Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

by Pastor Bell. Then we're going to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. If y'all would like to join us, it'd be appreciated.

It's now a hands-on prayer. Eternal God, I have no father. We thank you for this day and hour. We thank you, Lord, for the work of the people in the plan of commission. We ask you, God, to be with those who are not with us today. We thank you for the commissioners on travel, with work, and other things, with family. So have them, Lord, have safe travels. But be with us down the road as we plan and work Thank you, Pastor Bell. See, we already did a quorum, so past that.

And any additions or deletions to the previous meeting's minutes? Seeing none, entertain a motion to approve the minutes of June 3, as long as that date's right. So moved. DAVID BURRAGE. Thank you, sir. I'll second it if nobody else will. OK. All right. All vote, please. We had no screen. That's right. All right. Can we take a roll call vote tonight, please? Well, mine's not working.

Mr. Wood?

I'll abstain since I was not here, although I did review the video.

Mr. Grinnell? Aye. Mr. Phelps?

Aye.

Dr. Bell? Aye. Mr. Bullock?

So it's 3-2. Motion passed. And Mrs. Pomato for a plan and update.

Yes, sir. Thank you. I was going to first start because I think there had been some confusion. We had received word in our office today that the public was expecting the comp plan work session tonight to include economic development. That is not the case. That is scheduled for the July 15th meeting. So I just wanted to let anyone know who's here this evening that was interested in that work session. That'll be on July 15th. For your next meeting that is scheduled for July 15th and right now all we have scheduled is that work session for economic development and tourism and the introduction chapter of the comp plan. If that changes I'll certainly keep you updated.

DAVID BURRAGE. Ma'am, I'd like to add a work session on Crossroads Tech Center for the 15th, please. CHRISTIE WOOD.

OK. DAVID BURRAGE.

To the agenda. Any objections to this? Seeing none, OK. We will add it then.

Yes, sir. I'll add that. And then the only other announcements that I had is that there is a community meeting that is scheduled. This is for what's currently just identified as the Kipps property rezoning. This is approximately 92 acres. Currently zoned rural, they're requesting a planned development housing three designation to create 190 single-family detached homes. This property is located just south of Route 3 and just west of the old Battlefield Country Store, and actually would lie very close to a project that was approved not very long ago, you may recall, called Andorra Oaks. So that community meeting is scheduled for Thursday, June 25th at 6 o'clock. It'll be held at the Wilderness Elementary School, and that property is located in the Chancellor Voting District. And that concludes my announcement, sir.

Okay. Reports of standing committees. Mike, you are gone.

The Transportation Committee was actually changed, so it's tomorrow night. So I'll have an update at our next meeting.

Okay. Thank you, sir. Under unfinished business, I'd just like to mention I spoke with Kimberly today. And in my neighborhood, Battlefield District, looks like a lot of people read Next Door. And the Kipps property appeared posted on Next Door. And I got two phone calls and one email. And I wasn't even aware of the project yet, but yet it got posted to Nextdoor from our community website. So I'm trying to avoid this in the future. So when something before it gets posted, even though it's not my district, as chancellor district, I believe, I was getting phone calls. And they were to the tune of, what, more houses? And I don't know. I hadn't seen it. So hopefully, before we get posted on any social media, we'll get a notice saying this application or inquiry is going to be posted. So you don't have to act like such a dumb bunny when you get a call.

Yes, sir, and just for the Planning Commission members to note, currently our process had been only sending that notice to the Planning Commissioner and the board member whose district it was in, and then we posted it on the website, and then it's pushed out through the social media platforms, and of course I make announcements at the Planning Commission meeting, but I think going forward, we will just, if it's okay with everybody, we'll just send it to the entire Planning Commission via email when we receive them.

I think that would help. Thank you, ma'am. OK, we're at public hearings already. SUP 26-0001. Paulette, do you want to tell us the procedure for public? Well, are we going to do the presentation first, then?

We'll do the presentation first, and then I'll alert the citizens.

All right. Open the public hearing. We don't have screens, so you just have to tell us what's going on.

Mr. Chairman, there are two screens working here. If two of you would like to come over here, I could swap seats.

Does anybody need a screen? OK. I think we're OK. OK. Thank you.

Looks like I already have the floor computer. All right. Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the commission, and members of the public. Tonight I am presenting case number SUP 26-0001, which is a special use permit application for Gloria and Michael Margellis. Tonight's request for the special use permit is to allow Gloria and Michael Margellis to operate a home enterprise as a hair salon within their single family home on tax map parcel 22G-13-173, which is zoned Residential 1 or R1. Although home enterprises are permitted by right in the zoning, Spotsylvania County Code Section 23-5.4 requires a special use permit for properties accessed from state routes numbered above 712. Because the property is accessed off of Camelot Way, which is numbered State Route 2010, a special use permit is required in this case. The property is located at 11811 Camelot Way, which is outlined in green on this slide. It is within the Salem Voting District and the Camelot subdivision within a neighborhood that is generally bounded by Gordon Road to the northwest and Harrison Road to the northeast. It is located within the primary development boundary, which means it will be served by public water and sewer. The property zoned R1 is surrounded primarily by properties with the same zoning designation as illustrated by the blue turquoise on the map. It is predominantly characterized by single family detached homes, which is consistent with this zoning designation. The comprehensive plan provides a framework for the future land use in the county. This area where the proposed use is located is designated as low density residential, shown on this slide in yellow. The use as proposed will not change the intent of this future land use designation. On this slide is a street view of the Margellos residence where the applicants are requesting the special use permit, which is to operate the hair salon within their home. The proposed salon would be a one chair appointment only operation with initial hours of 11 AM to 3 PM on Mondays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, and Saturdays. The proposed use would comply with county code requirements limiting home enterprises to a maximum of 10 clients per day. Staff supports the proposed use and recommends conditions allowing appointments between 9 a.m. and 6 p.m. to provide flexibility for the applicant while maintaining compatibility with the surrounding neighborhood. The proposed salon will operate entirely within the residence and remain subordinate to the property's primary residential use. The salon area will occupy approximately 260 square feet or about 17% of the home's total floor area, which is well below the 40% maximum permitted for home enterprises under our county code. Access to the salon will be provided through an existing separate entrance on the right side of the home, as shown here in the image, with pedestrian access coming from the existing driveway. The applicant has indicated that all salon-related waste will be contained and stored within the residence until disposal. Staff recommends requiring waste to be removed at least once every 30 days. On this slide is an aerial view of the Margello's home. As noted on the previous slide and shown here, the salon entrance is located to the south side of the home and will be accessed by the walkway connecting to the driveway. The driveway provides adequate on-site parking for both the residents and the proposed use. However, staff is concerned the clients may park along Camelot Way, which could create conflicts with neighboring properties and potentially interfere with emergency vehicle access. To ensure there are no negative impacts to neighboring property, staff is recommending conditions requiring all client parking to occur within the applicant's private driveway and prohibiting on-street parking by clients. As a part of the review process, staff evaluated the proposed use against the standards of review that are listed in Code Section 23-7A.3.8 and determined that with recommended conditions, the use is generally consistent with the intent of the standards. We will cover the conditions here in the next slides. Should the Planning Commission decide to recommend approval, staff has crafted conditions to mitigate potential impacts. And beginning with this slide, I will read them out for your convenience. Condition number one, home enterprise, a salon, here and after referred to as the salon, is and under this permit will and must be limited to one stylist operating a single chair at any one time. Two, all services of the salon and its stylist will and must be provided by appointment only and limited to no more than two clients at any one time. Three, salon operational days and hours are, and under this permit will and must be, limited to as follows. Beginning with the first appointment scheduled no earlier than 9 AM and last appointments no later than 6 PM and limited to only on Mondays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, and Saturdays. Four, all customers of the salon will and must park within the existing paved driveway on the property at 1181 Camelot Way, Fredericksburg, Virginia 22407. Five, any on-street parking associated with the salon is prohibited. Six, solid waste generated by the salon will and must be stored within the principal residential unit and disposed of at regular intervals at least once every 30 days. And seven, this home enterprise salon is and under this permit will and must be subject to and comply with Spotsylvania County Code Section 23-5.4A.2. And this concludes tonight's staff presentation for this special use permit request. I'm happy to answer any questions that you have for me at this time.

Any other board members have any questions? Jennifer?

OK. The applicant is here as well, if you would like to ask her any questions. And she may actually want to speak.

OK. Ma'am, would you like to speak? OK. Step up and hit the button, and Paulette will tell you the rules.

To speak during a public hearing, please do the following when you approach the podium. Clearly state your name and voting district or address for the record. Individuals speaking on their own behalf receive three minutes to speak. One individual representing a group will be granted five minutes to speak. Address your comments directly to the commission and not members of the audience. Questions cannot be directed to the commission with an expectation of an answer. Questions may be raised and may be addressed later in the meeting. No person at a public hearing shall be permitted to yield time to another speaker. No speaker shall address the commission more than once during a public hearing at any single commission meeting. Public comments should not be used to make political campaigns, speeches, or private advertisements. Written comments are always welcome.

And Mr. Chairman, just if I may, just for clarification, the applicant has 10 minutes to speak, and then we would have public comment, and then the applicant has a five-minute rebuttal period.

OK. Thank you. I'm sorry. Ma'am, you have 10 minutes.

Thank you. My name is Gloria Margeles. Thank you for letting me do this. This I'm trying to do for a long time, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to do it in my house. And my address is 11811 Camelot Way, Fredericksburg, Virginia, 22407. I thank you, each of you. I didn't realize it was gonna be so difficult. I waited for six months, but in the end, I'm so happy for Let Me Do It, so that's all I can say. Thank you so much.

Thank you, ma'am.

Mr. Chairman, who's going to make sure those conditions are met?

Well, that's the zoning department. Okay. Like with any other code requirement in the zoning ordinance, any other condition of a special use permit, any proffered condition with a rezoning, our department enforces that.

It's a 30-day standard or?

30 days for what, Dr. Bell? I apologize.

I think dispensing the waste and things of that nature.

That's just setting a threshold and expectation. Okay.

Okay.

All right, is there anybody in the audience that has signed up, Paulette, to speak for or against this? No one signed up, but if anybody in the audience would like to speak, please step up to the lectern. And they have three minutes, right? You need to hit that button for the green light to come on.

That's the one already.

There you go.

Okay, my name is Sheila. My voting district is in Camelot. I'm sorry, Chancellor. And I just have a few questions to ponder before you guys make a decision on agreeing with this. How's the parking situation going to be handled? Who's going to be there to enforce it like Dr. Bell requested answers to? How is anybody going to be able to be there to enforce it now? My... My way I dealt with salons and what I know is they sometimes double book because they have to be able to have somebody to take the place that somebody decides to cancel. That's a problem. I've been buying the property and I see the street, the driveway. Now, who's going to be there and enforce the cars are going to actually be in that driveway? I think that'll be an issue. And also, If this is approved, what is to stop it from other people coming in asking this board the same question, can I work out of my house? This is a residential area, and I'm concerned that it will turn into something more because we don't have an association. And if we had an association, this would not be a question at all. And on the last question I have is, with people that have hair salons, if it's one chair, of course it's one person that's handling the customers. But how is it when people are waiting? I know they kind of mentioned that in the presentation. But how are we going to control that? The people stay after 6. How are they going to control that? And last but not least, most people that have hair salons rent chairs. It's all kinds of places around salons and things that you can rent a booth, a chair in those places. So why is this any different from them going to another salon and renting there instead of coming out of the house? I'm just concerned that this is going to turn into more When other people come in and see the proof and decide, well, times is hard. I need to work out of my house. I need to be able to sell this or that. Then what happens? What are you going to do? Are you going to tell them no after telling them yes? Those are questions I like to ponder. And I yield back to the board.

Thank you.

Could you state your name again? For the record, I missed it.

Sheila Cooper.

Sheila Cooper. Thank you.

Dr. Bell, would you like to address any of those issues or have staff address them? Yes. I think they're legitimate, Mr. Chairman. Yes. Kimberly, could you address that?

I certainly will. So the enforcement of, if approved with those conditions, and Jennifer can go through them again if you would like. I'll touch on the question about how many people stacking up. The conditions are clear that you can have no more than two at any time. Conditions required that all parking must be within the driveway. Staff did inspect the property. We verified that the driveway can accommodate the associated number of vehicles. And the question about, you know, who is gonna enforce this? It's the zoning department. Spotsylvania County does not have a proactive inspection compliance program. We're complaint-based. And like I said, that's for any condition. That's it for any complaint. Tall grass, inoperable vehicles. And so I would say that if this is approved and if there were observed violations to the permit that people can call those complaints in to our office, we will inspect and ensure there's compliance. And then finally, I would say, as far as that this is a residential area, what's to prohibit somebody from coming and asking you to do this at another property? Nothing prohibits them from asking. Every special use is considered on its own merits, and that's why it goes through the public hearing process like this one is going through. I do think it's an important distinction for me to make here of that home occupations, home enterprises, those are permitted uses in all of our residential zoning districts. The only thing that sets this one apart is the fact that this is located within a subdivision street. If this was located on a state route of 720 and below, it would be a permitted use. We would be approving this by right with no public hearing process. So that's the only reason that sets this one apart.

Just a question. This is in the Salem district. How far is this from chancellor?

From the chancellor voting district? Let me pull that up. And you can probably continue on with public comment.

I think there was someone else up there.

OK, is there someone else who would like to address this at this time? Yes, ma'am. Step up and just state your name and district. You have to hit the button for the green light to come on to, ma'am. There you go.

My name is Joyce Little, and my district is the Chancellor District. I'm here because I have concern about the business. We live in a residential area. And we drive, getting away from business, trying to get home out of all of the traffic. So if one business is permitted, someone else is going to come up. How can you deny them from having a business? So we can have a lot of business in our community without, because we open it up for one, then we're going to have to open it up for someone else. We can't stop that. You can't just say we give to this and not give to these. So that's my concern, that we're going to end up in our area, residential area, with business in our area. And we're trying to get away from business when we get home to our resident. Now, a lot of the people who have the HOA, you don't have to worry about it. You're safe from this. But those of us who do not have it will not. So anybody who wants to come and have a business, some type of business, they can do it. We don't have a lot of people here today because really, didn't even probably look at that, this card that was sent out. Because I called a lot of people, and they wasn't even aware of it. So if it came to their mail, they didn't pay any attention to it. Something like this, to me, looked like it should be put on the voting so that people would actually see, and they have an opportunity to vote for this. Thank you.

Yes, ma'am. Ma'am, just because if this one should get approved, that doesn't mean another one can come along and we have to approve it. This is a special use permit application. And it's specific for this particular lady and her use. So if somebody else came down the road and wanted maybe a mechanic shop in his garage, that doesn't mean that that can happen.

But it could, right?

Well, it'd have come before. It would have to come up. For use, yes, ma'am.

Right, and it could be approved.

It could.

Which means somebody else could come with another mechanic shop. They have to come, but it could be approved because we're opening up for that, right?

I wouldn't say we're opening up for that, but it's a special use, yes, ma'am. No question.

Thank you.

You're quite welcome. Anybody else in the audience at this time that would like to speak either for or against this motion, this SUP? Ma'am, do you have a chance for rebuttal, if you would like? Yes.

This is a special permit. I understand I'm not going to open my house, my door, to everyone. It's very special. I'm ready to retire. And am I going to take maybe two a day or maybe none a day? I'm very private. I'm a Christian. And I will be so is this is private for me, just people who I really love and even myself. She don't have to worry, or anyone have to worry, including myself and my family, because this is private business. It's not open to the city. It's very private. That's all I want to say. OK.

Thank you. Dr. Bell, any other questions? Mr. Chairman, if this is approved, what happens? Does it go to the board or?

Oh, it would still go to the board for public hearing, the same as here, and a vote. Yes, sir.

Yes, this is just before you for a recommendation, not the ultimate determination. And the ultimate determination lies with the Board of Supervisors. This is a recommendation, an opportunity for recommendation.

What do you think? Other board, what do you think? How do you all feel about it?

Yeah. We've approved many other home uses, even in subdivisions, so it's just a matter of how you might think this would impact a particular subdivision. I'm not real troubled by it, because the one chair is. And a special use permit, Kimberly, it can always be pulled if you go out there and find cars parked in the street. Is that not true?

KIMBERLY ATKINS- No, you're exactly right. If there's violations, compliance issues with the special use permit, those can be revoked by the Board of Supervisors.

On-street parking is prohibited as a condition.

Any other? Excuse me. I'll just say I'm in complete support of this, given the conditions. I mean, I have grown up here in Spotsylvania County, and I've seen many of big parties of street parking. And the conditions on this special use permit say that people have to park in the driveway. So that mitigates the concern, in my mind, on that issue. And given the limited number of people, you probably won't not even notice that add on top of that the fact that during covid everybody was working from home and we had i'm sure a lot of issues at that point so i mean we we've seen how this can work i think the concerns are valid but i think that those concerns are mitigated with the proposal any other questions if not i'm gonna close the public hearing scott you got travis

I was just gonna say, it's a partnership between neighbors and your business to be a good steward and watch out for your neighbors. As you described, you're not gonna have a high frequency of people coming there. So I'm okay with it. It's a partnership. You gotta work with your neighbors.

Thanks. Was there a community meeting for this?

No, sir. We have a community meeting guideline. They're encouraged usually for much more impactful projects. Letters were sent. OK. OK.

I'm closing the public hearing on SUP 260001. Dr. Bill, it's in your district.

What's your pleasure, sir? I make a motion that we approve SUP 26001 to pass onto the Board of Supervisors.

Second. Dr. Bell, just for clarification, is that with the recommended conditions as presented? Yes, ma'am.

Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Motion's made and seconded. Roll call vote again, please.

Mr. Wood?

Aye.

Mr. Grinnell? Aye. Mr. Phelps? Aye. Dr. Bell? Aye. Mr. Bullock?

Aye. Motion passed 5-0. OK. Do I have to open public hearings again for the next one, or are we just continuing being open?

You open for each one.

OK. All right. Open public hearing for SUP 26-0002.

And Mr. Chairman, for the next item for the telecommunications tower, that requires a 2232 review. So that's the presentation that will be presented first. That does not require a public hearing. So there's no public hearing to open or close for that one. That is just a staff presentation and then the board's finding. And then we will move into the public hearing presentation for the special use for the tower.

Can we roll right into the public hearing without me closing it again?

You won't open a public hearing for the 2232.

No, but I've already opened it for the other one.

You closed it, though, as well.

No, I opened up the next one for 002.

So what we can say is maybe prematurely you opened it, but really first Matthew has to give the 2232 review presentation. There's no public hearing associated with that. You may recall for a 2232, it's the very rare instance where this commission is the decision maker, not just a recommender. And when the commission makes its decision in favor or against that it's either in substantial accord with the comp plan or not in substantial accord with the comp plan, just remember the motion maker has to give reasons in support of their decision. Now, if your motion aligns with staff you can either articulate your own reasons or you can adopt staff's reasons. If your motion doesn't align with the position of staff, then you'll have to articulate your own reasons in support of that motion. So again, this is a 22-32 to determine substantial accord. You'll have to give your reasons for any vote. And it is, in fact, your decision.

OK. Well, I'm going to go ahead and close SUP 26-002 that I opened by accident. Now we're going to do the 2232. All right, good.

Can I have the floor computer, please? All right, great. Good evening, Mr. Chairman and members of the commission. This is my presentation for the, oh, I have the wrong one. There we go. Okay, so this is my presentation for the 22-32 Consistency Review for SUP 26-002, the Spotsylvania Fire Station, the Toe Commutations Tower. So the applicant has requested a special use permit for a 195 foot tall telecommunications tower with a four foot lightning rod on approximately 4.34 acre parcel, zone industrial one and rural. And again, prior to the public hearing, the Planning Commission must review the proposal in accordance with the Code of Virginia, section 15.2-2232, to determine whether the facility is substantially in accord with the comp plan. Based on staff's analysis, the proposal is substantially in accord with the comp plan and staff recommends approval of this request. The site as shown here is Ion Red and is located approximately a quarter mile south from the intersection of Route 17, Benchmark Road, and Crossroads Parkway with the proposed tower located on the southern portion of the parcel. behind the fire station and it's represented by the yellow star here on the map. Properties surrounding the parcel are characterized by a mixture of both residential, commercial, and industrial uses. Such properties include the Pareto Warehouse and Crossroads Station apartments to the northwest and the currently unbuilt Village of Crossroads Station project to the south and the east. The GDP depicts that the tower will be located in a 3200 square foot compound surrounded by a six foot tall channeling fence with 12 inches of barbed wire as an anti-climbing device. The site will be accessed via the fire station's existing paved access road off of Crossroads Parkway, along with a newly constructed 12 foot wide gravel access road to complete that connection from the paved road to the entrance of the tower. The GDP also depicts a 100-foot vegetation preservation buffer proximate to the southern and western sides of the proposed area and compound, where forest cover exists, which will be preserved and left undisturbed. And supplemental plannings are also proposed on this GDP surrounding the site. to meet the 15-foot minimum landscaping buffer requirements. The proposed antennas for Verizon are at a height of 192 feet above ground level. The proposed tower will be designed to accommodate up to four antenna mounts, one is for Verizon and three other additional service providers. Photographs from 17 different points surrounding the site, which include to scale simulated images of the proposed facility have been included with this application. For example here, this is a photograph which is taken approximately .3 miles northwest of the site from the VRE parking lot. The applicant has also provided a consultant-generated National Environmental Policy Act, or it's also known as a NEPA report, which found there to be no adverse effects to historic properties for either direct or visual. These findings were reviewed by the Virginia State Historic Preservation Office, which concurred with said findings. Again, the Planning Commission must review the proposal in accordance with Code of Virginia Section 15.2-2032 to determine if the facility's general or approximate location, character, and extent are substantially in accord with the comp plan. And staff offers the following analysis. For location, the proposal is consistent with the comp plan's land use chapter. with respect to encouraging the provision of fiber optic cable and other technological infrastructure throughout the county. Telecommunications infrastructure also benefits both emergency responders and residents. The location is also favorable due to findings of no negative impacts to historic resources. And potential environmental impacts to endangered species, which are two species of bats, they would be mitigated with staff's recommended condition to prohibit all land asserving activity relating to tree clearing during their summer occupancy. And location is also, it also favorably addresses character and extent based impacts due to its setbacks off of Crossroads Parkway. It's also being located behind the fire station and the vegetative buffers. The proposed development isn't expected to have any major impacts to the character of the area. In addition to the visual benefit with the tower being set back off of Crossroads Parkway and behind the fire station, the tower will also be screened with the Preservation buffers and these in these supplemental plannings and resulting from the balloon tests flights simulation images and renderings the tower is unexpected to be visible from distant locations and And the extent of this project is not atypical. The proposed tower is 199 feet if you include the four foot tall lightning rod. This is the height that is typically seen for towers in the county. And the co-location of additional carriers on this tower is a positive as it reduces the likelihood or need for additional tower construction in the future. Co-location of these on a single tower is supported by the language chapter of the comp plan. Note, as Bobby just said, that any motion will require identifying at least one finding and or rationale as to why the proposal is or is not consistent with the location, character and extent. And alternatively, the Planning Commission can simply reference staff's findings as outlined in this report as the reasons for approving this consistency analysis, considering the general or approximate location, character, and extent. And that's the end of my 2232 consistency presentation. And I'm happy to answer any questions.

Okay, thank you, Matthew. Questions for Matthew?

I believe I'm correct on this, but this is the tower that will actually help with signal at the train track crossing over in that direction, correct? Because I know that there was the man that was unfortunately killed two years ago at that track crossing.

Yeah, so the location of being on Crossroads Parkway at the intersection of Mills there, that additional coverage would go up to benchmark and help improve the coverage there by the railroad crossing. Yes, sir.

Thank you. Any other questions? And I see we have a gentleman, I believe, from our IT department. Any questions of him? No?

Well, we've still got to hear the rest of it.

Well, this is just under 2232. OK. All right. There's no questions further under 2232. Mr. Wood, do you have a motion you'd like to make on 2232, please?

I would make the motion that this is in substantial accord with the comprehensive plan based on staff's findings.

OK. We have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. Motion made and second. Discussion? Seeing none, can we take a vote, please?

Mr. Wood?

Aye.

Mr. Grinnell?

Aye.

Mr. Phelps? Aye. Dr. Bell? Aye. Mr. Bullock? Aye.

Thank you, Paulette. OK, now we're hoping SUP 26-0002. Thank you, Matthew. Oh, you're still with us, Al.

I'm still with you.

All right, buddy.

All right, good evening, Chairman, once again, and members of the commission. This is the presentation for the public hearing for SCP-26-002, the fire station 11 telecom tower in the Berkeley voting district. The applicant requests a special use for a 195 foot tall telecommunications tower on an approximately 4.34 acre parcel zoned industrial one and rural. And staff recommends approval with the recommended conditions. Again, this is the site here, outlined in red with the star showing the power location off of Crossroads Parkway, approximately a quarter mile from the intersection with Benchmark and 17, and the properties surrounding the site are both residential, commercial, and industrial uses. And here is the zoning map of the property in the surrounding neighborhood here. The subject parcel is zoned both rural and I-1. And the surrounding properties are zoned I-1 rural and mixed use. And seen on the future land use map here, both the property and the adjacent properties are all classified as the mixed use general. And again, this is the GDP showing that the tower would be in a 3,200 square foot compound surrounded by a six foot tall chain link fence with 12 inches of barbed wire. It would be accessed off of Crossroads Parkway, off of the access road by the fire station. And there would be a constructed 12 foot wide gravel access road. to reach the compound. The GDP also depicts the 100 foot vegetation preservation buffer, proximate to the southern and western sides of the lease area and compound, where forest cover exists, which will be preserved and left undisturbed. Subliminal planning surrounding the compound are also depicted on the GDP to meet the 15 foot minimum land saving buffer requirements. And again, sorry, potential impacts to endangered species, which would be the northern long-eared and tri-colored bats. This, sorry, this will be mitigated with staff's recommended condition. to prohibit all land serving activity relating to tree clearing during their summer occupancy.

Matthew, if you need a break, we can take a break for you.

I'm just getting over a cold, so it's sort of.

Okay, you want a five minute break and we can let our telecommunications man, looks like we're joint applicant on this, the county and Milestone, is that correct?

I can go through. Okay. Okay. All right, buddy. The proposed antennas for Verizon are at 192 feet on the tower. And this tower will be designed to accommodate up to four antenna mounds, one is for Verizon and three other additional service providers. Again, 17 simulated images of the tower from the balloon test were provided with this application. This is an alternate image taking place approximately a quarter mile to the northeast at the intersection of Benchmark and 17 here. And again, the consultant provided a NEPA report, found there to be no adverse effects to historic properties, both in regards to direct and visual impacts. And these findings were reviewed by the Virginia State Historic Office, which concurred with said findings. On this slide you will see special use standards of review as outlined in section 23-4.5.7 of the zoning ordinance. Special use permits must satisfy these eight standards of review. These standards pertain to compliance with the comp plan, being harmonious with the character of the area and not detrimental to public safety and welfare among others. Overall staff finds the project generally satisfies the eight standards of review. Okay, staff's analysis result in the following project strengths for this request. That the proposal is consistent with the comp plan language chapter with respect to encouraging the provision of technological infrastructure throughout the county. The proposal satisfies all of the special use standards of review as established in section 23-4.5.7 of the zoning ordinance. The proposal will enhance telecommutation coverage and products for businesses, citizens, tourists, and also first responders. The proposal is business friendly and the vegetative screening is expected to reduce the immediate visibility of the tower site from the ground level when factoring in the preservation buffers and supplemental plantings. In contrast, staff's analysis result in the following project weaknesses. The height of the tower will exceed the height of the canopy of the tree cover and it's expected to be visible from some vantage points in close proximity to the site as seen in the image renderings. Overall, however, staff's analysis found the application complies with the standards of review. And staff recommends approval of this request with the following conditions. That the telecom tower will be developed in conformance with the generalized development plan. That the owner of the tower will, upon site plan approval, provide the county's zoning administrator with the current owner's contact information. The vegetation preservation buffer as depicted on the GDP must be preserved and left undisturbed with the exception of the area that is inside the 40 foot wide non-exclusive access fiber and utility easement. That's where the access road is located. The telecom towers shall be of a galvanized steel finish as seen on the GDP. And all land disturbing activity relating to tree clearing is prohibited from April 1st through an exclusive of September 30th every year. And that's the end of my presentation. OK.

Thank you for going forward with it. Is the applicant here? And I do believe, is the county actually a co-applicant here, Mrs. Pomato?

We're not a co-applicant, sir, but we are, of course, the property owner.

OK. Thank you.

Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board, Jonathan Yates, 105 Broad Street, Charleston, South Carolina. I have with me today my colleague at Milestone, Matt Farkas, and a very important person to us, Tim Johnson, the county broadband manager. We're glad to be here. First and foremost, and I have to address this to the director, Working with Matthew Decatur was an absolute pleasure. His professionalism. I think I called Matthew 101 times with a stupid question. And you know, he never laughed at me. He answered. He helped a blind man through the wilderness. And he was great. And I talked to Matthew the other day when he got back. He said he had a good time at Oak Island, but he came with a cold.

Matthew, thank you for getting through that presentation.

I know that wasn't easy. We appreciate everyone at the county that has helped at this point. The facility in question, Matthew, and the other thing I have to thank him for, 29-page staff report. That boy had to work before he went to Oak Island. I tell you what, he had to work. It's County Fire Station 11. County bought the property in 2013. The fire station went up in 2016. And my new friend, Tim Johnson, will tell you how bad the problems are out there with coverage. So working with Tim and the county, and we were able to come up with the location on the facility, which we like to do. And what are we doing? We're putting in wireless infrastructure. Here it's needed. You saw from the pictures, you have that huge VRE parking lot, you have Beretta, you have everything that's happening out in that area. It's a growth area. We want the infrastructure to be there to meet the growth. But the county was absolutely wonderful to us, and the placement they allowed on the property, working in conjunction with the fire station. And we like to go in with the fire station. The fire station there is there to serve the surrounding area. We're the same thing. They're providing fire protection. We're providing wireless infrastructure. Matthew covered almost everything, but just a couple other things just to throw in there. We do a lot of work before we get here tonight. A whole lot of work has to go into it. Among other things, this facility was reviewed and approved by the FAA. The FAA made two very important findings. First, determination of no hazard air navigation at the height we're going at. Also, they determined at that height, we would not have to have the air navigation lightings. So when we talk about visibility of this facility, and again, it's a line of sight technology. It's got to see the other towers.

About 830 tonight, you wouldn't see it.

And why did they make that finding? We're about three nautical miles from Shannon, and we're 2.9 nautical miles from the heliport at Spotsylvania Regional Medical Center. As Matthew touched on, we had this reviewed by Virginia SHPO in the NEPA, and on December 22nd, 2025, they concurred in the findings. All in all, it's a win-win. The facility is designed initially for Verizon Wireless, but that's not the end of it. As you saw from the elevation Matt showed you, it's designed for Verizon and at least three other additional broadband carriers if they want to solve their issues in the area. We have space for them on the tower, and then on the ground we have a 3,200 square foot compound with space for them. If we get to do it, and we're hoping you'll give us a recommendation, we're hoping the supervisors will agree with your recommendation, it takes Matt He's got to wait till after the bats have gone away. But it takes Matt's construction crew about 60 days to put one of these things up. It's about a 60-day construction period. A lot of that is just in the foundation being set. The foundation has set. Tower stealth is stacked in a day. Then Verizon comes and applies their equipment and does what they call network integration. We're going to make sure that works with the rest of the network. And we're doing what Tim Johnson wants us to do. After that, on average, all this equipment is sort of run remotely through national operation centers. On average, a tech may come out eight to 10 times a year just to tinker with equipment, so we're not gonna really be increasing traffic on crossroads. But when I looked at that VRE parking lot today, I said, I don't know how I could increase traffic on crossroads with all those cars. The facility will not produce any noise, odor, lights, vibration, fumes, or glare. What does it do? Wireless infrastructure. People can talk on their phones. Stupidest thing I did years ago was give my son that cell phone. I think he glued it to his hand with Gorilla Glue, because it never seems to leave his hand. But that's the funny part. The good part is broadband access. And to me, the most important part is access to 911 first responders. whether it be fire, police, EMS, someone's in trouble, we want them to get help. And that is what this does. You have in the county spotsy alerts, this needs to work for it. People joke about me that it takes me almost six minutes just to say my name. I apologize for being long-winded. I know you all have a long evening, but I'm here for any and all questions. And Mr. Johnson, the county broadband manager, he has the tech down. I'll defer to him if there are any particular questions on the need, because he knows it better than anyone. And he's been pushing us along to get this done as quickly as possible. Thank you again, Chairman, members of the board, and thank you, thank you, Matthew.

Any questions for the applicant?

I don't have any questions. I was at a meeting a couple months ago on this, and it solves a lot of the issues in that area, so I think it's a good project.

Mr. Phelps?

I don't have a problem putting up another tower. I live in that coverage area, and I'm in the black hole there where there's no cell coverage. My only concern is I know there's other comms towers around the area. I stare at a red light when I exit my community at night. I can see another comms tower down the road, and I'm just hoping that this really does solve the issue. I'm for it.

It would solve the issue with just Verizon at the present time, but that opens the door for AT&T, T-Mobile to come in there as well.

It's already there.

Tim, let me get you up to the mic, please. We'll get a call from somebody at home saying, hey, you didn't.

No problem. I was just saying that that's the initial carrier right now is Verizon, but what it does, that's a vertical asset, and AT&T and T-Mobile are a lot more likely to co-locate on that tower because their cost is now one-third of what it normally would cost to build a tower. They could... They could actually build three co-locations for what it costs to build a tower, one site. So as of right now, it would just help with Verizon coverage. I know the gentlemen and ladies at the actual FS11 are happy because they don't have a very good Verizon reception there. So hopefully it's a hot ticket item with the VRE, state police, our first responders, because just that dead zone there, at that railroad track intersection. So that's what we're trying to cure, basically. Okay, thank you.

Dr. Bell?

Based on what Commissioner Phelps was saying, even though Verizon might be the only carrier right now, could this solve most of our problems in that area?

Absolutely. Like I said, if it only has Verizon antennas on it right now, if you have AT&T or T-Mobile, it's not going to solve the issues. But it leaves it open for AT&T and T-Mobile to come in at a substantial cost reduction to build their antennas on there, to put their antennas on there. You stated that there are, you noticed that there are cell towers in the general area. Cell phone towers nowadays really need to be, I mean within, I would say three to five miles away from each other to be able to handle the traffic. Not just the traffic, like taking a phone call is one thing, but when cell phones start pulling data and everything, it's just sheer capacity. This will solve also. Because if there's a tower here and a tower here, it's splitting the load. If you have just one tower here, it's getting all the load. So that's an issue.

Thank you. Mr. Bullock, any questions? No, sir. Yeah. I have a quick question. You mentioned broadband on it. Are you working with REC to get any broadband expanded into the county anywhere?

That was kind of not the right term. Broadband is like you have Comcast or Vios. That is broadband or Wi-Fi, if you will. Basically, the cell phone tower will provide... would provide some sort of broadband, I guess you would say, if they don't have, if a citizen does not have either Comcast or Vios or something like that, they could have Verizon Hotspot in their home to provide internet for them. i i touched on this before about the capacity is with the snow storm on january 3rd 2022 when we had all the power outages and stuff um the phones stopped going on the wi-fi and started pulling off the towers to pull data from them and it just inundated their whole their whole system i mean it's really really prevalent more so in the berkeley and livingston districts

so it's not technically it's broadband and cellular there's two different things or Wi-Fi I just heard the term broadband yes it's a very good broadband in the rural part of the county and that's been kind of a issue yes with me yes well thank you same here it's been a journey any other questions okay anybody from the audience that would like to speak for or against anybody signed up Paulette nobody no sir this chance to speak. OK. We heard from applicant. Close the public hearing. Mr. Wood, what's your pleasure tonight, sir?

I would like to make a motion that we approve the SUP based on staff's recommendation with staff's conditions and send it on to the Board of Supervisors for approval. Second.

Motion made and seconded. Any further discussion? Roll call vote, please.

Mr. Wood?

Aye.

Mr. Grinnell?

Aye.

Mr. Phelps? Aye. Dr. Bell? Aye. Mr. Bullock?

Aye. Motion passed 5-0. Thank you. All right. Next public hearing, CA 26-0005. I'll open up that public hearing at this time. And our applicant, I'm gonna give you one minute to speak. Okay.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You'll recall the Planning Commission. You initiated this code amendment just a few meetings ago. This is a result of recent legislation that was passed by the General Assembly that is effective July 1st. So we're trying to get this through so that we can be compliant with state code, which required that localities allow manufactured homes where Stick-built single-family detached dwellings are allowed in any of our residential districts. So the amendment that you saw in your packet, you'll see it was a very simple amendment. We just revised the definition of single-family detached dwelling to include manufactured homes as defined in state code section 15.2-2290. And so a couple important takeaways from that is that the manufactured home will need to be on a permanent foundation and it'll also need to be registered not as personal property, but as real estate and taxed accordingly. And so that is that's my presentation. I'm happy to answer any questions.

Okay. Any questions? Kimberly, Scott asked me earlier that permanent foundation definition, if it was like on concrete piers into the footings, but yet gaps in between them, is that?

That would meet the intent there of permanent foundation, yes, sir.

OK. Any questions from anyone at this?

So the manufactured home is the home that's probably being brought in on a truck or cart or some type of transportation and placed?

Right. I mean, a manufactured home by definition is one that is mobile. It's different than a modular home where they are prefabricated somewhere else and then they're brought to a site and then constructed on a site. These are mobile homes. Of course, for them to be compliant with the code and be able to be constructed and in place and in all of our residential districts, the wheels would have to come off. They'd have to be on, you know, they could be on just pilings. on a permanent foundation. And then, like I said, the other distinction is just mobile homes currently are registered with DMV and taxed as personal property. So the owners would actually have to go through the motions with DMV to remove them from that program, then open an account with Commissioner of Revenue and have it taxed as real estate before we would approve a permit.

It's a big change. It is. Yeah. To my understanding, too, that these small homes on trailers would qualify as long as they rolled them in there and took them off the trailer and put them on permanent. So.

That's my understanding, too. Yes, sir.

OK.

Of course, the code, I will say that subdivisions, communities, they can have their own covenants and restrictions to address this, so it can be done that way. The code was clear about that, but for our purposes, we have to allow it.

What's the chance, though? Can HOA covenants supersede state law?

The code allowed for the covenants and restrictions to control that, yes. It was specific in the language.

Okay, so the burden would fall on the HOAs. But like the lady here from Camelot, if they don't have an HOA, then all goes.

Yes, sir. And so what we would do as a matter of practice for the permitting is that if we would permit comes, we'll do the research to see if there's any covenants and restrictions recorded in the subdivision to make sure that there is none. If there were, we would... as part of the permitting process, say, hey, we need a letter from your HOA saying this is acceptable. We would do our best to dot the I's and cross the T's, but.

OK. All right. Does anybody in the audience want to speak in favor or against CA 26-0005? Last chance. Seeing none, closing the public hearing. Any further discussion by the board? Entertain a motion to approve so we're in compliance with state code? Thank you, Scott. I'll make a motion to go with state code. I want to be a state code person. Any second? I still need a second by our bylaws.

Second.

OK, we got a second. Thank you, Mr. Bullock. Roll call vote, please.

Mr. Wood.

I was just going to have a quick discussion, Mr. Chairman, because since the motion's been made and seconded, again, I just want to make the public aware that this is a direct result of decisions made in Richmond that are forced on the localities at times due to the fact that we are a Dillon rule state. So we don't have jurisdiction in some of these areas. So if you have any issues with this, then talk to your legislative member that's down in Richmond.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Wood.

Reluctantly, aye. Mr. Grinnell. Aye.

Mr. Phelps.

Reluctantly, aye.

Dr. Bell. Aye. Mr. Bullock.

Aye. Motion passed 5-0. Public hearing's closed. Just a small brief. I speak with Mr. Phelps earlier. Talk about our state legislature. Looks like the governor's come to meet in other minds with our house. And we're going to pass legal cannabis on July 1 if it goes through the Senate. So we'll have a lot to celebrate next July. Anybody that's a smoker, I gave up smoking years ago. Cigarettes, that is. Moving on. Miles will have some fun while we're here, right? Discussion items.

It's not working.

Is this a hearing? I have to. Yes, sir.

OK. I'm glad I've already .

All right, Jacob.

It's all yours, buddy. All right, good evening, members of Planning Commission and public here this evening. Tonight I'm wrapping up the main bulk of the agenda with another work session on the Conference of Plan Update, our five-year update process. Today's focus is going to be on Subchapter 2B, Housing, and Subchapter 2C, Production of Food and Fiber and Silviculture, or in other words, Agriculture and Forestry. I wanted to just reiterate what Kimberly stated earlier this evening about the agenda. We had tentatively identified the subchapter 2A. These are all subchapters under land use chapter, first of all. We are not bringing the land use chapter forth till August. That's when we're looking to bring the main chapter forward. These are subchapters under the land use chapter that lend background data and policy recommendation that are gleaned from this into the land use chapter. We had tentatively identified Chapter 2A, Economic Development and Tourism, to go forward this evening as well. However, as you know, we try to bring subject matter experts present to these meetings if you have specific questions. And unfortunately, this evening, we had some scheduling conflicts with economic development and tourism. So the agenda item had been initially posted, and we had to shift it around and take it off and then move forward with the two that we have this evening. The economic development and tourism chapter, we are bringing forward next month at your July 15th meeting. And again, as she had stated too, that'll come with the introduction and vision chapter one of the comprehensive plan as well. We'll knock two of them out there. For the chapter two B, housing, and chapter two C, production of food and fiber and silviculture, in the past we've brought a lot of department representation from sheriff's office. This particular subchapter, have subject matter experts that go beyond the county specifically. They're not departmental necessarily. So with the development of the housing subchapter and for food and fiber, we had a number of organizations outside of the county proper, regional organizations, some of them at the federal level as well, state and federal level, to contribute to the update on this. And I'd tell you for the subject matter experts this evening from housing, we have representation from the Regional Housing Assembly that's under George Washington Regional Commission. And I will say they actually have representation from a lot of these organizations that you have here. So you have Friends Association of Realtors, the Builders Association, Continuum of Care, the Central Virginia Housing Coalition, Mary Washington Healthcare all participate underneath the Regional Housing Assembly. And for that this evening, we have representation from Sam Shoukas from the George Washington Regional Commission, and also Jay Hicks, who worked for Gerald Properties, also principal with the Regional Housing Assembly, and also worked with the Fredericksburg Building Association. So they're in representation this evening. We also have representation from Kim McClellan from the Fredericksburg Area Association of Realtors here this evening. If you have questions on the real estate market for housing, On food and fiber and silviculture, so we have this evening the chair of the county's Agriculture and Forestal District Review Committee, Mr. Kenny Smith. He's here for representing agriculture in the county, a really good resource for that. The food and fiber subchapter, again, involved, you know, if you've read through it, there's a number of different agencies we've solicited feedback from and specific information inputs as it relates to agriculture in the county currently. So for Chapter 2B, Housing, I'm going to give you an overview on what we have introduced here in the subchapter. Previously, the subject matter, as last updated in 2021, was embedded within Chapter 2, Land Use. As part of this five-year update process, content has been relocated under the Land Use chapter to be more easily discoverable as a subject matter subchapter. The comprehensive plan survey results that we had provided to you all and provided to the Board of Supervisors as well regarding housing suggests an array of opinions. Many write-in comments that came out of those surveys wished for a major scale back or a total halting of new housing in the county. The greatest consensus on where future development should be focused was geared towards transportation improvement areas, the revitalization of aging commercial and residential areas, and an increase in community and recreational developments that are walkable. While we had this major write-in interest in scaling back housing availability, I would also note that 67% of respondents said that housing affordability was a concern for either themselves or their families, with most respondents wanting to see smaller size single family detached homes in the county. And you could see our dilemma as a result. No housing versus we have a housing crisis for affordability, and you can't really stop housing while you're having these issues. Supply and demand, we also recognize the fact that You know, while housing is often cited as being a cost because of things like schools impacts and things of that nature, you also need that housing to provide your workforce, place to live, and consumer spending on commercial establishments within the county to support that type of growth. Small area plan surveys, I would say, were very similar in their insights into housing. There was this kind of dichotomy between scaling back housing versus we need more affordability in the county. So with this update, we've provided an update on housing inventory numbers by type. Those are based on unit types for multifamily, mobile homes, single family, detached, and attached. We've provided housing market data for the last full year of 2025, sourced through the Fredericksburg Area Association of Realtors. We've also included health and human services insights regarding housing from the community health assistant from Mary Washington Healthcare, as well as on homelessness from the Continuum of Care. I noticed that the comprehensive plan had not previously really addressed these issues, so we really saw there was a lot of value and need in the community addressing issues like homelessness in the community, and we've introduced that in this plan. The housing market conditions analysis was provided by Central Virginia Housing Coalition. We found that to be very frank and clear to read on exactly what they're seeing on the ground. And that's precisely why we reached out to these organizations that are in the nonprofit sector or profit-driven sector and actually dealing with housing development on the ground and see the issues that there are. On income and affordability, we've updated affordability calculations, the county's affordability calculations, estimates for households and single income earners. I will tell you that the methodology that you see in those tables has been vetted through the mortgage industry, and they, you know, different mortgage entities have different calculations, but they all that we've dealt with have concurred that they've all come in within a reasonable range. parameter for, you know, based on your household income and assumed money down and things and interest rates that our calculations are fairly accurate. So on the 2025 housing calculation, the county standard is for those earning 75% of the county median household income. This is a household, so there may be multiple earners in there. An affordable unit would be considered $286,322. And for single income earners would be $216,202. We've updated residential building activity sourced through the county building office. This has to do with building starts and building occupancy for residential units. We've also updated inventory and analysis of multi-family developments within the county. The draft proposes a more nuanced approach to land uses and descriptions towards best of both worlds revisions. Again, we have this situation where there clearly is a need for housing, especially affordable housing, but then there's also this interest in kind of scaling back the extent of housing. having attended a lot of the public hearings over the years you know there's concerns about the postage stamp lots perceived density things of that nature so we're trying to address those with this update we've also continued to maintain the existing primary development boundary line with the update of this comprehensive plan as last expanded in 2021 so what we're trying to do is work within the area that we've identified for water and sewer and higher intensity growth and try to build efficiencies within that, whether that be redevelopment, infill development, or the development of areas that have not yet developed within the primary development boundary. Just as a point of reference, the primary development boundary in Spotsylvania County is roughly 18% of the county's land area, so that leaves a lot of land area well outside of the boundary that is not targeted for higher intensity growth. We've promoted an infill and revitalization of existing developed areas, again, as I had stated previously, and we focused denser development patterns in the smaller geographic areas. When we come to the Planning Commission in August, we will have some proposals that fairly significantly scale back some of those mixed use areas or higher intensity density areas. We've also proposed things like removing attached style housing from the low density residential land use designation. So you have a more reasonable expectation that single family detached development be developed there rather than as it's currently worded in the comprehensive plan, it could be attached or detached. And unfortunately, as you probably know, it's created some conflicts where you have attached and detached subdivisions being proposed or higher density townhome communities proposed against a development that was established in the 1990s with less density, for instance. So we're trying to reign that in and really locate the housing types where they are best fit within one another and also fairly respectful of existing development patterns. And to that point, we've introduced residential hamlet designations respectful of semi-rural collections of housing and are difficult to serve areas near the edge of the primary development boundary. So as I had introduced back in 2025, I believe it was, or late 2024, when we presented the small area plan to you, the proposals for the Thornburg-Jackson Gateway area, for instance, there are semi-rural collections of housing that have been long established in the area of the Po River. in the area of Hickory Ridge Road, for instance. Those are areas that, you know, when the comprehensive plan was updated initially in 2008, were kind of broad brushed with land use designations like employment center land uses and mixed use land uses that really create a conflict potentially with these historic collections of residential development. And the intent wasn't really to to remove those or redevelop them, but we're trying to be more nuanced and respectful of those areas and provide buffering out of respect for those areas as well. So those are some of the things that we've done. In the northwest portion of the primary development boundary, I also note in August you'll see where we've proposed these residential hamlets as you're near the edge of the primary development boundary. Those are things out west of Route 3 corridor that we'll also be introducing. It's also a means to try to scale back some of the geography of higher and density land uses that are currently outlined in the land use chapter. We've also promoted land use based density bonus options for smaller square footage units while ultimately lowering the total lot yields of projects regardless by employing a net base calculation for density as opposed to a gross acreage based approach. And I'm going to try to explain that further to you. But the goal here was to give a little bit more incentive towards smaller cottage style homes, homes that are 1,800 square feet or less. That's not what we tend to see. We tend to see larger scale homes on the postage stamp lots. And what we're trying to do is create a land use designation. And by all means, too, I want to reiterate, when I get into this density bonus, it's optional. It's not a requirement. We're not introducing any code changes that would actually require this. We're also not requiring smaller units unless someone were to option these density bonuses and that would only be supported as a land use policy. So this is our example of what we currently have dealing with within our land use chapter of the comprehensive plan versus what we're proposing as a guideline. Again, this is scenario based and how we would interpret the comprehensive plan. Currently, we calculate so a hundred acre site you have a hundred acre undeveloped site somebody wants to go develop housing on it they calculate their density based on the gross acreage that would include open space the entirety of the site even even land area that isn't developable necessarily there may be a stream corridor running through it to calculate their unit count based on that gross acreage. So under a low density land use designation that we currently have in the comprehensive plan, that's one of the most prevalent residential land use designations in the primary development boundary, the recommended density is four units per acre. Open space scenario would be, say there's 20% in open space, that would be 20 acres out of the 100 acres. However, leaving a development footprint within the remaining 80 acres. However, that lot yield is based on the 100 gross acres. So 400 units would result at four units per acre. And that's how you get some of the lot shrinkage into what's remaining out of the, when you take the open space out, now you're taking that 400 units and putting it in a much smaller, in 80 acres rather than 100. so equally distributed lot sizes within an acre 80 acre footprint would be two tenths of an acre lots or 8712 square foot lots under our proposed guidelines and this is this is this first part of this is trying to set back some of the lot yield expectations because again we've had interest in Again, some of the survey responses said no new housing or scale back the housing and we've had these issues with perceived density issues with clustering. So under the proposed guideline, we would advocate for a net base calculation it would take out the open space equation. So under that same 100 acre site at a density of four units per acre, open space at 20%, that's 20 acres, the development footprint would be within a remaining 80 acres. So our lot yield would be based on that 80 net acres instead. That would result in 320 units at four units per acre. It reduces the lot yield expectation while still allowing the development of a project equally distributed lots at 80 acre footprint equals quarter acre lots. And that's, I think what we've seen from the community too, is when you say 40 units per acre, there's almost an expectation that where are the quarter acre lots? We've not been seeing them. We've been seeing the, the shrunken type of scenarios. Um, like we, we show previously here. So within that lower lot yield expectation under the land use, we've introduced a concept called market driven flex units. These were initially presented at the Board of Supervisors at work session on January 29th, 2025. They were not supported for inclusion in the zoning code update as a requirement or something that would be regulatory. The board did not want to promote buy right lot yield expansions. And that would have been the effect of this. So what happened is we found that there was a more favorable scenario under rezoning paired with impact mitigation, proffer mitigation for schools and things like that. That was the issue that was the most concerning, introducing a whole lot more lots as a buy right scenario. So as an alternative to that, we're still working within our existing ordinance. But what we've done is we've recognized that the comprehensive plan promotes market rate non-subsidized affordability. That's a comprehensive plan policy that's been in place for many years. The proposal that we have is an incentive-based and optional. and considered of reduced lot yield expectations that I previously referenced to result in larger, more predictable lot sizes and separations between units, the proposal would provide the option for projects to increase lot yields specific to a subset of parcels within the project to result in a percentage of smaller units provided that the homes are built at a more affordable scale. That's simply based on the idea of cost per square foot and how many buildable square foot are there finished. Rather than a 3,000 square foot home, you're building a 1,600 square foot home. That doesn't dictate the whole entire project is that way. It's just that a subset of units mixed into the development has an option to get a few more lot yield out of it and try to introduce a mix of units rather than everything being large. The goal is smaller footprints and square footages. Overall, the character of the project maintains a less postage stamp character while introducing a percentage of smaller units. Under the market driven flex unit scenario, this is what we're gonna provide you here. Under that net calculation I said, 100 acre site, density of four units per acre with the open space and or non-residential pad sites of 20 acres. Development footprint within the remaining 80 acres. Lot yield is based on 80 acres, that's that 320 units that I talked about, at four units per acre. equally distributed it's those quarter acre lots under the flex unit approach we have the 320 units at four units per acre at quarter acre lots And these numbers can change, but we have proposed a 20% allowance. There'll be an allowance for up to 20% of lots within the project to qualify as flex units. Those would be 64 parcels. Equally distributed non-flex unit lots remain at quarter acre lots, and by far the majority of the project at 256 lots. Of the 64 lots under a 50% unit bonus scenario, 32 additional parcels would be possible. And the project would be subject, provided it met, for instance, a maximum 1,600 to 1,800 square foot building size. And there would be an allowance for smaller lot sizes. yield with the flex units that bonus would be 252 versus the 400 that we're currently at without this scenario. So we still reduce the lot yield expectations. We result in projects that have more predictable larger lot sizes while also providing the opportunity for a subset of units to be built at smaller size that are optional. So this is a little graphic that have been provided looking at a project off of Harrison Road. This is a subdivision that was approved via rezoning. It's been developed since. What you see here is a scenario where this project was approved next to an existing, much larger, historically established subdivision. Much smaller, more postage stamp lots that were proposed. And when you think about this, when you think of home, home, home on each of these lots, you create more of a dense, almost like a wall effect along the edge of this much larger, more spacious subdivision. This is a scenario that was actually approved and it's been developed. This is not drawn to scale, but based on the principles of what I was talking about, subdivision will be developed with larger lots that are, less densely packed up against the existing subdivision, and there would be a subset of lots that could be distributed within the development in exchange for, with a density bonus, with an exchange for potentially smaller lot sizes, although I will tell you that we're looking at options to have lots also potentially calculate towards open space so we don't have this massive open space areas. We'll actually promote some open space actually going to private lot management rather than under HOA management. But also to have these smaller building footprint lots mixed in. If you wanna talk about housing now before I move on to production to food and fiber, we can certainly do that or I can go finish the presentation.

a little bit right now while you're fresh. You know, it's been an issue as far back as I remember about affordable housing. And back in my day, affordable housing was Spots Lee. And people from Fairfax and Arlington would come down here, firemen and policemen, buying little houses out in Spots Lee. Because our lots were only $6,000 to $5,500 a lot. But once your lots get up to 100 plus, I don't know how affordable housing works anymore on a $100,000 lot. I'm waiting to hear from some of these people in the audience what kind of solutions they have, because I have no idea how you can make that balance now. Maybe the manufactured homes thing will help a little bit, but anybody that's got a nice house doesn't want a manufactured home next to them for the most part.

I will defer to our experts here, but I will tell you within housing too, we're looking at areas, I'll give you some other examples of things that we are looking at. Looking at support for housing trust funds that essentially are owners of the land. They take the land value out of the project for develop. We've looked at housing trust funds. We've also looked at the development of long, platted, legally non-conforming lots that have not developed in your areas of Sylvania Heights, Lafayette Boulevard corridor. There are a lot of platted lots off Benchmark Road. They have problems. They are not consistent with current zoning. One of the things that we're trying to do with the zoning update is to promote opportunities for those historically planted lots to develop consistent with how they were historically planted as infill lots. Consider it of, for instance, within Sylvania Heights, areas that are, they may not meet current setbacks, but they can, because they're legally non-conforming lots, they can base their setbacks on a historically established setback within the block. things for promoting infill development, redevelopment of commercial areas, potential introduction of housing in areas that were, and I think we had brought this up before, but if you look at the Route 3 corridor, for instance, you have residential south of the Route 3 corridor, you have residential north of Route 3 corridor, but the Route 3 corridor itself is one dimensional. It's commercial office, All commercial office, and so we're looking at options too to bring in accessory dwelling units, introduce residential in areas that are historically one-dimensionally commercial as a secondary use, not saying that Route 3 becomes a residential area, but to introduce residential in areas that have historically not been residential. They've been Euclidean-ly zoned out, if you will, and that's your zoning that says commercial must be here, residential must be here, industrial must be here. some kind of hybrid mixed use type of scenarios within areas. Again, promoting infill development, redevelopment within our existing primary development boundary, and then also reinterpreting some of our land use designations where we do have green fill development opportunity for new development as well. And with that, I'll turn it over to our experts. Thank you.

I have a question. Go ahead, Travis.

You've given me so many numbers, I don't know where I'm at, but I want to go over this. Basically, we're talking about 100 acres. That's 400 units. Yes. With 20% open space. Yeah. That was number one. That's correct. Then we went down to 100 acres. We went down to 320 units. That's correct. OK. So then we go to the flex. Yes, sir. This is where I got lost. So with the flex at a quarter acre, then we're down to 252 units. Yeah, that was, one moment. So we've gone from 100 acres, we've gone from 400 units down to 252 units.

We end up with, okay, so to my point, Under the net base calculations, you have the 100 acres. Instead of saying that you're going to also get units credited for your open space, we're only taking the units in the areas that are outside open space. So we're not getting units credited within a wetland area on your site. and that's not to suggest that you're building a house in a wetland area, it's that you're getting credit for that land area and now you're putting it into a area outside of that which ultimately takes your lot yields and shrinks those lots down to pack them all in there. Under this scenario you have a 100 acre site. We're recommending under land use policy, and again this is a guideline, this is not code, We're recommending that the open space areas not be counted towards additional lot yield. So if you're doing your quarter acre lots based on the land that's left outside of your open space, that's how I ended up down to the 320 unit scenario versus 400. Flex unit option basically builds in an incentive from that 320 units to get additional lot yields that's still under what I presented provides a scenario where we're gonna result in more affordable smaller units, because you have to do that in order to get that incentive. And it gets you up to 352 units. So in this particular instance, we've gained units. We've gained a density bonus for more affordable sized homes as an option. But the lot yield expectation that the comprehensive plan sets is still well under the 400 units that we currently have. So that's what we propose. That's the best of both worlds scenario.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Is that about clear as mud?

I'm sorry. I don't know. Kimberly might be able to. She's gone through this with me as well. She may have better explanation, but I tried the best I could.

But, you know, the smaller lots. I'm on an 8,000 square foot lot now. I never thought I would be. Virginia Heritage and Over Regency now, the homes are going over $600,000 on an 8,000 square foot lot. And I don't know, I just don't, I wish, maybe some of these wise people in the audience in real estate, I mean, can answer this.

One thing I would say is what we've seen is the gateway starter home, if you will, has really turned into townhome communities. That's really what we've seen. What's also affordable is a handyman special house. But the problem with handyman special houses is you may get it affordably, but the amount of money that you have to put into it to maintain it and get it back up to a livable standard likely makes it unaffordable. So there's a lot of issues there. And it's also one of the reasons why we have demand that we do for apartments.

How does our code address duplexes? Because there's a development just west of Lake of the Woods that are a little more affordable, smaller lots, but they did duplexes all through there. And that holds the price down. I don't know how our code addresses duplexes.

We haven't seen a lot of them. I'll tell you, on Five Mile Road, we have a project called Spring Haven. That was approved.

We've got one coming now on levels, don't we? And there are duplexes in there. and I wanted to sign benefit. Yeah, Molly Manor. I have no idea what they're selling for over there. Anybody have any idea? Okay.

As part of our zoning update, we are looking at opportunities to potentially introduce maybe a subset of units, maybe have 10% of units could be duplexes within a traditionally single family detached. That really is something that we have to finely tune within the zoning update. We're also introducing some of that support within the land use policy to have different housing types. While not also, again, to my point earlier about not washing areas with higher intensity development that create these land use conflicts that we've been seeing for residential. That's one of the reasons why, for instance, within single family, the low density residential land use designation that we bring forward in August, that really is gonna be focused primarily on detached housing rather than, as it's currently written, detached or attached, which is, it's a catch all. So we're looking at doing things of that nature.

It's a big issue. It's almost like the data centers. I mentioned earlier about the KIPS project. Is that in our primary development area? It is? Yes, sir. The complaints I get, well, I can't drive anywhere anymore. It takes me 40 minutes to get downtown Fredericksburg to a restaurant because of massaponics area so why are you proving more houses if there's a housing shortage but yet yeah the constituents out there say hey we don't want any more houses right yeah saying that for years and that's to the point i say the the issue that we have with the survey where it's we don't want more houses but then there's so much interest in

affordable housing at the same time. Because we also hear a lot that folks want their youth stay local, things of that nature. With that said, too, if we want to have some of our guests here.

Let's go get you over so you take a break.

Mr. Chairman, I do have a question. Question and thoughts. I know we talked about the survey where people were saying no new housing. I'm trying to remember because I remember doing the survey a couple months ago. Was there a distinction on there between rental homes and homes that we're buying or was there not a distinction on that?

My recollection is it's homes in general just because of perceived traffic and some of the density conflicts that we've been dealing with with some projects as well as obviously impacts the schools and things like that.

Gotcha, yeah.

I mean, rental housing is controversial as well. I mean, apartments was the first bad word in housing that we've kind of seen, and it kind of went into townhomes, and then you get to a point where no housing is popular, and yet we have a major crisis. The region's not shrinking. It's growing. So that's a problem as well. I'm very familiar with regions that are shrinking and are demolishing homes by the thousands, and that's a whole different ballgame.

Right, yeah, because the people that I've talked to, obviously, I'm third generation Spotsylvania. I grew up in Spotsylvania. That was mentioned earlier. And Mr. Grenot, as I found out when I joined the board, actually built my parents' first home in that neighborhood. So that was my parents' first home when they were having children back in the 80s. I am 43 and a full-time teacher in the county. I cannot afford home in the county right now. And I know a lot of people my age and younger cannot afford those homes unless you're making a $100,000 job, which means you're commuting up to Northern Virginia most of the time. So the housing issue is a big issue to try to drive those prices down. but at the same time, I know a lot of people in the area, me included, don't want rental homes and rental apartments coming in where people don't invest in the community. I think that's the biggest takeaway from people I've talked to is they want people moving here who are going to invest in the community here rather than just come in, use resources, and then dip out. So that's the challenge I know that we're trying to deal with.

Yeah, and I'll say it this way. I think there's many different tools and affordable housing needs to be taken at different angles. And I don't think all of it's addressed by the county necessarily through our policies or regulations. What I introduced this evening are some tools that we propose to try to help the situation, to try to promote smaller scale homes. But there are regional and state level and private sector resources out there, and that's precisely why we brought the folks here this evening, to try to help this bigger picture.

You know, since Mike mentioned it, the home I built for his dad back then, That was a thousand square foot home. Lowe's Grassroots, 25 or 40. I don't think anybody would dare build one of them today. I don't know if you could ever sell it. Maybe you could, I don't know, but back then they popped off the market.

I'm familiar with growing up in those size homes, for sure.

All of us. I mean, the home I grew up in, we had three bedrooms, had one bathroom, had an older sister and a younger sister.

Yeah, we're not seeing small bungalows and ranchers. The question often is, where are those types of housing?

Pardon?

I think it costs six and a half cents.

Six and a half cents. Two dollars and a half. Will you buy me one? I will. All right, thank you.

So, Mr. Grinnell, if you're interested in my just wrapping up the presentation before we bring them in, we can certainly do that. I'll move on to production of food and fiber.

Thank you, Jacob.

Yes, sir. Again, with food and fiber, we do have Mr. Kenny Smith here from the Agriculture and Forestry Committee. We did vet this content with the Ag Forestry Committee on September 10th of 2025. We've updated farmland and forestry information, production data from the Census of Agriculture, the latest Census of Agriculture available, as well as through the Virginia Department of Forestry. We've added a section on climate data. Agricultural services and education, consulting with the Spotsylvania County Public Schools regarding their FFA programs, the Virginia Cooperative Extension, Tri-County City Soil and Water Conservation District. We've updated reporting on county agriculture and forestry district program, land use program summary and statistics. We've updated on the right to farm friendly actions that the county has taken since the last update. As you all are probably familiar, we took the chickens ordinance through you all and removed the backyard chickens permit and did things of that nature that have been very friendly to homesteading and the right to farm community. We've also promoted agritourism in the farmers markets, gotten updates from them. We've also depicted agriculture and forestry friendly suitability information in map form at the end of those subchapter in support of surveys and studies to made in preparation of the plan with Dakota Virginia. I'll note that these mapping resources lent significant insights into the 2021 update of the concept plan that led to significant expansion of the agriculture and forest land use designation We vastly expanded it based on models that showed agricultural suitability, prime agricultural soils, and forest productivity within the county. And earlier I noted that approximately 18% of the county is within the primary development boundary. I'd note that 82% is outside of the primary development boundary, and agriculture and forestry are recognized as appropriate uses out there. The agricultural and forest land use designation generally discourages rezonings and focused on agriculture and forestry and rural residential, by right rural residential. That encompasses over 38% of the county's land area, resulting from the 2021 expansion of land. And I'd also note it's the largest single land use designation that we have in the county, the agricultural and forest land use designation. It covers over 100,000 acres. The draft also promotes vertical farming operations. This is something that we looked at for a number of reasons. suggested within the plan that vertical farming or controlled environmental agriculture be considered as targeted industry. In the past when we were talking about data centers, for instance, one of the questions that we have asked is under a scenario where data center industry contracts or they technologically advance and they don't need these massive facilities anymore or whatever happens, what do we do with those large buildings? some of which are located outside the primary development boundary. Some of them are in traditionally rural farm forest areas on fairly low yield rural roads. One of the best fit uses that we've been able to identify after doing our own research and consulting with the Virginia Economic Development Partnership and seeing some examples where data centers were converted were vertical farming operations. There's growing demand from them. It's a potential best fit candidate for data center use conversions in the future. And some of the things that we noted from our analysis is that the total number of farms within Spotsylvania County is decreasing while average farm acreage is increasing, which means there's less operators and those operators that are left are either corporate operators or farmers that are remaining or just acquiring additional land to increase the size of their own farms. The vertical farming operations are less susceptible to outdoor climate-related impacts because they're managed indoors. One of the Really, frankly, major points that I wanted to emphasize too in our findings is that the average age of primary farm operators in Spotsylvania County has been increasing. It's 62 as of the 2022 census of agriculture. That's a real concern if you don't have, and that's one of the reasons that we really did look at the Spotsylvania County Schools and FFA programs and what are we doing to bring a new generation into agriculture. But this is a trend where we're seeing these farm numbers decreasing, the average age increasing. These are concerns that we have, and at the end of the day, food is really king. It's absolutely crucial for the sustenance of the population. So again, in this case, there's also shared interest with the Virginia Economic Development Partnership. They have a website on this. This is something that we suggested, and it's something that ultimately propels out of this sub-chapter into the land use chapter as a recommendation. Production of food and fiber also promotes homesteading as I had stated earlier on things like the farmer's market and agriculture and some of the things that we did for Right to Farm. This is supported by the county's Ag Forestal Committee. Homesteading is aimed at the community education and resources for basically growing your own food type of initiatives, have your own eggs in the backyard, promoting homesteading friendly code revisions, such as that that we had brought forth within a year or so ago, supports agriculture and local farm to table, considers developing a farm and homesteading directory. This would be something for folks to find products or services related to homegrown agriculture. And also I'd note that the farmer's market can play a role in this. Before we get to the specific questions you may have for our guests this evening, I just wanted to go over the next steps. If applicable, staff will draft any additional edits to the subject matter discussed today. Future planning commission meetings would include subchapter 2A on economic development and tourism. We plan to pair that with chapter one introduction and vision chapter. That'll come up in the July 15th meeting. And then we'll be wrapping up the chapters through work sessions for your land use chapter and map updates. That's likely in August. Thank you.

Chairman. Yes, sir. How many farms do we actually have in Spotsylvania County?

One moment.

I don't think we have any more dairy farms, do we? Not that I'm aware of unless it's down in Berkeley District or Levinson.

Well, this is just the latest census of agriculture. This is a 2022 figure. The number of farms in Spotsylvania County was 281. Land and farms in acres was 39,666 acres, and both of those were declining since 2017. The number of farmers were down 17 from 2017, and so those numbers have been declining. Now, if you give me a few minutes, you may want to ask some of our experts here. I'll try to look and see if I can find any more recent numbers for you.

Okay. All right.

Have you heard of the term agrivoltaic?

Yes, sir, so agrivoltaics, that is something that within our solar energy policy that when we bring it back in August, that's something that we've suggested adding to the solar energy policies that of the remaining 1,800 acres that the county had set aside for potential expansion or new solar energy facilities, the county did set a suggested cap on solar energy facilities outside the primary development boundary. One of the suggestions would be that solar energy facilities outside the primary development boundary not solely be solar energy facilities. They actually act as solar agrivoltaics. So they essentially have active agriculture going on underneath them. So they maintain their agricultural soils, agricultural use, kind of a two for benefit. We have proposed that as part of the land use update, yes.

Is there a typical crop that would survive in that condition where they have panels over them?

I would defer to our farming community that's here this evening. Thank you. All right, thanks.

I think it'd be real tough to harvest something under solar panels, what I've seen, but.

Yeah, the examples I saw are raised beds that surround the poles that support the solar panels. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, there are instances like even with the current solar energy facility that we have right now where I believe they've unleashed sheep or goats for sheep out there. That could be an opportunity. I know that there's been promotion of like wildflowers and things for pollinator type of plants and things of that nature within the existing solar energy facility that we have. But in terms of crop growth, I'd have to defer.

Is the gentleman over here, is he from the agriculture department? Yes, sir. I've got a quick question for you. I don't want to sound like I'm on a bandwagon now, but since our General Assembly has been kicking around approving cannabis here and it's going to happen, do you all anticipate any additional farming for cannabis? I didn't know we had a farm, but there's a pretty big one down in Caroline County. I mean, we haven't talked about it.

So I farm wine for a living and it's very controlled. And so I imagine cannabis farming is gonna be just as controlled. I don't see it really taking off like a commercial grower of it because I think it's gonna be so controlled, but we have not talked about it at all.

Okay. I was just curious because, I mean, I was reading an article and it's going to be taxed 6% the first two years and go to the 8%. But it's, you know, you've got to get it medically checked and yada, yada, yada.

Yeah, you have to check all the oils and stuff. And I know when farming, you know, fiber like hemp first came around, it was the same thing. There was a farm doing it over in Orange, and they have ceased production of it because it was such –

But the guy down Caroline seemed to be doing pretty good. But he was really upset when it got vetoed by Spanberger, but now it looks like it's back. So I was just wondering. I thought it might be something for my retirement.

To answer your question, there are no dairies in Spotsylvania anymore. OK, that's all. Also, growing underneath a solar panel, I've seen pictures that you were talking about of raised beds under there. We do not do that. The solar farm is only grazing sheep and native grasses under there. I really can't see growing a tomato under a solar panel, because you can't get light to it.

Right. Yeah, because all the ones I've seen, they were low to the ground. I haven't seen ones up on poles.

Yeah, I've seen them up on poles, but I mean.

Any other questions for this gentleman while we have him up here? All right, thank you, sir. Thank you. Do you have any input for us? Anything positive that you can enlighten us on?

Yeah. So we do agriculture and forestry. We do appreciate the approval of the abattoir by you all and passing it through. Because bringing more agricultural businesses into the county, such as something like that, actually improves the businesses that are already here and growing. I've talked to a number of farmers who are excited that there is a possibility. Fauquier's Finest is the closest abattoir to us and they have a 14 month waiting list on steers right now.

Is that right?

Yeah, so we are very appreciative of your committee and all your work to bring agricultural businesses to our county and keep agricultural as part of our rule characteristics.

Okay, maybe through your department you could help us get somebody to regulate it a little bit more. Nobody wanted to take responsibility for the lagoon where it was going to be washed. And that was kind of an issue with all of us. And I'm sure the board's going to have the same type of issue. So if it is something positive for the county, maybe somebody in your department or

Yeah, we can follow up with soil and water and DEQ on it.

That's no problem. I think it wound up being checked by DEQ. Is that right? DEQ. Yeah. All right. We'd greatly appreciate that. Because if it is a positive thing, and like I said, it was probably a 50-50 crapshoot if it was going to pass originally. But Mr. Wood kind of saved it by knowing some people that had the need.

Yeah, it's a very big need. We were just talking about homesteaders. i get a phone call probably once every two weeks you know hey we've raised this steer we've raised this lamb and now we don't know what to do because you know everybody's booked up and what do i do with it well i don't think you should have thought about that before you raised it all right but well yeah we'd like to pass this information on to the board about how well it's is what the need is please yeah thank you sir all right thank you

Okay, and then I just wanna reiterate, just because housing is such a hot topic, we do have some really good experts here this evening if you have questions on housing as well, thanks.

Okay, all right.

I would have a question for the housing experts, and I ask this everywhere I go to try to get information, as much information as possible, and correct me if I'm wrong, but is the biggest driver of housing prices, as far as percentage of the reason why prices are going up, is it inflationary costs of materials? Because that's what I've been told a couple times. I just want to get confirmation if that's what you have seen in the industry as well.

Are all of y'all housing experts? Is that what you, no? What part are you here for? I'm just curious.

Member of the public.

Oh, just the public, okay. You're quite welcome to be here. Thank you for coming.

Good evening, my name is Jay Hicks. Mr. Grenaux, my grandfather built a lot of those 1,200 square foot houses back in the day, and they did go, thankfully, like hotcakes and changed the course of my family's life. So as a portion of this and a representative of the Builders Association, I'd like to remind everybody that being in the construction field is one of the best ways to democratically achieve wealth in our country. It's you're working for yourself, and it's a great way to, you're working with many other people, you're working on projects together, it helps bring communities together, but it's an important part of our local economy. As far as experts, I guess I'm representing, as president of the Builders Association, Fredericksburg Area Builders Association, I also serve as chairman of the Regional Housing Assembly, which is a subset of the George Washington Regional Commission charged with targeting affordable housing and trying to become an influencer in some ways of bringing it more to the forefront of our communities and make it part of the conversation like we are tonight. As far as an expert, I don't know how much of an expert I am. I think you've got one of the finest experts that we have in the area in Jacob Pastwick here. The things that he's presenting to you are really the answers heading towards solutions for the housing problems that we have in our community and the lack of supply, which really drives the prices that we're talking about. To your question, to try and address that, we generally look at about 30 to 40% of our costs, but it's a combination of things. I call it the triad, and in order to really achieve what we think of as would be affordable housing and low-income housing that's purchasable, you need some combination, or at least one of the triad to give a little bit. It's either the person building or developing has to give it in a certain way, the government has to cut their regulations, or somehow you're getting some good materials. And then land costs. Land is expensive these days and the data centers aren't helping that around here very much. But getting back to Jacob, the things he's proposing is really how we maintain the rural aesthetics that we love about Spotsylvania County. It's about concentrating where the development really already is. And as far as small builders are concerned, we still need some of the rural area. It's a real pinch on those folks to find affordable land to build on. So, it's important to maintain that stock as well. But when we're talking about the population growth that we're going to be having, the density that's going to be required for our area, we're really talking about the reinvestment, the redevelopment that Jacob was mentioning, as well as taking advantage of those greenfield, infield projects that can be utilized. I kind of lost my track, sorry. We, going back to something else you said, Mr. Grunow, it was mentioned earlier, is that the mobile home situation. That's Richmond. That's the legislators in Richmond, and Richmond's coming for you guys. They're not gonna let up. The conversation regularly, daily, hourly in Richmond in the legislature is about pressure on local jurisdictions to require, and not ask, but require you guys to change your housing approach. And the way you battle that is come up with creative ideas like Jacob was presenting to you guys tonight, to accommodate that growth. This is where I was going before. I had the benefit of working with a professor from the University of Washington. We had a project in Stafford that we utilized him for, and he did a survey. We lit a fire in him, so to speak, for the 55 and over community. He did a survey for us and then he took that information and he did a demographic study for the whole region. And he estimates for the Fredericksburg region in the next five years, we're gonna have a growth of 20 to 22,000 people, new people coming into the area that are gonna need housing. Out of those, we're gonna need 20,000 units, excuse me. Out of those 20,000 units, because of the change in the demographics of our population and the advancement of the aging portion of our population, we're gonna need 12 to 13,000 55 and over housing units. So there's a tremendous pressure on our area from new people coming in. And another driver of the costs, it's an interesting comparison because nobody really wants apartments.

Thank you.

Everybody would prefer to own or have somebody purchase their home, but I don't know whether that's the reality of our economics today. And the way I kind of think about it is that we've been, there's an effort to, well, people are coming down from Northern Virginia and paying $800,000, a million dollars for a home. They're moving into our area. While many of you may know people, if not in your own family, young people that are struggling to find a unit to be able to live in. That apartment situation, that townhouse situation is a bridge into housing for those people. And renting, unfortunately, it's an option, and it's becoming more popular. I'm in the building industry, so I'd rather see people build and buy, so that's not my argument there. But as far as the Regional Housing Assembly and the need for affordability, it is the bridge into housing for so many young people. And people worry about school impacts in those situations, but you'll find uh, stats, plenty of statistics that will tell you that those are, that's contrary trend. There's a lot of people that are looking for those smaller options, low maintenance options, uh, that don't have children and things of that nature. So keeping your mind open to those kinds of things. Uh, Mr. Bruno, you mentioned the time it took to get downtown to Fredericksburg to go to a nice restaurant. Well, how about we get some nice restaurants in spots of any county? All right. Those types of things are gonna occur around commercial centers that are, in today's world, built off multi-use opportunities which will incorporate apartments to a greater extent and townhouses that will generate the people that are required to bring a nice business into the area. So keep your mind open to that idea as well because I think it's, Downtown Fredericksburg is a gem for our area, but there's no reason why Stafford County, Spotsylvania County can't have their own commercial center where they can have their own nice things to be proud of as well and have their own people want to go and enjoy them. Workforce housing. We need to find the passion for allowing our people that work for us in our jurisdiction to be able to live in our jurisdiction. And those are not gonna be the $800,000 houses. They're gonna be the infill properties on the smaller scale that Jacob was talking about. And the idea is the infill is one thing, the redevelopment's one thing. Really the idea that kind of feels like it's catching fire a little bit is this market-driven flex. It really gives the opportunity to create a community again. You're going to have varying scales of economics within a neighborhood. You're going to have varying sizes. You're going to have different levels of age in people. So coming back, hopefully, to the beginning and making some sense to you all, you've heard the answers. My presentation today is more of argument and support thereof. But the answers are in front of you. It takes people like Jacob to have the courage to bring it up into a scenario like this, in a forum like this, where it's not altogether well received. But at some point, Spotsylvania County needs to realize that we've got a large population. There are portions of our county that are, while not urban, are urban-like, and maybe start treating those areas like that to preserve the things that we love most about the county. which certainly, for a lot of us, has been related on farm and agriculture and the beauty that exists here. So thank you for listening.

DAVID BURRAGE. Mr. Hicks, I'd just like to clarify. I don't head downtown too much, because it felt, the winter before last, I went down there to whatever bar is in the old JC Penney's. What's on that corner down there? I don't know. Anyway, I parked behind, and I came out three hours later, and I thought my truck was stolen. Come to find out, it was shanks. Yeah, shanks got me. And I couldn't get it till Sunday morning.

DAVID BURRAGE. I may have experienced that a time or two as well.

DAVID BURRAGE. Downtown's a parking issue. But no, I like out here. I like the Mexican restaurant. Now, we don't have a Bonefish or Carrabba's. out in Spotsylvania yet, but.

They're coming.

Could you say a little more, though, about that commercialized center in Spotsy area? Where would you see something like that happening?

It's where you get the most bang for your buck. And you start to get the accoutrements, the things that people want, the businesses that people want. When you have a commercial business, they come into a location and they draw a circle around the location that they're interested in. And then they count rooftops. And if they don't have the sufficient rooftops, I think we just experienced it out here with the grocery store for Courthouse Commons. They didn't believe there were gonna be enough rooftops to deliver to support the grocery store that a lot of people would have loved to have had there. I don't know how many of you are familiar with Emery Mill in Stafford County, at Stafford Courthouse. My goodness, I don't think I could provide a better example of the combination and execution of what people say they're looking for when they're not stuck in Route 3 traffic. There were 1,800 residential units provided there that came first. They phased over it. They weren't all 1,800 there at the same time, but phased into that. Then you had a wonderful recreation center that was delivered. And now, if you go up there to the strip center that's there, they have the Publix that we wanted here at Courthouse Commons, and they have every little retail restaurant business that people would say they would love to have, and they're busy. That little area right there is the example of what I would tell you the commercial center built around the opportunity to have residential support is all about.

So, Kimberly, is that done through economic development or planning?

It's a collaborative effort, but those discussions start with economic development and then planning. To be frank, it starts with a commitment and a will. to things that we're talking about right now, and they're recognizing that density is required, and that involves more people, but that all supports itself. If the commercial is viable enough, then it's gonna support the schools.

So would you agree that maybe in the Kalahari, that would be a great place to start?

I didn't understand the name that you said. Kalahari, Thornburg comes to mind as an area that is an opportunity for Spotsylvania not to do Route 3 again. Route 17, 610 in Stafford, Route 3 in Spotsylvania, or what I call granddaddy was on the Board of Supervisors at the time. Good old boy planning, there was no planning. If a business wanted to come, and they said they wanted to be on this property, it was giving the thumbs up. Thank you for being here, put your business. And that's what happened down Route 3. That's what happened down Route 70. There was no consideration for anything that Jacob and Kim are doing. They are in place to take care of this and advise you guys on how to do it right and how to do it in a way that's gonna be best for the citizens of Spotsylvania County.

Could we get a meeting with Economic Development? Could they come in and give us a presentation?

OK. Thank you.

Mr. Higgins, I just want to point out something. You talk about the apartments maybe being a solution. But I've got a family member that's a manager at the factory. Their one bedroom unit start at $1,700 and go up to $2,100 for a one bedroom unit. And these people can afford to pay that, but they don't have the dollars for down payment on a home. So to me, I don't know how. Now, they aren't, somebody's not saving. I mean, if you can spend that, but that goes back to parking, which is a bug for me, because these one-bedroom units, there's two people in them, and two vehicles outside, and we only require one parking space, and that's an issue to me. But 1,700 bucks is a starting price for a one-bedroom unit.

I'm not even trying to have, I wouldn't be able, I don't want to support an argument against what you're saying there. But I, it's, It's tough. It's a tough one, and tonight's discussion really isn't about apartments in my mind. Right. It's about finding a solution with the 1,200 square foot, 1,500 square foot house again, which I do think would sell like hotcakes, and giving an opportunity with this market flex, which is really something that I bought into where you get that variety of product, people, and free community.

Let me ask you a question. Yes, sir. your family background in building, not yours necessarily, but it might have been. I missed it. But if you're building a 1,500 square unit, what's the most you could pay for a lot, do you think?

Well, that's where I think in a project with the market flex, you're going to create a situation where you're paying different values for the different size lots that can accommodate. what you're talking about, but anytime you're gonna build a house, it's generally, you can start at 30% of the value.

Right, so if you paid, I mean, it's a $200,000 home, or 250, is that affordable? Is that an affordable home? It is? Oh, absolutely. That lady behind you. Yeah, that would be tremendous.

In consideration that the county right now, as a developer, I'm not bringing a project to you where it shows that the house value is less than $400,000 because the county leaders at this time do not believe that a family in a house with a value of less than $400,000 will generate the tax income to support itself. And so that's the battle we're fighting, and they're all righteous points. But at some point, it's gonna be a breaking point, and I'd rather see our county advance and get ahead of it than suffer consequences.

Because I tell you, on housing, I don't see how you can hardly get under $100 a square foot now, even if you put in vinyl replacement windows and keep it as low ball as you can. I mean, still a heat pump and a sound home, but it's hard to get under $100 a square foot for the house.

I'd say help us get there to give us the opportunity and let's see how good we can do. Thank you for the opportunity, guys.

To Mr. Hicks' point, the one thing I want to emphasize is here, one thing I think Spotsylvania County has done well is that we've kept our comprehensive plan update homegrown. So what we're trying to do is, to his point, we're trying to come up with homegrown solutions to address these issues because inevitably I think there is a recognition that there is a significant crisis statewide and nationwide, frankly, on housing And what happens is if it's not being addressed locally, that issue festers and inevitably the state comes in and comes up with a forced solution on everyone. And it may not be well received in different locations or apply very well. So we have tried to address it. I did want to just quickly throw out in terms of numbers on inventory is of 2025 figures.

Yes, sir. I know you can't see it, but you got a speaker behind you.

Okay, I'm sorry. And you're right.

Mr. Chairman, I had a question, too, that might be for the gentleman that was just up here. But for a builder, what is the necessary profit margin to keep the business going and to provide for their family? Because obviously in economics, they have to be able to provide for their family and keep the business running.

I do not feel comfortable even trying to guess at an answer of that, because certainly I think that's, in some respects, up to the individual. Because there are certainly companies that are more charitable-minded in our community and others that are more profit-seeking, but the idea is efficiency and the best they can.

Do you have an estimate for this general area, on average?

I've absolutely never contemplated that question before, so I apologize.

Mr. Wood, I can give you a little highlight on that. If you're a big builder and have superintendents and salespeople on staff, you're looking at 25%. Just cover your costs and make a decent profit. When I ran my little business, initially I was running on about 12%. But I was the salesperson. I trimmed carpenter with my guy and all that. But I mean, you don't see that anymore nowadays. I can name a dozen builders out there that have never had a hammer in their hand. And they got people that's, I've got a good friend that's a builder, and he never sees his clients, period. His salespeople sell for him, all he wants to see is a closing statement. But when you got a couple models here and there and sales that you're paying and superintendents, your margins have to go up just to cover your costs.

I don't want to steal Jacob's thunder, but I had some numbers I wanted to share with you all. My name is Kim McClellan. I work for the Fredericksburg Realtors. I'm also the president of Central Virginia Housing, and happy to be here tonight. Thank you so much to Jacob and Kimberly for inviting us. So Jay's talking about new construction, but my members sell existing homes. We're beginning to resale. So just to put some numbers to it, for us it is an inventory issue and has been for quite a while. When I look back 10 years ago, June of 2016, we had about 700 homes in the market. We've really struggled to hit that 400 home mark the last couple of years. It's getting better, but it's slowly improving and we make gains and we fall back below that 400 number. So just to see the vast difference, and 2016 was a great market. That was not a down market. My members would say 2016 was a good year. We're seeing just still constrained inventory. And then on the flip side, we have sales price that have doubled in 10 years. When I look back at June of 2016, 250 was our median price. We're almost $500,000 right now in Spotsylvania County. So it's a huge difference. And when you're saying a $250,000 house, that does not exist even in the resale market. Certainly not one you can move into. So my members would sell tons of $250,000 houses. We've kind of targeted, we think $250,000 at this point is probably unrealistic for the market, but if we could get something in the three to 425 range, that would be amazing and it would open up a whole nother category of homes for folks who are looking. Because most people who are looking for an affordable home are not buying new, that's just reality. I did look up Marley Manor, they're 55 plus, it starts at 470 for a 1300 square foot duplex. So, you know, we're looking at resales where there's a lot of affordability and certainly in attached resale. Your townhouses.

Is that a single family or is that one of their duplexes?

It's a duplex, 55 and older community, if that's the one I'm thinking of. Atlantic Builders off Levels Road, yeah. It's 475. 470. Yeah, starting at. That's a lot.

Thank you. I didn't mean to interrupt. Are you finished, ma'am? Okay. Unless you all have questions. All right. Thank you. Anybody else out there have anything to contribute to Jacob's presentation? There we go. Did I entice you up here? Of course.

Okay. I'm Sam Shoukas. I'm the Housing and Community Health Program Director at the George Washington Regional Commission. So I help to staff both the Regional Housing Assembly but also the continuum of care. And so I think one thing too that hasn't been mentioned so far tonight is homelessness. So just to give you a little bit of information, Spotsylvania County actually has the highest homeless student population in the entire region.

Homeless students.

Yes. So I think, in particular, when we're talking about affordable housing, for that market in particular, we are talking more rental-based. So those are folks who are currently in your schools, K through 12. So it wouldn't be any children who are under the age of five. But you have the highest population in the entire region. At one point, you had more homeless students in Spotsylvania than all other counties combined. So it's a huge population issue that we're having here. In particular, we're looking at folks who are in your lower income but also in your workforce, whether it be in retail or in restaurants, who are working but are still struggling to make ends meet.

When you say homeless, where are they living?

Yeah, so many of them for Spotsylvania will be in motels. So hotels and motels is a big source of homelessness for Spotsylvania. We also do have a domestic violence shelter within Spotsylvania County. Many of them will be bused back to their school of origin, even though they might seek shelter elsewhere. So they could live at Thurman Brisbane, they could be at a Micah House or Lois Ann's Hope House, which is actually in the city, but because they were with Spotsylvania when they became homeless, they would remain in your schools.

So the school buses are coming to the hotels?

So we do an annual point in time count. I know Jacob provided those numbers in the draft for your housing section. They are relatively low for Virginia. We have about, on any given night, 180 people who are experiencing homelessness, and only 12 of them are outside, which is a good thing. You will see that increase in your summers, which is when you have a little bit more of that. We've worked really closely with your law enforcement officers about and cleanups and how we partner with those who are causing issues. I also will say, I think, when we're looking at housing in general, we are talking about the ones who are working within your county, mostly your first responders. You just opened the VA. Where do nurses live? Where do your teachers go? If they're not being paid high enough in Spotsylvania, they will go to the next place, even if they start to live here. And so we're trying to figure out exactly what is the answer, and I think it is a balance of how do we help with the rental market for those who are on the lower income side and are trying to work towards their first home, but also doing an affordable starting price for those who are in your first responders and workforce.

So you classify people homeless if they're living in hotels and motels?

The Department of Education does. If you go by the housing and urban development definition, homelessness is someone who's living in an emergency shelter, on the street, in a car, or some other place not meant for habitation, like an abandoned building. For the Department of Education, it also counts those who are doubled up, so it could be people who are sleeping on a friend's couch, a cousin's couch, who are couch hopping, or living in a motel.

My understanding, some of these motels probably have six or seven people living in a room. Is that a possibility?

It is a possibility. I think it comes to whatever your zoning is or what the enforcement of that looks like about legality of that, but I think most people are just trying to figure it out and do whatever it can, especially if they have children, to not have children outside.

Thank you. The ones in hotels or motels, are they generally getting a federal or state subsidy, too, to pay to the motels?

No, most of them will be paying for the motel themselves. And so sometimes what I have heard is a motel rent is easier than trying to juggle rent payment and your lights and your insurance and your all the things where you just pay one. one expense and it's already wrapped up in there. Anyone who has children who is in school and is living in a motel will receive McKinney-Vento services through the schools. So it may encompass like food security things or case management or stuff like that. But for the actual expense of their housing, they will be trying to pay themselves.

And I can speak to that, too. I know working in the school system, we have social workers that work with the McKinney-Vento students and try to find resources for those families.

Yeah, I've actually seen mothers walking children to Route 1 to catch a school bus at that motel that's kind of tucked in there perpendicular to the old Howard Johnson's. I think there's several families back in there and school buses stopping on Route 1. I don't know, I'll tell you what. It's gonna take somebody smarter than us up here to solve these problems. I don't know how it's gonna happen. But I'm glad to know about them.

I was gonna say, I think Sam may be able to echo this as well. I think there is also a recognized need for regional collaboration on the expansion of available shelter beds as well. And that's something that we have mentioned in the plan update. Thank you, ma'am. If that's all you have.

Yes. I did have another question. What you had said earlier about, for whoever can answer, the affordability issue, what is causing it. I did read an article, I don't know, maybe last year, late in the year, and they were talking about restricting corporations from buying large amounts of either single family or apartment complexes where they're either holding onto them or they're flipping them, and then that's artificially causing a rise. And it only seemed like it was hot spots throughout the country, so I don't know if that's the case for our county or not.

Yeah, thank you, that's a great question. We're actually commissioned a study that's gonna come out in September, looking at the penetration of investor-owned housing. For us, it's just single-family homes. I don't know about apartment buildings necessarily, but it's just, it's not a phenomenon that we're seeing being widespread here because the cost of homes is so high. You usually have those companies coming in where they can get inexpensive homes, you know, in big census blocks. Think like, you know, downtown Atlanta, Charlotte, we saw that a lot in Baltimore had that issue, but we don't see that here just because our housing stock is so expensive. There's not a huge return on that kind of investment at this point, but we'll have hard numbers to share with you all in September, but I don't think that is driving the cost of single-family home rentals in Spotsylvania County at all. We see a lot of military families who have that as a residence that they couldn't sell or didn't want to, and they put that in the rental pool, and then they're pretty expensive. Single-family home rentals are pricey, but it's not because of investor owners.

Thank you. Any other questions from the

I did have one other question. I'm kind of switching gears because it caught my mind. To farming, because we're talking about the supply of housing, due to farmers in Spotsylvania County, have you seen a trend even in the state or nationwide of there being a food shortage issue in America due to the decrease in farming? Or has that not hit that level at this point?

It looks like it's going to flap fly.

Personally, I don't know the answer to that. I do think there is possibility for food insecurity in this country. I mean, there's less farmers. I mean, I can tell you the farmers that are what I would call doing well are 100 pounds overweight, eat at a gas station, and have stress beyond belief. I think, personally, I think there's a trend to more smaller operations. I mean, not in my lifetime, but Mr. Garneau can attest. Back in the day, there was at least six dairies in Spotsylvania, and you knew your farmer because that's where you went and got your eggs, you got your milk from the dairy. The Mall was actually a dairy at one point, if I'm not mistaken. all before my lifetime. So I do think there is probably gonna be a shift to more know your producer type thing. We are in a drought. I can tell you that the wheat crop in not only the state but nationwide was the smallest it's been in 65 years. So that's gonna add to some stress. I'm gonna tell you that. Corn crop's probably not going to be too good this year, but there is a surplus, so we'll see how that affects the market. Beef is through the roof right now, so grain's low, livestock's high. We might see... You'll probably see some of the beef prices stay high, but you'll see more beef on the market because with the drought, there's less forage. I know of a few farmers in the area already that have downsized their herd. I'm also a commercial hay farmer, and I'm telling you that I've sold more hay this year to livestock producers than horse people. and they will pay the price. They'll be like, what do you want for bail? Boom, I'll tell them. Okay, cool, and they'll buy everything to support not only their livelihood, but their lives and their livestock. So do I think there's a food shortage? I think there's an opportunity to be some food insecurities in this country. But the American farmer has never let this country starve, and I don't think they will. I think they will rise to the occasion like always. But knowing your provider is a good thing at this time. Also, I brought up the abattoir. The largest meat processor in Virginia did close up this last month. So having a local where you can go and purchase beef or purchase chicken, whatever, is a good thing. I'm also seeing other farmers like Morris Farms, Stephen Morris, and Cutler Blankenship are rising to the occasion. And they are producing meat chickens, and they are selling them at a reasonable price. So farmers always rise to the occasion, or the backbone of America, I'd like to say. I don't think you have anything to worry about. But little prayers, a little rain goes a long way right now, folks. So we appreciate your prayers, your support, and everything.

So I'm just curious. A baler hay is selling for what? Because I purchased a baler straw for $9 at Lowe's.

Really? That's a good deal.

Is that a good price?

Yeah.

I thought it was terrible.

I mean, I might buy a whole truckload and resell it. I'll be honest. I'm selling first cutting hay for $12 a bale. My bales are...

I'm talking about small.

Yeah, I know. They're 18 by 36. They're $12 a bale. I would not be surprised if you don't see the small square bale somewhere around the $15, $18 mark this winter.

Well, you know, you talk about housing. If you're not putting down side, you got to put straw on top of your yard when you grade the yards. And man, it's all just slipping up there.

Large round bales for livestock. they won't be around this winter. Because a hay producer, you know, we take out a loan every year for whatever, usually fertilizer for hay crops are $147, $150 an acre. We're getting a quarter of what we normally produce, so I'll put it in the smaller square before I put it in the round bale, because I can't ask. There's 18 squares in a round, roughly. It's $252. If I told somebody I want $252 for a round bale, they'd look at me like I was crazy. But if I tell them I want $12 for a square bale, they're like, well, that's a little expensive.

And fertilizer's gone crazy, too.

Fertilizer has gone crazy. It is on the way down. Secretary Rawlings has, you know, done some good things to help bring it down. Also, I'm seeing the price of diesel go down, which helps. I mean, I filled up my tank. It was just shy of $4,500 the last time. That lasted maybe a month. So I'll fill up. Hopefully it'll be a little cheaper this time. It'll all be fine. I mean, I have faith that, you know, God will provide on this and with prayers and support from the community, we'll be fine.

It might just get a little tough in between. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you. Any other commissioners have any comments? Is there anybody here? Jacob, do you have any more?

No, I'm all set. Thank you.

Okay. Are we all three in the audience? Does anybody else have any input that could be positive? All right, seeing none, thank you, Jacob, as usual. And thank Kim and Jay Hicks for your input. And the other lady, I missed your name, I'm sorry, from the George Washington District, I believe it was. Thank you. Entertain a motion to adjourn. We have public comment, sir. Was this? The public company, everybody's talking already. Is there anybody else in public need to talk?

Well, there's this couple here.

The couple. Yeah. I asked them earlier. I thought they were just listening. Do you have any comments?

Yeah, thank you. OK. OK.

Appreciate it. Yeah. They kind of shook their head earlier when I asked if they were out there.

Thanks for hanging in there.

But thank you for reminding me. Entertainer, Kimberly, is there anything you need to remind us of before we adjourn? Okay. Motion to adjourn. These two are going July 15th. You're here. You're here. I'm here. And I checked with Alan. He's going to be here. So we've got a quorum for July 15th. Motion to adjourn, please.

Motion to adjourn. Motion made in second. Aye.

Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

Thank you for the roll call, Paul.

And have a great day.