Zoning Board Meetings - Regular Meeting

the meeting is also being live streamed on YouTube adequate notice of this meeting was provided in New Jersey Harold who was also posted on the sparta Township website and its bulletin board in accordance with all provisions of the open public meetings act also no new business or testimony to be heard after 9:30 p.m. and we adjourn the meeting at 10 p.m. sharp it's a practice of this board to salute the flag please rise and join us pledge allegiance to the flag United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice riss please call the rooll Jennifer Paha here Michael josic here Richard larua here Michael Leoni here Richard robacker here Lena tenir here chairman Kenneth Larry here thank you we have two resolutions to be memorialized the first one is application 13-24 Steven Cason block 3015 lot 16 the R3 Zone decided on January 8 2025 for C variance relief CH entertain a motion so moved so moved second second any discussion Marissa please call the role Jennifer Paha yes Michael josic yes Rich Lupa yes Michael Lei yes Lena teneri yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes also have application 19-24 Charles Warner block 4001 lot 151 R3 Zone decided on January

8 2025 for C variant relief the chair detain a motion so move second please second any discussion Marissa please call the rooll Jennifer Paha yes Michael jic Yes Richard larua yes Michael Leoni yes lenet teneri yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes we also have minutes to be approved from November 13 2024 chair entertain a motion so moved second please second any discussion M please call the role Jennifer Paha yes Michael jic yes Jill Rua yes Michael Lei yes Richard robacker yes Lena teneri yes Ken chairman Kenneth Larry yes also we have minutes from December 11 20124 to be approved the chair let detain a motion don't move second please second any discussion Marissa please call the RO Jennifer Paha yes Michael jik yes larua obain I wasn't at the meeting I'm sorry uh Michael Lei yes Richard robacker I abstain I wasn't at the meeting L tener I will abstain as well I was not at the meeting chairman Kenneth Larry yes we also have correspondence for our revised meeting dates for this board for 2025 if you notice on the list October 8th and January 14th were the two revised dates just for the record I'm sorry January what January 14 2026 and October 8th there were two

misprints originally on the list so they correct now okay any questions on that I for the public hearing tonight we have application 61 19711 for extension of time we also have application 12-24 Sussex County Charter TCH schol for D variance relief also application 1323 for D Anderson the D variance relief application 3-23 and 4-23 John Meli Roco saulo block 32004 Lots 234 and five in the r2z uh zone for C variance relief and also block 32006 Lots 567 and 8 for C variance relief will be carried to the March 12th 2025 meeting with further notice required for both applications and after the applications are heard tonight I'll open the hearing to the public for comments and questions that are not on the agenda tonight all right the first uh application 7-Eleven please come forward for the extension of time good evening Mr chairman on members of the board Jason tubel uh attorney for the applicant um we're here for a six-month extension um I've been speaking with both uh the board attorney Mr ke and the board engineer um Mr Simmons on this so we need an additional

six months Beyond um January of this year from when we our last extension would have expired 7-Eleven did obtain all of its Outside Agency approvals as well as has all the resolution compliance items so they did do that um the issue is the the extensions were granted or were asked for previously due to covid and due to the fact that the at 7-Eleven as a corporation purchased Speedway and a lot of the projects uh that were in the pipeline were put on hold we are um ready to proceed um all the compliance documents have been sent to Mr Simmons the main item that we have to work on in the next 6 months is the fact that despite the fact that we got our do and D permits we have to renew them um unlike a a maybe a land use application where we just come here and ask for the extension we have to renew them so what we discussed with Mr Simmons and with Mr Keen is that if the board were inclined to Grant the extension for those six months we would provide them with a sket we' provide those professionals as well as the board with a schedule for our construction timeline um as well as keeping them a breast of those um Outside Agency permits with the goal to start construction um by July so we're asking for that extension um it was very um accommodating of Mr Simmons and Mr Keen to work with us on a on a solution to make sure that now that we're ready to go forward that um that that we can work with so I appreciate that you know Mr toell I've been on this board for almost 25 years I hate to admit and I've never seen this board not these members other board members of course in the past Grant more than three extensions this was set president tonight if we Grant a fourth extension to your client but let me just finish a minut sure it seems to always be the same issue with

construction and budget delays budget and construction does it have anything to do what 7-Eleven is going through the 7 and I Holdings parent company that runs 7-Eleven stores in regard to Circle K K KR IO i t o c hu Bain Capital all coming together one way or another for a merger or buying out 7-Eleven so that's my only concern it just keeps going on and on and on and I think it's more than budget and construction bu what you did with Mr Simmons and Mr KS but it's getting a little out of hand now and with all this going on I think that that's the issue that your client is sort of waiting to see what happens with one of these buyouts or mergers and this board is not in the business of granting extensions to satisfy a potential Financial outcome of your client I I don't I don't disagree with anything you're saying regarding those issues um uh all I would say to you is I've not been made aware of those Financial or business considerations that you that you've talked about me me personally I've not been when I when I asked the client about the the basis for the for the request it had to do with the fact that things were on hold during covid and then the only financial consideration given that I was disc that I was told about was the speedway acquisition that took place several years ago um but it's up to the board and I think that's part of the reason why we discussed unlike a typical extension where you would ask for the one year and then go about your business that we'd have we'd have to give the board and its professionals a timeline for all of these milestones and that's also why I think Mr ke when I when I

approached him about this issue and I know he's not here so it's hard for me to speak for him oh oh I didn't see you oh was on by oh okay okay is he he basically held me on a very tight leash that it we couldn't ask for another year and that at a minimum it would that at most we get 6 months and that there would be a lot of stipulations that we would have to deal with as part of the extension and we were willing to and we are willing to work with the board should they be willing to do so on those items I do think unlike your your tenure on the on the board Mr chairman which is 25 years and that's that's that's great I've now been doing luse for 21 I know Glenn's got me beat but you did did have the covid situation occur literally I was looking at the old at the resolution that granted this it literally happened two months after the resolution was adopted so I do agree with the with the statement that you made earlier which is a it's unusual and B the board is not in the business of dealing with the financial issues of of applicants I don't disagree with any of that so that's why but in this situation you did have covid and you know I'm asking for for one more of six months with us having to be on top of these Outside Agency approvals and construction phasing with your professionals the board you know it's up to you but I understand and I respect what you said I do think though that the situation is somewhat unique um versus the prior years that you have served on the board where you didn't have the the covid issue um but it's up to you and I I I can assure you that we will work diligently with the board Mr ke and Mr Simmons's office to keep them posted on on where we are you know Mr toal with the co issue that's a while back I I

understand two more extensions after that I I I I I I'm not I'm not trying to I'm not disagreeing with you on a lot of what you're saying but I do think it's a little bit unique um and like I said unlike a typical extension where I would say give us the one year and we'll be back and hopefully we'll get it done I am completely on board with what and again it's up to the board to do it but what we discussed with Mr ke and Mr Simmons regarding certain time frames that have to be um abided by certain report almost reporting and providing of schedules that have to be done and if it's not done by that July date then we can't come back and ask for another one and that's it so I'm pleading I'm almost pleading with you to give us one more chance within this six-month period And if we can't do it we understand we won't be back or we will be and have to start again thank you Mr Marissa would you call on the board members for questions please Jennifer Paha hi uh I have a couple questions um I think the part that's most difficult for me in granting some kind of extension is that um the area where 7-Eleven is proposing to build you've got those four Lots there right so you've got 7-Eleven you've got a corner lot that's vacant then you've got an auto parts store and then You' got the other one um and in that time it's become really rund down there's a lot of litter on the empty lots um and the auto parts store is you know in a state of decay so um I'm just wondering you know is there is there some way that we could I don't know um and I also feel like there's a lot of complexity around what 7-Eleven is going through there's you know there's a lot of moving Parts when it comes to their corporate stuff

and that may impact this you know this building schedule seems to me to be volatile because there's just a lot going on with them you know so I just wonder if there's uh some way that we could uh first of all get the commitment to clean up the property and make some improvements so that we're not dealing with a state of decay um while we're you know waiting and maybe you know entertain a shorter time frame Because unless you can get those those permits quickly it just seems like we we're probably going to be in another year you know waiting zone right yeah so so can I respond to that Mr chairman is okay so um I'm fine with your stipulation on um the maintenance of the site if that's if there's I'm not personally aware of it but if there are things that have to be done we will do that and if that's a condition of the resolution we would do that um and the request per my conversation with Mr kees was not for the was not for an additional year like a typical extension would be it's only for six months so it wouldn't be so that way we were held on like a tighter leash so to speak to report back to the board on on timing yeah I didn't mean to seem doubtful about being able to complete that but it sounds like you're trying to break rly so that's you know it's just at the very end of the very end that's all yeah I mean if we could do it sooner we would do it I I just felt that that when when um when we talked about whether I could ask for another year I was told ask for six months so that's what I asked for but if the board felt if the board wanted to give us a shorter time frame to you know try to see if we can get into the to push us harder I mean I I know I have the commitment from the client they've indicated that to me I've um I've brought my professionals um on calls with Mr Simmons and Mr ke so they could explain where we are in the

process as well so they've been authorized to to move forward but um we'd be willing to work with the board on any stipulations that you felt were appropriate in connection with the extension do you have any insights on um how how much longer it it's going to take to get those permits are they in process or how yeah so what what we were what we discussed um I don't know Glenn if you want to um jump in as well but um what what what we what we discussed was we'd be able to uh start um construction hopefully sooner rather than later before July on the site um get Comfort letters from the do that they're going to renew the approvals that they Pro that they originally um provided um the septic approval from D my Engineers feel we should be able to get before that time frame expires so it was only the dot issue um which we could get the Comfort letter and then we would bond for those areas but but start work before that so the goal would be to start by that July date we we think it's possible and that's what we were trying to work at with Mr Simmons's office as well sure Michael jic yeah I just struggling a little bit um you know you seem to be hopping back and forth um initially you wanted to ask for another year um and you were advised by in your conversation with Mr ke that you know that probably wouldn't be palatable to the board so maybe go for 6 months and now all of a sudden you seem gho that Um this can be done in six months I'm just kind of uh struggling to I guess understand if if this could even be done um so once I was told that that would be the like maximum date that we could ask for we went back to our professionals

and kind of worked through those items and then um when we understood what those issues would be that's when we got Mr ke and Mr Simmons on the phone to discuss them and we worked out sort of a timeline to try to figure out how to how to get started on construction so it was really once we were back we were told to ask for six months we tried to work through how to get to where we want to be by that by that period so that was kind of what drove that time frame and also I and I don't know if everybody body uh was on the board at that time I know some board members were but we also you know really worked with the neighbors on this site and the board in terms of the buffering in the rear um the architecture of the building um which we knew was important to the board and um you know those would all obviously um still be in play um and you know if we had to start over I just think it would be it would be unfortunate but you know I do understand that this is you know somewhat of an unusual request at the same time so I do think the six months with a tight leash in terms of you know holding our feet to the fire that we have to get this done is just is maybe a fair way to just try to give us an opportunity to do this and you're saying then in six months construction doesn't commence then you guys would not come back here for another extension my the the what the feel that I'm getting from the board is you're struggling with giving us this extension beyond the three years so coming back would be um I think I don't from what I'm feeling would not be uh worthwhile and that you're basically telling us that this is it if you're going to Grant it so that's what I'm feeling and that's what I'm hoping we I'm hoping we can get started at leise is that something could be memorialized in the resolution that um your final extension yeah okay all

right I have no more questions okay Richard larua yeah my my concern I was on the board from the I remember and the plan was is is excellent I have no problem with the plan that what you want to build but again following with was said before part of the concern is the the uh the old Auto Parts building is is dilapidated people are parking right in front of it right now I don't know who's using that for parking if it's a building next door or spot Auto ports there storing cars there but people have access to that part of the site and uh schedules are great but schedules uh what in the in the do permit prevents you from starting construction so um in typically you would start construction when you have all your Outside Agency permits so what we discussed with um Mr Simmons and Mr ke was that in order to get going what we would do is so let me back up the the the the concern that was brought up was from the professionals were do you think there will be any issues renewing your do permit okay so we had a conference call with our traffic expert and Mr Simmons to discuss that and our traffic expert in speaking with the dot believes that there there's no issues getting our um permit again because the access will remain the same it complies with all DOT requirements there's no waivers being requested in terms of distance or driveway um um widths or anything of those need along those lines so what we discussed was was starting everything that did not result in the dot RightWay getting going and then once we were further along with construction we should have that DOT permit and we should be able to do the work in the right of way and complete the construction so to your point the goal is to start everything that doesn't involve the dot right

away so you're saying you can theoretically start that that's our goal and working with Mr Simmons's office on that yes and all the plans have been completed like all the resolution compliance plans have been done revising them pursuant to the board's comments in the in the resolution as well as the outside as well as excuse me Mr Simmons review letter as well so all that's been done oh yeah again my my concern is if if it's your property and people are parking their cars there daily so I I'm not aware of that but if the board I I it's a valid concern and if the board wants that to be a condition of the extension as well that we have to Abate that issue then that's fine again I'm not I wasn't aware of that but um and the client didn't bring to my attention that they've received any notices or anything on that issue but if that's going on we will Abate that that's fine yeah and again my my my concern is also that it sounds like everything is proceeding as normal but the bureaucracy is holding it up that's that's what it sounds like you need a rubber stamp from do something that everybody else thinks is is running smoothly uh to get to get the permit the the only good news I could report on that is that our traffic engineer indicated that they got the approval the first time and that nothing's changed and none of the regs have changed so they should be able to get that again um and we can work out a way where we could start construction get it going and hopefully once the dot is permit is issued we can finish the work in the right away obviously we couldn't get a CO until that was all completed we also talked with um Mr Simmons about um and he felt this was important and you can correct me if I'm wrong um but he also felt it was critical and he was part of the original application as as were you and the chairman I think uh some of you were also yeah okay I I recognize the the faces you guys were all part of it and remember we were here at three or

four meetings we went through a lot it was very comprehensive that working on the um the buffering uh to the neighbors getting that going to start and also you know making sure that they were screened from the construction was important and we agreed that we would work on that as part of the um as part of the construction schedule okay so again we felt it was a fair compromise knowing that the request was unusual so thank you you know Mr toal it's just sounds like the same reasons for all the other extensions and it just seems never to get done the what you're mentioning now in this 11th hour because of this potential fourth extension that it just seems the same information from the last two three times put Co out of this but the last two it just seems to be the same thing we're going to try to get it done in six months we're g to try this we're g to try that never Chang it Mr chairman I can't dispute anything you're saying so it it's it's I I'm I'm trying to provide a path to get it done within six months the board the board feels that they want to give us that opportunity we would love to if if you don't feel that way based on the comment I'm not here to um argue with you on your feelings because I don't I don't I under they're valid okay so I'm not going to argue with you on those however I do think the path that we've discussed and the path that we've you know we reached out to Mr Simmons and Mr ke to talk about it to see if we could get it done um sooner rather than later I think the compromise was a fair one and like I said I won't be back if if it's if we have not vested our rights within that six month period I won't you won't see me here for an extension maybe for some other project but not not for an extension not for an extension on this so but but I I understand your what Your I I understand

your comments all right thank you Marissa you can call the rest of the board members please Michael leandi so in in the event your DOT permit um that's expired is not uh renewed or reissued what what's Plan B is there still a project we discussed it we discussed that um Mr keen and Mr Simmons asked the exact same question Mr Leoni that you're asking so what we discussed was getting what's called a comfort letter from do so what do will do is and our traffic engineer went through this um he basic what they will do is they'll issue you a letter that we intend to approve this application so that the building department and the engineering department have comfort that we are going to get the approval and that they will issue a permit once they calculate the bonds the fees and any of the technical items so we should know within the next 30 to 60 days if we should have that Comfort letter letter so if we don't get that we won't start construction until we get that so that you don't have the the concern or the Dilemma that you just brought up so we did discuss that issue great thanks and but in the event that you don't get that letter and that you don't get a so so I don't I I think that that based on our discussions with our professionals that seems unlik likely because that would be denying us access on the state uh Highway which they I don't know if they're able to do but let's go through your worst case scenario if that were to happen then that would be the that would be analogous to a material change to the site plan based on an outside agency determination so I'm sure you've heard this before as a board if we come here and get an approval if an applicant gets an approval and then the county or do imposes some design that materially alters the site plan you have to come back and amend your site plan so if that were to happen then we then Mr chairman we'd have to come back and uh and

represent the application if that if if what we think is going to happen which is they're going to issue the Comfort letter and then we'd be able to start then we should be okay great thanks sure Richard robacker um we have the 7-Eleven currently we also have one an additional 7-Eleven in town and I'm just a little confused as to why there are two I I don't know this wouldn't be adding another one this is just um I know it's going to revamp and re yeah expand the current right would be to to make yeah would make the the current one a lot nicer and also as add the um the fueling to it as well which is which is now you know part of their business model for the most part that's okay I don't have any questions at this yeah but I can't answer the business side questions for you it just bothers me okay I understand L tary just um one question can you this is one this is the fourth yep one so can you just re briefly explain what the reason why we we gave the third one what was the like what you did originally for when you just came today yeah I mean I think I think the chairman um was accurate and what he said um in some in uh in what he said before was the time the when I was here the last times um I indicated that um once Co hit the um the market a lot of these stores a lot of these retailers you know kind of put a pause on their expansion and their construction and that put a pause on it

for for a couple years um and that was through 2022 I believe or so um and then when we came back I also explained that there was the acquisition of Speedway so 7-Eleven and Speedway merged and they were trying to figure out how they were going to um integrate those two products um so that was the delay um and um I know that as the chairman indicated and he's correct that I repeated that twice I think on the second and third extension that's why coming into this one I knew that the board would you know take this one a little bit differently because you're only you know it's it's unusual to have another one and that's why I said look um if you're only going to work with us for six months I understand if we want to put strict conditions on on usually you don't have any conditions on an extension it's just you get your one year and you move on but if the board wants to impose conditions like we've talked about at this meeting um of us you know reporting back to your professionals on where we are and only giving us six months and having a condition that we don't come back if we don't um start construction then that's acceptable to us because we know that we're making you know one last plea for us to get to move to move forward with this project that I I know it's been a long time but we worked really hard with the board on I mean those were three or four very um comprehensive meetings we worked with the neighbors on the um the Landscaping buffer requirements and the the trees that were going to go there the fence that was going to go there the grading of the site the burm we worked diligently on the architecture with your planner at the time so there was a lot of hard work involved I mean so granted I know we're asking for something that's unusual but I feel like it would be a shame for for that you know that to give us at least six more months to try to make all that time and effort hopefully come to fruition

and if if if if we if we don't if we don't start in six months then shame on us and you know we understand the consequences of that I have no further questions Corey Stoner our board engineer would you like to make any comments before we take a vote on an extension of time please specifics it's fine um with six Monon extension um you you talking about your scheduling in state that's your scheduling to to get to the end of the six months to start constru that that that's correct construction Full Construction he was very specific about that when we talk when we talked about it on the phone yes months you're going to in line except you think you have the Comfort level from the correct I think what we would do is and I think we actually did do this we submitted our building permit application already for review quite some time ago so even that's been those construction drawings have even been done also probably go through the zoning part right because we would but we they just the review because under the administrative code you can submit for a pre-review before so so we actually have all of our CDs our Construction drawing is done also that's how close to the Finish Line we are on this um but yes everything the way you just explained it is exactly uh how we talked about it with Mr Simmons and Mr ke yeah

okay y constru we have to break ground to I mean I would say that under although I've had debates with colleagues over what vest your rights I don't think it's very clear I wish that's one of the things the legislature would would clarify but um I do think the conservative approach would be when I would always tell clients is breaking ground not just even demo but actually starting construction pursuant to your permit is what vest your rights and that's what we would have to do in that six months I don't know if Council wants to weigh in on that but that would be my that that would that that to be fair to the town and be um you know tell the applicant what I think the law is I would say you'd have to break ground in furtherance of the permit no because because and the the discussion I have this more of an esoteric discussion but you could do that without an approval we wouldn't need a s plan approval to demo the building so I think the purpose of the the land use law on this issue is to actually do something in furtherance of the approval that you got and not just things that you could do otherwise sure the exist yes yeah I don't I I I think they might try to keep it open maybe during the initial part of construction to the extent they could but it would be closed for the vast majority of the construction process all right thank you uh Corey any other questions or comments from the board members before I ask for a motion to approve the extension of time just just one on this this do

reapprovals approve it or extend it in 30 to 60 days it's called it would be it's called The Comfort letter as my traffic engineer explains it where the dot on there of letterhead will issue you a letter that they will issue a permit as part of the as they they've received your application they've reviewed it they will issue a permit it's just they have to finalize the bonding and some of the technical fees and so on and so forth but that that letter will indicate to us as well as the town that we will get that driveway um on the state highway and do you need that within 30 to 60 days in order to start construction by July we would need that by by July in order to do it by by that time I think we would need it by then in order to do it as soon as you get that letter right we would work we we would work in in concert with that we would pursue that letter but also make sure that all of our permits with the municipality are finalized as well yeah I'm just wondering what what's going to we would not start construction without that letter if that's what you're asking me okay so you need you need that letter and you're hoping to get a letter from this I think that's bureaucracy in 30 to 60 days but it's not but it's not the um it's not the full permit so our traffic engineer has indicated that we should be able to get that but um Corey correct me if I'm wrong but Mr Simmons wanted us to get that letter before issuing the zoning permit that you've been discussing resolution condition have address sounds like that you have but atast so that's the that's the key date getting that Comfort letter yeah but you're saying 30 to

you're saying 30 to 60 days but it may not be until July I I obviously can't control but but but but that's but that's to the question that Mr leandi asked us earlier if I don't have that by the time the extension's over then we're not going to start construction okay so that's why I think all the conditions that we've discussed are fair and you know if you won't see me back here if we don't start construction by the by that time and I would I would appreciate the board giving us one even though I know you don't have to I would appreciate the board giving us one last opportunity to to try this just one last question yes Mr chair so if that KKR or Bane capital or Circle K whomever comes into the picture they're all in negotiations now and buys out 711 or merges something the operations whatever how will that affect this project going forward I have no I I I can't give you an I have no idea Mr chairman I have no idea all all I can say is um I've pleaded the case I've we've really tried with our project team to work with your with your team here to try to you know get this on on board I don't know about any of those factors that that that might come into play those are out way above my pay grade all all the that's why in having this conversation with what's that Mr chairman I'm sorry I'm excuse I'm surprised your client didn't inform you on all of this in terms of these companies that are they've been authorized because I wouldn't be here if they weren't authorized to Mo to to move forward they they wouldn't have told me to come here and um they wouldn't have their professionals engaged have a full schedule ready to go be working with do and D if they were not engaged to move forward and if we don't start construction by that date that the board

if the board were to give it to us and also the maintenance issue if you want to make that a stipulation I I don't I that's a very reasonable um request um you know we you won't see me back here on that on this issue that's all I can say all right thank you Mr toal thank um the chair will entertain a motion to approve the extension of time six months with the following conditions Mike if you're so kind yeah Mr chairman I'll make a motion have the board attorney draft a resolution approving six-month extension of time for application number 6-19 for 711 at block 2011 six Lots 112 and 13 at 33 Pine Cone Lane and 164 woodport road with conditions that an outstanding approval schedule be furnished and some site cleanup and maintenance be performed at the vacant auto part store and adjacent parcel of Land Based on all testimony here tonight we could include what Cory stona said in terms of his comments to Mike except that at end them agree thank you do I have a second I'll second any discussion can I make an amendment to excuse me uh amendment I guess another condition you have another condition yeah if um there be no further extensions oh all right yeah well you could you could also put as a as a condition anything that I've represented before you as well you accept that Mike yes okay Marissa please call the rooll Jennifer Paha yes Michael jik Yes Richard Lupa yes Michael Leoni yes Richard robacker yes Lon teneri yes chairman Kenneth Lowry no but congratulations your extension's been approved without my yes vote I I appreciate I appreciate everybody's time

thank thank you very much everybody welcome thank an application 12-24 susus County Charter School tech for D variance Rel leave please come forward if you're so kind to speak directly and clearly clearly into the microphone since it's a requirement for the state and also for our board secretary to hear all the testimony thank you Mr chairperson I'm Richard Valente of the law firm of Morris Downing and shared in Newton here on the continued application of the Sussex charter school for technology uh when we last appeared uh there were a number of questions that were raised by the board and we're here tonight to hopefully address those questions as well as comments made by uh members of the audience um the the uh first I want to thank Marissa and the board members uh who were able to have seven make seven members eligible to vote on what is a d variance uh appreciate the time and effort that was involved in that and yes you know Mr Valen of course but for the public since it's a d variance you need five affirmative votes and if it's approved it'll be tied to the land and perpetuity the variance yes Mr chairman

we're aware thank you if I may uh take two minutes to summarize the application to date as well as describe the changes we've made to the application thank you the the Sussex charter school for technology is a public school uh that is a tuition-free public school it's called a school of choice because people are not required to attend the school uh but they are given the option to attend the school uh it it is available to members of uh residents of Sparta Township on a priority basis they have first priority to attend the school uh with resp the use itself the school itself excuse me is a permitted use in the zone and pursuant to state law it uh schools are inherently beneficial uses uh when it comes to a devarian application the the sign itself uh the devarian is created because of the sign because of its placement within one of your historical one of your historical districts um as you heard the testimony of our planner the uh sign improves the messaging by the school and therefore approves the effectiveness of the school uh the fact that messaging is improved is witnessed by the fact that within Sparta Township itself you have digital signs at rev Brown you have digital signs at the Sparta Middle School you have digital signs here at the municipal building uh there are digital signs at votek and there are also a v a digital sign at the ambulance building the the sign uh helps the school in several areas first with respect to emergency preparedness if for example there's a lockdown or or there is a gas leak or a fire at the school

the sign can make that announcement with respect to passerbys as well as families involved the sign can quickly communicate information uh of of events that the school is having and also importantly as we discussed as one of the conditions uh if the sign were to be permitted with that Sparta Township itself could use the sign uh for purposes of making announcements whether it be emergency announcements or Community event announcements but those would be the only two entities that would use the sign it's not a billboard it's not something that's intended for uh commercial benefit for the school um the sign could also direct uh people to the school's website which again enhances the messaging of the school the the sign itself would be located approximately one tenen of a mile uh to the hardest in Township border so the folks who are literally entering Sparta Township would have this opportunity to review the sign not only for school events but also for the township purposes as well uh since our last meeting we did make uh several changes uh to the sign uh I can review them with you um we presented to the to the board two options for the sign uh these options uh accomplish the following with respect to the sign it reduced the total uh SI dimensions of the sign originally the sign was proposed to be 9.33 feet high it has been reduced to 7 ft uh the total area of the sign has been reduced from 48 square ft to 27 Square ft the LED portion of the sign is now 3x6 so it's been reduced from 24 Square ft to 18 square ft uh the we presented two

options for the board to consider uh one uh with respect to the wording Sussex charter school for technology uh would be uh lit up and another would be simply on a uh wooden board that would be carved and each of those two options have been presented to the board as part of the update of the application the bottom of the sign uh which used to be a post of 3T in height has been changed now to be uh a 24 in High um Stone style base which is hopefully keeping better with the historical uh nature of of the community there are also conditions uh that the applicant is willing to impose for the sign and I'll review those conditions as well rather than go through the testimony uh the LED portion of the sign uh will be lit only during daylight hours except for emergency announcements Sparta Township will have the ability to place Community announcements and emergency announcements on the sign the sign will not be animated or flashing and messages on the sign will be static there will be no stroll strolling excuse me scrolling of messages uh nor videos on the sign the message on the on the sign will have a minimum duration of 5 to 8 seconds and will not fade out or fade in no more than one message will occur on the sign at any one time messages will be limited to message by the charter school or the township of Sparta and as I said no other third party will have the right to make announcements on the sign the sign brightness will be limited to 5,000 nits during daylight but will be controlled remotely and the brightness of the sign can be adjusted as needed during the course of the testimony last time we we showed to the board uh several exhibits regarding the historic issues with respect to the sign

as you may recall we produce uh photographs of neighboring homes and also the neighboring uh Warehouse uh for downing's furniture the the in fact the home across the street which is the yellow home across the street is not historical uh the the house set is uh two lots removed from us again with the photos we shown uh it is made totally of brick and it's not historical the the warehouse uh for downing's furniture also in the historic district is simply not it's a pole porn Warehouse it's not historical so we see that there is a number of features of of properties within the area that are not historical in nature uh there was also discussion last meeting about the the traffic impact of the sign and we have here this evening our traffic engineer and our traffic consultant who will testify with respect to his research regarding accidents in the area area and and also importantly the benefits of a digital sign with respect to the traffic concerns uh with that with the board's permission I'd like to introduce Mr Keller as our traffic consultant on behalf of the applicant please do Mr Keller can you please come forward yes would you like to swear him in if you're so kind sure can you remain standing yes raise your right hand this the testimony about to give matter be the truth the whole truth truth and nothing but the truth I do can you state your full name spell your last name for the record and provide your business address certainly Eric Keller k l l ER vice president with Bowman Consulting Group business address six Campus Drive sweet 302 porcion New Jersey um Mr Mr Valencia would you like to provide the the uh educational and um professional experience of Mr Keller please I will thank

you Mr Keller you describe for the board your educational background certainly a Bachelor of Science and civil engineering from rener poly Technic Institute uh I attended a master's program at the University of Maryland I've been a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey since 1987 uh I have testified before numerous uh boards throughout the state I've believe I've testified before the planning board in Sparta I not had the pleasure of being before this board um but I have testified before numerous other boards uh I also do represent a number of municipalities over the years um and also while my office is in parsipany I'm an 18year resident of Andover Township and a 35-year resident of Sussex County so I know the area pretty well your I driveth through your fine Community every every day getting trying to get to work down Route 15 and your license is current and in good standing yes it is does anyone have any questions from Mr Keller no questions from the board okay thank you Elise thank you Mr Keller please proceed thank you Mr chairman Mr Keller did you prepare a report dated November 8th 2024 I did and would you describe for the board the efforts you undertook in preparing that report and your conclusions in that report certainly um we've been working with the school for a couple of years on traffic and access uh concerns that the school had um and we became re-engaged uh when the school filed for this a sign application uh for their property on Route 94 um so our original Focus we collected traffic data uh number number of days

times a day uh of the school driveway to gather information on how much traffic is coming in in and out of the school that's on the first page of my report I won't go through all the days you can clearly see that for yourself um but we found is that um the driveway is fairly active um there's 174 trips in and out in the morning peak hour on average and in the afternoon during the school departure time not necessarily the peak hour of the highway uh there are 112 uh Vehicles what is a little bit more interesting is that um we also looked at automobile traffic as well as school bus and other large vehicle traffic in the morning peak hour that larger vehicle U traffic only accounts only accounts for 25% of the traffic but during the school departure it's almost 50% of the uh site generated traffic we also looked at traffic volumes along Route 94 that were published uh by the do um we only found two one in 2015 and one in the summer of 2018 while the summer counts were probably when the fair was going on and might be higher than it normal uh summertime traffic it's also not relevant to the school as school's not in session at that time so we used the September member counts um for the purposes of assessing what the uh operations of the school driveway would be and this is all by way of kind of background of the reasons for our justification for the sign the need for the sign and I'm going to get into

some a little bit more detailed stuff in a moment excuse me Mr Keller you submitted your report to the board secretary yes does anyone have the rep in front of them the was sent when I sent over I I received it you don't have a copy of it but the board the board members didn't get any they everything was sent to everybody wanted to sent the um the February 7th no it's November 8th of 202 it was sent by email in December to uh the board's professionals and to miss favaro does any board member have it from November 8 whatever I don't I don't have it with me but I remember seeing parts of it I don't remember any of it to be honest with you I know Mr stoner's office has it because he had it in his review memo oh yeah I know but the board members usually like to see that too Mr Kell yes I understand that Mr chairman yeah everything over and our vice Chairman's checking all the emails now if you to give us a minute or two it be a while certainly I'll take you a while keep going okay all right um I'll be a little bit more thorough since you're not we don't have it in front of us not looking at it so just to go back for a minute Mr chairman the counts that we that were done were Wednesday January 26 of 2022 uh from 6:45 to 7:45 which represents the arrival time for the school and from 2: to 300 p.m which is the departure time we also did counts on Monday January 31st of 2022 same time periods Tuesday Fe February 1st 22 again same time periods and Wednesday February 2nd 2022 same time periods so we have four days of count information which we then summarized and averaged which goes to

the uh traffic volumes I testified to previously um and that is also where we came up with the number of buses and larger vehicles that enter and exit the site as part of the overall traff traffic going to and from uh Route 94 and the school so we um as Traffic Engineers we use a software program called Highway capacity software that allows us to evaluate the operations of a signal or I'm sorry of an intersection there's no signal it's a stop sign controlled so when we do that analysis the analysis looks at the um oper operations of the side street because that's impeded you have to stop at a stop sign look in both directions and before you can proceed we also look at the operations of the left turn in from southbound 94 into the site because that has to wait for a gap in the Northbound flow of traffic on Route 94 that is what we measure um and it's based on average delay how much time a a vehicle would be expected to have to wait to make a movement so during the morning peak hour when we have higher volumes what we found is that um the site driveway itself leaving the site operates at level of service e uh with 40.1 seconds of average delay which is really a function of how much traffic is on Route 94 I don't need to tell any of you here that Route 94 is a busy road and I listen to parts of the testimony from the September meeting somebody asked a question about what's the speed limit it's 40 miles an hour um if you're doing 40 miles an hour on Route 94 you probably have somebody right on your

tail so that's what it's posted not saying that that's what people do and not that it's legal to be going faster than 40 levels of service are rated from a meaning the the least amount of delay to level of service f which is an excessive amount of delay level of service e for a side street or a driveway in this case to a major arterial is not uncommon even in Sussex County you're going to find you know points where it takes longer to get out onto a road which is especially that kind of a major road carrying traffic through csex County um during the after with the school departure time when the volumes on 94 are a little less what we found is that the site driveway the school driveway operates at level of service C uh with just under 23 seconds of average delay which is acceptable the left turns which are only waiting for gaps in the Northbound traffic uh both operate operates at level service a during both of the peak hours which means that there's very little delay very little queuing of vehicles waiting to to turn into the uh School driveway so those are all good levels of service for this particular location now the other thing that we did and and we wanted to assess because this is um an unsignalized location um is what is the crash history in this stretch of road so we filed an Oprah request with the Township police police department they were very prompt in their response and providing us with the data which is in the report which

unfortunately most of you don't have um and uh when you do get it um the uh personal information because they gave me the whole document I redacted you know people's names and things like that because I didn't think that was relevant it's not to me from analyzing it uh but that's where you look at it it's all blacked out what we found what the data that they provided this was we asked for traffic volume uh traffic volumes crash records from January 1st of 2021 to September 30th of 2024 so one two three almost four years worth of time um and in that 4-year period in total there were only 15 accidents within the stretch of 94 from the Hopkins Corner old Prospect School Road intersection that offset intersection to a point about 500 feet uh south of the school driveway so it's a fairly good stretch of road um 11 of those accidents occurred at the intersection of Hopkins corner and old Prospect School Road the uh only intersection the only accident that occurred at the school driveway U was a rear- end accident and reading through the police officer's summary it was the following driver wasn't paying attention and ran into the car in front of it um had nothing to do with the school driveway at all so from that data that we obtained from the police department there is no patter uh of accidents in this area related to

the school I'm not going to talk about the P the municipal intersection uh just up the road that's not part of this application but at the school itself there's nothing directly related to the operations of the school not to say that there aren't points at which accidents occur or near misses occur um but there is no pattern that we as Traffic Engineers look at and say oh we need to do something about that I will note that there are um standard yellow warning signs in each Direction saying that there's a school driveway 500 feet ahead I think the average driver um doesn't really understand how far 500 feet is when they're driving at 45 or maybe 50 mil an hour U but there are warning signs there is no um reduced speed for the school on the stretch of 94 like there are in many uh other school areas uh where they post that there is none for this um and I've driven this stretch of 94 many many times and in the I guess four years I've been working for the school I go by there and I'm like oh I school's coming up let I mean that sign that they have out there today is really really difficult to find and I'm looking for it um so I think the this particular sign is situated in a better location yes it requires a design waiver for its setback um to the RightWay um but from a traffic engineering perspective and I've tested

ified I'm not testifying as a planner tonight but I've testified numerous times as a planner for setback variances design waivers whatever in this case I think it's a design waiver um the placement of ass sign needs to be well there's standards that set where it should go in this particular case having it further off the road defeats the purpose um it doesn't provide the notice the point of of this sign as Mr Dunn testified to back in September is the purpose of planning is Safe Transportation routes this sign is intended to identif better identify the school plus provide public uh information announcements um but this is something that will provide a better marker as to here's the Sussex County charter school for technology here's where you enter and exit yes if you're a regular you pretty much know where it is but it is helpful for the general public uh the motoring public to see oh there's a school here maybe I should slow down maybe I should be a little bit more aware of things so I think there's a lot of benefits um to placing this sign in this location and providing the type of sign that they have with the digital sign um and as the testimony has been given is that the existing sign would be removed um so there would still only be one sign there are still some other design waivers which have been discussed but I think the sign size um is appropriate the other thing with um the size of the sign is that it goes to letter height having a sign um with insufficient letter height being able to

be placed on there defeats a purpose because then you're trying to um especially as you get older um it's harder to read um and having the size of the sign be able to accommodate larger letters makes it easier for people to read it and go oh I can see what that is and not slow down not create a traffic Hazard and that's what we're trying to do with this sun so I think that's everything happy to answer any questions the board we'll let you finish Mr V you know how we operate to finish your whole presentation then we'll go to our board engineer and then our board at the conclusion of your testimony thank you uh Eric one other question yeah uh would a d NJ doop excuse me NJ doot permit be required for this type of sign no this is not an off- premise sign um it is a sign serving the school which is there um I researched the actual code um which is njac 16 colon 41 C um and it's clear in section uh subsection 1.2 C that this sign does not require the issuance of a permit because it is an on premise sign and it is a public identification sign and it's further supported um in 16 col 41c -9.1 where uh it states that um a sign that meets the definition of an on premise sign shall not require the issuance of an outdoor advertising permit those type of dot permits are generally typically for what I'll call a billboard sign that's all the questions I had for

Eric thank you Mr Keller you have anyone else Mr Valente that uh only if only if there are uh questions regarding aspects of the sign we have Mr field here from KC signs which is the supplier of the sign uh he did not testify previously but if there are questions related to the when we get to the board members uh questions Cory would you like to give your report please I won't hold it against you Corey it's okay I've been called worse ch

first op have SS was found the rep expect call

all right right all right thank you Corey Marissa if you can call on the board members now and each board member please State what option you prefer option one or option two in regards to the sign go ahead Marissa Jennifer Paha uh option two Michael jic we could ask questions yes s questions to M yeah um so the question I have is um let me start off you're testifying that the sign will only be used for the school purposes as well as for the sparta I guess the good of Sparta like the uh community announcements uh emergency alerts Etc right that's correct okay um now we know that the variances go with the land um that condition would hold right if the school ever is a school leas leasing the land is that it uh owns two of the parcels where the main buildings are located okay the one parcel that has uh the used to be I think it was the furniture or closer to the street the blue building it currently leases that the where the sign is going to be it's going to be on leas land correct correct we have the owner's permission so you have the owner's permission so if for whatever reason um the lease is not renewed right the variance goes with the land um in the school well it could be related to the school but as long as we condition it related to school or some kind of Public Works then we're fine yeah okay what I

was trying to prevent is the uh the um you know the billboard situation like the advertisement okay we understand at that condition it will only be used for the school or the township right would run with the land okay perfect and that absolutely be a condition and is normal great perfect that and then option to no further questions thank you Mike Richard larua uh just two questions they're both related to the operations of the school uh do I understand it the sign will only be lit during daylight hours that is correct is there any at any time when there's a function at the school after dark because I I I tend to agree I drove by the during the day and during the night and it's very difficult seeing the driveway I agree with your comments there but uh I don't want to make it so restrictive if the if the function if the school has a function at night then I think a lighted part of the driveway entrance is good uh ma'am I'm sorry you have to come forward please she has previously testified at our last hearing I was going to say can she acknowledge that she remains under roath from the prior hearing and then just restate your name and your position Norine lazri superintendent of the Sussex charter school and you acknowledge you remain under oath from the prior hearing yes I acknowledge thank you um we have a couple dances at night I'd say probably four times a year were we're there at night we previously talked about limiting any nighttime used to emergency situations we do hire a Sparta police um officer to direct traffic when we have dances and when we have like maybe one other event at night because I I was always worried about the tra like it being dark out there yeah okay so then you you have no problem with it being dark the time being not if we're going to get approval problem well I guess the

question is would would you like to be able to with respect to those evening events be able to have the sign L yes but it's not a necessity correct there I'm sorry I hate to interrupt are there other activities Ian there sporting events or anything at the on the property or just these occasional dances we just have um we all of our events are really away because we don't have um regulation field we we have a few basketball games but they're right after school so our other um sporting events are always away okay and we have graduation up at sus six Tech so okay the and the only other thing is there's no concern about the definition of daylight hours uh when the school schools operation either dark winter mornings or dark even you know after school the sun goes down early is is the ordinance set up in terms of uh sunset time to the sunset or Sunrise because daylight hours is kind of vague at the these times of days for schools I wasn't here in September but what I heard on the testimony was sorry can you please speak a little closer everyone the microphones U was that it was 6:30 a.m. to 7: p.m. because M Mr soner had raised a point of you know the sign especially in the winter time you know it gets dark at 4:30 5:00 well that's the end of daylight but you know school could still something could still be going on if that is something that I

think that way it satisfies a specific time instead of well this month it's from you know it starts at this time it becomes an enforcement isue that was the previous testimony of I notes 6:30 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. okay I I didn't recall it that was the times was said okay that's good and the only other thing as far as the choice of the sign is if the sign is off does the the lighted version of the name of the school stay lit or it all goes off and it all goes on at the same time right can you come forward Mr field is a representative KC signs which is the enemy that will supply the sign he has not testified previously uh so we'll need to swear him in sure can you raise your right hand sir do you swear the testimony abouty given in this matter shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do can you state your full name spell your last name for the record and provide your business address Gregory Feld f l d business address is42 Conchester Highway Aston Pennsylvania 1 19014 and what what you I'm your a representative you're the vice president what's your position there I'm the permit expediter I handle all the permit applications and VAR thank you did you hear the question that was just asked by sorry sh you could use the other microphone there be a little easier for you done bending down since you're a little tall thank you that works better the question is is the the lighted portion of the name of the school is that Lit independently of the message board if If the message board goes out will the lighted portion still be lit or is it all one it's either all on or all off actually each the message board and the header cabinet would run off a different electrical line it's

just the way the the amps work and everything but it can be set up and generally when we set them up um there's a circuit and there's a breaker and one would go on off on with the other one and it would look better that way any a way they all work better that way so generally as kind of as a safety thing because as by a default if something goes wrong with the LED Message Board um there's a the safety switch that keeps it that just blacks it out because sometimes if if a board goes out in other units it can just start flashing and going crazy so we always make sure it's set that if there's something goes wrong with the electric that led board goes to Black and um that's the LED circuit the header cabinet is a different circuit different voltage but um generally yes we hook them up and they would go on when you switch them on they both go on at once when you switch them off they both go off at once and is the the light level of the name of the school different than the light level of the LED portion of it no we keep them so that they're they're consistent okay in that case I I may prefer the option with the lighted the lighted name of the school so at least we always have a an entrance designation so that's option one you're saying Rich yes Marissa you're keeping track to of the options here from the board members I'm keeping Talent thank you that's all my questions thank you the lighting explain what's the ligh of that oh option two option two is a version with a carved hdu high density urethane wood it looks like wood just like a wood carve top uh the there would be no Lighting on that

correct that's how it's proposed yes I believe they settled on what is both the non-lit and the illuminated would be the same design and what is shown in that drawing in front of you um yes all right thank you go ahead mirissa Michael leandi I um I don't have a preference um I tend to lean toward uh option one but don't necessarily have a preference and all my questions have been answered so I'm good thank you okay Richard robacker I have no questions but option two L tary I just have one question that I think I brought up in the original um hearing and that's about like the school zone and you mentioned the school driveway sign uh or school yeah driveway sign 500 feet um and then like 100 feet behind that's the 40 m per hour sign and then your neighbors down the street have the 30 m per hour school zone so I just wondered outside of this application is the School interested in entertaining trying to look forward to see what's feasible of in incorporating a school zone in that location I mean it's a process um with the do to go through that um I mean because you got already the half the sign right you got the driveway School driveway part so I in both directions there's 40 mph speed limit signs in that that lower speed limit is further to the north as you go into Hardon um you

know I don't I'm not sure that um you know I I leave it to the school if they want to I would prefer as many signs as we could saying there's a school so I would pursue that yes and I'm kind of like Mike where I don't have a real personal preference here but I I think um the point about potentially having after school activities and evening activities makes more sense to have a lit sign so option one for me got to the chairman you I know the tiebreaker chairman Kenneth lry option two and no no other questions at this I just like to thank Mr Valente your applicant professionals Mr chairman can I ask a question oh I only got to say an option I didn't realize that we were doing questions too um the um my question is I did notice with the school sign to I completely agree I mean I drove around there a lot I was there during morning rush hour I made about five or six trips back and forth and my personal experience is that it's kind of a harrowing little Gully right where you are I mean there's the BM is very high and you're youve no shoulder and the cars are typically going you know about 10 miles hour over the speed limit um was my experience and I pulled in and out of your pool plenty of times and it's it's dangerous I mean it's not a it's not a good site and and I actually had to go back the third time to consciously look for the school sign which is wedged in that lovely steep berm right there and it's kind of an older sign it's got that greenish yellow older tint to it it's not even I don't know what we see now what I have in front of the other public schools so just a couple comments is I would love

to see you guys have a blinking sign you know a sign that warns that the school during the during the morning and the afternoon when you're letting traffic out if you don't have somebody there I don't understand why you can't get a sign like Helen Morgan has it's you know it's petite it's not you know overwhelming but it blinks the speed limit and it warns you that the school is coming in or getting out I mean that seems to me like that should be there at a minimum because honestly it was pretty heroing um to pull in and out of there that's that's comment one and to me in a way that almost serves you better than having your school sign right there only because again I look at it and say you know Eric we were talking about the traffic but I mean in order for me to drive down that strip and keep up with traffic which is you know moving let's say between 45 and 50 m an hour and then for me to avert my eyes up on that hill to look at a sign where you would have it placed there it's the blue church right it's the light blue yeah it it just seems like that's dangerous too I can't imagine averting people's attention you know parents are pulling in oh there's that event what I'm trying to read that sign as I'm trying to slow down and as I'm trying I don't know I I just um I want you guys to get all the attention that you can possibly get but I just don't see how putting a sign in that that spot is is going to be safe I'm afraid people are going to get into an accident trying to see what the sign says I think that's you know and I drive by um the uh Florence Bird School on Newton's part of Road most days and they have a digital sign um and and that's why I talked about the size of the sign so that you can have um good size letters appropriate size letters

um the Mr Valente also talked about you know that the message would not change you know would be there five to8 seconds which is consistent with when you drive down the highway you see the digital uh Billboards now and that's the the uh scroll time that they have for those so it is static and it gives person as they're driving along the time to see that um so and and also the placement of the sign where it is which is a little closer to the RightWay than what the um ordinance permits is so that your eye is only moving a little bit which I mean your eyes should not be focused directly on what's in front of you it should vary to the sides especially in the area of a school driveway you want to see if there's somebody coming out so that you can anticipate if somebody is not paying attention and doesn't stop or you know to maybe slow down a little bit and and be aware of what is coming in from the sides there are other driveways along that stretch of 94 too um and and all of those things go to why we're placing the sign where we are the size of the sign and I think in general um you know we're not over signing the area which creates other issues I mean if the dot would permit that school ahead sign with a flashing and changing the speed limit which we would like school is willing to seek um but it wouldn't we wouldn't want it as a condition of any approval because as you heard from the last attorney dealing with do and I do on a regular basis is you know it's why I have so much gray hair and I'm not that

old um only kidding um but um they may not approve it and if that was sought it really would be in place of the existing Diamond sign that says School driveway and the plaque underneath it that says 500 ft the do is not going to allow you to keep that sign and then put in a reduced speed sign for the school so the school would be willing to seek that out from the do but there's no guar guarantees with with that department all right thank you Mr C you're welcome more questions thank you any other uh testimony Mr Valente or you completed no at this time so I'll open it now to the public if anyone in the public has any questions or comments regards of this application please come forward state your name and address and all that good stuff Jenny sure Jenny derk's tap into Sparta do you need me to swear in or anything I'm just going to ask a question yeah uh what color are the lights on the signs get our sign come up I have no idea on the pardon me on the digital sign it is a full color board so they can use any colors that they that they see fit I think generally it was going to stay within the susc charter color scheme but it's capable it is a full color board okay may I um make a statement without being do I or do I need to be sworn in okay for the test about to give this matter shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do can you state your full name spell your last name provide your business sure Jennifer Derek d r i c KS 27 Mount Pleasant Road the two schools

referenced in your testimony earlier the high school and the middle school are limited to single color the high school is white only they were the initial the first as far as I can recall the first led sign that was permitted in the township um and they were s strictly prohibited to have anything other than white the Middle School sign is red uh has red lettering only and is mounted on the school building itself so full color would be quite a departure from the two other schools that are mentioned here thank you would you like to respond to that please applicant deal how you change your color I know would you be open to I think the intent is to match the color of the buildings but you can speak to that the buildings have a color similar to what you see here in the options you intent to keep the background coloring of the sign the same to match the schools I honestly consider and then Jenny did you see the picture of the sign I didn't see the picture of the sign if you could show Jenny please thank you so what I was referring to when I asked about the color was the color of the lights the LED lights and are they going to be multicolored it is a full capable the board itself is capable of full color okay the intent for the school messages and would be the blue and the yellow scheme or one color at a time and that would also be like for the emergency uh fire ambulance any Township emergencies you can put a red or orange or Amber Amber Alert could go on there too so it is capable of adjusting to that and being able to provide for emergency messages different colors so for the case of both of the schools the background remains black at all times with the single color availability for

the messages themselves so the white for the high school red for the middle school thank you thank you Jenny anyone else please come forward state your name and address for the secretary Please Mr asking questions um I have a question and I possibly have a comment okay why don't we s you in can you raise your right hand s the testimony about given this matter shall be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do then can you state your full name spell your last name provide your address Adrien mirman 12 Brook Drive ER po how do you spell your last name I'm sorry m e e m a n thank you sir go ahead um I have a question about the public surface messages that you may display on the board um would those be maybe multi-sentence messages for example heavy snow expected tonight 8 seconds drive carefully 8 seconds Road slippery 8 seconds would that be a permitted use for your your your sign as a public service message that is something I could do um the board can display multiple lines anywhere from two to four so depending on the message or the emergency the amount of information that needs to be um conveyed to the public um it's very adaptable that way okay uh I was thinking that a multi- sentence message is often so distracting and useless where you see him on the road uh you look for a message on the road and it for 8 seconds it says drive carefully what was the underly message so um in terms of scrolling through a message I'm just

wondering if you have a dynamic billboard like that or message board like that if it might not defeat the purpose of alerting people to calm down slow down because they're focused on the next line of the message that tells them what the message was really about so I would like to advocate for more static board rather than a board that Scrolls through messages and provides an additional distraction um to uh to drive us in the area since we identify that area as a dangerous area but to to respond to that the condition that the school is willing is it's not scrolling having a a sign that changes every 8 seconds you drive through any construction zone and it will display for about 8 seconds caution construction ahead excuse yeah we have that in the conditions there right messages assigned will be static no messages will be scrolled and no videos Etc correct so the fact that there would be um heavy snow expected and you display that for 8 seconds then uh roads may be slippery that's the split that's not scrolling that's a rotational message um in 8 seconds um you know it seems oh well you know 8 seconds is plenty of time and on that roadway in 8 seconds you have probably traveled about 600 feet so you're only going to be able to read one of those messages as you go by but the point is you're going to see roads may be slippery and you'll think

okay well I know it's supposed to snow tonight so it's not like I mean if traffic is moving slowly because there's congestion due to a sto school bus up the road you may actually see two of the messages but most times you're only going to see one message so all right thank you can I just make sure so my public um service announcements are only going to be something that Sparta sends me and they want me to display I have no intention to warn anybody about slippery weather or snow or anything like that it's only going to be what you send me and that's exactly what I'm going to put on the sign all right thank you okay all right so I think that addresses my point that these additional messages whether you call it scrolling or turnover of distraction rather than a benefit to the town the town's residents Especially since one of the purposes of this message board is to enhance safety as opposed to the opposite is there anything that can be taken up in any of the conditions that the boards be static as opposed to Dynamic and it will be static all right uh we have a whole report from our engineer and the client the applicant was very kind to go through everything with a board engineer and all the different conditions that they agreed to and that's one that you just mentioned all right okay all right a second question is um will the C of scheme change change with the season at all will there be season appropriate colors for announcing the

school where you have say fall callers in the fall spring callers in the spring I'm not sure I understand the question sorry so if this is a board to announce the presence of the school will there be a seasonal theme a seasonal theme to it also will the board change from from um Spring to Fall to or summer to fall to winter I'm going to say no I don't think there was anything in testimony for that so one one one design and that is 365 a year well the work I mean they may be announcing different events at or different but the col scheme will be identical but I don't think there's an intent to change the color scheme based on the seasons of the year is that I think that's I I think the seasons of the year would be subjective again there was no testimony given on that topic at all so it's not identify Seasons part of the application so meaning it will be one call throughout the year that's what they just said all right thank you okay I don't one color at a time colors won't be tied to the seasons is the question I guess yes correct I'm I'm not going to try to I'm I'm not going to tie the colors to the season don't go there all right all right okay thank you sir anyone else in a public please come forward any other there please state your name and address to the secretary William willms you hear

the last hearing sir you want a spelling on that last you were at the last meeting I was indeed and you were you sworn in I don't know if you remained under you did SW me in okay you could just state your fullone name again for the record yeah it's uh William Willams and I'm at 389 North church thank you sir I'm there by the driveway uh I've I've got copies of the changes I I get them I still disagree and I tend to agree with you and I live right there it is a dangerous place for the sun I know a lot of the lighting and I think one of the questions I have for you sir is option one and two can we please clear up one and two on the upper we're talking about the upper lit part of the side this is on new proposal so option one option one is the upper end is lit this will be a internally lit white have has a white lens is that option one will have the upper lit yes right so everybody there gets what option one is and so two is the uh unlit sign can be handcarved usually some kind of relief maybe some gold inlay Lea stuff same stuff you see it Downing or you know the same as the existing sign that you see there I'd like to resubmit the pictures of the sign that's there I submitted these last time but with new board members I'd like to make sure they get to see what

that sign looks like and I have heard of traffic studies well we I think we received them at the last hearing I have 01 through I have two pictures there are two of them 01 and 02 we receiv received them at the last hearing sir is everybody get a copy of them everyone should have a copy okay for traffic that uh isn't so you know questionable there uh the one picture was uh somebody had asked what what the existing sign was I had a great shot of it does show the traffic accident the other one is the the exact same spot and here is the poor guy who tipped this car over on the side uh in attention put a sign up there and watch a few more of those happen that car flipped up on his side he he most likely wasn't paying attention s so excuse me sir if you're so kind to keep the comments to exactly what you want to say to the applicant and profession yeah I just I wanted to make sure all right that that we had the option one and two I mean if you're going to approve anything like this tonight I'm absolutely option two I don't need more lighting coming my way I think option two had the upper hand right Elise it does option two had the hand unlit upper sign I know sir you you were very concerned about lighting there at night there's plenty of lighting their uh ENT the entry driveway has uh two parking lot lamps they're lit every night every night now they're tied to the seasonal timer in three weeks the clock will change and you'll notice that as it's dark they'll be on they do come

on they don't come on until about 8 uh that's why you make may have been driving by at night thinking it's so dark there but uh at 7 and 7:30 and 6:30 but uh they're they're on they're on every night there's plenty of adequate lighting to pull in the driveway uh any more other lighting the LED lighting is probably not going to be too much of an issue bothering me but again I'll State this road is narrow you got one lane each Direction there are no shoulders there's no sidewalks and distraction in the area there are plenty of accidents there has been no fatalities though I do note the Hopkins Corner area uh there was no mention of the fatalities down there I'm sure the full police report which I do not have but living there I know what it is and uh the only one cited was a rear render into the back of a dump truck young kid not watching uh ran right into the back of him but this particular school bus accident which had occurred there was no mention of that or the car up ended it's still a pretty dangerous place to be I don't believe we should have a sign there and lighting we don't need any more lighting uh I was okay with the sidewalk being approved back in 2016 but this board you know failing to recognize the original site plan from 2009 where the parking lot lamps would

be turned off at 9:00 but you superseded that and now I have lights I don't need to put my bedroom lights on on a second floor because of it you know before any of these buildings were put in I asked that we have parking lot lights put off at night all right I'm I'm well aware and uh I know all of the nightly events through this the school season of course you need marking lot lights on that's not a problem quite used to it it's almost 15 years now so all right sir we your com thank you I will leave you alone thank you sir it's still not a good idea anyone else in the public have any comments or questions please come forward see no one else in the public has any comments or questions we'll go back to the board first of all say you're all completed no other yes Mr information also I want to thank you and your applicant and Professionals for what what you did in terms of revising the original application you came in here with really appreciate the changes that you made all of you right all right any other questions from the board members I have one more question I'll comment would it be possible to put a stipulation into the sign that when the Township's master plan comes out because there still is some discussion about you know multicolor backgrounds this and that that we're doing with the schools themselves we probably would Define that a little bit better in terms of brightness Etc and timing in the master plan if there if that it's funny to mention that um Jen I'm on the master plan subcommittee

that will be a topic that'll be coming up at the next meeting on the 6 so that would be appropriate for that conversation it's not appropriate for the application no I mean can we just put as a stipulation to them getting the sign that when the master plan comes out that they would have to adhere to whatever approving what they're proposing tonight I mean I I don't know with the master plan where that's going to go I mean I don't okay of this Bo all right thank you the chair entertain a motion approving application 12-24 susus County Charter School te or D variance but before the motion is made just for the public again this sign will be for the charter school only and the township of Sparta they'll be the only two organizations to post on this sign you ahead Mike okay Mr chairman I will make a motion to have the board attorney draft a resolution approving application number 12-24 for cus County Charter School block 1 15002 Lot 10 C1 at 383 385 North Church Road seeking a d variance for a new monument sign with LED features with conditions that uh option two for the unlit handcarved upper portion of the sign be utilized that the LED portion be lit only during daylight hours except when emergency announcements are required by either the charter school or the sporta township uh or when evening events are taking place for Public Safety purposes uh Sparta Township will have the ability to place community the announcements and emergency announcements on the sign as needed by the township the sign will not be animated or flashing messages will be static no scrolling messages or videos will be permitted 5 to 8 seconds minimum

duration and no fading in an out will occur no more than one message at a time will occur on the sign messages will be limited to um those that are required by the charter school or the township of sporta no third party will have the right to make any announcements on the sign sign brightness will be limited to 5,000 nits during daylight signs features can uh be controlled remotely and promptly so that light intensity can be adjusted as needed um an as built drawing will be provided uh adherence to all stipulations in Mr stoner's report and according to all plans specifications and testimony presented here tonight and at the prior hearing uh September of 24 might just want addendum for the confirming all approval permits from our Construction officials so amended thank you do we have a second second any discussion quick quick question on the definition of daylight operation is it is it in the record that it's from 6:30 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. I have in the record yes and then evening hours as needed for their minimal events Rich okay yeah Marissa please call the rooll Jennifer Paha no Michael Pacific yes Richard larua yes Michael Lei yes Richard roer yes Lena teneri yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes all congratulations your sign has been approved and again thank you for all the revisions and changes that you had made from the original application we appreciate it thank you very much you're welcome is um does the board want to take a five minute break on that you don't uh the the board will have a motion to take a five minute recess so moved all in

favor e e e

e e e e

e e call back to order Thor Anderson application 13-23 please come forward how are you guys okay good what's your name again sir good evening my name is David Gray I'm a lawyer at gray Law Group just before we begin I had just three issues I want to clarify for the board and also for the public going back to our December meeting do you remember when you asked Mr creson am I pronouncing that name correct uh pretty close creson yes and he had stated about over 10 Billboards being in spgh and that the sign your applicant was presenting would be smaller Etc just for the record I know you're aware aware of it that Billboards that you see in town or grandfathered in there's been no new Billboards approved for many years all the ones you see are grandfathered and I just wanted to state that for the record

if you don't mind no of course Mr chairman thank you and and I was curious when you had asked Mr cesion about the businesses the local businesses that were pulled and all of them were in agreement that the sign would be a benefit did you ever have a list of these businesses who they were contact information or what type of poll was it that these businesses said it would be a benefit to approve this sign uh with the Chairman's permission Mr crushion is here and perhaps would be better able to testify under oath to that as opposed to my just uh informing the board all right great and this the last one I know it was brought up that the ambulance building was advertising other businesses besides their ambulance building do you have any evidence of that since that's not permitted just the ambulance group is permitted to advertise ambulance function so I was just curious in the minutes that was testified to other businesses were advertising there do you have any evidence of that too or not again Mr chairman Mr crush is here and uh can testify to that and you know we all basically in town and see what's on the board so all right good we can we can go through that and then just for the public again this is a d variance five yes votes will be needed to approve it and if approved the variants will go to the land and perpetuity go ahead Mr Gray oh thank you Mr chairman more thing everybody's up to speed on this one everybody was here for the oh yes Glen do you want to confirm

for the public everyone is certified to vote Etc that's what yeah so did you get I got everybody okay okay and we're going to change the form or something so you don't have to worry about getting notaries and stuff but we'll take a look at that because I know that created an issue or two so if anybody else needed me to witness something I'm happy to but we're going to change that and make your life a little more pleasant as board members all right thank you Glenn thank you counselor Mr chairman and members of the board again my name is David Gray I'm a lawyer at gry Law Group and I represent Tor Anderson who's sitting here at the table with May and this is a continuation of our presentation uh from December 11th when the board heard pretty extensive testimony from Mr Anderson uh and I'm not going to rehash everything of course but just to very quickly summarize uh Mr Anderson's position as a family farmer and this is an application for his property uh on Route 15 uh Leighton Road it's 34 Leighton Lane but it's on Route 15 um by Tor Anderson's uh Farmstand and uh it's a uh there's a sign currently there uh there'll be some a little bit more testimony this evening about the current condition of the sign which needs some upkeep and needed repairs and this is an application to bring us a little bit into the future and modernize um but the the the proposed uh electronic multimedia board would advertise not just Mr Anderson's farm at this location but also for example his farm the new one on White Lake Road uh in the operation he has there um but as well as other local businesses and uh messages from uh the municipality of Sparta as

well uh Mi Mr Anderson testified about how it would help to get them through some lean winter months as we've had uh but it's important to keep his farm functional uh and open um and those were some of the reasons that Mr Anderson testified that uh he was making this application there was also pretty extensive testimony uh from Mr Anderson and from our planner uh Donna Holquist who is here this evening in case any questions or issues come up uh about how uh we were in conformance with all of Mr Simmons's points that and recommendations that he raised in his letter uh on this application from April 10 of 2024 and again just briefly that included limiting nighttime brightness levels uh for the on premise message center to3 foot candles above ambient light conditions at appropriate distance it included limiting the sign brightness to 5,000 knits uh during the daylight hours and 500 knits at night requiring automatic brightness control um uh such that uh it can be uh controlled automatically and remotely requiring the display to go dark if there were to be a malfunction uh requiring it to be a static sign so that there would not be any scrolling or animation and requiring the uh display to remain static for a minimum of 5 to 8 seconds with an instantaneous change in messaging or display and no fading in and out and requiring the signed controller to be fully adjustable so the light intensity can be adjusted as as needed and and again it would be a static display no video um display no moving

images when we had uh concluded on December 11th there were some questions about rendering some questions about what the sign would look like and we've come prepared to answer more of those questions and show you the renderings we have handouts printed in color that we'd like to hand out to the board and uh Mr creson is here who can uh really testify more knowledgeably about what the board and how the board would look and how it would be displayed but before I bring him up uh Mr Anderson it's his application and I defer of course to the chairman to see if there were any questions of Mr Anderson before Mr crushion would testify Mr Gray we'll wait until you're finished with the whole application and then we'll go to our Township uh uh engineer and then to the board for the questions great thank thank you Mr chairman so at this time I'm gon to ask Tor if you could just see in the back I'm going to ask George creson to come up uh he was sworn in last time uh he is a uh representative from the sign company and uh he can testify a little bit about the renderings uh of this sign uh the other Billboards that are in town and and uh give the board a little bit more insight in the look and feel of uh of this particular uh multi messaging uh Center so I didn't know if you wanted to swear him in again or keep him he's got longterm memory so I will remind you that you're still under oath and you still have to tell the truth okay and would you just state your name for the record Eng George Chon thank you counselor and uh Mr cron uh I know you have some handouts and could you briefly uh before handing those out remind the board uh how you're connected with the application and what it is you're going to be speaking to

this evening sure so um first of all thanks again for having us we appreciate it um I am the sign controller for most of the digital signs that you've seen in Sussex and Morris County in our area most notably the ones in Jefferson uh also over at yetter's Diner we operate those signs um we've been doing it for about 20 years now um all in all I control about a 100 digital signs in New Jersey whether they're in indoors or Outdoors um but I am particularly in tune with Sparta businesses because that's where most of my uh signs are so Mr grone if you're so kind to stick to the new testimony tonight and not rehash prior testimony because I would like to get this whole application into vote so Mr crushion uh you have some handouts this this evening can you briefly uh tell us what they show and then hand those up to the board sure so um we've documented all the Billboards in town we've also documented all the digital signs um even if it's an on- premise sign so just to show the plethora of different signs that we have in town although they are grandfathered in um we just wanted to show you that on a daily basis these signs exist and they don't really hinder anybody's life and with the Chairman's permission we'd like to approach and hand these uh out to the ah you could bring them to our Council I I'm just looking and there were no exhibits that we marked at the last hearing were there no these are new uh this is new testimony uh these are there any exhibits that we marked into at the last here I don't have any notes that we did Donna did we one planning exhibit one planning exhibit from you okay so we're going to mark this as A2 give

me two and yeah you can pass it in and I'm going to mark this since A2 for the record it's going to have a date on it of 226 and it's an exhibit consisting of one two [Music] three Mr Chris would you have any extra ones for maybe the public if they want to see any thank you so this is an exhibit of it looks like seven pages one two I got my shoes on so I'm having trouble count one two three so if you don't mind I'll just quick quickly walk you through easy uh this an exhibit of eight sheets uh and it's entitled North Jersey advertising LLC 07871 advertising display it's got a date on it of 2525 all yours I'll just quickly walk you through um you can obviously see that I've documented a bunch of the signs that we see every day in town here um the first page is are these are static Billboards so um many of these are lit um okay some are not some are second page is the these are current static Billboards that are existing in town every day we also have some bus shelters that are displaying advertisement third page okay moving right along these are digital on premise signs that we see in town of are ging signs some of them are similar to what we are hoping to do then we have a before and after sign what's currently

on the property and what we are hoping to reconstruct and here is a larger rendition of the sign we are hoping to construct after that is the current addition of the sign that is in place right now the final page is just a little layout of what our sign cabinets would look like is anybody wanted to see that you want to go through that more detail or do you want to now introduce this the page that I really want to focus on is the before and after page this page is what I really want to look at first um as you can see we are into the microphone Mr CH please we'll never pick up your conversation as you can see uh there are not any real notable differences in the sign um our current retaining wall is getting a little bit old and dilapidated we'd like to upgrade that with a nicer stone look to fit into the area um and the sign itself is really only going to be a couple inches bigger in each Direction and that's really based on uh the way the signs are manufact factured there's really you know it's really hard to get an exact size so this was as close as we could get um but in terms of where the sign is existing it is currently a permited DOT advertising sign and it has been forever for many many many years as you can see uh actually not in this rendition but if you look at the page of the current condition of the

sign you will see that there is a advertis on it for a septics company so this has always been a permited advertising sign um so that's not something new that we would be asking to add and um at this point in time very similar to the yers billboard that we did a couple years ago many years ago now at this point the sign was in dire need of a renovation so we feel like this times up similar to that and it is one of the first things you see when you when you pull in you know when you're driving down Route 15 and you're going through this beautiful town and we have this really nice opportunity to talk to people um and the sign's going to have to be resurrected one way or the other so we feel like the sign needs improvements we are not asking for a larger sign per se the sign is going to be in the same spot it is currently a permited advertising sign sign which there's really never been any problems with from the public displaying that sign um and it can be a whole lot more Dynamic this sure here's Mr ke I'd like to now uh Mr crushion would like to hold up another uh poster which I would submit uh to the board as exhibit A3 which uh is a large uh rendering of uh essentially the same Council as the the sheet in the uh in the in the place mats that you passed out it it is it's just pulled out and and blown up a bit to be larger okay that's

fine so A3 is what size is that 2 by3 is this a 2 by3 a 24x 36 poster is that that' be 2 by3 oh my my lawyer math puts it about 2 by3 I'm going with that I didn't know if you're signs guys are good okay all right so we'll mark that as A3 and you'll eventually leave that with our boss over here run through this quickly um The Columns that we would use are identical to the columns that are there right now in terms of size and color okay so those wouldn't change um you can see that there's some decorative top caps on there we would leave those on there as well just so the sign style doesn't change at all okay once again we talked about the size of the sign um based on the manufacturer it's only a couple inches off in each Direction okay and we see on the bottom a very much improved Stone facade to that wall okay with some nice Landscaping to match the farm and the way that it sits down in that Gul is is really nice because it's a very comfortable ey Lev thank you okay Mr cesion I see you have plugged a television in here I did and I'm I think you have some uh display you'd like to be able to show to the board that's on the TV so so last time last time we were in I think it was Michael asked me I think you were asking if there was a way to see the the brightness of the actual billboard but what I decided to try to do was recreate this entire thing for you to show you what it would look

like with live traffic going by and um to give you a better idea of how um this would fit into the landscape so I'm going to go ahead and plug this in for you Mr ke uh Mr crushon is about to show uh a uh rendering on digital media and we it's on a flash drive correct and we can leave the flash drive here and you will perhaps Mark that as exhibit A4 yes A4 will be a flash drive and um David how would you just summarize what's on there but this will be uh an animated rendition of the site Mr Chris when you take that microphone over there and take that over to the screen so we can have you recorded please you can take it out of there too if you want okay yeah so um I wouldn't call it animated this is a a live video of traffic Rolling by and we have integrated the sign that we want to build into the actual uh video so right so let's let's call A4 uh David just a flash drive live animated video all right all right um Mr chairman we do have it appears two members of the public so I don't know how uh how long is this how long is this going to take one minute okay my suggestion is that the public should be allowed to just come they can stand in front of me over here or something if they want to see it because the public want to come forward to view this I didn't see the Third stand right here you're

good right go ahead sir yep so that's signage from Mr Anderson's farm that first one this is a local business Cavalier who would love a directional off the highway that's thanking you for visiting our great town okay and that message can be modified any time any day here's another local business right down the road that would probably love to get some Highway exposure that's Salon D panach that's another sign talking about Mr Anderson's satellite Farm on White Lake Road and there's a Urgent Care that's less than a mile from there that has expressed interest in this and that's back to the ice cream ad so that would be a typical kind of rotation where we had a little bit of Sparta a little bit of Mr Anderson for his on- premise usage and a little bit of local businesses that would like to get some exposure thank you Mr CIO the chairman brought up some issues at the beginning of this presentation this evening uh questions about local Sparta businesses expressing interest in utilizing the sign can you please uh shed some light on your discussions with local businesses uh with some specificity with respect to how the sign is intended to be used uh for the benefit of local businesses sure so as I previously stated I'm very in tune with Sparta businesses and their marketing um there aren't really a lot of options

like this in terms of a digital billboard that businesses would like to use to take advantage of traffic going through their Town um yes yes I pictured many Billboards up there but the difference with those Billboards are is they are National Billboards okay and the first people that get to advertise on those billboards are National companies and if you look at those pictures a lot of it is State and New Jersey ads where they gobble up these Billboards because they have enormous budgets and they can do it um and a lot of it is National businesses that buy these Billboards by the thousand and meanwhile we have cocacola on our route 181 billboard through outfront and our local businesses are trying to get onto these Billboards and they can't the difference between Mr CIO not interrupt interrupt yep who are the businesses sure I off the top of my head I can name many people that I've spoke to in the past spoke to these businesses they I do their marketing currently so for instance I like to focus on that Corridor because these are going to be the businesses that are most interested although all SP of businesses are going to want to be on there but Hayden's Towing bubu burritos um industry we've worked with they use billboard space all over the place they work with them so when you approach them they'll have interest in advertising on this sign or I could to I've been doing this for a long time if this sign were to happen we would have we would have an A an influx of advertisers from Spartan New Jersey that would be dying to get onto this sign dying so yes um but let me just give you a couple more names um I told you bubo burrito has has interest in the billboard easier because I know

where the chairman is going you just showed a representation of eight or 10 different local businesses were any of those on the list every business that has been pictured has shown interest in working with us digitally somehow some way and every picture everyone that was on your first corre okay correct and another thing I'd like to point out is um I control Billboards that are north and south of here okay and a lot of people will ask me why do your Billboards have so many Sparta businesses on there so here we have Sparta businesses and they're advertising in Jefferson they're spending their ad dollars in Jefferson because there's nowhere to do it here and then if you go a little further north I have Sparta businesses that are advertising in Frankfurt because it's the next closest thing if we could connect connect those dots and give all these local businesses a chance to be on that coridor on that sign we will make a true difference in these people's lives we really will marketing as a lot of people in here know marketing is is a great thing but sometimes it can be a little difficult to sustain the reason we are different is we are local we work with local businesses I really can't name any national company that we work with everything we do is local to our signs this sign would be a big time hit for everybody for the schools who we work with in Jefferson the Jefferson Township Schools and I reference them because they're the next closest thing but when they need bus drivers they call me when they when the student of the month hits they call me they call me for anything public that they need you know even if it's just a carnival or a fundraiser um it's really a great way to tie the town together and I know you've heard it all before I know

every person has said the same Spiel but we see it happening every day and I'll go back to the first thing I said last time and I'm sorry for back dating but we help sick kids we help with school fundraisers we we we really help raise awareness and it goes way past business marketing um and I also want to address the second thing you said about the fire about the ambulance station advertising other businesses I would like to clarify that because maybe I said it wrong what I meant to say was the events that they're marketing are their events but sometimes they're offsite so they will say things like photography club and it will be at a different site so I do stand corrected for the record thank you I I I do stand corrected because as I was studying that sign that is not true all of their all of their content is for theirselves but sometimes it appears to be offsite so I apologize for that clarifying that appreciate it oh just before we you have questions let's let them finish I'm sorry I did my little Spiel before we got to the whole board but let them all finish the presentation and then we can okay open it to Corey and then to us rich a little L of process okay okay Mr chairman I think at this time we're concluded uh with respect to testimony uh and of course we'd like to incorporate the December 11 testimony into this presentation thank you sir you're welcome so Cory I'll open it to you for your report please right Cory could you speak louder too into that because I don't know if Marissa will be picking you up thank you

the adver sign was not own so Vari D had comment about the I'm not sure original package orl itself will so so I don't have the exact height but it will be identical to what is there right now so whatever the height is there right now it will match the width the width of the stone will be less to bring us away from the RightWay a little bit because right as it stands right now um the flower bed around the bottom with the retaining wall is is way too big will still be no closer 3.5 ft correct and here's that the existing base is about additional 2 ft you add that to the 6.2 Fe for the sign still much lower than the that's there's a bunch of conditions

there the existing two sided can you explain about sign twoed it will be details um these signs can be accessed for a service from the front or the back um but if you see on my sign outline here I do say that it's a two-sided I'm not sure two-sided LED sign um it'll be a front service sign sign so we could work we could work on it from the front hopefully we won't have to work on it right so existing pered yes say pered doesn't me requ assum existing the will be

requ right thank you thank you Corey before we get to the board Mr gr does Mr Anderson have any testimony he wants to give tonight I I think Mr chairman he would rest on the testimony that he had already provided it was pretty in-depth and detailed went through his history of the property his work history how he operates the farms and uh you know what this what this application really means to him and his family farm okay but I'll ask him real quick if there's anything else he'd like to add I'm a man of very few words all right the farmer uh submits to the discretion of the board at this thank you Marissa you can call the board members please for their questions and comments Jennifer Paha no questions Michael jic yeah I just wanted some clarity in some um I think two two items one um what is the percentage of advertisement for outside businesses versus uh Anderson Farms it's generally an eight person rotation um so Anderson will always be on there okay within his space he can advertise as many things as he wants okay so to answer your question um it's going to be 1 18 Anderson the other eighth will be Sparta okay so you have two of the two of the spots taken up and the rest will be be advertisements hopefully and is his eighth of time any different from everybody else's or is all equal no there there is a state mandated duration of advertisement which is eight seconds he asked a different question he was really he asked the right question it's going to be eight seconds for Anderson eight seconds for Sparta and

then the remaining six will each get eight seconds correct yeah and then one other item that wasn't clear was I know mentioned that there's going to need to be the outdoor DOT permit for advertisement right you mentioned that but then there was some testimony saying that they already have it does that transfer do they not have it now currently how's that so there so there's currently was it a permit for a static billboard we were approved for a double-sided digital permit from the state of New Jersey I it was approved right approv yeah we have it oh okay I believe it's in our in our original application agrees with what's been presented to the board correct have they act they actually approved us for a much larger sign but that we don't need it regua yeah I just to clarifications one um is your application uh watching the uh video of the the last hearing I got the impression that you were going to give preferential consideration to sparter businesses but I the the impression I'm getting tonight is that you're giving exclusive uh preference to Spotter and it will only be spotter businesses advertised on this sign like I I have no problem if a sign says even like ocean States in spart I mean in this area of the of the road probably 80% of the people that drive past this sign don't live in Sparta and it's it's a benefit to the businesses in Sparta especially in the township Center or even like the uh Commerce Park off of uh White Lake Road on the other side of 15 there that they can advertise but if if if your

preference if your sign is going to be exclusive to those businesses in Sparta I don't I don't care if CVS put a sign up and said CVS spot at New Jersey or PNC Bank or Liquor Factory or any of them but just the only people who would be given usage of this sign as businesses in Sparta Township I don't remember saying that no no at the last my impression from the last hearing that would' be given preferential choice not exclusive correct but not ex so so the way the way this will probably hash out okay is we will have people from all over the place that want to be on this sign it's going to be popular um it is a Spart a sign we will give the spared businesses the first chance to be on there what does that mean on every sign I've ever managed anywhere from here to Belleville there's always Extra Spaces always even on this sign there will be Extra Spaces it's just how marketing is um there will be no problem getting all of our Sparta businesses on the sign no problem at all my concern is that you're asking for a variance and it's a d variance and you have to you have to provide both the positive aspects of it and the negative aspects of it and I think it goes a long way to your case if you if you're able to say that this is exclusively for spot of Township businesses because then the sign almost becomes a chamber of commerce sign and to me that's favorable okay uh but if you say that anybody can advertise on it then it becomes a question of the money and uh who who has it and uh who wants to advertise and as I say if CVS wants to advertise on this sign I don't have a problem if they say CVS sparter because people driving on Route 15 don't necessarily know there's a CVS in Spart a Township okay but

that's a Spart a business that can use it or one of the other local businesses too uh yeah had testimony from uh an excavator I'm sorry Recycling business off of uh houses Corner Road who said he wanted advertise in it and same with the the Commerce Park on on White Lake Road the uh the B gymnasiums and the businesses in there they can benefit from this sign people again the 80% of the people driving on this road who don't want in Sparta can see what's in Sparta and it's it's so becomes a that becomes a benefit to your application but if if it's not exclusive then you don't have that benefit to the township so I which which way are you which way are you proposing I'm asking you I'm asking the applicant I'm asking you the attorney and the applicant what what are you proposing is it exclusive for sparter businesses or is it preferential for SP sure what I'm what I'm proposing is preferential okay and the reason for that is there will be some businesses that are on the Lafayette Sparta line okay we would never turn those people away okay as if as long as there was a reasonable amount of space and based on what I know there will always be space on this sign so everybody will be taken care of everybody it's just the way the signs go I I wish they were so busy that I could say to you that you know it's not we're going to have space for everybody so Sparta businesses will have the very first opportunity to be on this sign if there are many extra empty spaces we will take in our neighbors um but Sparta will businesses will have the first chance to be on that sign in their own Township on their Road and I see Mr Anderson uh would like to also respond to Mr lar rufus's comment uh Tor why don't you come forward speak to the mic the microphone Mr Anderson can I make a

comment on that um what if we said it was all local businesses that were in the the general vicinity um I mean local towns in Sussex County um and kept it so we're supporting local not these people that want to pay a lot of money to be on there but they're not local and they're not supporting our our townships um with that it doesn't you want you want make the benefit it doesn't give the benefit to the township for variance I know what you're I know again as I say it almost becomes a chamber of commerce sign which is a benefit a definite benefit to the township and the local businesses I agree with you yeah yeah all right thank you Mr Anderson thank you Mr CR I haven't answered to my question I think they gave the answer Rich spots are there ail I don't know is that the question well is it a thousand is it 15,000 I have no idea how many spots are that's good question how many spots are there in a Phill to to satisfy no no it's not eight you're not gonna you're not going to run the same eight over 8 time 8 seconds that's 64 so it's just eight I I assume that there are 100 easily because you'll have different Cycles you know right and just a note for everyone Glenn everyone on the board the public we have 20 minutes to adjournment because I adjourn at 10m sharp I hate to carried us to the next meeting keep that all in mind to answer your question quickly in this situation there would be 16 available spots if we felt like increasing that we could but we won't need to we'll have two digital sides we'll have plenty of room for Sparta first anybody else that follows after that would' love to have them but Sparta first George Let's strictly Sparta you got to be in Sparta okay

we're going to support Sparta Township it's keeps me in business and we want to help all the other businesses in so only for Sparta okay thank you MERS thank you Marissa the next board member please Michael leandi I am good thank you Richard racker um I have a couple of questions but they're not directly related to the sign itself they deal with the testimony back on December 11th uh I believe the planner gave it and I'd like to hold my questions until the planner gives their testimony um Mr vacker the the planner testified on December 11 she is here to answer any questions I was not planning on eliciting more and additional testimony from her but she is here to answer questions of the board that I just wanted to make get that clarified it I'm not a very bright person no please we're we're all in it together and she's here and I would suggest that the chairman suggest her if I remember her testimony correctly she said there were approximately 28,000 cars and I don't remember the time frame please come up forward the microphone and give your name and address again you're still on the road Donna Holquist uh CEO uh preferred Planning Group monville New Jersey okay yes to respond to you um the testimony was from NJ doot volumes uh from

2019 and they're two-way volumes and it is daily volume oh it's the daily yes and the number the exact number was 28,896 Vehicles all right um I live not too far from Mr Anderson's farm and Farm Stand um and I've noticed over the years that the traffic volume has increased considerably on Route 15 um and I've also noticed that there can be some difficult times in ESS and entering your uh Farmstand area um mik how does this signage address those issues as a lawyer sometimes I restate a question from my own head and if I'm correct in understanding you're asking how does the sign impact people getting in and out of the farm stand at all the traffic can be a bit difficult to navigate going into the uh if you especially if you need to go into the opposite direction sure uh I I guess I can ask uh either the planner miss holquest or Mr Anderson whether or not they believe this proposed sign would affect traffic coming in or out of the site if at all or even his home Quest would be fine

right so uh the way the sign is positioned um it is located in a place that it will be within the field of vision and it's sized appropriately for the 50 m hour speed limit um somebody would see this sign from I would estimate about 400 ft away uh it would it would come into view and they would have about six seconds to read the if they were traveling at the speed limit so I think it will enhance safety by being more recognizable and easier to read than the existing sign if that responds to your concern it's a it is a response that I will accept yes um rich just keep uh mindful of the time if you can speed it up and I have one other quick question um it's not for you uh particularly at least I don't think so um there's been a sign on your Mr Anderson on your property for as long as I have been a resident in the township uh advertising North Jersey septic and Excavating is that sign still there right now okay what happens to that sign North Jersey septic is my neighbor I I understand that so we it was there when I bought the place and I like to have good neighbors so we always let him keep it there when we change it he's going to have an opportunity to purchase space on the sign so um oh okay all right that okay I'm good for now okay

thank thank you L tary I just have one question so kind of on the lines of what we were just speaking about with the current sign um when you're heading Northbound it says far Market Anderson far nj.com um is there a bit of a concern now that from having over because you're not going to really see it when you're heading Southbound on the other side of traffic at times with you know the the road is there concern that we you know new residents and going forward in the future that the actual marketing of this location itself is going to be um put behind and and clearly seven out of eight times marketing something else has that been a thought process at all or just a a concern and again just to kind of restate the question do you think it would cause confusion to people if this proposed sign was approved uh in in what is the Anderson Farmer Market right there would that would there be any confusion um I guess to speak to that I would ask Mr Anderson perhaps to just address that do you think it would be confusing to people driving up if they if there was an advertisement for a local business you know let's say uh it's uh the green 973 with indoor golf well they think that you're Farmers Market is that location you're the marketing expert so I maybe should let you answer this one you might have a better answer than the way I would answer that is Mr Anderson ER has on premise signs okay at his entrance so he has those already this has been an advertising billboard since the beginning of time all right thank you that's all my questions thank you Landon I'll now you have any other closing testimony Mr Gray are you finished no we're finished Mr chairman thank you very much for your time I do

ask that the December 11th uh pretty comprehensive test testimony be considered by the board as well thank you I'll now open it to the public if anyone in the public has any comments or questions please come forward M okay than Jenny Derek's tap into Sparta I just have a quick question are you going to um accept that election ads campaign ads anything reasonable and respectful all right thank you Jenny sir please give your name and address to the board secretary yes Tom Schoonmaker 66 Chey anre Sparta I've been here for 35 years have two several businesses in town we have uh the recycling business on houses Corner Road and we would really really jump on this sign we have another business that I'd also put on the sign so be counting tour and Counting Sparta and Counting two of me that's already four um and you know I I I just think that the thing is going to be fabulous for the town and the local businesses I really do I think we need to to show you know where we're at with all the businesses all right thank you sir thank you you're welcome right no one else in the public it's um please come forward sir uh be mindful of the time limit too that we have my question your name and address again thank you Adrian M 12 brr I'm looking at the exhibit that was presented to us and on this page I see the existing sign for the farm market Anderson Farm New Jersey and then the new billboard that we saw on your video display the in terms of safety driving down that road at 50

miles an hour the planner mentioned that a rapidly turnover messages will improve safety I would disagree with that I would say if you're looking for a farm market and it's a farm market and you see that sign and you have time to take that in you also have time to slow down and make the turn safely uh we not 15 has become increasingly unsafe with increasing traffic uh accidents week after week and a sign that only has an 8C turnover until the next message which has no thematic relationship to the previous one it can be this it can be that it can be this it can be that how is that going to improve safety the intention span the focus of the driver on the safety on that road if they're looking for Anderson Farms so I would say that the constantly rotating message does not improve safety on Route 15 a completely static sign beautifully done why not going towards the farm would definitely be a safe option a rotating I mean I I looked at the at the video that you showed us and I just had to hold on to the desk because it makes you dizzy changes constantly constantly constantly um a completely static sign is beautiful it's in keeping with also an agricultural character of the of the business I believe this is agriculturally zoned and when I look at a constantly changing message I wonder what's the relationship between an agricultural use and that kind of

billboard that adverti even if it advertises local businesses it could advertise for the Ed car salesman you know no cash no credit no problem 10 mils up ahead fast 8 use cars how is that agricultural now and Sir if you want to keep mind of the time because again we adjourn at 10 p.m. sharp yeah okay so if you can speed it up I appreciate it we'll slow the clock down um the um the other thing is about the um this sign being uh potentially on and illuminated day and night now we had a previous application for the school where it was only daytime this one also is illuminated at night now I know that across the the road you have Primrose Lane is a residential area they enjoy the dark skies at night but now we have every 8 second a new color scheme a new message and even though the light intensity is lower your night vision ad adjust to that lower light also you're still going to see see it you lose your dark sky um for which part is known for which people you know who live on primr Lane just enjoy that and that will be taken away from them last thing is that the new sign I see the construction detail here it is you know anchored in the ground it sits on two uh steel beams ey beams and I don't see any kind of ornamentation around the billboard itself it looks like two poles and a Hightech display on either side

and I don't see how that is really in character with Sparta as this beautiful town as you have called Sparta you know on a regular you know uh basis in your testimony um I would like to see much more um detail on what that future sign is going to look like because as I see it now it is a large TV screen if you will on two steel poles um I think that before we go to any vote we need to know what this is going to look like um this is is this agricultural maybe but is this our view of an agricultural rural community no I think it's a step away from it this is a step away from it and so uh I have concerns about both the kind of sign that it is and also the execution of the sign um as well as the living standards of the people who live on Prim rosan and fur further up 15 who will be driving by this day and night also thank you thank you again sir I just have one comment before we take a motion to vote on its application I remember Miss Anderson came in for the first hearing and he was honest enough to say the only reason he was here for this St variant was solely because of financial hardship that's in the minutes I feel for his plight on the financial side but I don't ever remember this boort I don't know about these members because I've been here the longest approving a d variant solely on a financial hardship plus this will be the first type of

sign if approved in sparter that type of advertising and everything you spoke about Mr gony in the testimony so I just want to make it clear for the record sounds good all the businesses in spart will be advertising it all the businesses outside of spart will be advertising it no oh or not but so the other business is Rich M and approving a d variance solely on a financial hardship has never been done that I know on this board usually there's other mitigating factors besides of financial hardship but Mr Anderson was kind and honest to say that's the only reason he was here financial difficulty with his farm and this would help him with all the money that would be brought in from the advertising so I just want to state that for the record the financial hardship is not the sole reason to approve a d variance any other comments from this board before we take a motion to vote on the application Marissa please call the role excuse me I think I had to close the hearing to the public there was no one else in the public that wanted to come forward Tom Schoonmaker again I I don't know if I necessarily agree with that chairman in all due respect okay um I don't think that's the sole reason that he's doing it I think he's also doing it for people like myself well that I hate to disagree but that was the original statement when he came in here which I understood and feel for him he said it was a financial hardship that he needed to sign now after the fact of having other businesses like you say to advertiseing that's going to be

promoting money coming in to help him correct again legally for variances I've never seen it done that's all I'm St well I I wouldn't put so much emphasis on that okay because this is just one small facet of his of his business this guy's busy 247 you know doing everything to get ready now and get all supplies and get ready for the season and you know everybody goes there I don't mind that little bit of traffic that talked about to go and get the tomatoes that he's got you know what I'm saying it's just I I think it's I think you really got to think about what you're saying here I think you know he's got a special situation special situation sir but for a financial hardship only in terms of the legal law of variances being approved or denied a d variance a use variance the criteria is very high to approve something like that and financial hardships are never considered well I I don't stating for the record I don't I hear you but I don't know if that if we roll back through if that emphasis was put you know when he made his testimony if that was really the emphasis that was you know meant to be said by you okay well he was honest enough when he came in here the first he's very honest he's a very honest guy he's a very honest guy but I don't think that that situation should blow his application I think that's crazy I think it's got more to do with the people in the area to advert I for them like myself who who I don't people don't even know where I am I need I need somebody to say yeah here go that way to go to my business right you know I I think it's got way more of that type of thing going for it than than the money this guy he's got several things that he does to to earn money for his family this is not the only thing he does no I know you ought to give him the opportunity to to to retract what he said and and and think about it and give you a piece of testimony that you can work with and do this and I'm all for approving it and I

appreciate you taking your time everybody to I don't know how the rest of the board is going to vote us but whatever that's their opinion but nonetheless we appreciate you all taking your time you know you could be home watching TV thank you for understand well we would ask that uh the board consider all the testimony provided by all by the applicant not just that one statement which was an honest statement but he provided a lot of testimony as did the other uh uh the applicants experts uh as well so than thank you very much you're welcome uh the board will entertain a motion approving the application okay Mr chairman I'll make a motion have the board attorney draft a resolution approving application uh number 13-23 for tour Anderson block 17002 Lot 2 at 34 Lon Lane seeking D variant for an upgraded Monument sign with LED features with conditions that uh light levels can be adjusted as needed if requested by the township as uh testified to during the last hearing uh asilt plans uh prepared by a licensed surveyor to ensure we avoid the dot right away advertising be limited to Sparta businesses and all other stipulations laid out in Mr Simmons's report uh according to all plans specs and testimony and Exhibits provided do I have a second second any final discussion uh one one comment that was brought up should dis also display political signs and that type of thing I think this should be exclusive to a business a commercial uh advertising and not allowed to have any other type of political signs or campaign signs or social justice signs or anything and I think that goes to the benefit of the township as as being the equivalent of a a uh Chamber of Commerce type of uh board the condition says sport of

businesses SP of businesses yes yes accept that Amendment Mike I I do are are you guys good all right and who gave the second I did Marissa call the rooll please Jennifer Paha no Michael jovic no Richard larua yes Michael Leoni yes Richard racker no Lana teneri yes chairman Kenneth Larry no what was the final vote Marissa uh three yeses and four NOS right the application's been denied since you need five yes votes to approve it thank you Mr chairman you're welcome anyone in the public have any comments on issues not on the agenda tonight if not close to to public and the meeting will adjourn do I have a motion motion second please second second all right thank you everyone