P&z meeting - Regular Meeting

[clears throat] Oh, really? building. [laughter]

I got to talk to the mayor. She g me this place up. [laughter] on here. I'm so glad I'm not on the board of adjustments. Are we good? You are good. Anytime you would like to start, the scheduled meeting for the planning zoning for the town of Smart is called to order. We will dispense with the pledge of allegiance. Um at this time and we will role is taken. Um we have minutes from last meeting. Um, I would ask that is there a motion to approve?

I'll send a motion to approve minutes from September 24th. Question on the motion. All those in favor say I. I. I. Opposed. So carried. I would just like to make sure that for the record that we understand that we are broadcasting under Facebook, YouTube, Facebook live. I believe

they they they can hear us, but we don't they going to get to talk to us. So, just let you all know that. Um I don't believe there's any additions or deletions to the public agenda. And so, based on recommendation, what I would like to do is to switch um number six and number seven. Yes. at this time. So, we will begin with a parking waiver of two off- streetet parking spaces for proposed single family dwelling at 121 Northeast Street. Mr. Rothwell.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, many of you got to hear the presentation for the variance. The um this is a vacant lot 30 foot wide um very small like some many streets in the downtown area uh have very um narrowed lots. Um this uh particular street along um or segment of the street along Northeast Street um this uh vacant lot has been vacant um since 1971 or excuse me 1978. Um, a similar house was was demolished by the town and um, it was subsequently purchased at tax sale in 1998 and has remained vacant ever since 1978. The applicant, as shown here, is proposing to construct a 20 foot wide uh, two-story house similar to the one that was previously demolished. Um due to the width, the very narrow width of all of these lots, um none of these um lots along um Northeast Street um with the exception of the corner lot has a uh driveway uh or can accommodate any off streetet parking. Uh so all parking is on street. The only thing that I would point out uh based upon the um compared to say Delaware Street um park there is parking on one side of the street. Uh some people park on both sides of the street. So there is um it's approximately 34t wide of street but um unlike on say Delaware street um where a parking waiver had um you had granted previously there is only h on this particular street there's only homes on one side um there's um uh other uses um

on the other side but they are not residential uses that generate a significant amount of parking. So, um, with that, um, you know, just as a reminder, every new single family home has to have two off- streetet parking spaces, but in this particular instance, um, to be able to rebuild a home that, you know, of a similar size that had been, uh, demolished, um, they need to be able to, um, to get a parking waiver. And as a reminder, um, there are a series of warrants to be able to grant a parking waiver. Um, and I would point there are four different ones. They're on page five of my staff report. I would point you to number four where on street parking and loading areas are provided by um um as part of we the uh staff has actually had to go out and do a parking inventory um for our downtown streets um at four different times in the past two weeks. And we've got to see all of these streets um at different times of the day. This particular street uh rarely has um um cars parked, you know, that are anywhere close to being full. Unlike there are certain streets that are typically always full of parking, Delaware Street, you know, is oftentimes one of those streets. Um this particular street very rarely has u more than a couple of cars parked in front of it. So um they are predominantly single family homes. So most of them, most of these homes have have one car sometimes, too. So with that, I'd be happy to answer any questions. The applicant is here to be able to answer any questions as well.

Any commissioner have a question on the staff report? They're not re just a clarification. They're not asking for specific two spots. No. So no. So they're just going

we our our co our code requires an applicant to have provide off streetet two off- streetet parking spaces. Um in this particular instance um to build a house on the lot. Um we do not in in the downtown residential district, we do not permit uh parking in front of the house. Like you can't have a driveway, you know, and have two cars uh and then have the house behind it because the purpose of the downtown residential district is to have houses close to the street like all the rest of the you know the rest of the houses are 2 to 3 feet from the property line um in terms of from the street. So u to have a house that would be set back say 30 feet or something like that that would be out of character for the community and that's why that standard is in place. Does that make sense,

Scott? The other to answer the other part of the question, I think what he was asking, Jeremy, was the only permitted on street parking is through handicapped. You can't get you can't you can't get you can't get two two ones in front of his house. Okay? That's not what he's asking. So all we're going to do is say yes, you can build and don't need the parking places and where your people park. We don't know. That's right. You know, so because your money takes your chance. Okay. Any other Yeah. So is there parking allowed across the street or you said that that's no parking on the other side?

It is actually so so certain um streets in town Yeah. they restrict parking to one side of the street. This particular street does not. Um but because it's 34 ft in width, um generally an on street parking space is generally 6 to 7 ft in width. Mhm. Typically seven. So it's not quite wide enough to have um parking on both sides, but there are certain streets, South Street for instance, where you sometimes have parking on both sides, but it requires what's called queuing where some a car has to wait, you know, as another car goes through. uh because

or people know how to stay on their side of the street. I go down South Street all the time. There's plenty of room for two cars, but people don't know how to drive. Right. So, in this particular instance, in this particular instance, it's not it's not placarded for parking on one side of the street. However, if you were to do a cross-section, it's really only have parking for one side of the street, but it's not. You can technically have parking on both sides. So, Mr. Mr. Chairman, yes.

I I don't want to belver the point, but we do these waivers all the time and we kind of know what the lots look like that require a waiver. And so again, I say that at some point far in the future, I'm sure, we might want to consider modifying our regulations to recognize that when there's no land left on the lot after you build the house that there's no parking requirement. That's my opinion. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. Um, anything else? Yes, sir. Any other questions? Uh, the applicant want to tell us anything that

uh hasn't been said? Pardon? Anything that hadn't been said? No, sir. Okay, that's that's fine. I don't want to shut you off there. Is there anyone Well, anything you'd like to add? Okay. Um, [laughter] and is there anyone here else would speak in favor?

I I would just say um that most of these residents that are on that street, they park on uh East North Street in in front of my building on that, you know, where Colonial Motors and that uh what's the name of that church building that's there? you know where I'm talking. That's where everybody parks that lives on that street. Give you a little clarification. I see it all the time.

Thank Thank you very much, sir. Um I don't see anyone else in the audience that may wish to speak against it. So that being said, is there any other questions by commissioners? Is there a motion to approve? I will put a motion to approve the parking waiver for 121 Northeast Street, Smyrna, Delaware. Second. Question on the motion. All those in favor say I. I.

Opposed. Motion carries. And I guess we can state a reason just to put it there since you had it written down in your staff report. So, is everybody in agreement with number four? We're in agreement with number four. Okay. I would like to say now that we're we're past that because I don't like getting myself in trouble. When the little league field was there and games were played, there were never a parking problem. Let it go that way. Yes. All right. Um and it was a nice little league field because right afterwards we go to Dairy Queen and get an ice cream cone. [laughter] Thank you. You're free. You may go back to Milford.

Um, it's on the Kent side if that if that if that makes a big difference. I I was going to I was going to go there. I'm literally right there that that river. Uh, was that Silver Lake? I'm I'm on the I'm right there. But Okay. All right. All right. You You're You're safe up here then. All right. Good enough. Thank you.

Um, thank you all very much uh for that. And um the next item is a public hearing to consider the following application. and that is uh to reszone 115 East North Street and 121 East North Street from local commercial to corridor commercial. Mr. Rothell, [clears throat] thank you, Mr. Chair. Um this is uh again this is a application for reszoning um ATM properties LLC to reszone two parcels approximately 42 acres in combined area from LC local commercial to CCM corridor commercial for the purpose of uh redevelopment uh for mixeduse development. So, this um application was duly advertised in the Delver State News on October the 12th. It was uh posted and advertised at town hall on October the 8th. It was posted on the subject property on October the 8th and it was mailed to the property owner and abudding property owners on October the 8th. Um so these particular two parcels um the applicant um who you may or may not know um was the one who redeveloped the former Dairy Suite building um where it's a two-story mixed juice building where Marmaries that is right Marmies Marmalies crearyy is located on the first floor and Mr. Johnson's computer repair business um is on the second floor. Um he recently purchased these two lots. Um these uh they they have two pre-existing buildings that were built in the 1960s and 19 um uh ' 80s respectively. Um it was former floor most recently former uh well actually it was a barber shop most recently. It was a bar it was a florist for a long yeah barber shop now. It was a florist for I remember for a very long time

60s. It started out as a pizzeria and then um uh it was a doctor's office and then a florist and now and believe it or not I learned the florist that owned it was actually a relative to the person that owned the dairy Ireland. Just a little history there for you. Uh and now and now the barber shop owner is Fabian that owns the school across the street or there 13.

Okay. Um the other the other building is a former single family dwelling. It's um most recently used as a daycare. Um what the applicant is um proposing. Um so these two particular parcels um this is from our the future land use map on our 2020 comprehensive plan. Um, so as you may remember, all the parcels that directly front onto US13 as part of the master plan, the route 13 master plan, all the properties directly fronting 13 were reszoned and identified for reszoning to corridor commercial. um this near the intersections of um Glenwood Avenue and US13 and the intersection at North Street and US13. The block going to uh North Street and to Main Street respectively. Uh you have pre-existing buildings and commercial uses, low density singlestory buildings. And um we had you may remember in 2019 and 2020 we had a lot of discussion about should we require corridor commercial on all of the parcels going all the way to Main Street or North Street essentially to complete an entire block. the planning commission at the time. Um many and many three of you were there. Um the [clears throat] planning commission opted um to identify this area as as transitional corridor commercial that um would not require the property to be reszoned to corridor commercial, but it would allow a future property owner to reszone if they chose to redevelop. So, it wanted to respect the buildings and the uses that were already there and give them the ability to retain their existing lower density zoning, but it allowed an option if somebody wanted to redevelop that they could upzone the property to corridor

commercial. And Mr. Johnson is proposing to demolish these two older buildings uh to put a similar building and I'll allow him to describe a similar building than to what he already constructed um where Marmar's crearyy is a two-story mixed juice building uh with first floor commercial and a second floor apartment or two. Um so with that I would um and this is outlined in our comprehensive plan both in the text and in the map. Um, so with that, I would be happy to um to answer any questions that that you may have regarding this application. Anybody?

Okay. Mr. Johnson, anything you'd like to add, sir?

I plan on uh building a building using the same materials that I have at the first building to I'm calling it phase two. And you know, I'm going to use the same chocolate, dark brown siding, uh same basic uh brick. You know, I I went I I did special brick, so it's different colors. Kind of fits into uh the sworn opera house is where I got my inspiration for the brick. I want to do the same kind of thing on the second building. First floor would be commercial. uh the barber shop will be moving in to that space and then hopefully there'll be enough room for a second space, but we'll we'll see how that goes. Uh and then of course on the second floor have a a couple two or three apartments uh for multi-use that make it a multi-use building. I think it would be really nice. Um it'll clean up that whole side. I wish I could had bought the church there around that corner and and that's this would definitely do a lot better, but it is what it is. And uh if would sell me that grassy lot behind there [laughter] just imagine what we can go up over there.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yeah, Mr. Johnson. Yes. In this total configuration, one thing I I I go there a lot to that parcel. I like ice cream. Um Yes, sir. It do you think there's going to be any improvement in the overall parking allocations there? I I know a lot of people park when the ice cream shop gets busy in the sort of alleyway there. And how's that whole configuration in your mind going to look? Well, um, we did a proof of concept with the engineer and the parking has to be behind the building

that we put up. So, it'll kind be closer to that grassy lot and which kind of puts it down the alley. So, will they be able to use it? It depends on the number of apartments that we put up there. And the barber shop doesn't use a ton of parking, especially in the evenings. So, I would imagine there'll be uh additional parking spots there as long as the people want to walk because what I find is they don't like walking very far to get their ice cream.

Well, that's fine. Yeah. But yeah, and in my business, we're closed uh at 5:00 and my crew leaves and that leaves you see all that parking clear out there along the alley. Um yeah, my only suggestion would be talk to your engineers when they do that because again walking, you know, some sidewalks, some arrangement of sidewalks there would probably be helpful. Well, you know, uh, I presented to the town a few years back to actually help, you know, I'd like to acquire that section of the alley and just close that off and create a big old parking lot. Yeah, there you go. But, uh, that that didn't go through. So,

well, you might want to try again if if this if this proposal goes through. I I think that came up to an ownership who owned it. Nobody really knows. Lawyers can figure that out. [laughter] That's what they do based on title searchers. Quit claims deeds. Any other questions? I have a question. So, we'll be able to review the site plan when it comes up. Yes. So, the site is just the reason this is um have an opportunity again. This is where remember our first day in training. Mhm.

I hate to say it, but half of what you've heard has nothing to do with what is before us. [laughter] Okay. I don't mean that in a in a negative factor. Um, so what we are approving is that this goes from what's it zone now to corridor commercial. Correct. What happens after that? Yes, they have to come back to us. And I think you know what Mr. McGrath was saying was parking is always an issues things are but basically it should not sway our decision this evening on this how they do isn't that what they told us in that class exactly what they told us so I was just double checking all right I just want to make sure all I was doing of what's important

I understand that is there a motion to approve I'll make a motion to approve recommend recommend I make a motion to recommend the resoning to corridor commercial second a motion Any questions? All those in favor say I. I. So carried. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Appreciate what you bring to the town. I would like to say that just like on Main Street, it is interesting to see we've got a dog tail on this one, too. Very strange. [laughter] Okay.

All right. Um I' I'd like to thank everybody this evening. I um as we move forward, does any commissioner have anything they wish to say? Yes. uh two things that came up from our training that we're in. So this was the uh University of Delaware's Institute for Public Administration local government training. Um so it was great. They had a whole course on um planning commissions, right? And um the one that question that came up from that was that we should see if we can get emails from the town address potentially. So it's not our personal email that we're using when we're corresponding about

I'll have to see if set them up. I don't if you want to ask about it, um, let me know. If not, I'll make a new Gmail account or something. So, I think I think and the the reason that that was brought up, I will say that portfolio portfolio request that so they're not getting our personal email. So, that that's one. What else you got? Uh, the other question um I believe you reached out to Jeremy previously was was there a copy of the annual report on the comp plan? Was that what we asked about the comp plan? Yeah, we we submit it every every year. We don't post it online, but if you like it, you copy. If you could send me a copy. Sure. Great. Yeah, they can do that. Pretty simple.

Yeah, he he he was on top of that. You got it. Yeah. Yeah. July I was in my office. [laughter] I was in my office when Biff when Biff called me. July 7th is when they did it, too. Okay. Perfect. So, anything? Yeah. For good of the order, is am I correct? Is this Jeremy Rothwell's last meeting here? No. No, I haven't we haven't changed anything yet.

Okay. All right. Um, just couple things real quick. I I know that we're on schedule uh 9 minutes from my bedtime. Um, I am pleased to see Infill and Jeremy and I I am glad to see that. I think you know one of the things as we move forward as we do more of this there could be more parking waiverss. So you know however we find that it would be beneficial to handle that in a easier manner would be something that we could look at. I would say that I did not bring it up. I missed it on the property on Delaware Street. And I really believe that when we're putting houses on small lots that we have to address the drainage.

Mhm. Because what they're doing is they run the downspouts right next door. Mhm. And this house will do the exact same thing. So I just I bring that up. I am a firm believer that Delaware Street and places on Main Street and places on South Street did it right 120 years ago. They broke it down into a pipe and ran the pipe out into the street to get the water away from the house. So, I I would ask that that staff look at as we go with that. I'll ask Gabby to send an email maybe to Cody uh just to um if we can just when the permit comes in that that that that's a simple a relatively simple thing. Okay. Especially that are that narrow.

Gabby, next time I will bypass him and just speak to you directly, [laughter] okay? I'll save part of this going on. Um the the other thing is I I want to say Jeremy, thanks for the training. Thank you for bringing it up. Thank I I was able to attend the first two.

And I'll tell you what I actually learned. Um I learned that we do a good job. meaning you do a good job. Your staff reports are good. Our minutes are good. The information that we're putting out there and how we handle ourselves is good. And the person also that is is well is Barrett who makes sure that we do good and not act dumb [laughter] and and is able to tell me when I'm doing dumb without making me feel dumb. So he tell I will say this and I've said it before and I'll say it to staff every time. Tell us what we need to know, not not what you think I want to hear and keep me out of trouble. All right? Because we've got a good track record on what we do here. And we really do. So thank you. The last thing I have is it was brought up about the parking. Parking is always an issue. I don't care where it is. It could be an issue out on Lake Drive for all I know. But one of the things in looking at the picture across from the property that we just reszoned, there is a car dealership who uses that street as their lot. I think that is something that council ought to address, right? Oh, no. I wasn't opening up for you to come across that. Now, go ahead. I just want I just want to mention that uh I [clears throat] may be buying that car at a dealership property.

Then you'll get the cars off the street. Yeah, they'll be gone. But I'm just saying that is something that, you know, you have to look at when when you have these type of, you know, issues because I will agree with what Mike said.

People don't like walking. Now, they'll go to the mall, park as close as they possibly get, and then walk for 3 hours through the place. But if they had to walk 3 minutes further, they wouldn't do it. Um anyway, I understand parking problems. I understand that, you know, etc. But I just that I don't know what you can do about that. The um I can No, I'm not code enforcement. the the issue that is in play there um and you occasionally see this is um the to for cars to be parked um in a driveway or in a on a public street they have to be tagged [clears throat]

as long as cars are tagged then that is legal. If the cars are not tagged then we have the ability to issue a code enforcement violation. Okay. It's fine. I mean it just it just to me when you have a business that's on the corner and and you know that and parking is an issue, right? And [clears throat] then we have another owner who ropes off handicap parking

who for whatever reason is is illogical to me, right? it it's just parking is a problem wherever you go, right? So, you know, just good luck mean that

and I will say to the um so we did get approval to the mayor finally appointed a steering committee for our downtown development district plan. And as part of that, um, Ivy and I have already gone out three on three dates and three different weeks at three different times of the day, morning, afternoon, and in the evening. And we did a complete parking inventory and parking counts on for on street and for public and private parking lots for all of our central commercial area. not like Mount Vernon Street, you know, or the end of South Street, but for your central commercial district, which is essentially like a six block area, four to six block. Um, we have done that. So, stay tuned. Uh, we will have at least one public meeting and, um, we'll be able to, you know, you'll be able to see that and see the results of that parking survey that was,

Mr. Chairman. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing about in parking, that's great. That is something that is definitely needed to do. the town and this commission speaking to the mayor and council, there are ways to manage parking on the streets. You know, prior life, I was involved in this with several communities in Newcastle County and economic development, particularly with the downtown redevelopment people that are trying to promote businesses or out where you are. There there's things you can do with time limits, uh markings on the street, you know, there's a whole host of things you can do to manage that problem. They may be permitted to park there if they've got a tag, but how about putting 30 minute limit there? Town can do that. Put a 30 minute limit on that corner and that guy's cars would have to disappear.

Yeah. Right. So, it's not just a matter of whether they're legal to park them. the town can manage that street parking by how you sign the street, how you mark the street, time limits in various places. And although business owners aren't keen on it, studies have shown and they eventually learn that it does help to put time limits in the business district so they get turnover in the cars. Um, it it helps the business, right? You don't you don't want people parking there for 6 hours when you're trying to run a retail business, right? So, uh, those things can all be looked at hopefully as you follow up on your survey that you did.

I encourage you when we schedule a public meeting, I will invite all of you. Most of you live in the downtown. Actually, all of you live in the downtown. So, I'm doing up on my street. [laughter] Um the the the gentleman just to to bring to conclusion the gentleman who came up to you questioning the time Mhm. of the meeting before prior to this one. Um apparently he wanted to be here for the board of adjustment and not us as you can see. Uh I just brought up the town website and the meetings that are listed. The board of adjustment is not on there. Oh no. their agenda is on there or their that but under Wednesday, November the 5th, the only thing on there is ours.

So that's what he was referring to. All right. So I'm not and it was on there previously. You know, I don't I I you know earlier, I mean, not today. So don't you frown when I'm bringing up something like that. Without objection, this meeting is adjourned. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Are you seeing the same thing I'm seeing? You're not saying it? No. Come here. I'll show you what I If you don't mind. I mean, I don't Don't trip on your wire. Then you'll be holding that again. So, Bob, you're going to be going This will go to town. That's what he had up next Monday. You have to click on the date. That's what I'm saying.

Go on vacation tomorrow. But if he would have cuz he was here [laughter] the time 9:00 tomorrow. Yeah. All right. Look forward to it. That's so you're referring to your your IT people until the next day. Oh yeah. Because I'm going in for my next but all that does is upset somebody. You go to the other series and then they're rescheduling the last one. So the the one I just attended was uh land use law with Max Walton. How' that go? Very interesting.