Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I am calling to order this meeting, February 5th, the City of Sebastian Planning and Zoning Commission. We'll begin with the Pledge of Allegiance. United States nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Roll call, please. Yes. Mr. Roberts, here. Mr. Garton. Miss Cotenberg here. Mr. Carter present. Miss Russo here. Mr. Reno here. Miss Kinshen here. Miss Geese here. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay. Uh the announcements for this evening are that uh Ms. Battles is excused from tonight's uh meeting and our alternate Mr. Roberts will be voting in her place today. Um, also before we begin tonight, I I am really happy to see so many faces here. Um, it's very important for us to have input from the public and it and some of you I think have never been here before. So, I'd like to just real briefly um introduce you to the order of how this meeting runs. Um there will be a time during the meeting when you may come up and speak, give us your opinions. Um you'll have three minutes each to do that, not more than three minutes. Otherwise, we would have to uh probably have uh bedding shipped in because we'd be here all night. Um, we ask to be kind to each other. Um, and not too repetitive if you could. And, uh, remember that we do not permit applause or booing or stomping your of your feet. And, uh, we like to keep this a peaceful and kind public meeting. Um, we did have some chairs set up outside. Anticipating a large group of people tonight. Um, it's too cold to sit outside. But you can sit, those of you who are standing, you can sit in the lobby, uh, which is much more pleasant than standing at the edge of the room. And there is a screen in the lobby. You'll be able to hear and see everything

that's going on. And if you wish to come and make um, a speech to us, you can just come through that door. We'll we'll make sure that the doors are open and um it's important for us to hear everybody who wants to speak and I think that's enough for my announcements. Okay. Um the next order of business is approval of the minutes of our previous meeting of January 15. And I believe that uh everyone here has had an opportunity to review those minutes. So we will if you don't have any additions or corrections, we'll entertain a motion.

Madam Chair, I'll make a motion that we accept the minutes of the Planning and Zoning Commission for January 15, 2026 as is. I second. All in favor? I No, no opposed. So, that motion is carried. The next item on our agenda is um a public hearing, which is why we're all here tonight. Madam Chair,

yes. Um what staff is going to um recommend is have our city attorney read all three of the items into the record and then we would like to do more or less one big presentation and discussion regarding these three items because they all are kind of combined and then after your deliberation we can break down on the motions that you would need to consider um or make um according to the agenda items. But um we can do all of them together and they can be read in together. We'll present all as one item.

Thank you. And I'd also like to for the benefit of those who are here, I'd um like you to um understand that during the time that the commission has their discussion, we often times uh it's the only time we can talk to each other about what we're going to be voting on is in public in front of the public. So sometimes uh we bring up things that um may or may not have any bearing on what's going on. uh may or may not be something that you like hearing. Um but if it's in our minds, the only way we can get it out is to discuss it with each other. And um well, thank you for your patience for that. We have um three issues and as I understand it the if we don't pass the first one we can't even it would be fruitless to vote on the other two because you can't it's kind of like you can't put your shoes on till you get your socks on. It just doesn't work the other way.

Okay. I do need to clarify that chairman. You will still have to make motions on the other ones, but it'll be kind of laid out right those with your first decision. Thank you. Okay. Fire attorney will read the ordinance for us, please.

Yes, ma'am. So, we have three items um on the agenda. Item A is a public hearing uh for a recommendation to city council on Ches Gap commercial PUD request to modify the conceptual plan unit development plan. Sebastian Town Houses LLC applicant 58 acres more or less request to reduce size to 28.27 acres located at Sebastian Boulevard and Fleming Street southwest of the Sebastian 512 Commerce Center. Current land use to remain is CG, general commercial. Zoning to remain is PUDC, which is planned unit development commercial. Item B is a public hearing for a recommendation to city council Chester's Gap PUD future land use map. The Flume amendment small scale Sebastian Town Houses LLC applicant 29.43 43 acres more or less located at Sebastian Boulevard and Fleming Street southwest of Sebastian 512 Commerce Center. Current land use is CG commercial uh general commercial. Requested land use is MDR medium density residential 10 units per acre. And then item C is a public hearing for a recommendation to city council. Chester's Gap PUD reszoning conceptual planned unit development plan Sebastian Town Houses LLC applicant 29.43 acres more or less located at Sebastian Boulevard and Fleming Street southwest of Sebast of the Sebastian 512 Commerce Center. Current zoning is PUDC planned unit development commercial. Requested zoning is PUDR planned unit development residential with RM10 multifamily residential district as the

underlying district. Thank you. If our applicant would please uh make the presentation now. Thank you, Madam Chair. And kindly, again, I forgot to mention this before. If your name isn't John Smith, when you speak, we're going to ask you to spell your name out clearly so that our secretary can record it properly. And that's for anybody who speaks here. Okay. Thank you.

I think my last name, Vatunac, falls under that category for sure. Uh, my name is Doug Vatunac, which is spelled V as in Victor. it unacc. And uh good evening everyone. I'm uh the attorney for the applicant. Also with me today is uh Todd Howder, the project engineer, Alex the traffic engineer, and the developer representative, Nelson Fernandez. And I see a lot of our supporters showed up. No. But I I do want to urge everybody to just try to keep an open mind because I think by the end of this some of you will see that this project is definitely good for the city of Sebastian and some of you will even see that this project is better than some of the alternatives that can go in there and some of you will not change your

excuse me sir with that. Everything gets recorded but it has to go through the microphone in order for that to happen. Okay. Thank you. Uh just urging everybody to keep an open mind as I go through sort of some of the history of the project first and the property first and then into what our project would entail and some of the benefits uh that that it has. Thank you. So um here's what we're trying to do in a nutshell. We're part of a commercial PUB currently. And if we were to look at the current one, which we'll do in a moment, um in fact, why don't we pull up u this? Can I use this overhead if I put something here? Yes.

Okay, the PowerPoint's on here. Let me just shift through it here. So, here's what we're looking at presently with the PUB commercial. And what we can see here that we're approved for use is light industrial and there is some multifamily residential already on one of the pieces. On another piece there's professional office and more commercial and then on the uh the western northwestern piece is PUDC commercial retail. Um, the city is actually in need of multifamily housing. And what we would like to do is pull our property out of the commercial PUD, which has been there since 1987. These parcels still remain vacant, haven't been developed commercial yet, and build town houses. That's what we would like to do. Um, I think if you go around town and you talk to people, especially business owners, or if you go out to eat, you will hear that businesses have a problem finding employees that can live in our community because housing costs are expensive, rents are high, and this is a problem um for Sebastian because of in part a lack of multifamily housing, which this will work to to solve. Um, the good thing about town houses is you own the the property. You own the lot. This is not a condo or an apartment unit. Uh, people will own these lots and these houses and yet they're what we call attainable housing. The price point on these houses will start at $285,000 and they will go up to 300 or or more.

But um this is an opportunity for people who want to start families, young professionals, people who are in the workforce, who are looking for their piece of the American dream. And if we if I put on the overhead projector, the city has recognized in the past its need for more multifamily housing. In 2021, I think it adopted a RM10 ordinance which allows 10 units multif family per acre. Can I um switch to the overhead? And what I've got here, I got to talk into the mic and reach over here. um is the uh agenda for a meeting that was held in 2025 before this body in which the requirements for RM10 were uh lessened and the purpose for that which we'll see in a highlighted part here in a moment once I get there. If you see that second highlighted line, it's because this will make housing prices more affordable in today's economy and it supports the amendments to the land development code that have been made. In other words, the adoption of an RM10 ordinance. attached to this agenda packet, something called a data inventory and analysis. And if we take a look at this document, it's it's by Sebastian uh having to do with its comp plan 20 240, which is the one that's in effect now. and it

compares these types of dwelling units in in the city of Sebastian and the amount thereof to Indian River County. And you'll see there the highlighted at the bottom talks about the multifamily availability. There are a total of 287 units in Sebastian. That's only 2.6% of the total housing. If you look at the units in Indian River County on the other hand, they have 22.9% of their housing is multifamily. And um reading through this memo, you see that it's a policy of the city of Sebastian to provide for a mix of housing options. And one way to do that is to have some multifamily. So I think that the uh it's recognized in the city at least that that type of use is needed. Now I understand that commercial is probably needed too but you can't have you have to have the the housing for the people who are going to work in the businesses before you have the commercials. I think this piece needs to come first. If I go to slide one here. So, in 2014, let me make sure I got the date right. 2014, a prior owner applied for and received a special use permit from the city of Sebastian to allow um the property that we're talking about here tonight to be developed as an RV park. And this is a uh possible development plan, although this hasn't been site planned out, but the applicant tonight holds this permit. It is active and effective and could go forward with

theoretically a site plan for an RV park. I'm told that nobody wants that. And um being multifamily housing developers, we would prefer to do multi multifamily housing, which I think has some advantages over this. But that's that's what's possible on the site. Now, there areund I see 149 lots or pads you'd call them, but I think we talked about maybe it would be available for 148 for some reason. We already talked about what the property is now. uh when you're talking commercial uses, light industrial, commercial, retail, things like that, um you will actually we and our traffic engineer will testify later that that is more intense on in terms of traffic than would be the proposed multifamily housing development that we're asking for. So, this we could do with just a site plan application and develop, but we would be more intense and I think have more of an effect on the the neighbors that have shown up here tonight and definitely with the RV park. So, uh that's something to consider as well. Also, you'll hear from our engineer about some of the amenities in our plan. You don't get amenities with the commercial development. So whereas we have a a kayak launch in our plan our conceptual plan that we'll get to in a moment. Uh we have a basketball court, you're not going to see much of that with a commercial development if any. You'll also see more impervious area, more concrete, big parking lot. Whereas when you look at a multif family development, you're getting landscaping, you're getting families, um and you're getting certain amenities. So, those are some advantages as well to um to the recommendation tonight that we're asking for.

This next slide is what what we're requesting. So you can see the north parcel getting pulled out of the PUD commercial and put into a PUDR residential allowing RM10. Same with the Southwest and the Southeast and the PUDC commercial general would stay that. The next slide I have is Pretty interesting. And it's just sort of a visual depiction of the zoning of Sebastian. And you see all that light yellow. I don't know if I have a pointer, but you can see the light yellow around the proposed PUDR. That's all single family housing. And it's wonderful housing, but you can see the lack of multif family. There's one little area just to the east on Sebastian Boulevard off of there that's multifamily. There's a couple down maybe downtown waterfront and then there's a couple to the south, but you you don't see a whole lot of multifamily residential or what we which is that forms a basis of what we call attainable housing. The last slide, which will take forever to load because it's got a lot of data in it, um, is the conceptual plan landscaping.

Please save your comments until you're speaking. So I I I hear the voices that are here, but what you have to consider is the voices of the people that will make their family right here, that will make this their first home, that will be able to have a job in this community because they have a place to live. The those voices should be those voices exist if they're not here tonight, okay? But they they will exist if this plan goes through. It's in a good place for this because it's near Sebastian Boulevard. You go right out on Fleming onto that road. Um it is uh in the comp plan that it's places where you can e easily mobilize is where we should put multifamily. So the city needs it. We're ready to provide it. And um I think that what you'll find from your staff report is that if you choose to do the recommendation and if the city council chooses to adopt um and and approve our applications that there's nothing in the code that would prevent this. In other words, we've jumped through a lot of we've been working with your staff since 2020 late 2021 actually met with them in early 2022. We've gone back and forth through several rounds of comments. We've tried to accommodate what uh what the staff and what the city wants to see. And um I I really hope that I can change some of the minds in the audience. I know I'm not going to change all of them, but I I do think that there's going to be somebody who would rather have this public um kayak launch, public basketball court. There's some things that the public can use in this plan that you won't see in the RV plan and that you won't see in the commercial shopping center plan either, which is already approved. And um so with that, thanks for your time and attention. I want to turn things over to Todd Hower.

Don't worry, I will need to use this guy. So just Okay. Is he in the back? Should be.

Good evening. My name is Todd Hower. That's H O W D as in David Eer.

Got it. You're welcome. With MVV Engineering, the uh engineer representing the engineering firm. just want to touch on some of uh some some of the details Doug talked about of what this our develop would bring if you um if you guys do consider the multif family use and transitioning to that use. So I wanted to provide some comparison points. What I have on screen is this is what the uh devel development criteria that we could do right now with the existing PUD as it is today. not doing the multif family but just going forward with the existing PUD development on screen. So there's there's several criteria that we have to design to and and meet with the parameters with the with the city when a development is done. and they really focus on the the impacts of imperous area, hard surface area, uh building uh square footage, how much a building takes over a parcel, and just just the mass uh mass the massing of buildings, the massing of uh hard surfaces. So, that's what I just kind of wanted to highlight and just have everybody to digest tonight. Even though you saw the plan, I know they everyone saw the units, but I I want to kind of just bring some context with some numbers of what it actually represents and means. So the existing development right now that we could do, we are allowed to put in a development right now that would we could create up to a maximum of 75% of impervious area. So that land that's left that is still grass and trees right now. We could actually impact that with 75% of impervious area. That's parking, sidewalks, buildings, anything hard surface. We're also only held to a minimum open space. That's your green area for something like this for commercial to 25%. So 75% is going to could be hard surface and 25% out of the remaining acreage would only be used for the landscape and green area. The max building coverage under this existing

PUD is 54%. What that means is the total acreage that is available to be developed 54% of that could be buildings. It could be big buildings. It could be multiple buildings, three-story buildings. That's what is permitted by code right now. Uh maximum building height is 35 feet and maximum floor area ratio which is the square footage of floors where this we're inside a building right now. This is floor area ratio. So again is 50% of the acreage that's available to date. Um with this existing PUD there are no amenities required. There's no amenities required of the parcel. There's no off-site amenities required. Nothing like that. It's just a straight up site plan. So, taking this through, what I would like to do is show you what the city has enacted. And actually, Dory, I believe was it was it 2020? Was it last year the RM10 zoning actually came on?

It was it was actually last year that the city did feel that they needed more multif family choices to allow in the community in proper areas in a straight up RM10 zoning. You guys have heard RM10 tonight, but we're under a PUD. And I'll I'll get into that in the next slide. But if this was a straight up RM10 and we did not have to come in front of you tonight, then these are the design criteria under the RM10 ordinance. As you can see with this one, a max impervious aotment is 70%. And again, 70% of a multif family RM10 site could be hard surface. your minimum open space, it's 30%, it's a little bit more than what's developed now with um that we could do with a commercial PUD. Remember that was 25. This would get you a little bit more green area. Your max building coverage increases to 60%. So that means 60% under an RM10 district could have 60% of building footprint. Max building height 35 ft is permissible and the floor area ratio the same thing as a building coverage is could be a 6 which is 60%. Now, a straight up RM10 zoning. If we were here and it was a straightup RM10 parcel, we didn't have to have any type of um PNZ approval, then there wouldn't be any off-site amenities required. There would be something on site that you'd have to do for your for the uh for the homeowners, but there wouldn't have to be anything offsite. So, the next slide I want to take you to Whoa. There we go. Come on back, baby. There we go. Okay. Yeah. Dizzy. Okay. It's the This would perfect. This would be inside this PUD. We're now honing in on the Chester's Gap PUD. Whenever you do a multif family development under a PUD, there's different regulations. Even though we're seeking RM10, which is the 10 dwelling

units per acre, we cannot go by what you just saw on that slide of strap RM10, there's a little bit more stricter requirements, and that's what I wanted to show on this slide. So, under the multif family approach that we're seeking tonight, and it would have shown on that colorized landscape plan is you have to have a minimum of 50% of open space. So, you get a lot more green space. Again, 25% commercial, you get 50% with the with a with a PU PUDR uh multif family. The impervious area is also reduced. Again, that's the massing of hard surface. So, you can you're you're down to 50% only 50% of the site and that includes all your buildings and sidewalks and pavement can only be could only be hard surface only 50%. Your building coverage, you are allowed to have that 60% with also 6 floor area ratio. Another thing is your building height is reduced by 10 ft. So you go from 35 to 25. So with this PUD, you can see it starts constricting and really starts even even with RM10 zoning, it's even more constrictive of some of the requirements. So you're bringing that height down to 25 ft. And with the PDR, we must provide amenities on site. And there's also a requirement in the code that we have to provide off-site amenities to the public that any of you could use, any of the neighborhoods can use. So that's what you would get with this type of development within the PUD if this would be considered for approval. The last side I just want to I want to show just kind of sums everything up. I I went over three slides. It kind of brings it all together so you can see the numbers, what they look like side by side. Okay, let's go do the Okay, and I'll explain why I have a top a top and a bottom and what you guys can see with this now does represent our

project. And I will go back to the screen of the colorized plan here in a moment, but this does represent our project going from left to right. This is a comparison of all those development requirements that I just spoke about the existing PUD from the strict RM10 if we're RM10 to PUD residential multif family which again is what we're in. The final column on the far right represents our project. I've got on the top that is what the lenai and I'll explain the colors right off the bat. Green means we are below the thresholds of the existing PUD right now. So if you went with this type of development, we are we are close to 20 to 22% less of building coverage with our plan. We are almost 20% just shy with the lenai less of impervious area compared to the existing PUD. Our minimum open space requirement is 50%. That is by code. The reason you see 53 and 47 and I I call it a light peach or the orange is under this plan we would be breaching the 50% requirement and the for for those two items. So that is something that we were asking for that if you guys would approve it and that's just with lenai and what the lenai would be is on the back of the town homes they're just little 8ft porches with overhang. So we had to calculate that square footage into the overall because again it's hard surface. So that's why those numbers are a little bit over the what would be required. But so now going down to the bottom that is without lenise. If if council considered that they could work with us but would they wanted us to stay within the parameters and could not permit with lenai then you could see all the numbers without lenai. Our project exceeds every one of those zoning and and you can see the differences. I remember we're going from 70 70 to 50 impervious. We're going

from only 25% open space of green. We're going to do 50. So our building height is from 35 to 25. And then we're going to also also provide amenities to the public which I'm going to show you in this in this next slide. Okay. With our project, what we will be required to do is a couple things. One, we are required to do off-site what we call offsite recreational area. that is for anybody in this room we can use. We would try to make it we want to make it neighborhood centric. Chester's gap has been in this been in this location for a long time. There's residential communities around it. Well, I know people would like parks. So, we're trying so we tried to build that into it where hey, how could we we know where we'd be coming into the community. How could we integrate something that they could also use? So, and I will go back to the colorized slide, but our pond area, our very large pond area, we would recontour the pond, make a little bit bigger. We would do landscaping, and then we would actually, it's actually 3.35 acres of an offsite area that we would develop, and that would be for the community use for the surrounding neighborhoods. Um, we wouldn't put in a walking trail, benches, increased uh landscaping, the kayak and canoe launch Doug was talking about, and I'll show you where that is on the slide here in a second. We would permit fishing which is allow allowed in the pond. U we would also construct the pickleball court and basketball court right at the end that the public could use that that it would be open to the neighborhood. The public infrastructure getting away from that but the public infrastructure and we've been coordinating with Dory on this. We would actually provide street sidewalks all the way from right now, there are some sidewalks that do exist, but we would finish the connectivity from 512 down Fleming on both sides all the way down to Harbor Point and Aria Street. So, we'd incorporate sidewalks that aren't there now to those areas. So,

there's a lot of pedestrian connectivity. We'd also construct a sidewalk from Wave Street where the school is. I think I know everybody knows where that is. We would go ahead and construct a sidewalk from Fleming down Wave Street to George to provide that connectivity. We'd also install, as you guys will see here in a second, a along Fleming Street, the streetscape with uh shade trees, benches, lighting. That's what does not exist today. So, we're trying to provide all these extra benefits that would come with this as opposed to just sticking with the existing commercial PUD that we could do right now today in what it is. Um, I would ask if we could go back now I'm I'm done with this guy. If we could go back to the to the uh PowerPoint. Thank you. So, what I just said you got in in words there is the large pond that we would turn into the recreational track that would be open to the neighborhood and and the public. You can see in tan that is the walking trail that we do have around the pond. Uh you can see the trees that would be we do know there's trees there now but we would embellish the landscaping provide a great buffer between the other the homes on the back side of Harbor Point. You you can see the pickle ball courts down there at the right hand the bottom right hand corner. Um and then you can see the streetscape and sidewalks. It kind of goes off into the white and goes off of the page. We don't show the entirety of the sidewalks going back to but that is something that we would do. So I just wanted to point just just some some hard facts and some numbers of I know everyone's you know hey massing and impervious area of what this would actually what the numbers add up to compared to what they would add up to under the under the commercial. So the other part that we want to talk about is I know there's you know concerns with traffic. So, we have Alex with Kimley Horn. I'd like to bring him up so he can discuss some traffic items with you.

Just just first before you leave, Todd, is there a way to um to use a cursor on this thing to show people where the trail? Yeah. Could you show us Yeah. Where did Where does the public come in and get to use the um the walk? So, show us the walking trail. Yeah. So, right where the

the public would enter into this parking area. And this is the pickle ball court and the basketball court. This is the walking trail which that's where the public would enter up at the front. This little dark brown area is the canoe and kayak launch. The public would then they could ingress and egress around the pond. We would we do have a turnaround. What's a little bit different with this plan? We don't have this this little area is actually on the adjacent neighbor's property. I think it's the lodge. We don't have rights to do that. So, we would bring the uh walking trail back and not breach onto their property. Uh this internal path is for residents of the community when we would do is we would we would construct a gate of some type to keep the public from going behind the units. We want to be protective of that. Uh this other pond to the south which is ex existing, we would also clean that area up. We would embellish that with landscaping and we'd also create a walking trail with benches and trees and landscape around there. all accessible by the sidewalk system that we would put in and this pond would also be accessed by by the public. So So at that point now I'd like to bring like I said Alex back up to discuss some of the track traffic concerns you may you may have. So Alex

uh good evening madam chair uh members of the planning and zoning commission. Uh my name is Alex Memoring uh Okay. Can you hear me now?

Good. Okay. Uh, last name, uh, M E M E R I N G. You're welcome. Um, I'm going to try to go through these real quick. I apologize. Okay, so just kind of going back through the process here. We're dealing with um four properties that are approximately 29.43 acres um in area and it's generally located um just off of 512 north and south of South Fleming Street and currently as previously stated um it's PUDC. Um this was approved uh in 2004 I believe and um with that designation uh with PUD you can have mixed uses. So in this case you can have commercial, industrial, residential etc. And so for this property, um the makeup or the maximum density that you can have for these properties as is today for your future land use is approximately 418,000 or so square ft of commercial, 56,600 ft of industrial use, and about 116 multifamily dwelling units. Now the maximum square footage densities were um they they were um calculated based upon converting the acreage to square footage and then applying what's called a floor area ratio which basically defines how much building you can have um on a piece of land. In this case for this PUB it's approximately.35. So the results of this as it is today with the future land use the trip generation potential is approximately

13,600 daily trips, 385 a.m. peak hour trips and then 1,260 PM peak hour trips. Um what the future land use amendment is going to do is um request obviously from this PUD to uh medium residential density which allows for 10 dwelling units per acre. So it gets rid of the commercial industrial uses and it's only obviously related to residential. That allows for 294 dwelling units. Those units would generate approximately 1,2 uh 1,960 daily trips, 114 a.m. peak hour trips, and then 147 p.m. peak hour trips. This trip generation is uh done based upon it trip generation manual, which is a transportation indust industry standard, and it's also proved by the land development code for uh city of St. uh Sebastian. So this the from what's there today for the future land use versus the amendment is a a major reduction of traffic which would be a reduction of about 11,600 daily trips 271 a.m. trips and then 1,113 p.m. uh peak hour trips. And then similarly for the reszoning designation um obviously it would go to PUDR which allows for 10 dwelling units per acre. So basically it's the same trip generation um reduction for the reasonzoning. Um so therefore uh basically the the proposed future land use designation and reszoning um will result in a lesser trip generation and it won't add any increased traffic. Um but I did want to

note that a traffic impact analysis. Please don't do that.

Thank you. But I did want to note that a traffic impact analysis. So if this was to go if the future land use and the reasonzoning were to be approved, we would go into conceptual plan and that's where you would have a traffic impact analysis which basically studies the roadways, the intersections, turn lanes and would figure out or recommend mitigation or improvements based upon what the project is impacting. So, for example, if the intersection of 512 and Fleming didn't operate acceptably based upon city standard when this is built out, it would be on the developer to do those improvements. Likewise, if there was a roadway capacity improvement. Um, that's all I have for my presentation. I don't know if there's anyone else who wants to speak.

So, just to clarify, If this is developed as it's currently uh permitted for use usewise, there will be more traffic than if it's developed as multif family with our project. Correct.

And of course you're not comparing the traffic of our project to just empty fields. Correct. Okay. Just wanted to clarify that because there seemed to be some confusion in the audience about that. So that's what that means. But also when you said if if the traffic goes over some road that's not that now there's no capacity, the developer will have to build that road to capacity so that it will it will meet the standard of the city code. Is that right? Correct. Okay. Okay. Thanks. Good job.

Thank you. Okay. And now I will ask for our staff presentation, please.

Thank you, commissioners. Um, so what I'm what I'm going to be doing is mostly kind of clarifying some of our city codes, our requirements, um, and and kind of laying out exactly what the the applications and what they're requesting. And I do want to regress just a little bit to simplify because there are so many people here. Um what when we say land use or PUD zoning or some of what that's kind of laying out uh the the property right now is already been zoned PUDC. It has a land use of commercial general. And so I want to explain that the the land use and the vision for how the city would be developed is in our comprehensive plan. Uh it's a it's called a future land use map. And the state requires all communities, all counties, u municipalities to put together a future land use map that goes up to the state and they and every time we change it, they have to review it to see if it's uh in compliance with our overall comprehensive plan. So every every piece of property in Sebastian has a land use. It also is required to have a zoning district. Uh you can have a land use of say medium density residential, but we may have three or four different zoning districts that can use that land use. A good example is um along our commercial corridor river everything east of the railroad track has a land use of Rick uh riverfront mixed use but it has four or five different zoning districts commercial riverfront uh commercial waterfront residential RM8 it can have different zoning districts. So that's what what we're doing tonight is the um the the current the zoning district requirements for a zoning district PUDC and what PUD mean is plan unit development. It's not it's not straight zoning. Um what's in the Highlands is a straight zoning called RS10. It sets very specific setbacks, lot sizes. They have to be a minimum of 10,000 square feet, 10 foot side setbacks, 25 foot setbacks in the front. Those are straight district, what we call straight district zoning district requirements. A planned unit development, a PUB zoning

district planned unit development. um our code lays out that says, "Hey, you can and it requires a minimum square uh minimum acreage at least a minimum of 25 acres. Usually our PUDs are bigger. This is a commercial at 58, but a lot of our residential PUDs are over 100 acres. And because you you're developing a large piece of property, it says you can have we you can have some flexibility with those lot sizes and those setbacks depending on what you want to build there. But in exchange for that, we would like some additional public benefits. um some public amenities. There's always a minimum of recreation that they have to do, but by providing some additional public benefits, it can be more recreation. It could be maybe some public infrastructure. Um in consideration for that, the city will consider your planned unit development. So, in about 1987, uh the original owner of all this 58 acres came in and said, "I'd like to do a commercial PUD." And he wanted a little flexibility. Um I do want to say that it appears that there's no amenities now, but when that when his project got approved, his amenities were is that um he did have to he constructed the uh the commercial PUB did construct Fleming Street. Um Fleming Street only was to the north through the Highlands. So that extension of Fleming Street was one of his public benefits. He brought water and sewer into that area and of course he did a master storm water. Um it a little bit different than residential. It was a commercial PUD. It started off as 58 acres and over the years some of those lots have been um have been developed. Our code states that in a commercial PUD you can have up to 25% can be residential. Now the original and I'll backtrack a little bit. The the difference for getting a PUD zoning is there is an extra step because it's usually a larger area. We say we would like to see a conceptual plan first. If you're going to request this PUD zoning, we're also going to prove it along with your your visual for the property, a conceptual plan. It's an extra step because straight zoning goes

right to your platting to a preliminary plan. So, I want to point out that what's being proposed tonight is a the conceptual development plan. This is not the final plan. There are some designs that in there. There are some uh dead-end streets that we need to work with the developer on on in one of the areas. This is the conceptual plan. It'll still be worked on and tweaked. And then there we get to the preliminary plan. So when the uh when the developer came in with his conceptual plan, he did have a lot more industrial in there um and commercial. In 2004, uh they had an opportunity to possibly build some residential and he came in and asked us to change the conceptual plan to add into that 25% uh um residential that you can have in a commercial PUD. If you kind of look and remember on that first slide, the 14 and a it comes to 14 and a half acres of the total 58 acres that we're we're dealing with. um that 14 and a half acres included that 8 acre or 7.25 acre storm water tract. So realistically, you're not going to put town houses in that in that stormwater area. It would have been moved over a little bit. And in 2009, there was a site plan that went before council and planning and zoning commission and council approved for 100 I think it was about 110 um town houses. they were just going to be on the one side of the street. But um so that was so what they're doing is so coming in tonight is not necessarily going well you can only have 25%. It looks like they want more. So they're trying to get around to the code. Um what they are doing is they have presented applications just like we had other areas in our uh in Sebastian within the last couple of years. We had um the the Hawks Landing project. That property was zoned RS10. They can't build townouses there. there was a developer said I', you know, I'd like to try and build town houses there. And he went through the application process to say, "Hey, will you reconsider the land use and zoning of this?" That was approved. Um, you made recommendation to city council and city council approved that and then they came through. It was not a PUD. It was straight zoning RM10. So, they didn't have to do the conceptual plan, but again, that pro that went through the

process. So, what this is tonight is asking you to also consider their request through their applications, not to get around the code, but they have decided that they do not want to necessarily do um all of the PUDC. They would like you to uh consider a new land use for the remaining 28 acres that are not developed, excuse me, 29.45 acres. They would like you to consider a new land use of medium density residential instead of the current commercial general. and they would like you to then pos uh they would like they're requesting a PUDR reszoning which then requires the conceptual plan. So the first the first thing that you have to think about is your first decision and the first item on the agenda is um do you want to reduce the current commercial PUD down to from 58 acres down to 28.23 acres 27.23 acres. Um similarly Mr. Butanic gave you some some tables from our comprehensive plan and I do have just a couple more to add to that um to put it in perspective and I'm going to see if they can put the comp plan tables on a couple of tables. There we go. Um so this also came from our comprehensive plan and as you can see there are you see on the left hand side very low density residential, low density mobile homes, medium density. Um all the way on the right you can see of our future land use map 14% 40% 2% and 3% are residential. Um let me see if I can get there we go. Um so you can see well close to 55% of Sebastian is is already residential as you go down that table and you can see the commercial general 2.6% 6% commercial 512 commercial limited probably under 5% of our land use area is commercial. Um that's a very

small percentage to uh support almost 55% residential acreage. Um and then I thought it was very interesting um and it it maybe feel good if you go down all the way to the bottom that institutional is 16 um that's city-owned property and conservation is 14. to almost 30% of our land uses in the city is already towards open space and and uh and conservation. But um that is kind of one of the that's going to be your weighing on the that first request because uh Mr. Patunic pointed out that we also are short on our multif family. We have a lot of single family areas but we're very low on our multif family which is what they're proposing. What our charts also show um and then also this one too. This is on the vacant parcels what's left. um we're very also behind on our commercial. So that's kind of your decision tonight to outweigh is do we do we feel that we still need commercial properties to support how heavy we are with single family but then we're not offering a very good variety which our comp plan also requires on our multif family um besides our single family home homes and larger lots. So that's kind of the dilemma on what you need to think about. I do want to point out the they did show the RV uh plan that the special use uh permission and permit is still in place. Um but the RV resort would is not considered residential. That is considered commercial. So they they didn't need to change the com the conceptual plan or change the zoning for to get that RV and that RV resort and we would consider that commercial. It would be remaining a commercial use on that. So that's kind of your first decision is if you wish to reduce the commercial PUB down to the 27. Those are the the lots that are already built. All of those commercial sites are built to code. So if you reduce it and change that conceptual plan down to the reduction, um all of those properties, it'll be in compliance and we've got that commercial PUD. Now, you consider their request to change the remaining 29 acres to a medium density uh medium density

residential land use and and to the PUDR. Um what I'd like to just quickly go over because I know there's been a lot of talking um and discussion on things, but if we if you decide to um to consider the the residential the PUD zoning request, there is a staff report that kind of went over the land juice request. to the medium density residential. Um, we do um let me see if I can get to that. Uh, based on what the consideration was on, um, I apologize. Um based on some of the policies in our comprehensive plan, um the medium density designation is intended to encourage and enhance livability in the city through the provision of a diverse mix of housing stock that is attainable, well integrated with the city's mobility network, and in close proximity and access accessible to services, public and private, neighborhood and community amenities and employment centers. Due to the nature of development with this designation, multimodal connectivity is encouraged. The density of uses within this designation should be sensible sensitive to adjacent neighborhoods to ensure appropriate transitions, buffers, and compatibility. So based on what we've reviewed, if you do determine to make a recommendation to the city council to medium density residential staff has um determined that this would meet our comprehensive plan through the conceptual plan. Now again, this is just conceptual and they showed a lot of landscaping, but we have not done the um the review of a detail that we would do with a preliminary plan. There are specific details of exactly how many trees every 20 feet, what type of opic buffer, but we would make sure that all of that transitional and sensitivity to the neighborhood uh to the adjacent neighborhoods would have to be met. And again, you would see this when that application is presented to you. But in more details um is the actual uh conceptual plan itself. We have we've offered you a staff report. Um I know that they also had a staff a summary report in the information that

we gave you. That is all of the information that's required in our code. They they did need to let you know about uh transportation. They had provided that uh that they had the water and sew sewer capacity is there. Um the we had them this was not um with regards to traffic and the numbers that Mr. Memorine gave to you. Again, this was just a uh an initial type of study and the trips that it would what would be um what would be proposed trips if you went to residential, if you kept it commercial. But in by no means that is the full traffic impact analysis. uh if this was to go get approved recommended favorably and then approved by city council when they're working on the preliminary plan that would again come before you that is months of traffic uh investigation they are at that point looking at all of the intersections at 66 on US1 on 512 uh you know 510 and Barber Street all those intersections based on traffic and if it can meet the the level of service that's required in both our comp plan and this and the county because remember these are county roads too and again if there is any type of turn lanes or any type of improvement that would be needed. Uh you get to determine that, but it also would be uh required by the developer to fix that. Um but uh right now 510 512 does have a level of service that is adequate. Um and this based on our comp plan requires it to be close to that multimodal. It is close to an area with uh with a road and sidewalks. Um staff has also though gone through the plan and I did want to kind of just go over a few things that we did um note on the plan that we will have to work on. um or if this goes forward um Mr. Hower did did kind of show you a chart that if they are going to propose lenai on those or offer lenai on the models uh there was some cons consideration with the far the floor area ratio and the open space um and as such in consideration council can because again with the pud there's a little flexibility on design uh we're looking for some additional public

benefits and we were we would require a sidewalk on wave street but also we would like to um require them to extend the sewer line down South Fleming Street to the the Collier Creek um estates subdivision. That would allow possibly at a future date that subdivision to hook into sewer to get off of the septic tanks and definitely the Harbor Point uh subdivision would be the opportunity working with Indian River County Utilities to to get off septic tanks and hook into that. Um, also we noticed that the lots along the southern side. Um, there is um the proposed lots encroach into a 40ft drainage easement. Um, which as long as we can get the okay from St. John's, uh, we would like to make sure that they're okay with those encroachments of lot. It doesn't necessarily mean that there's going to be a building into that that drainage easement, but the the property that's going to be conveyed. Um, so I I'm leading to some of this because I'd like to go over to the the conditions of approval if you uh have a favorable recommendation to council. Um, I think that uh with similar to our Treasure Bay PUD that you recently reviewed, any of the public amenities will be dedicated to the public, but the HOA will maintain those uh along with the trees along Fleming Street and any irrigation system to keep those and benches. Uh, it's a public rightway, but we would require the HOA to maintain those. So there's no additional cost to the city and uh the site plans within those uh um areas we just require uh separate site plans. So again if planning and zoning after you make that decision of whether to reduce the commercial PUD or not um if you decide to reduce it and are going to consider these other applications staff um has some recommended conditions of approval um that you would forward on to city council. We have 13 of them. Um, I don't know if we can go into questions if you want me to discuss each one of those 13, but at this point I just wanted to let you know that we did have some conditions of approval regarding St. John's uh being okay with the

easement public recommend uh amenities being dedicated to the to the city. Um, uh, the town houses themselves were we were requesting a non- monotonous color scheme so they're not all the same color. Uh, school concurrency. Um, the environmental report, I can put that as part of the record. It is uh with the packet that you have. Um the environmentalist did there's definitely gopher tortoises on the property. Um it's in a it's within a reasonable uh distance from a scrub j area. Um he noted some uh protected uh snakes on there. So that if we does if this does move forward to your preliminary plan, they will definitely have to do some more detailed um studies on all of those. And they would not be able to clear that until all of these environmental studies and tortoises relocated. uh there may be a certain time when they can't clear if it is within a scrub day. So we we've mentioned that in in our um our conditions of approval. Um that's the gist of what we have in our conditions. So, uh, again, so we're going to your decision after you hear the public speak and your deliberate deliberation is your first motion is to determine if you want to reduce the commercial PUB, if you want to eliminate some commercial uh, and not a lot because they can still do it turns out to be about 10 to 13 acres of commercial if they still went with forward with some town houses on this property. It just wouldn't be as many as as the 291 that they're proposing tonight. Um, but there still would be about 10 to 15 acres of commercial available if you feel that that is more important. Um, or to to get up to date with our our um minus of multif family acreages that we have. If you decide to not reduce the commercial, you would still need to do uh motions to deny recommend denial of the other applications. If you decide to reduce the commercial, then you would make motions and and consideration of the land use request and the resoning request and approval of the conceptual

plan.

Okay. Thank you. Okay. Next issue is public input because we have a lot of people who might like to address this here and we're going to give you three minutes each. I would suggest to make as much um as many people able to speak at once as if you kind of form a line at the back and just come up and do your three minutes and and exercise through. And again, please remember we're going to hold the applause. We're not going to do any booing. We're going to be kind and pleasant to each other. And uh I'm looking forward to hearing from you. So, and do say your name clearly and spell the last name so that we can record it properly. Please come.

Hi, thank you. Good evening. I'm Gina Garcia. I live here at 266 Zane. Um, we're currently, as they noted, our our our residential areas are R4. So, you get about four units per acre. Excuse me. Oh, sorry. Thank you. There. Great.

So, so yes, we are in a residential area and this is a density that is 2.7 times what we currently have in that whole area. It is it is it is horrific. The traffic in some of these other options is not daily and it's not seasonal. Okay, this is daily. What they're intending is going to put an a a big change in our lifestyles here. So, this is the reason we moved here. We wanted the residential areas to remain at R4 at the max and and and well, you got Cyber there, which is even less. So, we ask you to please deny it and don't change it from what it currently is. We thought that this would be a good plan when we set it up in ' 87 and 2004. We don't need it. I'm sorry. When you come up here and present all these things, they're stipulations. You said it yourself. You're You think this is what it's going to happen. It's not. We've all lived and that's why we're living here now because we're avoiding that. So, please keep it the way it is and keep it with the current um zoning that you have. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Yeah. No, just hold it. No, no, please don't do that. It takes too much time for that. Thank you. Can you hear me? Yeah. My name is Rebecca Haymon. I came to look to move to this area and would you spell your last name? I'm sorry. H E Y M A N. Thank you.

Thank you. And what I loved about this area is it's the small town feel. I've listened to these gentlemen and they've said things that are contradictory. One is that employers can't find employees and the other from um the staff is that commercial is not being utilized. those are at odds with each other. Uh this community is a small town feel. Everyone here enjoys that. Uh the traffic on 512 at times is hellacious. We all know that. And we looked at the picture that actually looks like a football field when they show you these 200 and some town homes. Each of those town homes, let's assume they have two cars each. How are we going to get in and out and around on 512 with another 400 cars?

I It's just And then we're not even talking about evacuation. God forbid there's some reason we all have to evacuate. Look at all those other cars trying to get to 95 and our personal safety. We have a lot of parks. Um there's one right behind here, a basketball park right here. I I for one am willing to give up another basketball court or another canoe launch for the safety and the availability to get in and out of our homes. So, I would encourage that it be denied. Um, let them build commercial and then build some houses. They can already build some. Let them build houses though. These town homes that are everybody squished together. It doesn't meet the small town feel of Sebastian. Thank you.

Thank you. Katherine Rondo, R O N D AU. I'm concerned no one has mentioned the impact on the police, the fire, the schools. No one's mentioned if our current septic system in this whole city, our water could hold another 290 compact issues. No one has mentioned if this townhouse is in compliance with the new uh Indian River County law that got passed last week that any unit has to be able to accommodate their individual person living in there if they make special handicapped requirements. I don't know how they could do that with uh 297 if 30 people said. No one's mentioning this, but I'm I'm kind of curious. I'm suspecting this is subsidized housing and if we lose our tax base and not have to pay property taxes and the municipality is going to charge the citizens for police, fire, water, etc. if this is partially subsidized housing, will the taxpayers then have to provide for the rent for these homes, the food, the medical and the care? And as far as businesses, right now we only have 61.7% of our people employed in this town are employed by private companies. The m most of our businesses are health related and we have some retail and trade. We don't have commercial. We have nothing to support these people. We need commercial and not people because there's no place for the people to work. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Elizabethwanstrom. Q U A N S T R O M as in Mary. Thank you.

I live on the property known as 801 George Street, lot 10 Sebastian Highlands. The canal structure on that southern border of the proposed development is insufficient. The city, Mr. Plord, Mr. Patnode have rebuilt our side of the burm five times. because it erodess and slips into the storm water. It's not an ideal condition for the single family homes on that border. What will that border be if we have at least two 10 unitit structures on that southern border? That's one of my concerns. and the concern of my neighbors at 797. What will the barrier type be? They talked about naturalized barriers, but will it be a wooden fence, chainlink fence, block wall, and will they even consider walling the storm water canal? The other issue in this area, the developers have proposed that they will put in sidewalks and develop them down to George Street along Wave Street, put in benches and trees and make it all very nice. However, it is a public safety issue every day when the parents come to bring their children to school and pick them up.

No safety vehicle, an ambulance or fire truck from the time of about 2:30 p.m. to about 3:30 p.m. can make the journey to George Street to go for a fire or a rescue or anything. And in normal conditions, it took 25 minutes two months ago for the ambulance to come when a woman was struck by a bicycle. There's a significant public safety issue of traffic in this area that does not seem to be considered in the study that they have done.

10 more seconds. Yeah. The other thing they spoke about ambient lighting, but we also want to know what kind of traffic controls will be implemented when people travel at 60. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay. Um, let's try this. Everybody applaud. Okay. Now we're done with it. Okay, we're done with it now. Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Nicole Angler. E N G L E T. I am here as the mother of a student at Sebastian Charter Junior High. Other than aerial photos showing current conditions, there were no sketches, diagrams illustrating what this development is going to look like as it completely surrounds the school. I heard concerns about protecting neighboring communities. I heard nothing about protecting the school. Under this plan, the school would sit right in the middle of this dense residential complex, bordered on multiple sides by multi-story town homes with a community pool and clubhouse directly beside the school's parking lot. I understand growth is coming and housing is needed, but growth should never come at the expense of student safety. This project would place hundreds of new residents directly against a middle school campus. Upper floor units would overlook school grounds all day as students arrive, move between classes, and leave. That level of density fundamentally changes our school's security. More people, more vehicles, and more risk. Traffic is already a serious problem, as we've heard. Families line Fleming Street every afternoon to uh keep nearby neighborhoods from getting gridlocked. Adding hundreds of residents entering and exiting at dismissal time will eliminate that buffer and worsen congestion that we already struggle to control. Most of our students walk or bike to school. This plan forces them to cross multiple new multiple new driveways and parking entrances during peak traffic hours. This is not hypothetical. It's a predictable daily occurrence that will happen and will be a safety hazard. Schools need space, visibility, and controlled access. This development does the exact opposite. We are not opposed to growth, but we are asking that the growth be planned responsibly with children's safety first. Once built, these impacts cannot be undone. Density

cannot be reduced. Traffic cannot be reversed, and the risks cannot be erased. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, sir. I have three minutes. Raymond Holtz Connect. H O L Z K N E C H T. I'm sorry.

Three minutes. Raymond Holtz Connect. H O L Z K N E C H T. I'm a resident of Sebastian for 30 years. Sebastian is a friendly community with six six grouches. Am I correct? It's a home of Pelican Island. The thing with the thing with Sebastian was very unique to me. I moved from down south Broward Avenue. The thing that was very unique to me as you get off 95, it's opposite of every other town. It's an old fishing town. The development starts down by the river and works back west. Okay. When I first came here, I'm like, what's going on here? There's no street lights. There's no nothing. Okay. It's all started down there. So, what we do now, we've we've developed, but we won't talk about the other developments that are coming in. We're not going to talk about the Spirit of Sebastian, which is five 600 homes. We're not going to talk about the the new development that's coming in off of Schuman, off Admiral Circle, which is 162 development homes. We're talking about this one here. Okay? And this one is dealing with 292. There's also uh 510. There's a development that has been bellied up uh by the high school by dead man's turn at 510 that's going to house about 300 homes. The thing is schools since I've been here the high school has been built. Okay. Then the charter school over by uh the the the developing chess Chester Park over there. Okay. So we're we're we're looking at no schools for these children. They promote families are coming in. The average family has two adults, two kids. Some have more than two kids, some have only one. The thing is, each one of these kids have to go to school. They're loading up. They're making magnet schools. Uh elementary schools are going from uh fifth uh kindergarten to fifth grade. And then now they're putting them into sixth, seventh, and eighth because there

are no schools. My granddaughters are lucky to go to a charter school. The thing is Fleming and then 512. It's going to get so jammed up with with with with this new development here. Okay. And then like I said, this the sewage the sewage for every for every the average house has four people in it. Okay. The average person flushes the toilet minimum four times a day. Okay. So we're we're looking we're looking at the average family has two cars. Okay. So all these different developments we're looking at a number of two cars for for for for a household. And we're we're we're also looking at all all all the different things of every everything just getting overloaded and the sewer system. They're telling us that we have to get different sewer systems in our home. I'm in my home 20 years. New roof now. I got to get a sewer system. This composite. Anyway, uh growth is good. I'm I'm all for it. But the thing is we have to do it in order. And we we we have to get the schools. We we definitely have to get the schools for the kids. Strike zone should have been taken over by Sebastian

for for some kind. Thank you. Thank you for some kind of things for the Thank you.

Hello. My name is Tom Satler. S A T L E A R. I'm a new resident of Sebastian. Uh got a little bit of anecdotal comments to make, but I moved here with my family uh a little over a year ago. longtime Florida resident since the 60s. I came up from Jupiter, grew up in Jupiter. Part of the reason I chose, we chose Sebastian was because of the small town feel and the fishing village, you know, nature of it, which is what Jupiter was like 30 years ago. Anybody who's familiar with the northern part of Palm Beach County will understand how dense it's become and the problems that have ensued since then. That's why we're here. So, let me if I could ask quick, show of hands of people on staff, who lives on Fleming Street? Anybody? You do, sir. Okay. Anybody here? Are the developers? Uh, anybody live on Fleming Street? Okay. I do. All right. And today I did a little research. I started at my house and I drove all the way to Main Street. From Main Street up to US1. Okay. And then I drove back again from US1 along Main Street, then along Fleming to 512, and then back along Fleming again back to my house. And I counted 152 homes that border Fleming Street. Right. This proposal of 291 or 294 town houses is almost twice the density of what's already along that part of Fleming. Right? If we make the assumption of two two cars per per household, which is reasonable, I think uh and the density again of 294 town homes, you know, over 600 or nearly 600 cars that are being added to the 200 cars uh or sorry, 300 cars that are in that particular area of plumbing now. So, you're looking at

actually not adding, you're adding twice what's there now. So, it's three times the the car density of traffic. And I think that's unacceptable. If if we knew then when we bought our house in November, a year ago, what the what the traffic density was like in Fleming Street, we would not have bought that house. It's already that busy and that noisy. This is only going to make it that much worse. And last quick show of hands. Who here in the community is interested in the benefits of another basketball court? anybody?

I didn't think so. So, I think it's terrific that they're creating lower cost housing. A townhouse is fine, 294,000 or whatever the price point was, but not in that location. I think it should be further west on 512, closer to 95 perhaps because there's a lot of undeveloped land there. I would suspect or or suggest that maybe they purchased that property in error. That's my last thought. Thank you.

Name is Alvin Pasqual.

Also, P A S QU A L E also a new resident up this area. Moved up here from Martin County. It's now a disaster area. This is Martin County 25 or 30 years ago. I've listened to developers try to develop down there for the last 40 years. I shudder every time I have to go down there for some sort of business. Secondly, every planning council meeting that I have attended and I've been to a few say people want single family houses, not multifamily housing. Multifamily housing brings multiple problems. We need more industrial land for more business so people here do not have to drive to Vero Beach to work. Go try US1 in the morning if you think I'm kidding. They're all headed south to work. We don't need development. We don't need multif family. We need more single family. More people here that are more responsible. Less problems. less jokes, less fooling around, less police, less fire, less everything. If you approve this, I guarantee it. You will have to raise taxes to everybody that lives in this city to pay for the problems that multifamily living bring in. And if you don't believe me, ask the county south of here. You'll find out what I'm saying. What I'm asking you right now is do not approve this change in zoning for any reason. Period.

Thank you.

Mark Newman, NEWAN. My first point is, Miss Bosworth, you said 20 times that we're going to have a vote. Are we going to really vote on this or has this board already made this decision?

You referred to 20 times at least and I'm sure people heard you. Next, by the facility being built 25 ft in height, everyone in the area is going to see these structures. This will be unsightly and reduce the valuation of our properties. Okay. Second, in reality, by building lowcost housing, won't you be bringing in more people than there are jobs in the Sebastian area, resulting in possible more crime because they won't have a job? Sir, you have to speak into the microphone at all times. I'm sure everyone heard me.

He has to address the commission. He has to address the commission. I'll here's a real question you're not going to like. Has this board already made its decision and signed or given their word to these people that you're going to build this? My last thing, by building this, you could be bringing in people that if this is lowcost housing, right behind where all these homes are as access to our homes and the crime rate could go up. That's what I have to say. Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Good job. Hello. Uh, my name is James Elfford. E L F O R D. Um, well, basically in my mind, we have three issues that we're all kind of wrestling with. Uh, we're dealing with traffic, safety, and value, right? And all these points have already been brought up, so I won't dig into them each, but um, well, one of them I will. Safety is really one of my main concerns. We have children like one of the other women were saying uh that will be surrounded by this entire community of housing and they have to get to and from their vehicles you know or whatever transport they have. Uh along with that there are some groups that actually run up and down Fleming after after school. Um some of them walk home. So that's a big safety concern. One of my uh personally one of my problems is I do run the area quite often, usually every morning. And there's been numerous times over the last 13 years I've lived here um on countless times that I've nearly been hit by cars, right? And help three times, excuse me, I'm sorry, three times were by police officers alone trying to get through the area. So it does happen and it's just kind of unsafe. So in short, basically I'd propose two ideas um for this developer. Number one, um since this was bought back in whatever ' 87 you said or uh the zoning was at um I'm assuming they got it at a fairly good rate compared to today's. They could turn it into a park, right, and just wipe this whole idea out. Or if they wanted to reszone it, right? Or

they could put up gates around all these people's homes homes in Kolar Creek, right? So we could put up automatic gates to where that influx of some 600 vehicles taking that shortcut to Vero Beach every single day back and forth doesn't clog up our streets. I mean, if they have the money to barrier that entire lake that they're talking about um with fences so it so nobody in the public disturbs that housing, they probably have money to put up gates for the three entrances to Kyer Creek. So that's all I have. Thank you.

Then they come down George Street.

Evening board. Uh name's Patrick Powers. P O W E R S. Like many here, I grew up in Broward County high school Boca Raton. Uh spent many years coaching little league in Port St. Lucy. So I consider myself a bit of an expert on urban sprawl. Um the other day I tried to shop at my local Publix out west on 512 since I closed Wind Dixie. That Publix is virtually unshoppable. Felsmere shops there. Everybody shops there. So I started thinking about it. Where are these people going to go for the Publix? They're going to cut through Cer Creek to go over to Barber. They're going to run up to Rosland or they going to come out west. What we're all talking about is infrastructure and planning ahead. What we don't have is enough to satisfy that many new residents. Now, we all know that these town houses are going to become rental properties.

They're going to become rentals. All right? We'll have slum lords renting out rental properties. Soon as the HOA decides that there's a fight at the basketball court, they're going to close it. We're not going to be able to use it. The public will be sealed out anyway. Walking trails, all those things are nice, but we don't have the infrastructure. Maybe this Indian River County water, sewer, electric, maybe they're planning for it. Maybe we do have some of that planning done. But right now, I have to stand in line at Publix for an hour to get a sub because we don't have the ability to support that kind of residents. We have to start with supporting the residents like they did tradition. They screwed that up out there royally, but they built the Publix first. They built the other things first. All those things that support the the residents had to be built first. We have to have the toilets flushing. We have to have the water. We have to have all those things and which we don't have here. I kind of appreciate that cuz I like the feel of this. I like being able to go out to a restaurant and have a seat, not have to make a reservation. We don't even have We have restaurants now. You got to wait an hour, hour and 45 minutes to sit down and have a bite to eat. So, we're talking about adding You're talking about jobs for people. Those people are going to be commuting. We are not Vero. We are not Palm Beach. We are Sebastian. Okay. And we want to stay Sebastian

for as long as we possibly can because we know that that four-lane highway that dead ends on 66 and Schuman is dumping everybody coming north right into this town and we don't have a plan for that. So, we need to start thinking about our infrastructure and how we're going to handle the influx of this many people. Thank you. Thank you. Good job.

Hello, my name is Scott Johnson. Jos N. Uh, I reside at 116 Harbor Point Drive and uh I looked at a map the other day. There are 18 single family homes on Harbor Point Drive. I looked off of Fleming to see what else was there. There's six homes between uh Sebastian Boulevard and Easy Street that reside on Fleming. There's Origa Street which has 19 homes. There's uh Barber Street and Banks Court which has 11 homes. Now, not counting all the homes that are on Easy Street. That's 54 homes. 44 of those homes have pools. Um, a large number of them have at least half an acre, if not larger. I would argue, and I'm a bit biased because I live there, these are some of the nicest single family homes in the area. You would think with only 54 homes driving down Fleming Street, traffic would not be a problem. However, there's a shortcut from Easy Street and Barber that takes all the Vero traffic right down Fleming Street. I want to tell you about a little trip I made to the Home Depot uh just a couple of weeks ago. I left my house and I didn't look at what time it was. My goal was to get to the Home Depot. I turned right on Harbor Point Drive, went up Fleming Street. When I got up to the school, the charter school, I realized right away, oh my gosh, it's pickup time. Normally when it's pickup time, I have to go back to Easy Street and go all the way around uh because I know better. Now the cars are all lined up picking up students. They park on the south end of Fleming and there is only one lane of traffic available when that happens. So I was committed. I said, "I'm going to do this." I started going down. And I had

the right of way and out of nowhere the school bus came down my path and came directly at me. I had to stop. There was nowhere for me to go. There was nowhere for the school bus to go. So it was a game of chicken. And I realized the school bus is not going to back up. So I have to back up. By this time there were three cars behind me. They were beeping their horn at me. I got my hands up in the air. What can I do? I get out of my car and I have to walk back and tell them they have to back up because the school bus is not going to get out of the way. So now I'm directing traffic. I've got people going behind. We're testing our reverse skills and I back out of there and allow the school bus to come in on the wrong side of the road and make its way up to the charter school. I could tell you more about what happened when I got up to uh Sebastian Boulevard. Um because there's two lanes when you get to that stoplight. One is the left turn only lane. The other is you go straight or you turn right.

Oh, we're not going to hear the end of the story. I appreciate the time. You get my point.

Finish your story quick. Well, I wanted to get to the Home Depot, right? So, now I'm frustrated. I let the school bus go in. I'm going to turn right, but I'm behind a car. I got my right turn signal on, which by the way is unusual to have a turn signal on. And the car in front of me decides they're going to go straight. And they see I have a turn signal on. So, what do they do? They try to be polite with the red light. They pull forward. Well, the person couldn't get by. They went in front of this car. The car didn't see them because they were worried about me. So, they pulled up even more. The bike guy got all pissed off. I have a truck. I don't have enough room to turn right. The traffic coming up Sebastian Boulevard was now having to get into the left lane because this vehicle was in their right lane. Anyway, when I got to Home Depot, I got my parts and I was back home and got my my stuff fixed. So, but that's a perfect example of what we deal with on a daily basis without 291 homes. And as long as you've given me more time, I want to say,

whoa, no abuses. Nice try. I looked in the uh dictionary today at the definition of overdevelopment and I quote, "Overdevelopment is the excessive construction that leads to overcrowding, traffic congestion, and a strain on the local resources." I just want to say that 291 town homes in is an overwhelming addition. It's going to change the character of our neighborhood. It's going to change the traffic congestion and it will put a strain on all of the local resources. Thank you. Thank you.

Hello, Laura Fuller. Can you guys hear me? Okay. F U L L E R. Thank you.

Okay. Uh I just kind of want to ditto what everybody I think is almost all of us here are on the same page. Um, we do hope and pray that you have not already made your decision because I kind of feel like that's why we're here. Um, so I also moved from South Florida 15 years ago. This is the most magical place I have found. And I almost cry when I see all the development that's coming up and it freaks me out because I grew up in South Florida. I grew up with horses. I grew up with not what it is now. And it scares the heck out of me because I kind of feel like I see the writing on the wall. And um we just wish you guys would leave us alone. Just go build somewhere else and let us have our beautiful Sebastian. It's It's so beautiful. I I I can't describe how scared I am that it's going to change. And it is changing. It is changing. And it's like I know we all have to make a living. Can Can you go make your money somewhere else, please? cuz we love Sebastian and I really we all want it to stay very special. It's very rare that you have special places in this world anymore because it always just gets developed. And I grew up with it. I saw it and I see the writing on the wall now. And we just want to beg you guys to please consider trying to keep this the way it is. Thank you. That's all I can say.

Thank you. Hi, my name is Jill Cherry. C H E R R Y. I live at 113 Harbor Point Drive. This is right in my backyard. I'm a recent widow. I've lived in this home for 26 years. I agree with all my fellow neighbors out here that this is not the right fit for this town or for that place. I have I have a severely disabled child. He his suite room is in the back of the house. He has a heightened sense of hearing because of his disability. I am concerned with all the other concerns that people have raised. I am concerned for my son's health and well-being because he likes it quiet. And our t our street, Harvard Point Drive, all of the neighbors, we are quiet. We don't party all the time. We don't play loud music. We don't do any of that. This is not the right fit. and I'm concerned for my son. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Teresa Benton Court and that is spelled B E T A N C O U R T. I agree 100% with my neighbors, but let me start a little bit at the beginning. I hated Sebastian when I came here eight years ago. It was a fishing town. It was slow. Everybody said good morning and ma'am and thank you. But I came here with a veteran who was severely disabled by PTSD and riddled with anxiety from New York City and the war. And 10 years later, my husband is comfortable. I have no alarm system. And by the way, I live at 103 Harbor Point Drive. They will really be in my backyard and that yacht or that that kayak thing that will be along that water. I have no restrictions to keep my clothes on in the morning. I own the piece of property. I own the piece of property as everyone will know the name. I own the piece of property that was developed by Mr. King. My property goes back further than the canal. Further than anybody else. I believe it was three years ago they came to clean the cat and Ninetales. Thank you. My lemon tree and my grapefruit tree are dead. When I tried to find out then who owned that property, I couldn't find out anything. The catin tales now are back. Speaking of the Wave Street Charter School, we wait patiently for those children. 9 years ago, my husband was going to lose his mind. And now he waits for every single mother and father

to pick up their kids and only proceeds forward when it is safe. Those children will not be safe. Nevertheless, nobody has spoke about the homeless high school population we have. They will not be safe. There will be many grown-ups walking around and not all of them honest. Not all of them good. So now I live in Sebastian almost nine years and I love it here. I have a home. I feel safe. I have made friends, good friends. And I call it the only fishing village that's left. My son lives in Jupiter, the gentleman was speaking of, and he recently made a comment, you know, I think it's time for me to go. I'm going to tell him not to come here with his children because he's not going to be able to deal with that congestion. Also, another veteran. We have a lot of veterans in this area that suffer from PTSD and will not be able to work within the means of that. So then the police will be necessary. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

You broke it. Uhoh. Oh, wait a minute. Fix my time. Start it back on three, please, because I'm exactly three minutes. We We I don't think we can back it up, but we'll give you the extra. Okay. Thank you. Okay.

Dale Simche, 766 Southeast Street. S I M C H I C. I served on city council and I was their metropolitan planning rep for roads and transportation planning and served on this PNZ board as a school board member rep. I will be quoting your facts because you can't make the decision on feelings. You have to make it on facts. So I will be quoting directly from your packet from both staff and developers applications. agenda packet on page 8 per memorandum to PNZ first paragraph and I quote is to consider major development mod modifications to the ex existing pud. You're welcome to confirm with staff that we lack in the meeting in in uh meeting our future 2040 commercial development and by granting this reduction of the original pud to 28.27 27 acres. You will be negatively affecting the 2040 plum for commercial commercial development staff quoted tonight. You are behind on commercial 20 for 2040. Agenda page 31 under city staff report item number eight. comprehensive plan consistency under level of service traffic. And I quote, "The proposed residential development does still create an increased demand on the exiting roadway network and traffic impacts to neighboring roadways and intersections. It also states the conceptual plan proposes four primary access points from South Fleming Street and with one additional emergency. This increased flow emptying onto Fleming will create dangerous traffic issues for the school that the pud basically enclaves uh especially during school dropoff as heard after school release and many pedestrian students roaming the commercial area. Very dangerous. Agenda page 126. The Kimberly Horn prepared traffic statement or analysis. It's not an analysis. It's it's not a study. It's just a statement paid and prepared for by the developer. I will disagree with the daily trip estimated of 1960 of

proposed trips since we are only using formulas and not a study. The county MO traditionally uses 10 trips per day making it realistically 2,910 trips on the road. However, with the added AM trips, not to mention increased in in and out of driveways usage from Amazon UPS waste management, you can concur with your city staff on comments on page 31 that most of it will affect our children and safety. Page 88 in your agenda citing the environmental impact report paid for and prepared by the developer from FEC consultants. Executive summary, last bullet point, although they are all not good. Land development improvements may cause adverse environmental impacts to native trees and protected species in your packet. The PUD has existing um building rights that you are not required to change or amend. You are not denying this developer any building rights that he has. He is asking you to change the original PUD to give him more rights to build. And as the application and plan submitted stands, you can must and have a duty to deny the request to modify the conceptual PUD that exists. The new land use, please deny it. Written. I have quoted factually your packets, not my feelings.

Times up, Dale. Staff has to reveal, but you get to decide.

You all having fun yet? No smile. Oh, a couple smiles. Waiting for you. Uh, first the first thing I like to say is I'm I'm from up north. Don't get mad at me. Um, sir, please. My name is Tom Fleell. I live in Sebastian. You'll like this. F is in Frank. L E I S H E L L. We have never guessed. I bet.

Thank you. Um, I'd just like to say I'm since a young I've been coming down here for my grandparents, Sarasota and Braon, Destala, everything. And when my wife and me moved down here, we uh looked everywhere all over the state and our real estate agent said, "I know what you want where you want to live. It's called the Mayberry of Florida and that's Sebastian. And um I'd like to know also um I was raised on a farm up north, 150 acres. Now it's shopping centers and homes and I would like to know where these suits live and where their bosses live. I would like to know where they live. Um because something tells me they don't live in Sebastian. Um I just think that everybody in this room, it sounds like I would say a lot of them are very very scared of what's going to happen. Uh all I got to say is traffic and then I'll say a couple other words. Melbourne and then I'll say Vero. um ring a bell about traffic um and and safety. Um I don't know, man. I I've been living here seven years and it I've seen it changing, but it it it's not good. and anybody that believes that they're out for the good of your community. Um, I'm not going to say it because y'all get mad at what I would say, but

um, it's it's not good. And again, I'd like to know where they live and where their owners of their companies live. It's not around here. Guarantee you the suits are the problem. Thank you. Thank you.

Hello and thank you for being here and hearing listening to us. My name is Lisa Kumo. C O M E AU. And I just want to point out to everybody on this agenda so that they understand, as you understand, that basically we have a developer that's asking for three different changes to our zoning in order to accommodate their huge project over there off of Fleming. And I'm thinking about all the previous developers that all went by our zoning and had no problem developing here. These developers wish to change our zoning three different times. That's what A, B, and C are. And I understand that we have a um a law, an actual uh city land and development rules that dictate that if they want to change a part of their parcel to residential, they according to our existing rules, they can only do that on 25% of that lot. But what they're proposing, which is one of these changes on your agenda, is to be able to do that over 50% of that is now going to be residential. So my question is also why does this agenda say recommendation to town council? My understanding is that the planning and land use development and the town council represents Sebastian, not the developers. You represent us, right? and you you love our town as much as we do. So, I don't understand why the developer is going to be why you would even consider three different changes to our zoning because basically that what they want to do is change the existing commercial and say, "Oh, we're going to come down in the size of our commercial so that we have this much left of residential to develop." and they wish

to develop 50 over 50% of that not 25% according to our land use and code and everyone here has brought up many many excellent points about why it would not be a good idea and I I disagree with this idea of medium density because anybody who looks at that plan they can see that's not medium density that's not medium density and it's an insult to everyone's intelligence here to call it that this developer if they wish can develop 25% of that lot residential and remain within our land use and code without violating our code. And I just want to remind everybody what happened a few days ago when they closed 95 up by Palm Bay because there were fires and all of that traffic off of 95 spilled off onto 512 and nobody could go anywhere. That was an emergency that happened and it became impossible to navigate around Sebastian which another name for Sebastian is paradise found. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Linda Banks, B A N KS, and I live very close to where they'd be building. It would affect us a lot and already does with the school and everything. But my point is something completely different. Um cuz they were saying that these um condos or town houses are going to cost like what 280 or 300,000 and I just don't like maybe it's just me but I don't understand like I just sold a house in Sebastian and it was a beautiful house and it had three bedrooms, two bathrooms, a screen porch, a beautiful street and we had to put a brand new roof. We had to put a new air conditioner. we had to repaint the whole thing and we only got 325 and there's like 300 houses already for sale. So I'm I don't understand how that really fills a need cuz on top of the price and they have to pay you know the HOA or whatever it is. Anyway, I just don't get it. That's all I was going to say.

Thank you. Hello. Um, my name's Kathy F, uh, FRS. F R I S C H. Did you get that? Um, okay. Uh, well, I was here a year ago, uh, complaining about the traffic on, uh, where we live on Barber, uh, in the Highlands here, and, um, they were very polite listening and, um, nothing. They said they'll put more patrol on there, and they did for about a month, but there's still so much traffic on Barber. I'm on near Felli and um so we're right on the corner there uh on Dempsey and there is just so much traffic on Barbara right now and these people it's it's 30 miles per hour they fly by very few people go nobody goes 30 they get if you're lucky if they they'll go 40 but mo most people are going 45 50 miles an hour and back and forth back and forth all day so uh I like to garden and I'm out there and uh it's nothing but noise traffic. So now you're bringing in 600 or more cars for this this development and because it's two, you know, 300 units approximately times two. So 600 cars now you got them going down Fleming because you come to that intersection at 512 and they're going to go across the Fleming to get to Maine or they're going to cut down Vel or Velli whatever it's called and they're going to go down that two little lane street which has so much traffic already. They're gonna stop at the stop sign on Barber Vel and Barber. And I mean, that's a bad intersection. Anyway, so last time I was here, I said, "Listen,

you need a four-way stop sign there because people just they they just don't even stop on that stop sign." And we've had accidents. Uh I said, "If you can't put a four-way stop in, you need to put a light in." Well, if you're going to add 600 cars, you're going to need a light. You're going to need a traffic light there. And now you're going to destroy the Highlands. You're going to They are going to destroy the Highlands where we live because it's not going to be residential anymore. Yeah. It's going to be nothing but traffic down up and down Fleming uh down Fel to cut over to Rosland because people are not going to go down 512 down to Rosland and then cut up. Okay? They're just not going to. So, they're going to destroy our neighborhood. Uh, what's the point? You know, you you you buy a nice house, you pay your taxes, you do the right thing, you work hard all your life. We're retired, my husband and I. You work hard all your life. And and for what? So, you live in a, you know, an area where that's completely destroyed. We came here for a nice life. We're from up north, too. I'm sure most of these people are at one point or another. So, you know, I have six seconds. That's what I have to say. I say no to the project because you're going to destroy the Highlands.

Thank you. Yes, sir. Mike Ninsgard. O N G A R D. I live at 111 Harbor Point Drive. And I wanted to find out more about this development today. So, I came to visit the planning department agency or the uh community development agency here. We're blessed people. These people are very patient. They're very diligent. They're very dedicated. Sir, I was so impressed by this department. Sir, you have to just address the commission, not the audience.

They'll hear you. They'll hear you if you're speaking into the mic.

I wanted them to. I I think uh the fact that we all have a place in our heart for Sebastian, we all have common interest in our in our city, which really to me is like a village. Uh I thought I was going to come up here and talk a lot about statistics, but I but I really don't think that's the answer here. We had some clearheaded individuals get together and decide on boundaries for development. They worked hard at it. They thought about as many things as they could and they came up with a plan and said this is what we think will work and this is way we think we should restrict it and they had reasons for all those things. Now somebody comes in a steamroller on their way to the bank and they want to take those things and they want to run right over them. Not just one barrier. They paid $1,250 to apply for one barrier drop. No. Then they said, "Well, there's another barrier." So they paid another $1,250 to try to get that barrier applied dropped. And then there was another one and another one. That's just too many requests to change the plan of those clear-minded people that got together and decided what good boundaries are. We all have a shared interest and a place in our heart for Sebastian. We're not on a steamroller to the bank. Please keep these barriers in place. Keep our town the way it is and tell these people thank you, but no thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Hello, Joe Mahalik. It's M I H E L I C. I live at 109 Harbor Point Drive. Mike is my neighbor. We have a great buffer behind us right now. A treelined area canal then a tree lined then the lake they're talking about building around. I think we're going to end up losing that. I think according to the city when we came in the city owns half of that buffer and these people own the other half and they'll be tearing that down. So right away our our values are going to go down. They've dropped. Um one of my other neighbors talked about security. There's a a burm on the far end of the that canal which will connect that land to our street which is a concern. You know my wife and I spent two years looking for a place to move from Jupiter gentleman from Jupiter all the way up to Merit Island. We would go off for weekends and we ended up finding Sebastian which we love. We've been here 11 years. These gentlemen, somebody asked where they're from. The LLC, Sebastian Town Homes Town Houses LLC is in Broward County.

We don't Please don't turn us into Broward County. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Please.

Hello. Um, my name is Jeannie Vega of EGA. Um, I've lived in Sebastian for five and a half years. I moved up from Broward County. I miss Broward County, but when I want it, I go for a visit. I would really like it to stay the way it is, I don't understand the need for the development. I am out and about. I do talk to people. I don't hear people saying there is a need for extra affordable housing in the area. There's plenty going up already. Um, and I'm concerned with um everything else that uh the other speakers were talking about, you know, safety, traffic, um, and no one's mentioned the animals. When I moved here, I was getting a bobcat on the camera out back behind my home monthly. I haven't seen it in a year with all the development that we've had. And I am on um Landown Drive, which if you take that from Wave Street, it turns in, you know, George and George turns into Landown, which is um takes you to Barber. So, I can easily see some of these residents from these 200 plus town homes sneaking through to get over to Cumberland Farms, you know, non-stop down my street as well. So, the last, you know, the woman that was speaking a couple before me saying it's going to mess up the Highlands. I agree. It's going to divert traffic all over, not just that light at Sebastian and Fleming. And so I'm asking you to not to turn it down and thank you. Hear our voices.

Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Rita Richardson. R I C H A R D S O N. I lived in Sebastian for 20 years. And I'm not here to repeat all the bad 101 bad ideas, you know, bad reasons why we should u quash this. I want to propose an alternative. And as I look at the diagram of the housing, you've got 8 to 10 units per block. Why not reduce that to four and build four houses per block? You would you would get half of your almost 300 aotment. You'd get half the cars. You'd get half the traffic. and you might have a a community that doesn't look like a beehive. So, that's all I'm saying. Just reduce the number of houses that are allotted for that project. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello. My name is John Simons. S I M O N. Uh Sebastian resident. Uh public speaking is not my forte. Uh, I don't know. I do want to thank these guys for coming here uh and telling us that traffic is actually going to be less by putting in 290 units. That's that's awesome. Um, have you guys thought about the infrastructure that we need for these kind of people? stores to buy clothes, to buy food, uh, restaurants, gas stations, banks, all that kind of neat stuff. Um, couple of questions. Do we need your guys's permission to put gates in front of Kier Creek on all three of our entrances? would we would we have to get your permission to do that because our traffic is going to quadruple and I' I'd be more than happy to pay for my portion of my uh HOA fees. Is this also the same council that gave us waste management taxes?

No, that was the city council. Was that the city? Yeah. If you don't know, you got to ask. So, uh, that's just kind of stuff. Uh, and how many years is this going to take to to build this when when they do approve it?

Fleming, who's who's going to be able to go up against that traffic against all of these bulldoers and building and uh there's only one basically one lane during school hours for when they get out and go to school. What? What about that? You have that and then you have all this construction going on. How are people going to get around? I guess you can't answer that question. Not my job. That's pretty much all I got to say. Thanks.

It's going to be short and sweet. Vicky Dolan. D O L A N. My parents brought bought their home in Sebast or built their home in Sebastian on Harbor Point on 112 Harbor Point Drive. I bought their house and um it's a lovely neighborhood. But yesterday when I heard about this issue, one of our neighbors came doortodoor with this map and um I was appalled, angry, upset, but um so yesterday I went to the school with the flyers. I made a bunch of sorry made a bunch of copies of the flyers and I didn't want to fight the traffic so I rode my bicycle up and I had to walk it halfway up but I handed out the flyers to the parents that were waiting for their children and were having conversation with them and everybody was appalled and they said what are we going to do? Same thing. I don't want to reiterate everything, but I agree with everything that I'm afraid the crime is going to increase because if it's lowincome housing, if it turns into that, it's it's so anyway, when I when my parents first moved to Florida, I remember coming down here and there was a sign that said um Sebastian, the town of friendly people and one old goat. I And now it says like the town of friendly people and I don't know, 10 old goats. Um, but they moved to Florida because uh my dad called it the hole in the middle of the donut. So there was constructing around and Sebastian still remained nice. That's it.

Thank you. Thank you,

Wanda Simmons. Um, Sim Ms. I all I have to say is no to this, but I would like to have sewer in the Highlands. Is that it? Is that all there is? Okay, Madam Chair, I have one person on Zoom. All right,

go ahead, Amy. Hello. Uh, my name is Amy Mahelik. Uh, my parents live on Harbor Point Drive, directly behind the property, and I've spent extensive time there in Sebastian over the last decade. Amy, excuse me, could you spell your last name, please? Yes, sorry. M I H E L I C H. Thank you.

Yes. Um, changing to residential is acceptable, but the proposed density is not appropriate for this location. This proposal allows 291 townhouse units on roughly 29 acres. Using the BEBR standard of 2.24 people per acre, that adds about 652 new residents, which is roughly 7% of Sebastian's projected population growth over the next 20 years concentrated in one place. This density is not necessary. Existing vacant units and residential land already have the capacity to meet around 165% of Sebastian's projected housing needs. Sebastian is a single family city. 87% of homes are single family detached and that's what fits here. Single family zoning would also benefit Sebastian schools since single family homes generate higher impact fees per unit. And that's why people move here, for that single family small town feel. My greatest concern is traffic safety. 11% of written crash reports occur at Fleming Street and Sebastian Boulevard. Adding another 582 cars, not including delivery vehicles, would push that intersection towards level of service D and E, creating unstable traffic conditions. And that's before accounting for existing congestion from school drop off and pickup at the charter school. Um parking really compounds this issue. Uh these are three-bedroom units with only two parking spaces. Um there's limited guest parking which would be taken up by the residents who do have more than two cars. There's no bike infrastructure and this is a really um highly car dependent area. So this is just a recipe for overflow, blocked access and safety concerns. Uh, finally, there are environmental concerns, including

reported gopher tortoises, bald eagle sightings, and likely protected species, including the scrub jay. While tree preservation is mentioned, the dense site plan doesn't clearly show how or where meaningful preservation would occur. So, I respectfully urge the commission to consider um a lower density residential approach um that better protects safety, infrastructure, schools, and environmental resources and fits in with the existing neighborhood or just deny the whole project outright. Uh thank you for your time. Thank you.

Okay. Um, since that is the end of it, I am hereby closing this hearing and we are going to take our deliberations but I suggest we have a fivem minute break. Okay, five minute break.

Commissioners, let us uh deliberate and we'll start down on this end just Madam Chairman. Yes. Uh based on um I apologize, but based what's on our agenda with regards to the uh steps, uh the next step would be the applicant is allowed up to 10 minutes to kind of respond to some of the concerns. I'm sorry. Staff will summarize and then we'll let you guys jump into your deliberation for sure.

I'll be super brief. I appreciate all the comments. I really do. I appreciate the involvement. I appreciate that you care about your community. I'm from Vero Beach. uh lived in Florida all my life and getting into the land development business as an attorney 20 years ago now almost. I learned real quickly about traffic. Everyone's concerned about traffic. Um but people study it and they've developed it into a science and there are standards in the code. So, just so everybody knows, there are standards for capacity of roadways in Sebastian. If we do when we do a study, if it turns out that we're going to trip over the allowable capacity, which is set by the city, we will have to build improvements. So, hopefully that's that can be understood. It's not going to be a free green space. I get the feeling that it doesn't really matter what we bring to develop at some there's going to be people that don't want it to change. It's hard to understand, but it can't be a free piece of green space. We live in America. We have private property rights and those private property rights are circumscribed by reasonable regulations that we put in black and white. not I'm guessing that there's going to be traffic so that we so keep in mind that there's another side of the coin which is that uh there's a piece of property that is privately owned and it's not right for the community to lean on that person whoever owns it at the time to say I just want it to stay a green space for you know because it's nicer that way and but but I totally understand if I'm a if I'm a resident living near there I would want it to stay green too Um, so that's that's part of the part of the

conflict. These are not going to be subsidized. Okay? These are attainable. These are not lowincome. Um, and this really is the start of an of the American dream for so many people. If this gets built, and it will get built, if it gets approved, this is not a we're going to get development rights and hold it. And this is a project that we want to build. So, um, I had one audience member say they changed their mind. So, I'll take what I can get, but thanks guys. Thank you.

Go. Go west. So staff staff would just like to um it's not in any type of debate or anything with some of the comments that were brought but just maybe to add some information. So something on a few things and then we'll go over on um what your deliberation and what proceeding with your motions.

So I did want to say again I wanted to emphasize that this is the conceptual plan. It does not have street markings on it. It does not have the exact pipe that are going to be carried for for for storm water and things like that. It's the conceptual plan. The next step is um not assuming but if it was to go forward and did get approved their next step then is to come in with the preliminary development plan the preliminary plot and that has all of the details now that that possibly we're looking for more we would certainly look at for school safety um the residents did bring point to mind I made a note um with staff we will definitely uh if traffic is that bad on Wave Street and I apologize I do not drive Wave Street at the school pickup time or even in the morning but if there is that that seems very dangerous to me and we certainly will bring those concerns to Chief Aosta over in the police department. Um so that similarly on some of the other school crossing areas that possibly there can be some school guards or police with helping with traffic for that pickup. Um it would be something with some of the um concerns that were brought up for the school safety certainly now with the preliminary development plan. there are things that maybe we could if it gets approved uh through council that we could consider that maybe we can um create a safer pickup area for the kids uh in in in one of those areas that there was going to be uh the development. Um I did want to say there was a lot of questions about gating off at Kier Creek Estates. That is a unique subdivision in that it is a private subdivision with storm water. It's a they have HO HOA fees but the roads are public. So unfortunately um Easy Street and uh Fleming Street could not be gated off because those are public streets. The city still does maintain those. Um any new subdivision in Sebastian, anything is going to require mandatory water and sewer hookup. So there are not going to be septic tanks or or um any septic tanks either the new modified that's required by the state in the subdivision. They will have to hook up into water and sewer. Um, with that, I wanted to just remind you, so your first

decision after your deliberation is is that first item on the agenda is um, do you wish to make a recommendation to city council uh, regarding the reduction of the of the commercial PUD? I'm sorry if I did not state it. It was clear what I was talking about to vote that it meant the commission and not the public. Um, usually the public doesn't vote in these matters, but I meant the the commission. So, it'll be your vote. The commission is voting. um if you decide to um make a make a uh recommendation of denial to city council. Um and this is the land use and the zoning in our code clearly specifies that the planning and zoning commission makes a recommendation to city council. So this is not the final vote tonight if you recommend denial. It's a recommendation to city council. uh they will hold two hearings and public hearings and if you received a notice and um I understand a lot of the with outside of our radius that our code requires we will increase that a little bit more so that more residents will get when those meetings will be but there will be two readings at city council before they make their final decision also if you decide to deny it um please be kind of um uh explain your reasoning for it this is land use and zoning it's a little bit less uh than a site plan and conditional use um to have to site a specific code But if you cite your reason for the denial that will help city council uh understand why your denial u be is being forward forward to them. Um so any other questions are in your deliberation. I know um the applicant and staff were here to answer any of your

I have a question. I have one question. Are we deliberating just A right now or can are we going to deliberate A B and C?

So I think your deliberation of A includes uh everything that's been spoken tonight and presented to you. But that is the first one because if you decide not to reduce the acreage of of the commercial PUD um in essence you would be denying the other the other three applications and we still have to make motions for those but that would be the first motion you'll make. Your deliberation can be regarding the whole project itself. But if you've already kind of through your deliberation kind of decide we really don't want to reduce the commercial PUD uh that kind of uh kind of precludes your motions for the other applications. So we can approve A and not B and C.

Uh no because we've got to then if you're if you're going to recommend approval to reduce the commercial PUD, we've got to the other acreage that is remaining would have to have would have to have a land use and zoning and they've requested. So you'll have to um make at least a motion on on the land use and zoning. Okay. staff would I guess we could just follow up that if you do decide that you're um would like to forward this this project and reduce the commercial PUD and allow the change to the uh staff would recommend the um the 13 conditions that under on our staff report as uh conditions of approval for your recommendation. Okay, commissioner at the end.

Yeah. Oh, what is it? So, I just wanted to confirm with I and looking over the staff report we where is it? So from the staff report, this proposed development you guys have already confirmed has sufficient water, storm water, public utilities, and with this proposed development, they would be adding sidewalks and cleaning up the streets along Fleming Street. Correct.

Yes. So when the when the commercial the commercial PUD came in in 1997, the civil engineer assumed that and it is still the same that they can have up to 80% impervious. So 80% of the 58 acres could be covered in concrete or a building without water going through. And he designed the master storm water plan to per St. John's uh uh standards to hold all of that water runoff. That's the 8 acres and there's another storm water pond. So changing the zoning or changing it is not necessarily changing the impervious because it's it's actually less for the town homes but the stormwater system is in place and it will handle any of the the impervious area including the new impervious area for town homes. Um in your packet they had received letters from Indian River County utilities. They have shown that there is definitely um capacity to handle the water and sewer needs of that density.

Okay. and the the report it estimates that the school district has said this development would only add 20 additional children to the school district. So, Greg,

so what I can let you know and that is one of our conditions approval. Usually we get this at the preliminary development plan is that there the school board has a calculation based on on single family or multif family and it divides the children up into how many a percentage um uh it's it's actually a fraction of how many per each unit would be a uh elementary school a middle school student or a high school student and they have a form that that will have to be brought in with the development and I'm going to be honest it's not too um it's it always amazes me how less of students I think is going to also be in Now that is compared they get this the developer gets this letter because they will calculate how many children for elementary, middle and uh high school students and then that is checked against the capacity of the existing schools and if there is less capacity to handle that the developers sometimes have to commit to uh adding on wings to the school or or putting in money to fixing schools. Um but however the change and somebody had brought this up where the Pelican Island is changing from a elementary school to a school from kindergarten to 8th grade is because some of the development from the 2007208 and the capacity they thought was going to come before the recession. A lot of these schools added capacity and they have more capacity now. A lot of the schools have a lot of capacity and so they're finding that they have unused areas of the school and that's why they're kind of changing some of the schools to include those those areas. Now the chart the school on on Wave Street is a little different because it's a charter school. So the capacity of that school is not included in but it is um the amount of students is verified by the school board and we get that information when they come in with a preliminary development plan.

Okay. And so now as far as this this developer, you know, he has the property rights for this these this propert we're they're requesting to just change the basically the zoning. So their first request is asking you to reduce that's what the first one is, correct?

Yes. to reduce it down and and uh if if it's not if you determine not to in terms of property rights, they could uh continue developing the 2004 conceptual plan that includes some condos. It also has some remaining. They could come back and change that and re uh eliminate that residential area and build even the you know complete commercial. Um so there's options for him. But yes, right now it is his own commercial general. It does allow for some some town home development. Um, and it's only if you decide to reduce the commercial PUB, the consideration of the land use and zoning. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Rail.

Is this area going to be in the 512 overlay district? So, is it going to be, you know, so based on the definition of that, if any of the um uh any of the properties abuing 512, which none of these do, and residential is development is um exempt from the overlay district requirements? the uh parking. I have a problem with the parking. It seems the it are we saying that a garage is considered a parking space.

So um there was uh we in the initial um presentations Mr. Fatunic did or maybe it was Todd did bring up the U R RM8 excuse me RM10 zoning district that we did. So the MDR was a land use that was changed with our new comp plan and at that time the planning and zoning commission and council uh raised the minimum from 8 units to acre from 10 and 12 and then we had to adopt um and create an RM10. So within the last three or four years yes and those parking calculations were reviewed by you guys and the council to make the text change. The idea was is um that the uh um residential requires two parking spaces, but in the normal we don't allow the uh space to be counted in the garage. It had to be in the driveway. People do park their car in the garage. It was considered and and presented in the text amendment. So yes, they're required actually it's one and a half spaces. They do get credit for the garages. Uh we do require then guest parking spaces throughout the community. I believe the conceptual showed areas where there would be guest parking. Um but it appeared at first review again the conceptual plan that they would be able to meet their parking needs as the current code.

The guest parking is going to have handicap parking. Would that you know reduce the number of available parking for the um residents. I think the handicap parking would be required on your uh individual site plans for your recreation areas where there could be access from that. We would assume if there was handicap parking needed that that would be parked at the house, but it would be the parks and wreck areas that would have the handicap parking. I also see that there's going to be four access points with one emergency. So that's a total of five access points. Um I Yes.

Okay. I have some concerns because it is just a it's not like a the site plan that I'm used to seeing. I'm concerned about the driveways and the um the sidewalk along the side of the road. Do we know if this is going to be curb and gutter? So, Fleming Street already is curbed and gutter. I mean, in the in the in the development. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Curb and gutter.

Yes. Uh we can deliberate uh we can talk about the recommendations also on number number eight in your recommendations we have all utility infrastructure specific to the residential development that traverse under Fleming Street should be responsible by the HOA would we want water and sewer to be responsible by for the HOA? Um, no. That is necessarily. Well, yes, if if it's so if there's a water and sewer line that goes under Fleming Street that's coming from one side of the road. Yes. I'm not sure. Uh, again, we don't have the detailed utility plan, but initially it shows that if it's running under Fleming Street going from one townhouse area to another townhouse area, city would not be want responsible for that. That would be the HOA. Of course, coordinating within your county if there was a break.

Say, wouldn't they in the rightway wouldn't they belong to the county? Why would you want the HOA is not going to be able to fix a busted water mane in the middle of the night or a backed up sewer line? I'm not sure though if even if that does occur in private subdivisions if they're build back to the HOA. Um it's more of a county utility question. I apologize. I don't know the direct answer to that. Okay. But we just wanted to make sure that the city was not responsible. City's responsible for the road maintenance and the sidewalk maintenance, but any of the tree the newly planted trees or the irrigation would not be the city's responsibility.

Okay. So, we didn't get a a landscape plan, so we're not going to be able to see the in uh the opaque buffer. That's correct. Correct. I mean, it shows where landscaping is going to be, but we'll make sure that that's an opaque buffer along um the south and the uh east side. Any place that's a buddy in a single family district. Do we know that the depth of the manhole of the existing sewer system on Fleming Street is going to be able to be extended to permit gravity from No. And that's where there's a lot more civil engineering if the conceptual plan is approved. Those are the details that come with you to the on the preliminary plan. That's all I have.

My turn. When when the city um had to create that new RM 10, was that because of the state of Florida kind of pushing that we all needed more affordable housing? I think some of the consideration when we raised our medium density residential, which has always been in our comp plan, but it was always eight units per acre. And so, um, the consideration was to allow the developers to get a little bit more density. And, and I'm going to be honest, and again, this is not necessarily for against the project, but we have a lot of developers come in and are just a gasast that our highest density is 10 to 12 because they're looking for 20 and 25 units per acre. and they're very surprised that our highest is 10 to 12. So, uh you know, I think that was consideration when we when we did the comp plan that we didn't raise it more than the 12, but we did raise the eight from 10 to 12 in hoping to get some additional uh attainable workforce housing.

Um because of that though, we we still only had RM8 zoning in our land development code. So we created the RM10 zoning and the change that was in 2025 is the original RM10 our townhouse uh specifications uh and requirements were not to what the standard what some of the um models are coming out for the town houses what the developers were building and we had a lot of uh the three townhouse projects that we had coming in were all going to need either variances and when you have that many coming in you have to look at your code and we adjusted that code in 2025 for the town houses, um the dimensions of the sites and minimum square footage and things like that.

Would we be able to instead of approving the whole 28 29 acres for residential to would we have the authority to cut that in half and not have the So these are this is what they requesting and this is on their application. So, I don't think you can modify that. Uh, you can discuss it, maybe let you know. And if that's your reason for a denial, I believe that would be up to the developer to possibly come back and then modify his application. Um, but I believe you need to, city attorney can verify you need to make a decision on their request that's asked on their application.

Okay, that's correct. That's all I had,

Mr. Harter. Okay, first of all, I'd like to thank the um applicants for making such a thorough presentation, and I especially like the charts. So, thank you. And um you were attacked personally tonight, and I apologize for that. That is not the way Sebastian residents should should act. And of course, we were we we were told that we're in cahoots with you guys somehow, never having met you people. And if you're sending checks out, you miss me. I apologize for that. I'm sure I'll get an apology from whoever said it. Okay. A lot of questions have come up about schools and about water and about uh animals. Of course, I'm the turtle lady. This is what we have. We're all volunteers. I don't know why we do this, but this is the kind of work that our staff puts into the information that we spend hours reading and questioning so we can come here and sound somewhat intelligent. So Dory, you and your staff are remarkable. Just remarkable. I did have a question and I probably should know this. How many bites of the apple do we get on this

in terms of planning and zoning commission? If if we if we move this forward, it goes straight to the commission for two meetings and we don't see it again. No. Incorrect. So this is the con this is the land use resoning and the conceptual plan. So we say

you're doing a recommendation to city council. They will have two readings of the ordinances. Um if then the then the applicant per our code uh with conceptual I believe they have up to 18 months to submit the preliminary development plan. Again that's the one that was more details that would go through that process. The next step is is then we get subdivision construction drawings. Um and at that point they would be then uh could then come in if that goes through the city engineer um and then that's when they would be possibly be able to apply for their life. So there are still after tonight there are one, two, there would still be five more public hearings um for consideration and discussion. Um and then it gets more into the actual development plans and then we can get picky.

Uh well with the preliminary development plan, that's where there's a lot more details and code requirements that the plan would have to meet.

Okay. Um just a couple picky questions. Um on p on uh item 17e it listed the um assessed value of the homes as 350 but you said it was 285 to 300 or so. So I'll be honest that was um that is in the staff report. Um it was some information that we sometimes will get from the applicant. So I wanted to fill in some some numbers for you. So, what I did was go to uh the 2025 tax bill for the town houses off of Schuman Drive, the Sandwich Estates, and clicked on a couple of them, and they were all within that 350 assessed value, and staff determined taxes based on that. Okay, that figure that's in the staff report that did come from staff.

Okay, thank you for the clarification. Um, I also didn't see any parking for these amenities and the ever popular kayak uh river at the development. I didn't see any guest parking for for them, but that's okay. I don't need an answer. I'm just mentioning it as a concern. I have to go down Schuman Drive to get to my very wonderful gated community and I and most a lot of those homes would be so nice, but they're rentals. For that reason, I just I just can't get behind multi-use. Um, if this were reduced to single homes, if this could be reduced to single homes, I think you presented a nice plan minus the kayak. But anyway, I think you've you've come up with a good plan. But, you know, duplexes and multif family, I I just see rentals in front of me and I I can't get over that. You know, that um and I don't remember the name of it. It used to be called the village shops or something right on US one where you little Warren in there.

Thank you. Anyway, something like that. I could see you you getting some bang for your buck as general general um commercial. If you did something like that, you'd get traffic, but not as much as 291 town homes. and I, you know, a little garden in there and people would park and weave around and go to the shops and the restaurants and, you know, all that kind of thing. I'd love to see something like that there. Um, and those are all my positive comments for this evening. Um, in regards to the safety for the children, Liberty Magnet is the worst parent pickup school in the city. And I know that because I've picked up at Pelican Island and I have picked up at Sebastian. And I made the mistake one day of picking up at Pelican Island and trying to get to Sebastian by going down Fleming. That was a mistake. I got there after 4:00 and the office was already calling me saying, "Why aren't you picking up your kids?" So that is that is a main concern for these people. Absolutely. and for the people who have children in that school. That put aside, having worked for the city of Sebastian for over 30 years and then being on the city council and now on the planning and zoning, I've seen a lot of things and I've talked to a lot of residents and I also cannot get behind this. And I would um request that the police department standing here in in the building speak to the chief about looking into a better way to get

the pickup line at that school because it is very very unsafe.

I'm sorry. That's all I have.

That's it. Okay, it's my turn. Um, I I'm I'm shocked at the number. It shocked me when I read the number. 291 homes. But I spent hours going through this and uh I am I have a clear understanding of cries of property rights and the fact that that land although it has not been fully developed was not property that didn't belong to anybody and never had any plans attached to to it. That land has been zoned since the inception of this city almost. And anybody who bought a home anywhere near it, I would have thought might have checked to see what the land nearby is zoned for and said, "Yeah, I can live with that." Or, "Nope, I'm going to look elsewhere." Um, that's that's just part of the deal about being grown up in the real world. I guess I would be much happier and I would feel much better about this because because of what I've lived in the city 30 years. I've been involved in the real estate for oh my god I'm going to say it out loud 50 years. Jeez, I don't know how that happens. Um, I I am pretty much in touch with what's

going on with the real estate market, although I'm no longer involved in the end of it that has me showing houses and writing contracts. Now, I fix other people's contracts. But I have to tell you that we do have a distinct need for housing which is more easily attainable not just by the people who are starting out in life but the people who are getting near the end of life. Um there are many many instances where um people need they still need housing. They want respectable housing. They want to be owners of a property rather than a tenant. And these are although we're using the term multifamily, they're not rental units. You buy a townhouse and you own it. And when you're tired of living there, you sell it. Um, town houses and their associations that run them can stipulate that no more than a certain percentage of them are ever used for rental. That's within their right to do that if that's what the people in that association want. Um, I'm I'm not opposed to town houses. In fact, um if if I ruled the world and and we're all lucky I don't, by the way, um I would not only have town houses, but I would have attached to those town houses on every single building structure. On each end, I'd have a patio home and it would be probably somewhere between 750 and 900 square feet. That's the ideal for the single

new teacher who moves into town and wants to live in a decent neighborhood. Um, she can afford it. The uh the young couple starting out can afford it. the retired widow can afford it. Um, and from a development standpoint, um, the city nor any association is encumbered with trying to figure out how to maintain an attainable price level because smaller spaces always sell for less money. So, they would always tend to be more affordable than the larger spaces. And a lot of folks out here live in in beautiful nice homes. I live in a beautiful nice home on a half acre. In fact, on my street, which is two blocks long, every single lot on my street except for me because I have double lot and some of my neighbors has a nice house on it and they've all been there. probably the newest one is 20 years old and there are no children, none in two blocks. Uh I'm not concerned about that. If the school said they have capacity, I know that they do. And I also know that right now they're moving classes around because they have too much capacity. So I'm not worried about that. And uh just because you have uh 16,700 square foot house doesn't mean you're going to fill it up with children. So anyway, um I I'm really torn um about this. Um I we have a need for more commercial property, but I also am very very aware

of the need for having some attainable housing. um that gets lived in by people who work in Sebastian and want to raise their families in Sebastian. And uh and I know that you all don't agree with me. Um but thank goodness it's still America and we all get to have our own opinions. Um

I do have a few a few issues few questions that we go that I have here. Um the issue with encroachment on a an easement um because of the the business that I'm in or have been uh a property that is in an encroachment has a problem. Um, even though whoever agrees for it, if that structure is in the easement, it's going to be hard to get a loan. Okay? It's okay if you buy cash. They don't care. Uh, but whenever you have a structure in an easement, you're going to have a problem. Um, and nobody wants to take responsibility for it 15 years down the road. Um, so that I I would uh I would not like to see properties built in an easement. Um, let's see. Um, I I do know that u if this if if we were to if we were to recommend this to city council, then city council gets to whack at it. Um, and we understand full well that we are an advisory committee and we can advise them not to step into the fire, but that doesn't mean that they won't. So, um I also there are a few other things that I think some people don't realize and that's we all talk about the traffic on

512. I don't know if you've ever looked at where the um easements run on 512, but most of us don't even recognize that 512 is wider than 95. probably didn't even recognize that. So, and and do we want that? No, we don't want it. But we don't have to be we we try to look toward the future when we're when we're planning things. And we can't always see what's coming down the road, but we I can tell you that growth is not going to stop. Um, it's going to happen one way or another. The best thing we can do is control it to the best of our abilities and that property will be developed at some point in time, one way or another. And I can guarantee you because of the the many years that I've spent doing this that there will always be a room full of people who don't want whatever is going to go there because nobody likes change in their neighborhood.

Y So, um I'm talking about it and that's all I have to say. And aren't we glad of that? Okay. Um, if we're all done deliberating, we could have a motion. You ready for a motion? I'm ready. Are you ready for a motion?

I'm ready. Madam Chairman, I'd like to make a motion that we do not recommend to city council Ches Gap commercial PUD request to modify the conceptual planned unit development plan. Sebastian Town Homes, a town houses LLC applicant 58 acres more or less request to reduce size to 28.27 27 acres located at Sebastian Boulevard in Fleming Street, southwest of Sebastian 512 Commerce Center. Current land use to remain is CG General Commercial. Zoning to remain is BUC plan unit development commercial.

I second. And Mr. Carter with the denial um you should that motion should include the reason why you're denying it. your reason. I I don't think that their their request to modify the acres is sufficient to justify.

Please don't please don't do that. Okay. I Yeah, I still sec second it. Okay. A voice vote, please. Excuse me. Yeah. Roll call. Yeah, roll call vote. Okay, Miss Kinchin, a yes vote denies and agrees. Yes, Miss Cottonberg.

I'm going to reserve my vote till the end. Mr. Roberts. So yes is to deny it. Correct. Yes. So I'll I'll say no. No. Miss Mr. Reno. No. Miss Geese. Yes. Miss Laruso. Yes. Mr. Carter. Yes. We Well, Miss Cottonberg, what is your

No. No. We have four yes and three no. Motion is motion carries. Motion is carried. So, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, there are still there are still motions to make. Excuse me. We still have We still have a meeting in progress.

So, there there are still two motions then you would need to make regarding the other requests. Yes, we're we're going to hold off for a minute while these people clear the room and then we'll go on with the rest of our meeting. The other two motions.

I know they're rude now. Yeah, I know. That was good. I like why they never did. I thought that would be a perfect place. I don't know why there's no demand for that.

Oh, no. This wasn't going to be that. Then they'd have to make then it couldn't be commercial. It's going to be commercial. So, it was going to be like a resort. I always get here early supposed to be very And I had to park. Well, you saw I had to park down there. Yeah. Okay. Um, we'll get back at it now. Could we Could we have a motion? Are you ready for a motion? Yes, sir.

Madam Chairman, I'll make U motion to not make a recommendation to city council for item B. Uh, Chester's Gap PUB future land use MA uh map LUM. Amendment smallcale Sebastian town houses LLC applicant 29.43 43 acres more or less located at Sebastian Boulevard in Fleming, southwest of Sebastian, 512 Commerce Center. Current land use is CG General Commercial. Requested land use is, excuse me, MDR, medium density residential, 10 units per acre.

I'll second that, Miss Kinchin. Hold on just one sec, Madam Chair, if I may. I just want to clarify and and we all know what we're doing. I just want to make sure the verbiage is right because you keep saying make a motion not to make a recommendation. You have to make a recommendation. So what your motion is, what the I believe motion is meant to a recommendation to deny. So that's what the last one was taken as and we'll continue in that region. Miss Kinshin, did you second that? Yes, I did. And I will second that amendment based on the attorney's comments. Roll call vote, please. Yes.

Miss Laruso. Yes. Mr. Roberts. Yes. Miss Geese. Yes. Mr. Reno. Yes. Miss Kinchin. Yes. Mr. Carter. Yes. Miss Cottonberg. Yes. The vote is 7 to zero in favor and the motion carries. Want to take a third swing.

Madam chair, I'll make a motion for item C. Deny recommendation to city council for Chester's Gap PUD reszoning/conceptual plan unit development plan. Sebastian Town Houses LLC applicant 2.43 acres more or less located at Sebastian Boulevard and Fleming Street southwest of the Sebastian 512 Commerce Center. Current zoning is PUD- C plan unit development-commercial. Requested zoning is PUDR plan unit development- residential with RM-10 multifamily residential district as the underlying district.

Looking for a second. I'll second that. Roll call vote, please. Mr. Roberts. Yes. Miss Aruso. Yes. Miss Gasey. Yes. Miss Kinchin. Yes. Mr. Reno. Yes. Mr. Carter. Yes. Miss Cottonberg. Yes. The vote was 7 to zero in favor. Motion carries.

Thank you. We have uh no uh unfinished business and we have something that shows up on our agenda. Yes. Um we were going to do training but given the late hour um we will defer that to a later meeting. It's beyond the training hour. That's for sure. That's right. This meeting is now adjourned. Thank you all.