Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay, we'll call the regular meeting of the Planning Commission September 3rd, 2026 into session. Could we have a judge of allegiance? Thank you. Could we have a roll call?

Chair Clough?

Present.

Commissioner, Vice Chair Smith? Commissioner Gutierrez?

Here.

Commissioner Reeland?

Here.

Commissioner Rivera?

Here.

Madam Chair, we have quorum.

Thank you. Next, we'll go to the approval of the agenda.

Are there any changes to the agenda by staff or commissioners?

If not, I'll entertain a motion.

So moved.

Second. Roll call, please.

Vice Chair Smith? Commissioner Gutierrez?

Yes.

Commissioner Reeland? Yes. Commissioner Rivera?

Yes.

Madam Chair, the motion is passed.

Thank you. There's no consent decree, so we'll pass on that one. The next are the approval of the minutes of June 4, 2025. And I believe that Assistant City . Comment on those? We're having a hard time with those.

yes thank you chair clow and i appreciate everyone bearing with me this is a little complicated but i'm sure you'll be able to grasp it so at the june 4th 2026 planning commission meeting there were two votes to start the meeting just as the commission just did first was a vote to approve the agenda and second was a vote to approve the consent agenda and the minutes as originally drafted for that meeting properly reflected those votes at the august 6th planning commission meeting our last planning commission meeting when the item came up to approve the june 4th minutes chair clow recommended or proposed an amendment to modify the june 4th minutes and that was to strike the first vote And that was based on her belief that she stated at the time, and I've discussed it with her since then, that a vote to approve the agenda was the same as a vote to approve the consent agenda, and so you only needed to have one of those. So at the August 6th planning commission meeting, the commission approved the June 4th minutes with that amendment striking the first vote. After that meeting, Land Use staff raised this issue for me that that may have been an error. So I reviewed the June 4th meeting as well as applicable Robert's Rules. and learned that that vote was taken in error. So the first vote, the approval of the agenda and the approval of the consent agenda are two distinct items that do need to be voted on separately and need to be listed separately in the minutes. Based on this analysis, I would recommend that the commission pass two motions or vote on two motions. One would be to rescind the approval of the June 4th minutes with the amendment, which was the vote that happened on August 6th. And second would be a motion to approve the June 4th minutes as originally drafted with both votes listed. I'm happy to answer any questions.

I just wanted to point out that, which I discussed with Natalie, that years ago, when we started voting on consent agendas and agendas, The assistant city attorney stated that we just needed to, when we voted on the agenda, that approved the consent agenda, which I found puzzling because I always thought that it was relatively separate and probably should be done more formally. So we've been doing it for a couple of years the wrong way. But in any event, it's good that we're cleaning it up now.

Yes, thank you, Chair Clough. And yes, my advice at this time is that those items should be voted on separately. So going forward, I would recommend the commission to do that.

Is there a motion?

So moved, but I don't know what language to use.

So there will be two motions. The first motion that I'm advising is a motion to rescind the approval of the June 4th minutes with the amendment.

I move that we approve the June 4th minutes with the amendment and rescind the June 4th vote with the amendment.

And take a vote on that. Yes. OK. Roll call, please. Oh, second, please. Second. Roll call, please.

Vice Chair Smith?

Yes.

Commissioner McGee?

Yes.

Commissioner Gutierrez?

I'm going to abstain.

Commissioner Reland? Yes. Commissioner Rivera?

I will abstain.

Madam Chair, the motion is passed.

Thank you. And then the next motion?

Yes, the next motion would be to approve the June 4th minutes as originally drafted, which is the version that you have in your agenda packet.

So moved. Second.

Roll call, please.

Vice Chair Smith? Commissioner McGee?

Yes.

Commissioner Gutierrez?

I'll abstain.

Commissioner Reiland?

Yes.

Commissioner Rivera.

I abstain.

Madam Chair, the motion is passed.

Thank you. OK, now we'll move on to approval of findings of acts and conclusions of law. The first one is case number 2025-117. Chair Clow.

Yes. I think you may have skipped over the approval of minutes from August 6.

I did. OK. So now we'll move on to the approval of the minutes of August 6, 2026. And I have some changes to those. In the approval of the agenda, it has Vice Chair Peter Smith voting, and he did not because he was the chair that day. On the approval of the consent agenda, it's really confusing. It says there was no mover or seconder. to approve it, and there were no items, but then there's a vote. And I believe that there were no items on the consent agenda, and we just passed over those. So I think the only thing that should stay there is the statement that there were no items on the consent agenda. Then the approval of the June 4, 2026 minutes, which we've now changed. Anyway, it had Peter Smith voting, which he did not. The approval of the June 18, 2026 motion again had Peter Smith voting, which he did not. Any other changes to the minutes by staff or commissioners? Not all entertain a motion with amendments. Second.

Roll call please vice chair Smith. Commissioner mcgee yes, commissioner got the others on staying commissioner real and yes, commissioner Rivera abstain and chair the motions passed, thank you.

Several question yes. When I.

Decided over other.

We had to have a motion before we could make amendments. Is that just different under the rules that this commission operates under?

That is actually correct, Vice Chair Smith. There should be a motion, and then there should be a motion to amend the outstanding motion.

We should just remember that going forward.

OK, next we'll move on to findings of facts and conclusions law. The first one is case number 2025-11753, which is 1802, 1750 Cerritos Road, 1361 Forest Street, 3RD Berry Avenue development site. Any changes to those findings, facts and conclusions? Not all in the same motion.

Motion to approve case 2025-11753.

Second.

Vice Chair Smith? Commissioner McGee?

Yes.

Commissioner Gutierrez?

I'll abstain.

Commissioner Reland?

Yes.

Commissioner Rivera?

I abstain.

Madam Chair, the motion is passed.

The next is case number 2025-1176. 1802, 1750 Cerritos Road, 1361 Forest Street, and 3RD Ferry Avenue Special Use Place. Are there any changes to those findings and conclusions? I'll entertain a motion.

Motion to approve case number 2025-11756. Second. Vice Chair Smith.

Commissioner McGee?

Yes.

Commissioner Gutierrez?

Abstain.

Commissioner Reeland?

Yes.

Commissioner Rivera?

I abstain.

Madam Chair, the motion is passed.

Thank you. And next is case number 2025-11164. 1372 Boland Lane, and 2743 Boland Circle, and 2745 Boland Circle, general plan amendment. Are there any changes to those findings? If not, I'll entertain a motion.

Second.

Vice Chair Smith. Commissioner McGee.

Yes.

Commissioner Gutierrez.

Abstain.

Commissioner Reeland.

Yes.

Commissioner Rivera.

Abstain.

Madam Chair, the motion's passed.

Thank you. Next, there's case number 2024-9461.

1372 Boland Lane, 2743 Boland Circle, and 2745 Boland Circle rezoning.

Are there any changes to those findings and conclusions? If not, I'll entertain a motion.

Motion to approve case 2024-9461. Second.

Vice Chair Smith? Commissioner McGee?

Yes.

Commissioner Gutierrez?

Abstain.

Commissioner Reeland?

Yes.

Commissioner Rivera?

I abstain.

Madam Chair, the motion is passed.

Thank you. Next is case number 2024-7999, which is 2981 Galisdale Road development plan.

Any changes to those findings and conclusions?

If not, I'll entertain a motion.

Motion to approve case 2024-7999. Second.

Vice Chair Smith? Commissioner McGee?

Yes.

Commissioner Gutierrez?

I'll abstain.

Commissioner Reiland? Yes. Commissioner Rivera?

I abstain.

Madam Chair, the motion is passed.

And next, we'll move on to case number 2026-12048, which is 1202 West Alameda Development Plan and the changes to those, findings and conclusions. If not, I'll entertain a motion.

Second.

Vice Chair Smith? Commissioner McGee?

Yes.

Commissioner Gutierrez?

Same.

Commissioner Reeland?

Yes.

Commissioner Rivera?

I abstain.

Madam Chair, the motion is passed.

Thank you. And finally, case number 2026-12047, 1202 West Alameda, rezoning.

Any changes to votes, findings, and conclusions?

If not, I'll entertain a motion.

Motion to approve case 2026-12047. Second.

Vice Chair Smith? Commissioner McGee?

Yes.

Commissioner Gutierrez?

Abstain.

Commissioner Reeland?

Yes.

Commissioner Rivera?

I abstain.

Madam Chair, the motion is passed.

Thank you. And then number eight's consent. I don't know what that is. Is it the same as five? We'll move on to old business. Is there any old business? None. So we'll move on to new business. And I think at this time, it would be good, Maggie, if you could introduce our two new commissioners and then have each of them give us a little background.

Thank you, Chair Clow. Yeah, we do. We have some new faces. Welcome. We have Commissioner Brian Gutierrez and Commissioner Catherine Rivera joining us tonight. I also want to thank Commissioner Matt Embry, who resigned last month and so is no longer on the commission. So we have a vacancy that will hopefully be filling soon. And then just thank Commissioner Piper Capon and Guru Shatmarando for serving the city during their time. And welcome to our new commissioners. Yeah.

Do you each want to tell us a little bit about yourself?

Sure. It's a pleasure to be here. My name is Catherine Rivera. I'm a native of Santa Fe, born and raised here. I still live on the same street that I grew up on, but I have spent most of my career outside of Santa Fe in the semiconductor industry. I've been back since 2018 and have been immersing myself in the local politics here and the ongoings of Santa Fe, and I am thrilled to be here and serve my city.

It's nice to have you.

Brian.

Well, I can almost say ditto to Catherine. I live on the same street I grew up on also, born and raised in Santa Fe. This is a coming back. I have served prior on this commission, and it was a pleasure, so much so that I put in for it twice, although I remember telling Heather when she came back that, well, that stumbles over same rock twice deserves to fall. But I guess that's not always the case, we hope. Been involved in a lot of, I was in the Charter Review Commission back in 2013. That was a Really, my entrance into volunteering and doing things for the city was really an eye-opening experience. I spend a lot of time on the planning commission. I'm almost an empty nester. I'm the father of four, and so I have... When they graduated in 22, 25, and 26. So we have one left and time has freed up. So Thursdays once or twice a month is pretty easy right now. And I'm excited to be here and meet and see you guys. Thank you.

I'm looking forward to working with you again.

Welcome. Staff communications.

Yeah, Chair Clow, I just wanted to give a few updates on, you know, long range planning and who else here as well if anyone has any questions. We are, you know, there's a lot going on that we're working on. with the Planning Commission on our phase two of our code update. We are standing up a public committee to help advise the code update. We're doing it a little bit differently than phase one. In phase one, we had a community advisory group and a technical group. In phase two, we're just going to have one kind of citizen working group. What is it called though? Code Advisory Team, I think cat and yeah and so we're going to be will do a call for applications for folks to apply, you know we're looking for people who have. No technical experience with the code that could mean developer that could be the builder a business owner, you know somebody who anyone who just you know somebody who interacts with the code and. So we're really excited to see who's interested, you know in applying for that and we'll go through that process and we're going to you know we're still finalizing the assessment report, but that'll be the first big. You know work product that we're going to bring to you all for review. and to the public, and then, you know, but the plan is to kind of break up phase two into three chunks. We're really going to, we want to start with, you know, how things get approved, which, you know, is our approval processes and our, you know, requirements there. So not just kind of the nuts and bolts of how we approve and review development. to that and also we are having a training for the planning commission our next meeting is going to be september 17th and we'll have presentations from dan escobel our planning manager who's going to talk about the development review process as it is now um how you know an application goes from a pre-application meeting through an early neighborhood notification meeting to submittal, being reviewed by our development review team, and then coming before you all for review. So he'll kind of give a high-level overview of that. Then Assistant Attorney Colley will be giving a presentation on Robert's rules, conflicts of interest, and kind of going into... some of the nuts and bolts of how you all do your job and the parameters around that. And then we've also invited Leroy Pacheco, who is a member of our DRT, our development review team, who's our traffic engineer for the city. And he's going to go into our traffic assessments from his perspective. i think the plan is you know going forward and we've done this in the past especially when we have new counselors on is to invite members of our drt whether that's from our water division public works parks you know the metropolitan planning organization to come and you know affordable housing and talk to the planning commission about you know any updates current you know uh requirements for development that sort of thing so we're we'll be setting that in in course over the next several months um hopefully we'll have you know another new planning commissioner joining us as well these um you know, these trainings and recordings, like all of our meetings will be recorded, you know, so we'll have, you know, that reference to go on to. And if there's any other specific requests for trainings, you know, I'm happy to, you know, have you all reach out and we can set something up to do that. So that's kind of all I have right now. Yeah.

I'll also add that for my training on the procedures that govern the Planning Commission, if anyone has specific topics you'd like me to cover, please don't hesitate to reach out to me.

I know that I talked with Natalie about doing a more detailed presentation in the future, but shortly, to talk about planning commission discretion in different areas, such as UPDs, just regular applications before us and zoning, et cetera, just so that, because I think I find that to be a confusing area. So I think it'd be really good if we deep dive into that and just try to figure out how much discretion do we really have in terms of not violating property rights, essentially.

So, yes. I'm sure you said UPDs. Can you tell me what UPDs are?

Did you mean PUDs? I meant PUDs.

Okay. I said there's a new term. No, it's a spaceship. Thank you. I was just confused for a second. Thank you so much.

And like special use permits. Because I do think there's different criterias for PUDs, special use permits, variances to some extent, and then just regular rezonings or development plans. So I think it would be really good if we had sort of a deep dive into each of those and talk about what the standard is to deviate or to say no. I think essentially to say yes or to say no.

chair yes commissioner smith we have had uh planning commission subcommittees on the general plan and the code will they continue and will that uh because i'm it's been sort of sporadic and i know that but we're entering pretty intense time so i would like to make sure that we know who's on which committee and how we relate to each other committee to committee and how the committees relate. Do we have a discussion about that on the 17th?

I think we can have a discussion about it right now in terms of everybody's still on the same committees. And Commissioner Rivera and Commissioner Gutierrez need to be on one of each of the committees because we dropped one from each committee. I know I talked to Commissioner Gutierrez to think about what he would rather be on the rules, which is more detailed, or the general plan, which is for bigger thinkers.

Bigger thinkers, that crosses me out, so probably the update.

I'm on the code, too. The bigger thinkers... OK, so Commissioner Rivera will be on the general plan. We have a meeting tomorrow from 3 to 5. I don't know if you can attend here in the planning commission room. We? We, the code committee.

OK. Thank you for that.

Oh, go ahead. So just a few questions. Miss Moore on the cat, how many members are you anticipating?

We are anticipating at least 10, 12, 15. Not a big crowd. You don't want too many cooks.

Yeah, I was at a PTC meeting with Gormley the other day and they couldn't figure out one bylaw. It took two and a half hours. So just the bigger it gets, every mind's its own island. And just that's why I was asking. Great question.

I think, you know, we'll see who applies. We have on some of these committees appointed like alternatives as well, because sometimes people, you know, they sign up. And this is a big commitment. You know, we're going to be working on this forever. Over a year, maybe two years, who knows how long. So we want, you know, we want to have that enough where we know some people might fall out, but enough diversity of perspectives and backgrounds and, you know, opinions to make it really, you know, a valuable resource for us.

Perfect. And then moving on. If there's any media that you can send Commissioner Rivera and myself that might bring us up to speed, not on what's been passed in the first code update, but what's been recorded or gone forward with this second code update or the general plan, is that those findings of facts you send us make life easy for us to just click and kind of put our AirPods on and go to town. So if there's anything you can send to either of us, that would be much appreciated.

What about that big gigantic?

Send me an audio book. Just food for thought. And then you were saying about specifics. Ms. Cully variances. We had one attorney that was black and white.

We had one that was kind of

And so I'd like to get your take on variances and how you really interpret it as far as where we can go through and do things. Because I think sometimes variances can be in a gray area.

Commissioner Gutierrez, I would be happy to cover that. I think that will be best left for the future discussion about Chapter 14, where we'll talk about more the substance that the commission is applying. On September 17th, I'm hoping to focus on the procedures, because that will, standing alone, will be a very large presentation. So more the Roberts Rules, the Open Meetings Act, those sorts of things. But I will certainly focus on variances at the future presentations.

Okay, and if the chair would indulge us just sometime before we actually see a variance that might be contentious or something of that nature, right? So if we don't have variances coming up for months and months and months, then so be it. But if we see one coming, just so we can get an update on that. And then lastly is another issue that I would like to see at some point. I always found water very interesting and where the city provides water and where they have to get water rights and how they calculate. We had a real good in-depth training years ago about what's calculated for a restaurant or a multifamily complex. So I would like to get refreshed on that at some point. Thank you.

Yeah, that'd be good. Maggie, could you also explain how we're going to be working with Historic? Or maybe not, it might not be known at this point in time, but just what the issues are.

Thank you, Chair Clout. That's a great question. Yeah, and we, well, I think the goal is, and some lessons from phase one of the code update are that we want to have more integration with the Planning Commission and the Historic Review Board. The Historic Board is a subcommittee of the Planning Commission, and we want to bring the two subcommittees together. Obviously, there's very clear separation within their area of expertise and their area of authority. But we want to also allow for, you know, influence and collaboration between the two bodies so likely they will have a subcommittee, you know, stand up with the historic board and you all have your subcommittee for the code. And then our vision is that occasionally, not every time you meet, but occasionally you will have a joint meeting of those subcommittees to, you know, share progress, you know, share information. And, you know, that would be the main mechanism for, you know, moving forward so that when. you know, the whole, all the kind of pieces come forward, you know, the planning commission is informed about the work of the historic preservation, you know, committee and vice versa, that there's, you know, just a little bit more collaboration and cross contamination between the two bodies. because we have to vote on that also you do yeah you have to you know ultimately the the path for you know code updates is a very long path to you know from um the archaeological review committee has pieces of the code that it um will you know review and recommend if there's changes there the historic board has their pieces that they will review and recommend And then ultimately, the Planning Commission oversees the entirety of Chapter 14 to make those recommendations to the governing body. So it'll help integrate that work we're anticipating. If you have any thoughts or feedback on how that might be improved, we'd be happy to hear from you.

Yeah, and I think it's a lot for us to learn because we don't address those portions of the code at all.

I mean, yeah, thank you, Chair Clout. And we, you know, just some updates on Historic Preservation Division in general. We've hired three new staff, a senior planner, a planner, and a planner tech in the last two months. And we're in the process of hiring a new manager for the division as well. That's not finalized yet. So I can't, you know, say who that person is. But hopefully, maybe by your October meeting, we'll be able to give you more information on that. So Having, you know, a full and talented staff in that division is really going to help, you know, move the, you know, that process forward as well.

Any other staff communications? I think Commissioner McGee has one.

I can also wait to marriage from the commission if you'd like. Great i'm curious if we know the next meeting for the general plan subcommittee.

I have not yet scheduled that I will sorry I will take a look. Preferably. It's going to probably work for me probably towards the end of the month. That's just how my schedule is looking right now so that we can provide good content.

And then did we maintain that closing date for the phase that we were in at the time?

We extended it to, I think it was the 17th or 16th.

August?

Yes.

Okay.

So that's how long it did get extended.

It is officially closed.

It is officially closed, but we did extend it the two weeks.

Do you know, was our consultant able to make any of the updates that were recommended?

Yes. For example, they did change the equity priority areas. They did expand that where it was just in Agua Fria. They expanded it to Airport Road. They also included the Hopewell Man area. And then we did for the I'm blanking on the exact scenario planning framework, but it had to do with Tierra Contenta, and we expanded that to airport rodeo. That was one specific change. And then also added the timelines up at the top of the page so folks knew exactly what happened before and what's expected to happen in the future.

Gotcha. And then one last unrelated question. Director Lamboy mentioned a housing summit. Are you all aware and do you know when it's going to happen yet? I just want to put it on my calendar.

Yes, yeah, Chair Clough and Commissioner McGee, thank you. So I believe it's the end of October is what I heard her say. And I'm sorry, I just heard that today in that meeting and I didn't write it down. But yeah, we'll make sure you are all aware of that. I understand there's a few kind of housing events that are coming, you know, obviously. And what we hear from, you know, everything we've heard in the general plan is housing, housing, housing, right? I mean, so that's what people... are concerned about um back to the just so so that is i can get the final date for you um soon um but also with regards to the general plan um we will have we're having a presentation next week on the 9th and to the governing body it's like a little bit of an update so if you guys want to tune into that or you know, watch that. But that's part of our process is bringing, you know, the comments and information that we've gathered to them and giving them an opportunity to, you know, review and talk about that.

Yes. If you have a formal report for the governing body, could we, or an outline or a deck, could you circulate that after the meeting as well?

Yes, I can. Mm-hmm.

Thank you. Commissioner Smith?

This is probably getting ahead of ourselves a little bit. One of the things you hear all the time, and I'm wondering how it applies to the Title 14 work, which is not where I'll be buried, because I don't think of it as big ideas. I never met a detail I liked. But will there be attention paid? through the process by which code is enforced and followed in terms of creating a more collaborative interplay amongst the different agencies in the city government. Because what you hear all the time is people don't talk to each other in a way. And it's inefficient and expensive and frustrating and takes time. So is there going to be attention paid to the how the code is administered and honored?

That's a great question.

Yeah, Chair Clough and Commissioner Smith. So, yes.

And I think the governing body is also keenly, you know, kind of paying attention to this, too. There is, my understanding, on next week, Tuesday, they're doing a governing body study session on enforcement. This has been, you know, a long-standing... question around you know how do we do enforcement as the city and who's in charge of what i mean so that that's we're going to be um you know presenting obviously in the land use department we have many facets of enforcement um that we you know we have our code enforcement team who deals with business licensing and inspecting businesses and licensing and permitting short-term rentals. And they also deal with nuisance properties and weeds and things of that nature on private property. The Land Use Department, we also are inspecting buildings, unpermitted construction. Those sorts of enforcement actions are taking place. signage you know we also do all the historic preservation enforcement right tons of you know stop work orders and investigations around unauthorized work in the historic districts so there's you know we come at it from many different perspectives and that's just within our department um so enforcement is really kind of at the heart of what we do as far as you know criminal enforcement of what the police do you know we we do coordinate you know with the police department as needed we coordinate with constituent services they are a big um they're kind of the first point of contact for a lot of, from a complaint-based enforcement strategy where we receive complaints from, you know, from constituent services. We coordinate, you know, with, what else am I thinking, with fire. You know, obviously we work really closely with fire. So I'm interested, I'm not going to be able to attend the enforcement study session, but I'm really interested to see you know what is the you know mood of the council and where they are you know headed but um you know we we do obviously a lot of enforcement but there's so many aspects of enforcement around the city so i'm interested to see how they you know want to view that from the city-wide maybe a lot of dimensions to this

The one I'm interested in is the recurring story that there is an organizational culture in the city government across it when it comes to permitting processes. And that's one of the reasons it takes as long as it does. And if we're going to see general planning code changes that want to refine that and make it more effective and efficient, I want to make sure that we have looked at the how as well as the what. Because culture eats change all day long, the organizational culture. And so I just want us to pay some attention to that from the perspectives that we have an interest Our responsibility.

Chair Clow.

Yes.

I have a question. I want to clarify that Commissioner Rivera is on the general plan subcommittee. Okay. And Commissioner Gutierrez is on the land development code subcommittee and we're meeting tomorrow.

Yes. Okay. All right. Also, I talked to Commissioner Gutierrez about serving as secretary, taking over for Commissioner Morando. And when I was on the commission, Commissioner Gutierrez was the chair of the commission, and I was the secretary. Now we're switching. So thank you for agreeing to take that position. He was afraid he had to do minutes. Yeah, that would be a nightmare. So anything else from the, yes, Commissioner Wieland?

Thank you chair, this is for staff so we're having trouble finding clarity on whether or not a variance and or a special use permit will actually transfer with the property. There's nothing that specifically states that. And maybe I missed something.

Good question. Yeah, Chair Clough and Commissioner Whelan. So let's take an example of, yeah, like a conditional or special use permit.

I'll give you one right now.

Okay.

It's cash store.

Who's that?

Johnny's Cash Store on Camino Center.

Johnny's Cash Store. And they have a special use permit.

They have a special use permit. They were a local store for well before I was born.

Right. So they're probably grandfathered. They're probably grandfathered in, I would assume. Have they been closed?

No, it hasn't closed. It's been confusing in trying to find clarity on whether or not there's anything stated in the code or within the city charter that says that when the property transfers, any special use permit and or variance will transfer with the property itself.

Well, yeah, no, I would say, you know, for the special use permit, it doesn't, it's not tied to ownership. It's tied to use. So, you know, if we give Johnny's Cash Store a special use permit to operate as a little shop, right, and in a residential zone or something like that, whatever it is. That is with the property. As long as that use is maintained, then the special use permit is maintained and people can sell. We don't involve ourselves in the sale of property, generally. The only thing that I know in the code specifically that is not transferable, we call out, is a short-term rental permit. you cannot transfer that with the sale of a property it lives with the owner of the property it is given to the owner of the property um and then it it goes with a sale of that property and the new owner has to apply so the the one condition with the conditional use permit is if if they cease operation for i think now it's 180 days We changed it in phase one of the code update. It used to be a year, I think. And so if that ceases operating as the use, then the special use permit goes away. Okay.

Yeah. That also applies to uses that are grandfathered in also.

Yeah. If the use somehow ceases, then... the protection is gone. But it's, yeah, non-conforming use is a little bit different. But then with the variance as well, that isn't given to an individual. That is given to a property or a structure. And so, and generally, you know, for a very specific, you know, we don't give variances to uses. So, you can't get a variance to a use you can get a variance to a height to a setback to um lot coverage you know some kind of a dimensional standard generally but not a use yeah um so that's does that help answer the question yeah it does the 180 days actually clears setups very specifically so that might be good

I will just clarify for the commission that if the UC is during 2025 before the passage of the new code update, then the 365 days still applies. We ran into this with a business recently. But if they seize their operations in 2026, then 180 days applies.

Yeah, I want to say operations probably seized in 2022. Yes. OK. Thank you for the clarity.

Any other questions or comments?

If not, yes. This is for Assistant Attorney. As you're preparing for the presentation on Robert's Rules of Order, recently we had an experience that I think surprised a lot of folks where a vote of abstention went to the majority. And I think it would be helpful to get clarity into what situations does that happen? Is it based on certain circumstances? types of cases? Is it based on appeals only? And where else might we run into that that might vary a little bit from standard Robert rules?

Yeah, I would be happy to cover that. For the commission's awareness, that rule comes from the governing body procedural rules. So I will also touch on that in my presentation.

We've never had that happen that I know of. and it