Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

Okay. Do you see clerk Fisher Casiel in the attendees?

There we go. Hello, everyone. This is Delaney clerking tonight. Apologies for the Zoom issues on the clerk's office side.

Thank you, and good to see you, Clark. Okay. Good evening, everyone. I'm Ben Wheeler. I use hehim pronouns. I'm counselor at large and finance committee chair. It is 06:02PM, and I'd like to call to order the Tuesday, 03/10/2026 meeting of the finance committee of the Sunnyvale City Council. Pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025, this meeting of a city council committee will be conducted via remote participation. We will post an audio recording, audio video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City Of Somerville website and local cable access government channels. We are joined by clerk Delaney Fisher Cassiole.

Clerk, could you please call the roll to establish quorum?

Absolutely. This is roll call. Councilor Link.

Here.

Councilor Strazo. Present. Councilor Hart. Here. Councilor Scott? Chair Wheeler?

Here.

Alright. With that, we have all but one present, so we do have quorum.

Thank you. We will be taking up our seven item agenda in the order posted. And as a general note to everyone, if I pronounce your name wrong or I get your title wrong or use the wrong pronouns for you, please do not hesitate to interrupt me. I wanna get it right. So item one, committee minutes ID 26Dash0295. Approval of the minutes by the fin of the finance committee meeting of 02/24/2026. Any discussion on this? Seeing none, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval. Environment grant environment related grant requests. Item two, mayor's request ID 26Dash0268.

Requesting approval to accept and expend a $31,000 grant with no new match required from the Department of Environmental Protection to the Department of Public Works for upgrades to the hazardous household waste facility. I believe that we have interim DPW commissioner Eric Wiseman and sanitation and hazardous material program manager, Mayed Yoshikawa, here. Commissioner Wiseman and program manager Yoshikawa, could you please tell us about this grant?

Sure. Thank you, chair. This grant is, is provided by the Department of Environmental Protection, for a number of improvements that we would like to make to our household hazardous waste facility. That is a bay located in, at 1 Franey Road where we host our monthly, seasonal and monthly hazardous waste events. If you have specific questions about what is included in this, upgrade, I'd like to invite, Mayayoshikawa to join us.

Thank you so much. And just to be clear, manager Yoshikawa, do you have, anything in particular to add or more waiting for questions?

Thank you, chair. I will answer, like, just the broad details regarding what's covered under the award. It includes winterization of window and water pipes, a

new garage door with a pedestrian door cut outside to allow for easier entry and exit,

purchase and installation of safety data sheets, application of an oil and gas concrete sealer, educational signage and floor markers, and then PPE and spill materials.

Thank you. Members of the committee, any questions? I did have one question, and this might be more about the Framing Road facility in general. I'm not quite sure what the the physical scope of the hazardous household waste facility itself is. I I have been told by some residents that, because, at Franey Road, if you wish to speak to someone in the offices, I believe you need to go up some stairs. Is that right? I've only gone to drop things off and talk to somebody in the kiosk before.

Through through the chair. There that that is true. However, we installed a phone, and signage at the water and sewer, office so that which is a inaccessible entrance. So if anybody needs somebody to speak to them, we can come downstairs and go to them.

Thanks. I appreciate that. That that answers my question. Any other questions or comments from anyone on the committee? Okay. Thank you both for being here. Seeing no more discussion, the on the table to recommend approval at end of the meeting. You're welcome. Thank you. Okay.

Moving on to item three, mayor's request ID 26Dash0270, requesting approval to appropriate $56,339.46 from the bike share stabilization fund for installation and startup costs of a blue bike station at the Boynton Union Connect Transportation Management Association development site. I believe we have director of finance and administration for the office of strategic planning and community development, Alan Anacio here. Director Anacio, if you are here, am I see oh, yes. There you are. Director Anacio, could you please tell us about this appropriation?

Thank you. Through you, chair, this is a relatively, routine, stabilization fund appropriation request back in the fall. We were received a, Blue Bike station, donation from the, Boynton Union Connect Transportation Management Association. So that we've gone through the process. We're ready to order.

Before we order, we have to formally appropriate out from the stabilization fund. There is a memo attached with the station specifics. This one has a slightly unique configuration, I think, because it's, like, an angled, it's gonna be at an angled configuration, but pretty standard item nonetheless. It's about a six month lead time, so definitely excited to get the vote tonight so we can get this order in queue. Any questions, please feel free to let me know.

Thank you, director. Committee members, any questions for director Adnaciano? I saw a mic go off. Now you gotta speak.

Director,

I I have a question. I'm I'm a little confused just about the basics of this item. It's a donation, but the city is paying for it. What am I missing here?

Through yes. Through the through the chair. Good question. We do ask the various development sites. You know, usually, it's larger developments that that trigger this, commercial developments typically. The the reason being is that the city of Somerville is actually the entity in the regional bike share program. So, you know, the regional bike share program with Boston, Cambridge, Medford, Arlington, all the associated towns. And we have to purchase the station equipment from the regional bike share system and their contract. So it's linked to our contract. It's ours.

And, you know, we kinda also wanna be in control of the process of making sure everything's standard. We install it appropriately. We get the contract rates, kind of all those details.

I'm sorry. I still don't understand. What is being donated here?

The value the value of an 18 dock station. So it's, the value of an 18 dock station, the slab that holds the bicycles, 10 bicycles, basically, like, the entire fit out of the station installation.

So is this something where we are appropriating money to to initially pay for it and that money is going to be paid back?

No. We we collected it in advance.

I see. We this money has been donated,

and now

we're going to spend this donated money.

Correct. Well yeah. Correct. We can we can accept funds into an existing stabilization fund.

I see.

Every single appropriation out has to come to city council.

Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Thanks for catching me up. Other members of the committee, any other questions for director Horacio? Thank you so much for being here.

You're good. Seeing no more discussion, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. Okay. Item four, mayor's request ID 26Dash0271, requesting approval to accept and expend a $22,800.08 grant that requires a match from the Metropolitan Mayors Coalition Community Safety Initiative to the police department for youth violence prevention. Now I know I saw, you, director Wisdom, Somerville Police Department director of finance and administration, Emily Wisdom here. And I believe you are representing the police department on this. So please, director Wisdom, could you tell us about this grant and the required match?

Yes. I just wanna make sure. Can you hear me?

Yes.

Okay. Excellent. So this is a, annual grant that we receive, and it is used for, it's a youth, a youth prevention, type of grant. And, this year, we have been working to to kind of improve our program over the last year. Unfortunately, kind of in the middle of the year, we had someone the person who was guiding this this these grant funds being spent, retired, and we have a a new person.

So, recently, captain, D'Oliveira was promoted to to the captain of community relations, and he's really, taking a wholehearted pitch look at what he can do with the funds that we have. So in the past, we have used this grant. It's it's an OT grant, so it pays for overtime. But the purpose of it is used for, hot spot patrols, youth police academy, and then youth basketball games that we've hosted with our our officers. We're still planning to maintain the youth academy and the basketball games, but, captain D'Oliveira is looking for, new ways to kind of spend this money and invest in the youth in our community.

You know, there there's been some conversations about maybe taking them to the Mystic Center or the aquarium or things like that so that they can engage and do activities like that that's, that might be, something that, you know, engages the youth and works into the overall prevention of, you know, our creation of youth safety, within our community.

Counselor, I would add on the back of that. Good afternoon, everyone. I would add on the back, on the back of that through you through you, sir, is this grant here, has largely, been extremely supportive and helpful in helping us reach some of our most marginalized communities, particularly domestics. We work with them in building productive, pathways and relationships with them, through sports and a range of different activities as Emily had mentioned in the past. She also mentioned captain D'Oliveira, who was recently promoted to the rank of captain.

He commands our community relations division, and he has the task of building out, our community relations and our community policing strategy for the police department. So this grant is extremely helpful. It's been a dynamic tool that has enabled us progressively and perpetually over the years to really be able to engage some of our youth, particularly some of our youth that have some of some of the more challenging backgrounds and or experiences. So I just wanted to give you some additional context in terms of how we use that and the types of individuals or young persons that we're looking to engage.

Hi. Sorry to jump in. Could you just, verbally state your name and, position for the record?

I'm I'm I'm sorry. I I didn't see you there on Emily's call. This is Sunroyal Police Department chief Shumaine Benford.

Thank you.

Thank you, mister chairman.

Thank you, chief. Members of the committee, do you have any questions for director Wisdom and chief Benford? Okay. Thank you. I'd be excited to, you know, continue to hear updates about this. It sounds like a

I've got my hand up.

Oh, please. I'm I'm sorry. I'm I'm not look okay. I I apologize. Looking at the wrong set of Zoom screens, and I see two hands here. Counselor Link.

Yeah. So I I love everything that I'm hearing. What I love less, I I'm looking at the the actual, the requirements of this grant, and I see that one of the provisions is, contribution, of daily crime data to, the mass fusion centers, particularly CopLink. So which would I be right in characterizing that as a system that ICE has access to and that we would be uploading everything from what I I I was trying to do some research on this, so I don't know if I've got it all right. But it it we are uploading data that would be stuff like parking tickets, accident reports, complaints, and, of course, arrest data.

Is that true?

Thank you very much for the question, counselor. What I would add is is everything that you just named is is a matter of public record. It's already publicly disclosed and accessible, for anyone coming in. It is a condition of the grant, that that information has to be shared. But, again, a, it is shared, because it is a public, public information and public reports, available, eligible for anyone. And b, the state, has, the relationship in the contract, with CopLink for departments across the Commonwealth to be able to access and use for investigative purposes.

Okay. I guess to share just it it sounds to me like it's a real easy way for immigration enforcement to get quick and easy access to data, and, you know, we've already seen some people arrested at our for routine stuff being arrested at the courts. And I I I just have to wonder if that's if this is if this is giving them if this is supporting those efforts. It it definitely it it gives me a pretty large amount of pause.

I I just wanna underscore, and I appreciate you sharing that, counsel. I just wanna underscore, again, it's already public record. Nothing that we are disclosing by our own volition. It's already public record, you know, the Massachusetts law a. And I do you know, I would hate to, you know, discard all of the enormous gains that we've made as a community by engaging this group, and I believe some of your colleagues may even have persons that are close to them that have benefited, from this over the years. So we have guardrails, in place. But, again, you know, public information, information that's accessible to anyone, we have very limited capacity to not share that information. But to be clear, that is a condition of it, but I wanna just underscore that this benefits some of our most marginalized and disfranchised persons.

Yeah. I would I would argue that it also potentially, hurts some of our most vulnerable people. So, yeah, I I I'm I understand the the huge value here, but I also understand that there's but it seems to me that there's also it's a it's a bit of a poison pill in there from in my mind.

Sorry. I'm still muted. Councilor Strezzo, please.

Thank you, mister chair. I will be supporting this grant. This is a grant for some of the new counselors who are in board meetings of the finance committee. This

is

a grant that has existed for numerous years, and it is also in line with supporting as some of our counselors have claimed as an important value, finding ways to keep kids engaged and also helping out kids that are some of our most disenfranchised in the community. This is an ongoing program that has been going on for many years, and a lot of parents are happy to put their kids in this program, especially the basketball game, which the kids in the Mystics and the parents in the Mystics continuously love to have. It is a big thing. And in my first term of office, I remember how important it was to get the, bleachers put in for the Mystic's tenant area because there weren't even bleachers for the basketball games. This is absolutely a grant that helps support our most disenfranchised and also many kids in the in our city that need assistance or parents that

need

more opportunities for their kids to connect with the community. And it would be disappointing if counselors find reasons to poke holes in services that provide a lot of help to a lot of the poorest in the city. So I will absolutely be supporting this. I've seen the good work come throughout this.

Thank you, counselor. Counselor Hurt.

Thank you. Through you, chair Wheeler, to, chief Benford. Thank you for that information. I just have a a question because I'm I'm guessing that this requirement might not be only in this grant. Like, what like, if like, outside of this grant, is that data shared through CopLink, you know, because of other requirements? Or if you could tell us more about that.

One moment, ma'am. This is the only one off the top of my head, that I am aware of, that explicitly, acts for this. I stopped full short of saying, that there may not be others, but we are not aware of them off the top. This is the only one that expressly, asked for it, that we're aware of.

Thank you.

I have a follow-up question, to that, chief Penford and director Wisdom. Is the the data sharing in question, data that we would not otherwise be sharing with the fusion center?

It's it's not the it's so it's this particular NOFO is attached to the Commonwealth of Mass. So in Massachusetts, as you and others may be aware, there are two fusion centers. The BREC supports the Metro Boston region, and there's the Commonwealth Fusion Center. So, again, other than publicly accessible information, we don't share, you know, certain reports and information are automatically embargoed. So sensitive investigations, investigations, involving persons that may be the victim of sexual assault, domestic violence, all that information is emboggled.

Thanks. Part part of the background that I just wanna recognize here is we're in very uncharted territory nationally. Right? I think in many other years, we could have a degree of confidence in the the range of possible uses of data that we would be sharing. Given that we are in this environment where there's there's a lot of uncertainty about exactly what the implications of different types of sharing are, I wanna make sure that we're taking seriously the the the challenge of really understanding what these kinds of requirements mean.

I do wanna want to really, express appreciation for the expertise, director Wisdom and chief Benford, that you are both clearly bringing to bear here, in reassuring the committee that this data is already publicly available. I do know that there's different levels of readiness of availability, And, I didn't you know, we're we're in a sort of environment where even something like this, I didn't catch this provision on, you know, page four of of this, of this particular document. So I I just want I don't want to, I wanna acknowledge that we're we're navigating something truly difficult here. I think, I can only speak for myself. The last thing I I would wanna do is arbitrarily stand in the way of, you know, what seems like a a wonderful program.

And, I do wanna make sure that we're we're fully understanding the implications of these various requirements before we move ahead. The that this item that seems so innocuous had something that there's legitimate questions, I think, attached to. I think procedurally, we as a a council, and a city staff need to to maybe do more to proactively note and highlight and and address and discuss the implications of these questions so that we're not, you know, we're not just in the moment having to make a a quick judgment on it. And I will go back to another cycle through our committee members. Councilor Lank.

Mister president

I'm sorry. Chief Benford, please go ahead.

I I just want to reply. Thank you so much, Sharon. Thank you so are we muted? Yep. Okay. Thank you so much for sharing. I just want to quickly, just share that. You know, I appreciate your comments. I appreciate, the the the ability to have a conversation. I just wanna underscore two points.

One, we are committed to this city and the value set as well. And we and our officers, our our civilian staff work extremely hard to make sure that we adhere to the value sets of our community, and engaging in and with our partners and accepting resources. So, we're all advocates tirelessly, in that place, in that space and furtherance of our communities. I would also say, that as we look at this this this uncharted territory, let us not let us not lose sight of the tremendous work and gains that have been made as a result of it, and the tremendous price on the other side of allowing some of those errant practices to set us back as a community. I have felt it directly as a police officer, and walking and working in this city, as a result of the work that some of our federal colleagues have done.

But I'm unwilling to give up, and remain committed to building on those relationships that we've born in. I would just caution that, by adhering and walking down some of these paths that we could inadvertently be setting ourselves up for down the road for what the side effects or the, you know, the, the backside of those decisions are. So I just want to highlight that that we're all committed to it, one. Two, recognize the tremendous work that has been done with the support of this grant and that we continue to do. And then thirdly, think about the relationship that this department and the officers do every day in building and working hard with those relationships. Thank you.

Thank you. I appreciate that, chief. Councilor Link.

Thank you, Jir. Through you so first of all, I just wanna address, I think, some of the the really the very great things that, chief Benford just said. You know, that I really, I still appreciate that that we do have, a police force that is fully committed to, you know, the welcoming communities, and making sure that that we're, we're trying to do right. But, I guess, I my my my question, I guess, to to put a fine point on it is, I guess, are we 100% confident that, the data uploaded to CopLink will not result in, an ICE action against one of our residents?

Thank you very much for the question. I I think you're asking a question that, I can't answer. I think just as we've mentioned, right, 100%, this this administration, and some of the actions, I think, have challenged, everything about our social systems. And, again, I I could what if it, a million different ways? No doubt about it, and still not come up with a definitive answer.

As I said, we're committed to doing the right thing. We've done it boots on the ground. We've had conversations. We've gone out above and beyond with our officers here to try and mitigate those impacts that we know are gonna that we're gonna have in our community, a, and quite frankly, that we, SPD, are gonna be left to deal with when this is all said and done. So, no, I cannot 100% guarantee that. But what I would tell you is is we're working every day to ensure that the values of this department and this community are what stands out front.

Through you. Thank you, chief Bedford.

Councilor Strezzo.

Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I appreciate the conversation. It's good to be thorough. So I I do wanna say that. It's important to to check check check everything. But I wanna make clear that we've already established as a community, and each of us as counselors that we're not interested in, compliance with ICE, and we're not interested in supporting ICE. And again, this is a value that each of us hold, and we have to be very careful alongside that value that we're not accidentally, disenfranchising members of our community through programs like this one, which has existed for many years. If you've been in the community enough, you know about it. You've heard about it.

You know parents and families that have used it. And we have to make sure that we're not that, yes, that we're being careful, but at the same time, that quick judgments you know, again, these programs have been here for a while, and to be cautious that that we're not harming our kids and our families in the process of doing this. If this information is already public record and out there, then, yeah. I guess that's all I have to say.

Thank you, councilor Strezzo. Chief Benford and director Wisdom, I guess I'm still curious to know more about to what degree is this information already available. I'm trying to apply a practical lens here, understanding that there are there are sometimes things that superficially seem alarming. But as you've sort of alluded with this, may not actually change what information is available. But, you know, I've also heard in some of the the questions we've discussed that we're not sure if this information being shared could lead to impacts on members of our community.

So I have, you know, questions now and and to whatever degree you're prepared to to answer about about this data, its availability, its sharing in more detail now, that would be helpful. I'm also wondering, is this something where, taking a pause on this, having a longer, a longer discussion, coming up with with a more informative background data about this data sorry, background memo about this data sharing. Is that something that could be helpful perhaps between now and and Thursday's council meeting?

Thank you so much, mister Shea, for the question. One is it's it's pretty cut and dry, and it's pretty clear. The information is 100% unequivocally a public record. You could walk in off the street to our front counter to the records window and ask for any police report that you want. Save for the ones that are sensitive for which we purposely embargo, like a sense of investigation or one that is protected by law, such as a sexual assault and or domestic violence, all of our public all of our police reports are 100% public record accessible, to the community and any member of the public for that matter, at any time.

Thank you, chief. I think the distinction that that I'm imagining in my head is between formal availability with a slow request and response process versus fast database searchability that can be can be accessed more readily, you know, say, by a federal agency casting a wide net.

Yep. So I I you know, again, we're we're all very committed to protecting everyone. The assumption is is that, you know, one possible assumption is is that, you know, that the every bit of information is going to be used against a member of our community. Again, we wanna have those safeguards, and that certainly is the approach. But I I I do think that we're at a granular level with this that doesn't substantially change, you know, with the delay in the conversation. I just wanna highlight that it's public access and public record. And yes. Right? Could it be full of laborious for someone to do that work? Absolutely.

But, again, this is about what can we do for our residents as an entity of the city of Somerville. And as much as we wanna protect, I don't think the intent is to make anyone's, you know, anyone's job on the city government harder, a, and as the councilor put it, certainly defer the disenfranchised person. So, again, I just, you know, I'll do and reiterate to answer your question. Again, you know, we could have very broad conversations and be granular in that space forever, but it is public record. We're all committed to the community and certainly not committed, to purposely exposing anyone, and I don't believe that this does that.

As the commit as the councilor has said, this has been a long standing grant that has been used to support, our community for many, many years, and I don't think that substantially changes.

Thank you, chief. And and I want to appreciate what you're saying about the intentions here. I think part of what's so difficult about navigating something like this for all of us is that we're in an environment where our intentions, your intentions, police staff's intentions, can be excellent, but there are other intentions out there that are not. And, and so there are some difficult questions, I think, that come up given good intentions on the part of those of us in Somerville. How do we accommodate, how do we account for the, the the lack of good intentions elsewhere?

Councilor Hart?

Thank you. So and I wanna appreciate you, chief Benford, and and you as well, chair Wheeler, for laying these issues out. It is, I feel like, really difficult. I wanted to ask about the the program and, you know, this almost $23,000. Like, if we didn't have this grant, you know, would could the program continue with an allocation in the city budget for $23,000?

Counselors, thank you so much for the question, to the chair. Right? Everything is a dollars and cents, issue in question. Right? Right now, we are not budgeted, for that.

And as we always say, right, you know, at the lay person's level, you know, anything is available, for price. If we're willing to pay for it as a community in the many different areas for which we have built robust city services and police services to benefit our community, I think that there are many areas that we receive federal funds that we'll have to have a difficult type conversation with this. So the short answer is yes. If the city is willing to fund it, that is an opportunity. I always hate to miss an opportunity to use external funds to help us offset the needs and the benefit of our community so that some some of those difficult funds from very limited city budgets, can be used for other priorities.

So short answer is yes if the city is willing to fund it, but would just, you know, caution that I I imagine across many departments, certainly not to speak for them, that this is a conversation that this body and others will have to contemplate, if that's sort of the posture that we have.

Thank you, chief. As a follow-up to councilor Hart's question, the the $5,720 match, is that something that comes from police department general funding?

Yes. Each year, we ask for, the city council match with our with our budget.

Thank you. So members of the committee, I'm curious if, you have the inclination to take a roll call vote, yes or no, to recommend this now, or if anyone is interested in moving to possibly discharge this without a recommendation, to to take it up with the broader council. Councilor Strazo?

I'm sorry.

Mister chair, again, this is a program that has existed for numerous years, and it helps kids at risk, and it helps kids that are frequently disenfranchised. And I think we have to really take a sense of self reflection here. I'm willing to vote for it tonight, and I will vote yes Because I know I know what kids in our city this impacts. It is the poorest kids. It is the most disenfranchised.

It is the most at risk. And I've seen the successes in it. And, there are definitely definitely, line items that we should check-in with and double check and and confirm, etcetera. But we also have to be careful in our roles of the negative impacts that each of us could have by finding reasons why we can't support things and support the poorest kids and a program that has helped kids and families for a long time. Each of us chose this role and claimed we do this did this to help our community.

So I'm fine to vote for it tonight.

Thank you, councilor. Councilor Link.

Thank you, mister Sher. I just wanna note that there's no bigger disenfranchise than being sent to a detention center where you have no rights, and you may be, you know, killed through, a a toothache that refuses to that the detention center people refuse to to see. So while I would agree that there is definitely a a positive impact of this program, I have to note there's a very, very potential large downside that will, not only disen potentially disenfranchise people, but some of these poor kids could lose a parent or both parents or be sent away. I, move to discharge us without a recommendation.

Mister chair on that.

I I'm sorry, councilor Strezza. There's there's been a motion. And just as a point of order, I wanna refer to the clerks here.

But mister chair on that.

Thank you. Please just just point of order. I I'd just like to to hand the floor to the to clerk Fisher Cassiole.

That is fine. But I it is against the rules. And as chair, it if if that sounds like some conflation, and it sounds like counselor Link was making some accusations. And I think that is inaccurate, and I think that's against our rules.

Thank you. I appreciate I appreciate the There be there should be

no acceptable.

I think we all agree there should be no accusations

Or confuses.

Across the table. Everyone is is addressing the chair, and I appreciate that clarity.

Correct. And I doubt it. There would there should be no disrespect or conflation in trying to make, assumptions that are that are complete. Okay.

Thank you. And and and I just wanna recognize we're dealing with with intense topics here, and we're all coming from a place of caring. I I want to respect I see, councilor Hart's hand, and I just want to refer to clerk Fisher Casiole because there was a motion to discharge without a recommendation.

Chair. But according to the rules, if a councilor is attempting to ins it is against rules to insult each other. So and that needs to be called out.

And Point of order, was not insulting anyone. Yeah.

Thank thank you. I I I can only speak for myself here. I didn't hear an insult. I did hear I did hear fear and Okay. And concern. And and I I want to encourage everyone on the committee to make sure that we are speaking, you know, about the pros and cons of of decisions and and propositions as we see it and make sure we are not addressing or referring to other counselors.

Correct. So that is not acceptable for account counselors to try to do that or complain or accuse. We're all here, and we're all on the same page that we would we want to care for our community.

Thank you, counselor. Clerk, Frischer Casiel, given that there's been a motion to discharge without a recommendation, is this a situation where we can continue the discussion, or do we need to address that motion now?

To be fully honest, this is a a unique situation that I'm not 100% sure on, so I don't wanna give a clear answer. Perhaps, if, I see IGA is, in this meeting, perhaps they could give a a set answer. I wanna make sure that we're not leading anyone astray here. Liaison Radissi, not to put you on the spot, but could you maybe speak to this? And if not, I can check with the clerk's office to get, an official answer.

Liaison Radassi.

Thank you, mister chair. IGA does not feel comfortable weighing in on procedural matters for the city count.

No worries. Alright. I will check with the clerk's office. So, let's hold for now, and I will get a definite answer.

Thank you. And can I just say my my best guess procedurally is that a motion has been put on the table, but we can be discussing that that motion and the question of whether that's how we wanna proceed or not, as part of our discussions?

Residually, mister chair, do you want to just call for a vote on that then? But miss counselor Hart

Well, I I yeah. I I didn't want to do that without hearing from counselor Hart, and I just wanted to make sure we were doing this. So, clerk, if if it's okay with you, I'm going to go ahead and invite councilor Hart to comment on on the matters before us.

Sure. Sure. Can I just, I think, I assume councilor Hart doesn't wanna talk about the the motion?

I do.

Oh, okay. In that case, I'll I'll take it back. I was I was gonna say I would withdraw the motion, but that's okay. Sorry.

I appreciate everyone's patience. I'm gonna go ahead and and call on councilor Hart to speak on this motion.

Okay. Thank you. Yes. On the motion, personally, I wouldn't mind discharging without a recommendation. I I really see this in all of these decisions as, you know, weighing the risks and the benefits. Obviously, this it sounds like a wonderful program that has a lot of benefits, and I just wanna be sure I understand any risks before taking them. So I wouldn't mind more time.

Thank you.

Thank you, counselor. I think we are now waiting to hear back from clerk Fisher Casiel.

Yes. And, chair Wheeler, so just to confirm, we want clarification on if we have to go ahead and proceed with that vote Right. And or if we can continue the conversation. Correct?

Yeah. I I I think we're okay. I I think we are okay to, to go ahead and and do a vote on whether to discharge without a recommendation.

Okay. I I will say I do believe that we we have to go through with Okay. Finishing discussing the motion.

Yeah.

And you know what else, on that, mister chair? Think it's councilor Strazo. Thank you. I think it number one, we all signed up to be city councilors to make sometimes difficult decisions. And every every line item can't be punted to the regular city council.

This is a committee to make decisions. So I just wanna remind colleagues of that. Second, we need to determine if there is a time crunch on accepting this grant or not. So, through you, mister chair, to, anyone in IGA or who needs to speak on this item, you have that information.

Mister chair,

the Liisa sorry, Councilor Leica. Liisa and Radasi, is is that something IGA has just been mentioned. Is that something you have any comment to make on?

You're the chair. I would defer to the police department.

Right. They they should still be here. Right?

Yeah. We are. Yeah.

Chief chief Benford and and director Wisdom, would you speak to the the time constraints and timeliness?

Yes. One moment. I'm glad director Wisdom will will speak to it. I just want to underscore, again that delay in taking the funds as we enter the warm weather and the peak season for young persons that are home, it is it is going to impact services and programming for young persons. So I would just pause, to and director Wisdom can give you some factual dates that are, that are attached to the grant. But I want, again, that to be underscored by this directly impacts real world real time program.

Yes. Through the chair, we have we do have till 11/30/2026 to spend it. But as chief mentioned, we do do a lot of our programming in the summer, and we're coming up on that.

Mhmm. Mister chair, through you, can, can we get some specifics on that? What are some specific

And and, counselor Estrasso, I hate to do this. If you wouldn't mind, raising your hand and but, counselor Estrasso, please continue.

Nope. You're right. Thank you. Thank you very much. You're right, mister chair. I will yeah. Okay. Through you too, Emily Wisdom and and chief, can you please give us some timelines of the schedule of programming, please, and when decisions have to be secured to assemble these programs, including the basketball game?

Thank you very much, counselor. And through the chair, I don't have the schedule ahead of me, but what I can tell you is is that, during the spring months, we start to do outreach, to our respective communities around programming that is going to happen in late spring as well as early summer. So consistent with many persons that have families that have young persons that look for programming, these conversations start in the spring in earnest. They will include the basketball game. They will include the assistance police academy for which many of our young persons participate in.

So a range of those different services will happen throughout late spring and through the summer. However, outreach and work in that space will start in earnest in the spring just, you know, as as the warm weather transitions.

Thank you, chief. Councilor Strezzo?

Thank you. When does when does the announcement with the rec department have to go out and location secured, I I assume?

Yeah. Those those are all things that will be being done by community engagement now, around space. As you know, much of our program, programming does occur over domestics, and that space, often has to be secured, months in advance, because they too have programming as well as other partners that come in. There are reservations of our school space where we hold some programming, for young persons, as well as, potentially some, public fields, that do require some type of either reservation and interaction, and res and engagement with, the parks and recs department.

Thank you, chief. To to take a turn speaking, and and to return to the question, wanna recognize the the real validity of the points that councilor Strazo you've made and chief Benford, you have made as well about the value of a program like this. Again, in my mind, it's one of the many frustrating and, and in some ways frightening, aspects of the, policy reality that we are in recently in this country that something as as wonderful and innocuous as as this program, is being tied to these kinds of of sharing that you know? And I take the point about, there not being a qualitative difference in the information that's shared, but perhaps a a quantitative, volume difference in the data that's shared. In my mind and and and to your valid point, counselor sorry.

To to to the valid point that the good good at large counselor I'll try to take my own advice and not not be directly addressing. The the the point that was raised, about our making decisions as finance committee members, How I at least see my role on the finance committee as a as a voting member is, that I'm trying to consider questions of financial efficacy, and that that that's the the real solid purview of this committee in in my view as I understand it. It's not the only understanding, of course. When we're talking about, unexpected aspects that that come along that are not questions of financial efficacy but questions of of financial value, social value with these other kinds of trade offs, that's where, to to my mind, I start to wonder about a matter moving beyond just the domain of the finance committee. I'm seeing a hand from, director Wisdom and and chief Benford.

Sure. The I I think that there's a motion, and I I think at that point, we're only supposed to be on the motion and, debating on the the motion.

Hey, everyone. Thank

you, Taylor. Appreciate that.

Clerk I yeah. I checked in, with our clerk's team, and Peter within the clerk's office has advised me that chair Wheeler essentially, it is up to you if you wanna go ahead and take that vote or if you want to continue conversation. It's really at your discretion.

Thank you, clerk. I appreciate that. Chief Benford and director Wisdom, I see a hand.

Very briefly, I just wanna acknowledge two things. This issue is so important that many members of our team that are not being compensated are watching online, and have shared that to the councilor Strelz's earlier point, mister chair, a question around engagement with our partners. We we have started those conversations even earlier than we have in the past and have met with our partners over with our parks and recs and other departments as it relates to scheduling and planning out our junior police academy for our youth. I would also look to acknowledge, some of us, the colleagues, that helped reorient me. This some of this discussion came up last year, around, CrimeLink and the and the information, CopLink and the information being shared with our federal partners.

As I testified to earlier, it is EOPs in the state that maintains the contract that, cities and towns are able to use, that resource, on behalf of. And they they testified last year that they do not share and do not, allow federal partners to have access to that data in that system. Again, that's testimony that that was provided by the state.

Thank you, chief Benford. Councilor Strazo?

Okay. So just so I have it clear that the data is not shared federally. So that kind of that is so it's not shared. So that that kind of alleviates some of the concerns of our colleagues, it sounds like.

Liaison Radasi? Thank

you, mister chair. Yes. Just to support what what chief Benford just said, I should have looked up an email thread that I knew counselors, counselor Scott had reached out to, EOPs last year about this to ask what kind of information sharing there is with federal agencies. So I did it while we were having this conversation, And I wanna confirm EOP's response was the Commonwealth Fusion Center does not provide Crime Tracer access to any federal partners. Thank you.

Thank you, Liz. And, Razasi, and I'm sorry. Just as a follow-up on that, crime tracer, that's the first time I've heard that term in this conversation.

Mister chair. Crime tracer is another name for CopLink.

Okay. So They

changed their name.

Thank you. So it's been confirmed in a previous year, in response to a similar set of questions that it is our belief that there is no data sharing through CopLink with this data with the federal government?

Correct. Counselor Scott reached out to EOPs, and I hope he doesn't mind that I'm sharing this, to ask about information sharing between crime tracers slash cop link and federal agencies allowed by funding grant agreements. And the response was that the Fusion Center does not provide crime tracer access to any federal partners. My apologies. I should have looked it up in my inbox earlier to pull this information.

Thank you. Councilor Link, thank you for your patience.

Yeah. Thank you, Sher. I'd I'd love to see that in writing. I I'm I'm I'm happy to hear it, but I would love to actually see it.

Yes. And I I just want to, I I want to appreciate your your finding that liaison, Radasi. And I I just want to to ask all of us to make sure that we are keeping in mind that we are in this unusual environment, and questions like this are going to come up. And, I think the more that we can be making context available, before our finance committee meetings, I think, the the more ready we all can be to decide on these matters. Councilor Strazo?

Thanks, mister chair. Why don't, why doesn't why doesn't, IGA, why don't you just, send an email right now, and we can review that and have that in writing per counselor link's request, and we can just take a quick recess and take a look at those actual forms in writing. It's all an email. And then come back to committee.

Thank you, councilor Strezzo. Councilor Link?

Thank you, chair. I'm I'm to the the good councilor's suggestion. I would also would, though, would request that it that we get it in. I would like that to be part of the public record. I want I I would like that when our our members of the public rightly look at this and have a lot of questions that they have the resource to understand what we're understanding.

Thank you, councilor Link. Councilor Strezo?

Thank you. Okay. So it's a call to question for us as a a the finance committee body to vote. Charge from committee. And so then, we have confirmation of our concerns, and I suggested that we email.

And, again, the emails that come into the council is public record. So we have that. And whether or not we take a vote on that, it's still public record. And so we can pause, have that information that IGA just shared with us. We can have it send in email.

We can look at it, take a recess, ten minutes. We're already a whole hour into this meeting. So and then we could take a look, come back. We can further deliberate, and maybe we can make decisions on the many agenda items that we have that we are assigned in this committee to make decisions on with a yes or a no, but a decision. So that's what I'm proposing, mister chair.

I know that we have a a call for a decision to discharge in committee first, but also we already we have information that we can look for ourselves for those counselors that are still kinda scratching their heads on on what direction to go or consider. Thank you.

Thank you, councilor Strezo. Councilor Link?

Yeah. So just, yeah. To councilor Laura Largest point, we do still have a motion on the table. So I think we need to take care of that, before we entertain any other motions. And then I I I I'm not suggesting that we necessarily delay the the vote. I'm I'm saying that I do want it to be part of the I want it be accessible to the public without a FOIA request.

Thank you, councilor Lank. Clerk, can you help me with, I would like us to take a recess. Is that something that we can do while the

I would like to withdraw my motion, chair.

Thank you, councilor Link. I think that does simplify things a bit. Liaison Radasi.

Thank you, mister chair. I just wanna flag. This is like an email exchange between counselor Scott and so I I I can cop I I kinda wanna check with counselor Scott first to make sure that he's okay with me sharing the information out to the committee. I'm not sure what kind of, like, privacy situation would be involved there, so I just wanna make sure before I share anything. But I did read what the email exchange said, the the relevant company.

Why why don't we take a ten minute recess per counselor Strazo's suggestion? You and I can be in touch about these procedural matters. We might be able to you might be able to communicate with counselor Scott. And why don't we reconvene in ten minutes? How does that sound to everyone? Aminable? Okay. Alright. Thanks.

Thank you.

I'm gonna please. Was that councilor Strazo?

I sure did. I said, okey dokey. Sorry, mister chair. I'm raising my hand. Hold on one second. Raising my hand.

Thank you. Calcio Estrasso.

Okey dokey. Okay. Okay.

Alright. Thank you, everybody. Let's reconvene at 07:13. I appreciate everyone's patience. Hi, everyone.

Calling this meeting back to order. Clerk, do we need to take a roll call to reestablish quorum, or can we just agree to resume? We may need to wait a moment for Hello. Patricia Castillo?

Yes. Yep. We'll need to, do roll call to reestablish quorum.

Great. Clerk, could you please take a roll call to reestablish quorum?

Yep. Alright. Counselor Link.

Here.

Councilor Strezzo.

Present.

Councilor Hart. Here. Councilor Scott. Chair Wheeler.

Here.

Alright. With that, we have four members present, so we do have quorum.

Okay. We were in the process of addressing, item four, mayor's request ID 26Dash0271. I spoke during the recess with legislative liaison Radasi. Liaison Radasi, has the email in question and is in the process of redacting it to make sure that the version that's shared is proper. So clerk, I move that we, lay this I believe we table this item or lay this item on the table and and pick it back up later in this meeting. Is that am I using the proper terminology for that?

Yes.

Excellent. Okay. With appreciation for everybody's perspectives and their patients, we will move on for now to item five, mayor's request ID 26Dash0169, requesting approval to accept and expend a $43,000 grant with no new match required from the Boston Office of Emergency Management to the police department for software. Chief Benford and director Wisdom, could you please tell us about this grant?

Mister chair, thank you very much. I I know that there's been substantial conversation already on this grant. I wanna just stop, and I'm gonna defer to several of our colleagues and members that are joining us here this evening. I wanna thank Emily as well as Saket Schneider, who I believe may be in the gallery, as well as Yasmeen and the entire IGA team in helping us in this space. I wanna just flag, at a at a very high level, mister chair.

As I mentioned in the past, you know, we have the dubious task of working through some very difficult challenges, but also providing police services, particularly to those that have been victimized or those that are in need of, of our services. And, I just want to, again, highlight that we are all equally committed to, to this community and policing in a way that honors our value set. With regards to the $43,000, we know that those funds were going to be used to support two key initiatives that are extremely helpful for us in our specific mandate. One being gray key and the other being blue voice. I know that councilor Link had submitted several questions that he had for which we were able to reach out to the vendor.

They worked, over the weekend, in addition to some others, to try and get responses to those questions. And I also know, that counselor Hart, submitted, two questions, additionally, that we, would be able to, to speak to this evening. I wanna pause there for a moment, and I'd like to just, recognize sergeant detective sergeant Schneider, who, should be in the gallery, who commands, several of our units and detectives, to speak a little more about the technology and provide some, some detailed granular information around how it's, how it's used, and how it's more more importantly, how it's used to benefit, this department and our community.

Detective sergeant Devin Schneider, I I see you and recognize you. Would you would you please address the committee?

To the chair, thank you, counselors. Good evening, everybody. My name is Devin Schneider. I'm a detective sergeant with the Sunwell Police Department. I supervise the special investigation unit, and one of my duties is to oversee the digital forensics team.

Just here to talk to you a little bit about GrayKey, how we've what this tool is, and how we've used it in the past two years since we've had it. GreatKey is a specialized digital forensics tool that is used by law enforcement. And what it does is it allows us to access and extract data from mobile devices during criminal investigations. The system allows us to attempt to lawfully unlock mobile devices and conduct forensics examination, recover digital evidence. Digital evidence in mobile devices is now one of the most important, sources of evidence in modern and criminal investigations, and it's a standard tool in contemporary policing to have the ability to be able to access and extract data from, mobile devices in these investigations.

So, a couple of examples of how we would use this tool, in cases where investigators believe that a mobile phone might contain evidence of a crime, detectives first have to establish what's called probable cause, apply for a search warrant through the court. This process typically involves, preparing a affidavit, which outlines the facts of the investigation, explain why we believe evidence of the offense is likely to be on the device that we're looking at. A judge or a clerk magistrate would review the affidavit. And if they determine their probable cause is established, they grant a warrant which authorizes, law enforcement to conduct a forensic examination of the phone, or unlocking of the phone. Once that warrant issued, device can be examined using special forensics tools such as GreatKey, where we'd unlock the device, extract digital evidence, which can include communications, photos, videos, location data, or anything that's specifically relevant to the case that we're investigating.

Couple important things to note is that phones are never unlocked without a legal without legal authority. Additionally, just having a phone and committing a crime doesn't mean that we're applying for a search warrant for a phone. There has to be what we we would call a nexus to the phone, meaning that that phone has some was somehow involved in that criminal aspect. Many investigations, especially those that involve victims of crimes such as sexual assault, domestic violence, or exploitation. Investigators can examine a mobile device with voluntary consent from the victim.

Victims also provide written consent allowing us to conduct a forensic examination, other phones so investigators can recover evidence such as messages, photos, social media, communications, or other digital evidence that's related to the crime. These consent searches allow investigators to quickly obtain that critical information and also supporting the victims who are actively cooperating with the investigation. GreatKey operates in two capacities, in the in the sense that we have it is the first one is what we call brute forcing a phone. That's where we hook it up to the GreatKey machine, and GreatKey will attempt to do a unlock of the phone if we don't have the password. We have that search warrant.

We're that's what we're looking for. System also provides the capability to conduct a full forensic extraction of cellular phones, once access to the devices is obtained. These extractions are considered among the most advanced in digital forensics industry. And in our experience, it provides a very rich dataset. As a result, investigators, we frequently use gray key as our primary method, in Somerville to access locked phones and, the primary platform that we're using to do these comprehensive forensic examinations on mobile phones.

We've had GreatKey now for about two years. And in that time, we've done, 58 digital device examinations. Of those 58, approximately 70%, of those examinations were done using Gratky. Most of these cases involve violent crimes, sexual assault, firearm offenses, or crimes against children. Just a breakdown of, highlight some of these crimes.

Arm six were from robbery, armed robbery. Six were from firearm offenses. Four were from, shootings. 16 of these cases involved a sexual assault or rape. Four of these cases involved, child abuse or a child sex offense, two of these cases were, elder abuse, three of these, three of these, devices involved a homicide, two of these devices involved either a suicide or overdose investigation.

And, the other 15 cases are are spread out between cases such as domestic violence, civil rights violations, school threats, drugs, or just a simple larceny cases. An important distinction between, the consent and the, you know, search warrant is, for our stats, it's it's split about 50%. Half of our examinations that we've done have been through a search warrant. Half of them are are done through consent. Usually, when we're doing consent, it's more, involving a victim in the case.

We'll provide consent because, typically, if we're doing an investigation, what we would wanna get is, we would wanna get a search warrant. It's just preferred more legally, so it doesn't look like we're trying to curse a suspect. It's always more legally sound to get that search warrant than even if they're pre presenting consent. So it's pretty rare in the in the instances where we would do a consent search of a of a phone if it involved a suspect that we're obtaining a device from. Some of the benefits of maintaining gray key in house is, you know, it lets us to access encrypted device lawfully.

We can recover that digital evidence quickly, a lot more quickly than if we were to try and farm it out to a lab. Labs typically have a twenty day wait associated with them. So if we're investigating a crime, especially a crime that has some kind of exigent circumstance, It could be a long wait. Having the ability in house strengthens our investigations and the and the the prosecutions because our own investigators are the ones who are unlocking and and and examining that data. And and the biggest thing is that they help serve our our victims because a lot of times when a victim comes in with a phone with a consent search, it lets us do it a little bit more timely than sending it out to a lab.

People rely on their phone. So usually, when we have these types of investigations, we're making a special appointment for them. We're trying to make arrangements where they can come in. We're giving them a time frame. We're gonna say, you know, we'll have your phone, we'll be able to download it depending on the amount of data on the phone. It could take a a couple of hours, make sure that we have a a way to communicate with them. Not just our victims too, but many times our suspects. We're trying to work with them, especially if we're trying to rule out suspects, who may be in it, you know, claiming innocence and want us to look at their phones in order to rule them out as a potential suspect. We're also trying to work with them, on timelines because people rely on their phones. They're very important.

And another big reason, especially with the amount of sexual assaults and child cases that we investigate, it it limits having Gracie in house in the Sonneville Police Department limits the amount of people who are reviewing the sensitive data, and it protects their privacy. When somebody examines your phone, it can be a very intrusive thing. So we wanna have the least amount of people looking at that device as possible, which is another good reason to keep that keep our capability of of Greyhaus in the Somerville Police Department. And, you know, the quicker that we work to get this data in these cases, especially with homicides, sexual assaults, things, a of times people are trying to conceal their data. They're trying to delete their data.

This just expedites the process. An example of of where we use gray key successfully in a case to ex expedite an investigation. We had an investigation last year that involved trafficking a minor. Detectives were able to seize the phone of one of the suspects and do a forensic examination. The examination revealed text messages and conversations between the suspect and a accomplice indicating that the two were engaged in a joint enterprise, to traffic the teenage victim for commercial sex.

Messages also contain discussions of using violence to control the victim. These include statements such as, you know, that they intended to beat the victim if she didn't comply. There's also a reference to dropping her in the quarry if they couldn't comply, which we interpreted to mean, you know, possibly committing a homicide on on this victim. The digital evidence that we recovered from that phone, allowed us to quickly investigate the accomplice in this crime. We're able to get a an arrest warrant, locate the second suspect, and and arrest him quickly before any more harm can be done.

Access to the device, the fact that we had gray key and all of this allowed us to rapidly recover these communications and, you know, like, expedited investigation that allowed us to intervene quickly involving a case that was exploitation of a minor. Another case that you may have actually seen in the news last year, we had an investigation where a, a victim was assaulted by, excuse me, an Uber driver, identify and arrest the suspects, during the initial stages of the investigation. We're also able to get that suspect's tablet and his cell phone. Using gray key, we're able to brute force force his password. Also, while using a consent search of the the survivor's phone in this case, we're able to cooperate a lot of the information that we received, including location data and other key details of the investigation.

The case is still moving forward, but that'll happen in house in the Somerville Police Department using gray key as a tool to unlock and examine those phones. And one other minor consideration as as we go forward, you know, and technology is becoming more and more prevalent, especially with AI. We're seeing a lot of these cases now, and it could be a, the new wave of crime where AI is being used to exploit elderly, to exploit money out of different people. Having GreatKey in these forensics tools really helps us to validate and identify media origination. Making sure, you know, so we can tell whether it's it's something that was created fictitiously with AI or or if it's a real person on the other end of those conversations.

Thank you, detective Sergeant. I see a hand from, director Wisdom and chief Benford.

Thank you very much, mister chair. Just in closing, on the back of the, detective sergeant's comments, I I I thank you very much. I really appreciate that. I just want to, again highlight, some of the benefits, and really, the extreme value, of this tool and resource from an investigator standpoint. Experience, in the investigation, particularly when we have, you know, violent crimes and individuals that have been impacted.

You know, the effects of crime are very, subjective for persons. So experience on our part, is always helpful, and this tool does, allow us to do that. I would also, mention again, as the detective sergeant mentioned earlier, search warrants, they are signed off by a jurist, at the court, so probable cause has been established. And and and with any search warrant, they determine the scope and intensity. So it's never efficient expedition.

We're able to go in and search, for and where, is already authorized and supported, through the search warrant. And then lastly, from a financial implication standpoint, again, this resource comes to us by way of our grant funds and minimizes the impact on limited city operating funds and allows us to maintain this critical service and resource without further exacerbating the city budget. Thank you.

Thank you, chief. Before I I move and call on counselors, you know, I this is a a two part item in that there are these these two different software items. There's Gracie, and then there's also Blue Voice. Is there anything that that anyone from the police department wants to say in terms of comment on Blue Voice?

Mister chair, thank you. And through you, yes, thank you very much, for that. I do wanna mention, just a couple of things. As I mentioned earlier, there were several, written questions, that was submitted, by Tumblr link, for which we provided a written response, to through IGA. It really is subject matter or proprietary responses, for which we are not, the subject matter experts in this space.

We are really laypersons and end users of the technology, so I just wanna highlight that. I also wanna mention that when we talk about exiting circumstances as it relates as it relates to Greg Key, that was a question that came from counsel Lahart. The detective sergeant spoke to that around, you know, with the exception of consent, with the exception of a search warrant, the only time that would go into that phone, is would, would be, when there is an exigent circumstance, that presents itself. Specifically, as it relates to BlueVoice, I want to, again, reiterate, for which I know director Wisdom, testified to, in the past, is that this is a tool, and a resource that is on demand, tool and resource for officers in the field. It does not openly search the Internet.

It only uses the tool and the technology to search data that we input into it. And we intend to use that by inputting policies and procedures, city ordinances, and state law. We do not intend to use the technology for report writing nor do would we share any data through that platform. We don't collect any data. That is a tool and a resource that is very specific and germane for the officer in the field as it relates to Blue Voice.

Thank you, chief Benford. I see a hand from councilor Link.

Yes. Thank you, chair. Through you so first of all, through your through the chair, thank you to Benford for getting me all of these these answers. The and I think you just you maybe answered one of my my kind of follow on questions. It sounds so it sounds like but just to confirm, so there's there's, there's no plan to use, like, the the there's on the website, on the the landing page, there's a a feature for, like, writing reports. And the the plan is not to use that, so we're not entering in any any, personal identifying information of any kind, from our our from anyone who might be interacting with the police.

That is correct. We will not be using that in any way. Thank you.

And then the the my last question is, while, I understand that we're gonna, it's gonna be the what what they're calling a closed, I think what what they're calling a closed loop, so it's not going out to the Internet. It's only using the the source documents that we're providing it. The the the question the the answer that I received did, mention that there was two different there was two variations of that. And there was one that was, option that when essentially being used as a, like, a high powered search engine, essentially, right, through the municipal documents and the state documents. And then it would only then cite the documents themselves and not, and and not try to summarize them, which is where the my concerns about hallucinations come in.

So are we planning on using it to to summarize, or are we planning on using it just to cite the actual, you laws that may be applicable from the search?

Thank you very much for the question, and to the chair. The expectation is that this tool, will provide, an on demand, resource for the officer in the field and and direct him, her, him, her or they, to the specific areas in the statute that are articulated and responding to the questions that the officer has. You know, what I would say about AI, I think this is a healthy discussion. I think you raised some really valid points around having an open and candid conversation. You know, what we're finding in the discipline is that we're not gonna run we're we're not gonna outrun AI.

I think several years ago, you know, there was there was intimidation about it, and a lack of understanding in terms of how it may impact us. And what we're quickly finding is is the industry has pivoted and all of our tools and resources are being built out this way. It does not undermine that we still have to send officers to training. It does not undermine that we still expect that officers are gonna have comprehensive understanding of the law while also recognizing that we can't be everything, and remember everything at all times. So we're hoping that this is a real time tool that will help orient the officer, to that, to that specific law, ordinance, or rule and still rely on the officer to make the appropriate judgment call based on real world facts and circumstances.

Sure. Thank you, chief Benford. That was yeah. That I think that answers all of my concerns. As long yeah. As long as we're not using it to actually analyze the law, then then I I'm much more comfortable with what this is. Thank you.

Thank you, councilor Lank. Councilor Strezzo.

Thank you, mister chair. I'm I'm fine going behind councilor Hart if, if if she's fine with that too.

Sure. Councilor Heard?

Sure. I just wanted to say thank you through you, chair, thank you to chief Binford and detective sergeant Schneider for very thoroughly answering the questions that I post as well. So thank you.

Thank you, counselor. Counselor Strezzo.

Thank you, mister chair. I I appreciate the conversation on this and my colleagues' questions on this as well. And I read up research all the things. And I also want to, through you, mister chair, to, chief Ben Burden, detective sergeant Schneider. I appreciate the details of this and how how it can be these programs can be helpful in cases with sexual assault, with child rape or child exploitation, with human trafficking, and how difficult these cases are are hard to well, we know with with cases of of rape and sexual assault that very few cases are are convictable, and and that's so the the conversation and how how everything moves so fast or just how technology and etcetera can be implemented is is a dialogue and an interesting conversation, so I appreciate this.

And as this is the second time we're discussing this in committee, and there's there's a lot of agenda items and to discuss, I am moving for a vote move to approve, offer a vote, whatever you wish, mister chair.

Thank you, councilor Strezzo. The the read that I'm getting from the committee is that we are comfortable with approving this item. If that's not the case, okay. Thank you. Then, with appreciation, as my my colleagues, said for, for the extra explanations and answers to questions about both of these pieces of software.

This is this is new territory for every municipality, And, you know, there's a limit to how how sure we can be about how any AI related technology works. So I I appreciate, and and I am counting on the police department as you navigate the the BlueVoice tool in particular, to, to be keeping our city's values in mind and, and being on the lookout for mismatches between what this AI company says they're doing with data and and any signs that that that's not quite what they're doing. Councilor Link?

Thank you, chair. I'd I'd love to, I I can do this after the meeting here, but I'd love to share out the, the answers I got for for these my questions because I think that they're, it makes it pretty clear that, that this is a this particular AI is is fairly limited. I do think that as a city, we need to have a, know, some some guardrails around AI in general, and some use policies, but, this particular case.

I I would welcome that, you know, with a balance of of level of depth and time.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm not it's it's true. I'm not suggesting that we, we we pause for anything for this. I'm just saying I I would love to make it, accessible to everyone, so I'll I'll find ways to share it.

Thanks. Thank you so much, counselor. Liaison Radasi.

Thank you, mister chair. I would just, through you to counselor Link, double check with the law department around the parameters for that.

Thank you, liaison. Okay. On this item, seeing no further discussion, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. Okay. Item eight, mayor's request ID 25Dash0849 requesting approval to accept and expend a $127,000 grant with no new match required from the Boston Office of Emergency Management to the police department for a special response team equipment and training. Chief Benford and director Wisdom, could you please tell us about this grant?

Thank you very much, mister chair. Really appreciate the opportunity. Again, I wanna, acknowledge all of our colleagues for the work that had been previously done, in furtherance of this discussion. This money, again, comes to us by way of the UASI program. It supports, training and equipment of our special response team.

This team is an extremely important asset tool and resource, that we have available in our community, again, for our use during our most troubling, and most dangerous instances that come up in the city. We use this team, to help us in, proactively, around preparation, for the menorah lighting, and the Christmas tree lighting, different rallies that have occurred around the city. And so we use that resource to help us have situational awareness as well as maintain a security posture should we have bad actor actors that look to disrupt the process for folks and persons to be had and to be present, during debate. These funds and resources, help to offset, backfilling over time for training costs, so that individual persons that consummate our team maintains their proficiency and confidence in the skill set. It also helps the city and the department offset the investment in extremely expensive equipment that's used like shields, like helmets, like technology, communication, and interoperability, with our radio systems, all of which are extremely costly.

As well as when we have individual persons that cycle in and out of the unit, we often have to equip them, from head to toe, with the proper equipment. And regrettably, because we all have different body types, 90% 99%, of that equipment is not interchangeable. So these tools, are all procured with this resource. They're extremely helpful. We, we rely on them, every day.

We rely on them for how we go about, ensuring, safety and security, for our city, and as I've said, being able to respond to those threats, when they do happen. The performance period of this grant, is a three year period. These funds are being awarded, with the last year, f y twenty four. So we've already, a year has already gone by. I highlight that because these funds are not funded annually, in the sense that this $127,000 is available for one calendar year. It's only over the three year performance period. So when you break that down, you know, the the safe assumption is to think of it to, you know, as thirds over the performance period of three years, to grant.

Thank you, chief Benford. Are there any members of the committee, or, you know, detective sergeant, any other guests who have comment on this? I just wanted to share that, you know, a a bit of information that I was able to to find reading the the cover letter on this item. I did wanna note that it makes reference to the obligation for the city of Summerville to adhere to requirements in the, the state of Massachusetts project plan agreement with Uwasi for fiscal year 2024. I was able to make a public records request to the city of Boston, to sorry, to the Boston office of emergency management and, and get a copy of that just to be able to look at the section that's being referenced.

By by my read, all of the items there were in line with my expectations, for for what that's worth to others. One question that I had for you, chief Benford. It it it sounds like the equipment that you're talking about is a mix of, some which is fairly routine and some which is more in the kind of armored direction of, you know, shields, for example. And, you know, I I know there's been concern raised, in many different cities, about the tendency for this more hardened equipment to lend itself to military like mindsets and even the most well intentioned officers. One question I have for you is is that a concern that that you and and your department are aware of, and and what steps do you take to counteract that?

Thank you very much, mister chair, for the question. I greatly appreciate that opportunity. One thing I will say about the offices here in SPD, is, you know, we're not faking our value set here. It's very clear in the city, and every officer, takes, the job with SPD understanding that we are a a department that's accountable, to the community, and we police according to those to those thresholds. With that said, there are a couple of things, that we won't compromise on, and that's officer safety.

Right? Because there's a direct link between officer safety and community safety, and we can and will balance both. And when we talk about, you know, militarized responses, we take a measured response to everything. When we think about our special operations, we do it very deliberate. So as an example, when we plan for our major events, we don't put offices out in tactical gear on the front frontline.

Those offices are available as an asset offline, out of sight, if in the worst case scenario, we need them. So that's one example in terms of how we mitigate them. When we start to talk about office safety, when we start to talk with special operations in terms of certain certain search warrants or, attempting to take dangerous violent felons, into, into custody, we always balance try to balance, the impacts that it has on the community, the time that we're executing. In fact, in the state of Massachusetts, we have, specific times that are articulated by the court, for when warrants cannot be executed. And if we do step outside or need to go outside those parameters of a night nighttime warrant, which are typically the exclusions, we have to get very specific permission from the court, and those are tenants that are consistent with the authorization of the search warrant.

When we do those things, we always do it on balance. We use those teams to safely enter a home or to safely enter a location so as to minimize the impact or the possibility of danger again to the community and or the officers. Once we are done, with that initial phase of the operation, those officers are often removed from the, from the scene, and other assets, tools, and partners within the operation, take over. So there's often not a long standing, presence of those officers on scene. I do wanna be fair, in the discussion when we talk about community safety and officer safety, when we're entering a home and we know that we're trying to take a suspect into custody that has a violent firearms history, that has a history of consistent, activity with firearms.

We do take, into account the highest level of security posture that we can, in going into that, but we always start with how do we maximize and how do we go about this operation while prioritizing both community safety and officer safety. We do that with a high level of deconfliction. There are multiple stages that occur as part of that process. And it also, we go, as we go through the approval process, it includes, senior executive level managers within department to ensure that we have multiple eyes, on it, most importantly, to ensure that the the the dynamics of the value set of our community as well as the spirit of our rules are being taken into account from decision makers and policymakers within the department.

Thank you, chief. One quick note I wanted to also add is that among the other equipment that is listed in in your letter about this, chief Penford, are the, pole cameras, the two pole cameras. And I wanted to point out to everyone that there is a surveillance technology impact report about those cameras that's available, on the ENCODE website of the city of Summerville. As well as referring to a previous item, there is a surveillance technology impact report available for the gray key software. I believe the most recent year for that one is, 2023 in terms of an independent report.

Thank you. Counselors on the committee, are there any other comments on this item? Okay. Seeing no further discussion, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. That brings us to the end of this series of police department related grants. Liaison Radasi, could I just check-in with you about if you feel like the information regarding the the email chain is in a position to share now? Because we could also go ahead with the the next item instead of returning to this previous item.

Thank you, mister chair. Yes. I sent the email. As I noted in the email, I'd appreciate some extra time to have law review my redaction because I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure I did it correctly. But the con contents of the email, should be in your inboxes.

Thanks. I I have to say I don't seem to be seeing it. Sure. Okay. Sorry. It's it's in this this other chain, handouts for the finance committee meeting. Thank you. I do see it. Okay. Why don't we return to that item, clerk, to item four, ID 26Dash0271?

And maybe we could begin by just giving everyone three minutes to to read this email and review it, if that's okay. Thank you all. Please give us just a few k. If everyone is ready to resume discussion on this item, members of the council, are there further thoughts?

Call for a vote, please, mister chair.

If there's no other, comments here, I'm inclined to call for a vote on recommendation for approval for this item unless anyone wants to make a case otherwise. Okay. Clerk, could you please, do a roll call vote on recommendation, for approval for this item?

Yes. So this is, recommending approval on item number twenty six dash zero two seven one. Councilor Link?

No.

Councilor Strazo?

Yes.

Councilor Hart? Yes. Councilor Scott? Chair Wheeler?

Yes.

Alright. With three votes in favor, this does pass.

Thank you, clerk. Okay. That concludes the items related to public safety. I appreciate the, all of the questions and answers and the, the helpful testimony of of our detective sergeant as well. Thank you all, and, have a good night.

Thank you very much. Appreciate you all. Appreciate your understanding and the opportunity.

Thank you. Have a good night.

Thanks. Bye bye. You too.

And we will move on to item seven. Officers communication ID 26Dash0201. The director of economic development conveying the potential use of an urban center housing tax increment financing tool, a CTIF, to incentivize housing production. And we have, the very patient director of economic development, Rachel Ned Kearney. Director Ned Kearney, could you please speak to this communication?

Yes. Good evening, everyone. I want to introduce as well Katie Weiss, who is our one of our economic development planners and is gonna be presenting with me on this topic. Clerk, just to double check, can she share her screen?

I think we are seeing it now. So it's working. And welcome, Katie Weiss.

Okay. On my end, I'm still seeing the my view is still showing the agenda. There should be

tabs at the top that you can toggle. Yeah.

Oh. That is new.

I'm learning something new, Clerk. Thank you.

Now I can see that. Okay. Very cool. So good evening, everyone. We are here tonight to Katie, ahead for the next one.

Talk about the urban center housing tax increment financing program. It is a very, very long name, and it has been christened to the OCTIF, not by us, but by the folks over at Housing and Livable Communities. So the OCTIF program is a state program, and it is a program that is designed to assist communities with incentivizing housing. It is a tax increment financing program, which we'll talk a little bit about as a general concept, but it has a very specific purpose, and that is to look at adding housing in otherwise commercial areas. We are really looking at all tools to finance new housing production here in the city of Somerville, and we have been for a while.

What is interesting about Octave is that it is a tool that is fully within the city's control, after you get approval from the state to to have a zone. You the city gets to decide which projects to fund using the the tax increment financing program, once they've established an area. So it's a it gives us a lot of flexibility, and it can make a real difference in some of these projects that are stuck. K. If you wanna go to the next one.

Wanted to just share a graphic we've used before just that describes what tax increment financing means, especially for anybody who might be listening at home and for our counselors who are who are newer. This is the same graphic that we used in our presentations around the TransMedics tax increment financing agreement. TransMedics is a is a traditional tax increment financing agreement. That is it is a it's a tax agreement that is linked to commercial development. Typically, tax increment financing requires that there be a in the state of Massachusetts, increment financing requires that there be capital investment and job creation.

That's a traditional TIF. OCTIF is was built as a tool a dozen or so years ago, to allow tax refund financing for housing. The state has a lot of specific requirements around the program, and communities actually have to have an approval from what's now housing and livable communities before they can utilize it. Katie is our in house expert on all things Octave, and so she's here with me to Diane to answer any of those detailed questions. Do you wanna just bring you off to speed that we've used this tool before?

This would be what we're looking at is is establishing a broader potential use of this op as this of this option. The the first time we used Octave, though, was was for the Winter Hill 299 Broadway project. So, Katie, actually, if don't mind going back to that for one second. So I think you all are familiar with the 299 Broadway project, the Old Star Market site. And what we did with the Octave zone is that we aligned our Octave zone with the urban renewal zone.

So the urban renewal area for Winter Hill includes what is the Star Market, the Old Star Market, and Walgreens, which have been demolished for the 299 Broadway project, but it also includes a couple of other parcels. So anything within that pink boundary is actually where we can utilize Octave as a tool. So we've used it for the 299 Broadway project, but the there's also a couple other smaller sites within that that could potentially utilize Octave as well. So the Center of a Land Trust is working with how to tap for humanity on Sewell Street, the little parcel at the to the right hand side, there are the two little parts that stick up. If the Octave could be a tool that we utilize to support that project down the line if it if it needs it.

Octave could also be utilized at the corner. There's two parcels at the corner, which are not inactive redevelopment conversations right now. But, again, Octave could be a tool for anything within this pink boundary. And that's really the sort of the the reason I wanted to pause on the map is that that it's

I'm I just wanna interrupt them with apologies, Rachel. I'm The audio is slowing down for me, and I saw

Getting approval of a zone, an area that you wanna use it. And then there's actually a second step, which is deciding which projects. And I'm trying to understand what might be.

Yes. I'm I'm sorry, director Nankarney. I think there is an Internet hiccup happening.

I'm happy through you, mister chair. I'm happy to take over well, doctor Ned Carney.

Thank you, Planer Weiss. Absolutely. That would be wonderful.

Can you hear me better?

Still a little

Perfect.

Spotty. And can you hear me better now? Yes.

The image is still frozen for what it's worth. But Katie Weiss offered to take over the presentation if you can hear us.

Thank you, mister chair. I will continue through you. Let's see. Let me pull up my notes really quickly. So as director Navkarny gave an overview of, we've used this tool before in Somerville at the Winter Hill site, and it was a very it was instrumental in allowing that the financing for that project to move forward.

In the case of the February site, it also allowed for a higher level of affordability than otherwise would have been both able or required. So we've been looking into this tool as a possible a possibility for other areas in the city. As was alluded to earlier, there are a few steps that go ahead before any agreement is even negotiated. So, initially, we would need to define a zone and develop a plan that identifies our goals for this this tool in the city, and then any future project would need to come and negotiate specific terms on a per project basis. After it goes through a local approval process and goes to the council for a vote of approval, it would then go back to HLC Housing and Livable Communities for for final approval.

Just a reminder, which I think we we noted a bit earlier, but the qualifications for the zone itself, it must be primarily commercial, and the projects within that zone must be primarily to deliver housing. So this isn't a tool to build new commercial properties. It is primarily intended to deliver new housing. The zone also must meet some specific conditions. So one of the following, such as a high commercial vacancy rate, higher unemployment rates, or others more specifically defined in the program requirements.

We've been looking initially at the areas in Assembly some areas within Assembly Square and portions of East Somerville, primarily along the interstate highway where there are some housing projects that have been stalled that could move forward if they were to if if they had if they had the ability to move forward. So a lot of the the area of the zone that we've been looking at so far is underutilized. There, it's characterized by almost 50 surface parking or vacant lots. And as I mentioned previously, there are there are projects that are underway that could move forward with with the help of a tool but are currently stalled. So just to to to wrap up oh, I'm sorry.

I didn't even bring up any project that goes through that that negotiates an OCTIF has to meet a specific affordability threshold, whether that's one of the ones listed or an existing inclusionary zoning ordinance. So, again, just today's presentation was to familiarize the council with this tool as an opportunity for the future, and we've done some research into potential areas that could that we would bring back in the future to the council for review, but today was was to to bring it to to bring some information about a a potential tool. Thank you.

Thank you so much, planner Weiss. Just before we move on to questions, I wanted to do a little check about, whether we have director Nadkarni fully able to hear and participate in the questions.

Yes. After it was all fine for the entire last set of presentations, and then I got kicked out, but back.

Okay. Glad to have you back. Councilor Stresso.

Thank you, mister chair. Okay. First is I I think I may have printed the fur through you, mister chair, to our economic development masters masters of economic development. I think I printed out the first version. What's the difference in slides? That is not my question, but just so I can stay consistent on on what I'm doing. What what was omitted or included, I think.

I think we added the map. I don't think the other slides really changed.

Got it. Okay. Thank you. So with that, if we can start I have about three questions. First, when this was when when a when you hired a consultant last year and presented this to the council, which, by the way, was a different council than this council, there are new members, I said that I was not comfortable getting deep on this topic without hearing from the Office of Housing Stability and the Housing Division.

I still want to not get into any serious conversation on any amendments to AMIs without their feedback, which is crucial. So I I just wanna put that out there. Second, when we talk about I'll start with page six, the project qualifications. If that's the same pages that you have in the second one. We're talking it it project

We can jump to it's a different number, but we'll jump to that slide.

Yeah. Cool. Thank you. It says, second bullet point, unit mix must satisfy a minimum affordability threshold. So I see that 15% affordable to households at or below 80% AMI, and then 25% affordable to households at or below 110 AMI. Now, if anyone that isn't too deep on or, you know, isn't well versed on EMI, and it gets really confusing real fast. That's market rate. Correct? A 110%? That's pretty much that's, like, a 110.

Like, the that's close to market rate. So a 110%, it's about 83 or the or a 118. So I know in the past there has been consistent problems filling apartments and units with 100% AMI or a 110% AMI. Because with the qualifications being it's essentially market rate, why would tenants want to be in a unit that is essentially market rate and go through all the complexities of the recertification process every single year for something they can just not have to do with market rate. So can you expand on that, please?

Sure. So these actually are not our standards. These are the states. When we did the February project, we they were following the again, it's it's the you have to meet a minimum of one of these three criteria. So the minimum criteria that we used at the time with 299 Broadway is a minimum needed to meet our inclusionary zoning standard for the whole the project as a whole.

Now the state has built this tool to incentivize across, again, the entire state. It's been utilized in Worcester, Lowell, and a few other locations. In some municipalities, that 110% is the target level that they're trying to reach. They're looking at it more from a workforce housing perspective. Whereas in our in some of what we have tended to focus more on the affordable housing market exactly for the reasons that, councilor Streisso, you mentioned that the 110 is not meeting is not I'm sorry.

I'm no need to repeat. You what you were saying before. So we would expect that we would be looking at the inclusionary. But, again, this is just it's the minimum criteria that the state is setting. It is, again, something that we would be looking at on a project by project basis, not as the zone itself.

Thank you. And and, mister Chair, through you on that, if they are actually built with the state's qualifications of a 110 or even a 100% AMI, which is essentially market rate, and they're only designated as market rate I'm sorry. Only designated as as housing that you have to qualify at a 100 or a 110%. Then what happens when these units are not able to be filled? Now back in the day, for anybody who wasn't, like, fighting for affordable housing in 2012 and 2014 and '15 here, typically, yeah, that that was, like, the model.

Right? Like, the the earlier starts of the affordable housing conversation was 810 and a 100% AMI was included in that, enveloped in that for to to be designated as work house workforce development, housing, and that was where we started. And then fast forward five, six years, we have a bunch of vacant units that we can't fill because they're lodged in this designation that isn't getting utilized because everyone can just go on market and not have to, and we're still stalled on that. So my concerns are that. And if that is that being modeled as a affordable housing unit when it's technically, like, yeah, sure, income restricted, but not technically affordable housing because it's still kinda market rate.

I know that's a lot at the same time. Please forgive me. Happy to back up if necessary, director, mister chairman.

Through the chair, I think what's what's unique about OCTEF. OCTEF is it's an incentive program. Right? We are we are incentivizing the production of housing through our tax dollars. Right? That's that's the essential point of what this looks like. I think the question that I I think we can we should put some thought to as we develop our our next conversation with you all is what's the recourse if they aren't meeting their affordability. Right? If they are not filling the units that they designated, what what recourse do we have, and what do we want? Do we want that to look differently because we have dollars in the game?

Right? We're we're committed to the product in a different way. $2.99, it's it's substantially higher level of affordability than a typical project. Right? And so it's we're there's a little bit less worry about meeting these minimums, but I think that's a really good question, counselor. You know, what recourse are we building into our agreement? When we go forward as at the next stage with an OCTIF map that we would be bringing to you all, again, the city council actually has to approve all of this before it gets goes to the state for approval, is that we would be approving a few different things. We'd be approving a zone. What's the area in which we would apply this? We would be approving a plan, which is a narrative to describe what we're trying to achieve.

And then the third thing is a form of agreement, which is the baseline dot legal agreement that we'd be looking at when we actually then negotiate with the project. In that form of agreement is where I would say we would wanna look at language around that recourse question.

Mister chair, through you, if I may, to director. But who would make that decision? Would that be a decision that was completely built and made by economic development, and so the council has no role in that?

Through the chair? No. This is we changed the form of agreement under the Winter Hill urban renewal plan with council council feedback, and that's fully what we would expect here as well. I also would anticipate that this would be something that would be being tracked with the housing division. Again, the housing division already does annual recertifications to review, you know, that that they're in compliance with the inclusionary requirements.

Thanks, ma'am. I'm sorry, counselor Streisler. I'm gonna I'm gonna cycle back around if that's okay.

Nope. Got you. Got you.

Yeah. There's there's much more to talk about. Councilor Link?

Thank you, Jira. Two questions. I think I can get them all both pretty quickly. So the the first one actually just kind of to to pull the same thread that, counselor the was was pulling on, which is just some clarification. So it's we must so the project must satisfy a minimum of one of the following. Who decides which of those minimums it is? It it yeah.

Katie, help me remember this. I think it's we set that in our plan and form of agreement, or is it negotiated by project?

It's negotiated by project.

Okay. Because, I mean, it's just I guess I would call attention to the fact that these are the first two minimums are less than what we would normally be requiring. And then, so my my second question is oh my goodness. I just lost it. Oh, is how are we balancing, or or is there an eye towards balancing this, you know, incentive to build or incentive to actually, you know, if this tool if, I I worry that if developers see all these tools used in this project, and if I just hold out in land bank for just a little while longer, maybe they'll cycle back to me and give me a little bit of a of a bonus.

So how are we balancing that that kind of incentive versus maybe actually de incentivizing people to build.

I'm just writing that one down. I think that's something we can also look at in in this form of agreement as well and in the plan. The plan is really to lay out our intentions. Right? What do we what kinds of projects do we want to incentivize? What are our goals here? And it gives us then the staff who are gonna be doing the negotiating and then also city council who reviews the actual agreement, the background. Right? Because this could be a few years between when we approve this plan and zone and when we actually negotiated that agreement. So I think that we could be looking at that as well around, you know, is there a expiration date?

Right? Does our form of agreement include a you know, this is here if you build within the next twenty four months. You know, you have to pull a building form within x months, but from the date that you were approved for the TIF in in order to make sure that it's, what? When we did with the

Sorry. Just interrupt that. Because that that's not quite what I'm asking.

Oh, sure.

I'm just wondering how we're, I worry that this is telegraphing to developers that they could wait, and maybe we would offer them a bone. Right? And so that they would maybe stall their projects. Maybe they see that it's like the math isn't great, and if they wait maybe and and, ask and, just where they would have developed otherwise, they might not, because they they see that there's there's this potential thing to grab. So how are we and how are we telegraphing to to developers that, like, you know, this is not for you?

Yeah. I think what we've been looking at is, you know, we've been trying to really target our looking at our analysis of where this tool could be applicable to to a couple things. One is where is their commercial vacancy right now? That's criteria one that we have to look. We need to look at what is our our definition of vacancy that we're we're targeting.

Commercial vacancy is the one that we've been looking at with assembly. With the other thing that we've been looking at is where do we have products that have stalled for for a long time already. Right? Products that are already permitted, ready to go, and yet because of the downturn in the market, we just are not seeing any movement on them. And we know that it's it's just the numbers are not penciling right now. So this is really a sort of a a a tool that fits in that gap, but it does not expire. So that is a question that we can look at of, you know, how do we we might wanna set ourselves our own sort of expiration timeline on it kinda thing.

Doogee, thank you very much for your answers.

Thank you. Director Nick Kearney, I I have a few follow-up questions of my own, on these questions. So one thing I didn't quite understand is that the zone must be commercial, but the project must be residential. I feel like I'm missing a a step.

Yeah. So what the state the reason this exists, right, is the as a program. Again, this was developed more than a dozen years ago, and it's a statewide program. What the target locations are are are sort of the traditionally, like, a a downtown district that has no housing. It doesn't it has no housing jobs housing balance. Right? We talk a lot about that in Summer Vision. We're looking for jobs housing balance. And so if you think about, you know, a neighborhood that has, and I would say Winter Hill is a pretty classic example of what they were trying to accomplish. Right?

You have a low slung single story retail district. Adding housing above retail, you know, is what we're is a is a is a goal. Right? That's an area that they're trying to fill in, get those feet on the street, have that built in population to serve the the retailers. That is the sort of the infill housing that they're trying to accomplish through Octave.

Assembly actually is that same classic story at a different scale. We've been trying to figure out how to launch more housing in Assembly. We have some, but a lot more potential for housing. The Assembly Square neighborhood plan calls for a lot more housing than we see today, and we do have a vacancy challenge in Assembly Square as well. And so that's that's what they're trying to achieve is thinking about those locations where you've got concentration of retail. Where where could there be infill above, assembly, similar story, higher density.

Thanks. I I still feel a little confused because it seems to me as though there are also entirely residential areas where the same the same exact arguments hold. But but I'm I'm also understanding that this is a, in some ways, a state program, and that that's another piece that I was a little confused about. Is there state money that's involved with this program? The so would would we in the absence of state legislation on this, would we be able to to waive different taxes in order to encourage development, or is it something where we wouldn't be able to do it on this kind of case by case basis but for this enabling legislation on the state level?

I believe, chair, your your second answer is the is the one that is my understanding of it. So tax increment financing in general had been, tightly held by the state. The state used to require that every tax increment financing agreement every single project, commercial or not, had to be approved individually by by state by a state agency. So I think how when it was sorry. The acronyms have changed as the structure has changed, but it used to be that the it was one housing level communities and economic development split apart.

OCTIF went with the housing level community side, and regular TIFF went with the economic development It used to be even for something like TransMedics, we would have had to have a state approve a state approval after a local approval. They've taken away the state approval requirement for the commercial projects, but the state enabling legislation still defines what we can do in terms of a tax increment financing agreement with a commercial entity. OCTIV has the same basic setup on the housing side.

Thanks. And And so

the state still has all the they didn't the state did not get rid of the overstate.

So in that context, that that these minimums that some of these are a bit paltry, let's say, That's okay because if we want Summerville to have higher standards, we can. It's just that the state is saying, hey. We're not gonna we're not gonna allow the sort of fast track approach to this tax increment financing unless it meets at least these kind of minimal requirements. Okay. Thanks. That that helps me with the context. Councilor Strazo.

Thank you, mister chair. I'm happy to be, in the back if counselors who haven't spoke wish to, and then I can take round two.

I think at the moment, you're the only one.

Right on.

Take it away. Thanks

to be great to be back in the queue. Yeah. Thank you very much. And I I through you, mister chair, to councilor Link, yeah, thank you for bringing that up about just who is this for. Yeah.

This is very much for major developers. So this this is this is what it's looking like. And with that, mister Chirio, through you to director Nakani, I am I'm really stuck on the numbers, and I I get that it's this is a state tool, and that's that's it I appreciate that elaboration, but we know that that, like, trying to jump start in Worcester or jump start in a community that's trying to jump start is way different than where we are here today in 2026 in Somerville. We yeah. It's it's definitely not apples to apples.

And my concern is is the numbers of the shifting of now 50 like, on page my page six on project qualifications, where meeting those three bullet points of 15% affordable to households at or below 80%. So, like, a lowered definitely lower than 20% of of more of the lower income qualifications while we have an increase of that of the their market rate or or middle grade or definitely higher. And I don't know that, here in Somerville, that that's a different kind of qualification. And so, essentially, are we incentivizing developers, major developers to just build them as luxury units that technically can be reserved as affordable housing on the on the on the higher end of the of the percentage AMI. So are we saying that we can do that?

And then well, but actually, it's I don't know. I I have my this is a this is that page, I'm not sure how that isn't going to negatively impact for residents in our city. So, like, I I don't know if that's a statement or a question. I I I don't know, but those are my immediate impressions and my my sticking point in that as well. So, director, feel free to thank you.

Alright. Thank you, mister Sheridan. The the thing about this, like, this is this these are the standards for who can who we can begin negotiating with. We don't have to negotiate with anybody. Right? The Octave is an is an opera it's an option. It's not a we don't have to say this. This is all discretionary. Right? And it's and every agreement with to approve a tax increment financing agreement for any single project would have to come back to the council.

The these standards are really saying at a statewide level, if you wanna even be in the game of a of using this tool, you're gonna have to have a project that meets these minimum standards. In Somerville, our minimum standard is you have to get approval through our zoning ordinance, and our zoning ordinance has a higher level of affordability required. So our standard zoning approval, we already meet that qualification across the board. So this is really thinking about then how could we can we use do we wanna use this tool to incentivize the production of housing faster than the rest of the market? Do we wanna use this tool to incentivize a greater degree of affordability?

Do we wanna incentivize something a little bit more unique about a project, which is what February was? Right? Like, there that's those are the questions that we can use Octave to try and answer. Part of the reason that we're here thinking about this today is that the market is not producing housing right now. There's not our pipeline is is pretty much zero when it comes to large scale projects.

So the question on the table around Octave for us has been, is this something that we keep we've been saying this this is something we should consider really diving deep into because we do wanna see more housing. We do wanna see projects launched that have been stalled already for two to seven years. And can we beat the market and continue to build on our pipeline goals faster by bringing our tax dollars to bear?

Thank you. Director Link?

I've been promoted?

Sorry. Councilor Link. It's getting late.

What department am I a director? No. Sorry. Thank you, chair. So just so I can just what I've heard, I just wanna make sure I don't I'm not looking at this with rosary glasses. So this is there's the potential that we could have that we could be requiring we we could incentivize projects that are deeply affordable with this as opposed to 10 as opposed to a 110% or 80%. Yes. And that yeah. And it's and it's up to us, not up to the there's no state requirement. Okay. Thank you.

Councilor Strezzo.

Thank you. To elaborate, mister chair, through you to I don't know whomever, councilor Link or or director Nard Nardkani. Affordable to whom? The the developer because 80% is not that affordable. Like, that's not that's not let let's be very clear here. So you're saying you're agreeing, director, mister chair, through you to you're agreeing to affordable project, affordable for the developer. Correct?

We can set our standard for what we think affordability means as long as it's more affordable than one of those metrics.

For the developer. Right. No.

No. For the our housing stock, it has to be at least 15% of units targeting 80% AMI or at least 25% at that 110% level or another combination if we have an existing inclusionary housing ordinance, which we

Okay. But to clear pardon me. Through you, director, Mister to director. 15% okay. 20% is our standard of affordable housing.

So the first bullet point is less than that. That is 15% of affordable housing at or below AMI. The sweet spot and the extreme need is even way below 80%. The extreme need is at, like, 50% AMI and lower. So 80% AMI, which is much higher, is not hitting deep affordability and the needs of our constituents that are struggling to stay in our community.

Let's be clear here. And the second bullet point is a completely different conversation. 25% affordable to households at or below 110%. Again, that is close to market rate, and the people that would qualify for that can would in our in my experience and talking about this for many, many years on the council is that there's not a lot of incentive to rent units at one ten, 100%. I'll stop there because we could go back and forth, but I need to clarify and fact check on this because or, you know, or not not fact check.

I'm not in any way suggesting you're not. But I'm saying that we need to make sure that we're explaining this as that we're we're talking about this with that perspective, that it's not just, like, more affordability. The reality is we're shifting numbers, and this is a state. I know that you did not put this forward. This is a state program. I understand that. But that that's a different qualification. We have extreme needs for affordable housing with units that are 50% and below. There's a devastating need for that. And and thank you. Sorry, councilor Link. I know you have your hands up.

Thanks. And and, sorry, director Carney. Just just to to speak to to this conversation because I I think this is a very important thing. Is your understanding that these are low thresholds, and it could well be that Haverhill or Canton or some other town besides Summerville might say, hey. We're gonna do Octave with, you know, this building that's 25%, quote, unquote, affordable to households at or below a 110% AMI.

But Somerville, if our city staff, you know, our mayor, our city council don't wanna do OCTIF at at that lower level, and we wanna say, first of all, you've gotta meet the actual existing inclusionary zoning ordinance 20%. And in fact, for OCTIF, we might even insist on higher standards with you know, it may be that we say we want a certain amount, at 50% of AMI, a certain amount of 80% AMI. We we could set much more high standards, so to speak. Lower AMI numbers, but higher standards. And these are just the question of if we called up the state house and we said, hey.

Are you okay with us using Octave in this case? They'd say, well, are are you clear of these pretty reasonable low thresholds? And we'd say, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they'd say, sure. Go ahead. That that's the only kind of role for these for these bullet points. Is that right?

Correct. Think there are think about something the long case that we are thinking about is that we have projects that were approved at 12 and a half percent because they were approved in an earlier version of the zoning ordinance. They cannot utilize OCTIF unless they come up to one of these standards. So that would be the only case in which we would tap one of those standards in Somerville. Otherwise, our zone inclusionary zoning ordinance is your bottom line threshold.

Thank you. Councilor Lang.

Thank you, chair. Just to I think kind of maybe I'll reiterate just but, just to, I think, be clear. So in theory, we could the city could say, this project is we're gonna give you this this kind of offer, and we've decided that it's gotta be, you know, 50%. And this is a very hypothetical, but we we've decided that 50% of the units have to be 50% affordable. And that would be that would be the offer that we can decide that that offer is is gonna be there, and the city council would be involved in that in deciding what that offer would be.

Yes. So the if I can explain a little bit about the process. So there's a this is a multistep process, and this is where Active becomes complicated and why we wanna bring it to you in this early format first is that you there's a you have to write the zone in the plan, which is this is the area in which we are willing we we are applying this tool. It meets these criteria around commercial vacancy or meets a definition of blighted. So that is the analysis that Katie has been deep in trying to area areas that that could work and meet that threshold.

Then there's the plan writing itself. What are our intentions here? All those steps. The plan in the zone has to be approved by the city along with the form of agreement, which is, like, the the broad brush strokes of what we're trying to what we're negotiating within. And after that whole package gets approved, then you actually begin we would actually then begin negotiations with an individual project.

That's not always the case. Octave has typically been done where you already have a very specific project, and they've happened together. But when you read the the way the the program was originally conceived, it was conceived of as you get this area defined as saying this is the area where we want to use our tax dollars to incentivize housing production. And after that, then we'll talk about negotiating with individual projects. That gives us a lot of flexibility then to negotiate with those individual projects. Right? We have the flexibility to say, this is where the market is in this moment in time. Right now, our focus is on 50% AMI units. And so unless you're producing 50% AMI units, we don't wanna talk. Right?

It it gives you that flexibility to then have those individual negotiations. And once you actually have that individual negotiated agreement, it comes back to the city council for approval of the individual approval. So the city council has a lot of stages in which there is a check and balance on what's going on here, and nothing goes through without without those, thoughts.

Thank you, director. Any other thoughts or comments from anyone, in including director Ned Carney and and, economic developmental economic development planner, Reese? Well, thank you so much. Thank you for staying all the way to the end of the meeting and for all of this background. It's nice to know that we have this tool, and I'm curious to see what opportunities come up for us to deploy it.

Motion to adjourn.

Yes. But first

Oh, we got a vote.

Thank you. Yes. That does bring us to the end of tonight's agenda. Do I hear a motion to recommend approval of the items on the table and then to adjourn?

Motion.

Councilor Link moves to recommend approval of the items on the table and then to adjourn. Could the clerk please read the agenda item numbers of the items up for recommendation to approve and call the roll on recommending approval of these items and adjournment?

Yes. And, chair Wheeler, to clarify, what would we like to do with this item number seven, that was sent for discussion?

Do we Oh, thank you.

Work complete? Or

Thank you. I I believe it would make sense to mark it work complete.

Perfect.

Thank you. That item is laid on the table, for approval. And going

back Yeah. A mister chair.

Am I

mister chair.

Sorry, councilors councilor Strezzo. What's

Sorry. Is it too is it you just I was about to say it and see if this is still okay on that last agenda item. I wanted to ask the director what because none of this is approved, and there are many conversations. I I just quickly wanted to ask if, clerk thinks it's still suitable for me to ask what the what they are proposing in economic development, their next steps for this, item would be or where their next approach is. Are they going to another committee, etcetera? Or

Thank you. Clerk, is it possible to put the motion to take a roll call and adjourn on hold and to take backup item number seven?

Can we go back in time quickly? Build the time machine? No?

No? Okay. We're we're we're giving the clerk a workout tonight.

That would be at your discretion then. So if

Then not I And, use that discretion let's let's pick back up item number seven, for this question.

That question, done. Right? Boom. Done. Right?

Through the chair. Yes. So our, we are in the midst of we wanted to come to you all and have this conversation. We're speaking with various stakeholders in and around assembly, particularly looking at, you know, does this feel like the right fit? We're engaging a lot with the housing and housing stability and housing advocates in to get into these very questions around what feels like the right kind of signals to include in the plan because we that's what we wanna double check before we bring something more concrete to you all to consider.

Thank you, mister chair, for indulging me and and director

Oh, totally.

For that. And on that, I did not still hear I still did not hear actual communications from the director of office of housing stability and the director of housing within our city. So but so I'm done with that, ready to move on, and keep that, and just, as approved or I'm sorry. If

I may they are part of the team working on this. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, director. Mister chair, through you.

Thank you so much. Thank you, councilor. Thank you, director Ned Carney. Thank you, planner Weiss. Seeing no further discussion on this item, it is marked work completed. Do I hear a motion to recommend approval of the items on the table and then to adjourn?

So moved.

Councilor Link moves to recommend approval of the items on the table and then to adjourn. Could the clerk please read the agenda item numbers of the items up for recommendation to approve and call the roll on recommending approval of these items and adjournment.

Alright. On recommending approval of the following items and adjournment. Item one, ID number 26Dash0295. Actually, excuse me. We sorry. Number two, ID number 26Dash0268. Item three, ID number 26Dash0270. Item five, ID number 26Dash060169. Item number six, ID number 25Dash0849. Counselor Link?

Yes.

Councilor Strazo? Yes. Councilor Hart? Yes. Councilor Scott? Chair Wheeler?

Yes.

Alright. With that, that is all those in the affirmative, and it is 08:42PM.

Alright. Thank you, clerk. Thank you, liaison Radasi. Thank you, everyone who joined, and thank you, members of the committee. Have a great night.

Night, everyone.