Conservation Commission - Regular Meeting

all right well I'll call the meeting to order um and uh 7:01 going to my clock here so uh public hearings we have a um a notice of intent stor Water Management permit 26 metal Lane map 56 lot 14 construct a flexible development with a three family with with the three single family units and one duplex unit um this has been continued is that right Melissa correct yep we have not received any revised PL so they've asked a continuance to our next meeting which is on the 23rd okay do I need need to read the legal notice or you're okay all right so uh this has been continued to the 23rd do I hear a motion to um to uh accept the continuation request so moved is there a second second okay all in favor by a roll call Vote zck Yes barington Yes Smith yes Bato yes okay um um so we have to wait till 7:10 so we'll do new or continued business so we have requests for C certificate of compliance zero mber Road Stone water Water Management permit fy2 24-2 St Mark's parking lot yes so we sent this for a follow-up review to fuss and O'Neal um as part of the storm water management permit and they came back with zero comments um so all has been installed per plan um is functioning um everything seems to be on par with what we approved um so I recommend issuing a complete COC uh for the storm water management permit um and we will include

the ongoing omm as part of that document that gets recorded okay any uh any conversation comments no no all right excuse me go here a motion to issue the certificate of compliance so moved is there a second second all in favor zul yes barington yes Smith yes posato yes perfect uh so I saw that you had sent out the 2024 annual report Melissa yes it's pretty almost exact what we have every year I did change around the format a little bit and I updated our kind of the area subject jurisdiction just to reword it a little bit more clearly than it has been in the past um and then I added all of our permits just at the end instead of kind of in the middle but but that's the only real changes to this year's um annual report and I put in there a blurb about the dump as well the um the activity of break Nick Hill yes yep yeah exactly okay um did anybody have any uh any comments did you have a chance to read it I took a look through and it looks great looks great Liz said no I've not read it okay I'm sure it looks great I've not read it okay um Kevin any any commentary on it or no I think it's great um I liked that we

got the community new community garden coordinator mentioned in there so that was wonderful um and uh other than that it looks wonderful uh what's the deadline for this Melissa um I think it was before our next meeting which is why I wanted to get it on let me double check okay yeah it's January 17th I can take a look at it now it's a pretty easy read I hate to say it doesn't change much throughout the years yeah really 29 public hearings that's yeah sounds like a lot yeah we had a lot more um cocs than I have thought we did originally too um I forget what it was from the year before but we did have a little bit of an increase even though it didn't feel like it per se I don't know about you guys it didn't feel like it to me but all right it's a pretty quick read wow well it's like a page in a paragraph and then it just lists all the properties so yeah it did I'm not gonna be able to validate any of those anyway trust Melissa so how many books do you rip through like in a summertime I just looked at my thing for the a was like 220 but of audio and reading so okay yeah I I didn't have any comments I thought it look great Melissa so um do we need to take a vote it's totally up to you as long as you guys are okay then I will submit this um to

the SL board's office yeah yep I think we all give you a thumbs up perfect sounds like a plan to me okay good job thank you for doing that keeps me honest us as well um let's see we have two minutes um probably can't cover item three and four in two minutes I can do a quick update on the farm dump if you'd like that's pretty status quo okay yeah um so we have temporary stabilization through the winter that's being completed the only last thing is we're working out um if we want to just put straw down or the contractor wants to use a little bit of a combination of a tackifier so working that out with um TRC only because we have to do some ground water sampling and making sure the tack of Fire doesn't impact those samples at all um but it would be cost savings about 6,000 um if we use that versus the straw so it sounds like um that'll be done next Tuesday um and then the upcoming stabilization and restoration plan we should have by middle of February I think by the end of January is probably more reasonable um so we'll have be able to review that make comments as well as stewardship committee um to get that done uh in the spring when it's time um so that's kind of keeping on track with below budget as well um you know the contractor and the engineer company have been great and keeping on top of anything um especially with the weird weather we've had with the rain Etc um so all looks well and any samples that we've taken thus far have come back clean no reportable levels of anything which have been great um so it looks like our final you know restoration activities um will be simple

stabilization planting um and we won't necessarily have any ongoing restrictions um or have to be part of the mass contingency plan um at all because we don't have any of those reportable levels so all looks good on that front very happy with the analytical results that have come back so far good good anybody have any questions oh okay all right um 710 so public hearing notice of intent 120 TR Pike Road Map 37 lot 12-4 construction of a 60 unit apartment building um also continued yes uh to uh January 23rd yep all right do I hear a motion to uh issue the continuance so moved is there a second second all in favor lck yes barington yes Smith yes osato yes all right that concludes our public hearings for the night um let me see newer continued business chest Hill Farm update yeah so uh both Melissa and I uh attended the uh uh meeting in the in the Deerfoot Barn uh hosted by uh Trustees of reservations to give us an update on what's going on with respect to the uh pause and farming activities and there was some great news which is that uh uh they're going to be resuming farming activities um and the way they plan to do that is by um having an actual tenant

farmer rather than trying to uh operate the farm themselves um uh it sounds like a wonderful idea you know the trustees is a is a great um um uh you know Open Space Management organization they're very good at what they do I think far trying to take on the farming as well um might have been a a little bit of a a reach there just too much too much going on um so to have one person who's this is their profession who focuses on it I think uh um has a much greater chance of success so that was great to hear um it sounds like they're going to be going out to well they're calling it going out to bid it's sort of a lengthy process um they working with an organization called oh gosh Melissa do you remember land for land for good land for good um uh that helps connect uh uh Property Owners with farmers and Farmers with property owners and uh uh the woman who came from that organization sounded very knowledgeable uh they're they're going to try to find folks who are interested and try to find a good fit for the farm in the community and uh and working with the trustees um so uh we talked a little bit about you know it's we're sort of hopeful that um you know before they they go out to bid you know they'll put together some sort of perspectus to give to you know interested parties uh it would probably be helpful to everybody involved if they you know also gave a a copy of that to the commission um just to make sure you know we don't want to have to come in afterwards if there's some something that just won't work you know let's identify it up front um you know they're not they're not in any way bound to do that but but hopefully they'll they'll see the wisdom in it I think it'd be just make the process go more smoothly for everybody so

uh yeah so that was some some very good news um so in other news uh there were a number of people there one of whom was uh Al Hamilton who's been um act you know an active supporter of the trustees uh on the property I think as we all know and he and I chatted for a while and uh he said that uh he had met with Town Council uh to talk about the CR and um I want to make sure I get this right said that that Town Council told him that um uh essentially there are no CR police and that if the town chooses not to to enforce the CR um there's no there's no comeback from that the town can effectively ignore parts of and um and we won't get in any trouble um I think he I think his goal is to remove what he sees as as roadblocks within the CR that are making it I think in his mind difficult for the trustees to make farming work in the property he uh being somewhat of a farmer himself really really wants farming to take place um I uh well let's see I I haven't met with Town Council I wouldn't do that without talking with the the the commission first but but to hear it you know from the horse's mouth so to speak um because I think what we would end up doing if the commission and I don't know that there's any apet in the commission to do this but if we did choose to ignore parts of the CR uh it's not that there are no CR police it's it's that the enforcement of it if we failed in our responsibility would then

fall to uh other stakeholders who would have standing to to take it to court um and just to make sure I had an understanding of how you know all the various stakeholders feel about this I had a chance to speak with um Nancy whose married name I can't think of but but Maiden named Beals uh sister of whip fiels uh and then U that after the meeting and then um uh following week I I met with PM eses who's the um wh fields's uh Widow and uh um she actually met her at her house and we had a lovely discussion um and I can tell you the perspective from the be's family is that uh you know they are obviously stakeholders in this they negotiated the conservation restriction they they did it in good faith they expected that the town was operating in good faith and they they expected at the time that the town would be uh enforcing the the the document that was agreed upon by everybody so that's perspective from the uh from the Beals the Beals family so we may be getting some pressure uh um from at least one member of the select board to uh to not enforce certain elements of the conservation restriction just so folks are aware um I uh would be happy to go to the town town council's office hours um and and uh get some you know direct feedback from him about this this topic and report back in if the commission feels that would be helpful or if somebody wanted to come with me that'd be even better um oh isn't I have like in my mind it's it's our job to be like the CR police to an extent right yes or not not right but in my mind like that's our responsibility as the Conservation Commission is is the the CR is is under our care and control so we

we handle the ownership duties for the town of Southboro of the conservation restriction is there like aren't aren't we like the CR police at the end of we're the ones who are supposed to be um the the parallel that this raised in my mind honestly was um uh if we were to fail in our duty uh I think it would be similar to when um I think Mark you're the the only one who was here during this time but when this zba um uh several years ago I think failed the uh abutters to the Park Central pro project and and um produced a a decision that was that was uh flawed and um uh the town simply walked away from it and and refused to uh um to set things right and it was left to the abing property owners who had standing to take this to court and they spent uh I'm told between the two citizens groups the the legales approached a million dollars um I I would feel sick if we shered our duties and it fell to a buding property owners uh the Beals family and any others who had standing in the community um to to take this on themselves to to get the CR you know enforced if we were to to not live up to our responsibility well you know I think I think lizza spot on right that the the conservation restriction police is us right right there isn't a state level entity that's watching over it great granted fine but we we are that overseeing leasing board yeah I say I I can't recall if he used the phrase CR police or or I think that the intent was there's no sort of authority that oversees the whole works and and you're right and you're right we are that

Authority we absolutely are and and I remember the CR was being created that you know um number of years ago I was on the board then as well but I mean we had you know lawyers involved on our board at that time Ronda Russian for example she was very involved in making sure that the the wording and the coverage and everything was was you know done correctly along with the Beals and other citizens of the Town um and and you know I think it's our responsibility to uphold that I I learned something really interesting from from pames uh the town meet so this of course it's an interesting real property so to purchase it the T the town meeting needed a two-thirds vote to uh to to purchase it the turnout for this town meeting and my is my understanding Still Remains as the largest turnout for any town meeting in the town's history and when the vote was held the vote to purchase this conservation restriction this document that we had have you know imperfect though it may be in in certain ways uh the vote was unanimous um which is just mindblowing it's just mind-blowing uh so I I think there's a clear mandate from from that town meeting to uh um you know that this is the town's CR and and we need to enforce it uh there is a mechanism to to change it if the the trustees uh um uh want want to pursue that um and I I would encourage them to do that if if they feel that change is necessary to go through the and part of that procedure involves going back to the most important Authority here which is town meeting the other thing is last time the trustees were here they were very clear that they were not asking for the CR to be changed right yeah that's that's a

little surprising we're still talking about it Tru yeah I I'm not sure I I I felt like there are maybe some things that uh I I was unaware of there you may have been some conversations or or things new contexts that uh uh you know that I'm just just unaware of and I I didn't feel like I was hearing necessarily the whole the whole picture not not in any uh malicious way but I just you know haven't been part of every single conversation so that's the report from uh the chestnut B Farm uh meeting Ben back to the farming um aspect of it yes you think they're going to be able to secure a a you know a farming oversight for this season uh it's difficult to say uh it sounds like the hope is certainly to get a tenant farmer onto the property this year uh and there will be you know a certain amount of of uh you know gearing up that may take place this year I don't know how much agriculture would actually take place during this growing season but certainly the hope is absolutely by next growing season is Melissa is that how you heard it as well yes yeah I think um you know they were hoping to put out their requests for proposals in you know by the end of January it sounded like um they didn't think it would necessarily be an easy process you know it's definitely making sure you know they did stress upon this is a property that's open to the public so they need to make sure that they find a farmer that is willing to work with the public that is open to people coming up to them and asking questions cuz the trustees will still be holding you know their events in the barn so that you know area will still be kind of utilized as trustey educational space but the rest of the property will be maintained agriculturally um so making sure that they find a farmer you know that can work with that balance was important to

them it sounded like you know and they did say that they'd be willing to send that draft um RFP to to us and um Sudbury Valley trustees so hopefully we do see that before it goes out um but because you know they have some pros you know and cons you know it's not a huge property but they also have housing that's available you know which isn't very um common on a lot of other Farms so they're hoping that they have enough there that will entice a good farmer um you know what what the makeup would look like you know there were also some neighbors there some were interested in agriculture or livestock some weren't um you know but so the makeup of what actually will be done at the farm kind of is still in unknown until they choose that farmer so the goal is to at least have someone in contract I think by this year and start to do the prep work for next year um you know in the meantime the trustees are still keeping up with their um Native HED RS and some of their pollinator areas so that is still remaining in effect until they get kind of the full agricultural aspect going so they're still working on their agroecology um so they're hoping to at least have someone on the farm this year but probably not in production ction until next well progress is like I said I think I think it was overwhelmingly good news I think this has a a great chance of of success yeah and the the nonprofit land for good has a very very good reputation um you know they both work with farmers and land owners trying to you know work with Farmers to try and find property but both land owners to try and find a um Farmer for their property um and I know SVT works with them as well they're ironically home uh hosting a kind of Farmland um uh expose per se um for local farmers in the area with land for good um I think next month uh I just saw that come through in an email so you know I've I've talked to other Farmers out where I

live and they they're aware of this nonprofit so I'm glad that they have chosen a reputable path I think you know it's definitely an organization that is this is what they do um to bring farming you know an appropriate farming practice to the property so I I have Great Hopes I think I you know they're definitely trying more in the background um that than we kind of initially thought um on this aspect so hopefully they get some good proposals back um and you know they can assess them as they come in well good well thank you for the update that's uh that's encouraging news um excuse me see so next uh for new or continued business uh 250 250 Turnpike Road this is a comment letter to zba for the 40b yes um so I put together kind of what I would consider some minimal comments and I can share them up on the screen in a moment um you know I think I started to really review the plans and then we got peerreview letters back from Lucas environmental um as the Wetland per peer reviewer and Howard Stein Hudson as the Civil um and I think they also got their traffic um review as well back that I looked at quickly today but you know the the civil engineering from Howard Stein hunon their report is over like 30 pages um it calls out a lot of comments so instead of kind of me hashing out kind of Page by Page the plans think that company Howard Stein Hudson did a phenomenal job in outlining it item by item um so in reality I kind of I ended at about 10 comments and I pulled out kind of the most important

ones that I saw um so kind of at first go I started with the the Wetland side of things um you know one thing that we have discussed past in both the oad and um for our notice of intent during the self- storage aspect or the contractor's building was the Vernal pool habitat and some of those detention basins um so you know in in looking um you know and thankfully Chris Lucas um and his team had been a part of that process and had reviewed kind of the existing um studies that had been done and assessments on the vernal pools and believe that there's more that could be done especially with this new development that they're proposing um so kind of harping on a lot about the vernal pools um Lucas had pulled out you know a recommendation about doing an appropriate assessment of wildlife habitat habitat and corridors um related to the Vernal pool and I kind of explicitly wrote require um you know there is a lot of work that is happening within the 20ft no touch and adjacency to these basins that could contain or do contain that we know of um beral pool habitat there's a lot of retaining walls around these um resource areas that could prevent Wildlife movement um so I think this is it's really important um for us to kind of stress that that it's not just a recommendation this is something that is important under our bylaw um and shouldn't just be ignored um you know it's also an opportune time considering we're coming up upon March um so it's not wouldn't cause a delay in Timeline especially considering the amount of um potential revisions that need to be done so I think it's more than appropriate to include that in this comment letter that that's an important

aspect for the commission um so just kind of further harping on you know that the studies would basically allow us to determine if there's going to be a potential loss of habitat which is a protection you know under our bylaw um and there's a lot of just work in the 20 foot in general um there you know are some retaining walls that come up very close to the edge of the Wetland areas there's um structures there's Lawns within them um you know a lot more so than in other applications we've seen under 40 BS especially um so kind of identifying and they should better explain why these encroachments into the 20 foot are necessary um and just a general bylaw waiver kind of isn't appropriate um you know I throughout my process and reviewing these a big part of what I pull out of the comprehensive permit regulations for zba is that you know they have to prove that this bylaw is necessary because it makes it economically infeasible if not and I don't see that really demonstrated I know that's not necessarily our jurisdiction to um discuss per se but you know I think it's important when they're asking for these blanket waivers especially in this case with this extensive work in the 20 foot um both during construction and maintained lawn Etc after the fact including in veral pool habitat um so you know Vernal pool is kind of what I talked about the most and then the rest was really just talking um kind of agreeing with the Howard Stein Hudson letters and recommendations um they go through both our storm water bylaw which is only a couple paragraphs basically saying that they just need to comply with those requirements and they don't see them but also under just the general site plan contacts go down towards the storm water

standards and the items that are missing um so kind of reiterating that um and that they need to you know list how these waivers are being requested in the relevant sections um and then you know my last comment was just kind of summarizing that you know it is our opinion that this this information is important and it hasn't been provided and the lack of these documents um you know don't allow us to determine if these waivers are appropriate um you know especially the Vernal pool habitat so I you know instead of doing kind of the in-depth at this point I think the engineers did a great job and I really think we need that information um first before we kind of get into more technical comments because even the state regulations haven't been met in a lot of circumstances let alone the local bylaws um so I've kind of started with this and I think this was kind of the basic good first letter to send to zba saying hey we've read the peview letters we agree and you definitely should require you know these specific things now but you know there's a whole slew of things that also need to be addressed before we can further comment that's Su just it well and what I what I've reviewed I find that the the plans and so forth are a complete disregard of buffer zones in general complete disregard that building up to the edge of wetlands and I think that will have an ongoing um you know discussion about where the Wetland lines are with respect to um you know the development and that that sort of thing but you know one of the reasons why we put a bylaw in place

for the 20 foot you know no touch or or restrictive zone or whatever you want to call it was because we had properties in South bro where um you know they would build a house and then would put the deck on and the deck um you know son of two pylons would be right at the edge of the Wetland right there'd be no backyard right there'd be no protection so I mean my my opinion in view of the plans is it's been a complete disregard of of buffer zones in its entirety which I agree with there are buildings you know more than halfway through the 20 foot no touch shown in the plans there you know there are tow houses that are 10 feet away from the edge of the Wetland and then there's lawn up to the Wetland right yeah right and you know um we we we've you know been pretty steadfast in in our our rulings over the years where we ask people to put you know um you know markers right um and the word Escapes Me For What the marker is off the top of my head they stick them on the ground um Pho Stakes thank you feno Stakes you know put those in the ground to keep people um from from you know mowing that within that 20 foot and you know building um horseshoe pits or whatever they would want to use there right so um I I you know this is just a again a complete disregard of Buffer's own protection [Music] um so from that standpoint well I think your your your letter is is um good um to the zba um do you think that they're going to be able to um understand the magnitude of this that's kind of what I'm thinking as I'm getting looking at this again I think it would be if you guys are

comfortable adding another comment kind of to your effect Mark you know that the commission you know holds firm that protection of the 20ft buffer zone you know throughout Southborough is important um and the extensive and additional work you know both ongoing and in perpetuity within the 20 foot you know is known to cause a detriment to the Wetland resource areas um I think that would be an appropriate comment to put in just to reiterate that you know yes there's more information needed but right off the bat we we have a really hard time digesting this um and and where we where we have allowed waivers it's been for a small encroachment in return for something that that uh is beneficial somewhere else right um Bas of species removal or additional um um you know replication or things like that right we just just haven't said okay have at it you know right so it's always been uh you know trade-off right we give a little you give back a little that's sort of thing there's no giving back here most of the time we we Grant the waivers for for temporary disturbance within the 20 fet that I mean that's the most common waiver that that we Grant within the 20 ft but this is just an just an outward abuse of the entire 20 foot Zone it's just it's a it will without question have a detrimental effect on the Wetland and its habitability I think Lissa your idea for 11 an 11th comment I fully support it even use Park Central as an example right I mean they went back to the drawing board many times to to do redesigns to be able to protect that 20 foot Y and detrimental effect on the Wetland by encro on the buffer zone means that

they're also violating the wetlands protection act right so it doesn't matter about the local bylaw uh necessarily right they they're still Bound by the state one so um we could still find that yeah they're impacting the wetlands too much um so especially whatever information we comes in about the vernal pools you know may tend to to support that even more strongly to your point Kevin now even even you know with a 40b application you still have to meet the state storm water yeah regulations um yeah and there were there are a few comments about that as well and just kind of conflicting drainage patterns and not correct drainage areas that were being shown or utilized within the Cal so you know I think there's there's just a lot more work that needs to be done um you know and it's it's sometimes frustrating to try and review these plans that just aren't there um but to see so much and not be there you know I I know it's a weird thing to say but you know there's a lot going on in the plan and it's just it doesn't make sense all the time nothing really connects the correct way um so it's hard to really make these comments besides saying like hey the obvious ones of there's a lot of work within our jurisdictional areas you know let alone our 20 foot but buffer zone in general with no in veral pool habitat probably more you know we have more teeth under the bylaw with the Vernal pool aspect um than the state RS but you know just I think as Kevin was getting to in general you know under the Wetland protection act and what Ben was saying about the the placement of some of these structures they're they're right up to the edges and I can imagine that some of you know Foundation dreams or or other things are going to be discharging to

Wetlands which just isn't allowed um so I think they have a lot to go back to the drawing board but the commission making a pretty firm statement that you know it's it's a lot within the 20 foot we don't typically do that so I have notes to add we don't ever do that we don't ever do that not typically ever yeah so it's like so I'll add some notes about the encroachments into the 20 foot and how typically the only waivers are for minimal or temporary aspects with um provided mitigation which is clearly not been provided and then a note to look at the Park Central went back for redesign so it's not an uncommon ask yeah I I can't you know since we had the Bon place I can't think of any time we've allowed anybody to build right up into the edge and and you know give them permission to do that and and leave it as such right I mean as Ben pointed out there been temporary disturbances we may have allowed a couple of feet here or there and get something in return but not not to this magnitude yeah especially not for new construction for sure so all right I will finesse that I can't remember off the top of my head when the next hearing for this one is but I'll send you guys all an update in case you want to tune in um but I will add kind of those I may break it into one or two comments um for that aspect but also mos in probably on Monday okay um and is that the end of our agenda agenda because I do have something I wanted to bring up I don't have a thing what's that I said I don't have anything else oh so the the um gas pipe work on Route

n um so at the corner of Parkville road in route n where they were parking a lot of their light stanions and things like that yep um even though it's going to get colder now and it's going to freeze they left a mess in terms of ruts and that sort of thing I don't know if you've been by there and seen it yes they were made aware when they first did it I think in the spring they're going to rake it out and put some new metal mix down okay because because there's nothing on the other side of that to protect anything you know it's all country drainage and Parkville Road there it does come around the corner from route nine um and that drain does the best job it can at the corner but oh parkerville or middle Parker okay no I'm thinking middle okay I'll take a look at parkerville yeah right right there across the street from the the truck that's growing stuff out of its truck bed on the side of the road got it okay I'll take a look at that one that's been here forever but on the other side of Parkville Road where the guide rail ends there they parked a lot of stuff there it's all redded and okay you know and just down the other side of the Hill from that is the brook right all right and there's no protection there or anything and um now that I can get out of the house every now and again I saw that okay I'll add that to my list I know I knew the Middle Road one but I missed the Park yeah I didn't see the V road so when they because it was quick um it was when they first started at the where they've mowed kind of that Meadow at 206 200 next to Long Cadillac on middle oh yeah yeah yeah so they had pushed the erosion trols back and staged all their equipment there so when I did the pre preconstruction erosion control inspection I was like what are you doing you even labeled this a wetland um so they pulled everything out and they had to find somewhere else to Stage their stuff because I guess that that's what they were having trouble with is just

finding space well here there is no erosion controls okay right so they didn't have to move them yeah they just they just parked did it yeah and and made a rded mess there right so we send them a note they've been very responsive so I'm sure they'll get on that not to mention the awesome Paving job they did on Route N I saw that today I my two-year-old grandson could have done better I think give me a Tonka truck let's go yeah exactly anyways all right all right thank you for uh hearing me out there no thank you anything else me all right well happy 2025 everyone thank you all yay do the motion okay mot motion to adjourn is there a second second all in favor zck yes barington yes Smith yes Pato oh Mark we didn't hear you yes okay yeah yes okay like he wasn't letting us go did it not work all right guys have a great night yeah you too by by