Planning and Zoning - Regular Meeting

Okay, it is 7:01 and we'll call the meeting to order. Uh, Chairperson Hefner here. Associate Chairperson Wagner McGee here. Commissioner Willoughby here. Commissioner Villery here. Commissioner Mills here. Commissioner Wford, excuse. She's coming. She's coming. She's stuck behind the train. Okay. And Commissioner Davis. [clears throat] She'll be excused. Okay. Okay. invocation and pledge over here this time. [laughter]

Heavenly Father, we thank you for being everybody being here tonight and give us the strength and the ability to go through the uh go through the items tonight to make the correct decisions. We ask this in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Honiance to Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible. Do we have a community services director update? Uh I left my report. Um but I'll be I'd be happy to send it out. It's the same one that's going out to city council. Um the only minor plat that we had or the only plat that we had during the month of October was a minor plat and it was for one twoacre lot and that was done administratively. But the rest of the numbers I'll send out to you guys send out the city council with my apologies. Okay. Okay. Next item is citizen comments. Any person with city related business not on this agenda may speak to the commission. Time is limited to three minutes in compliance with the Texas Open Meetings Act. The planning and zoning commission may not deliberate on the comments. U personal attacks will not be allowed and personal matters should be addressed to the city manager during normal business hours. And we have no

no no nobody in attendance. So we can go on to approval of minutes from October 7th, 2025 regular meeting.

I make a motion to approve the minutes as written. I second it. One second. Okay. Uh, Commissioner Hefner, yes. Commissioner Wagner McGee, yes. Commissioner Villery, yes. Commissioner Wford, yes. Commissioner Willoughby, yes. And Commissioner Mills, yes.

Next item is under new business, consideration, and possible action. SD2025107 request to vacate the plat of Catwick Estates described as a reflat of lots 43 and 44 block three of Tower Road estates phase one located in the city of Santa Fe, Texas and recorded as document number 2023 053778 in the map records of the official public records of Galveston County, Texas. So the property owner of plat on October 3rd of 2023. It combined lots 43 and 44 of the Tower Road estates phase plat phase 1 plat which was approved by the planning zoning commission on September 3rd of 2019. The vacation of this plat will return the combined lots back into two separate lots. Staff does not have any objection to approving this request. There you go. [laughter]

School with both of them. Do we entertain any motions? I make a motion that we approve the vacation of Peteric estates recorded as document 2023 053778 in the map records of the official public records of Dallas County. [snorts] I second. Okay. Commissioner Hefner. Yes. Commissioner Willoughby, yes. Commissioner Mills, yes. Commissioner Wagner McGee, yes. Commissioner Wford, yes. And Commissioner Villery, yes. Motion passes.

Next item under old business, we have discussion and direction, review of chapter 8, subdivisions of the city of Santa Fe, code of ordinances in accordance with chapter 8, subdivisions, sections 3.4, amendments. We left off at section 3.2 plat approval required. So we can go forward until there until you guys are ready. So I read this three 3.2. Yeah. So, I read the um subdivision section and then I compared it to Fanville and the Iowa colony. And this I guess I'm I'm coming back to you to ask you this is procedure-wise. When you're doing your procedures, what do you see that keep coming up as a question that we need to address? because this to me was like I I thought our our book was good and then I read manuals and um like I don't know how to I don't know how to go over this manual when you don't know what's available to you because [clears throat] this hasn't been reviewed in.

So are we just going to continue to read them paragraph by paragraph? we can or if you guys would like me to gather some other surrounding city subdivision ordinances and show where we differ then we can do that also because I I I don't want to waste everybody's time. Not that it's a waste of time. I just feel like we need a more efficient way than like I'm as I'm reading through here like where it says on 3.2.4 the city of Santa Fe shall not serve or connect any land with water or sewer. My suggestion would be that it says WCID number eight. Okay. So basically, are we proofreading this document as opposed to getting to the part of the subdivision requirements that everybody wants to know about with the drainage and the lot size? Where does that come in at? Because this is procedure. And so if you tell us, hey, look, people, I'm I'm always having to reexplain this section, what sections in here are you seeing that are always creating a problem for you in city hall for us to address? The main issues that we come across that are constant conversation are what we're doing with our zoning reform change.

So by this ordinance, we're supposed to review it every two years. Like you said, it hasn't been done in a while. [laughter] So, it it could use a good two or three times over. Okay. I am completely open to the idea of pausing until I get you guys some other literature to see if we're doing it the most efficient way. But the biggest issues that we've got are in the zoning ordinance and it's the push back on the lot requirements and for as far as the depth and the width goes and some of the uses that are in there, right? But with this particular ordinance, we can't address that. Can or cannot cannot

because the topic of what we're supposed to be discussing here is the procedure, right? Okay. And like with the portion with the the sidewalks and some of the things along those lines that we do require in the subdivisions,

there's conferences that I've gone to where they show the difference in requiring sidewalks to be up front and not having any driveways up front and then they show the benefits to having them in the back. And those types of things are things that I would like all of us to take into consideration as we're going through bit by bit. then I'm going to introduce some of the other stuff. I just don't want to overwhelm everybody all at once, but I do think it would be beneficial to see what some of the surrounding cities are doing.

So, I I agree with that because you see what everybody else is doing. As I'm sitting here and I'm reading this, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, that sounds good." Until I went and read manuals and I'm like, "Oh, well, they said this, this, and this." And so, now I've started to read other people's. But um if you have I I would assume that you see this way more than what we do. So I just was hoping there's a more efficient way for us to do this. And I'm leaning on you to tell us what that efficient way will be. Yes, we can we can pause and regroup if that makes more sense to everyone and I can come back with a little bit better guidance. Okay. Um I think so. That's just

anything that's going to make it more efficient is good with me. Yeah. Yeah. And then some of this is just like your point 3.2.4, right? So we the city does have to approve the connections, but we don't provide the connections. So right,

just that kind of wording maybe that's just an administrative kind of wording change. Right. Now I don't know if it required by law has to go back to the council and etc etc. Yeah. Right. So it's going to be kind of a process. But is there a way where yourself or even we I know you talked about it in the last meeting. Um you know somebody can go through here and update this for us to approve it rather than us going through it and trying to find the the issues. Right. Make it more modern. Utilize a contractor or somebody that Well, isn't that what we're doing is getting this ready to go to a third party to to look at stuff? I mean, no, that was the zoning. That was the zoning. Yeah, that was a different

the quote for um the zoning change. Okay. But I don't know if that's the right answer or not. I'm I'm speculating here with you, right? Because some of this stuff is gen is generally just like for example, I was reading forward and you go to 3 something up here. Where is it at? 3.12 or um yeah, 3.14.3. You know, it's um development officer on forms provided by him, right? Well, We don't want to assume that the development officer is a him or her. So these are just kind of clerical things that we should probably have just adjusted before we go through it page by page. I don't want to get caught up in the him and her. I I don't either. I don't either. No.

Strike it. Just be done with it. Right. Because the same thing like development officer. What is that in Santa Fe? A what? Development officer. Oh, development officer. So by ordinance it's the city manager or his or her designate. Yeah. And so to me like just having that somewhere so somebody knows what that is is is good because you you looked at me when I asked the question you pointed over here, right? But it's actually not. That's not in that front part that we looked at last time. Just small things like that I think would be beneficial to bring [snorts] this up to a level where people people that are asking the questions I say people like citizens and us right can understand what it means. I thought that all the I thought that that was supposed to be

2.1.10 give it to somebody to do it. So maybe do we need to add that into the 2.1 the definition of the development officer? That's one of the things that is defined under the staff and the general definitions. So not this part that I'm in a separate ordinance farther up but if I just hand you this I can understand how that's confusing right and like you have to read it in its entirety. Mhm. So whenever we just pull out section, this is I believe section 8 of subdivisions or chapter 8. When you just pull it out, it

I think it makes it a little bit more difficult because of the definitions are in the whole book, not just this section, right? I did want to specifically point out uh this one was my favorite that a preliminary plat and all supporting maps shall be prepared in pen or pencil. [laughter] I just liked that one. Yeah, we don't we don't do that anymore. No, no, they came to me like that, [laughter] right? Send it back. Laugh. There was a time while we

Well, but the the other thing though that is I think in 3.2.4 is that it's contingent on if the site is in full compliance with the terms of this ordinance. So, when it says this ordinance is talking about the entire thing or just this section 3.2 or It's it's the end of 3.2.4 what Wendy just brought up.

It's it's the whole Well, it's the whole of the ordinances that apply to that that property that's being plotted, right? Not every ordinance applies to that plat, but it's the whole of the ordinances that apply to that plat. So if this came in front of us then we would we would be trying to make sure that it it whatever the water issue would be the [clears throat] water or sewer that it was in compliance with the whole of the ordinance that I'm not sure where what all that includes but before we could even approve it or not regardless of having WCIDA involved. So when I think you can see it in the

Sorry that question was probably really confusing. No, I I understand where you're going with that. So, in the plat vacation documents, if you look at the second page here, there's another page that goes behind that and it's an affidavit that has to be signed off on either by the health district or by WCID. You're talking about what what the the I can't say their last name. What the people we had to approve tonight? There's a there's a third page to that application and it's that an affidavit. So either the health district signs off on it and says that there's enough land and that they can get permitted for a well and septic or WCID8 signs off on it and says that it's accessible to their services.

Okay. So that's that's basically what we would be that that's basically how this would look in real life is okay. Okay. Thank you. But but Wendy, I'm not opposed to what you're talking about having some I one thing I would ask is how do we really answer this either how do we tell Georgia what we're looking for? Do we want to pick surround like I think that's why we need to go the other way because she sees

in her conferences that she goes to and her education that she does in training she sees more and then in the office here she can tell us hey look this this section is becoming an issue that we need to address. Mhm. I think we're trying to do it backwards. Don't disagree with that. Okay. But do you have a good and you don't have to answer this question tonight, but do you have a good idea or a way that we're going to flip it to to compare it the other way? Right? Because if we all leave and [snorts] we say, "George's going to bring us a new way." And then Georgia goes, "Damn, I can't I can't think of a new way." Right? And we're going to be back here in a month going, "Hey, we couldn't figure out the new way we're going to do this." Right? So 7 at night, Georgia [clears throat] doesn't have the exact answer. But you feel like you can

by 9:00 a.m. I should have a fairly good concept to bring back. [laughter] Well, you feel like you have a good idea of what you need to do. Okay. And that, you know, like I said, you don't have to answer it tonight. It's just a um I I'm with you. I don't This is It's difficult to read and we're probably not We're not comparing it. You don't do this at night for fun? No. Just me? No. I typically go I typically go through it like where it's applicable, right? So, for example, like section 39 is applicable tonight because we vacated a plat tonight, right? But I'm not going to I just read what's necessary for that agenda item. Read the

entire I understand that because the 3.4 that says we go through it every two years, that wasn't anything I had seen until we started with the whole concept of it and I was like, "Oh, no. I didn't read that part before because that's not where I go. I go to the preliminary or to the final and check those boxes off. And then when I saw that, I panicked a little bit. So yeah, I understand completely. But yes, I can get a plan together and bring some changes and options.

The the other um question and this document you've you've given us digital copy, right? I know that I have digital copy. When we're all done, is this going to get formatted into a way that is searchable? It's it's searchable online now. It is searchable online now, but what were we looking for earlier? The um livestock livestock requirements. You have to have a very specific word to be able to search it, but it's something with MUN code that we do when they do the cotification. So, it's searchable, but I can put some limits. Yeah, I can put some better keywords.

Just put a word in there and it just and there's a word for that and I don't remember off the top of my head because my PDF editor has it where you can convert documents, right? But there's a name for it and I don't remember off the top of my head, but that's something we should strongly consider is that way us, but also people who are looking here can type in what they're looking for and not have to go to page 15 of 56. Right. in city of angle. So there's an index too that there is but it's it's an index of the entire document. So the index itself is like four pages.

So not that's not a not a major thing. It's just something that I think we're putting this effort into it. Let's make it reasonably searchable. City of Angleton at one of the meetings I had gone to has a beautiful development guide and it has colors and pictures and gives you every answer. It's about this thick. But if you look at that first, you shouldn't ever have to call and ask a question because it has step by step and if your step doesn't line up here, it tells you exactly where to go. That's what I'm working towards. But who did theirs? We get all the way there. I need to make sure this is right first so I'm not recreating twice. Who did theirs? Georgia.

I said, who did theirs? They have a huge staff with an extensive background. We don't have that in all areas of planning and zoning. So, their staff was able to put it together and they were so kind to send it to me in a PDF form in a word form so that we can start making it ours. So, I'll I'll show you guys that. I'll send it to you so you can look at it. But that's how many people are in their city. Well, Mandville's growing up leaps. It's big. Is M. Is that part of Angleton? I thought that was No, Mambville is Oh, she said Angleton. Did you say Angleton? Okay. I'm not sure how many people [snorts] are there, but is it bigger than us?

I thought they were They got plant money. It is significantly. Got it. Plant money. Yeah, that's what several people have tried to bring in from Texas City because a lot of everybody who lives here, a lot of them work over there. Plant in the city. No, that's true. Um, out of room now. So, is that does that mean do we want to go through the rest of three or you want to postpone until she gets us more information? I'm good for whatever. I would No, I'm not good for whatever. I would rather we wait in waste everybody's [laughter] fine. I'm not a in an effort to be agreeable. I'd rather let's just hold off. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, why not? If it's going to be make it simpler. Yeah. Well, then I do have a question while we're going to just ask talk about you do. Well, 3.14.3 you have newspaper number one, mail number two, right? I just want to make sure like things like that are the same in our in this ordinance as it is in the other city ordinances. For example, 10 days prior is that the same that we use for everything else is ft the same that we use for everything else. It one point it was actually voted on that it went to 500 ft, right? But it was never changed in the ordinance. Y

so that needs to be updated. But if I remember correctly, it was voted on 500 ft for notification. It's still because Texas property code says 200, right? And that has to do with the filing of this the the what um the public hearing notice. The public hearing notices and the protest and that the Texas um code says that it's 200 feet. Yes. So, it's 500 feet for notification for purposes of the city of Santa Fe, but that doesn't change the 200 feet if you're going to protest it because that goes by the state of Texas. Yeah. But we if we go to 500 that encompasses the 200, right? So, we can we can overre promise but we can't underpromise. Right. Right.

Yeah. You're notifying more people of it. But then it makes a it kind of clouds it up as to who can be involved in a protest. Oh, I see what you're saying. I guess anybody could be involved in a protest, but your your your address doesn't count unless you're within 200 feet, right? Right. Okay. And I also found a really good guide from one of the cities that [clears throat] lays out exactly what counts because that was kind of it's kind of muddy in here, but that guide is also something I'd like to encompass in and I can show you guys that to you.

I don't and the the actual number other than state law, we have to do what state law says, right? the actual number of 200 feet, 400 feet, 500 ft. Like I'm okay with any of those numbers. Just let's be consistent across council, across the city where we do the same thing. Like when you do a notification for something else with council, it's 500 feet, right? Instead of 200 feet, it's in here. council doesn't necessarily have to do the mail outs for the public hearings, but with this with BOA and with the building standards commission, those I have to send notices on. So everything that's in line here is also in line with the state law. I just I just wanted to be consistent.

Yeah. So that way when somebody says, "Hey, I live whatever feet. How come I didn't get notified? But BOA says I should and PNZ says different, right? Let's [clears throat] let's just make sure that all three or four of the divisions of the government are following the same number. The number itself is not super important to me other than consistent, right? It is when it affects you. Um Georgia, what does it go from the corner or the center of the property? I go from all four corners and go out. And if a property is like in a a radius

I do a full radius around. I don't start in the center and then go around. I go from each corner and then measure out the 200 ft from there. And [clears throat] most of the time I over notify people. If it's like 2011, but it's still within Yeah. like a significant distance of whatever is going on, then I go ahead and send them the letter, too. Yeah. Okay. Especially if it's something that it's better to over notify them. Right. Right. And most time we don't hear anything. Most time people don't show up, but at least they've [clears throat] got the notices on it. Right.

Other than Manville and Iowa Colony in your circle that you work in, what other cities would you say that we're most comparable to that I can go read? Like I don't I don't want to read League Cities because we're not. No. You know what I mean? Like if if you as you're as you're doing this and you're talking to the other cities, which ones do you think are the most similar to us? We are our own animal. It makes it very hard. Yeah. Iowa Colony, reading through their stuff, I liked how they had a lot of their stuff written out and

especially their zoning ordinance where it tells you if you're in this section, your business can be open from this time to this time. You can have this much parking. You can have this much light. That's kind of what I'm going for. Um, but I will I'll read the rest of it in in its entirety and go through. But those two I think are are good ones.

So, what did you like about Angleton then? Or was was that just you just like their presentation or did you was there things that were a lot similar to us minus the plant part? I haven't gone through their entire subdivision ordinance, but their guide is what I really liked. And that wasn't anything I had seen before that I'm telling you, it's a 56 page packet of how to do life if you want to build something or improve something. And it is killer. Alleviate a lot of questions that you get. Yes. Okay. To just be able to pull that one page and say, "Here's all of your instructions." Yeah.

And that way it's consistent. But that's not something that we could reference until you get it to to us, right? Like because she was wanting to read it. Yeah, I can send it to you. Okay. And I mean, really? And since we already know what's going to be on the next agenda, I can send it out early and give you guys ample amount of time. Okay, just a side note from our discussion last time when we got hung up between urban and rural. It's the difference of 5,000 is the population. And I still assume that we are rural because in my head we were rural when I was a little kid.

We have cows still, right? And [laughter] and so in my head I still think it's a, you know, from when I was a, you know, a little kid. And so that's, you know, we're 15,000 people now, right? Right. So we're urban. We're urban. Unfortunately, we're urban. Well, what about So does the suburban, is it even a consideration? So suburban is another classification. Okay. Of So you would say that we are a suburb of Houston. Look at you. She just [laughter] wrinkled her nose up. So I I think that's what it was. LA, I didn't want to accept that we're not rural anymore. I I wanted to just say, "No, we're rural, but but we're not. We're urban."

It's really that I don't want to have to try to say that on [laughter] and it's not going to go down. It's only going up, right? So, and we have more than 2,000 homes. Mhm. So, we're urban. Was that the Yeah, we have over 8,000. That's the cut off. Was it like doors or whatever? Well, it was 2,000 homes or 5,000 people. That's the cut off between rural and urban. As much as I didn't want to believe it, okay, I think I've got my direction. So, so we're rubber knights now. [laughter] I'm going to stay in denial.

For we've been that way. Yeah. I don't even like the suburban thing. I don't know. It's just a different suburb of Houston. Suburbane is a suburb of Houston even though it's a massive city. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Do we have somebody who wants to entertain a judgment? I mean a a judgement. How much you going to pay me? It's a long night. Or just rub it off on me. [laughter] I make a motion to adjurnn. Thank you. Second. 7:30.

All in favor? I