President, without Councillor Perez here to speak on behalf of her district, that we continue this matter to our next hearings meeting. So I would make a motion that we continue this matter to our next hearings meeting in June.

Motion made to continue this item until our next meeting in June by Councillor Fenton, seconded by Councillor Edwards. Any discussion on the motion? Councillor Davila, did you? Or you were seconding? Oh, Phil?

Good evening, Phil. How many businesses are in this building?

I guess I don't know. I'm going to have to clarify that. I don't know. I thought this gentleman was the one who was applying for the special permit. So if there's multiple businesses there, I'm going to have to have Code go out and clarify that. I don't know at this point.

Okay. All right. Thank you, Phil. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, Councillor Davila. Any other comments? I just wanted to ask a question to attorney Shay, because we didn't hear the opposition and I don't know if we are supposed to hear the opposition before we do send this to continue this item. So we didn't hear the opposition on this hearing. We only heard the proponents, but it was a motion to continue. Are we supposed to hear the opposition before we vote on the continuance or no?

On the top of my head, I think if you're going to continue the hearing, I would think the opposition should have had a chance to speak. Are they here?

We just have a letter that I don't know. I haven't asked if there's opposition yet, but we have a letter that I wanted to read into the record.

So that's all you have from the opposition? Yes. I would read the letter into the record to cover that, and then you could continue. Is that what you want to do?

Yes.

Okay. Yeah, I'd read the letter in so that you've covered that base and then continue it.

Councillor Fenton?

And if it's okay with you, Madam President, I'd prefer if you'd be willing to defer the vote on my motion until you see if there's anybody else here to speak tonight. Just in case there's someone here, we give them a chance.

Okay. Okay, do you want to withdraw it and then we'll redo it?

Sure.

Okay.

Withdrawn.

Okay. Do we need a second for the withdrawal?

No.

No? Okay. It's been withdrawn. The motion has been withdrawn by Councilor Fenton. Is there anyone else in here to speak in favor of this petitioner? Anyone here in opposition of this petitioner? We do have a letter that our clerk will read And to the record, there's opposition. We got it on, like, May 15th, but it wasn't circulated.

The letter...

I'll defer to you, Madam President, but I think us just announcing that it is going to be into the record might be sufficient as opposed to having the clerk read this entire letter, which is three pages long.

Three pages long? Okay, everybody wants to read it on their own? All right. So...

Motion to continue, Madam President.

All right. So we have a letter of opposition that will not be read into the record, but we can all read it on our own. And motion made by Councilor Fenton to continue and seconded by Councilor Edwards. And did you want to talk on the motion, Councilor Edwards? Okay.

On the motion. Actually, just a comment. I respectfully ask my colleagues to Google 136 Nursery Street, I did just now. The visual should give you something to consider. That's all. Just as we're going, we'll take a vote on it, continuing it, but as you do your due diligence, simply Google the site, because as you know, when you Google a site in the city, it'll give you a picture. Enough said.

Do you know how recent the picture is? Okay. What'd you say?

I apologize. We typically will, when we, an address will pull up, constituents call, we'll Google it. They give you a visual of the site. I don't want to comment about what I saw, but in the context of the letter, compared what I saw just now when I Googled the site. Everybody makes their own judgments. And I'll remind people once again, I've said it multiple times, these votes don't have to be unanimous. Vote your conscious. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Edwards. Any other discussion on the motion? Seeing none, Madam Clerk, please call the roll on the motion to continue.

On the motion to continue, Councillor Santanello.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Martin.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Perez. Absent, Councillor Brown.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Govan. Yes. Yes, Councillor Walsh.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Hurst.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Davila.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Fenton. Yes. Yes, Councillor Delgado. Absent, Councillor Click-Bruce. Yes. Yes, Councillor Edwards.

yes yes counselor whitfield yes motion to continue approved we will have you back on june 22nd after we've done some more due diligence and we will go back through this process again okay thank you hey madam clerk please call the next item on the agenda

Next item is a zone change for 376-378 Main Street in Indian Orchard from Residency to Commercial P. I just want to make counselors aware that this is a zone change.

This is not a special permit that we have to go over every detail. Special permits will have to come back before us. This is simply a zone change. We are going to discuss the zone change, but if we get too far and too deep into the conversation, I will stop the conversation and remind us that this is a zone change. Thank you. Please state your name and address for the record.

Thank you, Madam President. Jim Ferreira, 33 Palmyra Street, Springfield, Mass.

All right, you have four.

Thank you, Madam President. Counselors, before you this evening is a zone change from Residence C to Commercial P at 376 Main Street-378 Main Street in the Orchard. Before you this evening... in your packets is the staffing analysis from the Planning and Economic Development Office, for which we have unanimous support from the neighborhood council. We met with the neighborhood council a few months ago. We have their letter of support, which is right here, signed by Zayda Govan. We have the planning department recommendation from the planning department is recommending the zone change from residency to commercial P. We have the unanimous support of the planning board. They met last month and supported the zone change request. We have a petition. here signed by 35 residents from Main Street and Quebec Street within the direct abutters to the property, agreeing that this is an appropriate use and zone for commercial parking. For about two years, this property has been vacant. We are gonna bring in some economic development with this area. We're looking to put in a small open-air restaurant that would service the neighborhood. We need commercial parking for that. Right now, there is a tight parking situation on Quebec Street. This will open it up and will alleviate Some of that concern, the lot will be paved. There will be an appropriate buffer, a 10-foot buffer. Originally, we were only required to do a 7-foot buffer, but we did make some accommodations for one of the landowners that is next door. So we expanded the buffer to 10 feet. We are going to have it properly paved and lined and meet all the regulations. We do have the petitioner here with us to answer any questions that you may have.

Thank you. Are there anyone else to speak in favor of this item? Seeing none, any questions from counselors? Yep. Counselor Santanello? Yeah.

Mr. Ferrara, this will actually add more spaces for parking in the area.

Microphone?

Sorry. Councilor? Yeah. Okay. Can I ask that question? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So, Councilor, what will happen is that, you know, instead of having the restaurant, you know, have on-street parking on either Main or Quebec Street, these would allow the customers of the restaurant to actually pull in and not take up residential spaces on Quebec Street and Main Street where people may be parking residentially. So that's an added benefit for the neighborhood. Sure.

Thank you, Councillor Santanello. Any other comments from councillors? Councillor Brown?

Thank you, Jimmy. Always a pleasure. Always do an excellent job. Do you know what kind of food?

So, from what I understand... Councillor, don't, don't, don't, don't... No, I'm just joking. LAUGHTER

From what I understand, it's going to be a different type of eclectic mix of different broasted chickens and different types of meats and different grab-and-go sandwiches. So it's going to be really grab-and-go. There's going to be very limited seating inside the restaurant, and most of it will be catering to to-go orders and Uber Eats and DoorDash and people coming and grabbing a quick bite and taking it to go.

I'm excited. I know we definitely need more places, more selections. I've seen the place down there. It looked beautiful. I'm excited. I definitely will be supporting it. Thank you.

Thank you, Councilor Brown. Any other? Councilor Govan. All right. Thank you. Are there any opposition to this zone change? Sure. Can you come to the mic and state your name and address for the record?

Good evening, councillors. My name is Darius Winklewoods. I believe I might have sent you guys all an email. And here I am to repeat it one more time. They're asking to put a commercial parking lot in between residential zone. That's always been a residential zone. All the people that live there, all they want is quiet and enjoyment of their properties. When you put a restaurant in the middle of it with a parking lot, there will be customers that will drive cars. Those cars will have loud stereos, loud mufflers. I have people that rent from me and they sleep during the day. Now, you cannot stop anybody from playing any kind of music during the day, but they will. And this is right next door to me. Also, that street is a private way If you guys go down this street, you will notice it's not regular size streets. It's smaller than regular size streets. There's people fighting over parking spots now. When you put in more customers, more cars, where are they gonna park? So when my customers come to me and ask me, where is my quiet and enjoyment when I'm renting from your apartment, what should I say? These guys allowed this commercial property to be there, and they're allowed to be noisy. But you're trying to get some rest, as quiet as enjoyment. It's in a contract of Massachusetts tenants. Any tenant has that in their contract. It's Massachusetts law. There's kids playing on the street all the time, playing basketball. Drive down the street after 2 p.m. They're playing on the streets, literally. When you channel commercial traffic through there, there is a very good chance for potential of something bad going. Do you guys want that? So when I lose customers, I don't have anybody to rent to. How am I gonna pay your taxes? Because you guys charge me taxes, right? And I pay them every year. But when I lose customers, how am I gonna pay your taxes to keep your city up and going? I totally understand that they want to have a restaurant. I'm not against the restaurant. They can have the restaurant on Main Street. That's zoned for that, and I'm okay with that. But when you smack a commercial lot in the back of it where everybody is residential and all they want is peace and quiet, that's uncalled for. I tried to raise this up at the other meeting, and they couldn't hear it. They didn't want to hear it. They just voted. They said, it's a potential. It can happen, so we vote yes. But I totally disagree with this. If they want to have a restaurant, have them park in the front where it's Main Street. I totally understand. Busy street, that's where cars go. That's fine by me. But don't put the parking lot on a little leeway back street called Quebec. It's private way where people want to sleep and get their rest. And they also said they signed, 35 people signed The petition to agree to this? I want to know if the closest people to this lot actually signed this petition, because I did not. The people next door to me, they told me they didn't sign it. I'm sure there's another person in line here that can tell you that he didn't sign either. Whether he's going to speak or not, that's up to him. But if there's the rest of the people down the street, which they don't care because they have another exit way, they might have signed it. Sure, that's possible. But did the closest people to the business that are going to be affected the most, did they sign yes? I don't think so. So I ask you, please do not allow this to go. If they want to have a restaurant, let them have a restaurant in the front. have added, but don't send commercial traffic down this street, please. Thank you, and that's it.

Thank you. Any others to speak in opposition of this zone change from residency to commercial P? Please state your name and address for the record.

So my name is Eddie Ramos, and I'm 28 Lakeview out in Ludlow, but my parents own 5860 Quebec Street, which is kind of right across the street there. And I just wanted to voice some of the same issues. It's a really tight street. Bringing in more traffic is gonna be unsafe to the people there. It's already kind of tough to navigate that street on a good day. If you bring in Uber Eats and all that kind of stuff and all that to and from, it's gonna be even harder. I understand that we need to redevelop Main Street, but let's redevelop Main Street and leave Quebec Street alone. It's kind of just a super wide driveway. Thank you.

Thank you. Any others? Opposition? Counselors? Counselor Davila? Did you raise your hand?

Thank you, Madam President. I just have a question for the two gentlemen that just spoke, if I may. The two opposition?

Can you both join the mic? The two opponents? Yeah.

Good evening. Thank you for joining us, and thank you for giving us your perspective and your concerns. But I have a question for both of you, the same question for both of you. Do you both live in that neighborhood?

So I don't live in that neighborhood, but I pay taxes in that neighborhood, and I maintain properties in that neighborhood, and I kind of present the question.

Before we get ahead of the car here, you don't live in the neighborhood. You pay taxes. How do you pay taxes?

I pay taxes to the city of Springfield.

Do you own? What's your direct connection to the neighborhood is what I'm asking.

So we own property in the neighborhood.

You own commercial property?

No, we own residential property.

Residential property. Okay. Whereabouts from that look from 376, 370 Main Street, you own property, if I may ask?

So if you're looking out of the back where they want to put the parking lot, I'm across the street.

What street is that, sir?

Quebec Street.

I'm sorry?

Quebec Street.

Quebec Street. Okay. Quebec. Quebec?

Yeah.

Okay, thank you, sir. And the other gentleman, I'm sorry, I didn't catch your name. Same question for you, sir.

Sure. Darius Winkowitz. Nice to meet you. I don't live in Quebec Street, but I do live in a city of Springfield.

Well, you don't live in that neighborhood. What's that? You don't live in the neighborhood where the location's been proposed.

Well, I do not live in that specific street.

Okay, so what's your direct connection to that neighborhood?

What's my direct connection to that neighborhood? Yes, sir. I own properties in that neighborhood. I've been citizen of this city for the last 35 years.

That's fine.

I reside and I pay multiple taxes to the city of Springfield.

I understand that, sir. My question is succinct. Your connection to the neighborhood. So you have, same question. Do you have commercial, residential property you own? I'm trying to understand what's your connection to the neighborhood.

What is the actual relevance, my connection? If I pay taxes and I own a property in the city of Springfield, What is your question trying to gear at? I'm trying to understand this.

Sir, the purpose of my question is not to engage in a debate with you. It's to help me gather information. Okay. Okay, so I will ask you to please, if you may, please. If you don't want to answer, that's fine. Your connection, because if I'm not mistaken, we were told that the neighborhood council is in agreement with this. So I'm trying to understand your perspective.

Okay.

Okay, so you don't live in the neighborhood. You already say that. You have commercial property. So I'm asking, is it, Is it a residential property like the other gentleman? It is.

It's a residential property right next door, literally right next door to this property.

Very well. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, Councillor Davila. Any other comments? Councillor Brown?

Yeah, I just had a quick question for the opponent. I live in an area where they have... They had a nightclub and a restaurant right downstairs from me. Is it more the noise or the traffic? You're talking about a restaurant. What is it? The noise or the traffic?

It's both. It's noise, traffic. It's both. It's safety. The street is not even proper size street to be public way. It's a private way that was taken up by city of Springfield.

Yeah. If I could add, it's just, it's a very narrow street already and you have residents parking on both sides of that street. You can only get down going one way most of the time.

Okay. And I know as far as how, um, my landlord alleviates some of the, I mean the noise totally. is do you have the triple pane argon gas windows? And what that does is act like an insulator that totally takes out the sound. What kind of windows are on there?

Okay. The units has been built in 2007 up to code by the city of Springfield that allowed it to be built. Whether it's a three pane or two pane, If there is a loud stereo producing large amounts of decibels, no matter what pane of window you apply, it will not stop that.

Well, no, why I ask is because in my youth I used to do presentations about the actual insulation of noise quality of the different windows. So I would just also look to do that. It helps energy efficiency and it does a lot when it comes to the noise insulation. And then I know they plan on doing something as far as the reconstruction over there to alleviate some of that? Maybe if they do some signage or something like that, do you think that might help?

To alleviate the safety concern with the traffic?

Yeah, you know, like slow, you know, like sometimes in a certain area. So say where I'm at, they have, they actually even opened up another restaurant, Eye Candy's or whatever, I think that's what they call it, right there. And they just have, you know, they have signage. It really isn't, you know, most of the people in the area, I think they're used to the convenience seat. of having the actual restaurant it's not i'm just wondering maybe if signage might help in saying like slow or changing some of the signage or something like that changing the one way to another you know just maybe you know working with some of you guys as far as the signage and thing do you think that might help

short of making the street a one way and having everybody do the loop instead of being able to go out both ways, even that's gonna be tight. Like it's a densely populated street, right? It's mostly two families, it's two or three units, it's already tight parking, right? So if you have people on both sides, you can't really get down the street and then you add traffic for a restaurant coming in through the back. Like if we were coming in through the front, I don't think we would be having the same issue, but the fact that we're coming in through the back on a street that's already crowded, is a safety issue. Sorry, I don't want to cut you off, but even to go there just to fix anything or cut the grass or do any of that stuff, it's already crowded. You know what I mean? And to add traffic to that is unsafe.

And really, what I would just still add, even if you have some traffic concerns, I would revisit the neighborhood council. I know they have C3. If there's heavy traffic congestion, you can always reach out to the C3 police. They'll always put someone over there to address any of that. I would always recommend also... you know, investing in some of the installation stuff. But I live in a place that's even more, a bigger restaurant than what they're petitioning to do. And I live right upstairs from it, and it hasn't been an issue. So I would really just look for the actual petitioners to work with you guys. you know, to really have a relationship with them. I'm always for good neighbors. I'm always for good neighbors. So it's never over. I think it's a good idea, but it's never over. If you ever see anything, we're here, you know, and we will work with you. But thank you for coming in and at least voicing your concerns.

If I just may add one thing.

No, sir, because we have to get through this meeting. and he didn't ask the question, you have to be asked the question. And Councilor Govan does have her hand raised, and I do want to give her an opportunity in case she has questions for you, because this is the time to ask opposition questions, and her hand is raised. Thank you. Councilor Govan.

Thank you, Madam President. This issue actually did come up at the neighborhood council meeting. These gentlemen weren't there that day, but we did talk about it. And I just want to remind everyone that this is the zone change only, as you said, Madam President. And what we'll be able to do is when and if they come back for the special permit for the parking, then that's when we can talk about special considerations. We did ask the restaurant owner about the times because, you know, people were concerned about it being late open, it being open late rather, and the noise around it because that is a residential neighborhood. And we came to a conclusion and the neighborhood council, as I said, voted for it. And Miss Attorney Ferreira has the letter that we sent him voting for it. So, you know, right now this is a very preliminary step. And I think that we could move forward and find ways to, as Councilor Brown said, you know, be neighborly and continue to work together because this is a, you know, a benefit to the community. So I want to not block anything necessarily. And currently, as one of the gentlemen said, you know, there's like fights for parking spaces. This would be a parking lot so people in the community, when the restaurant is closed, they could have parking spaces that are not on the street. And not necessarily congesting the street that way. So I think this is a plus for the neighborhood. And I understand, you know, the gentleman's concerns. But we did have the neighborhood council meeting. I don't know if you were aware of it or not. You don't live in the neighborhood, so maybe not, and I apologize for that. But I think this is just something we did vote for, and I think it's something beneficial. And like I said, it's very preliminary, so we have opportunities to make, you know, special conditions. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, Councilor Govan. I just want to clarify that we do not have to come back for a special permit for this particular property because it's already permitted for a restaurant. Is that accurate, Phil?

Well, there's two different issues. The front part of the property is zoned Business A, which allows a restaurant, and it's considered a pre-existing business. So the rear of the property is the property that zoned Residence C. That's the portion of the property they're trying to get rezoned to Commercial P. But once the zoning is passed, there is no special permit requirement for the parking. The plans that have been submitted will need to be reviewed and approved by DPW for drainage and all that, but the City Council There is no special permit, so... Not even for the restaurant piece?

No. Okay.

No.

Well, my apologies. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, Councilor Govan. Councilor... Oh, Phil?

Councilor Edwards? Just, Phil, as a point of clarification, regardless of whether or not we approve this zone change, the restaurant legally can and will operate The parking that they are attempting by doing a zone change on the backside would alleviate on street parking or make it a little bit better. And that's at least that's what was presented. But we if we deny this, then the restaurant still operates. but there is no relief of traffic or parking on the front because it is illegally operational regardless, correct?

Correct. The restaurant is going to move forward regardless of what we do tonight.

The restaurant is going to operate. If we approve this, then the restaurant gets to alleviate some of the off-stream stress of parking by allowing people to park with a 10-foot buffer on the backside, correct?

Right, and again, the buffer is required under zoning for Commercial P. You're required a 10-foot buffer along both sides of the property that abut the residential zone.

Okay, thank you, sir.

Thank you, Councilor Edwards, for the clarification. You may be seated, sir. We have 10 minutes for the proponents if you wanted to give some more information. Before that, I'm gonna ask Councilor Walsh, I think you're the longest standing member on the City Council to take my position for a minute. I just don't wanna recess and I have to leave myself. Oh, you're the longest? Oh, I'm sorry. You guys can fight over who wants to take this over just for like two minutes. Thank you.

Okay, so as the council president said, 10 minutes for opponents and proponents.

Thank you, Madam President. Just for the record, Madam President, I'd like to enter into the record the abutters that had signed off the petition. And furthermore, I just would like to elaborate a little bit more with regards to what is being asked here this evening. And we're willing to work with the two people that objected to this, and we have. And moving forward, I think it's critically important to understand that we're taking spots off of the street and putting them into a parking lot. So this would alleviate congestion and would provide more opportunity for people, his renters, to park on the street. So I think that it allows for more opportunities for parking, for on-street parking. It takes time. the congestion away from Quebec and Main Street, as well as there's another property right next door, an auto body shop that is also commercial P. So this is not unique to the neighborhood. And so we're simply asking, thank you, we're simply asking that the council consider this And we will continue to work with the neighborhood council and to the abutters. And for the most part, we are here to answer any other questions that the council may have.

Thank you. Any questions? I have a question. No, you can't speak now. I have a question. Councilor Whitfield.

Thank you, Councilor Walsh. I don't know what you just said, but I had questions when I was standing up there. And one of the questions was, as far as parking goes, would you allow residents to park in the parking lot when the restaurant is closed and also if there's, like, snow?

Yeah, that's absolutely, we'd be more than willing to work something out. Obviously, the restaurant is not gonna be open all hours of the night. It is not a, it's not gonna have an entertainment license. This is a grab and go, breakfast, lunch, dinner type of place. And so there's gonna be limited seating. Of course we'd be willing to work with the neighborhood on a parking situation. you know, for snow and emergencies. We're good neighbors, and we tend to be.

The other question that I have about the parcel itself, you said it's vacant, and it's been vacant for some time.

It's been vacant for two years. Right now, it is a dirt lot. As part of this, we would be required to pave it. We would line it. We would have a buffer. We would have some lighting. So we would spend quite a bit of money in that particular area to bring it up to the standards and, again, to the DPW will have its review and we will follow all the regulations and guidelines for that.

Thank you. And then my final comment is I eat at Taste of Traditions on Main Street in Indian Orchard, and it's also a restaurant. And there's no off-street parking, and sometimes it's very difficult to find parking on Main Street. And that really hurts the restaurant owners or business owners of the community. So I think that the more parking that we can find for restaurants, the better. And that's it, Counselor.

Thank you, Madam Counsel, President. Anyone else from proponents wishing to speak? That closes that part. Now the opponents have 10 minutes to reply. Anyone who is opposed wishing to come forward and speak? And again, state your name and address.

Darius Winkowitz, 57 Quebec Street, Springfield, Mass. So let's look at it what it really is. There's been a restaurant there before. They didn't require parking lots. They didn't require any special changes. Why? Good question, right? Then the restaurant went away. It's been vacant for two years. Now we want special changes. We have an auto body shop that functions under commercial P. Maybe what we're looking to do is run this restaurant for six months and turning into a commercial P lot, sell it to somebody, sell some cars on it. It sounds good. They're going to alleviate some parking. I'm not sure how that's going to work out. If they're looking to get customers, where are they going to park them? Where are they going to park them? If you look at the plans, how many parking spots will there be? Five. There's at least six or seven cars on that street where I live now. If they all park in those five spaces, where are the customers going to park? Maybe this is just a zone change so they can sell it to the auto body shop or whoever is running some other commercial business. Is this where business should be in a residential area? I mean, honestly. Is this where business belongs? Noise, racket. We just heard the other guy not getting his permit because he was putting his business all over the streets. So when you allow these guys to have commercial pee, that's what they're gonna do. They're gonna put their business all over my street that's already congested as it is. Is this a logical thing to do? And when you do that, something goes down this street and hits a child, who's gonna be responsible? Anybody wants to take credit for that one? It's the people that allow it to be there will be responsible. You may not think it now, but when you visit the big guy upstairs, this is what you're going to have to answer to, whether you like it or not, because he does exist. And not a preacher to preach to you guys, but I'm telling you, safety is number one concern. That street is small. There should be no commercial traffic. And they're saying they're going to elevate parking spots when they have five and there's seven cars in front of my street. Where is that customer going to park? Where? In which spots? But I think it's just a switch. You switch to commercial P, sell it as a commercial property, somebody will come and, I don't know, have a car dealership, car repair place. I don't know what they're going to do. Right?

Thank you, sir. Council President has a question.

I have more of a comment. We can always live in the what ifs. Right? We can what if to death. We can say what if it doesn't happen? What if a kid doesn't get hit? What if it does alleviate parking? We can operate in the what ifs, but we're operating in the facts that we have presented in front of us. One thing that you did mention was parking for the residents. The question that I asked was if there's a snowstorm and the private way needs to be cleaned, would the residents be able to park there? I also asked would the residents be able to park there after or off business hours? Not all day, to take parking spots from the customers. But if the restaurant is closed, could residents park there along with their guests? If there's no parking right now, then nobody can visit. Or they're parking on Main Street and they're taking up parking spaces for the businesses that are on Main Street. They're taking up their parking spaces so the businesses on Main Street are suffering. I go to Indian Orchard Main Street a lot. And it has always been a problem with parking. And in my opinion, this will alleviate some of the parking. It will give residents the opportunity to park somewhere else in a snowstorm. So the street, the private way can get clean. Now, that is a way to create safety for the residents on the street. And it will help the business keep customers, maybe the other restaurant closed because they didn't have parking. If we want to operate in the what ifs, that could be one of the concerns that happened. They couldn't park their customers. And so I will be supporting this zone change for those reasons. Thank you, Councilor Walsh.

Thank you, Madam President. Madam President, there are three minutes left for anyone to speak in opposition. Anyone else want to speak? You have three minutes.

that means there's going to be a consistent sort of flow of traffic in and out of that parking lot. And that street is, like, I don't know how to stress this enough if you've never driven down that street, it's very narrow. It can't support the traffic. So unless, like, you're willing to adhere to the counselor's plan and make it a one-way and block two-way traffic down that street, it's going to be unsafe to have traffic flow down that street. Right? I get that Main Street needs parking. I understand that. But putting it on a street that doesn't fit two cars down it is not the answer. There needs to be a better place for it if it's needed. Because it's unsafe where it is. Thank you, sir. Yeah.

Okay. That closes that portion of the hearing. Counselor President, did you want to come back up? Okay. Do any of the counselors want to make a comment before we vote on this? Counselor Hurst.

I just want to acknowledge that I think these two gentlemen raised some very serious concerns. I drive by that street regularly, and it's extremely tight. And the grab and go concept doesn't lend itself to making things safe. It actually lends itself to having a lot of people provided that folks like the restaurant coming in and out regularly. And there are houses right next door to where this lot is at. And so while I agree that any of these businesses on Main Street probably could use some additional parking, I don't think it's fair for the residents that live there to have to deal with what is getting ready to occur. So those are just my thoughts, especially looking at the picture and having driven down or drive by the street regularly. It just doesn't seem like a good fit. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, Counselor Hurst. Any other counselors have a question or a comment? Counselor Fenton?

Thank you, Madam President. I just wanted to clarify through Phil, if you wouldn't mind, Mr. Dromey, there were some statements that would, I think, cause a reasonable person to be concerned that were made by some of the abutters, and they were raising concern over possibly a bait and switch. Let's secure this commercial P zone and then potentially introduce some more intrusive uses in the future. And I just want to make sure that the public is aware and if you could verify for me that when you rezone to commercial P, The only thing that can be done in that zone is parking. Not even structures can be constructed. Is that right? Correct.

Okay.

So I want to make sure that we assuage the public of that fear because that is not something that could happen here.

Especially the idea of used car lots or motor vehicle repairs. Absolutely not.

They would be completely prohibited in this commercial P zone.

As you mentioned, that's why commercial P is more of a transitional zone that you can use it for parking, but even the building itself could not be expanded onto the commercial portion of that property.

That's right. And more broadly, Madam President, the existing zone is Residence C, which allows for a high-intensity residential use to go on this property as of right. If we were to deny this zone change, the petitioner would be left with a residency zone property that would allow for a dwelling of more than a three-family or a four-family. It could go even larger. And based on the average vehicle trips for a family that's occupying, based on normal occupancy and rental rates, I think that you'd see a more invasive use of public parking resources and on-street parking if there was such a congregate housing development to be built there. So I see this as reducing the intensity of the potential use by going from Residence C to Commercial P. I'd feel differently if we were talking about going to Business B or Business A, and we had some of those real concerns that the abutters addressed earlier about potential other uses in the future. But in this case, I feel that this is a reduction in intensity going from Res C to Commercial P, and I intend to support it tonight.

Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Fenton. Any other councillors? If not, I will close the hearing.

I'm sorry, I have my...

I'm sorry, did you have your hand up? Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see you. You forgot about me. I was too busy looking the other way. Yes, Councilor Govan.

Thank you, Madam Chair. So I agree with what the councilors just said. And I hear Councilor Hurst's concern as well as the abutter's concern. They don't live in the neighborhood, so maybe they weren't, you know, they don't see the daily. drive that happens on that street that is a small street i agree i really like the idea or about thinking about possibly making it a one way i'm not sure if the neighbors would even want that um but i agree that you know doing something like this improving that lot right there because right now it's just a dirt spot where People may or may not park. I'm not sure if they do or not. But they're going to improve it by making it look better, making it more useful. And as was said, when the restaurant is closed, the abutters and the people that live there could potentially park their cars off the street to make the street a little bit less congested. So I think I'm in agreement with what everyone else said and what our board voted on. So I just want us to... continue that and maybe continue having conversations about this. I don't want the gentleman to go away and think that it's a done deal. We could still keep talking about it, and if it's something that, you know, is doable, we could potentially think about making it a one-way if that's going to help anything. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Councilor Havad. Any other councilors? That closes the hearing. City Clerk, could you please confirm how many votes are needed for a zone change?

For a zone change, you'd need seven.

Okay, can you please call the roll?

Nine. Nine.

Yes, can you please call the roll?

Councilor, on approval of the zone change, Councilor Santanello.

Yes.

Yes, Councilor Martin.

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Perez absent. Councillor Brown?

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Govan? Yes. Yes, Councillor Whitfield?

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Hurst?

No.

No, Councillor Davila?

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Fenton?

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Delgado absent. Councillor Klick-Bruce?

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Edwards?

Yes.

Yes, Councillor Walsh.

Yes, more than sufficient. The sound change passes. And the gavel passes.

Madam Clerk, are there any more items on the agenda?

There are not.

All right. Seeing none, this meeting is adjourned. We do have a budget vote on Thursday. the 28th. Let me just look at the time real quick before you all walk out. That is going to be at five o'clock. Thank you.