Planning and Zoning - Regular Meeting

like to call the meeting of the regular planning and zoning commission to order

here here. Commissioner here. Commissioner Heman here. Here. Commissioner here.

We'll stand for the invocation and pledge together for our city. We lead us in guidance this evening. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Honor the flag. I aliance to the Texas one state one and indivisible. You have any comments about that? I actually have one. Um, where was it? Under the approval of the minutes from last the last meeting. I was the one that questioned the minutes from the January 9th meeting, not not Shannon. You see it?

Have any comments? I make a motion to accept the minutes uh with Janet's revision. as written. Second motion in a second. Roll call. Chairperson Davis. Yes. Vice Chairperson. Yes. Commissioner Wily. Yes. Commissioner Wer. Yes. Commissioner Mills. Yes. Commissioner. Yes.

Motion passes. Next, we'll have the community services director update. In your in your packets are the reports for February and March 26. The February report is in here. Since we didn't have a meeting last month, I'll go over the March report. We had 225 total permits. 16 of those were new residential homes. We collected five $55,57826 in fees. you completed 212 inspections. Um, and we approve, we didn't have any minor plats that were approved in February. We approved one minor plat for cru and that's going to be at the Centennial Oaks. Are there any questions on the report?

Thank you, Georgia.

It was just next we have citizens comments. Any person with city related business not on this agenda may speak to the commission. Time is limited to three minutes. In compliance with the Texas Open Meetings Act, the planning and zoning commission may not deliberate on the comments. Personal attacks will not be allowed and personnel matters should be addressed to the city manager during normal business hours. So, do we have any comments on items that are not related to this agenda? Okay, with no comments, we'll move on to old business discussion and direction review of the green infrastructure toolkit for Texas communities.

This is on our agenda from the February meeting. Um, if we wanted to table this and then revisit it after we go through the other items, you're more than welcome to. Or if we wanted to move it to the Let's table all of them. We don't have to wait. Move it to the end of the agenda. Okay. Okay. We'll do that. I'm just going to use your time.

Okay. New business. We have public hearing ZC122925. Request to change the zoning classification at 5330 Avenue in Santa Fe, Texas. Legally described as abstract 47 Broford survey part of outlot 287, Alaloma outlots from agricultural residential to neighborhood commercial. We'll open this public hearing at 7:05. I'll ask staff to summarize the subject matter of the public hearing.

Thank you, commissioners. The owner of the property at 5330 Avenue and has filed an application for a reszone request from agricultural residential to neighborhood commercial. The property was utilized as a commercial property from the time of construction prior to the establishment of the city which classified the property as a legal non-conforming use when the property was annexed into the city limits. However, under the terms of of the City of Santa Fe Unified Development Code or the City of Santa Fe zoning ordinance, when a lander structure of legal non-conforming use ceases to be used in such a manner for a period of 90 days, the use is considered as discontinued or abandoned and cannot be resumed. Due to the period in which the structure on the property has remained vacant without a commercial tenant, the commercial use has been discontinued and the property has reverted to zoning classification of agricultural residential. The property owner has initiated an application to reszone the property from agricultural residential to neighborhood commercial which will allow for commercial tenants to occupy the space within the constraints of the zoning ordinance. These limits have been provided to the property owner and discussed at length for future solicitation of business on the application that was provided in the packets. Uh the specific use that they had listed was for scientific services. Now, that may vary once they start soliciting um tenants based on what their rent and everything else set up set out for the market. Um there is some question about whether it was going to be used as an RV park that came in, but that would not be a use by right that would be allowed in this area. For clarification,

I'm trying to pull it up on the map. Yeah, go ahead. Okay, so we have this one. Well, it's all of them. It's all of them. Okay.

So, the rules allow each person three minutes to speak, but I encourage each speaker to be as brief and to the point as possible. If you're a group of persons wishing to speak to the commission on the same sub subject, please select a single spokesperson to present the information. If any speaker has any questions, please direct them to me. Um,

Jimmy Butcher. Thank you guys very much for having me today. Um, so my name is Jim Butcher. I am the owner of the property over there at 5330 Avenue N. And I just wanted to take an opportunity to talk about what the vision was for that property. Uh, the property had went vacant for approximately 6 months and that's what keyed this response when we went in to go in for a certificate of occupancy from one of my own businesses, storage. And what we wanted to do for this business is I wanted to move not only my real estate company down there, but also wanted to open the individual offices to other types of tenants like an electrician, plumbers, and stuff like that. I saw that the city had a great need for kind of smaller offices, which they currently don't have. That building has approximately nine different offices inside it at about 200 square foot. And that would be that's what I was thinking would be a great fit. So for those businesses in particular, they'd be able to rent the office and then park their say their truck in the back in a gated area that would protect them from having any issues of robbery or something like that. So that is strictly the intent of the property and why I'm asking to have that reszone back to neighborhood commercial.

Thank you. Thank you. Clyde Hart. He covered it. Okay. All right. I'm gonna skip the 646 South and go toraton Carpenter. Did I say that right? Yes. You said it perfectly. Congratulations.

That's a tough one when you see it spelled out. Good evening, Chairman Davis and members of the commission. My name is Kraton Carpenter and I along with my wife and mother-in-law uh live adjacent to the property in discussion and I'm here to oppose the request to resone this property from agricultural residential to neighborhood commercial. Uh this area is currently residential and agricultural in character. While there is already some non-residential activity nearby, including heavy truck operations, this does not justify expanding commercial zoning. In fact, residents are already dealing with traffic, noise, and safety concerns, and this resoning would intensify those impacts. The request is for a broad commercial category, not a single business, which means that the long-term effects on the neighborhood are unknown and cannot be fully evaluated today. Approving it also sets a precedent for further commercial encroachment along Avenue M, gradually transforming this corridor away from its current current residential and agricultural use. Traffic is another major concern. Avenue N is not designed to handle additional commercial traffic, including service trucks, deliveries, and customer vehicles, which raises safety risks for residents and children. In fact, the Braves little league football is just a stones throw away from Avenue N. Similarly, there are unanswered questions about buffering, lighting, and drainage that could direct directly affect the neighboring homes. Finally, re this resoning could appear to be spot zoning and it changes the designation of a single parcel in a way that is inconsistent with the surrounding area and primarily benefits the property owner rather than the broader community. I would respectfully ask the commission to explain how this request aligns with the city's

comprehensive plan and serves the public interest. For all these reason reasons, I respectfully request the commission to deny this resoning request. Thank you for your time and consideration. And I do have some letters. This one for everyone.

Yes, ma'am. Aaron Landry, are you speaking on this one or 646? This one. Okay. Aaron Landry. I have property at 5415 Avenue M, which is right on the corner around the corner. Um, I also am against this. Um, we already get a lot of traffic. We all know that Avenue M is a speedway. Uh, like I said, it holds water where it currently is. There's bad drainage. Uh, if this opens it up, they're going to be installed. Like he said, for vehicles that park in the back, that's going to entail more than likely putting up tall poles with lights. It's all residential. Um, also want to put in a note that this directly connects to next to the carpenters is my parents' property. Um, they've already done work back there. Um, without any communication or agreement, they tore down the fence that connects their property to my parents' property. and it's currently down. So, I want that in the books to to move forward and definitely against this

Richard Landry. Craig Landry Good evening.

I'm Craig Landry, lifelong Santa Fe resident. Uh my present residence is at 5215 Avenue O since 2000. Um the 5330 Avenue M resoning concerns. Um so my property is 220 ft from the the the property in the 5330. um my primary residence is. I also have a rent house on 24th and Avenue O which is approximately 90 ft from this property. And so my question is um how do the notices go out about the this reszoning? And um I didn't get a notice in the mail for either one of my properties

um and it's kind of upsetting knowing that this is happening without okay

knowing about it. So, um, I do have a neighbor that that got a notification that's across the street from me that's probably 350 ft away from this property. So, um, I'm going to start with that. I'd like that to be looked into and maybe cleared up or make some changes on that. Um, but my issues are the self-sustained drainage in the area is terrible drainage. 24th and Avenue has been backing up for I born and raised right there in the house I'm in 56 years and it's it's always backed up right there. um terrible draining. Um so my my property on 24th, which is across the street from the Lily, uh the Braves football field, there's almost like a a a belly in that property right there where it comes from the back side of 5330 um over to the back side of my my rental property. So that's it. We get a little rain, swing by and take a look. It's is terrible. Um with the the addition of what they want to do on the back of that property is is just going to add to that. Um, so I don't know what plans they have on drainage for that piece of property, but it's it's been it's been lowlying um holds water year round forever. Anyway, um so will shielded light fixtures be responsible when they do this um for the area since it is we'll be in in residential? I'm not sure the rulings on all that. I've never been through this. We're pretty much a a compound if you will. We're just covered. we're just surrounded by woods and um but anyway um what kind of work will be done? He kind of explained that earlier um about the business that's that wants to go in there. Um same thing as Chuck mentioned, Avenue in is already being damaged from the garbage trucks from the American Waste Repair Shop. Um this will be in addition to tearing up our roads in Santa Fe, which we've been fighting that for the 56 years I've been here. Um, how will this affect the

surrounding property appraisals down the road? I've never been through this. I have no idea. Is it going to raise my appraisal? Is it going to lower it? Have no idea. Um, so all of these will issues will affect the quality of life around us and would appreciate the planning and zoning commission to hear our concerns. Thank you all. Thank you,

Cynthia Carpenter. Okay. Is there anyone else was wishing to speak on this particular request for Avenue N? All right. With no others desiring to speak on this matter, I hereby close this public hearing concerning case ZC122 925 Marzoning classification for 5330 Avenue N and it is 78. Okay, we'll move on to number two. Consideration and possible action ZC122925 request to change the zoning classification at 5330 Avenue N legally described as abstract 47. Crawford survey part of outlot 287 altoma outlots from agricultural residential to neighborhood commercial because because there are a lot of people here for the first time. I just want to let you guys know that during the public hearing section of this the number one agenda item we're not allowed to respond to your questions. So I don't want you to think that we are not listening or we don't care. We just discuss it under section number two. And it'll be the same with the next agenda item.

How long was um how long was the building vacant before you lost the zoning and it reverted back to AR? About six months. And were you in the business? Was there someone there prior to that? We did have a tenant in the building. Do I need to come up to my Yeah, sure. Come on up.

The building was vacant for 6 months. We've had it for put up for lease. Uh usually trying to find a single tenant for the property. Uh it's been that way. We bought it from Alita uh a long long time ago. So, you know, that building was vacant, had a church, so on so forth. But in general, it's been vacant six months. So, has it always been um it was neighborhood commercial? No, it's always been AR.

Yes. From the time it was annexed in, it's been this building the entire time since it was built and established. And when the city was established and this was annexed in, it was the exact same way that it was built as. And it's been the exact same way since then. Okay. Sitting vacant caused it to become reverted to the current district that it's in. Okay. So, if we change it from AR to neighborhood commercial, but without any drawings, so we don't know what's going here. Any one of these can be put in here. Anything that's on the left side. Yes. And to And you haven't submitted any drawings or anything. Tell us what's going there.

Drawings for the buildings been existing since 19. No, but like what's going to go? Sure. Well, I would say that we uh submitted for the neighborhood commercial, which is a pretty defined list as far as uh like um small businesses that would be able to

Right. But this like for example, you could put a convenience store there with neighborhood. I I'm I'm absolutely uh my whole premise is to simply service small businesses and a a convenient source. If if we wanted to define a specific list that you guys would like, I'm okay with that. What we're trying to do is get this property from sitting vacant and making an actual uh productive use of property. At this point, I have no intention on putting anything high traffic in there. I understand the propert I I understand the area. I used to own an American Fitness and Martial Arts right there on 646 before the hurricane. So, I'm very familiar with the area.

Right. But after this becomes neighborhood commercial, you could decide a week later to sell it and the next person who comes in could put a convenience store there. That's what we're trying to prevent. I some sort of clarification of what we're going to do here in this building. Sure. And I have no problem providing that. Absolutely. Whatever way I need to provide that, I will provide that. Uh if there's some type of deep restriction that could be done that would uh limit that scope of what what's able to go in there that would surpass my ownership, I'm more than willing to do that.

Okay. I mean, obviously not the I'm not the biggest fan of spot zoning, right? Um, which is what we're being asked to do in this situation. As long as I've been here, that building's been here.

So, the city of Santa Fe annexed this. They took on that responsibility when they did. I also understand that there's people that own properties that have value, commercial property that have value that they want to use, right? We're taxing them as such and we're trying to get tax dollars in this this business. So, this one's tough because there are lots of houses that are nearby and there's a a big long-standing business. It's across the street. CAD currently does have it listed as an office building and is taxing it as an office. As an office building, this one or the

this building right now on CAD which was provided in the package as an the city has been treating this as a commercial property for since the city annex the you know annex the property. The the difference in the two is that the commercial the neighborhood commercial standards haven't been imposed up to this point. So if the zoning were to pass, then there are other effects that go into place as far as the screening, the lighting, other things that have not been put into place. The protection part need to get put into place, right, which definitely the citizens have brought. We, you know, they need they want to be protected also, right? And absolutely. And I want to comply with anything like that.

For example, tonight u some gentleman brought up maybe some damage that happened on the property lines. You know, I don't know if you've talked to those people or not, if you had any conversations with them, but maybe that's something that you could take to them. The the general idea that that from my understanding that was from the storms when the trees fell. So, what part of the plan part of the plan? Hold on one second. Part of the plan is also to replace the whole fence. I'm just telling you the plan. This is what we have the loan for that we're going for. So, did you ask to take the fence down? Hey guys. Guys, nobody nobody gave you permission to take my gave apologize for

Okay. Okay. Thank you. I humbly apologize. Okay. You never said you would put it back up.

So, I I don't know. It's it's interesting concept, but I if I had to make a decision as the person solely, it would say we should stand the city should stand behind what they've done for the last 30 years. If it's a new property or a new construction, that's a different story. But the city of Santa Fe annex this property in as it sits today. Nobody's trying to redo anything. So if again, we're starting we're setting a standard either way. It doesn't really matter, right? If we've got to set this standard in opposition, fine. But we need to enforce that same standard to other businesses that are currently in Santa Fe that have the same problem because there are more that have been annexed in and are in the middle of neighborhoods and that are in their middle of people's communities that are going to try and grow or renew their buildings or or do things like that. If we're going to we just need to set a standard in my opinion. So, as part of our zoning code, when they try to increase their footprint or take those steps, that's when these things get brought up is when they try to do that is then they have to make that legal non-conforming legal.

And so, that's why these things keep popping up at random times because since I've been here, all these really fun things that never happened before started to happen. Is it an in 2009? It was annexed as an original part of the part of the original city. Oh, that was even longer. Oh jeez. 78 I think January 78 was annexed. 78 is when when Peewee started his business really no and Alita Woo had DNA fabricating

back then. My main concern is reading the ne uh the definition of u neighborhood commercial district or area. Is that um you're saying sir that you might have some plumbing electricians or something to that effect that would rent or went one of your office spaces. Um it states and I'm quoting just a prayer couple paragraphs and sentences. No outside storage of goods or materials are uh is allowed screening above buffering standards are incorporated to reduce the negative impact of the district land use. Um what if one of your plumbers has maybe six or seven vehicles with all the equipment and stuff on it and everything else? Where are they going to are are they going to be allowed to park in the back which is you know are are they going to be storing equipment on the property or that you know that you know that's my concern is that what's going to be in there and are they going to comply with this?

I would imagine that I would be responsible ultimately for their compliance. Uh the idea would be that they would be able to park their cars. Now, if they had seven or eight, that probably be, you know, that's not a small business. I'm looking for more simple offices in particular. Um but I do understand your concern. Um you know, it's like a plumber. He's not going to be able to store all of the stuff in his office. He's either going to have to have some place away, right, or a building in the back or something. So, so the property is an acre and a half. So, if there are buffering requirements, we there's more than enough space to do the buffering that would be required.

It doesn't say I, you know, that's my concern. Everything else, you know, it's just that I would like to see maybe who's going to be there, you know, and you know, before we continue before I would like to continue with this because what we've had some problems in the past with people saying well I'm going to do this and next thing you know it turns around and they do something entirely different.

Yeah. So this is really a catch22 situation in the sense that I can't achieve the loan to fix up the property until I get the variance. Right. And we've been lied to repeatedly.

I And I understand. I don't know if there's any middle ground as far as uh I I honestly don't know. This would be the first time I've ever dealt with this situation like this with any of my commercial properties. So, you know, I um if there are any suggestions, I'm open for it. If he as it as it stands right now for clarification, if he goes from agricultural to neighborhood commercial and this property is zoned as neighborhood commercial and he sells it two weeks later, can a gas station be put there? A convenience store because that is allowed by right in neighborhood. Can a commercial parking lot be put there? Anything on that left side if the property were sold could in theory Yes. and be put there.

Yeah. It's just such a horrible I mean it would have to come here first. Sure. because you can't get your CO or have any of your permits issued for construction or anything unless you've got your corridor development permit first. So, if a commission were to deny that corridor development permit, then no building permits could be issued. So,

does the corridor development permit apply on a non traffic highway? I thought that was only the thoroughfare. What I'm getting at is that we have no way to protect the land here, the land owners from the future of what can be put there because I thought the corridor development only applied to our major thoroughfare highways. And this is not it's not even within distance of the major thoroughfare. And this part right here that says commercial parking lot that is becoming the thing If you own some land, we'll park some big rigs on it for $170 a month.

We'll give you Wi-Fi, too, while you're there. I mean, we don't have a lot that are back inside because we have the same issue with the property on PE like where his and everything else is because that whole chunk of residential properties back there is also zoned. It's neighborhood commercial. Most of those are built out. I think it only applies with the new state law. I think it only applies to the major thorough affairs. We can't enforce it any other way.

That wasn't just with corridor. That wasn't necessarily corridor development. That was um the materials the materials but you can't take the corridor development standards and apply them to where I live in a res. area, but there's still the standards that apply as far as the screening when you're a commercial business against a residential property that would have to be examined to make sure those are in compliance.

You have to bring it up everything would have to property wise have to come up to code, right? So your your your entrance and exits, your your parking standards, like your actual how many spaces, handicap. Remember we similar problem with um right. But what I'm saying if you decided to build a gas station here and followed the rules, you could put a gas station next to the Landing family. You could if we do this.

Yeah. I'm not disagreeing with you that the zoning says what it is. Would would there be anything that if say if it was brought back up when they go to apply, say somebody buys it and they're going to apply because they want to build a gas station, right? So is there anything that would tie our hands from voting against that? No, because it's allowed uses right use by right. So then we would have to allow it. Correct. I mean, yeah, it's it's the opposite of what we had a contention on the last time or a few while back where we took a house

that was on a piece of property and then somebody wanted to turn it into a commercial building and we had similar issues, right, where that was a a home that was AR and then they wanted to go to NC because they built it out and they prepared their commercial property and they didn't meet the standard. Okay. I mean, not there's not another type of zoning we can do that would allow it, but be more restrictive as to what

can he come back as a so now what can you do as far as you're in AR and you come and apply and you show what you're going to build here just like when the developers come in and they show us this is what I'm going to do and we approve it. based on what you just put on that drawing, not a blanket free-for-all. Right? So, if we deny this zone change,

I don't want him to have to start the process all over. I want him to be able to get an answer one way or the other. So, can he can he do a request to build what he's trying to build inside AR and get that approved based on knowing us. What are you going to do? And we're going to approve it for that or get if you want to make it office spaces, we'll approve it for that. But I mean, you had conditional use originally, right? It expired. It wasn't a conditional use. It was a non-conforming or non Yeah, a legal legally non-conforming use, right? But I guess that's

Yeah, the zoning rule is kind of tie our own hands. I mean, if we can do a conditional use permit, I'm I'm fine with that. It's not if that is a way to do that. It doesn't sound like you're trying to It's not It's not for him. It's to protect for the future, which which I understand. Right. The issue is the AR doesn't allow much outside of agricultural use or living there which the conditional use. It functionally makes the property obsolete. Obviously, it's an office building. So, right. Which is not his fault, right?

But it's been that way since since it's been annexed by the city in 1978. Any other comment? Yeah. Do we have any other comments?

Sure. Come on up. Yeah, come on up. Ask questions. as long as you address the chair one. Yes. So, Councilman Mills brought up an interesting point that the building's been there what forever. when it was approved forever. And I'm just wondering if when that was approved forever ago, if the area was more rural with fewer families and now that the families have come in in that area, I'm wondering if um that might change the perspective of that. So, to answer your question directly, the area was never approved, right? The city of Santa Fe wanted tax dollars and they came in annexed that property, right?

There's no approvals with that. It was when the city was established in 1978. The building was built in 1973. So it was when we had Algoa, Alaloma, and Arcadia. So it was in completely separate cities before the city of Santa Fe ever existed. So yes, it was very much a different layout of the land. Right. So I'm just wondering if with more of the families moving into that area now if that might have an impact on your decision. That's my question. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. What do y'all think?

I know what to think. days like super rigid as far as months like how many days it's been vacant without a seal for over 90 days without a commercial seal. The rule is 90 days and it's been vacant for six months is what she's saying.

Yeah.

So what's the pleasure of the commission? There's no restrictions home. Okay. Um, I make a motion to deny the request to zone change classification for 5330 Avenue in Santa Fe, Texas, legally described as abstract 47 L Crawford of outlot 287281 Altoma Outlots from agricultural residential to neighborhood commercial.

I second it. We have a motion and a second. Roll call, please. Chairperson Davis. No. Vice Chairperson Wagner McGee. Yes. Commissioner Willie was for tonight. I made a motion to deny.

Yes. Commissioner Wilford. Yes. Deny it. You want to deny it? Commissioner Wills. No. No. No. Commissioner Billy. No.

Can Can we Can we make a motion for him to do what you suggested to bring back more data? You can make a motion. I think or can you make two motions? Well, that one's done. That one's over. It's three to three. Well, it's a flop. So, it can go to city council now and they can decide. So, maybe just suggest you bring more stuff for city council. Ultimately, it'll go to city council with a tied vote and not have to make a decision. So,

unless another motion is made. So, can we suggest that you bring more like more plans as to what you want to do council? Sure. I can bring the bank plan that I did and I wrote a business plan for the bank, so I'm more than happy to bring that. Absolutely. Does this go to council next week? It is set to. If we need to pull it, we can. Oh, it's going to go to council now. We tied. Yeah. I mean, unless there's another motion that y'all can put on. Unless there's another motion that we agree upon. No, I mean it it tied. So, if there's another motion that y'all could

I didn't think you could make two motions. Well, that one I mean that one failed. Okay. Leave it to Todd. What What can we suggest for him to bring to in his favor and to prove to the other residents that, you know, in writing? I'm just here for information. I can't advise y'all on your book. I need to Google search you. Um, do you have suggestions? No, I made a motion to

We voted and we voted. It's tied. So then it automatically goes.

All right. So, it's tied. It'll go to city council and they can they ultimately have the say anyway. And that's the 16th Is that okay? Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you, sir. Good luck, council.

Okay, now we have a public hearing. Uh ZC 031626 request to change zoning classification as 6525 FM 646 South, Santa Fe, Texas. legally described as abstract 48. Al Crawford survey part of outlot 196 outlets from agricultural residential to neighborhood commercial. And so I'm going to open this public hearing at 7:45. Um same roles. Uh allow each person three minutes to speak. Um please be as brief as possible. If you're a group of persons wishing to address the commission. Please select a single spokesperson. If you have any questions, please direct them to me and I'll get the answer for you. Michelle Cantrell. Good evening. My name is Michelle Cantrell. I am a resident of Santa Fe. I am here tonight to expressed my strong support for the continued operation and reasonzoning approval of the local athletic training and mentorship facilities just talks. This organization has been an invaluable asset to our community, providing not only baseball and softball instruction, but also a safe, structured environment where young people can grow both athletically and personally. As a parent, I have witnessed firsthand the profound impact this organization has had on my son. He began participating at the age of eight and now at 17 he has developed not only as an athlete but as a responsible, disciplined and confident young man. The leadership and mentorship provided go far beyond sports. They instill values

such as teamwork, respect, perseverance and accountability. This facility offers a positive outlet for youth in our area, keeping them engaged in healthy activities and surrounded by strong role models. In a time when constructive environments for young people are more important than ever, this business serves as a cornerstone of community development. While I understand that concerns about noise and lightly increased traffic may arise in any neighborhood, I believe the benefits this organization brings far outweigh the inconveniences some are claiming. The sounds and presence of young athletes training, learning, and growing are, in my view, a reflection of a thriving and engaged community. Most importantly, scripture reminds us of the importance of investing in the lives of young people. Train up a child in the way he should go and he when he is old he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6. This facility lives out that principle daily by guiding children not only in sport but in character. Jesus also emphasized the value of children saying let the little children come to me and do not hinder them for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these. Matthew 19:14. Supporting environments that nurture and uplift our youth aligns with these timeless teachings. I respectfully urge you to consider the significant positive impact this business has on local families and to support its resoning request, but most importantly to keep their doors open while the request is being reviewed and the business makes compliance accommodations. It is not just a training facility. It is a place where young people are shaped into better individuals and that is something worth preserving. Thank you for your time,

Kelly Raina. Good evening and thank you for your time. My name is Kelly Raina and I'm the owner of the facility on FM646. I'm here regarding our facility and the resoning process. I want to start out by saying that we respect the city's regulations and fully understand the importance of bringing the property into compliance. Our goal is to do this the right way and work together with the city throughout this process. We are requesting neighborhood commercial zoning because our use is low impact and consistent with neighborhood commercial properties along this corridor. Based on the city zoning map and surrounding properties, there are there are already multiple neighborhood commercial properties along the same roadway. We are simply asking to be consistent with what already exists. Our actual use is low traffic, scheduled, and community-based, which aligns more closely with neighborhood commercial than highway commercial. We also want to be transparent about the challenge we're facing. As a small community-based baseball and softball facility, the cost of bringing everything into full compliance all at once creates a significant barrier. Because of that, we respectfully ask the board to consider a phased approach to compliance, allowing us to address the most critical items first and then complete the remaining requirements over a reasonable period of time. We also understand the concerns that have been raised by the neighbors, especially regarding traffic and activity. We want to be clear that we are committed to being good neighbors. We are willing to spread out structured scheduling, limit the number of participants at any given time, and put

a clear parking plan in place to reduce any impact on the surrounding area. This is not an expansion into a larger or different type of operation. This is a small baseball softball training facility focused on local kids. If possible, we would also ask that the board consider allowing limited or modified operations while we work through the compliance process. Even a restricted level of use would allow us to continue serving families while making the necessary improvements. This facility means a great deal to the kids and families in our community. We are simply asking for a reasonable path forward that allows us to comply while still keeping something positive and valuable in place for them. Thank you again for your time and consideration. I would also like to note that I did um put in each packet a proposed due summary of our facility and what we entail. Um I would like to emphasize that we are a private appointment only training facility. We have one-on-one instruction and small groups from 3 to 12 players at a time. We do not have an open gym or unsupervised use. There are no large events such as tournaments, leagues or any of that matter held at our facility and we primarily serve the the youth athletes in Santa Fe. Sessions are scheduled within 15inute intervals to minimize overlap. Limited daily traffic due to controlled scheduling. Our peak hours are 300 pm to 900 p.m. primarily after school hours. We have very limited weekend use. for our parking, on-site parking for vehicles. Um, we have on-site parking there. There has never been any street parking. There has never been an overflow onto the street as long as we have been utilizing this facility.

Traffic is staggered to prevent congestion and um we do have two um driveways on the property as well. I also would like to point out um the community impact that um we strive to make on Santa Fe. Currently, right now, we have six baseball players and five softball players competing at Santa Fe High School tonight. We will leave here to go attend those games. We have 25 plus athletes from Santa Fe um from classes 2027 to 2035. We also um have coaches who are not only experienced athletes but also teachers and mentors of the community. Six out of seven of our coaches are actually school teachers. We are striving to help athletes work towards opportunities to continue to play and hopefully if they desire to do so can play at a college level. What our program builds on is the strength and success of Santa Fe's existing baseball and softball programs. We moved to Santa Fe, my husband and I, for one reason, and that was for their baseball and softball programs. We hope that we can continue to give back to the youth in our community by offering this opportunity for our children. We want to comply with the city and do everything that we can to make this a win-win for both parties.

Thank you.

Crystal Ga, did I say that right?

We done. Okay. Sorry. My name is Crystal Guida and I live approximately one mile from the Just Dogs training facility. I'm also the mother of two boys who have been involved with the Just Dogs baseball organization. My older son, Slade, played with the organization last year and my younger son, Steel, is currently part of the program. Our family has nothing but positive things to say about the coaches and the environment they provide for the kids. The dedication they show and the encouragement they give young athletes is truly meaningful for families in our community. a baseball organization where players must try out to earn a spot on the team. The athletes involved are dedicated to improving their skills and competing at a higher level of play. The coaches emphasize discipline, effort, and strong fundamentals while helping the kids grow both as players and as individuals. For my son, Steel in particular, this environment has meant a great deal. He has faced significant medical challenges, including a tumor in his throat that has required ongoing medical care. Because of this, He is physically smaller than many kids his age and has had to work incredibly hard just to keep up. Baseball is something that really means a lot to him and the encouragement and belief that the coaches have shown in him has made an enormous difference in an environment where effort, determination, and character are valued. Steel has been given the opportunity to feel capable, competent, and included despite the challenges he faces. The space itself is used in a structured way that's focused on skill development. Training sessions are typically appointmentbased along with scheduled team practices that gen generally only last about an hour. It's not used for large events or crowds, but rather as a place where coaches work with local kids in a focused setting to help them improve and grow as athletes. From my

perspective as a parent, this is a positive asset to our community. It provides kids with mentorship, structure, and a healthy outlet for their time and energy. In the time that I have spent there, I have never experienced the activity as disruptive to the surrounding neighborhood. The sounds that may occasionally be heard are simply kids practicing baseball and enjoying the sport that they love. It's also my understanding that requiring a change to the zoning could impose significant infrastructure costs for a small community focused space that serving local families. Expenses like these could make it very difficult to continue providing this opportunity. Programs like this are valuable for kids in our community and spaces where coaches invest their time helping young athletes grow are not easy to replace. I strongly support allowing this space to continue serving the children and the families who benefit from it. Thank you.

Thank you.

All right. This list has been exhausted. Is there anyone else wishing to speak on this topic?

Have your name and address.

Daniel Meyer, 11 1930 29th Street. I live directly in front of Um I do agree that they do work with kids and it's a good opportunity for kids to be able to get off the street and have an opportunity to put it into something very good. being directly across the street. We moved there 5 years ago and it was very peaceful and quiet and the noises have been quite significant and I have talked to them and they did lower for a little while but it got loud again and the aluminum bats are extremely loud and I'm on the autism spectrum so high pitch sounds absolutely just um can be uh very detrimental and so um I do believe that having a place for kids to go is absolutely absolutely amazing. And um I believe it would be great if this was a community thing that wasn't being charged, but it's something that is being charged. And so I'm a co-pastor, worship leader, and a youth pastor at our church. And so I understand wanting to pump into kids and helping kids. And I'm absolutely for that. And if going neighborhood commercial will allow more constraints on being with the sounds and the loudness and whatever is going on, I I'm okay with that. But if it's still going to continue to be loud, that that's very problematic cuz it's right whenever I get home from work and trying to relax and I sit in the backyard because I'm like, "Okay, I'll go in the backyard." The peeing is very loud and high pitched and um it's just that's my major concern is that right there. And there is traffic. Yes. And they've done a a better job of make sure that it wasn't on the street. Um, so these are the things that I have a main concern with is the the the noise primarily and having a fence tall enough or big enough

to be able to help protect some of the noise and all the people kind of in and out because to to a lot of people a group of 20 is not a lot but when you're kind of isolated you want to just kind of keep to yourself that that can be kind of overwhelming at times. So those are just my my main concern right there. So thank you for your time. Thank you.

Thank you sir. Anyone else wishing to speak on the subject? Hello. My name is Rebecca Meyer and I live at the front of the building, 11 1930 29th Street. And um I share what my husband um shared with you all. I I think great to help kids and all, but I am very concerned about the traffic and the noise. I get home from work, but I have to document a clinic uh notes and I'm hearing the the pitch of the aluminum bats and it's really loud. It's not peaceful inside my own home. So, it's really really disturbing and I I'm very concerned about my husband's mental health as well. So, I'm okay with it as well, but I really my question is how how will that be reinforced if it goes through um for us to to feel better and confident that um it's going to be managed because it's really loud and then the traffic they said uh sessions are like one hour but for us is the whole afternoon like one one group after the other. So, it's constant. And um and then um the the the cars, the lights at at night, it's just we I can't even sit in the front of my porch to relax. There's a lot of people. There's a lot of noise. So, I'm okay with that, too. But I really my quest that's my question. How would that be reinforced if it goes through that is more managed? Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. All right. Anyone else want to speak on this subject? With no one else desiring to speak, I hereby close this public hearing concerning case ZC031626. A request to change the zoning classification at 6525 FM646 legally described as abstract 48 from agricultural residential to neighborhood commercial and it is 802. Okay, we'll move on to item four. Request consideration of possible action request to change zoning classification at 652.5 FM 646 South from agricultural residential to neighborhood commercial. Okay. So the owner of the property, Miss Raina, um has submitted a request to reszone the property to from agricultural residential neighborhood commercial. A permit to construct the residential storage building with electrical services was issued in April of 2024 and the final inspection of the structure and electrical service was completed in July of 2024. In February of 26, an anonymous code enforcement complaint was filed regarding the noise being emitted from the property's commercial operation as an instructional facility for baseball and/or softball activities, specifically batting. Fire Marshall investigated the complaint and made contact with the property owner shortly after which prompted a meeting with the community services department to discuss the use restrictions of the agricultural residential zone. During this meeting, Mr. Mrs. Raino filed an application to reszone the property from agricultural residential to neighborhood commercial which would allow for other schools and instruction as a use by right. Currently, the operation is utilizing a crushed asphalt parking lot

for a can for restrooms, which would be required to be addressed at a later planning and zoning commission. Um, they could possibly request to have an extension to get the requirements up to the standards that they needed to for operation after the planning and zoning and city council addressed the zoning issue. Um but exceptions for corridor development standards and operational standards may not be voted on during this particular agenda item. This is solely for the resoning request. And the fire marshall is also here if you have any questions about the code complaints.

What was their complaint for? Was it the traffic or noise or combination or the initial complaint received from code enforcement came from you? I know I can't hear you on the recording. I'm sorry. Hey, what the other you said other schools and what is it? other schools and instruction which when you look under the NICS code it goes for like batting karate that type of thing

right but what number is that on our paper I only see schools paroial paroial how you say that oh other schools and instruction is got it sorry go ahead

good evening u the fire marshal court So, I received the initial complaint um for the address for the property in question. Um then it came in as a noise order as a noise violation. So, uh I never went out there during the time of operation or when the noise was actually being uh observed or heard by you know complainants or residents within the area. However, I did uh go out to the property. Uh I left my card there and I was able to make contact with the property owner and um we established a correspondence and started communicating about the concerns. And so that's kind of how they in initiated it. So I wasn't uh privy to witness it myself. So, I can't uh describe in detail what might have been heard or how loud or didn't take out a decibel meter or anything by that nature to really go into detail other than the complaints received to the city on behalf of the neighborhood residents.

Thank you. Thank you. question. But this commercial business popped up and nobody knew it was there. I mean, did they get permit? They did. No. Well, they they got a permit. It's right here. They got a permit for a residential storage building, which and the affidavit that was signed said that it was not going to be for commercial operation, which that's my biggest problem. kids involved, heartstrings. Everybody loves the kids. I get it. But the city is not enforcing what people are signing, right? Somebody came up here and signed this document, said, "I know this."

No, no, no, no, no. They said, "We're going to put in a storage building." Correct. And when it is not a storage building, someone filed a complaint and our fire marshall went out there. Don't say that. Don't act like nobody's enforcing it. Has this always been a storage building? Was it intended to be a storage building?

It in fact was intended to be a storage building. So when we bought the property, our um long-term goal was to build a home on it and we still are looking to that. So that's also why we're requesting neighborhood commercial, which um I discussed with the city. When we initially bought the property, we planned to put a building on it, and we have three children, um, two of which have played, our oldest son has played college baseball, our daughter played college softball, and we currently have a son that's playing at Santa Fe High School. And we have always had a cage in our backyard. So, my husband has coached um, kids for 20 years. We have a single cage in our backyard. And once the building was built, um, initially it was just going to be like a garage for the upcoming house that we were planning to build.

Um, we did start to utilize it as a as a um, space for our son and his cousin to go and hit. Eventually, we realized like, hey, this is, you know, this is a very good space. We're doing it out of our backyard. And so um we eventually got netting in there which then uh my husband is a coach for a baseball team and so we brought in a team. Um we had one team originally. We did not h plan we did not plan a baseball business or for this to be a um to even grow as it did. Um it started in 2020 when we were all kind of um the the employment was slow and we were my husband was doing this kind of as side a side gig. Um and so we once we built this building and we had one team, we were bringing one team in. Um then my son who is 27, he's a high school baseball coach at Hitchcock High School. Um once he got back from college, um he wanted to also pursue coaching. Um and so he picked up a team within our organization. U my daughter um is a graduate from McNe State University where she also played college softball. She came back and now she also has a team. So this is not something that we planned for it to be commercial right off the bat. Um honestly I think when you have passion for something um inevitably um you put everything you have into it, it can become something bigger than what you expected and that is exactly what has happened to us. Um these kids are everything. Um, our kids, um, my son and my daughter, um, were not the biggest players. They weren't the fastest and the strongest, but my husband has always been obsessed with baseball. And he taught them, um, if you go out there and you outwork everyone,

um, no matter how small you are, you can, um, you can make it, and they did. And that's a testament to who we are and what we do and what we teach. Um Crystal brought up Steel and Steel is one of our players on our 11U team and um Steel is a little he is smaller than his peers. Um but Steel is 6'5 on our baseball field. He is um he is one of the hardest workers that that is in our program and um we we embrace children like that. So, I understand where your concern is that when we built this building that we weren't planning on commercial, and we truly weren't planning on going commercial. We do still have the intention to build a home on the property. We do not even want to be here. We were hoping that our property would stay um residential and that we would continue doing home occupancy um just like my husband always has out of our own home. So, um, that's kind of how we got here today and that that's where we stand.

My my other question for Georgia City. Um, there's another commercial business literally across the street. Where are they zoned? Light manufacturing.

Light manufacturing. I would like to mention that um in the packet that I gave you um the zoning map, I kind of zoomed in on the 646 street from Highway 6 to 204. Um and on 646 South, um there are four neighborhood commercial businesses surrounding our our property. Um, and also with the um code, I'm not really sure exactly what this is, but when I spoke with I believe Belinda the first time, Georgia was not here. Um, we um we discussed that it would be a fitness and recreational sports um is what we would be changing it into and um that that does fall under neighborhood commercial. Um,

so, well, thank you. Be clear. I I my personal opinion is it's a it's a great thing for the neighborhood, right? Do you do you have this business somewhere else?

No. Um, I will say that we so when we started back in 2020, um, we reached out to Santa Fe Little League because they, um, had rights over the Jack Brooks Park um, fields. And so we kind of made a a a deal, a handshake deal with them that if we went out and cleaned up the fields and got them into use that we could use that as our practice area. Um, and we did and it went really well for about two years and then once the the fields were you were able to use them um a bigger organization, Baseball USA came in and they got rights over us on the fields and so we were kind of pushed pushed out of there. After that, we um we started to use um the Behringer Fields, the old baseball fields, and actually when the bid came up um with the school district, um we were going to apply for that bid and hoping that we could keep the the field as a field in baseball and and and be able to still utilize it for our team. And um unfortunately, we didn't have the funds to put down the deposit for that bid. Um and so therefore we were also removed from that field. So we have been trying to do everything we can in this community to stay here in Santa Fe. Um one of the things that that went against us, me and my husband, when we were trying to get our son and daughter um to be successful in something that they loved in a sport they loved, we had to travel to um uh Conroe. And so I drove to Conroe three nights a week for my daughter to practice to be on a competitive team. And our goal when we started the one team was that we were going to give kids here locally in in our area the

opportunity to play in and be in a sport that they didn't have to travel um two hours to go to practice. And so we're not here to um to fight against anybody. We're here to try and make this a win-win. We want to come into compliance and do everything right that we're supposed to do to be in compliance with the city. What's your address for the record? Uh 6525 FM646. I know that's the address. Oh, my home address. Um 10337 South Morning View, Santa Fe, Texas 77510. Thank you. If this is an inside, right?

Yes, sir. Just practice and Yes, sir. inside the building. There's no outside. So, we do we do um sometimes have agility training outside. It's It's not very frequently, but we do do agility training where we just have the kids um either run or or um do lunges. No baseball hitting. No hitting outside. Absolutely. It's all inside. Yes, sir. I've noticed in a picture that Yeah. Is there any possible way or maybe you could find a way to insulate the inside down the noise? It actually is insulated. It is. Yes, sir.

The uh the black that you're seeing on the wall is black paint sprayed o sprayed over the insulation. Oh, okay. So, I think the issue with the noise arises from when the doors are open. any of the insulation inside doesn't really matter because the doors are open. So if this would have been done by the procedure, they would have come to us and said, I either want to put in a fitness or another school and I'm on a highway and we would have approved it. We would have seen their drawings, we would have approved it. So either way, it's still a good thing to have here. We need to and you agree. I right

I think this fits perfectly a neighbor commercial especially on 646 and we gave I think that's the right thing. My concern is that we literally just denied the same thing for this for a different purpose maybe. So no sir this is on a highway. If Miss Raina sells this property tomorrow and they build a gas station, Andrew, I know on highway, if they build a gas station right there, right next to a lumber yard, the same people are going to come complain that there's a gas station. I'm just getting my opinion on it. Well, I'm do. Okay. The process. Okay. That's what I'm

Okay. So, we gave Jen Little nine months to come into compliance when they had the same issue because I don't believe I do this for a living and I talk to her probably two times a week and we bat it out because it's not an easy process to navigate all of the forms, all of the things you need to do crop and I'm very comfortable with the system and we're all we're like this and so I I believe that you have to give people a little bit of grace. Oh, I I do too. I think they should have time to make it right. 100%. I'm not I'm not opposed to that.

So, I'm I'm saying that if they would have followed directions and come here, they would have got their zoning change anyways because they are on a highway. Oh, I don't disagree with that. And there's that's the main two. That's kind of the main reason it makes sense honestly because even though this is you just said the opposite and a half I did because I didn't approve that because it's a neighborhood. But we want to set precedent in this city. That's my concern is every setting a precedent on the highway. This every time this company comes up here,

every time this comes to the PNZ, it's a a heated discussion because the city, and this is not Georgia, y'all y this is way before her time, right? The city either annexed property in or mishandled some paperwork or some things happened, right? And we always are just making exceptions around the city's issues, right? So, we literally just the city did not cause this problem. Who did? This lady standing right here. She signed the affidavit that said this would be a

storage building. Then she changed her mind, which is fine. People are allowed to do that. I also I personally did the same thing when I took over the salon. I didn't know I needed a permit for the sign. That's what I And I sit here. I'm fine with that. Look, what I'm saying is I want to give these things happen, but it's not on the city that we're here. I'm going to ask the same question. If Miss Raina sells and they come back and they want to put in a something that fits in right by use for NC there that makes other people unhappy about it, we're going to be in the same situation. Don't buy property on a highway. Yeah, I I disagree. I think that this is a a highway that should be

That's fine. Defaulted to agricultural residential. I just don't want you lumping this in with the other one because this is different. It's a totally different topic. But you just said a minute ago we did the same. All right, guys. Y'all can argue like I know. I know. You and I need to sit next to I love you, Wendy. Let me let me ask so much the right question. But I want to know how much the permits and things would cost her to do it the right way. Um so in 2024 it would have been a $250 permit to reszone it and then

and now it's significantly more because of our new permitting fees. Yes. So which I'm not happy about. Yes, I know. I know it's a different topic. I know. I love it all together.

So, it would have been, you know, $250 to request a zone change and then there would have been the well and septic that would have needed to go in for the bathrooms. Um, plus the cost of adding the bathrooms. I don't exactly know the cost of that off the top of my head. And then whatever parking requirements would have been required at that time. So, if she would have needed an exception for the uh asphalt rather than the concrete, that would have been up to you guys whether you gave that to her or not. And then whatever fencing for the screening is required. So, there would have been some upfront cost to it, but kind of where we're sitting at right now. I don't really know what the price is going to be with the way that things change, but likely it would have been less at that point in time than it will be now. Was the uh driveway on the highway already there or did you guys get that put in?

Both driveways were already there. Already there. So that's a that's a hurdle you don't have to go through. And we did we did uh do the asphalt though.

Anything else? No. Any other comments? I'd like to make a motion to approve the neighborhood commercial adjustment. Second. All right, we have a motion and a second. Roll call, please. Chairperson Davis, yes. Vice Chair Person, yes. Commissioner Willby, yes. Commissioner Wilford, yes. Commissioner Mills, yes. Commissioner Billy, yes. Motion passes. Just wanted to have conversation about it. That's all. So before we move on,

where do they go now to say I need to get in compliance? Does that go before city council or do they come back here? So this is first step. City council has to with both city council is going to have to do their first and second readings. And if at any point it fails during either of those two readings, then the motion dies completely. Okay. Um

D come back and reapply and we'll discuss the compliance and Miss Raina and I discussed this last week that we're going to have to sit down and get a whole list together of where we need to address the commission for coming into compliance and a realistic ask of timeline on things because And then that's when we approve or deny the timeline or as of right now are they allowed to continue or they're still shut down? Technically they are still shut down. So how quickly can we get them on the schedule?

That will be up to I can have a discussion with city council once I get a first reading. Where did he go? He's out. Okay. But next week I can have a discussion with city council because once I get a first reading, then something crazy happens between point A and point B. Generally things don't die on the second reading generally. But we could possibly offer a conditional certificate occupancy for operation at that point. Okay. And that would be approved by city council. So you kind of understand the process. Okay. Good. Good.

And they'll be on next week's agenda. City council agenda, right? Correct. All right. So, I guess now we go back to the old business discussion and direction. And y'all y'all don't have to stay for this. I'll just find it really interesting. But you're welcome to if you'd like. It is open. I just want to hear what we're here for. Watch the recording on Facebook. Every week we're on Facebook. Thank you. Thank you. Good night. Okay, back to discussion and direction review of green infrastructure toolkit Texas.

Gonna be honest. I don't have my copy in front of me. So if y'all ask me a bunch of questions, well, I slept through the recording. I watched it all today. I was very passionate about it. Tell us what you think, Andrew.

You know, I actually kind of do. I like the concept of it. I really do. I I think having more green infrastructure is good for our communities, right? And then encouraging commercial, encouraging the tax base. I do think it's a good thing to do. My concern is how do you incentivize it? Because ultimately, if as a non-b business owner, just a layman here, right? If I go to build something and it costs more money to do a green thing than it does to do a non-green thing, I'm not going to do it right. And so I would like to see how the cities can better incentivize people to do it because I think it's a good thing.

I just don't know how to do that. I don't I don't know how the city can do that other than like a tax abatement or something like that. But then that's really that's putting the burden on citizens and I don't want to do that either. So, this is kind of where um one of the discussions that happened during strategic planning. I brought up incentives. Um and I think incentives and tax treatment magically go together in people's heads, but there's other types of incentives that people can offer. And Wendy, you're going to love this part. So my idea for the discount on permitting fees is discount on permitting fees because I would be

much more inclined to offer a discount on permitting fees if you're going to install long-term infrastructure that is going to be sustainable for our community. Make your job easier. Well, not just make my job easier. Help D1. Help your neighbors. Help everybody else around you. Especially if you're going to install or whatever else. I I think the only disservice that I find is that we call it green space, whatever the title of it is, green infrastructure. Green infrastructure. People typically think green space. Yeah. And so they're like, "We don't need more parks. I'm not paying for more parks." Well, you going to pay either way. But that's not what this is at all. Right. And so hopefully people, you know, will go to the website. They can watch this link on it's on our website. Yes.

Check it out and see what it is. things that everyone can do people to do that because I do like like the idea you think about like giant retention pond with a fence around it that's not very like sightly right if you can come up with a a pond idea that has grass and trees around like that looks better than a a retention with a fence around it do they do the same thing yeah different ways I like it um I just that was my concern was how do you how do you incentivize people to do it because I think there is a cost associated with it and you know, tax taxpaying citizens shouldn't absorb that cost. I know other counties. So, I I do like the idea of lower like lower fees or

some kind of awards that can be given or everybody gets a ribbon. Trying to like I don't know what's your idea to incentivize people besides lower fees. Lower fees. Lower fees. All right. Well, we agree on that. Yes. But I don't know how we would implement that into our ordinance planning, right? I guess you're going to this is going this would go into like future ordinance.

So DD1 did an update to their development guide and I know that they've got like some new models that they want people to run to make sure that everything is being taken into account. So, with their new development guide and some of the studies that they're having run, with all of these studies that they paid a ton of people a ton of money for through grants, I'm hoping that we can start mitigating some of the issues that we've got because flooding is a huge issue here. It's not anything that we're ever going to get away from. But if we've got creative ways other than just holes in the ground, then it's something that long term we can try to work on because we are running out of land and green space. And

Oh, I agree. Let me be that guy at the podium over there and I come up and talk to Wendy and I say, "Look, I'm going to build a some new new stuff here and I want to put in a big rainwater collection bin. but my neighbor doesn't like it, right? Like these are real things that could happen, right? Like this the bin would be a good thing. Rainwater collection is a good thing. You know, mitigating flood risk is a good thing. But if my neighbor doesn't want it next to their house, right? They they have a complaint or a concern that they would bring up to us. So then it be like California where it's got to think about collect water well or like along people's property lines, right? If I were to dig a swell

this green infrastructure along along a property line that may not be appealing to somebody that may not somebody else may not like that, right? I'm not trying to put anybody on the board here, but some other people may go, "Well, that's it's going to collect mosquitoes or it's going to do whatever complaints they are, right? So, there's going to be people that aren't going to like this, right? Even though I like it, there's going to be people that aren't going to like it. So what's we need to figure out a way to middle ground that so that there is some rules around it or some guidance around it because the thing that Texas Agriculture put out is very broad like it gave you a lot of ideas gave you some like structure a little bit of structure but how do we implement that into an ordinance or a guidance for Santa Fe and I don't know the answer to this question this is not I don't expect you to answer this tonight just to think about when we go to put this into our into our zoning into our ordinances, right? Is how can we be clear on it so we don't have ambiguity in the future.

Yes. Because we're going to be sitting up here dealing with ambiguity in the future. I would hope so. I look forward to it every month.

Not anywhere in our area. Um, so one of the associations that I'm part of is the Gulf Coast Watersheds and it's not anything that I ever knew about before I started working here and Allen had sent me one time and I was like, I know what this is, but then you go and start listening and what really got me was the in the um slideshow was where they're talking about the feal matter in the water and you're like, "Wow, that's disgusting." But that's something that they address in the Gulf Coast wersheds and just what your dog does in the yard and when it rains and that comes down and how that filters through and that type of thing and it's not anything that you would ever think about or just pouring out your bacon grease in your backyard by the plants and how that filter filters through and does other things. So

well I mean you just throw something out of your window or pour something out of your car. you don't really think about it and you do something and there's not a second thought to it and then you start listening to all this other stuff and we all have to start thinking what the bigger picture of things is because when we allow a subdivision or development to come in and there's 2,000 extra people not giving anything a second thought we have to figure out how to mitate all of those things

so I'm looking for type of suggestions and we've got all different walks of life and experiences here that sit on the board and throughout the community. So, I'm looking for any type of and I want to see the people that come in as a business see this as an investment to get their fees reduced or those costs reduced, but also don't want to see people take advantage of it and go, "Oh, well, I'm going to get a free fee or whatever my fee is if I put in a few rocks and a and a cactus." Right? like there needs to be some rules around what what you have to put in as an investment in order to recoup your initial cost. Right.

That's what I was wondering if anyone else has already implemented anything like this that we can kind of take a look at. I'll have to find what city it is that I went to. I had gone to a planning conference and they've got an entire shopping center and there's a a creek that runs through it, but it's actually their drainage system, but they've got the rocks in there and it's got the whole water system that works its way through and it just looks like this beautiful peaceful thing. And then you watch this video and you're like, that's their entire drainage system that's doing that and it's not just a hole somewhere. And

it's not I mean like affiliated with any surrounding San Antonio. No, it's up near Dallas. For the life of me can't remember the name of it. I'll remember it later. I'll email it to you so you can look at it. Call me. So that's at midnight. Oh, I remember. No, but I'll I'll find the link for the the shopping center and send it to you guys. But I mean, they put a park next to it and put playgrounds and they've got restaurants that back up to it, but for that to be their detention, it's just Yeah, it's their entire drainage system, but it's a functional drainage system that you think you're sitting next to something nice and relaxing and it's actually drainage.

Well, my my suggestion might be to get some percentages that you would like to give like discounts or whatever, right? bring it up to us as a group council and then also run it by the lawyer and see what we're allowed to do because maybe some things that we're not allowed to do when it comes to discounting or giving. I don't know. I've been down that road before where we thought we could do certain things and then it's like oh comes in. I think it needs to be a I agree. Right. But can we give it so much? But can we can we legally what you're trying can we legally give like 100% discount if they do certain amount I'm not doing 100%

I'm just not just throwing an idea out there right like it what is the what are the limits I guess I don't know I don't know what they are right but incentivizing it depending on what they're going to do too 100% yeah like you do this much you get this much you do this much you get this much right like what is that structure you'd have to give us some guidance on what you think fits.

I think if they do a lot, it's worth a bigger discount, right? If they do a little bit, it's not it's not worth much. Um, but I don't know how much like if you have a $900 fee or a $2,000 fee, right? How much does it really incentivize you if you get $200 off, right? Like, so it's got to be something reasonably significant. Well, or if they if this is something that doesn't really something they're putting in that that requires ongoing maintenance, then we have to consider that because might want ongoing

I don't know what the average fees for a small business even are. If I said tomorrow I want to open a small business and I'm going to build new construction on like I don't even know what that would average go for. Is that Oh, there's a ton of questions. I don't know if you would get so tired of me that you would Right. Right. Exactly. So, I'm not trying to I'm not trying to do that tonight. I just would, you know, like I just said, if it's a $200 discount on a $2,000 fee, that's not really value add to that client, but I could see where in like this case, they don't have to mow a detention pond. So, you wouldn't have to pay for itself. Okay. Um I guess but yeah, you know, yeah, we could highlight that. That's for sure. Yeah.

And I think sharing that document with new people that are coming in that you share with us, right? That's that's good. encourage

somebody come by with any that was come up with a you know guys come up with a structure what you think would fit for our small town of Santa Fe that's getting bigger every day it is I incentivize them, like Wendy said, that's the only way it's going to happen. You're not gonna There will be some people that would do it willingly out of the goodness of their heart, but that's not the majority. It's kind of like recycling, you know? Yeah. I pay for recycling, but I don't get a lot of people aren't going to pay for I'm not even That's not what I'm going on. I don't

I'm saying some people are even though it's good for they put in the same Otherwise, they're not recycling. Anybody else got some guidance for Georgia? Suggestions for her? Just a motion to Is that it? Did you make it? I did. And it is second. We don't have to second it. Oh, I thought we didn't have the time. 8:37. just go out and find out what we bombed.