Board of County Commissioners - Regular Meeting

-Everyone, please make your way to your seats. Today is Tuesday, November 2025 at 09:30 in the morning, Board of County Commission meeting here in Seminole County. I would ask you check your cell phones, any electronic devices that you may have, and please silence those. We're going to start with the invocation by, mister Shane Cahoot of Metro Life Church, and commissioner Gallori will lead us in the pledge. Please rise.

Thank you. Please join me in a moment of reverence. Sovereign God, we acknowledge that you are the giver of every good gift, that you bless people, that you are provider, and you use things in your created order and use things in our culture and society to bless people, and local governance is one, which means that this room and this meeting is a fount. And I ask this morning that this fount would overflow with goodness, grace, mercy, compassion, justice, and righteousness into Seminole County, that real people would be blessed through the decisions in this room. We lift up our teachers to you right now.

We thank you for them and the work that they're doing. We ask that you would help them flourish, not only in their calling and vocation, but in life. For the children in their care, and the children are being watched by childcare workers and are at home with families right now. Would you bless our children and keep them safe? Would they flourish?

We lift up business owners and entrepreneurs, the work that they do in commerce, and creating jobs, and and growing our economy. Would you bless them today? And would they flourish? And for those who work for them, in hospitality, in services, in construction, in maintenance, for our first responders, for law enforcement, ER nurses and doctors, ambulance drivers and firefighters. Would the citizens of our cities flourish?

And would you bless the commissioners and those who work in this room? And would they flourish and their families flourish? And would everyone in this room rightly feel the weight of the responsibility to govern well? Would the decisions and the leadership in this room not only lead in excellence in their work today, but excellence in their character, that everyone would be blessed. And I pray this in the name of your son, Jesus. Amen. Amen.

Please join me in the pledge.

Thank you both very much. We sincerely appreciate, mister Kahoot for being here today and lead us in prayer. And commissioner Delar, I thank you for the pledge. We're gonna switch things up a little bit this morning with the blessing of my fellow commissioners. I'd like to move item number four from the consent agenda up to awards presentations and proclamations. If I don't hear any reason why we shouldn't do that, I'm gonna go ahead and ask that we move that forward. So be it, this would be commissioner Her, if you'd be kind enough to read this item into the record, please.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are in the presence of royalty today. So I read the following resolution of the Seminole County Board of County Commissioners honoring the 100 birthday of Queen Charlotte Taylor, who is here with us today to celebrate. Whereas queen Charlotte Taylor was born on 11/11/1922 in The Republic Of Panama, and whereas miss Taylor immigrated to The United States in or about 1961, a very fine year, might add, residing first in Brooklyn, New York before making her home in Queens, New York. And whereas, miss Taylor worked diligently at New York Hospital for approximately twenty eight years, retiring in 1989. And whereas, following her retirement, miss Taylor relocated to Florida in 1995, first residing in Lake Mary and later moving to Sanford in 2,004, where she was among the first three residents of the Cedar Hill subdivision, and whereas miss Taylor's strong work ethic led her to rejoin the workforce for several years as a private duty nurse continuing her lifelong commitment to caring for others, And whereas miss Taylor has been a devoted woman of faith, worshiping as a member of Family Worship Center, Abundant Life Ministries Church, and Reality Community Church congregations, she has outlived.

Yet she continues to worship and give thanks to God whose presence transcends all walls. And whereas, miss Taylor has also been an active member of the Sanford Senior Center, engaging into our community and fostering meaningful relationships with fellow residents. And whereas, miss Taylor is the proud matriarch of a large and loving family, including five children, 14 grandchildren, 19 great grandchildren, and seven great great grandchildren. And whereas, miss Taylor became a naturalized citizen of The United States and remains deeply grateful for the blessings of one hundred and three years of life, love, family, and community. Whereas her life stands as a shining example of faith, perseverance, service, and grace inspiring all who will have the privilege of knowing her.

Now therefore be it resolved by the board of county commissioners of Seminole County, Florida that queen Charlotte Taylor is hereby honored and celebrated on the occasion of her 100 birthday with sincere appreciation for her lifelong contributions, her enduring faith, and her steadfast love of family and community. Adopted this November 2025. Second.

Motion and second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, aye. Closed like sign. Carries unanimous congratulations.

Let's get a photo down there. One of the diets. Alright. We appreciate everybody's patience. Isn't it amazing?

A 103 years old. God bless him. Wow. That generation has seen more accomplished in this world than any generation before and probably any generation after. Well, next we'll go to our county investment advisor report, mister Scott McIntyre, who's here with us live today. Mister McIntyre, welcome.

Good morning. Here we go again. Right? Okay. The Fed cut rates very recently. The big question is whether they're gonna cut in December, and the market has kinda decided that they probably might not. It's sort of iffy. It's it's opposed to a month ago when it was roughly a 100% chance priced in, it's about 50 now. And the reason why is that the Fed has not seen economic data to substantiate whatever decisions they're making, and that's gonna be here for a while. I think it's a coin flick in December, but if it doesn't happen in January December, it will likely happen in January.

So it's just a question of timing. It's not a question of of, if, it's if it's when. Obviously, the the federal government shutdown is resolved. There's bad feelings all around. Kinda kinda let you know that this funding only goes through January 30, and on January 31, we potentially do it all again. And I think there's a a reasonable chance that that happens, god forbid, but but somewhat likely. The, economic data I I'm sorry. My eyesight is sort of deteriorating a little bit. I'm have to bring my other glasses next time. But, there the the government sourced economic data is not available.

We're looking at private source data. It's not clear that the investors are trusting that data that they haven't been used to seeing yet. So we're not gonna get a CPI report for for the month of October. It wasn't produced. Chances are November will be late or not produced at all.

September employment will actually come out on Thursday, but it's gonna be very forty eight days late, so I'm not sure how useful that is. And then when we roll into October employment, the idea is we may see the payroll numbers, but we won't see the unemployment rates. So, again, from the standpoint of the Fed who's trying to gauge the data so they can determine whether or not they cut rates, they're just not seeing enough right now. But I will tell you the private sector job data seems to be really, really weak. And the more we hear and the more we read, the more it appears that AI is having a significant quick effect on on white collar jobs at the front end.

Seen that we talked about it before, but a a 7% unemployment rate for recent grads coming out in the technology area, which is about double what it was a year before. Very, very troubling. Inflation is warm. It's not hot. That's probably fine. And to be honest with you, and this is right off the top of my head, regardless of when the Fed cuts, I don't think that that rate cut would affect inflation or the job market. Because in theory, when you cut interest rates, you stimulate growth by making borrowing cheaper. There's plenty of borrowing and plenty of investment going on right now. So I think that as usual, we're just gonna have to wait and see what happens. But this is a this a very unusual time.

I know I've used that phrase before to the point that it's almost worn out, but, we're having a lot of trouble making understanding the current environment. This is the two year treasury note yield. I'd like to just show it to you guys. This is over the course of last year. So, down, down, down, actually moved up just a little bit recently, which is fine because there hadn't been a whole lot of investing done in the last couple months just cause you've been spending the money.

This is, as I usually show you, the interest rates that are available over the course of the last several times we've been here. So up a little bit since the last time we've been here. I feel like it's it's still a good time to invest longer to the extent that it cash flows allow, simply because I do think that ultimately rates will be lower. Again, it's just a question of timing more than anything else. So upcoming maturities, and I mentioned there are maturities coming up in November, then there's a gap in December for maturities, and a gap in January, and a gap in February.

And the reason why is that your tax money's coming in. So we intentionally did not position maturities to mature at the time when we'd have to make decisions about where we'd invest that tax money. But a couple are coming off recent transactions. Two palm reinvestments that we had talked about before at at what I feel like are fairly reasonable levels. Those were positioned to mature when you need the, maturities for for expense reasons.

The CD, the big CD that matured was rolled over, what I felt like was a really favorable rate out three years, locking in a March with Centennial, which is where that came from. All the other banks on that competitive bid situation were nowhere near that March, and it's about 35 basis points above where treasuries were in that spot at the time. So recommended purchases, we are recommending for heaven's sakes, I'm really having trouble here.

I have an extra pair.

Well, it's long distance, which I used to have just fine. But so looking at 10,000,000 and 10,000,000 out in the two and the three year sector at roughly today, probably in the neighborhood of $3.60, those are specifically positioned to fortify your expected cash flow, which I became a lot more intimately aware of this summer when I looked at what your spending patterns were. And then same thing with that $20,000,000 palm, which is basically reinvestment. It's going to the summer months next year when you'll be needing the money. So it's fairly simple.

And again, just to let you know, the next thing we're gonna be concentrating on is when your property taxes come in. So, that's gonna be pretty quick, and we're gonna have to make some decisions there. But for right now, it's it's fairly easy. It's a it's a rollover, $210,000,000 investments going out. Basically, this is diversifying your maturity ladder more than anything else.

The so, again, the the two year right now is at right about $3.60. The three year is right about $3.60. The portfolio at the October was yielding $4.28. After what we're doing here in November, I estimate it's gonna be right around just under $4.20. Again, you don't have maturities coming off for a while, so the impact is is I would expect the yield would be fairly similar to where it's been for the next month or two. So you got to help me

here. Okay.

Okay. So I think we need

a motion. I will look to the board for action.

Mister chairman, I'd like to make a motion to implement recommendations of our financial advisor based on reports submitted today and recommend the clerk implement the said board's recommendations.

Second.

Motion second. Any further discussion? Seeing none. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed, like sign? Seeing none. Carries unanimous. My biggest takeaway from all that was the lack of a CPI being published and how troubling that's going to be to the state CFO and his calculations.

I know.

I did read that off.

I don't

know what he's going to do.

Yeah. There's nothing to do. And if if it makes you feel any better about what's happening in Florida with all the rhetoric and things going around, we're experiencing the same

thing in my state

as well. We seem to be taking a

Great state of Texas. That's right. Yes, indeed. Good. Thank you.

Thank you all. Have a good Thanksgiving.

Travel safe. Appreciate it. Have a good holiday. Alright. Now we will go to our consent agenda. And, if anyone is here that desires to speak on the consent agenda, please make sure you fill out a form in the lobby, bring it up to Ms. Dominique, the clerk, yellow form. She'll have that and we'll call you up as the time is appropriate. Please put the item in which you desire to speak on so we make sure that you're speaking at the right time. I will go to the, county attorney for the rules of engagement of public participation. Ms. Latour.

Ms. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Florida law provides that members of the public shall be given a reasonable opportunity to be heard on propositions before the board of county commissioners except when the board is acting in emergency or ministerial matters or conducting a meeting exempt from the requirements of the sunshine law. Individuals shall be permitted three minutes each for public comment or six minutes when the individual is an official representative of a formal association or group.

The chairman may modify the maximum time for public comment at his sole discretion when appropriate. Public comments on quasi judicial or other public hearing items will occur during the board's consideration of those items this afternoon. Public comments on pending procurement matters or on non agenda items shall not be permitted at this time. Members of the public desiring to make public comment must fill out a speaker form and present the form to staff, and forms are available in the lobby. Mister chairman.

Thank you, miss Latour. Mister county manager, do you have any revisions, changes on your consent agenda, items five through 26?

Yeah. Thank you, mister chairman and commissioners. Just two, items. I'd like to pull item number 11, and I'll be bringing that back to the board, at our next meeting. And just a clarification on item number 17, which is the criminal justice center. I handed out before the meeting started the value engineering items. This was not in the the backup in the packet, so I just wanted to make sure it was a part of the record. And we're joined by chief judge Chase here. She's in the audience, and I just wanted to thank her. She's really worked hard with our staff to value engineering this project to get this under budget. So I just wanted to ensure that this was a part of the record.

Good stuff. Good work. We appreciate the judiciary working with us hand in hand on behalf of the taxpayers. This is a huge, huge saving. So thank you all very much. We appreciate it. Alright. I will go to the board. Does the board member have any item they desire to pull for separate consideration? Commissioner DeLore? Mister chairman, if there's no objections, I'd

to make a motion to approve two through 26 excluding 11 and including the item that the county manager talked about putting into item number 17. The addition to 17? Correct.

And less item four, which we've already dealt with? Yeah. Less four as well. Okay. I have a motion.

Second.

Second. Mister chairman. Does anybody else have anything to be pulled? Was just wondering about Yeah. I'm going there now. Nothing else? Commissioner Lockhart?

No, sir.

Alright. Let's go for public input. Do we have any folks from the public that wish to speak on these items?

No, sir.

No public input? We will close public input and go back to board action. We have a motion and second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed, like sign? Motion carries. Thank you all very much. Next item up is our work sessions.

This will be item number 27, parks and recreation update, mister Rick Derr. We'll give you a moment to set up mister Derr while folks are leaving the chambers. Thank you all for being here today.

Good to go.

Yes, sir. Alright.

For the record, Rick Durer, Parks and Recreation Department, director. I apologize. I woke up this morning a little bit under the weather, so, I I figured that will keep me, one, focused to get to the end so I can go lay down. Or if I pass out, then it'll quickly come to an end, and I think everybody's a winner at that point. So with that being said, the last time we were before you to talk about, just in general, department and what we've been working on.

It's been since February. So there's a lot of things that we wanted to update you on. We'll do a brief department overview, as well as some highlights in our operations, some key initiatives, and give you an update on some of those, as well as what our future opportunities and challenges look like moving forward. For those that wonder where who who is within Parks and Recreation, we've got folks from Extension Services, our Library Services, our Recreation Division, Trails and Parks, parks, and those particular folks. So Bill Pandos is the division manager. Wait wait to everybody. There you go, Bill. Of our trails and parks division. Mandy Salazar, in charge of recreation. Christine Patton, libraries.

And Shane Michael in UFIFAS services. Our administration office, Jacqueline, she I like to refer to her as the boss. She continues to allow allow us to operate within budget and so So I really appreciate the folks that as part of that leadership team that are here today and really continue to sing their praises. Number one is we did receive our our national reaccreditation moving forward. And, the CAPRA process holds us to 154 standards of excellence.

We we achieved a perfect score last year, and we're awarded that. And then just looking at the, the stats and figures, out of over 10,000 agencies across The United States, there's just barely over 200 that have this national national accreditation. So we really appreciate the work of all of our staff who continue to work through that process. In addition to that, we are able to celebrate with you the Florida Library Association naming the Seminole County Library, Library of the Year this year. And that's going against some of the biggest systems here in the state.

So we again give our staff credit and the kudos for achieving that moving forward. But the bottom line with with all everything is we've got a very diverse group of public servants, over 200 individual souls throughout our department, who serve the public seven days a week on a daily basis, and offering everything from library services and early childcare reading, to classes on making your own and managing your own budgets and food. So we really appreciate all the work that they do, and we can't do anything any of these things without their incredible dedication. So I really, really, really laud our staff, and it continues to be an honor for me to work with them on a daily basis. So just by the numbers, our operations, again, I talked about being diverse.

We're also diverse in locations. We have staff based at 17 locations throughout the county. A number of, as you see the list on the screen, different types of facilities that we maintain and staff, a lot of them seven days a week throughout the county. And we maintain the paved trail system, the unpaved trail system, and all of our natural lands within our natural lands program going forward. All told, again, a very diverse and eclectic group of services that our folks deliver.

This is our dashboard, if you will. It was a manual dashboard. This particular time, we're moving towards, and I'll speak to this in just a moment, going to some maybe a way to automate some of this. But we track all of this data every year. At the end of each fiscal year, we initiate what's called the community impact report, and we make that available to to the board, to staff, and to the public in general, so that we're able to count exactly the types of services they delivered and how many folks that we were able to serve throughout the course of the last calendar excuse me, the last fiscal year.

So everything from, you know, extension services doing almost 500 separate educational classes moving forward, to tracking in our recreation department, our partnership with tourism in delivering over 55,000,000 worth of economic impact based on the events at our facilities. Our partnerships goes beyond that. It continues to be working with the cities and with school district on a on a continuous basis to make sure that we don't have any necessarily duplication of services, and we continue to overlap and provide quality services throughout the year. We also have a lot of other folks throughout the county that we that we need to say thank you to. And everything from our different volunteer groups and all the volunteers that we have working through parks and recreation, to our some of

our

nonprofits and all the way down to a number of our, advisory committees that this board, appoints members to, and they're able to, again, provide and be a sounding board for us out in the public. So we really appreciate those partnerships throughout the course of the year. So it's been a busy last five years, if you will. This is just a highlight of some of the, the major initiatives that we had had, throughout that. We'll talk a little bit about some of those, finishing an ADA transition plan in parks and libraries to actually creating the latest or the newest park system master plan, the library services master plan, which is the first in about thirty years, and an update to the trails master plan.

Those master plans moving forward, while they take a lot of time and a lot of effort to put forward, help identify where our existing needs are, and then talk about implementation of strategies moving forward. So the library system master plan, for example, listed a number of items that we will focus on within this next decade, and we named a lot of those projects within the infrastructure sales tax, and we'll be continuing to work those moving forward. In the meantime, we've had a lot of things to celebrate and a lot of projects that were already underway and continue to move forward. So everything from, the grand opening of the kids zone in our largest library branch to continuing to work on the renovation of Building 302 to collect the carriage collect to collect the carriages and put those on a public in a public space, for the for the folks there to appreciate those at the museum. Our library services master plan, again, talked about a five, ten, and twenty year horizon, and it prioritized the types of projects that we will continue to look at and move forward as we plan the future.

Our Trail System Master Plan, that was completed back in 2022, and the update to that, it highlighted a number of projects that we already had in production as well as some, needs that we had, moving forward. And we've been happy to say that over about the last year and a half, utilizing both third generation sales tax funds and looking forward to future projects in the fourth generation, such as finishing up the Silver Lake Park Trail Loop, the San Lando Park Trail Loop, just to name a few. We'll continue to work forward and continue to work with our partners at, FDOT and in Metro Plan as we continue to to plan the future of potentially a new regional trail moving through Seminole County. This is a map of some of the state's regional trail system, and as you see, a number of them, if you can see right up underneath there, the green shaded area, that's us on the map, a number of these already moved through our trail system, and we'll continue to see other folks plugging into our trails to make regional connections. One of the new initiatives, and this came back before you back in May, was a letter of support for what could be called the Lake To Lake Trail.

We continue to work with folks at the state level, the Florida Trails Foundation, and our partners and neighbors next door to continue to move this idea forward and to have this recognized at the state level as a new regional trail. Why is that important to us in Seminole County? It immediately puts us eligible for sun sun trail dollars that we can then plug into and help offset some of our own costs as we continue to work on priorities within our system. Our park system master plan, as part of our reaccreditation process, was adopted in early twenty twenty four. That's the last time we we discussed this with you.

We had a number of initiatives at that point. Number one is making sure that we're providing high exit high quality parks and and initiatives for all of our residents. And then some of that included making sure that we were targeting future areas for parks development where we identified geographic needs within our system, where folks insert in particular neighborhoods do not have easy access to green space or to recreation facilities. So we have those big bubbles that were on the screen as part of the the park system master plan, and that has helped us to identify a number of properties that this board has approved and moved forward, and we really appreciate that leadership in that in that regard. So where the property acquisition of the w the equestrian facility was to provide a space for us to eventually expand Sylvan Lake Park.

That will deal with one of the items that we've had in our master plan in in identifying needs. We have the adoption of a new passive park at a at a previous maintained county stormwater facility with Lake Wildwood, and that was officially blessed by this board. The lavender parcels just next to Redbug Lake Park will allow us to eventually, over time, expand that facility. And then last but not least, the entire Yarborough Ranch acquisition of working with this board with the state of Florida on the acquisition of that through the Florida forever program. That was a huge, undertaking.

And with your support, we're able to work with the state to bring that through through fruition. The spin off of all of that is that as the Yarbroughs were looking to divest themselves of certain properties, they then turned around. And later on, we accepted a donation of 30 acres within the, Saint Johns River area, and then the last final five acres that we can add into the Lake Harney wilderness area. And we really appreciate their donations in those in that regard. Some of the major initiatives that are moving forward as we speak, the indoor recreation complex, we brought before you the selection of Pizzuti.

I believe it was the last meeting. We are working on finalizing their scope of services so that we can kick off this project much sooner than later. And we had a meeting with them on Friday just last week to go ahead and complete their initial purchase order proposal. So that will be coming back to you much sooner than later as we move forward. Deer Run, we've had a number of stabilization, projects that we've completed out on that property, and that included cleaning out the clubhouse.

On the consent agenda today was was approval for the first utilization of the MSBU dollars to rehab the, the clubhouse building as we had in the plan from the start and make sure that we can move forward with whatever renovations that are needed so that that can be opened up for public use. At the Bumba Sports Complex, currently, we have a project underway that took years of planning and lots of savings in the tourism development tax piggy bank, putting those in reserve for the eventual replacement of the artificial turf at the sports complex. That project is well underway. It is currently under budget and ahead of schedule. So knock, everything here that will continue to meet on time.

The deadline on this was to get us ready for January 2026, and at this point, we're in really good shape. The other thing that happened that you are all knowledgeable of and and we like to be able to enjoy this is to celebrate the fact that Newsweek magazine's Fans Choice listed the Boomba Sports Complex as the number one youth baseball destination in America this past year. And working with tourism, we've now begun to announce that to our parks visitors at that location. Overall, we've had a really good year in terms of the number of tournaments that we've had at our various locations throughout the county to the tune of, again, $55,000,000 worth of economic impact. Working with our tourism partners this year, we had the Florida State, Athletic Association softball championships that were held at our facility at Soboomba Soldiers Creek, and then we had the NCAA division two tennis championships played right here in Seminole County earlier this year.

So we continue to enjoy both, healthy backlog of tour of tourism events as well as local, and state championships moving forward. Wekiva Golf Club continues. We continue to do projects out at Wekiva. We've had a number of projects completed. You see on the list off to your left, probably the single largest project that we had there was a complete system replacement on the irrigation system.

Really hard to play golf and without any grass. So we had to make sure that that was being taken care of. That project was successfully completed, and I'll show you the rebound effect that had on the ability for us to, hold additional rounds of golf. So putting everything out on the table. In fiscal year twenty two, twenty three, we had a quote unquote normal year where we're looking at operationally a net income of about a of just over $175,000.

We knew that we would take it on the chin operationally because in order to do the irrigation system replacement, you can't have folks playing golf at the same time you're digging holes in the ground. So we saw obviously a decrease in the overall net income for that year. It wasn't actually as bad as we had predicted in terms of the worst case scenario. In the full calendar year since that replacement is done, you see the rebound of what we had. We've seen an increase in the round of golf rounds.

We've seen an increase in the accolades that this, this property receives online. And then final numbers that came in for fiscal year 'twenty four, 'twenty five show us in a nice net income balance with the operation of that facility. Either way, if you're interested in playing around the golf, you can go to Golf Now online or you can go to the website address there on the screen and book your tee times now. And it's we continue, like I said, continue to get good props from the community and from the players there at that location. So what's in our near future aside from all those projects that are still in process?

We'll be bringing back to you the guaranteed maximum price or GMP, working with Collage, our contractors for the Rolling Hills GMP. As a matter of fact, this afternoon, there will be a host of folks, staff from the county in parks, public works, and utilities at Collage's office pouring through the numbers on that GMP to get that ready and bring back to you as quickly as we can. We've got more more work coming on the Rosenwald property that continues, that we continue to work with our partners and facilities. WB Equestrian Center building itself, that's something that was discussed at your last meeting regarding the fourth generation sales tax projects. We'll have more refinements on what that plan looks like coming forward, as well as we'll continue forward with the MSBU expenditure on the clubhouse renovation at Deer Run.

Our similar moments this year is really important, and we've moved forward with a contract on this and hope to begin in July. Wow. June, let me try it again, another j word, January. Alright. Breathe deep.

At these particular facilities and why this is important for us to move from the older kind of typical incandescent sports lighting to the more LED energy efficient fixtures is the conservative estimate on the impact on our general fund once we complete this project funded through infrastructure sales tax, is we could see up to a 145,000 savings just in our energy consumption bill across the board. Other major projects that we continue to have on tap and we will continue to move forward include renovations in neighborhood green space. We'll continue with library renovations and expansions and modernizations of our service delivery, and we'll continue to work at making sure that we're getting the biggest bang for your buck in our sports youth tourism market as we move forward. Technology and technology opportunities that we're looking at. We've the reason why I show you the GPS field painter is that is a robot paint machine that has cut down our the amount of time that our staff has to spend by almost 90% of the time they spent just trying to line the fields by having this wonderful programmable robot that will put the lines down.

We're now looking for ways that we can create efficiencies within our department of using both AI technology and being able to track the users of our property and move to that next generation of patron tracking, as I mentioned, and making sure that we are moving forward with the technology and the ability to identify efficiencies. And last but not least, we'll continue to work through the fourth generation infrastructure sales tax on all of those items at which we had picked out as needs within the community. We'll work on continuing to refine priorities for the department, and then we'll be bringing back those to you in the near future. So with that

Great. Thank you, mister Dirk. Any inquiries from the board? Commissioner Her.

So just four easy questions, I think. Are we keeping an eye on the Volusia County plans for their recreational tourism programs?

Yes. We are.

And are we is the plan to work collaboratively with them?

To some the short answer is yes. And we've got a great relationship with their parks department up there, and, Tim Bailey and the director, has done a fantastic job of us checking in with each other and continuing to get status updates. Yes?

Yeah. Think the opportunities for synergy are significant, given the proximity. Tee time pricing at Wekaiba, how is that decided?

I'm turning around looking at the one person I did not introduce, which is our deputy director, Michael Wirzig, who plays regularly at Wekiva. You wanna you wanna talk about your experience on that? Sure. Come on.

For the record, Michael Worsing, deputy director for Parker Recreation Department. So the part of the contract with golf with Down to Earth is that they set the fees based on averages across the country. So they have the authority to basically raise them based on peak time. Obviously, you we're coming into the peak time in January, February, March. Golf obviously drops in July and August when it gets hotter. So they set them there. They set their rates based on the average, and they're right around the average. I play as much as I can with my kids don't have sports. But the they're right in the middle of the average there. They've been able to increase the fees based on the condition of the course, and driving in.

And again, as Rick mentioned, if you look at the Golf now, it's an app. You can see the last probably couple of months, almost all the ratings have gone from two, three stars to four, five, and they've basically pointed out the condition of the course. So they are set by the management company.

Okay. I'm going to assume they're set by the company with oversight by us since we're making the investment in the increased

That is correct.

Viability. And we're keeping an eye on that given inflation and given demand. Absolutely. Those prices look like they're barn burners to me. Don't know, but I do know the prices of golf.

Yes. So we continue so every month, we receive a new report on the breakdown of the entire budget across the board. So yes, at least on a monthly basis, we're getting those reports and analyzing all of them.

Commissioner Her, if I could

Sure. Comment ahead. On Commissioner Lockhart?

I believe the same management company that manages Wekiva also manages the Mayfair Country Club. Those prices are very similar. And so I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to the folks who are here from the city of Sanford. Mr. Lassard and Mr.

Uzzi are both doing an incredible job with the Mayfair Country Club. I know it's not ours, but it's in my district and it is almost literally in my backyard. And so I feel like I have to say they are doing a grand opening for the new Mayfair Country Club on December 6 from two to four. So another wonderful space in our community that is seeing huge increase in usage. It'd be interesting to compare since they're the same management company how that is working.

Fourth gen Midway Parks. Do we need anything in fourth gen for Midway Parks to complete all of that?

The short answer will be yes. Right now, probably the the next project up is the the Midway Trail Loop around the Large Lake. Currently, we're working with one of our on call contractors to give us a construction manager at risk proposal. That is in process as we go so that they can marry up what we've committed to in design versus what we currently have in the budget so that we can then say, all right, here's the only piece that we need left in order to complete that. So that's in process as we speak.

Okay. And then my last comment is that I realize that the summer camp programs maximum capacity, and I would tell you that that's probably one of the single greatest things we can do for the community is figuring out how to help working parents deal with kids over the summer educational environment that's affordable. It is a huge family stressor, so probably needs some focus.

Absolutely. And one of the things that we were very thankful to be able to bring to you earlier this year is an expanded partnership with the school district on the use of the nature center at Spring Hammock. It's right there in the heart of the county. Right now, we're working on a staffing plan to exactly figure out how we can maybe expand and double our EcoCamp at breaks and especially over the summer, and maximize that. So, basically, we could again, we're sold out within minutes every February when we post summer camp. But being able to find a way to both manage the cost and then be able to double the opportunity for folks in the county to attend our summer camps.

I can tell you that if you do the math, most parents spend more on summer camps than they do on college.

Absolutely.

Think about that.

Yeah. Absolutely.

Can't get student loans.

Yeah. That's correct. That is correct.

Commissioner Costine.

Thank you. Could you elaborate a little bit more about the libraries and the library system and our plans? A couple of years ago, maybe it's been even more, we had the report, and, you know, there were some real needs that were identified. And when we were talking about the Gen four, we didn't really talk a lot about libraries and that. So could you give me some information about that?

Absolutely. So when the the project list was being put together in terms of what could be on the fourth gen list, and then thankfully, the the our voters voted to approve that. We took the recommendations that were in the master plan and moved those forward and said based on the priorities that were established in that report, as you had mentioned, these would be the early projects out of the gate. One of those is both the expansion of our technology and being able to create remote kiosks in areas where you maybe had that they're a much further drive away from our existing, libraries and being able to have folks check those out. Our libraries have implemented that service, sort of the Dropbox service at one to five library branches.

We were able to use dollars out of COVID, and that has really worked well for folks. And what this would do is allow us to then expand the key up into a kiosk service in other areas of the county where they again have a much longer drive to to reach. In terms of our actual library buildings, we've had a lot of work that's being done by facilities right now on deferred maintenance items, including, the infrastructure at those libraries, also including the AC units, those are on the the master list of of being able to diagnose and replace. I'm happy to say that those continue forward as we speak as well, so we continue to upgrade those facilities. But one of the things that the report did mention is we do have a lot of just physical needs at each of the five branches.

One of them is space, especially was identified in the East Branch Library in Oviedo and looking at a potential expansion to that. So we've got those projects identified. They're on the list for funding, and we'll continue to move those forward through the discussion, as we go through and prioritize what the next decade of spending looks like.

You.

Commissioner Lockhart?

My heart's always with Parks and Recreation. Always.

Congratulations.

It's incredible the amount of things that you accomplish with, quite frankly, not a whole lot of resources. So you continue to knock it out of the park time after time. It's incredibly impressive. Love the economic development ROI. I think we need to continue to talk about that not just in this room, but regularly.

I think it was one of the things that was most misunderstood and most misrepresented during budget time of the amount of investments that we make into our parks and recreation and keeping that going and making it top notch and having it be the best in the country, the amount of return on that investment, we we can't talk about that enough for our citizens to understand what a a great return on their their tax dollars. And so that's one thing. The other thing, it was funny. Yesterday, we did our master plan conversation at Seminole State. We adopted it.

And the first thing that came to my mind is, oh, look, another master plan. And right? And so oftentimes, they go on a shelf, and then when we're ready to redo a master plan, we look at it again in four years before the fifth year is up. And so I challenged our our team at Seminole State and us as a board of trustees to keep it on our forefront in every decision we make. Every time a shine and I used I and I stole shiny object too.

You know, we just tend to see these shiny objects, and they look good and and but we need to be confronted in a positive way every time we go to make a a large capital investment that what we are doing is tied back to the plan. And if we decide we need to change the plan, let's at least address the fact that we are pivoting away from the plan that we adopted and we said we wanted to do. So I would I would give ourselves that same challenge as we head into this new year. I think we've done our team, our our consultants, this board has done an amazing job of setting a path forward and we need to need to try and stay the course. So thank you for all you do.

Thank you. And again, I personally appreciate the kudos, but I immediately try to kick them back to our staff. Again, I can't say enough about our staff and what an incredible privilege it is with me to with for me to work with them on a daily basis. That's a big reason why I come to work every day. So thank you to the staff. Yeah.

Commissioner Gulare. Thank you,

mister chairman. I would like to continue to expound on what commissioner Lockhart was talking about, not just on the economic side. And that is very important so that the citizens do realize and understand the investments that we're making and how it it not only benefits them, but their family, the community. But one of the things that you talked about today was the accreditation, Rick. Accreditation not just holds we just don't hold ourselves accountable.

You just don't hold the department accountable, but we hold it accountable through national standards. And I think that's very important to not only talk about, but to celebrate because not all organizations do that. And to have an accreditation that we've now been reaccredited three times, that's not an easy feat. A lot of times people do get into this and they realize how difficult it is, so a lot of them don't go through it. And then when they do go through it, they do get accredited.

A lot of times they don't re accredited because of the complexity of it and how it really keeps you focused on what's important. So it's important for us to thank not just you but your entire staff. And as you just said here today, there's a lot of people behind you, a lot of people not here today that makes this happen. So please, on behalf of the board, thank them for their fine work. And every time that any one of us goes throughout the park system, and I know we all do, the attention to detail that each one of the staff people have to reaching the goals and the objectives and taking care of business is truly noted. You all do such a wonderful job. So thank you.

Thank you. I'll be sure to do so.

Yeah. So, mister chairman? Just to follow-up on that. I'm most thankful for several things. Since the day I started here, my first budget session, there were millions of dollars of capital improvements that have been deferred in our Parks and Recreation.

Those are assets that the taxpayer had already paid for. Money had been spent and then pretty much ignored because there was not funding there to do so. I applaud your folks for being able to find that money, get it programmed into the budgets, and get those taxpayers' dollars protected. It's one thing to spend the taxpayers' dollars, but once you've spent it, we have a maintenance obligation to protect those taxpayer dollars. Great work in the last five years in doing that.

I would also be remiss in not saying that we've watched our Parks and Recreation Department develop, and we've asked them to do a lot more than what a Parks and Recreation Division actually does. I think folks would be surprised to understand some of the things that you're charged with caring for, like some of the roadway medians, the maintenance, the planning, the sprinkling or irrigation, and making sure those are maintained properly. But then we threw the Florida Forever program in your lap, on the Arbor Ranch, that you've never done, and arguably nobody in the state's county has ever done. So great work on taking what we ask you to do, and getting such a great outcome for the citizens. So good work for you and all of your staff.

It's wonderful to see the progression in the last five, six years. The question I have is, in your presentation, is it possible, because we have so many state owned lands and trails within our area, can you give us a economic impact going forward of what those are bringing as well? Because a lot of the state lands, equestrians use those where they may not necessarily use the county's trails. But they're coming here, they're spending money, they're part of our community. It'd be nice to know what the economic impact, if we can gather that, as well as the amount of acres of state owned land, as well as the amount of miles of state trails.

And I realize some of those overlap. That is a good marketing tool for people that would come here. We're already the the Orlando MSA area is already the number one sports tourism destination. And it's because of the things that you have done and this board has blessed to fund and that economic impact that helps offset the tax burden on the citizens of this county at the end of the day because it falls a lot on the commercial entities and that revenue that's generated. And I think, I think it was commissioner Lockhart that mentioned, we must do a better job in explaining to the public the cost and the benefits of some of these sports complexes that we endeavor upon, so that they clearly do understand, what the offset benefits are to them.

So good work. Appreciate it very much. If there's no other questions, I'll go and see if there's any public comment. Anybody here from the public desire to speak on this item?

No, sir.

Thank you very much. Then we'll close public input and move to the next work session.

Mister chairman?

Yes.

Just one Sure. Follow-up on what you said. When you're doing that analysis, I think it's important to recognize I think it's important to recognize that when you have the conservation and open space areas, that it benefits the valuation of the homes around it. So that is, and that was clear when we purchased the Rolling Hills and how much increased value those homes had. It has happened in other places. So if you're going to do that analysis, that, I think, is clearly an important part of that overall project.

Yep. Agreed. And one other thing, if you could put in your presentation next time, how much money is the golf course returning to the taxpayers on an annual basis?

$65,000

last three years. Yes, last time I looked it was somewhere in the 60 ks over the last several years. But that needs to be pointed out. We hear a lot of comments, well, you bought a golf course on the taxpayers' dollars. Well, it was ARPA money to begin with, number one. Number two, it's returning money to the taxpayers to offset some of that burden. So good work. Thank you very much. So we'll move to the next presentation, which is a seminal forever, and this is mister Durer as well. Do you need a break, mister Durer?

I'm still standing here.

Okay. Yeah. Thank you.

Okay. Let me get reset here. Okay. So the outline of today's work session and update on the Seminole Forever program, we're gonna give a little bit of a summary on the program background so that the folks that are both here and watching on television, again, get a refresher as to the the background of this program. We'll go through the 10 applications that have been scored.

We'll talk about how they were scored and why they were scored the way they were, as well as a ranking. And then we'll talk about how we use not just Seminole Forever, but how we combine this tool in the toolbox with other tools that are there, whether it's Florida Forever or Florida Communities Trust grants, LWC excuse me, Land and Water Conservation Fund grants, and how we might be able to piece together a way forward on these applications. So, again, just a brief overview. The actual ordinance for this program was approved in August 2023. By the 2023, you all had appointed the application review committee, and I will officially call them ARC as it moved through the presentation, so that's an acronym again.

Their task was to then move forward with creating a evaluation criteria based wholly on the adopted ordinance and some of the operations of, say, Florida Forever and how they approach things, so that we, again, weren't weren't reinventing the wheel on some of this. And then we had our first nomination cycle for folks that had, an interest in potentially selling or being part of the program that was extended from December to January earlier this year. So as I've said, we had nine applications coming from the public, plus one that we we had added by the county for at least consideration as we move forward as to how this could be impacted. Each ARC member did conduct site visits to all of the properties as well as staff. And just to let you know, the number of publicly advertised meetings that the ARC had held since January is the number twenty, two zero.

They met 20 different times, and the last several of them being right here in the chambers where we met with each of the applicants on their property as well, and they were able to participate in the scoring process. So first off, if we have members of the ARC here in the chambers, if you would sheepishly stand up and and be recognized. Thank you. Thank you so much. The the amount of work that was done both working with the ARC and between our staff has been incredible to be a part of.

These have we have dedicated volunteers on the ARC, and they've just been fantastic to work with and really, really digging down into the weeds on these to make sure that everything that we can possibly think of is addressed as we move this program forward. So again, many thanks to our seven member ARC committee. So the 10 applications that we have, I'm not going to go through every single one of them on here. I'm just showing you geographically speaking, we go from east to west, north to south. We've got some potentials in the urbanized area, if you will, or in the core population center.

And we also have some applications from folks who own tracts of land that are within the rural boundary area. And then one is right on the line, literally right on the line, and that's the Bukos property just Northwest of Chuleoda. So why is that important? Well, we're going to go through the scoring on this. And after much deliberation and working through the criteria, the ARC established a system of major categories that are written within our ordinance and then assigning point values to those.

And there was lots of discussion about how many points and and so on and so forth, and looking at other, similar types of grant programs, throughout the state. And the art came up with a consensus on a total possible point, total of 50 points for each each particular aspect of each application. Now a couple that I wanna highlight, and especially as we talk about this program in relation to the Florida Forever program and our experience with the Yarborough property, was taking a look at the established Florida Wildlife Corridor and the importance for that. And I don't wanna say it's a simple thing to do, but hopefully, we'll simplify that discussion with a with a map. And that's taking our map that we showed you, the location of all those properties, and then sort of underlaying the boundaries of the Florida Wildlife Corridor as they move through Seminole County.

So that being said, we've got three areas or three properties that are on the East side of the county that are within the Florida Wildlife Corridor as was the Yarborough property. And we've got one, the Parker property, Little Slipper property up on the Saint Johns River, up in the western part, Northwest part of the county. So to some degree, go, well, check that box. Great. What does that mean?

What it means is is that if we're looking for partnerships on these, it makes it much easier to be able to say that, yes, we're within the Florida Wildlife Corridor. And that's been a hot button issue and priority and funding funding at the state level for the last several years, and we'll look at maybe being able to take advantage of those for these applications. The other thing and the comment regarding using the master plan and moving forward, one of the things that we did at the staff level was to say, alright. If we identified where those need areas are in terms of need for green space within both the urbanized within the urbanized area, do any of these check that box moving forward? I think super superimpose those circles, those neat areas on there, and we've got one particular property within this that fits.

That was an opportunity identified by the county called Lawler Property up on the intersection of Orange and Oregon, and we'll talk about that in a minute. But again, being able to utilize that to say, do we have another, aspect where we've got a potential property for sale within an established need area for passive park space. And in this case, we have one. So the ARC went through after multiple iterations and refined their scoring on each of the 10 properties. The ones highlighted at the top of the list are the ones that the ARC recommended and said, yep, we believe these are great candidates for funding for Seminole Forever program, and then here's the point totals associated with those.

The other ones that are still on the list, they'll still they'll still garner consideration as we move forward, but, obviously, those weren't part of the top five moving forward. So what do you do? Okay. Great. So then it became a we've got a ranking in process.

We've got identified program needs, and we have some rough estimates in terms of what we think the property might cost. Again, these are just rough back of napkin. And in all cases, we just ask the question from each of the landowners, where do you think you are in terms of price knowing that it can all change as this moves forward through due diligence. So the place we started was, what do we have in the budget right now? So in our fund, at Seminole Forever Fund, as, non allocated to any to any other project or any other, transaction at this particular point, We have just over 10,700,000 available at this time for allocation to moving the list forward.

So what we did working with the ARC and then its staff, it became a again, going back to the idea that this is one tool in the toolbox. How can we make the biggest bang for the dollars and the investment that Seminole County will will make potentially in these these applications? And then what are the next steps in moving any of these forward? I'll say across the board with every one of these, at no part are we asking you right now that we wanna go out and we wanna spend all this money today, and we're asking you to do so. On the contrary, where we are in this timeline is we're at a junction at which we need to make some decisions on what the next steps are.

The next steps will then, once we have consensus from the board on what those look like, we'll then talk about what the next steps on each of those applications are. Anytime we have to make a decision moving forward, if we move forward with due diligence, we're bringing that information back to you. If we're moving coming back with a recommendation to purchase a property, that's coming back to you for approval. So again, this is a critical time in the timeline of Seminole forever to determine which ones will move forward with partnerships and then how we continue to manage this program going forward. So this particular chart tries to distill down some of the pertinent facts of each of the five properties that rank the highest on the Arc's list.

We immediately start to go, okay, what fits within our budget? And then how do we manage these going forward? And the top two that are on here, High Oaks, which is almost six seventy acres and Lee Ranch, three sixty, we know those are big bigger projects, bigger than than we can take a bite out of out of our current budget. However, based on their characteristics, based on their location, based on their proximity to and within the Florida Wildlife Corridor, we think flat out, these are two great opportunities to move forward for Florida forever application. So far, and to update this, the High Oaks owners move forward with their own Florida Forever application.

And on Friday of last week, we were contacted by the state and said, when would you like to give us an update on where you all are at on this particular property? So that that is already moving forward with the owners and that we will then get back with the state and say, based on the direction given by the board, how involved do we want to be in that moving forward. The Lee Ranch project, that one is a good Florida forever application. We've had discussions with that with the representation of the landowners. It's adjacent to, one of the state forests in the, just outside of Chiliota It would make kind of a great parallel acquisition.

But in terms of management, it makes makes a lot of sense for the state to pick that up. But again, we're not gonna know that until we're able to engage with them formally on these applications moving forward. The Buchholz, which is the third on the list, that is the one that's right on the line, right on 419 in South Oviedo. We've looked at that again. Each one of these properties were visited and analyzed by staff as well as a great opportunity as a future investment in both passive recreation as well as the preservation of natural air natural green space right there on the the border of the rural boundary line in South Oviedo.

DeArcos is a wonderful wonderful 200 acres of Lake Monroe property just east of Downtown Sanford. Directly across the channel where this sits on the Saint John's is another project that is currently managed by the Saint John's River Water Management District. If we decide to move this forward to the next step, we would engage with them and say, are you interested? Should we should we are able to purchase this property in maybe a partnership or having them manage those lands in cooperation with their property across the channel from from this one. And then the last one on the list, Lessard, it's 80 acres directly adjacent to Moat Lake Park.

It is within the floodplain. We've got not just opportunities for a land and water conservation grant, as with the completion of the spring hammock project, we open up another slot. You can only have two active applications in, so we've got spot for that one. And then we recently discovered that we could also engage the Florida Community Trust for purchase based on the characteristics of that property. So at this point, what we tried to do is give you an estimate based on, making sure that we've got dollars to do the due diligence.

So whether it's survey, appraisal, you name it, all the steps that we need to move any of these forward, that we've accounted for that in moving forward with the top five on this list. I'm gonna quickly jump to the bottom five on this list. There are two opportunities that we think, both of which provide some interesting, opportunities for the county. The first one that was ranked on this one was the Parker property. It's a small piece of land right on the Saint Johns River.

We met once we went through this application and analyzed it, we met with Public Works, and it's right on the Lockhart Canal. It makes a lot of sense for a future stormwater project and bringing that into their their stormwater management system. So we would look at maybe taking advantage of other funding to potentially purchase that property moving forward. And then again, it would need to go through due diligence no matter what. The other one is the Lawler piece.

That one came up while the county was looking at having to purchase frontage for the Orange Avenue project. We looked at needing to then go through the due dilate excuse me, the eminent domain. At that point, the property owners who had been operating a nursery on the property had closed down. It was a family business, and they're now willing to sell the entire property for what it would probably cost us less than to go through eminent domain. Again, it's an opportunity whether or not it's right for Florida forever funding or excuse me, Seminole forever funding or another pot, that would be a good one to have, especially since it helps check that box that says we've got a lack of green space in this particular area, and it could become a park in the in the near future or the distant future, however the it falls out.

So those were the 10 on the list. We then said, alright, let's just play this forward and show you how this will work going forward out of the 10.7. Each time we're going to bring back the next step on any of these properties, we'll do exactly what it is we're talking about with our master plan. Give you an update. How does this fit into the program?

Where are we financially with the program? Are we putting away potential maintenance dollars that are needed for any of these applications going forward that we need to commit to based upon the criteria of those programs? So making sure that we're able to then go ahead and update a budget for you so that you can continue to see how we're managing that fund and that we continue to plan for the future and making sure we have dollars in there for management purposes. So today, the idea was to go through, here's where we're at with the entire program. What we're asking for in terms of the next steps is being able to take at least those seven, that we had highlighted on the list and moving those forward to the next step, whether they're grant applications or, regardless, we'll take them through due diligence, directing staff to then start to, look at those through the due diligence process.

And then as I've mentioned, anytime that we're bringing back the next step on any of these, we'll come back to the board to give you an update on both the overall program as well as what the commitment is on each of these properties moving forward. So at this point, we're also basically stating we have plenty of projects in the hopper on this one. We're not in a rush to ask for more at this moment. But should we, we're able to successfully bring a number of these projects forward, however many of them that there are, and where the board is able to decide on making those initiatives, we'll then potentially look at opening up a new round in late twenty twenty six. But again, that's up for decision at a future date. So at this time, that's exactly what it is we're asking, the board for, and we'd like to move forward with this.

So thank you. Thank you very much. We'll go to the board. I first want to take an opportunity on behalf of the board to thank all the members of the ARC committee that have taken their passionate time, on behalf of the citizens of this county and given your valuable input to making this much more streamlined. I can tell you if it came to us, all five, to beat this down and figure out who which one worked best, we'd be here for probably a year. So thank you all very much. We sincerely appreciate it. Alright. I'll go to board. Questions? Commissioner Constantine.

This isn't a question. I mister Durer and I discussed this at length and also getting periodic reports from the ARC committee as they went through their process. I just want to, reiterate what you just said, commissioner Zinbauer. This is probably the most organized, focused, and hardworking committee we have had in a long time. They have done a tremendous job, And bringing these 10 and doing the entire analysis and the point system and everything else, I'm just very proud of every single one of them.

And I I you know, this is so much easier to, you know, work through than, as as you said, if we ever tried to do it. I don't even wanna think of what would happen there. The recommendation, I think, is quite reasonable and acceptable and and the right way to move forward. I do believe that, the first two, obviously, we know we can't even take a huge bite of those apples and that to work and get involved with Florida forever project, especially that they're in the corridor makes so much sense. The next, two, obviously, are, as you said, are very much involved with as part of the Seminole Forever acquisition.

I think in, also, I have heard from others in discussion, the the number five or the Lessard that also has a lot of seminal forever acquisition opportunities and have heard not only from them but from others about how they would be if they were moved forward, how they would be willing to really negotiate. And one of the things in the Florida for or the Seminole forever, ordinance is that preference can be given to those that will be giving at less than appraised value. So I think that's wonderful because that's also something the next two, the Parker and the Lawler, I think are more in line with a, gen four potential and also stormwater funds, although I think that maybe, there is a mix that could be done, especially in the Lalor, the the mix between that. So, I'm not going to make a motion right now because I believe that maybe others would have something to say, but I think the recommendation that has come before us today in that, I'm I'm more than willing to make a motion and move forward with it.

Commissioner Gewari? Thank you,

mister chairman. I would like to expound a little bit on your comments as well as commissioner Konstantin's comments about the art committee. You all did a phenomenal job. I know you all spent many hours. How many hours? I can't even imagine because I've heard from several of you as well. And the fact that you've been so dedicated through this whole process says a lot about you also. And also says that we picked the right people, so thank you. You've done a phenomenal job. And as the chairman said, it would have taken us at least a year, if not more.

And I don't think we've gotten would have gotten this far. But on your recommendations, Rick, and the recommendation from the committee, I totally support all seven of them. I think that is the next step. And we'll see who's gonna be the partners and who's gonna where it's gonna shake out. But I look forward to continue getting your updates as we always do. And I think you're going in the right direction. I think the committee is making the right decisions and working very hard to do all this. I think the the seven that you're recommending to move forward and to continue to figure out where they stand, I think it's a natural step. So thank you.

Thank you. Mister Her.

I wanna just confirm what seven we're talking about. So

the top five as recommended by the ARC, this is that list of the top five. So High Oaks, Lee Ranch, Buchholz, D'Arcos, and Lessard. And then below that that line on the list were the Parker and the Lawler, properties for consideration for other means. Let's put it that way.

That's with my understanding as well.

So if you go back to the first five, I just want to point out that there's one property on there that's 200 acres for $500,000 It's $2.45 an acre. And we're seeking a partnership with St. John's Water Management District for management. I think that one needs to be prioritized just based on price. We would we would absolutely be horrified if we lost that opportunity.

So Rick and I talked about this during briefing, but but it's significant. It's waterfront, etcetera. I do I do agree with the recommendations, and I think that at some point we're gonna be stretched because we're running a race based on timing and answers that are gonna be coming back to the board. So I think this is the first step in what's going to become a more difficult process in terms of decision making. I can't possibly estimate how difficult the process was for the committee to get it to this level, and thank God we have you, let me just say that.

And so thank you, thank you, thank you for all that you did. So as we're going through this, I think there's got to be a timing of how this works and a prioritization in terms of how this works so that we make sure that we're not losing out on unbelievable opportunities for the potential on opportunities that we may or may not be able to execute. That's my two cents worth.

Very good. Commissioner Lockhart.

Reiterate a tremendous amount of gratitude to the committee. I love that we learned some great lessons through the Yarborough process about how to leverage funds, because not every piece of property that is being preserved in Seminole County or could be preserved in Seminole County has to be purchased by Seminole County. Because as we've learned, once we buy it, it's ours to maintain and that cost is what is overwhelming to do it correctly. So partnerships with the state and other state agencies, I think, are critical. So congratulations on figuring out how to best leverage those.

I think it's a great recommendation. I'm excited to see how things flesh out moving forward. I will as as the one I think I might be the one commissioner that has basically the urban core. I don't have any conservation east or west or north in my district. I appreciate greatly the fact that the committee, recognized that the Seminole Forever ordinance was specifically written so that people who live in the urban areas of the county can, access open, land and and green space, because we have a lot of preserved property on the East and the West and the North.

And we welcome folks from your district to come out and visit anytime.

And they do. A lot of them do. And thanks to our trail system, they can do that very easily. But you pack up three kids in strollers and you take a hike out to the Geneva Wilderness Area, that's a plan. You have to plan to do that. If I if I wanna walk a couple miles down a trail with my kids and my dog to get to some open space in a park, that's an entirely different, activity. So we need to have both. I think this county has done a wonderful job planning for both, and I'm glad that we're continuing to do that.

I will tell you that, I rank them slightly different. But there's some outstanding information which we may or may not have at this point. I don't disagree with the list in its entirety. What conversations have been had, if any, with Orange County about what's happening with the adjacent property known as the 5 Bolt Ranch that backs up to the High Oaks. And there was discussion that they were possibly going to seek to purchase that property from the developers.

They're in court right now over development rights. Of course, the state with senate bill one eighty has put everything on hold with their voter approved initiative of their rural boundary. What conversations at all have been had? Do we know anything about their plans moving forward with that adjacent property?

We know a little, but part of this is we need to get a what's the latest update? And we'd be happy to do so with Sure. Speaking with them.

And it was spoken about briefly that the, High Oaks has already started the Florida Forever program. How far along are they? And is is that to mean you're looking to us to do the due diligence financing portion of that, or they already started down that road?

So they the application went in just last month, in October. So it's right at the beginning. Right now, what we're saying is we'll put away dollars for whatever due diligence that we need to help facilitate. And the information that we got from the state just on Friday alone says, hey, we'd like to get the presentation of the property so that our staff can now begin walking it through our process. So we're very, very early on in that.

Okay. On that property, when you guys get deeper into that, and I should have provided this to you earlier, some of the residents that live in and around and adjacent to that property have shared, panther pictures. We have a mother and we have some cubs that are roaming around in that area, which makes sense in that corridor along the Econ River. But I would move personally, I would move the Lessard to Number 3 because it backs up to our county parks. Of course, you got to negotiate.

The one the one I'm really struggling with is the Buckholes property. I really struggle with that. That property was the the reason the boundary was put there is I stood in this chamber as a as a private citizen when the then chair, Carlton Henley, during the rural boundary discussion, having the discussion, they had to draw the boundary somewhere. And it was asked of the citizens, does this make sense? Does this work for you all?

And we said, well, it really didn't make a lot of sense because you got houses you're going develop over here, you got houses you're going develop over there, it's going be sort of like an island sticking out. And that's exactly what it is, but that's where the boundary was drawn. Because it is surrounded with what's there, I don't know, at least my opinion is, it should not be ranked that high. I think your other properties, even some that are below the top five, are more valuable for the intended purposes. But I'm happy to go with the list pending additional information.

But I really would want to know what Orange County's plans are or if they're talking any further about purchasing the Ribault, which would back up to us. Because that's always been the sore spot. Sure. You know, everything slams up against the rural boundary. And we can't change by example on the Buckholes property. You've got density that backs up to it. It's just what's happened because there was never a transition contemplated during the referendum on how that would be handled. And that property's got a fair amount of wet wet ground on it as well. So that's my 2¢ worth of good job. I'm looking forward to further information to help us make those final decisions.

Fantastic. So we'll we'll be happy to get with Orange County. And then with Buchholz, and this goes really for all of these as we move them forward. A big piece of this is going to say, and going to be when we come back to you is, here's what we envision this property could be and how it it could be part of the system. Sure. So part of trying to answer that question is, alright, what is this potential public use at this location? Then we'll be able to flesh that out as well as we move Yeah.

Because you got Lake Mills Park that's literally three blocks away, where you have the recreation ability and capability. But I would point out that earlier in this presentation, those parcels you're looking for for other recreational opportunities, I would only say, even though it's agreed that a great deal of green space is in the eastern part of the county, there's a couple reasons for that. One, the voters voted for it. Number two, there's a great deal of wetland. And to the point of waterfront property, I would tell you that property is water flooded majority of the time. I don't even know that

you could

put a single house on it. But that said, if you look at your maps that you've given on this presentation and previous, I would just say there is zero playground equipment for my children in Geneva. Zero. That is correct. None. They can only go they can't ride their ATVs in the public parks. They can't run their ATVs on the county parks. So they have their limitations that some of the urban core children have the ability to enjoy. So I know it's a whole different conversation, but I'd like to have some conversation of how we plug in because we got a lot of young families that are continuing to come to the Geneva area now. So Sure.

What it's worth. Mister Lockhart?

We all make choices where we live. Playgrounds are important. You you buy near a playground. If you wanna keep a horse in your backyard, you buy in Geneva. Likely, that's everything's trade off in life, but I understand the comments. One clarification on the ranking. Are these ranked?

They're scored. So in terms of the ranking, that's quite simply just taking going from high to low. One thing that we made certain on as we proceeded to develop the ranking criteria is a reflection of what our experience was in Florida forever. So we put together the Arbor application, for example. Theirs their spark did their own ranking, and it was probably the bottom third of their list, and it was a really long list.

So it's that's where it ended up. However, where that where that comes into play is, does it meet the criteria or does it not? And then the next step, which is the step we're in right now, then says, alright, which of these are ready to go? And that's why Yarborough was able to go quickly because we had done a lot of the legwork up front that their staff was going to need to get to, and we provided that to them. So we look at this list as saying, this is what the score was, but essentially, you could look at any of the 10 and say, where does this fit within our program, and who's ready to go, and who's not, and so on and so forth.

So it will help as a guideline to get us this far. The next steps, however, will determine how quickly something gets. So if you wanna call that a priority, that's a that's a different conversation.

I just wanted to make sure because the way that it felt like it was presented to us were these this was the ranking, and these are the top five we're presenting to move forward. Not that the rankings no longer mattered because they they that's what got them there, but they are not being presented to us by the committee in rank order of priority for our process moving forward.

Just by the scoring. So that the actual process will start to shake that out as to which ones are ready to go sooner than later.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay. Fabulous. Thank you.

Yeah. I think to sum it up, don't put words in your mouth. This is the scoring at this juncture of the process. Yes. Next process, it could move. That's the one could move to the bottom. Bottom, it could move halfway, vice versa. Correct.

Got it.

Yes. Commissioner Constantine?

Well, again, I'm I'm ready to make a motion. But, commissioner, I just have to comment that your children are too old to be playing on But I have But but

but I am.

I know. Knew it was. Have two grandchildren. Yeah.

Yeah. I

thought they have a grandfather that would build them a little jungle gym.

Yeah. I

know. Know. A little tree house, a lot of open space out there. Okay. Again, thank you all very much. And I see a lot of the potential per sellers out there, so it's good to see you all here too. I will move the recommendation of the director of parks and recreation and that we continue to move forward in doing some, analysis of the seven, that have already the High Acres, Lee Ranch, Buckholz, D. Arcos. Is that how you say it? D R Close enough.

D. Arcos. Yeah. Lessard, Parker, and Lawler, realizing that some of them, the fur especially top two were already involved with, you know, the Florida forever, and the bottom two, you know, with gen four and and the others in some form of capacity.

I don't wanna put Commissioner, I'll tell you what.

Put that all in your

mouth. I know. I'm gonna put it all. Okay. I'm just saying continue forward. Okay. Wait a minute. Draw out the other stuff. I'll That was a comment more than I thought.

I'll give you a few moments to perfect that motion.

Move forward with seven recommendations to do more analysis.

Okay. Is there any public desires to comment on this work session?

No, sir.

Okay. We'll close public input. Alright. Perfect your motion, sir.

Okay.

Is that possible?

Then we move forward

Come on, Bob. Yes.

Don't do that. Forward with the seven, recommendations to, you know, continue the analysis and bring back recommendations.

Second. Motion is second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed, like sign? Pass unanimously.

Thank you very much. May interrupt? May I just for one moment, and I really apologize for not having done this because she's not here in the room, is acknowledging our special projects managers, Sherry Williams, who has worked with tirelessly with the ARC and the applicants and continues to do so. She would have been here, until I got emergency text this morning that there's a family medical emergency that she is tending to with her husband. All will be well. I believe he might be in surgery right now.

But Oh, boy.

That being said, so our our best wishes to her. But quite honestly, I I we would not have been able to get this far without her tireless work on this project.

So And thank you. And a good person to have that knows this county. Senator Art Probably as good as anybody. Absolutely. So good. Well, thank you very much. You've got your direction. Thank you. Thank you. Alright. That concludes our morning session. Is there anybody else has anything else for the good of the order? County manager, county attorney, fellow commissioners? All good. We shall be in recess to 01:30.

Good afternoon, and welcome back to the Board of County Commission meeting here in Seminole County. The time is approximately 01:30. This is the public hearing portion of our meeting, and I will look for proof of publication, please.

So moved.

Second. Motion and second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed, like sign. Hearing none, carries unanimous. Please disclose any ex parte communication from each commissioner. We'll start to my right with commissioner Her and work our way across.

None to disclose.

None to disclose here? None to disclose.

None. None.

Alright. Our first item up is item 29, LDC amendments, certified recovery residences. This will be presented by Dick German.

Not Dick. No. You know a Dick German?

I'm sorry. David.

This is David.

David German. I'm sorry.

Okay. Because I just want no. This is not Dick Garman.

I was flipping through my paper. So they do

pay they do pay looking.

Alright. Sorry, mister chairman. I just No.

Thank you.

Okay.

Alright. Good afternoon. David German, senior planner development services, presenting with NAISA Portford deputy county attorney. This afternoon, staff is presenting a proposed amendment to the Seminole County Land Development Code. It will amend chapter two definitions to add a definition for certified recovery residences and chapter 30 zoning regulations and to establish a process for reasonable accommodation requests for certified recovery residences. I will now pass the presentation over to Nasa to discuss the implementation and processes.

Good afternoon, commissioners. Naysa Borker, deputy county attorney for the record. Today, we are going to talk about certified recovering residences. Recently, as in last year, the legislature, through senate bill nine fifty four, required all counties and all cities by 01/01/2026 to amend their code to allow for or to establish a process for reasonable accommodations for certified recovery residences. So a reasonable accommodation is not a variance.

It's not a planning activity, and I'll get into the criteria of it of that. But reasonable accommodation requests are set by federal law. The criteria for reviewing them is set by federal law. This criteria has been in place for a very long time now, so it's something that the legislature is now requesting that everybody actually put into their codes even though you were required to comply with it previous to this time. What this will require for Seminole County is changes to the land development code.

We need to add a definition for certified recovery residences that will mirror the state's definition in the statute. It will require an amendment to chapter 30. We're putting it in the land development code even though it's not a planning function. It just seemed like the best place for it to go there as an option for when people are looking for this in our code. So it'll add a new subsection that establishes the process.

Alright. A certified this only applies to certified recovery residences, which are those residences that hold a valid certificate of compliance, and they're actively managed by a certified recovery residence administrator. The cert certificate of compliance is issued by third parties that the state that the state has contracted with to review these residences. So that is a state function. We have nothing to do as to as to whether something certified as as to whether a recovery residence is certified or not.

CCRs have sorry. CRRs have different levels that indicate the type of services that are being provided to residents. They can be just residents that kind of do their own thing. They work in a collaborative environment. They're all typically in recovery.

And to a level of where they're getting more one on one care and oversight for their recovery plan. Everyone that's in a certified recovery residence is considered disabled under the FHA and ADA because they're recovering from they have a form of addiction, whether that be to drug or alcohol addiction, that is considered a disability under the FHA and the ADA. Okay. So who's the applicant? The applicant can be persons who are disabled, so have a disability of addiction, or a provider a provider of services to those disabled persons.

They are people that are recovering from substance abuse disorders, like I said. And to receive the accommodation, they're required to show that the proposed accommodation is reasonable and necessary to afford an equal opportunity to use and enjoy the residents. So the goal here is to integrate people who are recovering from substance abuse disorder into, you know, neighborhoods, into areas that are generally, know, residential areas. So the application comes in to the planning and development division. It must include a description of the common the accommodation that's being requested and demonstrate demonstrate why the request is necessary.

It must include a verification of disability status, and this form is executed by a medical or social services professional, and any supplementary documentation to support the request. The development services director is authorized to review these applications when they come in, and they have to do so within thirty days. That's a statutory deadline. And in their consideration, they'll consider whether the applicant has established that they're handicapped or disabled, whether the accommodating accommodation, as I said before, is reasonable and necessary to provide an equal opportunity to enjoy the residence, whether the request imposes an undue financial or administrative burden on the county, and whether the request requires a fundamental alteration in the nature of the county's regulations. And those two last ones are ones that development services director has to decide from the county standpoint.

What will allowing this accommodation do on a greater level? After the review is complete, the development services director will issue an approval, an approval with conditions, or will deny the request. I'll just add that, you know, in in this period of time, I would love to give you an example of when this would come up. I'm not sure that it that it will come up in the future for the county, but we're required to put this on our books. I'll also tell you that the every the certified recovery residences must still comply with our building and occupancy codes.

So it's not like you can put more people than are permitted in a building in one of these residents, they must still comply with our building code. And by doing this, what we in adopting this ordinance now, we will be in compliance with that January 1 deadline. So the request here is for the board to make a motion to adopt the ordinance amending the land development code to establish a reasonable accommodation process for certified recovery residences, and I'll stand for any questions you may have.

Any questions at this time for staff? Commissioner Her.

I truly thought I understood this based on the briefing, but now I'm questioning myself. So it's a recovery CRR is defined as a recovery residence that holds a valid certificate of compliance and is actively managed by a certified recovery resident administrator. So in that instance, the applicant is for the dwelling or each person that goes there is applying separately and proving disability to be there?

Right. So it can be either So the reasonable accommodation process can apply to individuals. So in this case, it could be either way, I would say. But typically, what you're gonna see is the director, the person that's registered by the state, will be the person providing care to the disabled individuals. And they will have to be the ones to submit the application and also submit verification that they're certified and of the people that are gonna be there.

And this approval, which is something that I forgot to mention, runs with the person, not the land, as opposed to a variance. It's not like if there's a certified recovery residence in this residential home, it will always be that way. It it only is that way if the persons in it are disabled and it's certified by state law and they have the requisite person that's managing it.

And so if the home becomes certified, they lose homestead exemption?

I would assume that they that they would. Yes.

Because it's running as a business.

Right. It's running as a business. Exactly.

They're they're getting I have experienced this in a neighborhood that was very near and dear to my heart. And so

Yes. I believe that it would. It's not these are not meant to be permanent residents. We cannot we are prohibited. The county is prohibited from limiting the time frames for how long people can stay, but it's not meant to be for permanent living. It's more transitional.

But the residents move in and out. The facility stays permanently, for lack of a better word, a halfway house. That's what this is. It's a recovery residence is what we all, in this generation up on this board, would know as a halfway house.

Right. Sober living home. Yeah. Right. Sober living home. Yeah. I I will say that yeah. You're right. It remains that way for as long as the purse it's a certified recovery residence. It's covered by that certified individual.

And subject to all of the rest of our standard codes?

Absolutely. Yeah.

Else? Alright. Is there anyone here from the public that is desires to speak on this matter?

No, sir.

Seeing none, we will close public input and go to board action.

Mr. Chairman? Mr. Delari. I'd like to make a motion to approve the request for staff as presented.

Second.

Motion and second. Any further discussion? All those in favor, aye. Aye. Opposed, like sign. Seeing none, carries unanimous. Thank you very much. And item number 30, staff is requesting it continues to 12/09/2025. What is the will of the board?

So moved. Second.

Motion second. Any further discussion? Commissioner Lockhart?

Yeah. I've read the letter that came from

Department Commerce.

Department of Commerce. I was going to call it DEO, but it okay. It's no longer Department of Economic Opportunity and it's no longer Department of Community Affairs and it's no longer Here's it's the not Okay. I think one of the things that I would like us to pursue, if possible, is responding to that letter and asking them to specifically identify, although they are not the agency with the oversight of this particular piece of our work, Could they please specify in writing what it is they believe is most restrictive or making this more restrictive? I think we all have worked on this with our stakeholders at length, and have done some really deep dives on on this topic.

And I would like them to put in writing what it is that they believe is a concern, if that's something that the board is interested in.

I'm I'm fine with that. Commissioner Her appears to be fine with that. I'm fine. You're trying to Flori's good.

Resistance. Yes.

Costine's good. Good. You have consensus.

Okay. We'll put something together.

Draft a letter.

Would you like it to be for the chairman's signature, for the county attorney's office?

Whatever. Okay. Just what's the problem? Maybe both.

Yeah. I think that probably I'm sorry. Mesa Worker, deputy county attorney for the record. I think that probably, it we have tried getting from the state this answer that commissioner Lockhart is looking for. We have provided them information. We have been unable to do so. So I think a letter from the board, from the chairman

Might help. For the

board would be would maybe go a little bit further than our staff level efforts have went.

Sure. I'm fine with that. Although, every letter that I think this board's written in the last, I don't know, four years, we've never received an answer, even a phone call. But it'll be on record.

And got it.

I agree.

This is

an alternative.

This is senate bill one eighty again.

Unless they sign need something from us.

Well, I mean, you know, if you wanna really have the honest dialogue about this, I think you just do it, let them deal with it. Yeah. If they won't answer and won't respond Test it. You know, test it and see what what teeth they wanna bring forward to make us not do it.

So perhaps I'm fan

of that.

Should be

worded that way. Absent of a response by x, we'll presume that that we should pass the ordinance out.

Yeah. Sure. Perfect. Anything else on that? Nope. Alright. Seeing none, we will move on to

I stopped you under discussion.

Oh, that's right. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed, like sign? Seeing none, carries unanimous. Alright. County attorney's report.

Thank you, mister chairman. I have one item for the board this afternoon. The county attorney's office is seeking consent of the board to pursue legal remedies under five separate affordable housing funding agreements from 2023 against the developer Florida Superior Properties Economic Community Services Inc, SPECS for short. The county had donated five lots in the Midway area to SPECS in 2022 and also contributed a total of $1,000,000 for specs to construct five affordable homes and to secure qualified buyers. And to date, only two of those five homes have received certificates of occupancy.

The other three are in various stages of construction, and all building permits have expired. Communication with the developer has broken down despite staff's best efforts, and so we're seeking the permission of the board to pursue our remedies under the agreement and the mortgages, the agreements and the mortgages that are recorded along with those agreements.

Any questions? Commissioner Her.

I'll weigh in. This is in my district, and I've been working with community services and the county attorney's office. We I I think our best move is to seek all remedies simultaneously. These homes are sitting. The ones that are done are sitting unattended, in midway, and the others are close to being done, and it's just simply wasteful and not helpful to the community. So I would appreciate your support of this directive.

Second.

I'm gonna Motion. Second. Motion and second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed, like sign? Seeing none, carries unanimous. Thank you very much. Anything else?

I have nothing further. Thank you.

All right. Next is County Manager's Report.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. Probably about six months ago, I think it was the Chairman who actually talked to me about business tax receipts and just the status of it and, you know, where where we should we go in the future for this. And so what I wanted to do is I'll have mister Mike Rhodes come up and just give us just a brief overview of what our business tax receipts are, what the statuses of of it is, and then a few options for the board to consider and how to move forward with that.

Alright. Good afternoon, commissioners. Before we get going, I just wanna quickly acknowledge, our tax collector, JR Kroll, and his staff and thank them for their support as we've prepared for this brief presentation for you this afternoon. And they're, I think, prepared to answer questions if if need be. But hopefully, hit the highlights, and and you can let him off the hook for today.

Did you call him in off vacation? You don't have his coat and tie on.

No, sir. This has been on his calendar, knowing how important it was to you.

Welcome.

So, our agenda for today and sorry, I gotta run this thing. Our agenda for today is just kinda give you some some quick background, go over the the process whereby folks have to apply for and obtain their their business tax receipts. Improvements have been made by the tax collector, particularly here recently. And then the current state of business tax receipts both here locally as well as at the state level. And then just give you all an opportunity to talk about next steps.

Like so much that we do in local government, everything we do is rooted in Florida statutes. In the case of local business taxes, it's rooted in Florida statute two zero five. It's important to understand that that statute was adopted after, in in the seventies, after a lot of local governments had already had their, at the time, occupational license processes set up. And the state came along in the I believe it was beginning in the seventies, in the earlier seventies, to try to kinda help particularly, bring a little bit of order as far as renewal dates and things like that. So some of the things that you see in the statute kinda reflect that, original organizational the those original organizational changes, and then some things are a little more recent manifestations, that we can talk about, like, the many exemptions that exist to it.

The process is is kind of mirrored here at the local level. So chapter 45 of the the county code adopts what we, adopts, floor statute chapter two zero five, establishes a renewal process and schedule that is the same across the state of Florida. It establishes, at least in in Seminole County's case, two classes of of businesses, and we'll talk about those more in a minute. And then it provides for a transfer of administrative duties, in the event that we want to and and we have here, to other local governments. I want to talk very quickly just about some focused improvements that the tax collector has has implemented that I think you'll probably see if you haven't visited the website.

I would encourage you to do it. A lot of really terrific information, very transparent, very easy, and and and and customer focused. The tax collector went live with this on May 20 year, and it provides, again, for some online reporting and application processes and other things that are that are more, peculiar to the tax collector's role. The the vendor is a vendor called Grant Street, and that vendor provides, tax collector software platforms and services to I believe it's thirty seven thirty seven of the 67 counties in the state of Florida. Wonderful, consistent, easy to use, and and and kind of a credit, I'd say, to the tax collector's efforts to try to make things work better for our customers and our constituents.

Application process is online now. There's also online chat and help. So if you're going through the application and need some help, you can click the chat and and and usually get it. It also provides for electronic payments of of those tax receipts once you complete the application process. And there's a searchable database as I as I mentioned before.

The other thing to to just kinda make note of here is that, and I know we don't wanna get into the weeds too much. The tax collector's got, things to talk to you about, about interlocal agreements at some point. However, these are tools, these online tools are are available now. They were not available when all those interlocal agreements were initially entered into in the early two thousands. So it's just kind of an important important note there.

Let's talk about kind of the current state of of BTRs here in Seminole County. In the tax collectors database now they've got over 21,000 businesses. 47% of those right now are showing as delinquent or closed. And again remember the tax collector has basically taken all that information that was in old systems and put it into this new Grant Street platform in May. So a lot of the information that you're gonna see here is is information that, again, over time, hopefully gets a little bit neater, cleaner, and easier to understand.

But, at the moment, there's 21,000 plus, and and again, half of those are are delinquent or closed. I mentioned to you the two classes of business. Those two classes of of businesses by Seminole County code are class a, which is not subject to government regulation, class b, which is subject to government regulation. Those are your two classes. So unregulated business is a is a landscaper.

It's a florist. It's a, you know, it's a handyman. It's it's it's any number any number of things. Regulated business, examples of that obviously are CPAs and attorneys and architects and cosmetologists and and a lot of other things that require state or federal licensing. It's also important to understand that for the moment, there's an honor system.

So kind of the information that comes in is the information that we get. There are no audits. There are no inspections. There's there's no out in the field kind of validation of of what's going on. And so it's it's kind of as as it's, at least described, as a by the state.

It's a it's a tax. It's a process whereby we receive money and that's really about it. There is municipal licensing that's, that's also a part of this and and, you know, of course, cities around the the state also do this and have different processes, whereby they do it. We have seven, obviously, here, and five of those licensing systems are what I would describe as variable rate systems. So they're not the flat rate like we have.

They're variable rates, and those variable rates could could be tied to seat counts. It could be tied to the number of employees. It could be tied to any number of different things, and there are a lot of different, schemes around around the state for how those variable rate systems operate. And then we have two municipalities here in Seminole County that utilize flat rate systems, again, much like much like we have here. I apologize.

I understand it's a little bit difficult to read. However, again, the information we get is the information we get. And, by virtue of those interlocal agreements, a lot of the application processes are managed by by the municipalities. So the business descriptions in here are important. And I wanna I wanna kinda call your attention to the the bottom third first.

You'll note that near the bottom we we show Seminole County regulated and Seminole County unregulated. Right? Those are our two business classifications. All those other business classifications are business classifications that are self reported. They're not they're not necessarily required, and many of them could be consolidated into either regulated or or non regulated.

But again, based upon the information we get via the applications that come in, the descriptions, are are varied. And would you believe it? I'm trying to see if I can see it on there. I'm I'm not sure I can, but, if you were if you were to believe the numbers here, I believe we have it was either 98 or 99 licensed contractors. Now, we all understand that that's a state licensed, business.

So that would classify as a as a regulated business. However, because of the the kind of differing application processes that we have and the and the, again, some of the age of the data and the database, we've got a lot of different things that are out there. And among those are, for example, when you get down to the other, the other accounts for over 1,100 different business descriptions. So it's a There's a lot of information in there. It's inconsistent.

I know that the tax collectors hope is that as this new system comes online and we gain some experience with it, we can probably bring a little bit more order out of that. But there's certainly some opportunities there to get more and better information out of the system, if it's something that we decide is important to do. Next slide I want to show you is the business tax receipts by year. And again, you can see this is over a ten year period. The collections have varied from a high of $486,000 for almost $487,000 in 2016, to a low this year of $310,426.

Again, some of that we can attribute to the switch over into the new system. Some of it too, I think it's important to note, you can attribute to a lag. I'll just describe try to describe it politely, but a lag in reporting from a lot of our municipal partners. So the information that the municipalities get, oftentimes doesn't get to us for three to six months. And by information, I mean not only the descriptions of of the businesses, but also the remittances that come back to the county for, those business tax receipt payments.

So certainly not what you like to see, but, as I understand it, that's really explanation and and, again, over time, we're hoping that that gets a lot better. This slide is just kind of, again, an illustration of delinquents versus versus paid. It it it has, I think if this this was as of 11/10, of this month, it it has improved as we go along. So some of these businesses are coming in, and there are delinquent fees that are again prescribed by the state in the state statute. So as the delinquent businesses come in, they pay those those delinquent those delinquent penalties, if you will.

So that number gets the delinquent number gets smaller and smaller, but we still have a significant number of delinquencies across, across this, database. The current information we request is pretty limited, and we'll just run run down really quickly. Name, address, business description, and again, remember that's kind of open. The open date for the business itself, and that could be a date in the future, it could be a date in the past, and and, you know, those fees can be adjusted accordingly or prorated. A phone number, email address, corporate information, if there is corporate information, and then a federal employee number or social security number depending upon the nature of the business.

That is the information we get. Not a lot, and we can certainly talk about that a little bit more if you like. But at this point, with all the information in hand, we'll turn it over to you all for any questions or comments.

Thank you very much. Of course, I asked us to come forward because I already did a bunch of this work to know where we stood. In my opinion, it needs to go away, but I will go to the board for questions and inquiries. Commissioner Lockhart?

This is this is business tax receipt two point o because we discussed this under a prior county manager many years ago, and we're originally told that we it wasn't within the board's purview to remove business tax receipts. So that was something that was required, by state law. Think is that your recollection of how

that Correct.

Started? Okay.

And since it's not the case. Right.

So so so we were working under some inaccurate information at the time. I I I have lots of thoughts about this. I went to get my hair done a couple weeks ago, and my

That's good.

Stylist thank you. Thank you. I did some lowlights too. Good. Highlights. But he shared with me the process that he had just recently undergone because he is in the city of Sanford, and so he had to come he had to get a Sanford tax business tax receipt, and he had to get a Seminole County tax receipt. And the day that he was coming to get the he was coming in person to get the one here, we were doing the the little league and softball. Right? And so he saw, like, a swarm of families out in the parking lot. There were no parking spaces.

He's like, yeah. I'm just gonna come back and do this another time. So, you know, he cut out time out of his schedule to have to do that. So it's not just the $25 or the $45. It's the 25 or the 45 plus the city, plus the time away from your actual work in order to do the process. And I understand there's an online thing now, but, you know, old habits die hard. For the time, effort and energy that I think we are expending, I think having been a secret shopper recently in this process, I believe we are spending more than the 400 and some odd thousand dollars in staff time to try to implement collecting this. And it felt very invasive.

100%.

Right? Absolutely. It just was like, I have a business. I'm registered with the state of Florida. I pay my taxes. Why does the government need to know exactly what I'm doing? Whether I'm baking bread or making jam, what does it matter? Right? It just felt very I don't know. So I am completely on board with looking at either minimizing or eliminating for the sake of streamlining and giving our residents, who are small business owners, relief.

Mr. Gulory? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can you talk to us about the data you collect and what do you use it for? And what data is out there and what you should be using it for? Because that's what this is all really about. It shouldn't be about collecting fees, it's about the data from what I understand.

The the statutory intent, and and I I can't speak to the ordinance, but I'll I'll assume that, you know, we're we're following out of the statutory intent. It's really it is it is intended to collect a fee. Okay. And there's it's not a regulatory tool. It's not intended to be a regulatory tool. It's it's a fee that one could argue, I suppose, is can be justified in a lot of different ways, but, you know, at the end of the day, it's it's a tax. And and the legislature's called it a tax, and and that that's what it's it's what it's titled now, not licensed anymore.

The reason why I asked the question is because I have spoken to a couple of the surrounding counties that did away with this. And talking to some of them, well, at least one of them, they have said that they wish they didn't because they've lost all that data now. And so I'm trying to understand what that data is and what do they use it for.

I would that be would that be what's listed here? I don't know.

That's why

I'm asking.

I the county manager would like to speak.

If I'm asking the question.

Yes. So I've had some experience with this in my past lives that we use. You could use it really for economic development or economic data so you know your businesses, you know how many businesses are in your community. Fire rescue can use it for fire safety, ensuring that, know, that you that the businesses are complying with the fire, you know, safety and the and the current laws that are that are in place. But there's other ways that we probably could gather that. But a lot of I know when I was a city manager, that's what we used it for. We used it just to ensure especially for change of use of buildings that

I I was gonna go there because now you have change of use, and so how do you know if

And to ensure that they're got the right permits and safety and all of that. So that that was an indication for government local governments to ensure that they are they have the right permits to be operating where they are.

So then I have another question, and it could be research because I'm not asking to just throw from the hip here because I know when you do when the county does the ISO, they gotta look at inspections from the public side and businesses. This ensures it actually tells a story about how many inspections you're doing and what business classification you're doing.

This is one tool that we could use for that. Yes.

One tool. I'm not asking today, but I'm asking for the information later on. Yeah. And then also, those other counties, I know that now when you ask what kind of businesses they have, they have no data to refer to. Is that one of the ways you

can get that?

Yeah. Yeah. The permits.

Excuse me?

You can there's other ways to get that data.

Well, I'm asking the question because it's not just the permit side. It's because you get a permit for a building, and then, you know, what kind of businesses go into that building. Right. And then you have use of that building. And depending upon who goes in that building, sometimes crickets are different use and different sprinkler regulations, different inspections.

Right.

And I'm not trying to tell you how to do a job, I just want to know that we're getting as much information as we need as we move forward. And so that's there. And then from the economic standpoint, when business come in, you know, they're going to want to know how many restaurants are out there and what type of you need that information as well. And I'm not chamber of commerce, but how do you get that data?

Yeah. And I I did. I and thanks for that question because I've all this always leads to another question as, you know, the question is getting asked. And I asked Guy Kunia, our economic development director. It's like,

how do you get how do

you know how many businesses are in the county? And this data that from the business tax receipt is nonreliable, so he does not use the data here. Actually reliable that could use it. Yeah. He uses federal I mean, state, he go uses the state information from Sunbiz, and there's different groups that he gets information from and also from federal, if there's any federal type of information he gets. So that's what he relies on. And as well as our economic Orlando Economic Partnership, they have some information too.

I guess the issue that I have is I'm not interested in making it a moneymaker. I'm interested in the data and what do we use that data for and how do we use it. That's what I like to have information about.

And if sorry.

Go ahead. Commissioner Her.

So I I think I just have a little bit of a different take on this. So if you go on my book, it's current information requested. That doesn't have to be the information that requests. That just happens to be the information that we've bothered over the years to request, which doesn't even include a sick code, which is below the lowest standard of any data request for a business ever known to mankind.

So I think they I think that is requested.

It's not on here. It's a description. Yeah.

I think that was requested. And when Because because when you drop down, you had a bunch that you could choose from in the drop down with the codes next to them. And and so I think that's what that was. Okay. Maybe not.

I thought it was either or.

Okay. So so nonetheless, I'm gonna get us back out of the rabbit hole, but but the information could be useful. I guess the piece of this that there's a gigantic piece of missing information, and that is what do we pay for the system that we use to manage the collection of $400 that's now turned into $300, but it's because we have a lag. But what's the net sum that we get, and does that actually pay for the staff that collects it? The answer's probably yes.

But quite honestly, we don't know that. My take on the universe is that I do think businesses have an impact on infrastructure, and I struggle with the notion that only residents would pay for infrastructure. Now $25 doesn't pay for doodle squat. We all know that. But if that helps us figure out where we're supposed to be going to do inspections, that's probably not a bad idea. The fact that we're not using this to the full extent that we should be using it, that's on us.

I would agree with you. Producer Costine?

And and that's what I concur with. You know, my sense of fairness tells me it's either everybody or nobody. And right now, all we've got is half the people, and it's the good guys. Let's you know, that are doing it because it's honor system. So it's the good guys that are doing it, and everybody else either doesn't know it, which I bet most of them don't, or, or, you know, just aren't paying for it.

Are defunct.

Are defunct.

Defunct is in the bucket of Yeah.

And that was good. That was the other thing I was gonna ask. What is defunct? We don't know. Late or defunct? The other thing is is this does this this will not affect the city's abilities to do that because I know that I'm paying it, and and quite frankly, Altamonte Springs pretty aggressive on getting it. You know, I've got I I I commissioner Zimbauer, you're in the same boat, I guess. I've got four or five, you know, notices of when it's due. You know, you better pay it or, you know, Frank's gonna come to my doorstep. But so, I mean, we don't wanna take anything away from the cities.

Right. But, you know, how do they do it and get a much larger percentage if we go that direction? Or as a couple of the commissioners suggest, you know, just just, you know, doing away with it. And then what does that do to, you know, the budget, whether it's ours or, you know, the tax collectors?

My take on it is and and first of all, I must say to commissioner Hers, I assure you my business pays a substantial amount of tax to impact the infrastructure. All of commercial business do. It's not homesteaded. It's not I mean, there is no exemption. I pay as a commercial property, crazy money.

The owner of a business, Highland doesn't. We pay $25 a year. We do pay on time, though.

Sure. But but here's the problem I have with this whole thing. This is a discretionary tax. It's not mandated. It does not have to be collected. I've yet to hear a reason why we're using them. I've heard heard all these reasons how we could use it. But even if we could use it, the ultimate question is what is the enforcement mechanism? You got 47% of the people that are not either paying or defunct that we can no longer find. That's the first issue.

The second issue is home based businesses. Our code enforcement can't even figure out what our home based businesses are, who's doing what. So now you have unequal treatment under the law. So I wanna run a home business. I don't have to pay this because I'm running a home business.

And nobody's knocked on my door and said, you're running the business and you gotta pay. And if I look at the cost so far versus the offset, nobody's gonna convince me that this is paying for anything whatsoever. That that's my multiple concerns. Commissioner Lockhart?

So I will say the the form that you can print out and fill out has different information requested than the online form. They are not the same. So the and so this is where I made a personal choice. Do I wanna fill out the information and then turn it in with a check, or do I wanna do the online form and use a credit card? And it is different information.

And and I and so at some point in time so I will start with the first thing the first question on the online form is, the Seminole County Planning and Development Division has verified your zoning requirements for your business located in unincorporated Seminole County. Please type the date of the verification. So the next thing you do, the first thing I did, was I called Seminole County Planning and Zoning. Poor things. Right?

And so it that then kicked off the next and and the emails back and forth and the time that it took for them to verify my zoning and that which, you know, wasn't really applicable because it's a home based business. And then it was then it was fire. Please confirm with fire that right? So that's the next one. And so then so you go through all of these things and you have all these touch points. It is not merely filling out a form and sending in money. It is time, effort, and energy on the part of our staff and and us. And and and to your point, commissioner Zembauer, I did it. I actually did it. I I spent it took the better part of a day and a little bit more to to to get it done.

And and that's not I'm not, you know, I'm not banging on anybody. It just was what it was. And then I got a follow-up email from the tax collector's office because I wasn't specific enough about the my home bay what my home based business was. Could you be more specific? Sure. So so it is it is I understand the intent of wanting the data. I get it. I'm a data driven person. But if unless we are going to be really, really diligent and become exactly what we in this community have typically said we don't wanna be. We wanna be business friendly.

We wanna be enter you know? I mean, this will require almost a full time person to manage to do it to get the kind of data that we're saying we need. And I don't know that it's justifiable. That's just my it's I understand when you wanna make sure that the restaurant has what they need and the fire code code and all of that. But there we have other places in stock. And

that data is available. I mean

So anyway, that's I just and I don't know what the cities wanna do. Like, I don't like God only knows but but just for us I'm speaking for

us. If commissioner I'm

so prepared to make a motion that we do away with the business tax receipt.

I think there were two hands up before he made the motion.

Commissioner, I did want to, correct something. Home based businesses, as commissioner Lockhart just mentioned, I have two home based businesses and they both pay, you know, this tax. So they do pay.

If they're honest.

If they're honest. Yeah.

And they know.

And they know.

Commissioner Her.

And there

are Yeah. So I'm gonna pass that back to you. Leave your motion hanging. I guess the piece of this that I I still I don't have an opinion one way or the other on collect or don't collect. Let me just state that out loud.

What I don't understand is how can this be this messed up, and we say we're gonna abandon it because it's this messed up without doing a process where we figure out, like, why is it the business's responsibility to tell me when my planning and zoning department did what they needed to do to that's not on the citizen or the business. That's on once the thing comes in, that should be checked by us. We're here to serve the citizen. That's a setup problem. That's a setup problem.

So I don't know how that happens where we implement a system that, quite honestly, we don't even know that's how it's happening. That's that's a little scary. And so I don't I'm not I will not vote yes to do away with it today because I don't think we have a real good handle on what it could or should look like in terms of potentially being useful and easy for a citizen or a business in the community to comply with while at the same time potentially giving us information that would be exceptionally helpful. I don't know that answer.

Mister chairman? Mister DeLaury. Thank you, mister chairman. First of all, commissioner Lockhart, thank you for that information because I didn't realize it was so complicated in that level. And it should be a lot easier exactly like commissioner spoke about.

And I also don't feel comfortable yet saying get rid of the whole program or keep the whole program because I need more information. I also don't think, you know, it's not about the money, it's about the information, but is the information worth having? I'd like to have a deeper dive on staff to give us this information so we can better understand it to make a more comprehensive decision. And I'm in the same ballpark as commissioner Her on this that we need to take a a dive on this to understand, is the itch worth the scratch?

Commissioner Timber. Commissioner Constantine.

Since I hear two to two here, you know, I'm in the same boat as commissioner DeLore and commissioner Her. And I I would just say, this reminds me of sometimes the conversation we had with the code enforcement

Mhmm.

In that, you know, okay. We've got a program that is maybe broken, maybe needs fixing, maybe is just neglected for a while, and I want more information before I throw it in the trash bin. I'm not saying I wouldn't be, you know, amenable to your amendment in the future commission or your motion in the future, commissioner, but I would like a little bit more than a just, you know, let's have it or not have it, and that our I think this is something that our county manager should take a deep dive in or or whatever, a shallow dive, whatever it takes, and bring it back to us with some sort of guidance, direction, recommendation. And so with that, I will make that motion.

I have two motions.

Didn't think you had a second.

I didn't get a second. So I was I was interrupted halfway through. Getting a second.

I didn't read it. So

Well Uh-uh.

I'll withdraw my motion. We'll have commissioner Konsteen's motion move forward.

Second.

And a motion and a second. Any further discussion?

The county attorney raised her finger and the tax collector's made his way to the podium.

My finger was just to help with any procedural issues you were having with motions.

Okay.

Well, good afternoon.

Mister tax collector, welcome.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So I mean and the reason right now is that just we know the system is broken. It's the way we've the way we looked at it now where we've been slowly getting into all the bits and pieces of the different tax departments that we're working on.

And this is one of them that we're now working on to look at and said, the way that it comes from and the way that it was laid out to be, here it is given to the cities, back then pre Internet and pre when it was very widespread, that was why would you wanna go to Altamont to pay your business tax receipt there, then have to drive all the way to Sanford to fill it out again for another one? That was very inconvenient. So they thought at the time, very convenient to have it done all at the city all at one time. Unfortunately, they all have taken their own way of doing it, and they don't have any they don't have any program, no system. It's we literally get an Excel spreadsheet with a check. We have no way to verify any information. We have nothing. It's just whatever they're giving us.

And they're

all they've behind on payments, and this has been a major issue that we wanna now either and I have no teeth in the game either I said, if we if we're going to still collect, I would say, I just wanna be the one to collect it, not the cities, so that we at least have good information. And I'll say, but if you decide not to collect, so be it on that either. It's just easier on my staff. But, you know, we it's not a it's not a huge undertaking on our staff to do. We have the program in place, you know, that we pay a lot of money for for the rest for the rest of the taxes. It's included in there. It's just part of a tax program. So we really would be, you know, hoping that not just not just table this

and say,

well, we'll talk about it later. What we'd really like is to say, we can push it to where we take you know, because it has to be unilaterally. Mhmm. It can't be unilaterally canceled. You have to have each side window. Each one can cancel their own, I guess, but not you know, you have to and the cities are both all deciding that they can only with ninety days notice, we can give notice to say, we're not gonna do it anymore. And the only city, Altamont, is the only one that was giving us pushback. The other ones all agreed. So we could just we could just say, go ahead and have the tax collector collect for now and then decide at a different date as of to when you know, if they wanna table it or not. That that could always be decided later.

But we don't wanna wait nine six, nine months down the road if we're still fighting with the cities to do our collection either because that makes it so much more work on us just because we're trying to to balance things with numbers we don't have information for.

Okay. Any questions for the tax collector?

No question for the tax collector, but just a comment that that would, I think, all be contemplated in the guide that we're asking you to do is to figure out how we work the tax collector and the cities to it's a the analog the analogy to code enforcement is spot on is, you know, where do we go from here?

And, mister chairman, I I think we can expect your cooperation working with the county manager to get this whole thing flushed out.

Yeah. I mean, you wanted information, you know, we can we can take whatever information we wanted to have and get accurate counts on it. Now all business tax receipts are on the honor level, you know, anyway because the honor system, you're not going to they're all we can do is really send. We can't we can't lean their property. We don't have any authority to do those things. All we can really do is keep sending letters and keep telling them they're behind in their business tax receipts. So really, it's like there's there's not a lot of teeth there.

It's a money grab. Let's just say call what it is.

Yeah. And there's no

Because we can.

Yeah. So it's I mean, personally, you know, I've I've my wife's real estate business is

in the city

of Sanford and the county limits, and we pay both. But, you know, my wife complains a lot more than I do about it.

But duly noted. We got it on record. You're her proxy. That's right.

So it sounds like we have direction to the city manager to dig up. I I will never support it regardless. I've got enough of my details and knowledge, and I think the first or second year that commissioner Lockhart and I were here, and there was a notion to hire an outside company to go collect all the business tax receipts and that company would take Right.

Motion. Yeah.

Half 50%, 40%, whatever is claiming Yeah. That only they had the proprietary software to figure it out. But I think we've hit this around enough to understand, I don't know how you 100% collected, I don't even know how you 70% collected. So you know and and and somebody's got to convince me why we're collecting it, what's the ROI, what's the purpose when the data already exists that anybody could ever need about a business at the state level.

So Yep. Commissioner Zibauer, you may

be right, but let's just let our

account manager get the information before we Sure. Do this one.

And I can

do that. Commissioner Lockhart?

Was there a time frame on your motion?

I would hope as soon as he can get it. I'm not gonna tell him get it to his next meeting.

I I We only have one meeting. How about Janu I'll bring it back in January. Give us some time. Is that good vacation time?

Before you commit to that date, can you just check with the staff and everything what's entailed?

They'll be okay with it. We'll get it. Great. At the January. We'll bring it.

We'll something back.

By the last meeting in January. Great. Anything else?

I don't think we voted.

We haven't voted.

Do you need a vote on

I do.

Commissioner Kosta takes motion.

And it was second by commissioner Her.

Yeah. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Aye. Okay, there you go.

That's all, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Thank you. Alright, let's go to district reports. The first one is going be District 5 who also has an appointment to make. Commissioner Her.