Planning Board Meetings - Regular Meeting

Please note that adequate public notice of this meeting was given in accordance with the Open Public Meetings Act. No new business to be conducted after 9.30 p.m. and the meeting will end at 10. Let us begin with a salute to our flag.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Ray, would you please call the roll? Christine Quinn. Here. Mike Wallace.

Here.

Deputy Mayor Mike Sylvester.

Here.

Ron Day.

Here.

Christine Dunbar. Here. Joan Furman. Here. Ernie Ragsack.

Here.

Vice Chairwoman Jeanette Burke. Here. Chairwoman Celeste Luciano. Here. Brian Zimmerman. Here. Birgit Bogler. Here.

So apologies to the public for us starting so late. We're having a few technical difficulties with our presentation. That having been said, we are going to be doing things. Well, actually, we're doing things a little bit in order because the minutes are first on the agenda. So I will bring it to the board for any comments or questions on the minutes related to June 17th, 2026. Okay, seeing none, may I have a motion and a second to approve these minutes? I'll make a motion to approve.

I'll second.

And we need a roll call vote, please.

Christine Quinn.

Yes.

Mike Wallace.

Yes.

Deputy Mayor Mike Sylvester. Yes. Ron Day. Yes. Christine Dunbar. Yes. Joan Furman. Yes. Ernie Rackstead.

Yes.

Vice Chairwoman Jeanette Burt. Yes. Chairwoman Celeste Luciano. Yes. Brian Zimmerman. Birgit Bogler. Brian.

They're minutes, so it's it's administrative so you're okay Now we will move on to meeting minutes for July 15th 2026 Any comments or questions from the board Okay hearing none may I have a motion and a second for approval for these minutes I I'll make a motion that we approve a second.

Call please Christine Quinn. Yes. Mike Wallace. Yes. Deputy Mayor Mike Sylvester. Yes. Yes. Christine Dunbar. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Brian Zimmerman. Yes. Okay. All sets of minutes having been approved.

We are going, we do not have any resolutions. We are going to hold for the moment for the public hearings, which is the community facilities element and the recycling element pending these technical difficulties. Executive session will be moved to the end of this meeting. So we're going to move forward with updates. Deputy Mayor Sylvester, Town Council, please.

No updates is pride none.

Okay. No updates, no updates. Okay. Updates for subcommittees. Uh, we do have minutes for minor site plan subcommittee. We, to date have 28 applications that have come through minor site plan out of those. We only have 1 that's pending. 2 of those applications were withdrawn by the applicant. 1 of them was denied. The rest were approved. So that is the update for minor site plan, and we anticipate that last application to be reviewed and resolved within the next few days. Master plan. Subcommittee we have had, uh, we had our last meeting. on monday monday monday apologies we've had so many no we've had so many um we had our last meeting on monday where uh the subcommittee did um Discussed the goals and objectives we went through the first goal for the overarching document and the objectives relative to that We seem to be in agreement that that the objectives that have been put together are reasonably cohesive Potentially subject to change as other elements, you know come into light We are going to be moving forward with SUBSEQUENT MEETINGS, ONE SCHEDULED FOR THE 10TH OF THIS MONTH AND ONE SCHEDULED FOR THE 26TH OF THIS MONTH. ORIGINALLY THE MEETING ON THE 10TH WAS INTENDED TO REVIEW THE SUBMISSION THAT WAS MADE FROM THE PLANNING BOARD TO OR THE TOWNSHIP TO THE HIGHLANDS FOR PURPOSES OF THE GRANT AND THAT WAS THE ASSESSMENT TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT IT WOULD BE REASONABLE FOR US TO OPT INTO THE master plan um but the that the intent of that was that the presentation of that was supposed to be scheduled for the 19th however the liaison to the council to the the highlands council is not available on the 19th so that's going to get pushed back to september 2nd um we're hoping that that's going to be a joint meeting between the town council for sparta and the planning board for the purposes of that presentation. That having been said, the agenda for the next master plan subcommittee meeting on Monday has not quite yet been solidified because we're not exactly sure how many more elements of the master plan are ready for Review and consumption, but should that not be the case that will continue with goals and objectives and continue that discussion on the 10th. Um, with the intention of the Highland submission to be reviewed on at our meeting on the 26th. Um, that having been said, that's everything at this point for master plan subcommittee. We are also supposed to be scheduling out our meetings for September. Um, that schedule will come out within the next few days. So we will move forward to other board business.

Yes, uh, we had discussed informally the, uh. Lake Mohawk historic district ordinance, and under the other board business I did, I did provide to the board a proposed ordinance that was given by Ms Watson and Mr Gil's Steven. I think they're here. Are they? Yes.

Yes.

Uh, if you mind coming up real quick, we'll get get you in and out. Uh. If they could just explain, this is an ordinance that they had provided and I appreciate it. I know that Christine Quinn pointed out a couple quick things in here, but if they could just bring us up to date. This is the Lake Mohawk. Tell us about the ordinance that you gave to me. Thank you.

Okay. Can you hear me? I think I might take this off. So this is a standalone ordinance where it is basically fashioned after the existing one for the C1H, but it is very specific to the White Deer Plaza area and it basically lists the permitted principles to be inclusive of predominantly what is there today. and takes into account what had been previously noted with regard to the inclusion of hotels, motels, and inns. Those are no longer in here. as listed approved or permitted uses. So outside of that, it's fairly straightforward and also lists specifically the blocks and lots that are within the White Deer Plaza Historic District.

And did the Lake Mohawk, is your organization approved this? Are they okay with it or still need your internal approval?

It has been approved. Yes.

Board, what I'd recommend, and I got this on July 17th, so I did review it. I apologize for only sending it to you yesterday, but I would think it would be proper to put it on our next agenda, give you time to look at it. I'll have time to submit this to the township attorney. If he had any comments as to this, and we could have a discussion at your next meeting again, this is a, uh, you don't have any power in of itself to pass the ordinance, but as part of the consistency review, and we have the master plan, I think this is very timely. So, again, I'd, I'd recommend, uh, unless the, uh, any other comments, uh, from Steven, who's there, uh, uh, we'll just put it on the next agenda.

No, I think Sabina's got it covered. Thank you.

I'm in agreement with that, especially since our next meeting is on the 19th and the town council's meeting is thereafter on the 25th that they choose to make a decision at that time.

And Christine, you had some, uh, and I, I, I appreciate you reviewed it already.

I did so I took notes. I did.

Okay. Um, so I wouldn't be surprised. Joan has reviewed it. I don't know yet.

Um, I just had, uh, 2 questions. 1 is, I know that in 1 of the properties and reviewing the block and lot numbers. There's a daycare there. So my question is, is that considered retail?

Chris, can you please use the mic? Thank you.

That would be helpful. Okay. So I noticed in reviewing the block and lot numbers, I believe one of them has a daycare. One of the properties has a daycare in it. And I'm just wondering, is that part of what you would consider to be retail? Or does that need a special provision to say it's allowed?

It would be special provision.

Okay, so I think since it's already there, maybe that's something to think about, is just to add that in there so that that is... We can definitely take a look at that.

It could very well be something like a... Yeah, we're trying to get away from the pre-existing non-conforming, so we'd have to look at the language specific to that kind of use, that is general terminology in zoning ordinances.

It's just that the only concern is because it's already existing. Yes. If something happened.

If they do any kind of improvements, we wouldn't want to have to require them subsequently to go for a variance. Right.

Agreed. So if you could think about that. Yes. And the other thing that concerned me was when I was reading page two. In the paragraph it says required conditions and then the sentence reads the requirements for the c-h WDP zone shall be the same as c1 zone So my concern there is that's not the c1h zone, right? Because the c1h zone has bed and breakfast hotels and motels in it So do you need that sentence in there at all? Tying you to another zone?

Well, C1H as it stands today has that same language in it. It refers back to the C1 zone.

Okay. I just want to make sure that... It's an overarching one.

So we're good?

Yes. Okay. We've got time. We'll take another look at that.

Yeah, we will. Absolutely.

Those are just my two things.

Thank you.

And then just quickly, we have...

the board engineer board planner here i'd recommend obviously if they could take a look at this and give their input uh i think that would be proper absolutely so as a point of process you mentioned that this i think when we had this discussion we said that the intent was for us to basically bring this to the council right as um so we were going to make this recommendation to the council right so Does it make sense that so I guess in that process question, if we reach out to them before we talk about this at the next meeting, then is that bypassing our process? Should it just stay with us and then go to them when we, when we've had the discussion.

I mean, transparency is not going to hurt us here. Okay. It's a, you know, I think the comment, it'll be in public at our next session. We have a nice framework here. Christine, good comment, but I think we're okay. Okay.

I have one comment, if I can, just a question. When I look at the principal uses, number four, Is apartments over retail, commercial, and office establishments? So that's a permitted use, but I think it's also captured in the conditional use. So the question is, should it be one or the other?

So the first one is actually based on existing. Existing? Yes. It is not for proposed.

Good question. So, Ken, would we need number four? Just so it's not, so it doesn't, if they're existing, I think it's already there. Yes.

However, if we were to have an establishment that currently does not have an apartment above it, then that would fall under the requirement for a conditional use.

You're on it. Oh, I see. Okay. Go ahead. Okay. Let me think about that one, too.

So, for instance, we had...

Okay.

Okay.

Let me think about it a little bit more.

Okay.

No problem.

Thank you. Mm-hmm.

Okay. Any other preliminary questions? Because we'll do a deeper dive at our next meeting.

So, Celeste, you'll have them on the agenda. I believe Joan...

I haven't really had a chance to go over this because I was busy, and as you said, it came out last night. But there are a couple things. One is Chris brought up the C1 zone. That would be kind of like where J. Thomas Jewelers and a lot of that area, and then this other area as you're coming down Woodport Road and stuff. But a lot of that also refers to the design standards that are in place there. And I don't think like Mohawk should be having the same kind of design standards as a C one zone and that was one of the reasons we brought this up last year, because we were going through the minor site plan subcommittee and looking at the signs and we were running into in a lot of questions and trouble about it. Last time we met we asked that can. put together an ordinance, but this is now just coming back with some changes from last time. But, Ken, I'd like to recommend that you take a look maybe at the TCC zone. I think it's a much stronger ordinance, and I think it would be more beneficial for Lake Mohawk to have some of these more stringent things the signed standards are much more updated there until such time as we're ready to look at design standards and signs specifically for c1h and if that's not ready i think that the tcc will offer much better protection for that and overall and i noticed some of these things did change from the last time and it did not incorporate all of our comments and i took a look at what you had sent to town council um because i had asked for it but it wasn't given to the rest of the board and it didn't include all of our comments so i want to make sure that all of that is incorporated in here so maybe you can take a look at a rewrite because this should be coming from a land use um position you know what makes sense in that area and we and we're going to look at in the master plan but we should be thinking at it from that perspective now too so all of that is intended to happen this is what what was existing from from the club and what the club provided to us correct but now we have to right now so now it's time we have to do that before you know not just look at this but i really would like ken's input and have a review of tcc and some other things to you know kind of tighten this up a little bit um

Good comment on the you can reference the TCC zone as to design standards.

Well, I think there's some other protections in there, too. I just like you to take a look at it because I think it might be a better starting point and incorporate some of these changes into that. But take a look and get back to us on that. You also mentioned sending this to the town council attorney. Keep in mind he has a conflict. So who should we send it to?

We should send it to the clerk, and I understand Mr. Zepp may be moving on, so I would send it to the clerk and the acting administrator.

Okay. And I had a question. How many retail establishments are there now, kind of following up on what Ron was saying, how many are there now that do not have apartments over them?

I don't have that number exactly.

Could you find out? Sure. Because I think there's only one. I have a list in my office. I'm concerned about spot zoning, and maybe, Ken, you can address spot zoning as well.

Okay. There are at least two that do not.

We need to take a look at spot zoning. And I'll have to go, you know, as I said, I haven't had much chance to go through it, but based on some of the discussion, those are my comments.

So, all that having been said, Ken, what do you think your timeline would be for?

I'll have it by the next week.

So, I'd like to keep it on the agenda in August. Okay, so we'll be able, we'll be capable of reviewing it.

Prior to, and even if we don't, let's say at the 17th meeting, the 19th, I'm sorry, we need more time. We need more time, but I'd like to see it on the agenda. At least we have the discussion.

And, I mean, this is not – this in and of itself is not spot zoning.

No, we're – I'll take a look at it to make sure that we're not offending any spot zoning.

Right. I mean, because it's – okay. So we should be all right.

David, do you think you'll have a chance to look at it by next meeting? Yes. Thank you. And did Lindsay run away? Where's Lindsay?

Lindsay is still working on her – Lindsay's IT now.

Lindsay's IT.

She's wearing her other hat.

Lindsay, do you think your team could look at it by the – thank you.

So you'll coordinate with our professionals? I will. And then get back with Lake Mohawk?

Yes.

And then by the 19th, hopefully way before the 19th, or at least a couple days before the 19th, the goal is to get it to us so that we could discuss it openly and it'll be on the agenda on the 19th. Correct. Okay.

Do other of you have any questions of us that, you know, you're here? You may as well ask.

Just glad that it appears that there's progress being made on it. It's really important for us. Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks, guys.

Almost there. Okay.

You know what? That's a good sign. That is a good sign. Do we need a five-minute recess, or can we proceed? all right we'll have two open to the public sessions seeing as though you know we we uh we need to fill the time so if anybody has any questions comments for items that are not on the agenda please feel free come to the microphone now and if you don't have comments if you have a good joke we'll appreciate that we'll appreciate that too like you always have a good one

If you know anything about IT, that's welcome as well.

Yes, that's welcome as well. Okay.

Almost there.

Almost there.

All right.

Oh, so close. Put your monitor on. You can see it on there.

We're so close.

All the way to the right.

I just wonder, can we make that bigger?

It's not touch because maybe it's not plugged in.

Yeah, I mean, I thought it was.

Yeah, we just have to get it.

She is. But you can't see it, right?

Okay.

So apologies to those who are viewing online and those who are in the audience patiently waiting for the community facilities element presentation and the recycling element presentation, which will be happening in tandem.

Yeah, no power.

I think we have this almost worked out.

Should be there somewhere you see it.

Okay.

There any way that camera could zoom in on that? Because you can't see it from the public.

Oh, yeah.

They have to they have to put it on the line.

Yes, you should have to put it on the line. Okay. Okay, so it's our anticipation that everyone at home is capable of. Seeing the presentation, if not, please weigh in feel free. And we will do our best to remedy the situation you're in. And without further ado, we will be presenting the community facilities element and the recycling element. Lindsay, take it away.

All right. Good evening members of the planning board. and my tech assistant, Raisha. Tonight, we're going to be presenting the draft updates for both the community facility element and the recycling element for Sparta Township Comprehensive Master Plan. These elements all serve as kind of a blueprint for sustainable growth, ensuring that the township's infrastructure, public safety systems, and environmental framework kind of keep pace with the community's needs. So next slide, you can just click, I think, Raisha. You can get it just lined up for you. Just click the mouse. Okay, click the arrow forward. Okay, this is now.

I can't see it on the live screen.

Okay, so we're getting word that the public can't see it. No picture.

It's on presentation screen.

Is the actual presentation in the presentation mode? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

What we could do is maybe take it off so we can see you guys, and we can put the presentation physically online tomorrow for people to see. They said all they see is a black screen.

Yeah, they said all they see is a black screen.

Would it make sense to, Celeste, you mentioned five minutes.

Yeah, you know what? We're going to take a five-minute recess right now to see if we can make sure that the public can see this.

Okay, so hold on a second. Let me see.

Yeah, five-minute recess.

Can we just ask what it is so next time maybe we have an idea?

I think it's just a matter of telling the tech group that we're doing a presentation.

That's what it was?

Well, I think they come in and they have specific ways they want to set up the room, and it wasn't set up tonight. So Raisha and I were troubleshooting to try to make it work. So we were trying our best. I think there was just a miscommunication.

Got it done, which is great. So just, like, store it up here.

There's a lot up there. My brain's a little bit like Swiss cheese, though, so I can't make any promises.

We're live, which is good. So now that the technical difficulties are seemingly taken care of, we'll let Lindsay, again, take it away.

All right. Raisha, you can hit the little arrow all the way at the bottom. Would it be easier for me to just sit there and use that mic? Probably.

Yeah, probably. Yeah. Do you want to switch spots, Raisha? I'm sorry, you said what? You're going to swap. Switch spots, yeah.

It'll be easier.

All right. working we're good. So kind of the overview of the community facilities element and the purpose is the community facilities is based on the MLUL or the municipal land use law. It directs municipalities to inventory the township's public assets, evaluate operational capacities, and project future capital investments. This ensures that educational, cultural, historic, and public safety facilities are properly aligned with the surrounding areas. So key municipal services. Sparta's public services are robust. The township's police headquarters are currently supporting 36 officers alongside regional dispatch, managing a baseline of over 39,000 incidents a year. Fire services operate across three stations with more than 50 volunteers, while the township's volunteer and paid ambulance squad handles roughly 1,500 calls annually. Sparta also houses a consolidated municipal court serving Sparta, Hamburg, and Ogdensburg. So other resources that Sparta has are the water and sewer utility. Regarding utilities, the Sparta Township Water and Sewer Utilities operate a decentralized network out of 12 Park Lake Road routing wastewater to the Sussex County Municipal Utilities Authority for regional treatment. Potable water is managed across the Highland, Lake Mohawk, and Sunset Lake systems. Moving on to the recreation and green spaces, the township's parks and open spaces, including Station Park, Dykstra or the Library Park, White Lake Fields, and the Sparta Mountain Wildlife Management Area, to name a few, provide exceptional recreational value. We kind of showed some of those options there in speaking with kind of the subcommittee. We spoke about a lot of the resources within these parks, walking paths, fields for recreational facilities, and how in the future hopes of continuing the use of natural grass for those fields is something that's of the highest priority to the community. So in addition, this network of recreation and green spaces is heavily supported by the township's many local houses of worship, civic organizations like the VFW and ELKS, and active community groups that strengthen the township's social fabric. In addition to the semi-public community assets, Sparta does have a number of private facilities, several notable facilities contributing to the community and quality of life. They consist of private lakes, golf courses, parks, marinas, and recreational amenities. Next, we kind of look at the school systems and we did inventory on the public schools as well as the private schools. The township's public school system, including Alpine Elementary, Mohawk Avenue School, Helen Morgan School, Sparta Middle School and Sparta High School are projecting significant enrollment growth, particularly in the elementary grades. This is notable, especially when considering site plan applications and as they move forward. We think that incorporating things from the long range facilities plans that the schools have done or something we should think about with upcoming applications and things that should be considered with those applications as well. After the schools, we start looking at things like health care facilities and access. You know, there's local access versus regional. On the healthcare front, residents are well served locally by Atlantic Health Urgent Care, the Sparta Health and Wellness Center, and specialized surgical facilities with regional trauma and acute care supported by Newton Medical Center, St. Clair's, and Morristown Medical Center. Next, we start looking at the accessibility of Sparta as a whole. A major priority for this element is enhancing accessibility. So SPARTA currently lacks a comprehensive ADA audit, and we would recommend establishing a formal ADA self-evaluation and transition plan to systematically review municipal properties, prioritize barrier removal, and leverage available grant funding to universal compliance. Sustainable Jersey community design for all ages is something that we should also consider. This is localized walkability, which is sometimes called the 15-minute neighborhood. That means children who live in a neighborhood have accessibility to walk to things in their neighborhood like parks, libraries, schools, or seniors can reach community facilities. So this kind of entails better sidewalks, better lighting, having shade structures along your sidewalks or benches or more street furniture so that especially with the senior population, when you're going on those walks, there's the ability to take a second and rest. Now, with all of that being said, we kind of start looking at your public safety capacity and planning for that and your kind of key operational metrics that would influence these things. So as I said earlier, your police service has 39,054 incidents. That's the 2025 baseline. So like I said earlier, you have 36 full-time officers. That's inclusive of two special law enforcement officers and a civilian staff. A recent FBI audit said that 45 is required for this size of a community. But we would recommend an internal study speaking to your police department as well as looking at the police service areas and where maybe these calls are generating from and determining maybe it's a matter of having more service in certain areas. Once again, we think that these incidents should also be coordinated with site plan applications and police capacity, not necessarily asking the police just about their input regarding, we typically ask for like circulation comments, but maybe in terms of the location of the property comes into play when we consider the use in relation to their capacity as a police department. Next, you have three fire stations. It's 100% volunteers and you have 50 plus members. During our outreach, we heard a lot from residents as well as from the fire department that there's currently a critical need for a facility or a satellite facility near North Village. A lot of the things we heard were that a lot of the firefighters did not live near that area and it would take a significant amount of time to get to that area. In the sense of safety for the community, we think looking into something like that in the future would definitely help the fire department as well as the community. Also, the fire department brought up a great point, especially for at this board or even the zoning board when considering height, there's 105 foot ladder and that should be something we're cognizant of when we look at the heights of the buildings. It's not necessarily saying the height of the building, but also things like setbacks or some kinds of obstacles that could keep the fire department from getting up to the building. I've seen issues where there's parking decks and then the building and the parking deck really limits the ability for the fire department's ladder to get to the top of those windows to really safely get to residents who are in need. Next 1500 ambulance squad calls. This is from 2024. This is staff from there. We're working on getting some more recent information. It's notable that most of your ambulance are paid and volunteer. So it's a mix of both. And then finally, here we have a shared regional communications and court services. And this is used to optimize municipal facility efficiency and lower capital burdens. This is shared with Sparta, Franklin, Ogdensburg, Stanhope, and Hamburg. I feel like that just skipped forward. OK. So community facilities, the key recommendations that we have here are to kind of summarize what we've went over. Sparta should establish a formal ADA transition plan. We think that's incredibly crucial, especially when we heard from the stakeholders in the senior community. We should utilize the police incident baseline in site plan reviews. We should mitigate the impacts of deferred capital projects through grants and continually explore shared service to drive down costs. Next, we're going to go into your recycling element.

Lindsay? Yeah. Do you want to complete the community facilities before we go into recycling?

Yeah, for sure.

This way, you know, everybody can kind of stay on point.

Yeah, we'll go back here.

So, yeah, this way it'll also be easier for you to get back to slides that people may want to reference. Yeah. So I'm going to bring it up to the board for comments and questions. Brian, we're going to start with you, if you don't mind. Okay.

All right, um, 1st of all, um, I want to say, thanks to the, to my site plan subcommittee. I know we got a few people out there in the audience. So for what you've done is a lot of good work. I liked the things that you called out that the need for a Northern village fire station, uh, the community center, and the potential reopening of white. Like, that's all good stuff. Um. I actually had a lot of questions and you answered a lot of them in the presentation. So, let me just, let me just go to the punch lines of it. Um. When I looked at the, I guess, first of all, does SPARTA have like a facilities manager or facilities administrator? And has that person had a chance to look at this just to make sure that they're in sync? Have we reached outside of the?

So during our so with this draft, we have not circulated it. Basically, subcommittee and planning board or who has seen this ahead of this meeting during our stakeholder meeting, though, we did meet with various stakeholders. So like Recreation Department, we met with people there. So one of those things also notable is, you know, like many other departments, they're requesting, you know, an audit of their staff to make sure that they have enough staff to cover the shifts, to cover the activities and things like that. So while not presented in this presentation, we do say in the element that doing audits and making sure, you know, things like field time, is there are do we have enough fields, right? Or is there issues with scheduling? And we think that those kind of internal reviews will be really valuable to determine you know, what Sparta needs in the future and how your budget should look into these changes and this investment into the community.

One thing I will say is this is all new to me. And so I looked at a couple of other towns and see what they had in terms of facilities.

Sure.

And most of them have like one or two pages. So this is a really comprehensive Well done element.

Um, thank you. It was a lot of the subcommittee, um, did a really great job of helping us get the information, especially like, I. We have that note about, uh, White Lake Beach and and, um, the importance of possibly looking into that reopening and, you know, without the subcommittee's knowledge of Sparta, we wouldn't have known that. So while we put it all together, a lot of the work was from the subcommittee.

Uh, just a couple of questions just, um, when I, when I go to the recommendations. Um, the 1st, 1 was direct the planning board and zoning board to utilize the 39,000 incidents. I'm not sure. How would we do that? And I guess the word to direct who's directing who is it to me? I think what I heard in the presentation was. You know, look for ways to give consideration to these as opposed to direct somebody. So, yeah, I think that's probably better. Different wording. A little bit.

Yeah.

And again, the concept was there.

Yeah, it's definitely leaning into the help from all of the stakeholders in the community when we do these reviews and not just, you know, planning, engineering is great, but also how it's going to affect, you know, the police department, the fire department as well. It's really valuable information as well.

One other comment is, you know, when I looked at the – there was a lot of good forward – looking objectives. With the police and the fire department there wasn't much there in terms of the ambulance squad Would it make sense? I know we got we got aging population and we've got Some some affordable housing coming in to put something there. Maybe you know Periodically look at all emergency services absolutely and add the ambulance squad to that kind of do periodic audit of your emergency services You know, in fact the emergency you can almost do those with every examination just so it doesn't get left out Yeah, it's probably a quick look for sure The other thing was the fields, in terms of the artificial field versus the natural field. I know there's a lot of different views on this.

Oh, yeah.

And when I read the... The recommendation, it was almost leading. And, again, we're looking. This is not just what we know today, but what are we looking for 20 years from now? So, you know, I'd almost think it would be better to word it in a way that said, you know, look at what the life cycle is, which you did.

Yeah.

But then look at, you know, what are the options? Without calling this one's better or that one's better. Leave that to the experts in the study. But just look at the options. But, you know, no, it's coming. But make that part of a reason. And I'm not even sure, you know, from a from a planning board perspective. Is that us? Is that the recreation committee department? Is that the town council? I wasn't sure what to do with that recommendation.

Sure. Yeah. So fields in most municipalities are pretty controversial, whether it's natural turf, lights, no lights. So it's definitely something we try to handle with a little bit of sensitivity. I think in terms of saying specifically to go return to natural surfaces, maybe it's looking at the technology of fields and see what is the best technology right because that's always going to be evolving whether it's you know sod or it's natural grass or you know whatever um i think as a town making your best decision for your youth right and for like the the life cycle of the field is most important yeah and then and then the last one um i apologize i you know had these um in the write-up

You mentioned a re-evaluation of reopening White Lake down the road. Don't want to lose that. Right now, the money's not there. 20 years from now, it may be.

Yeah.

I think that should be a specific recommendation added to the list.

Yeah.

Okay. And that's it. Thank you. Great job.

Thank you very much.

I'll pick up with the last 1 with the white lake and can you please use the mic?

Thank you.

I moved it up so you can see the screen. Um, yeah, that's, you know, that's something we really don't don't want to lose. And, you know, I know. I think 1 of the reasons it was. It went to the Y at one point, and then they became not interested in it. But that may be something to partner with Lake Mohawk on because lifeguards is an issue, and they have a very robust lifeguard program with so many beaches and a director and everything else and a waterfront director. And that may be a good public-private partnership. for that lake as well, because that's something that they know how to do. Absolutely. As far as the... I also noticed the discussion on artificial turf. You know, the one thing I notice about Sparta's athletic fields when I travel around the state of New Jersey, the quality of the turf is outstanding. And in talking to the guys from the parks and actually even the retired parks director, One of the things that's helped them is having one or two artificial fields that they can put people on in the early season and get them off the grass so they don't rip it up and tear it up. And the same thing with the late fall when the grass is more susceptible. So I think there's, again, it's probably left to the experts in parks and recreation as to what the right balance is. I think it's good to have both. But um you know there there's there's benefits there's obvious benefits both ways and uh I think we leave that to the as Ron said to the to the experts to uh to make that determination and uh and proposal um and then my last comment is the uh just you know I just want to make sure everyone's aware of the ammoed squad is is not a township department it's a standalone organization um and that's that was made necessary because when they went to paid um the only way they could do that was to was to be on their own so we we do have um you know limited direction towards that towards an import towards what they do um you know but they do an outstanding job and i think it was it was it was a great idea for them to go to they that hybrid Because I know when I was a police officer, it was sometimes tough during the day to get a full squad. And especially if you needed a second ambulance, where now they have at least two-page ambulances in service during the day in business time. So anyway, those are my comments.

Yeah, we'll definitely put a note in that as well, because I think that's important.

Can I jump in real quick?

Yeah. Because it's just kind of food for thought and thinking about the history of White Lake. And I brought this up that, you know, I grew up going there as a child. My father used to scuba dive in White Lake. And at one point it was private and you had to know the guy across the street to get access to it. And But it all faded away, but then we built North Village. So are there enough residents in the North Village area to have memberships? Because again, if you're a child, you can walk to the beach. Just food for thought. So Brian's studying that.

Or even looking into if there's potential grants, right? Because it could be a community resource in some way.

Sorry, just...

So, Brian, that's a great point. And actually, those were discussions that also that came up a couple of years ago. And even the thought of opening it up for, let's say, water, like you could bring your canoe there. You could fish there because the lifeguards were were a big issue. There's also an easement issue that goes with that property that they were trying to work through at one point. So maybe that's something that can be taken back up again. But even if we could just get it, you know, work in the future, because it is a tremendous asset. The water is crystal clear. It's beautiful. Yeah. And it gives people it's a great it's a great space. But I think I think that's something that's really good. I think we just from a land use side. have to look at some of those issues. And to Ernie's point, lifeguarding is very tough. I know at one point the rec department worked with the YMCA to handle and process all of the registrations. But I believe because it's not really a YMCA asset, it's sort of, I was told, sort of fell short a little bit. But something to bring back. Good points.

Ernie and Ron covered everything that I had questions about the EMTs turf. Yes, I was around when it was such a controversy with people wanting turf and then it was voted down and then they finally got it. That is going to be a touchy subject. And then White Lake, again, my kids grew up going there and swimming there. And it's such a great asset, like Christine said, that we definitely need to make that a priority. It would be a shame not to use it. That's it. That's all I had. Thank you. And great job. Thank you, everybody. Yeah, thank you.

So I obviously agree, White Lake. big asset. I think in the master plan, maybe it should also, because it's really fantastic, you mentioned all these spaces. I know the rec department just recently, I think it was last year, they worked with Jean. They did this huge inventory of all the recreational spaces. And I think sometimes when we think about adding additional recreational spaces we forget about all the things that we could still do with the spaces that we have i would love to see that reflected here you know we don't have to necessarily go out and find more spaces right i mean if that happens great but i think there's a lot of things that we could do with the spaces that we have like white lake like the glen like station park um and i think that if we look at at that i think that's important too and maybe that should be in here like Like taking a look at the spaces we have to figure out, you know, if you guys remember up at White Lake Field forever, that track only went halfway around. And when we were on the council, the question was, why does this thing go halfway around? Like, this makes no sense. Why would we have a place that a thing that only goes halfway around? And our own DPW department finished that. So there's a lot of things that we could do internal where we don't need to go out and get a crew, hire all this external stuff. There's a lot of things like that. Look at the benefit. I walk almost every day at 6.30 in the morning up there. That place has people way before I get there. And into the night when I go to my grandchildren's games and stuff like that, people are constantly walking around there. So things like that, I'd like to see that here, like do a periodic interest, almost like an introspect. In the Glen, let's get some of the trails back. You know, things like that. So I think that would be good if you're looking, to Ernie's point, 20 years out, right? The other thing is, I think when you mention the fire department satellite location on the other side, I think it's important to also perhaps include the police department over there. The other thing is, if that building is leveraged properly... It could also serve as a backup dispatch center. The other thing that's important about doing that is homeowners actually that live over there, and I know because I've dealt with them and tried to help them and the managers had to help them before, you know with your homeowners insurance, a lot of times it's based off of what is your proximity to a fire hydrant or your proximity to whatever. And many times letters had to be written for people that lived over by the homestead and over by that area because it's so far away. But I think also for police and, again, to be able to build out and have our own backup system over there, I think maybe that it should just be expanded to maybe be emergency services, not just the fire department.

Yeah. That's a great idea. We just heard it directly from the fire department during stakeholders. So that's why it probably is focused on them. But I think adding all services is especially we recommended looking at the police and where your calls are coming, generating from and seeing where locations maybe need to be for a substation. So I think that that area in general, having an emergency services facility would make a lot of sense.

Right. Like, so that's my take on that one. Yeah. On page 8, I just had a question. In looking at the district's long-range facility plan, does this information, so I see the student information and the projected jump and everything, and my question is, this had to have been done before the affordable housing component was finalized, right? That's what I'm saying. So these numbers, I just want to be clear, these numbers do not include the influx that will be coming with the additional affordable housing units, correct?

Correct. Yeah, we don't know anything about the housing element at this point or what is being proposed or what the developers who challenged what their proposals are. We're not aware of any of that.

Okay. The other thing I had a question about was VoTech. So it just seemed kind of to me that VoTech was like, oh, yeah, and we have VoTech. We also have a charter school over there. So there's a middle school charter school also on Route 94. And so I think that, you know, I don't know, maybe I just missed it, but is it there? The technical school.

225 students.

Okay, so it's in there, good. Okay, the other thing that I would recommend putting into a forward view, because I've heard this a lot from EMS in the past, is because of our proximity to emergency services, they really need a helipad somewhere. So in the wintertime, and Ernie, I'm going to defer to you on this one, a helipad so that in the middle of the wintertime, when there's snow and ice and everything else on the ground, or even other times, they have a space where they can land a helicopter safely. Not in snow, not in whatever, something that's maybe heated or whatever it might be. But that's something I've heard repeatedly. And I think that should be included in this, especially as our numbers are getting bigger and bigger, to maybe look at expanding the facilities that we have. And I think one big area there is helipads.

A perfect use for them. cloverleafs up here on the bypass. One of those areas in between. There's a lot of land there. I mean, you know, more than 75 years ago, they used to put gas stations there. But I know we don't want to do that, but it's probably a great place right in the middle of town. To Christine's point, one of the problems with the helipads or the medevacs is they generally use the Malk Avenue Uh, which disrupts his head classes, uh. You know, youth sports games, you know, it can be a little hectic for the firemen because they got to now keep the kids back who get excited about that. Having a dedicated helipad in the middle of town, especially in bad weather when they're still on the ground, what they end up doing now is using the bypass and closing the road down.

Okay.

So, I mean, you're closing a major artery down of traffic to be able to put a helicopter, you know, down and transfer a patient, put a, to get maybe the state to allow us to put a helipad in one of those areas, which is very central to the town. That would probably be a great location and it's state land that's not being used. Thanks for sharing.

Sure. And then my last thing is just to jump onto what they were saying about turf. I feel like this comment to look at it and look at removing it, I think that's putting the cart before the horse. So I do think that needs to be reworded because remembering when everybody was sharing their feelings about getting turf here, The whole thing was our kids are going to be playing on turf wherever they go. So it's important because things do react differently. Balls take different hops, cleats behave differently. So we felt it's important for them to at least be able to practice and be whatever. That doesn't mean every field is turf field at all, but it meant providing them a place where they could practice. So when they get to all these other schools that have turf everywhere, they at least understand that things are going to be a little bit different. So I just agree with, I think what I heard, and I'm having a little trouble hearing over here, but I think what I basically heard was don't make the statement, look at replacing it. It's make the statement, look at the best solutions out there rather than this thing is, this sort of reads to me, well, if it's done, put grass back. So. Got it. That's it.

All right. I'll try to be quick. I'm coming at this from a totally different perspective. Nice job to date so far. So good. It's very nice. Very good and informative. I'm coming at this from a pure financial and economic perspective and maybe just clarification. So as all these elements are being developed, generated, developed, looked at. At what point does the master plan go through a kind of like a financial test, an economic and feasibility analysis study? Is it during each phase as you're doing these elements, or is it once you pull a final draft, then you put that through that financial stress test?

So there's a couple of things. We do have an economic development element, but I don't think that's necessarily hitting on your question. I think overall, when we look in like kind of the introduction, the way we're kind of doing this is we're doing all of the elements. But in the background, we have an introduction. We have all that information. And that is what is kind of giving you a holistic look at the entire comprehensive master plan. And it would be in there where you look about it. capital improvements. We can talk about grant funding and all the different opportunities for funding and whether it's planning for your budget, but we don't actually dive into the direct numbers. I don't think you'd want us to put any budget information in there.

And I think it's important because it's great. We're putting all this effort into it, but it still has to be practical, financeable, investable. It has to be achievable over a period of X to Y timeframe. And it can't just be on hopes that... community grant programs are available or some type of financial assistance and the like are there. There has to be, just like you do a business plan, you have to put a pro forma behind it to justify and then see if it's sustainable and it's scalable. And that's the way I'm viewing this, is from a scalable perspective. If this is going to be a lot of broad strokes, My other comment here, if this is a lot of broad strokes, we want X, Y and Z. I think then we should not be so specific in identifying. I like the turf field conversation. I'm supporting the comments that were made earlier. I mean, if we're going to say broad, this is kind of division. This is what we want. And let's keep the recommendations broad, not specific.

Got it.

All right. And then the other thing is when you look at all these breakdowns, they all have a staffing. They all need a staffing plan, which goes right back into the financial and feasibility study and plan, you know, looking at police incidents. I'm a little questionable about that, but I understand to look at that data and what's that data telling you to try to accommodate it. It's a matter of then at that point, the numbers you just presented were short-staffed as it is by X number of police officers. So as we're developing this plan, there's got to be a staffing plan, whether it's for recreational... community, fire, police, etc., that as we're scaling that over a 20-year window, there's a staffing plan and a budget. And it's a forecast. It's not hard numbers, but it's something that you're putting pencil to paper and trying to really do some supportive math that makes this Feasible and attainable.

Yeah. And the idea is, you know, when we go to a lot of the stakeholder meetings, a lot of it is, oh, we're short staff. We don't have enough people. And we think a lot of it has to do with we need to do an internal audit to see if you really, truly are short staff. Right. It's easy to feel like, you know, maybe you don't have enough help, but maybe it's just the resources aren't being used correctly or people aren't being used correctly in terms of, you know, maintaining fields or things like that. So I think. to say, make a statement, say, oh, you need more staff here. We think that there's more study that needs to be done before saying, you know, you're short staffed, right? You had that FBI study that says you should have 45 police officers. But when looking at, you know, the number of incidents, where are the incidents happening at what times of day? Maybe it's looking at, you know, the shifts and do you have enough people on that shift? Or maybe there's not enough people on that shift. So I think it's kind of looking at that information and And it's making determinations off of that, not just making, you know, just making a rash decision that, OK, we have to add more people here because we feel short staffed.

I understand. I think someone mentioned the the housing element. Yes, I think that is kind of goes hand in glove with all these other elements because of the impact of the housing and the projected or the. The real or perceived impacts that that additional, whether it's from affordable housing or other, is impacting growth in that particular area. It kind of dovetails and crosses all these other elements. So putting that last, I think maybe that should also kind of blend in and be considered even some baseline to get you.

Absolutely. that'll be crucial and maybe even this ends up like especially community facilities maybe that ends up being amended because we realize you know the numbers that were projected by the board of ed maybe they're changing because of you know we use the rucker study to determine how many school children are going to become from these and um from these i'm assuming there's probably going to be one or two projects um and i think having those numbers and making assumptions on that and utilizing the board of ed information will be critical right so maybe

something continues to work or maybe something doesn't continue to work and you know we need that information as well and i think that data could be valuable i mean there's 10 20 year trends you could get out of whether it's the school board or or the or the township budgets and and and the like that can help support that you'd be surprised i've been looking at that and it's you know you look back 10 years from you know x to y and what you perceive or you think is happening the numbers are a little bit different than what you would think. But this is a great start. I just want to compliment your work and efforts on this and obviously the committee and everybody that's involved. So thank you.

Sorry to interrupt. And just to clarify, we are not adopting this this evening, right? This is a presentation. We're taking your input. We're going to take it back. We're going to add things. We're going to tweak things. So all of this is going to be included as well. So I didn't want anyone to think this is the end of this element no we get a second bite at the apple when the the entirety of the document gets adopted yes yes can i go can i just i'm sorry go ahead no no no that's just if if there is going to be a second bite maybe you just have someone within the municipality look at this to make sure that they agree with all the data that's being presented i think it would be a great idea to recirculate it to the members of the stakeholder meetings like when we broke out into smaller like just one person be like hey whoever wants this light reading

um responsibility there was someone that was responsible for handling facilities at town hall um so maybe you could reach out to them they work over at the dbw okay so um maybe just want to reach out to them i could send them both elements then what's that i could send them both elements then the recycling element is yeah because that's where you're going to be dealing with your recycling as well and some of your debris removal and and all of that kind of stuff and also just um i was curious so i reached out and got the number so just so you know for because i you just said you wanted an updated number yes for 2025 ems from the ambulance squad the calls are 1595 so this way at least you have that number to to i know you said you wanted it so yeah slightly higher than the 1500 from so the increase yeah

Lindsay, I'm sorry. I just have one other question. From one of those stakeholder meetings that we had, we had breakout groups. One of the things that somebody, I don't remember who it was, brought up was community facilities and you know, taking more advantage of, you know, how we use them. And they brought up things like music festivals, fairs, you know, having food trucks come in, things like that. Are we incorporating that anywhere? You know, when we talk about facilities and how we can use them?

Sure. So in the community facilities element, we do speak about a actual community facility, a community center. Based on a lot of the stakeholders, what we heard as well as they did not want a sole senior center. They liked the idea of kind of the integrated classes where they were taking a cooking class with some younger people and they really appreciated that. so in there we do have a recommendation of looking into some kind of community facility where things like that could could happen whether you know you have that parking lot and you have your your food truck festivals or your music festivals or where internally maybe you have you know some kind of holiday market or things like that that can like really incorporate people in the community kind of being social and being together and enjoying you know spending time with your neighbor okay thank you yeah so with sambar

Yeah, so we've covered a lot of ground here and this report is a wonderful educational tool. So thank you. I enjoyed reading it. Some things that I just want to bounce thoughts off of are the cost of some of these suggestions, as you mentioned. And I was at a meeting recently at another township and they were discussing the need for a fire truck. those are almost a million dollars now for a fire truck so I know that as we expand development we need more services but we have to be safe but these are things that need to be taken into account before we make these decisions and expanding development I think I like the idea of shared services and a dispatch center. And then Ernie had mentioned a heliport and location for a heliport. I'm wondering, some of you may know we do have a heliport over in Lafayette. if um you know perhaps that would be um people could be made aware of that and we could share that area that was part of a green acres uh project um a couple years ago so um just um up 15 a little ways uh and over towards warbass junction area there is a heliport access for medevac there of course i'm thinking about the turf turf you expected that probably you know the turf issue there's a lot of new research that's coming out of europe denmark scandinavian countries that use have tried using turf fields And there's a lot of negative information about the health-related impacts for youngsters, as well as the soil and the disposal costs that are involved. So I do think we need to keep a close eye on that, and we're trying to do that in the supplemental commission. So those are just some of the thoughts that I wanted to share with you. Thank you again. Thank you.

So after listening to everything we've been talking about, I think we do need to prepare for the future and have an annex building to service the North Village in that area of town. It may not be a problem today, but 20 years from now will be. And only perfect practice makes perfect. So... What we prepare for today will be ready for tomorrow. The other thing, I think it's wonderful talking about the growth of White Lake, but nobody's mentioned anything about, and you see this when you travel south, a handicapped fishing dock or a fishing pier. And maybe that's something that can be incorporated and done with donations so it's not a huge cost to the town. You know, DPW work can help too. I mean, there's Boy Scouts that can help develop these areas. We have a trout stream. There's nowhere for a handicapped person to pull up that enjoyed fishing at one time of his life or her life and can utilize these facilities in that respect. So, you know, it's something to think about. And, you know, it's not a far reach, I don't think. You know, donation-wise, you know, there's, I see many walks done. People have donated. They have their personal placards put on the walks. You know, recognizing their efforts, too, I think is very doable, you know. And that's, you know, all I have, really, for this event.

Thank you. And to kind of piggyback off your comment, one of the things we do touch on ADA accessibility. And I think one of the things when we think about ADA accessibility, we don't think about other disabilities recognized by ADA beyond physical handicaps, right? So we think about people in our community who maybe are on the spectrum. And I think one of those items that I don't know if we touched too deeply on it is looking into spaces that are accommodating to everyone, especially who experience the environment from a sensory standpoint a little differently than the rest of the community. I work with another community where we took an old fire trailer and we converted it into a sensory space. So when the community had a tree lighting or there were fireworks, The trailer was brought in and it was kind of like a safe space for, you know, people on the spectrum. But there's also a correlation between some of the soothing things between people on the spectrum as well as those starting to suffer with dementia and Alzheimer's. So there's kind of, you know, you find spaces like that, that maybe it's in your when we have that community facility plan, you think about things like having that room where lights are dimmable sound is a little quieter and you can think about things like that as well for you know accessibility purposes can we add that in yeah can you put a sensory space like whatever you did the trailer yes trailer is that what it's a trailer yeah they repurpose the trailer and in there they have dimmer lights they have noise cancelling headphones um we designed it in our in our offices for them and Um, it's kind of like, this is kind of like my passion project as well is, uh, is designing spaces for people on the spectrum and making sure that we can, you know, it helps if you have a sibling who's on the spectrum, right. Then that child doesn't have to miss out on opportunities as well. And the parents can go to a place and go there with confidence, knowing that, you know, if the child is having, you know, a meltdown or having, you know, having a moment, they can go into that space and, you know, it's nice for the whole family.

I don't know how anyone else feels, but I would love to see that added. As something to be looked at as expansion, I didn't want to interrupt, but I just think that's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Really great.

I think as, as especially isn't like numbers, um, rise with people, um, being diagnosed, um, being on the spectrum. I think it's something that's kind of going to start being critical to communities to think about. No.

Well, I had the opportunity to serve on the committee, so I had my input there, so I don't really have questions, but I think you guys all made some really good points to add to this. And just to add a little more to some things that were said and the reason for baselines, as Chris started to bring up more development equals more calls, and that was brought up particularly by the police department. And I think the reason for the baseline is they want us to recognize that. And then when they're saying more development, it's not just commercial. It's housing. It's, you know, whatever it is, it's going to result in more calls. And even if people are just coming to work and they're not in the community, they service those people, whether it's through the EMS or the police and everybody who travels through. So they wanted us to keep that in mind. And they both mentioned the need for an annex. The other thing Lindsay brought up that I just want to elaborate on is the 105-foot fire truck. We do have one, and I think there's only one other in Newton. I mean, I could be corrected on that, but we have one, and what they said was this 105-foot fire truck is capable of putting out a fire for three stories. It can do four stories, but the scenario changes because to do four stories they actually have to drop the line above the building and it becomes a more dangerous type of situation so just to put that into perspective of what that means for you know the one truck so um three four three stories they can do three stories comfortably but when you go to a fourth story they have to go tackle the fire from above they have to drop a line um what that means i don't know i assume they drop a guy down Jenny was in that meeting too. I don't know that you get the same impression. It's a person going down, which becomes very much more dangerous. Yeah, everything and that's all we have. We have 1 and then there's only 1 other. So if it's a large fire, it becomes a, um, a problem. Um, and Lafayette, they said was short staffed, which was.

The real yeah, well, this is a great point. I mean, our. You know, it's Chief Odom, Chief McCarrick and others, you know, across all the services looking at this. Now, are they waiting to see the final draft product?

Are we soliciting input? We can circulate it tomorrow because I'd prefer them to see and get their input. So it can be incorporated. Right. We don't want to give it to them like the ninth hour.

I think soliciting her input now and, you know, getting her feedback now is critical.

Yeah.

And then just to touch upon something that you triggered, you know, when you mentioned development, the perception, everybody goes right to the development on commercial industrial. Everything that's in this element and everything that's going to be in this master plan is a form of development, whether you're open space, recreational trails, et cetera. That's all forms of different types of development.

So is traffic.

streets, roads, infrastructure, energy, transportation, all that.

All of it.

All those elements are all different types or forms of growth and development. You know, call it growth and development, whatever taglines they... I know they put sexy words next to them once in a while when they update these things, but I think it's important that we all look at it that way because whatever we're trying to promote or try and expand and bring to the community... It's going to take some capital and some improvement work and effort in the form of quote unquote development or the like.

Okay. Any other questions or comments from the board? So with having been capable of giving my own input on the subcommittee level and with Lindsay, passing with with putting putting all of this together and hearing all the comments that that you guys have made one of the things that that kind of stood out to me so when we were talking about baselines and cost and and things of that nature I also want to want to note that even though this does take that into consideration the heavier lift on that side is going to be with regard to the ordinances and that are involved in giving this document its teeth. So when we look at how those facilities come together, how things get designed, how all of these audits and so on should be performed, that's definitely going to be more, in my opinion, on an ordinance level, because that's going to give the actual information in terms of how these things come about. And then, of course, we look to council to say, okay, this is the intent and this is the thought process for the next 20 years. And as much as we would like to say we have crystal balls, we don't. We do know that things are changing. We do know the housing element is not finalized yet. We do know that there are going to be more residents within the confines. We do know that the numbers are growing. And as all of that happens, we look to the council with the hope and anticipation that financially we get to the point where we're capable of supporting the growth that's going to happen on that side now whether that be you know to to write some of the the ship in within the confines of the municipality or or looking at how monies are being spent their audits don't just need to be in terms of personnel and and you know how HOW THESE THINGS ARE STRUCTURED. AUDITS SHOULD ALSO HAPPEN WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THIS BUILDING AND HOW PEOPLE ARE BEING UTILIZED AND HOW, YOU KNOW, EFFICIENCY IS MOVING ACROSS THE BOARD BECAUSE A LOT OF THE ISSUES THAT WE RUN INTO WHEN IT COMES TO APPLICATIONS, COMPLAINTS ABOUT APPLICATIONS NOT MOVING THE WAY THAT THEY SHOULD OR PEOPLE NOT GETTING INFORMATION available? How long did we have to wait to get zoning maps posted to a website, right? We're still having technology issues. So all of these things, we kind of look to the council and to the people in this building, not saying that people aren't doing an amazing job because they are. It's just that when we talk about audits and analysis and looking at all this stuff, it just brings to mind that for the master plan, To be effective, this building needs to be effective. So we're hoping and looking to counsel to to, like I said, give the ordinances. The teeth that that this document needs in order to be able to move forward.

Um, also, and that's a good point. And in order to get to that point, when this thing gets drafted, you have to do a gap analysis. You have to do conflict analysis. You have to see what ordinances support this current plan. Do you cannot put the cart before the horse and or pick 1st of this thing has to be. Broken down at the priority. Right. And priority may be a phased approach, you know, like no different. You're going to lay this out over a two, three, four phase program. But all that preliminary upfront work needs to be layered into this, whether it's economic, financial compliance ordinances, you know, gap and gap analysis, all that should be done now because. Just a level of effort to get that right-sized has to be supported. And if 80% of what we're talking about is in conflict right now, there's a hell of a lot of work to do to get our ordinances fixed.

As much as I agree with you on all of that, the unfortunate circumstance is that takes money. And that's something that right now we don't have available.

And this township and this building to defend it a little bit. And it's not to get into a debate. The call it efficiencies, inefficiencies. They are really strapped here with resources. This is an understaffed. understaffed township building here right now. I agree.

I literally said the same thing.

I mean, I'm on board with it. And that's the level of effort it's going to take here, right? I mean, you can't ask anything more from what we're, and we've got people really squeezing tight now.

I get it. So basically, all I'm saying is that in order for us to provide what's being asked, right, in terms of, you know, doing a deeper dive and getting more information, And pulling all of that together, you know, I mean, the subcommittee has done an amazing job in dealing with stakeholder groups, in getting together in extra meetings, in doing subgroups where they're getting together, trying to parse out as much as possible. So we're just – we're at a point now where – We need help and, you know, we're reaching out for it and we're hoping to get it. But, you know, I don't want to see certain things be missed. in these elements because we didn't have the facility to be capable of grasping onto that when we had the opportunity.

But the energy and vision that's being put into this, keep that momentum going. Don't worry about how we get there. The vision and the energy that you're doing here It's very productive. This is the furthest I've seen a document like this go over a long period of time to see something like that. So I am on board with what you're saying there, Celeste.

I appreciate that. Also, in saying that, so when we talk about facilities, I met with Parks and Rec. And one of the things that they had talked about, and yes, OK, we talk about people being understaffed and so on, but they specifically spoke about maintenance. Right. So we want fields, we want trails, we want all of these wonderful things, but we don't have the manpower to maintain it all. in a timely fashion. So when we look at those things in terms of audits, I really think specifically with community facilities, Parks and Rec should get a little bit of extra attention when it comes to maintenance and the facility that they have available to them to maintain all of these things that we're anticipating.

know moving forward with in the future that all having been said thank you one more thing as I was I think it's important so and I just recalled it when we were meeting with the police the they were saying the nature of the calls is significantly changing and how they are spending much more time now on mental health calls. The number of mental health calls and the time spent, they can spend six, seven, eight hours on a mental health call, taking that patrolman off the street. And I think they said they're usually two of them. So just, you know, keep that in mind too, that the nature of things is also changing, particularly with They said after COVID, you know, you could see some of the mental health issues and the aging population. They're doing a lot more with the aging in mental health calls.

So just to throw that in. Yeah, thank you for making that point because I remember us talking about that at length at the subcommittee level.

Can I ask a question?

Sure, but I do want to open it to the public.

Just a question for Lindsay. So, for example, the master plan, I don't have my copy of the current master plan with me, so apologies up front. Um, but I don't think all of these elements are in our existing master plan right now. Correct?

Correct.

Okay. So, my question is for this 1 in particular. What would be like, outside I, I see this document. Not as being backed by an ordinance. I see this as being a guiding principles. Like, these are the guard rails. These are the things because I don't think you could put an ordinance together. For example, because you can't say, well, if you put up a, an annex fire truck or a station, it has to look like this unless because you don't know where it's going. It just has to be over there somewhere on the other side of the rainbow railroad tracks. In which case all the design is going to be tied to wherever it ends up, right? Whatever zone or wherever it might be. So, I guess to the point is. Hopefully, some of these don't need that rigorous. Ordinance backup, so when we look at something like this 1, and this was my question to you, do you see ordinances that need to be done to enforce the guard rails of this element?

So. yeah not not necessarily in a sense some of these items i think could be ordinance amendments in terms of adding things to say your site plan checklist right maybe it's making sure that not just getting a letter saying the police department is okay with the you know it's going deeper into that asking the police department to do kind of an inventory of that area and ensuring that they can service that area so that would that would be where like the ordinance part comes in for the most part these two elements are really meant to be more inventories they're meant to look at what you have almost as like a picture in time this is what we have this is what we were expecting and then when we look back on it you can see because you'll be doing re-exams right and in the re-exams you'll be able to look back on it and say okay this is what's changed since then and that's where you can start pulling ordinance or that's where you start determining you know some of the ordinance i mean the recycling element some of that information in there is in ordinances and there are some ordinances for the recycling element specifically that contradict. So the amendments would be making sure that the ordinance or information on the website coordinates with the ordinances. That's where it wouldn't be ordinances like bulk requirements, right?

Right well that's what i'm saying so to me in both of these elements, because these are one of these elements is in what we have right now. So that's why I was trying to kind of get an idea to your point Celeste I know it needs they need teeth behind them, but in order to move them forward, maybe some like these two. Just need guard rails refined versus ordinances that cost money and an ordinance amendment.

It's still is still going to cost money. Right? But that's why I was asking her. Does she see that?

Does she see this as being requiring a lot of ordinances? And if so, what? Because I'm just trying to in my head visualize how would you put ordinances to any of this?

No, any of these ordinances would be very minor amendments. Like I said, adding something in your site plan review section, adding something in your recycling section of your ordinance. just to make sure it's coordinated nothing would be like a complete reworking of your ordinance because kind of based on what we've looked at within the within the town um and what is in your ordinances we don't see the need to rewrite it based on your community facilities right we're not saying re rezone this area because you need parks and you need fields we're not suggesting that okay thank you yep

So that having been said again, thank you to everybody on the subcommittee. Thank you to everybody on the board who just weighed in on this and I'm going to open it to the public for any comments or questions on this particular section.

Hi, um, there is in the 84 plan, there is. A section called community facilities plan element. There's land use, circulation, housing, utility service, community facilities, recreation, conservation, stormwater, energy, and then implementation. So there is currently.

It's not broken out like this.

Yes, yes, there are elements. So that's what I wanted to say. So what we're looking at now is one of, I think, nine elements. So these are little snapshots, what Lindsay just said, snapshots of an inventory of where we are right now. So we went and talked with, I talked with a whole number of stakeholders. I talked with the chiefs. I talked with the EMS and the schools and got their input. for Lindsay and the committee to form the specific elements that are related to those stakeholder inputs. And so that's what this is. So there may be a couple things like White Lake was missed. We added it in last week. But for the most part, these are little pieces of what SPARTA looks like right now. And then there's a separate part that is not what we're talking about yet, and that's goals and objectives. And in those goals, those are the things that an application, those are the things that when an applicant comes or an ordinance comes to the planning board, you're going to be looking, and please correct me if I'm not stating this correctly, but you're going to be looking at those things, whether it's an application or an ordinance for consistency, and you're going to put it up against, just like you do now, the master plan document, including, and most importantly, the goals and objectives based on the input of these little snapshot elements. And so, This is just a small part of a bigger document that is basically, as Lindsay said, it's a snapshot in time, but it's also going to support then the important part, which is the goals and objectives, because it's based on the goals and objectives that you are going to have your ordinances. And those ordinances are going to come from the committee in the form of recommendations. And some of them are going to be, for example, the first, and I don't want to get ahead of myself or ahead of the committee, but one of the elements is one of the goals based on what we've already had. So we looked at 84 goals and we revisited them to see what would be important now. And for the most part, we kept most of them.

Yeah, a lot of them are still very much relevant. Very relevant. The objectives just are really what's going to change of how to achieve those goals.

Right. So as we put those together, that's the blueprint. And this is an overused word for this, but that's what it is. It's a blueprint on which you're going to base your elements. And we're also how you're going to look at the impact of a development, whatever that development is, in terms of the use of the resources, the impact on the schools, the use of the the impact on the infrastructure, and that's where the cost things come in. But that's not what this is about. This is about putting up the structure, the framework on which you're going to put your ordinances together. Maybe there's ordinances here that still work, but then maybe there are ordinances that need to change based on the input from the community and what they want to see for their town going forward for the next, this document's 40 years old, for the next 20 years, let's say. So when you're talking about cost of things and money for things and money for studies, that's not what this is about. This is about setting up the framework on which you make the decisions. Do we do a study? Where do we need a study? What information do we need to support new ordinances that are going to support the master plan? So I hope I'm not overstepping, but that's my... overall from the comments that I'm hearing.

Yeah, and that's a good point. I mean, I think what would be helpful for the board here and also the public is an outline of the process.

Okay.

Whether it's a flow chart, an organizational kind of flow chart, just showing here's the steps of how you do a master plan, and then at what point are you starting to bolt on a little bit more aggressively the details behind them, right? And I just heard the word blueprint. This is the blueprint, right? And then as you're building it, I think the sequencing and the steps should be important. Because the last thing I want to do is start hearing ordinances are going in for three of these things, and we're not even conceptually there as an overall master plan document.

That's not even the role that we have. The role that we have is to take the input from the community, to take the input from the professionals, the look at what things are right now. and put those into the various elements. And some of them are statutorily required, right, Lindsay?

Yes.

We're required to have them.

And some are like the community facilities, recycling element, these are not required. But we think that they're important for the sense of having this moment captured, right, and understanding what is going on and what's affecting the remainder of the comprehensive master plan as well.

This one is not required. And is the recycling one required?

No.

So neither one of these are required?

No. Okay.

Good ideas.

When somebody is looking at our community, they're going to look at the master plan. This is these are the things that are going on.

Yeah. And the MLUL does say that these like there is sections in the MLUL how to do these sections, how to write them, what's expected of them. So although they're not required for a master plan, they have a whole list of other elements that you can do in coordination with the state requirements. So it's not like we're not just making this up to.

No. Yeah. I don't think anyone's saying that.

Circulation, land use, circulation, land use, stormwater. What is it? The storm change. Climate change. Right. So all these elements will come to you.

So I think the what Mike said, just to just to give that some credibility in the normal way people think. Yeah. I cannot stress. I think that's important. I think at some point at some meeting or on a website somewhere or something, the whole thing should be laid out for people so that they understand the amount of time and what goes on, because in pretty much ninety nine point nine percent of everybody's life. You would start with goals and objectives on any project in the free world. Like really most of the projects, right? You are starting at the end point. What is the goal? Why am I doing this? What is the objective? So I think people are confused in following along right away. This is great stuff. But I think to Mike's point, if, if you're not on a member of the planning board, you're not familiar with what a master plan is, or you haven't seen one really, um, I think it would just be nice to have maybe just a piece of paper that's on the website.

You don't have to do a whole thing. We do have a website that is out there that the public can use and can view. And we did go over this when we started the initial survey for data. for the master plan. So it's, is it helpful to revisit it? Sure it is. But to be fair.

If you did in the past, bring it forward. This is the process that had been done.

Right. So in order to master plan, just Google Sparta master plan and it'll come up. It's not on, it doesn't live on the website. It's not hard. It's hard to find if it's there on the, in the township website, but just Google Sparta master, Sparta township master plan, and you'll find it. And it's very well resourced site to go to. And you can look at the old master plans, and that might give you a better idea of what we're talking about. But both things are happening in tandem. So the elements are being worked on at the same time as the goals and the objectives are being worked on. We have the goals already. We're just working through them. And Lindsay is working with the committee and the other professionals to put together the other elements. So that's all.

Thanks, Jenny. Anybody else have anything to add?

Hi, just a quick comment on artificial turf. Are you surprised? There's currently a bill before the state legislature that proposes banning the use of Green Acres funds for artificial turf. And if you look at the current research, there is a lot of detriments to artificial turf through the microplastics, PFAS, many of which are endocrine disruptors, The use of the crumb rubber infill made from recycled tires that contains those PFAS chemicals. Also, the disposal. They typically age. I think the lifespan of an artificial turf is 8 to 10 years, so they have to be torn up and either recycled, which I don't think happens very often here, I think there's new technology that doesn't use crumb rubber infill, but there's still a lot of detriments. I realize it extends playing time, and you might think it might be viewed as a necessary evil. I understand that. But as they age out, I would urge you to re-examine replacing them with natural turf. I know many of us grew up in a time where there was no artificial turf, and we survived quite well. So just something to keep in mind. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay. I think we're ready to move on to recycling.

All right. Let me put the presentation on. I'm getting really good at this. Okay, so transitioning now to the recycling element, the core purpose here is to kind of align the local development review process with state environmental mandates, protect the public health. Slide.

We're looking at the facility still.

There we go. There you go. Thank you. Protect public health, conserve natural resources, and integrate long-term waste diversions.

And that's a picture of trash.

So as far as recycling programs, so the programs relies on a mandatory source separation for all residential commercial and institutional properties paired with single stream curbside collection for coming gold containers and fibers. Compliance is backed by local enforcement and fines which directly help fund the local Program. So for non-residential properties entities, must secure private hauling and submit annual recycling tonnage reports. Crucially under development regulations, new construction projects must submit a formal recycling plan during site plan approval and a certificate of occupancy is withheld until licensed recycling hauler contract is secured. I'm sure many of you guys have heard David and myself often bringing this up during site plan reviews to ensure that these developments are going with private haulers. Next is the 2025 tonnage metrics for residential recycling diversion. In 2025, Sparta successfully diverted 1,303.93 tons from the waste stream with vegetative waste and paper products making up 46 and 25% of that total. This is heavily supported by the partnership with the Sussex County Municipal Utilities Authority, which provides access to multi-material recycling centers, free drop-offs for electronics and textiles, household hazardous waste, collection events, and commercial composting facilities. So construction and demolition, waste and solid waste utilities. The state mandates require construction and demolition recycling for projects generating over 40 cubic yards. While Sparta currently relies on Chapter 26 soil and fill placement permits for controls, formalizing a standalone C&D plan is a key next step. Financially, the solid waste utility operates as a self-liquidating fund with billing credits available for eligible senior citizens and veterans. And we'll get into that a little bit more on this next slide as we go into the solid waste utility finances. So solid waste utility manages funding services is mandatory for non HOA residents. But you cannot opt out. But HOA residents can request to participate with written requests to the clerk, but must enroll for solid waste and recycling programs. You can't do one or the other and cannot terminate an active municipal collection until the contract term has ended. Annual bills are issued in January, although they do come in for installments. So you can do that seasonally with a 10-day grace period. Unpaid charges for 30 days will be a formal delinquency notice. And then finally, as we talked about those credits, the township does give a $25 available credit for senior citizens and veterans. Next, we kind of just go into the recommendations here. So strategic recommendations for recycling focus on four areas, amending ordinance to incorporate a formal construction and demolition waste management plan, investigating community food scrap, organic waste processing partnerships, which could also include developing a backyard composting initiative for food, lawn, and garden waste by providing educational materials through the township website, social media, and partnerships with the Sparta Public Library and the Board of Ed. to provide info on how to begin and maintain backyard composting systems. Also, investigate, also develop a digital reporting portal for annual recycling tonnage, provide update single stream sorting guides on the municipal website, and review and update the availability and design of public recycling receptacles. I know we also talked about in the recycling element, different kind of apps and different programs that residents could potentially have that help you understand, you know, the recycling processes, what days things are being picked up, whether it's, you know, garbage or your recycling um or you know your christmas tree pickup things like that um are something things that we could look into to providing for residents and that concludes the recycling element

Okay, um, before we move on to board. Um, so now that the professionals have heard. Both elements, is there anything that. Dave specifically that you've heard that you'd like, you'd like to add, see, um, addressed.

Just a couple of things number one. I think Lindsay and the committee did a great job quantifying all the townships assets and I think the Municipality should be very proud of all the assets that it's got its to bozel. They're very blessed that way The only thing I was going to suggest on the going back to the resources was for the water department I think you've got a unique situation in that a portion of the water system actually penetrates down into Byram Township and And I think that should be suggested that it's noted in here because there is some infrastructure that gets involved down in Byram. Just like you pointed out that the skoom over in Hardiston Township handles the processing of the waste. Again, Sparta Township has some responsibility through its utility to keep the people in Byram Township in water as well. That's the one thing I noted.

Are you talking about right around here by the Glen and the guy who came that one time and talked about protecting the sewers from the Rossi? Or is that something different?

You're talking about the Newton Reservoir?

Yeah. Oh, Newton. That's Newton. I'm sorry.

That's Newton's water supply.

Morris Lake is Newton's water supply. What I'm talking about is as you look at the map up on the screen right now, the roughly rectangular area that's Lake Mohawk. It doesn't stop at the municipal boundary line. The water system keeps going down into Byram Township. You're not under the Board of Public Utilities because you don't have that many customers or that percentage revenue involved. But still, you're married there, if you will. So I think that'd be an important part for everybody to know for the future.

Thank you.

There you go. I wasn't sure off the top of my head without looking at the maps if it was just the distribution line. But if there's a water tower down there and someday if there's a well down there or whatever, but you are married down in Byron Township.

Dave, I'm going to reach out to you. Thank you so much, Dave, for your input.

Ken?

Yeah, just real quick. Lindsay, excellent job. I took some notes that I can help on the revised next draft, and I'll share them with you. Thank you. Nice job.

Okay, great. So now we will open it up to the board for comments, questions on the recycling element. We will start down on Joan's side this time. I don't have anything. Okay. Mike?

Does... there a future plan of having a recycling center um in sparta township where you can actually bring you know your recycling to the center or is that something that's uh i know some townships have it some townships don't i don't believe we have any now yeah i believe there i believe there is a facility now it's uh yeah we actually mentioned it i think where is it Where would that be used to be?

I don't think there's one here right now.

I think you, you have to go to the, I think there's like a regional facility that you have to go to. Yes. Yeah. It's not in Sparta. No, I don't have anything.

It's not too far.

It was part of specific one is what you, you're saying instead of the regional one. Right. Yeah.

Okay, I think it's like, right there. Yeah, I always think. Yeah, it's not it's not terribly far.

Maybe we just highlight it and say, this is where it is. Yeah.

What was I thinking? I think that's a good idea. Okay. Um. So, yeah, so recycling, um, I. was a little bit concerned a few years ago when we decided to change our sorting of and we went to dual stream instead of our single stream instead of dual stream. And I know that there is a recommendation that we consider returning to dual stream. And that is because we have had, I guess, less marketability of our recyclables overseas. And this is because they have to do the sorting and the cleaning. And I think this would make our market for recyclables more steady and secure for the future. I never really understood why we switched, you know, from sorting our paper from our bottles. And I know you follow the money, you know, everywhere. But I was never given a number when I asked what is the difference in cost to the town. So I would seriously like the master plan subcommittee to read this material and to consider transitioning back to our discussion. dual stream. So I'm wondering if you have any thoughts about this, Lindsay, in terms of what other communities are saying, because it does say here that several communities are changing if they were doing single stream back to the dual stream for the obvious benefits of marketability

Yeah, I think it was just looking at kind of not necessarily market trends, but looking at kind of recycling and how, you know, the recycling that we think is being recycled isn't necessarily going where we think it is. A lot of it ends up in landfills. So I think it was kind of looking at that and seeing what the possibilities are of going to dual stream for more environmental purposes.

Well, I think that SCMU doesn't really care, you know, if we do either. It is a matter of cost. So how would we look into that and to try to be more ecological globally and statewide? Um, you know, that's policy policy decision. Not necessarily. I think that's a sound question. So, every 5 years.

Sorry, um, every 5 years, usually the contract is reviewed and comes back and the last time that the contract was put together, they dual or single stream was offered. And the thought was not so much about money, but to more encourage people. not to just stick their cardboard, you know what I mean? Like rather than having them put everything apart to really encourage people, just put, you know, you don't have to put everything together with a string and smoosh it down because people were just cramming it in regular garbage. So it was to go this way. But I feel like in understanding how the government works and sitting on that side of it, that's a decision that should be brought to the council for policy, maybe not something that can be addressed in the master plan because it's contingent upon availability, And the contract, and it's not so much with schema, it's with the hauler. So, and, and that could change. So I think it just needs to be, you know, another, like, we did, like, we were recommending with turf almost, like, maybe a general statement. We should be reviewing. What are the best things? That's fine. But to actually put it in there and say, it must be this, I think is over almost overreaching of the master plan. That's more of a policy thing that should be brought up to the council. When they're renegotiating the contract.

Yeah, I guess I, you know, I understand that. I, I can see that, but a master plan also is a vision for the community. Um, you know, and what we would like to see it, because our community is part of a larger community and we want to, um, be able to, um. To recycle as much as possible that is our community responsibility. And if something like this returning to a dual stream would help us do that, that would really be a good broader vision, you know, for us perhaps. I know a couple of people in my community have said, why did we ever change? You know, I was stacking things. I had my paper box. I had my bottle carton, you know, and I would put it out and... then all of a sudden the confusion of, oh, everything just goes in one place. So it would, I understand, bring about a different awareness and even training and education within the community to switch back. But when there are several communities doing it for good reasons, it is something that perhaps this could become our vision also in the future and something to consider. Yeah, so that was something. Along with that, I was really glad to see that in terms of recommendations that we made a recommendation towards doing something about food waste. And I discovered there's a difference between food waste and plate waste. Okay, and I didn't realize that before and then I was seeing well, are we taking care of our food waste plate waste or both of these and in Sparta we're not doing anything about plate waste. Okay, and at skim over there doing very little about food waste, which is a huge problem in our country. So that also could be a concern and a vision for us to try to work on this in the future. Um, I know, I think we've mentioned in here food waste, but I don't see any mentioned a plate waste in here. And if New York City can do it, we can do it. Right. Yeah, even though we have bears.

It's funny, I said something similar today about composting in Sparta. My friend lives in Rockaway, and I'm like, if they have little composting trucks going around in Rockaway, New York, Queens, I feel like it's something we could figure out.

Yeah, it would be really worth it when you look at the dynamics of the problem is a third of all of our food is just trashed. So then what else? Oh, I think I discovered that we do have a food desert in our county and that's in Hamburg. We have an actual food desert. So this is just being aware of neighbors. And oh, Skimua doesn't have an anaerobic digestion facility which would really help with processing food waste. It does not have that. Some communities do and our alternative is for AgChoice. which is on 93 Stickles Pond Road. It has a couple other facilities. I know I ride my bicycle by one of them, and it really stinks. But, you know, that would be something that might be a good investment. Oh, and the last thing, well, there's other things, but it's getting late, that I wanted to mention that was a little bit, I don't know, just doesn't set right with me when I read that There's an annual senior citizen's credit of $25 and also for veterans. But you have to know how to apply for it if you're a senior citizen. For $25, you're going to get back, OK? And this brings up the whole other can of worms, so to speak, is the issue of just justice, social justice, in that my neighbors have three or four kids, and they put out two or three cans. And every other week, I put out my recycling and my garbage. But I'm still paying the big bucks. And I don't know what, maybe Ken, you know, or Lindsey, you know what other communities do about this, but I live in a community that has several single people or senior people, and it has, you know, families also. And so every Monday and Thursday, I'm faced with that injustice. you know, seeing that. And I don't know whether it's a percentage or whatever we could come up with that wouldn't be too difficult to figure out. But I think that would help seniors. I think that would help veterans. you know and single people and families so that's i know that has been brought up before um in town council um but was not addressed so i think that would be more helpful than 20 applying training senior citizens to apply for that 25 bucks a year rebate you know so that's all i have i think i'm good no comment chris

Yep. So just wanted to make sure that something was in here about DPW. When we're talking about garbage debris, they also offer our DPW has a huge station over there. So storm debris, tree removal, and all kinds of stuff like that. And I just didn't see anything about that included in this. But it is big. I mean, after some of the hurricanes, if you would have went over to DPW, if anybody actually saw it, it was piles of mountains of trees, shrubs, and all that kind of stuff. And I think that it's important to put something in there because that was also opened for free to all of, for example, the private HOAs in town. So that Lake Mohawk brought their stuff over there, Sparta Lake, all the private ones, all were able to bring it to our DPW And they collected all of it and got rid of all of it. So I think that's a key service that really was helpful to a lot of people. And they also opened it up to people who were businesses who had removed fallen trees so that you did not have to pay for the disposal of it. So they opened it up when the businesses came there, and I think that was something that was really helpful to the residents, especially right after something like that. So I think that's important. And I know everybody loves these. I don't want to be the doubting Thomas or whatever it might be on the backyard composting. I just think, I remember growing up, my grandmother had an outdoor compost and every time, you know, we took the food and everything like that and we would go out and put it in the pile and then it would get all steamy and she would be able to put it in her vegetable garden and all that kind of stuff. But my grandmother lived in Chatham and they didn't have bears and raccoons and all kinds of things with all kinds of creepy just things. And so I think that if we're going to incorporate that in the master plan, maybe a better thing to do because there might be Now there's also these machines, right, that you could – I'm going to get this wrong, so just forgive me. But there's some kind of, like, thing you could put in your kitchen and you could, like, put your food in that, right? Okay, so there's that, right? So maybe, again, instead of being specific to one type of composting – technology, like put it in your backyard and pray for the best. Maybe it's just say to make options available to people from the website to constantly make sure the website is updated with the most current ways that people can figure out how to handle their own plate waste and what did we plate waste and food waste. So I'm just saying maybe a little more general rather than being specific like that, because my fear is that you're going to get people. We've had a lot of people that moved up here from places that don't have some of the critters that we have right now. And then we think, oh, throw it in my backyard. Next thing you know, the neighbor lets a dog out and it's a problem. So I would like to see that just be a little more general because there's so many. It's changing so quickly. That's it for me.

I don't have much more to add except that I do love the idea of composting. As long as we can figure out a safe way.

I know the one thing I've seen is like a barrel on its side. It seals, it closes, you know, they can't get at it. That's the one thing I've seen. I know there's all kinds of different things out there, but...

that's all i got okay ron all right um a couple things again great job um i like looked at other towns nothing was this comprehensive so thank you job appreciate your work and all the master plan subcommittee everything that everyone's done there um similar to the last thing i think sparta has a recycling coordinator so i want to make sure they have a chance to look at this before it goes live i think they may have some some some comments um Paragraph 7-2, I just want to make sure, I'm probably misreading it, but it says that source separation is strictly mandatory for all owners, tenants, or occupants, or residential. For residential, I think we're doing single stream. So I just want to make sure, take a look at that and make sure there may be some more work. I think it may be residential where you don't have curbside pickup available, but it's not all residential.

He said 7-2.

7-2, the second paragraph, the first sentence. Got it. Okay. Um, you talk about school has hazardous waste recycling program. Um, they've also got, um, electronic waste events and paper shredding events as well as Sparta. I believe has, I don't know if it's annual or semi annual. They do a, uh. Paper shredding event, so probably worth while, uh, give a mention to that. One thing again, this is a net, but I think I'll make it easier for everyone down the road is within the, um, the element you mentioned, you know, pricing per pound. Well, this is looking forward 20 years. I would get rid of that just so you're not constantly updating it every time they update it. And, you know, maybe say for a fee or something, but I, you know, I'd get rid of that. Um. And then the last thing is, uh, 1 of the recommendations was to, I think, to, um. Provide some sorting guides for single stream. Um, and this is why I think having, um, the recycling manager, look at it. There is a lot of good information on our town website about. Uh, single streaming what what's what you should do what you shouldn't do. Um. as well as some of these other things we talked about. So that's a tool, and I think it's really important that somehow we get that website into this. I mean, here's just a picture of things, do's and don'ts, and this is one of several pages, so I think that's a good resource, and we should put that in here if there's any way.

Yeah, the issue that we found with some of the information on the website is that it's not correct. Okay. um so that was the one thing so it's funny you bring this up because we originally went off of the information that was on the website and then when we met with the subcommittee they're like what no that's not correct we're like it's on the website yeah yeah um so i think it's kind of getting it once again yeah

It constantly changes what they can recycle to get better and better at it.

Yeah, but once again, sending this to the recycling coordinator and we can all get on the same page as well is, I think, valuable.

Exactly.

And the last thing, you know, it's interesting, and this is kind of a side comment. You know, we do our recycling, you know, once a week and put it out there. But people really, you know, there's a lot of good information that people should know, should follow, right? And maybe it'd be worthwhile to get some type of a rave notice out there that says, hey, there's information on this. People should look at it maybe once a year or something like that. Once this is done, some people are going to look at some people will never see it, but this is important. I think getting that message out to people is important.

Yeah, we, that's why we suggest, um, and actually Neil's made this suggestion. Um, there's recycling buddy, which has a lot of the information that tells you about what day actually the, where I live, we have it and it. I can look on in the calendar and it'll say, OK, I have, you know, cans and bottles today. And it tells you what you can like, what cans and bottles qualify and how you have to, you know, remove labels and, you know, take the caps off, things like that. So I think and it's an app just on my phone and it gives me a little reminder the night before, like tomorrow's your garbage day. uh, have it out to the, and like during the summer on hotter days, we have to bring it out to the curb earlier and it'll send me that notification that, you know, get your, get your garbage out there by, you know, 6am.

And, and, and that, that's good. But, but I think, you know, the town, the town has a pretty good website. Sounds like it needs some updating, but I think that's, that's important that people know that, um, Because a lot of people reference the town website for when my garbage pick up. Is it here today? Is it not there? But just again, just a blast to say it would pay to have everybody, you know, take a look at this and answer some questions that you have. Like, for instance, I want to know how to get that twenty five dollars.

Yeah.

Twenty five dollars. Twenty five dollars. Twenty five dollars. Going out to breakfast.

It's twenty five dollars more than you had.

That's right. Yeah. I'm not saying that. I'm going. No.

Yeah. But I agree. Yeah. And I think maybe also getting in touch with the recycling coordinator. Right. We'll solve a lot of these things.

But again, another great job. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. The subcommittee as well.

brian i'm all set you're all set thank you no he's he's he's allowed um and and really quick again thank you to everybody involved subcommittee especially for all hard work and effort as always thank you for what you are doing and what you have done and what you continue to do um Just kind of want to piggyback off of something that Chris Dunbar had said in terms of dual streaming We have recommendations in there to to do an assessment for a bunch of other things doing an assessment for dual streaming Just to see what the differential is in cost is probably well worth putting in the extra three words into the element and that having been said I'm gonna open it up to public for comments questions and I knew it was coming. Hi, Neil.

Hi. I just wanted to make a quick clarification on backyard composting. I believe the recommendation was for providing education on how to do backyard composting because you can do it successfully. I know Christy mentioned that. revolving rotating drums. Those are available. There are other systems. I've been doing it for years at home with just an open container. It's all about how you layer things. So if you put the greens and the browns, there's a science behind it. So that's what we like to kind of do is provide education on how to do this. And many towns do this and they have programs and some towns even offer discounts on containers for backyard composting.

Neil, just a quick question. As the chair of the Environmental Commission, I know you guys do a big Earth Day event. Is this something that's worth having a booth at Earth Day?

Yes, definitely.

Food for thought for next year?

Food for thought and food for compost.

Thanks. Did someone say, does SCUMA have a place where you can bring your compost? Does anyone know that? No, I'm wondering.

No, they don't. They don't have any facility for food waste that I was able to find, but the landfill does.

That's the landfill has, they have a whole big recycling segregation section.

recycling yes but not and and to the point you can oh any resident can choose to separate their stuff and drive it over there right right but uh i was wondering like is is there maybe something should say skuma does vegetative compost partners you know what i mean to try to build like a shared service yeah like a shared service for this kind of stuff um

another quick question to the professionals with anything that you've heard in terms of comments any additional things to add before we wrap this up not on this element no thank you nothing thank you okay um so that having been said uh thank you again to Lindsay for all your hard work thank you again to the subcommittee for all their hard work um we are now going to move into executive session so Ken

Yes, notice was given for today. We have two matters to discuss in the executive session. There was correspondence sent to the planning board by Gray Law Group, a query as to the quarry closure. We need to discuss that. And also, there would be a discussion also of letter from the attorney from Diamond Chip, And we're going to take the quarry one first because there are some people who are conflicted on the diamond chip. We may come out from closed session and make a determination, but that determination would be quick. The diamond chip is requesting a hearing date and some other questions we'll discuss in closed session. And the Quarry is also requesting an analysis of the applicable ordinances. So that's what we're going to be discussing. These are both questions of litigation that would be discussed. And again, we may come out with a determination. Thank you. If someone would move to go to closed session and second, we can do that.

I'll make a- I move we go into closed session.

I'll second that motion.

All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay.

Oh, Jenny.

We're still like, oh, we're not on. This is still executive. We're on.

We're on. We're on.

Yes. Once they're going to go back in for the second matter.

Just for the record, we did go in closed session on the quarry closure. That's the Michelotti Sons Concrete Division application. We received a letter from Mr. David Gray, dated July 31st, 2026, requesting our interpretation of which ordinance is subject to their application. His letter of July 31st, 2026 specifically notes, the application ordinance of 175,000 square feet in place at the time of their May 19th submittal and also their July 8th, 2026 second submittal. We did discuss this in closed session as to whether or not the 175,000 square foot prior ordinance or the new 75 000 square foot ordinance which was adopted on june 23rd 2026 we did discuss this in closed session it's my understanding that there will be a motion going forward that the applicants application of may 19th 2026 which was supplemented in july 8th 2026 is controlled by the 175 000 square foot uh ordinance not the new 75 000 square foot ordinance and that was based upon the review of the board engineer and board attorney and advising us to the same if someone put forth that uh motion that the that the 175 000 square foot uh uh requirement ordinance is in place not the 75 000 square foot i'll make the motion that it's 175 square feet not 75 square foot ordinance i'll second Roll call, please.

Christine Quinn. Yes. Mike Wallace.

Yes.

Deputy Mayor Mike Sylvester.

Yes.

Ron Day.

Yes.

Christine Dunbar. Yes. Joan Furman.

Yes.

Ernie Ragstad. Yes. Vice Chairwoman Jeanette Burke. Yes. Chairwoman Celeste Luciano. Yes. Ryan Zimmerman. Yes. Birgit Bogler.

OK, again, we're going to go in closed session again for the public to the DCR matter. There are certain board members which must step down from that. So we're going to go in closed session. We may come back on that. Just those who don't want to stick around, it does look like June 2nd.

September 2nd.

I'm sorry. I got my, thank you. September 2nd will be the date under the appellate and Judge Minkiewicz's order that the matter has to be heard within 45 days. Therefore, it looks that that'll be on the agenda. again in september 2nd we will confirm that when we come out of closed session uh but we're not going into closed session and we'll probably come out with a determination of what date that matter will be heard if at all thank you wait are we out or in we're out we're out right now we're going into dcr yes we have to leave because we're accused On the record.

Are we back on the record?

We're coming out of a closed session related to Diamond Chip. I have an email from the Diamond Chip attorney, Frank Vitolo, of today's date at 4-23, confirming that they want to go forward with their application, number 689. uh... as prepared by uh... kim lee horn there's approximately six hundred and ninety eight thousand square foot two buildings and uh... under judgment which is opinion also uh... which was a firm by the belt division we have forty five days from the date of the entry to hear this matter therefore the matter will be heard on the september second two thousand twenty six agenda if the applicant request more time they have that election but under the court order we are to provide that within 45 days we are doing that on our agenda on that date we also had the highland uh hearing we're gonna see if we can push that off uh if not if the highland matter has to be heard the dcr matter would be at 8 15 p.m But more will follow as to the exact time. Our discussion also was that new notice would have to be given. We're talking about matters going back to 2023, 2024, and that even though we've continued the matter by way of the letter correspondence back. It was always determined to be heard pursuant to the appellate court ruling, which says it has to be in 45 days. We are entitled to a jurisdictional hearing, which will take place on June 2nd. And again, it's my professional opinion that new notice has to be given because of the amount of time that passed. If someone put a motion in favor of that and second, I'd appreciate it.

I'll put forth the motion.

Second it. Roll call, please.

Mike Wallace.

Yes.

Joan Farman. Yes. Ernie Rackstead.

Yes.

Deputy Mayor Mike Sylvester.

Yes.

And Brian Zimmerman.

Just real quick before we leave, we did discuss we have six members that are eligible on the planning board. Birgit was not here tonight, but she will be the sixth member. I will offer to the applicant whether or not they want additional members from the Board of Adjustment to be brought over or if they're satisfied with the six members because we do have a quorum. Thank you. Motion to close the meeting.

I'll make a motion to... I second.