Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening. I am I hereby calling to order the meeting of the Sebastian City Planning and Zoning Commission, December 18th, 2025. And we will begin. I think No, you need it closer, I think. Thank you. Uh we will begin with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge alce to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Excuse me. Roll call, please. Yes. Mr. Roberts, here. Mr. Garton, present. Miss Cotenberg here. Mr. Carter, present. Mr. Laruso. Mrs. Larus. Miss Laruso here. I'll get to it. Uh, [laughter] Mr. Reno here. and Miss Gasey here. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay. Um we have a couple of announcements before we begin uh the rest of our meeting. And the first is uh we uh offer our congratulations to Mr. Reno, who is now a permanent full-time member um of our committee and um [snorts] we welcome you. We also welcome Mr. Roy Garton who has uh is now filling Mr. Reno's previous position as the at an alternate. And um tonight at tonight's meeting, both Ms. Battles and Ms. Kenchin have been excused from tonight's meeting. So our alternate members, Mr. Roberts and Mr. Garton, will be voting in their place. Okay. The first order of business then this evening is um approval of the minutes from our last meeting. I think you've all had an opportunity to go over the minutes and review them. Um if you have any deletions or corrections, speak now or we will entertain a motion to accept the minutes as presented. Madam Chair,

I'll make a motion that we accept amendments of the zoning commission meeting of November 6. Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. And [clears throat] um all in favor? I. Any opposed? Okay, the motion is passed. The minutes are accepted.

On our agenda tonight, we have um if any if anybody disagrees with me, let me know now. But um item number 7A is [snorts] um a preliminary replant and the applicant has requested that that be tabled. If anybody hasn't doesn't have an objection, I'd like to make that the first item on our so in case anybody's here for that, they can leave early or instead of waiting until the end. Any objections? Okay. And that will be our first item. Um, and I guess I have to open that hearing in order to

Well, Mr. Mr. Chairman, let's make it formal and we'll ask the city attorney to read the item into the record, open the public hearing. Okay. And then Jim will uh add to that record regarding the request to table. Yes, sir.

Yeah. It's just a a matter of uh a formality in order to not have to uh engage in future uh advertising. So this is uh item 7A and this is a um scheduled to be a public hearing recommendation of the city council for a preliminary replat uh Maxwell Schuman commercial subdivision replplatting 1.93 acres consisting of eight lots to a two lot commercial subdivision with proposed storm water tracks ingress and egress easements necessary improvements and including previously agreed upon offsite improvements. The current zoning is CG commercial general and future land use is CG uh general commercial. Um so now that this item has been requested to table and and the commission has agreed to that, we do have to uh table it to a date and time certain uh in order that uh the public has ample notice as to when this item will actually be heard.

Okay. Thank you. The request is to be is that this item be tabled to January 15, 2026, which is when it will appear. And just for the record, put the time at 6 p.m. regular time. 6 p.m. Thank you. Okay. I'll get here early if that's okay, though. Okay. Uh if if you could entertain a motion to table that and and get a vote of the commission. It it can be a roll. It doesn't have to be a roll call vote, just a voice. Could we have a motion to table this item?

I'll make a motion to re uh table the item uh for the permanently recap of the Maxwell Schuman commercial subdivision. I second it to January 15, 2026 meeting at 6 p.m. Thank you. I second it. Okay. All in favor? Me. All in favor? [clears throat] I I. Any opposed? So be it. Thank you for that.

Okay. Before we begin the next meeting, which is um the quai judicial hearing, I note that we have a number of people in the audience, some of whom may not be familiar with our procedure. So, I'm just going to go over it real quickly. Anybody who will be giving testimony tonight, we want you to say speak your name very clearly and if it's anything other than Smith or Jones, spell it out so that uh Janet can get it uh correct. And we do have um oath cards. Are we still using the oath cards? Yes. Yeah.

So, if you're going to give testimony tonight, we have a card on a table at the back. You need to fill it out very brief. It's just so that we have a record of who was here and what they said. Okay. The time allotted for input from the public is three minutes per person. Um and we do time those because um otherwise we'd be here until Christmas and I don't want to do that. So um if if you have information, we definitely want to hear from you. Um, but it's not always necessary to repeat the same information numerous times. Okay. Thank you. Okay. I hereby open the planning and zoning quai judicial hearing. And if our attorney will read it for us.

Thank you. This is item 6A. It's a quasi judicial public hearing, a new site plan with conditional use permit and waiver request. Amron Boat and RV storage facility, 45 Ashberry Boulevard, it's 3.8 acre development along with associated site improvements. Uh CG general commercial land use CG commercial general zoning district. Conditional use approval for an outdoor storage facility within the Sebastian Triangle Overlay District. Waiver from Triangle Riverfront Overlay District Prohibited front yard fence materials. Okay. Thank you. Have any of the members of the commission um uh any exparte communication to um disclose any conflicts or any site visits? No.

Okay. Uh, city clerk to swear in the city clerk. You ready to do that for us? You do. Oh, yeah. For me? Should I close the swear? Yeah. Okay. So, so this this is going to be We need the oath card. The oath card has an oath for you. So, if you've signed an oath card, you don't have to swear in, but anyone who hasn't signed an oath card, you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

The uh applicant will make a presentation, please. [clears throat and cough] Good evening. My name is Joseph Schuli. S C H U L K E. I am the engineer in this project. I'm with Schuli Biddon Stoddard. I'm here tonight with uh William Brogano uh who is the applicant and as well as uh his attorney and um here to present our application. And of course, we're uh applying for an application for site plan approval for uh outside storage facility. It also requests requires a conditional use permit uh because we're in the uh roof overlay district and um we went through the staff report. Uh we concur with all their findings. Uh we uh it's been a it's been a process. We've been at it about a year, maybe a little over a year with this application. Um, we uh take uh met many times with staff uh going over the landscape requirements, the special requirements for the conditional use permit, which you all uh I believe um the conditional permit requirements for the storage use in the riverfront overlay district. You all voted on that about a year year and a half ago and so city council you should be familiar with that. But uh uh one of the main things was the buffering a minimum 20 foot buffer and uh of course we provided that a little bit more in some of the areas. Uh we're also requesting a waiver in that buffer and the one waiver in uh uh the attorney Jonathan Roto's here and requested a waiver because um within that buffer within the 512 overlay district um it specifically doesn't allow chain link fences. And if you really look at I believe in my opinion the river overlay district typically uh the overlay district is on the other side of the railroad tracks and you have these homes

and these buildings commercial sites are very close to the road and they want aesthetic fences and stuff like that. But in this particular case we're we're talking about a storage facility where you want a 20ft buffer and it's a vegetative buffer. We're keeping all the vegetation. We're putting this uh uh uh the chain link fence, if you will, on the back of that buffer, and it's black. And in most municipalities and counties that I work in, when you're required to have a vegetative buffer like that, and you do also want to have a fence, they actually require it to be a black chain link fence because you can't see the fence through the vegetation. So, it makes 100% like because it's behind it, a black fence, you can't even see it. where if we had a white PVC fence, it uh may not look right, especially with all that nice vegetation that we're preserving. So, that is the one waiver they had asked for um that that they requested. Otherwise, it's a pretty straightforward site plan. As far as the storage use, uh we're accessing off of uh Ashberry Boulevard. Uh we are um providing a lot of landscaping. uh way more than I I think code required uh with our calculations and what have you. We've been through it with staff. Um the storm water system contains the 25-year storm. We do not outfall in Ashbury Boulevard. There's going to be no impact to uh the residential subdivision near us or even that road. We out outfall our storm water into 512. We got our permits already from all the jurisdictional agencies. We're really ready to break ground. We've got our St. John's environmental resource permit. We've got our drainage permit connection with the 512. Uh we've got all our environmental permits. We've worked through everything with the uh city. And I think what the city would like to see uh before we get started is I think uh Dory, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they would see some modification of the lighting plan, change the type of lighting heads. Uh I believe they uh want to see just a modified irrigation plan, but neither of those things are I think are consequential to uh what we're

trying to get approved tonight and what you're what you're looking at. Um, so, uh, I I think it's pretty straightforward. You may have questions on the use and against storage. Um, I would I would say it's if you're familiar with the storage facility on five uh on um 512 near the railroad tracks. Um, not in five, you know, in the county, there's outside storage facility there. It has the roof covered facility where they park in. It's kind of similar to that. Uh however uh we've gone to the extra step which is required by your code to actually put a nice roof on the the buildings the canopy structures that are adjacent to the road. So that's what you're seeing instead of just a flat metal structure. So we've had to comply with a lot of these uh overlay district requirements and it's kind of hard to because they were really written for buildings you know and and you know the aesthetic and stuff like that. So we were to work with staff we were to make the uh buffer uh the buffer requirements work. We were able to make the roof and coloring requirements work on these type of structures. And um I can tell you I don't think you're going to really notice it. The traffic is minimal. We expect 78 uh trips per day. Um and uh we should have really no impact to the Ashberry Surge. And I think you know the funny thing is when I drive by all the time and even when I first started work on the project, I thought, "Wow, we're right behind Ashberry." Uh but if you actually looked at a map, we only share 84 foot of frontage with Ashberry subdivision. And the only place we even touched Ashberry subdivision is behind their clubhouse. And their main clubhouse is actually to the west. And all we are is adjacent to vegetation in Ashberry subdivision. And if you guys want to see that, if it's that pertinent to what you're you're considering, I can show a blow up in an aerial. I can either hand to you or we can put if you have the Elmo here, uh I could show you that that it's um and I think a lot of people when you drive by 512, you you think that oh, this project is right next to Ashbury subdivision. Uh but it's actually a kind of a funny shaped property and we're not adjacent to the subdivision uh like most people would

think. Uh we are not behind any homes whatsoever and uh only behind the clubhouse a little bit. And Dory, do you guys have a helmo still or

Okay. So here is our site. 512's here. Ashbury Boulevard's here. Our entrance is going to go on here. You see we only have 84t of common frontage with Ashberry subdivision. This is their clubhouse. This is their pool. And actually they just have landscaping right in here. So, we're we're not even behind any of their houses. And I know a lot of people out here may have concerns that we're putting stuff right behind their homes. We're really not. And I think there's a misconception when you're driving by that. I had the misconception when I first started this project. We're right behind Ashberry, but we're really not because the the property is odd shaped. So, I wanted to point that out to you, too, and everybody else that we're not really uh as close as I think some people might think. Um, so I thought that might benefit you to see and maybe benefit some of the people in the audience. Um, so we're providing large buffers, uh, 20 ft or plus. We're preserving a lot of existing vegetation. A matter of fact, we work with Dory and the staff to try to preserve as much of the vegetation on our perimeter as possible. Um, and where we are impacting it, we're actually supplementing that and planting natural stuff back. So, we're going to have a native buffer around the entire perimeter. So, it's really going to be nice looking. It's at least 20t back or further. Uh, we have the chain link fence, and that's primarily for security reasons. You won't even see that fence. It's black. It's 6t is behind the vegetation which is going to be, you know, 4 6 8 foot tall in the taller pine trees and the palmettos which are mature. So, you won't even see that fence. And um [clears throat] the vehicles themselves that are entering or entering far from uh Ashberry subdiv uh daily trips on the on the road according the IT fifth uh generation traffic uh manual. Um whereas uh

Ashbury's got 1,900 trips on that road, we only putting 78 on that road. So there's a minimal impact in that regard. Uh we we're providing a good buffer. Um it's a uh allowable use. We meet all the conditions. Uh we are asking for one waiver. Uh I think the waiver makes sense because I don't think you would want to see a big white PVC fence behind the vegetation. You you know that might appear in here or there. the black fence will totally disappear in the vegetation. Um, so you know, generally I want to speak about that. Any specific requirements or any I mean any specific questions you have, I'd be happy to answer them either now and I would like to be able to come back out if I if needed to address any of the public's questions as well. Also, the attorney's here and the applicant is here if you have any questions for them.

Thank you. I have one question. Pardon me. I have one question. Um, do you want to ask a question now or do you want to wait till the deliberations? Wait for our deliberations. Yeah, if it's okay um chairman if we can follow that list on the quasi judicial procedure and there'll definitely be time for um questions from the from the commission. I can't remember if it's before public input or after but definitely and we'll be able to answer Joe and myself also. Okay. Sometimes somebody else's question ignites another one in our minds. Yeah. Well, I'll I'll write any questions down that I think that you guys might want to hear answer from me later on. But it's been a pleasure talking to you and I I hope I can answer questions for you.

Thank you. Uh staff presentation, please.

Thank you, chairman. Um I'm going to go over a little bit more of the specific code details that we have listed in our staff report that are important to get part of the record. Um as Joe did say, this is there this is a three-step type of approval tonight or request for approval tonight. um site plan approval. This is a conditional use in this zoning district and they're also asking for a waiver from the overlay district. Um remember the overlay district is overlaying codes on the general over the general code. If this was a request to for relief from the general code, it would be a variance before council, but this is a request for relief from the overlay district stuff. So it is uh the code allows you to grant that waiver tonight. Uh regarding this fence park, um the site is almost 4 acres. It's 3.8 acres. It um the total impervious area the code requires a maximum of 80%. Their impervious area is at 59%. So this is not totally maxed out on their impervious. They're required to have a uh 20% um minimum of open space. They are presenting 41%. They have met there's some additional setbacks. uh CG zoning district has kind of loose and small setbacks but part of the conditional use criteria is minimum of 20 feet from any from any setback from any uh property line. Uh and also because of that small property line that's abudding ashberry that was required to have 30 foot setback um but that believe is an area of a storm water. So there isn't any structures are going to be uh close to that. Um, in fact, they're actually 110 ft any structures uh buildings from the property line that abuts the actual Ashberry subdivision. Um, the the office building is going to be about 14 ft high. So, this is not a tall building. Um, that district allows 35 ft maximum. So, they're not even close to that. And the canopies are between 16 and 18 ft is what visually you'll see in terms of the buildings.

There are going to be 93 uh spaces for storage. The office requires three based on its uh square footage. Um conditional use criteria only allows them to have up to a 400 foot office. They're coming in at 353. Uh so they only need three parking spaces and the elevations of that building does meet the requirements. It's got a pitched roof. They put some decorative shutters on the building. Um so that met the code riverfront overlay district code. Also, um the uh uh because this is commercial abuing both the both the public service the school to the west for me the we kind of use the ashberries to the north uh they required um an op type a opaque buffer but the requirement from the conditional use that had to have a minimum 20 foot ve vegetative buffer is going to meet that requirement. Uh so it is um if you've been to the site it's a pretty thick buffer. Uh so that 20 ft is going to meet that type A requirement um that's required in the land development code. Uh Joe did mention that there is going to be a surface uh the the storm water system. They have two ponds. Um they are connected uh with some piping. Then there is piping uh that will run underneath the driveway. They're going to do a series of uh shallow swailes in the buffer area. That does require a little bit of disturbance to some of the plants. Um we have worked with them. There is some notation on that landscape page that any disturbance within that 20- foot buffer, they will replant. And the verbiage does kind of state it. It's not necessarily going to be 24 in uh boxwoods or viburnum. They'll be putting in some native vegetation, some additional saw pomemettos. Uh that will be verified at final inspection, but it's a series of uh shallow swailes uh pipe under the driveway and then that there's another pipe that will that will drain that water into the 512 Indian River County drainage ditch. and they have already contacted the county and do have that permit to do that. So, um, we had have a few questions from the

residents. None of that water will go into Ashbury Boulevard. Ashbury Boulevard drainage goes into the Ashberry subdivision storm water. Um, so that was verified that none of the storm water from this site will be going into the Ashberry subdivision system. Uh, on [snorts] page six, uh, we have listed what the conditional use criteria was. Um, I'll just summarize them. Um we feel they have met all of them. Um no case of the setback be less than 20 ft. They meet that. Uh the screening has been met with regards to the type A and they have increased the landscape buffer. Uh normally it's just a 10-ft landscape buffer that's required. They are uh they have provided 20 ft. Um some of the other things were are kind of with the use that this is a very passive outdoor storage. The automobile trucks and recreation vehicles can just be stored in the area that you see. if they were going to have another outside storage area where you could put um containers or 18-wheelers, that would have to be specified on the site plan and you would have to approve that. They are not there is no area on the site where you're going to have that outside storage that's not underneath the canopy um for some of that other stuff besides automobiles, RVs, and trailers. Uh [snorts] there can be no business tax receipt. So, somebody can't uh open up a business in that place, say for detailing or something for boats and RVs. This is strictly storage. No other business tax receipt will be issued for that. No sales, garage sales or manufacturing or repair is permitted within this site. Um and no storage of flammable or highly combustible uh hazardous materials or subdivisions substances. That's the conditional use criteria. We feel they meet all of those. Um and and staff feels that you can uh approve that conditional use request. Um however there is also uh you the commission in reviewing that conditional use is also supposed to uh in your determination um that this is uh that the use is going to be operated so that the public health safety and welfare is protected. It doesn't present

an unduly affect adverse effect on other properties surrounding it um based on the scale and intensity that it won't generate unreasonable noise traffic or potential nuisances. other nuisances. Um that it conforms to all applicable provisions in the district that in which the use is located and that it satisfies the specific criteria that I just went over. Uh if you feel that it does meet all that then um we recommend that you approve the conditional use. Um there's a few other things that I just wanted to go over because they lead into some of our recommended conditions of approval. Uh Joe mentioned that the uh based on it traffic engineering that uh based on the area of the storage that this is only projected to uh add additional 78 daily trips. [snorts] Our uh threshold is 400 that it would have required a full traffic analysis uh reviewed by the county it wasn't close to the 400. So um we fig we feel that the daily trips added to that is minimal. Again this is just a a generated from a calculation. I do not think that you will see 78 uh RVs and boats going out of that out of that uh storage unit every day. The other thing that uh you'll note on the site plan it does they're in the area to kind of towards the area uh of the storm water against Ashberry. Um they have a washdown station, but they also had proposed an RV dump station where you could enter you could uh um uh dump your in your RV your gray water coming back from a trip.

[snorts]

There's uh staff is confused too a little bit um in that the Indian River County Utilities it may be a new code uh state code from this year but you are not allowed to empty gray water into a sewer system. There is a code from the health department that states if you can connect to water and sewer you cannot put in a new septic system uh which would would have proposed a tank that they felt they could come and and have emptied every so often. So we're kind of in this gray area. uh one won't approve it, one the other one won't issue any. Um it's on the site plan. It's an amenity. There's nothing in our code that states they have to have that dump station. So uh we're basically stating have them work it out between the two jurisdictions, Environmental Health and Inver County Utilities. If there is a way to get some sort of dump station in there, it's on the site plan. Um if it needs any permits, they'll certainly pull the the appropriate permits. Uh if they can't get that worked out, it it's not going to affect the approval of a site plan or the site plan itself. It's just an area that they had had for the dump station. Um the washdown area has already been reviewed by the health department. They're putting some sort of u um there'll be some sort of screening on that or what's required from the health department. So they're okay with the washdown area. It's the dump station that may not come to fruition on the site plan, but it will not affect any approval that you have. uh the irrigation plan um that you had that it is a sheet in there. Uh there's still a few comments from staff that had not been addressed. Um uh we do um we feel irrigation only needs to be in the areas where there is going to be new plantings. There's a lot of buffer area that's not going to be disturbed and that irrigation line on the plan that you have kind of shows in the middle of the buffer. We'd like it to be moved in the areas where it is, but we'll work with them and we're requiring a new irrigation plan before we issue that commercial uh land clearing permit. Um that's another condition of approval that we have. Uh with regards to the waiver, what the code requires is that it says in front yards you cannot have

chain link fences. So they do have two front yards along Ashbury Boulevard and Sebastian Boulevard. Uh they are requiring this chain link fence requesting a chain link fence, but again the code says it can't be chain link. It can be wooden or PVC. Uh I think Joe kind of explained it and there is a request letter in your packet. Um it's going to be behind that buffer. Um, if you do have the the code goes on to say that if you do have chain link, it does have to be black or green vinyl clad. And I we feel it would be okay. It would be more awkward to have two different types of fences on this. Uh, there's going to be enough buffering that a wooden or or PVC fence uh would be additionally providing. Um, staff feels we we recommend approval, but again, that would be up to the the board. The condition would be that yes, it would have to be black vinyl. Uh if you do approve that chain link fence, uh just a couple couple other things that are riverfront overlay districts. Um the lighting fixtures, uh the um uh the the NEMA type that they have, they have they have a there's going to be three decorative lighting posts on light posts. They have lights underneath the canopies, but the plan also showed these lights that are extending from the canopy fascia. The code requires those to be decorative. The code doesn't require that you have to have them coming off. So, if they determine that the lights underneath the canopies themselves provide enough lighting and they don't want to add those additional 11 fixtures uh that'll be out outside off the canopies, they don't have to put them on. We just require that if they do, there's a condition of approval that they are decorative lighting um and not just the cobra heads, which are just the the straight ones with the light down. And also we've had in the past um we will get a color sample printed on the computer for those for the roofs and the actual blue or the colors tend to be much more brighter than what's approved. So we have been um with [clears throat] some of our last type of site plans requesting an actual color sample from the manufacturer to verify that the color of the roofs will are within the the uh color sample. What they're proposing is uh very navy blue. We're sure it would be okay, but we'd like to

have an actual uh color sample of that. with that staff feels that they do meet all of the requirements of the uh the code, the riverfront overlay district, the uh um uh the conditional use criteria criteria. We are recommending approval of all three of those. And we have those uh five conditions of approval that I've just gone over. We recommend approval with uh uh condition to those uh uh conditions with those recommended approvals conditions. I'm saying that wrong, but you guys know what I mean that we have on the staff report. Staff recommends approval. [snorts] Thank you. Um, this is the time when the commissioners may ask questions of the staff and of the um applicant. So, no questions.

No questions. Oh my goodness. You always steal mine usually. Um, okay. Um, the fence I would prefer green green vinyl green chain link instead of the black. I just that would make it even less likely to be seen. Um, I wondered um in my travels I don't know that the name Amaran is familiar to me. Do you have other facilities of this type in the area that I might have seen? They're residential single family home build or not single family, but they're general contractors. They have an office in on County Road 512.

Okay, that's probably what it was. Um, a lot of attention to the landscaping, which I app which I appreciate. On page four, Dory, the parking for the 353t office. Yes, I understand two standard spaces. What is one HC space? Handicap. Apologize. Yeah, we should I'll spell that out, but yeah, that's a handicap required. Okay, it's one space up to 25 spaces. So, yeah, even if you're required two spaces, you're going to you're going to have to add that handicap. [clears throat]

So, that 353 foot um office is not in addition to page six where it says one management office may be included providing it does not exceed 400. So, there's not 400 and 353. There's just the 353. Correct. Correct. And it's below the 400. Yeah. [clears throat] Maximum. So that's why it meets that condition. Yeah.

Okay. I have to ask, do we have any turtles? So we we did in your packet there was the environmental uh u the environmental assessment. Um there are some tortoises on there, but we do already have the um uh FWC relocation permit. know any tortoises on there and um with part of the process of the land commercial land clearing is our environmentalists will go out there just kind of verify um or theirs will verify that there hasn't been any additional tortoises since the time that that permit was issued but they have already they already do have their relocation all tortoises will be relocated off that site

okay thank you uh let me see if I had anything else I was glad to see the traffic statement uh when I was not on the board yet quite a few years ago go. Sebastian Crossings off 512 um had a request for a lot out in closer to um 512 in front of the development um that wanted to do uh a storage uh facility there. And the residents were all upset about the traffic and it was hard to to get it across that, you know, that that is going to be much lower traffic than if it were um any kind of uh dwelling, you know, apartments or low lowcost housing or something like that. So, thank you for get getting that in there. 78 a day, you know, that's really very low, I think. Okay. irrigation. Please consider the green. Back to that. Thank you for catching that about the um the lighting. Uh and I think I think that was all I

the only questions I had. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Yes, sir. [clears throat] Well, Dory actually uh answered my question about the dump station. I had some concerns about the dump station, but so you jump the gun got totally clear that up for him. I was wondering. Can you hear me now? No. Has to be red there. No, it has to be red around the microphone. There we go. Oh, now it's on.

Okay, there we go. Uh, for those who didn't hear me, I just had some questions about the dump station, but Dory, answer those questions for me. Uh, I was wondering where it was going to be located and I had some concerns about it, but since she already mentioned about the uh, possibility that that may not be able to happen. But, uh, um, if are you going to consider how many dump stations were you going to have if you could put them in just the one? [clears throat and cough] I think I have to come up to the microphone to answer the question, but uh yes, it's just one in one one location. And it's simply what it looks like is just a PVC pipe in a about a 2 x two concrete area with a curb with a cap. And it's just for them to connect their hose and dump and and and you know, it's not anything uh that looks bad or is a you know, an aesthetic issue or anything like that. And it's [clears throat] a cap and it's a pretty simple pretty simple and it's one of them.

Very good. Yeah, I'm famili I'm familiar I'm familiar with them. I was just uh concerned about spillage and things like that, but uh again, Dory answered my question for it. So, thank you.

That's it. I'm assuming hoping um that people that utilize the uh uh this facility, there'll be a contract as far as you can't live in the camper while it's there and things of that um ilk that may happen that people don't prepare for. um thing I'm wondering about um you said they you access the facility from Ashberry Road, you know, the break in the median. Will there be good readable directional signs so people can't miss it and wind up driving their RV up through the um subdivision? Um, I usually wind up being the driver and if it's if if things aren't posted clearly, I can miss that turn.

I think it's going to be very evident where you turn in at the median there. Um, when you pull in um for the the Ashberry has their gates before just just to the I would call it to the northwest of us anyway. So, you're going to see that as well, but it's it's going to be very very evident. Great. And Dory, is there a time frame on a waiver? on a waiver. Yeah. Um

sometimes we put one on if it's something I know they're they're jumping into to to want to start this soon. So I don't I didn't see that we didn't see the need to add, you know, a two-year time limit on that. Um they'll be starting construction. I also want to add a little bit with regards to the entrance in that um staff and we did consider uh we had some discussions on the queueing if that two boats on a Sunday came in at the same time. Um they did push the gates. After our discussion, they did work with staff. they push the gates farther into the site so that you do have at least a queueing space for a boat and RV and we were worried that if two came in sign so what they did was originally proposed is just a single entrance they widened that to that there is two lanes for two boats at the same time to come in or RVs so that there wouldn't be some queuing out into Ashbury Boulevard that would block that traffic um so uh if they if they do need to put any type of directional signage Ashley Boulevard is a private road there's a public access easement But we will certainly um I would assume that they would reach out to the HOA board to see if it you know a beneficial directional sign would help if it's decorative and within their landscaping that could be something they would consider to do and could talk to the HOA on that.

Great. Thank you. That's it. That's all I have. Uh I would like to know if there's going to be a water service at the W washdown area. It doesn't you it didn't show on plans. It does say that there's going to be a a hose ring, but it didn't say anything about a water service. Oh, I think it does say in that area. It does say wash wash area. Wash area doesn't show a water service. It'll just be a um like a hose bib and hose. Okay. It's just not on the utility. Typically, you put them on a timer in case they forget to close the uh the valve. You you turn it on and it'll shut off automatically in 5 minutes.

Okay. So, the canopies are not going to have gutters. basically the range is going to run off the side.

So, we'll look at that when those building permits come in. With regards to the canopies and the overlay districts, uh regarding the pitched roof, um we did dissect that code. Um and anything that was visible from the road, you'll see on those uh canopy elevations, they do have some um uh pitch roof, some of the parapit roofs on some of them that will be visible. So, they will look pitched. Um, I'm assuming, and I'll be honest, I haven't actually reviewed and jumped into the structural. Uh, sometimes the uh storm water will come down their their uh support posts and then have a flow out over the driveway. Um, u, I'm hoping the grading will get that water into the retention ponds. They could add gutters um, with that. That'll be part of the manufacturing when we get those structural permits in for those canopies. We'll we'll look at that. Uh just as an observation in the E canopy it's close to the wash down area so any excessive rainfall would go into the wash down area and may

the owners may have some or you know if they've worked with the manufacturer they may already have they may have some additional information on the uh on roof runoff. I don't know if there's anything they can add to that. The other question would be uh in the environmental study that did mention Florida scrub jays. Is that going to be anything that we have to add as part of the amendment to

uh I apologize if it wasn't attached to that, but we did get um we did require a separate uh scrub jay survey. Okay. Okay. And I believe we do have something that stated there was no scrub jays or within the radius that would require um any type of uh seasonal type of um probably if it was in a scrub j area that the environmental noted there would be certain times when they could not clear during nesting season. U they'll be probably clearing before that but there wasn't any indication that there was scrub jay area uh scrub jays in the area. Okay, that's all the questions I have.

Okay. just uh picking off of piggybacking off of Miss Laruso's questions as far as um like on page six, I really didn't see any restrictions about overnight visitors or people wanting to stay on the their RVs overnight. Uh do we need to add that restriction or is that something we have a conversation about? I you would hope nobody would stay in there. There's no electric hookups for any of them. There is the one that states that um let me see no business tax receipt other than for the main use storage shall be permitted. So it they could not get a business tax receipt or any type of uh for campground or an RV campground type of thing. Um, so if that is something that you want to uh just kind of shore up that that use has not been in there, you certainly can add that as part of your approval. Um, that in addition to the condition use criteria, there shall be no overnight sleeping in any of the RVs or boats that are stored on site.

I'm just thinking you come back from a long trip, you park your RV, you stay the night before you go back to your house type situation. [clears throat] You're wanting to per code that's that would not be allowed. Cooking meals before you go home type thing. Correct. I I need to tell you a slippery slope to a campground. If people are sleeping in the Walmart parking lot, they'll be sleeping in this lot, too. You can believe it. So So that can definitely be an additional condition of approval uh with regards to the conditional use that you can add. I would like to put that in there when it's appropriate time. Anything else?

And did we talk did we ever um talk about operating hours, people coming in and out? Does each c like client have their access to the building? I'm going to code the applicant answer that. There's nothing in our code that stated we we certainly have conditions on when they can clear and construct. Um but in terms of [clears throat] when the gates are on, I don't know if the lights are going to be on a timer, when they can come in and out. That that would be part of their business. And we we certainly can get it part of the record if you would like them to come up and answer that. I I don't have any information on that. Uh, you know, if the gates are closed at 10 o'clock and you can't get in to get anything, that would be something if they want to answer. Oh, yeah. I was just curious about that.

There will be 24-hour access for the gates. You know, people come in at uh, you know, they return from trips at any time. Fishermen, you when you're fishing or going maybe leaving, you know, four or five in the morning to go fishing. uh someone coming from a long trip may come back at 2 in the morning to you know you don't generally see that and remember we're only talking about 78 trips a day if that really even happens but but we don't want to restrict the hours of the gates so like a normal right facility okay

yeah yeah and no one will be living there or staying in the RVs it would be prohibited uh it's prohibited by the city but also it's it's not it's not a good practice it's it's a liability issue to have anybody there's not electric uh they they only have electric uh a small like a 15 amp service so you can charge batteries but there's nothing they don't have enough electric to actually run a whole RV to be able to you know cook and do all that type of stuff. Of course RVs do have some power on their own but u but we're not making it easy for anybody to live there and we don't want them to live there. Um it's a liability issue and the city prohibits it as well. And the the above lights, they're on 20. They're on throughout the whole night or do they turn off like the uh

uh that I'd have to ask applic I I I would imagine most of the lights would be off in the um um in the evening late hours, but I don't know the answer to that. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Roberts. If they are on all night, uh from the phototric plan based on the proposed lighting, you'll see that as it gets to the property line, they're down to zero lumens. So there is no lights that are going off site from theirs. So like the residents couldn't see it from these, right? They're shielded the neighborhood. Thank you, Dory. Yeah, the lights are shielded. So So you know, so you're not seeing that glare like shielded down. Okay. Thank you.

Okay. I do have a few um questions as well. Um let me start with um part of what what we are supposed to be assured of is that there shall not be any storage of flammable, toxic or highly combustible or other hazardous materials or substances. By nature of what these vehicles are, we are storing flammable, toxic, and hazardous things on site unless you have to empty your gas tank and your LP gas before you go in. So, they are there. I guess that's just part of the deal. But I it this doesn't fit. And I I know that's just me, but I I was an RVER for a long time. I know quite a bit about it.

I I think maybe the intent of that criteria was though so that there wasn't um and and this did come from some kind of our some of the criteria was taken from also from mini storage that you didn't have a storage unit where you were storing 20 gas cans of gasoline. Um it would be similar to storing a lawn mower in a mini storage unit that possibly would have gas in that too. I'm presuming that some of the I don't know if you want to call that's the storage if it's already on that boat or the RV. Um certainly affects the liability of the site if there is going to be on that. But I think the intent of that was to not have somebody fill up a unit with a bunch of gas tanks or that they were selling from or that you stored 20 things that I think that was the intent of that. It's how you want to uh determine that what that means and if you have an issue with that.

Okay. I guess it might be a personal thing with me because if you've ever seen a fire that happened from a refrigerator because they run on LP gas, it it's devastating because those things are made out of the most flammable stuff in the world and it goes fast. Anyway, that's I'll leave that. Um the washdown area uh will there be reclamation of the water? No, the wash down area if you if you look at the grading plan um and uh the grading of the pavement is such that the storm water on all the pavement other than the washdown area goes into the inlets and just the area that's identified as a washdown area drains to a curb, goes to an inlet and goes into a oil and uh sediment um like a grease trap if you will. And uh so it it it traps any of the floating debris, any sediment, stuff like that. And then from there it'll go into the retention area. So you basically get the clean water uh from there. It's no different than washing your car in your driveway. And uh I can tell you as someone that owns uh several um storage facilities myself in county and I have RV dumps and I have uh a place for people to wash their cars and I have uh 150 units one site into another. No one ever uses them. Very very rare. You you'll see more people washing their cars at home than in in this particular place. But uh and the one thing um that typically we do is on the hose, you put a timer on it so no one forgets to shut the hose bib off, you know, so it'll go off on its own so we're not wasting water.

Okay. Thank you. Um I have one more question. The uh the signage, am I reading this correctly? We're talking about a sign that is 8 feet tall. So, the maximum height can be 10 ft. Um, and most of the signs along 512, not the there's a couple of pole signs left, but most of those signs are about 8 to 10 ft. Okay. Don't forget a six foot. And this these signs are going to be located on the private road though, right?

Uh, no. It does show right there on the corner. It's closer to the It's on their property. It has to be on their property. It's kind of right at the intersection where Ashbury Boulevard and Sebastian Boulevard meets. Um, they've added the roof cap to be decorative. It's probably no bigger than the sign that they probably have where their construction office is. Um, so again, we'll those dimensions, the exact dimensions and all that will be rude at the building permit. Um, but what they've proposed so far meets all code requirements. Okay. I just want to make sure that I was reading it correctly. And

to clarify, the 8ft is from the from the ground to the rooftop. It's not the sign itself that's 8 ft tall, the copy area. It's the whole structure that includes the base from the ground elevation to the top of the the roof. Okay.

This property has been located in the uh overlay district for how many years? since 2003.

2003. Thank you. Okay, that's I think that's all of my questions. Um, now we will open the floor to any member of the public who wishes to speak. And again, please identify yourself. If you're giving testimony, you need to have a uh filled out an oath card. And you have three minutes to make your point. So, welcome aboard. And we I do have to say we are really happy that we have a lot of people here speaking up.

Good evening. My name is Jim Hunt, Hu N. I'm a a resident of the Ashberry community and thank you for giving me a few moments to u express some issues that I and concerns that I have with the property. Um, one of the things that we were looking at is the purpose of the chain link fence was um listed on their request as uh to ensure that they had aesthetically pleasing fencing around the property. Um, excuse me. aesthetically. Don't mean to cut him. Mr. Hud, if we can start the timer. If we can start the timer. Sorry. It's running. It's running. It's uh steady here. But you've got it at 30 minutes, not three.

So,

anyway, the the aesthetics of the um of the entrance way that we have is going to be disturbed in in its entirety by this project. So, we want to make sure that any fencing that is in in place there provides adequate uh coverage so that it's opaque. Um I walk by that area quite often and you can see well more than 20 ft into the uh into the brush that's there. Now, so I want to make sure that that we don't find ourselves staring at uh RVs and the back of a building and such other things. Remember these um RV housings are I believe you said 16 to 18 feet tall. The RVs themselves can reach 12 feet and the fencing shouldn't be four or five or six feet. Should be more adequate. The traffic issues that we've been talking about with the minor amount of um the minor number of cars I think has been um understated not so much in its volume but in the fact that these are large vehicles. There are trucks or or cars with trailers behind them that can reach up to 53 feet. These are not small vehicles. So when you queue queue up two or three of those, you can easily create quite a blockage in the 84t that they have available to them entering the uh Ashbury um Boulevard. If they're in the approach lane, the turn lane that leads into Ashbury Boulevard, uh residents or others exiting our subdivision will not be able to see past them into oncoming traffic coming westbound on 512. The uh we've recently had a fatality at that intersection. Um we don't know for for exactly what the reason was, but the resident pulled out into traffic and was broadsided and died. Um, we have some issues with the dump station. Uh, there's a reason that the county pro

prohibits tying into sewer and putting in septics to compensate. Uh, and so from our perspective and knowing that the connections are often sloppy. Um, we would be opposed to having a dump station on site. I also use caution with the wash out station because while the dump station was intended for gray water, which is essentially soapy water and dirt, the wash stations uh I think will also get more use than they're thinking about because people coming in with their boats will want to clean the bottoms, clean the hulls, clean the motors, and they'll be using soap. So, it's dirty water and soap essentially gray water dumping into that cleanout area. So, it needs to be um clear how that water will be treated before it makes its way into the Indian River Lagoon. Um we had some issues with the lighting, but I understand there's going to be zero lumens near the border, so we're happy with that. uh the gopher tortoise survey u the last information I have was that it was completed in February of 2025 but the actual inspection was in December of 24 so it's well over a year old u there's conflicting language on the letter that the board that the commission sent to um uh to the um Amaron um the letter says four to six tortoises the survey indicated seven to nine so we want to make sure that All of the proper tortoises have been relocated and the fact that they have u uh an additional survey coming gives us some hope with that. Thank you for hearing me out. I appreciate your time.

Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Good evening. My name is Peter Sarasac. S A R A S E K. Uh I'm a resident of uh Ashbury subdivision and I I'm not going to repeat everything we've just heard from the prior speaker. I totally endorse all of his concerns because I actually was going to walk you through many of them myself. My primary concerns are I am a homeowner. I live in that subdivision. We have a lot of traffic already generated by 193 residential homes in the subdivision. Not only the homeowners who are making daily trips back and forth, I'm one of them, but also all the trades that are servicing our homes. We've got a lot of moving vans coming in and out of there. Bigger trucks, furniture deliveries, prime trucks, which are now the most populated vehicle that we've ever seen, and I could go on and on with all the other trades, but they occupy and take up a lot of the space in that entry apron, if you will. Ashbury Boulevard is a misnomer. This this is not a fancy boulevard like Sebastian Boulevard. It's part of a street and in the middle of the part of that street, we're now going to open it up and give an entrance to another development. Well, okay, then let's say what's the impact of that development going to be on the apron that we have to drive through? People talk about, well, you're going to create 78 additional daily trips. We're talking about 78 trips by fairly huge vehicles. The boats are not just simply a simple rowboat going down the road. We're talking about boats with trailers. The trailers are going to be towed by probably large pickup trucks, which is what you typically see, if not a larger tow truck. I don't see any limit on the size of what the boat itself can be other than to note that the can canopies

for this development can go up to 16 to 18 ft in height. So if that's the height that you can put underneath the canopy, picture the size of the boat that you could put under that canopy. And also picture the RV trailer that could go under that size of a canopy. I think you've got the potential here for a lot of very large vehicles suddenly appearing in the front of the Ashbury subdivision and they're going to be competing for access into the subdivision into their own subdiv into their own development as much as we homeowners are competing for access into ours. That to me is called traffic congestion. It's called the potential for safety concerns within that small community. And also there's also significant safety concerns I think on Sebastian Boulevard. We're now going to permit to come onto Sebastian Boulevard which is already hard to get across to begin with or to enter with all the traffic coming from the railroad track area. you're now going to put into that whole congested area already where we've had a fatality recently and almost weekly accidents the possibility of 78 vehicles who are now going to have to access exit Ashbury. So, they're either going to take a right turn and and merge into fast traffic of Sebastian Boulevard, or they're going to do the most daring thing imaginable, which a lot of us have to do, and that's try to cross Sebastian Boulevard with the potential of all this traffic flying up against you. That's what happened to the poor gentleman, I think, who got t-boned and has since passed away because of that. That is called to me a safety concern. We don't have that dramatic a safety concern currently

because we don't have all of those uh 78 additional trips with huge vehicles coming into that area. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. No, uh yes, I can take it, sir. I can take it, sir. I'm sorry. Hi, my name's Greg Pranco. I live at 122 Barl Cliff Circle. Would you spell your name, please? P R O N K O.

Uh lived here now six years. Uh this is not a win win for Ashberry residents. this is going to drive down the value of the properties first of all, but aside from that, I mean, if if you drive around the area, you got a a RV storage, boat storage area going across from Kroger's right now. If you go down below uh Wasasso, there's two new storage yards there, plus two of them that have been there about a year now, maybe. I just don't know what the need to put another one in a residential area is. And then you got kids that are next door at the elementary school. Um, another thing is [clears throat] until about a year ago, I had a 38T motor home and I towed my car behind it. Went up north usually during the summer. And uh so in all it's about the length of a tractor trailer. So these are not small vehicles. And so I can't feature somebody trying to turn into this facility with me trying to get out of Ashberry through the gate. Uh it's just there's just a it just seems like there's going to be too much congestion to me. Um, if you Another thing is these yards, if you go uh they they sound really nice. Condev is nice. I kept my RV there for a little while, but all of these yards, if you go up US1 towards Malibar, they turn into junkyards. people have been in their RVs or the boats and they're deruct,

you know, that's good for us as residents of Ashberry to have that outside our gates. Uh, talking about the graywater tank, there should be a black water tank. Gray water is dishwater. Black water is sewer water. And there should be a place for the people who pull in there with RVs to dump their blackwater tanks. Again, I had one for a lot of years, so you know, you got to have someplace to dump it. Uh it just seems to me that there's Well, the other thing is, and these other guys talked about that, there's been a lot of traffic accidents outside the gate. Uh like they talked wasn't one too long ago. and uh somebody died and it was they happen all the time cuz people don't pay attention to the traffic. Uh I think the biggest thing I'm seeing is a decrease in value of our properties with this and the difficulty of getting in and out of gate. Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Excuse me. We just can't have the applause. No cheering, no cheerleaders. Um, sorry, I had to say that just before you. I was hoping. [laughter]

Hi, I'm Lee Berlingame. I'm a resident of Ashberry as well. Uh, thank you for giving me the opportunity to share a concern with you. Um, I noticed on uh the sheet that was provided to all of us, C400, there's an outlined area. It looks to be a square area and it says, "Please reference C detail sheet C42 that uh highlights the area I think that's going to most impact us in Ashberry, which is the access and the egress from this property. Once again, it's been mentioned here earlier that these are large vehicles. This is a controlled access facility and people will be going through. I can just foresee a problem with bringing in a large trailer. They're going to go to the access point. The trailer will be hanging out into Ashberry Boulevard. If there's any problems with the access, we're going to have a situation where somebody's going to be sitting there in the road for quite some time. I think this is an access problem for Ashberry as well as a safety issue for everyone concerned. Frankly, uh, associated with that, my question is, if this is the case, why would it not be better to put entrance and and exit from the facility on 512? Yes, the development would require uh culverts and entrance and exit lanes off of 512, but it just seems to me that that would be a whole lot safer than trying to put large vehicles into a small area. Thank you for hearing me out.

Thank you, sir. B U R L I N G A N E.

What do I do with this? I can take it for you. Thank you.

My name is Vicky Han and I'm a homeowner in Ashberry. Miss, how do you spell your name? H A U N. A little history. Originally, Ashberry subdivision contained the two pies-shaped uh pieces on 512. When Clark Development walked away from Ashberry in ' 0708, he removed those two parcels from the Ashberry subdivision and left the HOA with a negative $5,000 in the checking account. I know because I was treasure. [clears throat] I submit to you Ashberry Boulevard belongs to the HOA. How is some outside entity allowed to utilize our private road? The HOA is responsible financially for the upkeep of the roads. So where is our remuneration for all of this traffic? I submit any exit and entrance should be 512 not on our property. There is no permission from the HOA for some outside entity to use our property. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Hi, my name is Nancy Scanland. SA N L. Thank you.

Uhhuh. And I live in Ashberry. And today I was looking because I was interested in finding out more about accidents that have happened on 512. And I didn't find much and I didn't even find the one that just occurred where the young man died. But I did find something on a notable attorney um law firm kind of looking to say, well, where and the the headline of this particular section is where do car accidents most occur in Sebastian? And the next the first place listed is on Sebastian Boulevard, County Road 512. And the second paragraph of that says, "The boulevard, excuse me, handles significant traffic moving through Sebastian. It doesn't just cater to the local population familiar with its twists and turns, but also sees a surge of out of town drivers, many of whom might be navigating it for the first time. This blend of local drivers with those less familiar with the boulevard leads to a unique dynamic.

Thank you. Thank you.

Good evening. Uh my name is Henry Wall W. Um, I want to address the uh request for amending the the uh the the waiver actually for the fence changing it to chain link on the two frontage road frontages. Um, I just want to reiterate it. It looked very innocuous in that picture that the engineer showed you of the Ashberry entrance and his emphasis that he's only bordering on a little 80ft piece, but really that whole drive is Ashberry. And on that drive, we have been mowing that section of road that he's building off of. Within the gates, it's mowed to a it's it's it's in a regular shape, but it averages 16 to 18 ft of mowed lawn. Outside the gate, it goes up to 22 and 25 ft. We've heard from the very beginning, we've heard from the development portion of the city and from them there's talk about a 20 foot vegetative buffer. There's no 20 foot bed. There's no The assumption is the whole buffer has got vegetation in it and it's going to buffer you from seeing this awesome RV park. But in fact, this vegetative buffer doesn't exist in portions of that. They're going to have to build it. There's been no I they have submitted generalized plan of what they'll do and there's comments from both the uh the city and them that there'll be a final inspection and they'll fill in places where they will not cover because of these things. In addition, inside the gates in this 20ft buffer area, there's going to be a swale to carry storm water back out to 512 through underneath the

driveway. that swale is going to be not vegetative because it's already lawn. So there's not much chance for a huge buffer there. [clears throat] So I would ask the board to really consider this waiver to change that fence from solid. It could be a positive thing. There could be a plan put in place that shows the community of Ashbury what the plannings are going to be. Could be readily remedied so forth. There is none. We're supposed to believe it's going to happen and it may or may not. I don't know, but I'm not taking a chance. The other thing is in your considerations, you're the uh city uh development charged this [snorts] body with finding that proposed outdoor storage does not present an unduly adverse effect upon the properties in the impacted area which is located. Well, I did a little research and the average taxable assessment price of the home, it's not what we pay for taxes because some are less and some are more, but for some reason all in my neighborhood, every house is worth $294,000. So, I carry it through 193 homes. It's approaches $56 million worth of property. I don't think I think it warrants a less expedient uh progression of this thing without remedying some of these issues. The main one being we're we're we're kind of supposed to believe this thing isn't going to be intrusive. The application from the lawyer says, you know, it's it's kind of like uh defeating the purpose. It's not aesthetically pleasing. the RV place. I have my I have an RV and a storage place. They're not aesthetically pleasing. I don't care where they are. You notice them all over the state. So, that's that ship already sailed. So, I I would just ask you to reconsider and at least look at um you know, putting some

more stringent things in place to guarantee that the the RV place is fits the community that's it's in front of not the 80 foot by the clubhouse, the whole rest of that road. So thank you. Thank you sir.

Good evening uh members of the planning and zoning commission. Uh my name is Alan Andis and I'm a resident of Ashberry. Could you spell that please? Yes. My last name is spelled E N I S. Thank you.

And uh just briefly, my uh professional background, I've been a registered professional engineer in the state of Florida for over 35 years. And um I'm also uh a retired member of the uh American Institute of Certified Planners. and I worked uh for planning agencies in Lexington, Massachusetts, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, Newport News, Virginia, and also obviously down here in Fort Lauderdale, as well as in West Palm Beach. [clears throat] And I was a member of the uh development review committee for the county of Palm Beach. Uh I just don't want to repeat the uh comments that have been made previously. I have to say that I agree with those comments. Uh technically I know that you don't require traffic study for this type of project but again I think there are special circumstances involved here and that's why um I believe that they need to be taken into consideration. Um, generally you don't access commercial property from a local residential street. And I can tell you that those other jurisdictions that I've worked for did not allow that under um most circumstances. And uh because of the call box location uh for Ashbury, I think that complicates the whole stacking situation because the call boxes comes before you

actually make the turn into the uh storage facility that's being proposed. And the uh distance from the uh uh curb of Ashberry Boulevard to the gate is only about 50 feet. So even if you have two um RVs side by side, which I don't really foresee happening because you only got about roughly 20 ft I think of pavement there. [clears throat] Um, and plus you have a probably a another call box in front of that gate. Uh, it's just it could create a problem with stacking through that whole area and vehicles uh with their um rear ends out onto uh Ashbury Boulevard, blocking traffic. As far as the buffers go, um the design vehicle according to Ashtto is uh 12 ft high for an RV. And uh when you got a 6T chain link fence, uh it really doesn't make much difference as far as uh screening the uh the development from uh the street. So, I uh will oppose the requested waiver from the overlay district. Thank you very much for your consideration.

Thank you, sir. Anyone else?

Thank you. Paul speaks S E A S. Thank you for uh allowing me to speak. First of all, I want to thank you because when this whole project started, uh the planning and and zoning board uh turned this project down a couple years ago, unanimously, if I'm if I'm not mistaken, and when it went to the city council, they overturned your decision and passed this to go forward. Uh and I'm just here to reiterate what most people have already said. Um, you know, there are concerns. Lighting is a concern. The dumping station is a concern. Obviously, traffic is a concern. Uh, and I just ask you to to bear those things in mind when you make your final decision. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Okay. Would the applicant care to respond to anything?

[cough and clears throat]

Good evening, commissioners. My name is Jonathan Roach, R Ho Dac. I'm a local attorney here. Um, and I represent the applicant and I believe Mr. Schuli introduced me briefly when he got up here before. I just want to address some of the comments because when you are analyzing this issue, you're doing so from a legal perspective. And I'm not trying to step on your city attorney's toes in any way, shape, or form, but your decisions are based on not feelings, not what people think is going to happen, but what we call competent substantial evidence under the law. There is a high burden on applicants when these matters are submitted before you. There's engineering requirements. There are concern concurrency requirements. All of that analysis was performed and the applicant has worked handinhand with staff to address the real concerns that have been raised today. This isn't uncommon. Opposition to a project is not uncommon. For instance, when Ashberry was coming in and being applied for, this whole room was full of people opposed to the project and all the traffic concerns and how it was going to wreck the city of Sebastian. All the typical stuff that you typically see that comes with new development. The concerns that have been raised have been addressed by the experts with respect to traffic, with respect to access. This we're talking about dimminimous increase in traffic along that road. Why enter on this road? Because in 2005, that was a plat requirement. It was

dedicated to the public for purposes of accessing these two property after Ashberry Boulevard. That is why this is being engineered to occur here. We're talking about 78 trips. Without context, we are talking less than 4% amount of the traffic that is going to be on that road. 96% of that in excess of 96% of the traffic on that road is going to still come from Ashberry even after this is developed. That is why when we say this doesn't meet the threshold why there isn't this need for this traffic study. Some of the other concerns that were raised up, buffering, there is your 20ft buffering on the side. The chain link fence, the chain link fence is designed to match the foliage that is going to surround this property as shown by Mr. Schuli initially where there is going to be any interaction with the Ashberry community. It's going to be in the rear of the clubhouse. Not any of the homes, but in the rear of the clubhouse, which also has vegetation behind it. So, this property for the most part is not going to be seen from the outside by the Ashberry residents. We have addressed the concerns. The applicant has addressed the concerns to mitigate the impacts that are going to be on the neighboring properties. That's why you have the substantial report that you do. Please rely on your staff report making your decision. This meets your land development code regulations. This meets the triangle overlay district regulations. It minimizes impacts. This meets all your conditional use

requirements and it's a project that makes sense. And for that reason, I ask that you respectfully request or grant the application that are being submitted for you tonight. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Staff summary.

Um just a little bit of clarification since I know a lot of the residents brought it up with regards to um and we're familiar with 512. Um, if you do think about on that north side of 512, it has the sidewalk, it has the cypress trees from uh pretty much well all of the entrances, anything of the roads going north are all local streets. You have the Louisiana Avenue, the entrance into Orange Heights, uh, Powerline Road, or entrances into subdivisions. There are no driveways for commercial entities on that north side of 512. I do not know for sure. We did not speak to Inver County, but I'm not sure of back in 2003 or five. Um, the developer did put a public access easement. The road is not public from 512 into Ashbury. It is a private drive, but they overlaid uh on the plat there is a public access easement. Yes, for both of those commercial properties that are on either side of that road. For whatever reason, this particular property is not a part of Ashberry subdivision. the property, it's a 1acre property on the other side of the boulevard is tract A, uh, Ashbury subdivision. That track belongs to Ashberry. When that gets to be developed, it's also zone CG. If they need to pay HOA fees, that's all within their HOA documents, but I wanted to clarify. Um, I'm not sure why that was why that public access easement was put on that public road. I have a feeling it has something to do with the drainage and that sidewalk that is on there that Indian River County might may have come back and said we're not going to give any driveway off of Sebastian Boulevard. Um, and that's why this public access easement was overlaid over this private drive uh and for access for these two roads. Again, I can't speak to um if they if they reached out to the county to see if they could get access from Sebastian Boulevard instead of Ashbury Boulevard, but I have a feeling that there is something that the county may have said back that said, "We're not going to give any driveways on that side

of of uh Sebastian Boulevard to commercial entities. You don't get any driveways until you get past 510." When you get out there by the Burger King and the uh um uh school and all, then there's some commercial driveways, but otherwise, there are no commercial driveways on that side. So, that could be an explanation on why the access is from Ashbury Boulevard. Um, a some other clarification, the the chainlink fence is not going to be on the outside of the buffer that you see from the road. It's on the inside of that 20 foot buffer. Uh, the area along Ashbury Boulevard there there is some area that is mowed. There's, you know, there is about 10 20 10 15 feet that the gentleman mentioned, but that is part of the rideway. that buffer where you see those saw palmettos and those pine trees uh is part of that 20 foot buffer their their property line. So some of the area is mowed, but that is part of the rideway, not necessarily this buffer that we're and we will make sure at that final inspection. Those saw pomemettos are already 5 to 6 feet tall. You are going to see the top of them um top of those RVs and boats, but we'll make sure that there's still that 6-ft opaque and they're having to plant, if you saw in the landscaping plan, 110 additional trees um are also going to be planted in and with uh on the interior of that of that buffer. So they see that we're confident that the buffer is going to work. But I did want to um bring something to point in that what staff has reviewed is code compliance with the land development code and the very black and white part of the conditional use criteria. I had pointed out on page six and staff does not do this. This is the determination of the planning and zoning commission. Um because it is a conditional use. If it was just going to be a permitted use, they wouldn't have come up with this criteria. But you also have that review of is this so designed, located and proposed to be operated so that the public health, safety and welfare will be protected. Uh these are some of the more general things that is up to the board to consider if you feel this conditional use is uh meets this

and will and will not affect that neighborhood. Um so there is what staff has reviewed and what we're saying is that it meets all the land development code. It meets the specific criteria for the conditional use. Um and a waiver the waiver is also up to you. Uh we noted in our staff report that um what the code states is that you can grant the waiver if the requirements of the article places an inordinate burden on the property owner. Um so if there was an inordin burden to instead put a wooden fence or PVC fence um that you could grant that waiver. So I did want to just point that out with u with regards to your consideration tonight. Um but with regards to the land development code, the specific criteria of the conditional use staff does feel that this meets th those requirements.

Thank you. Deliberation Commissioners, let's deliberate. No comment. Miss Gy, any additional comments? No. No. Nothing.

Mr. Rego. No. Okay. I have additional comments. We are asked to do a job that is much more difficult than it may appear. Um, time and time again, many of us have been doing this a long time. Time and time again, we find ourselves trying to fit today's lifestyle into yesterday's rules. And we're stuck with some things that really don't work as well as the people back then thought they would. One of those things is to give use to a of a private road to the general public without being specific as to what purpose. Um, if I ruled the world, I would have considered that a mistake, but we're all really lucky that I don't rule the world. Um, there are a number of anomalies in the city of Sebastian, as there are in any city and in any development, that [snorts] might deserve changing if we could change them. But some of it is beyond our control, and we're just stuck with what it is. Um, as far as fitting the black and white criteria with or without the waiver, I I find that yeah, that's there. As far as the part about determining which is more what is more subjective to us is that it's this is

asking us to determine that this particular development will uh be designed and located and proposed to be operated so that the public health, safety and welfare will be protected does not present unduly adverse effect upon other properties in the impacted area in which it is located based on the scale intensity and operation. The use shall not generate unreasonable noise, traffic, congestion or other potential nuisance or hazards to contiguous residential properties. Conforms to all applicable provisions of the district in which it is to be located. satisfy specific criteria stipulated for the respective conditional use described above and is consistent with the code of ordinances and comprehensive plan. This is asking us to make make an opinion. Um this is the kind of development that is needed and necessary. Um, as as many of us care, myself included, we've owned recreational vehicles, we find they don't fit in our personal driveways. We want nice, safe places to store them. Um, this is not a bad development. Our question is, is it in the right place? And that's all I have to say about it. So, I will call for a motion.

[snorts] No motion. No motion. Dory, may I ask you? The waiver is only for the chain link fence. Correct.

The waivers um Yes. The code says that you can't have chain link in your front yards. So they can still have it on two sides. uh they're just so that there are continuous with the same type of fence to do chain link in that those two front yards. It'll be on the site plan shows that the fence is placed on the interior of the buffer. So you'll have all those plants or the the saw pomemettos and the new landscaping and then the fence. It's not on the outside visible from the road. That's what the waiver is requesting. Then I'll make a motion to approve the waiver for the chain link fence at the Amaron boat and RV storage 45 Ashberry Boulevard. Um

so the motion is just for the waiver. They won't need the waiver if the site plan depending on the motion for the site plan. Well, what order should we do these in? So, I believe the motion, you can make a motion all once, but if you want to break it up, it should definitely be the the conditional use permit. Um, if you deny the conditional use permit, the site plan becomes mute in the waiver. I you can do a motion for the site plan and the conditional use. I'll lab I'll forward that to to I have a question for Yeah, I would definitely agree. We we you could do it together, but if you are going to do it in pieces, conditional use has to go first

and then the waiver and then the site plan because the site plan in comp the site plan can only be approved if you've given that conditional use in that waiver. So, and if I can if I may ask, what happens if we don't have a motion? Well, you're called to have a motion. So, this needs to either be recommended for approval or recommended for denial.

Okay. So, we are required to make a motion. Thank you. So this I I can let you know that this is the this is this is the quazo. So it it is the motion for denial or approval. Uh it doesn't the site plans do not go on to to city council for approval of the site plans. [snorts and clears throat] So so we can make a motion to deny it right away. Correct. You can. So, I go ahead and I'll make that motion to deny the conditional. What is it? The conditional approval. Okay.

Um, just one point of order. If if there's going to be a motion to deny, it has to you have to state the the reason for it because they're because of the rights of the property owner. So, you have to say denied for which of the criteria they they fall short on. Can you do that? Can you give us which of the criteria you're making your denial based on? So it' be from the letters here. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. M

or it can also be the um under um additional considerations. Number 19.

[snorts] What happens if they meet all our code, but it's denied anyway? So, I think what Mr. Stokes is saying is that you may find that you're denying it because you may find that the traffic is not going to be good for that based on some or it's going to be detrimental to the area. Um if it's denied, it should have a reason. Um there is an appeal process.

Uh so um you know, we can if they wish to appeal it, that would that goes to city council and that of course would be a public hearing. Letters go out to surrounding property owners if that is the process. Um but yes, it should have uh uh which is what staff had stated in terms of the code. It meets it meets the requirements. it meets the specific requirements of the conditional use. It uh the outdoor the other condition the other criteria that this planning and zoning has to um find that may be what you're denying it on and that would be what needed to be stated.

Okay. So I think we discussed 19 point 197 correct about the the um the hazardous material stored on the property was the concern and then the safety of the residents going driving into that development as a safety concern. Correct. Yes, we did. So would that be what you would I think I need a little bit more guidance from you here on this one.

Um you when you are making the motion you can use anything um that is under additional considerations because above that above 19 that all fits right. Correct.

Okay. If you have any concerns about anything under after 19, you can make that part of your reason for making a motion for denial. And I would recommend quoting it exactly the way it's written. And if it is, you know, does that help?

I guess I'm not not comfortable. I guess we just we had we had to to pick one of them. So you have to pick it. I have [clears throat] Would it just be one, two, and three? No, it could be. Anybody else? I'd like to make a motion. Yes, sir. To approve a new site plan plus the conditional use permit plus the waiver request for the Amron boat and RV storage located at 45 Ashport Boulevard with all conditions. With all conditions. Do we have a second? I'll second that.

Roll call. I'd like to make a Yes, sir. correction. Uh, we did have a uh a six recommendation as far as no overnight stays. Oh, that's right. Thank you. Okay. [clears throat] If if that's going to be added, if we could just circle that back around to the motion maker and the second maker to to amend their motion and I'll add the sixth one. No overnight stays. Okay. Do you want me to say the whole thing over? No, that's okay. No, that's fine. Cindy. And you agree? No, Cindy. Oh, I'm sorry. She agrees. Okay. Roll call vote, please. Yes. Miss Cotenberg, no. Mr. Roberts,

no. Mr. Gardon, no. Mr. Reno, yes. Miss Gasey, no. Miss Laruso? Yes. Mr. Carter? No,

we have five no and two yes. So the motion does not carry. Motion is defeated. Okay. Mr. Approved, Madam Chair. Yes.

Because this is affirmative relief that the applicant has asked for, you do have to now entertain a motion, another motion. Um either another motion variation to approve or a motion to deny with a stated reason. But but but that motion failing does not close this matter. We still need you need to either approve or deny this item. And voting no on a motion to approve is not the same as a denial. You have to have a motion to deny. Got it. Got it. Okay, [snorts] that motion has been denied. Will someone make a motion to deny the

or or it could be another variation. I'm not Yeah, we don't know at this point why people voted no. So, I would just entertain another motion. Okay, we need another motion. Okay. I can make the motion to deny the conditional. Was it the conditional use permit? Is that what you have to deny the the whole application? Yeah, the the conditional use application.

Okay. Is that cover reason? Yeah. I mean, that's okay. We need a second. He needs a reason. He doesn't know to know he needs a reason. Do we still need a reason? Yes, you do. You do have to state a [clears throat] reason. Okay. Where was where was that quote about resident safety that we had? Under 19. That's This is the one he needs right here. This one. Yeah. No, it's this one right here. You have to you have to

Which number is this? Okay, so it's [clears throat] it's 19.1. Planning zoning commission must also find that the proposed outdoor storage facility use is so designed, located, and proposed to be operated so that the public health, safety, and welfare will be protected. And we're saying we denied it. You denied for that reason. For that reason. Yes, ma'am. Thank you, Mr. Okay. Do we have a second for that? No. I'll second it. Miss Gasey? Yes. Roll call vote.

Okay. [clears throat] Miss Laruso. No. Miss Gasey.

I'm sorry. This is to deny. Correct. A yes vote is to deny. A no vote is saying no, not to deny. Again, if if you vote yes with this vote, you're voting to deny. Yes, Mr. Reno. No, [snorts] Mr. Carter. Yes, Mr. Garton. Yes, Miss Cottonberg. Yes.

So, we have two nos. And wait. Mr. Roberts, you made the motion to deny. Is that correct? Correct. Okay. All right. Mr. Roberts, how do you vote? Oh, we already did that. Okay. So, we have five the one to deny it. You want five for denial and two for non-denial. So, this vote passes.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you for trying so hard.

That concludes the business for this evening. This meeting is adjourned. to make short order of this for your benefit. someone has to get the meeting back all set up again.

I move that uh No, we're we're we're fine cuz we're fine. We're fine. But I don't have anything on the record. Just you just take notes for this. There's there's no legal requirement that it be recorded or televised or anything. We just need this point of clarification that this item encompassed all three. So So this we need to make a a motion that the new I can't take short.

We're denying all we we just we just need that clarification and it can just be a consensus. Doesn't have to be a formal motion or anything. just a consensus on the part of the commission that you were addressing all three items and that they were all denied with that one vote. So conc just entertain a you know get get everyone's concession if if anyone on the commission disagrees with that does everybody understand that yes I'm sure it read off

the the new site permit the conditional use permit and the waiver request for this the attempt was to cover all three okay everybody understand that here and I second that and that's exactly what we all agreed do. Yes. Okay. Except those who voted the other way didn't agree to that. He said we we could do a voice vote for this. Do we need to have a voice? You don't have to do a a roll call. Just just a consensus vote. So just you know consensus. Now what is the consensus v vote? Yeah. Yes. Because it it's just a procedural issue. This is something it's procedural that they're agreeing that that that vote was for all three items. And I'll put that in the notes. Yes. Okay.

Yes. All right. Okay. So, now all three items are disposed of. Thank you. Now, thank you. Wow. Oh my god.