Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

mic check. Okay. Good evening. Today is November 16, 2025, and it is now 6:05 p.m. This is an eight- member board appointed by the city of South Fulton's mayor and city council to hold public hearings to make recommendations on resonings, use permits, concurrent variance applications, comp land use plans, maps, and amendments to the zoning resolution. The applicants and proponents of each case will be allowed a total of 10 minutes to present their case. Since the burden of proof is upon the applicants to convince the board that the application should be approved, they may choose to reserve some of that time for rebuttal. Following the proponent's presentation, any individuals in opposition will also have a total of 10 minutes to present their position. If multiple people will speak in opposition, you should organize yourselves so that you allow everyone to speak in the 10-minute time frame. Opposition is not permitted rebuttal time. If you wish to address the commission on a case, you must fill out a comment card and indicate whether you are a proponent or an opponent of a case. If you are not sure whether you are a proponent or an opponent, you must fill out an opponent comment card. The commission will take two votes on each application. The first vote is on the findings of effect as presented by staff. The second vote is for approval, denial, or deferral of the application. It is the second vote that determines the board's recommendation to city council. Please refrain from any verbal outbursts during the public hearing and please only address the commission during the designated public comment time. Staff, can you please call the role? Commissioner Smith Vickers

here. Commissioner Perry, Commissioner Reverend Jones here. Commissioner Jefferson here. Commissioner Williams here. Commissioner Devon here. Commissioner Price. Commissioner McGee. We have quorum.

Thank you. so much commissioners. You've had a chance to review tonight's agenda. Um, are there any edits to the agenda? Okay. I would like to add one item to the agenda and that would be for us to um discuss briefly about amending the planning commission rules. If there are no other edits to the agenda, can I get a motion to approve the agenda as presented? And I would also like to move that item to the end of the um agenda after number three. I make a move to approve the agenda as sounded. Second.

It's been properly moved and seconded. Can I get a motion? My apologies. Can you call a roll? Commissioner Reverend Jones. Here. I mean, I use your mic. Sorry. Use your mic. I Commissioner Jefferson. I Commissioner Williams. I Commissioner Devon. The eyes have it.

Thank you so much. Next, we're going to move on to the minutes from our last planning commission meeting. Are there any corrections or edits to the minutes, commissioners? hearing none. Can I get a motion?

I make a motion to approve the minutes. [cough] Is there a second? Second. It's been properly moved and seconded. Can you please call the role? Commissioner Rean Jones. I. Commissioner Jefferson I Commissioner William I Commissioner Vaughn I the eyes have it.

Thank you so much. And before we start our meeting today um I just want to take uh just a point a privilege to just make sure that everyone in the audience remembers that early voting is November 22nd through the 26th and we have a runoff here in South Fton on December 2nd. So, all the beautiful faces that came out um to vote a few weeks ago, we need those same faces strong on December 2nd to make sure that we have, you know, folks to fill these seats up and we want to make sure that South WS comes out strong. So, I appreciate you all for being here today and we're going to go ahead and move on with our agenda. And the first case is Z25-031/DV25-004. Staff, can you please present the staff report?

Yes. KZ25-031 along with the concurrent variant CV25-004. The address is 4865 Camel Road. The applicant is seeking a resoning from R3 to R4A to develop three single family residential lots on 1.65 acres of land along with a concurrent variance to reduce to eliminate the 100 the 100 foot buffer from section 405.01. Staff is recommending approval for both of them. Thank you so much. We're going to go ahead now and open up the public hearing. Is the applicant present today?

If you can state your first and last name and address for the record. Bavarian Grundy 3299 Shanny Court Powder Springs.

Thank you so much. You can go ahead and with your presentation. And so we are seeking to eliminate, as he was saying, the buffer between the city of Atlanta and South Fulton and to uh change the zoning from R3 to R4A so that we can get two one lot on the road of Sand Town and then another lot on the road of Camel Road. And so there is already an existing house on Camel Road. It sits on about 2 acres and so we're just trying to subdivide so we can build a house on each side and then remodel the house that is in the center. [snorts]

Thank you so much. Is that all for your presentation? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Sweet. You can take a seat. All right. Thank you. Do we have any cards? We have one more card that is for and no card against. Okay. The speaker is Jerome Brown. Okay. Jerome, you can come on up. Okay. Can you um say your first last name and address for the record? Uh Jerome Brown uh 3935 uh Cypress Point Drive, Union City, Georgia. Thank you. Um I'm for um uh I'm not sure what all I'm supposed to Can you speak a little closer in the mic?

Um I'm for the for the U resoning. Um that was it. I didn't really have a lot to say. Okay, it's four of them. Okay. Well, thank you so much. All right. Thank you. Okay. We can now close this public hearing if there are no other cards. Um, commissioners, we've heard the applicant and we've heard staff's recommendation. Do you have any questions for the applicant or staff at this time? Okay. Commissioner Dine, I recognize you. I have a question to the applicant. Yes, ma'am. Good evening.

Good evening. I want to make sure I'm I'm um understanding that you're going to There's one house that you said sits on two acres. It's about 2.1 acres. And the new the two new developments each of them are sitting on how many acres?

It would be about a quarter of an acre. One would be 12,000 square feet and the other one would be 14,000 square feet. That's why we needed the R4A because of that the the lot that sits to the left that would come out on Sant Town on Sant Town Creek. It would only have 12,000 about 12,300 ft. And so I don't I think that's about three acres something like that. Thank you. Commissioners, are there any other questions for the applicant or staff?

Commissioner Williams, I recognize you. Unless I'm missing something. Um, this was deferred. Okay. This was deferred from September 16th, right? Um, do we know why? Unless I'm not seeing it. Um, Matthew, can you you want to let him speak? Okay, go ahead. You can speak about it. We had not sent all the uh postcards out yet when we came the in September and so we sent all the postcards out before. That's why we had to defer your community meeting you're speaking of. Yes, ma'am. We had the community meeting and we sent the postcards and then had the community meeting.

Okay. And how many people arrived to your community meeting? Two people. two people. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Okay. Any other questions? We're good. Okay. Well, it looks like we need to go ahead and take a vote here. And um just want to make sure I don't have any questions here. I think we're good. Okay. So, yeah. So, let's go ahead and take a vote on uh first vote is going to be staff finders of fact. If I can get a motion to find

Okay. And this is going to be for the first case. Okay. Okay. So, that it be Can you Can you call the case number out when you do it because we had to do two? Oh, okay. Sorry about that. Sure. Uh um motion to approve status finding effects of Z25-031 SL uh that's that is it both or just just that one. Okay. Okay. Is there a second? A second. Okay. It's been proply moved and seconded. Can you please call the role? Commissioner Reverend Jones. I. Commissioner Jefferson. I. Commissioner Williams. I. Commissioner Devon. I.

The eyes have it. Thank you so much. So that passes and the next vote is going to be for uh approval, denial or deferral of KZ25-031. Is there a motion?

I make a motion to approve Z25-031. Is there a second? Second. It's been promptly moved and seconded. Can you please call the role? Commissioner Rean Jones. I, Commissioner Jefferson, I, Commission, Commissioner Williams, I, Commissioner Devon, I, with the eyes have it.

Thank you so much. And we're going to take our vote for the u the concurrent variance CB25-004. Can I get a motion um to approve or deny status findings effect? I make a motion to approve staff's findings of effect for Z25 CV CV25-00004. Is there a second? Second. It's been proudly moved and seconded. Can you please call the role? Commissioner Reverend Jones.

I. Commissioner Jefferson. I. Commissioner Williams. I Commissioner Devon I have it. Thank you so much. And we are next we are going to take our next vote for um approval, denial or deferral for CV25004. Is there a motion? Uh a motion to I move to approve uh CV25-004. I second. It's been properly moved and seconded. Can you please call the role? Commissioner Reverend Jones. Hi. Commissioner Jefferson. I Commissioner Williams I Commissioner Devon I have it.

Thank you so much. So both of those have passed and they will move on to the December 9th Marin Council meeting for final vote. And we will now move on to our next case which is going to be U25- 013. Staff, can you please sound the report?

Yes. U250013. The address is 120 Canewood Court. The applicant is seeking a special use permit for it to allow for a group residence for children in a cup in the old national overlay district again at 125 Kanewood Road. Staff is recommending approval conditional. Those conditions are that the special use permit is not transferable and that the permutton business license to operate a special use permit for the group home. Who president? Can you say the last condition again?

That the permit is required to maintain a valid South and business license to operate a special use permit for a group resident. I know your staff report has that error in it. It should be a group res. Oh, okay. Cuz I was like, hold on now. No worries. Okay. Appreciate that. Okay. So, we can go ahead and open up the um public hearing for the case. Um, is the applicant present? Hi. [clears throat] How are you today? Good. Can you please um state your first and last name, address for the record?

My name's Early Rocket uh 4705 Regency Trace. Um, I am requesting a special use permit to allow uh for a 6 to9 residence group home, maternity second chance home at 120 Kwood Court. This uh property is already designated as a cub area uh designated for multi-use um family uh residents and different types and that's encouraged there. What I'm asking for is that if I have up to six residents that I be allowed to have that number in the uh on the property. The property currently is approximately 79 acres. It has 2300 square ft in there and uh six bedrooms and uh ample space for the number of residents that I'm requesting.

Thank you so much. Are there any cards? So, we had one card that was for which was the applicant and we have 11 cards against.

Okay, I will call those names out. Please form a line behind the podium. Mrs. Jones, Rose fans, again, please make your way to the podium where you hear your name called. Last name Hughes. Horse. First name is Horse. First name Marcia Randolph Wright Anthony Davis last name Hector Jimmy Rs Mosley Alan Christopher and Miss Aspberry. If you do wish to speak against and you haven't filled out a card, please come see me for a card and then join the line.

Thank you, sir. You can proceed to the podium and please state your first and last name and address for the record.

Harris Coidge, 7130 Berlin Drive, runs off Kimler Mill Road. Uh I was one of the few people who were at the meeting um in front of the house at 120 East Kanewood Court on October 29th. And I admire Miss Rocket for having the card sent out to the uh resident, which is the appropriate thing to do. And that brings up another concern. There are some more there are several other uh houses in uh residency which are set up but there was no protocol whatsoever. They already uh I can give you the address is 2906 Faride Lane 6715 Kimmel Mill Road at Adena and 330 Faride Lane. I can give you that later on. But these houses are are there. They are to me they are halfway houses and they're not they had the the the residents didn't know anything about this as opposed to what Miss Rakette did. She sent out the cards which is a protocol. We just found this out. And anyway, I'm definitely uh I don't know to what extent uh I I agree with what Miss Rakette is doing, but it brings up another thing. She lives over in Cascade area and she wants to put it in our neighborhood and we want to know a good answer for that. Why is that?

Thank you. How many minutes are on the clock?

7 minutes and 59 seconds. How many minutes? And how many seconds? 20 something. Something like that. Okay. Um, so there's only about seven minutes left on the clock. So, and that is for everyone. So, um, you may want to, you know, think about that wisely as you guys come up. Okay. [clears throat] Um, my name is Marcia Clemenor. I'm the president of the Pine Tree Meadows um, Homeland Association, which is the where this house is located. And um I want to begin by saying that I understand the need for supportive services for these vulner vulnerable children in our state. My concerns today are not about the population being served but about the appropriateness of placing a facility of this type within a single family residential subdivision. My comments are based solely on land use impact zoning intent and community welfare which this board is obligated to consider. Number one, the proposed use is not consist consistent with single family zoning. The applicant is requesting permission to house five to six pregnant minors, but on the paper here it says six to nine pregnant minors from the ages of 13 to 18 plus their infants along with 24-hour rotating staff, counselors, case managers, and other defects related personnel. This is not the functioning of a typical household. It it is a quai institutional group home operating inside a neighborhood designed for stable single family occupancy. Approving this request would fundamentally alter the character and

intent of the zoning district. Number two, significant increase in daily traffic, parking needs, and activity. A home of this type will require multiple multiple staff vehicles for shift changes, daily or weekly visits from defects, case workers, transportation vans for medical appointments. Remember these teenagers are pregnant, deliveries, support services, and oversight personnel. This is not the functioning of a typical household. It is a quai institutional group. Approving this would uh okay now my play. A home of this type will require multiple staff vehicles. As I said earlier, potentially more emergency medical responses due to pregnancy and infant related issues. This volume of activity exceeds what our streets and parking areas were designated designed to support and will impact the quiet residential nature of the subdivision. Safety, emergency response, and neighborhood disruption. We are being asked to accept a facility that houses pregnant miners, newborn infants. Oh boy, a minute. Wait a minute. What happened to my newborn infants? Okay, my thing went away.

Okay. Uh late night activity, emergency medical calls, um unexpected behavioral um issues because these are troubled teenagers. So, we don't know what's going to happen at night. So, basically, we absolutely ask that it uh it's denied. Thank you. Thank you so much. How many more minutes do we have? 4 minutes and 37 seconds. Thank you so much. Please state your first and last name and address for the record. Rand Rand Randolph Wright, 6825 Kimley Mill Road. I'm here to in opposition to the housing and I see the rest of my time to my neighbors.

Thank you. Please state your first and last name and address for the record. Cynthia Jones, 2901 Forest Side Lane. Thank you.

I am here to speak against the proposed U situation with the homes, but my connection is the group home that has been opened at 2906, which is directly in the cult where I live. We had no knowledge that whoever bought the home has made it a 10bedroom facility with different people coming in and going out. We don't know these people. Neither have we um been apprised to what happened. There have already been two police incidents, fights, and we live in a culde-sac. I'm concerned the decisions are being made based on our properties that we have no knowledge of and when we try to make contact it's a haphazard not concern. However, guns don't have names. They don't have bullets and we do not approve of parking in the middle of the street. There's no place for all these additional facilities and the homes of people, the cars in the middle of the street. We don't want to see a head-on collision or a child being killed because the drive the driveways are not extended or open to allow for 10 people to live in one home. We ask that you please consider the decisions that are being made on our behalf without our knowledge. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Hello, my name is Gail Hector. My mother is Betty Jones. She's deceased and I'm one of the representatives for the family and I've talked with my brothers and sisters and they've not agre they've agreed not to to approve this, please. Um um the burden of trying to take care of my mom's house and my own house and all of this and having having to worry about what's going on surrounding your property and you can't tell what's going on. And we've got a problem with that. They have them straighten out with the motorcycles and the cars flying through the neighborhood with speed breakers and that's the joy for them. But we hear it at all hours and different times. So, I am representing the Jones family. Betty Jones is the name that the house is under. My brother is the uh representative uh person for her and I'm I'm the one that's paying the bills.

Thank you so much. And can you also state the address for the record? 110 Kanewood Court East. When I first heard about it, I was told it's for um where they will have um what is it? Well, you rent it out for people coming out of the country and stuff like that. But then they came in, the women that spoke were very nice and they said what their what their intentions were. So somebody's a lot of the information is not coming out straight. Thank you so much. Thank you. Hi, how are you? How you doing today? Before you start, let me see how many how much time do we have on the clock? 1 minute and 26 seconds. Sweet. We're almost done. Okay, I think we can

you got it in one minute. Okay, let's do it. I'm gonna cosign. My name is Alan Christopher and address, please. 100 Kingwood Court East, right in the same culde-sac. Okay. And I'm going to have to cosign with uh our homeowners president. She stated um very eloquently about why we don't want it and I'm against it, especially being in that culde-sac. So, I'll keep it really short short and brief. Thank you so much, sir.

Hello. Paula Asbury 140 came with Court East as my neighbor Allan and the Jones family. We are the ones that will be most impacted by this decision and your decision and it will greatly affect our properties. The culde-sac is quiet. We actually had a renter there that the prior owner investor which they are taking over our neighborhood as well um wouldn't sell to. Um but we already have issues with people um the young gentlemen doing donuts in our culde-sac parking blocking our driveways and just to cosign on the reasons that our president stated all of those reasons it's not made for that. You guys should come out and actually look at the area. It it's just I uh I support what they're doing but I don't support it there. We're the makeup of the neighborhood and our culde-sac just is not going to accommodate that without it negatively impacting those of us in the neighborhood, especially the homeowners. And there's our neighbor that wasn't able to make it who actually live in that culde-sac. So, I am voting no.

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Okay. Um, so I'm going to go ahead and close the public hearing. Commissioner, rebuttal time. I was still going to close it, but I'm still going to ask the applicant to to come back up. You still 9 minutes and 6 seconds for

Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't realize he had time left on the clock. I mean, she had time left on the clock. My apologies. I see what you're saying. Got it. You can come on back up. Thank you for that correction. Well, I want to thank everyone for coming and and sharing their uh insight and um reinforcing what we talked about at our community meeting. In the participant response, I addressed each of these issues, including the uh concern about property values as to having the home there. I presented and uh provided in the document information around HUD uh research as well as uh looking at the various types of homes that can be within a community and what really drives property values. Not necessarily the people that are living in the home, but whether or not that home is maintained uh and uh the maintenance of it is is uh appropriately um and continuously uh monitored. why this neighborhood was also addressed and addressed fully in the response. Um, lots of things were taken into consideration as I looked at the various properties. The property at 120 Kwood Court East is appropriately zoned for multifamily use. It's a cup already zoned as that. the the special use request is for if there are six or more uh youth in the home. Uh the home is uh centrally located near medical as well as school facilities that many of the youth may be coming from. So that would mean they would not uh have to change uh as it relates to relationships that they already have established. Um, more

detail is included in the in the report and I don't want to uh read through all of it. Traffic and parking there's currently um and and the way the parking is there. There's currently the way the neighbors are parked, they park, double parked in the driveway, four cars can be parked in the driveway without obstructing any of the um uh roadway. There's an additional twocar garage that can also house two additional cars. So, six cars can be parked in on the facility without being in the the driveway or in any uh public area obstructing any kind of access. Um there were concerns around um I think an an incident that that happened. we uh that wasn't brought up, but I certainly understand and respect the the concerns of the neighborhood. I have tried to uh respond as appropriately as a neighbor would in in response to the the concerns and the questions that that they have. In addition to sending out the uh postcards prior to closing on the property, I posted a public notification in the Fulton neighbor trying to make sure that additional information was out there even before I closed on the property. This was posted from July 15th until the time I closed on August 21st and I had no response at all. I did send out the um postcards to all of the neighbors within a onem radius of the the identified property. Um and of course I as you can see you've got response from that and I really appreciate it and support it. There are no homes similar to the home that I'm

asking for for a second chance maternity home within a onem radius of this particular uh address which is the requirement from the county. What I'm asking for does not violate any of the city or uh state federal regulations. the women that I'm or young women that I'm asking to support in this home um as relates to fair housing laws. Of course, there cannot be discrimination against them or the the fact that we are are there uh providing that service for women uh who who need that particular uh housing and and support as they try to transition from a decision whether they made it voluntarily or not. We still want to help support those youth. There are currently youth in the the neighborhood. I've been in the neighborhood uh after hours. I've been to there's a park close by. I've been to all of those trying to make sure that uh you know what what we may face as it relates to uh working with the young women, helping them to understand where there's uh safe issues, helping them to uh be aware of their surroundings and the situation. So, I I feel like I've given as, you know, um much information as I can. I don't know about the other homes that that they're talking about. I only know about what I intend to do at 120 Kwood Court. And I'm open to any further questions or or discussion.

Thank you so much. So, at this time, we'll close the public hearing. Okay. Um so, we'll close the public hearing now. Um, commissioners, are there any questions for the applicant or staff at this time? Yes. Okay. I'll I'll Okay, I'll go ahead and start with Commissioner Debond and I'll go on down. Oh, you're gonna go for Okay. Okay. Commissioner Williams, I recognize you.

Thank you. Okay. So, I have a couple questions um for the applicant. Uh my first question has to do with uh your service experience. Okay. Um do you currently operate a group home in another part of Atlanta?

Yes, our family actually owns two group homes. It's in the uh Columbus area, but it it serves um it actually serves males. My background, I'm a family and women's nurse practitioner. I've worked with children in the foster care system. I've led the benefit coverage for those children, work with defects, and just know that we need to try to provide as much support and service as we can to the youth as they try to make a transition from being in a a difficult situation to hopefully being uh move toward a more productive um relationship within a community. as well as within a home environment.

Okay. Um and specifically with your experience, have you worked have you seen the daytoday that takes place in the group homes, meaning the 24-hour um all of the things we we have over the daily duties. Yes, I apologize. We have oversight for all of that. all of the um staffing, the day-to-day, making sure that food, uh medical care, appointments are kept. We have responsibility for all of those, right? So that would require additional cars then. Mhm. Additional cars. The we usually have vans and so

additional vans. We we have vans and those vans can be parked in the garage. They're they're two spaces. There's a twocar garage that still leaves four spaces in the actual driveway, okay, that that people can park. Okay. Um I because I don't want to get into the weeds of that, right?

Um but I I imagine if you have um six women or youths at the home, they're going to need space and storage. So I would imagine that would be in the garage, but I I could be wrong. Um my my second question is your personal preference. Would you want this in your personal culdeac? Because we don't know what goes on in the homes of everyone who lives by us. I don't necessarily know even where I live what actually happens within those homes. the purpose and the people within those homes are not the the primary issue at at least for me. It's whether or not they are good neighbors, whether or not they some of the same things that have been spoken about. Are are they creating chaos? Uh the the youth won't have cars so they won't be out, you know, don you know conducting donuts in in the in the driveway. Mo from our experience, most of the challenges with the youth are within the home. They they're not out in the streets canvasing the neighborhood to destroy or look for opportunities in the neighborhood to do anything. If there's anything broken or or anything like that, it's usually within the home. when they're when we have them out or whether that's um you know in the vans or traveling back and forth to school, that's not where the issues occur. It's usually within the home and not outside of the home.

And my last question, what opportunity are you providing the neighbors? I think at at the end of the day we we all have to come together to provide for the youth who who are less who are are disadvantaged in in some way. These youth have been for whatever reason they have been um placed in a situation that they may or may not have voluntarily agreed to be in. However, their situation should not dictate that they don't have the opportunity to continue to be able to uh move forward and be productive citizens and be supported both them and their their uh infants.

Okay. Thank you so much. Um I recognize Commissioner Devon whom this property is actually in her district, District 6. Thank you. I appreciate your um information you've shared, but um and I understand uh what you're trying to do with the youth. You you are to go to u be commended for that. But however, we're talking about individuals who have purchased homes living in this area

and they're uh what they have communicated, if I've heard them correctly, is that you're you're you're trying you're you're you're uh adding this um different um residents to their established community, which is a group home and homes that they have uh purposed and purchased and possibly purchased for a reason. Uh it could be their final purchase, things of that nature, and trying to keep their community intact.

Understanding that um you're asking for a special use permit to allow this this resident's home within this already established community is has posed an area of concern. There will be traffic, whether it's a twocar garage or not. There will be in and out. There will be things going on. There are things that are in your control and things that are not in your control. So, you are adding to this um culde-sac traffic and um a list of things and things that they have shared and things they're concerned about. So, um, hope and you said you've heard them before

and in hearing them before, have you made any adjustments or have you considered their needs as homeowners?

Exactly. And that's that's kind of what I shared in my response. I understand that they they have concerns. They have fears about what could happen as it relates to having this this type of home there. U, but based on my experience, it the homes, the group home doesn't devalue the property. It doesn't uh cause a a a significant disturbance in the neighborhood. The the traffic that will be there, yes, there will be uh 247 coverage. There will be staff who will be maintaining and monitoring the home uh just as it would if there was a um dialysis patient in a in a home uh where there was medical crews that come come in and out and even the neighborhood that I live in. My neighbor across the street is on dialysis. There's emergency vehicles. There's vehicles uh coming in all the time. That's the nature of the neighborhood. That's that's a part of of what we live with and and exist in. It's not unique to any particular neighborhood at 120 Cwood Court. Of course, it will be there. I my intent and as I've shared with them, I want to be a a good neighbor. However, we can we can work through that. I'm not trying to de devalue the property because I own property there now as well. So, I Yes. I thank you so much for your uh rebuttal. I I'm not talking about an individual that may that may be a dialysis person. I'm talking about multiple individuals to change the dynamic of a community to add a group home.

I want to make sure we stay on the right track of what we're talking about. Okay. So, and they are asked and they have asked that you not change the dynamic of that neighbor. Yes, one or somebody in that culde-sac could have a medical emergency, but we're not talking about six to nine pregnant youth, 24-hour care and staff and vans and things of that nature. That's what I'm saying. I thank you so much. I appreciate talking with you and I will just um uh lend my time to my colleague.

Okay. Thank you so much. I'm I'm going to go ahead and ask a couple questions as well and then my colleagues also have some questions. But my first question is how long are these young ladies actually staying in the home? Like what is the metriculation look like from them arriving there? How many months pregnant are they? What is that? Where are these young ladies coming from? Are they in South Fulton? I have so many questions. I guess my first question would be how long what is the metriculation of them actually being in the home? The uh the women can come into the home as early as 13 years of age to 18. They can stay if they come in at 13, they can stay until they're 18. If they come in at 17, they stay until they're 18. So if they the end point is 18. Uh generally that's the the way that that occurs or as as a general rule. However, a youth could come in at 13 and and leave at 14 or 15 because they have um other supports and resources that they can utilize. They're utilizing the home to help kind of develop and and uh grow to be able to to move to that next stage.

Okay. Thank you. And then did you say it was it would be six young ladies at a time? The special use permit is between six and nine because that's the way the ordinance is is set up. The intent based on the space that's there is between four to five. And if if for some reason there is six, I want to make sure that I'm in compliance with the the ordinance as it relates to South Fulton. But the intent has always been four to six. And even in my response, I think there was one of the constituents who indicated that the sign does say six to nine because that's the ordinance and that's what I'm what I'm asking for. However, the intent is is to not have we're definitely never going to have nine. That I can I can affirmatively say generally between four to six is what the intent is for that particular home.

Okay. I guess I'm thinking now I'm just thinking about, you know, six parents or six moms and then I'm thinking about six kids, so that's 12. And then they have to go outside. Um they're not going to be in the house all day. So on the weekends and I'm just thinking about all the extra things that are going to be added. Then I'm also thinking about what the what our constituents are saying here about the the donuts and the speeding and the stuff that's going on. it to me sometimes it it sounds like some of them were conveying that that quarter sack is maybe not very safe to have maybe a lot of young kids right there. Um so I'm just I'm just trying to picture the amount of kids, the parents, the staff. It just seems like a lot.

Yeah. Um it it seems like a lot.

Yeah. And that's only if when a woman or when one of the youth delivers the baby that the baby stays there. the the baby does not have to stay there because they're not in defax custody. The resident is in defax custody, but the baby is not. So, there could be a mother who delivers and that baby is then um a relative or someone else takes the baby. So, it's not necessarily a a oneto-one relationship. We have um screening. We're able to screen the residents who come into the home. We can determine, you know, we we we have three residents who are at the same stage just g justational age. We can determine which members which one of those residents we we want to take, which one we we don't. And based on the dynamics of what's happening in the home, we can determine and and um kind of control that volume. So, it's not necessarily that there will be 12 people in the home. The goal is that there's never more than eight to nine people in the home. That's including the the child. The again, the baby is not a part of defax custody. It's only the the mother or the resident.

Thank you. And I had one more question for you and I just lost my train of thought of what that question was. Um gosh, [sighs] what was that question? It might come back to me. So, in the meantime, I will go ahead and recognize um Commissioner Jefferson and I'll come back to my question. Okay.

Thank you for your presentation. I just have one question. With all the opposition, have you thought about any other locations other than this this location? Well, financially and because I I posted prior to trying to make sure that even before I invested any money into this property that if there were was any opposition that I would at least hear something and I heard absolutely nothing. That does not negate what I'm hearing tonight. It simply says I was trying as hard as I could to not invest in a property where there may be opposition. However, I'm now I'm a neighbor. I'm I'm a neighbor in that um culde-sac. I I have um a property that I would like to to utilize to help support u young women who are pregnant and transitioning to adulthood.

Is that an alternative that that you would after all the opposition has taken place here that you think about any other location? I know some money has been spent. I I would Yes, I would I would look at other locations. I'm I'm not trying to disrupt the neighborhood. If if we could work something out where if if they want to purchase the property, then certainly we can we can talk about how we can can resolve the issue in that regard. Okay. Commissioner Jones, I recognize you. Yeah, sure. Okay. Um I do remember my question now. What was the intent? Because you knew you needed a special use permit or do you own the home right now? I own the home now.

Okay. I guess my question is what was your initial intent? Because what if you don't get a special use permit? What what was your initial intent with this property? That the the because it's already zoned as a cub area. anything. The ordinance is if I have six to nine, if I have less than that, based on my understanding of the regulations, I can have less than that without a special use permit. Okay. Um staff, is that correct? If if you guys can verify that, that would be great. We'll work to verify that. Yes.

Thank you. They're going to verify it. Uh, Commissioner Jones, I recognize you. Thank you, Miss Early Rakette. Let me first commend you and your family for the heart of the work of what you do. Um, I serve on the board of uh Kerry Still Pitts Home, which is the oldest African-American uh orphanage in the southeast and perhaps um on on this side of of the United States. Um, and we've had our challenges.

Um, we sit on about 20 acres uh on Fairburn Road. Um, and we have several individual homes and whatnot, but we sit away and, you know, we we're really cloistered um and gated from uh from from the community. We're not right next door to someone. Can you tell me, you said you had properties in Columbus. Um, can you tell me about those properties?

Those properties are located in neighborhoods. Again, we're not You're right. We're not because we're um small. We we try to keep the kids within neighborhoods. We want them to interact with neighbors. We want them to be a part of You want to normalize them,

right? Exactly. It's a part of of being a family. And some of them, as you well know, have not had that opportunity to be a part of of a stable family. So, our intent is again not to be disruptive in the neighborhood, but to be a part of that neighborhood and to help build. Again, I hear the the concerns and anytime there's misinformation or fear, we we will always respond to that. I I I certainly understand it. I will do whatever I can to help um mitigate that. That's that's all that I can say I can I can do. I can't I don't know, you know, what else I I can do to to try to um make that be any different than it already is. So, help us understand. Michelle has a baby at 13

and she wants to keep she's in defects. She's in defects custody. Custody. And she wants to keep her child. That child then stays in the home. The child could stay in the home. Yes. Now, is it is Michelle ever allowed to go out and venture? Can she go to the mall? Can she

go to the movies? based on the the um agreements with defax because defax is the custodial parent of children in their custody. So um Michelle fictitiously could go go out u but usually that's chaperon. It's either with the defax case manager or it's with someone defax has authorized that the the youth can go out. The same uh applies to anyone coming to the home. defax has to say yes these are the people who can come to the home. Does that mean that that boyfriends and all their friends and whomever school friends can come to the home? The answer is is no. We would we have rules and regulations as well that we have set up. So what what can happen is that child in the the uh custody can can go to um go to visit u say a family member, an aunt, an uncle, one of their other relatives in their home. They can go to uh they're not going to the mall by themselves. We would go to the mall as a group. We go to the libraries as a group. So, it's not like they would be out uh totally unsupervised at at any point in time. And that's also based on what defects uh has as it relates to each individual child and and what they're doing uh as as a part of the the care and custody that they're in. So, if Michelle went to Uncle Robert, not NY's house,

and hooked up with some friends in that neighborhood, let's say Michelle got pregnant again, um, would she then be would she be put out of your your home or she could be transitioned to another home? She doesn't necessarily she wouldn't be put out of a home. She could be transitioned to another home or she could stay in the home with with us. we have rules and regulations about how many children they we can have or that uh resident can have that youth can have when they're there with us. And that's generally one.

So my last thought of question um is the reason why I mentioned the acreage for carry steel pits was really for the children's safety. Mhm. Um and the fact that 10 people or 20 people or I mean uh 12 people or 18 people Mhm. uh would have you know some space, right? Um, so I I I do want to hearken back to what Commissioner Jefferson

uh offered and um again commending your work and understanding the zoning here. Um but just really thinking about the impact uh to this neighborhood and the impact to you and the impact to your residents as well. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Okay, Commissioner Devon, I recognize you.

Thank you once again. I just have a a quick question. You you you mentioned a couple of times that you made a posting before purchasing this residence.

That's correct. And what did it say? It it basically was a letter uh introducing that um there was a proposed uh second chance home coming to uh the area that they had the uh people had the opportunity to outreach and and ask questions or provide feedback. Uh a copy of the letter was included in the in the packet uh or the uh public notification is how it was uh submitted. It was included in the packet. I'm not sure if it's it's in there or not, but there was a a copy of the notification and I I shared that notification with the residents as well. So, you sent this letter out to the residents in the community that there's and with the address on it saying that there's a possibility that a group res I'm sorry, go ahead.

Right. It was posted in the Fulton neighbor, which is the neighborhood newsletter uh for Fulton. Um I think uh College Park Cobb it has multiple counties that it covers and South Fulton is one of those counties. So that I will not um continue with this particular topic. I want to be clear. You said did you or did you not send a letter to the residents?

Yes. A postcard was also sent to the residents. That's that's what they received uh uh individually. Uh, South Fulton sent me a list of all of the residents addresses within a onem radius of 120 came with court. And from those addresses, there were 3,700 of them on this Excel spreadsheet. I sent out postcards to every one of those addresses. even if there were duplications uh and there were I sent out a postcard with information on it related to uh the the public meeting that we had on the 29th this meeting as well as the mayor council meeting that comes up in December.

No, I'm referring to you said before you purchased right you notified the community. So what I'm s what I'm asking you is did you before you purchased this property you said you notified everyone and you did not get a response. I posted in the Fulton neighbor. Would you like to? No, I don't. I'm trying. I I'm saying what I did was I posted a notification in the uh community newsletter indicating that this was uh coming and this was a proposed uh option for for this particular property at this address. Okay. I just want to understand. So you did not send that particular

No, it did not go to Right. Thank you very much. That's what I wanted to know. Thank you very much. And I I'm finished with my question. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much. Um I think I found the answer already, but y'all might have it too. But from what I'm reading and just the knowledge I know from planning is that even if she's CUP, she still has to get a special use permit, right? Even if it was under the amount, cuz that's even what the public participation plan says as well in here. So even though she has maybe she doesn't have the amount that she wants to have in the home, she was still going to have to get a special use permit even though it's zoned properly to actually run the facility. Is that right? So let me answer in a roundabout way. Sweet.

So um as mentioned earlier on our use table which is section two uh section 207.06 on our use table which we are closely aligned with state regulations we only have options for six to nine or 10 or more. those will require a special use permit. So, from our understanding, they're only allowed to have a minimum of six from the from a state standpoint. So, that's why we don't um address anything under six because from our standpoint, it wouldn't be allowed anyway. So, six is the minimum. And that's why on our use table, we start at six to nine and then 10 or more. So, overall, you're saying that at the end of the day, she still would have needed a special use permit. Correct. You're saying if she's under six? You're saying that South Fton starts at six?

The state starts at six. Okay. The state starts at six. Mhm. So South Fton only recognizes starting at six. Correct. So she still needs a special use permit, right? Correct. Regardless, right? Okay. So even being under six, would she still need the special use permit? We don't address it. We'll have to contact our legal department for that. Got it. And start at six. So Okay. Overall, she needs a special use permit. Any group home needs a special use permit. Correct.

Got it. Perfect. Thank you. Okay. Commissioners, are there any other questions for the applicant or staff? No. Okay. Well, we can go ahead and take our first vote. Let me go back here. Excuse me. And our first vote is going to be on staff finders and fact. And that's going to be for case U25-013. Is there a motion for approval? Denial. I approve uh the staff's finding of facts for case U25-013. Is there a second?

Second. It's been properly moved and seconded. Can you please call the RO? Commissioner Rean Jones. I. Commissioner Jefferson. I. Commissioner Williams. I. Commissioner Devon. I. The eyes have it. Thank you so much. And next we're going to go ahead and vote for approval, denial, or deferral of U25-13. Is there a motion? I have a motion to deny U25013 um Canewood Court East for the special use permit to allow group residents, children in the cup. Second community.

Okay, say that second again. Second. Say it. Okay, perfect. It's been properly moved and seconded. Can you please call the role? Commissioner Reverend Jones. I, Commissioner Williams, I. Commissioner Jefferson, I. Commissioner Devon, I. The eyes have it.

Thank you so much. So, this case will be moved forward to the uh December 9th Mar Council meeting to be heard then for a final vote and we have one more case and this will be for well, we actually technically have three cases, but it's for one property. So we have case Z25-03 uh 033 U25-014 and CDP25-012. Staff, can you please sign the report?

Yes. KZ25-00003 along with a special use permit U25-014 along with a comprehensive plan development amendment which is uh C CDP25-012. The address is zero CON Fairborn Road. The applicant is seeking a reszoning from AG1, which is our agricultural district to C2, which is our general commercial district to allow to along with a special use permit to allow for a shopping center with the convenience store with gasoline pumps. The applicant is also seeking a future land use amendment from agriculture neighborhood to community live work. Staff is recommending denial for all three requests.

Thank you so much, Matthew. Is the applicant present today? Okay, thank you so much. And we're going to go ahead and open up the public hearing. And if you can go ahead and state your first and last name and address for the record.

I sure will. Good evening, Madam Chair, members of the commission and staff. My name is Hre Washington, 1211 West Peach Tree Street, Atlanta, Georgia, 30309. Honored to be back in South Fton, and to represent MK Energy, an African-Americanowned energy company uh that is seeking to reszone a 3.61 61 acre parcel of land along Camp Campbell Fair Road. It's important to say out front that we met with the community and uh we know that there are gas stations in this community that have owners that don't live here, don't care about the residents here, and don't maintain quality developments. And so our goal is to develop a lowintensity neighborhood serving uh sea store that includes complimentary commercial uses and accessory pumps along uh what we consider a commercial corridor or what we consider a bridge corridor bordering uh the city uh Union City and nearby surrounding residential properties. Our goal here is pretty simple. We think that that particular area of land is slated to become more commercial and we want to give the community and provide the city an opportunity to put a unique type of use that serves the neighbors where there's fresh food and vegetables, coffee, uh commercial uses and also neighborhood serving uh sea store with fuel pumps. Uh what a lot of what we heard from the community is that the nearby gas station isn't very well maintained. There's trash, there's concern with violence and uh it being a nuisance. But from our position and our perspective, introducing new well-th thoughtout commercial uses adds the competition that is necessary to encourage other people to step their game up when it comes to what they do in the city of South Fulton. Um we also recognize that uh there is a lot of surrounding residential uses and there are concern from traffic but uh the city of South Fulton is ablely putting uh a lot of capital improvements along that corridor with roundabouts and from our perspective uh increasing del lanes and ensure including del lanes uh and

traffic mitigation. We're happy to uh work with the city in order to address some traffic concerns. Uh essentially anything that is put there absent the unimproved property as it is will increase traffic. The question is who's going to partner with the city in order to put a development there that uh complements what the neighbors might need when it comes to commercial uses. Uh there are other things that I'm happy to address but with that I'm happy to pause if the commission has questions now or I can continue or do we wait to have questions on the back end? I think you will address the questions um shortly.

Okay perfect. Then I just a final uh note on each one of the requests. So the there is one request for the resoning that changes it from AG. All the surrounding properties are agricultural and that is considered residential. Part of our goal here with upzoning it is to partner with local agricultural uses in the area to potentially uh provide those resources to the community. Uh secondarily the special use permit is required when it comes to having a sea store with fuel pumps. That's just the nature of what the city of South Fulton requires. And then finally, of course, the future land use map allows us to kind of again have that comprehensive look and adding other uses other than just um that that commercial use. We are under no illusions about the community's concerns about the sea store and the fuel pumps. What we did hear though was a desire of sort of things that are nearby that could be useful for them, useful for the neighbors. And so we are happy to have a constructive conversation about ways that we might be able to partner with the city and the community to say don't do. So for example, we have no intention of putting smoke shops, vape shops, or anything that would be a nuisance or an eyesore or coin laundry. Um what we do plan on doing again is juice uh juice shop, fresh fruit, fresh fruit and vegetables, adding sidewalks to uh the property. Um and then finally again because it is in a border section and it becomes the great gateway to that Cedar Grove overlay district part of that property is already designated for um the city Union City. So you got a public storage across the street and so this area has already unfortunately because of where it sits more commercial. The question is what comes there and how we can make sure that it is done handinhand with the city and the residents. And with that I'll pause. I look forward to hearing from our neighbors. Thank you. Thank you so much. How much time is left on the clock for him?

He has 5 minute and 58 seconds left. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. Do we have any cards? So, we had the one card for which was the applicant and we have nine cards against. Okay. Thank you so much. If you want to go ahead and start calling um those folks up. So,

all righty. So, I'll call your name. Please start to form a line in front of the podium. Donna Sanders, last name Thompson, last name Smith. Corey Smith and Kimry Smith, Donna Gums, last name Lorett Williams. Cedar Williams, David Kzer, last name McKenzie. When you come up to the podium, everyone um same as for the last case, please state your first and last name and your address of the record. I appreciate it.

Good evening. Donna Sanders, 769 Dove Lane. Um I was one of the applicants or one of the people that attended the November 5th meeting and I have thought long and hard about this particular project. 92, Highway 92 from say Douglasville all the way down to South Fulton Parkway. The traffic is gridlocked as far as the eye can see. Mr. Washington was correct. They are putting two roundabouts on one is on De Mooney Road and the other one is on Jones Road. So now the purpose of a roundabout is to slow the traffic down. The traffic is already slowed down without the roundabouts. We have two traffic lights that are currently there. My concern is if I am coming northbound from Publix and this particular project is across the street from the uh public storage. That's going to further delay traffic for people trying to make a lefthand turn into that area. My main concern is safety. 92, like I said, as far as the I can see, the traffic is gridlocked. No units can get through right now. There is no uh sidewalks. There's ditches on that side of the street. Therefore, I'm asking that you all deny this because safety first and even more so, I can't think of anything needs to go on Highway 92 between De Mooney and South Bton Parkway until Department of uh Transportation

improves or widens Highway 92. Thank you. You can come on up, sir. Can you turn Can you turn the clock so I can see it if you don't mind? Thank you. Perfect. Okay, you go ahead, sir.

How you doing? My name is Corey Smith. My address is 4350 Oak Drive. Um, I also support what she said about traffic, but also gas stations just bring a host of issues to our community. There's a Chevron gas station close by. There's always reports of people having guns and robbing people and they're trashing the place and throwing wings and stuff all over the place. So, gas stations just harbor the wrong type of environment and that place is closer to our community which is off of De Mooney Road. Secondly, another gas station is being built on South Fulton which is Quick Trip. So, we would like to save the land for for better use. It's currently zoned for agricultural. We know the future land map um study is being revised and should be updated. And if anything, I would I would vote for a mixeduse, but not anything that would allow a gas station. And at this point, just, you know, just based on what things are, I would say leave it the way it is until the future land use map is updated. And I'm I'm assuming from what I'm hearing is somewhere around uh late January or February and revisit this again when when people have time to communicate what they'd like to see in their community.

Thank you, sir.

Hi. Um Thomas, uh 576 Ironstone Drive. Um, I'm opposing this primarily due to concerns regarding safety, the environmental impact, traffic, and just the similarity to existing businesses. As nice as it would be to have more juice shops and fresh fruit and vegetables, we already have that. Publix is right down the road. There's a juice place right down the road. We have enough gas stations, if I'm being honest. Um, environmentally, I know in the plan it says that there won't be an issue because they're going to use underground tanks. Those leak, so I don't know how we can say that 100% won't have an environmental impact on the community. Um, and then at the meeting that we had November 4th, the plan for traffic was for people to be polite enough to let you go. So, I don't know what the current plan is as far as working with the city, but I would like to hear more about that as well. Thank you so much.

Good evening and thank you again for this opportunity. My name is Loretta Williams. I'm at 7429 Jenned Drive in Fairburn. And again, I'm speaking in opposition to this development for all the reasons that everyone's already talked about the safety concerns, the environmental concern. Really seems to me that we need to be more creative than this. And what I see, and I'm not Georgia, I'm I'm from the DC area. I relocated here 15 years ago. What I see consistently in black communities is that's what they want to throw up is a gas station with a a convenience store, what he calls a sea store in it. I really appreciate that this is a black developer, but can you find something else that you can put there other than a gas station? It would be great to bring in a great restaurant in that area that we can support. We have we have money in our community, but we don't need another gas station there. So, I'm against it for the development that you're seeking. And I'd like to ask a question that uh um Representative Williams asked earlier. Would you want this down the street from your house?

Please direct yourself to the commissioners. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Hi, my name is Cedric Williams. I'm at 7429 Genedine Drive uh in Fairburn as well. Uh one of the things I'd like to thank you all for this opportunity. Um what I want to start at is uh everyone is talking about or in this particular documentation regional live work I want that section or our area to look like this. That proposed gas station does not represent regional live work. It it just does not. Um there are a lot of things going on here. One of course is the fact that yes, they traditionally do postcards and things of this nature. Uh quite often it's only in a onem radius. So therefore um a lot of things can be missed. In most cases, one individual represents 10,000 constituents. We have about 6,000 constituents standing in front of you. Um, we are often talked about as being similar in size to Sandy Springs. Again, this live work that that we're proposing, this is what Sandy Springs look like, and this is what I want us to start looking like. So, I'm I'm against the the gas station for one. Uh the gentleman of course um also spoke about four additional um um possibilities for shops. We can do those shops without reszoning this to C1. Um so as last statement in increase congestion I went to the uh uh G dot layout of um

um Hamilton Road for the roundabouts. It will be nothing but congestion and that will not start until 2028. So, I'm opposed to what this gentleman is representing as far as the gas station and I would uh recommend that you not approve this um his recommendation. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Hello everyone. My name is Donna Gums and I'm at 799 Codex Drive, Fairburn, Georgia. And I am against the gas station as well. And I've been I relocated here 3 years ago. And to see the traffic that we have on 92 right by De Mooney. I was in a horrific accident there that me and my husband was carried away only after living here one year. And to see more and more increase over there just makes me feel like how much can we stand? How many lives have to come into play? You can't cross. You can't do anything over there. You barely can just even make it through there with people obeying the speed limit. Now, the roundabouts doesn't even help that much with that. To be honest with you, I've had people that come here from out of town who don't even know what a roundabout is, who have sit there for 10 minutes until someone blows the horn at them. So, they assume that everybody even know how to work that. We need more lights. It is so dark. Why even on South Fulton we need to have a light up there? We need to look at the whole area and not what having a gas station knowing that that's going to add more to the problem. That's just putting flame to the fire. Thank you.

Thank you so much. And I know that the applicant had a rebuttal of 5 minutes and 58 seconds. You want to come back up?

Number one, I want to thank everybody for their input. And uh Miss Gums, I'm so sorry that you got an accident. Uh that that's terrible. Um a couple of different things as a threshold matter. Um in terms of traffic, there will be traffic there. We are not in control of traffic and if you improve this property at all there will people that come in and out of it. That's the that's the lure of South Fulton. People are coming here building their lives here. They are coming here in droves. So traffic will be here and from my understanding after doing several reasonzonings is roundabouts improve traffic flow which I think is the issue and not just congestion. So roundabout keeps the traffic moving. When you have stop lightss people stop they have to do a full pause and then they go and that kind of increases congestion. So flow is important. As mentioned, we'll have detail lanes. Another question that I think was pointed from Miss Williams about uh I believe was would I like this to be near my house? The answer is yes. I live in the west side of Atlanta. I live in Cory Heights. Um so I'm not far away from this community and this type of development represents the type of commercial mixeduse development that I think I hear the community wanting. What I hear the community not wanting is an unkempt, unmaintained gas station. And what happens with the current code is you have a bad actor in the Chevron down the street or the gas station around the corner and you don't put a a better development with other uses in the area that encourages other people to to uh raise the level of their com customer and community service. And so from my perspective, yes, I recognize why we don't want to just dump a gas station here, but this is not that, right? We are not coming to dump a gas station that's going to sell lottery liquor and bad food to our neighbors. This is an effort to put a gas station and a sea store in a community but at least gas station sea store other commercial tenants that we've heard from the community that they may want. Another important point and to to highlight I

guess in the discussion about uses in the neighborhood is that what we see in commercial corridors is that there when there is limited competition from you know neighboring entities folks avoid going there. They don't spend money there. And so we make no money when the community isn't safe. And so we want to partner with the city of South Fulton when it comes to flock cameras. We want to partner with uh the community when it comes to having adequate lighting on site and light mitigation. But we recognize that, you know, quite frankly uh the anchor tenant for us, the way that we can structure our deal and make sure that we're providing uh what we need to provide seems to be disagreeable. But again, our goal here is to partner with tenants that provide neighborhood serving uses, not intense industrial uses. And so, uh the general Mr. forget Mr. Williams. So, Mr. Williams mentioned Sandy Springs. We own a gas station and sea store and mixeduse uh business in Buckhead. And so we want to bring that a better quality quite frankly because we bought that one. We don't we didn't build that one from the ground up, but a better quality development down here to South South Fulton that is aligned to aligned with the neighbors. We recognize that they're high income earners in the city of South Fulton. We recognize that there is community that is young and developing. It's going to take partners like us, we think, to come in and say, "We can do things differently here in a way that set some real parameters and raise a standard, but not adding it. Allowing the existing uses that predate the city of South Fulton, like the Chevron and these many of these other uh businesses, um, I don't think adds to the fabric of the community, but that's our goal. And with that, I'll pause and I'm happy to answer the commission's question.

Thank you so much. Um, give me a second, sir. we can't address you right now. Okay. Um so at this time I'm going to go ahead and close the public hearing. If you don't have anything else to say I'm going to close it. Um commissioners, do you have any questions for the applicant or staff regarding um this application? And I I want to go ahead and make sure we hear from district 4 first because if you have anything, I know it's in your district. I I see the um the now for the staff. I'm not clear on that. Can can you address that?

So staff recommended denial for the reasonzoning and for the special use permit because we currently have a ordinance on the books that says gas stations can't be within a three mile radius and also they can't be within 1,000 ft of a residentially zone um land. So this property I think there's a chevron within a half mile and then there's a residential property within 1,000 ft. So those were our primary recommendations for the denial for the reasonzoning and for the special use permit and then for the uh the comprehensive map the future land use map um think the entire area is rural neighborhood. So to introduce regional live work would be inconsistent with the surrounding um the the surrounding future land uses.

You have any other questions? Commissioner Jefferson. Okay, cool. Uh Commissioner Jones, I recognize you. Um, did did the applicant understand what you just said? Yes. Was that was that shared with the applicant? Yes. About the three mile radius. The reason for the denial? Yes. Yes. They they get the uh they they get the same stuff and it's also advertised. So, they get these same staff reports. I'm saying when they when they when they applied for it, did was there a meeting? Did they understand that this is probably not going to pass muster?

So, yeah. So, they attend a pre-application meeting. We go over all the rules and regulations at that time and then they still apply. I think the applicant stated Yeah. I think the applicant stated that that they want to apply for the legislative waiver for the three miles, but that's done at the city council level. Thank you. One second, sir. Do you want would you like to hear from him? Yeah, I would love for him to address. Come on back up, sir. Uh it's good to see you, Reverend Jones, uh again. Um I uh I think the last time we saw each other was in 2014 when you were Reverend Warno at the Capitol for Chaplain of the Day. I I believe I'm glad I was somewhere you could announce to everybody.

No, it's just it's just been about 10 years since I've seen you. It's good to see you again. Um in any event um so yes we we met with the city council person and and expressed you know our concern uh about the legislative waiver and so he is one defended the community in the sense that his concern is that there is a desire for commercial uses in the area and it's not inconsistent what the communities represented and we said we want to do something different and we're willing to have the conversation the difficult conversation about what we need to do differently because we don't think that Chevron is entitled to three miles of non-competition when they are allowing violence and trash and chicken wings to be thrown on their property. We think that we need to put a better use nearby so that people don't have to be forced to go to that gas station when there could be a better set of uses where they can get a coffee, they can get whatever they want other than, you know, dealing with the Chevron on the corner that continues to make money, will continue to make money, will not change their habits. Secondarily, when it comes to our discussions with the city council, uh, city councilman, the general discussion about the near residential, AG1 is residential. So that means that literally everything in that peninsula that is a triangle property is considered residential. And right across the street, there's a public storage facility and another jurisdiction that city of South Fton has no control over. So from our perspective, what we see on Highway 42 is an area that is going to become increasingly commercial. And the question is how do you partner with the city to put something that is transitional in that area that perhaps was not contemplated when the city formulated its original plan. It this particular pieces of property sits at the gate day or gateway of the Cedar Grove overlay district and it borders two different jurisdictions. So in other analogous jurisdictions, what we see is when you're in that type of transitional area where you have potential traffic, you have potential uses, you want to put a transitional use that's lower intense.

And so our only option was to apply for a reasonzoning that allows us to put the commercial there. For us, the math question, making sure that we can manage a sea store and fuel pumps the way we know we can manage it because that's our bread and butter, but also have a high scrutiny for tenants through a thorough vetting for tenants and take seriously concerns that we hear from the neighbors about what we want to put there. Um, with that, I'll pause. I think that there might be some additional questions from the council. Commissioner Jones, do you have any other questions for him? No,

I I think the argument is very compelling. Um I I'm I'm just concerned of setting a precedent where you come in and give us a glorious sea store and gas station and then Chevron 2 comes in with chicken wings and and and does it again. Um, so it it just kind of forces us to to really follow staff and the ordinance on this.

And um, so to your point, um, you know, that's we know that that's why the final authority lies with the city council person. We are also on board with adding conditions that make it clear that this is for this specific use and those conditions to narrow and strict. If there are some offensive uses that we don't want to see, we are happy and willing to partner and say this. You know, I I use analogy sometimes. I ask my wife, "What do you want to eat?" And she's like, "I don't know." And then I ask her what she doesn't want and she has a very specific list of things that she doesn't want. And so, in the same way, by analogy, we know what the community doesn't want at a baseline. is not another sea store and and gas station standalone, but we know that there might be other complimentary other accessory uses that they might want and might not want to see outside of what seems to be offensive. So, that's our request. We are happy to again take recommendations to the sense that the commission or the staff has uh uses that they would say, you know, that they would want to suggest. We're open to those things.

Thank you so much, Commissioner Williams. I recognize you. Thank you. Um MK Energy, did you mention that they own they own and operate another location in Buckhead? Is that correct? Correct. Do you happen to have that address? Uh do we have the 219 2193 preach Peach Tree Road? Okay.

And so unique feature of that is that was a purchase. So that was not a development meaning that purchased an existing one, upgraded, made some changes, added solar panels, green technology. Um not in the same way where you have this as a full-on development. Okay. But it is owned and operated by MK. Yes, it is owned and operated by MK. Okay. All right. And my next question is how will MK Energy guarantee the quality of the tenants that are coming in? Because today we can say um the the fruit bar or the juice bar and the this and the that. But how can we guarantee that it's not going to be a vape shop or something else?

That's a vape shop is a very good point. So as part of the approval, this commission can say we want to come up with a list of conditions approval with conditions. And so those conditions can be no vape shops, no coin laundry, no um if there you guys if there's anything that comes to mind that are offensive, no, you know, whatever shops that are offensive, you can come up with that list and we would be legally restricted from having them as tenants. Separately though, in terms of quality control, you know, our goal is to make sure that our tenants are we're working with the the community again for specific things that they want. And if there is a tenant that isn't doing well, we don't make money and we aren't able to, you know, continue to conduct our business. And as someone who has had to unfortunately be on the, you know, plaintiff side of evicting commercial businesses when they don't act right or don't handle business right, it is part of the process of holding people accountable is having very, very clear and strict leases about the quality and the services. And I've seen we've constructed those leases to ensure that uh landlords and commercial landlords especially have a straight way to uh eject tenants that don't do well and and aren't serving the community properly. So for example, if you have a uh I' I've evicted tenants that were selling was selling, you know, expired food to um community members in certain parts of the city because they thought they could get away with it. And as a landlord, we filed suit and said we don't want you as a tenant. And so that's something that's important to us is just to make sure that we're mindful and minding the shop. And so um I can I can't make any gu make guarantees as a general manager because nobody can but I can say we have practices and controls in place legally and otherwise. If that sufficient answer

thank you. And last question who is Xanglu? There is a phone number in your paperwork here. Um Kirsten know who is young loop uh I'm have a reason for asking that that's all it's uh I I don't know that might the actual property owner the actual

we are the contract purchaser so just general big uh big overview normally for resonings you are the contract well not normally in many cases for zoners you are the contract purchaser meaning that your property is under contract contingent upon a resoning there is a existing property owner who has title and to the extent that we are successful with this reasonzoning we will close on the property so as to avoid a circumstance where we own the property and we can only use it to watch deer um because we would actually want to develop it. So I think that uh lady might be the actual property owner. Interesting.

And that's part for the course for resonings for uh commercial resonings is that you generally speaking go under contract. You go through the entitlement process and then you close as opposed to closing and then trying to reszone. Thank you.

Commissioner Devon, did you have anything? No. Okay. I have a couple of comments. Um, I'm g say number one is that I'm really big on not going against the ordinance. Like we we're a new we're still a new city and the ordinance is in place for a reason, right? You're asking for about three different things here and you're not even meeting the requirements that are required in South Fton even really I feel like just to even be here right now. I mean, your parking, you're missing the landscaping, you don't have the electric parking spaces. I mean, there are just several things. Even if you, you know, I mean, you're here now, but I mean, I feel like if you come, you need to come with everything that's supposed to be in there, right? If if you're coming with a request like this. So, for me, um, I don't vote unless there's a tie. But I can't support this right now. Um, with one, how the plan is, the site plan, and number two, I'm really just not a fan of the what you guys have going on. You It's the Thousand FT with there's another gas station here down the street, and then it's abudding the A um zoning properties, the AG1. Um, not I'm not quite sure how I feel about that. Um, I'm really not quite sure how I feel about that. So, you're coming in really hard with these three different requests here. Um, and it's just going all against what South Fton has put in that ordinance to protect our residents here. Um, I'm not against gas stations. I'm not against development, but I am against people just wanting to come in and just blatantly go against the ordinance, right? And I know that you're just you're here representing. Um,

but I I have to agree with some of our citizens here that I would like to see something else as well, right? Um, that gas station at um at 2193 Pete Street Road, it looks like it's a BP, right? Yeah. Um, I'm not impressed right now um by the pictures of it. And I have seen no aesthetics um of of anything of what this gas station could even possibly look like for us to even visually get the feel of well what are you guys trying to bring. So do you have any aesthetics that you can provide? Okay. I I have a presentation if you guys would like to see it. Um I

u that's if the chair would like us to take time to share this presentation but we did not have it prior to this meeting. We have we have we have mock-ups, but let me just acknowledge a couple of different things. One, you know, part of our initial outreach with the city council person, Madam Chair, was to make sure that we were having some discussions with him about it, and we recognize that there it requires a legislative waiver. I think the makeup and of of the city of South Hulton, the three mile radius is quite inclusive and broad, and I think it protects from bad actors coming in again dumping in the city. That's not our goal. And so yes, as a young city, I think you absolutely have to protect from people coming in. As someone who was on the early end of the city of South Fulton formation when I was working at the capital, I get it. It's important. And so our goal here is not to just go against the city, the the residents or just go against the statute. We're asking for a waiver because we provided a compelling reason of why we want to partner with the city of South Fton. Unlike perhaps other gas station sea stores and uses, our goal and in our discussions with the community has been how can we partner to bring commercial uses because this area will develop. The goal and the question is what type of constructive conversations can we have? Quite frankly, that entire area when it comes to agricultural many other uses will have to get waiverss for the thousand foot next to any other commercial uses will have to get the same waiver. Um, from our perspective, we again, our goal is to con is to partner and figure out what type of uh tenants that we can have in that in the location, but I hear you loud and clear about the concerns for the neighbors.

Um, thank you so much. And I would love to see and I'm sure my uh fellow board here would also love to see um some photos if I know that we probably don't have time to put the presentate. Oh, can we put it can we put the presentation up? Is that up? It's up to you, chair, in the Yeah, can we How long does it take to do that? It's a couple slides and I I got a couple color renderings of what we Go ahead.

Give me Give me one second, sir. Commissioner Bond, I recognize you. Yeah. Uh can the commissioners vote on whether or not we want to uh take this next step to take a next step to view a show these pictures? I don't think that's necessary. I think we don't we don't need to agree to to see a slideshow. Yeah. I don't think so. Can do we need do we need to have a vote to view a slideshow?

No, we don't need to have a vote for that.

And typically, I mean, this is something that usually folks have up anyways. So, can may I ask for something? Given the concerns here and the questions here, we didn't get a chance to we sent out notices to all the community members, but we hear legitimate concerns from the community. We hear legitimate questions from the commission. I would love an opportunity to potentially table this to have a discussion and meet with them and do a second community meeting. and if that if they're open to that just to hear if for nothing else it provides feedback to the owner um to see what other development could happen uh next because ultimately if we exit well that's what this will I I think you'll be pleased to see what some of these renderings might look like um

we can't take questions from the audience right now sir I'm sorry and I'll just say this also to the extent that no matter the vote here we will be going to city council and county commission or city council after this I will stand behind and I will give you my information if you guys have questions, comments, concerns. Um I won't take a cuss out cuz it's been a long day, but I will listen and happily and gladly uh take whatever feedback you guys might have. Huh?

I know, right? question. Yes, ma'am. So, are you allowing him to do his whole presentation or am I No, we only want to see the renderings. Only Can you let her know what slide it's on?

I think it's on slide four. Keep going. That's those are renderings of what we want to do here in terms of like fresh food, convenience store. Not the exact these are not exact of what the site plan would look like, but this is what our goal is in terms of the type of development. Okay. Can you go to the next slide? So, fresh fruit market, um coffee shops, juice bar, specialy grocery stores, that's the goal for that site. It's a 3.61 acre footprint. Um, and so it's not a massive site, but it is a again neighborhood serving type of development. Okay. Thank you. Are there any other renderings in there? We don't need to see the site plan.

No, these are there are no no other renderings. These are kind of initial mockups. And again, this also has to comply with the Cedar Grove overlay district which includes a certain type of aesthetic and so we will comply with that uh aesthetic. Okay. Thank you so much, sir. Um, at this time, if there are no other, uh, comments or questions from the commissioners, um, we can go ahead and, uh, work on a vote for this. Let me ask you a question, sir. Are you requesting a deferral at this point? Uh, I think given what we've heard from the community, we would like a deferral uh, and be able to to pro provide an opportunity to listen to the community a little bit more and perhaps meet with the planning commissioners separately and hear additional feedback about what we want to avoid.

Okay. Thank you so much. You can take a seat. So, um, commissioners, it sounds like the applicant is, of course, I mean, he we've already had public hearing and all that good stuff, but at this point, we'll need to vote for, um, approval, deny, or deferral, um, on our end. The first thing we're going to vote on right now is satisfying effect. So, if I can get a motion on the floor for all for Oh, I'm sorry. We got three of them. Thank you. Okay. Yeah, we need them separate. Okay. So, we're gonna do stats, finding a fact. uh finance effect for Z25-033. Can I get a motion?

I make a motion to approve staff's finding of facts for Z25-033. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. It's been properly moved and seconded. Can I please get a roll call? Commissioner Reverend Jones. I, Commissioner Jefferson, I. Commissioner Williams, I. Commissioner Devon, I. The eyes have it.

Thank you so much. So, now we will move to the vote for the approval, denial, or deferral of KZ25- 033 to move forward to the mar council meeting. Can I get a motion? I make a motion to deny case Z25-033. Is there a second? Second. It's been properly moved and seconded. Can you please call the role? Commissioner Reverend Jones. Nay. Commissioner Jefferson. I. Commissioner Williams. I. Commissioner Devon. I. The eyes have it.

Thank you so much. Um, so now we will vote on the finance effect of fact for U25-04. Well, actually it's one it's it's one um it was one staff report, huh? Okay. So I'll go ahead and combine this. I didn't realize that. Um so let's do the staff finding the fact for staff finding a fact for U25014 and CDP25012 because technically they did one staff report for it. So we could have probably just done it in one. So I I move to uh to approve staff's finding of facts for U25-014 P 25-012. Is there a second? A second. A second.

Can you please call the RO? It's been proudly moved and seconded. Can you please call the RO? Commissioner Reverend Jones. I. Commissioner Jefferson. I. Commissioner Williams. I. Commissioner Deon. I have it. Thank you for clarity. Matthew, I was saying that there would for the staff finders of fact for these three cases, you guys did one staff report for three cases. So, we're going to do the vote separate, but just for staff find, what were you going to say? What was Commissioner Williams motion? And what did you all just vote on previously? Denial. That was a denial of what? Of the of the of the reasonzoning or what? Z25003. It was a denial

for the reasoning. So now y'all go vote individually on the concurrent on the special use permit. Yes, I got you. Okay. Um, so let's go ahead and move forward for approval, deny, or deferral for U25-014.

I make a motion to deny Z25-033. We're on U25-014. Yes. Can you redo your motion? Make a denial. Um motion deny Z25-033. I'm sorry. 25 025014 I'm sorry. U25014. Is there a second? I second that motion um to deny U25-014.

Okay. Thank you. It's been proudly moved and seconded. Can you please call the role? Commissioner Reverend Jones. Uh nay. Commissioner Jefferson. I. Commissioner Williams. I. Commissioner Devon. I. The eyes have it. Thank you so much. And our last case is CD CDP25-012. Excuse me, Madam Chair. Point of order. Sure. Did just confused because I I I I was thinking that that uh that they were requesting a deferral. Um are we going to have discussion or we just going through with the vote? Um Um No discussion, just vote.

Well, so technically he did he technically would like a deferral. Um but the motion that was called was for denial. So her motion went was passed. So yeah, there was no sense because it didn't fail. You want to do a motion to to defer when we've already we' already the reason we'd already

Yeah. But if she um she th Commissioner Williams threw out the motion to deny, but if the motion would have failed, then that would have given opportunity for someone else to throw out that deferral. Um, and for CDP25-012, um, can I get a motion for approval, deny or deferral? I make a motion to deny, uh, CDP25-012. Is there a second? Second. It's been properly moved and seconded. Can you please call the role? Commissioner Reven, nay. Commissioner Jefferson, I. Commissioner Williams. I, Commissioner Devon. Hi.

Eyes have it.

Thank you so much. So, this CA, all three of these cases will be moved forward to the December 9th Marin Council meeting. And we did have one more item that was added on the agenda. And we can just talk about this really, really quickly. Um, this is going to be for our planning commission um rules. Um, all of us have a uh planning commission rules in our binders. Um I will get uh staff to email out the planning commission rules. Um our next meeting is going to be on December 17th um here at Welcome Park. So it's g we're going to have a month from today to actually go through these rules, redline them so that we can actually um pretty much you know fix them up, get them get them get them where they need to be. Um I think it's been some years since these planning commission rules have been really revised. Um, so I think as a commission, part of our duty here in the city of South Fton is to be a top tier board. And that also means to have um rules that work for the board and rules that work for the city. Um, so again, from today until our next meeting, which is going to be on December 17th, we'll have a month to review these rules, um, redline them, mark them up so that we can actually come together as a commission and actually go through and, um, tidy these things up so we can get, um, these passed before hopefully top of the year and, uh, keep going strong as a commission. Uh, staff, do you have anything for us?

Absolutely. Uh, as mentioned, the rules are in the binder. Feel free to take those out and take them with you. You don't I don't have to email them to you. You can just take those hard copies and do whatever you want to. Um, do I also have a question for you, chair? Yes, ma'am. So, do you want us to put an amendment of the rules on the next agenda? Yes. Um,

let me let me actually let me talk through that. Let me talk with you guys about that offline to see because I think that we're going to have quite a few amendments and I don't want us to have prolonged too much time in the meeting. Um but let's let's talk about that offline so we can figure out the best way to do it. I just know these rules definitely need to be revised. Madam Chair, uh Commissioner Jones, I recognize you. Can we read um or or add um Commissioner Plet Devon's birthday into the minutes?

Absolutely. And before we get out of here, we have to recognize our very own Pette Devon, who is also serving as the vice chair of the commission. It is her birthday today and she is here proudly serving the city of South Fton. So, happy birthday, Commissioner Devon. [applause] Thank you very much. Absolutely. Um, ladies and gentlemen, it's a pleasure to see you all tonight. We look forward to seeing you at the next meeting. Please continue to show up. Don't forget about voting. December 2nd is the runoff. Um, so go out and vote. And oh, I'm sorry. And and that's all. And Commissioner Bond, I recognize you.

I I have a question for staff. Matthew, if you would I was kind of uh confused on that last case where um all of the information was before us and the and the um denial was before us and the reason for doing so and and uh all of that was in writing and it's here. But at the 9inth hour, um the gentleman wanted to show his pictures or whatever he wanted to show

and the question was placed only to the chair whether or not we view those and I'm trying to understand if that's the direction in which we're going or would the commissioners have any say so if that come if that comes before us again I think in terms of doing a presentation, that's one thing. But just to show the pictures, I think if it's within his presentation time or if it's a lot of time for him, but I think if he wanted to give a full presentation, that would extend like five or 10 minutes. That would be a vote of of the body. But I think it was up to the chair's discretion to allow him to show the pictures.

Okay. I need to know that. Thank you. And and just going forward, um if staff doesn't mind, if if you guys would be so kind to just ask those applicants when they arrive if they do have their presentation just so that we don't, you know, we can have that in advance. I know that typically from my understanding, you guys typically do ask them for presentations and things of that nature. But um if if you don't have one and they are here, if you don't mind just doing a little extra work and just asking them if they do just so we can um save that time there. I appreciate And I think in his case, he could have just shown that presentation during his aotted time. Absolutely. And that could have avoided everything. Totally agree. I appreciate y'all. Okay. Well, it is 7:57 p.m. and we are going to go ahead and adjourn this meeting. Y'all have a good even

Oh, I'm sorry. We got to have a motion to adjourn. Is there a motion to adjourn this meeting? Moved. Oh, I need you in the mic. Oh, moved. Okay. Is there a second? I second. Okay. Okay, it's been properly moved and seconded by a raise of hands. Let's close this meeting out. Okay, so this meeting is adjourned at 7:58 p.m. See y'all next month.