Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

Christina, are we good? I want to call the meeting to order at 7:30. Roll call. William Johnston here. Thomas Graphanino here. Link Colligan here. Lisa Kler here. Phil Dioro is here. Also present. We have Tim Hill, the CBA attorney. Uh, first order of business is to review and approve the March 25th, 2026 minute. Uh, 2026 minutes. Um, may I have a motion to approve? I'll make a motion. I'll second. All in favor? I. All right. We have two hearings tonight. The first is 89 North Ferry Road, McGill. Do we have someone here to present? Oh, can we open? Oh, sorry. Sorry, Christine. I apologize.

A hearing on the application of Charles McIll, owner of A89 Northbury North Road, Charles Island in New York, which located at zone C, and is more specifically described on the suffer county tax 700-14-4-19. The applicant wishes to construct the actary dwelling unit and the variances uh for relief from town code section 1337.

Good evening. Matt Sherman, Sherman Engineering Consulting. I'm here on behalf of the property owner, Mr. McIll. Um this is a application for an accessory dwelling unit. Um it's at 89 North Ferry Road. The application is because the lot size is less than the minimum required for the zone. Um the property is the property is 22,139 square ft by town code. You need to have uh 30,000 square ft 75% of the minimum lot size for the zone. So, we're at 74% of what the required lot size is. The house, the property currently has a three-bedroom, one-story house that's up by the road. It's about 612 square ft. And what we're proposing is a two-bedroom accessory dwelling unit in the rear of the property. The accessory dwelling unit is going to be a total of 12 uh 1,269 ft. Part of it's going to be a garage. It's a first floor bedroom and then a second floor kitchen, dining room, living room area and bedroom. Um the uh uh the property is part of the ADU plus1 grant program and once we get if we get approval from the CBA, it will be going to the health department for a permit to put in an IIA septic system that would serve both buildings on site. So the existing conventional septic system would be coming off and a new IA system would be going in. And that's the the IIA system something that would be required.

Yeah, that' be required. Absolutely. Yep. By both county code and town code. All I got. Got any questions for me? I'd be more than happy to answer. Otherwise, I'm looking at the uh the driveway. Yeah. And it seems to sneak really close behind the the the shed that's moved. Is that uh I don't I I don't know if that's a a safety issue or you know if the if the sheds could be relocated somewhere else on the property or are they somehow used for the pool equipment or I mean I see pool equipment over there on the other side.

Yeah, pool equipment on the opposite side. We relocated the sheds to those locations. Um, if the board's not comfortable with that, we've got about 10 ft there because of the sideyard line. If the board's not comfortable with that and they want us to move the sheds, you know, further to the uh to the north, so between the pool and the house or further to the south, between the pool and the accessory building, we can see about doing that. That's I I it just seems like it's very tight. It It's tight. It's 10 ft. So, that is pretty tight. And and it seems like there's a lot of other places to put that. Yeah. I think we also want to make sure that, you know, emergency vehicles can get back to the cottage if necessary.

Yeah, good point. Yeah. So, we could certainly move that shed, you know, if you want us to make sure that it's 15 ft away from the property line so you've got more than enough room for a driveway, that's that's not a problem at all. Okay. Um, anyone else have any other questions?

Um, can you talk to me a little bit, Matt, about the um the retaining wall and the height of that? Um yeah, it's let's see as you come on the the come down the site, excuse me, along the side property line where that front that ground floor entrance is, the retaining wall steps up a couple of different steps. Um and as you're coming up from the uh uh roadside or from the the 114 side of the property, that's where it's a grade and it's on page C2. It should be the last page in your drawings. This guy. Yeah. Oh, there it is. Sorry.

Yes. So, this is the retaining wall. It comes up that 3 ft steps up to six feet and then up to 8 ft. Okay. So, it's really only the the 8 ft part is actually only what you know this distance. I don't I can get that for you. I don't know it off the top of my head, don't I? Okay. It's about 4 ft. Okay. You know, I'd have to confirm that. Yeah. No, that's helpful.

And basically what it does is it tucks that walkway in. So at grade on the outside, your grade is coming right up to the top or just below the top of that retaining wall. And then that gives you that smooth walkway in. And you can also have the egress window on that back side. So you've got the entrance door with that egress window for that bedroom on the back side. And does does it have to reach 8 ft high? Right. Um to meet the grade that's back there now. It does. But if I could see if we could drop that grade down a little bit um and make it a couple more steps coming out of that rear deck off the backside, we could kind of feather a little bit. I'd love to see it get down to six feet if that was possible.

You won't need Right. I could do that. Then that really wouldn't need it. Yeah. Yeah. I could do that cuz then what I could do is is feather that grade up and just put another stair or two coming out of the decks. Yeah. So, as long as it doesn't interfere with the integrity of what it's supposed to be doing something it's doing it's it's basically a self-supporting thing. It's supporting the earth on the outside of it. So, if we move that earth down a little bit, then we can bring the wall down with it. Okay. And as it comes back around to the back of that building, we'll just have to put a little turn on it. That's that's not a big deal. And that's well outside of the setback. Okay.

So, um, if we're close to hearing that, I'd like to make sure that we get that stuff, whatever the written correspondence a week before the work session. Oh, yeah, that's not a problem. Anyone else have anything? Just looking at the punch, you have anything? No, I have no questions. Anyone in the audience like to weigh in on this application?

Open to correspondent. That's what we will do. area. Um, anyone else have any commentary? Anybody out in Zoomland? Any hands up there, Christina?

Good evening. Good evening, uh, members of the ZBA. My concern on this application is that clearance for safety in the driveway to get back to the accessory building. I mean, I looked at the plans myself and it shows that there's only an 11.8 ft clearance from the house to the property line. And I it just doesn't seem like that's wide enough for a fire truck to get back there. And and the fact that this building is going to be backed up to Sum's Woods that really hasn't been cleared of debris or any kind, it does concern me in that regard. And then the other thing that really kind of I guess I guess it's okay, but it seems very strange that the house is 600 square feet and this accessory building is going to be twice that size. I realize that half of the accessory is going to be a garage, but an accessory structure should be accessory to a primary structure that's larger than itself. And I just I I I don't know how the board feels about that. I don't know if you've ever talked about it, but that's those are my two main concerns on this application. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Anyone else? Brand step up.

I'm Brian, Dr. Johnson, um chair of the community housing board. I just want to uh support this application as part of um the ADU plus one program in that it's furthering the town's mission of uh creating uh community. Thank you. Anyone else? Any other hands up out there in Zoom land? Christina? No. No. Right. Um can I get a motion to close the hearing? Make a motion.

I'll second and we'll leave it open for written correspondence until uh May 13th. Right. And we'll have a work session on May 20th. So, so we have a motion. Second. All in favor? I I Okay, next up we have the Collan application. Lynn is recusing herself here. Disclose the reason. Sorry. For the minutes. I'm sorry. Disclose the reason. Oh, I'm the applicant.

Thank you. We'll just wait for just a minute for lunch to leave. on the application of link hous of 9 south road chro New York which is located in zone a neutral overlay district and is more specifically described on the suffer context map at 700-50-4-136 the applicant wishes to convert an existing basement to a one-bedroom dwelling unit and it's seeking variances for relief from town code section 33-17A 1D and 133-12F uh 12. The correspondent uh opposing the application is received from Steven Jacob 77 Gardens Bay Drive, David Lopez 64 Gardens Bay Drive, Emmeris 6 Ram Island Drive. Uh the correspondence in support of the application was received from James 2 11 South Red Road uh Santiago Campar 15B South Card Red Road and Clark 42 Compton Road when San Paulo 15 South Card Road.

Thank you Christina. Um, someone here to present

Sherman Sherman Engineering Consulting. I'm here on behalf of Miss Colligan. This is going to be a little bit more involved than the last. The uh, as Christina mentioned, this is a project. It's a um, another accessory apartment. It's a dwelling unit. This is for Prince's property on South Parkway Road. The reason we're here for two variances are two uh two different issues. A uh area variance for lot size. It's a very small lot in double A zone and then also a use variance because it's also in the nearshore overlay district. Um I'm going to go through some different things. I know that I've read some of the correspondence from the people who had uh raised some objections to this. Some of the objections I find are uh are valid. A lot of them, I think, are are they're obviously all geared toward or most of them are geared toward this being in the nearshore overlay district. Um, part of what I'm going to present tonight is reasons why I think this property should not be in the nearshore overlay district. I recognize that it is. I recognize that this board does not have the authority to remove it from the nearshore overlay district, but this is the this is the avenue we have to try and seek that relief. And um the nearshore overlay when it was created was done so in a way following roads, following property lines. Some of the areas that are included in the nearshore, most of them make perfectly good sense. Some of them that are included do not make sense. Some of them that were excluded do not make sense. So, as we go through the presentation and I go through our reasoning as to why we think Miss Collakin's property should not be included, there's a number of different criteria that the town code specifically stipulates is the reasoning and the justification for what the nearshore overlay is for. And I'm going to show you why I feel that none of those criteria apply to her property. So, uh, if I could share my screen, I've

got a quick presentation. Hopefully quickly. Christina, can you close that box on the bottom right there?

Okay, this is a survey of a property was done recently by John Mento. Um, so this was done as part of the uh uh preparation for this application. So it's it's uh was done within the past uh date November 2025. That's the current survey. This is a blown up version of it. All this information or most of this is what was already submitted. It's part of the application package. I do have some additional stuff gearing toward the nearshore overlay which I will provide to the board after the meeting so that you guys can post it on the site if you want to. Um, but this is our this is her property. Single family residence, an attached garage. It's 66 ft off of Cartrite Road, 20 ft 28 ft off the property line to the north, and between 10.8 and 11.9 ft off of the property to the west. And the garage is 5.3 ft off of the property line to the south. Um, as mentioned before, this is double A zone. Double A zone requires 80,000 square foot lot sizes. This this lot significantly predates double A zone. why it's in an area that does not revert. There's, you know, the reversion maps were created based on subdivisions that were occurred after a certain point or excuse me, prior to a certain point. Um, this isn't explicitly part of a subdivision. So, that's my suspicion as to why it's not included in the re revision map, but either way, it's not included. So, this lot is just over a quarter acre at 28 acres. What we're proposing to do on site, and it's hard to see what the change is because it's pretty subtle from outside of the building, is we've got a parking area here, expanding the driveway so we can park two cars side by side. There's a basement um egress and ingress staircase, exposed staircase here on the

south side of the building. That new staircase is 26.8 8 ft from the side yard line and 14.9 ft from the I'll call it the rear yard line, the yard to the east, excuse me. And we've also got two window wells that are going in and you'll see them on the proposed floor plan here in just a second. And those window wells are to the rear of the house, 8 ft from the uh 8 ft from the property line. They have to come out 3 feet from the side of the foundation and that's the distance we're bringing them out. that falls within the town zoning code of allowing access into and out of a building. So, those do not require and the stairs do not require zoning variances. This is the floor plan for the apartment. Um, again, this is the staircase coming in. Here is the uh approximate grade. This is a profile as if you slice down through that staircase so you can see how it would relate to the grade outside. So, we've got stairs coming down into a new doorway coming into the basement.

I'm so sorry to interrupt you. Absolutely. Um, can you go back to your the Yeah. Is this your This is your site plan. That's a that's a snippet of that's a small part of the site plan. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cuz we don't have that. Is that one that you're going to be submitting? Cuz it the one that we have does not show the new window wells. It shows this as a shower. And I drew that in. Okay. Yeah, I'll get you. That should have been included on showing those two window wells. Okay. And actually, just when you look And there's no shower now. No, the shower's going away. Shower's going away. Okay. No, just the next page. I just want to make sure that the window wells are on our floor plan.

Window well by the doorway and a window well.

Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, we just need an updated site plan. Absolutely. Okay. Okay, the the basement is going to be in two basic sections. The part on the left hand side of the screen is the existing storage, mechanicals, things like that. There's going to be a firewall between that and the apartment, which is the area on the right hand side of your screen. So, a full bathroom, stackable washer and dryer, a small living room area, and then a kitchen dining room area, and then a small 12x 10 1/2 bedroom, and a walk-in closet. So, we've got state code requires a egress window well for the bedroom, and we've also got the egress window well for the um for the main part of the living area. We do have this egress coming out of the building um through that stairway we just mentioned. There's existing doors and windows and the Bilco door that's there now and some other things that are going to end up getting adjusted in order to accommodate this um this construction. One of the things was the uh the outdoor shower that was noted that's going to be going away for that window well. Right. So that's the project in in a nutshell. What I want to concentrate on now is the uh the nearshore overland district and our reasoning as to why this property should not be included in nearshore. So this is shelter obviously as a whole. The area in purple, excuse me, is the nearshore overlay district as it's laid out on the town website. Um, some of the slides that are coming up, you'll see some properties look like they're missing that should be included in the district. This is a guide. It's not exact. So, I went through and I I checked with the code and it says where

the district is and where it isn't based on roads, things shorewood, a shoreward of the uh of the road and things that are some areas they drew a line 500 ft in from the shore. Some areas they did not. So, I'll go through that here in just a second to be able to see it. All right. So, this is the area where Miss Colligan's property is. Um, this is her property right here in middle left center of the uh of the map. She's about 800 ft to the closest point of her property from the surface waters of uh of Cong. And I'm going to go through this. I'm going to do some comparisons. Uh, one of the things I also wanted to talk about was a um, a report that Sarah Lewis had done and Sarah Lewis is a professional planner and she had done this back in September of last year. She was actually going to present this report herself tonight. However, she has recently become a member of the uh of the town planning board and we took it to the ethics committee to make sure that as a member of the planning board, Sarah could present her work to the board herself. Um, and the ethics committee thought that that was overstepping boundaries. All right, not a problem. Is it okay if I present the work to for her? And the board said yes, mainly because it was commissioned and it was performed uh in mid 2025. So because that, you know, that that long predated Sarah's involvement with the planning board, they said it was okay for us to go through the um go through the information that she had prepared. And uh I've dropped off copies of these to the board. You should have gotten them hopefully by now. Um and uh I'll just go through it real quick without you know reading it verbatim or or going on too many of the the finer details. Um Sarah goes through, she describes the property similar to the way that we've already

described it. Um she notes that there are several nearby structures which are, you know, we're at just over 800 ft from the nearshore water line of the the shore boundary. Sarah notes that there are several structures that are between 200 and 600 ft from the water b from the the boundary of the uh of the shoreline. Um, she also notes that this is a unique and unnecessary hardship on this property because of that excessive distance that other properties do not have to uh have to abide by. And I'll show you that in just a second as well. Um, couple of the key things in her report is that we've got the the uh recently installed septic system 2021. Um, we put in an upgraded IIA sepic system. It's good for up to four bedrooms. So, the three-bedroom house and the one-bedroom accessory dwelling unit, that's perfect for that fourbedroom sanitary system. Uh, she also notes that it's a since it's a three-bedroom house and a one-bedroom accessory uh accessory dwelling unit, you're at a fourbedroom equivalent. Um, it's not going to be a 1:1 equivalent as if it was just a single fourbedroom house, but we're also not talking about something that's five, six, seven bedrooms with much more flow, much more impact. Um the general idea being that the the seat the key components of the project and Sarah's arguments as to why from a planning standpoint she feels that this should be approved by the board is that the subject it demonstrates a unique situation where the primary residence is so far away from the nearshore boundary. also that the variance relief is due to the nearshore overlay district boundaries and through no action of the applicants

themselves. So the boundary was placed on this property if the nearshore overlay was in existence prior to Miss Colligan's owning the property but the property is also within this boundary that we feel it should not be. Um we argue that the uh uh the apartment will not negatively impact the character of the neighborhood. You're seeing some letters from people throughout the island who are saying that it will. You've also got a number of letters from the immediate neighbors who said that it won't. So, the people who are actually in the neighborhood have the opinion that this will not have a negative impact on the neighborhood with which they live. Um, so the fact that we're a greater distance from the water, recently upgraded septic system, no increase in imperous surfaces, no encroachment towards any type of waterfront or sensitive environmental areas, utilization of existing infrastructure, minimizing any type of environmental disruption. Uh, these are all things that uh that Sarah points out in her report that that you guys have. Um, areas for public interest. It advances the housing diversity and affordability goals of Shelter Island. It demonstrates a possible development using existing infrastructure, no increase, maintains substantial buffer distances from water sources, creates a housing opportunity without any additional environmental impact, and preserves the the established character of the neighborhood and the nearshore district as a whole. Um so with that I want to expand on that with the information that I had prepared. Um again looking at the distances from uh surface waters we're at about 800 ft to the edge of the property as we go up and into the Cos Harbor heading up toward first causeway. Uh the first point here where the the boundaries of the nearshore overlay

district were going along the road and one property line in it brings it to 410 ft. So half the distance here going up to where Quaker path is in that area. We're looking at half the distance is what it is to Miss Colligan's property. Matt, but in that location, isn't the topography much different? It does go up. So that and that's one of the things that factors in to the arguments about why Miss Colligan's property doesn't apply. I'll get to that in just Yeah. Thank you.

Um as you're going through Hay Beach. Yeah. Again, it's there's a topography difference because you've got some higher elevations here, but you're 360 feet in on that northeast side, 420 ft in on the west side coming up through into the heights. Um, you've got 450 like this area here, rainbow circle and all that that should be colored in. I believe that's part of the nearshore overlay district. That's one of the things I mentioned earlier that this map is not a perfect representation of what the code actually says. Um, so 450 ft in, you've got coming over here just south of the beach club, 160 ft in coming down here into West Neck. Um, this is one where the prop the the nearshore overlay boundary didn't make sense to follow property lines. So in some of these areas, not all of them, in some of them, they said, "Let's rather than follow a property line, let's go 500 feet in from the the water's edge." So it the nearshore overlay bicts this piece of property. So it's actually this section here is actually part of the nearshore overlay. You've got another area here as you're coming through Hyo and you're only 410 ft up coming in from the shoreline. Coming down through South Midway. These two properties are included in it. I'm not sure why they're not colored in, but we're going along South Midway and we're only at 180 ft in. Um, these are at elevations that are lower than the elevation where Miss Colligan's property is. This is the one that really had me scratching my head. Um, where we're coming in here where we've got Mananic, Dickerson, and um, and Fresh Pond. We're at 72 feet in at the closest property right in that area. And if that

area shouldn't isn't in the nearshore overlay, I don't know of an area that should be that clearly should be in the nearshore just as Silver Beach, um, Montlair, Tuttle Drive, all these different areas, Shore, parts of Shorewood, those areas should all be in the nearshore overlay. So should this. And one of the reasons I'm pointing this out is the nearshore overlay boundary was drawn in a way that made sense to them as they were drawing it. But it was also drawn for the ease of creating the boundary. They didn't, you know, go through and look individually sight by sight and say this property should be included, this property should not be included. And they've actually created the balancing tests themselves, which we'll get to in a second as to how to determine which property should be in and which property should not. Um coming back up through here through uh um Winthrop you've got a couple of tight spots 100 ft uh 500 feet. This is a boundary coming down here through um Sylvester Manor and it's another one where it didn't make sense to follow a property line. So they said let's come in 500 ft from the shoreline and we'll call it a day. And so that's the nearshore boundary as it comes down through Benazuli and then down here through uh um Sylvester Manor. All right. So these are the uh uh the intent of the nearshore uh peninsula overlink district. And what we're looking at here is the purpose of the district which is to protect selected areas unique importance of the water and other natural resources of the town. Nobody's arguing with that. Everybody agrees and understands that's a no-brainer. It's an important thing. Um, and as the town code puts in, here's these five criteria for what they're using to say why a property or why the nearshore overly district is important. And I'm going to go through them one at a time. The freshwater table is close to sea

level and risk of saltwater intrusion exists or has occurred through consumptive use of available portable water. Silver Beach is the first one that comes to everybody's mind. Montlair, um areas of uh um of Tuttle Drive, some of these u Tarquettle, those areas, that's it. That there's it's there's no reason to think twice about any of them. But when you're looking at a property like Miss Colligan's that her well has got 42 ft of water in it. And to give you a little bit of perspective, when we're drilling a well, the health department has a couple of numbers that we look for. And the shallowest well is 10 ft. really you have to go for a variance if you want to get any well under 10 ft under any circumstance. The the typical well that they're shooting for is 40 ft and that's water above the well screen. So typically it's a 44 foot deep well into groundwater. So if your grade your surface grade is at 84 ft for simple math, you go down 40 ft to groundwater, another 44 ft for the rest of your well. That's how the well gets constructed. So at the Collican property, the wells at 42 ft. It's basically a maximum depth well that the health department requires. There's there is it's impossible to say that the the the groundwater at Colligan's property meets this criteria of item number one, which is saying that the freshwater table is close to sea level and the risk of saltwater intrusion exists and has occurred through consumptive use. The well has got at least 40 ft of watering. It's unlikely. We don't know how deep the freshwater aquifer goes in these areas because no one's gone down and and done samples. The closest USGS wells are that are active are over by um Cong. So they're quite a distance away to see

where the bottom of that freshwater lens is. But by the existence of all of these wells in the immediate area, we know it's nowhere close to surface waters to to the top of the surface water. Item number two, land surface is close to the level of the freshwater table. Meaning, you know, you got areas in the center of town where five, six feet from grade to groundwater. Uh areas like Silver Beach as well. I'm not picking on Silver Beach, but that's one that really uh really shows the uh the concern of the the nearshore overlay at the Colligan property. We're going down 15 and a half feet below grade before we get to the uh before we get to the aquifer. As a design rule stipulated by the health department and by the DEEC and just by good engineering practices, anything over 10 to 12 ft is considered is not considered shallow. 10 to 12 ft and less is considered shallow. In this case, we're at 15 ft 15 1/2 ft. Um, also this is from the uh the wershed management plan. This is showing the general elevation of groundwater throughout the island. Our site is right here, right on that twoft contour. And that agrees with the fact that our grade at our test hole site was 17.5. We went down 15 1/2 ft. We hit water. Groundwater is at 2 feet. So that's in compliance in agreement with the the groundwater management plan. Item number three, the land drains towards key uh towards creeks, baywaters, um increasing potential pollution from surface or below ground uh drainage. This is uh the unfortunately the best topographical map I could get of the island. Um and basically it doesn't really do good to show you individual spots, but does show

you the trends. So this is where our site is. That same color greenish yellowish color in that whole area shows that it's not grading toward the uh grading toward the water. If this was going a much darker green around that toward the water, then you would be able to see that it dra it it would drain toward the water. It doesn't. The site is at a 17 to 18 ft elevation. We're right here just to the north and east of it. It's a 20 foot elevation, so the grade actually goes up to the north and east. Um, it stays relatively flat through most of this. There's another 25 ft elevation here. Um, here's a uh 20 foot. I know here's a 30 foot, excuse me, and then here's a 20 foot. So, this whole area is relatively flat with a slight upward incline as you're heading toward uh toward Congress Creek. And then is there density of development or anticipated future development threaten ecologically sensitive areas? Again, we're we're 800 ft from the shoreline. There's no uh you know shoreline sensitive environmental areas within um the the general vicinity of this property. We've got town protected property here. There's a big vacant pri vacant property across the street that's not developed, but it does have the possibility of being developed which has no impact or vice versa on whether there's the single family dwelling in ADU at the Colligan property. These other properties are all developed already and there's a um and then there's Mishanic. So in the general area there is no real risk of additional development in this area. No reasonable one. Um and then the last point, the land drains toward freshwater ponds which are hydraulically connected to outcroppings

of the freshwater table which may result in pollution of the freshwater table. This is a New York State DEEC freshwater map. Um this is our property is right here. So you can see these are the freshwater wetlands. Lily Pond here um the areas that are down like in Heritage Shelterlands area. nowhere anywhere near this property. There is a it's a a a physical impossibility for storm water to go from the Collagan property to any of these freshwater wetlands. Um if storm water can get there then then the world is turned upside down. So that is um that's in essence the the idea that that this property it has some challenges mainly because of its lot size mainly because of its the the boundary of the nearshore overlay coming across the road frontage. Um some of the main issues that have come up I know for the um for looking at the use variance issues is the economics of it. um the economics at the East End, the the the nation as a whole. Everybody knows that we've got a housing crisis. Everybody knows we've got an affordability crisis. Um enabling this to move forward can significantly help both of those things, both for the applicant and for somebody else if she's able to rent this apartment out to somebody else at an affordable rate. the um the idea that this project could have a negative environmental impact, it just doesn't play out in the facts. And I know that I'm fighting against the idea that the nearshore overlay has got its established boundary. But we also have to recognize that that that's not an infallible boundary. It's not perfect.

It can be adjusted. It should be adjusted. And these are exactly the kinds of things that I think this board is here for. That if a specific property has obvious circumstances that show that the code is not fairly applied here that relief should be granted. Um couple of things have been brought up in some of the uh uh some of the correspondence that had been brought in. If the, you know, people discuss additional things and the board has questions towards any of those, I'll be more than happy to answer them at that time. But unless the board has questions for me, that's that's what I've got. I I have a couple quick questions for

um could someone have this house, do that stuff in the basement, and just leave out a stove and then that would be totally legal? Yeah, people do that all the time. They do they do an accessory sleeping unit. Um, and an accessory sleeping unit is basically an accessory apartment without a stove. It can have two bedrooms. It could have a kitchen. It can have laundry facilities. Everything else. Um, I shouldn't say it could have a kitchen. It could have something that would resemble a kitchen had you put in a stove. Yeah. Anyone else have any other questions for Matt at this time?

No. Um so that one of the things in in the report that you gave us from the planner. Yes. Um uh she said that uh we talk the hardship not being self-created. Um part of it was the nearshore overlay, but then there was a discussion of this grant thing. Can you can you explain that to us a little bit? The ADU grant. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, and actually, uh, Gran might be better better suited for for describing the finer details of that program, but basically it's, um, you know, there's there's income qualifications. If somebody meets the uh, um, the threshold, they can get qualified for the ADU grant. We've had several applications in front of the board for these. The one earlier tonight was one. Um, so if you're be below that threshold, then the uh, um, I believe it's a state grant. The state grant will pay for a substantial a substantial portion of one of these projects to either create a conversion of a basement or in that other one a new building. Um I don't believe there's any limitations on what that building can be, you know, who that building can be rented to.

Is there a limit on how much you can charge anybody? That's what I'm saying. I don't I don't believe there is, but I I defer that. No, there's not. Okay. We'll wait. We'll we'll ask Brian directly. Yes or no? There's not. Okay. Thank you. Um I have feel probably got a few other people weigh in. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. All right.

Um anyone else wishing to speak? I have a few things to add. Mary, if you come on up to I have trouble standing for Okay. So just identify yourself and and try been uh previous building coordinator for the town for almost 30 years. Uh you know I've lived here since 1960. I have a few questions. Um and of course I've worked with Matt probably his whole career.

Pretty much have great respect for everybody. The property is in doublea zone presumed. There have been changes voting zoning code. I'm not able to get a copy of it on the computer due to whatever website my computer. But typically in those instances the property would be say in double A zone but reverting to a zone because of what is once was created. I don't know if that make a difference in their setbacks. It used to be near shoreline. I'll be the first to agree that somebody gave their kid a crayon as they did with the lines for the sprinkler ordinance. You know, you could be on this side of the road and have a sprinkler system. You could be 30 foot away and you couldn't, like I say, it was very arbitrated. arbitrary and it is very wrong and I said that in 87 when they instituted it um I do not believe the property is in a flood zone by any means if it's that far away 800T or better from the shoreline and depending upon the elevation which is significant it shouldn't be in nearshore even the DEC regulations They're crazy. And they're crazy. Um, I do have a question though. I did go over. I was hoping to get there earlier, but I didn't until today. It is my understand that Miss Colling got a permit, I believe, in June of 25 to be able to rent

the house, rooms, whatever. Um, renting a house is one thing. Renting rooms, of course, in nearshore would not be. You can't have a boarding house after that was adopted. Uh, so I don't know how you could have an accessory apartment. And then I question and maybe it's none of my business. You know, Phil, I've got a big mouth. You know, you all know me. It is my understanding that Mrs. Colligan still owns a house on Smith Street which she rents out. So is this going to be an owner occupied anything the place on Cartright Road or is it all for profit? And in which case if it's all for profit I don't understand how you can claim hardship. Um,

so I just I I don't I don't know if that has there's a lot I don't understand. Okay. Uh yeah, I don't have an answer to the uh owner occupied or about the rental permit, but I can I can ask Lyn and I can let him uh I I would say Mary, I'm not aware of her owning another house. I don't know anybody on the board. She no longer does. That's possible. Like I say, um I've been retired almost 10 years, so it's not like I've got taxes to everything. Um yeah, I I'm I'm not aware of that. Um it's I I just don't know. Okay.

Um anyone else wish um Gina Krauss I can answer a couple questions for the ADU. you do have to be owner occupied. So even for the previous one, the owner can live in the new ADU and rent out the old house, but you do have to be owner occupied here. Um, so I just want to first of all say thank you to Lynn Colligan um for stepping forward to take advantage of the ADU program that's being offered here and supported by the town of Shelter Island to address the dire need for housing on Shelter Island. Um it is not an easy process as I'm going through with my son. Um it is put all on the owner and no responsibility put on the town to address this need. Um it's it's amazing. Um and I think also that this project is creating a small unit um like Matt said 800 ft from the water line. The health department, Suffach Health Department does due diligence. I can tell you after being 10 months with Eric not even near the water, they have ensured that that septic system and that well being built for four bedrooms, which means one additional bedroom and bath probably for her unit has already been considered and made sure to be safe for the environment, safe for the people that live in that home, who will occupy an additional bedroom and bath and for the neighboring district. No doubt. So Suffach County Health Department is doing a lot of your work for you. I can attest to that. So, I hope that this CBA board will approve the variance and take into account that Lynn is going I I call it stepping up stepping up to support her community and she is certainly a

vibrant person in this community, a person who's been a teacher in this community, supportive of our community, and she's got to live in the house to to rent it out. That I know is in the fine print of the ATU program. So, I hope that you will grant the veterans. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Yan Sudor, resent of Shelter Island.

Okay. I just want to first comment on this planner memo which to us looked like a strange document. We weren't sure but I understand that the author is the just recently appoint last month appointed the member new member of the planning board. So we weren't sure whether it was CBA that requested this document or whether it was I'm not sure. I I think it was commissioned by the applicant.

Was commissioned by the applicant. Okay. It was dated September 25. So it kind of looks strange and also like if you look at the properties of the PDF file, it lists as author M Sherman. Um and then at the end it says we respectfully request. So who is he? Who is we? Okay. So obviously that was not clear to us but it seems like you said at least studied this document and I don't know what the we is. Can you explain it was that it's it you uh the document is from Sarah Lewis. Sarah Lewis is

we see

okay so um as to the content of this document the the the argument that the conclusion is that the comparative analysis demonstrates that similar development exist at the comparable closer distances to the water bodies establish establishing precedent for the requested relief. So the distance from the water is not the issue here because uh the zoning and wet lots regulations only require that the properties no closer 100 ft from the water. Okay. So this the fact that there are houses who are that are 200 300 400 ft from the water and this property is 800 uh I mean it's completely irrelevant. Okay. Uh the issue in front of the CBA is the paragraph 13317 of the code which states that new no new accessory apartment may be constructed in the nearshore and peninsula overlay district. Okay. Um so uh so it is the other other way around. Not that other houses which are located closer to the shore create some kind of precedent to allow this house to be to be located there. It's it's actually uh allowing this uh ADU u to first ever ADU to be to be permitted in nearshore way will create president for other ADUs to be located in the near district. So basically in effect you would be uh like eliminating nearshore overlay because once you create a president um then other people will ask for the same. I have an accessory sleeping quarters which I use once a year or twice a year to overflow the friends of

my kids. Um so about me you know can I have a idea in LSO? I'll rent it out. will make some extra money and so forth. So you see where I'm where I'm going with this that basically this would be a precedent uh setting case uh they would basically abolish over time because once you create one president then other people will come and ask for the same you know if you run with one then why not me um so um the other argument presented in the um in the hardship that whether the heart should be self-created or not. So you know the the applicant or actually the planner is arguing um that availability of this new program in this New York state plus au created a hardship on her. She bought the house number of years ago. Uh but this new program created a hardship but nobody forces her to apply for it. So, how is that not self-created? Partip is self-created because she's applying for for this ADU in NSO which is not permitted by the current zoning and um so so this is self-s serving it's kind of circular argumentation and it's it's basically self self-s serving argument. Okay. Another argument uh by the planner public interest for example uh advances shelter islands housing diversity and affordability goals. Well, that must be balanced by the public interests of preserving environment in fragile coastal areas and not creating

precedents that will basically overturn completely invalidate u uh which is in a code for a reason. both the uh double A zone which is to limit density in fragile cluster areas as well as to um as well as the um and prohibition of the ADOC and so are for the reason to protect those areas. Okay. Um finally you know the opinion of M Sherman that the interior boundary of the overlay district is arbitrary. Okay. Well, I mean I don't know if you have proper qualifications to say that it's arbitrary. You think it's arbitrary? You're pointing uh here is 200 ft, here is 400 ft in different areas, but this is just some swaying. I mean, do you have any hydraological studies? Are you qualified to to say that this is arbitrary? In your opinion, it's arbitrary. But you yourself creating arbitrarity by saying um you know that this is too short, this is too long on what basis. Okay. So I mean in order to change the NSO, abolish it or change it. Uh I think you should uh petition downward to commission an extensive environmental study and then see what's appropriate or what's not appropriate. But like waving arms and pointing on different distance in different areas that's just not sufficient argumentation.

Thank you. Um, Yan, you you you made a statement that is actually incorrect that uh this would be the first ever ADU in nearshore overlay.

Okay. In 2006, there was one um uh Punch was here and Mary was here. Um it was uh 20 South Manantic Road, the Meister application. uh they were granted a uh uh uh a uh a use variance. They uh did in fact build a they had a building and they they built a uh an ADU in it. Um and I I know there was a lawsuit afterwards and there was you know the thought that there would be this uh uh a rush to for everybody else to do these things. And here we are 20 years later and now it's the next one.

This is the second case, not this will be the second case. Yes. The first the first one was 20 years ago. Now I understand you times have changed, right? And and and because of this state program, there may be more people looking to do something like this. I don't know how many people in nearshore overlay would actually meet the income qualifications for an ADU. I I don't know. Um, but I just want to put it out there that there was one 20 years ago and there wasn't a mad rush for everyone else to do it. It it is a heavy lift and and uh so I I just want to throw that out there.

Well, yes, but okay. So, there was one case 20 years ago. Perhaps there was not it shouldn't have been permitted. Okay. But it was just one case. Now we have several ADUs because number one the property values increased so much that I understand that there is a housing shortage and affordability problem and so forth. Uh and also what changed is that the state is coming in giving people 125,000 destinations. So everybody's rushing to capture that and therefore there is more incentive to build. Okay. So there may be several ADUs but like I said I can do even I can do my own ADU even without the 125,000. Okay. I mean am I going to get the permission for it? And then maybe other people

I look it's that everyone has the right to appeal to the zoning board of appeals. Yes. But time changes. Sorry. Time changes over the years. why you need something. Um, so, so now you're talking economics or affordability and so forth. What about environment? I I agree on I I I think that there there are, you know, uh, in the nearshore overlay, there are legitimate environmental concerns. There's no no doubt about that. Yeah. Yeah. So, so everybody you're saying that everybody has a right to apply to

Well, any person who owns property on Shelter Island? Yeah. Um, if they want to do something that is not permitted by the code is allowed to come to the ZBA and ask for relief from the code.

Okay, that's fine. But if you start wrapping the ADC in a cell, then how you going to say no to the next applicant with similar You know, I think that each each application is different, right? And and each one has unique traits and I think that, you know, not just things whatever we we haven't had any nearshore overlay things here, but I think that we try to look at things on a case-bycase basis. And so every case is different. I can't tell you what might be approved. I can't tell you that this is going to be approved, but I can tell you that we're going to look at it. Um and we're going to listen to everyone that speaks here tonight.

Yeah. I mean there are a number of other people who have concerns about it. Basically our primary concern is creating president. Once you create president uh then others will be applying. Okay. And you cannot say no because once you grant it to somebody else you cannot just say uh you cannot have selective application of rules. Okay. So somebody got it next person. I just give you another example, another example right okay the uh Tom gets you know refused permission to build and then the applicant turn to you know his lawyer to the court and say well the town granted 30 permits like that before why are you refusing to

so the town didn't actually deny that application y they put a moratorum in place right it's so just so let's that's that's exactly what happened I I don't know the details. Okay. But that's what happened. Basically, they they lost because they created so many precedences that he couldn't refuse anymore. And that's what's happening when you create presidents. And we're seeing precedences all the time being created in different areas. Thank you. Yes.

Anyone else wish to speak? Right? Hey, Dr. Johnson. Um, I can answer any questions about the ADU program if you have them. And I just want to talk, you know, say in support of this application that it will create um housing diversity on the island and it's in supportive of Okay. So, let me let me ask you a quick question. So, the the ADU program, it does require owner occupation. Owner occupancy. Yep. Okay. Um, and there are no limits on the actual rent. Is that right?

Right. It's it's designed more for the homeowner to be income qualified and to create income for them as well as create housing. So there is there isn't a um yeah there's no there's not a set limit for the rent but we are you know kind of hoping and I think you know a small one-bedroom apartment is going to be um you know pretty affordable. A lot of a lot of ADUs I think will be on the lower end of rent spectrum. They're not going to be you know top dollar. And um I read a story in the report recently and it was talking about how how many people had applied for these these grants uh how many were in the works. Yeah.

Um and and um and that there was maybe one opportunity left. I'm curious out of the ones that are in the works that we haven't seen yet, are any of those in the nearshore overlay?

There are. Um I know there's at least one that may be applying for ZBA depending on the results tonight. Uh and there are a bunch of people who were interested but dropped out because they are neutral. Um we we do have you know a few slots open. Um there's kind of a process to get through that whole application as well. So some people will start it but then decide it's not right for them or you know for whatever reason they have dropped out. So have a couple slots to So how many slots do you are does the program have in Totality around 16. 16.

Yeah. And we have four completed, seven in some phase of design, I think. Um, is there um are there any time limits from when you get the grant to when it has to be completed? Does this reset? Does it after these are done will there be another we applied for another a sign we have a second round. Yeah. Okay. Which I think was 1.5 million.

Um so but the states we haven't like pushed to get that yet. We want to fill these first and then see if the state will give us that because they may send it to other areas who haven't gotten. So it's not a guarantee that these will get done and then a year later another 17 or 16. No, no, not at all. Like I think the state actually wants to push, you know, those other rounds to other places, other municipalities that haven't, you know, gotten it on the first round. And are there any other regulations that you can think of besides being owner occupied? It's a year round lease. Okay. Um, so the the tenant has to be a yearround permanent resident.

So that's one of the things that we think is really positive. you know, these aren't going to be short-term rentals, okay? They're not going to be um Airbnbs. Um they're going to be, you know, full-time homes for people. And that's that's what we're trying to, you know, help people do. And if say someone applies um for the ADU and gets um approval and what if they don't rent it out then what how is that reated? I mean yeah so the grant is given for the construction cost. It's not given directly to the owner. It's given to the contractors through CDLI or partners.

And if they are not in compliance they would have to pay that back. If for whatever reason five years down the road um you know the house sells or something then they also have to pay it back you know. Oh, what's the term that they would have to be before they had to pay back the I think there's a 10-year compliance period and then it's forbidden. So, so let's say someone, you know, applies builds the ADU and they can't find a ten I mean they probably won't have but if they can't find a tenant then what happens? They have to give the money back, but they then have I mean I would imagine but then they have this accessory dwelling unit.

Okay. But if it's not being you know leased out under the grant then the grant money goes back. Yeah. However, and I need to write that out again. Once a CO is issued for the building with an accessory department. Just because they choose not to rent it does not necessarily mean the jammer's going to go ahead and revoke it. And another thing I just I don't mean to interrupt you, Graham. No.

Um the Meister property that was referenced before was also a great distance away from the wetland, but also it was not a nonconforming parcel. the the size of the parcel was big. Absolutely. Yep. Yep. Yep. That's right. It was basel. Yeah. But but my point was Mary that was this ain't the first, right? Oh no, honey. I understand that very well. Yeah.

Um and also I myself have concerns about that because once it is allowed, you know, where do you draw the line? But like I say, this is a particularly substandard. Yep. All right, thank you. Anybody else have any questions for Bran? No. Thank you. All right. Anyone else like to speak?

Jimbo Jimbo, Shel resident here tonight. I'd like to speak uh in support of Miss Colligan and her appeal as well as the plus one ADU program. Uh for those people that are not aware, I am I guess one of the four completed ADU projects in Shelter Island. Um I recently uh just received my one year of actual occupancy with my tenants and uh I had to verify my residency at the property where the ADU was constructed as my primary residence. Um, the whole experience working with CDLI, uh, Matt Sherman, the town, uh, was really, uh, pretty incredible. And I think for me that didn't connect until we actually had our tenants move in. And, um, realizing that the ADU program creates homes for community members. And as we are here tonight and we discuss the idea of the environment, the nearshore overlay, conforming, not conforming, all these the jargon that I'm not great at and people like Matt are. Um, having a family of four get to move into a two-bedroom, two bath, like modern quality apartment. Um, felt really good as a community member myself. Somebody who was born and raised here. Uh, I went to high school here. I've now been teaching at the high school 14 years. And um I've seen our enrollment dwindle. I've seen friends of mine move away because they couldn't afford to stay here. I've seen uh people choose to not be able to come back because they couldn't afford a home here. and the family that is occupying our ADU. One of the things that we discussed prior to them moving in was they wanted to know exactly what movein date they could possibly get in because what they wanted to do and what they chose to do is as soon as they vacated their prior rental um they called family members of

theirs uh who did not live here and they had them move into their prior rental. So, while our ADU being constructed uh gave a home to uh for Shelter Island residents and community members, uh it also opened up new uh housing for other people that previously weren't here. And I just think that if we look at the long-term scope of this island and what its future is, I think it's important that we keep people here. Um and to Mr. Tudal, to your point, I don't know your property at all. I don't understand the town building code at all, but if the ADU program is going to incentivize other people like yourself who maybe have the means to apply for an ADU and if it is so approved and that creates additional housing units on this island, I think that is a wonderful thing. So, if that's something that you consider, I I hope you follow that through.

Um, I'm going to get it.

I'm not on the zoning board now. I'm just trying to understand it all. But I like I think if that's what these ADUs do, I think that is a real step forward for our town and giving people the opportunity to live here. Um so uh the ADU program is amazing in short. Um as a teacher at the school, as someone who would not have been able to uh construct this apartment without the assistance of that grant money, um it in the immediate has provided real value for the people who are getting to live in this space. you know, a livable place with a new kitchen, uh, laundry, washer, dryer, right? Simple amenities that I know when the Cockos Harbor uh, laundry was under service, like I don't know where people on Shelter Island who didn't have laundry in their apartments, I don't know where they did their laundry. And that's kind of a wild thing to think about when we look at um, all the opportunities that are out here for most homeowners and most people. Um, long term, it provides me a plan for my future and my children's future. I have two two children. My daughter's eight, my son is six, and I hope that if they choose to want to uh live more of their life on Shelter Island, I believe this ADU will give me the option to do that. Um, and Miss Crackway, to your point about the um if it doesn't rent or or uh whatever, I know per the terms of the plus one program, you are able to rent it at a Z lease to a family member if you so choose, but it still is a year- round rental, right? Or a year-round occupied property. And I think again thinking about our future and yes I know that environmental issues are important uh we also have to look at how ADUs can actually work handinhand with uh environmental conservation and preservation and I think putting people on um let's keep it simple right with like on the same septic system I think that's really valuable right Miss Colligan's home has a four four bedroomedroom septic system and her house currently has three bedrooms I'm a math teacher And I think 3+ 1 is still

four. So I I think you know that makes sense, right? Let's let someone else make use of this of this program. Um and if the main point that I can add here tonight is about community, I just want to speak a little bit about Lynn, uh who's been a colleague and a friend of mine for a long time. She has been an employee at the Shelter Island School for 18 years. Um she has two daughters, uh who are both alumni of our school, neither of whom are currently living here. uh whether they want to come back at some point, that would be great. Um if Lynn chooses to stay here by herself and per the terms of the grant, if she were to occupy the ADU and then there becomes a three-bedroom uh house available for another young family, like there's just so much utility to it. Um Lynn has served in the past as the president of the Shelter Island Education Foundation, which does incredible things to uh broaden the educational opportunities for our students beyond the boundaries of Shelter Island. Um, and she's also taken an active role in that. Lynn has traveled with students of ours. Um, teaching them how to be better global citizens, traveling to Spain, uh, last summer for a language immersion program. Uh, traveling recently with our senior class to Virginia Beach as part of their class trip. She is a, uh, she writes for the reporter. Um, couple of different columns. Uh, Love on the Rock is a pretty good one. Check her out. Uh, she's been on the ZBA for 10 years. And in my opinion, Lynn Colligan is the definition of a community member. and granting this variance so that she could continue to pursue this ADU program. Um, it will allow us to retain highquality community members like Miss Collian. So, I understand there's a lot to sift through regarding the application, the environmental issues, everything that's been stated here tonight. And I do want to say thank you to Matt Sherman for such a clear and obvious presentation of the definitions of the near overlay. Someone who doesn't live in it and doesn't understand it at all. a point by-point line item to say that this property really doesn't meet those constraints. That was like a wonderful

bit of education. Um, and I really hope that um the board here can sift through all of that and and make a difficult decision that would ultimately be beneficial to Miss Colligan. Yes. Personally, but um really our town and our community on a wider sense. That's all I have. So, if you have any questions, I'm happy to ask. Thank you. I do have one more question. Just a clarification. Yes. um for your ADU um you did not need to come before any zoning board or or look for any relief for your specific one. Correct. Correct. Your lot size was okay. The setbacks you were able to build within the setback. Yes, ma'am. Um there were no issues like that with your specific one. Correct. Okay. Yeah. Um I'll say two more things then. Yeah.

Uh I've previously gone before the planning board for subdivision. I just think something else that's worth saying uh throughout all that's been said at this meeting and all the different references to different things. I think it is very important to keep it on this case by case basis. When I went to the planning board for a subdivision, they um had questions regarding uh neighboring properties or or neighbors had questions and you know the the tone that that evening was that we keep it with the the case in question and I hope we're able to do that here tonight as well. Um and then the second piece of information um

uh Lynn does not own a house on Smith Street. this home on Cartrite Road is the only home on Shelter Island that she owns. So, um, in terms of any fears or concerns that this is a money-making scheme through either state grant funds or additional rental properties, that that is not the situation. Lynn is looking pursuing this opportunity um, as a community member, as a homeowner, and meeting the owner occupied constraints of the grant program. Thank you, Jimbo. You're welcome. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Anyone else wish to speak in the audience here tonight? No. Um, anyone in Zoomland? Christina? Stephen Jacobs? Sure.

Uh, good evening everyone. Uh, just a few brief comments. Uh, Stephen Jacobs. I'm on a friend's balcony in Syracuse. Hopefully there won't be too much noise in the background. Um I I when I prepared my uh fairly lengthy submission I was not aware u as I've just heard that back in 2006 uh there was a variance issued uh in the nearshore overlay albeit for a regularsized lot. Uh but that does not change the fact that uh the applicant here simply has not met the requisite legal requirements for a use variance. um and an area variance. Uh I just want to highlight one of the many requirements that have not been met. Uh and that's indeed the first requirement identified in town law 267B. um which requires that an applicant quote cannot realize a reasonable return provided that the lack of return is substantial as demonstrated by competent financial evidence. Closed quote. We've heard uh many things that I've concur with fully. there is a uh affordability crisis in housing on the island in the county and the nation. Um I've heard uh wonderful things about the applicant. Uh the ADU program is trying to meet uh some of these problems, but quite frankly, none of that applies much less satisfies that particular condition. Uh and that's one of um in

the case of an area v uh used variance rather five separate and independent legal requirements that need to be satisfied. Uh, and if you uh go back and look, I'm not suggesting you do it now, but particularly with respect to the substantial return requirement on page three of my submission, uh, I cite some case law, some New York State guidance, um, and all of the things we've heard and the roughly hour uh, of presentations from the applicants. um um uh engineer and supporters uh just as I said aren't relevant to that. Uh finally, I just want to say and and perhaps some others will deal with some of the other aspects of this, but I would like to request that either uh the hearing be kept open or that um opponents be given a period of 10 days after the applicant has finished submitting uh whatever additional um documentation is going to be submitted. And I note, for example, that this um planning memo dated September, I think it was, uh was only posted, so far as I know, uh on the website uh yesterday or today. uh fairness um and appropriate process compels that uh those of us that have concerns about this application be permitted uh an opportunity to respond to that uh and whatever else the applicant may submit. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Um anyone else in Zoomland? Christina? No. Okay. Matt, you in your submission you had Okay. Okay, Miss Demeris.

Yes. Hi there. Good evening. I I'd like to address some things that I had written in my letter and I just want to pull it up. Uh, obviously Mr. Sudall mentioned that in town code 3317, accessory apartments are not permitted in the earth overlay district. I mentioned that if it hadn't been in existence prior to this overlay district being enacted and established, it's also prohibited. The other thing that I wanted to bring to the attention to the board, if you haven't had a chance to read my letter, is that the town's community housing plan also does not pro permit uh any applications in the nearshore overlay district. It specifically says as stated in the housing plan, the community housing floating zone was established for potential applicability to any property in the town except the nearshore peninsula overlay district. Also, I'd like to say that the comprehensive plan that we are working under from 1994 does not support this kind of uh development in the nearshore overlay district. I gave you the reference to that in chapter 5, page 4. I would ask you to look at that. In addition, the community housing chapter of the town code, chapter 51, clearly states that a license may not be issued for rental of a structure in the nearshore overlay district. And that's provision 519 that says that you have to get a special community housing license. And then 5113A in the rules and regulations, those licenses may be issued for properties located in all zones except the nearshore peninsula overlay district. And I think that it is uh pertinent that this board take those provisions of town law and the plan into consideration when looking at this application.

Obviously, the use variance of the lot size is excessive at 85%. And um there's just I I I would ask that you really look at this carefully. CDCLI plus one program right now has no money. The state has not funded it. There is no grant money available for 2026. The application process has been closed. I don't know if they're coming back to Shelter Island and going to open that. That should also be investigated. Uh this is this was brought to light when Gwen O'Shea from CDCLI recently came before the town board about a project of of a different matter. So I so there's no reason that she's going to be able to get a grant. We haven't seen the application to say that she has. As a matter of fact, in the short environmental assessment form that was submitted, it clearly says that approval of this is pending a grant. So I looked into the grants from 2023 and at that time obviously as a as a school teacher Miss Colligan's salary is available to the public and at the time in 2023 she had already exceeded the limit for a CDC grant. I think that needs to be further investigated that we have no evidence of any kind of financial thing and and she's not um paying taxes with a star exemption. So I I don't know where the hardship comes in on this project. But the fact that you may indeed want to grant her use variance and an area variance on this by town code, she cannot get a license. And if she can't get a license, she cannot rent the apartment. And to me, that's really the end all of this application. Until those codes are changed and the plan has changed in the community housing plan, I don't see how you can move forward with

making any uh intelligent decision on this. So, but uh I hope that you take that to heart and I thank you for your time.

Thank you. Um Brian, please just want to correct something Pam said. Uh, this community housing license has nothing to do with the ADU program and community housing license, correct me if I'm wrong, uh, is a way for the community housing board to grant zoning relief to members who are creating community housing. And it's not something we our board has never granted. So, has nothing to do with ADU program. Thank you. Um, Yan, please.

Yeah, I just wanted to re repeat my concerns about creating president and the chair, the new chair of committee housing board himself confirmed that they had several people who might be applying for uh ADU in the nearshore zone depending on the outcome of this case. Okay. So if you grant ADU in NSO that might open the floodgate and uh of the other applications and it will be difficult to reject anybody else once you create a president. I'll give you an two other examples when u president creates harm. Uh one was the uh dock on Ponic Bay uh that was granted a few years ago and uh then another application came in a few years later and the uh the applicant and his attorney were pushing really hard that hey there's a dog you know 300 ft away how can you deny this several members of the town board actually wanted to stand up and refused this because that other dog was a mistake. Uh that was under siller administration. Okay. And then um uh but the decision was we cannot really uh defend this. If we refuse this, we we're going to lose in court basically. Okay. Um so uh I give you another example. Okay. I this is my second time in front of CBA only. The first time I came when I was hearing for application for Sylvester Mano to basically grant them you know the right to do anything they want and uh among other people I argued against creating precedence and basically nooking the uh

doublea by permitting all kinds of activities whatever so man wants. Okay. and this board agreed to this this argumentation of myself and others uh that um you know this should be strictly controlled and precedents should not be created okay for which I'm very grateful um so my argumentation right now is entirely consistent with this which is I'm really afraid of creating presidents and I've seen that done in many other instances and then it's really difficult to uh to stand the ground you know against the onslaught of people who want to do the same thing. So I just would hope that you all take into the consideration and think really hard time of you know when calling on a teacher outing member of community I wish her house was on the other side of the road and was not in NSO. Okay. So the proper way to address this would be to change the NSO but not because of whatever but on some scientific basis okay and orderly process from the environmental study done and u there's some rationale for it not just like willy nearly you know carving out u spots from the LSO because it fits the applicant or uh the engineer is quiet. Thank you.

Thank question. Um so uh no I don't have a question for you.

Matt, you you in your uh submission you addressed some of the the uh financial things that uh Mr. Jacobs was talking about, but I don't think he spoke about them tonight. Uh no, I didn't go into too much detail on that. Yeah. Uh basically in my submission I had looked at the um the uh uh what I had talked about earlier as a response to the affordability issues. I know the town has implemented and supported several programs to help with uh home uh housing and home ownership, including the uh CDLI plus1 program. Um um and that while it's difficult to qualify a reasonable return, it is clear the affordable housing is very real and significant negative factor for living on the island. Um, and if true the property owner as well as a future render of an ADU would be created. So being created would end up helping to uh uh to lessen some of that financial hardship on those at least two housing units, the uh the owner and the the renter of that property. And you know, since I'm back up here, I will say that the idea of creating a pre one, I'm not here to argue for or against president because something was approved in the past or denied in the past doesn't mean the same thing should apply later because each one of these properties is unique. And I think that any reasonable person can look at that and see that. I also, it's not lost on me that the argument was made that the board cannot approve this because if you do, you're going to set a precedent. And as soon as you set a precedent, throw out the code. You're going to have to prove everyone after that. Well, we've already approved

one. All right. I didn't mean that you would set a precedent that had to make everything else approved. If you approve the second one, that's going to set a precedent. So, the goalpost keeps moving. I think that if you approve this application, you will be setting a precedent to say that if you can show that a different property does not meet the criteria of what should be included in the Airore Overlay district, we will consider approving that application. That's the precedent that's going to be set. Not I'm going to apply because I live in Silver Beach and I've got 5T of groundwater and I've got a well with 10 ft of water in it. I want to have an ADU. You look at the facts of the case. You say you guys don't you go you you don't clear the hurdle. Your property is one that clearly should be in the nearshore overlay district as opposed to one that clearly should not be. So that's the president I think you'll be setting if you approve this application. The the thing that I was talking about, Matt, was uh the the use variance answer sheet thing that you you spoke about um whatever the the financial can can you show that you cannot realize a reasonable return?

Um could you run through some of that stuff here with us? I just want to make sure that whatever whatever is is going to be covered is covered.

Yeah. the um we had said that she qualified for the ADU program which as previously stated there is an income threshold for that. So as long as you're below that threshold um so that speaks toward the afford the affordability crisis. I also note that the mission statement of CDLI invests in housing and economic aspirations of individuals and families by providing solutions that foster maintain vibrant, equitable and sustainable communities. That's directly from their website. um looking at Shelter Island specifically that the town's comprehensive plan developed in ' 84 highlighted again in the 2005 plan evaluation that I was part of and then the current draft from September of 23 highlights that uh in 2022 and after nonwaterfront sales prices were approximately 1.4 4 million with reduced year round availability for rentals. That creates another economic hardship that the ADU plus one on this specific property would help address that in response to the affordability issues, the town has ad has implemented the ADU plus1 program. Um and and then the other things that I had just mentioned about the reasonable return um being a clear um is it's difficult to quantify it in this specific instance. So the like in in um um the letter that was submitted, one of the things that they had said was that in order to show that there is no um clear environment or a clear economic issue that there should be a bonafideed effort to sell the property to show that you could have a financial return.

So those are our alternatives. You can sell the property and show that you can get a bonafide financial return. Yay. Somebody tears the house down, builds a 4500 uh you 4,500 ft six-bedroom house on it. Or we can say that the the all these other facts combined lead us to the conclusion that a reasonable financial return of maintaining the property, keeping the property, and her ownership doesn't exist. And this would help her to that end. Matt, sorry to put you in the hot seat again. I do want to go back to one of the points that Mr. Sudall was making regarding um having an environmental study done um and and you know what you've presented. Yes, you're you're a numbers guy. you do the distance and all that, but is there some sort of environmental study that that could be done to address the nearshore overlay and address your argument with the distances and how it will environmentally impact, you know, what the environmental impact would actually scientifically be. I think they're I think that would

well yeah I I think Lisa that that's something for perhaps a a town board to look at. I'm not saying I'm not saying an environmental study to address the nearshore should be moved. I'm saying to address what you're trying to do here. I can put these arguments and it basically it's putting the arguments I had on the screen in a narrative form. I can certainly do that and I can explain um in detail how the different well the well on site and the nearby wells and explain how they demonstrate what our depth to groundwater is and our thickness of groundwater lens is but I I understand that to that point though you're not an environmentalist.

No I'm not. But as a as a civil engineer, I do have a wide range experience um in hydrarology, in environmental science, in environmental engineering, in civil engineering, water supply, wastewater design, um all of those things I do have experience in. And as a professional engineer, that's that's part of what I do day in and day out. This permitting stuff, while fun, is a necessary part of that better portion of the job. Sure. Yeah. Um, okay. And it I understand what you're asking for. You're looking for something a little more concrete. Um, and and

and somebody with the environmental expertise. Yeah. Yeah. He had a good point that, you know, I'm going to present the application in the best light favorable to my client obviously, but that doesn't that doesn't discount the facts that are there. and I can put them in a way that not only the board but anybody out in um you know uh in the island and who's got access to the town website can see and digest and tear apart if you like agree with if you want to um you know

I mean if it's the it's going to be the same contents that you've already presented in your I don't think that's necessar that's not exactly what I'm looking for so I don't want you have to go through that exercise um um I was just kind of looking to substantiate from the environmental expert your civil engineering expertise. um I can reach out to a couple of environmental consultants and experts that I work with on a routine basis and see if I can bring them in on this and and I think is I think a big concern is the environment here and and I think you know a couple community members have expressed that and if there's there is some scientific evidence that we can

present that backs up your argument or doesn't back up your argument whatever they decide whatever they find you know it is yeah absolutely and then you can take that as as something to push you in put you in the right direction. Yeah. Um yeah, you know, if the board as a whole would like to see that, absolutely. I'd be more than happy to do that. It's I don't know what what what does everyone else I feel like I've got enough information, but I I you know, I can't speak for everyone else. I'm fine. I I just did have a question. Talk about precedent. Mhm. Of this property. And if this was were to be granted,

what would the ruling what what where where would your next argument for someone coming to you and saying, "Hey, Matt, I'd really like to do this, but I'm also in the assur." What in comparison to this property or the map that you showed us, what would your argument be?

I would do the exact same thing for them that I did for Lynn. And when we first started talking about this, I had this we had this conversation. I said, "Yeah, you're in the nearshore. you're not gonna, you know, this is not allowed in this area. And we had already done the sanitary design that had been done a few years before. So, I had a lot of the information on the site and on the general area. I've done sanitary design for many of the properties around her. So once we started compiling it and I started looking a little more in depth into what the nearshore code actually says and what its intent is and what the class what the the the requirements are to be classified as part of the nearshore overlay. It started to become very evident that she didn't check any of those boxes. So I would have that same conversation with that next person. And if they came to me and said, "You got you got it for Lynn. Let's see if we can do it for for me." I would start gathering up those five different pieces of information and if any one of them triggered a yes answer, then you've got a harder decision to make. If

it wouldn't be just you're 900 ft, so you're in

No, no, not at all. And that and that's where areas like Silver Beach are so important. Um, and again, I'm not picking on Silver Beach, but it's if you're in the middle at tennis court lane, say, and you're 7 800 feet from the shoreline, but you're very lowlying, you're surrounded by properties, you've got 12, 13, 14t of fresh water, and you've got a uh area that's known for saltwater intrusion, you're done before you even start. and you could be further away than Lynn's property and have all of these problems that hers don't the problems that she doesn't have. And so you would certainly be included in the nearshore overlay. And the same thing would be true for those properties I showed you on South Midway as you come around by Dickerson Creek. You know, those should certainly be on, you know, bordering Fresh Pond. Why they're not, I don't know. But if someone, you know, it I've done this on a few other applications where people have come to me for uh increases in building size or increases in density on sites that really don't support that kind of structure. And I know that some people are going to say that I'm just, you know, I'm going to go for whatever the project is, you know, brute force and ignorance. Let's move forward and try and improve everything. But that's not true. the uh we look at the projects. If they have a chance for damaging that person's property or the properties around them, we have to take us take a step back and see all right, how do we actually want to approach this? Is this a project that's worth moving forward on? If yes, we move forward. If it's not, how do we modify it so that we protect the property owner's interests and the neighboring properties owner interests? Because especially someone like Lynn, she's not looking to create a problem for herself or anybody else around. And so that's one of the things that we take into account.

Thank you. Yeah. Beautiful. Before I start to, you know, Lisa, so I I would say that um Matt, if you if you can rustle up something that might address Lisa's concerns, that would be great. Yeah, absolutely. Okay.

Thank you. Anyone else here like to speak? Anyone in Zoomland like to speak? No. Um, I would like to close the hearing and leave it open to written correspondence until May 13th. I'd like to get your submissions, Matt, by May 6th. So, as Mr. Jacobs requested, um, we could allow people to respond to those things.

Yeah. saying that was my fault. I apologize for the late middle of Sarah's report. I thought she was going to be here up until not too long ago. Um, so the late posting on the website, that was my fault. That wasn't and and so by May 6 and you can uh get something that might address Lisa's concerns here. I will do my absolute best. I can't promise for other people. I don't know what people's time frames are like, right? I'll do my best. And we need an updated site. Yeah, I can do that. Yeah, now you're here. So, can can I have a motion to close the hearing and keep it open to written correspondence to till 5? I'll make that a motion. Second. All in favor? I I

Okay. Um, we have don't have any other old business, right? Um, so can I have a motion to close the meeting? Make a motion. I'll second it. All in favor? Yeah. I I All right.