Mayor and Council - Regular Meeting

It's all highlights for sure. Oh, yeah.

Smyrna Town Council meeting convened September 8th, 2026. Chief, will you please lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Please join us for a moment of silence. Please be seated.

Okay. Good evening, everyone. All right. Do I have Councilman Drew here? Mayor got present Councilman miles present Councilman Olson. Yeah. Councilman Pope here. Councilman read robbery. Vice mayor doctor after. Thank you thank you.

This time if there are any additions or deletions to the agenda please make them.

Motion that we accept the agenda the public agenda a second.

Those in favor aye those opposed. Motion is carried. Consent agenda. Motion to accept the consent agenda from August 3rd, please. I make a motion to accept the consent agenda from August 3rd, 2026. All those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion is carried. This time we'll have public presentation or presentation and public comment. If you're interested in making comments, please go to the podium, state your name, and you have three minutes, please.

Hi, thanks for hearing me. My name is Chris Fulvia. I live at 563 Owensbrook Drive here in Smyrna. I've been a resident since 2020, but we've been in the area 35 years. Just off the road, houses I've built over the years. I was fortunate enough to be able to retire in 2020. Still work part-time, but one of the considerations procedure for being able to file for any kind of town tax relief for seniors. And I'd be glad to give a packet of things that I have printed up that kind of compares Smyrna to our other towns locally. And some of the things that maybe could be implemented possibly that would relieve some of the 100% increase that happens. disheartening, especially after trying to do everything we can to be responsible and good citizens and all that. So there are a few avenues that some of the other towns have taken that give a little bit more relief to people in that patron. Is that okay to give this to somebody?

Yeah. I'll give it to you.

So that kind of hit on that just lightly hit on that. I'm sure you're all aware of what some of the other towns do and all, but if there's any kind of considerations that I know shared amongst people on my page that are concerned.

And is that in addition to what the town already does?

Yeah, well, this is more in line with inflation and those type of things where the limit's set higher because basically it kind of looks to me like It's not that much more about poverty that you can get that relief where, you know, I just think seniors should maybe have a little bit more of a break of E65 in April. So I'm concerned this year, of course, going into next year to be able to apply. Just it kind of limits some of the things you might think about spending on a little businesses and that type of stuff because of the extra increase. You know, it's a significant amount. So it's not... So that was that topic. And then the other thing, and I spoke to Mark Pugh, who stopped by my house a few weeks ago, and he said a lot of the area residents had the same concern. I also took the liberty of printing up viable alternatives to the Walmart distribution centers, yard jockeys and whatnot. It is an imposition in how much sound is emitted from that area. We're just on Owensbrook, but I know it travels further. According to Mark, UVs spoke to some of the residents outlying a little further. But can I understand your safety concerns and OSHA type of regulations? to reduce that amount of noise pollution. And they're just as much approved by OSHA. So those are the two topics. I have literature here that I can pass along. Thank you. If anybody wants to review it, great.

Thank you. And thank you for doing the research to give to us so that we have something to start with.

Awesome. Okay.

Well, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for doing it. What if you have time left? Thank you again.

Thank you. Weber wants to go next. Good evening. I'm Thea Robinson. I just have a quick question. On 13...

113 Southbound at Brantford Road. What is going on there? Are they going to widen the street there? Because it's a lot of construction.

That's not the town. I'm sorry. I knew the answer.

It is a lot of construction.

Yeah, it is. Okay, thank you.

Maybe they're going to make it better.

I hope so.

Cross your fingers and your toes.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Larry Strzeski from the Ashland section. Two questions. In the area known as Smyrna, do we have flock cameras in that area?

No.

Second thing.

Oh, I'm sorry. The state has some flock cameras that are not ours.

But there are flock cameras in the entity known as Smyrna?

Yes.

Okay. Okay.

Not maintained by us, but yes.

We have not taken advantage of anything from that.

In terms of flock?

Yeah.

No, it's not our program.

Okay. Second question. What is Smyrna doing to ensure that the Muslim Brotherhood does not get a foothold in our town? Excuse me? Muslim Brotherhood has been designated as a terrorist organization.

I'm not aware of any Muslim Brotherhood activity in Smyrna. None of my intelligence reports have any of that on it.

And it is a terrorist organization. No.

I don't know the answer to that. Thank you. We defer to the chief. The chief answered.

Any more comments? Any more comments? Any more comments? Okay. Comment section is closed. Okay. Non-agenda items. I am going to start this one. We have canceled some of the meetings that we've had. And there is a reason for that. And I'm going to publicly share why. If the agenda does not substantiate bringing people together using town resources, paying staff, using the electric to have a meeting for 15 minutes, it does not make sense to have staff stay over, pay overtime and charge the taxpayers so that we can say that we've had a meeting. If that means that it is best for us to have one meeting a month and one workshop a month so that we become more educated on what's going on around us, That is one thing. But at this point, when we have canceled meetings, it has been either because we didn't have a quorum or we didn't have enough on the agenda to substantiate spending the money to bring everyone together. Doesn't mean that I don't love you and I don't want to see you, but it means that we have to do what is best for the town. So, with that being said, if anybody... Has questions, please don't hesitate to ask. It doesn't have to go to Facebook. I can answer it 100% over the phone for you. With that being said, Chief.

Yes, you have my monthly report. I will take any questions upon that if you do. I know we have a lot of stuff on your new business, so I'm not going to take a lot of your time. In the report, you see dispatch hiring is closed. We have three candidates in background, hopefully to fill the seat of one of my senior dispatchers who's retiring.

That's sad.

Thank everybody for their help and participation with the bike rodeo. Big success. It was great. We got it in just before the storms rolled in. That was really good. Also in the report, just highlight sergeants Bannon and Toll this month completed their FBI LITA trilogy leadership training. As I sit next to the national vice president of LITA, it's very important piece of our leadership training. Very nice award. It's, it's a very good resume builder for them. And, We'll continue to trickle down through the ranks and get everybody their trilogy. So just wanted to highlight those folks on that accomplishment.

Very nice. Thank you. Town manager?

Same, everybody. We'll see the manager's report. It's a little lengthy, but it has pretty much all the information that we should have that's in there. Just a couple of things that seem to be some hot topics for us. One of the biggest things is you'll notice that it's that time of the year where the fountains are not in Lake Como. It's twofold. One, unfortunately, our vendor that we have been getting stuff from has went out of business. So usually there's a lot of maintenance that goes with that. They go down, they come up, they go down, they come up. We don't have a vendor right now. We are looking for a new vendor and we probably are going to have to replace them because they're broken. So we're working on it. So it's winter time. We usually pull them down anyway. So we're hoping that we will have them at least a vendor identified and they'll be replaced before it's time to get them back on to start with the recirculation of the water in there. So we've been working pretty diligently with our customer service. A lot of times you'll be seeing that We're closed on Thursdays and afternoon. We are working for a lot of training to make sure that they stay on top of things and that they're staying up to date on some changes. There's been some new laws, a few things that are coming on, some new staff. So we are really working on making sure that they stay trained, be able to give the best service that we can for the citizens when they walk through the door. With that, there's some changes coming with the town's organizational structure. just kind of looking with management and just seeing what's going to be best for us operational. So we might see some additional changes that are coming. Nothing that's going to affect anybody or anything like that, but we'll see them. Very excited. I don't think that I've said these words since I've sat in this seat, but we are finally almost done with audits.

Thank you, Kathleen.

Great job. In talking with Kathleen today, and she said that we should have something in writing I'm here in the next week or two. And I just literally, my first thought was, didn't we just get through the last one? So that right there, I just want to say kudos to the finance team, i.e. Kathleen, for making sure that we have the final. And we get a breath for a couple of months before we start. So this will be the first time we were actually caught up.

That's amazing. That's 2022. And thank you. Thank you. And Kathleen, your administration has definitely stepped up and made some significant differences in the list.

Please take a look in there. It does have all the finances in there with updated. the finance report. It's that time of the year. So we have started our budget process. We have met with management. We've gone through the first round of once and then they come to Kathleen and then we laugh at them and we'll come back and say, here's what you really get. So that's our little internal joke. But the reality of it is we're hopefully going to start putting things together. So what will happen is the finance committee will start You'll see them starting to move. And then hopefully we'll have this in front of you guys within the next month. Wonderful. So that's a huge thing. And then we are in the process of starting negotiations with the police department. So that's kind of the final last sitting piece that we're going to need to get the budget together.

So we'll probably have the budget done early.

We have hopes. Yes. Again, we're also speaking.

Thank you. Old business. We do not have any this evening. New business, including discussion on possible action on the following items. A is Kent County Department of Planning Services Division of Community Development application for funding for the town of Smyrna under the Delaware Community Development Block Grant.

is here, and I was going to kind of explain to him he is here with CDBG, correct? But I'm not going to take his thunder, but it is an opportunity for people in the town of Smyrna to take advantage of some money that Kent County is willing to give us.

Thank you for joining us, Aaron.

Good evening, everyone. Like the town manager said, I'm Aaron Cooper, representing Kent County Levee Court, Department of Paying, Division of Community Development. Here to explain a little bit about the federal grant that we apply for each field school year. These are federal funds administered through Delaware State Housing Authority. Each year Kent and Sussex work on a mirror alike. We apply for approximately $2 million split between the counties to provide home repairs to our low to moderate, medium income homes. What the program does, we do anything from electrical, plumbing, roofing, heating, structural renovations. How the program works, we work based off a waiting list. We have a pretty extensive waiting list. What your name comes up on the list specialist free job inspection on the home. And essentially make a list of repairs we take you through our verification process it's all situational depending on income based and household size. must be owner-occupied, and all your county sewer fees, taxes, property assessments are paid up to date. Also, like I said, a household size. So just for example, a two-person household can't make no more than $62,750. That's gross income before taxes. That's just for a two-person household size. There is a stipulation on the program. We do put a lien on the property anywhere from 5 to 10 years. It is a forgivable lease. The threshold for 500 liens is $15,000 or less if we spend $15,000 or less on repairs. And that's just a brief summary on the program, how we qualify you, how it works. We do plan on submitting for this fiscal year coming. We do plan on submitting for the town of Smyrna as one of our target areas. The plan is to submit for a total of approximately $100,000. We submit for that. They could give us more, they could give us less, all dependent upon the government there. But we aim to submit for $100,000. That is roughly 25,000 per unit. So we can get roughly four homes done with that amount. This program has been around longer than I've been alive. We exceed expectations in serving our community, and we've served countless numbers of homeowners in the past years. None of our funding that we have applied for has been recaptured, and I believe that speaks volumes because of the quality of work that we deliver. Because of this success, our waiting list grows daily through word of mouth and also through the visibility of the quality of work that we do. In the years past, we used to go out door to door, hand out flyers. We don't do that much anymore because it creates an influx of calls. So like I said, we have a pretty extensive waiting list, but we're working on getting through that. We currently have about 18 units on our waiting list just for the town of Smyrna alone. What happens next, we will submit our proposals to the housing authority. Once we send over the appropriate documents, once they approve it, we send over the appropriate documents to the town mayor. Lastly, any input as to where repairs are needed within the town, they're greatly appreciated. And that is all I have.

What kind of timeframe does it take before you hear about the approval?

So we submit our approvals in October. We hope to have it mid-November for the rules. The application itself as a whole is due at the end of the year, which is December. So pretty tight timeline with the holidays involved as well. But we do this every year. So they know what they're looking for.

And the lien that you put on the homes, that's to protect you if the owner sells the property?

Yeah. So it's a stipulation put on the program just so nobody can make a profit from the program. Yeah. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you for joining us. And I will also, this is one of our priors. I can leave this. And Andrew explains every day and I explain tonight. Thank you.

That would be wonderful. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Capital bond budget allocation. Thank you for joining us.

All right, so my first thing today is the 2023 bond reallocation. There we go. So the original bond budget allocation had funds for the water tower included that were not bond money. So our spreadsheets have kind of always been off. This is something we found with the 2025 audit. So what I'm requesting today is to take those extra funds that were not actually allocated to allocate them to projects that we still have open. So I have the current bond budget up there. We have four projects that are not complete yet. We have the water tower, the well house number four over on the sunny side, the electric circuit upgrade. and the North Duck Creek Utility Extension. And I'm requesting to allocate those funds to the water tower, the well number four, and the North Duck Creek Utility Extension.

Where are the funds currently allocated?

They're not allocated.

They're not allocated.

So overall, it's not going to have- We're not moving anything from a current project. We're just taking unallocated funds and allocating them to projects that are already bond budget.

Okay. Do we need to make a motion on that or can that just happen as an administrative decision?

I think we do need a motion. I'd like to make a motion that we approve the request for the 2023 bond reallocation as per staff's request.

So moved. Is there any discussion? All those in favor?

Aye.

All those opposed? Motion is carried. Thank you. And 2026 operating budget amendment.

This is my second request. So these are shared costs that get allocated at the end of the year with our audit adjustments. I changed our process this year that we allocate them throughout the year at invoice level. The reason that this needs a budget amendment is because it's moving across all of the different funds instead of just saying a general fund. I did give you a full breakdown online. with all of the accounts and the individual amounts that would be reallocated. So it's our IT maintenance agreements, the liability insurance, internet access, telephones, computer software, bank fees, auditing fees, actuarial services, and the payroll processing fees.

I didn't see what was online. What you're doing is you're taking money that was already approved and just moving it around.

So it's staying in the categories. It's just going to different departments.

What do you mean it's staying in categories?

Like the IT maintenance, we had a current budget of $400,000. It's going to stay $400,000, but it's no longer just in IT. It's going to every single department that utilizes the IT services.

Gotcha. The breakdown is online.

And where is it online?

It was uploaded with all of your manager.

It's in board pack. It's in board pack. On board. On board.

On board.

I'm sorry. On board. Yeah, we used to use board pack.

On board. I didn't see that on board.

It took me a minute because I said the same thing you did.

I'm like, I didn't get it on board. Okay.

I'll make sure it's up there.

I have a motion to amend the 2026 operating budget, please.

I'd like to make a motion that we amend the 2026 operating budget per staff request. Second.

Is there any discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Those opposed? Motion is carried. And PPCAC rate adjustment.

So I'm actually changing this from an adjustment to just an update, kind of as like an educational piece. I will be, I'll make this a monthly thing with my finance report going forward because I will need an adjustment by the end of the year. So the PPCAC is our purchase power cost adjustment charge. we can collect up to 3% of our purchase power cost above our purchase cost recovery per kilowatt hour. So currently 7.86 cents per kilowatt hour that we charge our customers goes towards covering our DMEC bill. The PPCAC is an additional rate that we charge our customers to make sure that we are covering the full cost of the purchase power. So currently we have at 0.0277, no, 244. We decreased it this year because we started the year with such a high liability. So we have been, through our bill cycles, it has been decreasing. We are currently at $96,559. Our goal is to get as close to zero, but not go negative. So right now we're still on point. probably within the next three months, I'll be back asking for an adjustment just to increase it a little bit.

Thank you.

Any questions?

No. So thank you. And thank you for explaining PPCAC. Can't say it. You had a tongue twister going there and did very well, by the way.

Thank you.

Thank you, Kathleen. Discussion. Can a smart, a comprehensive plan.

So I'm going to start this one out. And I probably am going to hand this over to our chairman. Who is sitting back there. There might be some questions, but we're, we've talked about this. We're at the point of. We, we have a choice, right? So every five years, we as a town must go through an update for our town comprehensive plan. It was approved in 2020. Yeah. 2021, something like that. So we're at that five-year mark. We have two choices. One choice is for us to go through a full, complete overhaul of it and look at it as the 10-year review. So at the five-year, you can look at it and you can say, hey, I'm happy with the way the comprehensive plan is currently and we're good to go. You can also say, hey, I'd like to make some minor adjustments or you can go and reset it And you can start over. And you're basically restarting the clock. With that, so this July, there was a new bill that was just passed, which is the Housing for Every Delawarean Act. And that is basically talking about affordable housing. The plus to doing a full 10 year would be we can get some credits for making sure that we meet some of the metrics that are required by this new bill. I can tell you the committee seems to have an interest in making sure that we go through the full 10 year review. It is at council's discretion to make that decision on whether or not you move to the five-year or the 10-year. There is an impact, a significant financial impact that comes with it. And it is something that will take several months. I have been in contact with Berdantes, Barrett and I have spoke. Mr. Noonan and I have spoke. I've spoke with state planning. So everybody is just kind of waiting for us to make that decision as far as what we do and how we move with that. So that's why it's on the agendas for you to give us some discretion and direction as far as what we need to do.

Right, Barrett?

Basically. Yeah.

Mr. Noonan, would you like to add anything?

That's a bad thing to let a politician say. You just sit there and be quiet. Tori's been dealing with this. As you know, you had staff change and that added something to it, etc. And your planning commission is prepared to move forward with an update to the comprehensive plan, which is required. I mean, there's no if and or buts about it. One of the issues that we've got going on is the state of Delaware decided that we needed to have affordable housing. That is going to take a long look at what we have in the house market. Because remember, you're dealing with builders.

Can somebody define what affordable housing is? Yeah, I was going to go up. No.

Yeah, I would love for somebody to define it. That'd be fantastic. That has to be done.

Yeah, that'd be great.

And the reason that I kind of put tongue-in-cheek when I first started, I don't want to take a lot of time, because I know you've got to have your executive session and et cetera, but it's interesting to know that the first town comp plan in 1973, you don't have to do the math, it was a while ago, The 1973 plan indicated that utility systems were adequate for doubling our population. Housing deterioration and lack of affordable housing in low- and moderate-income persons and families was identified as a need. Well, we're still working on it. So I think what Tory's saying is, or the town manager is, We're probably to the point that we need to take the most expedient way to get to our comprehensive plan meeting the state's requirement, which is we have to re-look at affordable housing. How are we going to make that work? I don't know the answer to that. I can't wait to the first meeting when somebody from the state comes and tells me what affordable housing is and how you're going to make a builder build it for you. Okay? I don't know the answer to that. Because I can tell you, as your planning chairman, anytime we talk about apartments, the neighbors get wound up. Anytime we talk about smaller homes, the neighbors get wound up. You're going to affect my property values, etc. But I can assure you that the four members that are along with me on the planning commission are ready to move forward. And we're going to start moving forward come meeting this month. Now, whether we do a five-year or a 10-year, I'd like direction from you all. That's all we're asking for. If we get the five-year one, that doesn't change what we're going to have to research and so. The only thing to keep in the back of your mind is then five years from now, actually four and a half now, you're going to start the 10-year process, meaning you're going to have to review the entire comp plan. Last thing on tongue-in-cheek, I like the 10-year one because when you reach my age, you know you won't have to do the damn thing again.

Thank you for your honesty.

Anybody have any questions in all seriousness?

My question was going to be what is the recommendation?

I would say, I mean, the Planning and Zoning Commission does not have one. But as chairperson, I would say, based on the information the town manager has provided, And based on what we need to accomplish, I would ask you to endorse a five-year update to our plan. Thank you.

Thank you.

Do we know what the financial impact could be?

Well, what I got was, and there's a little confusion, Barrett and I had the conversation, but it could potentially be about $100,000.

And is there a recommendation from staff or Barrett? on five or 10 year? And what do we gain or what do we lose?

So being the new guy to this and trying to understand the whole thing, you're going to have to do it again in five years either way. Yeah. Like that's just the reality of it, right? It's just, it's a matter of whether or not you decide to go all in now and you reset it. And in five years you get to do the smaller revisit or you do the smaller now and do the bigger in another five years.

Here's a question for you. So if we do a five year, right, the things that will be incorporated within that plan are, what is the timeline of actually seeing those things implemented? Like for instance, I mean, because that could be.

1973, are we going to go back there?

I think it's a fair question. The reason that I just hesitate for a second is if you did, my understanding is, and maybe Barrett knows better than I do, They want it done by January or so. You know, you're putting the affordable portion into your comp plan. So they put a timer on this thing. I might be wrong, but my understanding is the last time I read the bill that there was a clock to this thing because they want it done. They want affordable housing in there. The second thing is, Councilman, The one thing I've learned in my time on planning is that a builder will stand right there and tell you anything you want to hear. And they are ready. And if you don't approve it tonight, the project won't happen. And you approve it tonight. And five years later, we still don't have anything coming up out of the ground. Right?

Amen.

So to answer the question on when would we see the results of it, you know, I guess my – I don't have a problem with it. I wish it would work. But you can't build McMansions that cost $400,000 and call it affordable housing. You can't build apartment houses that are so high end that $2,000 a month rent is affordable housing. And I just don't know how we're going to get around that. But to answer the question straight up, if we were to approve this and you were, we've had recommendations and you were to approve it by the end of the year and the developers bought into it, you're looking at four to five years.

I have a question. Yeah. Of the land that is available for development in Smyrna, it is owned, purchased, locked and loaded. There are very little that is available for someone new to come in and purchase. Do we have any reason to believe that the developers are going to change the plans that they already have for those properties to make it affordable housing?

Again, Madam Mayor, not knowing how to identify affordable, you are correct. I mean, we've got We've already approved, and it's something that I've asked staff to do a report on, Helen, is we've already approved across from the rest area. That's done. The Watson Farm is probably the one that's getting ready to come back into the process. What we've got, down by Tractor Supply is done. Thomas Inland House is done. Joe Goldsboro Road is done. These are already done, approved, you all approved the site plans. They're done. Getting some developer to come in and change it, good luck. But I would also, you're right, we have very little ground that is not already done. I mean, you know... And keep in mind that Livable Delaware also was asking or is asking that the planning commission make a recommendation to the town council for you to adopt that we change our zoning rules, that we make it easier to build certain houses. That right now, if a developer comes in, we say you have to have five amenities in your project if it's a large enough one. They're saying that's too many. The state says that's too many. Reduce them. These are things that your commission is going to look at because that's like saying, OK, every developer would rather get rid of the park and build a house on it. That's money. But then that puts a requirement on you all to have amenities for the people who live there. So we're going to deal with this. This is not an easy solution. And one other thing. I just have to say this for my four fellow members. Keep in mind, we went through our total zoning when we did the highway commercial. We put in over probably 20 meetings. as we developed that portion of it. When we redid the 20 comprehensive plan, we had public hearings. We had public meetings. And you want to know what your commissioners get paid? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And I'm not looking for a pay. Okay, I'm just saying that they're going to put in a lot of hours between now and when our recommendation comes to you. Many hours sitting right there going over plans that would make your eyes go across. Right? We've got to look at setbacks. We've got to look at the size of the homes. We've got to look at roadways. We've got to look at the amenities. We have to look at all of that. Hopefully, we're all on the same business, but you all get paid the big bucks to make the final decision.

That's right.

You know, no, no, no, you look at it, you know, those who have to make the decision.

You probably were okay until then.

I'm sorry, I've taken up too much of your time. No, the knowledge is good.

I have a question. When was the last 10-year plan done? 2020. Yeah. So we will be doing four years anyway.

Yeah.

Well, it seems to me is that this is going to, if we do a 10-year plan, it's going to cost $100,000, right? And we're basically looking at something that's rather impossible to do.

We don't have a hard definition of what affordable is.

I think from the standpoint, the manager could probably fill you in on more what the cost is going to be and people are going to have to support this and et cetera. In the past, we were able to do part of our comprehensive plan without using outside resources. That is not going to happen this time. So when we look at the 10-year plan, if I was to say, yeah, let's do the 10-year plan. I mean, if I got to go through the whole plan, it's only about that thick. If I'm going to go through the whole plan and do it, yeah, that's not a problem. The problem I have is it's the first few meetings of figuring out what does livable Delaware mean and what part of our plan do we have to address immediately to meet the state's requirements.

But the state doesn't even know what the requirements are because they haven't defined them.

No, they're from New Catholic County. You're right. You don't have to laugh about that. Wilmington is telling us how to grow. They've done such a good job on Middletown. Anyway, I apologize. You are right. But they know, sir, councilman, I will say, again, not tongue-in-cheek, we missed the boat. Okay? I'll say we. We did not get on board with those other six or seven towns that the state offered to come in and help work with you. We didn't get that assistance. So that's what the town manager is working on right now is getting that assistance that we're going to need from the state. I'll bet you if we all sat down at a table that every one of us would have an idea of what a port of Belgium would be.

But they're all different.

And every one of them would be different. Right. Yeah. Thank you. I'm impressed.

Let me ask this. I'm sorry for coming up with a question. So it sounds like then in lieu of this bill having been passed, not just by the state, but remember at the federal level, they also pass a similar piece of legislation to address the same issue. So whether we do a five-year or 10-year, we're still going to be faced with the same thing of having to address that piece. So my question is, What between the two different designations of a five or 10 year plan, what are we looking at out of pocket wise what we have to pay? Because we do a five year now. Then in about four years, you might say four years, a little less than four years, we're going to be right back here again.

But we'll be back here again anyway, because we've got to do a five year review.

We're at the 5 year.

Well, we're at the 5, but if we did the 10, 5 years from now, we'd see. Okay.

Every 5 years.

We're either doing. So you're doing it anyway.

Okay. 5 years at the review stage, we can just keep the plan.

Yes.

So it wouldn't be a cost anymore at the reviews.

So it theoretically should be a reduced cost, right? You're not redoing the whole.

So then there, what we would need then, I guess, for a future meeting is like a recommendation from staff or something to brought before us to actually vote on to move forward.

If you feel like you need more information than you have tonight, if you let us know what information you'd like, you know, then we can come back with answers to those questions.

Just to clarify what your question was, this plan is only going to affect land that doesn't already have a site plan already. And that's, I mean, how much land is that? Not much.

Tori, are you guys able to pull something together like that for a future meeting just to kind of give like a summary?

When you say pull things together, what are we talking about?

Like, in other words, a five-year plan, just kind of like some highlights of what it is that will be addressed and the existing parcels of land that we're looking at.

I think I understand the question. What I think we're missing a little bit on this is if we do a five-year plan, what you're saying there. Five-year review. Yeah, a five-year review. And you walk over there and you look at, and I pointed to Matt and say, these are the vacant areas that are large enough to worry about, right? That's not the issue. The issue is not the five-year plan review coming before your planning commission. which is our requirement. I mean, that's state law requires us to do it. Then we make a recommendation to you. The issue is not us sitting there going, yep, looks good. We're happy with it. Send it up the pipeline, right? The problem is the state said you must include affordable housing in your plan. And what I'm saying is even if We came up with what is affordable housing. That then requires us to look at our zoning, look at the amenities, look at the setbacks on the houses, look at all types of things that's in the zoning that would need to be looked at before we send it up the pipeline here. I would love to be able to sit there and go, this is what the state wants. Here's our 10 pages. We're going to incorporate it into our five-year plan, and we're going to move on. It's not that simple.

Just to summarize, correct me if I'm wrong, what I'm hearing is we can do the five-year review, which is what's required, and say, yes, it's good, but we still have to adhere to the new rules that have been enacted by the state, which sounds like You at least have to do 80% of what you would have to do for a 10-year comprehensive plan anyway. Am I close?

I would say I wouldn't want to put a percentage on it, Councilman, because I'm not sure, but it would be a lot more work. It's going to be closer to the 10-year review. But again, I stand before you. with only a limited amount of knowledge of what the state really wants. Okay? And I know I get myself in trouble because these are recorded, whatever, but I'm going to tell you that The information is not readily available to the average citizen on what the state is asking.

So I read through the new statute. It's probably been six weeks, right? So I don't remember all of it. One of the things that struck me as being particularly problematic, right? So if you think about it, right, what is going to be more affordable? A large house on five acres or a small house on 5,000 square feet, right? The smaller house is going to be more affordable. So as I recall from the statute, that's one of the things that it was really geared towards is giving developers options for reduced properties, increased density. Now, one of the issues that I saw that was biggest for the town of Smyrna was that, and I'm not going to have the dates right, but they basically said, if you have enacted basically measures that would have otherwise qualified for what we're looking for, and you've done it within the last two years, then that can count, right? And you're going to be in a good position. The problem with us is that we were more progressive than most places have been. So we adopted what I think should actually qualify as a lot of this affordable housing stuff, but we did it before the window that they were looking at. So we did it in 2020, 2021. And they were saying, if you've done it since 2023 coming forward, then that can count. And so now we're in a position where it's like we've already enacted a lot of this stuff to allow for increased density. And if they're going to require us to allow for even more increased density, We're going to be looking at skyscrapers everywhere in the town of Smyrna. It's the only thing you can build, right? A slight exaggeration, but not entirely, right? So that's one of the things that we're just going to have to sort out with them, is whether or not we can get any credit when you look at our code, which is actually quite progressive code. If we can get any credit for the stuff that we did that's just outside of that window, Right. And so these are just we don't have answers for. Right. And the question about affordable housing, the question about how you enforce this, we can adopt all these measures. But, you know, does it then mean that, you know, the developers come in and build half a million dollar properties on postage stamp size lots? We don't know. Right. There's just a lot of unknown questions right now. And so, you know, as Mr. Noonan was basically indicating, he doesn't have answers. I don't have answers. A lot of people don't have answers. We're just kind of left backpedaling a little bit, trying to figure out what we're going to do with all this. theoretically speaking, a five-year update should be significantly easier to do than a 10-year revision, right? We've just fallen into this weird cycle right now where we have the affordability component that we have to address at the same time, right? And so then the question is whether or not it makes sense to address the affordability component with a five-year update or if The affordability component is going to be so pervasive throughout the plan that by the end, it's just going to have made more sense to just do a full 10-year update, right? Because it's going to just permeate every part of the plan. So we don't exactly have answers for all that, but that's just kind of what we're juggling with right now.

And I appreciate you bringing that up because from one standpoint, if you all go out Bradford Road, before you get to the railroad tracks, last development on the right, land village concept. Town of Smart is one of the first ones to get that. Smaller lots. Closer to the street. Affordable housing. Want to know how many developers jumped on it? It's there. It's a zone. We have it available. The only issue is you can't make a developer come in and do it. Build them. Right? So it depends on what's going on there. Mr. Edwards is correct. you got a planning commission that was ahead of the curve, right? And you all supported that and adopted it. The only problem is we don't know where to go from here. So we're starting the end of this month. Your commission is starting the end of this month. If you want, while you're trying to get some information and getting more research and whatever, We're going to attack it as the affordable housing portion of it first, rather than the whole plan, all right? Now, that's not stopping you all from saying you want the whole plan done. What I'm saying is we're going to move forward with this, right? And if you all come back and say, yep, five years is where we want to go right now, we'll already have started. If you say, no, we want to do a full review, we will have already started. portion of it. I just don't want to be a parent. We're very good here. Knock on wood. We're very good here because of council and because of you all. We don't have a problem to have in Sussex. How many times are you reading the state news that they're in court? Right? Or their board of adjustment is in trouble or their planning commission is in trouble. We don't have that problem because we've done our homework and we've got a good plan. So I know you all have a lot on your plate or whatever, and I would say if you want to think about it, let your manager come back at your next meeting with a recommendation. All right? And let me get my group together, and we'll discuss this. and we'll come back to you with the town manager, and then you guys can make that decision. But the process will already start. Okay? So now the thing you want to say, Madam Mayor, is thank you very much, Mr. Noonan. Sit down and shut up.

I'd never say that. No, you'd say be quiet.

Barrett, is there a flexibility or do we know who to contact to ask for an amendment or?

So we need to start working through this, right? I mean, we've had conversations about this was like signed into law, I don't know, like July. Right. I mean, we're talking like really recent stuff here. And it just so happens that our cycle is aligned perfectly with this ish. Right. So these are things we're working through. We're going to have to contact state planning department, you know, and just try to see, you know, if there can be any flexibility and, you know, I mean, yeah. So I don't, unfortunately I don't have any answers right now, but we're going to start working through this as Mr. Noonan said, I mean, just beginning at the end of this month, right. Trying to figure out how much we need to do, how much we can get credit for and, um, Yeah, we'll do the best we can. And it'll come together. It always does, right? You know, we're just for a little bit kind of, you know, finding our way through the darkness.

So at this point, are we interested in voting on a 10-year plan or are we interested in waiting for additional information? And will the additional information make a decision, make a difference in the decision that we need to make?

I mean, Mr. Noonan, do you think that there's value in having a conversation with the rest of the climate commission about whether a five or a 10 year makes the most sense at this juncture?

We'll believe this, but I've got a couple of members that talk more than I do. I really, I really, well, somebody try the former council. I, I would bear, I, you know, I sometimes, I would say yes. I would like to talk to the commissioners. I really would. And Madam Mayor, I understand what you're, but you all delaying this until your next meeting, meaning, you know, it would be the first one in October, right?

No.

It's not going to overly affect the next meeting you're going to have after your meeting. Right. Okay.

So now you're going to move forward either way.

And so we're moving forward. So what you've got this evening is a briefing from the manager and the planning and zoning chairperson that we're planning on moving forward. And we're going to have something for you at your October meeting. that is going to say, we recommend five-year plan or we recommend the 10-year plan. Here's our reason for that. And also, I think what I've heard, and we can work with the manager or whatever, is identifying those lots course of the land that are still available in the town of Smyrna for forest field work.

And waiting until the October meeting will not hurt you. Will not hurt us, no sir, it will not.

Town manager, does that affect what you need to do in any way?

So we should have that on the agenda for the... Yes.

Yes. And the current comprehensive plan is online, correct?

Yes, I believe so.

I think it is.

Don't try to print it out.

It's big. I was going to say, they're like micro things. No, that is something you look at online. That isn't a printout. Okay. With that, I ask for a motion to move into executive session, please.

I'd like to make a motion that we move into executive session.

Is there a second?

Second.

All those in favor? Aye. Those opposed?

Aye. Thank you. Second.

All those in favor? Aye. Those opposed? Thank you very much for joining us this evening, and we'll see you in two weeks.