Committees - Regular Meeting

We will get started just to kick off. We are going to have a hard stop at 3 o'clock today. So, maybe the 1st thing that we should do is figure out when we would want to meet again. Just because we've got a lot here today and I don't get I'm going to get through everything. Okay. So calendars.

I would think maybe closer to, like, not such a. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. Yeah. Get it.

What if we, I mean, here's a kooky idea. Could we do it next week? It's like, what does everybody's Wednesdays look like? We have the CPF auditors in here. Okay. We can move them upstairs. So actually... I'm just going to throw something out. What about next week, Wednesday, tentatively at three o'clock?

That works for me. Sounds good.

Networks and we just check to make sure that I'm going after fireworks.

Oh, right. Yes. Just like, look, it is busy for us this time of year and just a lot. No, I know.

That's why I was like, let's just get it benchmark wise.

I would go after, you know, because then for me, it's going to be like the 15th or something like that. I understand. I understand. I could send somebody else. All right.

We could do it.

24th.

Yeah, let's do the 24th. 3 P. M. let's can we do like 2 P. M. again just so that way if we need like an hour and a half, I'm not running into keeping staff over.

Yeah, I have some stuff, but I will move it. So 230 to 4 P. M. 230 to 4 P. M. and I'll do 3230. Okay. Yeah.

Well, 2, I'll have a man to send out a.

I mean, 2, 30 would be easier for me if that's possible and I just don't have to move to 2 to 4. yes. Okay.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking an hour and a half. I want to have a meeting and it doesn't keep after an hour and a half where it's just like, what are we even talking about? Yeah. And then it won't keep the staff over. But 230, you said the auditors upstairs for the afternoon. Okay. Okay, good. Okay. Did everyone have a chance to review the meeting summary?

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

And whether there were any corrections or changes, comments. I did have a question just because I don't want to get to it today for you, Chief. The East End Police Chiefs are attempting to establish better communications.

We have a meeting and I can tell you that it's a meeting with Homeland Security representatives on July 8th.

Okay, great.

That's wonderful. But that's not the minute. So you make an emotional.

I was, I just, you know, 1st, we'll accept the minutes. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

No, it's sorry. I didn't mean to. There was an amendment.

No, I just follow up. I jumped ahead. Okay. Is that meeting to talk specifically about this proposal or just a meeting and nothing to do with this law?

It's a meeting to talk about. If they make if they're in a community to find out if we can get from them to to local law enforcement who they've taken why they've taken them and where they're taking them to. On our focus is to have better launch communication with family members and others in public office so that we're not operating so blind.

So that's going to be what you're talking about with.

That will be the crux of the of the of the part of the conversation yep.

And just to sort of add on to that, I listened in on South Old Town's work session yesterday afternoon and because Senator Palumbo and Assemblyman Schiavone were there and in the governor's bill, there's going to be establishing an immigration trust office. Um, so that people like family members can file complaints within the community, or I think just get more information. So that will be forthcoming. Like, I even tried to see if there was anything available about it right now. I couldn't find anything. Yeah, so the state is trying to do something as well.

But that's also proposed, right? Right.

I think it was within the budget. So that itself might have been passed. There is proposed legislation, which is probably still sitting in my printer. With respect to. A Senate bill that would prohibit and regulate the. The discovery disclosure of immigration status, but that's still a committee Senate. And I don't think there's going to be any further work on it this year, because they don't have anything scheduled to reconvene or sessions. But at least there's different things happening. That's interesting about the trust thing. So, yes, interesting. Yeah. And it was funny because I'm not even sure, like, I load in my notes and I think 1 of their board numbers is kind of like, wait, so this is called. And so I had written down. Immigration trust office.

Okay. Amber, was there any other discussion about the task force or then making a decision?

At the state level or?

No, in Southhold.

I only stayed on for what was new in like what happened with the most recent budget bill and the different things because there's there were secret changes that got passed there was some there were public safety New York for all that's what's being worked on in the senate and then I think there's a few things, but I still haven't seen a good summary. ICE being denied access in public areas, churches, child care, senior centers, things like that. And also no 287 agreements for police. But again, it wasn't 100% clear from the conversation what is passed in the budget bill, because they will throw things into the budget bill, and what is being worked on in this New York for all.

And you're again, you're talking about at the state level at the state level. Yes. Okay.

And then it's simple to last I'd heard is the table still in some committee as well. And I don't believe like us. Yeah. Except I don't believe their meetings are public. I think they're. Private meetings, so it's hard to know exactly what they've been discussing.

Chiltern's always good about transparency. Contrary to what some of the public thinks, we are very transparent.

Okay, so then I thought the next thing, Chief, you had pulled together this section by section comparison and I thought maybe the best was for you to walk us through it.

I thought it was relatively self explanatory where I tried to incorporate our policy and some of the legislative intent and tried to highlight those areas that We have current practice, and then how we, how we operate within within those practices.

So, I thought from walking us through is because this is a public forum for so the public can get, you know, from here in more detail what our policy police policies are and how they pertain to the proposed legislation.

So the first one, you know, in looking at section one of the legislation, and I'm just going off of this, you know, to promote public safety, community trust is important, maintain peace and good order, and ensure transparency, right? So we, I look to our policies that reflect that, and, you know, where we have policy and immigration violations, which you have a copy of, bias-based policing, community relations, you know, and again, but down to it specifically policy 414, which is our immigration violations, specifically provides the police department is committed to equal enforcement, right? We We don't care what your immigration status is. We want you to feel comfortable coming to us and working with us. And we recognize, even in our core values, the dignity of all people and that comfort level is really important to us. 401 reinforces the Department's commitment to bias-free policing and equal treatment under law. And 439 promotes positive police community relationships. And it's kind of part of what we're doing here, part of the other things that we do within the community. It's really important for us to be a part of the community and be interwoven into the community. So I think those policies, you know, when you looked at the proposed legislations and some of the findings, it really, you know, those three policies really hit home there. And operationally, if you look at that, the fundamental principles identified in the legislative findings are already incorporated into our existing department policies and day-to-day operational practices. And just as we were starting the meeting, for me, I had said, and I can't remember if it was on the camera or off the camera, but I wanted to the group to know, look, we have extensive policy. It's over a thousand pages, our policy, but how we practice the policy is really, really important to me as the chief of the department. So if you think about us and the way our police department's interwoven into the community, I think we do practice what we preach, so to speak, and we wanna do that and to continue to do that. So I thought that the operational assessment was really, really good in that first part. um federal authority recognition and uh preemption avoidance right so that that part was to acknowledge that uh the federal government authority over immigration enforcement while recognizing the town's authority to protect public safety through its police powers right and again we come back to probably one of the uh policies that is going to drive a lot of a lot of what i'm talking about where we have things in place is that um 414 policy which is immigration violations and... Law enforcement authority, that 100 just gives us our basic authority to be law enforcement officers, right? So the police department has long recognized that civil immigration enforcement is a federal responsibility and not a local responsibility, and we're thankful for that. The department policy establishes the appropriate role of local law enforcement, and it shows officers operate within their lawful authority. while complying with applicable federal and state law. And current department policy already reflects the principles contained in this section. So I felt pretty comfortable with that also. Definitions, a lot of the definitions in the policy, I don't have to go too far there, were really just restated when you look at the legislation. And you can look at our operational assessment on that. I don't really have to go too deep into that. The definitions contained in these sections do not identify any operational gap requiring additional local legislation, right? So the definitions, look, I understand the legislative intent bias, they wanted to redefine, but their definitions are already there in so many areas.

Um, sorry, I just want to sucker. They're looking to redefine. Things or no, it's just, they're just no, no, no.

I think they're really restate. I think the definitions in the proposal legislation are really stating.

What's already existing policy. Okay. Just want to. Yep. Yep.

Um, we write legislation. Oftentimes we do have to put definitions just to make sure this is the definition we're thinking about. So I'm familiar. Yeah. Yeah.

Section 4 was the immigration enforcement activity reporting requirements, right? And the intent of the legislation I had to establish reporting requirements following immigration enforcement operation and create a community task force to review such matters, which kind of done some of that creation of this task force. But we, you know. You know direct communication between the police department and town leadership town board oversight again. Looking at the police commission and their role of that we we you know public safety task force, you know again established by the board and existing administrative reporting procedures, so our current practice really. um we have routine communications um with the town board in so many capacities um I think the two members of the board will can highlight pretty easily that when something significant is going on I I guess the last thing and that I would publicly say that I communicated pretty fairly with the board was was the drowning we had off a weird speech right so that when we have something you know if there's a major fire or a major event that goes on to in the community i try to make sure that the board's informed right so and and that in a small department's really critical if i'm if i'm not on duty i make sure my officers do the same i i don't want to hear at at a local establishment that you know something significant has happened and i'm blindsided by something and and i try to carry that to some degree with the board right even on the department head i try to push that out so i can tell you that if immigration was in the community that the town board would know and and and we're small like our our ability to communicate rather quickly is this is pretty easy when we're not a big behemoth government that that um is saddled by community communication issues it's not to say that we don't have problems sometimes but that's going to go on whether there's codified issues in the town code or whether we keep it in policy. So, again, You know, I thought I thought we're really kind of redundant. The town board already directs oversight over the police. Police department and their operation as police commission, and this public safety task force is a great forum for increasing the discussion. So I'm kind of highlighting that. So, and at the end, it's, it's similar to what I just said, our operational assessment is what I had described to you. That we have transparency, accountability, communication, you know, all those things to me exist.

I think, I mean, absolutely. I think the thing I've been trying to, like, think about with the public safety task force is. How it would work in a in a Community this small like you know what I mean like how that would like live just like i'm just like thinking about how it's imagined in the legislation and then how it would like actually.

work would it be you know what i'm just if we decided to do it or not but you know what i mean i'm just trying to like and i didn't know if anybody else if you look at the legislation that was already passed in east hampton both village and town i think it was the town um that has a very specific list of who it is yeah on there and yeah i'm just i didn't print it up so i haven't Very small on my phone. Oh, yeah, I mean, here it is a representative from a school district with the town, a representative from the local clergy to representatives from the local medical field.

They're representative.

So sorry, I guess let me restate. I guess what I'm wondering is, is like, would they be a regular meeting committee? Would they, you know what I mean? Like, how would the. I know that it's imagined this. I'm trying to think about how it would work. I like all the different folks that they've imagined that would get pulled in. If you're going to do something like this, like, okay. On a task force, you're talking. Yeah. One of the things I was thinking about, if you were going to do a task force, I agree. Isn't this a task force? If you do the legislation, I'm just trying to think of, like, if you do the legislation, right? And you bring in these folks. Are they meeting as needed? Are they meeting regularly? I think that's kind of as needed as needed as needed as needed to address the concerns of the community.

So that's when it would come in. Okay.

I don't think would be a regular, maybe to just go over the guidelines and responsibilities.

I missed that. Thank you.

I would imagine that.

Sorry that was, I should have been clear and yeah.

Yeah, do you want to finish your summary? I don't care.

I'll go. I'll go. I have no, no agenda to go. Yeah, I should say, finish your summary.

Yes. Yes. Um.

Okay, federal immigration enforcement on town property and, you know, our policies that govern that, and that really is going to come down to search and seizure. And if you look at our current practice, the department members already operate within constitutional requirements, governing warrants, consent searches, lawful entry, and search and seizure. So, these standards are applied regardless of whether an investigation involves local state or federal law enforcement agencies like we we are bound by search and seizure laws and and they're really important to us because it's a constitutional uh right so so i would say that those existing constitutional requirements department policy already provide operational guidelines in these areas i think not to go out i i do think east hampton town might have dropped this from there I recall correctly, they might have dropped that from their portion, but the village might have left it left it in concerns about operating on. Town town property but you'll you'll have to read the GS whatever or another step. No, no, no. That's an agreement with having an agreement with them to operate. I think that that's where that was going with their operation on town property. Would the town board want to say that they can't operate on town property? That was the legislative intent. Right. But us operationally, we, you know, regardless of where we're, even if we're on town property, we can't just go into Amber's office and go into her desk. You know what I mean? So search and seizure is huge for us. I mean, it's a huge part of what we do every day. And we're not going to, you know, we have to protect search and seizure laws and we have to operate under those laws.

So.

um identification I I think this was uh I think the big thing early on it seems like it's kind of softened a little a little bit um you know we we don't have what you know just speaking outside of my notes we don't have a real in in the history of the police form of people that all right uh false identifying themselves as police officers like it it Well, it doesn't exist almost. Maybe once or twice have we had somebody that was in possession of police equipment and could have used that to be falsely identified. But we just don't really have those issues in general if you look at the context of law. I don't know how that part got into the legislation, that they were concerned that people were misrepresenting themselves as ICE agents. police have the right to ask to ask some questions they have not been providing right that they have right all right so i just for us that that people are going to dress up as ice and come here and identify themselves as ice and take somebody away without us being involved i just don't see that see that and they softened this section considered completely softened that from the very first draft so they started to look at it yep So I think they were looking at training for it and that. But I think that section has got largely softened because I think there was a lot of probably pushback from law enforcement on that part. It's just not, it's just not really an issue. I don't know where maybe that has gone on in other parts of the country for safety purposes, right?

To have identification with a mass person. No matter.

All right. Yeah. And I think at least my understanding was just like, the concern was maybe.

not some with some of the folks working with immigration or like it was not identified and i was actually sent a video from somebody who was in the north ferry line of somebody who was masked did not you know obviously covered their face and they were recording uh people on the ferry line and i don't think they were showing any identification you know it was only a week or so after um the the um The ice rates have happened in Greenport, so I think it's, you know, it hasn't ever happened. It sounds like it's never happened. And is it plausible? Maybe not. But I mean, it sounds like that is a concern that people do have.

What I would tell you is if that was going on here, I guarantee we're going to get a call on that and we're going to go down there and find out who the person is. That's already we do it. You know, I got a text from a school teacher today that somebody is walking down the street and looks suspicious, like, OK, we follow up on that. OK, who are you? What's going on? And sometimes it can can be concerning. And sometimes I feel like they're stretching the boundaries of people's rights to privacy. And that's a difficult balance sometimes.

That's what I was going to ask is that do you even have the legal authority to do that?

They have to be, you know, it's the totality of the circumstance, right? Just because they're walking down the road, we might not do anything. Now, you know, looking into cars or looking into houses or going up into yards, you know, you could locally video people. And photograph as much as you want. We can't change that. In fact, we have policy that I didn't give you that gives the public the right to video us in our operations. We can't take those from people, right? They have that lawful authority. It goes both ways. We're just talking it through.

But I guess in this instance, this person was actually masked. So there was a little bit more like nefarious. Like this person is videoing people wanting to catch them on video or picture, whatever it was, but wasn't. But we're talking about identification. That person was masked.

So look, and we would go down and look at the totality of the thing that they're doing. We might ask them for ID. Who are you? Where do you work? And I have zero doubt they're going to provide us with identification. But anyways, but it is, and in here operationally, you know, it's a part of what we do all the time. And that's really what I was trying to highlight. In that section enforcement again, you know, it comes, you know, comes back to what. What our authority is and where we're aligned. Right? So. You know, again, to authorize judicial enforcement of the local law by the town attorney and create a private right of action permitting lawsuits by taxpayers or agreed persons. I just, you know, to me speaking personally, I just thought it was. a little bit off center to tell people that they can already sue us. We don't need a section in code to say that you can sue us or go after us if you feel aggrieved. That exists in everything. I mean, the town is litigated all the time and frequently. I don't know of another piece of our legislation in town code that says if you feel you're aggrieved, you know, you have the right to legal action. Of course they have the right to legal action. But I think, I thought that was where that was going. You know, Again, if you want to come back to not need for it existing, you know, existing practices, right? Police Department, Access Police Commission, we have department supervision, we have policy, we have accreditation. You know, unlike other department policies adopted, adoption of local legislation would also create additional legal enforcement mechanisms, including potential for private litigation on taxpayers or persons alleging violations, right? We operate within a comprehensive framework of accountability and oversight. The enforcement provision contained in this proposed legislation existing beyond existing policy and create additional legal exposure for the town that it does not presently exist under the department policy, right? Are there any questions about that? I kind of, I jumped around a little bit on that because it's section 7 and I should go back to it just to refresh my memory to make sure. But I'm pretty sure that was the part where they were talking about the right to litigate your town.

That's section 7. I'm correct. Yep.

Yep. Yep. Okay. um instruction um intent of the legislation to clarify that nothing in the local law restricts cooperation with federal agencies when required by law 414 again i've talked about that before department policy also provides that officers comply with mandatory legal obligations while recognizing the distinction between local police responsibility and federal immigration enforcement um you know I can tell you there's times where we have to work with our federal partners. I wouldn't want this board or any other board to curtail that part of it. We had a rape allegation last year where the subject was fleeing to, and this is a public record, was trying to leave the country within 24 hours and was going to JFK. We called Homeland Security. They provided, I would say, 12 enforcement people to meet us at JFK to cover that airport so that somebody who allegedly raped a person on the island was gotten before they left the country. We have to work with our federal partners, whether it's the FBI, the Secret Service was on the island. I don't want one side of federal restrictions to impact other criminal Randall Difuntorum, No events that occur and I don't I don't think that anybody anybody wants that like our ability to work and manage that line. Randall Difuntorum, But we want to have that distinction of not doing civil immigration, I mean i've highlighted that at several town board meetings and that's really, really important to us, but, but we also don't want to limit our ability to work with our federal partners when when needed. Randall Difuntorum, Oh. Servability and an effective date. I mean, really that that wasn't applicable to us sections 9 and 10 and then overall, I just tried to give you a feel for. Our overall policies, I copied you on the policies. I can share them with Julie was on on on zoom saying that. What we have in policy and practice is largely in place. I think that there's real merit to having a task force. There's merit to discussing this. I also do feel that a lot of it is the role of the police commission and the police commission can all the police department at public meetings whenever they want. So some of that is redundant. I didn't mind, like, just to go back to what we were talking about in East Hampton Town, I thought that the broader concept of having uh church and other community leaders and a couple times a year get together hey look how can the police operation be better what can we do to be better is are there ways that we can meet community needs better but but then i started reflecting back well we have a the health and wellness group you know so that that does a little bit of that there's other groups that kind of fill that void to a degree and we would have to be blind or deaf not to hear what's going on and so it comes back to being in a small town the the lines of authority aren't so layered that you can't go right to the top on any given day whether it's Amber myself the highway superintendent I mean I'm out in the community all the time. People come up to me with their deepest problems, whether it's large or small. So we are open and we do listen. But I didn't think it was a terrible idea to have as needed, like you had suggested, and have a broader base that might include the school and other community leaders to say, look, it's worth it for us to sit down a couple of times a year and listen. i can tell you from from other departments and reading what i do that that is a tremendous tool for us when something doesn't go quite right that you know the officers involved hey look that wasn't their intent we know these guys we know how they operate and having those relationships are really important so um with our Church groups with the school with our other seniors and community groups. I mean, we try to do workshops and various times fraud. We're over to senior center. So there's a lot of ways to reach out on shelter Allen. So, I mean, I was culminating. I don't want anybody to think for a 2nd, that, um. We're against the legislation. What I'm really saying is that we support it. By already having it in place or the practices already in place. Can we do better yet? Are there some policies that maybe we could tweak a little bit to make better or make stronger? Maybe on the communication side, maybe laying out a few direct lines. fine but i just thought in general the substance of what is there is all is already in place and even when i looked at uh east hampton village and towns and and i think the towns is largely scaled back from the villages um even if you uh as a tool if you put those two plans in ai and and asked it what the differences were they'll say that towns is large largely scaled back from from from what the village from what the village had um and i i you know publicly if this goes we put these recordings up right i don't i'm not trying to speak on behalf of the town of the village and i'm not trying to say that one is good and one is bad in any way because they both have policies similar similar to ours and but but i would say that um when i look at them and if i were to be fair with them that that they're a little bit different in some ways and and that the town is scaled back, probably because the town has certain mechanisms already in place and it was unnecessary.

So it was also at the timing to the village, the village jumped on it sooner. So we're working with an earlier draft. And so I think they adopted what was, which was in place, you know, being recommended at the time, whereas East Hampton had more time to get the later OLA draft incorporated as well as I think they had some of these.

And I haven't heard much from South Hampton town or Rivad town. So, but anyways, but the message to the public from me is really, Hey, look, We're always going to treat everybody fairly. We're going to do our best to do that. And that we have a lot, a lot of a lot of this in place and it's nothing, it's nothing new to our operation. So, and I don't, I don't, you know, I want people to see that.

I don't think necessarily that the intent of the first legislation is to make people feel. Um, like, people being treated fairly, it's more about putting. Things in place and protocols in place so that people feel. Like, they understand what the police response would be, or what our community response would be if I swear to come and engage in any of the operations that we've seen happen. in their neighboring areas or in around the country. So I think it has more to do with having protocol in place that the town can refer to if there was an event where immigration to come and start doing some of these ICE operations. So I think this is great. I really appreciate all this. And I have to trust that all of this is covered under the policy because I'm not a lawyer and I'm not a lawyer. The only thing that I do see that I think could be, like, if we were to go the policy route and not go with the legislation route, Section 4, there's no, there's no place in which you can point from a policy perspective that this is already happening in the town. So, I think if we do go the policy route, this is an opportunity. For us to get clear on exactly what the procedure should be. I'm really glad to hear that the police department communicates with the town board and that all of that is already being done. But I think to be able to say. This is exactly what we would do in the event of. So that there is a clear protocol and and and hopefully it could be as closely. paired to what is proposed in the legislation as we can. So that was just my thought is that section 4, there seems to be an opportunity there to actually have something in place as opposed to just resting on the reassurance that there's good communication between the police department and the town. And, but that's that's all if we went with with just leaning on policy, but I do think that there is. Maybe gina wants to speak to this I don't know but. My understanding of it is that if we were to adopt this it doesn't do any harm that's my understanding of it doesn't do any harm to the to the town to adopt this it simply makes clear what we. What shelter and how shelter I would respond in the event that ice were here and engaging in operations that that have happened in neighboring towns. So. The idea behind it is to basically lessen the anxiety that people are experiencing, because that's the other thing about this is, you know, we, we, I think somebody asked the last time when we met. Why and why legislation and I think my understanding and again, I'm not a lawyer. But my understanding of it is that there is heightened anxiety in portions of the population that this proposed legislation attempts to lessen because it's clear and it shows exactly how we would respond in the event. But I'm not saying that we necessarily have to do that and that maybe it could be addressed by policy. But that's really the overarching goal, I think, is to be clear and to help lessen anxiety and fear and ambiguity on what Shilto Brown would do and how we would respond to that event, which hopefully would never happen. This would also be like, hopefully it never happens. We never have to use this, but just in case.

I think we're talking about just I want to also mention to Jimmy, I think no doubt the police is doing due diligence and keeping this community safe and in every single way. But it's like waiting for the hurricane to come and not being prepared because we haven't had the unprecedented. invasion of federal agents here, as we have had seen in Riverhead and Southampton and Greenport, you know, very close to us. So we truly want to know how to prepare for that. I think having, and we're here to decide whether policy or law, um to clearly define the roles of the police the town board and the task force um that people know exactly what the responsibilities are and what's there so that piece of the police about assessing what happens in case there is a raid reporting back within 24 hours to the supervisor town board which then turns back 24 hours to the task force is clearly not In your policy, I think that this is not this in no way a law that interferes with federal immigration operations at all. That's not the purpose of this. I think in that news day article, we both agreed that that 1st. Paragraph was actually not true that they wrote about East Hampton saying that please for not cooperating. No, that's not the purpose of the law. The law is to really make sure that we clarify roles and especially clarify the police what will happen in case of a raid and not just the regular day-to-day happenings of pulling someone over and checking their, you know, or not being able to check their immigration status. It's about what happens if we get a raid on Shelter Island and being fully prepared. So it would be about assessing, right? Documenting all of the police, I don't know how much interference that they wouldn't have interference, right? If there was even if there was safety rule, and then, you know, we talked about just also what happens in these situations that there's chaos, right? Not just with coming to get there's chaos. We know children, we're not going to school. People are not going to the doctor. People are not reporting because they, they're, they're frightened. Um, so those are the things that the law is addressing and I think the town did soften and I think the town did do a good job. East Hampton town. I thought about taking the most important things that this unprecedented what's happening now. They did put a limit on the time that the law was there and it expires on the 29th. 229, I believe, or is up for review. I mean, that's something we could also look at, you know, putting in something in effect, but. And I also think there's a piece about solidarity for East End towns coming together and supporting each other in these times that again, it was clearly stated just in both the law about that this is just unprecedented what's happening. And we don't wanna wait until it happens here.

Just to backtrack just a step though, If she told me at this meeting, chief, I want to report if they're on the island. It's done.

Yeah.

Right. So it's not, you know, I think we're making to me levels. That may quite frankly be unnecessary. And when you look at. which he's going to get, even in these reports, they're going to get a police report that says, you know, ICE agents were at 123 Broadway, and there were three ICE officers there. That might be all. And so within 24 hours, that goes to the task force. Okay. But I just, and that's where I guess I'm missing the, there's a disconnect for me in that regard. Like, I don't know what you think. Just like when I look at this, like, what do they think this report's going to say? Like, I should give you some copies of all police reports so you can see.

What if there was confrontation, physical confrontation? No, no, no. There would be a report about what... No, no, no.

I would tell you that we're probably generating that report anyways, because we're probably going to get a call on it anyways. So it's not... But that... Like to me, if the largest part of this was the reporting, it's easy to adjust in policy. That part of it to me is really relatively simple. And probably in the 414 policy, in that immigration, we can put a reporting of communications. But look, I'm not trying to jump ahead.

If it can be addressed in policy, I think that that is...

But I just try to play out the next down the line like, Okay, so what does that report do?

It's clarification to people who are who want to know, because so, for my understanding of what happened in report was when people asked for information, there was some, they weren't being completely forthright with information about the events. And what was that? What was taking place?

I'm going to agree with you because where I'm going with an agreement is. These timelines, like to me, the timeline is ridiculous. 24 hours. Can you imagine me in a family and not know the 24 hours? like to me that's where like this i'm not trying to knock any of it and then another 24 hours to think like well that's to go from you to here i know but when you look at it like like the timeliness of that is great in all world this is slow in in today's world it's slow so listen the faster the better for sure you also want to get it right but then again like like you know liz liz and i had an You know, or public comment or thing like, okay, when you get that information, what are you doing with it? I question us as a town, make sure we're putting out factual information. There's a lot to that. We can't put out this information. So maybe that there's all those, all those things involved. in it so um but i think i i want to be pressed like the the huge thing for me is knowing you know who you know uh why they took him and where they took him fast i think it's only fair yeah yeah and i think and i think even if

You know, even with, like, the green, like, going back to the green part situation, like, we didn't have all of the information, but we did have some of it. And so thinking about in a situation, so let's say that it doesn't go, you know what I mean? And then so you just know, I don't know. We got a report. There were ice agents. 3 people were thick and that's like, all we know. Right. But I think even that, even if it's unsatisfactory, even after, like, let's say, our 24 hours. But if just being able to go back to the community with what we know or even what we don't know, I think in that vacuum, I think can be. Because if someone's saying, oh, 10 people were taken, it's like, okay, well, they said, it's definitely three. Or even whatever that is, because I don't know.

And that was hard information to get. You and I spoke like In the morning on 730 and like, so some of the calls I was getting is they're on shelter island and it's like, no, they're not on child talent. Right? Well, what are they doing in green points? Like, I don't know, because it's not our town. And so. Like, I have to wait for chief to talk to in order and then, of course.

I was on the phone with the seller, which I think is why maybe the 24 hours is in there because there is so much information that you could get that you might get wrong. The other piece of this, and I will Gina and I did speak to whenever friends recently after our last meeting, just to get some just to get clarification from her about what the intent was behind drafting this legislation. And one of the things she did mention was securing thoroughfares, for example. Let's take a real example on Schultz Island. Say they are stopping people at one of the ferries. ensuring like the police being able to ensure safe passage for anybody who isn't being stopped by ice but is still having to like deal with this like whatever might be going on and we don't know maybe it's just you know a not a traffic sign i don't know exactly know how it would go down but but ensuring safe passage ensuring that people can get through to if they have to go to the hospital you know because the fair because we don't have um we don't have a hospital but we do have a ferry that is the is how we use you know how we get to the hospital so that was one of the things that she was saying the lot does um how does it ensure safe passage um look i'm not trying to catch you but i'm just trying to see which section ensures safe passage i don't i don't know if it

think in that reporting piece about assessing the situation.

And yeah, I think I think what that's right. So to be to be present, and, and then to be able to assess the situation and where needed, if needed, helping to, to that's our role, whether without this law, like, if North Ferry is getting jammed up, and ambulance can't get on,

Man, that's one of our primary roles. I mean, whether this law was ever in existence or not. So, look, I know Minerva well, and her heart is totally in the right spot. I'm not discounting what she's saying, and she's not here to speak to it, but I, you know... Maybe it's hard to find every section that covers these little things, but I do think that we have it for the most part, but I'm not opposed in any way to tuning up some of the things that we have in place. And or if you wanted to adopt some version into code, I think Sometimes the code can be harder to manage and making change. But, you know, I think we keep talking about it.

It's also the fallout of what happens. For example, if a father gets picked up and he's going to pick up his child from school, that there's something, the system's in place. You know what I mean?

I don't know that this does that.

Creating a task force that would then look at the situation, make sure that things are placed. If there was somebody from the school that was on the task force, that would also say, this is the procedure then that would happen. I'm sure that the school probably has something that they've at least talked about the board, what happens if, right?

Yeah, right.

But do we know?

That's the question.

Do you know if there is anything?

I don't know what they have in there. So I've had conversations with them, though, and what's officially in place and what's unofficially in place.

Right. So maybe that's... See, from my perspective, what I think that this is an opportunity to do, whether we go with the codification or if we go with policy, is to clarify the procedure and to... just know what exactly shelter island would do and how we would respond in the event that a nice action or a nice operation is is happening um and having those stakeholders like having uh somebody from the school um having a clergy maybe it doesn't have to be everybody because i know we're a much smaller community than other communities but having and again who knows I just don't think that, like, this task force is the task force that they were talking about. Oh, yeah. Yeah. This is not that.

So, yeah, we could set up the, the task force. There would have been more steps that have taken us longer to get together. I do know in talking to other supervisors that some schools do have, like, they've got their, like, they know exactly what they're going to do. If there's a nice enforcement activity, and that is something that they don't want to share publicly. because that could then be picked up by ICE enforcement to say, okay, we know.

But do we know if that's being communicated to families so that they feel safe?

I think, I mean, I think that even, you know, and I think this is one of those things of just like, even if they're, Even if you don't have all the information, it's like one of those things of just like, okay, the school has its own procedure. And so then what would happen was, is, you know, you would find out 24 hours. Oh, you know, or just like if it was ice or something else that just like, oh, for some reason,

A parent was detained, like, I'm sure that there is just policy rental policy with dealing with juveniles that if a parent was detained and the child didn't have a guardian or somebody who acts as local guardian. Anyways, I can't release them to an unknown. They would retain until.

Yeah, but I mean, I know that it's, but I think what I've seen is, is like, there's, there's probably just a policy at the school of just even on that broad strokes. It's like, something happens to a parent. What do we do? They are detained. The child is at school. Like, I'm sure that there's like, you know, page X of the manual. It's like, the other thing, whatever. Right? I'll get in the car accident. And I think and I think 1 of the, the. all these things exist separately. And, you know, and you've just done, this is like such an amazing job of just kind of going through and pointing us at everything. But I think what the opportunity here is, is like you said, either in policy or in legislation, is weaving all those things together so that community members can put the pieces together. Okay, no, it's X, then Y, you know, like then it would kick over to that. And I don't necessarily think this community does such a good job at taking care of each other, but just even putting it together so that people could understand how it would, how it would work. If, you know, something happens to get, there's a report here. If a child was involved, then X would happen. And just kind of like painting that whole picture, because like, as you said, Vicky is like, one of the things about it is it's to provide clarification and relieve anxiety. And it seems like almost all of these things exist, but if they're, In the policy, which, you know, maybe not everyone's going through, like, the 1000 page thing, or it's somewhere in the school policy, or, you know, it's buried in all these. Places that maybe your regular resident isn't going to be able to Nancy drew together. Like, our opportunity is to bring that information together in whatever format that we think is.

And that's not helpful for that. I mean, there's so many part of it. Yeah, that's more like a community format. But, but, like you said, that could be. You know, a parent gets in an accident on the, what are we doing? Like, Suffolk, P. D. would notify us. We notify the school and the school would be local until a family, a relative took, like, like, those things. are in place, does the community need that, go to a place and look at policy for that? Do we need to guide it?

I think that, yes, I think that in certain instances, there is anxiety, especially among our Latino immigrant demographic.

What happened to my child? No, no, I didn't say that. Yeah, I'm in agreement.

I will tell you that, like, I mean, just put three kids to school. Like I actually am unsure till you told me of like exactly how that would go down. So I'm sure that there's other parents like, you know, that probably have that same question. And it's not like I said, you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

That's what I'm saying. Like you think because we put that step on a piece of paper that a year from now, everybody's going to know it. No, but I think what I mean, it's just I just like, you know, you've worked with parents in the school.

Parents, teachers, I just everybody is informed.

We are informed already. We do those things.

Like the average public about what would happen. I think most people would not be able to tell you what the role is. If there was, again, not just a police officer in an average pulling somebody over, if there was a federal raid, ICE comes to Shelter Island and, you know. An operation, just an ICE. An operation on ICE.

Yeah, raid is a strong word.

I don't think that if you ask the average person or even members of the town board exactly what would happen. I did get a chance to call the supervisor's office in East Hampton and their purpose was, it was about public safety, a law in place specifically for public safety and to identify the roles of the town board, the police and the task force. That was essentially the driving purpose of it. because so many of the things are covered with our police department doing an amazing job of keeping us safe. We live in a small town, but we can't just throw that in the ring. We live in a small town, you're going to know. That's kind of putting it a little unsure. We have some language differences. We've got some things going on that we want everybody to be informed about what would, we don't wanna wait until it happens, right? We wanna know exactly what our rights are, what the police are gonna do. I think most people would think, I asked some police officers like what, You know, a little not clear, you know, what is your role? What if somebody was being harmed? Is your role to interfere? I don't know what it is.

No, it all depends on a circumstance. I mean, it's, it's, it's, that's a really broad question.

It's unclear.

So it's a piece that we, like, in connection with law enforcement and public safety, we have control of that, like the school, what they're going to do. We don't have control over there until we, like, come up with a joint task force that school, you know, right.

and even at that like i'm not suggesting that i would want to know what the school's response is that's fine but knowing that in in this uh for the purposes of of what this legislation is trying to achieve knowing that the school is one of the stakeholders that is is i'm sure they're already part of the conversation but knowing that they are like directly involved with the town and the police department in terms of what would happen in response to so

I also want to be mindful of the time. Yes, I was going to say, yeah, I feel like this is like, such a great grounding. In here, and so it feels like next time we really need to kind of think about for next directionally where.

We do have an author by, um, uh, John James Henderson, who I believe is government relations and public from government outreach and. public relations, or OLA, who would be willing to come either to this room or if we wanted to invite you.

That would be great. Because I am not a legal expert. I would just want to know if we were to go with policy versus legislation, are we covered? Do we still achieve the same? Are we accomplishing what we wanted? Are we still accomplishing what we wanted? Yes.

Okay, I will see if we should clarify what we want. Well, I think I think the idea of like, just in general, more generalized than law policy.

right what would i think that's the goal what are we hoping to accomplish with this task right just just looking at the legislation that's our only ultimately we're going to decide whether or not we are going to have a recommendation yeah like are we going to if we're going to go back to the town board and say hey we want to do the legislation hey we want to do we want to do some policy tweaks i mean i don't know maybe we want to do a third thing i want Right? But I think that the items that we want to address is having the public understand all, like, how all these things come together. And then I think the other thing that we've really identified is communication, like, clarity on, like, how communication would work. And then I also, the other thing that I That I hear in here is, is like, thinking about the task force that's imagined in the legislation. Is that like, is that something we want to do? How would it look on Shelter Island? How would it work? And if we, for some reason, didn't do the legislation, how would we do that? You know what I mean?

Like, how would that work? And clarifying the process, like, identifying and clarifying what the process would be in the event that ICE is engaging in an operation on Shelter Island.

Well said.

but just so if you go back to the legislative process, it's pretty straightforward. If the police are aware, they notify the supervisor, the supervisor notifies the town board, and then what? We don't need a whole lot. We'll do that today. Simplify it.

It also becomes public when it goes to the town.

Right, so when it goes to the town board, and the time frames are 48 hours before it goes public?

Yeah, whatever it's going to be, whatever you decide, but also this task force is making decisions or looking at. Okay, this is a situation that happened. How best can we keep our community safe? Where do we need to?

And that's what I'm also trying to do with this conversation that I'm having now is. A little bit like it sounds to me and listening to the two community reps say that. The public information part is is huge. Like, that's the primary thing that you're looking for for the most part. Right? And then the task force might be 2nd to that. Am I misreading that?

Public information in that we have a, that there's a process and protocol in place. Like, I understand that there's something that you already do, but it's specifically. Oh, I look at their steps.

There's 4 steps in this.

Yeah.

Take them take them verbatim.

Okay, fine. So if we were to take it verbatim, like, so being able to communicate that to the community, that that's exactly what we would do in the event of a nice operation, and then identifying a task force that works for our community that makes sense for us, that means, I'm just trying to funnel a little, a little bit, I think it's, I can be helpful to do that.

Definitely. Um, I think the documentation, documentation and reporting is a really important

And then I would ask you to, for homework kind of, think about what we do once we have the information. Because the legislation doesn't cover that. Because it just says, oh, the police are going to tell the town supervisor. Great. Town supervisor is going to tell the town board.

Great. And that's the part where I feel like that you know, and then what's the, does the task force say something? Because we had kind of talked about, and I'm super mindful of the time. What that looks like. And what is it, and also in such a small community, what does releasing that information mean? Do we check in with the task force? If there was, to your point, imagining a situation, God forbid we were to have an action, if there were children involved, would you pass back the names? You know what I mean? Those are the things that we would need to figure out how you figure them out, right?

take you know the freedom of information law and rights to privacy are huge you know if we give john jones was taken by the task force because he uh committed it by ice thank you

It's quite a task force.

Yeah, it's quite a task force. Taken by ICE for an assault that he did in, you know, in a South American country, right? And he's got two kids in the school. And do we want to, you know, how far public is that facing, you know? So, and then we're bound by freedom of information laws, rights and rights to privacy. so um there's something there's some things to that and look I'm going to be governed by that so when I have that report you know the person yeah but but as we know in a small town they know the other party or the party Jones has three kids in the school and the Jones kids are going to be impacted by that and so there's a lot you know it's complex it's also for a lawyer to like they said we're not lawyers and those are legal kinds of things no but but it's simple like i'm obligated under law to release certain things so i'll release certain things under that law obligation but it's not always always i think it's also for maybe us to make a recommendation back to the board of just like what is that board what does the board do with that information or the you know Like that, what is the most helpful outcome for the, I keep wondering what you're going to do with that information.

Hobbies of such reports, the town supervisor's office shall make such reports available to the public consistent with the state freedom. And the other thing is, you know, the task force we've been saying, what is the task force when we even do. Fully represent the full range of community stakeholders with an interest in maintaining public safety with an interest in maintaining public safety during. immigration enforcement operations where no judicial warrants are produced and then it says the town shall consult with the task force concerning all relevant matters regarding immigration enforcement operations within the town and consider recommendations to the town regarding policies necessary to ensure the safety of the public Make a new response. Yes, I think that's what we have to figure out.

Maybe it's going back to the task force to think about. We should what?

Yeah, I think section 4 is kind of the meat.

Well, that's what I was trying to say about funneling this a little bit.

I trust you that I trust that. Most of the things that are in this proposed legislation is covered by policy. That was the 1 thing that stood out to me as something that couldn't you that that. Isn't necessarily specifically kind of covered on a policy. It sounds like it's covered based on like, in practice in practice. But it's not, it's not.

All right, see you guys next week. Yes. 2 30. yes.

I will 1st, check in with. The representative to make sure he's available and he's not giving the other times and days.

Just just go to the Wednesday after July 11, tell them to go with that date.

Yeah.

In general. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would look at the calendar to see what we've got, you know, hopefully. Yeah, but I'll reach out to everybody and make sure that we'll imagine that's that unless we hear otherwise.

Did you mention we're having a meeting with other supervisors?

We didn't. I was not able to make the eastern supervisor tomatoes last week. I forgot to check in with Mike who did attend on my behalf to see if they covered anything every so often. I do like chat with, you know, like, I saw them separate county supervisors the week before and just briefly touched upon it with a couple of the other ones. But it was, you know, like. East Hampton had pastors South Hampton is already, you know, they're looking at their policies and seeing what's, you know, their place, you know, and I didn't get a chance to ask her. And so there wasn't any, like, or an update to get that.

I just want to say thank you again to you for this is so thorough. I can tell, like, how it's working. Anyway, it was just this is great.

Thank you. So we will close the meeting. Thank you. Control and admit part of the meeting.

She's recording it and we'll use the recording for the minutes.

So you'll have to turn it off.