City Council - Regular Meeting

GOOD EVENING. GOOD EVENING.

GOOD EVENING.

I'LL BRING THIS MAY 26TH I'LL BRING THIS MAY 26TH I'LL BRING THIS MAY 26TH REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING TO ORDER. TO ORDER. TO ORDER. IF WE COULD PLEASE RISE IF WE COULD PLEASE RISE IF WE COULD PLEASE RISE FOR A MOMENT OF SILENCE FOR A MOMENT OF SILENCE FOR A MOMENT OF SILENCE FOLLOWED BY THE FOLLOWED BY THE FOLLOWED BY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY COUNCIL MEMBER NUNN.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I PLEDGE ALLEGIAN

Roll call. Vice Mayor McPartland.

Here.

Council Member Nunn. Here. Council Member Matthews. Present. Council Member Dodd.

Here.

And Mayor Jones is excused tonight.

All right.

Thank you. Council, any agenda modifications? No? Okay. Well, I have one. We have Council Member Aaron Voss is here from Vero Beach. He wants to talk about a program that they're going to be doing down for the 250th. So if he could speak after our current proclamations, awards, and brief announcements. You're welcome. Okay, good. All right. So our brief announcements is Friday, June the 5th, the City of Sebastian's summer kickoff concert featuring Hot Pink, at Riverview Park from 6 to 9 p.m. Didn't they kick it off last year, Brian?

Yes, sir, they did. They're back once again.

All right. They're very good. So at this time, Mr. Voss, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Council, for having me here. As you know, 4th of July this year is a pretty big event not only within our county but within the state and the country. And to honor that, in conjunction with the county sponsoring a lot of the Fourth of July events, and I know you have your nice parade here, your fireworks here in Sebastian, but also in Vero Beach, we're going to have a parade this year and a few other events. And on July 3rd, at 10 o'clock in the morning, we're going to have a time capsule event. And it includes all the cities, towns, and the county. These get their own little cylinder. They can vary in a time capsule at the Heritage Center. So I want to present this to you. So you can fill this up as part of the community. I also request that not only the community, but also staff, they're part of our community, everyone that makes the cities work. So with... I'll charge this to the mayor and the city manager to make sure it gets filled up properly and be there on time. Then right after the time capsule, around 6 o'clock in the evening, we're going to have a colonial ball. You get dressed up in period dress. It's only $25. All are welcome. And then we've got the 4th of July activities on the island with... Our fireworks, we have food trucks, a veterans ceremony as well, starting at 4.30 in the park. So it'll be a pretty big event, and it'll complement Sebastian's effort here with your parade. And if you feel so inclined, as soon as you're done with your parade, You can scurry on down to Vero Beach on 14th Avenue. It starts at 10 o'clock in the morning on July 4th, the parade. So you're welcome to join the parade as well. Again, it's not a City of Vero Beach parade. It's a community event. So really appreciate to see you all there. All the community is welcome as well. Thank you.

All right. Thank you.

Thank you.

I was expecting to see in your Revolutionary War attire that you were at the county commission.

Oh, yeah, almost. Almost there, yeah. That's what happened is I was drenched up as Paul Revere. Yeah, it was fun. All right, thank you. Thank you.

All right.

All right, this brings us up to public input. Now is the time for anybody who wants to bring something before the council that's not on the already prepared agenda. Yes, sir.

Good evening. My name is Glen Urlacher Sebastian. I come here just to say thank you. Thank you to the people of Sebastian. Thank you to y'all. Thank you for the people that work here, the Parks Department, City Council, everybody. Just thank you for what you do. Our parks, the music, the senior centers, the community centers, our memorials for the fallen. You pay attention to all of them. You make us a city. I cannot forget to thank our park department because they keep the city looking pristine. They cut the grass. It's wonderful. They pick up the trash. They do all sorts of great things. And the men and women in uniform. They save us. They protect us. So I want to thank them for that. And now for the cornerstone of Sebastian. I think our people, who are part of our lives, wouldn't be the same here without all of us, everybody in our town. It doesn't matter if they're here full-time or part-time. They are the mechanism that keeps the engine running. without the help of our volunteers who work tirelessly to create our events, who support the organizations that help feed, clothe, and even, in some cases, house the less fortunate people. Currently, our Senior Resource Center of the Indian River County are short some 200 drivers. These are the folks that deliver Meals on Wheels. And... The food banks could also use any help, volunteers. The Chum Bucket, which I'm associated with, and the food bank, which I'm associated with, could use your help also. This summer, I've personally connected with the public supermarkets at Barber Street and 510, 512, and they're allowing me to put up a table randomly and on different satellites throughout the summer. And we're collecting food. and donations, and at which time we're handing them off to the Roseland Food Bank and the Chum Bucket of the high school. Because during the summer, there's no food for the kids, no lunches. This may help. I worked out there last year, and the cupboards were bare. So that's all I basically have to say. except for one last thing, is in 1961, JFK said, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. That's it. All right. Thank you, sir.

Anyone else from? Yes, ma'am.

Good evening. Good evening. My name is Mary Fikes in Sebastian, and I want to tell you about that first BOGO challenge day that we had at the Publix. But first, I need to tell you that I'm a member of the Sebastian River Art Club, and I chair a group called the Mini Masterpieces, which are small, pieces of art donated by many artists in the club. I take them, I sell them, we display them, and all the proceeds of that go to the Ecumenical Food Pantry in Roseland. So because we had that program going already and I had the relationship with the food bank, it seemed like a good fit to have the art club sponsor the first donation day, which is what happened on May the 9th. Many of our art club members went out. They manned the table. They sold some of the mini masterpieces. But more importantly, they told people about the challenge, the BOGO challenge, buy one, give one for the food bank. Well, as soon as they heard that we were collecting for the food bank, donations started rolling in. It was beautiful to hear the comments and all the joy in the day. At the end of the day, we collected nearly $5,000 GROCERY CARDS, HEEPING GROCERY CARDS FULL OF FOOD WHICH EQUATED TO 275 FOOD ITEMS. I MOVED THEM. WE ALSO COLLECTED $413.51 AND THE FOOD PANTRY WAS really appreciative of getting all our donations. It was a good day. And I come here to express my sincere thanks to the people of Sebastian and to remind folks what a wonderful, caring community that we live in. Sebastian showed up that day and made a real difference. So thank you for allowing me to come here and share this with you tonight. And I hope to see you all Saturday. at Publix on 512, where we'll be doing buy one, give one for the chunk bucket. Thank you.

All right. Thank you, ma'am. Anyone else from the public wish to speak? Yes, sir.

Mayor and council, Richard Gilmore, Sebastian. It just makes your heart glad when you hear stuff like that. Sebastian is a special place. It really is. I had asked that when you asked for any change in the agenda, I did ask that item C, was it C, to be pulled? I'm going to pull it. Oh, it's already pulled. Okay, great. Talk a little bit about Artie Park. I know we're going to bring that up.

Let's do that when we pull it.

Okay, all right. The thing I want you all to understand and focus on is that if we lose ad valorem on homesteaded properties, there's going to be a big hole in your budget. Whatever budget you guys come up with, there's going to be a big hole in it. According to the tax assessor, 64% of the property here in Sebastian is homesteaded. Now, 10 years ago, our tax base, ad valorem tax base... Okay. Okay. That's okay. Can you hear me now? Okay. 10 years ago, in 2016, our tax base, ad valorem, was $2.5 million, $3 million, something like that. I think last year was $8-point-something million was our ad valorem. Take 64% of $9 million... away, you're looking at $6 million is going to be a hole in your budget. And you have to start planning on what if. What if we don't have $6 million? Where is that going to come from? We went through a tough time in 08, 09, 10, 11 when ad valorem sunk because values of houses went down. And the city pulled through. But we pulled through. It was tough. But everything got taken care of. I mean, the parks got mowed. Employees took one day a week they didn't get paid for. They took a voluntary day off once a week. It was tough. But we came through it. And I know we can, if this happens again... we can come through it again. But please be forward looking into what if we don't have that 64% of our ad valorem that we're counting on to do our budget. The other thing that I would like to suggest real briefly is that with a new gal or a person that's going to be taking over from Jeanette, I think what we have to think about is When we have something important like waste management come up, when their contract comes up, it's important for you all to know that a year in advance so that we can start thinking about, let's go out to bid. The last time that happened, it was a fiasco, and we went from two pickup days to one pickup day, and we got paid twice as much for the trash pickup because we didn't have enough time to go out to bid. So there are other, I'm sure, important contracts coming due. And I think maybe every six months it would be important for the city clerk or the county or for the city manager to get with the council and say, look, these things are coming due. We're going to have to think about going out to bid. What do you all think? Yes. I don't think that's too much to ask.

No.

Okay. Thank you, sir. That's my story. Thank you.

Anyone else from the public? Yes, sir.

Lower mic. Perfect for me. Hi, Jeff Hamilton, Sebastian. Good evening. All right. This was mentioned at the beginning and a couple times during the meeting last week. It's not on the agenda, but it does need to be brought up frequently. The septic to sewer and that when Mayor Jones mentioned the interlocal agreement from 95, and he also seemed to have bypassed it and pooh-poohed saying, no, the other councils up until now haven't done anything. Well, somebody needs to. Now the state has stepped in with the statute requiring it. The definition on it, the hard definition is now, even if our septic system like mine was only built in 20, it's 10 years, it's still working beautifully. It'll be 10 years in 2030. I'm going to have to put out $20,000. There's 10,000 houses in this city of $180 million that the residents will have to put out. Whose responsibility is it to hold the county's feet to the fire? I know Vice Mayor McFartland is trying to become a county commissioner. Are you going to make any different attempts to force the county to finally do this? Maybe if the state sees an actual design being developed, we can do something. Maybe we'll get an extension so that I and the other residents don't drop $25,000 or $20,000 I know there's grants, but that's taxpayer money too, that suddenly is redundant because the county comes in the next day and says, guess what? We're doing it now. And I don't think they're looking beyond regular gravity force main systems. Tavernier, Marathon, Apalachicola are all using a vacuum-based system. It's a lot more efficient, costs a lot less. They don't have to go as deep. It should be considered. I'm hoping that these people in charge out of the county, and it is up to the council to stand up. Nobody wants to spend money. We're being forced to. So it's time to stand up and get on it and be more vocal. Make sure the residents know that you're doing it. We drive by the marquees every day. Not all of us read the Sebastian Daily, whatever we want to call it, for little public notices. But we drive by the marquees. Occasionally you see a meeting with the county mentioned, and it's in the middle of the day when you can't get there if you work a regular job. Somebody needs to step up and say, guys, you want to do a workshop at North County? Do it in the evening when we can see it. Blare it from the marquees for us. Just so that we're all involved and people know what's going on. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Anyone else from the public?

Mr. Mayor. Yes, sir. Is it possible for me to say something about some of the stuff that was brought up? Sure. Okay. I know we don't want to interact with the people doing this. Okay. I really have to. There were some things that were not sufficiently correct and some things that we're assuming. And the concern that I have is that people hear this and they think what we just said is true. And I understand the whole concept about what's going to happen with the ad valerum taxes and We are dealing with that, the council is. We've had educational sessions here in the chamber, very poorly attended, very few people showed up, in which our city manager spent a lot of time explaining what was going on with that. We're dealing with that issue about the ad valorem taxes. There is no indication there's going to be any layoffs or furloughs or anybody's going to lose any paycheck or time. I would hate for our employees to hear that and think that that's a possibility because It's just flat unless somebody wants to go crazy. It's not going to happen. We're going to be able to survive that ad valorem tax thing. Our role today is to convince the voters how stupid it is to do away with ad valorem taxes. That's what our goal is. And that's where we're moving. And we're working very strongly with Florida League of Cities and so forth. Waste management. The waste management issue was not because no one paid attention to the contract. The issue with waste management was going from two times a week to one time a week, and changing that was because it was going to be $44 or something greater in cost to the people who were already subscribers if we stayed with the two-time-a-week process. It was purely financial. It was going to be a financial burden on the residents, 75% of whom were subscribers to waste management, if we stayed within the current confines of the contract, two times a week, subscription only. So the council made the decision, not a unanimous decision, but the council made a decision to go to the universal collection process and to go to one time a week. That was purely financial. It wasn't because of any misnomer. The one thing that did fall apart was that our state of management at the time misinterpreted what was going to happen to put it on the put the waste management collection on the tax rolls, and we did have a potential issue, but we went back to waste management, negotiated, and they covered our losses during that period of time in which it was not gonna be put on tax rolls. As far as the septic to sewer stuff, we've been trying since 2016. I've personally been trying, the council's been trying since 2016 to get that adequately serviced by the county utility. We understand the complexity of that. They are in the process now of getting the city involved in reviewing a document that's been produced by the county on what it would take to do that. It's not ready for the council to even think about it. It's a draft form, and there's a lot of work involved in that. But it's not something that we're not... and it's not something that we're not trying to do. This council has been working on this for a long time. It's not like we just threw our hands up in the air and didn't think about it. We invested money in order to convert the septic tanks directly on the lagoon. The city's paying for the piping. The county is paying for the labor in order to make that happen. There's a lot of stuff that the city has been doing to try to make that work as we move forward. The state has passed a piece of legislation that requires anybody in a basin management plan convert to the new septic systems or to a central collection system by July 1, 2030. It is absolutely ridiculous that anybody thinks that the tens of thousands of septic systems in the state of Florida and basin management plans are all going to convert by July 1. There's not enough plumbers in the United States to do that. There's just not enough septic systems anywhere in Florida to make that transition happen. So the fact that they did that piece of legislation doesn't necessarily mean we have to panic. So the worst thing we can do is panic about ad valorem taxes and about septic, and we work the process, do the planning, and work the process. And I believe that's what we're doing. So I want to make sure that the message is clear. that we're doing this, we're working this process through the system. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

All right. You're welcome. Anyone else for public input? Anyone on Zoom?

No one has raised their hand at this time.

All right. We'll close public input. That leads us up to our consent agenda. I want to pull item C, please. We're going to pull item C, and I'd like to pull item B. So that leaves us with... I'll make approval to approve item A of the consent agenda. Second. All right. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? All right. That passes. All right. I pulled item B just for informational. It has to do with we were waiving the fee for the community center so Healthy Start can do what's called a community baby shower for expectant mothers and mothers of newborns. And they'll be providing a lunch, diapers and wipes, children's activities. They usually go around and they'll have play pens as well as car seats for them. And again, as you know, I heard with a lot of the food pantries that are running dry, I mean, that's a very real thing. And I was hoping that, Brian, maybe we find something about the chum bucket and get it put out on Channel 25 because the school system happens to be where some of these children only get two meals a day is from the school. But again, and then also put this on from the Healthy Start, it's June the 6th at the community center. Starting at 10 a.m.? 11. 11 a.m. Okay. Well, if you get there at 10, you get there earlier. You get your pick of the items. So with that, I make a motion to approve item 12B. Second.

All right.

All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? And then item C, Mr. Dunn?

Okay, I pulled that because Richard Gilmore, a resident, wants to address this item, so I pulled it to let him have an opportunity to address it, or anyone else who wants to address this.

Mr. Gilmore?

I love Hardy Park. You guys are doing a great job keeping everything nice and clean and... I just think it's perfect the way it is. And I don't see where half a million dollars is going to make it any better. Now, recently, there's been some things that have happened there close to Hardy Park. There was some new wood put down on the bridge that was one inch when the original was two inches. I think that's going to be a problem. I think that's not going to last very long. The equipment that was put in recently, the new playground equipment is wonderful. It's beautiful, but nobody's using it because there was like six weeks there where the old stuff was gone and there was nothing there. And normally when I walk, I see kids using the playground equipment. People using it. But to date, I've not seen anybody using that new equipment. The new equipment's great. The old equipment wasn't that bad. I just think that if we sink a half million dollars in that park, it's not going to be any better than it is right now. walking today and for the last couple weeks there's been two little red flags yellow flags down where there's a root on one of the by the walkway there and the root is you know coming out of the ground but it wouldn't have taken but about two minutes to cut that root out with an axe instead of putting those little flags down um So here's my thoughts. $450,000 grant, that'd be wonderful, but we're putting in $112,500 from discretionary sales tax. Circling back to my point before, if there is a hole in your budget, where is it going to be made up? Maybe discretionary sales tax if it's available. Okay? If it's not in the park. I don't think there's a thing wrong with that park. It's perfect. Just leave it alone. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Can we get Richard to kind of explain?

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'll start off and then we can go to Richard. So just to address some of the items that were brought to our attention, just for clarification, discretionary sales tax can only be used for infrastructure improvements. It can't be used to pay staff. It can't be used for maintenance. It can only be used for infrastructure improvements. That's one, so that's not eligible to make up any potential loss in ad valorem taxes. Two, in regards to the prior playground equipment, that playground equipment had exceeded its lifespan. It was failing inspections, and we had to replace it. either replace it or pull it out, one of the two. But the standards that we have to follow as a governmental entity in regards to playground equipment is much higher than a private sector, a resident, a church, items such as that. So we have to ensure, and we've had lawsuits in which they want to see our inspections, and we have to have these inspections taking place on a consistent basis. The playground had failed inspection. in multiple instances. We had gotten some repaired previous years, and then it continued to fail after we did repairs. So that's number two. Three, I'll let Richard kind of divulge more information on this, but if you know there's a large group of exercise equipment at Hardy Park, this would include which that has reached its lifespan. It needs to be pulled out in the near future. Our opportunity here was to go after a grant that would facilitate the replacement of that with some exercise equipment that may or may not be stationary as it currently is. There's pull-ups, chin-up bars, things like that are stationary. The new exercise equipment that you see on the market now has a little bit more movement to it, and it's not just stationary body weight equipment. That was a thought process on this. Also, improvements to the parking lot. That parking lot is basically a Millings parking lot. When it rains, we get potholes. We go out and repair it. And, you know, constantly people driving, coming and going. So it would include parking lot improvements as well. But I'll let Richard kind of take it from there to give you a little bit more information on exactly the details on that. But I did want to just address a couple of those comments prior to him speaking.

Good evening, Council. Richard Blankenship, Parks and Recreation Director. To add to what Mr. Benton had to say, May 18th we held a sole purpose meeting, which is a requirement of the recreational trails grant. There were 13 people in attendance that had a list of improvements that were needed at Artie Park. Some of them are super obvious, like the parking lot needs to be upgraded. The trail is uneven throughout the park. We're getting the roots shaved appropriately. Instead of chopping them, we're getting them shaved to reduce the trip hazard. The equipment, exercise equipment needs to be replaced. One of the requests was more shade on the Barber Street side of the trail because they have a particular name for that area, the common walkers, and they were requesting shade. So there are a lot of things there that need to be upgraded. And throughout the board item, We use the term upgraded. We're not looking to put anything differently there than is already there. We're just looking to upgrade what's already there. At some point, if we keep kicking the can down the road, the maintenance costs are going to increase. Liability is going to be an issue. So we want to get out in front of it. Now, this is a federal grant. So we'll use Riverview Land and Water Conservation. We're going on almost three years dealing with that. We have an agreement. We're getting close to plans, but it takes a long time for these type of grants to play out. So if funded, then we'll go into public workshops for design and all that kind of stuff. What we had last week was just a grant requirement for sole purpose. With that, I'll answer any questions you may have.

Counsel, any questions? I have something I'd like to mention. So, you know... It's easy to say, I like it just how it is. When you have equipment that has to be replaced, you can't, I like it how it is. The option is we rip it all out and don't replace it with anything. That's leaving it like it is because if we don't spend money, we can't put new equipment in there. The grants you're getting is... what's our part about 25 percent 25 25 i mean that that's an unheard of grant for that a park type of a project so that's that's an amazing grant uh to do it and you know people say well that's tax money too but well the deal is with that tax money is if we don't spend it uh palm bay will and we still have to pay it back with our federal taxes like everybody else does and we got no benefit for that money so you know i i'm all for upgrading the park, doing the things that need to be done, making it safer, making it better for the people that use it. I get the point of, I like it how it is, but there's some things you can't just leave how it is. You have to fix the problems. You have to replace the stuff that's end of lifing. And I think that's where we are. So, and I know that's what we had a meeting about to discuss the things that needed to be done with that park. And you had some pretty good suggestions. So I appreciate it. Thank you.

Anyone else have a question for Richard? I don't have a question, but I did attend, I sat in there for a little bit, and it was really interesting in what was going on. And I wanted you to, if you could, just expand a little bit on the upgrades and what you were talking about so that the folks know that you're not looking at changing, but what the upgrade actually is. Because there was a big concern about the, on the trails and the changes and what, so what was talked about and the consensus?

Well, one of the issues was the parking lot, to upgrade it, to formalize it. maybe extended a little bit. One of the major issues was the, for lack of a better term, the indention of the trail. The trail is uneven. Some places it's more like a ditch than a trail. So we would want to level the trail out throughout the park, add some more tables and benches along the trail path. That trail gets a ton of use, so it needs to be Upgraded to with a material that lasts and it's not going to float away It's not going to be walked away is it's not gonna be blown away, and that's not going to be cheap, but That will be the mid that will I would assume that will be the major Element of the upgrade is that is the trail making it safer and and more resilient? then additional landscaping and and shade as I mentioned and We have been awarded another grant to do shade in that park aside from this. So there'll be hopefully there'll be more trees coming soon.

Thank you.

Also the other thing was the concern about the open field area that that's going to be left alone and so that there will still be open field area.

We have no plan of a soccer goals or baseball or anything like that. There's a lot of value in open space.

You haven't actually finalized the plan for what's going to be done to the park.

We won't do the planning until we, if we're awarded the grant.

Yes, and then that's going to go through the parks committee and it's going to be reviewed. People have an opportunity to discuss it and so forth before anything's done with it. Okay, I just wanted to bring that out. There's no final plan for what's going to be done. Heaven to bid we tell them no, but obviously if we can't get the world to approve a final plan, and then we can always not take the grant. We don't have to pay the money. I hate to think about not taking a grant, but we can always do that. So thank you. Anything else?

Anyone from the public wish to address this application for the grant for Hardy Park? Anyone on Zoom?

No one has raised their hand. Mr. Mayor, I move approval. Second.

All right. And just in addition, you know, with the exercise equipment that's there for the trail, I see a lot of people that walk the trail and use the equipment, and it's an amenity, and they don't have the resources to go to a gym to utilize those same things. So it's definitely a benefit to the city, and thanks for all your staff keeping it up and running. So we have a motion and a second. Roll call. Ms. Teston.

Vice Mayor McPartland. Yes. Council Member Nunn.

Yes.

Council Member Matthews. Yes. Council Member Dodd.

Yes.

Motion carries.

All right. Thank you. Anyone have any committee reports? All right. Leads up to Item 10A, Public Hearing, Consideration of Ordinance Number 0-26-02. Mr. Stokes.

THANK YOU, SIR. AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF SEBASTIAN, FLORIDA, AMENDING LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, ARTICLE 4, LAND USE COMPATIBILITY TABLE, INSERTING PUD MIXED USE CLASSIFICATION, ARTICLE 5, ZONING DISTRICTS REGULATION TO INCORPORATE A NEW SECTION 54-2-5.17 to be known as mixed-use PUD zoning district and amending Article 20 to incorporate a new section 54-4-20.8 to be known as master plans providing for severability and repeal of laws in conflict herewith, providing for codification, providing for scrivener's errors, and providing for an effective date.

All right. Thank you, sir.

Ms. Bernard. Good evening, Council. This is the second and final reading for mixed-use PUD. You had the first reading on April 22nd. And I will get to the applicant's presentation here in a second. So it's Ordinance O2602, Land Development Code Textual Amendment Mixed-Use PUD, second and final reading. This is an applicant-driven amendment. Currently there is not a mixed-use PUD code. In the original annexation agreement with the Graves Brothers it was determined that mixed-use PUD zoning would be needed. The existing code does not currently have a mixed-use PUD classification. And so as you can see in your packet, you'll see that all of the shalls and the changes that were requested on first reading have been implemented. to, as you can see, to the 400 in the shelves that you had requested to be placed in there. And with that, staff recommends approval of ordinance 26-02 for mixed-use PED. In addition, I know the applicant is here to make their presentation. All right.

Thank you.

All right. Good evening, Vice Mayor and Council Members. John Clark with Urban Design Studio on behalf of the applicant, the Grace Brothers. I want to start off by thanking staff. Alex Bernard and Jim Mann have been a great asset to work with during this entire process. And I also want to thank Council on their assistance on this agenda item as well. And with that, we are here to answer any questions that you might have on the changes and what the agenda item is for you.

All right.

Council, any questions for staff or Mr. Clark? Not this time. Anyone from the public wish to speak on this project? Anyone on Zoom?

No one has raised their hand. All right.

Anything to add, Ms. Bernard? Nothing at this time. Thank you.

All right. Council will close the hearing. I'll make a motion to approve Ordinance O-26-02. Second.

Any further discussion?

I just want to make sure that the fact that it was presented as an application from the Gray's Brothers property, this ordinance applies to all property within Sebastian. It was done as a result of a condition in our annexation agreement on the Gray's Brothers property that they use a PUD mixed use, but the actual ordinance is not specific to the Gray's Brothers. It applies to all property in Sebastian.

That's correct.

Okay. I just want to make sure.

Thank you. Roll call, Ms. Tester.

Council Member Nunn.

Yes.

Sorry.

Council Member Matthews. Yes. Council Member Dodd.

Yes.

Vice Mayor McPartland.

Yes.

Motion carries.

All right.

Thank you. The accept item 10B, consideration of ordinance number 0-26-10, petition for voluntary annexation, second reading. Requests win. Mr. Stokes.

Thank you. An ordinance of the City of Sebastian, Florida. Providing for the voluntary annexation for land consisting of 382 acres, more or less, located south of 69th Street, east of 82nd Avenue, west of 78th Avenue, north of Sebastian River Improvement District, Ditch C-8-E. providing for the extension of the corporate limits and boundaries thereof, providing for severability, providing for conflicts, providing for codification, providing for scriveners, errors, and providing for an effective date.

All right. Thank you, sir. Ms. Bernard, this is you again.

Good evening again. So this is the second reading for the Crestwin request. The applicant is Coulter Group Acquisitions, and the property is located south of 69th Street, east of 82nd Street, west of 78th Street, and north of Sebastian River Improvement District, sub-lateral C8E. The acreage that they are looking to annex is 382 acres more or less. And they're requesting to come into the city limits of Sebastian. And as you can see, this is where the subject property is located. the same as it was during the first reading. No shift, huh? No shift. No shift. All the same. And it is consistent with our comprehensive plan. This was the conceptual plan that was submitted to our office and is part of this packet. And in addition, you know, we've looked at public facilities and services such as transportation, water and sewer, stormwater, and recreation. Part of annexation criteria is that you have to look for compactness, continuity, and consistency with Florida statute. And all of those are met in accordance with Florida statute 171.044. Some of the public benefit will be increased tax base, having city development standards, and recreational funding. And with that, staff recommends approval of the request to annex 382 acres known as Crestwind. And I believe the applicant is also here as well.

All right. Would the applicant like to comment on anything?

Good evening. Wendy Tuma with Urban Design Studio. I would just like to add that it's been delightful to work with staff and Nothing has changed since the first hearing two weeks ago, and we look forward to a positive vote tonight. Right. Thank you. Oh, and we have the team if you have any questions. We have our civil engineer, our traffic engineer, and Colter Holmes is also here tonight. All right.

Thank you. Council, any questions for staff or the applicant? All right. Anyone from the public wish to speak on Ordinance Number O-26-10? Anyone? Yes, sir.

Yes, Richard Gilmore, Sebastian. It looks like a great annexation. The one thing that I would have you guys think about is, again, When the staff looks at this, they say, well, the ad valorem tax is $1.775 million it's going to bring in. If we just take the figures that we get from the tax assessor and 64% of those people are going to be homesteaded, that figure is not going to be right. And we're not going to be getting $1.7 million in ad valorem tax. So I don't know how that affects whether we annex or whether we don't annex. I would love to see Sebastian grow the same way that we are right now, having the same type of open grid type pattern so that it's not a bunch of gated communities. As long as we keep our DNA the same, then Sebastian can grow and still have the same down-home feel. And that's my concern. But I think also we also have to be concerned about what if. And if this thing passes, we're going to be in a hole. That's my two cents. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Anyone else? Yes, sir.

Here I go again. Jeff Hamilton, Sebastian. Once again, just like last time, I'm definitely not in favor of annexing outside the borders down there. I know Mr. Nunn is in favor of anything to control the borders and our appearances, which is a contradiction from a couple years ago when he called a special meeting to try and stop the construction of three homes already permitted on Roseland Road. And that had to have cost us some money with a special meeting and city staff.

Sir, can we just stick to this one here?

So anyway, all right. Now... Instead of going for things like Crestwind, why aren't we still trying to work on some of these developed, getting in some of these unincorporated areas? Right now there are five properties being marketed along Indian River Drive and just south of Schumann, totaling 141 units for future multifamily. They already have bought... Sebastian, in one way or another, they're going to impact us. Why aren't we trying to get that going and push that issue with the state legislature and everything else? As for Prestwin, someone last time made a comment about grove owners having a right to repurpose or resell their now-followed graves due to the Asian virus that killed the groves. Some are being proactive, working to find solutions so that our citrus industry recovers at least a portion, and we will need that land still instead of homes. Guess what? Those buying the parcels to rezone are taking their own business risk. It's called speculation. They assume the risk. If they don't get what they want, it's upon their backs and wallets. With this council and pro-development votes, they know they'll get a huge return on investments. There's no reason the taxpayers have to help build their profits. The unchecked development westward and southward across those lands are destroying our ecosystem. As a child in Broward... We had storms each summer afternoon from the Everglades, and it's the same ecosystem here. They built up in the late summer afternoons and made it out across the beach into the ocean. By the time they went six or seven miles west of 441 down there, those storms only made it to 441, leaving the other seven miles east dry. And that's what we're going to end up with if we keep adding all these areas and allowing people to build. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Anyone else from the public wish to speak? Anyone on Zoom?

I have one hand raised on Zoom.

All right, bring them in.

Miss Herman, can you hear us?

Ms. Herman, it looks like you're still muted. Does he look like he's going to unmute?

They're still muted.

All right, we'll give him another 10 seconds. Anyone else from the public wish to speak on this? Yes, sir.

Good evening. Chuck McLean, 1765 Laconia. One of the things the speaker before me had talked earlier about the need to get off septic. How do we get the expansion of our water and service services if somebody doesn't pay for it? I can answer that. The developer, Coulter, will develop the extension of water and sewer lines into a section of Sebastian that's not currently being serviced. Not on the taxpayer's dime, it's on their dime. That starts the process to have the opportunity in the master plan that's being developed by Indian River County Utility Department to take that system and run it further west It goes north, it goes across 510, it fills it in to the gap that runs into the city of Sebastian and allows people to get off septic. That won't happen if you don't approve things like this, because as Mr. Gilmore said, the ability to have the necessary funds could be a questionable point of the future. But at this point, there is an extension that can be provided by the applicant tonight. I'm somebody that's in the development business. I've developed in this city for years, for decades actually, and proud to have been the first development that extended the water and sewer lines for the Collier Club development. That wouldn't have happened without somebody taking it on the dime to have those lines extended, and that's part of what happens when we do approve projects such as the culture one, which I think should happen. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Were you able to get Mr. Herman off mute?

Ms. Herman?

Are you there?

Yes, we can hear you.

Great. Sharon Herman, Sebastian, sorry about that. You know me and technology. I just wanted to say, number one, thank you for all of you for your service. I think it was an awesome ceremony that they had yesterday. And then I'd also like to urge you to vote for the annexation, not because I really want to see so many additional homes and residents in our area or in our city, but because I'm not naive enough to think that if you vote no, that those areas won't be developed. Every place that wants to be annexed into the city of Sebastian is still going to be developed, whether they're part of the city limits or not. The more control we have, the more influence we have, the better we can manage our city as a whole, our services, our traffic, and everything else that goes with it, our stormwater especially. Honestly, I trust y'all much more than I trust the county for deciding what can be built and where. The way we're growing right now, it wouldn't surprise me to start seeing hotels popping up all over the place. but not within the city limits of Sebastian. So the larger the city limits are, the more control we have. Thank you all for everything you do, and please vote yes for this annexation. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you.

Anyone else from the public?

No one else has raised their hand.

All right. Thank you. Ms. Bernard, any summation?

I have nothing further to add except that staff recommends approval of O-26-10.

All right, thank you. All right, I'll close the hearing. Counsel, how do you wish to proceed?

Yeah, let me, Mr. Mayor?

Sure.

You know me, I like to talk. I just want to make sure that the annexation of this property just to build these houses may not make sense for Sebastian, if you want to know the truth about it. However, I was pretty intimately involved in the 2,000-acre annexation of the Grace property. I was very much involved in the development of the developer's agreement, spent a lot of time with an attorney and a city manager arguing about things. There was a vision for that property, quite frankly, and that vision was pretty simply to do something different than what's been done here, something that people thought they were going to do in traditions, for example, and that didn't work out. Not big like traditions, but multi-use like traditions like they thought it was going to be. And the vision was that we have within these 2,000 acres a mix of housing. There's a requirement that they do a certain amount of workforce housing and a certain amount of commercial, a certain amount of many things. And that that was all going to be tied together with a town center. And that town center hopefully was going to be something that those residents, whether they lived in a gated community and part of it with house values over a million dollars, or if they lived in an apartment in there that they were going to be able to go to and shop. It makes a lot of sense to me to look at this almost from a regional perspective. We're talking now about directly attached to that property Several hundred houses that sell in a higher value mark. I mean, what they're talking about here in this particular property are higher value properties. That is an incentive to the developer of that 2,000 acres to really think about building that town center. And I think I mentioned in a meeting a couple of meetings ago, a town center is not $2 generals at the entrance, okay? That's not the vision that we had originally when we were doing that, and it's not the vision we have now. So the last two annexations we've done, one on one side and one on the other, actually lend themselves to an enticement to have whoever develops that 2,000 acres do more in the form of town center-based commercial. We can't look at all this stuff in a vacuum. It's not this 400 acres and this 200 acres and this 2,000 acres alone. And in fact, the city manager is in the process now of working, and he's going to talk about this I think later, about working through what the council asked him to do at the last meeting, trying to come up with some type of a breakdown. And I think I even mentioned to the... Alex, maybe we should think about defining what we think a town center should look like to try to force the issue on that kind of thing. This is part and partial to the planning process to do this. I read so much social media about how stupid the council is because we're doing this stuff. We're not stupid. We're not really smart either, but we're not overly stupid. We have done some of this planning stuff. We may not have done it the way a lot of people want to see it, but we have talked about it and we've done it. And this is part and partial to that, to put that together. 82nd Avenue is going to be the main thoroughfare in which sanitary sewer services are provided to the city of Sebastian. That main line is going to come straight up 82nd Avenue into the city of Sebastian. And this is just one more piece of the... puzzle on 82nd Avenue because it runs right along 82nd Avenue. You can't forget all that stuff. 77th Street was going to get paved and was going to get done. 73rd Street was going to get paved. It was going to get done. Even if we did nothing, it was going to happen. It was just going to happen. So I'm in favor of this because I think it's part of the overall picture that we should be dealing with. Thank you, sir.

Anyone else? I do. Yes, Mr. Nelson. So, you know, I love to read social media. The fear-mongering has been just crazy lately. Larry Reisman, Jack Wu, you know, they keep reporting things like, well, the county's only one home per five or ten acres there, and you're doing all this much larger than that. And, you know, sure, if they left it ag... But I've driven down 58th Avenue, which I'm sure lots of other people have. That's all agricultural property. Do you see one house per five acres down there? No. You see development upon development upon development upon development upon development. Why would you think that it would be any different? If this property was in the county, are you going to say just because it's ag now, they're not going to let them change it? Of course they're going to let them change it. They've let them change everything else they've asked to change. Why wouldn't they let them change this? So, once again... Believe us, I guess, or not believe us, we're doing this to control our city, to control our growth. I saw Jack Wu posted that Crestwind is a high-density development. I'm like, I guess he wasn't paying attention. Not a very good news reporter because I believe it's a very low-density residential development, not a high-density residential development. But, you know, I guess facts don't matter for reporters anymore. It's just... Throw the fear mongering out there. Throw whatever out there just to try to convince people with lies. I'm tired of lies. Like, listen, we plan a lot. We talk a lot about things. We may not sit up here and talk with each other, but we talk to the city manager. We talk to our planners about, you know, what are we doing with these things? How is this going to work? Where are we going? You know, does this work with our comprehensive plan? Does this work with what we want to do with the city? You know what? I would like to put the gate up around the entire city 25 years ago and not let anybody else in and keep it to ourselves. It's not legal. People own property. They're allowed to build. We can't take away private property rights. Unfortunately, they all get to have their rights, too. They get to do what they want to do. Yes, there have been times that I tried to get three properties I thought were a safety issue to not be houses right there next to an intersection. But you know what? The county blew that one years ago. But we're not going back there. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, or Mr. Vice Mayor. All right. Thank you.

Do you have a motion? No, we didn't get one. I'd like to make a motion that we approve Ordinance 02610. I'll second. Second reading.

I'll second that.

All right.

Any further discussion? No, sir. I mean, again... Just talking about the planning that we have done for, I can't even think how many years this has been going on. This is well over a decade of plans. And as far as the comprehensive plan that we've done, you know, and again, I'm not the brightest bulb in the basket here, but these guys are. And I think with the city manager as well as Ms. Bernard and the rest of the staff here, I have a lot of faith in them in getting these things done the way we would like to see it. So I'm all for that. Great stuff. So any other comments? Great stuff. We're very lucky. Yes, we are. Go call Ms. Testa.

Council Member Matthews. Yes. Council Member Dodd.

Yes.

Vice Mayor McPartland. Yes. Council Member Nunn.

Yes.

Motion carries. All right.

Thank you. All right. That leads us up to item 10C, consideration of ordinance 0-26-11, the police pension plan amendment. Mr. Stokes.

I give an ordinance of the City of Sebastian, Florida, amending Chapter 58, Article 3, Police Officers Retirement Plan, amending Section 58-70.4, Reemployment After Retirement, providing for severability, providing for codification, providing for the repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing for Scribner's errors, and providing for an effective date.

All right.

Thank you. Who's handling this, Mr. Ben? I guess it'll be me, actually. Oh, you? Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I worked on this. This is a situation in our... police officers pension plan and as you can see from the the language that we've amended here our plan already provided that a police officer member who retires can be re-employed by the city in a non-sworn position however there it was some language in some Kind of unrelated IRS private letters, which called for a better definition of what separation is. Mostly this was generated from the private sector, where especially companies about to get taken over, their people would all retire and then come back to work in order to make the company less profitable. Valuable for somebody to take over. Anyway, these letters don't really apply to the public sector, but it is something that the IRS seems to be hanging on to it by saying you've got to define separation. So our ordinance said a person could be reemployed after separation, but didn't define it. So that was taken to the police pension board last month. They opted to say 30 days. You leave for 30 days, that's a separation. There is no requirement. The IRS doesn't say you have to define it as a day, a month, a year. I think FRS has it for three months. They used to have it for six months. I'm not sure if it's still there. But every plan needs to define what separation is, kind of what IRS is wanting. At the recommendation of the pension board, we amended this in order to add in that 30 days, saying that a separation is defined as leaving for 30 days, and then that's considered separation. So it doesn't change the police retiree's ability to be reemployed. It just defines what that separation would be.

All right. The Lord knows we don't want to get in trouble with the IRS.

Don't want anyone to get in trouble with the IRS. Council, any questions for Mr. Stokes?

They wish to proceed on this. I make a motion to approve ordinance 026-11. I'll second that.

All right, we'll get a motion and a second. Anyone from the public wish to speak on this? Anyone on Zoom?

No one has raised their hand.

Any further discussion? Go call Ms. Testa.

Council Member Dodd.

Yes.

Vice Mayor McPartland. Yes. Council Member Nunn.

Yes.

Council Member Matthews. Yes. Motion carries.

All right. Thank you. If no unfinished business, leads us up to item 12A, new business, consideration of lease extension for aviation checkride specialists for one office space in the airport terminal building. Mr. Sabo.

Good evening, council members. Hopefully a pretty straightforward couple of items for us this evening. We are looking for a one-year extension to an existing lease for aviation checkride specialists. This is just for one office space in our airport terminal. This company provides airman checkrides and pilot testing as a service to our local flight school and other flight schools that provide students to come down here for what is a limited service to get some of these final checks and testing done. They are a good tenant in standing, well paid. They provide a wonderful service, and we are asking your permission to grant their request for the extension of a one-year lease.

Council, any questions for Mr. Sabo? Motion? I'll make a motion to approve. I'll second it. Anyone from the public wish to speak on this lease extension? Anyone on Zoom?

No, at this time.

Any further discussion?

Roll call, Ms. Testa. Vice Mayor McPartland. Yes. Council Member Nunn.

Yes.

Council Member Matthews. Yes. And Council Member Dodd.

Yes.

Motion carries.

All right. Thank you. Leads up to item 12B, consideration of lease extension for Connection Air LLC for one office space in the airport terminal building. Mr. Sabo.

Thank you, sir. This is also a one-year extension for an existing lease tenant that is in the terminal building for an office space. Connection Air operates a charter service that not only goes to the islands, they are also increasing their capability with some new aircraft and will broaden their exposure to this area. And they're also building some hangars on the northwest side of the airport for future expansion, but currently this is their base of operations for dealing with customers and handling the ongoing charter service, and the staff is asking you to grant their request for an extension of a one-year lease.

All right.

Thank you. Counsel, any questions for Mr. Sabo? No, sir. All right. Any wish to proceed on this? Item 12B. I make a motion to approve. I'll second it. Any further discussion? Anyone from the public wish to speak on this lease extension? Anyone on Zoom?

Not at this time.

Roll call, Ms. Testa.

Vice Mayor McPartland. Yes. Council Member Nunn. Yes. Council Member Matthews. Yes. Council Member Dodd.

Yes.

Motion carries.

Thank you. Lease up to item 12C, consideration of selecting infrastructure consulting and engineering for design and engineering services on the airport northwest infrastructure project under CSA...

2018 mr. Sabo. Thank you, sir a little different topic. We are requesting your consideration of Accepting this agreement this contract to make use of infrastructure consulting and engineering, which is a city retained firm and to proceed with the design process for the accepted FDOT grant, which was done back in February, to start the work on bringing in the new access road and the related utilities on the northwest corner of the airfield. This is kind of the third leg to the stool. We started this with Taxiway Golf, which is basically complete other than some paperwork at this point. The apron that will run adjacent to that is already in the planning stages, which will provide aircraft parking and extra access adjacent to Taxiway Golf. And with this in place, this design work that we're looking at tonight here by Infrastructure Consulting and Engineering will provide the inbound access road for the public and also the needed utilities of water, sewer, and electric. and allows us to begin to expand after all this work is done to begin to put out more ground parcels available for leases, to bring in new hangars, new businesses, and the like, and to begin to develop this portion of the airport and hopefully increase our airport's enterprise fund and get more self-sufficiency for the airport. Staff is for this, and we're asking your approval tonight to accept the engineering agreement, CSA number 18.

All right. Thank you. Council, any questions for Mr. Sabo? Oh, Mr. Benton.

Yeah, I just want to add one thing. It was brought to my attention that our math was incorrect under the funding source. So just to correct it, the 80% FDOT grant would be $119,455.20. And then the 20% airport operating budget amount is correct in the document. It's only the 80% number that was a little incorrect.

Did you say it was $119,000?

Yeah, FDOT grant 80%, $119,455.20. Mr. Mayor, I move approval.

Second.

Anyone from the public wish to speak on this matter? Anyone on Zoom?

No, at this time.

Roll call, Ms. Testa. Council Member Nunn. Yes. Council Member Matthews. Yes. Council Member Dodd.

Yes.

Vice Mayor McPartland. Yes. Motion carries.

All right, we accept item 12D, consideration of resolution number R-26-19, accepting the second quarter financial report.

Big Brian. Good evening. Mr. Stewart. Yes, in front of you, you have... Resolution R2619 along with the second quarter financial reports which have been approved and recommended by the Budget Advisory Committee. On the financial reports, revenues and expenditures appear in line. Cash and investment section, I made a little bit of changes to give you some prior year comparison. I added prior year cash column for you. And also I separated governmental and enterprise funds from fiduciary funds to sort of give you an overall look at just your governmental and enterprise funds. One item to note there, because the report is pulled on March 31st, the police pension fund does show a $1.28 million loss on that date. However, I will tell you that it has recovered since. That was a market dip that you see. You also have the capital project status report, along with the exhibit A to the resolution or the adjustments and amendments affecting fund balance and reserves on the budget changes. Most of those are your adjustments to close out projects, establish projects, and pay out the final payouts on projects, along with there's also a section in there for the new pension plan funding that was all discussed as part of the budget. I'd be glad to entertain any questions and recommend approval.

All right. Thank you.

Council, any questions for Mr. Stewart?

No, great job. Thank you. Any wish to proceed with resolution number R-26-19? I'll make a motion to approve R-26-19. I'll second it. Anyone from the public wish to speak on resolution number R-26-19? Anyone on Zoom?

Not this time.

All right, any further council discussion?

Roll call, Ms. Testa. Council Member Matthews. Yes. Council Member Dodd.

Yes.

Vice Mayor McPartland. Yes. Council Member Nunn. Yes. Motion carries. All right.

Thank you. Item 12E, Charter Review Committee Proposal for Amendment to the City Charter. Mr. Stokes.

Thank you, sir. As you know, pursuant to our charter, you commission a charter review committee every five years, and you did that back in December. They started their work in January, met a number of times, and they have come up with four proposals. proposed articles to submit to the voters. The way this system works is this is ultimately your decision. What goes to the voters is your decision. You can accept their recommendations, you can adjust their recommendations, you can reject them, or you can send it back to them to keep working. Although we have a time limit here to get on the November election, there's nothing in our charter that says it has to go on the next election. It just says. Once you decide what you want to present to the voters, if anything, then we will schedule it with the supervisor of elections. Right now, we have plenty of time for November. But the four proposals, I don't know if you want me to, I know I gave them all to you. They've been publicly noticed. We've had two public hearings with the Charter Review Committee, as called for in our charter. So this information's been out, but I can certainly highlight each of the changes if you'd like. or or not what where we go from here whatever you decide today if you propose any changes then it comes back to me I have to create the ballot language in the statutory form and everything and then bring it back to you you will still have to approve it by ordinance which means you will still have you'll you will see this at least two more times on a first reading and second reading before it ever goes to the supervisor of elections

Seventy-five words or less for each of them?

Seventy-five words or less. That's right.

Good luck with that. Well, the majority of the council, they have served on the Charter Review Committee. I know Mr. Dunn is intimately familiar with everything that goes on in the Charter Review, and it's a very important board. And, you know, I'm perfectly happy with all of the ones that came up because, again, all we're doing is you would write up the language, and this would go out to the voters to decide yay or nay. So, council, any other questions?

Is it sufficient, the fact that it was in tonight's agenda and advertised, does that actually count as a public meeting? Do we need to have an additional one?

No. Well, you will have two more.

Yeah, but I'm talking about do we need a workshop or anything? We're okay with that? No, we're okay.

The two public hearings was with them, then you see it now, and then two more times. So actually, it gets put on five public meetings. Okay.

So when do you want to schedule the first reading?

We are looking at, and I'm sorry, I think it was in the, we're looking at the second meeting in June and the first meeting in July. So June 24th and July 8th were the first and second readings, what we were proposing.

Do we need to reference the... first meeting in June in the motion or no?

No, no, you don't. It'll come and it'll be advertised the way all of our ordinances are advertised.

The first one in July is the 8th, right? Yes. And if we have any comments, do you want us to submit those to you prior to the meeting or just wait until we do the first reading?

Well, really the comments, you know, right now I need to know what to start working on as far as ballot language. So now would be the opportunity if you want any adjustments made here to discuss it among yourselves and decide what the product should look like so that I can then put together the ballot language. So this would be the opportunity. If you want to do it tonight, if you haven't had enough time with it, we can table this to the next meeting. And like I said, we do have plenty of time before the November deadline.

Well, I just had one comment. The council can't suspend anybody. The governor has to do that. And basically it says we removed from here, and I have to find it, we removed from here the fact that the council would hold a meeting today to determine whether a person should be suspended. That was removed from the charter. But I think that needs to be put back in that says that the council will hold a meeting and determine whether they should request that the governor suspend a member. Because I remember back during our troubles that we actually went through a meeting in which, interestingly enough, in which the council asked the governor to suspend three members. And it was voted on by two of the three to do that. But some way or another, the mechanism to ask the governor to do the suspension needs to be in the charter, I think.

Okay. So just to direct everybody, I believe we're on page three of this, and this will be charter section 2.08. Subsection D, what the recommendation of the CRC was, is to take that out, because I did mention to them, it said, you know, special hearing. The city council, with the advice of the city attorney, will hold a special hearing to consider the vote to remove or suspend a council member or mayor for violations. I educated them that that's not the power of council to suspend or remove. It would have to go to the governor. What you're proposing is that we leave that in there but adjust it to say that the council will meet as to whether to make a recommendation to the governor that a member is suspended or removed.

Well, I think it's only fair that if there was a determination that a member of the council that there may be a suspension required, that there be a meeting, they be able to present their evidence, the council votes, on whether they want to request that the governor do the suspension or not. Because I don't think that's an automatic thing. It's not going to go to the governor unless there's some action taken by the city to make that happen. We did request suspension of the governor, and he didn't do anything. But I think that, to me, it needs to be back in exactly the way you just said it, that basically the council has to meet. if they determine they can request that the governor do the suspension. Is that reasonable?

In reality, it would help me. I've been in this situation in other cities, and when something happens, a council member is arrested or something, and not knowing how to proceed, it's like, do I go ahead and reach out to the governor now? Do I put on the next agenda? Whatever. So yes, it would provide clarity if we had in there that in the event that something came up that suspension needed to be looked at, that it would come to council that you would make a decision to direct the matter to be sent to the governor. It would be helpful.

I'd like to recommend that we do that before we vote on it, that we think about making that change.

That seems to make sense to me. I have no issue with that. Until you'll be able to fix that.

And I have one more thing before.

I do, too.

I have a couple. Is there a legal definition of moral turpitude? I mean, we're basically saying, okay, if you're morally turpitude, we're going to do something. Is there a legal definition for that, or is there some...

I mean, I haven't done an exhaustive search of cases to see if anyone's tried to define it. I would suspect it's kind of like the old Supreme Court case on obscenity, one of those where the judges just said, we can't define it, but we know it when we see it type of thing. It is a term that's used a lot in this kind of setting where somebody is accused of something involving moral turpitude, but it doesn't...

We're adding in section 2.02b, we're adding in here that several conditions in which a person is not qualified to run for counsel if they flunk these things. And, you know, one is conviction of a felony or a misdemeanor involving moral trippitude or a breach of public trust. I don't know how to define that. I really don't know how to define that. And I know that it would take somebody to file a complaint to execute this. Anybody can apply to run for office. They can fill out the paperwork. And I don't think there's anybody who is going to sit down and very, very selectively look through that information and decide are they telling the truth or not telling the truth. They're going to process it. So if somebody else who is running doesn't like the fact that they're running and thinks that they've not been truthful, they have to file a complaint. That's the only way it works. It's not an automatic thing where there's somebody auditing all this stuff and vetting all these things. They can put any address they want down. They can say they live in Sebastian and they can live in New York. It doesn't matter. That happens in races all over the state. County commission races in which people from Tampa register in a county commission race just to make sure the primary is closed. That happens all over the place. For us to say this here is only for the purpose of someone saying, well, I'm going to challenge that under this moral trepidation clause. I just don't know what What would the court, how would they rule on that? What would the decision be made there?

I mean, it is difficult because it is defined differently. I've seen it defined differently sometimes. Is it just, would it just be moral turpitude or are we just talking like, you know? sexual offenses that fall into that, or could something like theft or breach of public trust fall under there too? Generally, I believe it's generally considered more in the morals clause area, where it's dealing with that kind of activity. Since you're sending this back to me on the other one, I could dig in and see if we couldn't define that better, if that's what counts.

This is one of those things where it might be simpler to leave it in there and let the world fall apart later in the future if somebody wants to challenge it, you know, and let the courts decide. But does that court decision lock up elections in Sebastian? Are we setting ourselves up for someone saying, I don't like this person, so I'm going to say they have moral issues, so I'm going to challenge them on that. Are we jeopardizing the ability for the election to move forward based on something nebulous like that? That's all I'm concerned about.

And that came up several times with the CRC where, quite frankly, they asked a couple times to put our city clerk in the position of deciding whether somebody qualified or not. And I reiterated to them numerous times that As you just mentioned, that's for an opponent or some member of the public to challenge judicially, and we would not do that. We would not put our clerk in that position. And quite frankly, the supervisor of elections isn't going to take that position either. We're all going to wait for a judge to decide this. And so if we left that in there, it is a common phrase that's in charters and contracts. There are morals, clauses, and contracts all the time.

I'm fine with leaving it like it is. I'm fine with that. I just was willing to understand how the thing worked, but I'm fine with leaving it like it is.

I mean, our friend Google does list it out. I mean, it says they vary by jurisdiction. There's crimes against the person, which include murder, manslaughter, kidnapping, and severe assault, crimes against fraud or dishonesty, which are perjury, tax evasion, forgery, embezzlement, and crimes against property, which is robbery, burglary, I can say that, and serious theft. So they do list out. you know, some great examples of what they consider moral turpitude, but it makes it very clear that it's up to really a judge at the end of the day. So I think we should leave it in.

I'm fine with these. I know Sherry has some questions, but I'm fine with these with the change to the request, have the meeting to request that the governor do the suspension. Okay. Yes, ma'am.

Well, I kind of have a, I don't know, I have an issue with B in all of its glory. The reason is that, again, who's going to determine, who's going to verify how, if they've been convicted of a felon but their rights have been restored, then they're clear to run. You know, so who's going to, in statute, I believe it's statutorily that the city clerk or the clerk of court, they can't get involved. I believe that's statutorily driven, that they can't verify, they can't get into who's going to what. So who's going to determine this or verify this other than the opponent?

That's all it would be left to, and that's what I explained to the CRC, is that this is something that an opponent or some member of the public would have to challenge in court.

And if you start looking at the different levels of... candidacy for different, I mean, from city council to commissioners to governors, this doesn't apply to those higher-up candidacies. And so, right, I understand that, but we're putting restrictions on our city council candidates that candidates for higher offices don't have those same restrictions. And I have no morals whatsoever. That's who it is. So we're talking a true politician, right?

It's not a moral turpitude clause on Congress, right?

No. But I feel like that we're going to get ourselves in trouble because there's things that are going to stop this without having it being said. And I just feel like that we're going to get ourselves in a box to where we're going to have to defend versus that this is what we're going to do.

WELL, AS FAR AS OUR SETTING THE STANDARD FOR WHAT WE WANT TO DEEM ELIGIBLE, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING HERE THAT CROSSES THE LINE. THERE WAS OTHER THINGS DISCUSSED. LIKE, FOR INSTANCE, THE CRC BROUGHT UP SAYING ANYONE WHO HAD DECLARED BANKRUPTCY. WELL, BANKRUPTCY BY FEDERAL LAW IS A PROTECTION. YOU CAN'T USE THAT AGAINST SOMEBODY IN A SETTING LIKE THIS. left that one out. Some of these others is a matter. There was a change in state law. I think you alluded to it as far as the restoration of rights. Now when a person serves their sentence and there was some question for a while as to whether fines or restitution needed to be included. But once they've served, they're entitled to have their rights restored practically automatically. And that was some of the reasons that we put a little bit stronger language in, saying that unless they're pardoned or that conviction is expunged, that that deems them ineligible. And I did a search. I obviously didn't reach out to every single municipality. There are a couple charters that I located which have more stringent language, like what we're proposing here. But, again, it's up to you. This is what the CRC wanted to go with. Actually, they had a lot more stringent language, which we kind of walked them back from. But it's ultimately up to council.

It's possible most of them.

2.2 B and C are the result of a single occurrence within Sebastian with a council election. And whether that's the norm or whether that's the outlier, to me it's the outlier. I mean, they've been electing councils here for a long time and haven't had these things. And I know that the whole thing is the result of probably a single occurrence that's happened on council and it was traumatic for the city. And people haven't gotten over it completely, possibly, and they're trying to prevent that.

There was an adage that they honed into us in law school, and it still applies to this day, that bad facts make bad law. When you try and create law because of one set of bad facts, it usually doesn't come out well. But again, this is the process that we have. CRC recommended these. You can accept them or adjust them or reject them.

Do you have what's currently in the, I don't remember what's currently in there, because there's something currently in the charter that.

It's here. Yeah, and I'm sorry, I should have, because I did the clean version, and I did the underlined. Anything that's not underlined is what's there now. I didn't give the original.

I think in the original that what is there now says it has kind of this. I don't know. Isn't this it on the opposite page?

I believe what's in there right now just says qualified elector. Yeah.

You know, I have a larger concern related to this than what we've discussed is how are you going to put this into a ballot, into ballot language? and be able to in any way bring this together into a single question on a small ballot. What is it, 15 words? 75.

75 words, yes, but it still needs to be comprehensive.

If you put 75 words down, people are not going to vote for it or they're going to say no because they're not going to read 75 words. We'll see what he comes back with. Yeah, so I would be curious to see what you're going to come back with, because honestly, it's a lot, and it's a lot to put into a ballot question. I don't know. I'll be curious to see what you come back with.

I mean, the ballot language would have to... It would only have to summarize the nature of the question. It wouldn't have to be extremely specific. But it does have to be enough that the person gets from the ballot language itself what it's about. So, yeah, there is an art form here, and it's going to be tricky. You're going to have fun with that.

How about if I propose that we strike the addition of 2.2 B and C? On this item. And so we keep the change to 2.2A, which extends the residency requirement to two years and a domicile requirement of 270 days and a 12-month period. That's on page 192 of the packet.

I would agree with that because it does say that they are a qualified elector, which means that they meet all the other requirements

And just strike the addition of paragraph B and C. We have the opportunity in 2.8, the council has the opportunity to hold a session. If they think someone has done something wrong, like a felony or whatever, they can hold a session and ask the governor to suspend them.

I agree with that because, I mean, then also during the qualifying period, how are you going to determine they're on the ballot or off the ballot? You only have a short period of time.

That is correct, and there's even an example very close to us where Vero Beach got into a problem. It was not a conviction. It was a residency issue. After the election? Yeah, they ended up having to have a special election and it cost them about $60,000 because they got it wrong.

If they're convicted of a felony, they're not eligible to run for office in Florida anyway.

That's what you're hoping for, at least.

Correct.

A qualified elector is that if their rights are restored. They have to be able to vote in order to be considered a qualified elector.

Yeah, so, I mean, we don't have to worry about that part of it.

That's what my point is, is that if they're a qualified elector, because that means if they were convicted of a felony, they had that charge, their rights have been restored or they're not a qualified elector. So what I'm saying is... This covers us for anything.

So may you add something, though, that a qualified elector does not... And that is the misdemeanor and breach of public trust.

That's not... 2.2a says they have to be a qualified elector in the city and actually has been continually domiciled in the city for a period of two years. And then the domicile requires presence with 270 consecutive days out of 12 months. So basically it says if they're a qualified elector, which means if the state has... I don't know what the term is, but if they... done away with their felony conviction, they were a qualified elector. And I don't know that we need to say for eligibility, if they've done a misdemeanor and so forth. I just don't know whether that's an eligibility issue for us.

I'm going to be honest, that B is there for... specifically for a misdemeanor involving a breach of public trust based on that single situation. That's literally what that's there for.

I understand, but we've had a single issue with that. Correct. People trying to write law because you're trying to write a speed limit law because one person speeds. Right. Are you going to be happy when you get the first ticket?

I mean, I get what they're trying to do, and I don't know that I disagree with you about striking BNC. I understand what they were trying to do, but that's what elections are for.

So we're all kind of in agreement. Section 2.02, just leaving A. Striking the B and C, correct?

I'm fine with that.

Okay. Yeah, I think we're all in agreement. Okay. And then everything else we're good with?

No.

Yes.

I'm good with the rest.

Listen, Jerry's got something else.

The other item was 2.08.

Yeah, the 2.08 change. I think re-add item D, but instead of saying the council makes that decision, just basically say that the council would hold that meeting probably under the advice of the city attorney, because the city attorney hopefully is going to be the one that somebody goes to and says, boom, this guy. And the city council would hold a meeting with the intent of either requesting or not requesting that the governor suspend them. Yeah, that too.

Okay. Okay. we got all that good i just have one more that i really just want to talk about and it's just me personally um but it's the compensation um one of the things i just want to say i'm very you know very honored that they thought of us and i did listen and watch those meetings um and they the discussion was was very honorable um however me personally i am i'm not serving for the pay i'm serving as a a community member that wants to serve their city and serve the patrons. So I'm with all the other things going on in our community, and we don't know in our budgets and where we're going to be. I'm very honored, but I'm not. I think this is the last thing on the list for us, for me personally, would be a compensation upgrade or a change.

Well, again, it goes out to the voters. Last time they tried it, it got shot down. So they came up and decided to put it on there. I want to acknowledge the meetings that they had and they came up with, and then it's up to the voters to decide.

I was going to say, I understand what Sherry's saying, and I don't have any argument with that. I don't feel this is about us. It's about future representatives, and I don't have a problem. what they've come up with, and I'll respect their wishes to do that as the committee.

Mr. Dunn?

They had a lot of really good reasons, and they had opportunities. I mean, there were people on that group watching the meetings, people on that group that wanted to do much higher dollars than this, which is not reasonable. Yeah, there were a lot of recommendations. I think it's a standard pattern that council members are reimbursed. I don't know about you guys, but I spend, going to some of these League of City meetings and the stuff that I go, I probably spend more money in gas than I get paid in a month.

Especially now.

Especially now, yeah. So it's not like, you know, this doesn't buy dinner. But I think they have some good reasons for it. And that's why we ask them to do this stuff. All right.

Any advances or emotions?

A consensus or a motion?

If you go ahead and the changes you made, if you just make a motion to approve these to be prepared for a ballot, then I'll work on the ballot language and bring it back on June 24th. All right.

Who wants to try?

I'm going to make it simple. I want to make a motion to make the two changes that we discussed that were given to the attorney. I'll second it.

You understand, right? I've got them all down. Anyone from the public wish to speak on this item? Anyone on Zoom?

No one has raised their hand.

Any further discussion? Roll call, Ms. Testa. Council Member Dodd.

Yes.

Vice Mayor McPartland. Yes. Council Member Nunn. Yes. Council Member Matthews. Yes. Motion carries. All right. Thank you.

Mr. Stokes, do you have any other matters for us today?

No, sir. That's it.

All right. Mr. Benton.

Thank you, sir. I have a couple items. The first item is in regards to at the last meeting, council had provided direction for me to work with staff in regards to bringing back an annexation plan. I, you know, and kind of thinking about it, and I probably should have asked the question that evening. However, I didn't. In discussing it and thinking about it with staff, you know, you all see community development has a lot going on. They've got quite a few request zoning things that are going to come back with the annexations that have been approved, developments and things like that. And I think it would be smart for us to get an outside perspective on this annexation plan. um to kind of come in and they could be a liaison for council they could meet with you all individually get your input meet with staff and kind of work through the process similar a little bit similar to how we did our our strategic plan um but do a little bit of an annexation strategic plan that would be um that would kind of provide full details and what our direction is going to be as we continue to go forward So I'm just letting you all know I'm planning to solicit an outside consultant to assist us with this. I will bring it back. It has to come back to you all for approval based on the monetary value. But I have spoken with Dr. Richard Levy, who was instrumental in helping us develop our strategic plan. He has a lot of experience in annexations and how they work and benefits and how we make things happen. So I've spoken with him today, and as long as no one has an issue with this tonight, I would like to have him develop a scope, and then we can bring it back to council for your approval or for your discussion and consideration at a future meeting. Does anyone have an issue with that?

Do you need a motion or anything from us to do this?

No, at this point you're not going to provide any monetary value or anything. I just wanted to make sure you all were in agreement with myself and staff in regards to having the discussion, and I'll provide Dr. Levy the direction to develop a scope. It'll be a pretty comprehensive scope in what we're going to do with this. I think it would be a great thing for us to have and provide some clear direction going forward. I'll also build on that, that I did have a meeting with the county today. Mr. Stokes and I went down a melt. We met with the county today in regards to the annexations and I did tell them we were going down this path, that we were going to develop a plan from the city and then we would at that point then bring that down to the county and have discussions with the county. So it was a productive meeting with the county today. And I look forward to continuing to work with them as we go forward down this process. I just made it clear that council had directed us to develop our own plan at this time, and then we'll get with the county at that point. Second thing, great news. I got a phone call today from Congressmember Herodopoulos. And back a few months ago, we had a meeting, and he introduced – the thought process to federal appropriations to the city. I've checked with people throughout the city, and I'm not sure that we've ever gotten federal grants. We get those from the airport, FAA, things like that. But as far as a specific appropriation, we submitted two from staff this year after our discussion with the congressmember. And one of them, he called me today to inform me that one of them has been included in the FY27 federal budget for appropriation. So we were awarded it. It is, you all will see it in this coming budget. We will show it as a budget item because we do this annually with how we handle our grants. We'll show it as a budget item, but it is for our police department for a new CAD RMS system. So that was great news to hear that from him directly today. And I just want to say thank you to Congressman Herodopoulos and his staff and also Kathy Copeland from the county. She's their legislative affairs director and she was also very instrumental with assisting us with the application this year and getting us kind of in tune with the process. So going forward, that'll be something that we do on an annual basis. We'll look and we'll have discussions as we go forward. This year was very short notice. We met with him and literally had to have something to him two or three days later because we were already at a deadline that we just weren't aware of. But we'll have those discussions from council that if there's larger items that you all want us to go for federal appropriations across the city, then we can do that as we go forward. But we'll discuss that in the near future on that. Last thing that I have... as you all know we have our incoming city clerk in the audience um and i i just want to say thank you to kathy for all the hard work that she's done as our acting city clerk um as you all know she she does a lot for for me and mr stokes but we haven't really had her uh the last many months um it's been a while um i think since what back november december that you all appointed her as acting city clerk. And she's fulfilled duties unbelievably in regards to the city clerk and also trying to keep us in line within the city manager and city attorney's office. So I just want to recognize her for the hard work that she has done in keeping everybody straight. And I look forward to kind of having her back on the city manager side and keeping us straight as we go forward. But great job, Kathy, and I appreciate everything you've done.

Thank you, Brian. I appreciate that. And I look forward to coming back and helping you guys. Anything else? I don't have anything. Thank you.

Mr. Dodd.

Just one thing. It shouldn't be a surprise that the members of the council have met with these developers while this process was going on. And I just want to say that... Some people might consider this to be good, and some people might consider it to be bad. But to the person, everyone I met with in this process has been exemplary, complimentary of our city staff. They have really, really, really emphasized to me how good it is to work with a group of people who truly cared about doing their job and cared about representing the city. And I think it's important that we recognize that that's there. I've heard the opposite about, you know, God, I hate to go down there and talk to those people or I hate to do this or I don't want to do that. But that's not, that wasn't said at all. They were very, very, very, very complimentary of the city staff. So, Brian, you can send some kudos to them. No money, just kudos.

Mr. Nunn. You know, it's funny. I heard somebody say one time, man, why does your staff, they're building people, they always get up there and they agree with the developers. I said, listen, it's their job. Their job is to make sure before that comes before us that they spend years sometimes working with these developers to make sure they meet our requirements. So when they get up there, if they get up there and they say, well, here's this whole thing and we don't want this, then they haven't done their job. So literally, they work really hard and close with all of these people. That's their job is to make sure they meet the legal requirements to be and do what they want to do. And so, no, obviously, I've been hearing some great things about staff lately as well. And so kudos as well. No money, sorry. Just kidding. And lastly, of course, you know, we all miss Jeanette up there on the second floor, but Kathy has definitely made this very seamless. I know she had a strong history in that department, so she definitely made this a seamless, I won't say transition, but transition period. But thank you for all your hard work.

Thank you. All right. Well, I hope you're going to continue to keep me straight, Kathy, you know, going forward, not just Brian and Mr. Stokes over there. And then again, just to add on about the comments that started with Mr. Glenn, who was up here talking about the staff in the city and everybody and all the work that they're doing. But I, too, have heard how easy it is to work with the city. And I mean, we're holding them to standards, but how fantastic they are to work with. And the only other thing I have to acknowledge is yesterday for Memorial Day, beautiful day. Staff, again, did a fantastic job. The TV crew that was out there, unbelievable, and the heat. And Bub, of course, always makes sure everything. And those ceremonies, they've gone much better. The sound system is basically flawless. I remember we used to be about every other word from the microphone, but that hasn't been in several years. Thank goodness. And that's all I have on this thing. Matthews? I'm good. Thank you. All right. Being no further business, we're adjourned. Good night.