City Council - workshop

Good to start, or do you have any official business? Well, I just want to, yeah, let me get things started here. Welcome, everybody, to Sherwood City Council meeting on July 21st, 2026 at 5.34 p.m. We've got two items on the agenda tonight with the Washington County Sheriff's Office here for their annual update. Thanks for being here. And then after that, we have, I think, round two or three on Old Town Feasibility Study. So with that, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to Craig. Did you want to introduce our guests? Your name's on here, so that's where I go. I can, but you did a pretty good job of it. Go ahead. Okay.

Thank you, Mayor and Council Members. My name is John Cook. I'm the Under Sheriff for the Washington County Sheriff's Office. I have with me Commander Tim Chisholm. The Sheriff wished she could be here tonight, but she had some other conflicts. This is our annual getting around talking about the state of the sheriff's office and the services that we provide to each of the communities here in Washington County. So just starting off, wherever you live in Washington County, we're here to serve you. Starting off with the map of the county that we're all completely aware of, looking at really the cities on there, our municipal partners, the rural unincorporated areas and the urban unincorporated areas. And so out of the 614,000 folks in Washington County in some capacity with the Sheriff's Office or every one of them. And we're going to talk a little bit about that today, kind of the intersection, just as we go through pieces. Really, we're primary responders for the unincorporated areas and that 215,000-ish people that live in the ESPD areas, as well as the 35,000-40,000 people that live in the rural areas, as well as our municipal partners. Parties North Plains, Banks, and Gaston that we provide service to. And then also the rest of our partners, you know, Chief Hanlon here in the city of Sherwood and his team are great partners. And we will talk about some of the areas where we partner with them in providing services really to help keep Washington County one of the safest major urban counties in Oregon. Next slide. This is really just kind of a graphic to highlight that. We all have a role in government. We're so fortunate here in Washington County that the municipal governments, the county government, all are intertwined and work well together. And we in public safety are no different. We work with the Sherwood Police Department. They provided the primary patrols. And then there's some overlay that the Sheriff's Office helps provide in a variety of areas when it comes to some of the larger investigations and specialty units. We'll talk about a couple of those today. But what it really comes down to is we all have a role in serving our communities and how can we do it as efficiently as possible. At the bottom there is really some of those countywide infrastructure that we kind of help support our municipal partners and all members of Washington County with. Some of those are by via state statute, the sheriff is mandated to do such as the jail. And there's other and search and rescue and there's other ones that come into play that as we have evolved as a community into a larger metropolitan area that we really need to make sure that we have those services to support all of our residents. And we're we're much stronger together. We're much stronger. We pull our resources together along these areas and partner with the county and our partners.

Next slide. I get to talk a little bit about the special teams, but really what the special teams do is they really keep all of Washington County safe because they're collaborative interagency teams that are run at the county level. Police departments can provide the essential day-to-day operations, but a lot of these critical public safety services operate, again, at the county level, and they include special teams like investigations, our major crimes team, search and rescue, marine patrol, air support, as the undersheriff just talked about, but also our crash analysis reconstruction team and other specialty teams that go out and really help put investigations together to put solid cases together.

Can we talk about some of the technology pieces to us? All the community members we've served, a lot of them don't realize where the jurisdictional boundaries are. So there's things that we have developed with the Sheriff's Office, like our public safety web network, which we share with our municipal partners, which gives them access on their phones and on their mobile devices to essential public safety information, whether they're looking for somebody that may be in the jail or some information that had been released They can go through and do different searches on there to have information at their fingertips. That's something we find that at the regional level, we're able to provide that and kind of pull some of those resources together.

The major goal of our interagency special teams, the county-wide special teams, is to provide support in situations that are either critical or require additional resources that are just beyond the capabilities of one agency. Also, the ability to train year-round, to train on specialty techniques like our SWAT team or tactical negotiations team, search and rescue, bringing those expertise and those special teams wherever they need to go within Washington County. I guess, again, the main thing is to really find a way to resolve situations as peacefully as we can. There's a major focus on that, especially when we talk about mental health crisis, SWAT response, and then crash reconstruction.

Right now, some of the federal funds and grants that we receive are being examined, what we can receive from federal government currently. But one of the things that has historically made us stronger as a group when we pool our resources together is being competitive for those grants. When we're looking at things on a more regional basis versus just an individual jurisdiction, we've been more competitive. And so over time, a lot of the big dollar equipment that we've received, and we'll talk a little bit more about some of that, is coming from grants that we're able to look at when we're pooling our resources as a regional effort.

Grants are a great way. Technology is getting more and more expensive. And so getting those resources, great resources really help because investigations are getting more into the technical. We're seeing a lot more AI involved in process and It just gets more and more expensive. These are some of the specialty teams that support countywide resources. Our air support unit, our crash analysis reconstruction team, our CAT team, which focuses on capturing sex offenders and those who are out on warrant status, trying to get them back into custody. Crisis and the Coney negotiation team, which works hand in hand with our tactical negotiations team to try and resolve critical incidences, canine unit, Marine patrol, search and rescue, as we talked about, and then our mobile field force. And I'll kind of give you an overview of some of these teams.

Before you jump into the specifics, just on the cost side, you know, like for instance, I can't think of an agency that doesn't use Axion cameras. And it seems kind of crazy. We weren't, aren't working together as a region. to bulk purchasing to lower costs. I'm also thinking in terms of, you know, to share costs or any kind of conversations going on around how to pull those costs so we can reduce our overall costs?

That's a great question. And I'll say that we have had a lot of those conversations. We have not been as coordinated as we should in some of those areas. Some of the areas we'll talk about, like the DFR briefly, I was just having a conversation with another local jurisdiction about that because we are getting ready to expand our program to about 15 different sites or 15 different drones throughout the urban areas of the county. our cost is a little bit less than theirs, where they're looking at three different drones. And so just by having that economies of scale.

Not just the drone cost, the operations center too, because then you can share the load across the county.

You're spot on. And so that's what we're talking about, and staffing for some of those. So we're looking to, as we set up our pilot program, for DFR. And I don't think that's on our kind of jumping ahead a little bit. I'll touch on that.

What's that stand for?

DFR drones is a first responder.

Okay, thank you.

And so if you watch some of our social media, we've been piloting this for a while, no pun intended, but we do have pilots that are working seven days a week on flying these drones. And 40% of the times in our pilot program, they're on scene before our deputies are on scene. And so it's, let's say a major crash. We're working with TVFNR as well as a partner on this. If there's a major crash at an intersection and the drone gets overhead as fire trucks are coming and police officers are responding and we see it's been moved off, all those responding units can slow down if we can tell there's no injuries, makes the public safety safer, makes our staff and fire staff safer, and can also adjust some resources. And so as we've tested this out, we've been testing it in Aloha for the last several months and we're getting ready to expand it. We can see the cost effectiveness and efficiencies provided by this technology. And then there's areas that make sense for us to partner with each other. But really staffing some of those centers, like you said, could be an area that we could be able to expand. share some resources it feels like opportunity to do it right from the start versus which we do here in Washington county and so that's where again it just when we talk about some of these other teams we're going to discuss it's really those innovation partnerships yeah and when you start looking at multi-jurisdiction instead of three in this one four and this one two and that one maybe it's one less each because you can exactly yeah another quick question on DFR are the

Are the drone pilots sworn officers?

Currently, yes. When you look across the nation, different agencies are utilizing it differently. Some are using sworn officers, some are using non-sworn officers. In our pilot program, we've used sworn deputies and some sworn officers. Our remotely operated vehicle team is an interagency team. And we've had a couple of our city partners in the flight deck, so to speak, flying the drones. There's a time and a place. I could see some areas where they may not need to be sworn. But when we have a critical incident and there's life safety issues, we do see the value currently in having sworn deputies in there, getting on the radio, letting community members know that if they need, or our deputies responding to a call, if they see somebody with a weapon, being able to get out critical life safety information in a timely manner is essential.

Thank you. So back when I first started in the car team back in, what, thank you, 899, it took us probably six hours to do scenes because we get out there with a tape measure and we go out and we measure everything. We now have 3D scanners. We now have drones that we can use for aerial mapping. So we're really trying to, in all of our teams, we're trying to maximize efficiency to minimize the amount of time our partners are out of the cities. So if we have a Sherwood officer on card and this crashes in Beaverton, We want to try and minimize the amount of time they're out of the city so we can be cognizant of their time, but also do a better job of these investigations because digital mapping, the digital measuring is way more accurate than our human measuring. So it helps us document evidence, helps us put together solid cases so we can prosecute people when they are driving impaired, when they kill somebody or seriously kill somebody. Our mental health response team is, in my opinion, one of, actually it's my most favorite team, but it's probably one of our most critical teams because it provided a resource that we didn't have before. And it prepares a deputy and a master's level clinician in a vehicle to respond to mental health crisis real time. And depending on what the resource is needed at that scene, we've got it. If a deputy is needed, we got it. If a deputy isn't needed, they can support the clinician and it is. with more and more mental health crisis in our community, a lot more crisis calls, and we're providing these services all around Washington County. South Cities has a partner, and they do part-time with our team, and so it's fantastic. Go ahead.

I was going to say, so we have this on two of our shifts, and we've been talking about, well, do we need it on the third and stuff like that. Is that the kind of thing? I mean... just like drones where we have drones and you know, is there some savings there that we can do where we can say, Hey, we need some coverage on the third shift, but maybe not full time.

And we have lots of, so we have deputies that are, um, Brained as an HRT deputies that aren't on the team. So they fill in those roles. If there's a ship that needs to be filled, we can do that. I know that our partner agencies do as well. So we can combine our resources in that way. We all use the same mental health provider. So the clinicians are all coming from the same pool. So there's some cost savings in that.

So currently, if I could add to that, we have eight teams countywide with our South County team here. with Tiger 12, and I'm sure we're sharing a team. We have other counties, the sheriff's office using deputies that run county-wide, and then Hillsborough also has a team. All of the teams are regional. South County tries to focus down in the south, but if they're short, our other teams can come down and respond. In addition to that, when those teams are not on, again, like Commander Tannenbaum was saying, the clinicians are contracted through Washington County Health Team Services through LifeWorks Northwest. When we do not have teams on, they have a crisis response team. And that mental health crisis response team can respond after hours to any of our police officers or deputies. It's just there's a little bit of a delay until they get there. So we always have 24 hours.

a venn diagram of how this is all getting paid for like do you guys understand that i mean are we are we paying for a mental health person to be on the team with the sherwood department but they can go anywhere at least you're at a cost with tigard and right that's what i do my understanding was you got a grant for that but we don't there's this we don't necessarily pay them when they cover us just like they don't they don't we don't charge them when one of us But as we're talking about, well, do we need one on the third shift?

That would be on us to hire. Well, I didn't figure out.

Us to hire one specifically in our department. Okay. All right.

And I think it's also partnership with us. So those are the collaborative communications that we have across the county. Where's the need? And Washington County Mental Health kind of helps provide that overlay for all the police departments. When we look at the calls for service, we're really looking at where it's an expensive resource to have a police officer and a mental health clinician out there. And so we don't necessarily want them sitting idle. So if it's, for example, three o'clock in the morning, They would not be going call to call. Or when we're looking at those peak hours and swing shift, we generally see them very, very busy. They're not there to help other police officers, but we just want to make sure that we're using all of our resources well. And then we watch those calls for service. We have expanded it over time. It started off with really just one deputy and clinician. Now we're up to eight, eight different teams. And we've expanded the hours as well. We started early in the morning. Some of those morning hours don't call for service. If we start to put that on a regional level to South County, Pinkerton, Tigard, Sheriff's Office, we can talk about, do we need to add clinicians? Can that come from Washington County Mental Health? Can it come from a pooled resource? And then the staffing of those positions could also affect that conversation. Okay.

I'm assuming it's the same way. If there's a resource that's needed anywhere in the county, they get on the radio and say, is there an HRT team on? If And yeah, they would respond.

By the way, I'm super glad that we have that cooperative relationship. It's more of as a small city trying to figure out how to pay for this. I go, okay, well, yeah, where's the money coming from?

The public safety local option money is paid for some of those, that kind of the backlog of public safety services. So that's why we see some of those kind of like efforts.

Great, great questions. Our mobile field force is designed to respond to major gatherings, large instances of public unrest. And their main goal is to protect the constitutional rights of everybody involved, those protesting and those just going about their business. Fortunately, we don't see the volume of these types of calls as our partner agencies and other jurisdictions around us do. But we do train very closely with them because we can learn from the lessons that they've learned and get up to date, get our teams up to speed so they are prepared to respond in the most professional way, backed with the latest case law and understanding what their constraints are and how to protect people the best that they can. And this is a, you know, if there was a protest in Sherwood, it was something that we could stand up to support. Again, a counter, an interagency counter.

Usually those are not about having time.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yes. Not always. The information isn't always accurate, but yeah. But lots of social media posting. I just came from the investigations team. I was investigating. and I had a special investigations unit, two detectives, three detectives, but they would look for social media posts and kind of farm data to see where these were going to be to kind of keep real-time intel and decide, work with the commanders of the whole field It's going to be X number of people. This is their agenda. So just to kind of keep and communicate and keep everybody in the loop.

Is the response different if there's some sort of spontaneous protest or riot or whatever you want to call it? Yeah, it would say type of team, same type of response.

So again, like most of our county teams, they're deputies and police officers who work regular patrol shifts. equipment in their cars with them so if there's something that spontaneously happens that we weren't able to prepare for that will be a call that will come out through dispatch any mobile field force we'll get the leadership of that team to start coordinating response so they it can happen rather quickly it's obviously better if we know about it ahead of time so we can pre-plan those instances but yeah it's just like our technical negotiations team if a crisis pops off in beaverton or sherwood we're going to start sending people that way as quickly as we possibly can

10 years and I just marked May Day.

And we work with our partners at the Police Bureau as well. And they have learned a lot over their experience in the last five or six years. And they have really become leaders in the nation in how to allow people their freedom of speech while protecting property and the community. And so that's really where we're engaging in that space is making sure people have the ability to voice their opinions, but still make sure that the rest of the community is safe and property and people's businesses are safe. It's good to hear that, Trent.

a period where their response was lackluster, which was causing a lot of problems.

Yeah, we've gone down there during May Day and watched some of their response and how they've learned. And again, they've been leaders in the nation as they've had so much kind of operational experience that we're able to garner that and make sure that we're prepared here in Washington County.

Thank you. One of the most important things we can do now is leverage technology. We're talking about body cameras. We're talking about drones as first responder. What I love about drones as first responder is we can get a drone overhead on a scene oftentimes before we can get a deputy there or a fire apparatus there and decide whether or not They need to be driving with lights and sirens. So in real time, we can slow people down. We can say, no, there's nothing going on here. If it was an active shooter at a grocery store, we can get eyes on that really quickly and help determine what that response is going to be. And it helps us prepare a little bit more quickly for the incident and probably prepare better in what units to send. We're doing in-car video coverage. vehicle video expansion to marry with our body-worn camera systems through Axon. We're also leveraging Axon AI technology to do test reports, AI report writing. We have a plan with the DA's office in place right now to test this technology out on certain types of reports, and it's saving deputies lots and lots of time, which is really important. So if we can get them turned around as quickly as possible and and get them, you know, mission ready more quickly. We have the opportunity to save lots and lots of time and maximize efficiency.

I've had a couple of citizens reach out to me about the license plate reader stuff. Are these the flock cameras? Are these the not AI powered ones that are just seeing, hey, they're speeding. Here's a picture of their license plate versus we're capturing everybody every time and clothing they're wearing and all of the other stuff.

So there's a lot of misinformation out there. I understand. I get it all the time. Yeah. So I'm going to kind of give you a genes analogy. There's Levi's, there's Calvin Klein, there's Polo. All of them do exactly the same thing. Same is true with license plate reader technology. So when you're talking about automated license plate technology, they are all doing basically the same thing. They are capturing an image of a vehicle on the license plate. And there is AI technology that's reading that license plate and feeding it up into the cloud stream. And then whatever algorithm that's using to pull whatever data is requested by that algorithm, it's then available in real time for the officer. That could be an Axon camera, it could be a Motorola camera, it could be a Flock camera. Flock's just in the news because of, well, I think it's somewhat self-inflicted, some of the government contracts that they had, but it's no different than any of the other. Well, part of it is their technology failed to protect data.

Yeah, the data protection, the data retention policies are bad, plus the, you know, calling certain groups of people terrorists, you know, different things are all worrisome. And, you know, part of me is just saying, is that something that we need, you know, to be capturing and maintaining that level of database, even when or the sharing of it, right? I want to stop crying. As a citizen of Sherwood and as a leader in Sherwood, it's important that I, I'll even expand that to Washington County, right? And we can share it amongst ourselves as soon as we start sharing with this group and this group. And, you know, all of a sudden it's like, well, how do we know who has access to that? And so that's where I have real concerns over. And so anyway.

And those are great questions. If I had an hour, I could explain a little.

I know. I'm moving on. I can follow up questions. So saying we leverage license break reader technology, how, when, where?

So I'll give you an example. We had an Amber Alert that came out in last fall, and our detectives put the license plate out, information out, basically in the Amber Alert. Washington State Patrol has the LPR, and they actually have flock cameras. They were able to get a hit on the vehicle, the suspect vehicle, up on a rural highway up in Washington. They were able to get that information to Washington State Patrol, Washington State Patrol. Is that because...

After the alert went out, they started looking for that license plate or they had already pre-stored all the license plates that went by every camera?

Yeah, after the alert went out, they must have fed that information up into their system. HOTLIST WHERE IF YOU HAVE A PLOT, IF YOU'RE A PLOT AGENCY, YOU CAN ENTER THAT INFORMATION INTO THE HOTLIST AND IT WILL FLAG THAT LICENSE BLADE. SO IF IT'S AN AMBER ALERT, THOSE CAMERAS WILL FEED THAT INFORMATION REAL TIME TO WHOEVER'S IN THE AREA SAYING THIS IS WHERE THIS LICENSE BLADE WAS SEEN. SO THEY WERE ABLE TO GET THAT VEHICLE AFTER A SHORT PERSUIT STOPPED AND GET THE CHILD INTO PROTECTIVE CUSTODY AND ARREST THE ADULTS, THE NON-CUSTODIAL ADULTS IN THAT SITUATION. So that's what I mean by leverage. Yeah, I don't think you answered my question. That's what I mean by when I say leverage.

Yeah, but is the camera, the license reader cameras that we, do we own? Do you guys own them? Okay, so are they just actively scanning every license plate and storing it in a database? In real time, forever. Yeah, no, not forever. There's a 30-day- Well, there's no time. They're storing, like, So if 1,000 cars drive by, all 1,000 are getting stored. That's correct. In the system. And then if a hot list hit comes in on one of those 1,000, they'll say, oh, 30 minutes ago, this license place passed this camera. And 40 minutes ago, it passed that camera. That's correct. OK. So it's actively scanning everybody all the time.

Yes. If you have a LPR app on a pole, it will read just like the, and I'm not sure if the Sherwood traffic cameras had LPR technology on. does. And that's another way we leverage. I'm going to answer your question, but we do leverage because we have, with the Oregon Retail Effect grants, we get that data from those retailers. So if we have a, they report a large theft, we can get into their system and see what the license, if they had a license plate or what that is. So in that case, the retailer said, well, it's a share.

I don't know what I was dealing with, whatever it was. And I have no problem with retailers doing that and stuff like that. It's when cities do it and The problem was in Florida, where somebody said, oh, I'm doing an investigation, and they put their ex-girlfriend's license plate in, and was they were able to see, you know, and again, I understand, but we're not all under surveillance all the time. This is a policy discussion, and these

I do want to say that there is a house bill that was put out that really limits what you can do and how you can block in the state of Oregon. So I think that they put some really nice guardrails on it. I will also say that I could get into Lent's database system and look up my Whoever. I mean, you're spot on. There's going to be people who do bad things. Technology isn't necessarily the problem, but I agree with you. There's a lot of concern. But if you do that, it's locked. It's locked. Everything that you do on the computer is locked. The data is only kept for 30 days. It's purged. You guys own the data.

We own the data, yeah.

We do have flock cameras. I don't have any of them live right now. I have a license plate reader cameras. I don't have any of those live. We do are planning to use them for our retail theft missions to basically put in areas where people are coming and going. So if we get a big theft, then we get a license plate or a vehicle description and we have real-time data that we can use to put those people at the scene. Same thing with cell phones. We solve a lot of murder cases by tracking cell phones. So we are all being surveilled.

Everywhere. I know, but it's different when it's got a warrant behind it versus...

So I think a couple of things I'll just hit on really quick. It is about good policy. It's about data, making sure that the data sharing is with our local agencies and we're not It's not opened up and we own that data. And so that's part of it. And then also the accountability. Is there tracking mechanisms to who looks for that data? And then we have kind of mechanism. Those are things that we have built out. And I'll just say, we are in a world today where this is going to continue to expand. When we have somebody with a ring camera and somebody steals a package off their porch, they have an expectation that we utilize that. And so we have, we're looking at ways to connect some of that data together and it's, it's being utilized in many jurisdictions. And we got to make sure that we're having good policies, good accountability, good transparency, and making sure that we're using it for good.

And what you're saying is really, really important because we had the same thing with Ring cameras where we were probably over utilizing the availability of that and it righted itself where people were saying, I never gave permission. Well, now Ring has now has a policy that says you can give police permission to access this or not. So it's now up to the owner. So as technology evolves and people start speaking out and saying, I'm not comfortable with this or I'm comfortable with this. In Oregon, we're starting to do that.

We went through the same thing when cell phones had GPSes put in. There was abuse and policy got around to it. Now we have a good program.

All great questions. Thanks. We'll play through a couple of these really quick. You all have heard a lot about the jail woes over the last few years. And so this is really the good news portion. We are just about fully staffed. We've been fully staffed a couple of times in the jail. We've had other people move over to patrol or retire, but our staffing is looking better than it has in years. We are now fully opened, I believe, except for maybe one housing unit that's still just getting finalized, accepting all charges into the jail. And so fully open for business. So our police officers and deputies are able to take people there that need to be there. We are at maximum capacity already. And so that's what- All the wings are open? I think there might be one that's still just finishing up, but- Okay.

Did you fix the elevator? Yeah, yes, sir. I'm still trying to fix it. I would say.

It did not take you long to get to capacity.

This is great news, though. It's been a long time coming, and it has been working really hard on it. Yeah, this is great news. Recruiting efforts have really helped out, and so we're really seeing staffing getting to where we need to be, and then it's making sure that we're still able to provide great services to the folks that are in there. Some of the classes that they take to make sure that as they transition back to the community, they can hopefully break that cycle of recidivism. Next slide.

Sorry, I know we covered this a year ago. What's the, is it a number of certain length of sentence that determines whether they go to the state system or state and county?

Yes, technically it's under one year is in the county jail. Now, unless you're sentenced to two different charges, you could be consecutive. And so there have been people that have been there for multiple years. There's also times when people are coming back from the state penitentiary on appeals or other local charges that have popped up and so they can come back. And there's other people that are awaiting trial that keeps getting postponed because of appeals and things of that nature that can be in the county jail for much longer than a year. And they're not out on bond? No. Well, the ones that are in there, our goal is really to get people out of jail. It's not to keep people in jail. It's to keep the right people in jail. So it's the people that are really dangerous that are going to be dangerous to the community. Those are the ones we want to keep in there. And then the rest of the folks who want to make sure we can get them transitioned back to the community safely. As we look forward, we've done a lot of different pieces. As we've done some of the critical infrastructure, we've increased our electronic home detention program. through a grant. And so we're able to monitor folks that are getting out of custody. We're doing a lot of great things. The jail has a full-time investigation, investigating now. One of the pieces they're looking at is folks, a lot of people that have come through have been human trafficked. And working with those folks, not just to get them the support they need, but also to find out who is trafficking them and be able to push that back into the community.

Were you part of the recent bust here in Sherwood? I don't believe so. No, I don't.

I think DOG Jay led that. We may have had detectives involved to professional standards two months ago, so I don't get the updates anymore.

So as we just kind of close out on the jail piece as well, actually, we're going to talk about looking forward here. I'm sorry. Yeah, right there. So we are working on a jail expansion project right now. We have to go ahead from the county commissioners to continue to explore this. Looking out for about the next 30 years, what kind of facility we would need. We had an analysis done and it looks to really be about doubling the size of our current facility. But the jail of tomorrow would not look like the jail today. Some of the jails that we're seeing across, and ours is only 28 years old now. That's really not that old when we look at government facilities. But some of the new jails are more trauma-informed. So when folks are coming in for the first time, making sure that they're calm and able to kind of process through the system not only helps them but also helps our staff during their work. And so some of the new jails look more like a doctor's office than they do a jail, but it ultimately keeps everybody safer. So as we continue through this expansion project, we've got stakeholders from all across the county to make sure that they're able to give input as to what this would look like and we'll be out touring some different jails throughout the country to make sure that we do this right, because it's good to serve in Washington County for years to come. Next slide.

Look at the Danish jails. They're nicer than a lot of my apartments. Yeah. I don't know if we want them to be nice.

One thing we talked about public safety, local option that we will want to thank you all. I know we came out here last year and asked for support from all of our communities. And we did see that support. It just provides a lot of that, again, backbone to some of the public safety services across Washington County. When it comes to the DA's office, the jail, mental health response teams, some of our other interagency response teams, it just gives us that support to be able to provide that professional service across all of Washington County, no matter where you live. Next slide, please.

Yes, sir. I just have a in some ways just backfill those cuts, which is somewhat say we're really, it was a general fund levy. And I'm just curious, do we have any, is there any financial reporting and kind of how all that netted out post levy? Because as an overall thing, we have a lot of concerns about the county general fund contributions to programs like WCCLS and MSTEP, et cetera, are reducing and we're putting more of a burden on the different levies and mechanisms out there.

So I would say we did see increase in positions because of the levy. So whatever cuts we saw in general fund, we saw more increase in the levy. I would say most agencies across the region, it's no surprise, are having general fund constraints. And a lot of agencies have gone to levies to look to offset some of those costs. And that's the reality, I think, of where we're at in all those areas. We know that the public safety local option levy is additive to that. We know that we have another enhanced control district that is additive to that. So we do monitor those. And so where we did see some cuts in the general fund side, we saw additions in that way far offset that in the local option levy side. And I know we're looking at it. I was very supportive.

I just want to be honest with the voters about it. That's really where I'm coming from.

No, I completely appreciate that. And that's really where we're looking at too, is to make sure that we're being efficient in the general fund and the levies, because that's how we provide service to all the communities.

Thank you.

No, thank you for the question. So we'll just kind of wrap it up today. Again, wherever you live in Washington County, we at the Sheriff's Officer Review, we really work in partnership with our local police departments or other stakeholders to make sure that we keep Washington County a safe, livable community all across the region. And then a lot of those professional services, it doesn't matter where you live, we're able to keep that continuity of service with mental health response, tactical response, crash response, and investigations to make sure we all are able to provide that. Next slide. And with that, We had a lot there and we appreciate you guys taking a little extra time with us tonight, but if there's any questions, we'd be happy to answer. Any questions?

answering them along the way.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Well, I just want to say thank you. You guys do an amazing job. We appreciate the partnership. I don't think people realize how special that is in Oregon and Washington County. You go on the East Coast and they'll have two different agencies that overlap with their own training programs and different standards. It's kind of crazy, but here we do a great job, especially when we have, I'm not saying it's fun to watch, but it's amazing to watch when we have like a major response and how quickly all these technologies like that. So we appreciate all you do. And thank you.

Thank you. And it is a partnership. None of us can do it alone. So we appreciate that. Thank you. All right. We'll take a quick five minutes to reset.

Yes, we do.

The right example.

All right, welcome back. We just reset. We have our second item on our work session at the end of time, which is the old town site D delta feasibility study. And we have Eric Rutledge here.

Thanks, Mayor. So happy to be here tonight. This is the first implementation study of our old town strategic. So we're glad to bring it to you. If you recall, it's been at least six months ago or so we were looking at um all of the city owned properties in anticipation of implementing old town the feedback we got from council at that time was site d which is that we're talking about tonight um and site a which is the at the corner of third and pine that the old school house site so the direction we received was move on those two first um And so we'll bring in Site D to you tonight. We have our consultant here for this study. We have a contract with First 40 Feet. They were also the consultant on the Old Town Strategic Land. So happy to have them. Jason. I know. And I will keep coming back. So we have Jason Graff with First 40 Feet and Ramin Rezbangi with First 40 Feet. So I'm just going to turn it over to them and look at the presentation.

Yeah, really excited to be here. It always is. We spent a lot of time working on that strategic plan. And so moving ahead on Site D is really an awesome moment. I think for all of us, we know how important this site is on Pine Street, where it sits in proximity to Cannery Square and the Arts Center. This is going to be like a beacon of light at the end of the street, just like the other Anchor Project. As you enter Old Town is also going to have an opportunity to really kind of create those bookends, I think, on both ends of Pine Street. But this one, I think, is really perennial, preeminent. It's super exciting. So the goal here is to really evolve that pad site into a building in a form that can create that special moment when physically it should offer that. And then internally, how it functions as an opportunity for this city-owned asset to generate income that can help support the art center, create that active node that is so important across Henry Square. So people are circulating in and out of that public amenity and that building are all working together. Its relationship to railroad is really important as well as the art center. So that's what we're here to explore. And our first step here is really just to get you all comfortable with... how we're going to think about putting together the initial program and then kind of building those walls around it and looking at the form of that building and how it's going to sit in relation to the site. Those are important too, but those will come after we sort of determine what can fit in that space and what would be like as a really good at this location in Old Town. We have Chris Zahas, who is our economist from the work on the strategic plan. He does a lot of work with developers and understanding what What is sort of the optimal return on investment given a program that you can have? What are the achievable rents? What are ways to market the site to a variety of different uses? Ramin is our architect. He's from Anchor Moise and Architects, worked on a lot of projects like this. And so he's going to really help guide us through sort of, okay, here's the ideas, but this is how we assemble it in a building. Chris will help us try to figure out the financing around that and how it can be operable and of course kristin and city staff have the tough job of like keeping the lights on keeping people in order so we want to try and get the right form because it has to look amazing to canary square it has to be complementary with the arts and at the same time create that revenue that is important to support kind of everything around it um the art center already has you have a retail component there already so sort of understanding how that works is already kind of embedded in your DNA a little bit. And part of this is that thinking about what that pad site would offer. What should we be striving for in that space? Is it retail? Is it food and beverage? Is it something sort of in between? So that's generally kind of what we're looking at. We want to get your feedback because you all have an impression and thoughts about the value of this site.

Is it more classroom space for the art center?

Something to consider, yeah. So I think we need to get a good sense from you all about the direction to move forward. We don't want to come back with you know, a couple of sour eggs and a rotten tomato. So it's going to help that we hear from you all tonight. So part of that is just giving us your thoughts and impressions. So it's about direction here. We'll get into the design. It's going to evolve. We've got about six months to do this, five to six months. So, you know, hopefully that sounds like kind of a fast timeframe. We've met with staff just initially, like, their capacity and what they see in terms of the potential for the building. But this is an opportunity to really hear from you all. The decision makers are ultimately going to decide. But we have this point of contact with you. You've seen their July in that green bar. We'll come back again for a second iteration once we've kind of taken the program and started to put walls around it to share that with you. And then ultimately look at what kind of the financing and return on investment. Chris's work is optimal. So how do you think about that? We have a building, we're going to recruit this type of tenant because we think this is our best opportunity for success. So three points of connection with you. Yes, Mayor.

If I'm jumping ahead, just stop me. But on the financing piece, when you look at that and the feasibility, because there's a, ideally there's a revenue component. Yeah, we hope so. Are you looking at Not just that building, but like how would it complement the Arts Center like Kim just mentioned more classroom space and meeting space could bring smaller conventions to the city, those types of things. Is that going to be part of that calculus?

It could be. It depends on, yeah, I mean there's a couple of different ways to look at it. One could be to look at it from sort of what's marketable in downtown. If it isn't fully arts, I mean, it could, let's say it's another retail space or it's more around food and beverage or sort of kind of a food hall concept. You're going to look at a few ideas that we might explore, but I think the other layer then is, is it going to be complimentary and sort of additional space for the arts center? So I think we need to, we need to determine that pretty early because I think that's going to be an important direction. As we lean into what the revenue generating side of it is, that's the important consideration. It doesn't mean you can't generate revenue from having a community building. um but you know some of the attributes criteria we're looking at are activation over extended period of time during the day does it complement well with the other businesses in old town as well as the art center so i think as we establish the criteria and we start measuring the different programs to that that might help us kind of winnow in on what what our ultimate target is i don't think we want to go too far not quite knowing but i think we can do a lot in terms of Understand the form of the building and how it's going to relate to its surroundings. That's a good part of the early discussion, even if it's a building. I mean, yeah, yeah, it's because.

Well, I'll let you go through. No, no, finish your thought, please. I'm, I'm here to hear. If I, again, if I'm getting ahead, let me know, because. I know one of the things I've talked to staff a lot about this. I look at that whole area as kind of an ecosystem. And when you think of all the events we do, like tree lighting ceremony and Robin Hood Festival and all that, how all that plays together. And the Art Center is a huge part of that. We have a lot of events that are looking at moving out of Sherwood because we don't have enough capacity in there. And I think there's also a lot of events we could draw into Sherwood. Like the one off the top of my head is it would be perfect could hold their annual conference here, right? So I'm just thinking, I just want to make sure we kind of have that broader hat on to thinking about how everything works together. And as the city grows, all those events are going to get bigger downtown. So we want to make sure we have space.

I guess that's where you weigh it, because we do want it to be a revenue generator to help continue to offset the brand closer to whole, like, thinking about, okay, if it was more classroom space, like on average, would it bring fine conventions here, and what would that bring versus a long-time tenant in a restaurant or retail?

That's the calculus. Yeah, absolutely. And we also talked at one point about expanding the art center out the back as a different alternative. Okay. Well, and just how the whole area works, if you expand it, parking, there's a lot of... Or if you get, you know, if we do get a boutique hotel, they may have conference rooms, right? Or they may have a conference room that would allow for something like that, right?

I just want to make sure we don't do anything that makes it harder to achieve those goals, one, and then ideally we're pushing towards some of those goals.

Some of the issue is that site's not that large. It has sort of finite capacity to deliver on events or retail or on average. And so, yeah, that's kind of our job to say, okay, once we have this form here, this is what we think we can get out of it. open up a big space it'd be this much cut into three classrooms or two classrooms it's this much maybe there's opportunities for a half level of mezzanine to allow for some things that work ancillary to the ground floor so we want to look at that too and we'll touch on a little bit of that right now this is this is good to hear what what's in your head yeah and i'll throw more and just kind of going down a different path there and i'll just spitball in here but it would also be nice to have

space so it'd be nice to have an outdoor space that is somewhat protected from the weather so you know a little garage doors yeah yeah great science yeah there's you know how do we how do we make it a multi-use space that can be used more more throughout this Robin Hood Plaza offer some of that or

it's not really waterproof that's not bait proof yeah that's true that's not that's not enough of a overhead i mean it's also structured his primary purpose is still parking yeah unless you wanted to offload the parking somewhere else and make it as a more reusable as a non-parking place it's truly it's really only a few times a year that you're taking parking out of theirs, right? Yeah.

When we're throwing out ideas and I'll send you my, I have a whole spreadsheet with 15 different places I found in Oregon and a bunch I found internationally or nationally that were essentially co-ops that have 10 by 10 booths in a covered area with the garage doors. And they, you know, there's, People doing crafts. There's bakers. There's, you know, all of these different, you know, fresh vegetables stand kind of a thing. And it's manned by the members of the co-op. Some, I was surprised, have been going for 75 years. You know, they're the same, you know. Anyway. Because to me, that achieves one of the goals of Old Town is getting more discoverability and more feet downtown of people saying, oh, I wonder what's in those tench micro shops kind of thing. And it also provides an incubator of, oh, we've got a place where you can try your little shop. And if it takes off, great, move to one of our other places. locations in Old Town and get your own shop kind of a funny person you know but you don't have to have a huge rent and all the improvements and everything else that you would with a normal thing so anyway that now it's all going to link to the examples I saw because they I've been to some Spokane and Bend and Eugene and Salem and they're always fun yeah are you And that's a great.

Oh, sure. Happy to. Yeah. Yeah. I was curious, curious from the rest of you all when you hear this, is it, does that resonate with you?

I kind of need to see it.

Cause I know I can't.

Yeah. Some of them, but I didn't want to turn in my second one off. I'm like, Oh, that's going to kill a tree.

It is an intriguing concept. Yeah. It could be an extension of the entire market. Right.

Yeah.

Where you'd say. Yeah. I can also tell you- He has to make money.

He has to generate- And we've got three circles here to try and connect these dots.

And then there's a circle that we don't want. And that's more professional services lawyers. Absolutely. That will drop down into the- Willy Wonka.

Let businesses feed off each other. Let events faces feed off each other. Great energy.

Do you have any thoughts?

No, I was going to say revenue and something that's going to drive people downtown. I like the idea about the incubator thing. That's a fascinating concept for me. McMinnville had something similar and it never really took off the way that it could have. So it would have to be done carefully if we did something like that.

I'm intrigued by that idea as well. I'm wondering if Site A might be a better location for that space. You could also combine it with other things. We'd also have a bigger space. As far as psyche goes, I don't have strong, I'm kind of in, to see what everyone else is throwing out there, I'm seeing what you guys are throwing out there. I have a lot of, we can do that, do this, do this. But I'm not strongly married to anything right now. So I'm just kind of, I'm gathering input right now.

But it helps that you're establishing criteria which allow us to sort of look at a variety of different things and we can come out and sort of toss it. Where does revenue sit on the scale? Where does supporting events sit on the scale? Where does, you know, more holistic activation of... To me, the revenue question is directly related to

If we're doing, you know, a covered area with some seated tables and maybe one shop and we spend, you know, 500 grand on it or something. But there, you know, some of the ones that I did see...

Some of the ones that I saw, and I just sent the document to Craig, but they were these small 10 by 10 booths, but they had an anchor tenant, right? They had a coffee shop or they had a, you know, a micro restaurant or something. And so it could be a mix of both where you say, hey, you know, we want to be able to get food 18 hours a day or whatever it is, but we also want some of these other flexible ones that are a little bit less expensive to get into. Yeah.

Indoor. It's no longer seasonal. That was the idea of, you know, at Disney, when you get off the ride, you have to go through the gift shop. Yeah, exactly. It's perfect.

Like, put, like, brain leaves on the street side and the parking lot side of that plaza, right? So, you know, obviously, you have a couple openings in them, but you kind of create a more funnel effect. You can set tables along them, right? So, it's like an outdoor eating area, but, you know, so you... It's not just like you can walk in or out from anywhere that's 150 feet, right? There's defined openings.

Exactly. Yeah. Another thing that this allows instead of like one specific tenant or one restaurant, you could potentially rent it out or have events here. There's one in downtown Portland called The Flock, which is in the lower right hand corner here. And they have wine tasting events or they had like a Chinese culinary festival in the whole thing. So that's pretty interesting, too. You could, you know,

set it up so that you could have other restaurants.

They took like four tables and specifically brought dinner out to this, this group there. And, you know, folks kind of mingled around, they sort of self leased the space so that people didn't show up with their burger or their diet food and sat down.

The other thing is that you could potentially have, like, when somebody decides they don't want to be in operation all day long, maybe one of the other tenants does, or three or four of the other tenants do, or they're at, you know, alternative times. So you hopefully don't have the whole thing shut down at certain parts of the day, if that makes sense. So next one. And this one... was the idea here was some kind of combination of retail, like an art-focused retail. And obviously, you can't necessarily determine what the... who the tenants are, but idea being, it could, you know, start to expand on the arts district. Um, you have, um, the art center, you have the library, it could be a bookstore with a small coffee shop in it or a florist or something, um, and have some kind of micro tenants, um, in there similar maybe to what you're talking about, about the.

Yeah. But I am curious to say, when you said if we own it, why can't we determine who the real,

You can, but you just might not get somebody.

We're only getting arts retailers here. At some level. See who's really excited about it. See who brings you the best offer, the best idea.

I know that at one point, the Shore Bookstore was looking for a place. They wanted a little singer-songwriter performance space that would not really be appropriate for the Arts Center, but A small patio where you could sit 15 people would be perfect.

But yeah, you know, so I'm thinking like, if the this building, if you had the street side was all roll up doors, and the backside of the parking lot, you kind of had these 10 foot or whatever 15 foot wide stalls right maybe 15 by 15 or whatever they're kind of pushed to the back you have seven or eight of those and then you have this walkway along the doors and you have some tables and stuff in there right and then those however many of those shops fit in there maybe seven or eight or whatever you know like they can rotate in and out make some might be food some might be arts it might be books or they could be a whole variety of things you know just kind of stroll from one end of the building to the other discoverability yeah yeah

And you're either walking down the sidewalk, or like you said, it's permeable enough, you just go inside and see what's happening.

I kind of like the idea that you're walking down inside, too. Sure, yeah. Nine months of the year, the doors are closed, and you're strolling, and you enter at one end, and you leave at the other. Exactly. It's still bringing you in.

Attractive place. It's a little chilly out.

And then in nice weather, the doors will open, and it becomes much more comfortable.

That's kind of how these food halls or public markets, pie mis-markets.

It's kind of like Pike Place. Smaller scale. Yeah.

Nice levels. But you're right. It's got that energy.

Yeah. Even the ones with the big garage doors, I would have those like big heaters or whatever. And so even in No, our tree lighting ceremony is like, oh, we could have hot chocolate in there.

Let's go get some gourmet hot chocolate. Certainly extend the openness quite a bit longer. There'll still be the rain days. Oh, yeah. We're in Oregon. 20 degree weather.

You mentioned it briefly, I don't want to amplify it, but extending it all and connecting it to the current art center is then that current retail space becomes an anchor in there and funneling people through there to get into the art center, moving the billboard for the center out on the street. But yeah, we get more space.

Even if the building itself didn't go all the way to the art center, which it could go much further than just the gravel lot. But the overhead, like an overhead and overhang, right? So where the building would end, it would still be covered walkway all the way to the entrance of the art center.

I'm just amplifying on this idea of a convertible space that works well in the wintertime. We'd have a lot of interest.

So you're giving up on the, it needs to look like a train station, I guess?

The whole building needs to look like a train.

Well, I come back to that. However you want to balance it, we can explore that once we've got it.

You can have one facade that faces the rails look like a train and then it kind of extends out the back, right?

We've heard about maybe bringing a caboose car and all kinds of stuff.

I mean, Sherwood was originally platted because the train came through. That is what started the city.

That's not that unique. That's pretty much every city. That doesn't have a river, anyway.

No, it's not, but it is part of our... We don't want triangle roofs, is what we're saying. If you go into the Spaghetti Factory, they have some big frame pictures of downtown Sherwood, and there's one of them at the train station in there.

Yeah, I think... one thing, uh, you know, that we have heard and that we, we know that the, the existing restaurant tenant has, you know, it's not always doing super well and filled and know that there, it does have, um, trouble getting, getting people down there. But I think, and that's one of the reasons we've been looking at this activation, right. Creating this whole, the end of pine street as a, end of it is an anchor with Canary Square. And if we can align that with activity, um, then it really will become a destination for the community. There'll be a lot more, you can generate a lot more activity. And I think whatever we do here, um, it will improve, you know, the performance of, of that retail space too, or that, that restaurant space. But we're kind of imagining the, you know, um, critical mass of daily activity here and creating that subplaza kind of in front of the art center. You can imagine going to dinner at the brewery and then coming over and grabbing dessert or something and a bunch of people hanging out out there at tables and chairs or some kind of retail environment that does something similar. Pretty exciting. Next, this was talking about basically a second story or mezzanine, a partial second story that could be used as some kind of rentable studio space or something that is a little bit more connected directly to the art center. not operated by the art center necessarily. It could be, but just providing a more permanent space for local artists or somebody who wants to make pottery or actually set up a studio that you can't really do at the art center because it's more classroom spaces and transient kind of function art. So you could have someone that does... um, you know, specific kinds of art, um, and does, uh, summer, um, camps for kids or whatever it might be. Um, and then that could, you know, they could sell goods downstairs at the retail or, um, you could, you know, it could be, you know, related to the food function also. So that gives you a little bit more flexibility and more, um, program diversity. Or it could be student classroom.

Or it could be some of both. It could be we have 10 rooms and however they fill up, they fill up. If they don't fill up, they're available for

As long as there's an elevator up to it because the art center upstairs is small. You can't use it. It's not ADA.

Yeah, you need access, so some kind of lift up to the top. And it could also be expansion of whatever the program is downstairs if it's very successful or you needed extra seating for restaurants or there was desire for more retail space.

The idea of some of the economic trends going on in the U.S., innovation hubs, that kind of thing to kind of cater to that world, especially with the type of employers we're trying to drive into Sherwood as a thought too for that second sprint.

I think the key is whatever we do over there, we're not gonna know necessarily exactly, right? So it's gotta be designed to be somewhat flexible And even not just when it opens, but maybe trends change five, 10, 20 years down the road, right? So spaces that are- Yeah. Yeah. And if that- Movable to whatever the current uses.

Innovation hub today, pottery studio tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because we're on the second pottery studio.

Exactly. This could work- 25 years ago. I didn't mean to set you up there. And now we've got another one. That one was a long time ago, and now another one. Trends.

HAB-Masyn Moyer- Danny look like you're going to say.

HAB-Daniel Teodoru, Just along those lines, the food Hall, the infrastructure for that is very specific to food and so we lose some flexibility and talked about by leaning more into that instead of these flexible spaces and so.

HAB-Danny Teodoru, leading away from the food all because, for that reason, so that's flexible and it also it feels like it's kind of a self cannibalizing. other downtown restaurant. I don't feel like there's a shortage, necessarily.

It could still.

Like, you could have a donut shop in there.

Yeah, without the hood. You could have.

Yeah, more of that. Like, ancillary food, not meals, right?

Yeah. There's a Sherwood resident who has a bakery in a shed on her... Yeah, she can set up shop in there and sell it. So, instead of... Unincorporated. It's the county's problem.

Is there any innovation going on across the country in terms of making those spaces flexible? Like today it could be a kitchen with hoods and tomorrow it could be a bookstore. I mean, is there any...

I mean, I think the kitchen with hoods, that's a stretch because that's just an additional question. You don't need the bear. But symposiums are a great example. It's an old house. They serve paninis. They're able to produce enough variety in a space that doesn't require major investment in the hood. or other types of infrastructure. I think there's definitely a sweet spot of being able to create these kind of smaller spaces that have enough. It's at least got a sink.

It's got enough dollars that they can plug into.

Well, it might even be one of those things where, you know, like Fat Milo's put in a grab-and-go counter kind of a thing. And so we may go to this tenant and say, hey, if we connect this and we start getting more walk-by traffic, instead of doing sit-down meals, do the sit-down meals you're already doing, but have some, you know, corn dogs middle of the day for the kids that are playing across the street, you know what I mean? Upscaled pretzels or whatever goes with your theme, but they can be grab and go versus sit down and so that you can get a different kind of, but I like, when I'm with Doug, I feel like if we had a tenant, an anchor tenant, then the other ones would be more flexible if they weren't restaurants. We already have that. Yeah. No, I know. That's the thing.

On railroad and at the art center.

Yeah.

I don't think we need a second anchor tent. It may not be as critical.

When he says it's going to draw people down to Old Town to also support our already existing.

Oh yeah, but I feel like it's one of those things where it's like, great, let's go have a meal and then, you know what, we've already tried all these desserts, let's go see, let's go to the ice cream shop because they've got crazy ice cream flavors. You know what I mean?

Or you're walking through this all 10 vendors because You know, every month there's a different set of vendors in there, maybe, or someone will have changed outs here. Yeah. And then see what's down there. Oh, hey, you know, let's go over and grab a beer or a pizza or whatever. So it works both ways. Yeah, 100%.

I want to do a quick time check. Yeah. And then it's left.

So let me hear you. This, I think, is landing on just about the last page. We've kind of established the criteria there on the left, and we've got sort of three things. two sort of spaces to look at, and then the mezzanine is an additional layer that we could potentially add to those.

But then... We've basically gone through those pluses, you know, the positives for each of those already. We kind of talked through... One thing I just did want to address, though, you asked, you know, are there people using or doing restaurant spaces in innovative ways or shared, you know, kitchen spaces in innovative ways. One thing you mentioned at the beginning was... could it make sense to move the restaurant tenant from the art center as, you know, currently into this space, then you'd have a kitchen space for the art center, which could be really great. But one of the things I was kind of mention is that if there was you know maybe even a single singular hood something that people do sometimes or you know some of these food halls do is do a shared kitchen so you could have you know a tenant that utilizes that hood but it's also part of the facility like if you want to have an event there or something that you have a kitchen that you can cook in also and it's not necessarily dedicated to one tenant or two tenants could use it for different things you'll cook your stuff at

at nine in the morning and I'll come in at 11.

Or in the morning, yeah, like a baker, you're in there getting it ready. Yeah, you share it, but then you could use it also supplementary to the art center or just city in general. I mean, somebody else could rent out that space and have an event in there or something. So this is another thought.

We should get to these questions. Yeah, I think that, yeah, is anything missing on the list? Are there other programmatic ideas? I think we've gone through quite a few here which are really helpful.

The other one would be the high school entrepreneurial program, maybe partnering with them. Another, that would get a different audience potentially.

And that would fit in with the existing ideas we've been talking about. Right, yeah. We dedicate one space to that kind of partnership. Partnering with the chamber.

Chamber on the, they have that really leaning into the wine industry. There was a small space in there that was the wine industry. What's that group called? The Wine Alliance. They're really looking at how to promote the wine industry. Over by me, there's the OH. Over by me, there's our table co-op.

And they're a bunch of farmers that all have vegetables that come up at different time of the year. And, you know, they said, hey, we would love to have a place closer in town. We just can't afford it. And so, again, getting a spot that is low, you know, low barrier to entry, that would be fresh vegetables. I used to love it when we had fresh vegetables.

It'll be on the corner right there at the gas station.

But it's very true. I missed the cherry fruit. So for me personally, I would like to see what it looks like from the street to have a lock. Because right now it's hard to envision. It feels like a double story would feel imposing, but it may not once it all gets built out. And so I need to be able to visualize.

At some point we said we thought we wouldn't want two stories because we don't want to block the art.

That's not one story. I know, but if it's connected, it's complete. If it's connected and you move the sign out and it blocks it anyway. I know, but that's the thing is that I feel like if you go two stories and you've already got a big art center, but you move the sign out, it just looks like a bigger art. Yeah, it's got to be complimentary so that it looks like art.

Can you come back to the picture of the mezzanine? Because I actually love that picture. I love the fact that it feels very open, all the light, the natural light coming out. I love that look at the half mezzanine. The one on the right? Yeah, the far right. Yeah, I love that. Especially if there's little... I would look at that and go like, man, that's exactly what I want our thing to look like almost, right? Like it's almost spot on.

Especially in addition to studios, I would love to see little seating areas, right? That's one of the things that's so awesome. I just need somewhere to sit and talk with somebody for a little bit. So let's go get a drink. We'll go upstairs and chat. That's where I'm thinking like,

you know, this is the street side, so there's all your roll-up doors over here, and then you've got all your different spaces over here, and then this is this really wide area, and now you've got tables in it, but it's also like a wide walkway.

Brick pathway. We'll do it.

All right, do you have any more questions? I feel really excited, and it's a good conversation. I think we have enough, and we'll be developing Gareth J. On the floor plate and then kind of assembling the different programs in that single week. Gareth J. It sort of to test that how much space would be forever proceeding or booths or whatever. Gareth J.

When and how do we get to the idea of like market viability like these are all great. Gareth J. Nobody, nobody runs a booth right.

Gareth J. It was honest. Right there. I mean, the first part is like, let's figure out the capacity of the site. But yes, exactly. What can we, what can we back in there. And then Chris is going to do that kind of the hard work of going okay as we look at the say three different central program things. What What is the market for that? What can we get for rents for that type of space? So he'll do some of the due diligence to see how different spaces might be comparable, how well they perform. And we can measure sort of cost of the buildings, what we think the return is from the potential tenants that we get in here. And I can probably decision about how much we want to invest in the building or not. Maybe rooms are we eligible for. Yeah. And then funding things to be another source of like, what should we be targeting? Is this fine?

Maybe when we first built it, the mezzanine layer is just a shell. Build it out later, right?

Absolutely could work that way. Yeah.

You add on over time.

I was just going to ask for a little bit of elaboration on the Wine Alliance thing that you brought up. Oh, okay. And so the intent there was, you know, it could be like a like a wine bar or something like a wine.

Yeah. I mean, the Wine Alliance is Sherwood specific wineries that are trying to work together to network and draw people to each of their wineries that they go. And one of them actually deposed on any Facebook. That's two weeks ago. So, yeah, just working together. Like if somebody's at my winery and, you know, a lot of times you go wine tasting, you go to two or three in a day and somebody say, I'm looking for a big bowl of bread and that winery can say, oh, you'll want to go here then. Or you'll want to go so that they're, they're not in competition with each other. They are collaborative with each other. And so that's kind of.

It'd be like, they could be in a booth, like giving out information or have tastings there.

They're at each of their wineries. They may have.

In this location where you're proposing, maybe.

Oh, I don't know. Somebody else.

I just want to talk to them about it because we've had a small, so we have a lot of small wineries and they'll open a tasting room that are closed. You know, or they won't allow, but if there was a space where three or four of them could all be in there.

Yeah.

And frankly, if they did have brochures that said, Hey, if you want to make a weekend of it, here you go.

And that's kind of fair. Yeah. You know, they're talking about signage.

All right. So we're just running a little bit over here. But thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks, everybody. Five minutes. We'll start. Thank you.