Town Commission - Regular Meeting

September 3rd, 2026, regular commission meeting.

Sixth town commission regular meeting. Please stand for the pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice,

I'm going to call the roll.

Mayor Burrell?

Here.

Vice Mayor Mayfield?

Here.

Commissioner Fender? Here. Commissioner Kersman? Yes. Commissioner Titicus? Here. We have a quorum.

Okay. Seeing we have no proclamations, we'll just move along to public comments not on the agenda. And let's call Don Weiner up first. Oh, sorry, sorry, Don. Oh, you've got two of them in. You've got two in. Okay. Pardon, what? You've got two in. I've got two ones for the budget.

Don Weiner, Sewell's Point. My comment tonight is on conduct of the meeting. I've lived here, this is my 50th year, and for almost all of those years, commissioners would have an agenda item. Commissioners would talk about the item. They'd make their comments. The town manager would add information that may not have been previously known. And then, after all that, the public would get up and talk. And after the public got up and talked, then the commission would take that into consideration, rediscuss, and vote. Now, unless something's changed since I was here last, you have public comment before the agenda item. Well, to me, It's dumb. The public doesn't know what all the information is going to be. They haven't heard it all. And I've seen public people get up and talk, but the commission has already addressed that before at a previous meeting or following. They do it before the public really has a chance to understand what's being said. So you've got public getting up and talking about a subject they don't have complete information on. They don't have your opinions on them. And they can't make intelligent comments on what they don't know. It makes more sense for them for you to have your discussion, then have comments from the public so you can weigh it based on solid information. You're not wasting our time. You're not wasting your time. And like I said, that's the way it's been until recently for all the years I've lived here. And what you're doing now makes no sense. Thank you. Thank you. Okay.

And now we have Scott .

Good evening. Scott Kraft for Delano Lane. I just want to make a comment about the projects that have gone on up until this point. Once again, thank the board for how it's all gone. There's been a lot of continuity in what you're doing and a lot of momentum. I know each time we go down this road of what's lacking and what's coming next. And I just want to make sure that the momentum keeps going, that we keep the same attitude about it, the same momentum, basically. I know this comes directly to Bob, Mr. Daniels, as far as how he manages his team and how he gets things done. And it seems as though everyone, you know, I read all the performance reviews from everyone and they all seem to agree that Bob has done a great job with getting these projects done. So that to me is the important thing going on. Someone complaining that maybe their issue about dog waste took 60 days to address. I understand that's an important issue to them at the time, but there might be a reason for that too. Yet it seems pretty minor in comparison to the projects going on. So when you're considering what to do with Mr. Daniels, I feel like the town can afford to have good people in the positions that they have to hold here. So keep that in mind. I mean, we need to keep them here. I know there have been issues in the past about other towns. wanting to take people, people wanting to go to other towns, that's fine. But if we are competitive here with what's happening out there, I think we should be able to afford it. The other thing is the street lights. I've heard pros and cons about the street lights. I love them. I walk every night. You're walking at these lights. You don't see the actual light glaring in your eyes until you get about 20 feet away from the pole. I mean, they're beautiful. The lighting is even and greater than what was there. So kudos to Bob and the FP&L project that was done there. One last thing. There's been a debate almost every meeting. I get a little chuckle. I laugh. The mayor and Mr. Titicus debate about the STA or the non-STA up in North Sewells.

Oh, we straightened that out.

It's either that we treat it as an STA and there's kind of this understanding in the town. That's kind of what it is. Was it ever designated as an STA? Is it an official STA? Because this goes back and forth and it's fun to watch it. You spar about it, but... There's got to be an answer to it.

We need a tennis ball between us. I think so.

I don't know who's winning. I'm not sure.

Thank you very much. It is a permanent STA. Great.

OK. So we settle that again? OK. Any additions or deletions to the agenda? Okay. I saw you trying to reach. Okay. Mr. Titicus.

A couple things in terms of the minutes from the August 11th meeting. I'm curious as to when we'll get them at the next meeting. Yes, sir. Okay. And then... on page five in the minutes from the August 8th meeting. I had requested to the staff research when employee contributions were last increased and the finance director was going to follow up on that.

I don't have that information as yet, but I'll have it for you before the next meeting.

Okay, and then I asked you about this this morning. Is anybody here from Cap Tech? Yes, Gary Jones. All right, great. I'm curious in terms of the pricing on Cap Tech, on the plan for the STA on North Souls Point Road in terms of a res- Let's wait until we get to further on down. Okay, all right, I'll wait on that. That was it for the agenda.

Motion to accept agenda as approved.

I'll second.

OK, we have a motion. We have a second.

Vice Mayor Mayfield? Yes. Commissioner Fender? Yes. Commissioner Kersman?

Yes.

Commissioner Titicus?

Yes.

Mayor Burrill?

Yes.

Motion passes.

Now I need an approval for the agenda. So moved. We have a motion. We have a second. We have a motion and a second. I'm going to call the roll.

Commissioner Fender? Yes. Commissioner Kersman?

Yes.

Commissioner Titicus?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Mayfield?

Yes. Mayor Burrill?

Yes.

Motion passes.

Okay. All right. I'm going to go to the, let's see, my agenda seems to be a little messed up. We did the action items, approval of the consent agenda, public hearing on the trim and budget.

You want to take it over? I can do it.

Sounds good. So the town held a budget workshop on August 8th where I presented the budget and brief for fiscal year 2027. At the workshop, we discussed specific line items that were questioned. I answered to the best of my ability at that time. The copy of the budget interbrief is on the website for residents to view. So what this meeting is for or what we're doing at this meeting is we have to adopt the tentative millage and then we have to adopt the tentative budget. With that being said, there's specific statutory requirements that we have to go through. So we have the statutory language, which is required. And I'm going to recite that now. The proposed millage rate of 3.27 mills is greater than the rollback rate of 3.0477 mills by 7.29%. So that is that. And then we've got the resolution. Resolution 1003-26 and staff is asking that the Commission approve the tentative millage rate and that resolution is a resolution of the Town Commission of the Town of Souls Point, Florida adopting the tentative millage rate for the Town of Souls Point for the fiscal year commencing on October 1, 2026 and ending on September 30, 2027 and providing an effective date and other purposes.

Okay. I need a motion to approve the public hearing. So moved.

Okay.

I'll second. Okay. And that's item two, and it is B and C that we're approving.

Resolution number 1003-26, right? Yep.

That's it. Do we have a motion and we have a second?

Discussion. Okay. get there in a second here. Too late. Too late.

Can I ask a logistical question more so? The motion was for the tentative millage rate. Is it also for the budget or is it just because there were two separate resolutions?

I think we vote on each resolution separately, don't we? Yes. Right, but I think you should. Yeah, we should.

But we voted on it all at the same time.

Well, she read We'll take a motion on public hearing.

The motion on the trim budget first.

The resolution, correct.

Resolution.

There's a motion to approve resolution 1003-26. Is the motion on the floor? Was that the second? Yes.

We have a second. We have a motion and a second. Resolution 1003-26. Discussion on it first, though?

Yeah.

So I'd like to address the millage rate. And I apologize for the small print. However, it is what it is. And my eyes aren't what they used to be. If you look at the spreadsheet in front of you, it says budget analysis FY26 and budget analysis. First category is revenue, 2027 budget, and it comes in at $4,432,146. Then there's 10 months actual and then 12 months projected. And I sat down with Mrs. Pierce and went over this. And I adjusted it to her numbers where it was, where appropriate, or left it the way that I had projected it out. And it was normally just dividing the number by 10 and then multiplying it by 12. So what happens is, if you look at the comments on at the bottom of that first revenue line. The Town of Souls Point projected the 2026 revenue at 4,548,000, which is greater than the revenue for the 2027 budget.

What, Sal, are you referring to?

I'm referring, if you go down to 12 months projected, total operating revenue, and look at the comment next to it. It says TSP projected 2026 revenue at $4,548,181. Yeah, I see you now.

Thank you.

Okay. And that's larger than the revenue that's projected for 2027 of $4,432,146 in the budget, which, as I stated during the budget hearing, I think that what we're doing is understating revenue and overstating expenses. And so if you look at the operating expenses.

Can I ask a couple questions? Sure. To stay with your logic. You just said overstating revenue and understating expenses. Or the opposite, you said overstating revenue.

Understating revenue.

Understating revenue and overstating expenses. Correct. And so to me that is a conservative statement, right?

Yes, it is.

Okay. I just want to make sure we're on the same page.

You know, it's a question of how conservative do you want to be. Sure. And then if you look at operating expenses, the operating expenses for the 10 months and then projected out for 12 months were 11.2% below the budgeted amount for 2027. And these numbers, when I went over them with Mrs. Pierce earlier, I added $20,000 into executive because there's an audit being conducted and the final bill hasn't come in yet. Added $50,000 for land purchasing under governmental services, $75,000 for the police car. We've got that coming up tonight for $45,000, plus it's going to take another $30,000 for the chief to outfit it. And then the rest of it, the fire is a contractual amount and the transfers are what they are, that's the .04. So the expenses are 11% below and I think that if you look at the variance analysis, there's some pretty hefty increases in the different departments. Bottom line on this is if you take where we're anticipating coming in on the revenue, and the operating expenses, we will have a surplus this year of roughly about $405,000. What I'm suggesting is that we take half of that surplus and we apply it to a millage reduction. And the millage reduction comes to, it's .017 mils. I'd like to point to the second page, and if you take a look at it, it's called Net Change to Fund Balances. And these have come off of the Florida Order General's municipal filings, which basically are audited statements. And you can see that in 2022, we roughly had a surplus of $200,000. 2023, it was closer to 624, a little over six. 25, between eight and $900,000. If you look at it right now, or at least what the latest numbers that I got earlier today, we have $1.6 million in cash in the bank. Our balance sheet reflects $6.5 million. And your question there, Commissioner Fender was conservative. That's pretty conservative. That's when you stop and consider that our revenue is about $4 million. So to sum it up, if you go to the last page, projected budget is understated in revenue and overstated on expenses. And then I'll just go back through the numbers there. And what I'm One of the examples is the interest income is projected at $25,000. Currently, we have $1.6 million in the bank, $6.4 million in the balance sheet. If you just took the $1.6 million in the bank at a 3.84% interest rate, which is what Florida Prime is currently paying, it will produce $61,440 in income based on the $1.6 million. And I will suggest to you that as more of this grant reimbursement comes rolling in, that will be a larger number. And so from an operating expense standpoint, we're also 14.9% below forecasted operating expenses, which is a pretty healthy increase. So I'm suggesting that rather than adopt millage rate as it currently is, that we entertain a rollback rate of 0.017.

I must have read my mind. I'm going to call you up in a minute. Do you have an answer for this?

So I don't have an answer to the rollback rate. With that being said, I do believe that at the budget workshop we talked about addressing the reserves for the town after the budget was adopted and looking at where we finished the year at. One of the things I would like to point out with, the number that I provided to Commissioner Titicus earlier this afternoon, that was all the funds combined, that $6 million. I don't have that number in front of me. And so that was all the funds with where we're at right now.

So that's the discretionary fund?

Yes, that includes the building fund, the capital fund, and the general fund. So... go ahead so anyway with that the revenues that go into the capital fund if they're invested the interest goes into the capital fund for the interest in whatever revenues are vested in the general fund that interest is going to be placed into the general fund I've stated before I do tend to lean on a more conservative budgeting with the revenues the town of souls point has three major revenues that the town receives to cover operational expenses if you get if you want to bring your revenues to like almost pinpoint to and like what we're really seen and use every single line and and adjust it you can but if there's variances you could end up you know we end up with a surplus you could end up maybe with the deficit so I thought we had to be at 5% off well so with our property tax we do we have to we we budget 95% of the property tax so I think, but one of the commissioners, Commissioner Titicus was basically pointing out the interest line. When you look at that, I budgeted for next year 25,000. I'm projecting that we're gonna get 25,000 in revenues this year. I just put three million in to investments because the grant revenues or reimbursements are coming in. So as that's coming in, I'm making those adjustments. So, I think I'll defer to the town manager.

I guess just to add to what Mrs. Pierce is saying is we do still have some capital projects that we're working on, namely 2B, the road resiliency that we're hoping that within the next week or so we'll We'll finally get the HMGP to give us the documentation that we need. So coming off of where we were in a cash flow crunch and we couldn't We had to borrow money to make sure that we could meet our liabilities. She's taken the conservative approach, which I agree with. I think we should always be conservative when it comes to our revenues. And if we overstate our expenses, then ultimately at the end of the year, we're going to be in a situation where we don't have to worry about it. We also don't have to worry about if we cut it too close, we'd be coming back here for budget transfers and seeking the commission's approval, which we may get or may not get, for items that we normally would budget and get approvals through the budget process. Aside from that, how much we keep and retain, that's a policy decision that's made by you all.

So let me ask you a question. So the $6 million is really broken up into three sections, basically.

That's correct.

And we use that money to fund some of the grants that we get.

We fund some of the grants with that money. We have some of the money as the discretionary sales tax that we can't use except for certain projects.

Okay, so if we cut back on that, that means that we have to borrow more money if we need to to apply for grants.

To match the grants, correct.

Okay, I just want to make sure that's clear. Okay, Vice Mayor Mayfield.

Yes, I think Rolling back the mill drape is fundamentally a good idea. And after the projects are done, I would definitely revisit it. But I don't think it makes sense when we have been working for years to try to get adequate funds to take care of these projects. And I would also need a little more time to digest and look over your spreadsheet. But I appreciate all the backup.

I was going to say something almost very similar. I was going to say I am in favor of the rollback. And secondarily, I'm super appreciative of Frank's work on detailing the budget line items. So thanks for that. The mitigating issues right now is, first, I'm also budgetary conservative, so I appreciate having the wiggle room. Secondarily, this activity would be awesome at a time frame when we didn't have the last phase of the road raising flood mitigation pending. So there's still some major capital projects that are coming down the pike that we want to make sure that don't get impacted. And thirdly, we've got Amendment 3 right around the corner. So if I knew the outcome of Amendment 3, then I would be a stronger proponent of this. And again, I think we should do this every year. And we should be getting a rollback when there is actual budget surplus to roll back. Right now, we have significant liabilities that are going to impact us. So right now, I think we just need to kind of stay the course and protect the budget we have to ensure the project gets completed.

OK. Mr. Kurzman.

Yeah, I'm a little leery about doing anything right now, one way or the other. Amendment 3, as Commissioner Fender just said, is right around the corner. We don't know what the outcome's going to be. And I don't want to fall short on the project as well. Those are the two major concerns that I have right now. And I don't know where we're going to stand next year and then the year after if Amendment 3 does pass. we're gonna be in pretty bad shape and that includes having to dig into our reserves later on and we might deplete them at this rate to keep a town running because that doesn't mean that doesn't there's no exceptions anymore if i'm correct with the police department the fire department we still got to fund all these we need a finance director there's a town manager that's required and you i'm looking more to the future not just today you can't look at today only and i if the amendment three does not pass, I don't have a crystal ball, and none of us do. And I'd be happy to do the rollback, but there's just too many uncertainties right now.

OK. Commissioner Titicus.

Well, I appreciate everybody's comments. I think you're conflating two things. One is a cash flow issue, and the other thing is a balance sheet issue. This town has an extremely strong balance sheet. And we ran into a cash flow issue earlier. We had to take out a line of credit. We paid down that line of credit. And there's still money sitting out there that we're in the process of collecting that we will collect. that will top off that balance sheet. And one of the reasons why I included this graph was because this is the net change to the fund balances. And what these numbers represent, or what these blue bars represent, is this is a surplus on an annual basis that we've been adding to. And if you look at the top line, as Mrs. Pierce pointed out to me earlier today, we get the majority of our revenue from three buckets. One bucket is the ad valorem taxes in which we can only budget 95%. The second bucket is the electric franchise fee. And then the third bucket is sales tax. Well, if you look at the ad valorem taxes, 100% of collecting ad valorem taxes for 2026 will be 3.6 million and some change, okay? Mrs. Pierce is projecting that we'll collect $3,487,000 and there are some people that haven't paid the property taxes. That money eventually rolls in because it's collected by the tax collector and we not only get that tax money but we also get the interest that the individual is charged. So that would tell me that in 2027, we are going to exceed the 100% of the ad valorem taxes because we'll be getting the back taxes. And if I'm correct, Mrs. Pierce said that she recognizes the revenue at the time it's collected, not the time that it's earned. Which is a question, I think, for the auditors when that rolls around. So I believe that this is extremely conservative. This isn't cutting it super close. I'm not suggesting that we give up buying paper and paperclips and pencils and things along those lines. I just think my philosophy of government is I think the money is better off in the taxpayer's hands than it is in government's hands.

Mr. Fender.

I agree. The money is better in our hands, in our taxpayers' hands. I think what you have here is a context problem. You're showing four years of activity and the graph does show surplus. I would agree. We have a very strong balance sheet, but I think it's reflective of four years of capital projects and grant funding that will dissipate as soon as all the capital projects are completed. So I believe this graph looks different if you go back ten years, and I think it looks different if you project in the future five more years. And so that's why I'm suggesting that we do your analysis after the road raising project is complete and all of the grant digestion is off of our balance sheets. And then I think you'll see that these are artificially inflated numbers and they're going to come down. And by the way, I'm assuming Appendment 3 is going to pass. I'm going to vote no, but I believe it will pass. And I believe you will get your rollback rate whether you actually I don't want to give you two rollback rates, is what I'm saying. You're going to get the rollback rate if Amendment 3 goes through.

Tell them that is your... Just to clarify on the Avalurm taxes that are paid at a later date, that later date is not going to be in fiscal year 27 necessarily. It could be in fiscal year 28 or 29. So it's great. We will eventually get the money and when we get it, it gets accepted as part of the revenues for that particular fiscal year.

Mr. Sitticus.

I just want to make a clarification. The numbers that are reflected there on the graph are strictly the operating fund and it does not include the building fund, it does not include the capital fund. And so they're not conflated because of, they're not conflated due to the grant issue. And these, we have to file, and I'm not sure whether we file it or the auditors file it, but our financial statements get filed with the Florida Auditor General's office and they're available on public records. 2025 hasn't been filed yet, just as a FYI.

Just if I may, those are done again after the fiscal year's ended. So that's what our auditors are working on right now is the 25 fiscal year. They are running behind on it because we couldn't give them all of the information they needed when they needed it, just because Mariah was working with the grants and getting all the paperwork done for that. But that should be coming up about two weeks. They should be done with our audit. Whether we have it on the 17th agenda or the October agenda, it'll be forthcoming. And it does, you're correct, they do use that audited statement as the one that goes to the state.

Is there a possibility of re-voting on this at another time? Once we put it in place, that's it.

No, so basically... The rollback rate I'm talking about. The rollback rate. So the way it works, what is tentatively approved tonight, we have to advertise by the 13th to make our 17th meeting. So we have statutory timelines.

And it's not until it's adopted on the 17th.

On the 17th.

Whatever you adopt tonight, you can go lower than, but you can't go higher than.

Okay.

At the final. Okay. All right.

Do you want to make a motion?

There's a motion on the table.

Do you want to hear public comment before you vote? Actually, I do. Thank you. Don Whiteout.

Thank you, Mariah.

There's a couple of things. First of all, I'd like to commend you all for putting up with all this budget stuff. Ours was a whole lot simpler when I was in office. A whole lot simpler. The one thing I will comment on that I haven't seen and that I understand the change. I see $10 million in here for some kind of flood fund or something. The town has always been an affluent town. Now it's more affluent than ever. I see homes almost a minimum of $800,000, $900,000 all the way up to $25 million. We're an affluent town. When I was in office and all the times before, and I don't know since, every year we repaved 10% of the side streets or subdivisions in town. In the 11th year, we repaved South Sewells Point Road. Now, I understand we're doing some flood prevention and a bunch of other stuff by raising the road. However, right now, our side roads look like crap. Pardon my language. But they do. They're totally not reflective of a town of this character and this caliber. And somewhere along the line, it'd be nice to see a couple of million dollars thrown into side streets, thrown into that kind of, let's fix our town up. I can't take pride in it right now. Right now, it looks like a lot lower caliber than what we're always used to. I know you're not going to change anything. You've got $10 million in there. But if you don't get any grant funding, I don't know what happens to that $10 million. But it's still in the budget. Anyway, I've said my piece. I thank you all for what you're doing. I want to thank the two commissioners that are running for re-election. service to the town is very valuable and uh to commissioner mayfield who is leaving office this year no i actually have two more years so who's the one that's leaving office oh no don't don't don't do that your change is mine so we've got three candidates well there's three candidates for two positions but they're both incumbent positions well for all of you who are your service and doing more service for the town. I appreciate it, because I know what you're going through. And that's why I didn't run for office for a second term. Thank you.

You all have a good night.

Auto drive that Tesla down Oakwood Drive. Auto drive your Tesla down Oakwood Drive about your side street comment. You'll like it.

You can drive my Tesla anywhere, as long as you repave the road after.

Come check out our paved road on Oakwood. You'll like it.

Are there any further comments? Just fill out a form when you're done.

Yeah, OK. Scott Kraft for Delano Lane. Just curious, you may have answered this at another meeting, but what is the emergency fund at this point? When I don't see a lot of outcry from the public about lowering the taxes, and they're all, from what I hear, pretty happy that you're keeping the rate where it's at, then the conversation comes up, let's lower it because we have too much money. I don't think we're ever going to have too much money. But there are going to be a lot of things that come up. And from what I understand, it's been pretty much the same for a long time since a previous administration just decided to drastically lower it. So maybe you could tell me what that is and what we could go through.

Thanks. Okay.

It's been the policy of the commission to have a million dollars in reserve.

It seems very low.

Okay. Any other comments? Can I, Claire?

Yes, and I would ask the finance director, you know, there's, you're talking about the strong, and I still, stand with what I said before. I do not think we should be lowering the rate while we have all these projects going on. But there's been talk about the balance sheet, and a very strong balance sheet is a very good thing. I think caught up in this is also the fact that we did raise the rate. The finance director could correct me if I'm wrong, but we have that capital fund. I don't know how much it's been sent or moved out, but There was, we were trying to get some funds for, and I believe with this phase that's coming up, there was talks about having like $700,000, you know, we were supposed to match a certain amount. So that's kind of, the fact that there might be stuff there is a good thing, and what we were trying to do to help pay for the big gap in our road. So that's how I look at it. This means we're doing what we intended to do so that we could finish the projects.

Mr. Titticus, I'm sorry. A couple things.

In terms of the reserves, there is a million-dollar disaster reserve, and I had asked the question, and I think Commissioner Fender had also asked the question, when that got established, and we're not able to determine that. But that might be worth looking at in terms of putting an inflation factor on it. We have an operating reserve of a half a million dollars, and the operating reserve basically is roughly three months of operations of town hall. So I don't think that that needs to be increased. And then we have a reserve for the fire contract, which is roughly about $400,000. And if you look at... If you look at the spreadsheet that I provided to you, which comes off of the town budget, you'll see that on the expense side, there's total transfers of $419,729, and that basically is going into the reserve fund. The military reduction, I'm not suggesting that we take it down the surplus of $400,000, take it all, I suggested that we take half of it, or 50% of it, and then the other couple hundred thousand dollars would end up rolling back into one of the reserve funds. And we also have an unrestricted reserve fund. But those are restricted, and the half-cent sales tax, which I don't have it in front of me and what we generated, but that's also a restricted reserve. to be used for environmental work. So I mean, other than disaster, which I think we ought to take a look at, I believe that we're adequately reserved in my humble opinion.

I just want to make a comment that I think that was the disaster reserve, the one million was already in place in 2012. So I don't know when it was before that, but I know it was in place in 2012, okay?

Yeah, it was here when I started, and then we put it into a resolution format, made it more official somewhere after 2019. There you go, okay.

Mr. Kurzman.

And going a little further back, when we had Town Manager Kellogg, when he left office, it was a $2 million reserve at that time for disaster. And when Pam Walker came in, she ate up a million of it, and it became a million dollar reserve. So we get a little history there, so people have a better understanding. We did the opposite. So it was taken down when she became our town manager. I wasn't in the commission at that point. That was before me. But the other thing I'll say is nobody's mentioning the project we've got to do on River Road to keep Mandalay, particularly Cindy Lucas' house, from flooding. So, you know, and all the people that live there on the bottom of Mandalay, where the water gets pretty deep, and we're trying to capture water, and we're supposed to go from Delano all the way down to Kiplinger's property with that. or Henry Sewell's to capture the water as it's coming down so the further down properties don't flood out. That's the purpose of this while we're doing the project in the first place. The other thing is I don't know how many times we've heard since I've been up here, the people are complaining just like Don Weiner did that the roads walk up and down River Road. I don't know how many of you do, but it's crumbling. it's it looks terrible and you go along some of the other emerita and palmetto they're basically once again they're crumbling they they're in desperate need of repavement and it's a lot of paving that has to get done uh and then you know we can't just because we're doing the capital projects and i can't remember the lit the only things we've paved are the roads through where the project has been. If it hasn't had a project, it hasn't been paved. And now I'm seeing High Point along there, some of the roads. Island Road doesn't look that great anymore. I walk every road in the community, pretty much. And I'm sure everybody could tell me right where they live how many people would have a wonderful road that needs no repair, that isn't starting to crumble. And these are the roads that I walk along or I jog along on a regular basis, and we have to take care of this. And this is part of the reason people pay taxes, so we take care of them. Our job as government isn't to be profitable, it's for the people. And we're not budgeting strictly to cut taxes. We're supposed to take care of the people that live here, and that's what it's for. It's not going to anything else. and we're behind and I've said that many times and I'm glad Don Weiner said that tonight. It's just, we've neglected it. In the eight years I've been up here, I don't think we've paved a single thing other than what we've done with the projects.

Okay, we have a motion. We have a motion.

The motion is to approve the resolution 1004-26, adopting the tentative town budget.

Mayor, I think it's the 1003-26. That is correct. Tentative budget. Tentative military. Back at 1003.

Okay.

Okay, we have a motion and we have a second. Okay, I'm gonna call roll.

Commissioner Fender? Yes. Vice Mayor Mayfield?

Yes.

Commissioner Titicus?

No.

Commissioner Kersman?

Yes.

Mayor Burrell?

Yes.

The motion passes.

Okay. Resolution 1004-26.

So the clerk read it into the record. OK.

Resolution of the Town Commission of the Town of Souls Point, Florida, adopting the tentative budget for the Town of Souls Point for the fiscal year commencing on October 1, 2026 and ending on September 30, 2027, and providing an effective date and other purposes.

OK. Are there any other further public comments? I see none.

I'll make a motion to adopt Resolution 1004-26. I'll second.

We have a motion and we have a second. Call the roll. I have a comment. Mr. Fender.

Sorry. Frank Titicus. Wrong, Frank. Mr. Titicus. Wrong, Frank. Would you be amenable to amending your motion so that we vote on each one of the funds separately?

It's going to slow me right down. I'm not opposed to it, but that's not my motion.

You can let my motion die on the vine, and you can make a new motion. I'm voting on it.

I guess, for the sake of discussion, can you give me the reasoning behind your statement?

And the building fund, we've dipped into reserves for the building fund for the last two years, and we're dipping into the reserves again this year for the building fund. And I don't think that we should be moving in that direction, and that's why I would like to separate these out.

Can I just follow that path for a second just so I understand? So I see three numbers, $4.4 million, $10.4 million, and half a million. The building fund is the smallest of the three. That's the one we're dipping into. If we don't dip into it, what happens to the other two funds?

Nothing.

Well, don't dip into it is different than approving the budget.

I'm not sure I understand. That's why I'm trying to understand your logic here. I want to understand.

I think that the building fund ought to stand on its own. In other words, the revenue ought to equal the expenses, as opposed to we're budgeting a loss in the building fund so that we have to supplement the revenue coming into that fund. I don't have the budget in front of me, but if I remember correctly, the revenue budgeted for the building fund is...

Since it's my motion, I guess. From Mariah?

If I may.

My question is, I don't think we're allowed to quote-unquote dip into the building fund first. I think...

We're not. The building fund has a reserve fund within the building fund. So what we're trying to do is, with the new legislation that took effect July 1, when we passed the fees, and we are using the revenues that we collected in 25, which is the last full fiscal year that we had. So we're using that as a guide. what we're dipping into if we're, for lack of a better term, utilizing the revenues within the building fund itself if there's a shortfall. Because we don't know at this point with this new system where we're going to end up at the end of the day. And then as we progress each year, we're going to be using the last full year. So 26 will be over when we're figuring the 28 budget. we'll calculate it the same way so but there are revenues that we do have to spend within the reserves in the building fund so we are following the law so that's basically what we're doing we're not dipping into the reserves having to do with the general fund a disaster fund the discretionary fund this is the building fund it's made for us to take excess funding that we might need and to handle the building fund.

What I heard there and what I understand is that by law, we can't use your terminology which was dipping into.

Maybe you want to restate how you... No, I would just like to point you to page 33. And if you look at the bottom line, Account number 382.000, it says reserve utilization, $146,570. So we're using $146,000 of reserves to augment the expenses in the building fund. And it's the building fund reserve.

Point of clarification, yes, is that those funds, because I feel like this is a good thing to remind everyone, those funds can only be used in the building department. So you can't take those funds and go repay for the roads for the general, their building fund. And also, it looks like the capital fund uses reserve funds too, so you'd have to vote no on that one too.

So just still going down the path, let's say that I...

I just wanted to try and lend a little bit of clarity on this building fund.

When you are bringing in fees over the course of the year, they go into your reserve. In the building fund, you're only allowed to hold so much in reserve, and you're only allowed to hold it for so long. So it's important to spend funds that have been sitting there for a while. So that might be a part of why you're seeing some being planned for expenditure, so that they don't get lost, basically.

Does that help you?

Yeah. I mean, I understand what our counselor is saying. If the reserves reach more than four times the expenses in the building fund, then you have to reduce your permit fees. And we've done a good job. In turn, we haven't reduced our permit fees. That was a discussion that we had a couple meetings ago, number one. Number two, we've also put expenses into the building fund, like a third of Mrs. Pierce's time is in there. about 40% of Mr. Daniel's time is in the building fund. When you look at it, there's 3.5 FTEs assigned to the building fund. And so I think the town is doing everything it can to sock away as many expenses as possible in the building fund. But at some point in time, we're gonna have to reduce our permit fees.

But what does that have to do with, I mean, we're just approving the budget. So I appreciate that, and we can address that in the future, and I think we mentioned that when we did the building permit fees. But right now, we're just approving the budget.

So again, my question is, if we break it into three sections, how does that help you? I mean, would you then vote no on the third one?

I would.

Okay. Why don't you just vote no on all three?

Because... Because...

just doing the math.

No, I hear you.

For speed.

For speed, okay. I have no problem with the capital.

The discussion's important.

I have no problem with the capital projects fund, number one. Number two, general fund, as I said, I thought it would be a rate rollback, but I will vote for the budget. And the building fund, No, I would vote no on the building fund. So rather than being put into a position where I've got to vote the whole shoot and match down, I'm asking you to break it into three discrete chunks.

And I would mean your, I recognize your point. It's public record. It's on the record of why you've specified this, which I think is important. And I'll keep my motion the same. Because I think your point is getting across.

It's my point. We should have discussed this at the last, at the budget meeting.

But we're smarter now.

Not now. Okay, so we have a motion and we have a second. Any public comment? And do we have any further public comment? Seeing none. Motion and a second.

Commissioner Kurtzman.

Yes.

Commissioner Titicus.

No.

Vice Mayor Mayfield. Yes. Commissioner Fender. Yes. Mayor Burrell.

Yes.

Motion passes. Okay.

We go to 1-0-0-4-2-6.

Mayor, that's the one we just did.

We're on to the evaluation.

New business. We're on to new business.

We're getting confused between 1-0-0-4 and 1-0-0. OK, we're on new business. Good, I'm glad. but I made that mistake. Town evaluation, town manager evaluation. Would you like to speak?

So what you have before you is the town manager's annual performance appraisal. The time frame is from August 1st, 2025 through July 31st, 2026. In the packet, As I have done in the past, it's a summarized scoring on this. The thing that I did note differently is we put the commission's comments and with, you know, who made the comment, because I think I heard that from last year that it was important to know who was making the comments. Per the town manager's agreement, his contract, upon receiving a satisfactory or high annual performance evaluation, He will receive the same percentage increase provided to the other town employees, which is a fiscal year 27 where we're asked for 4% increase. But his agreement also states that at the discretion of the town commission, an additional increase of up to 5% may be awarded for outstanding performance. So at this time, this is for the commission to decide how you would like to proceed with any additional

increase for the town manager hang on mr curzon i got a call for uh public comments on this does anybody have any public comment i see none mr curse yeah i would like to table this once again till after the election

I'd like to see what goes on with Amendment 3. I don't think this is a good time to do anything right now. I think Tom Andrews has done a great job, but I think we just need to table until after the election so we know better what we're working with now and in the future.

Any other comments? Mr. Fender.

So just a nit comment right now. I see the form. We didn't all follow the form correctly, and I was going to apologize for following it incorrectly. But then I see your added comments followed my format, which was the average of each category. But the actual instruction, and some people did it right. And after I reviewed them, I'm like, oh, I did this wrong. But it says add the values from above and enter the subtotal. But I put the average in there. And now you've also put the average in there. So maybe we should either change the language or leave it the same. And I'll do it right next time, either one. And that said, of course, the town manager's done a phenomenal job. And I also reviewed all the comments. And we didn't all follow the format, but that's OK. Again, didn't we make a budget? Didn't we already include some sort of increase in the budget? That was last time. That was last time.

No, I think that the standard 4% is in there. The 4% is in there.

OK, something is in there. OK, that's what I'm saying. So I also agree with Commissioner Kurzman that we don't have a crystal ball. We don't know what Amendment 3 is going to do. We don't know where our budget is going to be after this. And plus, the election's got to happen. I don't know if we want a table or not. I think the performance review speaks for itself. It's positive, but I don't know about making any kind of changes to the budget during this call, during this meeting. Town attorney.

I just wanted to make sure that we're all on the same page, that the 4% that's called for in the contract is in the budget and that is reflected in the performance reviews would be awarded as of October 1st, and what you're discussing is any additional.

Okay. What we could do, and I apologize. No, it's okay. What I was saying is that we could table this after the election, and then we could add a certain percentage on at the time, depending on Amendment 3. Like I say, it wouldn't be right to do anything with the town money at this point. If Amendment 3 doesn't pass, it means we're taking a big cut.

It does pass.

If it does pass, correct. And then we're still getting a raise, but we'd like to be a little more generous. But until we see what happens there, I think it's a fiscal responsibility that we have to do. OK.

Yes. I think that sounds fair. At least he's definitely deserving of the 4% raise, as I think all the staff is. I think he does an excellent job. I think we're lucky to have him as a town manager. And I think that's mostly evidenced by the projects getting done as they did, as we wanted them to do, for the most part, I think is an excellent feat. So I really appreciate your role in that. And I appreciate all your, I think you're a great supervisor of the staff. And you build good camaraderie. So I think that's great. I'm pleased with your performance. Thank you.

There is one thing. Since we've had this format for I don't know for how long, is there anybody that wishes to change the format? Make it maybe simpler? I mean, in the future, not right now, but in the future.

I had this discussion with Mr. Daniels when I went over the evaluation with him. And I think it's a cumbersome evaluation, and I don't think it's incisive enough. And so Mr. Daniels challenged me to come up with a new evaluation, and I told him that I would do so before the next time this rolls around. And obviously, you all have to turn around and say, we like it, we don't like it. But at any rate. I will be coming up with something either in the spring or the early summer.

OK. Awesome. All right. So town manager.

I just have a comment. Normally you have a document that you're being evaluated on, and you know what that document is during the evaluation period. So if you want to implement a new evaluation form when we sit down and do 28 fiscal year, I have no objection to that. But normally with employees, it's good to let them know what you're evaluating them on.

quick comment well okay I think that's a fair comment by the town manager and I do remember when these came to be we didn't have them or the I think that our previous mayor Tom Peck came up with a performance evaluation I believe that we're currently using I think I think there's a I There's a balance there between you don't want it too cumbersome, but you also want to be able to get all the information you need because it does hold such a value in terms of do you get the raise, do you not. So I think that it's important to look at it. But I appreciate that we actually have one, and I think it's pretty good. But I would be definitely open to seeing what you come up with.

Mr. Fender.

I'm fine with the form as it is. I'm also excited about a new form. I would think in this day and age, Claude and Chad GPT are your friends. I'm sure this wouldn't be anything revolutionary. I mean, obviously, five different ways to say you're doing a great job. You're not going to see anything surprising in a performance review that isn't on all performance reviews. You might get us to your comment, which is valid. And we're not going to change the goalpost on you somehow. I wouldn't expect us to.

Evaluation is evaluation.

Yes.

If Mr. can come up with a new one, that's fine.

I really have check boxes, honestly, so I don't have to type all that.

Okay. I guess we're going to have another comment here.

Don't sit. Quick question, and this was just me coming up with this out of thin air. Proposition 3, if it does get passed, yes, we have budgetary concerns, cutbacks, and all this. But he's got to live for another couple years, Mr. Daniels. It doesn't affect our budget until 28, 29. So let's think about that, too.

Good point.

We will know, I guess, in November, way before that, we can revisit that, I imagine. So I don't think that's really the issue. I think the issue is whether we do get stuck with Amendment 3. I guess that's what Mr. Kurzman is saying.

Is that correct? Yes. Didn't we provide a sizable increase last year? Yes.

I think he would just move forward knowing that he had a little bump in his salary and a little skip in his step.

That's all. Well, he's got a bump in his salary now. What a matter.

Maybe we'll put a skip in his step in November. It's a mindset.

That's all.

Well, let's put it on the agenda for November.

OK. So we want to put it on the agenda for November. Is that the motion?

I mean, do we need a motion?

We have a motion to place the evaluation on the agenda in November. Do we have a second?

I'll second it. Why not?

We have a second.

Do you need the evaluation again or just the item on the additional salary increase?

You mean to discuss it or just to look at it? I think the discussion is today and discussing any increase that would happen in November.

One thing I would like to see in the future, because if this Amendment 3 goes through, I would like to see, I don't know if it will be included in the meeting or have a special meeting for it. I think it's really important. We've got to figure out where we're going, what we're going to do. And I know our town clerk's list, town financier, slash assistant manager to take the time and try and put something together. I don't know how long that would take. And I want to be fair to you. I don't want to rush you. So I'd rather have things correct. But I think there's a very good chance it'll pass. And I want to prepare properly so that we can do a proper budget moving forward, how we're going to do, what we can't do, and so on.

OK. So we have a motion. We have a second. Call the roll.

I just need a clarification, so I understand. So you're accepting the evaluation today. So the regular raise it's called for in my collective agreement is going to go through. And then in November, you'll sit down and go over and see if there's additional. I just wanted to make sure it was on the record that way.

That was helpful. That would be my motion.

Okay, so we have a motion, we have a second.

Yes.

Commissioner Titicus.

Yes.

Vice Mayor Mayfield. Yes. Commissioner Fender.

Yes.

Commissioner Kersman. Yes. Mayor Burrell. Yes. Motion passes. Motion passes.

Can I ask a quick question about that? If we did make some changes in November, if you replied retroactively, because I know the year changes October 1st, I'm not saying that's going to happen or not, but is that possible?

That's up to us.

I guess so.

Anything's possible. Thank you for your consideration. We have a discussion. Okay, do we have any comments from the commissioners on the discussion? Want to try the STA now?

Sure. Thanks for opening that door, Vinny. I appreciate it. Or Mr. Mayor. One of the things that I talked to Mr. Daniels about was when this was put in, was it permitted? Because if you looked into South Florida Water Management District And if there had been a previously permitted STA, that you can restore it back to the original design with a minimum of hoopla. If you change the design, there's a whole process that you have to go through. And so Mr. Daniels looked into it, found out that yes, it had been um proper it had been permitted and he has requested a copy of the permit from captech and so you know i would like to see a price that basically reflects i'd like to see two things one is it's my understanding that there's consideration of putting something similar to what's behind 78 south souls point on that piece of property, which will be a pretty expensive project, versus putting it back to the way it was, and they both accomplished the same thing. And so, anyway, we're waiting to see what the price is, the CapTech price is about. The other thing I just wanted to mention, was I had the pleasure of going to the Florida League of Cities meeting down in Hollywood. And there were several interesting talks. One of them that I attended was the use of artificial intelligence. And the city manager from Altamont Springs, I think it was Altamont Springs, gave a pretty good presentation of how they're using it. And so I would encourage us to take a hard look at that. and use it to go through our ordinances to determine do we have any conflicts in the ordinances? Are our ordinances up to date in the best practices? They're also using it to, and they have quite a number of a larger number of employees, they're using AI to answer employee questions regarding the HR manual and their personnel manual, which is pretty extensive. And then they're also using AI to do initial plan review and bounce a plan review off of you know, off of the ordinances of the town and see where there may be some deviations from the ordinances. So I would encourage us to work smarter, not harder, and take a hard look at AI.

Well, I think we're coming up with a new book, an ordinance book. Is that correct?

I don't know. Are they promulgating all the ordinances again, Mariah? The mayor was saying they're coming up with a new ordinance.

Are you coming up with a bunch of new books for the commissioners?

Well, I think we were working on a code book for you for your request. Our code is online. OK. And so if you want a paper copy, we could do it if you have a code book. From my understanding, the code books weren't maybe kept up, so that's what we were... Online is better. We were trying to... Searchable online.

Even online is not up to date.

You need to be able to use your computer there, Mayor.

Now that puts me at a disadvantage. I know. Vice Mayor Mayfield. I'm good, thank you. Town Manager.

Yes, taking into account Amendment 3, Would you be interested in maybe doing a workshop sometime in October? So when we do look at options that we might have and I can probably put some items together and distribute them for one-on-one feedback from each of you. I think getting public feedback and an understanding, because some of our members, residents might not even understand this whole situation that we're in and the situation involving the five years where if somebody decides that they want a homestead in January versus December, they're gonna have to wait five years if this passes. So, you know, it's a lot of little moving parts to it. And I don't know if Glenn or Elizabeth would be interested in coming in and addressing that at the same time. But if you all are interested, I can work within the structure and see if we can come up with something.

We have a meeting on October 13th at 6.

Okay.

All right. So does anybody... Have any suggestions on a date for a workshop in October that you're free? Mr. Fender?

So two things on that. I'll piggyback on that. I think it's a good idea to have a workshop. The question is, are we going to do it in here in this meeting on October 30 or also separately for the public on a Saturday morning or something for people who want to come in? Like two versions of it, perhaps. And I was in an all-day leadership thing today with Don Donaldson, and I think you were there in the morning, maybe. And there was a whole section on Amendment 3, and so I think if you're going to do a workshop like that, I think probably you should pull in some resources from the county, because it's a county-based impact, and so it would be good to hear impacts beyond just Sewell's Point and the broader community that we'll be impacted and that we live in, just so that information is there as well. So I think it's beneficial. But that wasn't why my light was on. But you can finish that topic first.

I think to that topic, I think it's a good idea. I can't do the weekend of the 16th.

I don't know what weekends I can do.

Let's just... Sure, we can do that and maybe we could start out with scheduling it an hour before we start our regular meeting on the 16th or 13th, I'm sorry, on the 13th.

I think it might take longer than an hour.

We're going to have to run long. Just to throw it out there. That's a pretty broad topic. If we run a little bit longer, we're just running into our meeting. We'll just start our meeting afterwards and just specify that on the agenda. Again, it's up to you all. And we have time. We have between now and the 17th to figure that out.

So we'll make that, well, the 17th. We'll make that 5 o'clock on Thursday. We're talking about the 17th of September now?

No, 13th of October.

October, okay. I just figured if we need to fine tune it, we could do it at our next meeting.

Yeah, so we need a meeting at 5 o'clock on the 17th.

13th of October.

Oh, okay. I'll get with you. I keep putting the 17th down. I know. I got 17 on my brain. Kim Spears.

Thank you. I probably should have spoke sooner. Just four points that I wanted to address tonight, just comments, just for further discussion. Number one, as far as the town manager's increase goes, I don't think it should be delayed. A 4% raise is great. It's standard of living. I think to manage the projects that he has at hand is worth its weight in gold. And I just want to say that for the town manager. Number two, to our neighbor who discussed the road situation, Definitely, we need to address that at some point. The city of West Palm, for example, has a schedule. They know each year which roads are going to be paved. I feel that we have the most, in my opinion as a resident and a broker, the most prime property in all of Warren County, besides Jupiter Island. I think every single one of our roads need to be paved and we need to be manicured, and it will only increase our value, tax basis wise, which will increase our revenue. What was my other topic of discussion? Three, the emergency fund. To my other neighbor's point, $1 million seems very low for things like that. Obviously, we have insurance on buildings and things like that, but catastrophic events, $1 million doesn't really touch it. And then four, I'm just following up on 78 South Sewells. when the sale, when the listing, we can work getting that property on the market and sold, and that will add additional revenue to the city. So those are my comments.

Is there a CMA on 78 South Sewells Point yet?

We had discussed pricing. It's a variable rate. It's not, I mean, I can give you the numbers that are selling on all the homes, but 78 is a unique piece of property. So our target should be right around what we have, you have purchased it for, because we're not, the property itself needs work and you have some limitations with the easements and things, so. so it would it would price out at two point something i think it's going to be in the 2.2 range if you want to try a little higher it's going to be tough as you can see stuff surrounding you is selling at 2.5 on the wide water with no encroachment or easements like that so it's up to you guys to tell me you know i'm flexible but i think if you want to sell it we don't try to aim too high just try to get our money out okay

Oh, I can't let a meeting go by without talking about trees. Thank you. So, you know, we've lost a few, and I'm most specifically concerned about the one at the end of River Road. And I think, Town Manager, did you tell me we've identified a satin leaf?

Satin leaf, yes. Okay.

All right. And I guess as... Dr. Chuck earlier, then he was on the BZA for the activity on pineapple. And I guess I had some misinformation. I guess there was some administrative costs involved in that.

Right. There were the administrative costs. There were no fines.

OK. But administrative costs is still a cost, right? So it's something, not nothing.

All right.

Thanks.

When do we have a date on the satin leaf?

Not yet. I've been trying to get it. Hopefully I can report that on the 17th or have it installed by then. Or planted, I guess.

I'm done.

You OK?

Yeah.

Any further discussion from the commission? One last question. One quick one.

I promise. I'd like to, one of the things we didn't finish up with Ms. Spears was about the price of the house at 78. That's what she was just saying. We did say that at 2.2, then?

I think it should really come on around the 2 of September. I think 2.5 is too high in the current market that we're in. The war is affecting us. High interest rates are affecting us. A lot of things are affecting us right now. And someone who wants to buy that property obviously is dealing with a retention time. I've had an interest prior to us even putting it on the market. And the first thing they ask me, can we fill in the retention plan? I'm like, no. So I mean, we're going to have some hurdles. But again, it's live water. And this is one of the best, in my opinion, locations in all of our time.

And when will there be a for sale sign in front of there?

Well, I need my listing paper signed.

We need a listing contract first.

I thought we had that already. I apologize.

OK. Any other comments? Seeing none, do I have a motion to adjourn? No moved. We have a motion, we have a second. We are adjourned.