School Committee - Special Meeting

Hello. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the, school buildings, facilities, and maintenance joint committee meeting with the, Sunghol School Committee. I'm Jesse Klingen, the chair of this committee. And before I take attendance and dive into our business, I'm gonna read this blurb that allows us to hold this meeting, remote.

So pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025, this meeting of a city sorry, city council committee will be conducted via remote participation. We will post an audio recording, audio video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the city of San Francisco website and local cable access government channels. That said, we have our clerk. Madam clerk, could you please call the roll to establish quorum?

Yep. That's a roll call. Councilor Davis?

Here.

Councilor Saeed? Here. Chair Klingon?

Present.

Alright. With that, everyone's here, so we do have quorum.

Alright. So now that we've established quorum before we get into our, agenda, I will turn it over to the school committee to open up their meeting. Chair Bhutan, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Chair Klingen. This is Leron Baton for school committee, calling our, meeting to order of the school building facilities maintenance subcommittee. Is Sarah Phillips, are you there?

I'm here.

Great. Laura Patone? She just texted me saying she would be here in a moment. So, we have Quorum, and

I we're looking forward

to seeing Laura in just a moment. So we have quorum and, Chair Klingen, we'll turn it back to you.

Alright. Excellent. This is our last meeting of, 2025 session calendar year. I don't know if I'll be cheering next, the next year, but, I've had a lot of fun for the last couple months cheering. That said, so I believe these items, regardless of what happened, these the box will be cleared out, and we'll resubmit some of these more standing items like item number two. But let's just I'm gonna go ahead and start with item number one, approval of the minutes of the school buildings facilities maintenance special committee of October 28. Let's just do a quick roll call on that to, get that business out of the way.

Alright. On approval of the minutes, ID number 25Dash1708. Councilor Davis? Yes. Councilor Saite? Yes. Chair Klingen?

Yes.

Alright. That's all votes in the affirmative.

Alright. So just going in order of, our agenda here, item number two, which is a long standing item that we keep in committee by, councilor Davis and basically everybody, that the administration provide a special committee on school building facilities and maintenance with regular updates about the Massachusetts school building authority process for the Winter Hill and Brown schools. We have Rich Ray. I don't know how substantial of a of an update there is right now, but, we have, oh, we have, liaison Radissi. Go ahead, liaison.

Thank you, mister chair. For the record, Yasmin Erdassi, legislative liaison with IGA. You are right. No substantive update on this. Just wanna share that the mayor and the mayor elect are, in touch on this where they're committed to making sure that this is a smooth transition as possible and that they are waiting for the recommendations from the school construction advisory group. And I believe that director Reish has, an update from the last school building committee to share as well.

The, the school building committee is now in a a cadence. We're meeting monthly. This past month's meeting focused on the educational plan, our consultant architect, Perkins Eastman, is leading a number of workshops with the SPS administration to develop the educational plan, and we have committed that once that plan is developed with the administration that we'll bring it to the school committee as the school committee did for the high school, vote to accept that. So we're we're tracking for that meeting. The work on that educational program will be, through these early months of the of the winter, probably come to the, school committee in, February or March.

Thank you for that, director. Resh, yeah. I recommend any you know, just so, you know, probably director Resh can't regurgitate everything that happened in the MSBA committee meeting, but those meetings are recorded. And so the the the the firm that we have hired to guide us through this process has a pretty aggressive time schedule that includes some community engagement that's coming up, couple, like, opportunities for community engagement. I just recommend you all you know, anybody who wants to see their presentation and kind of what they've been up to thus far in the short amount of time, those meetings are posted on the city of San Diego website.

The last one was last Monday, I believe. So that would be the the first. Yeah. It was on twelve one. So, yeah, check those out, and things are moving. Things are moving. So thank you, director Rish. So that one will be one that we wanna resubmit. So consultative, so you can do that. We'll sign up again.

Don't know if I'll be on this committee. Alright. Let's go right to item number three. That's an order from former counselor, Pineda Neufeld, that the director infrastructure and asset management develop a swing space plan to accommodate several public school students to mitigate the disruptions to students, families, and staff while school building is unavailable or during construction. We did discuss this previously, and there is a a plan.

There is a location. And, you know, there is an idea of what we can do. But furthermore, there is a memo attached to the agenda kind of outlining I'm sorry, Claire. I will get with you in one second. The, the COOP plan to continuity of operations plan.

There's a great memo attached to the agenda by director of office, of emergency management, William Fisher, who's here. And, yeah, this is just laying out a timeline. So as far as being executable, you know, there's still some some legwork that needs to be done. I'll let him speak to that. Madam clerk, I'm sorry. I see your hand up.

No worries. Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt. Do we wanna mark that last agenda item as we're complete or leave it in the committee?

Lance, can you just clarify? Because I've been confused in the past. Like, I know that we we were doing this practice of just clearing out the boxes, but then then we didn't weren't always doing it strictly. Sometimes things were kept in. Where are we with that?

Sure. I'm a

straight yeah. Happy to, speak to that. So the you know, as you recall, the the practice years back was to just, at the last meeting or the first meeting to renew all items that had been a committee, that is no longer in favor. So my understanding is that any items that were sent to committees for action, you know, for for to recommend approval or recommend to not be approved or etcetera will remain a committee. Discussion items like the bulk, if not all of the ones in in in our committee here, would would, you know, automatically expire, and they could be recommitted.

As to the to the clerk's question, it's a matter of choice, a matter of preference of the of the chair and the members of the My personal thought, and I'll I'll acknowledge this. You know, this speaks as much to my sort of, you know, executive functioning, tricks and techniques as anything else, is that if we mark things work complete, they then no longer in the or aren't in the box. And to the extent that, you know, any of us or any of our new colleagues who may or may not be on, you know, a certain committee, in in next year might want to go take a look at the box and see if there's items that are important to them, to to resubmit, those would no longer be there. So, you know, my my thought my preference is sort of let them expire because then they remain sitting there until you know, for as long as someone wants to take a peek at at what it what it is that it that is expiring. Right?

Know? And literally for no other reason than that other than to they're still visible for folks to, you know, see what's there and and decide whether or not they wanna resubmit something. But they certainly could be marked work complete. I don't that's not my preference. I I feel like we risk

I agree.

Losing items, you know, just from memory if if that's the case.

Yeah. No. I agree. We're gonna leave this one open. It's most obviously, it's gonna get resubmitted whether or expired

or not. Not that we're going to forget about this particular item, for sure, but just as a general practice. There are there are others that may be not quite as prominent. Thank you.

Okay. No. I I get it. Yeah. So number two, keeping committee, please.

Perfect. Thank you.

And then, moving on to number three, which I already read, we do have like I said, there is a memo attached, to the agenda, and we do have director Fisher here to speak on the item.

Thank you, chair. And through the chair, again, director Fisher from the ops of Emergency Management, Saint Somerville. So the the memo outlines a lot of the details. I will say that this process started in October. We started meeting with the school administration as well as city administration to establish a framework.

From there, the last month and a half or so, we've been working to establish understanding of what the issues may be or the risks may be. Also trying to understand clearly what the critical resources are, whether that be personnel, physical resources, and to make sure that any space that's chosen and any plan actually reflects the educational expectations that we have for our schools, and those are continued. And so that we're hitting all those benchmarks moving forward. So with that, we're

continuing Mister director, I'm sorry. Mister chairman, may

I interrupt for minute just for a a point of a call and a point of information

Yes. Or

a request. Could could I just ask, I I have this document open, but for folks who may not have found the link and are watching on screen, can I just would you just ask the clerk to expand it? It's showing up very, small on my screen.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm looking at my my my local version, but, you know, just so everyone can participate if folks are watching from home. Thank you. So I apologize for the interruption, mister Pfeffer.

Thank you, councilor Davis. It was very small. My eyes are not great anymore either. So as I was saying, so we we have a bunch of these going on. We've actually at this point, we have a cadence where we're meeting weekly discuss the different topics to keep this moving forward.

And the process is basically, again, that we're understanding those those risks and the critical resources, and then we'll be shortly moving into looking at alternative facilities and continuity options for to meet those resources. And from there, we'll continue on the planning process with a draft plan, testing the draft plan through an exercise, and then formalizing a completed final plan that we can put into action from that point. Without any other details, they will the other details are kind of outlined in the in the memo. I won't read through those in in specifics. But just know that the process is well underway.

And some of the you know, you may note that there's actually a skip from October to December in the memo and in the timeline. Is just because, you know, there's a lot of stuff to consider. We wanna make sure we're not missing anything, and we fell behind a little bit on the timeline. But we're still moving forward and working through that, and it's just making sure we hit everything as we go.

Thank you. But, director, in October, we were told and I don't see a reference here. I would think that the plan was speaking to the location we were given, which would be that all city staff would be immediately moved out of the tab, and we would most likely use the tab. Is this the is this framework related to the tab building?

That's correct. So we where we are right now without getting into the details because, again, some of this stuff is still being worked out. The the plan would be have we'd have the initial situation that would would be assessed for the disruption of the school. If we decided that we needed to move, the the initial thought would be to move into the tab and ensure that the tab has the resources to to meet the needs in a temporary basis. So it would be know, you the incident would happen that would have a very temporary basis while we find a more permanent solution in a different facility. Or if the tab met it, it worked out fine, but that's not the where we're going with this is to have a phased approach.

Gotcha. That makes sense. Okay. Any questions from colleagues on this comp side on this particular item? Alright. We'll see anybody. Chair Baton, take it away.

Thank you, Chair Klingon. For those watching, I just wanna note that the timeline including in this memo concludes in March 2026. So, director Fisher, if if I may ask you, what do you think being a a risk mitigation person, what do you think the risk of slippage in time is, on meeting that that, fairly aggressive deadline?

So it's, you know, it's it's difficult to say for sure because I don't know what's coming down the timeline. But I will say if if you note on the timeline that a large portion at the tail end of this timeline is to actually vet the drafted plan, to do an exercise, and have an opportunity to do an after action review so that the final plan is the best plan we could have. So looking at this, the the draft plan should be, and if there was a slight delay, it should be done around the January. If there's a slight delay, it could be towards the February. But my point is that at that point, we would have a draft plan that we could execute if we needed to.

It just wouldn't be fine tuned to a perfect plan we wanna have in place. And so we could have an actual plan based on this more comprehensive review and plan development for continuity in that time frame. Although having said that, as the chair said, we have a very rough draft of an initial plan that we could execute right now if we needed to.

Alright. I appreciate that. Thank you. Any questions from my colleagues? Alright. Not seeing any. I'll turn it back over to you, and thank you, director Fisher.

Mhmm. Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you, director. You know, I think this just you know, like you said, whether or not it's perfect at this point or not, I think this just quells a lot of the anxiety, that folks have that somebody is working on a potential plan, in the event that we, you know, had an emergency school situation because we're no stranger to those. And, you know, it's good to have something something in place, and this is a it's a nice memo. I I appreciate it. And we'll I'm gonna probably, madam clerk, I'm gonna keep this one also in committee just because this is kind of an ongoing so I can I'll probably have to reintroduce that one.

Got it.

And that'll bring us moving on to item number four, also from Council of Pain and Newfell that the mayor create and make public specific plans that outline the full scope of work necessary at the coming school, including capacity, time, and cost to host Somerville public school students in the event of an emergency and provide regular updates to this council until such plans are completed. We also we do have a a memo from director Reish who's here to speak this evening. I don't know if I looked over the memo and a lot of it. So it sounds like we're doing improvements now based on the fact that we're using it as a warming center, but these will be improvements that are working towards ultimately potentially having a school functional and operational school building in the long term, maybe. I don't know.

Director Reish, go ahead and

Thank you, chair Kleen. Yes. So the the memo here, this is still work in progress. The memo here outlines the work that we were doing, you know, specifically for to to occupy for the warming center, but it is also useful work in terms of occupying the Prescott Street wing of the building. In addition to that, we have just, excuse me, finished scope and fee negotiations with buyer, Blender Bell, who is the architecture firm that did the work at the and at City Hall Roof And Clock Tower, excellent firm.

So we just signed a contract amendment with them to do additional investigative work, in in the Cummings and specifically in the School Street wing there, to give us the list of additional upgrades that we need you to be done to to the building to occupy it. So that that contract was only just signed. As you've probably heard me before, it takes a long time to get those contracts in place so that the work is underway. Director Ralph Henry from Capital Projects is also here. He can speak to specifics on the work that's just been done, again, for the for the warming center and also what's planned for Bayer Blindr Bell.

But, you know, again, that's just that's kicking off. I imagine it's gonna be subject to a future meeting, so we probably don't need to go too far down the details on on that part.

Yeah. Just on that, though, director Reish, to either you or or mister Henry, the contract that we just signed I'm sorry. Just so just for clarity purposes. They're gonna evaluate the building on what it would take, you know, both, you know, scope work wise as well as financially to get this to be a school building again for

Correct. There's there's a number of deficiencies in the building from ADA to electric and plumbing code. There's also some structural deficiencies. So they're they're looking at it through all of those lenses and giving us, you know, a a conceptual scope of work for what would need to be done and planning level costs cost estimates for that. And we do anticipate that that that number is gonna be fairly high. Just from walking around the building, we know there's quite a lot of work, that that, would need to be done in there. So they're they're working on that.

I'm just curious about one thing. I don't see any hands from my colleagues yet. But so in terms of, like, the MSBA process and the feasibility and all that, like, how does this does this dip into that process at all in terms of, like, we have this other school building. And if we're like, would this work could this work that this firm is doing be sort of folded into our larger process?

To to the chair, unlikely. I mean, the the the first thing we need to do is assess the building. So once once we assess the building and have an idea of those costs and what that scope of work is, we can make other strategic plans. But I wouldn't complicate the current MSBA process by trying to inject this because it would be a very little benefit to us.

Yeah. No. I I wouldn't wanna complicate either. I just was thinking in their mind, in MSBA's mind, we have what is officially a school building under the control of the school department that is unused right now. So I didn't know if that was, like, a red flag for them or something. You know? Not from our side. Certainly.

Not particularly.

Not particularly. Any questions from colleagues on on this? This is a work in progress. You know, probably we'll work complete this one and then put something in in the future.

Yeah, mister chairman.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, mister. Yeah.

I I guess thank you, mister chair. So I just sort of thinking thank you for that question. Sort of thinking about that, and this is something that I've been sort of kicking around a bunch in the last few weeks as well as we think about the the Winter Hill School project. You know? So there's, I mean, I guess, at least three school buildings. One that this that that are under control of school department that aren't, you know, active schools. One of those, of course, being the witch the the Edgewood School, which is very much is active and very much is the Witcher Hill School right now. And, obviously, the other being the 1895 Building, which I don't think anyone reasonably anticipates being used for a school building ever again. At least, I don't. You know?

But the the, you know, the Cumming School certainly is is, you know, a different category. And I guess to your question, I don't know if this is a question more or more sort of thinking out loud. Like, you know, given the improvements that we're doing to use it as a warming center and as as director Rache noted, you know, getting a a handle on what else would be needed to, make it a a possible swing space. I guess your your your question about whether the the, SBA process, whether that might be a relevant point, I think, you know, I'm trying to think of, wait a minute to make this sort of phrase this in a question, but, I I'll stop trying. I I guess maybe it's more relevant in that, you know, once we are through the Winter Hill process, as we look at, you know, what is the future of the the building that contains the Brown School right now, you know, that certainly could be a relevant factor in a, you know, a future, you know, reconstruction or even moving to a new location depend to protect potentially for, you know, for a replacement for the Brown School if that if that if that project if that concept remains separate.

So I think this is this is actually great. I mean, it's important work and and, seems like it'll open up, you know, a number of other opportunities going forward in in, you know, in few years down the road when if and when we get to that point. So, yeah, couldn't come up with a question there, but just thinking out loud. Thank you, mister Jeff.

Well, I just got one quick question, which is that through you, to, I'm sorry, to director Rations. Like, these improvements that we have done or are doing, like, did they don't hit any trigger for, like, having to go full ADA or anything like that. Right? It's not is it, like, a $300,000 number or something like that? Or

Yeah. Through through the chair. The the work that we've been doing is largely code compliant work and ADA work, which doesn't, like, self trigger other things.

Mhmm.

But it it does even even if it doesn't make the Prescott Wing viable for educational purposes, it may very well make that wing viable for other functions that would then free up space at, say, the tab. You know? Like, it it can it can be looked at in in that sort of overall portfolio. If if not directly for student education, it it it it gives us additional space to to shift things around.

Yeah. Mean, god forbid, we need that West Wing for people from the TAB that because the kids have to go into the TAB. So but but, yeah, that's good work. You wanna add anything, mister Henry, before we turn it over to the school committee? I don't see any other hands from colleagues.

Nope. No. I think Rich pretty much hit that on the head. Most of the the work that we're doing right now is really just to bring the, you know, the code compliant issues, fire alarm system, for example, you know, restrooms to be compliant just, in some additional heating capacity in those rooms, which would obviously be needed for the Warmley Center.

Great. Alright. Chair Baton, I don't know who was up first on your order, but, I see both of your colleagues with their hands up.

Yeah. Thanks, chair Klingon. I saw Ms. Baton first, so we'll go to her.

Thank you. Can you hear me?

Yep. It's

loud and

clear. Awesome.

Thank you. Thanks for this. I just have there's one short question and then one it's not a long question, but, is Bayer Bunder the group that worked on the master planning, like, five or six years ago?

No. It's in the chair.

Yes. They've So they've done just for context for the committee, they've actually done some analysis on this building because it was part of the original master planning work. Obviously, this is gonna be in more detail and the building.

Through the chair, buyer blender bill did not investigate the Cummings Building, but they are familiar with all of the other buildings in our functioning.

Okay. Was there a different organization that looked at the Cummings, or it just didn't get looked at in that way?

The Cummings was not looked at.

Oh, okay. Thank you for that reminder. And then I'm just gonna ask my other question, which is I think I wanna make sure I understand in terms of the process for this building in general. You know, we know we have multiple potential uses. One of them is to for administration purposes. But it for I wanna make sure I understand. I think this work of assessing and evaluating the building has to be done either way to make a decision about how to disposition the building. Correct?

Correct.

Mhmm. Okay. So good. So this is the foundation work that we have to do either way so that we can make choices that are thoughtful, and the school committee can choose whether or not to maintain the building under can you not hear me? You can hear me.

We can hear

or not to maintain the building okay. Good. Sorry. Whether or not we're going to keep them building as a school and their our portfolio or whether or not we're gonna release the building and it goes to the city. But this is the foundation work that has to happen in order to make those choices. So that's correct?

Through the chair, that is correct.

Excellent. Thank you, Ms. Baton. Yeah. I think, she's traveling right now, and I appreciate her, making this a priority so she can participate regardless. We'll go to doctor Phillips.

Thanks, Surya Chair. Just wanted to clarify. Right? Like, the potential uses that the district is aligning around, and I don't know if miss Berry is here. Oh, you are. You can tell me if I'm wrong. Right? The potential uses are adult office space, places for scale, places for all our basic need stuff, potential swing space if we have to do renovations on a school. Am I missing any of the purposes that the district is considering at this point?

No. I don't believe so. Thank you.

K.

I'll ask a question of maybe in the memo, but, and apologies if it is. But, wondering, now that the contract is signed with, I'm gonna call it BBB. When do we anticipate that, that work in evaluation being completed?

Ralph, do you have a timetable from them yet? I know we're kicking it off real soon.

Yeah. We're kicking it off very soon. I would say probably, to be conservative, it'd probably be about two two to three months for them to gather everything. And I apologize. I should say through the chair. It'll probably take about three months for them to pull everything together. Again, they bring in building envelope specialists, MEP specialists, ADA, you know, looking at any additional access for the building, including elevators, things of that nature. So they bring a whole gamut, including energy, stretch code, food service. You know? So they look at all the different angles through that review.

Okay. And just to follow-up there, after that evaluation, presumably, issue some sort of report and, give that to the city. Is that I mean, so it's sounding like a few months is is the kind of projected timeline. Are you thinking that's the rep that's the when we should expect a report, or is that, longer out?

It's through the chair. No. It's a good question. Typically, the way the process works, they'll they'll put together some draft language for us to look at. One of the more difficult pieces that has to come together is the actual project estimating that they use one of their third party estimating companies to do.

And, you know, that can take a little bit of time, you know, as they look at escalation of costs, things of that nature, and and and the whole gamut of what it might be. And, you know, Rich and I would look at it and and and discuss whether or not there are some elements that we might want to look at differently depending on what they proposed. But I would say probably three months and then having some draft reports and then eventually, you know, package together with the with the construction cost estimate.

Okay. In which case, that might be another month or or so and building in some back and forth, seeing a a thumbs up

of expiration.

That's reasonable.

So so I you know, my suggestion then would would be for us to, keep this in the back of our minds for, for the, I don't know, May timeline, when when that work may be complete, And and there may have been some time to synthesize that at the city side and and have an informed discussion here with the joint committee. So great. That that sounds excellent to me, and I appreciate the hard work that has gone into securing the bid and the commitment to, to moving this forward. So nothing more for me. We'll turn it back over to you, Chair, Clean.

Thank you. Yeah. You know, since we're looking at, you know, May, probably, like, five months before that report's ready for prime time and for these guys to come back and and present that report, I'm just gonna work complete this one, madam clerk. It's okay. Get that out of the box.

Anybody else have anything on that? Okay. Moving on to item number five, from council Saeed that the director of infrastructure and asset management and the director of office of sustainability environment provide a written report to this council by July 1 regarding any updates on measures and practices taken to assess, monitor, maintain, and improve helpfulness of the school's physical environment. I is I know do you wanna give some background, some context to it, counselor Saeed? I I was gonna say I know that, liaison Radissi Radassi, sorry, is here to just to get know, say that, like, they're not quite ready.

But it would be helpful just to hear sort of what you're thinking wise with this order in terms of the scope. You know? I mean, it it seems like it's pretty wide and that it could include, like, you know, I don't know, filtration systems or something. I'm or, you know, just reading it on face value. I I it I found it somewhat daunting, but, certainly important. So go ahead and take it away, councilor Syed.

Through the chair, thank you, for that introduction. So this is, as you all know, back in 2024, we we, as a city council and a school committee, passed a resolution on actions to promote student and community health and resilience in the area of climate change. And in the resolution outlines steps that we can all obviously, you know, we don't need to stick to what's in the resolution, but the hope was to work together so that we can achieve the carbonization of the school buildings. And in the resolution, it says that starting twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five school year, both bodies will receive an update on this work by July 1. I put in this order back in May or June, So that's why it's appearing on today's agenda, and I intend to put in, I will yeah.

So it doesn't matter if this one expires. I will remember to submit a new order. And I have been offline, reaching out to the administration, to, director Blaze on this and, also to director Rage, and it will be great to have this written report. Again, this resolution was passed unanimously by both bodies, and, I understand that we have, obviously, you know, things right now that are more of a priority, such as the Winter Hill. But, again, I would like this to not be just forgotten because it's important to look at the full picture.

We just discussed an item about if another school goes down, what is the plan? And this is how we think about this resolution is in the event that, you know, school doesn't have heating, school doesn't have, AC, school, you know, just I don't know if ceiling collapses. What's our plan? What's our plan in the next few years, and what's our plan in ten years? Yeah. So I have I haven't seen any communication from the administration on this. I would love to hear, about this and if we have any update.

Yeah. Thank you for refreshing my memory, of that resolution that we passed. I that that definitely clarifies thing. I'd, you know, go back and read the the the specifics on the resolution, but but, certainly, I understand the the spirit of this order now. Before I turn over to school committee, I just wanted to double check with liaison Erdasi that if you have a statement to make, if that helps clarify things.

Through the chair. Thank you. Yes. We are aware of this. It was actually, provision of the SEU contract, collective bargaining agreement. And so as it's laid out in that collective bargaining agreement, the next step would be for the school committee through presumably SPS legal to reach out to the city's attorney's office so they can figure out I believe it's an MOU to set the standards for what helpfulness of the physical environment would look like so that we have that, like, comparison of doing that evaluation. So that that's where we are at at this moment.

That's very helpful and makes sense. Thank you. Any questions on the

I do have a a question.

I'll just

Heidi, go for it.

Yeah. Thank you, chair. So when do we expect to have an update on this since we haven't received an update since July 1?

Through the chair. Like I mentioned in the collective bargaining agreement, it lays out the steps. And so, school committee through SPS legal. Again, I'm not exactly sure of the mechanics, but, would need to work on that MOU with the city, legal this law department. And I have flagged this for SPS administration as waiting on that next step. So, again, haven't forgotten about it. We've communicated to SPS that that, from our understanding, is the next step. So looking forward to hearing from them in the future. Yeah.

And that refreshes sorry, Go ahead. I'm sorry.

No. Was just gonna say thank you. But, yeah, it sounds like this conversation has to happen. And and, actually, I have not looked at the latest contract, this year's contract, and what is the exact language there. So we will we'd love to hear from our school committee members or the school staff here.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I see someone from the school committee has their hand up, so I'm sure school committee Patone Patone has something to say on it. But I will say that, yeah, definitely I know I remember we this was something that the council was sort of in support of, but it's definitely sort of on the school side of things in terms of the the you know, what what the parameters of what what what exactly the healthiness of the environment means. And so I look forward to that being sort of spelled out and happy to support happy to continue supporting SCU and and students. Your hand's still up, counsel.

You have more something else? I'm happy to no? Okay. Yeah. So with that, I'm gonna turn it over to the school committee, chair Baton.

Thank you, Chair Klingon. And I just wanna thank councilor Saeed for, spearheading that, resolution on the city council side. I was very pleased to work with her on that and advocates, because we did pass our own version of that. It was nearly identical to the city council side, and I think it sent a powerful statement that both bodies are are committed to that that important work, as is, the SEU. So, really pleased to be working, in partnership. I see Ms. Patton has her hand up, so I will go to you, Ms. Patton.

Thank you. Can you hear me?

And, announcement behind you.

Yes. The cafe par is now open. So in case she wanted a microwave cheeseburger, you're all set. I had a side comment. So, yes, I I very much appreciate what, counselor Syed has brought up.

And we, as a school committee, probably through you, mister Bouton, but you can decide, should follow-up with the superintendent about executing the work to create the MOU. But I would you could talk to them offline, but, also, I think we should bring it up in our school coding meeting as an item for board members, but I give them a flag. So thank you for that, and and we can get that ball rolling. I mean, I don't know what the time line is going to be. We're gonna have to hear back from the district, but, so thank you for that clarification.

The thing I had to ask about was, and I apologize if this doesn't fit in this item, but I'm just gonna put it out there and we can decide that it it's not relevant. But associated with the sort of maintaining improved school buildings, one thing that I've been kind of getting my head around is the MSBA has reinitiated their accelerated repair program, which is also called the ARP program, and that's focused on roofs, windows, and doors as well as they have a heat pump program, which could be directly, interesting in the context of the climate work that, through the contract with the SCU. And just for context, they awarded in this year, and every two years, they're gonna do awards. And so we, as a school committee, can submit for whichever school buildings we feel like we need to have a roof repair or if there's interested in the idea of doing a heat pump conversion on it. And I don't know if that's viable at all for us, but, so I just wanted to put that out there.

And I don't know if commissioner Reich is still on the call. And just to put also some one more piece of context is that there are schools that are in the MSBA building program that are also in the accelerated repair program. So it's not unprecedented that a district gets awarded both. So currently, Medford High School is building a high school, and then they've also had two other buildings that were accepted into I think one is just the roof and one might be a roof and heat pump, but I please don't quote me on that. I've tried to actually research and find the exact information, but this is something I learned through, school committee med for in Medford.

So you might not be prepared to speak about this. Obviously, the school committee has the authority to put in an application, but, obviously, we would love to do that in partner with the city and figure out because we do it in partnership. So we basically, the school committee can authorize it, but we can't do it alone. We have to do it with the city. And so thinking about the timing and whether or not the district is gonna be and the city is gonna be positioned to want to start working on an application in the '26 to put in their application early in '27.

Through the chair. We we wouldn't be able to physically do the heat pump, on the program until we have swing space, because the the the work that would need to be done in the classrooms would be longer than our eight week summer window. We would have to displace. So, it it's something that we're we will be very interested to do once the new school opens, especially if we have the additional capacity there plus, Edgerly to to start rotating, some classrooms and do that. So I think that's something we can think about further down the line.

We are tracking some roof projects for the Healy and for the JFK that I think it would be a good idea to start thinking about the repair accelerated repair program for those roofs as we're as we're lining up that work. So let's, let's strategize in the New Year on, on the school committee's assistance on that program.

Alright. I am incredibly grateful to Ms. Patone for bringing that to our attention, and to Mr. Reish for offering his partnership, and the city's, continuance of of, looking at those projects. So we will I guess we'll all stay tuned on that. Alright. Not seeing any further questions on our side. Counselor Klingen, I will turn it back to you.

Thank you, chair Bhutan. And, Gregory, did you just say what schools were I know because the Healy School needs a roof. Right?

Yeah. He so the the West Healy and the Kennedy School are are all in the queue. The West is further along in terms of design, and we don't wanna wait on it. So I think we would proceed with that project without MSBA assistance, but we could queue up either or both of the Healy and the Kennedy in the MSBA accelerated repair program.

Awesome. Alright. Anything else on this item? I don't see any hands. So, I'm gonna work complete this one, and then you're gonna give them to it July 1. This time for real July 1, so somebody's gonna be in trouble. Why don't you put 2025 on there? Oh, turn it back over to the school committee. I see, Doctor. Phillips has her here now.

Thank you, doctor Phillips. Go ahead.

Thanks to your chair. Just wanted to flag for, counselor Saeed. You probably know this, but the most up to date contract with the SCU is online, you could pull right from there for for your order.

Yes. Thank you.

So, say it's okay to work and take this one? You're gonna

Yes. I will put in a new order, and this time, I will do it in February. I know that we'll have written report in July. Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate our colleagues on the school committee and our partnership on this.

Mhmm. And by the way, yeah, that definitely did miss Patone, I definitely did follow within this. I mean, this whole committee was started out of COVID and all of the failing the systems and the issues that we found, but the ventilation systems is why we ended up with this committee to start with. So definitely definitely fell within that order there. Alright.

Item number six. This is a, this one so I'll read it into the record. Item ID number 251455 that from councilor Strazo, Davis, Wilson, Saeed, that the director of health and human services informed this council on which buildings have menstrual products available and which school buildings have inoperable menstrual product dispensers, and when they are scheduled to be replaced. We did discuss this one last time, and I'm not sure how it stayed on the in the box. We were told there was a memo, and we were told that none of them were inoperable as far as the school department as far as the DPW was concerned or director Carroll.

And that yeah. Everything's supposed to be in working order and that they're replacing them regularly. And so I'm not sure where the reports to the contrary came from, but, you know, that's what I have on that one. And I see I'm gonna turn over the school committee side unless anybody has any questions on this one. Councilor Davis, no. Councilor Fahey? Okay. Chair Tom.

Thank you, Chair Klingon. Going back on my notes on this, I recall we had questions about the frequency of restocking and also, about, the Argentiano where there are no gender neutral bathrooms, and looking at questions about, access to menstrual products for, people who would want to get them from gender neutral bathrooms. So those were the questions I had listed, and, I see miss Barry, has her hand raised. So could you miss Barry?

Just for clarification, though, just so like, I and I do remember that now that you're saying that, but we so but specifically, on this item, like, those issues were addressed. So, like, the questions that you just raised are a little different, but it certainly falls within. So, I mean, if there's any updates and any answers on that

Well, thank you, chair Klingon. I I think we had made the decision at that time to keep it in committee to get the answers to these particular questions. But I'm fine with it being a a new item and how we deal with this in the future. So all the same to me.

I think Ms. Barry had her hand up.

Yep. Thank you. Ms. Barry. Hi.

Thank you for you, chair. So I do have a little bit of an update from the director of the health school health services, Liz Cortiello. She is reporting that Citroen refills East Summerville every fifty six days and refills Winter Hill every twenty eight days. She's saying the difference between the two is, Winter Hill was part, of a pilot for the city buildings, and that is on the same schedule as libraries, etcetera, like city buildings. And the HEAR department opted for a less expensive option at the East because it was a new program that they were running and they wanted to see how it was going to work in the school.

She's reporting that the custodians fill all the other dispensers. So her team depends on the custodians to and school administration to let them know if products need to be ordered when they're running low. So far, when I've spot checked the buildings, there has not been any issues. Usually, they're at least three quarters of the way built and operable. And then as far as the Agenciano, there was a dispenser installed in the gender neutral bathroom there. So that was the only school that the gender neutral bathroom didn't have one, and now it is installed.

Great. Thank you for that update, and that is good news.

Of course. So it seem the program seems to be going in the right direction.

Yep. That sounds great. Doctor Phillips, did you have your hand up?

No longer. Ms. Barry answered it. Thank you.

Alright. There we are. Okay. Thanks for that concise update, and, I'm good with closing this one out, chair Klingon.

Thank you, chair Baton. Miss Barry, is that in, like, a, like, a report form? Or because when I give the well, did you get those notes, madam clerk? Because when I report out at the meeting, I wanna make sure that councilor Strazo, I don't wanna forget any of the details that we just heard.

Yes. I do have the notes, but it doesn't look like we have any kind of memo or anything yet.

No. No. It's okay. I mean, I don't think miss Barry was, you know, need new to submit a memo or something. But, but as long as you just got what she just said that most of the details of what she just said for the minutes.

We are all set.

Alright. Yeah. In the future, you can just if you want, miss Vara, you can just, you know, send it to the clerk to attach to an item if you have information on an item, and we'll get it attached to the to the agenda.

Will do. Thank you.

No problem. Alright. So item number six, we're complete. Moving on to item number seven from councilor Davis, the director of infrastructure and asset management update this council on how the foundation at the Brown School is monitored, whether mitigation is required to address any concerns, and if so, the details of those mitigation plans. I'm gonna turn it over to councilor Davis right away. He might have some, more setup for this one. Go ahead, councilor Davis.

Thank you, mister chair. This is just this is something that came up in school committee, a little while back, so I submitted it, through my role. I'm sitting on the school committee, and it was just noted that there's a what what what looks like something that might be notable to to the eye, but I thought we'd get the get the inside scoop and just make sure folks understand what we're you know, what the status is, how we're monitored, what what it might mean, and all that. So that's the intent of the item.

Yeah. So just just to ask the straightforward question, is there a known issue in the foundation? I mean, I've heard rumors of a crack in the foundation. I can say that.

No. Well, there's there's through the chair, there's more than rumors. There's visual evidence of a crack crack in the foundation. Right. Take it away, George. Which which has been there for for a while. Actually, I turned it over to, capital projects director Ralph Henry, to to give the, detail on this one.

Mhmm. Excellent.

Thanks, Rich. Through the chair, yeah, the the existing crack that has been there for for quite some time has opened up. Whatever mortar or caulking material was placed inside of it has fallen away and eroded out of the it's basically a sawtooth crack that kinda descends from one edge of the where it begins and drops down into the lower part of that brick facade that's in that corner where the tree is located. So we just received a purchase order for a contractor who's gonna go in and and fill that and just put some backer rod and some mortar or some more elasticky type of caulking material in there to close it up. But we we actually monitor it every quarter.

One of our staff, Kevin Hatcher, that works up at the Summerville High School, our green buildings manager, he goes down to the site, and, usually, I can try to join him depending on our schedules. But we check all the different gauges that are in the Brown School to look at them and compare them to photographs that we've been gathering now on our own for the last two and a half years, along with looking at some of the historical photographs that were there. So, you know, it's there. It opened up a little bit basically because the material fell out, And, you know, we're gonna be filling it back in for for two big reasons. One is to keep water out, and the other is for pests.

It would be a very likely source for, little four legged friends to find some warmth and shelter.

K. I'm gonna turn it over to councilor Davis, but I am just gonna ask a quick question on director Aisha, whoever. I mean, I don't I don't know buildings. I don't know how these things work. But, I mean, you know, you saying it's been there for a while. Is it just due to, like, the ground shifting or, like, when they you know, when we're pile driving a few blocks away for a building or something, like, building a tea? You know, is there anything specific that may crack cause the crack, or is it just age? Or

Yeah. To to to the chair. Generally, it's age. That particular crack and a couple of the other ones, we don't have a definitive answer and probably wouldn't until we rip down the building. But the the the prevailing theory is that the roots from that very large tree are are causing stress on that corner of the foundation and and have pushed it.

The and and this has been evident for a very long time. You know, the the internal cracks, as as director Henry says, we've been monitoring them for a long time. They they we we're now monitoring them on a quarterly basis, and it's kind of fascinating because we will notice that they do drift back and forth over the course of the season, almost as it goes hot and cold. That crack in the foundation has been there for a while and and mostly because that one's external. And as director Henry points out, you know, if if we got water in it with freezing and thawing, it would get worse or or a critter could get in there so that that external one is is being patched.

It's not a structural concern. It's just a, you know, element and pest concern from the outside.

Yeah. That's what I was gonna say. I mean, you guys know buildings. Here you are talking about cracks, like, you know, like, it's no biggie. Just assure the folks watching or anybody listening to this that, you know, there's no cause for alarm in terms of structural safety.

Or That is correct, Chair. We've had several different structural engineers and geotech engineers look at this, and none of them have raised any cause for alarm, particularly given the the monitoring and what we've been seeing with it. So it's we we don't have any concerns in that front.

Council Dibbs. Take it away.

Thank you, mister Cherry. That was my question exactly. Just to confirm that there's nothing nothing imminent that should raise any concerns or anything like that. So I appreciate the very detailed response, and I got nothing further on.

One more quick question while try to ask. When did you do you have a data when you first identified the crack? Like, was that crack there when I went to the Brown? It might been.

The first evidence we have is a is a report from, is it 2012?

I was there in '85. So

Yeah. So but but it had been there for a very long time. So so the first report that that we have available to us is from 2012, and it had been noted that it had been there for a very long time. And that's when the the gauges were installed. So, you know, we we it had been monitored for a good period of time, and then monitoring of it fell off, and and we've restarted, the monitoring with the past couple of years.

That's all from us. Don't see councilor Syed with any hand up. Turn it over to you to chair Baton.

Thank you, Chair Klingen. So I I hear I hear you that this is not a structural concern. Given that this has been an issue since at least 2012, I am wondering whether there is a mitigation plan that has been developed. Presumably, that tree, has not learned a lesson, around what is a permissible space to grow into. I certainly support, all of our green residents, but I I do want them to play nicely with our our structures, especially those that house important educational activities like our schools.

So that's one question, and I'll I'll just pause there and see if you have any response.

Yeah. I I mean, the the the plan is the monitoring, and and the fact that we've got that constant monitoring and are not seeing any, drift, or permanent drift there. Yes. The the structural engineers and geotech engineers recommended that we, chop down that tree immediately, but that was several years ago, and and and nothing has grown in the wrong direction. So I think the the best plan is to continue to monitor. And if we see permanent deflection in there, then have the discussion around that tree.

Okay. I appreciate that. The second thing I'll I'll raise in in this, you know, again, trees grow slowly, buildings, if everything is working right, have gradual, I don't know, issues that come to light over time. And my tenure on the school committee is only, you know, two years at this point. So, you know, I I certainly don't, have a long memory on this stuff.

But I will say that it would be very helpful to have schools brought in on this, and to see copies of those reports, which are happening, I guess, quarterly. So if you could please loop us in and make sure our school administration, miss Berry, is on here now. And and I I think making sure that she and others are looped in so we have awareness on how this is going, what the status is, any issues so that we're not, caught on our back foots here, that would really be helpful.

Yeah. To to the chair or and to the chair. I think that that's the most expeditious way, is for us to share those quarterly reports, with miss Barry, and then they can get encapsulated in the in the superintendent's report or or something like that just for streaming purposes.

Yep.

Thank you. I appreciate both of you, making note of that. Okay. Miss Pitone.

Oops. Oh,

Are you talking to me? Through the chair. This is Laura. I'm sorry. I just keep going in and out. Amtrak is not the best source of Wi Fi connectivity. I just wanted to bring up that this someone a constituent sent me the photo of the the gap, and I've seen it before. I I I've lived in the area. And is there a way that the city might want to make the situation that you're sharing with the body more public in some way? I'm not implying sign next to the crack is the right hand, but is there a way to make information that is being from alarm.

We've had it evaluated construct for a structural safety standpoint so that people don't find the building and and get anxious or feel concerned or stand the website that acknowledges that we know we have this structural, this crack, and we this is what we're doing about it. And so that if school committee members or city councils or even parents see this, that the the principal has some place to send people to. Or like I said, it could be a sign. I have no idea what you would think is the best practice, but some way to make this information more public.

Good, sir. We can, we can talk to the administration administration and to, Christopher Ames, about something along those lines. Yeah.

Thank you.

Okay. I I don't see any other questions on our side, so we'll turn it back over to you, Chair Klingen.

Okay. Well, I I would just say, to director Reish that, you know, something like that and those reports or what have you would be the type of thing you know, I know we're still flushing out what this public facing website is for the projects at the schools, whether that's the bigger things. Like, I talked about Chelsea where they might say, you know, the Brown's scheduled to get or whatever this school's scheduled to get a new chiller, but it could be down to smaller things as well. If we did have everything, you know, all this information house in in one location, that might be something, you know, that might be a good place for it. Again, I don't know, like, who's working on that or when.

I know that you guys are all busy, and I I know, as far as building out, like, this is gonna be, I guess, we need somebody on your side or, you know, the city side to to kind of flesh out what it where it is the folks wanna see on on a website in terms of and, again, this is all coming out of the same reason this committee was born, which is, you know, knowing what's going on at the schools, you know, in some sort of regular fashion. Councilor Davis, do you have a

Yeah. Thank you, mister chair. I I raised my hand and realized I should lower my hand and let the administration answer first because they know better than me. But I was just gonna note that we heard in school committee last week,

I think.

Yeah. Presentation by the the new communications director, I guess, that, you know, was I see sort of one piece of many improvements that I think we're making citywide to to, you know, to address exactly that type of consideration. And so, school district website, you know, will will will be improved as good as it is already. Certainly, it could be better, and and they're they're in that's in the works. And I think we've already heard in this committee a few a while back, I believe, you know, about the, you know, the very robust, you know, maintenance system that the the folks at DPW are putting together.

So my my hope is that sort of that's kinda already in the works, and those pieces eventually will will indeed be connected up and that that's already in in the works. But I I I agree with you, and that is you know, that that's the kind of thing and with the the member who who raised it, that that's the kind of thing that would be great to, to have. And so my my hope is that as we, as all of these systems are improved, that, you know, to to whatever extent they're not already, we can we connect those dots so that, yeah, the public has all that information.

Yeah. It just seems like one of those things where it's one of those like, everybody's on the same page, and everybody has ideas and information. Like, they didn't hire the new security facilities liaison. So now she's coordinating with the city, and it's just how do we get everybody in the same place and just get, you know, the information to the public as far as their school buildings go. On that, director Reich.

To the chair, everything president Davis said is is correct. A lot of these things are in motion. Moreover, in the transition meeting that I had with mayor elect Wilson's team. I mentioned this as one of three focus areas that that we need to prioritize in the early days of the Wilson administration. So I I I hope to make some headway.

Excellent. Yeah. And, I think council Saeed had a an order in before. I thought I put everything on the on the on the agenda. I think we maybe need to resubmit it, but it was around, you know, the the progress of that.

So so but the new new year coming and, you know, we'll we'll definitely be, this will be a priority for sure of this committee, in 2026. Alright. Moving on to item number eight. Also from councilor Davis for from the school committee and others, parents. The administration and the school department discussed with this council the budgetary and planning impact of snow days and how adaptation to climate change may affect future snow day planning.

I did have a brief discussion with liaison, Radissi. This, you know, this is this is kind of how how do you wanna approach this? I don't know. Liaison Radissi, I know you're not ready. The the city is not ready to they don't have a robust response. But and I know that going into Snow Days, it's a joint decision with well, it's a DBW commissioner who's on that call. They they have a system.

Mister chairman, if

I may I think a bunch of your impacts. Go ahead.

On on the side of if if you don't mind.

Yeah.

Thank you, mister. Yes. Through you to the committees. Yes. So this one came out of a sort of a question that was raised by member Green in in a discussion a couple weeks ago, I guess.

And and I I have the the pleasure of of sitting next to chair Baton at at school committee meetings. And so we sort of workshopped what what what what's the question here we're trying to sort of put to the administration, and I and I had a similar conversation then with Leazandra D'Azzi, trying to express that. I I'm happy also to defer to, to the good chair of the school committee subcommittee, know, to further articulate what sort of the crest was here. But my sort of my understanding was just, you know, as we look at budgeting for various things, particularly snow removal, and as we we, you know, live with and realize the impact of climate change, is there is there anything we should be thinking about, I think, was the the, you know, the the crux of it? Just sort of an intent to kinda put that question out there, hopefully, of time for this year, next year, four years from now, whatever the case may be, just in terms of, you know, anything we should be doing or thinking about now because, you know, snow budgeting is certainly related to the way our climate is evolving and changing.

So that's that's sort of what we're getting further. It's not real a really easy question. The answer might be, maybe we don't know yet, but thanks for thanks for flagging it, and we'll keep it in mind. Right? That that could be the right answer. Right? But I as I said, I I through you, mister, I'd I'd happy to to defer to to chair Baton if there's anything, a better articulation of the question or anything else that, he might add.

Yeah. Yeah. Because before we do that, I mean, you know, it depends on which direction you're talking about. In the last three years, we we haven't had a real lot of snowstorms, but yet somehow, I I wanna say that the the plowing budget was still we still somehow you like, had to appropriate more money or something. So it's Yeah.

Well, can I add that, mister chair? Yes. Just just so yeah. So for for my understanding of this and anyone in the administration or or who does math better than me in numbers and everything could please jump in. But my understanding of of that is that a at least some part of that of, you know, why why we see that phenomenon happening is that the state budgeting rules permit municipalities to to effectively I can't even think what the right word is. To to any budget overrides can be amortized over future years. Right? So unlike other items like

Oh, right. Right. Right.

Right. Yep. Pothole repair. Snow plowing is something that, you know, we don't necessarily have to budget it super conservatively, and so you can budget what might be reasonable. And if you do go over, that cost can be amortized. It can be sort of handled a little bit. It's little more flexibility there. That that's that was how it was explained to me a couple years back. Was like,

we hardly had any snow. How are

we over the budget? So that that's my understanding of it, why why we might be seeing that. But to your point, you certainly yeah. There there's climate change means lots of change, not necessarily one direction or the other, but I think the question was to, you know, flag it for something that we might need to consider at some point.

Well, that's just why I why it triggers me when I see budgetary, but there may be a piece on the school side in terms of budgetary that I'm that I'm not aware of. So, you know, with that and then also just yeah. So I don't know. Maybe I I'd like to have chair Baton add to what you had said.

Thank you, chair Klingon. And I I really have very little to add to counselor Davis' excellent summary of our conversation. It really did come out of prompt of I think, in fact, we may have been talking about our school calendar and thinking about snow days, and that may have morphed into a conversation about snow removal and, you know, thinking about how projections of climate change have us receiving less in some models and more in other models of snow and ice. And, you know, there's really with more moisture in the air from from a warming climate, we may actually get more precipitation. So, there's there's a lot of complexities around this.

And, I I do hope our our city staff are thinking about this, more cogently than I am. So I I would be very interested. And and I see commissioner Latham has her hand up, so I'm happy to defer to her about, this conversation.

Hi there. Jill Latham, commissioner DPW, hello committee. I just kinda wanna give you guys some context about snow removal and budget budget stuff. So when we it doesn't really necessarily equate to a budgetary number and the amount of snow we got through the season. So anytime we have any sort of snow event coming, we have to be prepared.

And a part of that being prepared is is planning and making sure that we have the contractors and the vendors and the staff on-site and ready. Because in New England, it may be forecasted for two inches, and then we get four. It may be forecasted for for six inches, and we get two. We still have to be ready regardless. And so the reason why we've been so successful in some of it was that we really have cultivated a strong group of vendors, of snow removal vendors, and staff members who are trained to kind of remove snow.

So a lot of time you know, a lot of times, like, we don't wanna lose a snow vendor going out of town because, you know, we didn't call them in, or we didn't have them ready, we didn't they didn't participate. We have snow drills every single year, the Sunday before Thanksgiving. We bring in all of our vendors. We bring in all of our snow our internal pile drivers, and we actually practice our roots. And we practice because there's always new infrastructure, new bike lanes, new bump outs, and everyone has to kinda get familiar refamiliarize themselves with the city of Somerville in our in our snow our snow needs.

This is why, again, we're so successful. So I just wanna make sure people understand, you know, if you see a high number of of a snow budget and we say, oh, this is not that much. We still have to be ready and prepared to do our due diligence. Also, this significant amount of the community path and ice and things like that, bus stops, we we are very diligent and very invested in making sure that everyone here in Somerville can get around and with mobility, whether they're walking, biking, taking bus, or using their car. Also, keep in mind, unfortunately, Somerville is a pass through for many commuters.

And, you know, as people pass through Somerville, it's vastly different than other communities they're coming from trying to get through Somerville. So I just wanna give people some context of snow removal and how complex it is, just so everyone has an understanding about the budget and snow and how we kinda do that here at DPW.

Great. And if I could

just take a moment to thank you and your staff, Commissioner Lathen, for the important work that you do that keeps our students and families, thinking about that in our side, but all of our residents safe, during the inclement weather season and year round. So that is, very important work and, you know, foundational to what we wanna do here in in Somerville. So thanks for that. Chair Klingen.

Thank you. Yeah. And thank you, Commissioner, for the context. That's kinda what I was getting at is that, like, snow operations, it's it's it's near impossible to to to figure out, like you said, well, you know, in terms of budgeting because of the fact that we have to have everybody at the ready. The salt still needs to go down.

Contracts are still out there. I guess the just because I usually get really technical with these council orders. You know, the second line about how it may affect future snow day planning, I don't know if there's anybody that can speak to that or why what what that piece of this item is ref like, is referring to because Oh, you know what, Commissioner? Maybe you can can you just speak to the, for instance, the the snow day, you know, when you when you you all do get together and huddle and call a snow day, it usually coincides with the snow emergency. Right? Or or can you just explain that process real quick? I might just kinda speak to that, and then we can move on.

Yes. Through the chairs. So when we look at the forecast and, you know, during this time of the year, we're always looking at various forecasts. We have different subscriptions that we have to look at the weather. We also, you know, tune tune to our local weather news. Everyone's sometimes it's a big guessing game. We also are part of the

the

Massachusetts National Weather Service, and we get those updates and briefings. So so anytime there's something that we that's being forecasted that's gonna be over four inches, that's when we lean towards calling a snow emergency. So I will call a snow emergency meeting or snow event meeting, and we'll sit down and talk about this is what the forecast looks like and the schools involved with those meetings as well as, you know, other departments such as mobility and engineering, parks and rec, libraries, communication, traffic and parking. We're always helping human services. We're we're kinda on that meeting, and I'll kinda give a briefing about this is what we're forecasting.

This is what this is what's coming in. This is what the time was gonna kind of land for us. We kind of have to call snow emergency to get people time to move to cars because it's that means you guys start towing towing operation. So sometimes, you know, ideally, you know, snow's coming in at at 8PM. You wanna make sure you get that snow emergency call by two so people can move their car prior four hours before that.

Sometimes you just don't have the luxury with, you know, the that's coming in. Sometimes they may not come in till, you know, one or two in the morning. And so we're like, we still gotta we still gotta get cars off the road when people come home from work, those kind of things. So that's kinda how we can it's just kind of like we do our best. There's been times recently, like, couple years ago, we had called a snow emergency, and it was supposed to be, like, you know, six at eight six six or so inches coming in. Probably about around we someone should get called, tow car's truck and towed, like, around 10:30. I I look at the weather forecast, and all of a sudden, a big update. It shifted completely. It was gonna be, like, less than two minutes. Was like, oh, stop.

Stop towing right now. And so I have to, you know, call the mayor and talk and say, I need to call this off right now. It has just shifted. We're not gonna get nearly as much snow as we need to, and we stopped towing towing and meetings. And so sometimes we can do that, and sometimes we just can't.

So like I said, we really work with the school system and kinda give them as much snow as we can. Sometimes we have to do a closure based on when the snow is coming in or the ice is coming in. If that's coming in the smack dab in the middle of school starting or school being dismissed and the health and safety of those students, we'll on the set side of caution every single time. If we cannot get ahead of the storm before kids need to get to school, kids need to get home from school, we we will recommend closure for for that reason to give our crews time to be out there and plow and get south and salt and salt and and make sure that they can get to school and get all their faces in school. So that's kinda how we do that, but it's a it's a long season for us.

But we we love it. We we we continue to wanna get better and do it well, but we also are pretty transparent in how we communicate to a city and to the school district.

But, Tricia, just so I'm clear, not every snow day is directly tied to a snow emergency, but every time there's a snow emergency, there's gonna be a snow day for school.

We would say it's most likely. If we're calling a snow emergency, that means there's gonna be a significant amount of snow, and we're gonna be recommending that that the we're doing the park even park out this year, and the schools are closed.

But sometimes the schools could end up closed, but there is no snow emergency. And so it it depends on the way the snow is coming in.

Exactly the way snow is coming in. So if we have a heavy band of snow that's gonna be hitting us, you know, say say maybe hitting us at, you know, one 01:00 when our schoolmates choose to to enter early. That's all that's all the school is talking.

Right. But but but when you but I guess the direct tie is when you call us no emergency, that forces the schools then have to call us no day.

Through the through the chair, yes.

But, otherwise, it's up to the schools. Like, if they you can advise them. But if, like, say, there is no emergency, but they still wanna either close the school or not close the school. You're kid. Yes.

Try and get as much information as possible when the storm is coming in, how much is gonna be there. I send out regular weather reports this time of year that gives the temperature. It gives the pavement temperature. It gives what's coming, what's forecast. I I highlight those weather forecasts that the school gets so they can kinda see this is the timing of stuff to help them make the the best decisions they can. So like I said, I use a system called WeatherWorks, and they give me daily weather reports. And this time of year, I will send weather updates pretty regularly, sometimes two or three times a day to make sure the school is updated on on what's happening. And, Danielle, I see you nodding your head. So yeah.

Turning it back over to school committee, chair Baton.

Thank you. Doctor. Phillips, go ahead.

Thanks, three chair. Sorry. I'm just thank you for this great presentation and all the work that you do to keep our kids and our families and our educators and everyone safe. My understanding was that a few years ago, we severed the link between an automatic snow emergency and a school closure by not letting people park in school parking lots. Is that true still?

Through the chair, yes. We have we closed those lots. We've we've got to be able to clear those lots and get those lots, be able to safely open for school operations the next school operation day. So that's now no longer an option. We kiss we have to make sure those lots are clear so we can do the proper show and move so you're so people so people can park, kids can play, and the schools can be reopened.

So you're saying the opposite of what I was thinking was wrong. We actually do have that link still. When we call a snow emergency, we close the schools because we need to let people park in those lots. Or am I totally

No. Screw the chair. We closed the lots. No one can park in those lots. We gave the gate them close. There and if there's cars in there, they get towed.

Thank you.

Mhmm. Thank you, Doctor. Phillips. Seeing no other questions on our side, Chair Klingon, turn back to you.

Alright. Madam clerk, if you could just, work complete this item. Moving on to our last item, item number nine from the councilor Davis and folks of the commissioner of public works provide an update on how snow and ice is removed from different types of surfaces in schoolyards, including any limitations based on surface type. I'll just say real quick before I interview you council Davis. I was actually thinking about this earlier because I've always I understand the challenge, and you can read there's a great memo attached, and we have a lot of poor rubberized stuff.

But I was trying to think about what it was like when I was a kid going to school in summer ball, and then I realized that there were no play structures in the schoolyards when when I was a kid. It was all yards. It was like you're either playing basketball, punch ball, kickball, four squares. Like, there was no there was no play structures like there are now. So that that was the difference there. But now that we have these play structures, I think it drives the lunch aids or whoever's monitoring the kids outside crazy because, you know, they're they're the kids naturally wanna go on the play structures, and I'm not even sure what they do with procedure is if they're not even allowed to go outside now or what. That that's that's something that that's unknown to me. Councilor Davis, you put this one in if you wanna set up.

Sure. Thank you, mister chair. As you noted, yes, another item that came, through discussion from the school committee. So and I certainly will defer to my colleagues on the school committee, for further detail on this. But, you know, as you noted, yeah, the the issue seems to be now with the, you know, new safety, surfaces that we have to make it softer when kids bounce, or or when kids hit that that surface after falling off the juggle jumper, whatever the case may be, apparently creates a bit of a challenge to to clear it safely or within warranty or whatever else the case may be.

So I I'd like to to, you know, at least through you to the members of the the school committee subcommittee. You know, if there's any further detail or clarification on on the challenges, whether that's the the the playgrounds are not open or or, you know, any more detail on what the the challenge here was. As I said, I I submitted this because it did come up in that meeting, but I don't have the firsthand experience that my good colleagues on the school committee do.

Alright. I'll take that queue, and pass it to doctor Phillips, who has the first question.

Thanks. Through you, chair. I think what folks have been doing, right, so when there is a lot of snow on the playground, it really, miss Barry, correct me if I'm wrong, but it varies school to school a little bit. But at Argentiana where my kids go, you can't play on any of the play structure if there's snow under it. It's just not allowed.

And so what the PTAs have done is really organize shoveling as much as they can, as often as they can without metal tip shovels, but people are hand shoveling, and they're finding it's unsustainable. And so I think this comes up over and over again. I think it partially is coming up because of the Kennedy School playground that folks, right, were visioning now and wanting to put in a surface there that then can be shoveled if it does indeed snow. One question that I've been asked to raise here, And so commissioner Lathan, I apologize. But the PTAs have discovered that a powered snow brush is approved for use on chrome rubber.

And I'm wondering, do any of our neighbor communities have one that we could borrow and try out? I hear they're pretty expensive, but it will be good to know if that's a solution for us.

Missus chair, I just have to say any kind of shoveling whether with a weather tip or not is damaging the surface. That is there's no way around. And even though so volunteers, when they do blow out and do that kind of removal, it is damaging the surface. And so, unfortunately, just because of the urban side that we're in and the type of the play surfaces we have and need that we need in this in the city such as Somerville to have these kind of incredible playgrounds and surfaces, there's no way around us removing snow from these areas without damaging the surface. There's gonna be these surfaces are extremely pricey to replace.

Sometimes you look at a school like East East Somerville that they have some significant damage to that surface, that's gonna require a complete resurfacing of that playground that we're gonna have to look at Capitol and work with PSF to see how it's gonna happen. But being a fairly newer school, there's still there's damage to that surface as well that we need to continue to look at and monitor, see what we can get ahead of so it's not a completely surface use down the road. But, that surface has some damage as well. So it's just kind of those one of those things that we are continually working within the city. I understand, you know, the names for folks not being able use a playground.

I'd I'd like to you know, how how ways can we be creative, work with different schools in doing, you know, snow programming, whether that's with working with parks and rec, those with creative programming ideas. But that's from a DPW's perspective. We just without causing damage to our services in in future taxpayer money expenditures, we there there's no return. I just wanna set realistic expectations. I'm sorry to be fair of bad news, but I don't wanna pretend like that we have some great grand idea that we can never bring to life.

Doctor Phillips, you have a follow-up.

Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for that, commissioner Lathan. I hear you. And I think the PTA hears you too because what they're really wanting me to ask about is can the city borrow or find or try a powered snow brush, which does not have metal and seems like you can use it on crumb rubber? Or give me some information or share with them some information about why that's not a solution for our playgrounds.

Susan, those brushes are made for synthetic turf surfaces. So those blades of plastic that's underneath that with that infill. So you have the in you have the padding. You have the infill, which is the chrome rubber or whatever it is, and you have those blades of movable plastic. Plastic.

Those brushes are made to kind of break up that movable plastic brass things. That's not what a play surface is. That is that that rubberized surface that's not had the movable kind of blades of plastic that the infill set into. So that kind of brush is just kind of basically, if you would take that same brush and go over you go over a newly polished floor in your home to pick up, you know, dust and materials that the that the kids have spilled. It's just not gonna do what you think it's gonna do, but eventually just continue to scratch your hardwood floors.

Thank you.

Alright. Thanks, Doctor. Phillips. I I will just take this, opportunity. I think I was getting a lot of the same feedback Doctor. Phillips was getting, both about the the questions about the powered brush. So thank you for shedding some light on that. I think what, and there was a lot of terrific, very detailed information in your memo, commissioner Lathan, about the different surfaces, really responsive to our question. Right? What what is the snow removal?

And, Clerk, if I could ask you to zoom in on that, on that memo there. Thank you. What are the different types of surfaces? How do we remove snow from these surfaces on schoolyards? The answer for many types of surfaces, according to the memo, is we can't do it.

We can't do it without voiding the warranty. We can't do it without damaging the surface. And in the context of us building a new, or designing a new schoolyard, at the Kennedy, it really begs the question of, you know, what type of schoolyard do we wanna design so that it can be accessible to our children during the school day year round. Right? We have policies in our schools that, encourage outdoor play as part of the learning environment, where children need to be active, and ensure that they can use the outdoor learning environment in addition to the indoor learning environment to further our school's educational goals for the for the students.

So, you know, I think when we are designing structures, and maybe this is a question then for our I'm forgetting the name of the department. But the department that designs, schoolyards, that we need to be cognizant of what surfaces actually can allow for removal of snow and ice. Now we are at the tail end of a cycle of removing I'm sorry, of of redesigning schoolyards. Right? The Kennedy, I think, is is pretty much, the last of the schoolyards that are undergoing a redesign and and, rebuilding so that they are modern, inclusive, and fully engaging schoolyards that further our educational goals for the students.

But if the schoolyards are then unavailable during the school day for our students, that really poses a significant problem. Right? Why are we doing all this great work? I mean, again, it may only be a few days a year where this is the case where these, schoolyards are not available. But I think we really need to focus on what we are designing the school yards for, which is for the use of our students during the school day.

That should be the primary focus. And if there is anything we can do to ensure that those schoolyards remain open when school is open so that students can access those, that outdoor learning environment, by golly, we should be doing that. Alright. I'm gonna get off my soapbox. I I tend to climb onto it. So and I see Liaison Radasi has her hand up, so I will defer to her.

Thank you, mister chair. I actually did watch the school committee meeting where this was discussed, so I had a feeling this might come up. So I did connect with PISAF before this meeting to get some information from them. So from PSEF, playgrounds and schoolyards have a required six foot fall zone around play equipment. And so this fall zone is composed of this poured in place rubber surfacing or an engineered wood fiber referred commonly referred to as Fibar.

And these are the materials that are used because they are compliant with the American with Disabilities Act and because they have the required shock absorbency for these play for playgrounds. And then they also wanted to note that when they are going through the design process for planning these school years and playgrounds that there is an overwhelming desire from residents for poured in place and synthetic turf turf fields. So So just wanted to share that information.

Thank you for that. Go ahead. Sorry.

Nope. Go ahead.

Oh, thank you for that. Yeah. So, you know, just a couple of quick comments on this issue. One is that, poured in place rubber. I mean, you know, if you do I've been doing a little research online, and it seems like, the rubberized playground, like, mats, the flooring, like, tiles, I think they still have the the amount of shock absorber, but they're a lot more as a surface, they're a lot more durable in terms of, like, shoveling and stuff like that.

But I guess the issue this also runs into is for Jill for commissioner Latham is like, I don't know if it's a union thing. Like, who who would be in charge of those playground the schoolyards? Would it be the school janitors or would be her people? And, you know, what kind of labor we'll be looking after that. But but that aside, if the if in the case of volunteers, I mean, I agree that I think we should be trying to design parks that are usable, you know, throughout the year.

And if that means if there is another surface that is more durable, like a hero piece of saying, but I do see pictures and things about the the rubberized tiles. We have met some of our parks, some of the older ones, but the rubberized tiles, like, maybe those are another option. And this is something we we I think we should think about or look into going forward if there is another option. So I agree with what my counterparts in the school were saying. The last thing I'll say as maybe a potentially, you know, even better than the brush is, like, a leaf blower.

Like, for certain types of snow, I think you could probably just leaf leaf blow the snow right away, and that wouldn't hurt anything. So, again, I know that poses labor challenges, but I'm just gonna say that, like, that's what comes to my mind in terms of, you know, as an option to to move snow without harming the surface. And, again, it wouldn't be for, like, heavy or wet snow. Although if one's powerful enough, I mean, you could definitely get it off the because because I'm trying to figure out if it's just the ground or if we would have to clear off the play structures themselves, and that would be really tricky. So you're just talking about just the they're still allowed to go on them if alright.

Chirupatong, go ahead if you have the answer to that.

No. Sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off.

No. No. I don't

have an answer to your question.

So if the snow's on the play structures, they're still not gonna be able to go on those.

That's right. And, you know, I my expectation

is I've always thought is, like, why bother with you know, because if if you can't go on the play structure.

No. I I think, you know, the con and I don't wanna put words in my colleague's mouth, but I think speaking for myself, I'm thinking about the the outdoor areas that we have independent of, you know, the monkey bars. I'm not asking that that we have DPW workers sort of brushing off every single bar on the monkey bars or anything like that. That seems not safe or advisable. I'm talking about clearing snow from the ground so our students can run around in the outdoor area outside of all of our schools, yeah, during recess.

Because we still have recess, and we still have outdoor recess, assuming it's you know, if it's listen. If it's 30 degrees and there's still snow on the ground, our students should be outside, by and large.

Yeah. No. That's that's helpful to know because I think, you know, that's the daunting part, I think, for probably EVW two is, like, are you talking about every little staircase to each, you know, play structure, or you're talking about, like, kind of just leaving, a a six foot, you know, circle of snow around the play structure, but everywhere else in the school yard is accessible so that kids could potentially run around, you know, whatever, throw a football or something like that. I mean, that would probably be a school case by case basis just based on how much of the ground is, you know, rubber poured in place rubber or whatever. So I think we have to do, like, an audit, but of, like, each schoolyard, it sounds like, and and kinda what that would look like.

But, I mean, it sounds like there's a real desire from both parents and teachers, that this happened. So this may you know, I understand we may never be able to run a shovel over pour rubber. But if if we could tackle the other challenges, I think, you know, sounds like that's what people want.

Okay. Anything else I want? If I may check-in. Yeah. No.

And, you know, my suggestion is going to be and I'll I'll submit, something through, counselor Davis, president Davis, to get further discussion perhaps, in the upcoming, calendar year on these questions around design because and I don't think it's fair to ask commissioner Lathen how we exactly we should be designing, the Kennedy or, other future schoolyards. But I do think that there's more more nuanced conversation that we can have with, Pisoft and, you know, sort of untangle some of these issues. I had this crazy idea while we were talking about heat putting radiant heat under, under the schoolyard to melt the snow. I don't know if that would, you know, be a possibility. Certainly, easier to to lay it, while the schoolyard is being built, rather than retrofitting.

So, just a crazy idea I had, but I see doctor Phillips has her hand up. Go ahead.

Thanks, So miss Patton is listening in at Penn Station but can't get into the Zoom. So ask me to ask this question, which I believe is going through you, chair, to miss Barry. Regarding snow removal, great information on and materials. Is the joint committee interested in learning more about, one, which schools are impacted by this constraint and how much? How many areas are not accessible during snow?

And how because it can't be cleared or it's unsafe to use if it can't be cleared. And the second question is how snow clearance can be factored in explicitly in the design of the new school building. She says, maybe it was for the high school or other buildings, but every time, it feels like there's a surprise by the limitations of area use during snow in newer updated outdoor areas. And she's encouraging us to be as thoughtful and proactive as possible.

Yeah. I think everyone's interested in that. You mean, like, who's gonna take up the lead? Were you saying to to miss Barry? Because maybe that's something she could kinda Yeah. Make a note of.

Sorry. I was just reading the question from miss Potomac. I think miss Barry has the answer to the question, and I think we just need a city councilor to help us put in an order to get that answer in front of all of us. So I guess, mister Davis and mister Klingon, we're looking to you next year.

Okay. We shall pursue this in 2026. Let's hope, we don't get any big snowstorms. Alright. Anything else on this? Any for anybody else? Okay. That brings us to the end of our agenda. I'm gonna we'll leave item nine, in in committee. Alright. Any questions, on any dispositions of any items? Did you get all of them? I was

I don't believe we specifically said what we want to do with item number seven, ID 25Dash1637. Do we want to leave that in committee or mark work complete?

That is work complete because that's I did say work complete. Yeah. Because that's the the the firm is gonna do up a report probably around May. We should be expecting an update on that, so we'll just bring it back in the spring. Alright. If there's no more items, councilor Davis moves to adjourn. We can get a roll call and adjournment when you're ready, madam.

Councilor Davis?

Yes.

Councilor Saeed?

Yes.

Chair Klingen?

Yes.

Alright. Well, that is 07:49, and we are adjourning.

Alright. Still waiting. Thank you.

Thank you. We are adjourning. Have a good night.