Environmental Commission - Regular Meeting

Welcome to the Township of Sparta Environmental Commission meeting. It is Thursday, July 9th, 2026. We're the meeting beginning at 704. Please take notice. We are live in the council chambers at the municipal building. The stream can be viewed on our YouTube channel at www.youtube.com slash at Sparta TWP slash streams. please take notice that action will be taken on the following following items at the sparta environmental commission meeting on thursday july 9th 2026 the meeting is called to order at 705 adequate notice of the meeting was provided to the public and the press on july 2nd by delivering to the press and posting on the township website a copy of the notice can we have a salute to the flag

Congratulations to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

We have attendance, please, Courtney.

Chair Neal-Sauerwein?

Here.

Vice Chair Christine Rogers? Here. Christine Dunbar? here barbara kasalka yeah robert otto here alex birdie council margie murphy nicholas deprano here thank you thank you courtney um the first item on our agenda is approval of minutes from of uh june 25th

I had a couple of changes I wanted to see on page three. In the sentence that begins with Councilwoman Margie Murphy asked Chair Neal Sauerwein who he had, it should be contacted previously instead of contact. And then in the plant ordinance section, The second paragraph down, Chair Neil Sauerwein questioned, sorry, next sentence, Robert Otto responded. He was unsure instead of response. And then in the paragraph above that, it starts with Robert Otto expressed support. The sentence that says, Chair Neil Sauerwein questioned if Robert Otto was suggesting. I think we need a rest of that line. What you were questioning that he was suggesting.

The second paragraph, first sentence, similar. I don't know. It's a little bit. Chairman Neil Sauerwein, question if the tree ordinance was being worked on by Robert Otto and Barbara Kozolka. Had any recommendations? I think.

Let's put that in. That was being worked on.

I wasn't working on it. I think I had said Barbara, I thought, had worked on it in the past quite a bit, and I was unsure after I went to Corey Stoner for, like, a rewrite per state guidance or something. I was unsure what the status was, but I wasn't involved in writing the previous tree ordinance at all.

Thank you for those corrections. Anyone else? Chris, are you – do you have anything else, Chris?

I don't.

Okay.

I wasn't here, but I know there are typos or anything.

Okay.

All right.

Do you want to add something to this sentence about your question if Robert Otto was suggesting?

Oh, sure.

It just seems like right here. Yeah. Right. What were you asking him?

It's a little confusing either.

Right.

I think my intent for the native plant ordinance, my intent was prior to getting into a native plant ordinance that we should advance the tree ordinance first to achieve compliance with MS4 stormwater requirements. And that once we had the ordinance framework established for the tree ordinance, then that could provide the further guidance, which is, I guess, all there. And I think Chair Neil Sauerwein questioned if the tree ordinance was being worked on, period. And I would strike on by Robert Otto and Barbara Kozolka had any recommendations. And then I don't know. I mean, yeah, then it's then it's like, how do I fix it?

I wasn't here, but the next 2 sentences too. Yeah, we can delete the Robert. Yeah, I mean, you were and then the next sentence until the Robert suggested. I think so. Yeah.

So, so chair Neil sour wine question if this should be tabled. Yeah, so the. So strike on by Robert Otto and Barbara Kazalka had any recommendations. Strike Robert Otto response was unsure since he was not sure what Corey Stoner had found out. And then maybe strike just whether it should be tabled. And then Robert Otto suggests temporarily setting aside further development Until the tree ordinance is finalized and available for review. strike, it was noted and just say once the tree ordinances and. I would just say available for review and as it as it may serve as a template for developing additional guidance relative to native plants and shrubs so. neil i think you asked courtney if the tree ordinance was being worked on yes i suggested setting it aside setting aside the native plant ordinance until the tree ordinance is finalized as it might serve as a template for developing additional guidance and then i guess that's yeah that that makes sense because uh

Because this is under the native plants group. So yeah.

Yeah. But the tree ordinance itself is under the MS4 permitting, which is what we're trying to.

Waiting to hear from.

Yeah, I agree with your suggestions, Rob.

So should we strike the native plant ordinance heading as well and just have it all be under tree ordinance? Or do you want to keep them separate like that? Because then we kind of drift back to tree ordinance a little bit.

Yeah, I'd like to keep the tree ordinance specific to MS4 and native plant ordinance as a separate topic. Okay. In regards to the minutes, though. All right. All right. Are we good with those suggestions? So I guess if that's it.

I'll make a motion to accept with those minor changes. Thank you. Can I have a second?

Could you please go over what those changes are again? Are you striking everything after the first sentence and just putting in things relating to the tree ordinance?

No. Presumably you have you have all of this Courtney, right? But but Christine, if you're asking page three, the the big thing that we were correcting was. Page 3. Second paragraph under native plant ordinance. It starts with chair Neil Sourwine question if the tree ordinance was being worked on. Period. uh robert otto and then strike everything until robert otto suggested temporarily setting aside further development until oh my gosh if you're focusing on the tree ordinance i just don't understand why you're talking about the landscaping and you know

Gradient into plant lists and everything if we could just keep it to well, this is the minutes.

We're not discussing this right now We're trying to get the minutes correct. So what happened was we briefly touched on the tree ordinance and then we went on to the native plant ordinance and The the discussion again to the second paragraph is the chair asked if the tree ordinance was being worked on Robert Otto suggested temporarily setting aside further development and of the native plant ordinance until the tree ordinance is finalized and available for review, strike it was noted that once the tree ordinance is obtained and then just keep, it may serve as a template for developing additional guidance related to native plants and shrubs, et cetera. Because there's a relationship with those two ordinances. One, the tree ordinance has to satisfy our MS4 compliance, which we're not compliant with, I believe. And the native plant ordinance I don't think requires such MS4 compliance, but it would make sense to borrow the formatting and the style from the tree ordinance, but we need to finalize the tree ordinance and get compliant first. And then basically take that and tweak it to native plant specific.

Well, that would be the preferred order, certainly. Yes.

So, again, make a motion to accept the minutes as they represent the discussion.

Can we go back to this paragraph right here? The right under native plant ordinance, that first paragraph.

Yeah.

Where it says Neil Sauerwein questioned if Robert Otto was suggesting. Do we want to strike that and just make it? Robert Otto expressed support for advancing the tree ordinance in order to achieve compliance with the MS4 stormwater requirements. He noted that establishing the tree ordinance framework could also provide a basis for future guidance related to shrubs and other plantings. Robert Otto clarified that once the tree ordinance is... Right? Does that make sense?

Or do you want to have the... No, I mean, you're right. So you're saying strike Chair Neil Sauerwein question if Robert Otto was suggesting, but Robert Otto clarified that I mean, I might just— Right.

It's either clarify what Neil was asking, right, or it's strike that beginning part of the sentence and start the sentence with Robert Otto, clarified.

Okay.

Right?

Yes. But then, really, does my support for advancing tree ordinance go into the section above? Yeah. I don't really care, but that's why I was trying to combine them.

Yeah.

Because it kind of starts with tree ordinance and flows into native plants. Right.

So... We know what you're trying to do.

Well, it also has to reflect the minutes as to how the discussion went, so...

It's just a little sticky to rearrange things now.

It is because this is under the heading native plant ordinance. Right?

So here's the question. I didn't watch the, I didn't watch the meeting, but did you discuss the tree ordinance under the native plants ordinance?

I think we started with the tree ordinance and float into native plants, which is where I might just make sense because they, they relate.

Yes.

so i might just say strike the native plant ordinance heading and uh chain tweak the uh heading that says tree ordinance and say tree ordinance and native plant ordinance yeah i will yeah okay maybe let's do that yeah that that's a better and then that satisfies all the striking and suggestions yeah i think that that makes sense so So, with that clarification on unfinished business page, 2 tree ordinance. And native plant ordinance strike on page 3, native plant ordinance heading and all the other. Changes remain, I'll make a motion to accept with those changes. I have a 2nd, I'll 2nd. All in favor wait, can you 2nd you weren't there?

I cannot second. I was not there. I'll second.

Thank you, Christine. And I have all in favor. Aye. Aye. Aye.

I'm going to abstain.

I wasn't here.

Thanks.

I don't think you can even abstain because you weren't here.

Minutes are approved. We have no correspondence. We have no applications, public comment. Do you have anything to say? No? Okay, thanks. Reports.

Start to my left. I don't have a Well, I guess I do have a have a report, um, for the planning board. Um, what we did was is for. We looked at the master plan consistency for, uh, data centers and also. For the and 1 and 2. So, so that was, um, our main, uh, goal. Um, and there was much discussion about, um, the sizes of buildings, um, and how they could possibly. Impact the environment there and also the traffic. And also readables. But all in all, I heard by reading the minutes what the town council decided was to put a maximum limit of 75,000 square feet for both of those areas, which I think is personally, I think is a very good idea. Because in looking at the map of the those areas, they actually provide. The opportunity for a, um, some sort of a wildlife corridor to still exist that feeds right into the. Preserved area in the highlands. Uh, anyway, that's just my personal opinion. I'm, I'm glad that that was, uh, you know, voted on by the town council. I think it will. Help us with protecting the environment.

The other thing on that before you go on, so that's 2612, right? I think the ordinance. So I'm curious, you're the environmental liaison to planning board. I think you voted that it was inconsistent with the master plan, which favors, I thought, rural character and open space. Can you explain why you'd vote against it?

Was that the second vote?

26-12, yeah.

Because I didn't understand. I voted incorrectly.

Okay, can you, no, I think that's important. Okay, so you didn't, what part didn't you understand?

I didn't understand that I was voting on the just generally what I was voting for I was hoping that it would be a reduced building size but in part with the review that I was reading it seemed like they were taking the opposite position so I so I voted because I Okay, so I think it was 10 o'clock at night and there's a lot of discussion.

That's fair. I'm just I think it's important because I was surprised that you voted against it. And I think it's important to get it on the record. Because. There may be an impact, so what could be fixed to make it easier aside from it was 10 o'clock at night? But was it – because I know how it is, right? You're on the dais and you get – Hi, Margie.

What I can do is I can go back and listen to that discussion that preceded my vote.

Yeah. But was it how the attorney framed the vote or was it how the planner?

I just felt like it was very rushed at that point. We had had a lot of discussion, you know, going back and forth and the concern about ratables and all of that. And then it was just the way that it was phrased by the attorney.

By the township attorney?

By the township. Yeah. That wasn't clear to me.

Because sometimes they say a vote for this is this way. And so you meant...

It's very... All right.

So you meant to vote in favor of capping of consistency?

With the 75,000 square foot... Size of the building was consistent with the 1984 master plan, but you voted that.

You voted in agreement of the planner report that a cap on the 75,000 square foot cap. Was inconsistent, but you voted that.

This didn't inconsistent. Yeah, no, it's it. All right. It's consistent with the master plan.

What is consistent?

The 75.

So your vote should have been against? Yes. Okay. I just want to get it clear because I was still surprised.

And I didn't realize that until I was walking out and I was talking to the chairperson. I said, I think I voted the wrong way. And then she tried to console me and say, don't worry. The vote went the right way.

No. Okay. But it didn't. The chairperson of what? The planning board?

No. Okay.

It went in favor of it went not in favor of a cap of 75,000 square feet. You understand? That's what I'm saying. So you voted not in support of the 75,000 square foot cap. So the chairperson told you it's okay you voted with the majority, but the majority said on the planning board that they felt. That a cap of 75,000 square feet was inconsistent with the master plan from 1984 which protects the rural character and open space of Sparta I just think it's important to get on the record i'm not trying to. uh it's just important so it's very important okay yeah and i because i was just surprised but so yeah so so luckily town council um disagreed and and said that that yeah that um that the planning board um vote and so it sounds like the planning board actually had one less vote so you would have you would have been a second vote in favor of the ordinance and finding that the ordinance was consistent with the master plan, not in favor of the planner for the planning board who determined that Limiting the scale was inconsistent with the master plan.

I know it's very No, I know that she was very concerned about limiting in her in her review.

She seemed to really bring out that you know, it's It's really a balance

It's really a balance that we need to achieve and that, you know, that that may affect the traffic and that may affect the, you know, our ability to acquire, you know, more ratables. And she seemed to emphasize that. But your personal feeling that you stand was... My personal feeling is that in order to, I think, protect the environment and reduce impervious coverage and to keep the neighborhood and that zoned area as residential-like... and park-like, campus-like as possible, that the size of the building is very important. Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for drawing that out.

It's perfectly understandable to misunderstand something, especially at 10 o'clock at night when you've been in a three-hour meeting.

Thank you for your sympathy.

I wasn't trying to attack you. I was just trying to understand because I'm like, what you just said. Okay, so thank you. Also perfectly understandable.

Unfortunately, we should have put that ordinance through quite a while ago because there was no cap when four or five years ago. And then the $75,000 came in after The diamond chip warehouse application came in.

Well, is that true? And then there was a 175,000 square foot cap, and I looked into this in advance because we were doing the whole scale and intensity. So that's why I wanted to find out, Christine, why you were talking about this. and I was trying to get the basis for the 175,000 square foot number. There was no basis. So the closest I got, which was pretty recently, and it was after I provided the scale and intensity ordinance final draft, was I think TechFlex is somewhere like low 60s. Yes. So, again, I assume TechFlex didn't exist in 1984, right? um if we're trying to preserve and protect a rural character in open space it seemed to me to be rooted in like the built reality the current infrastructure to say if you have something around 65 000 or 75 000 square foot as your cap that's your big you know then you're not creating a situation where you have grandfathered um non-conforming structures that are larger so versus the 175 i'm like where did that even come from so i don't know and and i think like just with professionals if i had been there i might have asked the question to um because the professionals right i mean they're We look to them for their expertise, but they're representing Sparta, but they might be representing more infrastructure heavy or more paved over. towns like Parsippany or something like that so. yeah I think there should have been maybe more conversation on planning board. Rather than just simply. It sounds like it was confusing anyway, right?

So confusing. 1965 TechFlex was developed.

But I think that they, did they, the company started in 1965, but that was in a smaller location in Sparta over kind of where Father John's Lane is, I believe. But, and now they have the other.

Right. I don't know when they built that.

Larger one. Yeah.

Anyway.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Christine.

Oh, I just wanted to there was something else I was going to mention. Um, because, um, we all, I think we reviewed the application a couple of years ago for behind the Burger King. Area and that, um. Another it's not plus holdings anymore. It's another. Um, company that has taken over that project, but they're having. delays in getting the permits that are necessary. And so they asked for a year extension that was granted because I've had people ask me, when are they going to start building? Are they building something behind?

I don't know. I don't know if it's because they couldn't get the permits or they just keep asking for a delay.

Oh, well, we don't know, but they said that they testified that they couldn't get the permits for certain things for sewer and all these other things, and that's why we granted the year extension.

Just the other night? Yeah.

Oh, okay. Do you know what other permits besides sewer?

I do. It's somewhere in my notes. Because they did start to dig so that they could keep, like some months ago, so they could keep their application documents. going.

Okay. Somewhere... I had jotted down. Oh, here it is. Okay. The outstanding approvals are as follows. The Sparta Township Water and Sewer Department, Sussex County Planning Board, NJDOT Minor Access Permit and the NJDEP Treatment Works approval. They are trying to get these permits in good faith. So that's, but that's what they submitted to us. Um, the reason why, um, you know, they wanted the extension.

So you guys voted on that. Okay.

Any reason given why they're having, excuse me having difficulty getting the permits.

I don't know why they're having trouble. I mean, permits are tough from what I understand.

Yeah. Of course, it's dealing with paperwork and bureaucracy.

Hmm. And they did verify that there were not going to be any changes to what, you know, from the time that we approved the application. It's just that the permitting was an issue. They weren't asking for any additional waivers. So, yeah.

Good. Thank you. Thanks, Chris. Margie, do you have anything to say about the council?

Nothing other than we did pass the ordinance to limit the 75,000 square feet, 75,000 square feet of warehouse space in the EDPDRM1 and PDRM2.

Yeah, that was in the notes, I think, in the minutes. So, yeah. That's all I have.

We won't have a meeting until the end of the month. Right. Yeah. Cancel the next one. Only one meeting in August, one meeting in July.

You also passed the data center ordinance, correct? Was that the last meeting?

Correct.

So that was that a size specific.

No, it had to do with – no, it didn't have size. It was – well, it can't be over 75,000 square feet, but it was intense – its intensity and purpose is –

Well, yeah, definition-based. Definition-based, too. So you did what I just gave up on, but probably you had a lot of help, which is define what even is a data center.

Correct.

And you carved out some of those concerns that I had, which are like telecom and secondary uses for data-intensive things that wouldn't make it a primary-use data center.

Um, I do have some sad news, and that is that from the Trails Committee, we had applied for the county grant to get us started with the Iron Horse Trail that would directly connect us with the Paulinskill Valley Rail Trail, which is 27 miles long. And we did not get that grant, that $25,000 grant. So we're having a meeting in a week or so, and so we'll try to look for other grant opportunities.

We're not having good luck with grants this year.

No, this isn't our year for that, I guess. But, you know, the pendulum swings, so get ready.

Because of what's happening, everybody wants grants now. So there's intense competition, I guess. Yeah. Nothing else, Margie?

No.

That's it for reports. Oh, yeah. The master plan subcommittee will be meeting on this coming Monday to discuss new elements that might have been completed and goals. Okay. Moving on to unfinished business. MS4 permit. Courtney, do you know, have you gotten any response from our engineer about the MS4 permitting?

No. I did see him this week. He asked me to send him the current tree ordinance, just to see where it's at, because I know he's not a fan of what it is right now, so he wants to relook at it, and I told him you guys were asking, but he'd get back to me.

That's all I know. He's not a fan of it.

He wants to fix it up.

Was that the state or the suggested tree ordinance?

I'm not a fan of the state ordinance that was suggested that we adjusted.

Are you not a fan of what Barbara did or not a fan of what the state's asking for?

I gotta go. I have to.

But he needs more time.

Yes, that's what it is. He needs more time. Because something. Glorystone.

And anything else about the MS4 permitting that seems to be overdue?

No, not that I know of.

I just wanted to say that that is one of our, as an environmental commission, it is one of our duties to keep up to date and keep the township up to date on MS4 permitting.

Could we ask that prior to the next meeting, could you ask that he... give us the tree ordinance or his issue just like a blurb about his concerns with it prior to the next meeting as well as um is the ms4 requirements yes yeah status ms4 status yeah okay was that an email or a

for discussion from i i mean i did send him an email with all of you guys attached to it asking for an update but i saw him in person because he didn't he's been super busy so his emails are going through a lot so he didn't give you an email back no not yet okay okay thanks courtney um

All right. All I'll say for the native plant ordinance is I think it should follow the tree ordinance, which we just talked about. So I would suggest that we table that and wait until we make some progress on the tree ordinance. I agree.

Okay.

Okay. We'll take that off of unfinished business for now then. Moving on to the environmental resource inventory. Pat? Sorry, Courtney, giving you a chance to write. Did you have a chance to reach out to our grant writer about getting additional funding from the Highlands Council on our environmental resource inventory?

No, but I can. I can reach out. I have to find her email, because I don't think I have her email.

Yeah, I'm not sure.

I might have to ask Michelle.

The grant writer? Yes.

Yeah.

I don't have it with me either.

I can ask Michelle. She might know. She knows it.

Yes.

And there are possibly other grants that might be available to us.

Okay.

So... I'd like to engage our grant writer a little bit more on that.

Yep.

I'll try to come up with something I find.

Once I get her email, I can send an email out to her for us. Okay?

Thank you. You're welcome. Next item on finished business is artificial turf. I don't know who was working on this. I know we had discussed... different aspects of this. Mark Scott Not with Mark. Was he working on this?

He wasn't working. It's like Mad Libs. Maybe he could tell us his thought on artificial turf. So I think I had gently asked, and I wasn't any better on this, that for artificial turf, that if we could all look at this issue, it's been in the news with the World Cup, and it's something... It's something that we need to prepare for because the last time we got artificial turf, it was because we didn't have a plan to get natural grass established in time of the ball fields being used. So we need to figure out if we want to advocate for natural grass. And if we do, we also want to figure out what is the plan for disposing of the artificial turf, no matter what, even if we're replacing it with more artificial turf, and if we're switching it over to natural grass, do we do any kind of remediation, I guess, would be the question, and who's responsible for that? And I think we also talked about Not using open space funds in the future for purchasing plastic grass.

How long do they last?

About seven years.

I thought it was like seven.

Yeah, but they...

Between five and ten. It depends on the usage, you know, how frequently the fields are used and the friction and everything. Right.

And I think they do exist longer than seven years in practical, in the real world.

But then presumably as they age, they probably become more friable. So at what point do we say, well, maybe... these short little kids running on that plastic grass and it's falling apart because it's older because UV light has broken it down and now they're breathing it in. There's probably a point where we're like, probably not the best, right? Right.

And I'd still like to know if we have replaced any plastic grass fields that we have currently in the township and what that cost might have been or Is projected to be maybe we could have some kind of cost benefit analysis on.

Yeah, that's we talked about this a couple of years ago, right? And we got to talk about we went into it and. There's needs to be soil remediation. You have to have the soil tested and pay for soil remediation. Before you plant natural grass, but that's worth doing. I think we all kind of where the, but that's a cost. The disposal, proper disposal is a cost. Right.

But those costs were probably based on, like, the crumb rubber infill with heavy metals. Right, right. But now we have PFAS as, you know, the forever chemicals and all of that to consider, which I don't know, years ago, were we even talking about that?

No, we weren't talking about it, but they were still there. They were there.

I know they were there. So they're there, and now, you know, analytics. analytical methods are, you know, we're there where we can look for them. So that's a whole other remediation step that we have to account for, which is why it's pretty frustrating that they were installed recently.

So when they installed the Ungerman field, let's say, like, did anyone did any kind of projections how long it's going to last? Like, whoever was installing it?

I remember when it was installed, but I don't know. It was like three years ago.

I remember Dan Chiarello's comments about how it smelled when it was freshly installed. It was just last year or the year before, I think.

It was before I got on.

Yeah, because Dan was on, and he was talking about, like, it smelled like plastic when I walked past it in the heat. Yeah.

So that was at least two years ago. Yeah, yeah.

So the plan was to install it, but no one had the plan when we will have to be changing it when we'll have to be removing it.

This will make polluters pay and, you know, cradle to grave. I don't know. But that's what we need to backfill that. I think.

Yeah.

And I also intend to bring this up with a master plan. Subcommittee. Oh, good.

Yeah. Now, would that fall under the recreation department at all? would they have looked into that? Because they're the ones that probably were asking for it, I would think, or a big part of that decision-making process.

Good point, yeah, it's probably.

And we would need to know the reasons why they selected that or preferred that to natural grass. The only thing I heard was is that the, People who are involved in selecting the artificial turf wanted to be competitive with other teams in the area. Because they were all going to to artificial turf, but that's not necessarily a good reason at all to do that. Plus the injuries that, you know, and the heat. that's generated from that. Yeah, I still have a vision of my granddaughter playing on the field over in Station Park and it was so hot out and there was that artificial turf, you know, there that really added to that and the little kids were sweating and it was just painful to watch them play on that field and slip and slide and sweat.

I'll see if I can find that out.

Thanks, Margie.

You're welcome.

So can you at least find information regarding what exactly was installed? What's the profile of that?

what's underneath I don't know if Jim Zip should know right?

Courtney can you find out from between manager Zip I think like maybe three years ago we got artificial turf installed but there was some before that there was another one before that White Lake and Station Park was before

I think Ungerman was the last one. Right? Do you remember? No, I know. No, but did you play on them? Didn't we say something about that before?

On the turf? No, I'm asking Nick.

Oh, oh. I'm sorry. You're looking at me. Didn't you play on them, Courtney?

Um, no, I, I haven't, but I just remember hearing, I just remember hearing about Ungerman being installed. I, I've never been there or anything. Um, and I remember I talked about the football field at the high school, Sparta high school, um, the turf field. And they, when I, when I was at the high school, I mean, you know, just graduated senior year. Um, It was turf. They didn't replace it during my year, I don't think. At least not while I was there. Maybe over summer they might have. And I know I asked my older brother about it, and he said during his freshman year they either... I think they replaced old turf with new turf. But that's all I said about that, yeah.

Yeah, the school is one that has, they have replaced an artificial turf field.

Yeah, they've had it for maybe, I mean, about 10 years, I'd say, then. Right.

I know the softball fields were not artificial. They were grass. At Sparta. Yeah, we'll find that out.

Yeah, that would be good to know. You could find the cost and logistics of replacing them. Okay. Wow. Great. Okay. Anything? Does anyone have anything else under unfinished business that we might have missed?

Did we talk about Sparta Mountain and we take that off unfinished?

I know Alex is usually the... I, uh, we did talk about it, I think. Yeah. I forget what.

Are we done talking about it?

Uh, no, actually, I, uh, I wanted to bring that up, too. Um, I did send an email to, uh, Sylvia Salon from, um, uh, the New Jersey.

Stop the Chop?

New, yes, it's New Jersey Forest Watch and, uh, uh, Friends of Spartan Mountain. And, uh, She would like to come in and speak with us. She has some. She wasn't able to tonight. Let me see if I can find this. And as far as she knows, there are no changes as far as logging stand B, which was the plan for this winter. I think I shared the documentary that they reported a year ago on what the existing conditions are of the stands that have been logged. Says we are instead encouraging the New Jersey DEP to revisit other areas that were once logged on Sparta Mountain. These are areas that are now overgrown and no longer serve as early successional habitat and hence that is their supposed reason for doing the logging in the first place. And it makes no sense to or it makes sense to encourage the to go back to the areas that were cut, for example, in 2010. Um, then they hope to have a meeting soon with the and encourage, uh, us to submit further comments to the new commissioner. So we might want to. Maybe try to craft something, um.

To do that, um, after we hear her speak.

We could do it anytime.

I mean, what is the deadline? Is there a deadline? They're finished with the logging, you know, now, but they're going to plan and start up.

Yeah, the plan is for Stand 9B in the coming, in the winter. So they did have a comment period that we submitted our comments and resolution already, but it says here she's encouraging Uh, us to submit further comments to the new commissioner. Um, he's weighing the options. Okay, so hopefully we can get her to come in and enlighten us further on this.

Oh, Neil, I'm sorry. I did have one more thing. Did you get my email that Governor Sherrill did reverse her decision?

Yes. The New Jersey School of Conservation is now funded.

I sent her a thank you email.

Oh, thank you for doing that. Yes. Thanks. We should all do that. Thank you. There was something here. Oh, my God.

Okay. I guess we can go to a couple of new business items I'm asked to add. I don't know if we've ever had a mission statement for the Commission. It's not on the website. So I... We do.

We do have one.

We do?

I remember when Dan was on the EC, we went through that.

I thought we did, too, but it's not... I can't find it anywhere, and I can't find it. It's not on the website.

so there's one there's one in the code yes there's one in the code you want me to try to find it while you're looking um it's probably long-winded uh i'll start looking and you go through that

Actually, yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't look at the code. I expected it to be on. That's the first place I... That would have been smart.

It's in e-code. I think it explains... All right. Would you like me to read it? Yes, please. Actually, I don't even know if this is... No, this is under the website. Well, all right. So I don't know this is coming from sparta's on municipal website, not from the code, but it says there is hereby established environmental Commission for the protection development in use of natural resources. With the exception of those duties related to water resources which are presently under the jurisdiction of the board of health. The Commission shall be known as the Environmental Commission of the township of Sparta 1978 code 2 dash 22.1 and the duties of the environmental commissioner to conduct research into the use and possible use of the open land areas of the township. to study and make recommendations concerning open space preservation, water resources management, air pollution control, solid waste management, noise control, soil and landscape protection, environmental appearance, marine resources, and protection of flora, it just says flora fauna. coordinate the activities of unofficial bodies organized for similar purposes to advertise prepare print and distribute books maps charge plans and pamphlets which is judgment it deems necessary for its purpose within limits of funds appropriated for the Commission to keep an index of all open areas publicly and privately owned including open marshlands and to obtain information on the proper use of such area which sounds a lot like environmental resource inventory To recommend to the planning board plans and programs for the development and use of such areas for inclusion in the master plan of the township. To serve as a liaison between local conservation needs and regional state and federal agencies ministering to those as authorized by the to those needs as authorized by the township Council. To do such other acts and things as are reasonably related to and designed to carry out the purpose and objectives of the Commission. Again, 1978 Code 2-22.5. I don't know if we can beat that.

1978. So obviously that was some general ANGIC recommendation back in the day because I remember reading that several years ago and thinking, well, we're not marine. Why isn't this talking about... our area um but that's a project that we could do we could we could hone our our particular mission in for our needs here and our concerns in this area that's that's what i was kind of suggesting that we we try to take something like that and and whittle it down whittle it down condense it pick out the finest points and uh

have something established that we can put on our website.

I don't see myself taking a course at Rutgers on research design. It's suggesting that we're going to do research. If we're going to do research, we could be doing the environmental inventory. You know, that's not really research, but that is very time consuming, you know, extremely important. And I'm not suggesting that we can't have a part of that using the highlands. Council's tool but but it's kind of out of the scope I think of what at least I personally have the time to do doing a research study on, you know, an environmental aspect, you know, and going into research design. And that's kind of how what I was hearing that, you know, that we needed to do. Certainly we can, we know our town, we know our spaces, you know, very well. We can make recommendations based on the needs of the residents here. You know, for for sure. Um, so, yes, I agree with you. We need to think about the mission. And and what our mission, um, should be.

Yeah, right kind of a, um. A more general statement, like, you know, the, the 2 examples I included were from, they were used by and Jack, uh, and the 1 of the training courses. So, uh.

Cool.

And I think doing research is not necessarily, I don't think, it's the general statement, right? But it's very broad because it can mean going to the field.

To the library. Right.

But it can also mean just using readily available data and just using the tool from the Highlands Commission or using the New Jersey DEP data, which everything is already collected. So it's not necessarily going and searching in the field for animals or plants.

Taking our own measurements. It could be read by somebody. I don't think anybody looked up the code that Rob found before applying. for applying for, you know, to volunteer on the Environmental Commission, but that would kind of make me question if I really could devote myself to such endeavor.

To going back to school?

Take a class in research design, but if it's, you know, to research published papers, you know, and, you know, that are,

accredited organizations that publish them certainly but it doesn't it doesn't require us to do all these things i think this is important i think this uh came about from the state and allowed for commissions to exist and it's tied into the whole uh having a liaison to planning because previously there there wasn't a liaison to from environmental to planning So this allowed for townships to create a commission when people kind of didn't really think that was important so i i think it's i think it's important i don't think we have to do all these things but we could keep it really high level like looking at this yeah i mean seeks to protect and improve the quality of our land water and air by advising and and the specifics are there right like we're we're gonna advise just like planning and just like um legal And just like engineering, what we think needs to be maybe protected or like how we can quantify our natural resources. I mean, the aquifer is a pretty big deal and a lot of people hadn't really been having the conversation about the importance of that. But yeah, I think they're talking about a lot more now in the past four or five years.

But I guess to Christine's point, we could say it a different way if we don't want to say research, right? We could say we make data-based recommendations for Sparta Township, and that kind of encompasses what Barbara was saying, that we use the tools and we look things up to make informed recommendations.

Is database better than research? No, I'm just saying. To scare people.

No, but I'm just saying that we can, right? It doesn't have to be like implying that it's, a research project, right? So we can hone things depending on what we want to focus on. Yeah. But this is good. I like that it's, Short, it's two sentences. It's better than what the long thing you read online.

Yeah, again, the long thing I read online was to ensure, I think, that this commission has the power to do those things if they so choose.

Right.

But it doesn't require us to do all those things.

Right. That's the establishment ordinance, right? Yeah, exactly. Right.

So we can kind of say, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't worry too much. This is what we're actually trying to do. And so... Citizen science. I mean, you know educating the public and educating the statutory boards and making known Because we're representing the people's right like now and in the future So we want to make sure that the natural resources basically have a voice through us

And I would say we have, um, like a longer, it's probably a longer paragraph, but we do have some kind of explanation that gets we've been using. For some of the press releases that have gone out when we explain what the environmental commission does. So maybe we can go back to that because that's something we did for our own township a couple of years ago. And maybe like, look at that, look at some of these examples and. Condense it a little bit, but I think it has some good.

lines that we could potentially reuse or tweak a little bit right i would be more than happy to work on this with whoever else wants to uh so that we could maybe kind of work on it outside of meetings and not have a quorum so who else would like to join this the mission statement subcommittee

Do we need to stand up a subcommittee for that? I just thought next meeting or prior to next meeting we could put together some and workshop them.

We could do that too. But as far as communicating.

Yeah, we just don't want to do it to everyone.

And I know that the longer paragraph that I'm referencing was included with the Earth Day press release that went out. So you can start there if you want to look at it.

Thanks for bringing this up. Yeah.

So can I have a couple other volunteers who want to go back and forth on this before our next meeting?

I mean, I'll go back and forth if we're just doing it over email.

Sure. I mean, just, you know, if you have something that you feel, you know, is better for our mission statement, please send it out. Right. And then I'll give you feedback on that for sure. Okay.

The point is, I don't want to work on it over email because we don't, you know, we don't want to violate the open public records act and have a quorum.

He just wants to make a small group.

Yeah.

So that's only 3 people, right?

Quorum is for right on our, on our board on our board.

Yeah, sunshine laws, sunshine laws. Well, like with town council, because we're five, so it's three. But as long as you don't send it to all, you send it individually, it's okay.

So I'll be your second. I'm really good at summarizing things. I know.

I question your definition of summarizing sometimes. Short summary? But no. Who else wants to do this?

Do you want to do it or do you want to just get it after the fact?

I just want to make sure that in the mission statement that we say something about science based you know, we're basing our recommendations on

science I think that's very important in this day and age so we want one more person and then we're not gonna like decide this next meeting probably but we'll talk about some more right I could do it okay so you you Rob yeah me yeah okay

The next thing I wanted to talk about or. EC our environmental Commission goals. We never formally established any goals in the beginning of the year, as far as I remember. But we've had all the, you know, we've had certain goals in mind that we've acted on. But I'd like to maybe try to come up with something for the rest of the year and moving forward for next year, because we will have to put together a report of all our work and accomplishments before the end of this year. So if people want to think about what goals we might want to try to write down as concrete goals for the rest of the year.

Oh, yeah.

And including anything specific, like, can we start? We have all these green team volunteers who have signed up, but we don't really communicate with them. And I know I did send out a mass mailing to them asking for volunteers for Sparta Day and only got one reply, but maybe if we can maybe establish a project like for some kind of invasive species cleanup. Or we do our fall cleanup.

I'd like to do that again because we, you know, we have been doing that pretty consistently. I don't think we did it last year or maybe we didn't. I wasn't able to participate. But yeah, that could be one.

Because the LMPF didn't get to do it this year in spring because it poured.

So it's needed, I bet. It's needed.

We still did the Mitch Morrison volunteer day. But yeah, that's something.

What about if we create the goals for the rest of the year? What about we just... do like every month an email saying that's what we're going to be working on if anyone have any kind of input or anything either through the email or they can come to the meeting so we can possibly have even more people coming and i don't know joining us that's that's exactly what uh what i'm talking about uh we could we can do a newsletter a monthly newsletter that would be a great thing to do even like those things that courtney puts on the uh on the facebook page yes like one two of those every time we send the email but maybe not too many emails yeah because people don't like too many so maybe like every month would be okay sure sure uh can we throw out some of those topics like

Right now, I think we could just capture it, right? We've talked about native plants, trees. I think stormwater is, there's salt, stormwater, deer control.

Backyard composting. There you go.

What else? Come on.

Environmental inventory.

Like natural resource inventory. Sparta Mountain is a big one. Open space, trails.

We could ask them if anybody wants to work on the natural resource inventory. Just to to put it out there, because that was the 1 thing that they really pointed out in our evaluation is, is that we hadn't engaged the community.

Yes, but what the green team. That's more for the community rather than the green team itself.

But I'm thinking we might have the reason they signed up to be a green team is because they have some real interest in the natural environment or expertise that they could possibly share with us.

But that's the thing. How are you going to determine if someone has the expertise versus just... A volunteer. Exactly. And I think with this, we should be really relying on people who know right more than less than just people who are oh i want to work on it because i feel sometimes having too many volunteers it's not good because there's too many people that's trying to control things and i i don't know i think it's yeah right and the eri is more something for that's based on fact rather than yeah volunteers doing

Have we ever asked the green team, like done a survey for each of the members of the green team and ask them what they're passionate about? No, but I want to do that.

And that's a good thing. Or like what their expertise is. Yeah.

And in the environmental field, because we could take we could take our we know kind of what some of our things are, and then we could kind of put them in groups, maybe.

And that brings up something I was looking at. In our and jack resources. find it. A Community survey that and jack has developed i'd like to look into sending that out. I can forward it to. Your you can look it up on on the and jack resources so.

I do think that we should provide a list of suggested things, you know, a checkboxes for them, rather than just asking them what their particular concern or interest is.

There's a survey that I asked. I did send an email the other day to Angec. Sorry.

resources and tools sometimes it's good to have a list and then just like an open paragraph form, so they can they might come up with something that we hadn't thought of.

Right, but this is an let's see. yeah there's a Community environmental survey that and jack has developed and. I asked for it. They sent me back something that isn't that didn't work. So I'm going to try to follow up on that. There are some other Angec resources that we should be taking advantage of. There's a self assessment checklist or self assessment tool and a monthly checklist. I'll just send them out to everybody and see what you think.

Okay, thank you. But speaking of the EC goals, did we ever finish the report for the year? Because I think I remember we used to do it like at the end of the fiscal year, I believe. We would have to submit the report to the right?

Yes, Kim did that. That was sent? Yes.

Oh, good.

Okay. I wasn't sure.

Yes, I did dig that up. I don't have it with me.

Was it a report?

It was a report of everything we did over 2025.

And it gets sent to?

ANGEL.

Okay.

But does it go? No, no, I'm talking about sending to the township. Yeah, does it go from the midpoint to kind of the midpoint in this year, right?

I think you're right.

And I know that we work on that when Kim was the... So it was the middle of the year. We would have to prepare the report. So it's probably either now or it's overdue, right?

Yes. But that's so awkward because you came to be the chair in January, right? Well, yes. So you have to work with Kim if you have any questions or go back in the notes, in the minutes, go through the minutes to provide a summary of You know, I just think that's awkward.

No, actually, the report.

But if we have it for the last year, that was sent today, right? That was sent to the NJAC, then we will have it from the January to now, when Neil was the... From January to now, we will have to. Yeah. So we have it for the last 6 months of the year of the previous year. Because that was sent to the end, right?

No, it's sent to in 2025 in July. So, from from July to December, it wasn't sent that early.

I think I think we did it in November.

sorry i i had it here i think we can look into this because we have to send one to the township yeah so let's see what we have right let's work on like what we did january to now and let's see what we have for the last six months of the previous year i'll find last year's report and send it to everyone yeah

So that's something we need to start looking at. But I don't think it was July. It wasn't like July to July.

I think it was July. I think it was fiscal year.

All right.

Well, we can look into it. Let me confirm that.

Yeah. Thanks. Um, next thing under new business is a lighting ordinance. I found the and Jack dark sky model lighting ordinance template for municipalities. It's included in your package.

Oh, terrific.

You get the, uh, um, our professionals to start looking at this and

this is something i started i i used this for planning board and minor site plan as guidance um dark sky so i just want to get on the record um because this is highly detailed but the the five principles for responsible outdoor lighting are one That it's useful, so only use light if it's needed. So when we kind of make recommendations, I was always kind of saying, turn it off when not in use. That it's targeted, so it only falls where it's needed. So use shielding and careful aiming to target the direction of the light beam. That it's low level. It's only as much as needed. Light is cheap now with LEDs, but... The, the result is that we oftentimes end up with a lot more light pollution than we would have had 20 years ago. Controlled so use timers or motion detectors to ensure that the light is available only when it's needed dimmed when possible and turned off when not needed. And then my big one is that's warm colored so that's the like where i'm at 2700 3000 Calvin versus we don't need to light this thing up like it's daylight or the surface of the moon it's just it's the difference between amber and blue white light and so the blue white really messes with their circadian rhythm.

Is that in here.

I don't know if it is I this is. This is pretty detailed so, but this is the ordinance so I mean I would just say, if this is what dark sky and jack is able to use dark sky as their lighting ordinance template for municipalities. i'm happy enough to. Just say yeah, of course, we should do this, but, but also, there is a very simple five point. detail, I can resend kind of what I ended up attaching to a lot of planning board or minor site plan suggested conditions because we didn't have an ordinance to rely on, but I just kind of said, hey, we ask that you only use when needed. We ask that you shield it. The other things that we'll run into with commercial applications sometimes is that mixing 3000 Kelvin and 5000 you'll often hear like that looks weird, which it does. So it's it's very hard to get people to agree to 3000 Kelvin but cost wise like came up with shop right. There's not a difference. Most lights now, commercial lights that you'd buy, they have a little dip switch, a little switch right inside the housing. You just pick 3, 4, or 5,000 Kelvin. So I think that's a simple ask. There's no cost. Just drop it down to 3,000. The other argument against warm light is, oh, it's less effective than, like, bright daylight light which is true but it's also because it's not stimulating stimulating your rods and cones and your eyes which is the whole thing where blue light is just like jarring like being on your phone all night long in the dark yeah exactly before you go to bed who does that oh i don't know anybody who does that and so i don't know like i don't have an iphone but but doesn't apple have a little thing that that changes it to an amber light after a certain time yeah so it's the same principle but as far as creating an ordinance with those well so look at this but you know if I'm verbose this is way but the third page is good right that shows exactly the lighting temperature guide it shows very clearly the difference between warm and cold light So it could be this complicated, but just as we saw with our discussion about the Environmental Commission guidelines, I think it could be as simple as those five key points. So just to refresh everyone, it's come up before. I could resend those for people to look at while they're looking at this as well. There's a graphic, too, that goes with it.

So that 3,000 is the beginning of the neutral. The 3,000 Kelvin?

The 2,700 is usually like the... Yeah. 3,500 says that it's the beginning of the neutral. So, I mean, the warmest that I requested was... 2,700, but a lot of commercial lighting will start at 3,000. It'll go 3,000 to 5,000. So you'll just have three switches, 3,000, 4,000, or 5,000 Kelvin. And there is a great... If anyone's, like, really interested in this, I think it's Washington, D.C., like, maybe 10 or 15 years ago, did this whole process to switch over their street lighting to... Because everything... monuments and historic structures, they look different. It was whale oil, it was very warm light, and then they were replaced with mercury vapor or sodium mercury, whatever. And then everything was very amber, and suddenly everything went very daylight. And the initial LEDs were very bright. So we're trying to re-educate people that maybe that this warmer color would be beneficial for aesthetics for our health and it also the same way that it affects us adversely it affects um the environment so plants and animals

this is really interesting it is okay very detailed yeah i like that and um what are our lights on the the street lights probably probably five thousand you think there are five thousand yeah i had asked the town manager um because i think you guys recently replaced some i said what

what are those and i think he misunderstood and kind of they're the same style right but my hope was always and this would go along with the artificial turf is if we did like a mass replacement of our street lights that i would want to switch them all to 3000 kelvin because it'll um it should be shouldn't be any cost change and just when we switch over If we go warmer with our light it'll be beneficial.

There's someone across the lake that has this green and purple light shining. It goes right into my head.

Do you like that? Yeah, there's some bright lights around.

Well, and so that's another question is we have noise ordinances, but we don't have. But no light. So there should be, again, with those five guys, there should be shielding. I mean, if it's because that's a quality of life impact.

I do remember talking about this in the past, though, with a previous liaison, Dan Chiarello, about how converting all the lights in Station Park to warmer lighting would be very, very expensive.

yeah so like a month ago I had tried to talk to the township about using a program where where for $1 per light, we could have gotten. replacement lights and it was using federal programs, but if they're already leds I think they couldn't they couldn't use that program but you're right the very highlights they need a scissor lift and they're also you know rated for 24 seven exposure to the elements, so the weather tight and all that. they're very costly, but at some point, just like the artificial turf they'll reach end of life at that point, I want to be prepared to say okay. We got to replace them anyway, let's replace them with something that is going to be more beneficial for the community.

They always replace them all at once for 1 area. Or do they replace them as they go out? And, you know, it would have a different color to it, you know, to have the white and then the warmer. But I believe it was you that suggested that we start buying the warmer replacements and putting them in now.

how would that look in a community if you had warm and then cooler you know along the same street well applicant engineers would say it would look awkward and i would agree that it would look awkward because we tried to request um in a parking lot that could could like a building have these warm lights but then yeah if you if you have basically full daylight raining down on your parked cars and then you go over to this nice you know building um and it's got decorative lights at 3000 kelvin and it's warm and it's you kind of have to you just have to ask and work with them but I think it's still worth having a conversation doing it. And, and again, it's not when they fail. Um, most of them maybe already have the opportunity to just flip the switch to four to 3000 Kelvin, probably out 5,000, just flip it. And then, um, Hmm.

mean we gotta start somewhere so can we can we ask for uh like whoever ordered the lights right they will have exactly what what lights were or like what model or whatever number was ordered and then we can check if we can switch them yeah and let's start there i mean shop right again they um or stop and shop when they came in i said hey

Would it be any cost difference if you went to this?

They changed the sign?

They agreed to it. I haven't, you know, checked, but they said, oh, yeah, that's not a problem if you guys want that. So it just, for our environmental liaison, I would say when you're hearing stuff on a planning board and you get to that question about lighting, you just say, would you be open to setting all your lights at 3,000 Kelvin or, Would you be open to, you know, only having them on when the business is open? You know, so a timer set up and shielding them so that they don't, you don't have light trespass beyond the property line. I mean, simple things. And that's three of the ones that I can think of off the top of my head, but there's five principles. Downward facing.

Downward facing, yeah. You know, they seem to. Do they? Yeah, if you want to.

They seem to what? The bulk of it.

yeah they seem to sometimes want to negotiate for um you know a higher uh a wider light uh when i think you've even brought it up on the planning board yeah just trying to get them down to like three thousand every single time seven hundred kelvin

Yeah, I would put that into minor site plan. And as a request, just because it's, it's an easy request to make, it doesn't cost them anything. It's just a decision. And they would balk at it when it when there were pre existing daylight balanced lights, and they didn't want to mix them. Or they would say, well, they don't illuminate quite as much as the daylight, which again, is true.

But if you're about the master plan,

I'm not part of that, but I would say that lighting guidance should, you know, we could put this forward. Town Council could push this along and you could just say just like design standards for, you know, plantings. We should do this because it has a direct impact on human life and non-human life.

This right here, 2700 Kelvin. That's what they're recommending, but I haven't heard any of the applications suggest that we do 2700 or state 2700. It's always usually 3500, 4000, kind of in that range. It's a bargaining point.

It's an easy thing. When they come before planning board or zoning, that's the time when you condition the approval with that. But I mean, also, if it's in the master plan, then that's what we're requesting. This town observes dark sky guidance. Dark sky guidance has these five principles. We need you to adhere to it. And then instead of If there's a reason and sometimes there are valid reasons like. Safety lights. Other lighting then they state that reason and it's just a it's just a an approval beyond that. They just have to make their case, but there's not really. I don't think a good reason. Not to control your lighting on site.

Make sure this goes to the mastermind subcommittee.

And then I'll, I'll send you the graphic with the 5 principles from dark sky. Cause I immediately see it there. And then I can also send you, uh. I think it's in our emails, but I can resend the text that I ended up with is like, we ask that you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Great.

Wonderful good news. There's a grievance procedure.

That's the end of our new business. Does anyone else have any?

Yeah, I just wanted to tell everyone, this is a couple months out, but just so you can mark your calendars, the North Jersey Rivers Conference is going to be hosted on Friday, October 16th at Centenary University in Hackettstown. And Christine and I are on the planning committee, but this is an event that's hosted by New Jersey Highlands Coalition every year. And the specific workshop that I'm organizing that I think is relevant to our committee is road salt lessons from Pennsylvania. So this is going to be a way that we can compare what they're doing in Pennsylvania to what's going on in New Jersey. And we're going to have speakers from Stroud Water Research Center and the PA Road Salt Action Working Group. So it should be a good comparison, and maybe we get some new ideas for what we can do in New Jersey.

October 16th?

Yes.

At Centenary?

Yes.

Time?

8.30 to 4.30. It's a Friday. And the registration is open, so you can get your tickets. And maybe, Courtney, I can send you the announcement. We could get that on the Facebook page.

Yes, it's a great event. I've been to most of them recently. There is an Angec conference too. I can't find the date. Bring that up the next time. I think that's in September. And one other thing I attended a public hearing on the NJ pact real rules. That was Tuesday night. Where these rules were adopted that governor is trying to to rescind them. for now. And many, many people spoke out against it. Against rescinding the rules.

Oh, good.

So hopefully, they'll take another look at that and realize that climate change is here, it's affecting us, it's affecting homeowners, and changing these rules would benefit everyone. So

Can't put them off any longer.

And, you know, they've been working on this for years.

I wanted to ask if anybody had had a chance to look at the Sparta water report. I know I was sent one in the mail and I haven't yet. I haven't yet looked at it, but. Years ago, when I first moved here, I used to get a nice. water report there was a few pages and had maps of the diff the different regions and the well regions and it was very informative and now they want you to just go to this link you know and look at it um but i guess i just miss the Um, having that report, you know, and I've saved them the paper reports through the years. Um, and it would be good for us to do that. And if anything pops out at us, such as chloride or. Anything that there has been, I think I did notice an increase last year. Uh, just from their well monitoring that goes on, um. You know, the past year. I know there's a lot of E. coli that alerts, but I did notice the chloride also. And if you get a chance, maybe we could just talk about that at the next meeting.

Sure. Yeah, I remember the paper reports, too.

They were great because it explained to everyone where your wells were and what section you were getting your water from.

I haven't followed the link, but I will. And I don't see why all that information shouldn't be in there, wherever that link's to, so.

I think we probably could get on the link on probably the town website. There's probably, if we go, we could probably find it that way. But the link, I got a sheet in the mail, and it was written out. You couldn't click on it. I would have to type in that long address, right? So who's going to bother to do that? They're fixing dinner. Yeah.

I know I get a bottle left at my doorstep every six months to have my water tested. You do? Yeah. We've been doing it for 15 years. From the water department?

Yep.

Is there any reason why? I don't know why they pick us, to be honest.

You're the one with the lead pipes.

Huh?

Maybe you're the one with the lead pipes.

Maybe. No, my neighbor did. No. Yeah, we've been doing it every year. No kidding. Twice a year.

Did it test your tap water?

Yeah. I test the one that doesn't have a filter on it and has to have not been used for six to eight hours. Wow.

Then they come and pick it up.

That's interesting. Mm-hmm.

Ever get any reports back on specific to you?

I had to do it again, but that one time. Just actually last year, we had to do it again, and it was fine.

But you don't get feedback on the specific?

Yeah, we get feedback every time. Ah. Yep. I have no idea why. I don't even know if my neighbors get it, to be honest. No, I'm serious.

I don't know. Who else inspired against that?

I just thought they gave it to everybody around the lake. Or every other house or something.

That's a lot of bottles. Huh? A lot of bottles.

That's a lot of plastic bottles.

Yep. All right. Unless anyone has anything else.

I'll make a motion to adjourn.

Thank you, Rob. Can I have a second?

I second.

All in favor?

Aye. That's mine?

Yes. Oh, thank you. Thank you.