Zoning Board Meetings - Regular Meeting

to order. This meeting is being livereamed on YouTube. No new business, testimony, or applications will be conducted after 9:30 p.m. And the meeting will adjourn at 10 p.m. sharp. Advocate notice of this meeting was provided in the New Jersey Herald. It was also posted on the Sparta Township website and its bulletin board in accordance with all provisions of the Open Public Meetings Act. Also, formal action by this board may or may not may or may not be taken tonight on the applications that are on the agenda. It's the practice of this board to salute the flag. Please rise and join us. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Marissa, please call the role. Sure. Lena Tineri, here. Michael Joseph, here. Richard Larua here. Michael Leondi here. Richard Roarbacker here. Jennifer Naha here. Chairman Kenneth Lowry here. And Glenn Ke here. Thank you, Commissioner. We have some resolutions to be memorialized tonight. First one is application 7-22. Andrew Mueller for extension of time. Oh, excuse me. Yeah, that's right. Extension of time decided on June 25th, 2025. Do I have a motion? So move. Second, please. Second.

Any discussion? Marissa, please call the role. Literary. Yes. Richard Roarbacker. Yes. Jennifer Paha. Yes. Chairman Kenneth Larry. Yes. Next one is application 15-24. Nancy Hodkins receive variance relief decided on June 25th, 2025. The chair will entertain a motion. So move. Second, please. Second. Any discussion? Marissa, please call the role. Literary, yes. Richard Roarbacker, yes. Jennifer Paha, yes. Chairman Kenneth Larry,

yes. Final one is application 4-25 for Paul Melinda Howalerin receive variance relief decided on July 9th, 2025. The chair will entertain a motion. So move. Second, please. Second. Any discussion? Marissa, please call the role. Lena Tineri, yes. Michael Jophic, yes. Jennifer Panaha, yes. Chairman Kenneth Larry, yes. We also have minutes to be approved from September 27th, 2023. The chair will entertain a motion. So moved. Second, please. Second. Any discussion? Marissa, please call the role. Literary, yes. Michael, yes. Richard Larufa,

yes. Michael Leondi, yes. Richard Robacker, yes. Chairman Kenneth Larry, yes. We also have minutes from June 25th, 2025 to be approved. The chair will entertain a motion. So move. Second, please. Second. Any discussion? Marissa, please call the role. Lena Teneri, yes. Richard Roarbacker, yes. Jennifer Paha, yes. Chairman Kenfl,

yes. for the applications tonight on this agenda are the following application 6-25 firehouse apartments for Dvariance relief and that's a D2 variance relief for the expansion of a non-conforming use in that zone. Also application 7-25 66 Woodcourt LLC for D1 variance relief since billboards are not our permitted use in that zone. Also application 8-25 yippy arts for D1 variance relief since the instructional classes are not permitted in that zone and also application 5-24 Main Street Creations for an extension of time and the following two applications will be carried application 6-23 3 elite truck and tire for D1 variance relief which is for a use or principal structure not permitted in that zone will be carried with no further notice to September 10th 2025. Also application 1-25 Lewis Peralta for D2 variance relief and that's for an expansion of a nonconforming use in that zone and that'll be carried to September 10th, 2025 with no further notice. and Glenn, our board attorney, just for the record, the members here that were not here for those applications that I just mentioned for carrying further notice, they'll have to listen to the YouTube and tapes, etc.

Uh, tapes or however, however is doing it, Mr. Chairman. Yes, Marissa. That's how they doing now with the links to the YouTube or the tapes. Uh, we could do we could do both. Both. I think I think the tapes are I don't know how good YouTube is. I mean, if it's matter of fact, I'll ask because I was just talking to Rich about this. You think it's equal to the tapes and they would be able to pick up everything, Rich? Probably. Yeah. The the one case I I watched on the YouTube, it was it was good because you could also see the reaction of the people and the way the presentations are made

because that's not the official record of the board. And that's why I'm asking the tape is the official record. But if it substitutes and they can hear everything and you felt comfortable and you've been doing this for long enough that you you know that it wasn't working so good. So yes, either YouTube or the tapes. So nothing can come back Glenn since it's not the official record like the tapes versus the YouTube in terms of an applicant. Then I I I would prefer you to listen to the tapes. But if if this is a new this is a new world that we're in, Mr. Chairman. So YouTube is kind of the way we're going and if it's not being edited and it's not being changed and it's just starting from the beginning and going to the end then I I think it probably constitutes

so it would be legal then as a bottom line so an applicant couldn't come back somewhere down the line and no they can come back and say anything they want but I'm not going to let them get away with it. How's that? All right. Thank you. And after all the applications are heard tonight, I'll open the hearing to the public for any questions or comments they may have on items not on this agenda tonight. So, first uh application 5-24 Main Street uh creations, please come forward. Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Good evening. Mr. Simmons not here tonight. No, you don't need him. Let's Why do you need the extension of time, Mr. Hooker. Well, we've been working with Mr. Simmons.

Mr. Hooker, can you please use the microphones? It's a state requirement that we have a recording of all proceedings.

I always feel like I'm going to break out in song when I get in front of one of these. Excuse me if I do. The um we've been working with Mr. Simmons's office on the language. Uh there's several um deeds and easements uh including with the railroad on this property that have made the completion of of all that work difficult. We submitted several documents to Mr. Simmons's office on June 20th. Uh we haven't gotten feedback from Mr. Simmons yet, and the uh tomorrow is the last day of our approvals. So, we're here tonight seeking a one-year extension um of those approvals uh so that we can continue to work with Mr. Simmons and his office to get everything done in a timely and efficient manner.

Todd, but for that factor, you would be ready, willing, and able to proceed. Is that correct? Correct. That's the standard under the municipal and use law. Mr. Chairman, that's really all you need. All right. Great. Thank you. Okay. Well, wait. It didn't happen yet. Um, for the extension of time, do I have a motion, please? I move that we do extend for one year the application uh '0524. Thank you, Richard. A second, please. Second. Okay, just hold on one second. Is there any public hear on this application? Okay, Mr. chairman. I didn't think they would have to comment on something like that.

You never want to take the chance. So, you give them a chance because they might say they didn't do anything. It's a terrible whatever. You just give them the chance to get fetch. All right. Thank you. Any discussion? Marissa, please call the role. Landon Tineri. Yes. Michael Joseph, yes. Richard Larufa, yes. Michael Leone, yes. Richard Roarbacker, yes. Jennif Jennifer Paha, yes. Chairman Kenneth Larry. Yes. Okay, sir. Thank you. I'm actually going to stick around because I have two of the applications you're going to hear. I just I I I didn't I should have kept track during the roll call. Are there seven voting members here tonight? Yes. Perfect. Thank you very much.

All right. You're welcome. Applications 6-25 Firehouse Apartments for D2 variance expansion of a non-conforming use. Please come forward. Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. I'm John Ersen from the law firm of Shank Price, and I'm here representing Firehouse Apartments LLC. In this application, we will have three witnesses tonight. I think they will be relatively brief as uh uh the application is is somewhat easy to explain. Uh rather than give an overview uh if it's if it's okay with the chairman, I'll just jump right into

asking Mr. Leo asking Mr. Leo to be sworn in so that we can uh get him to testify with respect to the background. of his so kind. Do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth of proceedings before the board tonight. So I hope you got Yes, I do. What is your name, sir? Gregory Leo, L E Oo.

Hey John. Yeah, Mr. Leo. Uh, let me just explain the format, sir. First of all, sir,

after you and your professionals present your client's application and finish that up, our board professionals will give their reports. Our planner Lindsay Knight, David Simmons, isn't here tonight, but we have his report that we'll go over with your professionals. And then after we're finished, the board members who have questions and comments will go next. After we're finished, we'll open it to the public for any comments or questions they have on the application. And for the record, I know you you realize it's a Dvariance. You'll need five yes votes to approve it. And if it is approved, the Dvarian will be tied to the land in perpetuity. And then also, please speak clearly and directly into the microphones for the recordings. And how can we help you? We'll jump right into the background. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

You're welcome. Mr. Leo, uh, could you tell the board your connection to this building? Um, I purchased this building about 15 years ago from the township at auction when it was a one-story firehouse building. Um, and then we proceeded to add the two additional stories to the top of that. For many, many years, we had our um, real estate development offices on the first floor and we had uh, five apartments above us. And then a couple of years ago, we came in when offices were no longer needed and uh we asked if we could um change our office into an apartment, a sixth apartment. And this board, the zoning board at the time approved that.

I remember the application. So So uh and since that time, there's been six apartments in this building. Correct. And this uh uh and you live there? Yes, we live on the top floor. Okay. And on the top floor, there is a two-bedroom apartment. Correct. Okay. And you're here tonight uh to ask the board to separate the two-bedroom apartment on the third floor into two one-bedroom apartments? Yes, I am. And that would make this building have seven apartments instead of six. Correct.

And could you tell the board uh what the reason for you not needing the two-bedroom apartment anymore? Over the years, my wife and I um have consistently downsized as we got older. We had six children and we lived um up the street in a single family house with our six children for many years. When the first four got old enough to get out of the house, we moved then into the this building which we had owned for several years onto the top floor with our two youngests at the time who were uh seniors in high school. And the four of us lived there for several years, my uh twin boys who lived there with us. uh went to college down in in Florida. They never came back. We thought they might for a couple of years, but they've let us know emphatically that they're not. So now we're trying to downsize again. And um it's kind of uniquely designed as kind of the front of the building, the back of the building with a courtyard in between. Um so it's a we think it's a fairly simple split for two one-bedroom apartments. And as the the owner of the building and the landlord, do you prefer having one-bedroom apartments uh where you can because the building lends itself better to single people or couples?

It does. We have um of the six apartments, five are occupied by retired widows, very quiet. Um very nice building. Uh we have an elevator in the building which is helpful for that kind of demographic and age. Everybody has their own washer dryer. Um we have no extraneous um property right on the property lines. We're very well um situated with the country club across the street and White Deer Plaza and restaurants and whatnot. So it is our preference um to kind of keep that quiet occupancy that in fact we haven't had a child in the building since our two children left.

And as part of the application because uh there's your your planner will speak later. We'll get into the technicalities, but because the zone permits multif family with inclusionary affordable housing, you're offering to take one of the apartments and make it a uh affordable housing, a moderate affordable housing unit. We are. We understand that we'll have to deed restrict that for 30 years. We've I've built many apartments in the town and we've done that many times with the town. We've had moderate apartments deed restricted. So, I'm I'm kind of well aware of what goes into that and we're willing to do that.

Okay. So, why don't we introduce your architect so we can go over with the board specifically what's proposed and what's involved with the construction. Sure. And you could stay nearby. Mr. Chairman, we're calling Kurt Schmidt uh who is an architect to testify with respect to the proposed building that would separate the two apartments. Kurt, do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and proceedings before the board tonight? To help you God? I do. Kurt, you're a licensed professional architect in the state of New Jersey since 1985. And my license is current. And by whom are you employed? Self-employed. And where's your office? In Dendle, New Jersey.

Um, have you ever appeared before? I I believe I appeared before this board about 20 or so years ago. It was either this board or the planning board. I can't recall. That's fine. Yeah. Okay. Any problems? Any problems, questions from the board members? Okay. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, what's your preference for Mr. Schmidt testifying? Does he should I move the easel back so we can testify with the microphone? Oh, yes. You know what too, now we have a hand microphone that could be carried. So, that might work. And I don't And John, move it back just a little bit so people out in the audience.

And Mr. Smith, keep keep your testimony really narrow and to the point because essentially what this application is, just to frame it up, is that it's technically an expansion of a non-conforming use because you have a commercial structure in there and you're adding another residential uh and that essentially intensifies the use and that's all that the application is. And I think that's all that Mr. Uh Mr. Smeck is going to talk about too, right?

Um so, uh I understand. Mr. Schmidt, uh could you tell the board uh you were approached by Mr. Leo to take the two-bedroom apartment on the third floor and see if it could be split into two one-bedroom apartments? Correct. That's correct. And so for the board, let's start with uh could you give an opinion about whether the layout of the two-bedroom apartment lends itself well to be split into one-bedroom apartments?

Yes, we we believe it does. I I spent a good deal of time with Mr. Leo and working this out. And the apartment, the two apartments that are proposed here are divided more or less, as Mr. Leo mentioned, there's an interior court here on the third floor. So, we have two one-bedroom workable apartments and uh and each apartment when they're split uh will have uh just you you describe what each apartment would have.

Each apartment will have its a single bedroom, a kitchen, a living area, and a bath. And access is provided off the common new common corridor to the elevator and to the egress stair. And uh is it your testimony, and the board can ask you more specific questions, but is it your testimony that the two one-bedroom apartments on the third floor would meet all of the applicable building codes and other considerations for you as a professional, as an architect?

Yes. In fact, I had a very preliminary conversation with the building official last year when this was first being developed. He saw no code issues of what we were planning on doing as far as egress and fire separations, things of that nature. The building will have accessibility because it has an elevator and that accessibility will remain. We're not changing anything on the floors below this third level. And and uh I should have made the point in the beginning, but there's also no exterior changes whatsoever proposed. This building is not being enlarged or or altered on the outside. It's going to stay just the way it is.

Um, Mr. Schmidt, I think that might be it for right now. I will take Mr. Ke's direction and we'll make you available to the board if they have specific questions about rooms, layouts, access, and so forth. But, um, perhaps we'll pause there and we'll ask Mr. Steppp to come up. Yeah. Peter, would you raise your right hand, please? You swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth that proceeds before the board tonight. So, hope you got I do. And who might you be tonight? Excuse me. I said, who might you be tonight?

Well, uh, tonight, um, I'm Peter Stack, uh, Maplewood, New Jersey, licensed planner since 1976, and my license is still in effect. And you just testified before the board a couple several months ago. You were within the last year. Yes. All right. As a planner. Any questions from the board? All right. Go ahead, sir. Thank you, Glenn. And Mr. Ste, you were brought in to analyze the planning aspects uh of the uh proposed change in this building with respect to the township master plan and the applicable codes. Is that correct?

Yes. And do you have an opinion uh with respect to this whether this uh application could be granted uh in a way that's consistent with the uh goals of the master plan and in a way that would not damage the uh the zoning ordinances of the township? Um I do have an opinion. I would appreciate it if you would tell the board.

Okay. Uh short background. Uh I was present and testified at the prior application where the applicant was converting the first floor real estate office into a residential unit. Uh the board granted that variance and uh many of the conditions are the same. That was a higher standard. That was a Medici case because you couldn't have residential use on the first floor. We were converting office into a residential use. So that required the enhanced burden of proof particular suitability. Uh this rendition this evening is not as steep a proof. This is a D2. We're essentially we're modifying uh what we said the last time. Last time we eliminated the first floor commercial. We made that into an apartment. Now, on the top floor, we're converting the two-bedroom into a uh a one-bedroom, and we're we're saying that one of the units in the building, one of the one-bedroom units, would become a uh an affordable unit. Uh the surrounding area hasn't changed. Uh the surrounding uses are the same. This is not part of the high pedestrian area of your business district. As you know, there aren't even sidewalks in the front and you got to go across the gas station in order to get closer to the center of town. Um, I know you're working on a new master plan, but the master plan uh did want to preserve the architecture, and again, there are no changes to the exterior of this building. Uh your zoning did change in that um at one time uh well you you still allow

residential units over commercial uses in in this TCC zone but now you allow u multifamily in an inclusionary development as a a permitted use here. Uh so one way to look at this is we're asking for a modification of the prior uh application which was memorialized on March 10th, 2021. Uh simply because the facts are the facts that you granted the variance there to replace the first floor commercial with residential are the same. The only difference is we're having one extra apartment uh on the top floor. Uh so um this we don't have to show peculiar suitability but this building is peculiarly suited to smaller units. Again we don't have a big lot with open space. We have an elevator. Uh this is not an area for families particularly. It suits itself uh in my opinion to uh smaller households. That's the direction that the applicant's going. So in my opinion, there are several purposes of the municipal land use law. They're advanced A, G, I, and J. A talks about uh promoting the public health, safety, morals, and general welfare. Certainly the uh affordable housing unit does that. Uh G is it uh provide propo appropriate space at a sufficient sufficient space in appropriate location. Again, this is in a somewhat uh uh urbanized area, but not quite the pedestrian area. I talks about a vis promoting a visual environment and J talks about preserving historic sites. The board has approved the architecture. We're not changing any of the

architecture. Uh we have sufficient parking. So, there's really no change in terms of the dimensions of parking. The only change is one interior unit on the top going into two uh single bedrooms. So, uh because the master you're working on a new master plan, but the prior master plan did talk about the viability of the downtown. Uh your zoning ordinance does allow residential use above the first floor. uh and a new amendment uh Allah the uh housing responsibilities is if this is an inclusionary housing development um it becomes a permitted use in the zone. Uh oddly enough the you know the COA standard is produce four market rate units and that's the incentive for doing the fifth unit as affordable. That's like the 20% rule. We're doing a 100% rule here. We're providing one new dwelling unit and one of the dwelling units is going to be a um an affordable unit. So I think this is a comfortable application in terms of providing special reasons. Uh I think it can be approved without substantial impairment of the uh master plan and the zoning ordinance and without substantial detriment to the public good.

Yeah, Mr. Chairman, I don't have anything further to offer. Uh will be differential to the board's uh direction as to uh Mr. We'll go over uh David Simmons report that he issued on June 27th, 2025. You have that correct? Yes.

We'll go down to uh number two, completeness. Just for the record in the public, there's no exterior site changes proposed to the subject property. the applicant is requesting a site plan waiver and jump in anytime if there's disagreement or something you want to add etc. And then David said uh also recommends that the waiverss requested be granted and the application be deemed complete subject to providing proper and adequate legal notices. 3 zoning subject properties located in the TCC zone the town center commercial district B referring to the resolutions that were attached previously approved application variances were granted for the building in its present configuration subject to conditions the proposed reconfiguration of the interior of the building to create a new apartment number seven does not involve any exterior changes to the building as a result no change in bulk requirements of the zone is proposed because of course cost the site plan to point4 is the applicant is requesting a waiver of the site plan five parking based on the prior resolution memorialized on September 1st 2010 the applicant is providing 15 parking spaces as follows parking spaces in the garage two parking spaces in parking lot behind the garages three existing parking spaces leased by the applicant 10 total of 15. Okay. Right. And then uh point uh B based on the RSIS residential standards table 4.4 parking requirements for residential land uses for seven apartments consisting of one and twobedroom units. Total of 14 parking spaces would be required which he already testified to.

And then uh he mentions the applicant should confirm they still have the rights to the original required 15 parking spaces. I can have Mr. Leo confirm that the next time he's close to the microphone. Okay. Also, one off- streetet loading space is required for the proposed building. The planning board waved the requirement for loading zone in their May 29th resolution. Make a mount. That's fine. You can speak for him. Okay. So yeah, we we did confirm with uh Lake Mohawk Country Club that the leases were renewed and up to date. Uh Mr. Leo has written confirmation of the the leases.

6 storm water management. No changes proposed in the exterior of the building on the site that would generate any additional pace area and/or storm water runoff. 7 lighting plan. No changes in the existing lighting plan around the subject property are proposed. Point eight, utilities. A water existing building is connected to the township water system. Point B, septic system existing building is connected to the township sanitary sewer system. Point n, no landscape plan was proposed. Point 10, architectural plans applicant to advise if any additional AVAC units will be required for the proposed reconfigured interior of the building.

Why don't I give Mr. Smith the microphone? Thank you. You have another point. Yeah, Mr. Schmidt, the uh the chairman made the reference to asking whether there's any additional HVAC units uh required. And uh one of the next points coming up is whether or not sprinklers are required on the third floor. Perhaps you could answer both of those for for the chairman.

With regard to the HVAC equipment, the building the upper floor right now has a unit that serves the entire floor and we're looking to see if we can use that and more or less uh for lack of a better word subdivide that to serve both apartments. If that cannot be done, we can put an additional HVAC condenser at the area where the others are located with is which is in a which is in this within the first floor area of the building. So it won't be underground. It won't be added to the exterior. It will fit within the area where there the condensers are. Now could you also answer the sprinkler? Yes. question for

the building is currently fully fire sprinklered and it will remain as such. Any modifications in the floor plan that require adjustment to the sprinkler heads will be carried through.

All right. Thank you. And then point 11, the signs, no additional signs are proposed for this application. Point 13, no environmental impact statement was provided or needed. Miscellaneous approvals for the following. Sparta Township Fire Prevention Bureau. Also the Sparta Township Construction Official also to be provided as bill plans prepared by the applicants. New Jersey licensed land surveyor upon completion of the project showing the location of all 15 parking spaces.

Yeah. If if uh if we were to receive an approval, Mr. Chairman, we would request that uh we submit uh what Mr. Simmons would need because some of the parking spaces are fixed and I'm sure he'd like to see them on the asbuilt, but the others are leased through Lake Mohawk Country Club and uh their location can't be fixed. All right. Thank you. That was Mr. Simmons report. We'll now have our planner, Lindsay Knight. You're so kind to give your report, Lindsay.

Um absolutely. So, most of my questions and concerns have been addressed. Um, I don't think I heard in testimony though, however, if any, um, ADA spaces are within that parking agreement. What was that again? ADA spaces within those parking spaces. Um, there is an ADA space behind the building, not blocking any of the the garage spaces. So there is right now a handicap space closest to the entrance and the rear of the building.

Okay, great. Um and then my other comment would be regarding the affordable housing unit. Um I would just have you check with the administrative agent as well as the affordable housing planner for the township to determine um based on the new U-Hack regulations which type of unit it would be um based on income levels and kind of how those are being dispersed throughout the proposed units. Um, I'm not the affordable housing planner, so I can't speak on behalf of them, but I would just double check to make sure that that's just within the regulations and what they have assumed.

We're, you know, as as we mentioned, we're proposing a moderate and it'll if if we were to get an approval, that would be a condition of approval to be approved by the affordable housing um, consultant for the town. Yes. Yeah. So, just making sure that they're hitting the percentages and and not I guess I would suggest, Mr. chairman, if if they say it's not a moderate, it's something else, you're going to go along with whatever the recommendation is. You suspect, and I think you're right. I think it's a moderate unit. I I think the three of us agree. I think you I think you should be fine, but I just would suggest speaking with them before uh just as maybe a condition of approval that having Well, that gives me more confidence if the three of us are in agreement.

Yeah. I just don't want to get hung up and find out that there's a problem if something else. But Peter's been doing this as much as anybody here. Yeah. Yeah, and you als your office also and you too. So, understood. Yeah. And having gone through the housing element, I think you should be fine, but I just would double check with them based on their percentages and what's been accounted for. That's it. Thank you, Lindsay. Marissa, can you please call on the board members now? Are there questions or comments? Landon Tinary, I have no questions or comments. Michael Johnson. No questions. Richard Larufa.

Uh yeah, just maybe one clarification on the uh egress and uh ADA access. The existing apartment on the third floor, the entrance to that apartment, is that at the base of the second floor stair to the third floor? Is it at the third floor right now? It's at the base of the second floor. Okay. And when you get up to the third floor, um, looking at where you're showing your petitions, um, it looks like the existing elevator opens up into the new apartment. No, it actually opens into we've made a a small common corridor between the uh between the two units.

John, this is part of the uh application that was filed, right? We don't have to Is that one of your sheets, Mr. A2, which has been submitted to the board? That's fine. I just want to get on the right right here. There there's this is a new common corer. There's a door that leads into this apartment over here. There's a door that leads into this apartment over here. So, the elevator goes into a small common corer.

So, then the apartment number seven In order to go to the existing bedroom, you go out with a common card to get to the bedroom. No, the on Let me just walk through this real quick. You're coming out the elevator to this common hallway here. You can come into bed apartment number seven through this door. This is the living space. Here's the door that goes into the bedroom. The bed the door is on the right side of that plan towards the exterior wall to the bedroom. I think the door that you're referring to, they have it shown as hatched, so it's probably being removed. Yes. Anything that's dashed on this plan is removal. Anything that's a solid wall is a new wall to create the division in the areas necessary.

Okay. It's different. It's different than what's on the plan that we have. According to the plan that we have, in order to get into the the bedroom, you have to go through the car to get into the bedroom. This this plan shows the door going in from the uh living area, kitchen area into the bedroom. The drawings that you have should be dated August 28th, 2024. I got May 31st, 2024.

Okay. So, you got a preview. That's fine. I I see. But the old drawing didn't show that, but it looked like you have to go out the car to get into the bedroom. And it looked like this was all the apartment from the stairwell down below was the entrance door into the apartment and the elevator opens up inside the apartment. That's just Yeah. Okay. Thank you. We had the wrong drawings. Okay. No other questions.

All right. What's the actual so we make sure we don't have a problem for the motion Mr. Chairman assuming it's going to get approved the date it would be based on plans that revised through August August 28th 2024 okay that'll fix those issues thank you so I'm sorry everybody was showing did you get a copy of the plan that is up here no why that's they just hand it to me

Yep. Makes a big difference. Thank you, Michael Leandi. No questions for me. Thanks, Richard Becker. Um, I think I have a question. Um, are any of these apartments ADA compliant?

Well, they do access as provided through the by the elevator. And at the time when they were designed, they met the requirements what the code were. Uh, are they fully compliant? I'm not I'll be honest with you, I'm not 100% sure, but they were compliant at the time of when they were approved. They are. Apartment two on the second floor is fully compliant. Thank you. No further questions at this time. Jennifer Pah. No questions.

Chairman Kenneth Larry. Uh thanks Mercen. Did you see the Florida Township fire prevention memo that was sent out? I'm sure I did.

If not, I could read it off. It's not that long. Thomas McIntyre, the fire inspector, noted an approved knockbox, but must be installed in accordance with section 506.1 of the 2018 International Fire Code, New Jersey edition, as well as Florida Township Ordinance 23-18. The placement and context uh contents of the box must be approved by the fire chief. And this would be a condition of approval if you are aware of that. I have the memo and no objection. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Make it condition on.

And just for the record, the environmental commission issued a memo request no additional lighting to be added to the site, which you guys already covered. So, and then the Lake Mohawk Country Club engineer Savine Watson mentioned something at the end of her memo. There should be no increase in the future number of dwelling units. How would you respond to that? We would. We don't. They have no response. They can't without coming back here. Yep. We would be in agreement. You're in agreement with that. That's That's a non-starting comment.

Okay. Okay, I'll now open the hearing to the public. If anyone has any comments or questions on this application, please come forward. No one. Seeing no one, it's now closed to the b public and back to the board. Does the board members have any other questions or comments before I ask for a motion? All right. The chair will entertain a motion approving the application.

Yeah, Mr. Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion to have the board attorney draft a resolution approving application uh number 6-25 for Firehouse Apartments LLC block 5024 lot 2 at 23 West Shore Trail seeking D2 use variance for um expansion of a non-conforming use from six apartment units to seven uh with conditions that the applicant check with the affordable housing agent at the township um that the affordable housing unit proposed is within applicable regulations and that you install a Knox box consult in coordination with the fire chief. Uh we're going to be in accordance with all plans dated 82824. Uh also all representations and testimony presented here tonight.

And also Mike, if I could just make a quick addendum with the as bill plans from David's uh report be provided. Yes. And showing location of all 15 parking spaces etc. That's accepted. Thank you. Do I have a second? Second. Any discussion? Marissa, please call the role. Landon Tineri, yes. Michael Joseph, yes. Richard, excuse me, Richard Larup, yes. Michael Leondi, yes. Richard Barbecker, yes. Jennifer Paha, yes. And Chairman Kenneth Larry,

yes. Members of the board, thank you uh for your time. And uh Mr. Leon keeps making motions like good. I don't know what Mr. Ke is going to do. I'll be with Mr. Simmons. I'll be with Mr. Simmons having dinner. Thank you.

Next application 7-2466 Woodport LLC. Please come forward. again, Mr. Chairman, board. I'm Todd Hooker from Afghan Hooker. We're here on the application for 66 Woodport Road. Uh again, I don't want to belabor you don't need need to hear me talk too much. We'll get We have two witnesses tonight. We have uh the owner and planner. What are their names, sir?

Richard Cron. I'm sure I'm saying that right, but it's Italian. Yes, I don't if I have the accent right. And then, uh, we have Matt Flynn, who's the professional. What was his name? Matt. Matthew Flynn. Flynn. Matt, why don't you just come up and I'll throw you both in at the same time. You can. Sir, would you stand please raise your right hands? both swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth in proceedings before the board tonight. So help you God? I do. Yeah. Okay. Your name is Richard. Richard Cron. Spell your last name, please. C I N T R O N.

And you're the applicant. And who are you? Uh Matt Flynn. F L YN. Professional planner. Matt, you've testified before this board before? I have. And your license is valid as of tonight? Yes. Okay, Mr. Chair. All right. Any questions from the board? No.

Thank you, Glenn. And you heard the format before. After you're finished presenting your application, I'll go over Mrs. Simmons, our professional engineers report, and then our planner, Lindseay Knight, will go over her report. Then we'll come back to this board for any questions or comments that we may have on the application. Then I'll open it to the public for their comments and questions. And also, just for the record, as you know, it's a Dvariance. You'll need five affirmative votes to approve it. If it is approved, it's tied to the land in perpetuity. And please speak clearly and directly into the microphones. Understood. All right. How can we help you?

Well, uh first uh we can sit down. Sure. The um the when you referred to the application earlier, Mr. Chairman, you called it a billboard, and I think that's really a misnomer. That's what the town called it. Mr. Cron had had some uh uh had a sign up there before and the town said, "You can't have that on there because we think it's a billboard. You need to come before the board and get approval." So, he took the sign down and now we're here tonight. It's really a directional sign and we'll I'll have Mr. Cron testify, but I'm going to sum it up for you real quick. He has offices for his business at at Professional Quadrangle, which is 66 Woodport Road. Um, actually, I think there's three addresses there. Yes. Yes.

What are the addresses? You have 74, 76, and 66 Woodport and one professional quad also.

Yeah, that I think it's all it's referred to as all three buildings are referred to as professional quadrangle. Uh if you've lived in town a while, I think everybody's heard of that. Um but the um and then Mr. Mr. Cron also owns clothing store in Lake Mohawk Plaza, which is known as a Nor. And many of you probably been there, driven by it, and seen it. Um uh I'm I'm a customer big fan. But um so the the sign that Mr. Cron had up there was for it said you know Nori Clothing visit our storefront in the plaza and it was a directional sign to get to get people to go to the plaza because people would come to the wrong place to buy a suit or a shirt. So he's getting them to go to the right place. So that's what we're going to talk about tonight. I really think it's a directional sign not a billboard. There's never been any intention for third party advertising. We're not going to be putting It's not an outfront lit up billboard like the other ones on Woodport Road that you drive by when you come off 15. That's not the intention here. It was an existing sign that's been there for decades. Uh that used to advertise the tenants. Um but Mr. CRO because he has space there doesn't need all that signage and wanted to use it to direct people to the plaza to the storefront where they could buy suits, shirts, shoes, and other things. so they didn't come to Woodport Road to try to buy shoes, shirts, and other things. So, that's where we are. I'll let Mr. Cron testify. Uh, you've already stated your name for the record. Um, please tell the board a little bit about your business uh here in the town, sir.

Um, Onario Clothing was established in 1984 and we moved into Sparta over 30 years ago. I opened up the uh brick and mortar in on Lake Mohawk in uh 2013. We were fortunate enough to be able to buy the building in 2020 and we we renovated as such. The building in the plaza,

the building in the plaza and um subsequently we encountered an opportunity to purchase the properties up at one professional quad. We purchased that. I was running out of space, office space and storage space in the small building on on Lake Mohawk. So, we occupied part of the the building for my office and also dry goods. So, um, we've been very fortunate, but then what happening is, uh, when customers come to the to Sparta looking for the store because unfortunately there's not too many men's habadashers in the in Sussex County or Morris County for that fact. Um, they were having problems locating the store and we were constantly on the phone giving directions, which we don't mind obviously. So, we we took we took it upon us to put the sign up more as a directional and also just to pump the store a little bit to be quite honest. Uh but it it worked and then I was informed that I had to take it off because it was not to code and that's why we're here.

Mr. Cron, the I think you just testified that you have your you have your business offices there. You store some dry goods there. What what are dry goods just for purposes? The zipper bags, paper bags, uh anything that's on the the finished product, extra threads, uh fabrics that I import from Italy that I have to store. I don't have the room in the the Lake Mohawk, so I have to move it off site and keep it there. And also my computer system and everything that I do. So your bookkeeping and all the administrative type stuff is done at at the professional quadranger building. Yes, it is. And then the retail sales are done in the plaza. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Now, did you have people I think you just testified people calling you saying, "Hey, I can't find the store. Can you help me get there?"

Quite a few. And also, you know, through through the internet, thank God we've been advertising and the store is growing slowly and no one could ever find the shop. So, um, we all know where Lake Mohawk is and but I have to use points of reference crows or St. Mariss. So, I took advantage and put the sign up and it helped quite a bit. I'll be quite honest. Quite for a while there. I think I had it up for about a little over a month and in that month's time people were able to find and thank God people that never knew we were on the plaza discovered us which helped my store and helped all the other shops on the plaza. Now you said you've opened up uh the brick and mortar in 2013 or 2014. 2013 in uh in Sparta,

right? And you had a a store outside of Sussex County before that in uh Riverside Square Mall in Hackinack. Um, we were there for quite a while and uh, more rents got a little out of hand, so I had to find another home and I've lived in Sparta for over 30 years. So, what better place to be than in my own backyard. And do you still have customers who come from outside the county looking for? Quite a few. Quite a few. Quite a few. Thank God. So, so is it your intention to if you get billboard approval to use this directional sign to use it as an advertisement for any other business or to take income from that?

No, not at all. It's just directional and just to notify the s the public that we are located on Lake Mohawk in the plaza and it and I try to do it in the best taste I can. Hopefully, we'll have some examples to show you. Uh, but it'll be changed once a month, but it's always on the same key. Something low hides, you know, good taste. What I consider to be good taste. So, so the sign will say no clothing. Visit our showroom in the office with a picture of some like a a woman or a man in well-dressed clothes. That's it. That's it. And and the your business is located there at the professional.

Yes, it is. My office is there. I don't have any other questions for Mr. Cron and Mr. Flynn can come up next and then uh when the board has questions we'll come back up.

Sorry, if you want it just Do you want to use these, Todd, or? Yeah, I want you to use everything. Um, I think maybe we'll start with this one, though. Okay. What do you think? I think I'll start with this, but um, good evening. Do you want me to just jump right in, Todd? You've already been sworn in and you've already been qualified, so I don't think I need to do that.

Okay. Uh just by way of quick background, obviously this is classified as a billboard, but I think we can all agree that this is a very specific type of billboard. Potentially I think it might be fair to say that maybe not the type that the zoning ordinance specifically seeks to avoid in a location like this. So what I'll do is go over those specific characteristics that make this sign uh different than what I'll call the typical billboard. Um, most importantly I would say is that this client is not proposing to rent out the sign. Typically billboards would be rented out and you collect um, rent off of that billboard. That's not the case here. Um, so of course we are requesting a D1 use variance since again this is technically a billboard and we are looking at some C relief as well related to the size and the dimensions of that sign. Um, so with that, I do have an exhibit that I'd like to hand out now, which uh, Mr. Kees, are we on A1? Probably, right?

How many How many pictures are with it, M? It's a three-page exhibit. I think if it's all right, we'll mark it as A1 consisting of of three sheets. Okay. Todd, by the way, did you take the You know the date? I might ask. Okay, that's right. It was it was after we submitted the application. So, exhibits one through three, while they're being handed out, I'll just um let the board know what this is depicting here. Uh the first two sheets show the property. We flew a drone out there earlier today.

Just hold on one second until the board gets them. Okay. So, as I was saying, uh we flew a drone out there earlier uh today, August 13, 2025, uh just to show the board, orient the board as to the location of the property as well as the existing uh uh condition of the property. And just right off the bat here on page one, we can actually see the sign in question. If anyone has trouble seeing it, just let me know. But essentially, uh, it's that white square that is, uh, somewhat in the back of the property along Woodport Road. Um the sign is there today as we heard from our uh client as our um as we heard from our applicant and we are simply proposing to reface that sign. Uh one of the nice things that I can just speak to on page one since we're on it is that there is generous uh property dimensions here. So there is a nice generous front yard there so it's not going to overpower the site. there's still adequate light air, open space on the property. Um, it's not overcrowding the property, I would say, in any way. Uh, shifting over to page two. So, exhibit A2 now.

No, A1. It's just Oh, we're still on a Okay. page two of A1.

Page two of A1. There we go. Um, here we can see the intersection of Winona Parkway as well as Woodport Road. And what we're going to see is that there are similar type signs on that um at that intersection there which similarly point you to the direction of Lake Mohawk Plaza. And I will get to that in just a second here. Um again, we get a nice view of the sign here. It's a little bit closer to where we took that that shot. And finally, sheet three. Uh these photographs were taken uh by the applicant and they do adequately depict these uh existing conditions of the signs that I'm showing here. But just to walk the board through what I'm showing, the first two show monument signs at that Woodport Road Winona Plaza uh Winona uh Parkway intersection. those two Lake Mohawk Country Club signs that include the Coldwell Banker Realy uh directional sign pointing motorists down Winona Parkway uh towards uh the plaza. I also included here below those are some other billboards along Woodport Road. Really the only reason I included those is just to sort of uh contrast what we're proposing with what what is shown there. I would say that this is what we typically think of when we think of a a billboard. What we're proposing is really nothing like that here. We're specifically um pointing motorists in the direction of a business that's really right down the road there, whereas your typical billboard might advertise a national brand that might have nothing to do with Sparta or Lake Mohawk Plaza. And finally, the image on the on the right side of this page is another directional

style sign, which would also be classified as a billboard. Um, here we're at the intersection of Sparta Avenue and Sparta Andover Road, providing that directional sign towards Perona Farms. Again, what we're proposing is sort of in keeping with with that style of sign. While that is technically a billboard, it functions in a similar way to our sign being directional in nature. Um, so with all of that background, just to walk the board through the variance that we're seeking and the statutory relief um that I believe justified these variances, since we are looking at a D1 use variance, we need to look at the site suitability standard. So what makes this site specifically suited for this proposed use? It's a sightspecific test. Um here I think it's important that the business uh the applicant here the business is headquartered on this property. So it does have some relation to the to the property. Um the sheer proximity of the business in question is right down Winona Parkway. Um right where Winona Parkway uh hits the Lake Mohawk Plaza there. And of course Woodport Road does have excellent visibility for motorists. I I know that the applicant has already talked about how this is a a a great aid in terms of enhancing the visibility to get people to his business. Um as well as getting people to Lake Mohawk Plaza, I would say in general. So in terms of the positive criteria, the benefits of the application, we look to the municipal land use law. Um purposes of zoning set forth therein. Here we can look to purpose A, which is promotion of the general welfare. again promoting wayfinding, getting people to the to the Lake Mohawk Plaza um easier um providing that convenience factor. Purpose G, variety of uses in appropriate

locations, falling back on the site suitability testimony as well as purpose I, desirable visual environment. Again, uh this is not your traditional billboard. It's going to be much more aesthetic. it's going to be much more, I would say, in keeping with the neighborhood again with that proximity to the business. Uh, right there. In terms of the negative criteria, no substantial detriment to the public or to the zone. Um, the only thing that really classifies this as a billboard is that it advertises an off-site business, but other than that, I would say this is a highly unique sign that will not uh in the public mind be viewed as a billboard, per se. Again, it's not advertising a business that has no affiliation with the neighborhood. It's not the size of your traditional billboard, no internal illumination. Um, and in many respects, I would say this functions as a directional sign. So, with all that out of the way, I would say that the the use variance is justified here. The positives clearly outweigh any detriments and the site suitability standard is met for this specific property. Um, we are looking at some sea relief for the dimensions of the sign, even though again the sign is out there today. Um, and we're not proposing any changes to the dimensions.

It's it's a pre-existing sign that's been there. It was It used to advertise tenants. It's not like something that was built. It's been there forever. Yeah. If it wasn't clear based on what I said, the sign, it wasn't put up there without the knowledge of the town. It has been there for a long time as was testified by the applicant. Um, so just to go over the dimensions here, we're looking at an overall square footage of We're going to mark 82 now.

Oh, for the record. Page two is uh an exhibit of two pages. Uh the top sheet is entitled existing sign dimensions and then it's got a square foot calculation. Correct. And page two for the record is uh just a simple map highlighting where those uh signs are that I showed on page three of my earlier exhibit. Um, but really I would say the important page here is page one, which I think, uh, obviously shows the signed dimensions here. Uh, we're looking at a, just to tie this into the zoning requirements, we're allowed a maximum height of 2 feet, whereas we're looking at a height of, uh, just under 9 ft. width uh 12 feet is permitted whereas we're looking at a width of uh 66 6 feet. So we are compliant in terms of width and then area we're permitted to go up to 24T whereas the existing sign is 62.57 square ft. That's the overall sign. If we were to just look at the sign face uh we would be looking at 47.71 square ft. Um, so the two variances that we're seeking in terms of the signage dimensions would be the height as well as the area. Again, this sign has been there for a long time. It's not going to all of a sudden uh creep up in the public view. It's out there today. We're not changing it and we're simply

bringing it back to life. Whereas right now, it is this blank white space and we are obviously filling that out with the with the Onori business. So I would say we can look to the C2 test, the balancing test, all those positives that I went through, all those benefits for the use itself really carry forth in terms of the signage dimensions. The point here is to provide visibility, wayfinding, and in order to do that, we need a certain amount of area. Um, and I would say that the sign in that regard is appropriate for accommodating uh those things. The flip side to that, the negative criteria, no substantial to the no substantial detriment to the public or to the zone. Again, it's a long-standing existing sign that used to advertise the existing businesses on the property. Here, the only thing we're changing are the businesses that are going to be advertised. But other than that, um, we're really just, like I said, bringing the sign back to life, back to functional use. Um, and as I showed the board on page one of my other exhibit, it clearly does not overpower the site. This is a relatively large property with a very generous frontage along Woodport Road, and this sign clearly does not overpower the the site's frontage. So, with that, I would say the the variances that we're seeking this evening are appropriate, modest, and really will uh be to the benefit of the immediate area. So unless there's any redirect, Todd, that's pretty much what I have.

No, I I just think that within the application itself, there was some mockups that were presented. Uh was part of the application that was submitted. Um and it again, the these aren't set in stone. It's just the idea of the type of image that you might see. Um and it's it's uh near the near the end of the application, there are some color photos. Uh, and there's two and one of them actually has Richard holding an umbrella um and a pair of sunglasses. Um, so that would be the type of I don't know if you if you found them in your in the application. We have them. I have

those mockups of what that uh you know we're not set on the on the lettering was just to show you the type of images you might see on that sign. So it's not just to give you a representation. So I'll sit back down or Okay. Yeah. Sure. I probably ask you questions about medical state. Yeah, but I think you want me to say we want to go over David Simmons report now, the July 11, 2025, which I assume you have. Just let me know when you're ready. Okay, ready.

We go to point two complete completelessness. Uh the majority of the items from form five minor site plan checklist have not been provided. However, the application is very limited in scope dealing with just the proposed use existing sign as billboard. Therefore, I recommend that the minor site plan checklist items be waved for completeness and the application be declared complete subject to providing proper and adequate legal notice to the application which we did.

Yes. Point three, zoning. A the subject properties located in the TCCO zone, town center commercial office zone. B per se per section 18-4.25B billboards are not permitted use. A use variance is required for the proposed application. Speed dimensions of the existing sign have not been provided, which you just did. So we covered that. Point four, the site plan location of the existing sign with respect to the rightway line of New Jersey State Route 181 has not been provided.

We have an updated survey we can provide. Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. is about 3.3 ft into the rightway and if the road is ever expanded, Mr. Cron would happily move the sign to the left. was a dos and then B if the applicant to indicate if the existing sign is registered with the NJ dot as a billboard and provided any supporting documentation. It is not registered. We don't think it's subject to DOT requirements, which if it's an on- premise assigned for an on- premises business, it doesn't need a DOT permit for for it.

You're going under the premise that it's really not a billboard is the We'll get to that later, but that's the reason here. It's not a billboard, but even if you call it a billboard, I think that's what the town is calling it. It's if it if it advert the DOT regulations at NJ16 41C indicate that on premises sign do not require the issuance of an outdoor advertising permit from DOT and because it's an on- premises business and it's directing to to its other location doesn't need a DOT permit

be a little dicey with the on premise versus where the advertisement on the billboard is located but we'll get into that later that's something we can discuss uh point five the lighting plan the plans will not indicate if the sign will be illuminated if So how long and during what hours? I know you covered that already. So I think that Mr. Cron can testify uh that the Would you to the extent the sign is lit? Mr. Cron would you comply with? Yes, it's indirect lighting and it's set on a timer. Um I figured that it goes on about uh dusk and it goes off by 1 1:00 a.m. Not to say too. And it's in it's very subtle indirect. It's landscape lighting. Correct.

It's a landscape light. It's a landscape light. Yes. low voltage something that keeps it I don't want I don't I don't want anybody driving down what went any hitting them in the face it's an obstruction all right thank you thank you and be he was asking about internally lit box signs which is prohibited but that's not going to have anything to do with that no landscaping is proposed and then.7 signs based on a review of the sign information provided applicants should be prepared to discuss and review the conform performance of the existing sign to the township sign ordinances. Mr. Clint did that

right. No environmental impact statement miscellaneous. The NJ do sign registration and then of course as bill plans upon completion of the U billboard application. A3 takes care of that. Other than this Then we'll have our professional planner, Lindsay Knight, if you're so kind to give your report.

Yeah. Um, so I just want to clarify the sign or billboard, whatever we we're going to call it. Um, it was previously used to um, looking back on Google or street view imagery, it previously was used to show multi-tenants in the building. So, it wasn't ever used for one whole advertisement. Um, I would also agree with Mr. Simmons that I I would believe that this would have to be registered with NJ DOT as a as a billboard. Um, and then also if it is determined by NJ DOT that it is a billboard, they have to renew annually. And I think um it's done where you just send a payment annually. And I think some kind of receipt should be sent back to the municipality to show that you're in good standing. um with NJ dot. Um my next question is just for clarification on the um billboards that are in I believe it's A1 sheet three um that are shown on Woodport A. Where in relation to the subject lot are those located?

Yeah. So if we look at exhibit A2 which the first page is those sign dimensions we flip the page there. Um, so page two of exhibit A2. If you see the I'm just going to uh speak to what I'm seeing here. The apparis beauty and wellness in the middle of the page there. That's pretty much where the subject property is. And then if we look down to the bottom right of the page, we see three red arrows. Those are where those billboards are. Right. When you come off 15, the first part to exit, come off 15. Sure. You probably drove by. Yeah. No, I didn't take 15. But yeah, they're way up. They're way

Yeah, they're not in close proximity to what proposing mile away. And the point was really not to not to say that Woodport Road has billboards all over. The point was to say that it was really just to contrast what we're proposing with your quote unquote typical uh billboard. Um, and then finally, I think if the board was to look favorably upon this application, um, I think Mr. Simmons and myself would appreciate additional information regarding the lighting, whether it's a detail of the lighting that's there, just to confirm that there's no spillage or no issues with, um, with the lighting. Um, and then it'll confirm. That's it.

Lindsay, can you just confirm a few points that I have if they're correct or not? We know billboards are not permitted in any zone in Sparta at this time since we have no standards for them at all. And the ones like Mr. Flynn mentioned a couple and other ones that are all over the town have all been grandfathered in. Correct. Um I would assume so. I I have not been around for around a long time. Yeah. I would assume that there was some kind of approval that's makes them existing non-conforming grandfathered. And then the applicant's billboard if approved would be for a business to have it advertised which is not actually located on the billboard site. Correct.

I would agree based on the testimony this evening that although the headquarters are there the actual sale retail sale of these items is not where the sign will be located. And then would you agree if it is approved it will set a precedent in this town since no billboards, there's no standards, etc.

Um, I think it would definitely be changing um the use of such signage. Um, and as we you are on the subcommittee for the master plan. I think um one of the things that we are heavily looking into are design guidelines and and creating standards for the township. And I think that this would be something that um could potentially change that uh effort that whole effort. Correct. Yes. Thank you. Could you just briefly for the board and the public go over the standards for granting this D1 variance relief? C2. C2. No, we're talking about the D variance. I think you could see also

just briefly, Lindsay, if you're so kind for the board. Um, so you want me to I Mr. Flynn kind of went through them pretty uh outweighing the the positive criteria outweighing the the negative? Yes, I'd rather have our planner so kind.

So yeah, um getting kind of put on the spot here, huh? Um so you have to go through the MLUL. Um there's a list of criteria which Mr. Flynn went through. they're labeled and you have to say how those are the positive criteria and how it relates to what is being uh granted this evening or what is hoping to be granted this evening. Um you have to um he spoke about site suitability. Um site suitability is saying how this site specifically is um suitable um and why it is incredibly unique and this this use should be permitted there because of the uniqueness of the property. Um the negative criteria is saying that the um the benefits of granting this is going to outweigh any type of detriment. So by granting this this is going to be so great that anything that could be negative is going to be completely outweighed by what uh the positivity that this use would be bringing.

All right. Thank you. Yep. Mr. Chair, if you don't have any other questions, may I just respond to some of your concerns? Well, you can do that when we get if you're so kind. We'll just go to the board members now. Then they'll get to me eventually and then we can discuss that. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Marissa, please call on the board members. Latiner,

I just had a question for what would happen if the property was sold or one of the two properties were sold and how that would work for this sign. Well, I I think it depends on the conditions that the board puts in the resolution approving the sign and you have the power to direct that. So, if Mr. Centron's testimony is he's only going to use it to advertise his business in the plaza and if that's the only use that you're permitting, then that would be a condition of the approval,

right? Since Landon since the variance is tied to the land in perpetuity, so that would cover everything. Michael Jepic.

Yeah, I had the same concern Landon had, but I think we could address that with conditions. Um, but another question I have is I know we're calling it directional sign, billboard, whatever. Um, saw the images, what it could potentially look like. I just want to confirm that if approved, there's not going to be any kind of like, you know, advertisement of sales or, you know, specials this month, anything like that. That's purely just a, you know, some kind of image with a name of the shop and then directing them to the location.

Absolutely not. I'm more concerned with image and direction. Um, we've worked very hard to establish a certain image for the store and I want to maintain that integrity and um I'm not interested in sales. Informative and directional. That's it. Okay. Um, that's all I have right now. Richard Larua.

Uh, similar questions to the previous ones. Big negative that I see is if we're granting a variance for it as a billboard. We have no conditions that we can actually put on it in future use. If the property is sold, it is a billboard. And if it's a billboard that's proved by DOT and paid for monthly or annually by DOT, it is a billboard in perpetuity. If somebody moves, somebody else buys the property that it's on, they're still entitled to put a sign up as to what businesses are on that property. So that's a second sign that they could that could be put on for the businesses on that property as opposed to a billboard. The variance is

for a second sign on the property, sir. It's on A1 if you take a look. Okay. But it is this is a this is going to be reclassified as a billboard by the by this variance. It'll be a billboard in perpetuity. Uh that's the way you go. I think that's correct. The other the other cons little bit of a concern I have is with the examples you showed particularly the one on Perona Farms Perona Farms directional sign that's at an intersection to tell you to turn here. The sample sign you showed says that an area is at Lake Mohawk Plaza. It doesn't say where Lake Mohawk Plaza is. It's not really directional.

It's not it's not it's not something that says you turn left at the light down below. Um it it to me it's a little vague as to what we're approving it as a billboard in perpetuity with this property that anybody can use it in the future. I don't think we can put restrictions on it. It'll still be a billboard especially if it's approved by DOT and paid annually for DOT restrictions. So that's that's a negative that to me is a negative criteria that has to be addressed. I I think it is. Let's have the whole board. I got some other issues that I think Let's see what Let's go over rest of the members. Go ahead, Marissa. Michael Leandi.

My questions have been answered. Thanks, Marissa. Richard Roarburgger.

Um I have a at least one question. Um it's my understanding that this sign that's classed as a billboard. Initially advertised the offices, businesses that were in the um commercial plaza, the the the the three buildings that are there. and Mr. Satron has that that use was abandoned at some point.

There's a second sign on the property that advertises the tenants.

Let me finish. Um, Mr. Satron took this sign, this billboard, because that's what it's classed as. uh and and advertised his specific business location business not necessarily in that was not necess plaza but was further down in the lake in the uh Lake Mohawk, the White Deer Plaza. Is that correct?

I I think the characterization of abandonment is not correct, but otherwise, yes, it was no longer Okay, we won't use the phrase abandoned. We will say that it was no longer used to advertise in any way, shape, or form any of the businesses that were in this commercial plaza. Would that be acceptable?

That is correct. That would be a And you then took over that particular signage to advertise your retail establishment that was not in the commercial plaza but was down in the Lake Mohawk White Deer Plaza complex. Right. Originally, the tenants that we have in the place were offered that sign. They chose to take out a permit and get an illuminated sign on one of the lots that I own at 78 Woodport, which has the sign for the Plaza uh the spot of diner. Yes,

that's also my property. And he took the permit. He put a illuminated sign there. Also at Prey, which is one of my tenants at one professional quarter 74, took out a permit and got approved to put a luminated sign on the property. So they had the option, they opted out. So instead of just leaving it vacant,

um that answers my question for the time being. Uh, having been a resident as a as an aside and a comment, having been a resident in town for many years, I remember the the sign having a listing of who was in the um professional complex. Uh, and quite honestly, I haven't paid any attention to your advertisements. I will uh uh or your advertisement for your shop. I will tell you that. Hopefully that'll change.

Well, it will now. Uh we'll we'll we'll pay more attention to that. Um that's all the questions I have then at this time. Thank you, Jennifer Paha. Um, I don't have any questions, but I do have a comment. Um, the sign that was there before the building was actually even painted, right? It was a darker color. And I'm sorry, I didn't hear you.

The building, prior to you owning the building, the building had a lot of trees around it. And there was a tree, a lot of trees around the quadrangle. It was a nice setting. And then the sign itself was, as we were saying, it was made of several different signs and they were very subdued. They were the beigish color of the building with only a slightly darker font for the for the signs. So, I just I think this is much different and I do think it is a billboard and I think that gets us into a completely different subject matter. I would even go so far to say my personal opinion is that with a big with with a larger billboard that's only for one business with the sensational look of you on it um and and looking sharp. I I think you know your your um your drone pictures do not take into account the topography there either. Woodport Road has become and especially that intersection with the advent of Chia Haven and egress there. I mean, that's a very dangerous intersection. We have accidents there all the time. And to have something as distracting as that picture or people then now trying to read the fine print if there's something directional, I don't think it's the proper venue. But I would also say I really wish that we could get our master plan in place so we wouldn't have to have people like you come here and, you know, try and figure out exceptions and, you know, talk about my headquarters is here. So, I'm a big advocate of your store. I'm a big advocate of getting you any advertising. I I think we need a different approach would be my comment.

Chairman Kenneth Larry. Uh Mr. Flynn, you said you were going to respond to some of the points I made.

Yeah. The only thing that I would I everyone had great questions and comments. Uh Mr. Chair, I just wanted to respond. You talked about precedent. Um, I just wanted to reiterate the the enhanced burden of proof for a use variance is site suitability specifically for that reason. So, the testimony that I gave was regarding why this particular property might be looked at differently than if somebody else were to come to the board with a billboard, why that might be a totally different application that might warrant a different um a different outcome. And in this case, again, I think I I put the testimony out there. I won't go through it again. Um, but I think it is worth reiterating the fact as we have been saying here, the client has a headquarters on this property. I believe the use variance would go away if the language uh can I just see the rendering, Todd?

The the sign that

No, no, no. The sign that we're like with the colors and everything. If there was no mention to the other business, uh, you know, I think this is the major thing that makes this property unique is that the word onor could legally be there without necessitating a use variance. The only reason the use variance is necessitated is because it says located in the Lake Mohawk Plaza. Um, and the only reason I say that is because there are probably very few properties that could uh that could come to the board with that specific characteristic. Um, whereas they would be legally allowed to propose a sign. It just so happens that he has that language there. So, basically what I'm trying to say, it's not a far cry from what would be permitted without pursuing a use variance.

Thank you. Were the pictures photoshopped or not? I forgot if you This was No, this was actually hung and the picture was taken and then taken down. All right. Thank you. And then I think our board attorney Glenn, you said you had a few questions or comments you wanted to cover or two. Um, and this may be directed a little bit at you, Mr. Chairman, because you know more about what's going on, but there is a subcommittee or committee working on signage ordinances for Sparta Township. Is that accurate? That'll be under the master. I thought committee subcommittee.

I thought Sparta was undergoing a group looking at ordinances including the signed ordinances for the municipality. I thought that had come up on a couple of our previous applications. I can't uh I'm not sure then going if it's actually in the process now of a comm I would know. I don't I don't believe there's a committ. No, maybe there's not. I I was going to say that this seems to be an application that is interesting if in fact you're revising

your sign ordinance which everybody is complaining about whether it's you know going out and looking at the the farm with that sign and others. Uh, and I thought that Sparta was in the process of revising that and I was thinking that this is the perfect example of what should be addressed by some committee doing a sign ordinance so that you can figure out how to do it and how to do it right because uh, you know, I I've been with you all on and off since 1980 and this board is very very I'm not getting choked up on the application. This board has been very very focused and and directed as to how it treats signs and you don't get sign variances very often and that was certainly uh a caveat of the former chair and um and the former chair before that chairman Rasmusen was like that also. So this is this is a difficult difficult application and there's certainly good reasons. Uh I even questioned about the changeable messaging because it's apparently going to change I don't know whether it's once a month once every other but signs do change but you know how how does that fit and is that within the character and that's what you all have to determine in making that. So, thank you, Glenn, for your comments. Lindsay, do you have any comments on what Glenn just stated for the board?

No, I think he summed it up pretty nicely of what your considerations are for this evening, but definitely something as we work on the master plan, we'll have to we're in the master plan subcommittee, so that's something we can think about. I would think that signs should be jumping to the front because it's we're hearing applications right and left and Sparta's known traditionally for being rigid just like you wouldn't necessarily know this Lindsay but Hampton Township for years was even stricter than Sparta. Yeah. I think also um with the like there's the minor site plan subcommittee as well and I think that they have they've been pretty clear about not wanting to deal with signage at that level and that it should be going to full board application

and that's at the planning board. Yeah, it's at the planning board. Yeah. Committee, right? What we might do is um ask for the board to make sounds like sounds like we're not going to maybe necessarily get through here tonight. Um, I think you'd get through, but I think I think you might want to ask that it be carried, but that's it's up to the chair. But I just want to confer with my client real quick to make sure you want to take a little recess to speak with your client. I want to make sure he doesn't smack me afterwards. So, I want to give permission to How long will you be, you think? Two minutes. Oh, two minutes. Okay. Five minute break.

The chair will entertain a fivem minute recess. Have a motion. Second. Second. Thank you.

and he's the only one we're waiting for. All right.

Well, he's not always here. He hasn't always been here, but

No, no problem. Glenn entertain a motion going back into session. move. Second, please. Thank you, Chairman. We're going to ask that uh that we pause where we are tonight. We're going to take the board's feedback and ask that we get a journal to the next meetings.

Oh, all right. Thank you, Marissa. What do we have on the upcoming agenda in September? As of right now, we have uh the Eli truck being carried to September um September 10th and Lewis Peralta September 10th. It's not guaranteed unless they don't submit all their documentations and get approved by Dave Simmons. Um other than that, um I think that's it as of right now. Just one application on September. Two, just two. Peralta and Alipa, they're going to be complicated, detailed applications, Glenn, as you know. So I don't know if if you're available for that September. I would put them I would put them in the Can you do it by September 10th?

I don't know if we can do it by September 10th, but I don't think we mind get pushed one one meeting after that. Oh, all right. So to October would be fine because again the September 10th meeting if you're on there might even get to you. That's how Well, Mr. Chairman, I I would suggest that they would be technically ahead of it and quite frankly uh but it doesn't sound like Todd's client is going to be ready. So carrying it to October whatever is probably really a good move. It'll be October October 8th will be the next meeting. October 8th and if I were him I would suggest that he has to be put on first. Sure. Well Harry, it's October 10th. It's not too controlling. Is it

October Octo It's October 8th. October 8th. Okay. No further notice. Correct. Yes, sir. Okay. Time. All right. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Thank you everyone. Right. Application 8-25. Yippy yards for D1 variance relief. Please come forward. This This was a good

evening, Mr. Chairman, board. It's me again tonight. Um, I'm here on behalf of Todd Booker from Ask Booker here on which is a art studio in the Lake Mohawk Plaza actually in the building. So, um here we are. We're going to go again and we're here for a D1 relief. Uh we get the arts and they applied for the zoning permit said, you know, we're an art gallery and we also want to be able to teach kids and adults about art and sperm. So, here we are.

Well, let's let's hold on a second now. Is that something that you didn't ask for an interpretation, did you, Todd? You just asked for a use variance. I'm There's no there's no criticism. I'm just asking. But if if the board's willing to consider

I I that's why just just let me talk to the board for a minute or two because maybe we don't have to waste time, but maybe we do. What they're looking to do is take an art gallery and have classes. It would not be different than a specialty food place having classes for cooking. And this is going on literally all over the state. You go down into Marstown and you see it in all different kinds of uses. I don't know whether you all have had one of these or not, but you hate to see something small like this coming in and needing to go through this. I mean, if you had a yarn store or if you had

you wanted to teach knitting classes yourself. Yeah. Ex Exactly. And they want to do it on site, it's in a commercial zone, uh you could certainly issue an interpretation of the ordinance saying that you think that that's use is substantially similar. I I I don't know you have a planner here that can certainly help you about this, but I looked at this application and I thought, boy, if if you're looking at something and you want to be a little proactive, well, I was surprised because the Drew Christ gallery used to have classes there when they had their gallery there. I don't think everybody heard you.

Oh, I The Drew Christ gallery used to be in that building years ago and they had classes. They had little drawing classes here and there in addition to the gallery. So, I was surprised to see this. And I don't know what you've seen, Richard. Yeah. No, I mean, another example is you go to Home Depot, they have classes for kids on how to do carpentry work. Yeah. Well, it's not even for kids. I mean,

but I mean, right there in the store to teach them how to use hammers and screwdrivers and everything else. And to me, this is a it's similar to what we went through out at the uh the campgrounds. Okay. This is a function that can be performed as part of use just because it's not it's not a use, it's a function of an art. Well, you just reminded me of another one. How many piano stores do you see or instrument stores that give lessons on site? When when does it cross over? When it's when it becomes an actual school or when it gives college credits? I mean, is there some kind of line?

That that could be the line. that or place of assembly that it meets the criteria as a place of assembly and as long as it's on the ground floor and it there's no questions about egress or things like that. Uh it's a function being performed as part of the sales

right and and trying to open up stuff and we do have some we do have some planning expertise from around the state sitting right there. What what what have you seen in other municipalities if you don't mind Mr. Chairman just asking these questions? Um, I would look at this as kind of an ancillary accessory use to what is the per the the principal use. Um, it's kind of something that you would see or I mean a Michael's store. They hold classes as well that are kind of craft oriented classes or

Yeah, my son's daycare is actually next door to a yarn store and they do have um like knitting circles and things like that. So I think when it becomes a principal use is when that is the sole purpose of what is happening there and based on what was submitted within the application. I would think this is very much just an accessory to the principal use and definitely something that is customarily used in an art store. Um I myself have an undergraduate degree in art. So, I spend a lot of time in art store uh stores and it's very common for art stores to have uh different types of classes or bookstores kind of when they close down at night and they have book signings and they have different authors come through. Um I think these are all kind of examples of different accessory uses for very particular types of principal uses. So I guess the question is is there a change in the use of the business to be primarily educational

or could you call it customary and incidental right which is which is the language and you know we have we have the voice of experience as our chair here. So I I I don't know whether Ken has other thoughts on this. Uh, I don't know about the interpretation since I I went through David's report and everyone's speaking about these classes, but that's going to trigger a lot of different issues that I went over in in his report. So, okay, how do we go forward, Glenn, if we want to do an interpretation or just for the use variance for the application?

I think Mr. Hooker could put his application forward. I'm throwing that out as a precursor because now uh I just it just seemed to me in looking around and thinking about it and I drive all over the state. I can't tell you how many different You want to have a cooking school in a restaurant and it's not even a school. You have cooking demonstrations demonstration or something.

Yeah. or even in like restaurants um they all have like a somalier come and explain the wines and do a wine tasting and the the main it's not a tasting room right but it is a restaurant so it's kind of these like uses that are customarily used as accessories to the principal use so why why don't we use that as a backdrop and then have let Mr. Hooker put his case on and then the board can figure out what direction it's actually going to go. Okay. So, in addition to the relief request in the application request for interpretation and or

you didn't even have to do that, Todd, because it's already been set up that the board will let's hear what you have to say and then the board will decide that Glenn's ought to be quiet or whatever.

Like you Mr. Ke when I when my client came to me and said they retail sales in here. We are and you know again potentially three but I think I have Annie and Peter. Peter's the artist but manager last names and they own the We need Peter as the artist. If you need some more questions answered, we can swear him in. But in terms of the business and how the dayto operations run, Annie is the right person.

Annie, rise up, please. Matt, let's swear you in at the same time. Both of you, you would you please raise your right hands? You both swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth proceedings before the board tonight. So, hope you got it. I do. I do. Who are you? My name is Annie Figureroa. Spell it Annie. F I Annie. A N Y. Annie. And last name F I G U E R O A and Matt Flynn. Okay. Council Todd. Qualify him real quick. Or he's been I'll take care of that when he come.

Todd, you know the format. After you're done with your application, we'll open it up to the planners report and David's report and then us, the board, and then the public. You're welcome. Please go ahead. I'm going to call you Annie instead of Miss Figuero. It's just easier. Is that all right? That's perfect. That's fine. Are you a little nervous? A little. I don't do good in public speaking. Everybody can hear a little louder into the microphones, please. Are you a little nerv you're a little nervous tonight? A little. I don't do well in public speaking. We're going to do our best to make you as comfortable as possible. Thank you. Can you explain to the board what your role is at Yippi Art? I manage the dayto-day activities and scheduling for Yippi Arts.

What What hours of operation is open for retail sales? For retails, we are open 11 to 6. 11:00 a.m. to 6 p.m. If the if the board allows either through an interpretation or use variance, Yippi Arts to to hold classes. Um, what would the hours of operations be? Um, uh, well, let's start. Let me back that up. What types of classes does Jippy Art want to give at at its studio?

So, we are focused on therapeutic art. Um, our classes will be a guided creative process that promotes uh emotional well-being. Um, with that we will be having workshops where it will be um doing mosaics, uh, step-by-step painting. Um, it'll be all different types of workshops that will involve art. So, some crafts maybe. Crafts. Yes, craft workshops. So, are there will be separate classes for adults and separate classes for kids? Yes. So, for adult classes, what would your hours of operation and days of the week you'd want to be able to host adult art classes? Can I just call them art classes? Yes. Okay.

Uh, so for those classes, it will be um 5:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. And that'll be throughout the year. And how many days a week? Um, it varies. So, it will be um I would say maybe like 3 to four days a week. So, like a like Thursday, Friday, Saturday or do you want to do Monday, Tuesday? What what days? The adult evening ones will be Thursday, Friday, and Saturday primarily. Yes. And you might have a fourth day in there somewhere. If there's like a special like a Valentine's Day special, um we would like to do like a class maybe in Wednesdays. So I would say four the most. Okay. So three to four days a week. Um so when you say 5 to 11, does that mean you might have say 3 to two hour classes that that day? Yes.

So 5 to 7, 7 to 9, 9 to 11? Yes. or maybe a half an hour in between the classes give you time to clean up type of thing. Yes. Okay. Now, if you want to host kids, um what would those times and days of the week be? For the children, it varies. For the summer classes, excuse me, Annie and Todd, can you pull that microphone closer to Sorry. So, for the summer classes, um it will be 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Uh Monday through Wednesday. Uh for Saturdays it will be 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. And you said for summer is there a different differentiation between summer and the school year? Yes.

Can you tell the board what what you mean by that? Uh so for the summer kids are off. Um we are able to we have the store open so we're able to provide workshops and classes during that time. And so for the summertime you want to be able to do three days a week Monday through Wednesday 11 to three. Yes. Somewhere in that range. Yeah. And then during the school year, is it just limited to one day? For during the school year, we are limited to Saturdays only. Okay. And that would be in the afternoon. Uh for Saturdays, we're thinking 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. That would allow then time for adult classes to resume Saturday night. Yes.

How many um what's the biggest class that you could host at Yippy Art Studio? 10. A maximum of 10 people, a maximum of 10 students. On the application, we indicated there might be 12. Can you explain what that means? Uh, I included myself and the artist to um I included that as the 10 participants and two staff. Okay. So, it's not really 12 participants plus two. It's 10 a maximum of 10 participants whether they're adults or kids. Yes. and two, you know, two people to Yes.

Um and then uh one of the other reliefs we're actually seeking tonight uh is uh for the sign

the um want to give some backup on this. Um within the application you can see um YP Arts submitted their sign application to the township um with with the way it's there now with you know all the lettering on it. Um it was approved. They got issued a building permit. The building permit signed off on by the town as being hokey do. They put the sign up and then they got a violation saying there's too much lettering on the sign. So we're asking I I don't understand it. The town approved the sign. The sign went up. The zoning officer came by and gave a violation for the sign. So, we're also seeking relief on the sign because we think it's consistent. Matt will testify on the sign stuff, but we think it's consistent with um the township and I want you to tell the board sort of how that process worked for you. When did you make your sign application? Did you understand you had an approval? Just go through that with the board. And excuse me, Todd, did your client go before the planning board, minor site plan committee and sign committee recently, too?

Uh, we we went we applied uh we got the approval. There was no changes to the sign, just the name change. Um, and we got the approval and from the planning board committee, the site plan committee. Um it was a an email that was sent to us. Um an email was sent to us approving the sign and then we also received um I believe it was like a little receipt. Yeah, it's in the the all the sign information is in the application itself. Let me see if I can find the email, but we have the building

the approval. They got it. You have a legitimate building permit that was signed off on by either the zoning officer or the construction department. Yeah. And then a month later, we received a um notice of a not Yeah. A notice of violation telling us that we needed to remove it. The April 24th memo from the U Township Planning Board minor site plan committee on Do you have that too there, Todd? what they the building permits from March 12th, 2025. And it says Yippi Art awning.

Yeah. There were pictures uh of the awning that was ultimately installed submitted to the board for approval because I can read it real fast for your

comment might help. They said the sign ban should be limited to the Yippi Yard's name and logo. Advertising slogans are not permitted and are not consistent with the surrounding business's signage. The band sign shall not exceed 50% of the wall width to which it is attached or 12 ft whichever is less. The name and logo on the sign and awning counts as an additional sign and follows the same requirements as noted above. The yes, we are open sign counts as an additional sign as well and internally lit signs are prohibited. Comprehensive sign plan showing the size, configuration, location, color, and letter style must be submitted with the application along with the type of material being proposed. The TCC zone calls for natural materials. Please refer to all design standards that are available in the zoning office. If the application requires a waiver from the design standards, it must be referred to the planning board for consideration.

I haven't seen that memo. Did you? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Um, this was after it was approved, I believe. So, the building permit was issued, the sign went up, and then the memo came out. That's right. So, that's some confusion. So, we're going to ask this board for approval to sign. We have pictures consistent with the Nori sign, the barber shop sign. All look exactly the same, but we have pictures uh to show you, but uh All right, please continue.

Um we might as well do that. Mr. Flynn's going to talk about the dimensions and all the all the other. I think it's appropriate to do it now to show you the signings we're talking about. the first page. Thank you. So, um, referring to A1, can you on the second page there's a picture of

your building, correct? Yes. And the It's uh the awning with the signage on it. Is that what was submitted to the the building committee? Yes. For the uh building department? Yes. All right. You thought you had approval for that? Yes, I did. We go to page uh three. What is What does page three depict? Excuse me, Todd. Would you mind using that handheld microphone? Oh, thanks, Lindsay. make it a little easier. Thank you.

Are you able to I mean everybody can see it. So, um does this depict all the awnings that are on on the uh the separate businesses that are in on this building? Yes, those are all those signs. So, other than the the signage area is consistent with the barber shop and and the Anor, correct? Yes, we follow the same consistency. That was your your you tended to follow what was there, correct? Yes. You weren't trying to sneak anything by anybody. No. Okay. And then the fourth the fourth page shows a Nor from the front. Correct.

Yes. And each of the businesses has their name at least three times. Correct. The Nor and the Plaza Barber Shop. Correct. Yes. Correct. And and yours is only on there twice, correct? Only twice. Yeah. In any event, when you hung the you had the awning hung, you thought you had approval from the township, correct? Yes, I did. Now, there one of the other things that um that is a an issue is the uh the open sign that's lit in the in the in the window there. Do you see that? Yes. Um, there's also one of those in in the adjacent in the barber shop, correct? Yes.

You have any reason to think you couldn't have an open sign like the barber shop had? Um, there's a open sign like that on the barber shop. There's one like around where the ice cream store is. Um, there's a few open signs around. Um, and I thought that that was okay, too. I didn't think that we needed a permit for that. And then there's a a sign on the front door for your hours, correct?

Yes. So, those are the multiple signs that that have been found offensive. Um, anyway, Mr. Flynn will talk about uh the variance relief we're requesting from that. I I don't have any additional questions for for Annie at this point in time. Okay. And I guess Mr. Flynn is next.

Thank you, Annie. feel like I was just here. Uh, Mr. Flynn, can you please explain to the board why you think um either an interpretation or use variance would be appropriate and why the uh the variance relief for the signage uh is is consistent or not inconsistent with the zone plan. Uh yeah, so as we heard this is a proposal to add an additional service to an existing uh business here. I would say that the proposed art lessons as we discussed at the outset here are an essential component of the um existing business as being an art gallery. And specifically when we look at the ordinance, there's specific language as is customary to um several ordinances that I've seen that state that accessory uses that are customarily incidental to the um permitted uses shall be uh permitted here. Here I would say that that falls into that category. Um, but really I think at the end of the day, uh, this is a use that's going to benefit the Lake Mohawk Plaza. It's going to benefit the community, um, kids of all ages, adults, etc. Um, so again, just to get into the use variance, um, I'll hand this out in a minute, but again, we look to site suitability for the same reasons that we did for the last application. Um, when we have a use variance, we need to look at the site itself. Can it accommodate it? Is it a um ideal location for the use here? Again, this is complimentary to an existing business. We're not introducing something that's wholly new to the area. Um when we look at most of the permitted uses in the zone, uh most of them would

not really be able to be accommodated in the space that we're talking about. This is a highly permissive zone that permits things like uh restaurants, um mixed use theaters, um bed and breakfast. Here we're talking about a relatively small space in this multi-tenented uh business. So this is a good fit for that space I would say. And also this is a highly walkable area again as we know right in Lake Mohawk Plaza. Uh so this isn't the only thing to do in the area. As we know, there's several other shopping opportunities, restaurants, and the like. Really, you can make a whole day out of this. Whatever age group you happen to be in, um, this is an added, uh, activity for you in the area. So, complimentary to the plaza itself. In terms of the positive criteria, again, we look to the municipal land use law, the purposes, uh, the reason we have zoning in the first place. Purpose A, promotion of the general welfare. Uh as we know art has many benefits. Educational benefits, child developmental benefits, um therapeutic self-regulation when we talk about kids, cognitive benefits, uh giving kids an opportunity to express themselves, giving them an outlet, allowing them to explore that creative um facet that that is ingrained in us. In terms of community and cultural benefits, again, this is a use that can serve all ages. um uh in terms of cultural benefits, cultural literacy. Um this is something that can give kids an opportunity to learn about culture, art. Um and finally, I would say importantly, this is a safe afterchool activity, which we know is something that's very important to what we like to call neighborhood oriented uh areas. Giving kids a safe activity to pursue after school, keeping them out of trouble trouble, giving them

a nice hobby to to take care to um to spend their time doing. Purpose G, variety of uses in appropriate locations. Again, I talked about site suitability. I think this is the ideal location. This is an area where we want kids walking around. We want people enjoying all the activities and and amenities that we have here. uh purpose I desirable visual environment. Again, we're not expanding the uh massing. We're not proposing any additional signage than what we have um existing and we have the benefit of seeing exactly what that looks like. Purpose M, efficient use of land. Again, making the best use of this existing tenant space. Uh given all of those permitted uses here, I think this is really something that fits nice uh given what we have here. the negative criteria, no substantial detriment to the public or to the zone. We heard from our applicant that this is going to be a controlled environment in terms of scheduling. Um, she has a limit on in terms of the number of students, the number of classes, uh, the times of those lessons, etc. Um, I would say this is not a substantial departure from what's permitted in the zone. As I said, this is a highly permissive zone that permits things like retail, residential, theaters, etc. But I would say importantly, um, institutional uses are a permitted use in the zone, which based on my experience, that actually does typically include, uh, educational facilities. Um, but in this case, it's been interpreted that this would not fall into that category. But uh having said that some of the other uses nonprofit clubs uh lodges, fraternal organizations, house of worship, these are all uses that have group activities baked into them as again being customarily incidental. Um there's typically an educational component in by

way of seminars, things of that nature that um that are uh part and parcel with some of those uses. Finally, when we look at the TCC zone, just to quote the the uh the zoning ordinance, quote, to encourage the continued use of existing buildings and to appropriate reuses. I think that fits in with what we're proposing here. And the purpose of the zone itself is to provide community commercial uses. As I said, this is a communityfriendly land use um for all those reasons that I that I talked about. So I think the use really is uh highly appropriate not only in general for the zone but also for this site itself. Um it's not going to detract from the neighborhood but rather I think it is actually going to complement it. Um again providing an act an activity for all age groups to really take advantage of. Okay. So the the signs that we talked about I don't think we need this actually. I'll just we have the picture that was um if it comes up we can maybe refer to this but yeah so we have the the picture that Mr. Hooker handed out of the signage that we're proposing. Uh yeah. So on A1 page two, we have the the building itself. If we flip through here, page um three of exhibit A1 and page four show the other businesses on this property. Um, there is actually language in the ordinance that says that if we have multiple businesses or uses or buildings on one property, we want the signage to be substantially consistent. Here, we're looking at all black awnings across the property. The the text, I would say the font is not uh inconsistent

throughout. Um, the the size of the font, etc. really I think we have nice consistency all through the property there. Um so just to let the board know what we're looking at in terms of the C variances. This is an awning obviously as we can see here and awnings are specifically contemplated and given requirements in other zones. In this zone we don't have that. Um, but we do have Miss Knight's planning report here, which now we have the benefit of having the dimensions. So, I can start filling in these blanks here. So, in terms of height, uh, 2 feet is required, whereas we have a, uh, well, we actually comply with that since our the front panel of our awning is 9 in by 246 in. The 240 is the length. The 9 in is the height. So I believe we comply with the height requirement. The width I suppose is technically a variance. We are permitted to go up to 12 ft whereas the 246 just let me do that math here. I don't want to mess it up. I think that's the size of the awning, but the actual signage is smaller. the letter,

right? So, I guess it's up it's up I would I would look to Mr. Kees and Miss Knight as to how we interpret when we're looking at an awning. Are we looking at the text itself? Are we looking at the the front panel of the awning? Maybe we should start there. Done with that stuff. Excuse me. On the our board engineer have mentioned too that you probably would need a variance that you were just suggesting, Mr. Flynn on the u on the width.

Okay. Yeah. And if if that's the way that it that we'll um that we'll call that, that's fine. So, I guess we'll look at a width variance and likely in that if that's how we're viewing it, likely an area variance, but I would say these are hyper techchnical variances. Here we're looking at an awning. We're not looking at building signage or or freestanding signage, monument signs. Again, it's consistent with what we have throughout the property. It's not going to stand out. It's going to blend in nicely with what we have um elsewhere. And excuse me, Glenn, you were

I just asked what the board had done past interpreting what the sign was, whether it was the letters or the actual block or how how you did it in the past. I don't remember. Be honest. You got me. Okay. So, you'll make some decisions tonight.

Yeah. To play it safe, I guess we'll request that variance and ask to um for it to be looked at in the under the C2 standard. The benefits of the application, which I went through extensively, I think uh substantially outweigh any detriments. Uh here in terms of negative impacts, I would say there are none that rise to the level of being substantial. Again, it blends in with what we have around us. It's just a continuation of the rest of the building. Um and so with that I would say again this is a substantially compli uh sub substantially appropriate aesthetic um that we're seeking this evening and if there's

would your would your opinion also be the same as with respect to the illumination? I would. Yeah, I would. If we look at some of the other pictures that we have here, we see that those signs in windows are not atypical on this property. All right, Mr. Flynn. I'm all right. We can go over David Simmons report July 11th 20. That's I notice it says July 11, 2023. Is that a misprint, Marissa? You think on David's report? See what you have, Todd? If it's the same data,

that's what I have as well. 2023. Yeah, which has to be wrong. Guys, if you look at the next page, it's got the right date. But the see that now in the header. We can go to point two completeness. Following items from the form five minor site plan checklists are incomplete. Item 22, location and details of all lighting fixtures. Item 25, copy of any protective covenant or deed restrictions for the land. Yeah, correct. There is an approval from the lake in here. Yes.

Everything that we're asking the board tonight for the lake is already approved. They supposed to come back to the didn't and we haven't changed anything. All right.

Now, he mentioned something about the 200 foot notice for public notice with the That was all complete, right? Yeah. I'm new at this. I'm being David's assistant engineer tonight going over the report. So, you know,

the application's not complete. I know. I know. We can go down to zoning uh 3B. He mentions besides the awning and signage, applicants not proposing any exterior changes to the existing building or subject property based on the property survey submitted existing setbacks and various bulk requirements do not meet the requirements of the TCC zone. However, these are existing conditions which are not being increased by proposed application which we know and uh 3C the proposed R classes are not permitted in the TCC zone. A use variance is required. Go to four site plan a that the depth of the proposed awning to be provided and confirmed based on the artisan awning company invoice 6863. It appears the awning will project 28 in from the wall it is mounted on. Based on the property survey setback shown, the awning would still be within the limits of the subject property and not encroach over to the road right away. The applicant to confirm the awning depth, which I think you covered, Mr. Flynn, the awning depth.

Do we have that on here? some of these dimensions but it is consistent with the fit all the parking circulation of five aan indicates the art class would consist of a maximum 12 people and occur in the afternoon evening hours he asked about the hours time etc which you covered subject property does not have any on-site parking spaces and patrons will have to used the parking in the White Deer Plaza area or off-site locations. Applicant to provide testimony on the estimated number of parking spaces required and the duration of the parking spaces will be occupied.

I think the um we didn't cover that directly, Mr. But if there's 10 people and they all drive separately spaces in the public lot down at Lake Mohawk members they get to park for free. Good point. Mohawk parking and there's non lake moing the lights basic are for members the yellow spaces you pay by an app. You guys have all been down there you know. So and even

microphone Todd thank you. Uh, correct. The uh the the parking in in the Lake Mohawk parking plaza is white spaces are for members. There's no charge if you're a Lake Mohawk member. If you're not a member, it's the yellow stripe spaces and you pay on your phone by an app. So, if there's 10 participants and they all drive separately, it' be maximum of 10 spaces, you know, but some people might come together because a lot of people will especially the adult classes, you know, they'll say, "Hey, let's go down and do this class together and maybe they'll drive together." So, but a maximum of 10 spaces for for for parking requirements. And then we we discussed the um um the hours and all the other stuff. I think Mr. Simmons raised.

Thank you. No storm drainage mitigation required. Lighting plan seven plans do not indicate if the FCOD signage will be illuminated and if so, how and during what hours? Well, the open sign is only on when they're open. She testified about the hours,

right? Of course, no exterior changes, no landscaping proposed utilities. We know the existing building is third by township water system septic system. No upgrades needed. Signs 11 which we covered. But for the record, no individual sign should exceed 24 square ft. Provide dimensions of the proposed awning signage.

Well, that would that was a variance. Yeah. And we get to the maximum sign height shall not exceed 10% of the wall height or 2 feet whichever is less. And um the maximum sign width shall not exceed 50% of the wall width or 12 feet whichever less. And we know you need the variance for that. The sign on the awning appears to be one color. Correct. Please confirm. It's just white. Correct. Yes.

No environmental impact statement was necessary. Then miscellaneous improvers approvals. Sussex County Planning Board site plan waiver and sported township construction official for signage. And then of course we'll need the ads plans upon completion of the project. You kind of have them already, but we can resubmit them. It's it's not on. Well, that's David. He's very particular. Yeah. We'll we'll resubmit the the asbuilt pictures.

And then Lindsay, if you're so kind to give your planners report. Um yeah. So just out of curiosity, I did the um using the lettering sizing to determine the width and I believe that you're just under 12 feet. I think it's like 11.16 feet. So we don't know. what the board is using if it's the size of the yarn or something with or it's just the lettering.

If it's just the lettering, it's I think I believe 11.16 on the main and then the other one would be just because the other one just says yippy yard is just the 50 in um on the the one that's on the corner. Um so in my opinion, I think if it's under those 12 feet, it it would not need that width requirement. Um, and I'm I'm not sure how I typically would just do the overall size of it. So, you just take the largest letters, largest width, and do it that way. Um, I believe that is how it's calculated as well here. Um, and um, I just had one question regarding the I just was looking quickly on Google Earth Street View. There are two um two open signs and then a light up pallet of paint um on the So this is also from a May of 2025. So these may have been taken down as well.

Yeah. Oh, did you have how many open signs do you have? Yeah, one or two. Okay, that that's we all we need is to have one. Yeah, I just want I just wanted a confirmation on the number of signs and then the other confirmation I wanted cuz just looking quickly at street the Google Street View um I know you said that in the letter it said the sign on the door which is the hours of operation. Is that a sign or is that just a piece of paper hanging in the door? That's just a piece of plastic um paper that you put on the door when you're open and when you're closed but you you just turn it. Got it. Okay. Thank you. That was all. And thank you, Lindsay Mercer, can you please call on the board members. Landon Tineri,

I have no questions. Michael Josk, no questions. Richard Larua, no questions. Michael Leandi, nothing for me. Thanks. Richard Roger, no questions at this time. Jennifer Panaha, no questions. Chairman Kenneth Larry, no questions. I'll now open it to the public for any comments or questions they have on this application. Please come forward and state your name and address. Hi, Beth Broadick, North Shore, Sparta. I'm sorry, Beth. You got to talk a little louder. Oh, sure. Beth Northshore. Is it Beth Roberts? Broadick. It wasn't even close. I answered everything. Um, just two quick questions. Does Did you give the address to

Yeah, North. All right. Thank you. um for Lake Mohawk because it's in the historic district and it's technically in the Lake Mohawk reservation. Does Lake Mohawk have to sign off on awnings and what's going on and make sure that they're in compliance with the aesthetics of Lake Mohawk since it's technically a historic district. It was and also um Hold on. Let's let's deal with each question one at a time. Sorry, I'm used to like the five minute thing with the with town council. You're in a different house. Uh, you got a Lake Mohawk approval already, didn't you? I did. Yes. Would you like You have it too, Todd, right? The approval letter. The approval letter. Yes.

Yes. Okay. And then I I fully support you. I grew up in Lake Mohawk, so I get it. In fact, my father went to the barber. Would you please address the board? So, the other question I have is with the parking. Um it's kind of a t you kind of touched on it already but um with parking has not been addressed because the plaza is pretty tight and they have a 2-hour limit um up in that plaza. So I just wanted to make sure that that's bundle approved and you know also everything's kind of been run by Lake Mohawk and their board of trustees as well to keep them happy because I'd hate for them to come back and change everything after the fact. Now

the uh everything that's being presented to the board tonight has been presented to Lake Mohawk in their planning review committee. Okay. We have the approval from Lake Mohawk dated January 9th, 2025. It's in the application which you if you had come down you could have been able to see but uh yes it's been approved by Lake Mohawk. It's only 10 people. I know I'm fully on board with it. I just want to make sure that there's you know we're all above board. Thank you. Thank you Beth. Yep. Anyone else please come forward? If not, it's now closed to the public and back to the board. So, M. Todd,

you were asking about the interpretation or the actual application as use variance.

Yes. I mean, so the um again, I I was surprised we had to be here for use variance. um the um it's really up to the board because if you grant the interpretation um then it's it doesn't become a uh an approval that runs with the land, right? But if you do, then it does. So, I really I do think this could be an interpretation. It seems to me that the classes they're proposing, the use that that that they're they're using the property for, those are ancillary and incidental to what you would normally have with an art gallery. Customary. I mean, I think that that your planner testified to that. Um, but I really leave it to the board. Either way, as long as my client gets their approval, I don't think they care how they get there.

So, why don't we go forward with the application as a use and we can uh I can make a motion to uh approve the application. Is that okay, Glenn? Absolutely. Do I have a motion to approve this application? Sure, Mr. Chairman. Mike. Yeah. I'll make a motion to have the board attorney draft a resolution approving application uh number 8-25 for Yepyards LLC block 5031 lot 7 at 14 Winona Parkway sweet 4 for a D1 use variance to allow instructional art classes uh where they're not explicitly um allowed previously and you know I kind of got lost here are we do we really need a C variance after all or or do we not for the width for the width we do

we've got to the width of what the sign. That was what you were I thought you heard from your planner that you don't that's No, we don't. That's what I heard. Oh, all right. I misunderstood. Just use using the um awning dimensions that they provided there's lettering sizes and using those calculations I was able to determine that the width um of the Yippy Art Art Gallery and You think it we created would be under the 12 feet which I believe is less than 50% of the Wasn't there something about the logo? I mean about the um it's just a logo and the name, not the tagline. So would they need anything for that? Yeah. How do we how do we clean this up? So

the the total square foot if that if we're doing the lettering itself, the total square feet that we have with all the slogans and um is seven square feet. We're allowed to go up to 24. So we're still substantially under. I I think I would what I would want to avoid any future issues is that the sign as presented is approved and with one illuminated open sign allowed. So the the awning with the signage on it as presented to the board which is how it exists today. Yay, it's been approved and and was previously, right? We Yeah, my client thought it was but but then it then it wasn't

right. That's why that I I I think that's the way to go rather than try and what was that thing? I was just saying we should just formalize everything that they have as approved maybe so that they don't you know there's no question at all. Well and the the method to the madness which I think is really good is already got permits right for all the stuff anyway. So if you take it and you affirm it and say they've gotten all the variances, they've all been subsumed under everything. That way if if you missed one little nick of a corner or something that Matt Flynn was talking about, you're just going to drive yourself crazy.

Well, we never miss Glenn. You know that. Well, and if we have all the measurements for everything, then the next if you know should they go to another spot, then we have that all recorded for what the next person can do. Well, good luck figuring it out. All right, Mike, you can. Um, so how about amendment accepted? Good. Thank we need a second, please. Second. Second. Any discussion? Marissa, please call the role. Landon Tineri, yes. Michael Joseph, yes. Richard Larufa, yes. Michael Leundi, yes. Richard Roarbacker, yes. Jennifer Paha, yes. Chairman Kenneth Larry, yes. Congratulations and good luck.

Thank you. Congratulations. Never had that before. Oh, you want to owe to wave your right to the resolution? Well, let's I want to just put something on the record and help help me just I I think we I think the board's been more than helpful tonight. So the the last question that I have of you is what else is it that you need to construct or put on the site as a result of the decision that the board rendered tonight? Nothing. Ready to go. Uh you could certainly Did you just ask for that? Okay.

You're the board's all right. I quite frankly I don't think they have to wave for it, but is the board willing to wave to allow them to wave receipt? The chair will entertain a motion waving. So moved. Second. Second. Second. Uh all all agree. I I All right, you're set. Again, good luck. One last point. Anyone in the board here for comments or questions for items that were not on the agenda tonight, please come forward. Seeing no one, thank you very Hearing is now adjourned. The chair will entertain a motion of journ.

Second, please second. Everyone in favor I. Thank you. The eyes have good luck. You know, I did out to