Planning Board Meetings - Regular Meeting

livereamed on YouTube at www.youtube.comspartatwp. The time is 7:02 and the meeting is now called to order. Please note that no new business will be conducted after 9:30 and the meeting will end at 10. Today it'll probably be earlier. Um I ask that you stand and join the board as we pledge our nation's flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. We have a roll call, please. Janette Burke, here. Ernie Ragstead here. Brian Zimmerman here. Ron Day here. Chairwoman Joan Ferman here. Councilman Mark Scott here. Robert Blekeley here. Vice Chairman Robert Otto here. Celeste Luciano here. Christine Dunar here. Okay. Thank you. Um we're moving on to the approval of the minutes. Uh it does state that the January 15, 2025 minutes and the April 2nd, 2025 minutes are uh in the packet. However, the uh April 2nd minutes will be carried to May 7th. They're not quite ready, but the January 15th everybody should have in their packet and receive beforehand. May I have a motion to approve the minutes? I had some things I noticed. Yeah, first we'll get it on the table. I did as well. All right. So, is there we need a motion? I'll make that motion. Okay. A second. Okay. Now, we can have discussion. Go ahead, Rob. Page two, uh, Rossi is should be all caps R O SI. It's the recreation open space um inventory. And then immediately following the trail recommendation around Morris Lake was removed due to protests. Uh if you want to leave that

you can but it subsequently talks about Eric Bernstein um from Newton expressing concern. I think he was the lawyer for Newton. So just simply asking that we remove the proposed trail from Morris Lake. So I don't know that it was protests. It was just one lawyer representing Newton. Um that's all I have for now. Okay. And Mark, you said you had comments. Yes. Just on page one, Chairman Jones stated there will be a 30-day clause for all board professionals in their contracts. I thought they would be like that there would be a 30 days termination clause. Okay. Can add that. Yes. Anybody else have any comments on it? I had a question on oh sorry page three um I don't remember uh minor site plan subcommittee that uh Joan Ferman said they would be forming a temporary subcommittee is that temporary or No what I had meant then is this is going back to January when uh we just had a reorganization and we had not appointed any new members to the subcommittee. uh Ron agreed to stay on and he has done so through this date actually and um Brian is going to be replacing him and will be the newest member of the subcommittee. So temporary just meant during that transition we didn't have um a formal committee but that probably is the wrong word. Uh I think we could just say that we were forming a new subcommittee. Okay. couple just one comment kind of goes throughout the the document. You know, when I look at what was voted on, um typically what I'd like to see is who motioned it, who second it, and what the vote was. Four to two. You

know, we all voted in favor. Um when I go through the votes here, um it's kind of a mixed bag on the way each one is stated. Some has a motion that has a second without the first and not the vote. So, I I I think it would be important to go back and just for the record, just go back and look at each vote and say who motioned it, who seconded it, and what was the vote. That actually wasn't one of my comments because I saw on the fourth page and had Joan um with no last name made a motion to come out of executive session, but there there's no listing of a second. So, we can find that. Maybe these have to come back to us. We make the suggestions and then we reapprove them at the next meeting. I had one other um on page three open to the public for uh each of the people listed. It has their house where they live. Uh but one woman expressed concerns about the impact on her property, but I have no idea where the property is because her address is not listed. Page three. Um Yeah, where it says open to the public. Well, then I had something at the top of page three. The NPS um NPS the variances and waiverss. Does that include everything? Should it include everything? Because I think there was the should have two entrances and exits and there were a few other details, but then they end up in a resolution. So I don't know how detailed you want to get. Well, these were the these are the minutes and what was discussed at the time and the resolution came later and um I'm trying to remember if this was this was carried to the next meeting. So that's where we talked about. So in subsequent uh minutes you should see that and the resolution. All right.

Anything else? Okay. Then, um, as I suggested, let's, uh, make the revisions and we'll vote on these at the next meeting. All right. I would like to get some of the business out of the way before we go to uh, the presentation that we have for tonight. So, if you would look down to the resolution section and uh, planning board application 25-728, stop and shop for resolution 20. 25-12. Uh if somebody would make a motion to approve that resolution. Yes. Just real quickly, uh uh this is the resolution that was drafted uh memorializing the determination at that hearing. Uh also in the uh audience is uh Alexander Morgan Stern uh from Gibbons. He was kind enough to introduce himself. Uh and there is no objection from the applicant as to the uh resolution before you. and it has also been signed off uh by the planner and board engineer. Thank you. Okay. May I have a motion? Make a motion to approve resolution 25728. All right. Now, you may second. I'll second. Thank you. Roll call, please. Robert Blleley, yes. Janette Burke, yes. Ron Day, yes. Sledge Luciano, yes. Ernie Ragstead, yes. Councilman Mark Scott, yes. Christine Dunar, yes. Vice Chairman Rob Otto, yes. Chairwoman Joan Ferman. Yes. Motion has passed. Can we uh make any requite of the apple conditions, but could I make a request, chair? Go ahead. Go ahead. I wish you brought this up before we voted, but go ahead. Let's go. Yeah. No, I know. Well, uh, we've just been

talking about lighting standards, and you guys would remember that I had asked the applicant about 3,000 Kelvin. They agreed to everything. One thing I didn't do because I didn't want to make it a hardship was the monument signage. Um, and I believe they wanted to stick with ground lit and I just wanted to offer up a suggestion. It's obviously it's the time has passed for no other bite of the apple. Um but uh there's a lot of ground lit uh monument uh around monuments around town and uh daffodils have come up. It looks really beautiful but then you have these flood lights that are just sticking there. They're shining up kind of sometimes not in this case I don't think uh in driver's eyesight. So, I would just ask if at all possible they could consider uh implementing some lighting from above or goose necks onto the top above the lettering. Just a request. Do you Yeah, I would concur with that. It also interferes with the wildlife, the aven wildlife in the area, insects, bats, and and such things having the flooding going up as well as the safety issue for drivers. All right. So, Mr. Morgan Stern is is in the audience uh and uh he I'm sure can relate to his client the concern. It is it's not a mandate but it's a suggestion. Thank you. Thanks. And as a suggestion if you do it um it doesn't mean coming back to us. Correct. Correct. You know. All right. So that was just something you can implement on your own. We'd be very grateful. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Okay. Um, while we're on that though, um, I think we were talking about and it would be a good idea for the Environmental Commission to come up with some standards, maybe four or five bullet points, uh, that we could add into language when it comes to

lighting. So, yeah, I mean, I I could prepare something. Uh I wasn't sure how it works, but we've kind of talked about just some simple common sense uh things that we could do where we could suggest that lighting uh should not exceed 3,000 Kelvin for obvious health and safety of both humans and wildlife. Uh we could suggest um just turning the lights off after the hours of operation. We could suggest dimming just so that they the lights do the job that they're intended. I know lighting, bright lights are very cheap nowadays. But um you know this this would actually save applicants money. Uh light pollution addressing light pollution I think is probably one of the easiest things that we could do. And it um getting that kind of more amber light versus a a blinding blue white light uh would really kind of be in keeping I think with the rural character of the town and just um it'll showcase the commercial businesses really well and you guys will save money. Um am I missing anything besides just lighting controls on off shading warm temperature 3,000 Kelvin or less? Usually it's 2,700 to 3,000. Yeah, we had discussed that it would be um a transition, you know, when needed. It wouldn't be that we would have this huge budget item replacing, you know, all of the the the the lighting, you know, it would it would be phased in, right? So, what I'm thinking and would suggest is the environmental commission gets a copy of each of the applications and has the opportunity to comment. So when you comment, maybe just put in a those bullets and then we can incorporate that into our resolution. And then in in future design standards, if building new, we incorporate that. If repairing

and you're replacing a fixture, something we can discuss. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Um we're at the public uh hearing portion of the agenda. uh PB number 689 Diamond Ship Realy um they are on the application because uh as a reason well I'll pass it to the attorney can explain it. Yes. Uh if you recall there is a pending lawsuit by Diamond uh Diamond Chip Realy uh Judge Minkowitz uh and his March 5th 2025 opinion uh as part of that ruling mandated that uh DCR could come back before the planning board subject to certain um requirements. one, we would be able to have the jurisdictional hearing whether or not uh it was proper for this board. Uh there was other issues that the application would be a new uh and there would also be new notice. So the uh property owner has appealed that uh and they did timely appeal. It is pending before the appellet division and uh therefore it is listed on the agenda because it was a requirement of the uh superior court. Again, Judge Mikawitz uh we've complied with his requirement. It's on here. There is no action that needs to be done because uh we have the correspondence from DCR with uh reflecting in uh March 20th, 2025 and April 15, 2025 in which they are uh not going to proceed before this board until they have a determination by the division giving them direction. Uh, and I did speak to the attorney that we are not going to be carrying uh the matter on your agenda each month. That's

kind of silly because it may take months for the appellet division to rule. So, it's clear from the applicant that uh they are not proceeding at this time based upon the repeal to the appellet division. You have complied with what you need to do. There is no application before you. So, there's no determination you may need to make at this time. And uh again, the record is clear. It's duly noted that you listed the matter and the applicant chose not to proceed at this time and to pursue their appellet rights. So again, u there's nothing to do. This is just uh completing your task and duty and informing the public of what is going on. All of the letters and correspondence are on the website and uh I would like on the record that uh you were prepared to move forward. We had the representative of the uh board of adjustment uh present to make the quorum if need be. Uh but again the applicant has chosen not to go forward. That's it. Thank you. Excuse me. Mr. Porl, can you for the record please note it's for the prom planning board. Yes. Well, also for the record, just to be consistent, because we had the similar situation last our last meeting with Firehouse Apartments and the board um voted to not carry it. I'd like to do the same thing, but that would mean recusing everybody for about two minutes so that our diamond chip board could vote on it. That is a good idea. I have no objection to that. Why don't we do that? those who have a conflict, if you would respectfully just, and I apologize to the public, it's just formality. If those individuals have a conflict on the DCR matter, if you would just step down to the uh regular audience, we'll take our vote and then uh we can proceed.

There's no need to leave the uh you don't have to leave uh the public forum. Excuse me, Mr. Porro. Should we call the actual prompt planning board meeting? We need a roll call. Yes, please. A roll call. Yes. Robert Blakeley. Yes. Ernie Ragst here. Brian Zimmerman here. Ken Lori here. Chairwoman Joan Ferman here. All right. So gang the uh issue before you as the chair had said the uh our practice has now been when there's a request for an adjournment we make a formal requirement. If you look at the letters of the applicant, even though he used the word agend adjournment, uh the attorney does recognize that it may take some time for the appellet division to make a determination. And also in that letter, the attorney for DCR also recognized that he would have to give new notice. So therefore, there is no need to carry uh the matter on your agenda each month. So there uh uh the vote is that the this board is determining not to carry it uh the DCR matter on an adjournment request but to await the appellet court decision of direction. That is if someone would move that motion. Okay. Motion please. I move that motion. Mr. Porro second. I'll second that motion. Okay. Um, roll call, please. Robert Blakeley, yes. Bernie Ragstad, yes. Brian Zimmerman, yes. Chairwoman John Ferman, yes. Ken Lori, yes. All right. Thank you. Motion passed and uh board may return. Yeah. Resume, right? Yeah. And thank you for Yeah. You're welcome, Mr. Yeah. I'll see you. Thanks.

Okay, now we get to the fun part of the agenda, why I think most of you are here, and that is to um have a presentation of the master plan committee's um the survey. And I'd like to invite the members who serve on the master plan to come up and join us. We have the table over here. Don't be shy. Wait a minute. have to go back. You need some cream. So, I'd like to formally welcome uh members of the town council, the environmental commission. Um who else was invited? and the public of course. So, uh, welcome and I'd just like to introduce the members. Uh, there are four members of the planning board who that have served on the master plan subcommittee. Uh in addition to myself, there's Celeste Luciano. Um Brian Zimmerman, Ronda Day, and uh then we have uh from Environmental Commission, Neil Sour Wine, Christine White House, Christy White House. Um from the public, we have Ken Lori representing the zoning board as chair, Mike Divine, Brian Romanowski, and Jenny Derek's hiding back there. Um so they'll all be here. Oh, and Dean representing town council and uh they'll be up here to help answer any questions that you may have. So, welcome. And Lindsay Knight is going to do the presentation. Presentation or planner from Neglia. All

right. All right. Good evening. To have screens here. Um so, we'll jump right into the results from the survey. No, just for the record, we have Lindseay Knight, our professional planner from Neglia Engineering. Thank you. So, the survey was available from October 1st, 2024 to November 14th, 2024. And um we received a total response um number of 1,62 people, which um in my experience is a very large number for responses. So, that was really nice. Um not all municipalities have that type of engagement. So, um, just wanted to note that that for the sake of the master plan, that was incredibly helpful. So, all those who participated, we're very grateful. Um, and of those who participated, it was obviously an overwhelming amount of residents. Over 1,000 residents participated. And as you can see, it went down to business owners, people who worked, visitors, employees of the township, and other or just no responses. Um, so one of the first questions was, "What is your favorite thing about Sparta?" Um, this graphic will display in larger fonts uh the more prevalent responses and as they get smaller um they show as they were not uh responded to us frequently. This was an open-ended question. Um so as you can see from the graphic, Lake Mohawk and White Deer Plaza were two of the biggest responses that we got. But as you start going around the graphic, you can see there is a number of other things. um such as the country feel, tranquility, a lot of responses about how beautiful um Sparta is, the small town feeling, the environment, um different qualities such as neighborhoods, green spaces, quaint, um their hometown. We got a lot of responses saying the library, which was

which was nice to see as well. Um, so next question after we talked about the good, we wanted to get into the bad and what was the thing that people wanted to see improve the most in Sparta and traffic became the uh strongest trend that we saw in this question. Next, it was followed by limited development, preserve land, uh more community facilities. We saw things like outdoor recreational spaces, dog parks, splash pads. Um, we also saw a lot of interest in walkability, not just through the downtown, but making connections from town center to the downtown, more sidewalks, bike lanes, things like that that made it easier to make those connections throughout the town. Um, we also saw a lot of more diverse shopping and dining. A lot of people emphasized they wanted to see a lot of small businesses, unique businesses, less chains, um, things that were kind of special to Sparta. And then finally at the bottom we saw adaptive reuse um which I kind of cup together with redevelopment rehabilitation and that is kind of reusing the spaces in the buildings that already exist that maybe have been underutilized and finding new uses for them. Next we went through kind of the characteristics of the people responding and um why you chose to live here. So we went through a number of questions. The first was growing up in Sparta. So, you'll kind of get an idea of why people are living here. Um, growing up in Sparta, not many people found that as the draw of why they lived here. As we move on, you'll start seeing um quality of life. Strongly agree. People are moving here because there is a nice balance. Um, proximity to job or work. We found that that's pretty answered evenly across the board. So, people are not really moving here because it's close to their job. Um, next is the school system. Uh that was another one

that we saw a really strong correlation. Um people strongly agree with that one. Cost of living is another one that came out pretty equal. Followed by environment open space which I think kind of also goes back to that quality of life. Sparta offers a lot of options for outdoor um environmental activities. Um next was proximity to family which across the board was once again answered pretty evenly. Next, we had a map, if you remember answering this question, where you identified areas within Sparta um that were your favorite places. So, some of the places that came out um were Lake Mohawk, the boardwalk, White Deer Plaza, the library, Station Park, um Sparta Mountains, and Sparta Glenn Park. Uh we also saw a lot of people just um pointing to areas that were kind of the outdoor spaces, the different trails, the different areas to go hiking. So next we went into what place in Sparta needs the most improvement. So the first piece was Route 15. Um we saw a lot of lot of people saying traffic, dangerous intersections, congestion, um overdevelopment, all things that were related to traffic. Next, we um kind of coupled these all together. we started seeing themes and trends and we started seeing how the sidewalks and walkability. Um people desiring more of a town center, a town square or kind of a central third place meeting area in town. Um or some kind of traditional main street. Next we saw revitalize the main street um which kind of goes with that last comment. Um, a lot of people want to see those kind of downtown um, Morristowns, Ridgewoods, Montlair's or um, where they have those like walking areas, different shops, different restaurants. Um, and then once again

improved store qualities. Next, um, we saw unappealing development, incompatible development, and then adaptive reuse is something people would like to see because they, um, one of the main responses we saw a lot were buildings were going vacant, falling into disarray. Um, a lot of the buildings were going into an area where they wished redevelopment or rehabilitation would take place, where we'd utilize the existing buildings to a more efficient use. What are the landmarks in Sparta? Um, we found Lake Mohawk, White Deer Plaza, and Sparta Glenn to um have the top answers for that. Next, we started going into the walkability in Sparta. Um, as you saw in the earlier questions, that kind of was a trend that came pretty strongly. Um, people did not find Sparta as very walkable. um people kind of rely pretty heavily on um on uh their personal vehicles. So using other vehicles, you can see that was a pretty even uh response here. And then next was like where are your walkable connections? And most people are just walking around their neighborhoods or the town centers. Um and that's where they want to see the most connections. So maybe a connection from your neighborhood to that town center area. Thank you. On a scale from one to five, how much do you like Sparta Town Center? Um, one being not very much and five being I absolutely love it. We kind of saw landing somewhere in the middle. So, people were pretty indifferent. There weren't strong feelings about this. And then we revisited the previous master plan goals and objectives to see

how relevant they are today. Um expand housing opportunities for existing and future township residents. Um overwhelming amount of people found this not to be valid. Next was preserve the township's natural resources and ecological balance within the context of permitting appropriate development based on sound planning and engineering. Um the respondents found this to be incredibly still valid. Next is provide the safe and convenient movement of vehicles and pedestrians. Still valid as well. The next three um still very much valid as you can tell from the graphics. Uh maintain existing and establish new community and recreational facilities and services to ensure a high quality of life for current and future residents. Next is safeguard the tax base, preserve the economic balance and provide for continuing source of employment and tax ratables through appropriate use of existing and potential non-residential land. And then last was ensure that the township development does not conflict with the development and general welfare of the county, neighboring municipalities, encourage coordinated regional services and conservation efforts. So, as you can see, a lot of the master plan goals and objectives still very much valid as we continue assimilate future development within reasonable and manageable time periods in relation to utility and community facility planning. Um, encourage development and redevelopment for planned growth in the identified town center consistent with historic character of the White Deer Plaza and Main Street. Um and then this last one uh not valid still uh still um excuse me no not valid was provide a range of housing types for residents of all ages and income levels consistent with fair share plan and the housing element. Next promote the planning of infrastructure expansion of improvement consistent with the land use plan and planned centers. This was kind of a mixed response although close to half of the respondents still found this to be valid.

preserve open space and farmland to accommodate the community's recreational needs to protect the natural environment and unique natural features and to enhance the rural character of Sparta. Uh this was an overwhelming still valid. So in the next 10 years, what are the what is the number one thing you would like to see the township prioritize? So we found quite a few. Um these are all ranked by what we found to be the most answered question uh most responded to. Um the number one was preserve open space and rural character. Um and as you go down the list you can see a number of different things. Um and you can kind of start sensing the trends of the respondents here and kind of what people would like to see within the township. What have you seen or experienced in other places that you would like to see in Sparta? So once again going back to that walkable downtown. um a lot of emphasis on community facilities, specifically uh splash park, pool or rec centers. We saw a lot of answers for dog parks. And then finally, attractive and diverse retail and restaurants. And I think that kind of pairs well with that walkable downtown once again. So, next we had the last question, which was, please provide any comments you'd like the township to consider as we kick off the master plan process. Um this was as you see a lot of the responses that we got in the beginning of the survey were carried through to this final an uh question. Um once again protecting the ecosystem, no overdevelopment, preserve open space, um consistent architectural and sign design. Um, I won't bore you guys and read through all of them, but um, a lot of what was answered remain true throughout the uh, throughout the survey, which will definitely help with the master plan as we move forward. And then for some reason, this

one didn't show up as well, but this was another word cloud. Um, and as you can see, once again, protect the environment, overdevelopment, traffic were three of the biggest trends that we saw throughout the survey response. Um, next we saw a lot of like design standards, a lot of um, comments about development happening in a more holistic way. Um, the designs being done in a way that match the existing um, properties and structures in town that maybe you've identified further as landmarks or things that you like um, and not designing things that don't fit in with the character of the community. Um, you can see a lot of like open space, recreational type responses. um unique retail restaurants, small businesses, um aesthetics, community events. Seemed like a lot of people are looking for that social connection as well with other members in the town. And that's really a nice thing to see as a planner. Um seeing that people are wanting that type of community as well. So the survey responses will be available on the township's website. I put the township there, um the website there, and then that is my contact information if you do have any questions um regarding the survey responses or any of the next steps in the master plan process. If Thank you, Lindsay. Yeah, not a problem. Oh, thank you. Did an excellent job in putting this together and uh presenting it. But I just want to take a moment to to recognize our planner last year, Katherine Sarmat, who had quite a bit of input into this process as well. So, um I think first we'll open it up to the board to ask whatever questions or comments that they may have and then we'll go to the public and uh the members of the subcommittee can certainly you know help uh chairwoman just I just wanted to uh on behalf of the council and the township thank all

the volunteers everyone on the master plan subcommittee for getting us through last year and getting this far along and I know it takes a lot of time and effort um and we're we're getting there. We're doing good. We're uh pretty far along. I'm looking forward to the rest of this year and bringing this home. But I just wanted to express the thanks for everyone for all this hard work last year and getting to here. Thank you. I guess before opening it up, we should talk a little bit about next steps. Um at least it wasn't something I can't No problem. Um we're going to continue with the community outreach. This was just the first phase and it was a big phase, but um the subcommittee did a great job of identifying Oh, sure. The subcommittee did a It's not that loud. Subcommittee did a great job of identifying various focus groups. I think we have about 12 focus groups uh established and uh we're going to go out and meet with each of those focus groups and ask questions, help them have them look at the goals and the goals really shouldn't change. The goals should be consistent. We might add some new ones, but help to develop some of the objectives. You know, how what else should we be looking at and and ask a lot of we're forming the questions that we will be asking them. Um and then we'll go also to the general uh public as well, the general community. Uh we also authorized um some research and studies to be done. One is the situational analysis, the background like population trends, housing characteristics, employment, schools, the inventory of existing businesses, etc. Um we're also going to be completing the land use element and then uh the affordable housing uh element which is being done by town council will also be incorporated into the master plan. And then the last uh part that we're working on between now and the

summer is the circulation element plan which is um transportation network. It includes the roads, the public transit, pedestrians and bicycle paths etc. So those will be the four elements that we'll be focusing on in the coming months. So we have a lot of work to do but we're eager to do it. Um, okay. Board. I mean, I guess uh I'm encouraged by all the public um feedback and I would just kind of like to take the opportunity to remind the public, whoever might be watching or reading this afterwards. Um, this is your town. We're here to represent you. Uh and to that end, you know, any issues or things that you'd like to see, this is we're we're coming up with uh what the town should look like in the future and we have good guidelines, but if if we don't all kind of pitch in where we can, the town's going to grow um however it's going to grow due to the pressures it's going to receive. So, I'm looking for positive pressure for the people that um are willing to um exert it and I'm happy to kind of catch up with people offline um if needed just to kind of help further that effort. But I appreciate everything the master plan is doing. And it's I'm encouraged because it's about time. It it seems like this is the best thing that we can do to kind of show we know what we want our town to be. And um so thanks. I don't think there was any surprises in this in this uh survey and that's really good. Um you know this I I I think this is what you this is what you

saw in the last two election cycles. You saw people in the town say, "We want to maintain Sparta. We want to keep it the way it is, and we want to enhance the way it is. We don't want massive change." And that's the reason we moved here, and that's the reason we live here. And uh I'm just glad that's that's what the survey said because that's what I certainly believe in. Thank you, Rob. Did you say anything? No, I'm good. Ron, I just want to this last year. Just want I want to compliment the team that put this together. I know this has been a three-year process to get this far. I think in 23 we you know we picked the team um in 24 we rolled up our sleeves and we met monthly uh every every month sometimes twice a month and we would we'd be here for four to five hours and just everyone on the team just that the the amount of of of information and thoughts that you all volunteer and contribute is just terrific. So so thank you to the whole team. I'm a new member to the team, so getting uh my feet wet. But I want to thank Lindsay for putting together the presentation came out great. And I love the responses. I love how it highlights what uh the the public um loves about Sparta and to continue moving forward in that direction. Thank you. Um, in viewing the pres presentation, you know, the the one thing that I did take from it was that current master plan that we're working on or we're working from, uh, I think most people think it it still is heading in the right direction. We just need to tweak it. Um, you know, uh, every decade brings a new challenge with with, um, and, uh, I think this is a great opportunity to do that. And I I really think, you know, as everyone has said, the group has done a uh a tremendous job of of putting all these thoughts

together, and I I I couldn't help just pretty much nod my head in in Yeah, I agree with every every single thing there. So, thank you, Ditto. Um yes, thank you to everyone who's been uh so involved. Um the one um item that I had thought that we should mention is that that green acres presentation that we all saw here a few months back. I'm assuming that all of that is being incorporated into the master plan. Yes, there will be more elements. I I was just um highlighting the ones that we're going to be doing coming up, but that you're correct that one is already done and that is one of the elements. So good point. Open space. Open space. Good. Thank you. Like to maybe hear from town council and subcommittee members. They would like to say anything before to the public. Just like to just reemphasize that this is just part of the long process. There's a whole process laid out uh for engagement. Engagement is critical with the community. This is a key first step. Uh as was mentioned though, there's going to be focus groups. um dozens with all different stakeholders and then general ones as well. So as we go through the next number of months uh please do participate. It's critical and that way we can round out either validate or update what we found just in the survey so far. Thank you. Um, as third generation here in Sparta, being born and raised, as some of the other people I know in this room, it's uh it's it's very very it's really gets to my heart to see this because that is why everyone moved here many many decades ago and uh to keep it the way it is and we are a a special

place in New Jersey and in Sussex County and that's the way that we want to keep it. So, thank you all. It's it's long overdue, but the people still want to keep it the same way as we saw in the survey. So, thank everybody for all their efforts. Anybody from the subcommittee? Just like to thank you, Joan, Celeste, and Ron for all your hard work. And can you use the mic, please? I would like to thank you Joan, Celeste, and Ron for all your leadership over the last couple of years in the process and of course all the subcommittee members and I'm very proud to be part of the whole process. We've got a good team. Very good. You have an excellent group. Yeah, let I got second thoughts about whether I should go into this, but let I think the committee knows what I'm going to say and I got to make it clear that this is my personal opinion. And I know there's disagreement on the subcommittee, but I think it's important enough to make it a public comment. As I step back and look at all the goals and so forth that we've outlined, I agree 100%. As Councilman Scott said, there's not a lot of surprises here, which is reasonable and good. I was a part of the last major update to the master plan. So, I'm not surprised either. If I characterize all the things the goals that we're looking at, I think that most of them while they're very worthy and desirable and certainly qualify as goals, I don't see them as time sensitive. I don't see that there is an urgency to do it. I think it's something we should use as focusing our efforts as we improve the town going forward. with one exception traffic which is a personal whatever of mine came out as a high high intensity concern and I think it's time sensitive

in the sense that the planning board the zoning board and the council are going to make decisions near future and continuing that can make the solution of the traffic problem much more difficult over time. So when this plan comes out six months from now or whatever and gets implemented over time, we may in a sense be overcome by events and that we've made our traffic solution much more difficult than it is today. I recognize the circumstances we're in. I know the lawsuits. I know uh the difficulty of looking for alternative paths. I know we need to get the state involved, etc., etc. A lot of things make it very difficult to come up with a real solution to traffic. And I'm thinking mostly Route 15. I'm just concerned that we can't let near-term decisions without having making that a priority. I don't want to let that slip so that by the time this plan comes out, we put ourselves in a much more difficult circumstance. And to just be very bold, I don't I'm not claiming this is realistic or whatever. I'd almost suggest our boards, pasadorans, whatever, characterize the impact on traffic as a what's the right word for a a permitted use or a conditional use to make that a top consideration. If you come in with looking for a permitted use for a development, we need to know clearly scientifically what's the impact on traffic and maybe possibly make that a criterion for whether it's permitted or falls back to uh whatever the other words are. So that's my piece and again it's kind of my own views. I've been involved with all this stuff for a long time and I just see traffic getting steadily worse and worse and I

would like to call a halt to it if we can and and get put something in place so that the focus of our boards to the extent that's legal and possible with ordinance cons consistent. Let's make sure that we don't inadvertently worsen our traffic situation before we get to the point where we start to live by this plan. That's that's my two cents. Thank you. If I could add, excellent point, uh, Mike, the there's a leading case in New Jersey called the Dunkin Donut case on traffic. And what that case says is that if you permit the use in that zone, it's presumed that the traffic is okay. Right. And that's what you're alluding to. So, that was very astute of you. I'm complimenting you on your analysis because the court has recognized that philosophy. If you say it's a permitted zoo use, it's presumed traffic comes with it. So, uh, yeah, just like to call it, you know, get it explicitly out there in front of the board and the public. So, see what happens. And just quickly for the the Dunkin Donut case was it was a strip center where there was a Dunkin Donuts and it was a permitted use and they opened up and then traffic the board denied it saying that it would create too much traffic and the uh the court reversed saying that it was a permitted use. It's that has gone out. Now there are still public health safety and welfare issues whether you want to have a drive-thru whether you want to limit hours. So you still have some power but uh you are correct that the use comes with traffic. Thank you. Thanks. Let just add a comment on that too. So I don't disagree with you Mike. Um the fact is the last number of ordinances that were modified um coming from the planning board and approved by the council um have embedded in there three new studies that need to be submitted by the applicant. Maybe you're familiar with it. One of them is a traffic study. So for the PDRM2 zone,

which is the latest one we did, and other zones that were updated more recently, um an element of traffic study and um requirements were put into those at least in the short term. That should be helpful before we get to do a whole master plan. Thanks, Dean. And I'm somewhat aware of that. As I said at one earlier meeting, I did I saw the requirements for studies and I don't want to get off on a tangent. I didn't see strict criteria that said give us a study, but if you don't meet ABCDE, you're not you can't proceed. Maybe they're in there and I missed it, but I did I saw a study required, but I didn't see the impact of failing the study or failing the criteria. Yeah, I I don't want to quote them now. I'm not an expert in them, but I will say that there were levels of service requirements and changes that were noted in there in pretty great detail. Um, but I don't want to quote anything past that about whether that was a complete black and white, yes or no, or that was something that the planning board could consider. So, it's somewhere in that range. Thanks, Dean. Sorry, just one really quick. Um, just to expand, I don't think I'm going to get an answer on this right now. Um, but is there anything that the council can do in terms of getting in touch with the DOT and and having them reassess um 15 now that we have better data on what's going on in the North Village area because I believe the last time that was actually really done on their level was prior to that development. So, if there's something that that you guys can do on the council level, I I believe that's what I heard. I may be I I maybe have heard wrong, but um if there's an outreach that can happen that that that would help us greatly in our process. Yeah, I mean that's obviously a large long-term discussion around desiraability of expanding it, whether that's in the best interest of the township versus other mechanisms and other approaches to uh limit traffic. But I think there's always a time to go back. I don't think it's ever closed for

good. Um so perhaps I mean we've had studies and studies over the years. This is not this new one isn't earthshattering, right? We all know there's traffic there, right? Um but I think there's a time to do that and the council could consider that. I don't want to commit on behalf of the council tonight. No, no, I know. Thanks. To your to your point, Celeste, if I could, I was on a planning board when North Village or whatever it's called got approved. There was a ton of conversation about trafficking. Everybody recognized the implications. And Chris Quinn actually reminded me of this recently. At that point, the state was committed to a bypass or to something. I forget what. And then part of our reason, in my recollection, part of a reason why we accepted North Village per se without further conversation about traffic was the expectation the state was going to help us do something and subsequently that disappeared. So if we can go back to the state in in some right context and remind them it's at least worth I don't know what what it might cause but it's worth putting on the table I think to your point. So it proceeded with the expected contingency that never followed through. So I just want to piggyback on what Celeste said and then just kind of underscore that um I have familiarity with with experts um presenting findings and uh as as we go forward and kind of you know get something good and perfect it um that you know it's good to have traffic studies uh environmental impact studies but we need to kind of um define what we not and I think my preference because I think North Village might have been uh applicant supplied traffic study. Um so I I think there's an importance to ensuring

um independent review um from applicants uh presenting their um their plans because you know we can hear engineering reports and everything. I mean there was a recent the pops bagels right we had we had a duly sworn an engineer who spoke to traffic but as I understand it planning board is is here to kind of say yes you're an expert but we're very familiar with these roads we're intimately familiar with you know oh it would be terrible if you turn left out of that you know so I just I just want to make sure that uh we're considering that when we step applicants through these requirements that we go a little bit farther and say it needs to be an independent expert. Um, not anyway. I don't know how we do that, but we have we have one. We have one. Yeah, we can hire Neglia and as I said earlier, one of the first pieces we're going to do is the circulation study. Um, so we get that in place, but um based on what I'm hearing, it's we also need to look at use because as what Ken said is if the use is there, it assumes that it's going to take parking with it. So, we should be looking at um use in each of the different zones as we're working through the master plan and uh perhaps making recommendations regarding that. And yeah, I know we we have Neglia um for traffic, I'm just saying in the past in reviewing some of this, it looks like applicants provided a lot of those expert um opinions. So, Mr. Yes. If something in is a permitted use that doesn't that assume that that that traffic cannot be considered in the

decision? Traffic can always be considered. Okay. Uh as I had said public health, safety and welfare if the Dunkin Donuts uh is a permitted use, but doesn't mean that you have to have that permitted use open 24/7. uh that you still have time, place, and manner. Uh that's uh reasonable. Again, public health, safety, and welfare. It may be that that permitted use should not have a drive-thru. Uh that uh you may have a restaurant that is permitted, but you limit the amount of tables. Uh so there are a permitted use doesn't give cart blanch. uh but if something is a permitted use and comes planning for it and they are reasonable uh the applicant you should be reasonable uh but if a applicant I think as uh Mr. Otto was saying that if they come in with the traffic study that says the current condition is an F condition and it's not going to make it any worse well it's an F condition. Uh so you know we have to have an element I think as Rob said that if you know in community you can't make a left-hand turn there that you have to use a level of common sense of public health safety and welfare. Thank you. I'm going to add just one one thing and I apologize but again I don't want people walking away thinking that that we don't look at it because you know when you look at what was done in the economic development zone uh ordinance you look at what we did on PDM1 PDRM 2 there are traffic standards in there that says show us that you meet these and it helps us define is it proper use or not so that data is there and it is being looked at can it be better absolutely but but it is being looked Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that it was not considered. I'm just trying to emphasize it a little bit more. Maybe.

Mr. Porro, if I could just better understand the implications of the Dunkin Donuts case that you mentioned. Um I think you said that um if the use is permitted then there's a presumption that the board has accepted the use would not have an impact on traffic. Is that a rebuttable presumption or did I misunderstand the implications in the first place? I think you've got a little uh it's it's a permitted there is a presumption that the traffic the when it was approved that the traffic has a use it comes with it. Now that's the difference between the planning board and the board of adjustment. We only we being the planning board only hear permitted uses. You know you will hear subdivision and those issues but board of adjustment you actually have the harder job uh because you are changing uses of which the master plan is contrary to the master plan and I compliment you all. A lot of communities do not uh update their master plans as often. Uh some communities have 30 years since they've looked at it plus and I know you've been in in the process for 41 now. they've been looking at it the last three years, which is admirable. So again, if the master plan, I'd like to see it from a legal perspective sooner than later because that gives us guidance. Uh, so if you want to change uses that aren't permitted because of public health safety, because of the survey, uh, because of traffic studies you're getting, I'd rather have that data now because the court doesn't want to, bless you, doesn't want to interfere with your community, but the court will say, how current is your master plan? How current are the traffic studies? How current are your efforts? Uh uh so so okay but um uh perhaps I haven't asked

my question properly. Um if the township says that a particular use is permitted um I almost question what is the point of a traffic study given the Dunkin Donuts decision which apparently means that you approved it as a useo the traffic you approved the traffic. Yeah, you're you're uh you're going to the extreme of that. Let's say a restaurant is approved as permitted use. If it's 1,000 square feet and your parking requirements and your traffic is X. If it's 5,000 square feet, it's Y. If it's 10,000 square feet, it's Z. So, same thing with office buildings, warehouses, and the like. Just because it's a permitted use, we still have to constrain the size and operation in conformity with your roadways and public health, safety, and welfare. Something that was a permitted use in the past may not function currently, and that's why you reexamine your master plan. And that's why I'd like to have it sooner than later because now you have the most current data. And when the court reviews it, they give very good difference to that because it's a current document. Okay. So it's there's a presumption that it's okay but there's a presumption that that use now let's say like even height the height may be permitted but if it's over 10% now it goes to the board of adjustment it's a Dvariance so things in dimminimous things the Dunkin Donuts case is okay if the magnitude again on the Dunkin Donuts case does it have a drive-thru does it have a walk up does it have 247 so even in the Dunkin Donuts case is saying if it's a permitted use, you just can't say it's traffic is the problem. If it's a permitted use, but because of the drive up, because of the hours of operation, because of the size

of the Dunkin Donuts, it doesn't fit even though it's a permitted use, I believe the board would have the power to at least amend that or object to it. Okay. Uh thank you for that. And I think one thing I should mention that hasn't been mentioned here uh and particularly for the benefit of the public who may be listening in. I'm sure all of you and the members of the planning board know this, but the job of the um um subcommittee is to make a recommendation of a master plan which will be submitted to the planning board for either adoption or a modification or rejection. uh but I just didn't want the public to think that there's a group of people who are going to decide uh who are not elected officials etc. Uh it will be ultimately up to the planning board to make a decision regarding an ultimate recommendation that we'll make. And if I could just add to that the board of adjustment is one of the purest boards because you're considered class four members. You are not elected officials. You are not meant to be elected officials. So, this subcommittee is uh again the more resonance the better as far as the eyes of the court. Thank you. To expand on what Brian Brian just said, can can you make all your uses conditional uses and that way you always have a traffic study in your hand when you make your decision? I there's a level of uh practicality. I we have a a very good uh land use director here in Dory and uh you know to put condition you do it yes uh is it functional it would be difficult for the community because then if your goals are to have certain development let's say a data center a data center is a great ratable for those in the data center is kind of the cloud that's where we have

storage of and uh more and more important very little traffic, uh, great ratable. So, a lot of municipalities like data centers. So, if you put too many conditions on the data center, is that going to delay it that someone will go to another community? So, those uses that you want, uh, let's say you want residential development. Uh, normally the community, they'll say we want X units per acre. So it's called the density the the more density the more developers like because they can make more money. So you have a balance of what is your if you're looking to get more residential units you may want to encourage more density. U so you can put the conditions but that would hinder if that's a goal of development. And Ken, just to bring it back to the master plan as well, there will be a circulation element where it will identify if there are uses or areas that are where um traffic is specifically identified. Um in addition, there's also a land use element. So within that as well, you can identify um you could use it trip generation information and things like that to identify uses that may cause more trips or less trips. and those can be um suggestions of amendments to your ordinance. So, this can be covered within the master plan as well. Data centers were never considered. They're nowhere in the master plan because years ago, we didn't have data centers. We just maybe have to look at the mix of uses and start to change some of the mixes based on and not just traffic, but what kind of traffic I just wanted to throw in because you've brought that up and uh I'm looking into that too. I know that the planner and

our attorney are uh you know C data centers is pretty favorable. I can see that you know uh an adaptive reuse of say disused office buildings postcoid. That makes total sense to me. um topic for later discussion obviously, but just want to put a pin in it because I I think that they're pretty resource intensive like for sure uh off-site trip generation is nothing right but electricity electrical grid uh water usage my understanding is they're pretty intensive but we can you know we I mean I was uh before I came here I was general counsel in the town of Caucus uh for almost 10 years and they have three data centers. They're really amazing. They have solar panels. They uh utilize water energy. They have their own batteries. They have they are the true cloud on the ground. Uh because if god forbid there's a tragedy, uh they really uh popped up after 911 because the these are locations where god forbid there is uh a tragedy. The data the cloud data is saved at these locations. So yes, good conversation for another uh part of the process. Yes. Anybody else? I just add one more thing. I want to make it clear that my comment should not be construed as a criticism of any boards. I complimented you. Yeah, I know. But I I mean it's not like nobody recognizes this traffic except me obviously. I just thought it was worth emphasizing, but I I appreciate traffic. What? And then I have 10 more points I'd like to make. If I don't like travel, I have to tell you when we sat down um at I guess two meetings ago for the master plan, we kind of rolled up our sleeves and looked at

these,68 responses for each question. The question I believe that Mike got was the one on traffic and it had over half of all of the thousand something responses. Traffic, traffic, traffic, traffic. So that's where he's coming from, too. We'll give you like dog parks and splash pads next time. Yeah, I I would have traded. There you go. Okay. All right. Well, if uh nobody has any other further questions or comments, um we can open it up to the public. everyone. Just just your name and if you live in town. Yes. Sylvia Salone. I live here in town. Uh one of the And I'm not going to swear anyone from the public in. I don't think it's necessary at this this forum. Thank you. Okay. Well, first of all, I want to commend everyone. This is great. as a Sparta resident, one of the reasons why my family and I decided to get out of Bergen County was to come up here for the beautiful open spaces. And um when I'm not doing my day gig, my night gig or my other gig is that I am the executive director of New Jersey Forest Watch, a 501c3 organization in the state that is tasked to protect and to preserve our public open spaces. Specifically, this all began because of the logging that's happening on Sparta Mountain. So, what this survey for me really shows is the affirmation that Sparta residents want to not only maintain our open spaces, but to also enjoy them and to protect them. I want to add, we don't want our open spaces to be logged. This does not go into the definition of an open space. Um, unfortunately that's currently happening on Sparta Mountain and the

degradation that has occurred that our group has witnessed and we've documented with PhD forest ecologists that are not associated with any kind of financial um benefit from the logging um will also attest to that. And so I encourage each and every one of us here to protect and to preserve areas like Sparta Mountain, Sparta Glenn. We saw that as being very important. Many of these areas are open space that were preserved through our own tax dollars. Green acres. Sparta Mountain is 100% green acres funded. And we don't want to see our green acres lands being logged in the state. Now, just because the D manages these lands, we need to hold them accountable. If it were any other business and somebody does a bad job, what do we do? We fire them. right now. It's a little complicated, but I would love to be able to fire the state and say you're not managing Sparta Mountain in a way that is ecological, in a way that honors the true um purpose for green acres, right? Degradation of ecological resources should not be happening, especially with the climate crisis that we are in. So, I wanted to encourage each and every one of us to continue to fight for our open spaces and to protect and preserve them so that our children's children have places to go and to recreate and we can also ensure our water supply and a clean air for all of us to breathe. Thank you. Thank you very much. Good evening, Kathy Ebanows and Scutters Roads, Sparta. First, I wanted to just thank

you all for the time and effort that you put into this survey, this presentation tonight. I know it wasn't a small amount of time and effort. So, I just want to say thank you for that. I am indeed encouraged by the results and also share them that that you know keeping open space and green space is is really a key part of this community. So I second and third that and whatever else that um one question I have is uh something that was brought up what I thought I heard someone mention uh during the presentation I just wanted to kind of double click on and that was um the mention of 12 focus groups regarding the subcommittee. So I wanted to understand more about that and you know are there openings for those focus groups and what are they focused on? Jenny who's also a member of our uh subcommittee I think put the focus groups together and listed them. So I'd like to maybe uh give that to you. So the groups that I just pulled together um from my experience in working in the community and looking around in the community and knowing the different organizations were there was two purposes to it. First was to identify some of the uh groups that would have um specific comments relating to the job that they do for the community. So for example, one of the the the first focus group has three different organizations, the police, the fire and EMS, ambulance, ambulance. And then we go to board of education and superintendent and school administrators. So that's to give you an idea of what some of those focus groups look like. And then there were a whole host of other um groups that that I just put down on paper because I knew they were groups of people that gather together in the community and might be interested. They're already interested

in their community for a certain reason and might be a contact point to bring folks into a larger group meeting. So there might be we we envisioned maybe having some um different areas uh you know set up around a room where we could invite 50 100 people or more in and and each of us manning a station that discussed traffic, water, uh you know development or you know what changes we'd like to have. And so that list is quite extensive. you know, everything from Sussex County Bird Club to the photography club to scouts and uh you know, I mean, sorry, the women's clubs and and the the different so if we look at the Lake Mohawk Country Club for example, there's two different groups. So, you have the trustees and the organiz organization part of Lake Mohawk and then you have the membership. And so it's a way to um we spoke about the 12 groups and those are the specific like I said the um the the police, the fire, the schools and so on and the business um economic development business development committee and the um chamber of commerce for example or another two groups. Um but then the other the other sections would we would open it up to larger group meetings once we get through these smaller one-on-one type of um sitdown meetings um and pull information from what do the police need? What do the schools need? What do they see going forward? What are some of the pinch points for them? And then we take that and we come out to the community and say here's what we've got so far. What do you think? Let us know. And so that's what I think. Do I have that right? Okay. Is that good? Okay. Hi, Dean Rhyau. Been here 42 years and

I'm originally from Bergen County and glad I escaped. Um, Route 17 for Route 15, 208. Um, basically I mean I since I've been up here a long time I used to commute from Sparta to Wall Street and I find it interesting the state did surveys I mean literally where they stopped me on route 280 to fill out this form and say where are you coming from? I know at one point New Jersey actually was interested in doing something just like the Sparta W um the YMCA in Hardist about 2530 years ago they talked about putting in a recreational facility in what I call lower Sussex County Sparta Byum and over Green Township but they ultimately elected and they never sent a survey. it went up to hardest which I kind of think was a mistake but um I rather see two of them just in terms of looking at I I think it's been a a great survey and a great response and I'm not surprised the way it shows but one thing in terms of looking at the recreational space I think that for what's been done for children in town is amazing I look at a lot of our money went to astroturf and I don't like it because it's a petroleumbased product um But how about the seniors and the people that might need that may not be able to afford a health club um or join a lake, but they now have them in Carney and in various towns. They're like outside fitness pieces of equipment that they can do their stretches and they can move their body a little bit with assistance and it's not going to cost them anything. And I think that's really something with would be very complimentary to see in one of our parks and when you're doing some planning point. Seniors are one of the groups on the list as well. One of the focus groups. Yeah.

Good evening. Barbara Gomes. I don't have to say my address. I just I'm a resident of Sparta for 25 years. I swear. Um, I just want to say I'm a really proud resident tonight. This has been wonderful to hear the results. Um, and but more wonderful to see the community engagement. It reminds me of I don't know three years ago when uh the community really stood together and showed showed each other what we're made of, the fabric that we're made of. So, watching the boards tonight even interact with each other is is a pleasure. Um, especially I I I do know how hard that uh that you're working as a volunteer and um I think it may be helpful to hear that from this side of the room sometimes. Um so anyway, enough of that. Um so my question is if the um Highlands Water Protection Regional Council has been invited to uh participate in the survey or give their presentation. And I know that there was some talk about that at the last meeting and what is the process for them to come in and do that cuz I'm very interested as a resident in knowing how they um look at the water resources that maybe we're not considering or maybe that we don't know how to consider. Maybe they have some things already done for for us ordinances for this kind of area that might look at parcels that are over the aquafer and say oops no definitely no data center there. that would be a bad use. Um, but you know, these are just uh questions I have because you guys are very thoughtful and you're doing the work and I think maybe the regional council is helpful for towns who have not been able to consider these things and maybe we've collected a lot of this stuff already and are doing a great job. But I would just love to know that in the time that we have that we're considering this that we looked at all the options and have the best

protections for our residents. Thank you. Thank you. That that's a good point because we did say at our last meeting that we were going to invite the Highlands in as well as the county to hear the pros and cons from each one for the state plan crossceptance process and that's what we had intended to do. Um but in the meantime there something else had occurred and maybe there was a deadline. I don't know. But uh the town council did address it and they decided that they were going to go with the county. So, we don't have anybody here tonight, but I don't see why we still can't hear from them. Um, and I'd like to, you know, get see what the board would like to do about bringing them back and just hearing their views on um as exactly what you said. Um, and the county as well and just it'd be just be good information for this whole process. And and I understand I don't you guys understand more than I do but from what I think I understand the state plan is great for the state but we have a very sensitive environmental region that we have a very interested community in um in the water protection and so just getting that information just exploring it would feel good that we left no stone unturned. So, the town council did pass that last week, but I want you to know that that by p by being part of the state or aligning ourselves with the state master plan and the county master plan, that does not preclude us in any way, shape, or form from participating with the Highlands Council and aligning oursel with that plan. Also, excellent. That's great clarification. We haven't eliminated any possibilities. We just had a couple things to do. We got a couple things to do in the meantime. So I guess the second part of my question then is what is your process since you talked about this at the last meeting wanting

to bring them in? Like what does that mean? Who calls them? Do you want me to call them? No. Um can I be helpful in that way? Um who schedules them and and how can we communicate that to the public? Because again I think they would be interested in hearing that as well as part of this valant effort that you guys are all doing. Well, we'd like to bring them back as part of uh at least my recommendation is as part of the a meeting, a public process, and we have a board secretary who could contact them and invite them and make it as part of our regular agenda should the board wish to do that. And also just as part of the master plan study, um we do have to look at all planning documents that are applicable to the township. So that includes looking at the state plan, any county plans as well as the Highlands uh preservation. we will have to look at their plans and as part of um adopting the plan it does get sent to all of those agencies as well. So they will then have an opportunity as well to read the document and and give us any input as well. Madam Chair, if I if I'm if I'm recollecting correctly, one of the one of the things that had stopped that process was the grant that we were working on. Um no, no, no. the grant that we were working on for for master plan funds that um the Highlands I believe came back and and had asked us to look at the planning area the planned area of Sparta to see whether or not that would be in alignment and I believe that there was correct me if I'm wrong uh Dean there was a portion of those funds that they were looking to earmark for that process I think that's what kind of held up um in the in the past yeah bringing bringing them you fully on board. But to your point, all of those things and I and I know previously because this is the what the way Katherine was was moving and I'm assuming that Lindsay, you know, was going to is going to pick up the mantle. Every element that gets looked at has to be comparatively, you know, looked at to

see what the best options are. So even if we don't fully opt into the regional master plan, I'm sure the intention is to kind of get as close as possible so that all the preservation that we can manifest, you know, safely and and effectively happens happens and happens well. I mean that that would be my intention and and my, you know, my movement forward. One of the things that I was hoping um that the subcommittee would really kind of focus in on when we got to those elements, we're just not there yet. We're we're just at the point now of talking to stakeholder groups and getting the information out there. But Lindsay is going to be diving into the weeds um any day now if she hasn't already. I'm sure it's my recollection that it was about 15% of the grant though. So the Highlands was going to be giving us a grant for to cover the cost of the master plan or part of the cost of the master plan itself. the cost of the professionals and so on, but that they were going to require that there was a hold back of 10 to 15% of that money to evaluate whether Sparta how Sparta um would relate to uh how it would work for Sparta to become part of the regional master plan. Um they wanted to do that study in order for us to get the grant money which I don't think we said we we didn't want them to do. we sort of no we didn't determine that and it was also the money was for the assessment to take place upfront not a commitment to opt into the planning area um so my my question is so we had the highlands council here as you all know right last year I believe to do a presentation talk to us about all that um so for the next steps I mean there's two different tracks here that I'm hearing one is to have them come back and publicly give another presentation the other track which I think is more critical is that the subcommittee use talks to them andor gets data from them that informs the work that's going to

happen in creating the master plan right and that that's critical that that is ingrained in that um whether they come back here at a certain point do another presentation that's nice but I think more importantly is that the subcommittee has access to them and has the data so that informs the master plan that's being proposed right I mean what I thought I heard from John though was that we Did I get it right that that you were kind of saying if we wanted to reach out to them if this if this I took it back from speaking master planning because Barbara was asking about the cross acceptance process. She was to referencing the if I'm correct the last meeting and then saying where did it go right so I pulled it back a little and said for the cross acceptance process it can't hurt to have see what kind of um information they could give us what kind of protections they have and uh you I I don't think there are any restrictions in making a recommendation to town council at that point whether hey we think highlands will be good or we think county will be good but just hear from them both because as a planning board never had that opportunity. It was our intention. Do you know if there is a time clock on this because there I think there's there is um what's the word I'm looking for? But I think there's an affordable housing element to it too. And there's many towns now that are trying to conform to the regional water protection master plan. So yeah, I wanted to kind of throw that in because uh we're in the Highlands. Um so I would want to at least get the information. So I was kind of going to say if if we need to just take a vote to invite them, I would kind of urge that we do that because I think the Mount Laurel numbers time is of the essence, right? And um just to a greater point,

we've we've heard about open space and how um you know, well, our numbers I think are dictated by more of a regional assessment, but we all know again, we live here in Sparta that sometimes our open space isn't truly open space as it might be in other communities. steep slopes, recharge areas, um sensitive areas and these are people Highlands Council um that have particular expertise in those uh regional ecosystems and then specific expertise in I think uh helping to quantify um you know what's the reality of the open space that we have within Sparta because my guess um my hunch is that While we do technically have a lot of open space, actually development wise, it's not a lot of open space. Uh we don't want to encumber a lot of this space because we rely on the subsurface waters um for our very livelihood. So, you know, I would just again I if there was a motion to be made to at least invite them, my understanding is it's totally optional and I thought we could opt out if we ever did go with them, but um I'll leave it to you guys. So, to a couple things. So the housing element which is being done as your fair share plan and housing element which is being done by another planner who um there's a couple things your number that you were given of your perspective need is based on a three-factor calculation that DCA um had done. The first piece is going to be the change in income um since the previous round. The second factor which is your non-residential tax assessment. So that's the valuation of non-residential properties and the changes that occurred between that. The

third piece was your land capacity which many towns um went and objected to because when the DCA mapping came out um they found flaws within the mapping system. So like you said I had towns where there were Rossy sites, there were um interchanges on the freeways um single family homes, rear yards, things like that. So that's where um some of these numbers were able to be challenged. Um but because it is a three-factor system, it wasn't really changing the numbers that much. But now the second piece is your planner is going to go through and do your housing element. And like you said, they're going to do what is called a vacant land adjustment. So they are going to look through all of the vacant land within the municipality to determine if any of this is actually developable. And so part of that is you look at different mapping systems. um you look at NJD mapping, you look at FEMA mapping, um and you kind of start whittling down that list of all vacant land to a point where you find if lands can actually be developed on. So that's where you do this whole analysis of anything that's determined vacant and you go parcel by parcel to determine if there is actually realistic development opportunities. So that's the first piece. then your planner is going to go and do a realistic development potential number which is going to change your number hopefully a little bit more and that is showing that the realistic development that's going to take place over the next 10 years. So any projects that are in the pipeline any projects from the previous round that carried over things like that. So typically your number that you were given by DCA as your perspective need once this um kind of exercise is done will most likely be different than what your perspective need originally was. I don't know. I'm not working on that, so I can't speak to specifics, but um the housing element, which is part of the master plan, will also be changing that and it will take into account a lot of the things that

you have spoken about as well. And it'll it'll kind of doing that um vacant land analysis will really dig into why properties cannot be developed on. Um just and just to clarify, so so I'm pretty close to that process that the council's going through with the planner, any lawyers. So just to circle back to Rob's comment, having um the Highlands Council or anyone come in now and talk about water quality or other things u won't affect the number that we were given as a town, the number that um we carefully reduced into a a more perfect number that we then submitted. And then this next few months of process that's happening now with some challenges and everything and where we wind up won't be affected by the Highlands Council or anybody coming in and talking about water quality or anything. That's totally a separate process. Not saying shouldn't do it, but that's not going to affect the housing number affordable housing wise. I'm also hearing that sounds like we should look at Rossi again. Um, and then the other the other item as well is maybe as we go through these stakeholder meetings, maybe that is when we contact Highlands and that's kind of when we speak to them as well. Um, but I think we're going to have open communication with them during the master plan. Um, I did the master plan for the mealands and during that process we were constantly um, in talks with the 13 municipalities and the county and the state as well. So it's definitely an open process because it's a document that affects everyone. I think we also need to focus on you know we're here to protect smart you know and understand that uh other groups who whoever they are on the outside aren't aren't uh interested in in their objectives and not necessarily ours. So we had we had a guard against that. the first person from the public that spoke here talk about Sparta Mountain and the green and it being a Greenacres

project. By Greenacres taking that over, we've lost complete control over that area town and it's now um they they do what they want. That's the state D is has all the say. We have none. So that's that's that's another thing we need to take into consideration and understand that we want to as we go forward and we bring other groups in or we partner with other groups, we want to make sure that they're aligned with with our goals. We want to hear Good evening board members. My name is Joe Erdully. I'm actually a resident of Andover Township. I'm here for multiple reasons, but uh this was very interesting to me. One, I uh personally sit on the land use board over in Andover Township. The land use board is a combination of the zoning and the planning boards. I also happen to be the chairperson for our master plan update, which we've just completed. We're about to have our public hearing in just a couple weeks. So it was very interesting to see this particular uh thing particular uh presentation to see how aligned our surveys were. It was very much we are very much not different from Sparta. Sparta is not different from Andover Township. Uh there were a couple differences but there's a couple things I do want to point out from there. Um one again the similarity was was quite amazing. the the open space, the keeping the nature, keeping the uh the rural nature of our towns was was absolutely key. Um walkability. One of the things that actually came up in regards to walkability, we're not a very walkable town and we don't anticipate that. We know that's going to be a challenge, although that was asked of us. We're also a big bikeability town. We get a lot of bikers from out of the area that come over and hang out. Uh they park themselves over Kittatini and they ride in our town. But we've also

noticed that they ride into Sparta, they ride into Newton. So, as the subcommittee has continued to work this, as you get into that circulation plan, what I would like to personally ask is see if we can't team up somehow in regards to that biking ability and see if we can't come up with some safer paths because if you've seen the bikers on the road, they're on our major roads and they they it's a challenge sometimes, but if we could come together on that and come up with some bike paths between our towns and again, we border five towns. We have t five towns around us. We would love to partner with all those towns to see if we can help these bikers who come into our town and support our towns as well as your own. Uh in regards to traffic, we don't have the route 15 issue, although we all probably travel it. Um Newton Spar Road is our traffic issue. But one thing I want to point out and make sure that everybody's aware of, uh Andover Township, uh is actually getting the rail station. It's been uh been in the works for 20 years. Um, but they've actually started working on it and it's anticipated to open up in uh 2026 at some time. I don't have the timing on that, but that's what's planned. So, I want to make sure everybody's aware that there will be a train station into the city uh that will be stationed uh Roseville Avenue in uh Andover Township. Um, and the other the only other difference I did notice is uh from a housing perspective, Andover is a is an aging town. Andover Township is an age of town. Over 50% of our uh residents are over 55 years of age. So senior housing was a major uh response that came back wanting senior housing in our towns. I didn't see that necessarily in in your survey and I thought that was a little interesting, but it might be something to consider. Uh I know that Sparta has um you know a much younger population to begin with. Um, but at

some point that younger population, if you want them to stick around and stay, are going to age as well. And we're trying to do what we can in our master plan to help people age in place and stick around. So, I just want to point out those few things and uh tell you that we're we're right there with you on that survey. And all Can I just ask you um who's your planner? Uh our planner for for your master plan? Uh Corey Corey actually uh Matt Matthew Matt Morrison has been our planner. He's with Corey um and I don't know the name of their I can't think remember the name. Don't worry. Cory Stoner. He's actually the engineer for I know Cy. Yeah. Hello. Thank you very much. There's not very many planners, so I was like I'll find them. Yeah. All right. But Matt Morrison's been the one who's been working with us. Okay. And again, our public hearing is in two weeks, April 29th, if anybody'd like to join. So, thank you for your time and uh well done to the subcommittee. I know we've been working multiple years as well. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. There is Thank you for sharing all that. It was very interesting and you did bring up a good point about um really uh working with the other towns. Uh so, not just we should be working with Andover. We should be if we're just looking at Route 15, not look at it in isolation. what's going on with Lafayette and uh the big picture. So, I know that part of our plan will be to look at the uh master plans of all of the surrounding towns working and working with the county as well. And and I know that's one of the because I've dealt with this with the county. One of the biggest problems they have with their roads because they've been there a long time. Their rightaway a lot of times is one foot off the fog line. They don't have any room to put bike lanes in, you know, because we've asked them to put them on East Shore Trail in Sparta 517 then ends up in over in your town and uh they just don't have the they don't own the land to to do it.

That's the problem. And there's a lot of bikes on the county roads. So, sir, could you give us your contact information before you leave? Thank you. I just want to also echo I appreciate you coming in because I started digging into the master plans and just planning and zoning just trying to understand it get up to speed and it seems like that big missing link is just collaboration with your neighbors. I mean we didn't we created our our boundaries but nature and you know it's it it all cuts through um these natural boundaries don't really respect uh what we've built. And so to that end, I mean, if if we can collaborate in future or present, like I think that is a no-brainer. We should be doing that. We should be engaging um at least Newton and over, you know, everyone around us um and trying to to work on a common goal. We have common threats. So, thank you. My name is Gary Tankovich. I'm a 30-year Sparta resident and um I must say I'm I'm very encouraged by the results of the the survey. The message I'm taking from this is that the overwhelmingly common denominator here is regard to the rural character and open space. And I would just urge the planning board and the council to keep that foremost in their thoughts when decisions come up as the uh process moves forward. I'm thinking specifically PDRM2. Um I would also like to present a a somewhat alternate point of view in regard to Sparta Mountain. I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that that tract is a

wildlife management area with the emphasis on management. And that's what I understand the state's objective is here is to um create a a mosaic of mature forest which is very important as well as young forest. Um, this is not the 1890s. They don't do logging. They don't do land use the way they did in the 1890s where they completely it was irrelevant clear cutting and that sort of thing. This is being done by professional loggers, professional foresters in conjunction with wildlife biologists. And it certainly is ugly when they first do it. But if you look at some of the areas that have been cut 5 10 years ago where there was one tree 15 have grown up to replace it. And a lot of organizations um do support the Sparta Mountain management plan. Um water uh Trout Unlimited is an organization that advocates for clear water. They favor the plan. They've looked at it. So again, I'm just presenting an alternate point of view. Not everybody considers logging to be evil. Um, in some places and in some contexts is very appropriate and uh it's an important tool for managing wildlife. Thank you. Thank you. I said the magic word, so I have to say something. Beth Broadick. I've been here for 46 years. Um, my questions are, how are you planning on working with Lake Mohawk regarding Lake Mohawk as a whole,

the plaza, and my biggest pet peeve, traffic, because we're getting a buttload of cutthrough traffic from Newton Sparta Road, from people going to 181, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Now is an excellent opportunity to work with Lake Mohawk so that I don't get run over and killed by a Pepsi truck, a Coke truck, the linen truck, or the box truck that almost hit me headon at 6:30 in the morning in front of Rob's house. There's already a four weight limit. I'd really like to know how you guys are going to work with Lake Mohawk as part of the master plan and over so their traffic isn't getting screwed up, but so that the bikers and the kids and the 80year-olds that live on my street do not have a problem. I don't know if Jenny's subcommittee is part of if that's the only or the one you mentioned anyway, but if that's the only thing, maybe we could kind of expand on that. I have no problem coming to every planning board meeting and antagonizing you guys until I get my traffic fixed. And Dean, I'm sorry. I and Margie, I will be at every town council meeting annoying the crap out of you until I get what I want. I I will just give one perspective on this, Beth. And I know Mike and I have talked about this and we talked about it at the last subcommittee meeting. Remember, this is a critical issue. I get it. The master plan is a vision and a strategy for the next 20 years. So, this might bubble up to be that we need to um manage traffic and safety and here's the goals, here's the objectives. It's not getting into the nitty-gritty of what can we do in a month just I know it's not going to be I know it's a big picture and I know it's not just my street or just the lake but it's my understanding that lake Mohawk makes up 40% of Sparta so it's a big

issue and when you're looking at traffic and water quality at open space you're looking at lake mo the actual lake itself you're looking at the wall river and a whole bunch of other stuff so if there's a problem with a ridiculous amount of traffic in part of the community that cannot handle it you're not looking at just me being a brat, but and I will own that until the day I die, but you're looking at the the water in the lake. You're looking at the wall kill. You're looking at everything. It's big picture. I know it's not an overnight solution. I've been bothering you guys for four or five years now. It's got to be addressed. So, I'm just curious as to how you guys are planning on working with the lake as a big entity in Sparta and also the police with it because they're a big factor. I'm back and forth with McCarrick on a regular basis at this point. I'll let Joan if you want to add I'll just say my comments are is first of all there's members that live in Lake Mohawk of the subcommittee. Okay. The mesh plan subcommittee on the stakeholders list is clearly a few groups from Lake Mohawk. um and the police. So these groups are stakeholders. They're going to be in focus groups gonna they're going to be key contributors. Um and again the public has ability to comment too. So it's not like it's going to be just a one-off meeting. At least that's not my understanding. So and the issues you mentioned are issues that Sparta needs addressed, not just Lake Mohawk. Oh no, it's not. So we're saying the same thing. It's not just my university. And Jenny mentioned maybe the public from Lake Mohawk. Is that how do residents of Lake Mohawk get involved in that? that right now we're doing Jenny. Can you Oh, sorry. I'll share the mic. I won't invite you today. Sorry. So, right now, um, we're working uh on getting the scripts and the questions ready for and making the appointments with the specific smaller groups that we talked that I spoke about earlier. And then from there, once we get all of that

information from those folks, then we will make wide open invitations. We have to establish when and where, what facilities. You know, hopefully this won't be big enough of a room to to meet uh to meet the needs. So, we're going to have to get that. I would think that that might be I don't want to put don't hold me to a timeline, but I'm thinking probably summer, maybe into the fall. Is that okay? Yeah. I just wanted to add though, um you know, we've kind of when we've said traffic over and over and over again tonight, we focus on Route 15, but that's not the only problem. So, I appreciate you bringing that up. I mean, take a look at the intersection. Corporal Morris has said many times, the intersection of Sparta Avenue and 517. Um, and as you're bringing up, Lake Mohawk. So, all of these different little pockets and the circulation study should start to we're going to focus on that and we're going to direct them and we can incorporate it in there. And also, as we go to the police as one of our focus groups, I think we can take some of these questions and work with the police on that as well. and uh you know have them make recommendations as to oneway streets or other things you know that they see as signage and the issue that you bring up has been an issue for over 40 years you know um I mean yeah I mean I I I was involved when I was with the police department I was involved in the realignment of the uh the end of the road where we put a turn lane in because there used to be rear enders there like twice yeah at Northore goes on and uh putting that turn, which is great, but it still goes on. But that was that was a solution to problems that were happening out on uh 517, not Northshore. I know the the lake has worked with the police department over the years with a whole bunch of different solutions. All of them cost money. That's one of the things they've they've put guards out there to, you

know, to check stickers. um that works for a while and you know and then but short of putting someone there all the time or putting a gate in um you know it's they don't work. It's a difficult situation. Check out my rock wall every time they hit them. They get flat tires on a regular basis in front of my house. The other thing that was done was the there was a weight limit put on the bridge down by at the end of the boardwalk. That was to that's to try and get the uh the trucks to not cut through. Uh the problem is it it it then forces them to cut through either Northshore or Southshore to go to the golf club instead of continuing on west shore because they're supposed to go that direction. They're not supposed to be coming from Northshore all the way to the country club or any of the businesses in the plaza. I know some of them do, but that's that's one for the police department to enforce. Yeah, I've been talking with Chief McCarrick about that because I'm one of the people that pushed for the four ton weight restriction. Um Dean can attest to that. Um, but the other thing too is, and Joan touched on this, when something happens on Route 15, like there was ice down at the bottom of the hill where 181 and 15 meet, there was a big huge ice patch, so everybody got backed up on 181, people get pissed. They go down 517 into Newton. Or when Reverend Brown and Pope John get out at 241, I can't get out of my road. People cut through. There's all kinds of issues up at the 181 517 intersection. and the former mayor winds up in a telephone pole because of an accident. Stuff like that goes on all of the time. So, I'm curious to see how we can resolve that, but also make sure that we don't have the overflow into the rural roads or the small the smaller roads as well, not just the counties. Oh, that's as we talked about, you know, traffic is the the number one issue and it's an overall, you know, it's an overall view of traffic, not just one specific place.

We want to try and look at look at all of those um issues, you know, as a whole. Um you know, I I just think out loud, you know, can you imagine what town would be like if roof 15 the highway hadn't been built, you know. Um thank goodness we have that bypass in the town. Um it doesn't help that the far end of town, but it does help the downtown area, you know, because um traffic in the late 60s, early 70s was backed up to the bowling alley. to to try and make the turn down here. That's why the jug handle was put in. Um, but it's yeah, traffic is the number one issue. Just to expand on that, you're not a bride. We need we need people like you to come forward to have these conversations to put that information out there to let us know where all those trouble spots are, not just in Lake Mohawk, but elsewhere to to Jones at this point. It's ridiculous. No, I I understand. And and as much as we we hear all of these things and we want to put all these things and all these considerations into the master plan, to Dean's point, what we're doing is overarching, right? So, what it comes down to is that once the master plan's in place and we give the guidance, then it's then it's up to the council to put the ordinances in place to, you know, and then of course the police department and so on to enforce all of those laws that get put in place based on, you know, the analysis that's done and and the recommendations that come out there. So we unfortunately it's a process and I hate to say that especially to you because I know how passionate you are about this. I'm just as passionate but I we we would love to see you know something happen tomorrow would absolutely love it. I I don't know if that's feasible, but um you know, I

mean, now that the conversation is started amongst everyone, the council is talking to the planning board, planning board's talking to zoning boards, subcommitteees out there talking to the public, but just keep coming. Keep coming. Keep keep on us. Keep us keep us accountable. That's that's all I'm asking. Guys, sorry. Sorry, Dean. No, keep us accountable, please. I built tunnels, sinkles. So, me an hour and a half to get here from Basking Ridge because of the sink holes. So far in the last couple weeks, it's been alpaca farms. It's been cheap and it's almost dying on Route 15 coming up here because somebody decided to ride on the shoulder of the road. And that's just Wednesday in my world. So, I think um I you could be a brat. Um, but I I I think maybe you and Mike should exchange information because it sounds like you two are the only ones concerned about traffic. But um but I think th this is the kind of stuff where uh we do need the public to engage. Um reach out however you can because I look at stuff uh really far in advance or like I I learned to do that um geologic timelines. It's it's a long time. Uh so if anyone knows my house, hey, take my time. Um so slow slow and steady. Um but I I think these uh these personal um observations are really helpful in the same way that again uh the planning board, you know, we're supposed to make decisions based on uh our specific knowledge, local knowledge. So you're coming in here, you're saying on this road it's bad. Um I don't know, maybe

there's a lot of cut through there. Not sure. But uh if if everyone in town in these trouble spots were to report it, what that would signal to me is as we're putting together the master plan, that's this living document 15 to 20 years in the future. 15 is is the big trafficked area, but what happens when uh 15 is, you know, it's it's it's kind of like a progressive like cardiovascular disease, like it's going to continue to get clogged. And these kind of observations are showing us, well, what does local traffic do? What does truck traffic do? It when that's clogged, it's moving, taking side streets. So, I think that's valuable for a master plan because we can kind of say we need we need to be thinking 15, 20, 50 years in the future for planning. It's planning. It's not dealing with the present. It's planning for the future, right? So, yeah, keep coming. Keep being the brat that you might be. I didn't say it. I'll keep pestering you guys. Yeah. Thank Ann Lukak and I'm a resident of Sparta. Um thank you for um all the people on the master planning committee. Um I know how much hard work that must have been and um you'll still have more hard work ahead of you. Um so um I you know definitely open space is something that I'm I would like to propose but also um one of the things that I was thinking that a master plan should um really think about is the architectural style of the buildings

that are especially in the downtown area because recently I've seen a few buildings in the downtown area that have been knocked down and um what's been built doesn't necessarily go with the architectural style um that I think was originally planned in the town. Um I'm not sure, but at one point when I first moved to town, I thought that there was a style called the Colonial Williamsburg style that was in our master plan. And I was just wondering if that was something that is actually in the master plan and if if it is if it's something that we're going to um consider in the future. Um so the master plan is not a regulatory document but it does dictate what can happen within your regulatory documents. So, one of the things that actually came out quite um frequently in the survey was looking for design standards as well as sign standards. Um so, those are things that you can have in your zoning ordinance. Um you can have them as part of your site plan review where you have standards of the way things are built. Um I do work in the city of Summit and they have quite an extensive design guideline within their development regulation ordinance. Um, and it goes down to things as specific as the roof pitch. Um, and there are items that you can do within your um, ordinance that can kind of um, for streetscapes, you can say, you know, sidewalks have to be this wide and you have to have a street tree every x amount of feet. You have to use certain type of pavers. um the street lights, you can go as specific as the um the specification of the street uh street lights that are used. Um and all of these things are things that we will

consider in the master plan. I think that as we dig deeper into it, we'll kind of start developing standards of things that are looked at favorably within the township and ways that we can encourage the continued development of things in that same order. So things as specific as materials that are used on the buildings, like I said, roof pitches, um streetscape design standards as well, specifically in your downtown to make sure that there's that cohesive um look throughout the downtown. And then as we kind of start proposing things like sidewalks and walkability, you can continue those design standards to create that connectivity between different places in town as well. So sorry, I lose my voice. Um, so once we do have those design standards, then they're enforcable. Um, so somebody wouldn't be able to just knock down a building and build something that looks like it's from Florida. So once it's codified, so you'll legally speaking, it's very difficult to tell someone they cannot knock down a building. Um, but you can create design standards and you can codify them and say you, for example, in a retail space, you can say things like, "We want open windows in your downtown. We don't want um glazed windows. We don't want signage covering the windows." Um, in terms of homes, like I said, you can put roof pitches, so there's no flat roofs, which in this part of the country probably wouldn't make sense anyways. Um but there are different items like that that you can do to ensure that the type of development that is being done is done in a cohesive way. Okay. Thank you. You can and one thing before you go. Um a lot of people when they think of the master plan they think there's a comprehensive document. and it's about 100 pages long and you know it's hard to read but also the master plan includes several elements um and

includes amendments related specifically to certain zones. There is an existing town center amendment. If you go onto the town website, all the master plan documents are there. You'll see one there for town center. Take a look at it. And I think what you're going to see and there's a lot of what you're you're looking to see. Now, the question is, you know, the next step, you know, do we need to beef it up? And then following what Dean was saying is, does that now need to get fed into the ordinances so we can support it? But I think if you're really concerned with the town center, I would look at that specific document and you can find it online at the um at the master plan survey um the website. Thank you. I think uh if you also want to take a look at the read through the ordinance, find the ordinance um or the the zones um in in the local code and you can actually you can read those uh adopted ordinances that go with the zones with the design standards and you can see that there there is contemplation of what you're talking about. In the past I believe also Lake Mohawk had an architectural review committee. So if you look at White Tier Plaza, you'll see kind of varying degrees of, you know, intent. And then I think probably around the 70s, a lot of that started to kind of peter out. But there was certainly that was one of the foremost earliest planned communities in the late 20s, early 30s. They had an intent. Um I'm not sure if you were talking about um the Colonial Williamsburg. Are you talking about the uh um Powder Horn Green off Southshore Trail? If if you're talking about Lake Mohawk, I'm not sure if you were just Okay. So there is It's just a rumor that I heard. So there's a colon back in the 90s when I moved here. So yeah. So, it would it's probably the colonial village

um which is a group of houses that are modeled after um historic homes. Dean's shaking her head now, so I'll wait to be corrected, but um but it's a it's the the um Powder Magazine from Williamsburg and then uh surrounding our um historic houses. But look, if you look at the um the zoning code, you can read through. And then as far as demolishing, I had I have the same concern. I mean, we've had some revolutionary uh era buildings that have been torn down. Um in the community that that I'm from, um I'm not from here. Uh my wife is, but in our community there, you had to notice. There was very specific notice requirement with like a big sign, letters a certain size um and visible from the street. Uh you had public notice that you were demolishing a building. Uh you had to notice the local historic um society. Um and so that would give them time to kind of survey the building and at least take pictures, draw it up so that it was, you know, saved. But it would also allow members of the public to say, "Look, you know, this is uh um a really important building and you know, maybe you don't realize this." And so it it gave a little bit of time. I think it was a 30 to 45day initial uh notice and then if anyone um wrote a letter to planning and zoning um it would trigger an additional 30-day review. And so that to me kind of is a no-brainer and actually use that process to um preserve one of my ancestors houses back to the 1640s in Connecticut um where it it didn't actually stop it from a progress

standpoint because to the planner's point, you know, a property owner has certain rights to do with what they will. But what I found is if you educate the owner like, hey, this house survived you know, uh, 1640s it was the first female landowner in the New World and it got hit by um, British cannon fire, you know, during the Revolutionary War. Maybe save this, build your mansion over here and you can show this off. And so that's what they did. So, uh, I think education is kind of the solution there. Um, and but helping that is kind of underpinning it with just just some simple regulation. So, I appreciate where you're coming from. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, and one more thing. Um, the person from Andover, um, just I think everybody, like I know Christine knows, um, but we do have a trail committee in Sparta and we've been meeting once a month and we would like to reach out to other towns as well. So, um, we'd appreciate the contact information. Hi, Dean Reinhower, Sparta. Originally from Whiteoff in Bergen County, a town that had a whole lot of old houses and still does. Since I've been here so darn long, um there was discussion in the late 1990s what an is referencing by Dave Trost, who used to be our township planner and I think did an amazing job. And that's also from Wyoff. Pardon? He also lives in Wyoff. Yes, I know. And I went to school with his cousins. So he and I used to have a lot of conversation and his vision was to kind of have that specifically in what I call the row or the municipal where this building is and I remember him saying if we have to have Starbucks and what I call the chain things and he's been gone quite a long time now. Um he said we should have them

out on 15. We should have like the clove berries of the world, you know, the mom and pop going to what what an is alluding to about that Williamsburg old because honestly for a town as large as Sparta, I don't think we have a big historical area which brings in Ernie Hoffer who used to be uh for 20 years the planning board chair and Will Hookway who is the vice chair. uh they wanted to have a historical designation um significance and um it for some reason it didn't get approved but they spent an awful lot of time and I found it and I think a lot of people in town were very surprised that we were going weren't going to make any effort around that time I began my service to Lake Mall Country Club and I was on the board for 15 years and I have always wanted to and alluding to what Rob was talking about there is a board member who shall remain nameless who wanted to tear down Lake Mohawk Country Club. I had conversations with previous um council members saying, "You need to find an ordinance, a code, something." I said, "That's a $5 million asset on the township tax roles." And I said, "So that contributes quite a bit of revenue to the town. You don't want somebody to tear it down." And they talked about, "Oh, put in a Waffle House." And this guy was serious. Okay. And I said, "So people at the town council at the time were looking at me like, well, what do you want us to do?" I said, "It's a big ratable. It's a historic building. It has that little designation thing. Write something. I don't know. Ask the lawyer what what to do, but do something so they can't tear it down. They might be able to make modifications, do some things, adjust with a business flow, but you're never going to recreate that building." So, I just want to definitely put that out from the plan thing. And I do think Dave Trost was right about trying to preserve the character. I mean, I think in a town like Woff today, you do have McDonald's, but it doesn't look like a McDonald's. It looks more

like the Hilton Head. It looks like it blends in. And you know, if people want to have that type of food, whatever, at least it could look like it belongs in the town. So, that's what go to Montlair and take a look. They do have a historic preservation overlay, which is a really nice thing to have. And it is something I know I know costs money. We have to figure out how to how to get that part done. I agree with the comments that were just made. Um I also just want to review the water issue. Um just so everyone knows that there has been a USGS study that was done in the Catskills that confirmed that logging does um affect water quality. And I know there were some comments made um previous that I'd like to just correct a little bit because as we look at the master plan, I think this is an important part. The Highlands region does provide the water to over 70% of the state. And whenever you look at development and look at where large parcels of land need to be cleared, uh this USGS study does say that clear cutting caused a large release of nitrates and aluminum after harvest. And in conclusion, what they say is the increase in nitrogen concentration measured after harvesting is completely accounted for by the decrease of nitrogen uptake by watershed trees rather rather than the increase in nitrogen mineralization and neutrification. So whereas this gentleman mentioned that even trout organizations approve the logging, it's because many of the organizations that like logging also receive federal funding. And we'll see what happens now with what's happening on our federal side of the world. But they receive federal grants. And not

that I'm against the federal grants, but we just want to do the right thing for the people of Sparta, for the people to protect our water. water is a huge issue. We already know we have issues with um pas and the forever chemicals in our water. And so as we look as the master plan and looking at we have already have to address that issue because Sparta does have it in high levels in certain wells. And there was a misstatement made by this gentleman um that talked earlier. Uh our group New Jersey Forest Watch has actually original members who helped protect Sparta Mountain from a developer back in the day. Um and uh what's interesting is that on the original sign right as you come in off of Edison Road, it used to say Sparta Mountain and it was a joint venture with the Victoria Foundation, Green Acres and New Jersey Audabon. And because of the quote controversy that this issue has brought, the state decided doesn't have money to do other things, but decided to change all of the signs in the state to call them now wildlife management areas. The only thing that needs to be managed is people, not nature. And I think we all can agree in many ways that this is something that is very interesting when we hear the term wildlife management. Um my last point um which is kind of interesting as well is that I will leave with all of you that when we think about um how our open spaces need to be respected, they are for everyone. They're not just for certain groups or certain birds or certain species that may be um the species of preference for that time, but we really need to look at a comprehensive and look at I think

someone mentioned doing environmental assessments studies. That's something that you all should know that the state has never done. There's degradation that's happened. There has been um vernal pools impacted the the logging. I think you also mentioned steep slopes. If you've been on Sparta Mountain, that is a steep slope, heavily rock area, precamrian um in its geology. That's not an area that should be logged. And yet, you know, the state continues. So, with that, I'd like to just close that I hope that all of us here honor and respect what the residents said in the survey and that we all work towards not seeing our open spaces being um logged uh for private interests so that they can make their money and profit off of that when all of us should be able to enjoy those lands. So, thank you. I don't know if you have any questions. If you want that uh USGS study, I can forward it to you because water quality is something we haven't really addressed and we need to especially with the forever chemicals. This is a big topic. I just wanted to ask you if you had attended uh the presentation that the state did on their logging on Sparta Mountain. Yes, I was here. I was present. So, I was there too. Um, so I mean I I think we probably need to right move on from here, but sure totally hear all those points and uh yeah um I I have separate comments as a resident but yeah. Okay. Thank you. I would I would just clarify too that you misspoke. It's not true to say that the township has done nothing to protect the water and is not focused on PAS. That that's all happening as well. So that's that's a little bit inaccurate. Okay. I appreciate that because the public is

not aware of that like I don't I haven't heard anything been last year was a big topic at a lot of council meetings okay um funding conversations and um kind of what's happening with our water systems so there's already actions in place okay to start addressing PAS specifically and um we've joined a class action lawsuit last year for protection to possibly get funding to support that and there's grants so that a lot of that has happened and also there's been a lot of water quality protections for the aquafer. Maybe not as much as some would like, but there is, you know, always there's always room to grow in that, but there is protections that are in place and that the township has done over the years, too. So, just to level set on that. No, I appreciate that. And as a public resident who has maybe one of those affected wells, you know, it's good to know that the town is looking at that because that is something of a great concern. You know, we all need to be concerned of that because these chemicals are not going away. That's why they call him forever unfortunately. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? Bring it back to the deis. Anybody? Okay. Thank you. Um well, great discussion. Uh a lot as as you've all been saying, a lot of work to be done. Um but we're looking forward to to doing it for our community. We have two other things uh or one other thing on the agenda which are the updates. Um so we can quickly move through them, I'm sure. First one is from town council. Uh at that last town council meeting, the uh town council passed the uh filming resolution that endorses uh the efforts of our firm for of our uh filming council that is trying to bring movie

uh movies to our town, utilize our town, and we're trying to conform with the state standards and and be part of that be part of that effort. Um and as I also said, we uh made the resolution to align ourselves at least for uh the moment with the state master plan at this point. Um the count and the county master plan and we have the option of working with the Highlands Council, correct? At any time. I think that's right. Right, Lindsay. Okay, thank you. I couldn't see you if you were looking at me. Right. So, we should hear from both, right? Thank you. Thank you. Um, environmental commission. Yes. Thank you. We have several exciting things happening on the environmental commission as usual. The first thing that we did at our meeting which was on April 10th is is we looked at the Westshore Trailbridge project and um I believe that was mentioned earlier in the evening and they're going to be um the state is going to be um redoing the bridge perhaps widening it um taking out those those bumps that were mentioned. Um, we looked at the blueprint and the application and what um, the only question we had, one of the only questions we had was is what is the impact going to be to the stream wildlife that are downstream? And we weren't sure um that they were monitoring before and then during and then after to see if there's any impact. And so our chair will be sending um um a

letter to them. so they can clarify. Yeah. So that was one thing. And then another thing was is we had learned that um the town council had um pass the land use pledge for our sustainable New Jersey certification. So we're very grateful for that. Thank you. Um, a reminder that at Sparta Middle School on May 3rd, there's going to be a big bash because every day is Earth Day at Sparta Middle School. This is May 3rd from 10:00 to 2. Um we are still pursuing and uh looking at the um and hoping that we we will be able to have a speaker that talks about deer management since there's much concern about that from our community. So, we're hoping to get a presenter from NJD um to speak to that um and perhaps uh even develop some sort of a plan uh for Sparta in the future, help us in that direction at least. The rain barrel workshop was such a huge success uh last year that we're thinking of scheduling that again. Perhaps, as suggested by Neil, we could do that on Sparta Day. And um that's just about it. We're working on um we're working on Sparta Day. We're working on tree ordinance updates. And we participated in collecting hundreds of pounds of rubbish around the Blue Heron area at uh Bagot Day. Uh we hope to have another bag at

day perhaps in the fall. Um currently um our chair um has suggested that we uh think about read about um a resolution um that um is going around various towns relating to packaging. And this is called the packaging product stewardship act. And um whereas 40% of plastics produced are used for packaging and there's a plan throughout the next decade to reduce this. So this would be something that we'll be discussing at our next meetings. Um and that's all I have. Rob I think uh I think you covered it right. I um there was something I was thinking of uh but I think you got it. We've been busy busy beavers. Oh yeah. I wanted to ask you um what was the the top item with the baget day trash collection because I think it is worth noting. I'm going to keep bringing it up. I I've I've heard about it. Yes. I I think it was like what was it like a a bed frame or No, the most frequent a toilet. What? Clearly those little fireball or vab that's what I find. Yeah. So people must be just they're to right after they get off of 15 before they go home. They're tossing it. They're tossing it and then going home. That's in every town coming into

town and even has the same problem with those little fireball walls. Yeah. So, all sorts of treasures. Um, so please um consider joining us in the fall if we do the baggot day. Um you'll f may find a treasure. You never know a real treasure. What's the Are there salvage rules? Do we get to keep the treasure? Would you want to keep No. Well, all right. So, the reason I brought it up is because those little alcohol bottles that are frequent, you know, we have Ernie here. Um, and if anyone's looked, it's kind of something that popped up on my radar that um, towns have either tried to ban the sale of those um, or uh, they've instituted um, collection recycling programs. And uh some of them have earned about $70,000 a year in uh turning in those little bottles for five or 10 cents, which just think of the sheer number of them. And um uh Beth is still in the audience. So I mean I I've noticed a lot of those little bottles uh on our street and it just is interesting, but it's uh a little bit concerning to me because you consider well how did those get there? So problem for someone else maybe but no no they're getting rid of that. Yeah. I just I have a question about recycling if you don't mind. Um there are different types of styrofoam and I'm not sure which ones get recycled. You have the peanuts, you have the blocks of styrofoam. So I was told

the blocks could be but not the peanuts. I've heard that I've heard that um the spongy what we would consider the spongy styrofoam. No, but the like the block, you know, that surrounds the computer screen that you know you brought home that is made into the uh molding and such and you can bring that right over to Sussex County Municipal Utilities Authority. How do you know this? So that was computer packaging. It would snap if you tried to break that too. Well, some it depends on what peanuts some of them are biodegradable. Some of them there's also um there's also peanuts that started being used quite a few years ago and I know UPS used to use them. I don't know anymore, but they're made out of cornstarch and they just melt. You can because they're different they're yellow. They're yellowishy and you can pour water on them and they'll just melt and which is fine. It sounds like it's something we can ask environmental uh commission for clarification and get back to I'm just curious because I was reading about another town that has styrofoam recycling uh coming up this weekend. So, so one thing people should know because I don't know, we don't get a lot of uh audience at the Environmental Commission, but just so everyone's aware, uh if you think of soft plastics, which would be kind of the shrink wrap plastic around water bottles, if you're buying water bottles, PAS bombs, um if if you're uh plastic that you can easily squish into your hand, uh if you start collecting that, you will be surprised how much you can collect. And uh there's a drop off at Skuma, but there's also a drop off at Ocean State Job Lot in the front, I believe. And if you take a picture of that and email it, um it should be on the website, but there's a

program where uh the a school is trying to earn a a free uh a bench made of recycled bench. All right. Can you Yeah. get 1,000 pounds, I believe it is, right? Yeah. And and it is surprising once you start bagging it. I know planning and zoning uh some of the office the municipal office um staff has started collecting some of that and they they're pitching in. So I would urge people to take a look at that. Uh instead of throwing it out, you can actually recycle it. Um yeah, it's a TX program. Um Cara Johnson is doing it with her green team at the Sparta Middle School. that email. You have that email. So So you could take a picture of it, but do you have the email and all that? Is that you could go to Sparta Middle School maybe and and get Cara Johnson's email, but she's she's saving for that. I remember when I taught at Pope John, we got a couple of bird houses, a couple of benches. That's early on. It was easy to to get prizes then. Now people are doing it. But um but yeah um and I think but I'm not sure if you missed the um the lecture the EC when we invited the recycle coordinator from Skamua to our meeting. She gave a full presentation and I believe it's posted it might be posted on the town website for the EC page. So, uh, you could go back and get a lot of those answers to your questions. One thing that astounded me is is that don't take off the bottle the bottle top, you know, leave it on because when it goes through a conveyor, they're looking for that that bottle cap

to be there for it to qualify as being recycled for some reason. So, there's actually uh it it uses cameras and automates the process. So, uh, normally I think everyone's probably used to taking the screw top off of a soda bottle or a water bottle. Uh, if you do that, it makes it harder for the camera to recognize that that's a bottle and sort it appropriately. So, um, yeah, the presentation if it's posted, it would be worthwhile to watch. Yeah, fascinating tidbits. YouTube. Oh, yeah. I need something else. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Um Rob an update from the minor site plan. Do how how detailed do you want me to go here? I mean not well anyway I mean very generally okay so um so we've we've referred uh an application to the full planning board a couple times. We're still working on that. It's pretty complex. Um we have referred uh a few Pilates um I mean specifically you know to uh well so all right so we've had uh some Pilates um uh applications have come in and they're just they're they they're not zoned for that. So basically all we can do for minor site plan is look at what the m municipal land use uh and the local code tells us. So, I would kind of like I guess use this as a platform to say um minor site plan looks at a lot of applications and part of that might be

because our application fee is low. Um, and I'm going to maybe get myself into trouble in saying that uh the employees and the volunteers are doing a lot of work to review these um to determine, you know, can we even um move these applications forward or should they, you know, do we then send them to planning or zoning? Um, so I'd kind of ask the public, I don't think any of you probably here today, but if this is heard by someone else, please look at the application. It's very detailed. When you try to start a business in Sparta, we're contrary to what people may say, we're not anti-b businessiness. We look forward to business. But it's very simple. Go step by step. Fill in everything to the best of your ability. Um, and and check that the parcel that you're trying to put a business in, uh, the use that you're trying to to put into that parcel, uh, is is allowed. It's it's, um, it's straightforward. If it's not allowed, then the minor site plan can't approve it. That's it's beyond us. It's it's not us trying to be difficult. We just have to refer it on. So, this is what a lot of this is is we've we have a very complex application with a restaurant. Um, it it was referred to planning board several times. We have a Pilates uh a couple Pilates applications, but they're they're not zoned. So when we talk about this town is supposed to look a certain way, there's design standards, there's intensity of uses, and it all comes together in what we think makes the most sense for current and future traffic, and all we're doing is adhering to that. If you if the members even of the public disagree with that, I would welcome them to suggest new ordinances or changes to

the code, but I'm not no one can go past what the local uh zoning code offers. And so I rely on that and we do our best. I know the employees do their best and um so yeah, if you could just help us. I mean, I heard I'm I'm still learning this. So, my training was um I I get a couch and I try to put it in my living room. Uh if it doesn't fit in my living room, it's a a bulk variance and it's going to have to go to the planning board. If I decide I want to put it in my kitchen instead, it's a use variance and it's go to zoning board. Uh and it's kind of as straightforward as that. So, I encourage you to, you know, talk to planning and zoning, do your application, but please fill it all out and please don't try to circumvent the system because it'll just get kicked back and it's just wasting people's time. So, um I don't know. I don't know that there is any specific other applica. Okay. No, just with the Pilates though you said it's not zoned but I just to clarify it is in c it's allowed in certain zones and not mentioned in the ordinance in others which if it's not mentioned it's prohibited. Yeah. So some zones if it's not mentioned it's presumed uh prohibited presumed prohibited. Yes. So so can't grant waivers. Yeah. So if it's uh if it's not listed it's presumed prohibited. Uh if people do not agree with that, then we just need to fix the zoning and add uses in that zone. But until such time, that's what we're relying on. Thank you. I think that concludes all of our business. Um I thank everybody. Can I just say say one thing? Of course, Mr. Rel to to the minor site plan if I could. You know, one one of the the big issues I think we're all seeing is

signs. You know, there's a lot of that are going up that we just can't get evidence that they were approved or not. Some are some are bigger than we think they should be, but they may have gotten variances. We can't prove it. Some are internally lit. Again, may have got a variance, but we can't prove it. So, I I think, you know, Mark, I'm look to you if I can get some help. No. And and Dean, I think you're both on the new business committees. Sorry. Both on on the new business committees. What what I'd like to do is if would you mind just reminding people if anyone's going to put up a new sign, there are approvals that have to occur before because I'm not sure that message is out. We actually heard from one one applicant we brought in that they didn't know they had to come to us. They thought someone else had the approval authority. So it just it will help everybody just make sure people know and if they could bring that back to the Chamber of Commerce and just get the word out so it will avoid a lot of frustration down the road. Well, and I think I've said enough, but uh I just want to add the I think the sign that you're talking about where they got they said that they already had approval that was within Lake Mohawk. So, that has an additional step. Lake Mohawk has to get approval by uh the Lake Mohawk engineer, but the engineer will always say if you if you read what's prepared, it says subject to township approval. So, you do need to do that step two. the township is going to need the approval from Lake Mohawk for anything within Lake Mohawk. Then you take that to uh the the town um offices and then you complete your application. I I agree. But but you know just again just to be clear it's not just Lake Mo we're seeing it I think we're seeing it in TCC1. in the econom, you know, when we talk about T the the town center where you wanted to have that historic look, signs can make a difference, right? You know, if you want a historic looking building,

have historic looking signs as opposed to big internal boxes. Um, and and the ordinances steer you in that direction. So, again, it's just I I think it's just an awareness because I'm not sure that the business community is totally aware. No, thank you, Ron. as Dean and I can attest to, there's been a lot of discussion about that in just the two meetings that we've had this year and we're and we're formulating our ideas on how to put together a a brochure, a book, a guide as to how you get open I'm sorry, how you open a business here in Spark. That's great. Okay. Very good. Yes. And if they could just check the ordinances before coming to minor site plan because then they'll know we if it needs a variance or a waiver, we can't do it. Okay. Um I'm not going to forget this time. Is there any other business from the public? Anybody want to speak on matters that have not been heard already? just telling everybody to zip it. Okay, with that then um entertain a motion to adjurnn. I'll make a motion to adjurnn. I'll second that. Who thirds it? All right, motion to adjurnn. Thank you everybody for